2026 NFL QB Rankings, the Villain Dodgers, MLB Trade Deadline Lessons, and SummerSlam 2026 With Mina Kimes, Billy Gil, Anthony Dabbundo, and David Shoemaker

>> The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to by the ringer podcast network.

I put up a new rewatchable as a Monday with a Karate Kid Part II. It's a Karate Kid II or Karate Kid Part II. I can't even remember. Me and Cobran had a fantastic time. And as I said before,

we really had to do this just to pave the way for Karate Kid III. So you can check that out. We have a lot of good movies coming up for the rest of this month.

“And I think we're doing two episodes next week.”

It's looking like the Italian job and about last night. The Roblobe did me more about last night. So that's on Netflix. Italian job is on every streamer so you can go check those out. But I think those are going to be the next two and the both can be.

Next week, we have an absolutely loaded podcast coming up for you. I want to do quarterbacks with being a kind. I meant to do it last week, but we're doing it this week. I wanted to go through all my QB points system and a lot of good quarterback questions. Tying into the 2026 NFL season.

So this is like the first real summer pot.

We're moving into NFL mode. I'm in week four of prep feeling good. After that, Billy Gill, Anthony Dubundo. We wanted to talk about the baseball trade deadline. And one of the weirdest penit races ever.

Even my dog's barking about it in both leagues. I've announced the soccer team. I announced by soccer team on that. We talked about a whole bunch of goofy stuff. And then last but not least.

“David Schumaker has new book out about a Hulk Hogan that you should get.”

But we talked about summer slam last weekend and the new Hulk Hogan book. And how we're feeling about how weird the hoaxers last 20 years were. And why he wrote the book. So that is on next. We're in tip break.

Take a break. Pearl Jam. And then. Minicums.

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AI cloud ERP for any size business. And then. Alright, her friend Minicons is here. She's done a lot of ringer stuff lately. She was on the hit free watchables.

She was on the fantasy football show as they finish their rankings of the hot QBs. I guess Jalen Hertz just ran away with this was name and close. Well, spoiler alert. Because some folks might not listen to it. Although, I feel like at this point anyone other than Hertz would have been a big upset.

He does the crown. He has Jimmy G's crown. It was easy. It was not controversial. There was really no debate about it.

A kind of like Patrick Mahomes circa 2020. We were all just like, yes. So that's fine. But number two. Was.

Device contentious. Who was number two? Who won? Okay. I guess I'll spoiler alert.

Don't get mad. If you haven't listened to it. Josh Allen over Joe Burrow. I was surprised. Interesting.

I'll have to listen to it. I'm sure I'll have thoughts at some point. This is a great topic though. Because one of my theories with quarterbacks, which we're about to talk to. A talk about quarterbacks charisma.

A lot of times they're handsome. They're just the coolest guy in the room. And it feels like part of the job. I try to rank the quarterbacks every year. We're trying to go through and I ask you to go through this with me.

Because I have this weird point system that I rank the teams with. And in the point system, quarterbacks go from one point to nine. It's the only position that's even over five because they're that important. But I had some before we go through the rankings. I had some some quarterback questions for you.

And no particular order. The QB you're buying for 2026. Even as everyone else or most people are selling. The guy you just can't quit. This is an easy one for me.

“I think because I feel like everybody's overreacting to the postseason.”

Not Drake may because I don't think anyone with an actual brain is selling Drake may. CJ Straud I think people have gotten way too low on. Mike Sando just put out his quarterback tears. Which is great. I wish to get out of the airy surveys.

You know, coaches around Lee Straud was like 21. I think below 42 year old Aaron Rogers. And I understand that it was one of the more.

But if you go back to the actually the regular season.

And not only looks statistically. Straud during the regular season was like a nine through 12 rank quarterback in most metrics. Yeah. But then if you really dig into it. His circumstances were a trotace.

Zero run game offensive line was as bad as it's been. The offense was completely hamstrung by the lack of an offensive line. Injuries constantly skill players in the postseason. No nickel Collins play caller kind of still finding his legs. So I'm young receivers.

Young receivers kind of an incomplete group missing tight end. So I just think he's gotten way too much flack. Mainly because I feel like the postseason over reaction and then people saying, Well, he's not as good as he was that rookie season and kind of hanging onto that. He's the one I struggled with the most where to put him for all the reasons.

And we talked about this on your part because I'm really bullish on Houston, especially with the continuity and defense. But you got when I look at why I quarterback had a bad season.

“Usually it's like, did your offensive line fall apart?”

Was your play caller a little shaky? Did you have a run game? What was up with your receivers? He was like, Oh, for four. I mean, they had the worst run game in the league.

Or I like Montgomery. I don't think he's a superstar, but Montgomery is at least better. Their receivers are going to be a year older. Tank dealt was awesome for them. We'll see if he can come back from one of the worst.

The injuries of all time. Offensive line is still. It's a little better, but it's not. I wouldn't put it. It's probably a bottom six or seven offensive line still.

So that would be the question. And then it seems like people love piling on him. Like you've been that video last week at him walking in.

It got like a 12 million views and everything.

Yeah, and it was like, look at this guy. No swag at all. So I don't know. I was trying to put myself in January if something happened. Like something good.

Like the Texans being really good and CJ Stroud just being good. And we're looking back and we're like, Oh, yeah, we should have seen that. So I'm open to it with that said he was awful last year. So to me, he's to me, he's the highest ceiling basement guy. His building is like 40 stories.

And you can get me to the 35th floor in his building. Or you can bring me down like the bottom 10 floors. And I don't know where he's going to land. It's a little bit of a risky buy for me because of everything you said. Like they remade the offensive line again.

Okay, it's different. It should be better. And I do think like Braden Smith. They had if there's just competent players. Maybe Irserian let the left sides a little bit better. But it's like he said.

It's not it's probably still a bottom of the league. Bottom half at least unit. So the idea that he's going to be in like these dramatically better circumstances. I am a little apprehensive of. I just think people are way too low.

“And I think that we do that generally with postseason.”

Yeah. Like I seen that with Bryce Young, a little bit who was awesome in that Rams playoff game. After being really up and down over the regular season. And everyone just keeps referencing that one game. I feel like generally and I know this is a hot topic for you with New England.

Everybody only remembers the last two games. It's all or have just completed an issue. Like we do with Justin Herbert where he's terrible in the playoffs. And it's nine months later. It's like, did he make the playoffs last year?

I remember. Give me the QB that we are collectively. Most likely to quit on in 2026. Last year was Calamary. Okay.

Most likely to go. We're all just like we're out. We're completely out. I mean, there's a lot of options here at the Atlanta ones. I think this could be it for too.

I've already grown up. Okay. So you want like somebody who's a little bit divisive. I can give you some candidates. Okay.

Give me the candidates. I'll pull up my list. Well, there's the there's Malik Wilson on Miami. Oh, well, I mean, I'm sorry. It will be well.

Well, this is a horrible situation. Right. But there was a different crazy for him last year. I know. I was like, oh, my God.

They might have got a super. We might decide after four games. Uh. Jackson Dart. Ooh.

“I think it's one where I feel like there's.”

There's a lot of a hot air coming behind him. But I'm not sure. He earned any of it. And I could also seem just getting hurt three games because he runs around like a maniac. Daniel Jones would be another one who really hasn't been good.

It's whole career and then had two good months before he got hurt, basically.

But you look at a stats and I don't know. Plus coming off from major injury. And then here's the one I was really looking at is his Daniels. Like if Daniel. If he stinks again this year, he's told her is brittle.

Like if he has another brittle Daniel season. Do we just be like, whoa, this is our G3 all over again. Yeah. Well, I think he did something wise, which is most of his quarterbacks you picked are in. Kind of if he situations.

And so they're not going to be buoyed necessarily by their surrounding cast. I mean, Jones, you could argue is the best, but Alec Pierce. They're they chose him to be the widest ever one. Let Pittman walk. He's hurt.

I mean, it sounds like. Right. He thinks almost 60% as much as they flowers. So I mean, he makes a ton of money. I like the flowers.

That's 35 billion a year. That's just how much like what did I say? 35 is the new 25. Ask Leo. That's an insane contract.

Oh. And we could mention as Jaylin hurts. Well, who I feel like people are really ready to. Yeah. Toss aside as in a lead quarterback like this, like if it doesn't work out this year,

after the AJ Brown trade.

Well, he'll always have the ringer hot quarterback.

Maybe he's got nothing else to play for. Um, okay. Well, you gave me a bunch of good names.

“I think the angels is one to monitor because I am a little apprehensive of that situation.”

Like Terry McLaren's, you've had receiver one after that. Major galac of weder see for depths. I think the offensive line is pretty good. But you play caller first time. Below average running backs.

Could we say average below average somewhere with somewhere in that. They're like Bill. But you know, the offense when they talk about it. It's not totally clear to me how it's all going to come together. It's so different from the Cliff Kingsbury offense or the Ben Johnson style under center.

You know, condensed formation. So I just kind of think it might be a little bit. There might be a little bit of growing pains there. Jones is an odd one because Daniel Jones. All off season.

I've been hearing. I came back week one. They did the contract. And I'm thinking Achilles, like every quarterback who seems to come back from the injury is taken forever to your injury.

But those guys were old and he's young and athletic. And everybody's saying he looks to save. So I guess the science has evolved. The one thing I'll say about him is I was just pulling his numbers. He's I was doing an ABC South review.

You mentioned like two months. And that's some important distinction because he was like the best quarterback in football for eight weeks. But then if you split it and look at the five games. I started to really go off the tracks a bit. So I think that's one where I do think.

I do think he's absolutely a competent starting quarterback.

But I do think probably what we saw in the first two months this season wasn't.

You know what we're going to see moving forward. QB that you personally mean of times make the most excuses for. Everybody knows his Lamar. Still. Yeah.

So we planned on doing this two days ago. And I didn't know the sandal thing was coming out today. And there was some interesting that the Lamar section in that piece was was pretty interesting where people are basically like. This is this is the fork in the road here for him as a superstar because his running stats are way down. And if if he's just not going to move around in the same way than.

Then are you a top five, QB anymore.

“I think well, okay, so there's a good distinction.”

I actually thought there was a little bit of nuance to some of the comments I read where someone said he's still a very good pocket pass here. So I think we've moved past the idea, at least anyone who should be taken seriously, that Lamar Jackson has to have, you know, a very strong Russian component to his game. And to otherwise he's not a very good passer. I think the question is, is he in the lead like top three guy without that. And I think that's actually a fair debate to have in the because of the way his rushing ability.

It changes the way defenses play him and opens up opportunities and I think that's completely fair. But I would also counter. His wide receiver one is five foot nine. I know I just didn't.

Thirty five million dollars a.

Five or nine also feels generous. I looked that up. I was like, really? I thought I, I don't know. I might have to get a picture next to him next time in Baltimore for reference. Oh, as you know, I love nothing more than heights with athletes and actors. A true passion. A true, sir. Are you? No, I love it. There's nothing.

I love any any famous person. I love trying to stand next to you to get a real feel. And there's some people like there. Like, affect doesn't, affect's tall. He doesn't lie about it.

Well, but, okay, you know, I'm sneaky tall. I know, you're, you're in the sneaky tall all stars. It's the Chuck close to been all stars. It's because of the perspective, right? Because I worked with six foot five and six foot six.

Sure, whatever. That's a Steve Nash on another one. You think Steve Nash is like five five five five. Yeah. I, I, I mentioned this to the ringer.

The fancy guys, Brock Perty is not like in real life. If you met him on the street, you'd say that's a tall man. Yeah. But because he plays in the NFL, he looks tiny. He's six or two, right?

Right. Kind of carvings like this, too, where he might even be like a half inch taller than me. But he plays point gardening and think of him as a little guy. And he's just not.

“I wasn't. I think Zafelara's is actually just really.”

He might be five. So a lot is still your guy. Yeah. Yeah. I, I just think.

Yes.

The unique skill set, the throwing ability.

I've seen so many games where he's just been so electric as a passer. The one where he went toe to toe with Matthew Stafford lives rent free in my mind. Because those quarterbacks can't provide me of each other with their throwing style. Yeah. And I just think, you know, I'm all like, I, I, so while I do feel, whether he has diminished

rushing ability is worth discussing it's pertinent. We saw that last year. He was not as willing to run and also had a lot of trouble avoiding sex. That matters. But I do think he was a little banged up. And I think he'll be fine.

