The Sewol Ferry Disaster

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“- Well, welcome to Stuff You Should Know.”

A production of Eye-Heart Radio. - Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and those Chuck and Jerry's here too. And this is Stuff You Should Know. Part of our ongoing marine disaster sweet, I guess.

- Yeah, glad we took a break. It's good to be back. - Yeah. - It's very sad. I mean, just sort of devastating topic today.

As they usually are, this and especially sad, I think, that it's more recent and involved kids. But yeah, we were on a run there for a while and we took a break and now we're back with more of maritime disaster.

- Yeah, in the Arangmadan short stuff, you're like, this is it for a while, man. - I think I did, I had to say, we slowly stopped with these. - Yeah, so yeah, the Sioux All disasters,

what we're talking about, Sioux All was the name of a fairy that went between the Southern tip of South Korea and Jay-Jew, kind of a tropical island resort or resort island off of Korea. And in 2014 on April 16th actually,

we're releasing this on the 12th anniversary of this tragedy. 304 people died, including 250 11th grade high school students who were on a class field trip. - Yeah, 11 of their teachers, very sadly, one of the teachers who survived took his life two days

after this disaster with a case of survivors guilt. - Yeah. - And it was the thing that really burns me up about this one is it wasn't an iceberg or a bad storm. It was all sort of human caused.

And even once this thing started listing and tilting to the side, there was still plenty of time to rescue everyone and it just didn't happen. - Right, it's like Oprah should walk up and be like, "You're to blame, you're to blame."

And you're to blame, like everyone was to blame except for the people who died, essentially. It was just totally senseless. There was no need for it, like it could have been totally avoided. And this had such an enormous impact on South Korean society.

They call it 416 because it happened on April 16th, much the same way we call September 11th, 9/11 in the United States. And there was a public survey that was done. I think by Pew, that said, like,

what are the most important historical events

in the history of Korea? And the stool disaster was a close second behind the Korean war.

“- Yeah, that's how important and how huge of a sweeping impact”

this had on the entire society. - You know what, Emily's dad calls 9/11. - What? - 9/11. - For real?

- Yeah. - Is he being facetious? - No, that's just how right. - Right, so how Rick rolls. He's got his own language.

- I'm not sure.

“- All right, that's probably the last joke I'll tell”

who wanted to go ahead and get one in there. - Okay, thank you. So let's start the story here. Don Juan High School is, that's DANWO and not Don Juan, like Don Juan.

- Sure. - Demarco. It is a public school, it's about an hour and a half outside of Seoul, it's in a city called Anson. And this is, like you mentioned, a class trip.

This is a sort of an annual tradition where the 11th graders go on this trip to this gorgeous island, which is also a UNESCO heritage site. And I think we're gonna be doing an episode on that pretty soon, right?

UNESCO? - Mm-hmm. - Yep, for sure. - And the whole idea is that they go before they have to sort of buckle down and get ready for their version

of their, the SAT, the CSAT, which is what they have in Korea. So they go for this great trip every year, sort of a last chorob before they start their senior year.

“And that's what they set off for on the night of April 15th, 2014.”

- Yeah, also we need to do at least the short stuff on the CSAT, they call it the Sun Young, which is, it makes the SAT look like a walk in the park. - Yeah, really. - It's insane, I saw one question from it.

It was like, I don't know, anyone who could answer this question. - Oh, wow, okay. - Yeah, it'll be an interesting one. So they embarked for J.J. from Inchon, like I was saying,

and it was gonna be an overnight journey. And I think it's a 13 hour fairy trip to J.J.J.J.J. And there was a really heavy fog. So much so that the teachers on the trip considered like just cancelling it was just,

it just seemed that dangerous.

And finally, everyone agreed including the crew of the Siwal

and the teachers that, let's just go ahead, two and a half hours later, they finally set sail. But they were the only commercial vessel to leave port that night because that fog was so bad. - Yeah, and as you'll see that was, I guess we'll go ahead

and list that as number one of ways that this disaster could have been averted aid, these kids not going at all. But be they, you know, they're trying to go faster because they got a later start and that seems like it affected the disaster.

