Sophomore Jinx w/ Lothaire Bluteau

[MUSIC PLAYING]

This is exactly right. [MUSIC PLAYING]

I'm Clayton Neckard, in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor.

But here's the thing. Bachelors fans hated him. If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would. That's when his life took a disturbing turn. A one-night stand would end in a courtroom.

The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract. I agree to date me, but I'm also suing you. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before.

I'm Stephanie Young, listen to the love trap on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast, doubt the case of Lucy Letby.

We unpack the story of an unimaginable tragedy that gripped the UK in 2023. But what if we didn't get the whole story?

Adam has been made to fist.

The moment you look at the whole picture of the case,

“what if the truth was disguised by a story we chose to believe?”

Oh my God, I think she might be innocent. Listen to doubt the case of Lucy Letby on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When you feel uncomfortable, what do you put on?

Biggie. You put on biggie when you feel uncomfortable? So I want to get confident. This is DJ Hester Prince, music is therapy. A new podcast from me, a DJ and licensed therapist,

12 months, 12 areas of your life. Money, love, career, confidence. This isn't just a podcast. It's unconventional therapy for your entire year. Listen to DJ Hester Prince, music is therapy.

On the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Of the law and order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable. We are the amateur detectives

who kind of investigate the vicious felonies, these episodes are based on. These are our stories. Done, done. (upbeat music)

Hello, everybody and welcome to that's my sub. And as for you, podcast, I'm Caraclanc. And I'm Lisa Trager, and we're coming at you at a normal speed. We're talk about SVU, true crime.

And we interview people. It's really a jam-packed podcast with so many elements

“that we didn't think about before we began, I think.”

(laughing) Lot, yeah, we really came into this without a lot of thought and it's been a lot more work than we thought it would be. And we couldn't even imagine. (laughing)

But it's good, it's good to feel like you're in college. Researching makes me feel smart, you know, like I like it. I like expanding my mind. So what's going on, you've had a, I mean, it's only Wednesday, you've had a busy week and feels like.

I'm a go-go-go, you know, it's like, yeah, he did rivalry has taken me out of my depression, which has been hard because I prefer rest nap and sleep. Yeah, I'm just not doing that anymore. I'm just nonstop.

I'm just, yeah, I've been pretty busy. I will say I was an ass. I mean, the blizzard, the weather, things ever ended that came to see me everywhere. But I didn't realize that Aspen is where Ted Bundy

escaped from the courts and he murdered a woman there. Where I was staying. - Near where I was staying. - Oh, shit. - Yeah, immediately.

“- I'm really getting out in Colorado, I forgot where or yeah.”

- The shuttle driver's like, I could tell you were cool. Like he actually knew nothing about me. He didn't even know I was a comedian

so I finally had to be like, what am I doing here?

Like can you help me figure this out? And he was like, oh, you're a performer, but he just started talking to me about Ted Bundy in a way that he's like, I could just tell you would be down. And I'm like, I was and then I sat next to a woman.

Okay, listen to this, I talked to her, she goes, I go to Aspen once a year with these guys. I meet up with my guys, I go with my guys. Her background on her phone is her with her children. She's not wearing a wedding ring.

Then I see I overhear her talk to someone else and she's like, yeah, my husband has surgery tomorrow, but I told him I do this trip every year, I don't care. So she does have a husband, but like, doesn't like him enough to be anywhere on her phone.

And no photos, no wedding ring. He's having surgery, she doesn't give a fuck and she's meeting all these guys. And she goes, yeah, they're really competitive guys. And I'm like, okay, so I'm telling my shuttle driver

and he goes, oh yeah, I got proposition for a gang bang last night, he goes, it's a funky place here. And I go, oh, I go, did you gang bang last night? And he goes, no, I don't like waiting for my turn. And I go for sure for sure.

Wait, how did you meet this woman? She sat next to me on the plane.

People just thought, okay, I don't know what to tell you.

Okay, but the gang bang guy was my shuttle driver Parker.

“Okay, your shuttle driver guy told you about the gang bang”

and Ted Bundy, how long was the shuttle ride? Under 15 minutes, got it. Yeah, guys really locked in. You guys got it fucking done. (laughing)

That is so funny. Oh my god. And then in Kansas, I had so much fun. But I, so back in the green room, I could hear a table talking.

So like, I already knew I was gonna kick them out. Like, 'cause they're interrupting the other guy. I could just, I just knew. Yeah, yeah. And when I got there, they're having a full conversation

in the front row, which means they also paid extra to sit in the front. But also, I was meeting people from the early show and they got in line and then they yelled at me. They go, wait, we're waiting in line.

What are you doing? And I go, the lines to meet me.

So like, they actually don't know who I am,

but they paid extra to sit in the front and then they're talking the whole time. So I asked them to stop talking, they don't. I asked Dan, I go, actually, you're gonna leave. I'm like, I don't have time for it.

Like you're leaving.

“So they end up, I'm like, you're bothering everyone.”

Everyone hates you. People spend money to be here. Like, get the fuck out of my show. Like, I'm not performing for you. Get out of here.

So on their way out, one of them throws her glass with ice, like, throws her glass. Then the other one takes forever to, like, to pay. Then they leave, whatever the show is great. And then there's two girls that are wearing bucket hats

that the print is cheese. And then they glittered it with my initials. - Oh. - Okay. So like, so I'm hanging out with these girls and they go, oh, we talked to those psychos

before the show. They're police dispatchers. One is a boss and the others her employee. And they're in a secret relationship. They're not supposed to be in.

- Oh my God. - Being fucked up in the front, being menaces. And then the door guy says, - Have we learned nothing from the cold? Like, couple, if you are out in these streets

in an affair, play it cool, lay low. Don't sit in the front row of a comedy show and throw a glass. Like, someone could videotape you. - So like, the people, the guy who worked there,

Scott, he was like, yeah, they were being a really aggressive and yelling until I threatened to call the cops and they immediately shut down and apologize didn't left. - Yeah, they're like, you're gonna call our coworkers.

- Yeah. - Crazy. - Yeah, so those are the dispatchers. - Wow. Oh my God, oh, what a time.

- Yeah, yeah. But everyone brought me so many heated rivalry gifts. It's like insane. You guys, you guys, I can't imagine. I can't imagine your apartment right now

is not just like a shrine. - I showed you this, right? - I got this pouch. Someone gave me this pouch. - Oh, that's it.

- It's really nice. - I didn't get a chance to watch the SNL yet but I heard he was good. - Yeah, that was really good. But I have all my Russian flashcards in there.

- Ooh. - My pouch. - Wow, perfect. - That is perfect. I know I'm having a really fun time with this woman.

But everyone just tells, yeah, it's pretty crazy. People just confess things to me quickly. But anyways, that's what I got. - That's great. I think that's great.

That happens to me as well. People will confess things. I'm like, we do not know each other very well. But I'm happy to listen. Wait, let me ask you a question.

Do you? - I've been blacked out twice this week, yes. Oh, it's Wednesday. Okay, great, great, great, perfect. - I went out last night too.

I went out Monday night and then she's dinner. And then I'm up at seven a.m. doing work. I don't know how. - I like that you're not letting it slow you down. Yeah, I think I might have a heart attack at like 67,

but whatever, what are you gonna do? - What are you gonna do? What are your 70s for? Are you gonna have fun then? Come on.

No, wait, I was gonna ask you. We just talked about this with a guest, but I want to talk about it here.

When do you remember the first time you saw like a horror movie?

Or like a horrific scene from a horror movie? Or like the first time, like you saw, like one of the, not something that scared you, but just like a classic horror movie. Like a scene from Freddy Jason, something like that.

- Yeah, it, it, TV movie it.

“- I don't fucking know, but I remember that clown,”

I remember him. - Yeah. - But what really up to me? - I thought that clown was in my basement. - Yeah, so I was, I'm not, it's just like fucked

'cause they're not scary, and I didn't actually see the movie, but the Hocus Pocus Witches scared the shit out of me. - Oh, really? - And I thought they were gonna come out of the toilet. Like I was too scared to flush the toilet.

Like I would flush it and run out 'cause I was so scared the witches are gonna come out. - I was terrified. - I, I would say, okay, I definitely remember seeing a, Friday that 13th, I think, when I was like seven,

because I remember I was in my babysitter's room, and they had the TV on, and it was like two kids

At a camp, like making out, like counselors,

making out, and then a pool stick goes up through the bed through both of their bodies. And I was like, what the fuck,

“and then I think my babysitter was like,”

oh shit, turn this up, I realized what I was watching.

That was like the first time,

but I was like seven or so when that happened, probably second grade, Jared has been telling our children both of them ages four and six, the full plot of Jason. So and other movies like that, like, but not letting them see it, just telling them about it.

So like the other day, I was sitting across like it on the floor of my bathroom while Oscar was pooping because he's annoying and like sometimes needs help wiping. He's too old for that, I know. You don't need to message me and tell me I know he is.

And he was like, mom, dad told me about Jason and how he went to summer camp and he drowned in a lake because the counselors weren't paying attention. And then he came back to life, and he turned into a monster, and he killed all of, he just wanted to kill everybody.

And now I'm scared. And I was like, Jared, could you come in here for a second? I'd love you to, I'd love to talk to you about what you're talking to our four-year-old about.

And he apologized, but now it's like two late,

and they're talking about murder all the time.

“And they're like, I mean, it's your house full of tension.”

- What'd you say? - Murder is the household profession. - They're not for murder. Like, I don't know what to tell you. - I know, now they're like a napo obsessed with murder.

And like, now they're doing who would win like contests, but it'll be like Jason versus like the the mischievous cat in Gabby's dollhouse. I'm like, and they're like, we think cat rat would win. I'm like, you guys have no concept

of what you're talking about. It's so crazy, but Jared's actually talking really bad. It's now they're gonna tell other kids. Like, I don't really, we can control them in our own house, but like you tell other kids the scary shit

and then you become the kid who's the parent who's like letting their kids see all this bad. - I mean, what did Jared think was gonna happen? - I know, he just thought, he goes, I just know they like it. And so I like, I, they like when I tell them about stuff

that they know is like a little bit like bad for them to know. So he's giving into it. But, oh, now I'm gonna have to do damage control 'cause like, well no, 'cause I just watched, I hadn't, we had no, you know, that's part of my lore

as I went to the movies every week with my parents. - Yeah. - And we watched everything. So I was really haunted by the scene in Casino where they're burying the two brothers alive at the end.

I've never even seen that.

Fuck. - Yeah, so as a child, I remember watching people being buried alive, pleading for their lives. - Bury to live was also like my biggest and remains one of my biggest fears.

“- Yeah, I think about Killville all the time.”

- The hitting, the client. - Oh, I don't know, I don't want to be buried alive. I don't want to be held captive in a basement. I mean, I have a lot of things that I don't want to-- - No, yeah, anything subterranean is not for me,

not not happening. - I'm Clayton Eckard, and in 2020 too, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. - Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan. He became the first bachelor to ever have his final rows

rejected, the internet turned on him. - If I could press a button and rewind it, all I would. - But what happened to Clayton after the show made even bigger headlines? It began as a one-night stand

and ended in a courtroom with Clayton at the center of a very strange paternity scandal. - The media is here. This case has gone viral. - The dating contract.

- Agreed to date me, but I'm also suing you. - This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. This season, an epic battle of he said she said,

and the search for accountability in a sea of lies. - I don't know the answer, get rid of the (beep) Brassler. - Listen to Love Trapped on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

In 2023, a story gripped at the UK, evoking horror and disbelief. - A nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history.

- Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict of villain, a nurse named Lucy Leppi. - Lucy Leppi has been found guilty. - But what if we didn't get the full story? - The moment you look at the whole picture,

the case collapses. - I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast doubt, the case of Lucy Leppi, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it. To ask what really happened when the world decided

who Lucy Leppi was. - No voicing of any skepticism are doubt. - It'll call so much harm at every single level of the British establishment of this is wrong. - Listen to doubt, the case of Lucy Leppi,

on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. - Hi, I'm Danielle Robay, host of Bookmarked, the podcast by Reese's Book Club,

This week we are talking about a monster.

Or maybe the woman who refused to be one.

“I'm sitting down with Maggie Gillen Hall”

to unpack her new film The Bride, and trust me, this isn't your grandmother's bride of Frankenstein. It's darker, smarter, sexier, a full reimagining of what happens

when the monster gets a voice of her own. - What I was more interested in was the monstrousness inside of each of us. You can spend your life running from those things, or you can turn around and shake hands with them.