The question is, is that just two is now a little banged up every year or a lot banged up for. I mean, I think it's fair.

“I think it's why him and Joe Burrow are in a different year from”

the homes in Alan for right now, the injuries. Do you think there will be a QB resurrection this year along the lines of Sam Darnell's bigger Mayfield and Jared Goff in the past? And a week of Daniel Jones.

And a week of Daniel Jones and the likely suspect candidate here is

Calamara in the Minnesota Vikings. Yes, he is the most, most likely one. I don't really, there's no one else who really jumped out to me as a contender other than Kyler. It sounds like he's winning the job in camp.

I know it's been a little bit up and down. That's another one where I think it could look a little bit if he early on as him and Kevin O'Connell kind of feel each other out. But the thing about Kyler and you know this is like even in his like, quote, down years and everything that's happened since, you know,

his like, I think 2020 was when he was being talked about as if he can't get it. He's been statistically an average quarterback since then. There's been times where he's been higher. He's been inconsistent, but it all nets out to like average. And that's such an obvious improvement from what they had last year.

JJ McCarthy was zooming with him every day going through the offense, getting ready for next season. That's my favorite.

The Sandok had a quote about McCarthy.

He had some pretty good.

“I think the quote was playing football looks hard for him.”

It was one of the defensive coaches said, which was maybe the meanest quote. It was a really tough hit for all the Michigan people. I know. Yeah. Cause all of them are like, you out of anyone will do a JJ McCarthy.

He's got it. He's got the intention. He passes all the things you talk about. And then he came out and was just brutal. Michigan fans.

It happened like the most tribal college football. They follow their guys into the NFL and stick with them. I found. But yeah, Kyler is a good one. I think I'm really interested in seeing like where the deep ball went with Kyler.

Because you remember when he was younger, like it was so good. Early in his career and the neck kind of went away. But I think some of that had to do with the wider receivers or lack their of. This is an offense in Arizona that ran through McBride, the tight end. So I'm curious curious to see also Justin Jefferson who I maintain like.

Maybe the one of the most psychologically impressive performances of the 20 25 season was him not losing his mind over the course of the year. Great leader. That should be an award the Larry Fitzgerald award for. I'm just completely screwed by this quarterback situation, but I'm going to be a pro.

Yeah, I it's. I mean, especially given like the nature of the wide receiver position and the stereotypes around it. To see him like we got to which is. Yeah. And he was a perfect.

I get some drops who want to. But I think he deserves to done a credit. And I'm interested in seeing if like Kyler can kind of get the deep ball back with. Addison Johnson. I'm completely out.

Just so just say no. You're completely out on Kyler. No, no chance. I just think he's had best of 500 quarterback. I just don't see.

But this is a team that was 500 last year with JJ McCarthy. I just don't see it. You're top four. Bleakest quarterback situations. In order from most bleakest to fourth bleakest.

What is the worst quarterback situation? I can give you the options easy easy one for one. Yeah. Just know offence of line. No receivers and.

I've actually improved a little bit. But I would love to go right into the man on the street in any city. Outside of Miami with the receivers. For in Miami. And as people.

To name to Miami dolphins receivers. Billy Gill's coming on after you. I'm going to ask him if he can name the wide receiver crew. Yeah. It's insane.

It makes me wonder. And it's so weird, Bill, because like.

“I think everything they're doing kind of makes sense, right?”

Like they ripped it up. Clip. Rebuilding. They bring in the entire green bay. Half Lee and the GM.

Everybody gets it. Exactly. Well, I feel like they signed him. To like a middle fast quarterback contract. I just didn't really make sense to me.

Like if I'm him and this is my shot to be a starter.

I don't know Atlanta. I just feels maybe. I would have gone to Atlanta. Yeah. I just don't get it.

So mainly offer twice as much money as everybody else. Listen, I agree with you that Miami finally did the right thing. But I also can't congratulate a team for. Autobling after one of the worst contracts. It's been a while since I was in the world.

It was a complete disaster. It turned out even worse than everyone thought. And now you're like, okay, now we've got it. Now now we've got our shit together. It's like, do you?

You just did the two thing two years ago. When he was already on like six concussions. All right. So you have Miami one who's too. Uh, I'm tempted.

Bye. They're not going to rate as fans are going to like this. Raiders. Wow. They're why I receive a one.

It's tough. Yes.

I know the answer is Brock Bowers, but like at a certain point,

you also need what receivers. And there's anything about the Raiders. Like a nice of tight ends. Lots of tight ends to throw to a lot of short ones over the middle.

“But how would you stack the Raiders offensive line last year?”

Isn't it a, it's better this year. I think that's one of there's like five months of lines that definitely got better. And they're one of the five. They sign linear bomb. They give that cool miller.

But the right side is the same. But last year, they couldn't block it all. So they're the better than that. So I'm apprehensive of the entire right side. That offensive line and the receiving group.

Are you reading Raiders too? Real. I mean, I'm shocked that you have anybody over. I had Atlanta as the single word situation. Drake London.

Be John Robinson. I'm just talking about their quarterbacks or two of the panics. Oh, I thought you, I thought you were asking me to rank like, the situation that the quarterback is. Oh, my bad.

I completely understand that enough. I'm so sorry. Okay. No, that's fine. I like that.

I like that. The way you did it is almost a better question. Uh, yeah. Because Atlanta is a ton of skill guys. But they have the worst actual quarterbacks school guys.

Yeah. If I was, if I was ranking actual quarterbacks, it would have been Cleveland with a bullet. So you'd have Cleveland over Atlanta? Uh, yes.

Yes. Dude. That's how we saw Sean Watson play. I just think Sanders is going to win the job. I don't think we'll say to Sean.

“I think I honestly, I honestly think I would rather have Sanders than either of the Atlantic”

us. I don't think Panics can play three games in a row. And I don't think too a can either.

And I don't know who the third string quarterback is,

but I would bet that he plays more games than both of those guys. I think it's Cooper Rush if I might be wrong. I think Cooper Rush will play the most games in the Falcons. Two is just two has like four starts left and is NFL career max. There's no way.

He's takes one more hit. It's careers over. All right. Well, win healthy. I would take both two and Panics over the Brown.

The third one. He's like, yeah. No, it's fair. It's totally fair. And I want to go back to what I said.

The Dolphins fans, if I'm actually ranking quarterbacks, I like Malik Willis. I just hate a situation. I think he's. Well, that's a good one though.

So you think the two worst situations? Okay. Yeah. Where's Miami? Yeah.

And who'd you have for the second one? I think Vegas. Maybe that's too harsh. I. But you saw a shower for 1500 yards.

Dude, outside of him, it is. We sure Pittsburgh isn't one of the worst situations for Cuba. What's good about their situation?

“Uh, I think Metcaft, Pittman, and then whatever.”

Who's in the water seat three, Bernard, whoever is pretty good. I think the. Okay. Offensive. It's decent.

The interior is really good. Kind of figure out the tackle position. Running game. I think it's a good run game. I think um, tight ends are good.

You like that more than Tennessee? Yeah. 100%. Do you like a more than Arizona? Um, yes, because of the offensive line.

But Arizona's not bad. Although Arizona randomly has like every running back on earth. Yeah. It was weird when they were. The coach was touting a James Connor.

He's like, you guys just spent the third pick on a running back.

Or who was James Connor? What's he doing at this? I don't understand. I think Arizona, the offensive line could be better. But they're pretty gutless here.

So my bottom three, just for actual quarterbacks situation. The only ones that got a minus two for me. We're in the team rankings. You actually get negative points. We're Cleveland, the Jets and Atlanta.

Yeah. You're got Gino. I'm sorry. He was a, he has to be a minus two unless we see something different. Yeah.

I don't know if you can have any other minus two minus ones. That was it. Um, all right. I have one more question and then we'll take a break and go to the rankings. This is really important.

Eduardo, get ready to cut this. Oh, no. [laughs] Mark it. I'm ready to cut this.

Okay. No, cut this for a social clip. Yeah.

Has Jordan love. Replace. Justin Herbert.

“As the football nerd king of the quarterback position.”

Has this finally has, has this been a subtle shift that we didn't acknowledge.

But it's happened. I feel like I'm walking into a trap. Like you laid an elaborate like saw style. I did. I did.

I did. There's no way out. Because you already know. I love Jordan love. And the way you set that question up is makes it look like I'm falling for it.

But yeah. He's a really good quarterback. And he has this reputation as being this incredibly irresponsible interception machine. Yeah. That's not substantiated by reality.

And I think. And the nerds have all we we had a quorum. We got together. Keep being nerd of polisa. We had a we had a we had a little summit in the off season.

To discuss. First we did our giant Justin Herbert presentation and everybody. You know, had measure. We put up slides about how we can defend him this year. Now that the circumstances are better.

Somebody was stopping at the podium about he lost both of his tackles. He lost both of them. Ruise had to take like a five minute break. But Jordan love and this was widely discussed with the summit. Yeah.

Like actually not a higher perception rate.

“I believe bottom 10 or something in football.”

I've been posted this at one point.

The problem is that when he does turn it over.

It looks so unbelievably goofy. Yeah. That it sticks in people's minds and has a disproportionate impact on like the public imagination. That makes people think he turns it over. So you're you're talking about the concept of loud turnovers.

Yes. So in basketball, I always called this the 90 10 guy where everybody's 90% really good at basketball. But they're going to be 10% not that good at stuff. And when it's somebody like Russell Westbrook. You really noticed the 10%.

And love is the 10 that love 10% for whatever reason seems just the worst. He's also like the anti Westbrook in that all of his rate stats are unbelievable. Like when you go back and you look at everything and I know everyone's always arguing about what's quarterback stats matter. And my answer to that is it doesn't you can literally take any quarterback stack. DV8 EPA QBR password whatever you want.

He is like top five or better in all of them. Like he's he is both from the film you type of the film nerds. The film nerds and the stat nerds both love him because he's been so good. Right.

“And yet people talk about him like he's I don't even I think like they kind of talk about him like he's like late stage Brett Fox.”

Yeah, they don't take them seriously. It doesn't make sense to me. So last year what loses craft. So wide receivers are you know, Watson gets hurt every year. But in general, like the wide receivers were a mess.

Top four pressure rate against him. So all these QB stats you can go and you can over rate any of them. I think pressure rates are really good. It just tells you what quarterback was under direct the most. He was in the top four and EPA.

I mean, you have all these different ones. But his EPA was 0.24 per play. I was like in the top four. Here's how I would this is why I think he took the title from Herbert. Okay.

I think I think the nerd community is scolding us the most about love. And I think scolding is a huge part of this. Okay. Where people are like, you don't understand. Yeah.

You guys are wrong. This guy's really good. And here's some things you have to. I feel like you're inadvertently right now making some profound political commentary. That's true.

And why we might be in this situation now. But I'm going to put that to the side. Okay. So teach me how to be a Jordan love enthusiast in a way that doesn't alienate the every man. I want to I want to be better. I want to I want to defend him in a way that's not annoying to people.

So here here's the thing.

This is just like you almost have to go overboard with the look. Either follow the NFL or you don't. If you don't see the Jordan love thing, I can't help you because he's that good. And if you're going to say he's not then enjoy your Sundays. Watch five games at once.

Eat chicken chicken fingers. Have beers with your buddies and don't actually watch the games because that because that's where you are if you don't see it. You're you're you're you're varying dangerously close to watch the tape which people don't. But he's tape and stats and. When are you backing into being a love defender?

I am a love defender to me love has a better case than Herbert because at least we've seen him play well in the playoffs like he's.

Yeah. And we've seen Robert fall part in the playoffs and love has not as I don't think has.

I always feel like he's in the mix.

He let me ask you a question. Or any of his receivers better than safe hours.

“Well, I think craft was a top four Titan four together.”

I thought he was always open and he looked like. He's like rockish to me. He's not obviously not. Um, receivers. I like golden.

I don't know what happened with him last year. I had him on two fantasy teams wondering. Why they weren't throwing it to him. Maybe he's not good. But where they drafted him and what they wanted from him.