- Yeah, for sure. The Siwal had also been around for 20 years. It had served 20 years as a Japanese fairy off Okinawa called the Namonui, which is a Shinto shrine in Okinawa that looks over the sea and gives blessings

for safe trips to the ships going in and out of port. And the fairy, which was the Namonui, was purchased in Recris and the Siwal by Changhai Jin Marine which is the company that owned the fairy. And two things, to increase profits,

they expanded passenger decks to add basically

two more passenger decks. They expanded the cargo area and they essentially made this ship ripe for overloading. - Yeah. - That's number one.

Number two, the Korean government had recently extended the life of fairy ships from 20 years to 30. The reason it got retired in Okinawa is because it's just sensible, though only let them go for 20 years.

In Korea, South Korea, you could run them for 30 years which is why Changhai Jin Marine bought that ship and put it into service. - Yeah, I bet they got a pretty good deal on it at that age, you know? - Yeah, I'm sure the Okinawan's were like,

"You sure you want this?" - Yeah. - And they were like, yeah. - So they were 476 total passengers on board. But there was also, like you said,

“it was ripe for overloading and that's what they did.”

They had more than 2,100 tons of freight on board. They were construction materials. There were cars and trucks. When you see video from sort of inside this thing while it was pitching and tilting,

you see huge work trucks like being slammed against the wall and into other cars and things like that. In the end, it was about 1,000 tons over what its maximum capacity was supposed to be. - So about almost 50% over maximum capacity.

That's insane and we'll explain how they got away with that eventually. So like you said, they were trying to make up for lost time, so they sailed faster than they normally would have to make it to Jeju. On their scheduled time,

remember they left two and a half hours late.

The third mate was on the bridge in charge

earlier that morning. - Yeah. - It's not entirely inappropriate. This was like open sea. It should have been basically nothing stretch.

But the point is that the captain, the first mate, and the second mate were not on the bridge. The third mate was in charge. And the third mate ordered the quartermaster at about 8.45 a.m. to make a sudden turn.

And when the ship made the turn, it turned really hard.

And there was a horrible crashing sign and all of a sudden it tilted, it listed in the water. I think something like 20 degrees to start. - Yeah, so that's a bad start. It did not write itself because what had happened was,

a lot of that stuff down there wasn't secured like it should have been. And when I said trucks went slamming against the walls

“and into other cars, that's what happened.”

All this heavy stuff shifted in such a way that it would not shift back. - Right, exactly. So not only was it not going to write itself, it was going to just keep listing and listing

and listing and that's exactly what happened. There is a short documentary. I saw it was produced by Laura Poitris,

which that's quality stuff.

- Yeah. - She did the essentially the film for the snowed in files and citizen for the documentary. Anyway, you can find it on YouTube. I think New Yorker bought it.

It's called In the Absence. And it is this almost in real time, like 20 plus minute documentary that shows the ship sinking and then against it puts the conversations between all the people

who are supposed to be rescuing this and doing something about this and just puts on full display and incompetence, the indifference, the arrogance, the negligence, all of the answers,

all the bad answers, like are just on full display. It's so shocking to hear this and see it and know what happened and know who's inside there and then to hear what they actually did or didn't do to rescue them.

- Yeah, like tied to the minute. So you'll see, you know, toward the end of this documentary, it's a hard watch, but it's well worth checking out. You'll see like 95% of this boat is underwater and sunk with all these people on board

and you'll hear in real time, like at that exact moment in time, you know, the Coast Guard saying like, "You think we can land a helicopter on this thing now "and try and get some of these people out

“"and other people that are there, like I think”

"I don't think we can land a helicopter on it anymore "and it's like it's gone."

Basically at that point, it's just, it's infuriating to watch, you know.

- Yeah, even after that, the guy who's like, "Oh, that's a shame that we can't land the helicopter, "that would look really good for those cameras." - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - It's just disgusting, right?

So the kids on board, they all had smartphones. This is 2014 in South Korea, every single one of them had a smartphone, and there are a lot of surviving documents and texts from the kids on board. So we know a lot of what happened in the first like,

I think all the way up for like almost an hour and a half after the ship listed what was going on. And at first, the kids were fairly calm, 20 degree list is substantial, but it's not panic time necessarily for everybody.