If I'm honest about that, and I tell my story about monsters really dealing in something truthful, and I do it in a way that's pop, that's hot, that's like getting on a roller coaster, will people respond.

- Listen to Bookmarked. The Reese's Book Club podcast on the I Heart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

- Oh, wait, I have to tell you this, have you been listening to Tricksey and Kautia? Like, are you caught up with me?

“- I am, but, you know, I've been so busy.”

- Yeah, so it's on in the background. I'm falling asleep to it, but I'm also blacked out. So I don't know, but I put the stuff on my screen before you do that. I took my nephew, but I felt like he was old enough.

It was 2013, I took, I took him to see the movie The World's End. And I guess it's scared the shit out of him. It's a Simon Peg movie, it's like a hot fuzz. It's like, there, it's a drinking British movie. - Wow, it's the end of the world, yeah.

- And I was just like, then I don't understand children because I was watching fucking the pianist as a child. I was watching like the Holocaust unfolds. I don't know why this is scary to you. - How old was he?

2013, I guess 10, 11, yeah. - Yeah, I was watching Holocaust movies by 11, I would say. - I mean, by 11, I was watching Twin Peaks when I was 11. And Bob, the one armed man, I also thought was living in my basement and was the scariest character I'd ever seen in my life.

- Casey's gonna say something. - Bob and the one armed man are two separate characters. - Oh yes, sorry, not Bob, the one armed man. No, Bob is scary, not the one armed man. Bob, the one armed man is fine.

- And what is Bob is scary? - What is this? - Bob is a character on Twin Peaks, but really, is this true Casey? This is Laura I heard that he was just working on the set

of Twin Peaks and David Lynch or somebody saw him and goes, that's the scariest motherfucker I've ever seen and put him in the show. - Yes, he was a set designer on the show and they were shooting a scene and his reflection

was in the mirror of a scene and David Lynch was like, - Oh my God. - Oh, that's great, we got it and the cinematographer was like, no, his face is in the mirror and he's like, well, now he's the villain of the show.

Like, that was like-- - And he becomes this villain of the show and you don't know if he's like real or not or like, he's so spooky and I thought he was living in my basement. - The one our man is a nice man, yeah.

- Yeah, and I confused. - I guess Kyle McLaughlin like drives by the Twin Peaks area

“and waves to people at a specific time, do you know this?”

- No, but I love that, come a Glocklin, it's so. I'm like enjoying his weirdo era that he's in like doing weird TikToks and like being having a podcast. - Yeah, Kyle McLaughlin, the podcaster. - Yeah, wait, so this glides right into the show.

- Yeah, tricks in caught too. - Tricks in caught, yeah, on their podcast. So I texted Tricksie like two weeks ago because they hit 250 episodes and I was like, hey, congratulations on 250 episodes.

She read my text on the pod. - I knew it was you, I knew it was you. - It was me. - I listened to it and I fucking knew it was you 'cause I go who else and then you talked about podcasting

the medium like you don't respect it or something. - Yeah, like as a joke. - Yeah, I fucking knew it, I can't believe it and text you. I was listening to that, I bet it's Carol like who else would text about podcasting to him.

But then I thought maybe Nicole buyer. - Yeah, no, it was, I don't wanna embarrass her. So we didn't say my name, I was like, babe, it would not have embarrassed me. You could have said my name.

- But he was like, I sent him this text that was like, that was like, hey, congrats on 250 episodes. Like as a podcaster myself, I don't respect the medium

and as a comedian I never laugh.

But your show makes me laugh consistently and I listen religiously, you know. And they, like obviously that's a joke, I respect the medium. But like they are now starting with my text, are starting like a thing at the end of their episodes

where they like read compliments. 'Cause they feel like they end their podcast to abruptly. - Yeah, I listen. - And not us, I mean, you can't get us to shut the fuck up. We're like, we're about to end 10 times

and then we finally do. - No, for them, they'll just be like, okay, bye.

- No, they go, we should end.

I guess we can give them a few more minutes and then they're like, yeah, we have to go now. And I'm like, okay, go. I know.

And they're always like, all right, we have to be done

and then they are done. But like they're gonna now go like ding and like tell you, okay, we're winding down now and then read a compliment from somebody.

“- No, you're right, 'cause I know that's the only thing”

that really makes you laugh. But, yes, I mean, really, I knew it was- - Yeah, that's so exciting. - I was so shocked. I was listening to the podcast on the way to a spot

on Saturday and was like, oh my God. Wow, I can't end so soon. - That's so exciting. - That's so exciting. - Well, I was excited, you know why I was excited

'cause I don't know Katia at all and I think Katia's so fucking funny, they both are. And she laughed at the text and I was like, well, I made Katia laugh and that makes me happy. - Yeah, no, it was a really good text.

It was a good message and they have a great point. I said creature who struggles yesterday. - Yeah, I said, I'm sorry.

I'm just a creature who struggles.

Like I say now. - There are so many things Katia says all the time though that I'm like, that's so Lisa. Like there really is. Like she really, you guys really- - Oh, the speaker actually.

- Have to meet and speak Russian. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. Like it's going to happen. Happen one day, maybe at Cherley's Therence holiday party. (laughs)

“- Yes, who knows what we're gonna get in on that.”

- I mean, to be in the cuss and the edges holding on of Hollywood for a decade and a half. (laughs) Just almost invited to any party. (laughs)

(laughs) So crazy. - Amazing. - All right, but speaking of Russian. - Let's do, you know.

- Well, we're three, the memes are crushing. - Yeah, I wish you all the best. And I hope we survive. 9/11 was an inside job. What do you guys want, you know?

- Yeah, yeah. (laughs) - We're gonna get started, but let me just say, go to thatsmastuplive.com. If you would like to check out our very soft,

very cute Caroline Blue, Lois, Louise, Lewis, shirt that we have for sale, you can also get to Lisa's website that way, but it is now LisaTrigger.com. And they're also glitterchies.com. They redirect to each other.

- Very good. - They do. - Very good. - I spent the big bucks, the big bucks. I mean, the amount of people I'm employing. - I can't do, I can't live like this.

- Yeah, you can also subscribe. - I keep adding. - I keep adding. - I'm starting hypnotherapy tomorrow. Oh, you are? - Yeah. - For what?

- It's free my subconscious of alternatives. - Interesting, I can't wait to hear about this. I hope that they don't make you come up with old repressed memories that aren't real though, crossing my fingers.

“- No, I think I'm just chasing freedom from the past.”

- I don't know. - Wow. I'm excited to hear about this journey. It's like we're on Russian lessons. We're getting hypnotherapy. We are working.

- Wait, I wanted to say something. But podcast, Chris Fleming was on Caleb's podcast. And Caleb asked him, "Why don't you have a podcast?" And he goes, "Because he says it's so flowery." - It's so funny. - So funny.

- But Chris basically is just like,

"I think in the afterlife, I will be rewarded handsomely for not having one." - Yes. - Like, it's for the divine reason. Like, I just, we will be rewarded.

- So funny, that's another shout out. Watch Chris Fleming's HBO special. Like, he is really a comedian who is doing it. Like, nobody else does it, really? And I really think he's so fucking funny.

I did stand up and clown with him. The wildest, the clown show. - Oh no, how am I clown it is? It's the hardest thing for me right now with Connor's story.

It's like, it's really hard. And that he's in clowning. - Oh, it's good. It's like, made him the performer he is today. - There is some good clowning.

There is good clowning. We're friends with Natalie. She's the queen of the clowns, like we, you know, we. But, so check out Lisa's road dates. Also, we have a Patreon.

We just last week released an episode where we dive into the America's Next Top Model Docs. So if you're dying to hear us talk about that, get involved, patreon.com/that's messed up. I haven't plugged in a little minute,

but if you wanna hear us take advice, calls, me and my friend Jackie have a podcast called Who's the Bitch over on the Last Podcast Network. Go give that a listen. - Well, I'm looking everything.

I've made a Simpsons Recreation of Heated rivalry. It's on my Instagram on January 23rd. - Yes, please scroll back to Lisa's, please scroll back to Lisa's Simpsons, which she is making me send to anybody I talked to

about, he did rivalry. And I have done send it at the forum press. - I showed two people at the bar yesterday and I watched them, watched them look at it. - Have you sent it to Christine Nangle?

- No. - I'll send it to her. - I think you should send it to her. She's a Simpsons writer. - Well, she hooked me up.

She's the reason I got to the top of the table read. - I think you should just say, listen, I want you to see- - I should send her my art one too.

- Yeah.

- Yeah, people made a special term. - Yeah. - Okay.

“- I like to start it, all that information,”

pretty much is on, that's messeduplive.com, or the link in our Instabio. And let's get started. We've got a good episode for you today. - Okay, lucky day to day, a season one.

Can you believe a season one? - A season one. - Three and nine, 11, sneaking in here, October 25th, 1999, sophomore, jinx, episode six. Sixth episode, ever.

Cool. - And you see it sometimes, you see it sometimes. - Okay, a ginger guy in girl in a super cute dress are sitting on a belt, like a built-in bench into a stone wall.

And it's pissing me off from the first second.

She says, "No, thanks." He's like, "Oh, what do you do in? "A no means no thing." And it's like, "I like that that was a trend." It's like, "What are you talking about?

"Why would it know not mean to, like it's insane? "It's really insane in the world we live in "and it's wild that we're surviving."

“So, she says, "She says, "Shada, I'll get into this more."”

Okay, so he's trying to salt her. And so, and he's like, "I did your calculus homework for you." So, do it. And she's keeps pushing him and saying, "No." And then lucky them, there's a dead other woman.

So, while he's trying to pounce on her, he sees over her body that there's a dead woman in the bushes. Shocked he lost his boner, what a freak. So, she didn't get raped because another woman's dead. Stabilers wrestling, looking for his keys,

he's near the family computer desktop and like, why didn't life just stop there, right? Like, one computer and had a nice desk and we did it. And it's so suburban and I yearn for it. And, uh-oh, a blonde daughter sneaking back into the house

wrong time, there's a dead girl, your daddy's awake. And it's Morin, she says, "Hi, Daddy." She looks stressed, obviously, she's been out. And she has a tattooed choker necklace on, I'm obsessed with her.

It's 23 AM, she's not gonna be honest with her dad, obviously. And he goes breathe on me. And he sniffs her and goes, "Who?" She says, "No, buddy." And he goes, "Okay, so out, nothing, no, buddy."

I don't like this, your busted, your grounded. Unless I get answers, get out of my fucking face. So, she tells her life isn't fair and goes. So, Benson and Stable are on the scene, meeting a uniformed cop.

And he's explaining, "No underwear, bad blow to the head." And cement fragments are in the wound. And so, the cop is like, "Anoid, he has to look for the murder weapon." And I mean, this guy's crazy. They're like, "Okay, well, what rock there is no rock?"

Like, we have to find the murder weapon. He goes, "And who's gonna do that?" And they go, "Well, you're gonna do that." And he goes, "What?" And they go, "Yeah, search here and here and search through the trash."

He goes, "That trash."

And it's like, "No, let's see your first bag."

But it's not even that. It's like, "Why are you acting like this is psychotic?" Like, there's a dead girl. Like, "Do you just not want to solve it?" You don't want to solve it.

You don't want to wear it. You just want, like, "What are you doing? Why don't you just become another type of city worker?" You can get a pension laying brick. Like, what are we doing?

Yeah. Yeah. Find the fucking weapon. So this dead girl can have some justice. Okay.

I'm back. So, she's also wet, and it's because of the automatic sprinkler system. So the forensics are now fucked. Sailberg goes to talk to the couple. They really have nothing, but her purse is there, and she's a sophomore, Jean Gallagher.

And her ID says, "Bomin Hall." So maybe, or like, school ID or something. And they ask the couple, "Bomin Hall," and they point. So, she was almost fucking home, like, she was right there. Credits.

It's precinct brain storm time.

“Jeffries calls it a disrespectful staging, and Benson goes, "Are you fucking stupid?”

It's called a rape." I mean, they fight from the beginning. They like, "Hey, her." They even from the beginning.

They're always just like, "Get to court."

I mean, she's going to go to court here today. Like, she's always having to do something else. Yeah. So we need to find the murder weapon. We know nothing about this girl, but she was fucking drunk.