Feels like he's the key swing guy for them to share. They have a lot of guys I like like I think Watson's good when he's. When he plays. Yeah, I think golden as potential read is a fun piece. But at the point I'm making and I think this is another thing we can add to our Jordan love public service announcement that we're putting together here is like.

We just made a fun of Baltimore for their wide receiver one being you know, immunized.

Yeah. He would be easily. That's her super. Right. So like why doesn't Jordan love get some credit for that as well?

Right. Right. He's throwing a. Puckin' a coup on Jamar Chase and. JSN, you know.

So I just feel. I mean, I'm like I have his number two.

“He's top three against the blitz top three on third down top three on third and long.”

What is what is it take? What does it take? I don't know. He's won the title. It's official. All right. We're going to take a break. We're going to go through the rankings. This episode is brought to you by chat.

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Hi. As you can get, it's nine points at the QB position. It can only be one person in the alpha. And then we go down.

And I have for the off of the second year in a row, Josh Allen as my nine pointer.

12 plus rushing to these. Each year for the last three. I don't need to do a stats. The playoff win is the one thing that people are going to point to. And I have to say, like, I don't think he choked in the playoff side share,

but it wasn't not a joke. That's great. It wasn't great for the out thing. And like Sando did his QB tears and had the homes in the one spot, which we'll talk about in a second. To me, Allen is clearly still the best quarterback in the league.

At least if we're just in regular season only.

“And if we're going to go into who do you want from one game?”

That's a different category. Do you think DJ more changes anything? I do. Okay. And that's not me saying DJ more is twenty twenty one DJ more.

Or that he's going to suddenly become a top ten receiver in the NFL. But they just have such had such a lack of receiving option. It could win on the boundary. You could beat man coverage. Who do you threaten man coverage in any way?

So if even DJ more is even like a top twenty receiver, I do think that makes things a lot easier for both. Would you be scared if your buffalo fan that the bears fans were ready to drive him to the airport? I would be more mad about the deal. Like my objections to that was less trading for DJ more and more what they gave up for him

and the contract part of it which I thought would didn't make it. So two teams or he didn't seem like it went totally perfect behind the scenes or with everybody. Like two teams that seemed like they were pretty happy to move on. Which I think to me is a red flag. We'll see.

I mean, the the new coach who is a little more offense oriented. Maybe that helps. But I don't know. Josh is just he's the scariest guy to go against. He's the scariest guy to bed against and I don't think that's changed.

So I have him at the top. Do you agree with that or no? Would you have a homster? No, I think that's fair. I also think Josh Allen just doesn't get hurt.

No, that matters. They're ability matters. I keep saying this. It's I mean, he is literally like a linebacker there. Yeah.

And the fact that he's become unbelievably accurate and smart on top of that is ridiculous. I think when you compare into my homes, it's a little tricky for me because

They've had such a great offensive line in such a dominant run game and my homes. We'll talk about him been in such crappy circumstances. So it's kind of hard, you know, to compare. But I do think it's fair to put out in there now. Top seven favorites celebrity relationship for you.

We had a long aside about this because, you know, both him and Herbert dating or married to Officer, or Herbert talking to Mary yet.

“And I made the argument that I think the big part of the reason why Allen rose so high in the ranking.”

They're fantasy guys rankings is because he's such a wife guy, which women love. Good couple pictures of them, too. Yeah. There was a clip of him like tearing up talking about their baby daughter that went around. Can't have better publicity than that.

Next category is the the blues. These are eight pointers. Nine five, and I'm going to do them in the order. I have them. It's brave.

Stafford. I have second.

I don't have my home second.

And I'll explain why. I want to watch is it okay if we watch a couple games with him with the repaired ACL. Just see how it looks. Can I just can I just see like two games before I move start moving up the ladder. Especially somebody who has to.

In big games when I don't love their receivers and neither do you. Kelsey's just got married is in his mid 30's. Um, over and over again when they play somebody good. He has to. He's the baby that Kelsey just got married.

Oh, I don't know. I don't know. He's eyes on the price. He just had a wedding of 1200 people. I don't know if he cares about season.

Almost all of these guys are married. And it's just big wedding. I don't know. I don't know where it's heads at.

“Um, but if my home says to use his legs to save games and quarters for them.”

Yeah. More relevant. Very relevant. I don't know if you can. I just want to see it.

So I haven't third.

Stafford stats wise was ridiculous and.

Yeah. You know. All right. Let me have. Best year since 21.

And the question for me with him 38 years old. Yeah. Was that the peak? Yeah. I got a question for you.

Yeah. Those two quarterbacks. If you switch their circumstances. Yeah. It would be terrible for staffer.

Yeah. Well, that's why. I think I. I think I. I imagine the homes.

Behind the Rams offence of line with the Rams run game, Sean McVay. Pook and a crew of Devante Adams. Like, what would that look like? That's fair.

So you would have my homes second.

No, not necessarily. I would. I would. Yes. I would.

I would probably put him third right now. Can I give you a. Maybe. This is good for you. I went on your pod and I was saying I thought see.

I don't have the most talented team. Which apparently was like a hot take. Dude. Because the seahawks fans were like. Finally, somebody else said it other than us.

They were like delighted. There's like no seahawks barely any in the NFL 100. Which I know is an absurd sentence to use that as some kind of. It is the players though. Devan withers been who's like.

Because he didn't crack the 100. Yeah, but that. Do you take that top 100 list seriously? Because I do not. I did my rankings in Seattle.

I had a 38 points, which was the highest I've ever done in four years. I wanted to do an NFL show and it's July. Yeah. You take this. Okay.

I just. He's done on it. What list is that? I know. Anyways.

In Cooper Cooper was, I think. I saw today he was like 45.

“Does anybody think Cooper jeans better than withersman?”

At least it's like. Cooper jeans pretty awesome. Yes, but I mean 45 and nothing on the list is crazy. Yeah. Anyway, I made.

I looked this up. I did some research for this pod. Okay. Cubies 38 years or older 38 plus cubies. Yeah.

10 wins. 4,000 yards. 25 TDs. 7 yards per tip. See, solid numbers for a high NQB, right?

4,025. 7. It's only happened nine times. 6 of the guys were Tom Brady. Red far of a no nine.

Manning in 14 on Denver and Rogers. 21 on Green Bay. So Stafford. Just putting up those numbers. Who'd be the 10th time.

It's ever happened at that age. 4,025. 7. Which isn't even remotely close to what he did last year. It was 4707 and 46 to these.

And it just. I just wonder he's had a lot of wear and tear. Lot of injuries. Nice stuff. Back stuff.

I don't know. I think he will be fine. His arm strength has not diminished at all clearly. However. That Ram's offensive line is not deep.

I'd be on the left side for one of them.

That's when I started worrying about Matthew Stafford because that's where the age starts to show pressure. When you have a top heavy team, it's tough to be good everywhere too. We'll see. Anyway, my home's third.

His peak year is now four years ago. 5,250 yards. 41 touchdowns of 8.1 yards per attempt. And I guess the question is was. Was that the peak?

Well, he reached us heights ever again. He's in his 30's now. I don't think he will unless they actually find a whiter's in one. That's.

“Do they have a single-wide receiver you can quickly trust?”

No. Do you ever? Never. Right. I trust Rishi Rice against zone coverage.

But that's such a, like, I think he's he's a total useful receiver. I think. I trust him. A lot of football field. Yes.

Specifically zone coverage between the two lines. I do not. I know. Like I talked about the bills and like man coverage. You never like a win.

Well, that would be more who at least is like competent. Yeah. I don't see that in Kansas City. So I also like the Kelsey thing. I mean, he's all fame player.

Just got married. Just got a big 1200 person wedding. Best square garden. That's not that's off his mind. And his mind is clear.

The wedding's over. That's how I felt after I get married.

I was like, I never have to think about that again.

Football. Football has a life for death element to it that you kind of have to throw yourself into. You know, sometimes he's guys who knows. I do think I ripped him from homes. Brady had this.

After he tore the I sell him. Oh, wait. And then nine and 10 they didn't make the super boy that those years and he kind of moved and he's still statistically was great. But it felt like he needed like a second prime to start and then finally started in 11 where he had like his second run. So the question with the homes is is there going to be a second run or was it just that amazing first peak that was historic and all that.

But that's going to be where we landed like almost like a pool hole thing. It's the circumstances a little terminate for me and we can do the analog was gradient what what happened. They drafted the two tight ends in 11 in 10 and that led to the second. The two tight ends. Well, what the second one was good for.

They turned into a multiple murder. No, but like. The thing right so it feels like Kansas City there needs to be a total refresh.

“I think Andy Reed and the brain trust there.”

There needs to be some of the evolution on that offense particularly the run game particularly because of the injury and I'm not just talking about. I'm specifically talking about this season you talked about let's see my homes on the ACL.

His ability to run was so important obviously it's always been important and it's always been a especially important the postseason.

So earlier I mentioned like they can't they don't want to make a big coverage. They did have one person his name was Patrick Mahomes because deep defense would turn their back to him and he would just take off on the down if you can't do that. If you're defensive or not afraid of that anymore and they don't have any receivers you're scared of playing man. You're golden so I just and it he was like they're leading so they've messed along the run game this off season. But that's something like I feel like everything around him has to get better for a second golden age to happen.

They missed a couple of picks to over the last couple years which is always bad you miss first or second rounders and this is what happened with Brady down the stretch where it was like they just miss some drafts and you can't recover from that. The walker thing. Getting Kenneth Walker having a real running back the running back stats were really really future last year. I mean some of the worst advanced stats for them anyway. So I have my homestead but I'm ready to move him second as soon as I'm running around. I've Drake May 4th which I think people would think is high.

He made the Super Bowl last year and had crazy stats. Wait you have Drake May over Joe Buron, Lamar Jackson. I'm going to explain why in a second. I'm a Drake May guy you're testing me. Okay. Meaning you know what I like results. Drake May went 17 and 4 last year and he had crazy stats.

It's not like it was like some sort of flute thing and they added AJ Brown who's either the 7th, 8th, 9th or 10th best receiver in the league. They added Dobbs. They improved the offensive line.

“Why is it any a top 5 kb again? Why is it any a safer bet than Lamar Jackson who's like six years older than him?”

Because Lamar has done it for seven years. I just want to join me here last year. I was one year, dude. Tell that to the Texan Span.

I mean I have taken my slings and arrows for my MVP vote, which I will still stand on and defend. But like I don't think you can credibly after just one season break him above those guys. I just did it. He's okay. I love him. I think he's so good. But Lamar 349 yards rushing last year in 13 games.

He's never been under 50 yards a game rushing until last year.

EPA per play last year 0.07. She is slightly better than Jackson Dart and Mason Rudolph. He needs to take away your EPA privileges. Three playofflands career, which is the same as Drake may have last year. He's 30 years old. And I don't know. I would just rather have Drake, man.

I'm just telling him is a Patriot fan. I think, dude, if we're talking about building like from ground up. I'm saying for this year that's one year only had rather Drake. I'm saying if it was more than one year only, I would absolutely take Drake may. But I'm not going to take him for one year only over the two time.

She should have been free time MVP. You know what, if Malay Rubens watching and listening to this? I don't care. And I burrow last in this group. So I had five in this group.

“Here's the thing with Joe Burrow that I don't love.”

So I have basically Stafford Bombs, May Jackson and Burrow. So not Lamar for all the reasons.

No, Lamar I just had in there.

Oh, I'm sorry. Jackson Jackson. I have Lamar fifth and May fourth, Burrow sixth. Okay. Burrow's played three seasons and three half seasons. And he hasn't won a playoff game since 2022.

Yeah. I think that kind of matters. And I don't know if his offense of lying. And it's allegedly a little bit better. Who knows?

I've maintained it's better. They're schedule is super easy. Everybody loves them. There's been a lot of action on their over. And I don't know.

He's had a lot of wear and terrorized. He said some real injuries. Not like fluke dumb injuries, like real injuries.

And I just kind of want to see it.

“I think the injury thing is where you got to start.”

It's the most credible reason to doubt both him and Jackson. But more him, he's been hurt more. Yeah. Sometimes I feel like he's not talked about in the same way. And it's a good reflection of how like getting injured doesn't.

