Luka’s Heater, Wemby’s Bid, and Stealth Winners of the NBA Season With Zach Lowe

[MUSIC] It's Bill Simmons podcast, we are live on Netflix, Zach Low is here. Two hungover guys, I think I'm probably more hungover than you. The Celtics looked hungover. They weren't hungover in that Minnesota game, but they had some travel stuff.

We'll talk about that. We have a bunch of NBA stuff to talk about. Wanted to mention, new rewatchables coming tomorrow with the nice guys. Great part today. See you all month.

Yeah. One more to go after this, we got LA confidential. So there you go, and you can listen to Zach's pod or watch it.

Basically, Tuesdays and Thursdays during the season, we might experiment.

Are you thinking about that Tuesday morning? Possible live? Yeah.

“Yeah, I think I need some piece of technology you need to arrive at my house to make that possible”

from what I sold. We're doing that. Okay, quickly on the Celtics, I don't want to lead the pod with them. But they got killed by Minnesota just now. And heading into the game in the eight games that Tatum was back,

they were 16th in offensive rating. And then today they stunk. They were three for 22 to start the fourth quarter in this game that they blew at home. And there's some travel stuff for it. I get it.

But they are really trying to work him back. Does not look like the same offense we watch for the first 60 games. And I'm going to be interested to see that the guards just don't have the ball as much. And everything is running through brown and Tatum now and they're kind of taking turns. And I know it's going to take some time.

But it just doesn't look as seamless as it did. So that would be my one Celtics note. If you don't know if you have any. Excellent. Well, one, one loss.

And we've got one cross half empty. Class half full as they have a higher ceiling. I get it. But I'm just saying it's it's a little rocky lately with this offense.

Uh, look, I mean, this was always why I was hesitant to just, you know, two games into

the comeback. All they've reestablished themselves as favorites in these. They do feel like to me the most coherent of the top four teams. But I've been saying all along like, does Tatum, it's, it's going to be a while. And there's going to be some up.

There's going to be, it might not, there's just going to be ups and downs. And the last couple of games have been downs, although he had a really good start to the third quarter today. I agree with you like today. There was more Tatum dancing with the ball for 18 dribbles than there had been in

previous games. And they built themselves out of a few of those possessions with open threes or Minnesota made a mistake leaving Richard open in the left corner on one of them when Tatum had nowhere to go. But I did feel like, you know, this is part of the process.

“I guess if him trying to feel his way back into the game is just, can I still, can I do this?”

And I think they got away a little bit from what really makes them a great offensive team. They're testing him. Like there was a couple moments in the third quarter where he had McDaniels on him who's just an absolute bitch to bring the ball up against, right? He's like, top five guys, you don't want to dribble against.

And it seemed like Masola was almost intentional. Like Jason, you take this. Like he wanted to see how he could handle going full court with the ball and trying to set the offense. So there's definitely some tester stuff.

I really like when the offense runs through white and pressured a lot instead of just them standing on the sides and they basically have 12 games here to fix it.

The problem is the next hour, a half game back and that two three thing where if you're the

two seed you, you know, those teams are all jammed together, but we don't know. We don't know, but if you're the three seed, you're playing the best, whoever's like basically riding out the best, which could be Atlanta, could be Orlando, I don't know. But and then you don't have game seven against the next and round tip. So anyway, we want to talk about Luca and we want to talk about Wimbee coming out of the gate,

a little big picture stuff. And initially I have said we're going to talk about Wimbee, but Luca, yet again, the Lakers win another one, they have this crazy road trip. They've lost two games that they just shouldn't have, shouldn't have ever in a million years, one and they won and the chemistry's great, there was golf photos of them today.

I'm thinking about this Luca moment, he's up to 33.4 points a game.

“I think he has a real case now for number three MVP, right, him versus Yokeage 3A3B, would”

you say? Oh, you're going to get, you're going to get the entire country of Slovenia is going to bombard you with like, that's insulting third to Luca third behind the way we have one. Yeah, one B has to be second.

I think right now without how good San Antonio's been. I mean, this is these four guys playing at this level right now. I do think we need to like take a moment to just pause from like the splitting hairs

Shay a couple of times in the last couple of weeks, in terms of the territory he's reaching

for guards. I mean, you can't say a more revered name in basketball. Yokeage is Yokeage just every season is crazy. When B you said was the best player that you had seen this entire season, I don't really even disagree with you on his best nights defensively.