Like, two, seven, triple the limit. Craig and goes, "Man, I remember a time when I would crave a woman who can drink like that." And he breathes in versus fully. Um, so, like, we have to figure out where these kid, like, they got the booze.

Where were they? So there was a party. There was a party for the St. Raymond basketball team. We're going to pretend that New York City has great athletic colleges and it's a great sports team.

And it's really exciting. Um, but I'm sure there's, like, some Catholic colleges that are going to basketball right. But Columbia has some Ken have good sports, but I think that might be, I don't know, oh, no, Hofstra, Hofstra is good at basketball.

Okay. Casey. Did you want to jump in?

St.

Okay.

They have a good basketball team.

Okay. Wow. You guys are like, "Stablers." You know, all the good, uh, Catholic sports. So Cassidy and Monch have a fight about college athletes being paid and money being spent

on them. And Monch mentions the Sultan of Brunei, I don't know what they're doing. And young Cassidy, so fucking hot, and Craig and like shut up guys, there's a dead girl. And he sends them and said to talk to the university and see how she spends her evenings. Jeffrey's in court for a severed head guy.

And that's that. They send her away. So the man arrived and it's a priest. And he's like, she's a very promising student. The death was a terrible blow to the whole school.

We're doing a campus wide mass.

“And they're like, "Well, how well did you know where he goes?”

Oh, no. I'm an administrator.

I've never met this woman in my life, uh, but many people have a lot of her."

So they're like, "Okay, um, yeah. We'd like to talk to people who knew her, please, father." And he goes, "Oh, well, the school's doing our own investigations, so we'll keep you posted." And so we know this guy's going to be difficult.

And he says, "We'll give you the full rapport and much like hates him snorkels at him." And goes, "Yeah, I'm sure it'll be effective, father." Cassidy's like, "Well, she was drunk. He's like, "Well, we'll do alcohol classes." And he's like, "No, that's not what it's about.

Like, we're not here to like change, like shut up. We're wishy. Like, where were the party? Like, where were people? So we can help find who did this, not like demonize drinking."

And he says, "To go talk to the host, this committee. I mean, I'm filming. It's a group of women who support the basketball team." And it's motivated campus women, he calls them, and we go to a woman at a desk to give more details.

And so these women, they tutor, they do logistical support, and they iron the shirts of the basketball team. Gene Gallagher was a star hostess, and we, so whatever, we need to know who is at this party. You dumb bitch.

This woman says that Gene came early and helped set up the party. Shelly Brown is her roommate, like maybe they can go talk to her. And like a hot Jewish type of guy jumps on this couch casually, and I'm like, what is this office? What is this hangout?

What is this desk? What is going on?

“Is this just like the party hostess committee lounge?”

And they look at each other and they ask about the party, and she's like mad that he admitted. So he's like, "Oh, yeah, I was at the party and she goes, stop it." And the woman is wearing like a dress shirt vibe, and Cassidy is like, "We're you drinking, and the sky goes, "Why do you care?"

It's like, did the news not spread? I thought there was a mass campus event for this girl's death, like, "Why are you so annoying?" I mention Cassidy get up and they say, "Hey, Riley, you have a rep for being a boo's hound, more than for slamming down hoops, munch says."

And he says, "It's off, it's off season, fuck off." Like, "Who is this kid talking to the cops like this?" So they go, "When time did she leave?" He goes, "Well, I left early with some friends, and we went to an alumni-dude's house." And guess what?

We met the mayor at this party. Okay, now we know why he's cocky. So now we go to a different person. Oh, no, he starts doing some gossip. Chuck Mosley was yelling at her.

That's what we learned.

“So the woman goes, "You know who the mayor was in 1999?"”

Rudy Giuliani. You went to a party with Rudy Giuliani? Get a life. Get a life. Get a fucking life.

That four seasons, oh, that was so good. And of course, the heyday, the press conference, heyday. I'm Clayton Nackard, and in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan.

He became the first bachelor to ever have his final rose rejected, the internet turned

on him. If I could press a button and rewind it all I would. But what happened to Clayton after the show? He'd even bigger headlines. It began as a one night stand and ended in a courtroom with Clayton at the center of a very

strange paternity scandal. The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract agreed to date me, but I'm also suing you. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before.

I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. This season, an epic battle of he said she said, and the search for accountability in a sea of lies. "I don't know being to get pregnant by the f*ck.

Brassler!" Listen to Love Trapped on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2023, a story gripped at the UK, a voking horror and disbelief. The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific

child killer in modern British history. Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict, a villain, a nurse named Lucy Leppi.

Lucy Leppi has been found guilty, but what if we didn't get the full story?

A moment you look at the whole picture in the case, Collaxis.

“I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast doubt, the case of Lucy Leppi, we follow the”

evidence, and hear from the people that lived it. To ask what really happened, when the world decided who Lucy Leppi was. "No voicing of any skepticism are doubt." "It'll call so much harm at every single level of the British establishment of this is wrong."

Listen to doubt, the case of Lucy Leppi, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Danielle Robay, host of Bookmarked, the podcast by Reese's Book Club. And this week, we are talking about a monster, or maybe the woman who refused to be one. I'm sitting down with Maggie Gillen Hall to unpack her new film The Bride, and trust me,

this isn't your grandmother's bride of Frankenstein. It's darker, smarter, sexier, a full reimagining of what happens when the monster gets a voice of her own.

"What I was more interested in was the monstrousness inside of each of us."

You can spend your life running from those things, or you can turn around and shake hands with them. If I'm honest about that, and I tell my story about monsters really dealing in something truthful, and I do it in a way that's pop, that's hot, that's like getting on a roller coaster, will people respond.

It's in the bookmarked, the Reese's Book Club podcast on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. So he goes, "I actually saw Chuck Mosley yelling at her and the woman's like, "That's about a teammate and much goes shut up when I'm talking to you." He goes, "Yeah, she was crying, he was yelling," and he says, "You know, the way those

people get, he means black, he says street players, he uses the word homies and gangster rap, and it's like, it's so crazy," and then he goes, "They think they can get away with anything, and much goes, "Oh, kind of like suburban white boys who get away with stuff because of their daddies money, you think that's better," and he says, "Yeah, while chewing a cookie," and so we know who he voted for in 2026, they go to meet the black players on

the court, and they're having fun at the park, it's shirts of her skins, they call for mostly, but like, no one's really paying attention, and these guys look like such cops or sunglasses are so big, so he turns off the boom box and the game halts without the music, and someone says, "You guys look like the blues brothers, and I am glad they got these guys roasted."

Then they say, "Well, we're looking for you, handsome, and it's Chuck, and we have some questions for him. He smiles and goes, "Call my agent, I'm working," and he tries walking away, Cassie grabs his jersey, not with force, but with a little disrespect, like kind of brings him back a little bit, and they say it's about jeans murder, and he goes, "Oh, okay, so white girls

dead so you come round up all the black dudes first, and Cassie's like, no, no, that's

not what we're doing."

“And much takes over, and is like, "Listen, I know you have to be like tough in front of”

your friends, like you take some aside, and goes, but like, you either have to ride with us, or we're gonna like fucking handcuff you to the fence until a wagon picks you up." She asks for a lawyer. There's no part, like, what the fuck? He goes willingly with that, and he sits in the car before they close the door, and he says

that him and Jean were friends, and they went to the party together throughout eight or nine after practice. He goes, "She's awesome, like so sweet and cool, but when she drinks, she fully changes. It's too much trouble. I wanted to leave.

I wanted to come with. She fought. She didn't want to leave. So, he left." And that was around 1 to 1/30, because he remembers watching Conan O'Brien, and his mom was waiting

up for him. They make fun of his mom. I was wrong. I know. They make fun of his mom being his alibi, and they don't trust him because his mom is visiting

her sixth sister New Orleans, and then they're like, "Well, what hospital is she yet?" And he's like, "I don't know. They go, "Yeah, nice try. You fucking liar." And close the cop door.

And it's like, "I don't know if I was in college playing basketball, and my mom was like, your aunt is sick. I'm going to visit her New Orleans. I don't know if I know the name of the hospital."

“Like, that's such a nuts, smoking gun, and anyway, it's a draft fucking gun, okay?”

So, "Munch, Cassidy, Benson, and a loose fitting grade T-shirt are doing a walk-in talk." "Yeah, they're talking about nothing. I really don't give a fuck." And then in the middle, they meet Stabler and Craig M.

And again, there's just talking nonsense nonsense, like, "What are we going to do?" The school sucks, they don't want us fucking with their star basketball players. They make them too much money, class like a money-over-rape, and murder. Craig and goes, "Well, tell them that we don't take free throw percentages before arrests." And then Stabler says, "And we're going to do a pick-and-roll with the administration

today." "Did you get that reference, Kara?"

"I did.

"Okay, cool." "I do know what a pick-and-roll is." "Okay."

“"And then Benson's sorry to have doubted you."”

"And then Benson is like, "Okay." "And then Benson's like, "Okay." "And I'll go talk to the roommate." "And hopefully, she's not as obsessed with these fucking basketball teams." And they're TV rights or something.

So, they go to the dorm room of Shelley Brown and she's talking all about the stuff she gets, like tickets, flights, cars, and they go, "You get that from cheerleading?" And she's like, "Are you guys dumb?" Like, "If it was cheerleading, why would I quit?" And Stabler and Benson are like, "Oh, fuck."

So, basically, to get better players, they like send these team girls to go fuck these guys and show them a good time. Like, what the fuck? But Jean-y did the money on the scholarship. But she said, like, they were close, but she quit, and like Jean couldn't quit.

And neither of them had boyfriends because you kind of have to like, at least give the illusion of single-ness with all these guys. And she has a Madonna ray of light poster in the background, and I wonder how they cleared that. And she says that she was drunk at a party,

but usually not a heavy drinker at all. That's why she was really like shocked. But everything changed, and I don't know why no one fucking clocked this. So, she basically is like, two months ago, everything changed.

She never drank, and then there was a sweet 16 game that they made.

And so there was three days of celebrations, all these parties. And after that, she lost her spark and started drinking. And they're like, fuck, what happened to her? And she always like, I don't know if that's when she changed. Like, immediately I'd go, she was raped.

Like, I don't know. But she's like, maybe her parents know. She moved in with them for a few weeks after that. Like, obviously something happened. But also why have they talked to the parents yet?

That's where I mean, like, this is a first season. Like, to not talk to the parents. That's like the first thing you kind of care for. Yeah. So it's a man and red framed glasses.

He's looking out the window sad as the sun shines on him. While the mom sits on the couch. So the dad goes stressed is what happened that weekend. And the mom brings out annoyed and angry as fuck dramatic music starts to play. And finally, it's like, oh, our girl was raped.

“The mom says that's what happened to her.”

And Benson and Stabler are now on an outdoor campus stroll with the therapist, who obviously is like, hello patient confidentiality. But they're like, it's a rape. Like, fucking homicide tell us something. And she goes, listen, a basketball player raped her, but no names.

And they're like, well, she was the black or white. And she goes, I don't know.

She was always very vague and I didn't want to put sure.

And Benson's like, um, well, he should be in jail. So maybe she'd help us. And she says, well, okay, fine. Three weeks after the rape, she didn't get her period. And she didn't get an abortion.

And then she got nightmares. And then she started drinking and there's just like too much going on. To have worried about, like, though, like, there was just a lot. You know, you know, to keep this girl afloat. So Cassidy and Monchko to me, um, chunk.

Okay. I just forgot. I was like, in chunk. Uh, it's the met room bars. And he's like, we had words and Monchko's.

Okay, well, she was raped at the sweet 16 party. And he does. Yeah, not surprising. It was an ugly party. But we didn't even know each other.

So I guess they're like new friends. I don't know. Cassidy is like screaming. He's being racist as fuck. He's using yo and other slang.

“It's like, but then it's like this incredible moment.”

Chuck looks at Monchko's. Where does he get this stuff? Like, this is so stupid. And Monch says, well, he's got a fertile imagination. And your major is French literature, like usually you guys have communications or like basic broadcasting.

But you're really doing Rimbau. I don't know. Do you know the snow? Rimbau. And um, and some of you might think so that's just alone.

And it's not. And it's all right. I am BAUD. And then, um, so the Chuck goes. Sure.

I know that first blood speaks to the existential aches of being jerked around by force

is beyond your control. And so Cassidy is lost. So it's like really awesome. He outsmarts Cassidy and then impresses Monch. And Monch is like, okay.