It feels like people are still in charge, things are okay, but there's conversations between the kids that are like, is this one of those things where the only people who survive are the ones who don't follow orders, you know, like, and they're joking about how the ship is sinking

and all that, and little that they know that within an hour, they would all be dead, essentially from the ship actually sinking in from just the terrible guidance or lack of guidance from the people who were in charge. - Yeah, well, the guidance was, stay where you are,

put on your life as and stay in your cabin. There was silence for a little while, and then when, you know, they came over the loudspeaker,

“they repeatedly, I think seven different times,”

as this thing was sinking, they were like, stay in your cabins, stay in your cabins and remain calm, parents were calling, or students were calling their parents from their phones, there was that brutal interview with a one parent, it was a couple, but the mom was like,

her one regret was she didn't say, like, stop following their instructions, get out while you can. But as, you know, I just hated that because as a parent, you aren't there, you don't know what's exactly happening,

although it was played out in real time on the news. So you think that the people that are supposed to be doing the right thing are doing the right thing. So you want to tell your kid, like, hey, listen to what they're telling you,

and not like, hey, don't listen to what they're saying, get out of there. - Yeah, go jump off the side of the ship. - Yeah. - You know, yeah, that's, you can totally understand

where she's coming from, but I can also understand that that's her greatest regret. - Yeah, I just hated it for her to, you know, all these years later, to still feel that way, you know? - Yeah, so 8.55 am, 10 minutes after the ship turned

and started to list,

Three minutes earlier, the very first distress call

“from the Siwal was made by one of the students.”

- Yeah. - They called 119, which is 911 in Korea, and they said, like, hey, I'm on a sinking ship, please send some help. And at first, you could tell the 119 operators, like,

wait, what are you saying? - Yeah, yeah. - Because they were essentially like, so wait, you're on a ship, and you're seeing a ship that's sinking,

and I was like, no, I'm on a sinking ship, like, please send help. This was three minutes before the crew ever did anything, like, did anything about this. - Yeah, so they were ahead by three minutes,

over the next half hour, there were a lot of calls from the crew to all kinds of people. Coast Guard support, obviously, they called, the crew was like, hey, we're trapped on the bridge. We don't know what's going on with the passengers.

The ship is definitely sinking, so there was no ambiguity about what was going on, and they said, to the Coast Guard, like, should we evacuate? And they said, hey, it's a captain's decision,

“that's why you have a captain on board, basically.”

And that was over the next half hour from those initial calls. In the middle of this, at nine, 14, they made the crew made distress calls to local fishing boats, like, hey,

anybody that's near us, we need help right now, and a lot of them showed up. - Yeah, I think there was some that had already showed up, even before the call, and half of the people who were rescued, who survived the sinking of the Sioux Al Ferry,

were rescued by civilian fishing boats in 10 minutes, a 10 minute span, half of the survivors were rescued. This was 20, 30, I saw as much as 40 minutes, although I don't think that's right, before the Coast Guard even showed up,

those fishing boats were there rescuing people.

The first Coast Guard boat,

and I think the only Coast Guard boat, bear that in mind, showed up at nine, 35. So this is 50 minutes after the first turn, and what 40 minutes after the call for help, the Coast Guard finally shows up.

The ship is at 60 degrees now. - Yeah. - This is not, you're like standing on the wall, essentially. And the Coast Guard did what the Coast Guard is supposed to do, the crew did what they were supposed to do.

The Coast Guard evacuated the crew from the bridge and got away from the ship, the crew left the ship, including the captain who, there's a very clear image of him being assisted, off of the bridge and onto the Coast Guard boat,

who had not, very importantly, given the order to evacuate the ship. He abandoned ship and did not explain to the passengers that they needed to get off of the ship.

“- Yeah, it's the worst thing about captain can do.”

There's supposed to be the last person off,

and this guy was one of the first people off,

and is underwear. - Yeah. - This, you know, you said the crew all got off. It wasn't everybody. I think there were 14 crew members

that were rescued at 947 AM, a few crew members to their credit, went down with the ship and we're doing everything they could. So they were, you know, there were some heroic actions going on. A helicopter shows up around this time,

starts to rescue passengers, but again, a helicopter rescue, they're getting people off like one at a time, lifting them to safety, and these kids are still being told to stay in their room. So it's not like everyone was on top of the deck,

or you know, wherever they could be seen, most of them are still in their room, and then they had life rafts. They had life rafts for like 1100 people. There were 44 life rafts to carry 25 people each,

and only one of them was automatically deployed. - Right, so there was a point where the water is starting to rush in so much that even somebody who's been raised their entire life in a collective society to just follow, you know,

the orders of the people in charge are going to leave their cabin. Are going to stop listening and leave their cabin. That finally happened of, by this time, it was much too late for most of them. It's very, very hard to get out of a sinking ship

because the water rushes into every area that has air to fill it up. There's a suction mechanism that can create, though the movement of the water makes it less dense, so you are likely able to sink.