It's not necessarily correlated to, you know, being. I think sometimes we'll say the dual three quarterbacks. You'll get injured a lot. It's like, actually your your pocket pass are here. I know he is scrambling ability Joe Burrow.

Yeah. Had some pretty weird injuries along the way. You know, when he's been on the field. I think top four or five four is probably top four is where I would put him. But he also, again, to go back to circumstances has been in pretty damn good circumstances.

I mean, he's probably got the best one to punch. She'll receive her in the NFL. I do think the offensive line is gotten better. So I think that's fair. I think Burrow versus Jackson is a debate most people have.

I'm higher on the mark personally, but I think they're going to give up. Let's see it. It's all set up for him this year. The two easiest schedules in the league are Cleveland and Cincinnati. And if he, if he's a 10 win quarterback and can stay healthy this year,

I don't understand how he would win 10 games with the town. Yes, all right. Next category is the light blue. We can move for the least fast press got. Who I guess I have as my seventh best quarterback.

You're 11 for him. He's got two playoff ones total.

“I think he's has the mantle right now of would I rather have this guy as my fantasy.”

Q B or my real Q B. We have this from time to time. You, you wouldn't want him as your real Q B. I mean, if I'm trying to win the Super Bowl. Be of him seven.

That's pretty hot. I know. I know. Okay. I'm just saying.

It's like it's going to be fantasy. He wants some people some fantasy titles or he actually wants some NFL playoff games. It's funny how he used to be like the most divisive quarterback in the NFL. Yeah, he struggled. He kicked every in a way.

Yeah, he, remember like. What does that cover the Dallas Cowboys more? The. They're not talking about the Cowboys at all. I don't understand.

I'm on NFL live today. And we have zero Cowboys segments. So I say, yeah, did it. Start with the Ravens. Say flowers.

Um. I, but it is funny, right? That he now everyone just kind of accepts that he's in this tier that you haven't. Like everybody accepts that he's in that. I would say six to nine range six to eight.

And yet if we got to a playoff game. And he was like a three and a half point favorite at home. I'd be nervous to be on him. I wouldn't be nervous because of him. Yeah.

I have loved right after him for all the reasons we talked about. And then Herbert is the last person in this group.

Um, I really thought he was a noble season by him last year though with with how bad the line was noble.

And yet not noble enough for you to have him over him. He's just running for his life. The question for him and I think this goes for burrow too is. Yeah. Can you take too many heads?

Yeah. Can you run for your life too much? Is there residual damage from it? Okay. That's a fair. Speaking on behalf of the greater Justin Herbert supporters film nerds alliance.

Yeah. I feel I'm qualified to be the emissary. That's a fair criticism. I think because I get worried about I actually have a little theory that I've been banning around, which is when these quarterbacks have these meltdowns in the postseason.

He was awful in that game. Scraught. I sometimes feel an honestly like may at the end to a lesser. He was terrible. He was that I do feel like there's something to be said about the accumulation of those hits. And bad offensive line play building and building and building.

And then a quarterback just kind of imploding at the end of the year. Like there's only so long. You can shoulder a terrible offensive line.

“And I kind of think and that's why I genuinely believe.”

That's why those quarterback and some of the other quarterbacks. Like end up being the worst at the end. It's because of like you said the accumulation of all. Yeah, you're talking about it could be during a season. It could also be a career like when I was a little kid.

We had Jim punk it.

It was the first pick in the draft and just got the shit kicked out of him for six years.

And up getting traded a San Francisco waived and then took like two years to recover. And then went to the Raiders and actually won a Super Bowl. But you know, it's hard. It's I mean, he's lying. It's not even just at the a lot of a lot of pressure.

It's the way they allowed pressure, which was right up the middle. He felt like a jailbreak every other play. What could do is I had them and I had them in the top eight for offensive lines. Now that they're tackles back for guys back. Both of their guys are back and they spent money on it, too.

I think their lines actually, then the McDaniel piece. He's the one that I could see. I think he's the stealth and be people. Yeah. There's a lot of.

How do you consider though? That he's planning a wedding during the season. Did you factor when is the wedding? I don't know after the season. I don't like it.

Maybe it's going to be. It might be on as much. I don't like it. Yeah. He's preparing for the Patriots game.

His fiance is like, Oh, my mom is being such a jerk. She wants us to invite my uncle. Anyway, I have the totally stealth MVP. I totally agree with that. So seven pointers.

Prescott love and Herbert. And that I like it. That actually is our top nine. I like it. Which leads to the next question because now we're in the reds, which are five pointers.

And I have Donald Gough, Perty and Caleb Williams in this group. Donald Gough, Perty and Caleb Williams in that order. So that was the tentative order. My question for you because one of these guys.

“I think is clearly the tenth best quarterback in the league.”

Because I think the top nine is pretty set. Yeah. I think that's good. Who is the tenth best quarterback in the league? I can offer you Donald Gough, Perty.

Or Caleb Williams was sixth, fourth quarter, comebacks. And pretty pretty kind of basic stats except for that. How good he is when his backs to the wall. I would throw in another quarterback into this group. Why would I would put strout for consideration, but I understand.

As a hesitation. We're not even close again. I would put strout yet. I would put Trevor Lawrence in this group personally. And I got as someone to just went back and rewatch.

Trevor Lawrence for a podcast. So I had Trevor Lawrence as a four point. My question for you was going to be. Do you believe in 2021's last eight games, Trevor Lawrence? Or what we saw in the playoff game, Trevor Lawrence.

He wasn't even that bad, first of all.

I believe in it because circumstances stay the same. Most part. Okay. So you want me to move him up a point. You want me to make him five pointer.

Okay. I'm going to listen to you. It's so awesome. I just didn't know. I want some of those get the bracket.

“I mean, okay, so but I have the guys you mentioned.”

I'm going to parse this out. One year, if it was multiple years, I would put Caleb there. But it's not multiple years. I know. I'm putting Jared.

I would put Jared got there personally. Okay. I've. Jared got his one of his quarterbacks where my estimation has grown over time. And I think he's got better over time.

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It's still a big part of it. Kind of strange variable to put in versus what you have with some other teams are like, yeah, things are going great. We're happy about this and this and you have the Niners who are dealing with all of them. I don't know. I was so high on the Niners like off season moves.

They made who we did our power hour. I was like, look at this roster and then you take step back and you're like, wait, all of these skill players are either older coming off an injury or have almost all of them have injury history. So why am I like, I felt like hubris to assume. This is before peers all about her that they would all be fine.

So I don't. At some point it ends for events. This is becoming unrealistic for number one. Some of them somewhere between a one and a two receiver depending on how healthy it is. But at some point you can't.

He's hitting his mid 30s, which is. Yeah. But yeah. Caleb.

“So I think at Caleb, he's the one I could see jumping those seven or.”

Maybe even in eight this season if he's just awesome, but maybe he's a year away. I like him though. I really feel like he really won me over last year. And he's a good example of like sometimes he just need a good coach and good people around you. Like I think there's another version of his career where he's just.

Basically like a more talented caliber and it never happens, but I don't know.

He kind of won me over and then we talked about Lawrence. All right. That's the five. Then we move into the light reds where I do not have CJ Strad. These are all four pointers.

Jalen Hurts. Jalen Hurts. Baker Mayfield. Jalen Daniels and. Bo.

Nick's. Okay. Question for Hertz. Would you bet on this being on resurgence here or a holy shit. We got to get out of this contract year by like December.

I'm more positive than we got to get out of the contract. I do fear that it might take a minute to look good though because it's just, you know, such a new offense in Philadelphia. And I do worry that the criticism is going to be so intense. So it's for a few weeks if it doesn't look great immediately. Right.

This has been a tough one for me because I know I talked about Daniels. I just want to see him in it before I come to any conclusions because again, you know, when you talked with he goes fans about the fact that hurts. That's only throw over the middle of the field and he struggled against certain zone looks and that they'll say well, you know, the scheme was so bad and the scheme was bad. So they're not wrong. But also you kind of want to see him do it.

Throw with anticipation. Maybe makes them see your throws. So I'm a little apprehensive of it.

But I'm never going to be to fully out on him because he does have like a really legitimate and unique skill set.

Like he throws a beautiful go ball. He's really good athlete. I wish he ran more. But. And he's one. He actually won a Super Bowl. My question with him that I can't in his 57 and 25 is a starter.

“But my question with him is why do they seem like they're hiding stuff with him?”

Like that. What do you mean? I was thought the pace of play that they played with. Where they just very deliberate like they're trying to shorten the game. You know, and they they kind of talked about it. They're like, yeah, we think we have better person or

And it's like, yeah, I don't know.

It feels like you're hiding hurts a little bit. Like you don't want him to have 10 cracks.

“I would defend him by saying I think they were hiding the offense as a whole last year.”

Like they knew that the offense was a disaster by their standards. But they had a top five or six line that Barkley, they had two really good receivers. They got hurt. Like, what are they hiding? Why did they think their offense is a good? Because it was bad.

I mean, the run game was awful. The line was hurt. Too fair sense. No, I know. I'm just saying. I'm like Patriots.

I know. I know. But I think that they were. Very aware of how bad the offense was and they they would they had to win games with the defense, which by the way remains awesome.

So. That's great. Yeah. Um, may feel I feel like should be a five, but his body is just so band up. And this feels like a make a break for him.

I know they were doing the basically short term deal, which is what they did. He's played 120 games as a starter. It's 58 and 62. When he's healthy, though, he's really good. I just, he's a, he's a smaller guy.

And I just wondered this is who he's going to be over here. By the end of last year, he had like four different injuries. He was injured. He was, I think they put too much amount of shoulders last year. Like the run game was bad.

They're offensive line was also really banged up.

“And I think if they want to get things back to 2024,”

they need to. Comp things down, bring down the depth of target. Yeah. The fun game going again, play action. He is a quarterback.

You can absolutely win with. I think though. Whether he's like a quarterback. You win a lot of games because of is probably what's holding them back from doing the long term deal too. And can you keep them healthy?

And then Bonax, who knows? Um, why do they game manage with them so much?

There's like why were they always behind?

Why were they was scrambling in fourth quarters? To, you know, why why were they basically a 10 minute team offensively? He's got way better weapons this year and should be better. But I have no idea. But I think he's a four because they won games of them.

All right. Go to the twos quickly. Okay. The pink, the pink chippers. Hmm.

I have CJ Straud, Daniel Jones, Jackson Dart, Tyler Chuck and Bryce Young. And I'm happy to move any of those back. And make them zero pointers instead of two pointers. Is there anyone who does not belong in that group? Doesn't belong in that group.

Um. Straud Jones Dart, Chuck and Bryce Young. You could talk me in a dart the most because we just haven't seen him play two months in a row. I thought, so I've gone back and rewatched all the rookie quarterbacks. I thought Tyler Chuck was the best of them.

I loved him. You could have talked me in right now to make him a four pointer. I f***ing love that guy. You came on. I thought you were like, touting him and you were like, yeah, and Baylay.

And I kind of got hurt. Baylay. Yeah. And then when I went back to watch the Saints. I was like, oh my God.

There was a game in like week. If Baylay was a stud for three weeks.

“I think it was like the best for every see her.”

Yeah. Whipple. Um. No cam word consideration here. Not yet horrible horrible situation.

Not yet. I mean, just a bit more. Yeah. And then after I watched a couple games. But I think for now, it's got to be a zero.

I felt like watching him. It reminded me of watching the different quarterbacks in some ways. But Caleb Williams is rookie season where there was something there. Some really exciting plays needed to learn outplay on time and bad situation. And then Caleb Williams got Ben Johnson.

Yeah. And then I got Tennessee. And I'm like, okay, we got Brian Dable. It's better. But is it?

And it's not. It's not he didn't get the like Chicago glow up. So I don't know. And they draft and take. What?

Yeah. I think he was last year's. Well, what would have been a good two minute Twitter video of all of his great throws. Like. Gameboard was a problem.

And she just had like what like 10 incredible throws. That was really like weirdly unbelievable against Seattle and Kansas. Yeah. There's nothing there. I mean, I'm in on cam word.

I just think for the exercise of this year. No, I get it. And I had. I had to have nine quarterbacks that were zero or minus two. Because I feel like if you're getting.