Now we're talking. Yeah. Much is like, I like this guy leaves the room immediately and goes no way at him. And so like they go talk to the French professor.

And it's three time SPU star. He's a human trafficker in Prague. He's an artiling gambling tycoon and gamblers. And he's this French professor in season one. Um, and he has an accent, of course.

French duh. Okay. So he goes in, um, he goes in three years. Chuck will have a shoot named after him. The highest form of praise in American society.

And, um, and then to me, I'm like, Munch should be here. Like, why is it Benson and Stapler? Like, Munch should have gone talk to the French professor.

Um, but professor says Chuck is a very hard working student.

He doesn't really know about Chuck or Jean's relationship

and Stapler goes, are there people that you hate?

“And he goes, oh, you mean like white smug stupid drunk half the time”

selfish players on and off the court. Riley Cougar. So the French teacher hates this guy too. So they go talk to Riley. He shooting hoops.

Benson and Stapler walk in there. And I do want to say this looks like a junior high gym. There's barely like this can't even be a practice gym. This is a high school there. This is crazy.

And this is another season one tell where it's like, this would be a way better set. Five years even down the way. You know what I mean? Yeah.

This is a great college basketball. This motherfucker Chuck is about to have a shoe named after him in the NBA and get drafted. And you're telling me they're practicing in this little dinky fucking gym.

No way. Yeah, they, they couldn't find anything like super impressive. I guess season one and one. I mean, also, can we talk about the name? Riley Cougar.

Like, it's the most deep rapy name I've ever heard.

Like, you can't even say it without sounding like a douche. No, Ryan Cougar. Hi, I'm Riley Cougar. Like, you can't even do it.

Like, what's up? Riley. Riley Cougar. Like, I don't know. I just can't.

It's so bad. It's like a Natalie Polymedus character. Yeah. Yeah. So that's the one tough thing I have with Connor from

He did write for you. Like, all these photos are coming out with his clowning days. And I'm like, I just cannot outside of Natalie. Like, I just cannot.

I have such hatred towards the clown community. The clowns. I hate the clowns.

“I remember I did one of your shows once with the clown.”

And like, when I saw it, I was like, I hate you. And like, you, that Natalie's like best. But they're like, he's like the king of the clowns. No. She's the king of the clowns.

They always hear her. She's the magistrate. She's the overlord. She's better than everyone. I mean, sorry to talk shit about her friends publicly.

But like, I hate it. That's the one really tough thing for me right now, dealing with these clown images. I saw clown show once that he was in. And she was in that was really, really good.

Yeah. I'm sure she really like led the show and nailed it. No. No. He was really the star of their show.

But like, everybody was awesome. And it was really good. But I'm not. I'm not a super. I'm not super pro clown.

I don't really know what I'm even doing. But I did. I'm always doing clowns. I just stand up and count and I won. Me and Jared one.

I don't know what is even happening. But okay. So we're here. They're interrupting the practice. He didn't.

He didn't eyes having anything to do with anything. Stabler goes. It's not a thing. Someone dragged her into the bushes. Rape her and bash her head in with the rock.

Actions. And he's like, are you here? Because you think I raped her in her in the spring. And Benson goes, yeah. Yeah, bet.

He is glistening and sweat. And he has an alibi. He says campus police picked him up at the party. Because he was wasted as fuck. And they actually took him to their offices where he slept all night. And then he smiles smuggly.

So they go talk to Craig in. And like everyone's like, there's no official report. There's nothing. There's no way we can trust campus police. Like we need to figure this out.

And Craig is extra mad because this is just alma mater. And he's like, how dare my alma mater act like this. Fuck campus security. I'm going. I'm showing up.

So Craig and goes himself to talk to this guy. And it's like classic bad guy white short sleeve bullshit. And Craig is in his face. And this guy looks like he's going to buckle. And he wants it off the record.

And Craig and goes, are you, are you, are you new here? And basically, he doesn't. And the Riley said the girl was mad at him because they broke up. And that she was going to use the system. So he covered his ass.

So he goes, a girl with a grudge can destroy a guy. Oh, a guy, whether he, you know, he did it or not. And I've seen it. He says and Craig and goes, well, fuck off. It's mother fucking rape and murder.

You loser. I'm going to ruin your fucking life. Craig and his piss. So finally, the guy like gets the thread.

And goes, he was never here.

It was a mistake. I'm sorry. And Craig and goes, you should be. So yeah, I know it's, that's like, that's the thing. It's like the, the priest and the campus security being like,

Oh, the system. You could ruin a man's life. But it's like you're all protecting the man. Like the systems are protecting them. So how can you, like, I don't get how they can see how it's this unfair thing

“in your life is ruined while continuously helping these people.”

Yeah. They're done. Yeah. They're done. Oh, no.

So stabler's home. It's dinner time. He's being the worst parent ever. More Reno wants to come meet dinner. He goes, no, go back to your room.

You're not allowed in here. It's been days. She hasn't been able to leave her room. Like, what are you doing? You're making your daughter who obviously, like you want to connect with.

I say, earn and starver and even Kathy goes, you're stupid. I hate the way you're handling it. How does, how does Marina end up with a eating disorder in like two seasons? I mean, but I, I think that. Like, yeah, it's like, if you want to, if you want to punish a kid,

you're like, no dance, no this, no sports.

You're not like staying in your room and never come out like that.

I don't know. I don't, that seems like a such a weird apology. It's not even in my head. It's just an outside observer when it comes to teens. It's like, they're obviously going through something's going on.

They're keeping things from you and you want things. And this isn't a perp. You can't slammer on the ground. I swear. Yeah.

“As so, like, you have to talk to your kid.”

That's true.

He's basically putting her in a cell.

He's like, I'll leave you in holding till you're ready to talk. It's like, you didn't take one child sight class in your night school. I don't understand. So, um, and she goes, well, what if my parents acted like that? And he goes, well, we wouldn't have had more in.

And so then they have a flirty smile. You know, and now it's straight to the morgue. We don't get a smile for too long at loud buzzing saw. It's like a dead body and a crazy saw is going off. Benson and Stabil are interrupted.

She's like, what the fuck I'm busy. I'll get to the girl when I can. And they're like, okay, well, we need it, please. And she's like half the staff has the flu. And I missed it.

And I missed it's how Pearlman to prep the seamen sample personally. That's so funny. She was going to go, what is it like to vile in show? Yeah. These, these women, they can take multitudes.

I love this redhead sassy bitch. She goes PCR takes a week. But she goes, I did notice one thing. The sperm count is very, very low. And so they're like, okay, well, who has low sperm count?

So the priest goes, well, I can't have the whole team just jerking off sperm. But the camera pans and guess who it is? Wait, guess, guess, guess, guess. Okay, it's Al Sharpton guy. So Al Sharpton's there.

I'm sure he's pissed and Craig in wants to solve the crimes. And Riley and Chuck are with them. And they're making them jerk into this cup. And they're all laughing as they go to jerk off. And Al Sharpton points to Chuck and goes.

“If you want to refuse, I will stand with you.”

But they go. And then Chuck actually takes much for a private walk. And he's like, hey, like we actually did fuck. Like we, we said, mate, love. He's very romantic. And so he goes, well, we fucked before the party and he goes.

So basically he's like, oh, so you want to let me know that your sperm will be there.

And he goes, no, I won't come positive. It will not be positive because I use condoms. So we're in court. This is Jeffrey's side thing. The defendant is actually killed in custody.

So and in the same manner as his victim. So he's beheaded and court is done. But she goes over to the ADA for some advice. And this guy's from manifest and a few other episodes, I think. Have we talked to him?

I don't know. No. So he's like, she asked us to do it. Hey, I need help on a college case. It's like a rape two months old.

There's not that girls now dead. And there's no physical evidence. And he's like, fuck. We could do a hearsay exception to the grand jury. But ask me someone really credible to like say that this happened.

And they go, what about campus a cop? That's pretty credible. And he goes, yeah, put the needle in his arm. Like he's like confident about that. So now stable revenge and approach the dorms.

And he said that he missed the dorm room life because he had a wife and child as a teenager. And he had to go to commuter school in Queens. And so now we're back with the professor. He's like, I don't take attendance. But like Chuck was there.

Usually he makes comments. But he didn't this time. So I assumed he was hung over. You know, he's kind of like chill. And so then Benson and Saber leave.

So last time he said, like, this guy was saying he's Chuck is so hard working and incredible.

And now he's like a hungover loser. Like what's going on? And he doesn't remember anybody else in class or who was there. But as soon as we give a name, he knows all this information. It seems like he's feeding us info that we want.

What's his angle? Benson thinks he's covering for somebody or something. She has a little ponytail. It's cute. So also the guy's sperm came back to healthy boys.

All their sperm is in ship shape.

“And Jeffrey's leans to mention says, remember when?”

Um, did I talk on this podcast about the sperm racing thing that my friend went to? No. There are like professional like arena events where people watch sperm of athletes like racing each other. They went to go see it somewhere downtown. And I think it was like USC versus UCLA sperm racing.

And it was, I can't believe I didn't talk about it. It was last April because I'm seeing an article that says sperm racing in Los Angeles inside the first of its kind. Yeah, it was UCLA and USC. And it was held in downtown. I landed us to a huge crowd.

And yeah, a 17 year old student entrepreneur from the Bay Area launched the competition to raise awareness of men's health and milk fertility. But it sounds like he was a 17 year old that was like wouldn't this be funny and make a lot of money. I will send you the article. Yeah, I love it. Thank you.

So these guys could compete. They're good. They're ready to go. So Chuck's mother's coming in.

Uh-oh.

She's in cement room bars. And that's weird for a mom. Again, season one.

“And they would have taken her to would room blinds.”

There's future Cassidy a buncher with her.

He has a curfew school comes first and when schoolwork is done, he could do extra stuff.

And then Cassidy goes, "Do you mean big time college basketball is an extra thing?" She goes, "My son is more potential than to be a basketball player." And then they're like, "He's the top player in the paint. Like he can go pro." And Craig and Knox on the windows.

The guys come out and basically they're like, "Damn." Like no matter what happens, nothing can compare to the wrath of this woman. Like, mostly is fucked. And Craig and's like, "We don't have to sperm. The alibi is good.

Like, what are we going to do?" So they decide to go to Agatha's house at St. Raymond's University. And we're talking to Shelley, the roommate again. She's carrying a box. She's doing a really bad job in terms of acting.

And talking about the French professor. Like, there's nothing in that box. She's truly not even holding the bag. Like her holding this box. It's an empty box.

It's a box of air. Yeah. I totally saw that too.

And it was also, it's not going to fit in the trunk of your car, the way you're packing it.

Like, this is crazy. Yeah. Yeah. But so she starts actually talking about the French professor. She goes, "Yeah.

He was eyeing her. She wasn't really into it." And, you know, he was like leering. And there's no law against looking. Because they're like, "Why don't you do anything?"

She's like, "Well, yeah. You can't tell someone like, don't look at me." But every time she was the library was there. Every time she was at a bookstore, he was there. Like, he's a tenured professor.

They have to kill someone to get fired. And he said, "Oh, I'm just there. I just love to read." So they talked to the priest, and he's like, "Listen." I can't, like, it's a dumb bitch student for so well, like, "Professor."

And they're like, "Well, it's not any verses because the girl's dead." So what's going on? This is one of the worst priests I would say. And there's no way he's not committing crimes. So he says, "The professor promised to do better."

And what? Unwanted attention doesn't deserve cops. And Stabler, again, has to remind him, like, a girl is dead on your campus. Yeah. I'm stalking and legal harassment.

And it's like stalking harassment, men are saying, "There's things he's doing." And he goes, "Wow, menace." I guess that's in the eye of the beholder. And it's like, "People like that is like, you're going to be found wrong.

Like, you're wrong about everything. Like, will you quit?"

“Like, that's what I don't like with these people either.”

It's like they're wrong and wrong again and wrong. And like, keep being wrong. Benson leans in and goes, "No father." It's in the eye of the district attorney, the bell's chime. So they walk away, they leave him on a bench

and then Craig and Angie Herman are sitting and they're going through the teachers' past.

And basically he forced himself on a girl at Sarah Lawrence

in 1976. And was accused of oral rape. And then the ravens took him as a TA and he has tons of complaints. Again, it's like a well-liked professor

with tons of complaints. But it's like the terms and culture aren't changing and it's like, that's just what happens. Angie Herman says. And she needs physical evidence

to link to the murder. So search his home as office, do whatever you want. And as she walks out, Craig and goes, "I think I'm falling in love with you." I don't like that.