It's very hard to get out of the inside of a sinking large ship, and so there were stories of some of the survivors seeing their friends like trying to get out and then see them just get sucked back into the ship in the water, and that was it.

So the Sioux al within, just a couple hours, Chuck. It went from completely above water to totally submerged,

trapped inside when it sank.

- Yeah, and that single Coast Guard boat, rescue boat that was there. It sat there and watched the whole thing happen. In fact, worse than that, those fishermen and the fishing boats that were there pulling passengers out,

the Coast Guard ordered them to retreat and to get out of there of those 476.

“I think you said three hundred and four were trapped inside.”

Only three of those were crew members, and they were young crew members who stayed aboard to try and help. - Yeah, one of two of them were engaged, couple. - Yeah.

All right, we're getting pretty worked up in upset, so maybe we should take a break, and come back after this with more on the disaster. - Okay, we will do that. (upbeat music)

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(dramatic music) - I think you said earlier, Chuck, we're back by the way, that the sinking was broadcast on TV, essentially, all of the news just covered it constantly, the entire day,

and then some, and there was a lot of misinformation that was coming out. You can actually hear where it began, like early on, with the ship almost fully capsized, and mostly sunk, one of the Coast Guard guys

says, yeah, everybody's safe, they're all evacuated.

essentially had hope and assurance that their kids were safe,

“they were alive as the ship was sinking,”

and very quickly it turned, they learned that no, this is not the case, a substantial number, 250 of them were now dead. Or now maybe even not dead, but trapped at the bottom of the yellow sea in a boat, and we're going to die.

- Yeah, 75 of the students made it through. So the families almost immediately were like, we need to hold someone accountable, we need some answers for what happened out there,

and they never really got answers, so when that happened,

they really went hard into raising good trouble, becoming activist, basically, they had candlelight visuals, they drew together thousands of people at these things. They camped outside of the President's residence, which is the Blue House in South Korea.

A lot of them shade their heads for publicity, they went on hunger strikes, they were going to marches and speaking at rallies, and because of this, and this thing just seems like it keeps getting worse and worse and worse and worse.

- It does. - South Korea didn't say like, yeah,

“we need to really get to the bottom of this,”

all these parents are devastated, they lost their children, so let's get to the bottom of it. Instead, these right wing websites started putting out

and commentators start putting out stories

about kind of what happened in Newtown Connecticut, like putting out stories about the families, like accusing them of being North Korean agents, trying to get rich off this tragedy. Not only that, the official government started trailing

some of them, started staking out their houses, started tapping phones, trying to dig up dirt to use against these parents of children who were killed by negligence. - They went to great lengths and spent a lot of money

and effort to deflect the focus attention and blame from itself, the government, and describe the parents. - On to whoever, yes, on the parents, the most cynical evil thing you could possibly do is a government in a situation like this

when you're largely to blame. And so these families didn't stop as they were vilified and there was like a huge cleaving between the formerly fully sympathetic and on their side public and these families,

because now all of a sudden it's like, well wait a minute, are they trying to get rich? And the media was fully culpable in this. They were instrumentalized, I've seen it described, by the government, went along fully.

And so whatever the government wanted them to say, they would just have some prosecutors, have some journalists saying, out on the record, feed them a bunch of stuff. And then the next thing, that would be the new new cycle.

So the government was really able to deliberately manage all of this tragedy. And one of the things they did was scapegoat the families or get them ostracized at least. And the families did not,

this didn't shut them up at all. If anything, it created even more activists and keep in the activists activism in the ones that were already kind of radicalized by this. And so over time it became clear

that there was a bunch of people to blame and the parents were not in any of the categories.

And no, there's basically kind of five buckets of people who failed

here, obviously, the captain in the crew, except for the three that stayed behind, who were commendable, obviously. But like we said, they didn't evacuate anybody. No announcements to evacuate.

Everyone's told to stay there while this thing sank. And the other thing too, was not having that cargo security. You shouldn't have cars and trucks sliding around and construction and equipment sliding around when you make a sharp turn.