If you if you if you don't have. If you're in the bottom 25% of the position with your quarterbacks. I can't give you points. Um, anyway, CJ Strahd.

Here's the thing with CJ.

I know. And he might be a four or five point. And then there here's the thing. And we talked about this when I did your pod. This is the best defense in the league.

Yeah. There's a real case that they could just run through. And the, and if he could just can he drive the car. 58 miles an hour in the highway. I don't even need to go 60.

Just keep it straight. Yeah. And you're going to have the lead. Your defense is going to. You're going to be up.

10 nothing 13 nothing. It's a little like the Seahawks and a lot of the games last year. Yeah. 13 tire second half of the Seahawks. 13 three 14 zero.

You just don't screw it up. And I think he'll gain confidence as the year goes long.

So my hope is that he doesn't come back from the play.

I've disaster with too much of a just drive the car mentality. Like I don't want him to be too conservative. You know what I mean? Because of the like everybody. So you want him in the car pool and everyone's in a mile.

Just air in an hour. And he goes Collins man. And he throws like a beautiful. Deep ball. Like I just think.

Yeah. To find that balance. I mean, the postseason was insane. But I don't he's not a gay manager quarterback. I really don't think he is.

Like I feel. So you think he's a hit or me. He's like a three point shooter in basketball. Like he's. I think he's a he checked.

“I think if I was ranking and where you have 20.”

Yeah. 25 or something. No, I'm hired. Okay. Sorry.

So I would put him in personally. He's in my like 12 to 15 range. Wow. So you really. I think he's my talented.

This is good. I like this. So you you dump. I want it for love and CJ strad is now. CJ strad is now.

You're rescue. You. He's my. I've adopted CJ strad. I love that.

Yes. I will. CJ strad's foster mom. We post one of those videos where there's like a time lapse video. Like.

CJ strad. He giving him a bad. That's weird. I don't know. Oh.

Daniel Jones. I don't know. That's a hard one with you. Jackson. Jackson.

Who does.

“Brace Young is he a two or zero for you.”

And I don't know. I hate. I hate talking about. I don't hate talking about the banders. But they were such a psychotic team last year.

Right. Like he would get it up for the Rams more than once. Yeah. And then look a bismal against divisional opponents.

And I don't know where the truth is.

Maybe the worst guy to bet on or against game to game. You just like fucking pot luck. No. There's a lot of buzz about him in the training camp. Now I should mention the Panthers training camp.

It's like they moved that thing outside the Cisco practice field and moved that's Carolina. I've already had like five injuries. Horrible vibes. Yeah.

Horrible vibes. That's there on my bad vibes list along with San Francisco so far. Okay. And then for the zeros. Cousins, Mendoza, Kyler.

I have Rogers as a zero. I think he can fool you a couple games. But I just think over the course of 17 games out of it. I don't see it. Could he go 9 and 8 and sink in the playoffs.

Sure. Malik Willis came more upset. Who had the successful hold. Then congrats to him. I have them all a zero.

I don't. I can't give points for any of those. And then the minus two's were Watson Sanders. Gino Smith and then two of Panthers were the three. Someone on Sanders thing had Rogers's a tier one.

Yeah. There was just games where he couldn't physically do anything. The funny about him is like I feel like he's he actually still can throw it down field at times or and make difficult like seem throws and whatnot. He just so clearly doesn't want to get hit.

“So that's why you know the average of the target is like right low as in football.”

Yeah. He's going to either get a dirted or throw it away. The pressure is coming and it's just so. It just affects the entire offense. I do think they improve the circumstances around him, but I think you're fit.

That's fair. I like I told you I'm higher on board. Willis is as a bomber because if he was in a better situation. I would I could make a or you may for him, but it's hard. The Rogers thing anytime they went against a good defense.

It just felt like they just played up on the line. Knowing that he wanted to get rid of the ball in two seconds or less. And there was no plan to be if he couldn't find the. And it was so frustrating. I got to remember the paths lost to them.

It's like just he's just going to get rid of the ball in a second. I know just got tackle literally. When I see those games last year, I've like just somebody tackle. And if they played. It was if they played defenses that were bad at tackling, they could move the ball.

If they played defenses that were going to tackling, it was nothing. And that was pretty much it. Who's your favorite backup? Could be before we go. Like the best.

Who's your favorite? Who's your like I've been quietly stockpiling stock on this guy just in case minus Davis Mills. I can't do that. I mean, I know I'm not using this to track from party because I do think there's a difference. But Mac Jones was legitimately quite good last year.

That's fair. Where are you? I thought that feeling. Yeah, I was going to say like, did. Have you gotten over it?

Listen, are you ready to root for his success?

I always root for Mac, but it's just it's.

Listen, this is the problem with this position is you can be in the wrong situation. And it's like going to the wrong high school and in the 80s movie. It's just can just go horribly from day one or you can be in an awesome situation and everything's. Everything's pitch. It's the fighting with the night is like, I mean, it was Kyle like they were losing guys too.

I think you're right. That's one of the sneaky biggest things to. Is like how is Jan hand this season because he's such. Such a difference maker for them. Yeah.

Yeah. Mac Mac is my choice. Is there someone you like better? Do you have a backup? I mind David.

I've always been a Davis.

No supporter. I'm sticking your neck out for Davis. There's still I still have some Tyler Huntley stock. I know he's bounced around and had some swings, but. I don't know there's there's there's but he's had moments where I was.

I was wondering. When does the count? Is it back up right now? When do we see when does it sooner rather than.

“You think it's going to be like a Drake main thing?”

I saw a Drake main thing. It's literally every first round. Drake may was like, yeah, I don't know. And then it was like week four or five. Every time.

What is that not having? Yeah, right. Like I just. I think when does it would be a plus two? I think he'll be better.

I like him better. Coming out of the gate because he's older and smart guy. All right. I mean, it comes. Are you doing Rams preseason games?

Not doing the Rams preseason. I am traveling some for now. We're with NFL network. I'm on the group boots on the ground. I'm actually going to Seattle on Friday.

Speaking of backups. I'll see the Jason Jalen Milbro hype. So I'll evaluate that. First hand. I can.

But I've done.

Yeah, you're you came on my paw for the power hour.

People should check that out. It was really fun. Got the Simmons bump. Uh, Simmons bump. I really legit.

It's it looks. You can see it in the little charts. Uh, me the time show featuring Lenny. We're wrapping up our division previews. And then we start.

Start a season coverage. And then also. Yeah, check out the court facts. Thinking even though we spoil the preview. Sorry.

I was trying to do a rewatchable. And Seattle because I love Seattle. And just the theaters are taken for like three years. I don't know. It's going on there.

They do a lot of. Hey, Seattle, we tried. We tried through rewatchables, but you have nothing available. Ever. So sorry.

Think it happened. Someone. All right. Good to see you. Thank you.

All right. We're going to talk baseball. Billy Gillis here. Anthony DiBundo is here. Before we start.

Billy Gill. Just talked football meaner for an hour. She claims that if you went on the street. Miami and asked people to name. Three wide receivers in the plans for the dolphins.

People wouldn't be able to do it. So I figured you're right here.

“Can you name three dolphins receivers who might have 30 catches this year?”

Oh, who might have 30 catches. I was just trying to name three dolphins wide receivers. Yeah. Can you name three dolphins wide receivers? Malique Washington is on the dolphin still.

Right. Two to act. Well, right. Didn't they just. Yeah, they have two to.

Yeah. All right. Oh, man. It says to bundle. This is amazing.

They have completely shorted the wide receiver position in an attempt to get the number on pick. Well, here's the thing.

I only know because I did AFCE prep first this year.

Yeah. I'm going to get on the Friday on the game. The third one. Give me a third one. Malique Washington's on the on the dolphin.

He said. Yeah. That was one. Oh, you said him. Two to act.

Well, the whole bird. Toa birds. Jalen toa bird. Yeah. Jalen toa bird.

Oh, dolphins. Billy's good. Look. He's getting the mic out. My warm sharp here that I've been doing.

Jalen. Stealers research earlier today. Jalen toa bird. Okay. All right.

We're talking about. We're talking baseball. Trade deadline yesterday.

“This is the farewell baseball season until it comes back in 231.”

Are the Dodgers ruining baseball? I have thoughts on this. But this has been the big topic since the school trade. That this is now in fair. And we almost have to have a lock out to.

And we're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing.

We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing.

We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing.

We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing.

We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing.

We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing.

We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing.

We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing.

We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing.

We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing.

We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing.

We're talking about the big thing.

We're talking about the big thing.

We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing. We're talking about the big thing.

“The myths have been spending money like crazy and it doesn't matter at all.”

A lot of times you get these dudes and there's somewhere between 28 and 32. You give them a ton of money and their careers are already peaked. It's kind of what's happening with Kyle Tucker this year. He is not worth 60 million or whatever. He got booed at the game I went to on Saturday.

I just don't know where to do anything. The idea that they think they should be upset about anything and they should be entitled to boo people is absolutely insane. What is his salary actually? He's also prolonged. It's not 60 million.

He's probably like $2 million. He's fine for $2 million a year. To answer your question that you didn't ask me. They're ruining baseball. You're in Florida where the marlins have you did win two world series.

And you're also you've been sellers a lot. Then you've been buyers and you've been sellers again. But so you hate this. You're in the same league with them too.

Well, I mean, so I hated the Yankees and I thought the Yankees ruined baseball growing up as a child because they would always go again.

Whatever freeage was out there and it was like, okay. This is not fun. This is not fair. They can just do whatever they want. They didn't actually ruin baseball.

I mean, they went on their run. They had their dynasty there in the middle. And then it kind of just all fell apart when George went away. And Kashmir has it really been able to figure things out. And the Yankees aren't really the Yankees.

They were when I was growing up. Like the Dodgers have now become the new Yankees. But the Dodgers, the problem with the Dodgers is that they don't really have a weakness that we can find in terms of like how they're running their organization. Because they have a great farm system. They have all of the money in the world.

They can throw the money at people. But if it doesn't work out, then they can just trade away pieces. And they're still loaded and they can go out and get more people. Analytically, they're looking ahead of other teams. Like, they just, there's no way around it.

And I don't know if you guys have seen this.

“So like, one of the things that's been going around is because we're trying to figure out, like, how are the Dodgers doing it?”

Clearly, they're cheating one way or another. Julie had this video that he put out in the office. He said, there was detailing what an advantage the Dodgers have with their TV deal that other organizations don't. Because it went, it goes back to the McCourt, like bankruptcy of the Dodgers. So the Dodgers declared bankruptcy.

They then had agreed to sell the team. And they reached a deal with Major League Baseball because they had declared bankruptcy. We're instead of paying the, you know, standard like 33% of revenue sharing from their TV deal. They would only pay around 10%. And that would be for the duration of their TV contract.

So they ended up signing a massive TV deal that was something like $8 billion over 25 years or something.

So instead of paying, you know, the 33% of that, which would amount to like $95 to $100 million a year, they ended up paying close to $30 million. So they're already having $60 million that they would not have paid. Yeah. Well, it goes to Kyle Tucker and they'll pay him that in like 2040 or something.

And here's the problem. But that's the Japan money, too, because they're basically like a double team. They have a whole Japan fan base and a California fan base. This is going to collapse at some point, right? Like it would be in like 2039, 2040.

We're now their TV deal runs out. They have to have a new deal. They're going to go to the 33% instead of the 10% so they lose that extra $66 million.

“And then, by the way, I think this season have like 55% of their salaries deferred.”

They're going to be paying all of these guys like 2035 to 2040. And at a certain point, if there is a lock out this year, whichever one will blame the Dodgers for, if there's a lock out, and then there's a salary cap imposed, which I don't see how they're actually going to do that, even though people want that.

But if they do, in fact, impose a salary cap, this will blow up in the Dodgers face at some point in time. Because they're going to owe all of these people all of this money. And I don't know how they're going to be able to keep up with this. Because when Tony retires, which, you know, is way down the road, then unless they have like a pipeline where they keep bringing in Japanese talent,

there's this increased possibility. In Japan, I mean, it is, it is, they become a team you go to if you're in awesome Japanese player. But we thought that about the Mariners, you know, 15 years ago when each hero was there, right? And it didn't actually end up panning out that way. Like, each hero was kind of like this unique guy.