(laughs) Stable drops more in office, school in his cop car. And he says he doesn't want to have a cold war with someone he loves. And she's like, "I was just afraid."

Like, I didn't really do anything. He's like, "I know you're innocent, but the shit I see is fucked." And so they hugged. So she, somewhere in says sorry, he says sorry to,

but he had to make sure that is young child. That's sorry for us before he did. And the bell rings, she runs in. And then he kisses her forehead. And it's super, it's like,

you suck at communicating Stable air. And yet you want your daughter to be good at it. Like, you're a liar, you hold things in. You're doing all this weird shit. You don't, and then you expect the children

you raise to do something different than you. Yeah, and then you're like, and then you're trying to scare or by being like, and then I find your body parts in New Jersey. And it's like, dude, you don't need to put this dress. You go through on your teen daughter.

Yeah. But he kisses her forehead. All right. So we're back to campus. There's balloons and posters and flowers.

There's just like a giant altar for the victim. And Stable goes fuck this. If I die, I don't want this. And it's like, Benson goes noted. So I'm sorry, a young girl died.

She can't get some fucking flowers put on. Yeah, a balloon is so offensive to you. Like, what the fuck? So then they're like, well, he's been working her a long time.

He probably knows the area really well in the bench and stuff. Like, let's walk around there. And so then while they're walking, they realize, like, a fuck. Maybe she didn't like get, like, he didn't hit her with something. She fell down the stairs or was hit against a wall.

Like, she was hit, like, hit into something. And then dragged here, not hit with a rock in the bush. Benson thinks, um, it's dumb.

“Stable's like, no, I know there's no drag marks, but I really think this is it.”

And Benson goes, wait, no, I think you're right. Like, she could have fallen down the stairs or been pushed by the stairs. Like, I don't think it's a rock. Let's go talk to the TA. So she's like, I just do the papers and grading.

He keeps his own schedule.

And they're like, no, I know we're not here to bust you for anything.

But like, help us. Like, so there's no more dead people. And so she gives up his schedule. And we see a political science class. And then jogging at this reservoir address.

And they're like, well, does he jog? And she goes, no. I would be in a political science class. And that's when it hits them. It's Gene schedule.

He stalked her and had her schedule in his book. He has a class in 20 minutes in the quad. And he loves being on time. So they rush over there. Stable takes the schedule book with him.

Classes outside under the trees. It's like pretty sexual. He's laying, speaking French. Benson says, flowers of evil. How appropriate.

He says, very good. I'm in the middle of a lecture. And Stable says, class dismissed. And they arrest him for rape and murder of Gene. Angie Harman's in cement room bars with him.

Wait, where you just keep going. Doesn't that feel a little bit like premature?

“Did they find the area where she fell down the steps?”

Did they find like the blood?

There was no blood. There were no droplets. I think her. I think him just stalking hers enough to like bring her man. Because stalking is a crime too.

Yeah. But I guess they said rape and murder. Yeah. But yeah. But they'll get a sperm soon enough.

So Angie Harman's in cement room bars with him. I'm going to ask him to roll up his sleeve. Because we're going to get blood in DNA and you're fucked. And his lawyers there, Craigsand's there. Stable's there.

Benson's there. And like a nurse for the blood. And it's a really cool shot. I'm really into it. They're all leering above him.

And he's very small. And they're like, does this look like a French noir to you? And they're like you fucking rape turned through or down the stairs. He goes, no, I did not rape her. And we have your cement by the way.

And we'll get your blood. And then we'll take you to the court. And his lawyer says, Miss, you're badgering my client. Benson, whips her head around and goes, it's detective. Not miss.

And we're not in court. We're in my house. So save your loyering for someone who gives a damn. So good. So he then says, I didn't kill her.

And Stable goes, it's you. And he keeps nodding no. And but there's tears in his eyes. So we know it's him. And he says she was already dead.

Uh-oh. This is taking a weird turn.

And so so basically she felt he says.

Um, that he was watching her. He stalks them. And then he goes the two of them. They go mostly. They were like animals like weasels.

And then he left her. And I waited some more. Look through the window while she partied. And then she finally came out. And then she lost her footing on the top step.

And she kind of laughed a little bit. But her shoe fell off. And she down she went. And he slams the table. And he went to go see her.

And then he starts wiping tears. And Angie goes, did you feel for a pulse? And that's what he kind of looks like. Oh fuck. Maybe I did do something wrong.

“Like I think this whole time he's like, yeah, you know, I saw her fall.”

Whatever. And they're like, but you didn't even check if she was dead. A live helper and nothing. And that's when there is a look of minor understanding. And Stabler adds or something else.

And he looks at Stabler with hate. And then he says I could tell she was dead. So he carried her to the garden. And then um. But again, there was no blood drips.

She's got a bad enough head could cut like thing that she's dead. Pretty much immediately on falling. And there's no blood. Drips leasing to the bushes. I just don't get it.

You know, I love a hole. Go on. So Angie, Harmon screams. Why twice. And then he says so he can make love to her.

Craig and walks out. He doesn't like this. Craig and I can't. I'm out of here. He's like, I'm going to start drinking again.

Get me out of here. I'm going to start drinking again. I'm going to start drinking again. And then I'm going to start drinking again. And then I'm going to start drinking again.

And then I'm going to start drinking again. And then I'm going to start drinking again. And then I'm going to start drinking again. And then I'm going to start drinking again.

“And then I'm going to start drinking again.”

And then I'm going to start drinking again. And then I'm going to start drinking again. And then I'm going to start drinking again. And then I'm going to start drinking again. And then I'm going to start drinking again.

Then I'm going to start drinking again.

And then I'm going to start drinking again.

“And then like moving her body and having sex with it.”

Like I'm sort of a year for having sex with somebody's just dead bodies. So fucking crazy enough. Not enough. Especially if the woman who put jizz in the cupcakes and fed them to the kids got 41 years. Oh, forgot about her.

Yeah. That's so funny. I bring her up once a week. Yeah. Bring her up once a week.

Yeah. I forgot about that cupcake queen.

I'll never let you forget.

Don't worry. I'm here. All the horrors. Right in there. It's like crazy.

What a buzz killer. I am sometimes. What did you just say? That's actually not how it works.

“Like ruining everyone's life at a party.”

All right. So he's going. Okay. So they fucked up this guy's life. He's going to Tulane.

It's not even that bad. He's going to Tulane. His mom's still folding his laundry. Cassidy is flipping a ball around. So why are they there?

Much apologizes. And then Chuck goes, you're a weird cat. But cool. It's like punch him. Punch him in the face.

They all did weird racist stuff to you. They just like assumed you murdered this woman. Rape that you were the devil. Even though obviously you were in like. Cassidy says nothing for him.

I feel like you're right. You're right. Cassidy says nothing though. Cassidy says nothing. Yeah.

And then Riley's not like sorry.

“I was a blatant racist asshole to you also.”

Like. And then Riley Cougar. Uh, Munch says he I can't do voices like you. I really can't. Riley Cougar.

Okay. Money Cougar.

So basically Chuck on the way out goes Riley Cougar.

I guess, you know, he gets away with rape. And then I just lose a year of eligibility. And Munch goes, no. The grand jury has enough to indict him. Like, believe me, what goes around comes around.

And he goes, no, it doesn't look like what you old man. And then Cassidy and Munch both leave in their suits. And that's a dick wolf. And I'm sorry like anybody that knows anything about the way of the world. Those that Riley Cougar does not get got for this rape from three months ago or whatever.

There's no fucking way. I know. We covered in the episode. Girl dishonored. I did talk about this.

I talked about the, the, the gene clerie disclosure of campus security policy and campus crime statistics act or the clerie act. But I'm just going to talk about it again because literally her name is Jean like it's from this episode. Like the girl's name is Jean. And she was a 19 year old Lee high university student who was raped and murdered in her dorm room in 1986 by Joseph M. Henry another student age 20. Her door was propped open for her roommate to come home.

He entered the room to burglarize it and ended up attacking and murdering her. And he later was like. I like hate white people. I don't care. Like he really like acted like his crime was no big deal.

And he was given a death sentence by electric chair by a trial court, which was upheld on appeal. But then tossed out in 2002. He's in prison for life. However, and he's still in prison in Dallas. He's 60 years old.

I looked him up yesterday. So and hers was one of 38 violent crimes recorded at the university in three years at Lehigh, which is a school that I, by the way, applied to and got into and would have totally gone to. It was a great school at it is a great school. But it just goes to show you that it's one of these things where there's all these crimes happening at schools and they're just not telling anyone. So her parents argued that had they known the crime record at Lehigh, they would not have sent Jean there.

And what's crazy is that she was supposed to go to Tulane like her two older brothers and she didn't go. So because when the parents heard about because the parents had heard about a student who had been murdered at Tulane, so they didn't allow her to go there. And also, it's where Chuck ends up going at the end of this episode. Oh my god. Yeah.

So it's crazy that that's where Mosley's transferring to.

So the parents sued, they were awarded $2 million and her murder triggered a backlash against unreported crime at college campuses around the country.

The Jean Cleary Disclosure of Campus Security Policy and Campus Crime Statistics Act or the Cleary Act is a federal statute that was signed in 1990. And requires all post secondary schools like colleges and universities that receive federal funds to issue annual safety reports to perspective and current students and employees. And the reports are supposed to describe college safety policies and give campus crime statistics on everything from murder sex offenses and aggravated assaults to car thefts and liquor law and drug abuse violations.

Colleges are also supposed to let students and employees know quote unquote in a timely manner if they hear about a crime that could threaten others in the community. And under a victim's bill like for example, if you hear a guy that rape someone at a frapp party, you can't just be like, well, we're going to wait until the school does are invested like you should let people know that there was a possible sexual assault at this place because that's in a timely manner like that's a crime that could threaten others in the community if it's found, you know.

Under a victim's and then also under a victim's bill of rights provision that...

And if a college or university violates these rules, their federal funds can be denied, but I mean, I read this article in the New York Times from 1996 that says that no one's federal funds have been denied.

“But does that mean that all the schools are complying it more likely is that like the Department of Education is not super hardcore enforcing this and now they definitely aren't because Trump basically got to them and they barely exist.”

So that's that on the G and Clary Act. But I think that a lot of this case, not the murder and not the teacher aspect of it is ripped from the Katie Kesner case, which four years after gene lost her life in 1990 and the same in the same year that the Clary Act was signed. Katie Kesner of Pennsylvania started her freshman year at William and Mary in Williamsburg, Virginia, a school I toured soon she met a guy that she was interested in this other student. She says quote, I thought he was smart savvy talented congenial.

He seemed to have instant friends going around. He could sing. He could play piano and he played a great game of soccer.

“He was a lot of things to me that I thought were really intriguing. That's what she told the William and Mary student newspaper the flat hat a week after meeting.”

They went on their first date to a nice French restaurant where he paid for dinner and champagne and she's like 18 years old. She's like a freshman. She's like, oh my god, this is so romantic.

Afterwards, she did not want to go back to his room because she thought maybe his roommate would be there. What's worse than one man two men or that there might be alcohol and she did not want to drink. So she was like, come back to my room and hang out. And then once they were there, he started pressuring her to have sex. First she thought it was not a big deal. Like she kept saying, no, he moved across the room and then he would start taking off his clothes and she went through a stuffed animals at him. Like she just still. She thought it was all cute, but she did tell him I want to wait until marriage. Like I don't want to have sex.

And he continued to pressure her for hours and eventually he pinned her down on the pink carpet of her dorm room floor. He was about 185 pounds. She was 105 pounds. And up until this point, she did not. She was still not worried about being raped. And then she told the BBC, I think no one ever told this guy. No, I think he had a ginormous ego and had always had what he wanted in life. And then he, you know, raped her and she was a virgin and she's always like she said to have that special moment, which I was saving for my wedding night, squashed into a pink carpet on a cement floor in my room was jarring to my whole self, my whole soul.

So she is like very positive that she has been assaulted, but she's it's very clear, very quickly that no one supports her in that assertion. Okay, she did not get formally examined or receive medical attention until 24 hours after the attack. School medical staff was like completely let her down. The school nurse told her to take some sleeping pills and rest to the events off quote unquote rather than get a rape kit. She called her parents and her dad initially was super concerned thinking. She was attacked on the street, you know, which is like the only definition of rape.