And making that sharp turn was also a big error. - The Coast Guard also was very, I don't think they were ever off the hook. They were blamed from the moment the whole thing happened to today.

- Yeah. - They did not do almost anything. It's just astounding the little that they did.

“- That's why I don't get like, why, why?”

- I don't know why, but I do know that as a direct result of this, the Coast Guard, the North Korean Coast Guard was dissolved. Everybody got removed, like, sorry, there's no Coast Guard anymore.

We have to figure out a different way to do this. That's how incompetent and negligent their response was, that the Coast Guard was disbanded because... - Yeah. - Yeah.

- So I don't know why, but that was the result. That's how bad it was. - Well, and I think that's one of the more magnetizing things is, even when they've done follow

well, there was a communication breakdown here

and it would happen because of this. It was, and when you're listening to the comms in real time, it's just, it's infuriating. - Oh, it was like anybody who had a finger pointed at them, the, what they did was just turn their pointed

at the next person. - Yeah. - There was no, like, accountability. - Accountability, you know, no accountability will put. - The ferry company was another bucket, obviously,

“their profits were more important than the safety”

of their passengers. It was overloaded like we said. Apparently their emergency training was at very robust and the workers that they hired were apparently low paid contract workers that didn't have a lot

of experience. - Right, so the ferry company's cutting every corner, they can't maximize profit and putting profit ahead of passenger safety by a lot. - Right.

- The port inspectors too. They didn't do their job. They did their job by looking at what's called freeboard, which is the distance between the ship, I guess the main deck and the water,

and they basically just eyeballed it and said,

"Oh, it's not sitting too low in the water, so I guess it passes inspection." From what I understand, they did not go aboard the ship and actually like visually see any of the cargo, that was the inspection they did for a passenger ferry.

“And it gets even worse because you might say like,”

"Okay, well, I mean, it wasn't too low in the water "who cares if it was overloaded." The reason it wasn't too far or too deep into the water was because the ferry company had scuttled ballast to use that weight for more cargo

and not only did that, was it just highly illegal, but the lack of ballast made the ship less sea worthy. - Yeah, it made a very unstable. So something like a hard turn and all of a sudden you're going down, you know?

Isn't that insane? - Yeah, it's crazy. The South Korean government is the fifth bucket because as you'll see here coming up in the next section, they had a terrible response to everything after it happened.

There were about, I guess it's been about 12 years since this happened, like you said, I guess it's gonna be on the anniversary that this is released, but there've been nine different government investigations in inquiries and we'll go over the litany of arrest.

I mean, that's the only sort of, I mean, you don't want to call it a good thing, but at least they, a lot of people served time for this, you know? - Yeah, they definitely did. One of them was the captain.

His name is Lee Jun Siak, and he was put on trial for a negligent homicide. His defense was that he was stunned and confused by the accident, and he wasn't able to make decisions because he was so stunned and confused.

That was his defense. - That's not Captain. That's not what you want to hear out of a captain. - No, for sure. I guess he also gave conflicting testimony.

In one, he lied and said that, oh, he did give the order to evacuate, but his crew didn't listen. I think he even lied and said that he used the bullhorn to tell everyone to evacuate. He definitely did not do any of those.

- Yeah, later he gave us somewhat more rational and sensible explanation. He said that essentially there's very strong currents in this area, that's true. The water is very cold, it was like 57 degrees Fahrenheit

“or I think 17 degrees Celsius, I don't remember.”

Pretty cold, and then also he didn't want people jumping in the water before there was anyone around to rescue them, right? All of that makes a little bit of sense, but none of it justifies or excuses or explains

never giving the evacuation order.

A bandening ship while it was still fully loaded with passengers, like there's no way to defend his actions, even if some of his thinking was potentially reasonable. - Yeah, he said that he didn't know he claimed to not know the status of the passengers when he abandoned ship,

which in admission, you know, in and of itself is awful. And he went to trial, of course, we're gonna talk about it, you know, a lot of the trials here at the end, but his trial was the most sort of, 'cause, you know, it was on TV, the captain,

you know, coming out in his underwear and getting on that, it was just laid bare, like, you know, in all ways, for everyone to see with their own eyeballs. So that was the trial that was really sort of the most striking publicly, I think.