And then when Tony went to the angels, we thought like, oh, wow, this is going to be great for the angels. But it's the angels. So they mismanaged that situation entirely, including not getting anything for him and just letting him walk away like down the street to his cross town team. It's, it's, it's, I don't know if we're going to get to the angels.

I don't understand angels as an organism. We're going to get to them later. I'm going to give you my tip. They're old too. The Dodgers.

Yeah, they're all now. Well, I mean, so my, here's my take. I don't mind it. I like having super teams.

I think a lot of the times it doesn't work out. I think the only sport where it can really be damaging is if we had this in the NBA, which we briefly had and they put in all the second apron stuff. But I think half the time these deals are too long. You end up getting a guy who has all this pressure on him, who's all of a sudden

making this crazy amount of money and he goes sideways. Like, Tucker, even like the mooky trade, which is the worst trade of my lifetime, mooky has how many years left to bundle? Like, seven, six, seven on his deal and quite a few. And he's not, he isn't played well for like a year and a half, right?

And they're paying him 30 million, 35 million down the road.

“But I, in general, I like having the team you have to beat.”

Where it's like, here's the superpower. We have to take them down. This was the Yankees in the 2000s. And by the way, they didn't win until 2009. I think in baseball, you can beat these teams.

So I'm okay with it. And I like complaining about it. The thing that's not fun though is that they're so smart and they have the young talent that they can kind of just plug it over whenever they have a hole. If it doesn't work out like Kyle Tucker didn't work out.

And he got booed and what? It doesn't matter. Like there's still be favorites to make it to the world series. Mooky, by the way, is under contract with the Dodgers until 2032. Like he becomes a free agent in 2033.

So there's still like seven years, six, seven years of mooky left.

Right. And Dodgers Hall of Famer, Red Sox Hall of Famer. Dodgers. Yeah, he's one more. He's one more world series with the Dodgers.

Three, now maybe four. Mooky's 33 months. He's 35. I've Teh Oscar's 33. Otony's 31.

Freddie 36. By the way, really fun team to go see in person. Which is like, every guy that comes in, like, hey, that guy. Oh, that, you know. And when we I went Saturday night, but when when the Red Sox swept them, it felt like a real achievement.

It's like, yeah, we've the Saturday night game, which the Red Sox kind of tried to throw away.

Cause they thought that was the game there and he had smoked.

And then all of a sudden, cause contraris was out. And they beat them and it felt like a real achievement. Next question. The, the, the Adley trade the Red Sox made. Where you have this guy you're trading for.

And they gave up a bunch of prospects. There's something to bait about how great those prospects actually were. There was only one guy in, um, Keith Laushtop 50. But, um, you're trading for a guy who you have for this year and then next year and then he's a free agent. But there might not be a next year.

So you're trading all this stuff for a guy. It might be two months and then next year might not even happen.

“Which, the bundle, would you even have gone all in on these guys when you don't know if next season's even happening?”

Uh, I talked a couple of front office people. They said that that led to a lot more controllable guys getting dealt this off season. But there's trade deadline rather because they felt that those medium term deals. Might not have the kind of value they normally would have. And thus they were more likely to move them.

And I think that was especially the case with Rochman where one he's already kind of getting pressed out for playing time. Yeah. The silo coming up and maybe being better to he hasn't been very healthy the last few years. And he's played through injury and missed time. And three like did he want to resign with the Orioles even if there was baseball next year?

I'm not so sure. So I like I understand why Orioles fans are upset. And I wrote about this for the ringer like yeah. It feels like they're asking us to trust the prospects again and push in the can down the road. But I'm not sure what Adley's actual value was to ball tomorrow anymore.

But I think it's very clear what his value was to Boston. Well, he said, but if he's healthy is a top five catcher, which was the single worst part of the team. Billy, what happens? The Marlins have done this a few times. The rebuild.

But then it's another. The rebuilds supposed to pay off and it doesn't. So now you're in the rerebuild. What do we call this? I mean, this is called my life as a baseball fan.

So this is how it works is you go out. You get these guys. You develop them. It doesn't end up working out. So then you say, you know what these pieces just don't fit together.

But like we're like trust us. We're going to we're going to really make it right this next time around. And then it just becomes like an endless cycle where you kind of trust them. And then what in my lifetime what happens is then the, you know, owner eventually sells the team makes a giant profit.

They leave the new owner comes in and says, you know what none of this is going to work out. Trust us renewed a town. We're going to fix this situation. And then they end up going and they end up trading people. Do you guys think to go back to your question that you ask about the trades and

you know, whether it's worth it or not?

“Do you think there's teams that made trades taking on contracts?”

Thinking, you know what? Maybe I don't have to worry about this contract next year. Like I could be taking on money that I may not have to pay if there is a lockout. And it led to teams thinking like, let's be overly aggressive because this felt like a very aggressive trade deadline compared to past years where teams were going for it.

Or teams were saying, you know, what?

Like the third Wildcars, but they're like, ah, I'm not going for it anymore.

Like I'm going to just take some prospects for two games out three. Well, that was the Luis Castillo trade because on paper. And I were in first place in our L keeper league. So I'm Castillo is one of the 40 pictures we've been studying. Like Castillo's kind of washed.

“And he was making, you know, I think he was making like 22 million this year next year.”

They actually, the Mariners got a prospect back. Got them to dump got them to take the entire contract. It's like that's crazy. You're taking two years of Castillo. But then like what Billy said, maybe you're taking two months of Castillo, right?

And if there might not be baseball next year and then you're not paying anything. Well, for the White Sox fans, too, I think that trade was more like, look, we're going for it. Even though like Luis Castillo is not going to probably be a different person. Not a bit of my list. Oh, I mean, he's been on my fantasy team and it's been a disaster.

But like he's a guy that's a name. So it's kind of like, if you're a White Sox fan, you're going through all these years of Hell as a White Sox fan. Wow, like this is a guy that they're getting like I'd recognize this name. He was good once, maybe a change of scene rule will do it for him. Right.

I like the Adley trade, but the prospect of a lockout followed by. Haven't given him like a crazy amount of money after the lockout. It's a little concerning. But I feel like you got to push ships in though. We have to.

Look at the American League right now. You have to. This is going to be my next question. The Red Sox could go from being the worst team in the American League to being the AL champs in a four month span. Right now on Fandel.

They have the third best odds to win the AL.

They're six to one. By the way, the Yankees are the favorite of plus two twenty. We might not see Aaron judge again this year. This is been a film. They've been in the fucking room.

Right. And then the way they talk about say, no, no, it's it's progressing. It's like all this like gooply Duke, whether it's this. Yeah, he should be good. He's progressing well.

He's got like a major rib injury and he's a six foot seven guy. He weighs 280 pounds and I don't. I don't think we're going to see him again. Do you the bundle? Jacko doesn't either.

He was tweeting about it. Jacko does. Jacko is convinced that they're lying about this. They're hiding. He's more hurt than than they're thinking on that.

I mean, the Yankees still have the three starters are. Those guys are back now and that's still the scariest thing in the American League is those three guys and we're on a playoff series. But they're bottom 10 and in offense. That's what they're doing. That's what they're doing.

They're going to have the two players who are going to be on the roster next year with Garcia and Ramos. It felt like a little bit of a. Let's not burn our prospects chasing 26. If we don't know that Aaron judge is going to be back. Maybe he's back for the playoffs.

But how healthy is he, right? In theory, he'd have missed four months by then. Right. He hasn't done any baseball activities.

“So I think the Yankees actions speak a whole lot louder than their words.”

You were. You were an excited about Luis Garcia Jr's home run yesterday. Ernie is. Why wife's first game? I actually slapped Ben Glicksonman and then five weeks later the bullpen gave up five runs.

That was one of the games in the year. They were down six nothing came back took seven, six lead and then gave up seven runs in an inning. And the same. Right after he was terrible. He was terrible.

Um, to see Yankees read so the Red Sox, the thing flipped when they swept the Yankees at the end of June. Right. And then contraris got into it. The nationals and all of the sudden it's going. I will say this because this Red Sox thing is made no sense as it's happening.

And I've actually been watching the entire time. This has been happening. It doesn't. I was even I went. I took my wife for the Dodger game and I'm like.

Yeah, this guy, I'm on a stereo like. He'll have a big hit there in this game. I have no explanation for it.

“I think I was 29 and it's got like a 190 batting average career.”

Um, but their both pens really good. And they, they got a, the Giants lefty. Would they finally give up on Marcelo Meyer, which, um, I think Red Sox fans had already given up. But this, this Red Sox, they have this bullpen now that if they can just get to like the six seven thinning they did this against the Dodgers. They can just keep bringing guys out that.

Hold the lead if they have a one when lead. I'm actually billion, I'm, I'm weirdly optimistic. I can't explain it. If you still feel the way you once felt about the Red Sox, especially like with the Yankees. Like, do you still hate the Yankees the same way that just with every bone in my body?

Really. Yeah, like I have the Yankees on, I have the three TVs.

I always have the Yankees on a TV to root hoping they lose and hoping like yesterday was a dream.

Just this guy's just getting bomb, they leave him out. That's another guy comes up, another two run home, or it was awesome.

You got the wildcard race here.

Well, here, this is maybe a division race. This is one of the questions I had for you. Like, who do you like in the American League? I know you, I know you guys are both nationally guys, but you go through and like the White Sox are plus nine fifty. To win the penit. No, Texas is 16 to one.

And probably they tried to sell, right? Cleveland's 11 to one, Seattle's eight to one, that like everybody thought they might completely got the team. Really, it's a three team race with a wildcard that might come out of nowhere between Seattle, Houston, Young White Sox. Cleveland kind of dabbled around the edges.

“I don't know about them in Texas, but if you had to pick a team to bundle, who would be the out of nowhere team in August and September?”

It's still Seattle. If you base off priors, all my Seattle buddies are given up. They were, they kind of soft sold with Castillo, but again, I thought they were just dumping salary there. And then they have prospects that can call up your guy Kate is in the waiting to probably come out of the bullpen. And potentially save their their middle relief in the playoffs, because they're really short handed there.

This offense, I mean, it's like looking around at Josh Nailer, hey, man, you're going to hit anytime soon. And Cal Raleigh, you're going to do some, you know, it's like, this is all time flip season. Oh, that's the team. And the way the bracket sets up, Tim Bay, where wins the division is going to be the one seed. Then four, five is going to be the other two, Boston, New York probably. So they're on going to be on one half of the bracket.

So you have one of the winners of the Western, the central has to be in the ALCS. And I'm not sure any of them are any good. I mean, again, Texas tried to trade to grom. I'm said, no, the white socks feel like a year early. They've had a great season. But I don't think their their bullpen is competitive long term in a playoffs series. It's like Cleveland, baby, because they've done it before.

They haven't. They haven't eaten a close or Cleveland at least. So I don't like anybody. I had to see out. I had Seattle to have surprised the odds were that high. The Cade piece is a wildcard.

Cade's having like one of the great minor league seasons in the history baseball. Who Keith law made it in the number one prospect on his revised list last week. And he said it was the first time he's ever had a pitcher first, which seems notable. And he's going to come in at the August 15th. He's on our keeper team. We really need him.

And it seems like they're just going to use him as that this guy that will come up every once in a while on the playoffs, the young, phenom guy who doesn't start. But has these big innings, like, you know, and just as in the mix. And it seems like they're saving him for that, but they still have to actually get to the play. I've got to get to the playoffs.

“Billy, is it so fair to be scared to Texas, even though they're 16 to one?”

Like they're bad. They've had some injuries. They have, I think they play 12. They're next 19 in home.

Texas and August is always a nightmare.

They have a volley. They have the grum. Like I still have my eye on them as like a sleeper. I mean, it's hard to trust them when they have a minus 40 run differential. You don't I mean, like I guess things could turn around.

But they're only a couple games out of the wild card. But not that run differential is, you know, and I'll be all, but it is kind of telling. It's like, if you're that much of a difference, how much of this is kind of like you've been getting lucky here that you're in. You know what I mean? Like, if you go down, you look at a team like the Tiger Tiger to plus 63.