And when she told him what happened, he said, it would not have happened if you had not let him in your room, Katie any hung up on her. So her family's not not supporting her, the school has not been supporting her, her friends, even are trying to get her to meet up with him to quote unquote smooth things over. So at one point, she does meet with him in his dorm lounge where she asked him, did you hear me say no. And he says to her, I heard your father's angry that you're not a virgin anymore. I'll call him and tell him I'm a nice guy and you're in excellent hands.

And then he also said, you were a little stiff the first time round and we need some more practice and then you'll enjoy yourself a lot better.

And then his last comment, he goes, it's always tough for the virgins and she told the BBC that that last comment was the one that snapped me.

So she after that was like, this was not a mistake like this is a fucking guy who's going to like hurt more people.

“So she went to the school. They obviously curved all her requests for contacting law enforcement and they were like, no, you should do it administrative here.”

And then a straight of hearing at W at William and Mary. And then the dean of students told her quote, you could ruin his life and you see emotionally distraught. So you should go home and think carefully about this end quote. So the DA eventually told her she like did go to law enforcement, I guess, but a DA eventually told her that she had a 15% chance of winning the case because quote unquote forceable rape at that time included trying to fight off your attacker, which she did not do because

I think she was just in shock over what was happening. And as usual, like, yes, like we've talked about this a million times with other college episodes.

We've done this school encourages her to pursue her complaint through the college's judicial process, which she does.

This is the first ever sexual misconduct hearing at a college and William and...

So maybe it's the first one at William and Mary, but it says, the article I read said first ever sexual misconduct hearing.

And just to point out that William and Mary is the second oldest college of the country. So it's been around since the 1600s. So it's not, you know, a thing that's happening a lot. The hearing lasted over seven hours. And Kessner's attacker brought two legal aids with him. At the hearing, he admitted that she said no more than a dozen times. And he said, quote, eventually, she stopped saying no, and I knew I changed her mind and quote.

The next day, the dean calls her into his office and tells her, I want you to feel safe. The good news is we found him responsible. Oh, my gosh, amazing. Wonderful.

Don't worry. They tell her he can't come into your dorm for the rest of the semester, but he's not being kicked off campus and he's having essentially no other fucking punishments at all. I think he can't go into a lot any other dorms besides his own or something like that. I was reading, but If you're found guilty in a school thing, can't you then be found guilty in court? Like, no, because they're totally different, but like it's no, they're just different because like, it's like you're violating a code of conduct rather than the law, you know, like cheating at a test.

You wouldn't go to jail, but you could get thrown out of school. Well, this is what's crazy too. The dean also told her you to make such a nice couple and he really likes you. So maybe you could get back together.

“That's what the dean of students tells her and the administration later said they were mitigating circumstances that allowed this alleged rapist to stay on campus.”

Meanwhile, at this school having a sea average and being on academic probation can get you expelled.

You can get expelled for having a sea average and like fucking around and not doing your classes well, even though a sea is like average, right? So Katie, Cassner, is so furious when she walks out of this meeting with the dean that she was literally like, I wanted to write a letter to every student on the campus and tell them what happened to me. But then I realized that I didn't have the money for postage, so I sent it to the local paper and she talked them into using her real name, so the people would know that she was a real person.

And then the associated press picked up the story and it blew up and Katie was on the cover of Time magazine on June 3, 1991 with the headline date rape. And the term date rape existed prior to this. It had been discussed in the 1980s, but this case happening in 1991, as well as the case of the woman who accused William Kennedy Smith, JFK and RFK's nephew of raping her on a beach after they met in a Florida bar. Both of those things happened in 1991 and they are like collectively kind of what brought the phrase into the media and the cultural lexicon.

“So I think that's kind of why at the beginning of the episode when the guy was like, oh, what are you doing that? No means no stuff like I did your homework.”

It's like they're trying to show the nuance because before then a rape was something that happened in the street where an attacker comes up from behind you and you don't know and it's like, you know, it's not it was different than like the rape by an acquaintance or someone who knew you and maybe there had been romantic feelings between the two of you, but then you took it too far. So suddenly Katie Kestern gets on all of these talk show. She's on Larry King. She's on Oprah. She's talking to the press. She's doing a lot of interviews and you know, some of them asked her like, why didn't you fight back? They accused her of making women look weak.

She got tough for her at school and she briefly transferred to Cornell in 1991. But guess what? She returned to William and Mary later after her alleged attacker was suspended for attacking another student. So finally this fucker gets. And like the fact that his name is like not even in any of these articles like his name is not in the press. I found one article that weirdly started calling him Peter halfway through and it was a scam of a newspaper articles. I was like, why did that why are they just suddenly calling him Peter like, but I don't know if that's the guy's name or not or it was just like the paper being weird.

“But she this guy attacked someone else and then was finally suspended. I think at that point they were like, okay, we kind of get what you're up to now, dude. So he got suspended, which is a miracle to be honest.”

And Katie trained as a rape crisis counselor when she was back at William and Mary. She tried to warn people about places on campus where sexual assaults were happening or being reported. Like, she would stand outside of a place like a one woman protest and like hand out flyers and be like, hey, are you sure you want to go in there? People are getting raped in there. And everybody was just slamming doors in her faces. Like there was talk of HBO making a film about her and 2000 students signed a petition saying that she lied.

And guess who was leading the charge on that petition her rapist's current girlfriend. So that was pretty fun and she said she was getting it a lot from women. A lot of women were coming up to her and being like, you're devaluing my degree. People are only going to know our college for rape.

I'll be honest, I toured that college in like 1997 probably never heard a thi...

I think it was it ended up being just too far away from me. My friend, our mutual friend Sarah went there and had a wonderful experience. So she would say to these women, you know, rape happens everywhere. It's the whole system that's flawed, but like they didn't care. She was getting prank phone calls.

“I mean, she's like the RuPaul of date rape. Like she was doing this before anyone, even like what a brave fucking yeah, she didn't give a fuck and stood outside and went back to the school like the stitches.”

Yeah, and she like never has stopped. Like she was extremely stigmatized on campus. It was hard for to walk around, but in 1993 HBO did do a special about her called no visible bruises, the Katie corner story that was part of a series. They did called life stories families in crisis.

And then a few years after she came forward, William and Mary changed their policies. So students found guilty of sexual assault are required to be suspended.

She stayed at William Mary. She passed that. Like don't you feel like embarrassed that it wasn't it was a rule. Like I don't know if we weren't doing now. If you rape, you can't go to school, but that wasn't like it's so embarrassing. It's so embarrassing. Completely. And she stayed at William and Mary and she got and and graduated in 1994 and the same year she founded the educational organization campus outreach services. She also started when she at Cornell students helping others to understand trauma shout.

That was at Cornell and then she started at William and Mary sexual assault companions program and she eventually became the executive director of the take back the night foundation. So she's now like still like a speaker and she speaks about this stuff on campuses and all over the place like there was some when she wanted to come back to William and Mary. The student government voted to not fund it with student funds and then a feminist organization at the college like raise the money themselves to bring her to talk at the campus. This was like years later and like later in the 90s and I was like feminists.

And you know what she actually like I don't think even though she kind of helped popularize the term date rape. I don't think she like loves the term because she's like like is date rape different from rape rape because you get a dinner first like it's less bad like she said to the BBC.

“I'm not going to say which is worse being grabbed by a stranger off the road and you're lucky if you live or being out with someone who you think you can trust who has all the makings of your prince charming and having them disrespect you completely.”

If I had been raped on a street then I'd have been afraid of strangers, but if you're raped by someone you know, then you're afraid of everyone.

For me, the attack was just wrong. I didn't rate it to find it or judge it. I just thought that it was wrong. No one should ever go through what I did. And that's the end of the call. I get where she's coming from where it's like a different and she hates it and how is it different but I think at the time it probably was just like also for understanding because yes no one even wanted to think it's a thing.

So it's like you need to have these words so people just know it's real.

It's like, but even the thing of like, oh, I thought it convinced her but it's like even the thought that that sex sort of like all of it is just like so fucked and antiquated. I know, but like I remember this time of like my life in the 90s where I was like in high school and everybody like when I went to colleges on all my college tours.

“I mean, I think I toured 30 colleges because my mom was such a psychopath and like every tour there would be parents going, can you tell me about the crime statistics?”

And obviously that had just become a thing where that you had to do, you know, because of the clariact and then there was all I just remember all this stuff of like when I was in high school. And of like, oh yeah, date rape. It's like, yeah, but they went out to dinner. They were dating like this and that and then you started to hear about like Lorraine a Bob it and marital rape and like just changing the whole definition of like what it was from like some guy in like a hooded or like a mask coming over and like grabbing you.

And like grabbing you in a parking lot. It's like it's so much bigger than that. You know, which obviously I think this show. This is the sixth episode that the show's ever made. I think that's obviously something they wanted to get into really quick. You know, I'm really impressed with. This woman, Katie Custon, are you out of fine. So I hope that the schools are. They're not doing what they're supposed to be doing, but no one's really. You know, they're not and it's still the thing of like you're doing it for attention. And it's like she's dedicated her whole life to helping other people.

You know what I mean? It's like, I hate everyone involved and these people need to be punished. You don't get to it's how I keep talking about these podcasters and like Andrew Schulton, all these people where it's like no, you're a fool. You've just proven you're a fucking idiot.

Yeah, so stop talking.

Yeah, go fuck yourself. That's what I feel about this. You're an administrator. You're working on a school. You're judging the safety of people. You're a dean of students. You fuck up this bad. You don't you can't do the job.

Like I always think about nurses because it's like one dead patient in your fucked, right? Like if you're a nurse, you can't fuck up.

And all these motherfuckers, you can just tell a girl she should date her rapist and continue being a dean.

“Yeah, I think about that cop in Dorano who was like, well girl shouldn't be out at night.”

It's like, how are you the chief of police and charge of sex crimes and you think it's about what a girl wears at night and what time of day it is? And you're the person in charge. You shouldn't have the job. Yeah, like what the fuck? Yeah, and we talked about this in we talked about this in what was the one where we talked to the Brock Turner episode, but like, you know, like yeah, I can't hear one more time you could be ruining an innocent young man's life as if a sexual society is not in a society.

They're not in a society ruin a woman's life. They've probably raped before they're gonna rape again and you're letting them get away with it. And no one cares about those signs of abuse because our world is run by pedophiles who want to keep abusing. So it's like, of course, none of it will be taken seriously. This girl, it's like so it's so nuts that you would think this girl was doing this because she's embarrassed that she lost her virginity or something like what? This is gonna make her dad love her again or something. I mean, not that her dad's not loving her, but this is gonna make her dad like not be mad at her or support her dad.

Her dad's a piece of shit taking this on a press tour. Like it's yeah, well, you wouldn't have let her dad is a, yeah, the dad's a piece of shit.

“I mean, I feel like we're just repeating all the things we always say, but it's this thing of like, if it's not all men, then you should be able to let a man into your room.”

And if you are dumb to let a man into your room and that's an invite to be raped, then it is all men. You can't play both sides. That's, yes, exactly. You can't do that. Is it, do we have to be on guard at all times or are some of you say it's like, go fuck yourselves. And these young girls, it's like, we're thinking about these basketball players, it's like, who knows if these girls will ever be able to like, date, trust, like, go out. Well, and I've had conversations with men too about like, about them, like kind of realizing later in life that like begging for sex is like really not cool.

Like wearing a girl down is not good. That's not good, like good work. You know, that's not what you're supposed to be doing. But I won't mention he did rivalry. We can just move on to the guest. Okay. All right.

“But I think because a lot of the stuff that I look at with it, it's like, we've just never even seen a show with that much consent questions completely like being like, are you, do you want to still do this?”

Like, yeah, I'm trying to think of other places in the middle of that. Is this okay? You're seem like you're, you're mood just change. You got weird. You know, like, yeah, that there is condoms that it didn't ruin the vibes. Like, I'm trying to think of other. Like this girl has in, in the real crime, like this girl has already told you that she wants to wait till marriage, but you thought maybe she changed her mind and decided a pink rug on a floor was actually okay. Also, like. Oh, gross. And then why would they change because the schools and everyone let them, but it's like, I'm, because I want to think of like, there must be other shows that have consent.

It's like, not there's just like never. No, it's a, it's a, it's a consent Bible over there. He did rivalry.