And he was sent it's the 36 years in prison, the 14 members of the crew, the 14 that evacuated, they got sentenced as well from five to 30 years, but they appealed the verdict, and made it worse. He eventually got a life sentence out of this,

and some of the crew members had their senses dialed back a little bit, because they were acting on captain's orders. - Right, a lot of the families were like, let's give them the death penalty, even though South Korea hadn't used the death penalty since 1997,

for the death penalty. - So early on, Chuck, really early on, is the government's just doing anything

“it can to deflect blame or responsibility.”

They zeroed in on one of the owners of Chonghejin Marine, which owned the ferry. He was a billionaire named Yubyeong-Yun. He was 73, his family was the co-owner of the company, and also a bunch of other companies.

And the government did the same thing that it later did with the families.

It basically started feeding secretly,

info to the media, and the media turned around, and reported on it. And all of a sudden, I saw this graph of day by day, news reports on the seawall ferry syncing. They start to go down as the reports on Yubyeong-Yun

go up until there's nothing almost on the syncing, and everything on this billionaire who's now fled and is on the run. - Yeah, so he goes on the lamb. He's a very well-known guy in South Korea at the time,

even before this, mainly because, well,

“I mean, he was a billionaire businessman, so that's one,”

but more so for being the founder of the evangelical Baptist church in Korea. So he's someone that's well-known, they issue an arrest warrant about a month later. He had fled by this point.

There's a nationwide man hunt. And for many, many months, what we learned after the fact was he was hiding in a panic room at his vacation house. And then that summer in July, they found him in the woods

basically, he was in a plum orchard, had killed himself.

His body was badly decomposed at that point, so he, you know, most cowardly thing he could do. He fled, hid, and then took his own life to avoid responsibility. - Yeah, there's something, I mean,

even though he was very much made a scapegoat by the government, that doesn't mean he was innocent or not responsible. He wasn't the only one responsible. And then one other thing that makes this whole government

thing even more cynical, they found his body a full month before they publicly acknowledged it. Because he was just such a great way to distract the public from the actual problem, the tragedy. And when they finally did release that they had found him

and the manhunt was over, it was because there was a really unpopular bill that would allow hospitals to make more profits over a patient care that was making the news, so they bumped that out of the way with the news that this guy's body had been found.

- Yeah, should we take our final break? - I think that's a good idea. - All right, we're going to take another break and talk a little bit more about the fallout right after this.

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- From I-Heart Podcasts, and best case studios. This is Worshack, murder at City Hall. - Could this have happened in City Hall? Somebody tell me that. - July 2003, Councilman James E. Davis

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We have not talked yet about the South Korean government. You know, like we said, this thing was on TV for everyone to kind of see. The one thing they didn't see was their president. Park, Gune, he was nowhere.

She didn't emerge. There was about a seven hour period where she didn't come out of a residence to address anything going on.

When she finally did come out,

she didn't seem like she was even briefed on what was going on. She was getting a lot of the basic facts of the disaster wrong. She didn't understand that there were students

trapped inside the boat. It was just, it was a real mess from the beginning and they still don't know.

“I believe they sealed the national security documents”

that have, you know, what she was doing during those seven hours. They sealed those documents for at least 30 years. So no one's ever gonna know what the president of that country was doing for those seven hours. - Now, the one thing that an investigation turned up

that she definitely was doing was the two hours before she finally went on TV to talk about this crisis. - She was getting her hair done. - That's right, I remember hearing that. - Hours before that, like sealed.

It's the most suspicious thing I've ever heard in my life. - Yeah, it's so fishy and them sealing it for 30 years just like put the official fishy stamp on it all. - Yeah, I mean, it's bad enough if there's just keeping it quiet,

but to seal it for 30 years, what was she like having sex with Satan himself or something? What was going on? - A little sudden, it's a South Park movie. - Pretty pretty much.

- Oh, come on, Guy. - So obviously the, you know, politics or politics, so the political opposition is gonna just jump on this moment and say, you know, the fan, you know, they're behind the families, of course,

if you're on the other side of the political spectrum. They wanted her to step down, they mounted a big nationwide sort of protest, saying that she needs to get out of here in 2017.