There may have game behind them, but there's so many teams. I mean, the AL really, like you were saying, has a couple teams at the top. And then it's somewhat wide open. The rest of the way, and it's going to kind of be like who wants it more. You see what Skipshoomocker did the other day, by the way, since we're talking about Texas manager of the Texas Rangers.

He was going out there as a game against the Astros on Sunday. And it was the seventh inning. They ran out of challenges. So they couldn't, you know, challenge the strike zone anymore. Goes out starts arguing with the umpire.

But it's the seventh inning. Take me out to ballgame happens. Whatever. Then god bless America starts. Oh, so Skipshoomocker and the umpire both, you know, turn, take off their caps.

Hopefully, sit through god bless America. Then they go turn back around, put the hats back on it. Go right back. Yeah, to get them tossed out of the game immediately after. That's awesome.

I love baseball and baseball can these things happen. Yeah, the Phillies wanted to walk off ABS last night. It's great. Yeah. I took my wife Saturday.

We hadn't been to a baseball game in a couple of years. And we did the take me out to the ballgame.

First of all, she had a great time.

It was a great day. But to take me out to the ballgame. She was just like, "Is this the best tradition in any sport?" Does she do the one two three strikes you're out? No, we did the hand.

We do the, we do, we yelled red socks when it's, and it's. You root root root root for the, for the Dodgers. We, we yelled red socks. Red socks. Yeah.

She did not do the hand for the one two three. No.

“But it, I was wondering, does basketball need this?”

Could there be at the six minute time out? Could there be something that unites the crowd?

But yeah, something. Let's see. Could something happen there. Just to be organic though. Right before crunch time, just something, I guess not.

“I think it's better if it's team specific.”

Like we saw this at the World Cup, even like certain teams had their songs or their moves or their, Yeah. The drumming or the rowing or something. One draw was revived. Right.

Hello, I really missed the World Cup. It was like a real board. The next like, when there weren't games every day, it was like, it would draw almost. I'm getting an MLS bill.

Knowing it for the first time in like 10 years. I'm a lot. I'm been locked in the union of one three and a row trying to try to fill the voice somehow. I don't see this thing. I mean, I've made a decision on the Premier League, by the way, because I'm getting both.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'm getting out of the hour. Should I save this? I'm going to go back to Tottenham.

Let's go. Yeah. Yeah. I had my buddy David Niam and who lives out here is a huge Tottenham.

And he said me, and he's like a very nice, like gentle, congenial guy never gets mad.

He sent me a long text. He's like, what the fuck? You can't switch teams. You picked a team. You have to come back.

Like, we'll watch games. This would be great. That was like all right. So I'm doing some, I'll be leaning on you to bundle. But I'm doing some recon.

I will be going back. This is my official announcement bill. I will be returning to Tottenham. I'll be returning to Tottenham. I'll be returning to Tottenham.

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It was a great opportunity for us fifteen years ago. When we were covering wrestling and really throwing ourselves into it, there was nothing else going on. Do you see? Do you see? I remember very well the first time we talked at Grantland and you called me on the phone.

We were just like, "What is a wrestling column look like?" We didn't know what the world would want. What could even happen? We've come a long way, I guess. So do you think the ASPAN thing's helped?

Or it's neutral. I think it's helpful.

“I think more than anything, it's thrown a lot of these questions into stark relief.”

You know, it's like now every single insider he wrestling conversation is like trying to read TV's about how excited ESPN is or unexcited or how pleased or unpleased they are with the numbers. They got last month. I think if it weren't ESPN, it probably wouldn't feel quite as dire every time new numbers come in or whatever. But you know, the acquiring WWE is an interesting move for ESPN.

I think it's worthwhile, but it's always been very transactional.

All of their various, you know, over the top, you know, homes. It's always been, you know, they had the WWE network. And then when they went to peacock, it was like, because the Olympics got canceled. You know, because of COVID and suddenly peacock was like, "How do we get more built-in subscribers?" And WWE at that point came with like 1.5 million, like diehard fans that would follow it anywhere.

You know, that's same for Netflix. Wait, it always gets good. Exactly. We're doing live. This is a good fit for us.

Yeah, they're always in the right place at the right time. But I think that actually in terms of just like the synchronicity affecting the bottom line. Like the ESPN WWE partnership like make like increased WWE's numbers in any sort of crazy way. We haven't really seen evidence of that so far. I think it's the audience.

I think the audience is always the audience. Yeah, that's why I said neutral. I just think the audience just moves to wherever the product is and that's it. Now, I think if the product, you know, if something, if it catches fire again, if the cycle, you know, goes back up quicker than maybe we would guess.

“I think it being on ESPN as a huge help, just because people know where ESPN is, right?”

They're like, they're more likely to potential fans are more likely to stumble across it. You know, in places like ESPN and even Netflix, then just being on TV, like in the old. The biggest thing they need to figure out with all the fun is. If you're going to be the good guy unstoppable guy. That's really hard to pull off.

So hard. It's incredible. It's way easier to be. Yeah, it's way easier to be the. I'm actually, there's a darkness to me.

I'm a mad guy and I'm a bad guy who is unstoppable and you just keep throwing these baby faces at me. And I'm just going to keep nail on them. And I wonder a lot of time how they play that with them. I think you see this in the way he's been booked already. They had him win the king of the ring tournament because he was the most deserving, I guess, in terms of what people thought that stage.

But the winner's supposed to get a title shot at Summerslam. And they just had to say, yeah, forget about that stipulation. Let's have him fight Brock Lesnar instead. I mean, the Brock matches a bigger match. Yeah.

But I think I think the distance from now to at least WrestleMania,

“the entire booking strategy has to be keep Oberfinni away from the title.”

Right. Because it's it's because you're right. It's hard once he gets the belt. You know, I mean, the undertaker got that title run early in his career when he won from Hogan, you know, and Tuesday and Texas. So we're, you know, lost it back immediately.

Sorry. And, and, but that wasn't. That in the Hogan era, it was really hard for someone to feel unnointed. You know, now this is a real unnointing. You know, well, you also, if he's the biggest attraction you have or potentially going to be that, you don't necessarily need to give him the title anyway.

No, you don't, but it's, you know, it's just harder and harder to come up with reasons for him to go out and fight it right at big events when the title is not involved. So it's just a matter of like I was saying before it's delayed gratification or whatever, you know, you have to figure out a way to stretch it out.

You know, amateur WWE booker. I think he needs, I think he needs a little bit of a group. I think he needs it.

Like, I still feel like that four horsemen type of type of thing. Like, he needs unstoppable people around him or he's the leader of it. And then you could kind of flip him being a bad guy or he could be the guy. He wants this so badly. He wants to own WWE and be the power.

In these years, people, but now the his side kicks are starting to push the envelope a little too hard. This is who he wants to be and like, I would go that direction. I like when somebody like him is flanked with other people. I agree. I mean, listen, you're kind of describing what Roman Reigns has figured out that worked over the past, you know, five years or whatever.

“So it's, but I think you're absolutely right.”

I mean, you said four horsemen, the worst legacy of the four horsemen, is it any time for wrestlers get together on screen? Oh, it's like a new four horsemen, but not as good, right, but like three four, like four competent wrestlers being friends seem is should just be a renewable resource, right? You know, just put these guys. So he'd have to be so much genuine. Yeah, but I think so. I mean, listen, they sowed the seeds of him being a Paul Hayman guy last night.

So, you know, maybe, you know, Hayman had the dangerous alliance. There's always opportunities.

A, W, just kind of over here now. What is this a battle anymore? What's going on? I don't think it's a battle. I mean, I mean, listen, listen, I don't know a lot of people that don't have to choose not to watch one of the other because of time, but I'm sure that's a real thing for people. I don't really know what the battle would be. A, W has really good product and they're still doing things that WAB is not doing. Yeah. I mean, I just think that, you know, the ceiling didn't quite come off the industry in the same way, but A, it up he's making a lot of money from Turner and, you know, I think they're next contract negotiation will be interesting because I don't put it past WAB to try to somehow like get in between the two parties or you know whatever.

“But that's more of a business thing. That's not about like content. I think A, W, does really, really great stuff.”

Um, and I, but I think that both companies kind of are where they are right now, you know, like I don't, people talk about ratings all the time. I really couldn't care less of like, No, it's probably, it's probably B, D, W, we're like, what I mean, it does, it's just, it's just a vibes thing, you're right. I watch, so I did watch the reins, um, The running trial and smash. We watch that Ben and I, I broke Ben and I watching at least some of it. He's too cool for all this stuff now. It'll, he'll, he'll circle back because this was happening to age 24.

Feel like it'll come back a little. But, um, I, you know, I didn't have Dean Amber us in the back of my head as a, as the big surprise. And I don't think I was alone. And the shield coming back. And, uh, but that didn't happen. There was no big, in the, in the two days summer time, there was no big holy shit. Oh my God, this guy didn't happen, right? Uh, like crazy comebacks or whatever. Just like, he's back or this guy's back. No, whoa, this guy.

“We're all last night, we had big cast. I think they saved that. I think the roster of summer slam is now just, you know,”

big of thing is the roster WrestleMania. But no, summer slam didn't have those moments. And I think that was because they wanted reins and Rollins to feel Final, you know, to feel like, you know, like a real serious thing. And by the way, he died of post reins after he wanted like an interview outside the ring. Just like he's a real, you know, like a real athlete would do like a baseball player would do. Um, but, but yeah, I mean, the Dean Ambrose thing, my, my co-host on the mass man showcas is, was came, came away saying, there's no way they would have done that if they didn't think that Dean Ambrose might come back.

Dean Ambrose, by the way, is wrestling under a different name as John Moxley in AEW and seems very happy there. Uh, he's very, he said how happy he is there. A but never come back and all this kind of stuff. I mean, you never say never in pro wrestling. Um, I don't think that what we saw at summer slam and they were winking at him doing his moves, you know, do it. I'm referencing him vaguely on air. To me, that was less of a, you know, of WWE having a secret deal with him and probably more of a sort of

long-term contract and a long term like wooing process. You know, it's just like, hey, just so you know, we haven't forgotten you.

So if you ever want to come back to do, you know, WrestleMania 50 for like a billion dollars will be here, you know, and, and I think that's always going to be on this.

I should be a Dean would be a big deal. It would be huge. That's the biggest thing I felt I think it did. Um, alright. So, so why do I have this Hulk Hogan book? So why Hulk Hogan matters? I mean, you listen, you and I, you know, are both writers who don't write a whole lot anymore. Um, but when I wrote about, I mean, obviously I've been writing about wrestling for 20 years and, and been writing about dead wrestlers from the very beginning.

When I wrote Hulk Hogan's obituary, I was just sort of floored thinking like, well, it was a lot to get out, but it was also a lot to think like, this is the last time I'm ever going to write about Hulk Hogan.

And so the idea came up to write a book. Her friends at Harper, Sean Desmond, who's edited a bunch of ringer books who was willing to take a shot on this and, and so just sort of cranked it out.

Um, it was a lot of a, for me it was like, like, I think for a lot of wrestling fans. There's so much that he did late in his life that I just hated, you know, that like really just killed me, but it killed me because of how much I loved him in the 80s, you know, how much he was how meaningful he was to me.

“And, you know, the title, I think is deliberately a little bit of provocative just like in the reverse way that dead wrestler of the week was provocative back in the day, right?”

Like, people saw the title and they thought I was going to be offensive. I was like, no, I'm talking about how much I love wrestlers. So why Hulk Hogan matters to me is both exploring why he's really meaningful to me and, you know, through much so much of his career and, you know, kind of coming to grips with everything that happened in his post wrestling life and, and what it means when like one of your idols can break your heart like that. Yeah, I went to that, it's the night before the fires, the first wrought at, uh, I'm not going to let you know, and Hogan came out and the response from the crowd was like, one of the most shocking things I've ever been in a arena for couldn't believe it.

Like people were fucking furious and booing him, he didn't know how to audible in the moment to it and that old Hulk would have immediately been like, oh, I'm going to be, I guess I'll be a heel for this and just figured out and he was too old and couldn't. But was really like mostly despised. Now, this is LA, like, you know, maybe that would happen every state, but then the fires happen the next day and it and, you know, out here, but I just felt like that was such like a weirdly big deal that Hogan got treated like that.