Let's move on and cleanse the palate with our next guest. Don't go anywhere. [ Music ] Okay. Our guest today is an actor who you may recognize from such films as black robe and Jesus of Montreal. He can also be seen on TV shows Vikings and 24, as well as multiple stints on SVU. We have covered multiple episodes where he's been various long-haired evil guys.

But today, you know him as the perverted necrophiliaic professor James Henri Russo. Please enjoy our chat with Lotem Bluto. I mean, you're an, you're a SV legend, three episodes, evil in each one. They're down here, isn't it? Oh, yeah, season one season four season 15 and very, all bad guys all very different.

You know, always the bad person in America when you have an accent, you're the bad person.

Is that, is that it? Do you think it's just your, do you think it's your luxurious hair and your accent? Like that's it? Oh, right, let's go. No, I just happened. Just, you know, in some countries when here I started mostly by doing bad guys.

In England, I'm more like the fragile nice person.

And I do both now, depending. Yeah, strange, right? But it allows you to start from scratch every time you move countries. And I moved four countries so far in five cities.

So in each one, the first few jobs will identify you as the fragile person.

The angel in Russia, I do like healers and. Oh, interesting. That's very interesting. So you don't get cut glass. How many languages do you speak? I only speak too, but I do accents and from Russia to Italy.

Let's say those are mine. So when you, I know that we're having you on to talk about an episode of television that you made 26 years ago. So it's okay if you don't like remember things. No, I've been watching again.

And I frankly, I never seen it.

Oh, because I don't really look at my work and prefer to believe on might be good, right? Yeah, you don't want to know. Yeah, just like live it in your imagination. I killed it.

“Yeah, I remember Claude Johnson, the director and the writing and why was it like that?”

You know, it's interesting. So that's why I felt like maybe I should have a look for ones which I'll never do again. What do you thought? How did you feel when your thoughts watching it? I went out that way, but with a fuck. Yes, it was.

It was and it wasn't the time when I had done us in which I was shooting Chris. Because you had gotten this job, you can see you job. And they were not sure if it was going to fly or if it was just going to be a few episodes and then they'll pull it out. So he was not dead, so he could return to us. But during the episode, they were doing a lot of interviews because they were pitching your shots.

And they weren't sure. Mariska and him, they were defining their show. What is it going to be? Are we going to be talking more about the private stuff which they didn't want to? They wanted to identify the way they did. In fact, subjects of the month or the week even.

“And that's why, as we use soap opera because they use topics and subjects that just happen.”

And it's surprising, the writers must be like watching reading every article in the world of every paper. Yeah, sadly there is no shortage of projects. Hey, no unfortunate things. But that's why it's so important. And it's surprising how much people are still watching it.

And not only watching what's the new one of the week, but going backwards. Yeah, it stops sometimes and people will say, well, you were a shit. When I get talking about an instant show. Do people stop you? Has that happened to you? Oh yeah, I don't know.

I mean, I never done TV before.

So this was a new experience and I didn't realize what was on my bike on Broadway. And a truck driver pulled down his window and screamed at me. I didn't steal your thing. I just said, what is he talking about? And then I realized because in films, it's very different.

You don't have that kind of rapport.

“Yeah, I love that connection with it because I think, while someone was explaining to me,”

the people are watching it and they're home. So they feel relaxed when they're watching it. Therefore, you're part of their lives. I'm assuming that people who do soap, it's the same kind of rapport. They become part of their lives. And if there's no, when you do movies, people went to see this in the films in the cinema.

I used to be, not kind of an old dinosaur. Yeah, you would see the film in movies. And therefore, that was kind of a distance. People would talk to you, but with, you know, that was a distance with TV now. I'm on this, like, I'm on this, some lawn order has, like, its own Wikipedia, like fandom Wikipedia.

So I'm on your page for it.

And in this episode, sophomore genes, like, you really look like this innocent young guy in your little thumbnail.

“But it's the accent. I feel as why they made you the back guy.”

Because, like, here you look like you'd be the red herring, like the guy that's, like, that didn't do it. Right. But it'd have to be that. But it's also, he was a teacher. And he used this power of influence with all the students, but mostly the girls, because he was a targetting them. And he was playing that, which unfortunately still happens, maybe not teachers.

But I mean, people using their moments of power. And they played that line so well. And when you're a philosopher, like, is a teacher in philosophy, you managed to explain to a young person that it's done all over history. It's fine for an older man. It's a passage of, you know, they played that fucking line. And well, and a young woman would fall for that kind of appeal, because you're giving them your full attention.

They feel they're being seen. You compliment them. And of course, they're gorgeous because they're young.

“So he was, in a sense, when I was looking at the episode, the other day, I thought, is those going actually think, is guilty of doing anything about?”

Well, I think he does. It's very pumped. Because when he's in the interrogation room, like, what do you think? That was a cool shot. I love them all above you, and you're sitting. But it seemed like you realized what you did was, at least creepy.

I don't know. Do you like doing action? You like to get beat up? Do some stunts? What's your-- I haven't done only on TV.

I've done those things. Even now, it's always been more based on characters.

I did films about the second world war concentration camps. I'm going to say bent seems like an intense movie. Yeah, I didn't like the movie, but what the-- No. Great. It was a beautiful play. And we did the adaptation, and then I didn't like the results.

So what do you do when you hate the movie? Do you tell everyone, like, when you're at the screening, or you're like, "Yeah, what do you do?" You can't. Yeah, you're-- If you're in contracts, now what I-- What I do when it happens is I talk about the reason I made it, the importance of the-- Like in bent, I was talking about the-- the play that I'd seen 30 years before. And I thought it was a fantastic way of showing all the different stage of--

The worst-- the worst were the games, the political, the criminals, all of that were above. And so-- and the capital in the camps, how you were treated, and they were experimenting on people. So I thought the play was showing-- I mean, I'd seen Richard gear and David Duke's doing it. On Broadway was my first time in New York.

Wow. What shows? That's so cool. So you came to New York. The first show you saw was bent. On the first week, I would come to New York and see nine shows and seven days.

You love it. You love the air. Yeah, I want to-- on the time, I was, what, 19. I wanted to do theater in Broadway.

You know, as I was the king, you never would like.

But do you remember other shows you saw that week? The first show I saw, the first one was Swiny Todd. Oh, and I couldn't. I didn't know I thought I'd moving to New York. It took nine years to get the green card and then the citizen shows.

“So it cost me an arm and a leg. You want it for a buck?”

But I did it then and I was living in London by the time I got to my green card. I was too much of a start. Point is, I would go to New York and London to see all the shows that I could see. The films I could see everywhere in the world, but the theater. And it was, I saw Swiny Todd in years later, I was working Marange of the Linesburg.

Oh, maybe we're stuck in money in the middle of the night shooting a thing.

And I saw you and I didn't know I'd peaked.

I'd seen the best forever. It was great. And that and chorus line. I'd seen chorus line, same week. Two days later.

So I thought, oh, I'm moving to New York. This is amazing. And then there was nothing for two days. I can't.

“Do you remember your chat with Angela Linesberry?”

No, I see. We actually sang the show. Oh my gosh. We started singing. Not to worry, not to worry, not to worry, not to worry, not to think.

Yeah. And so, I was just fun. I've seen her in Swiny Todd on video, not live. But yeah, it was lucky you. It was the first time I saw a humanities teacher showed it to me in school.

Like it was such a huge thing.

You know, like when you are doing a film for $3 million was a huge budget at the time.

People would make movies. I mean, just a lot of trouble. I think the budget is $3 million. And they say huge, 90 locations. When I went to Miami to do a musical, that's for getting my advice.

They had more than that in one episode. My costume was made in Italy. They scratched and scrapped one boat. And nobody could. It's fine.

We're doing a film. It was the Golden Age. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was so surprising.

“And so to see a show like this, when you don't,”

the stage in person, the stage started moving. And he was the size of a full studio. That is incredible. And I mean, it's five minutes when you work. I mean, I've been lucky enough to work with a lot of people that were in dreams list.

But look at the Olympics right now. The pressure on all these young people. When you're starting and you're being put on a pedestal. It's very scary because you can't move on this space. Yeah, you know, before.

And people put you in your 20 years old. You're starting your life. It's a lot of pressure. And now with the social networking. You have confidence all from all over the world.

And it's in gugnito. Yeah, you don't have to tell us that. When I started, you were destroyed by the reviews.

I'd say, and we always know the bad reviews by heart.

“And the compliments were put them aside.”

So, but you knew the people who were putting you down. Now, it's anonymous. And they can say whatever. And then. So next, I'm saying that for women.

I'm saying that for men. You look at the way I saw beautiful film this year with Scals搞. It was called. Did you see? So yeah.

You know, the sentimental value. The other stars guard. There's a lot of them. You got it. Yeah.

Six of them out there. I worked with three already. But you're looking at the way an actor and acts. And when you're getting emotional, you don't have to push. You just take it and it's in your face.

Here, I'm looking at some people who have been put. I worked with machine for instance. We saw there's so much pressure. And he's trying. He knows art.

And I was doing this play with him. And after 10 minutes of trying something different. You could feel the audience. Was not into it. And then he did.

And it was out. But you know in. You are. You have to replay yourself. And even for I'm saying for a man as well as for a woman.

But you're being compared to what you were in the Godfather. And you're in myth. More of a myth than an actor of this thing. Um, do you. Um, that circling back to your.

SVU time. I mean, do you have any memories of like being on those sets like and. Christopher Maloney throwing you around a cell or whatever. But I heard Chris when I did this scene. I hit my head and his.

Oh, he was the one you said.

Let me do it. Just follow.

He knew exactly how to do it.

Oh, okay.

“But you're trying to act your character and.”

And never pays. Uh, and that kind of scene. The person who's the choreographer or she had a stunt coordinator or. And in this case, he knew it. How to grab me or to do.

When we did it this way. It pays better on camera. It looks more real. You're trying to do it because you want to be the actor. You know, you're fucking up.

Let you got to let somebody else lead sometimes. Yeah. The orchestra. You didn't ask to be stage in a way that we're doing this for the camera. Uh, no.

Yeah. Yeah. What are you working on right now? What are you excited about? I don't know.

I'm not working at the moment. When you get old. I'm 68. Yeah. You get just days when well.

People don't think of you so much.

“I didn't movie not long ago when I'm playing.”

Uh, serial. He's not made a serial killer. But he has issues. He's hard killer. And he's killed 30 people for the month.

What is that Canadian sniper? I can know. Yeah. Yeah. Yes.

Oh, my God. Yeah. I can't believe you work with Francois just last just two years ago. Well, so it's great, Doctor. Yeah.

Wait. I mean, as a Canadian, are you excited for heated rivalry? And what? Well, I'm not showing any. I worked with Jacob Tierney.

It was the creator. Yeah. He was the director and director. And when he was an actor. Thirty years ago.

And uh, when I was looking at the production value and the way the camera works. Yeah. Now I have the sounds. For me, the the most beautiful moment was the guy who plays the Russian. Yeah.

Uh, when he asks is fine, I'm going to tell it to you.

“What what my life is and Russia in Russian.”

So I you feel free to tell me how you feel. And he declares his love in his life.

I thought that I've never seen in a movie.

So I have a original way of telling that moment. So yeah. I'm glad. I'm very happy for Jacob. Now they're going to have so much money.

I don't know Jacob Tierney at all. I've never heard of him before this. But like, I kind of just trust this person. I feel like he did such an incredible job. And I read the book.

And just the way he combined the scenes and got so much of the vibe and was able to. And the actors like relay so much of the inner thoughts of the book in it. Like, I just kind of trust this guy fully. You too, because frankly, when you're trying to piss your show. And as you approach and all the big streaming companies, they wanted to change.

You don't want it to keep it slow for the love relationship. But that's like not the story. It's like that's the whole point of the story. Like why would I need to refer to stick to his gun and do it for less money. And they sold it the way he wanted to do it.

And that's fabulous. I'm proud of him because it's very tempting, certainly. Like, okay.

If we get into your project, we'll give you a million dollar more per episode.

But you got to change the character. You got to change this. You got to change that. Bring down the the soft point aspect of it. Apparently, that was one of the things.

And he said, well, fuck off. Yeah. But it's the story I'm telling. And that's something we've all lived in the industry. When the producers come or if you have in my case, I've done mostly films,

whether we have three or four corporate auction. And if you don't have a director, that is very strong and stuck with as I do. What was his name? Fuck. The best movie I've made called Blackwell.