She became the first South Korean president

to be impeached and removed from office and was convicted, but the conviction had nothing to do with this. She was implicated in a bribery scheme, right? But they do credit the C-wall probe and the backlash against her to just sort of kicking off

all of this investigatory stuff that led to that conviction. - Yeah, the Park family, in fact, had it pretty, they were not very good at governing. Not only was she the first president to be removed from office in South Korea history,

her father was a dictator who led a coup and took power until 1979 when he was assassinated. So, not exactly the family you want running your country after all. - Yeah, her prison sentence is 20 years,

but she was pardoned in 2022 by her successor. They said that, you know, she was doing well health-wise and that's, you know, in most normal times, politics-wise a lot of times, even the opposition will like issue a pardon against the person there against, you know?

- Yeah, I think it's kind of one of those, like, we need to keep that custom in order because it takes-- - I think so. - I've got eyes on the office four years from now and I don't want to go to jail.

- What you do? - Yeah, might as well, I mean the same thing.

“So, here's the thing, it's been 12 years”

and it is not clear what caused the sinking

- Well, yeah, no. - Like why it turned, I mean, in that video, I don't know if this was the thing, but when it shows that truck slaming against the wall, something burst and water starts coming in.

- Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, what they don't know is why they made that sharp turn to begin with. - Did I send this to you, I don't, I don't know if you saw it,

but the third main charge when she was tried,

she testified that she ordered the quartermaster to turn the rudder, turn the wheel to avoid an oncoming ship that was coming very seriously. - I didn't see that part. - And like, it's nowhere, like it was,

I found it buried and referenced in some one article, like it's not like a big thing. I don't know why, because it was confirmed by onland radar that there was a trail out right after the ship turned, going the other direction of what seemed to be another ship.

- Okay, so that might have been the reason? - Yes, the reason they turned and then she said, well, the quartermaster turned it way too hard, and again, like you said, these were inexperienced low paid contract workers,

actually doing the ship, so it's quite possible. The quartermaster just turned it too hard. He also said, the quartermaster in his defense said, I didn't turn it that hard, that ship was not made

to even turn five degrees like the third main order to be too.

Like it just kept going and skidding essentially. - Yeah, you know, we mentioned the crew in the captain that got, and the president, that all got prison sentences. The owner of that fairie company had taken his own life,

“but I think it was his son, that was the CEO.”

- Yeah. - He was convicted on accidental homicide charges, but also an investment, investment thing. So he got a seven year term for both of those. There was a shipping official that, you know,

the ones who said, hey, you're fine to go without checking it's cargo. He was sentenced to three years, a couple of workers with a private company that overloaded the ship to begin with. They got two years, the fairie company,

and this one, they ended up getting a pretty good payout. There was a civil, wrongful death civil suit. And in 2018, court ordered the government and the fairie company to pay the families, what would be about $530,000 per victim

and American dollars, which is about $600 million won.

- Right. - But a pay, you know, I mentioned the payout being pretty good just because they deserved it, but nothing, you know, there isn't a financial compensation for something like that, you know.

- No, and to their credit, they are still quite organized and still agitating for answers. We didn't say, but they actually raised the fairie, and then dry doctor, it's pretty astounding that they were able to get that thing out of the water.

“I think a hundred and twenty feet of water,”

and they were able to recover more bodies, they were able to recover belongings to the kids, very important stuff. But they still are like, we have like, "Dia, what caused this?"

What the actual cause was. But it took President Park to be impeached before they raised that thing, because she was essentially sitting on it. She didn't want it to make the news cycle again.

But they're still together. They didn't just get their money and say, like, whatever. Another group were charged with negligence and incompetence. They were 11 Coast Guard officers. - Yeah. - They're all stood trial.

One of them, I think he was the commander of that one Coast Guard boat that was there on the scene. He served a four-year sentence from what I saw. - Yep, there was also the bucket of the illegal surveillance that happened, the obstruction that happened

when the government was trying to deflect, you know, basically all attention on themselves. So from that bucket, six officers with the Defense Security Command, which is their military intelligence agency,

were convicted of illegally surveilling the families, you know, the victim's families. And then two of the president's top aides, were actually acquitted of interfering with investigations. But they were, they were tried, I guess.

- Yeah. And like I said, the grieving, the parents that became activists, they created essentially a couple of groups that both have four, 16 in the name that are there essentially get the truth revealed,

make sure that everyone who hasn't been punished is still punished, they also have managed to get the actual classrooms removed from the high school

“and reinstalled, I think, at the Department of Education.”