And but that was where it got into with the last 20 years of his life people were just fucking out on him.

“Yeah, I mean, listen, he never, I think there's a lot of people who rightly believes he never really apologized for, you know, his racist.”

You know, video, the video of him saying racist stuff, whatever and and. You know, there was a point where he famously came back to have a talk with the locker room when WWE was letting him back in and instead of saying, I'm sorry for what I said, I'm a change man, he said, be careful of video cameras.

Right, yeah, yeah, just like the words advice and the fans knew about it too, you know, so because all that stuff gets out.

But I really think for me that the icing on the cake was him coming back on that episode of raw and instead of saying, I love this business.

“I just want to wish you guys good luck. He said, by my beer, right? The whole thing was like a promo for real American beer, and I think that was just that was just the bridge too far.”

I mean, it was really hard waving the flag behind him and he can't really audible a heel turn when you're like hooking your new alcohol endeavor, you know, you got to stay. It was really, really rough and and it's crazy that it happened, it's crazy that nobody, him or WWE saw that coming. You know, and it's it's just one of the most surreal experiences for a long time wrestling fan. And especially that being the last time you really saw it. That's, that's like the ultimate warrior who had just, I mean, almost as turbulent out of the ring life, you know, he's not a great dude by a lot of estimations came back when he got, you know, putting the Hall of Fame and the fans and myself included when absolutely bonkers cheering for him and then he passed away like the night after raw like he was right.

It happened right away, but he went out on a high comparatively speaking, and you know, hooking his was hooking just got boot out of the arena like literally it's pretty tough and wrestling to turn. A mass audience off with any behavior when there was, but somebody shaking people over the years of behavior that so many so many. Yeah, it's pretty well, going back to the 80s. I mean, we do these movies sometimes in the rewatchables, but that whole popcorn hero era. And to me, hooking was right there was Stallone and Schwarzenegger and everything he stood for was also happening in the movies simultaneously.

But yes, that's, it's funny because you, you know, he never reached the success and I write about that in the book, but he never reached the success in Hollywood obviously of Sloan and Schwarzenegger despite being lumped in with them all the time. You know, looking back, hooking was more of the, the American icon than the bigger stars were, I mean, he represented this country more, you know, as he looked back and we have these conversations for years, right, he looked back and it's like, like, you know, the Reagan era, whatever, hooking was the Reagan era, you know, hooking was like everything that we aspired to be at that time.

But everybody in the 80s, where it's like, take your vitamins and meanwhile, he was like, two more stars and everybody. That was the 80s. He's the most amazing, he's the most like quintessential American icon of that decade to part of what I'm when I was writing while he'll go, and matters, the thought process is like,

But yeah, I mean, honestly, that that that 80s, the popcorn movie era was just, it's incredible. I mean, you talk about rewatchables. There's like, there's never a time where you say no to a Schwarzenegger movie or, you know, an 80 Schwarzenegger movie or still low movie when they pop on. Yeah, it was way down.

“Never was able to put the puzzle piece together for a movie career because I think he was so big of a personality and the wrestling side, you couldn't kind of buy and play in a character where Schwarzenegger better.”

Yeah, Schwarzenegger, and the thing though, the stunning thing is when he looked at how bad Schwarzenegger was it acting in the beginning, like could somebody not of held Hulk Hogan's hand through a movie like this, or whatever, but thunderlips is probably a better five minutes in than any scene. Yeah, I don't think I ever had a movie, but Hogan couldn't figure it out. But here's, but here's the thing, I think Vince senior Vince's dad who told Hogan he couldn't be in Rocky three. Yeah, was kind of right. I think wrestlers on the scale of Hulk Hogan, we just feel like we know them too well and it's harder even than with an actor to see them play another role, I just think there's a weird disconnect there that like, and that's part of what I came to why, you know, a lot of white Hulk Hogan, why wrestlers in general can affect you.

So it can affect me so much, it's because you feel like you know him, it's because you feel like even though he, we know he's playing a character, I feel like Hulk Hogan is like a figure in my life, you know, and it makes it hard for him to be a movie star. Yeah, it's where this is happening in professional sports too, where there's guys that were everybody idolized who are some of the best people ever played and then they just turned out to be pieces of shit. And it's like, well, how do you reconcile? Like Pete Rose was the most famous baseball player when I was growing up and then it's like, oh, he's actually a piece of shit and it's like, well, what does that mean when the reds one, two world series in a row and you just kind of have to move the pieces around your head, but it never feels great. And I think with Hogan.

And it's not even just a racist at all, all of that side of it. He really seemed to be reviled by all the people behind the scenes for how self as she was and how he always put himself over their eyes. Yeah, I mean, listen, I always say that he, I mean, he was for fans like me who were like on the internet during those days like Hogan stories about Hogan is how we learned about backstage politics, you know, all the weird stories about Hogan refuse to do this job.

At the same time, you had like Rick Flare refusing to do job. You know, like everybody refuse to do jobs, but Hogan became like the icon of it. Well, that's not going to work for me, brother.

“That's what we say all the time. And when he, and yes, when he was doing the end of your like he had a, he had a contract and the piece of contract that said he had creative control, right.”

And that generally is a thumbs up thumbs down. Part of me thinks that like, you know, people that had the champions had to factor creative control forever, you know, it's a he, if back in the day you just, I mean, you didn't have to show up, you know, like you want to hold the belt like, you know, you can do whatever you want. But, but I do think that things were moving too quickly in the in the Monday night wars era and those sorts of like I'm not losing to that guy happened.

That doesn't work for me, brother, was happening like 20 minutes before show time, you know, and unlike their lives all the time, and so this becomes such a huge problem.

And also when you're like, when you have that kind of power, you can't see the forest for the trees. You could talk about how, you know, that all you want to do is make money and and get and build the business, but like it's hard. You're, if you're the one making the calls, you can't you can't tell you can't tell what's working. You're always going to be selfish. Well, it was and it was a Lebron like career where you have the whole long peak, right, which is the 80s and early 90s for Hogan.

“And then you have the end W. Oh, he'll turn that whole thing, which I think is the greatest moment in the history wrestling in terms of impact shock value, the crowd reaction. I just think that's number one.”

But then you have that last thing, which may be for Lebron will be the sixers if they win the title, but when Hogan has the great match against the rock and then finally ends up winning the title and has this one last kind of moment that I think seemed inconceivable.

You're talking at that point and that's that's almost a three decade career of him being relevant, which for wrestling is really unusual.

If you, I mean, I don't disagree about the turn about the heel turn. It's certainly, you know, we top two or three moment of of our lifetimes. I mean, and could very easily be number one, Hogan versus the rock. I mean, you wouldn't have to bend yourself too hard to say that's like the best wrestling match of all time. Certainly wasn't the best, like, technical wrestling match by a long shot. And then like him versus Andre is the biggest wrestling match. Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's going to end in terms of what wrestling pro wrestling can accomplish.

Yeah, I mean, he's he's obviously one of one in terms of his impact on the business and it's just crazy to think that like, you know, for the last decade of his life, he just wasn't really a part of it.

“Also, I don't think anyone ever held on to a receding hairline better than Hogan, like to the bitter end, he was like holding off the cliff.”

Yeah, I'm not going to give up rather when they did the book cover, I was like, just make sure we get an angle that doesn't expose the hairline. Bruce, Bruce, Richard, you know, who's an executive at WWE was a big producer for a while said that they would spend like tens of thousands of dollars back in the 80s trying to find the camera angles that didn't show his bald spot until Vince realized how much money they were spending and he was like stop doing that. But like, but it is, it is incredible, man. I mean, it is, you know, there was a, there were a couple of periods. I feel like in WCW, where he had a hairpiece and it was like it was he was doing it for a movie, but he was also sort of like the Jason Alexander, like I'm also sort of trying this out for like the real life.

He bandanda, we really settled on the bandana, which I guess would have been a blue down there. Well, when he, when he, when he sued Gawker and put them out of business and that whole, that whole Travis, he happened, you remember he, there was a whole thing about whether he could wear a bandana in court. And they eventually allowed him this and like the black bandana is like the formal bandana, you know, that one was like, we know you're bald dude, just shave your head. Yeah, look, I'm not wearing my baseball cap for this for this conversation. So if I can do it, hooking can do it, man.

Well, it was, it was quite a career though, never be certainly another one with the ups and downs that that one had.

I will say, I mean, he's, we said this, you came on after he died and there's just no question he's by far the most significant wrestling figure in the history of the business and doesn't mean he was the best wrestler doesn't mean he was the greatest champ. Yeah, but he had the biggest impact and that's just, it's kind of an arguable, right?

“Yeah, yeah, it's absolutely true. I mean, we come from, from from our generation, if you want to like put our generation together, you know,”

there's some memory for people a little bit older than us of the, of the, of the big names of like the East Coast, you know, of like the, you know, the big MSG icons before Hulk Hogan. But yeah, before backland. And, but really for for our generation of fans, we got, we've got to see a lot of giant stars and so it's tempting to be like, some cold was bigger than Hogan. The rock was bigger than Hogan or like, you know, whatever, but in terms of just the lasting impact and the whole arc of the career.

I mean, it's totally feasible that like wrestling might not exist the way it does today without the rock or without Steve Austin, but to get to get to them, Hulk Hogan was necessary. Yeah, and, and the heel turn was another huge thing. He'll Hogan, I think, was really necessary for for those, some time for those, you know, casual fans, because what he allowed when he, when he turned heel in the casual fans were like, oh, like we're all in on the joke together. Like I want to be, I like, I want to, like,

there are wrestlers, outsiders always think wrestling takes itself seriously and they, we don't, you know, and so I think the Hogan was great in the 80s because he was silly.

Like, there was no way you could watch Hogan and say, like, wrestling is real, you know, right? That's what made it, that's part of what made it so accessible, you know, because then everybody's, like, oh, wrestling gets it. And I think there was a sort of reverse of that too when he turned heel. He was just so, he changed everything, like, you know, two different times. And he, for pro wrestling. And he couldn't have a friend in wrestling because that friend was always going to turn on him usually in the ring with a close line to his back.

I, I, I write about that in White Hole Gogan matters. There's a whole chapter called Hogan, the Bad Friend. He, it was Hogan's fault, man. And all of a sudden I stabbed him in the bag, but if you go back and watch it, like Hogan was in the wrong, every single time. The first one was Zorndor, which was shocking. But then it just kind of kept going and going and then. Orndor, orndor, if had a match with that he wanted Hogan for his partner and he called Hogan and the assistant said, "Hogan can't come, he's lifting weights."

Right. Like that, come on, Hogan, like, get on the phone with your best friend, Paul Orndor. Yeah, it's a little like Daniel Son in the karate kid series, like you look at it further away. It's like maybe Hogan was to deck the whole time. Maybe all these people at the right turn on.

“I mean, maybe that's why the heel turn worked because right.”

Just like, yes, thank you. Thank you.

You've finally embraced it.

And he was definitely a little inappropriate with the macho man and a mislisten with. No question. More than a little. Yeah, there's some blood on his hands anyway. All right.

Name of the book. Why Hogan matters. It is available everywhere. You can get it on your on your iPads. You can buy it in a bookstore. You can get it online. Whatever you want.

And you can listen to Schumacher on the the ring of rest like show. How's cast done it? Cas is great, man. Cas is so in the nicks after glow man. I mean, when he was there, he went to the raw after after the nicks won.

And he had Jalen Brunson and Roman Reigns, like Hogan him and letting them hold the tight.

So he's done. Like he's done. He's done.

All right. Good luck with the book.

Go buy it everybody. Thanks, Schumacher. Thank you, man. I talked to you soon. All right. That's it for the podcast.

Thanks to Schumacher and Mina and Billy and Debundo and Gahal and Eduardo as always.

“Remember, Karate Kid 2 is up for rewatchables and we might be doing 2 next week.”

So you might want to prep for Italian job and about last night, 40 year anniversary about last night. Just an incredibly important 80s movie. So that's all coming up.

I don't think I'm going to have another podcast this week unless something crazy happens.

So I will see you again on Sunday. [Music]

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