And it was director who did writing these days. Bruce, Bruce. No, Bruce. But we were, I was the corporate auction for England. He was Australia.

And we shot in Canada. And we had the rights for the books for Canadian. So the amount of pushing and, oh, make it more romantic, make it more.

Bruce never gave up.

Always so fuck off. And doing the story.

Dude, I didn't know this guy's name.

He's made so many things I like. Oh, my God. Bruce. Well, no. Perhaps the heart.

I love and I love double jeopardy. Yeah. He's done everything. Yeah. And I was so, I was in London.

“I was doing a play where I'm a male prostitute or killed a boyfriend.”

And he came to say, and I had him on the lock for 35 minutes. That play changed my life in England. That's how I got 12 films. So Bruce came to see her show.

He was editing a movie at shot in Africa.

And he approached my agent and said, "I want to work with our guy and the producer's wanted a star." And I was fucking unknown. I was hooked for that week because I won the star during that playman. That's it.

And he said, "I don't know how to pronounce his name because he's too weird. But I want him." So I went and met our guy in a pulp with his two kids were present. His sister, his girlfriend, and the other filmmaker who was his brother-in-law. The noise of a pot at noon in London.

Imagine. That's why I met this guy. He's telling me that he wants me to do the play. The film. Because he saw me in the play.

And I love your silence. He said, "Oh fuck you.

I'm on the line of 45 minutes.

I love his silence. I love them, immediately." And he was, we spent six months researching this film together. And he wanted to do that movie for nine years. And nobody would give him the rights.

And then he did driving this day as he and he won the Oscars. I mean, three Oscars gone for that film. And he called it producer. So he said, "Okay, might be going up now." That's it.

And I'm like into this guy. Okay. So what was it like working in Russia? What were those projects? I did a National Hollands film.

I'm playing a healer. We have the healers. Ballies based on the real story of a guy who has a child, could touch people and help them. They are healed their their disease. And we shot that in Poland and in Russia.

“And it's, but that's what I was talking about.”

The value of our work is that. I remember one year, one day we were shooting. It was 5.30 in the morning. And a huge amphiterium. That was probably 2,000 extras.

Wow. And we were practicing it. And I was doing my fourth person healer. And he said, "There goes an extra. He was paid to do a show."

But in spite of it, he said, "Oh, no, I'm an alcoholic. Can you do something?" There was a part of it that you want to believe. What if the comments of people on the street and in SVU? I come back to that.

Is that you're working with someone? You're playing an asshole. Or someone who used other people for his own benefit. And you have people who are there who tell you what happened to me. I've been raped.

Then boys and girls. But I was in love and I was 19. And so you hear those stories. No matter how much you prepare, I'll give you a listening.

I'm listening to that. Someone who tells you. And he's still broken hearted. 35 years later. I see.

Yeah. So I want to happen to you. I have, unfortunately, no, it's in my family. My sisters.

“The subject that's very important because you're being detrained.”

And betrayal is the thing that you, that will accompany you during your entire life. You never let go. You can forgive. You can understand.

You can excuse.

You can do all kinds of therapies that might help.

But at the end of the day, it affected your relationship, your trust. I don't know what you're talking about. My sister's been a bit of the way they, you're not lucky and you don't find someone who understands and give you the hug.

But you need. Well, when you're an artist, it's different because whatever bruise I have, I use. And I share it. And people will come and I don't think we can change.

The world never. Well, it can make them feel. Give them a hug. You're not alone. And that's what I'm sure.

Like SVU, that's why it's popular. It's because it takes an individual story and said, unfortunately, I'm so sorry. But you're not the only one. Wow.

“I mean, our first French Canadian, I think, that we've had.”

Our first connect to heated rivalry. Oh, yeah. You know, him and Fran Sua working together. Yeah, we're bringing the, we're bringing all the genres together. I mean, it was in.

He's been in three episodes. Now he's on the pot. And I'm happy about it. Yeah. And to be able to do a season one episode, it's all pretty perfect.

And rape is bad. Racism sucks. Necrophilia is wrong. I just think it's, I just always love doing a.

I just always love doing a first season episode.

I love what the show was doing in like out the gate. You know, and I think it's kind of. And the people that found the body, like she was about to get raped. Yeah. Yes.

It's like that layers of rape. They're making such a commentary.

“I like this is how pervasive this stuff is on campus.”

And yeah, like, and I really liked reading about the woman who Katie Kester, who like started the who basically got the term date rape, like put into the lexicon. I mean, not officially, but like kind of brought it to prominence and started all these organizations. And I, you know, I don't know. And I thought her story is like a story that so many women have gone through.

And SVU was like first season. We're not even tackling just the bad guys with the knives and the alleys. Like we're tackling the guy that you think is like the good great guy. You know, that isn't. You know, not that the professor we think is a good great guy.

But that's, you know, like initially you're like. The original story is like, is that. But, you know, fucking creepy professors, man. The schools, protecting rape, pedophiles run everything. The country, they're eating babies and they're letting your children be raped at college.

I don't know what to tell you. The eating babies part, you think is real? 100%. Eating babies. They ate, they ate enslaved people.

Why, why would they change? They're all in bread motherfuckers. Yeah, slave owners ate people. Why wouldn't these people eat people?

“Why, I just don't know where they're getting like they're just ceiling babies and eating them.”

Yeah. Yeah, they're trafficking. I'm just thinking it through. Well, because, and that's, yeah, like ice is definitely trafficking children. Uh, Rosie spelled out ice out on our refrigerator and refrigerator magnets.

She's really dedicated to the cause. They went to a thing at the zoo where she had to put one of her dreams. And she put for ice to get out of LA. She's really, really marching for the cause. She's got to care about our neighbors and she's on that.

Yeah, she does, she does care. Well, I saw that you had to write on your signs because some of your shit was being defaced. Somebody keeps, okay, so we haven't talked about this on the pod. I have a sign outside my house that says ice and military out of our cities. Like, and the occupation, whatever.

I got it from a organizer in my area. It's been in front of my house for months. And somebody keeps coming by and just fucking with the word out. Like, they just keep scribbling over it in Sharpie. Trying to scratch it out with keys.

They put a sticker over it. And they just keep doing the same thing. And I keep peeling the sticker off with like, Google on, I keep taking acetone to get rid of the Sharpie. Like, I just keep cleaning it.

And finally, after the last time they just did it,

I put a note up that was like, this is my property. I can put up whatever sign I want. And if you don't stop, like, and if you keep defacing it, I'm going to keep cleaning it. And if you take the whole sign, I'll get a new fucking sign.

Like, this is my house, like, leave my get a hobby, I wrote.

I said, get a hobby and stop defacing private property.

“And then Rosie wrote, why do you disrespect our sign from kids?”

Hers is more powerful. She knows less words, less words are best. She's got word economy. Have they left the sign alone since? They haven't, there has been nothing to the sign yet.

And it started a couple conversations with people walking by, too. They're like, that's crazy. Why are people doing that? But, yeah. Can you imagine being like, I want to militarize the L.A. And I want people to snatch stuff the streets.

It's like, do you hear yourself? Yeah. And even if you are, like, I don't know.

It's never like, I'll walk past a house as like Trump signs.

And I'll maybe give the house the middle finger. Like, I won't, like, draw on the Trump signs. Like, I don't know. Why can't really, I would take that, I would. You would take it.

You would take it. Yeah. Yeah. But it's also, like, I mean, you would not believe. Like, I'm in, like, a highland park group on Facebook.

That's got, like, 20,000 people in it. And there are tons of people. And that's, this is, like, L.A. A very Latino neighborhood. This is, like, people that, like, that have lived here for decades

are on there going, yeah, get everybody out. Get them all out. Get everybody that's illegal out of here. Like, there's people, like, people with, like Latino last names, too. That are, like, yep.

I love ice.

I love what they're doing.

It's, like, nuts. I mean, there's a lot of people, I mean, those people usually get, like, shout it down. But there's a lot of really vocal crazy people everywhere. And they're fucking with my sign.

And Rosie's not having it. So should we get to what was this repack do? Yeah. Okay. Let's get to that.

I was just thinking about cannibalism still. If you were wondering, oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. Your eyes went a little bit off into the distance. And I wasn't sure.

Like, what, you know, I can spin a wheel. It's like, what is she thinking about? Is it heated rivalry? Is it cannibalism? Is it tailored?

Like, I don't know. It could be a lot of things. So cycle, yeah. Yeah. Like, getting locked out last night.

Talk about order. My laboo, my laboo and Prada. Oh, my god. Have you never seen it? I don't think I've seen that one.

Sydney got this for me for my birthday. Wait. The little Prada clothes are cute. That's cute. It's so cute.

No. Because it's like cannibalism's like the, it's just not the, they, they poison the air, the water, the food. They make money off, like, eating a person isn't that, like, how much further away from raping a child to eating a child? Like, I don't know.

Yeah. I guess I'm just like, are we thinking they're doing it for the adrenal chrome or whatever that the Q and on people think that they're doing it for or that they're just doing it to be powerful and like eat somebody.

“I think because it doesn't say, I don't think it tastes good.”

I don't think like human. It's like, yeah, I don't know. I think there's just pissing on each other and killing kids and eating it. Like, I don't know. Did you ever watch squid game?

No, you know. I don't do dystopia. I know. I know. But like in squid game.

There, there's like, I watch Tracy Katia watch squid game. Yeah. There's like a part where all the rich people are like in a room. And it's like they're watching this because it's like they, there's literally like you can't.

They've gotten to the height of like what can sort of like turn them on or thrill them, you know. And so that's like what they're like watching people kill each other and stuff.

But I always think about that scene in squid game when I think about these like high level like Epstein,

file type people that are just like hiding everything and running the world. But let's text the billionaires. Okay. Let's move on to what would sister back do. This is our weekly segment where we direct you to an organization and article a documentary film.

Something to give you more information about what we talked about. And this week, we wanted to point you to take back the night. This organization's mission is to end sexual violence in all forms including sexual assault, sexual abuse, trafficking, stalking, gender harassment and relationship violence. And to support survivors in their healing journeys.

Which is reading Whitney Rose to me right now, healing journey. But it was founded in the 70s.

“It began with the ad vacation for the essential right of women to walk alone at night without fear of being raped harassed or otherwise harmed.”

And Katie Kessner, who I talked about today, is the executive director of the organization. So just a shout out to them and for more information to get involved or to donate head over to takebackthenight.org. That will be in our show notes linked as usual in our Instagram stories as usual today. The day the episode is released and then saved forever on our Instagram page in our WSPD highlights. And next week, we will be doing hot house from season 10 episode 12.

We never gone and we wish you the best. Thanks for listening. Thanks guys. See you next week. Bye bye.

That's messed up as an exactly right production. If you have compliments you'd like to give us or episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email.

That's messed up pod@gmail.

Listen to that's messed up on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

“Follow the podcast on Instagram at that's messed up pod and follow us personally at Caraclank and at Glitter Cheese.”

As always, please see our show notes for sources and more information.

Thank you so much to our senior producer, KCO Brian, and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain. And to our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cautner. And to Henry Capersky for our theme song and Carly Jean Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers, Georgia Hardstark, Karen Kilgarif, Danielle Kramer, and everybody at exactly right media. Done!

I'm Clayton Neckard.

“In 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor.”

But here's the thing.

Bachelors fans hated him.

If I could press a button and rewind it all I would. That's when his life took a disturbing turn. A one night stand would end in a courtroom. The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract.

Agreed to date me, but I'm also suing you.

This is unlike anything I've ever seen before.

I'm Stephanie Young. Listen to love trapped on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast "Doubt" the case of Lucy Leppby. We unpack the story of an unimaginable tragedy that gripped the UK in 2023. But what if we didn't get the whole story?

Out of space at first. The moment you look at the whole picture of the case, Colach.

“What if the truth was disguised by a story we chose to believe?”

Oh my god, I think she might be innocent. Listen to doubt the case of Lucy Leppby. On the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When you feel uncomfortable, what do you put on? Biggie.

You put on biggie when you feel uncomfortable? So I want to get confident. This is DJ Heaster Prince, music is therapy. A new podcast from me, a DJ and licensed therapist. 12 months, 12 areas of your life.

Money, love, career, confidence. This isn't just a podcast. It's unconventional therapy for your entire year. Listen to DJ Heaster Prince, music is therapy. On the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Transcript