And it's now a memorial museum, the four 16 memorial classroom. And there's multiple classrooms that are just empty and they re-did them exactly the way that they were left when the students left to go on their field trip. And it's the area, I saw one picture in the April 2014

wall calendars still up. - Yeah, geez. - Yeah, it looks really stirring.

This sadly was not, you know, the last disaster to strike South Korea just a few years ago in 2022. In October, 159 young people died in a crowd rush during Halloween and known as the E-Taiwan crowd crush. And they, you know, at least there were parents

from the C-Walt disaster that came forward to get together with these parents and say, hey, you've got a friend in me and we can be together in this activism, you know, so like join up with us

“'cause we're already going strong and that's what happened.”

- Yeah, because I guess what I left off the main point of what they're agitating for is better government regulation for public safety responses for things like shipping requirements,

like just basically repealing some of the deregulation

that led to these unsafe conditions that allowed that crowd crush to happen, that allowed the C-Walt ferry to sync without people being enough people being rescued. - Yeah.

- So yeah, hats off to them for continuing what they're doing. - Yeah, sad, tough, tough, tough when I remember this going down. I remember seeing the images of that captain coming off that boat in his underwear and just saying like, what is this guy doing?

- And we talked about the, it's one crowd crush in the crowd crush episode. - Yeah, that's right. - I also just wanna make sure everybody goes and watches in the absence that New Yorker documentary,

it's like less than 30 minutes long. - Yeah, I mean, it's really something. - Agreed. - Well, Chuck said, yeah, and agreed to, that means it's time for listener mail.

(bell ringing) - This is not a sad listener mail, so we're gonna end on a little brighter note. It's about deodorant. Hey guys, I'll listen to the anti-personant deodorant episode

and I wanted to share this with your listenership. If you, and I guess Chris here isn't into standard deodorants and has some advice. - Okay. - If you mix equalish parts of coconut oil

with baking soda to your favorite consistency,

“maybe if you have a favorite essential oil”

with desired, you can drop that in there. It's frankly the best deodorant ever for those whose bodies laugh at anything supposed to stop that is supposed to stop sweat. Because personally, this chick thinks of hot dogs in sweat.

So the capability of it completely masking body odor is remarkable, at least with my stubborn stink. And we get a cheers from Chris and Chris and it's a little PS. If you get irritated from the baking soda,

maybe just add some more coconut oil until your skin doesn't complain. - Nice. Thanks Chris, it's good stuff. I do have to warn you, do not just wily nilly

put a bunch of essential oil in there, though.

Like I found that out the hard way when I guess poison ivy in you is just put some oil on. Some essential oil on, I don't remember. I just put essential oil on it. My skin just started burning immediately.

- No, you're supposed to mix it with other oil first. - It's gonna say what it needs. - Why didn't you call Emily, but you mean you knew that? Yeah, you got to really dilute that stuff. A little goes a long way.

So I would imagine a couple of drops in your deodorant concoction would be plenty. - It's like the old slogan says, a couple of drops tops.

“If you want to get in touch with us like Chris did,”

send us an email like Chris did. You can send it off to stuff podcast that I HeartRadio.com. - Stuff you should know is a production of I HeartRadio.

For more podcasts, my HeartRadio visit the I HeartRadio app. Apple podcasts are wherever you listen to your favorite shows. - Two percent.

That's the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. On Michael Easter, and on my podcast, two percent, I break down the signs of mevel toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern worry.

With yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side, a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. - Listen to two percent? That's TWO percent on the I HeartRadio app,

Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. - In 2023, Bachelor Star Clayton Eckard was accused of fathering twins. But the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax. - You doctor this particular test twice in selling stretch.

I doctor the test once. - It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. - Right the less the end, I can imagine it.

- My mind was blown. - I'm Stephanie Young. This is LoveTrap. - Laura, Scott State Police. - As the season continues,

Laura Owens finally faces consequences.

Listen to LoveTrap podcast on the I HeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. - I have City Hall building.

Somebody tell me that.

- A shocking public murder.

“- This is one of the most dramatic events”

that really ever happened in New York City politics.

(dramatic music)

“- A screen, good-down, good-down, those are shots.”

- A tragedy that's now forgotten, and a mystery

that may or may not have been political, that may have been about sex.

“- Listen to Worshack, murder at City Hall,”

on the I HeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. - This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.