It's like, I don't even know that I've ever seen anything like this. And then all the way here comes Luca averaging 33 a game and regularly hitting 40, 50, 60 the other night in Miami, carrying a Lakers team who's 21 games or 500.

“And we know what Luca, this is going to be a sixth straight first team all NBA, I think.”

Yeah. Or something like that. I mean, like these, I wonder if we went back and looked at when did we have four guys playing at this level? I mean, this is even better than the Westbrook Hardin LeBron MVP race from 2017.

Why whatever, this is crazy stuff that these four guys are doing off the top of my head.

I was going to say 87, which magic one, MJ, I think, finished second bird was third.

And I forget who was fourth, but maybe it was a team. It's going to be a year like that. Yeah. 90 was the other one where the had the was magic, Parkley, somebody else awesome. And then Hakim and Hakim, I think finished fourth and had like a crazy season.

But yeah, it's pretty rare to have the four, which is why I wanted to lead with it because since he all started Lucas that basically 35 a game, eight, eight, eight. First team all NBA's happening. If you talk about like big picture, 16 guys ever have had a 34 point of game season. And he has a chance to do it.

The last guy that did it was Hardin, Luca came really close. He was 33 point, eight, six. Hardin did it twice. And then you're just talking about the usual will to all those guys. What I like about it though, he hit that rut during the middle of the season where I was

like, this kind of sucks. And this was like all this stuff, I didn't like about Hardin ball, but none of the fun stuff with it. And it doesn't seem like the team is connected it anyway. And we're just watching him just get mad at people and not play defense and they just

didn't like the vibe. And now it feels like everybody has bought into what's happening with him. Okay, this is I've been on so many texts with Laker people, Luca fans, everybody like do you think this is real? What do you think?

What do you think's going on here? The biggest difference to me, which I mentioned Thursday night was LeBron just kind of buying into it. But the other thing is, you can kind of look at kind of where's it on a sleeve, don't you think?

When you watch him, you kind of feel what kind of mood he's in, I was trying to think, what other players have been like that?

“Where you can kind of tell us you're watching them, what the vibe is?”

Those guys are pretty much consistent night after night in some way, right? But Luca, it's like, oh, he's in one of his good Luca stretches, but you can kind of see it what has happened. Does it make sense? Yeah, I mean, is it real?

Yeah, it's real. I know it's real because we've seen it before. This is why we all thought it was insane that the metrics like willingly traded this guy because we've seen it. But like all of the stuff you're talking about when they were in a run a little bit, all

that was true, and I don't really even know what changed, but the the words that I've been using for the last three or four weeks is zip. He's just got a new like, not new, but like, it's not his meandering and just he's more straight line drizzly, he's splitting double teams and like, it's faster and more decisive. And it's translated to defense where he's getting like steals, he's getting in passing

lanes, he's taken charges, like he just looks, I almost wonder if this is just purely speculation, if there was like a minor injury that he got over something because he just is playing, he doesn't play fast, so to speak, but he is playing at a different speed,

“I think in the last month, but like you can find them, there were people who actually”

wrote columns that were like, maybe Nico Harrison was was not totally wrong, I understand his thought process. That should be directly, curiously deleting the columns right now from from the way back we shoot. I did have a theory on this because this is basically since the all-star game and the team has geled in a different way and they really do seem like a team. It's after

the trade deadline, I don't think that's a coincidence. And this has happened a few times with LeBron teams, but then especially with this team where they had all these inspiring

contracts. And I always think we underrate this as, as, you know, media members, people

that watch the league, study it, try to figure out trends that those six weeks before the deadline, when everybody's just in trade rumors constantly. And even like somebody like Austin Reeves like Rich and Max are doing their pod and he's talking about, can they pay Austin Reeves could, could they possibly trade him and then people like, why is he saying that? Is he trying to get that? And there was just all the soap opera stuff. And

the trade deadline makes it go away. It's like, well, this is your team now. Luke

Andrea, it's up to you, buddy. We don't really have anybody else. You're going to have to be the center LeBron. You can pass the progressively do whatever you can. You're going to be on the team till the rest of the area. They're by and are don't. And I don't know, I just, we've seen this happen before, where the all-star break is this before and after point. And people are like, I guess we're here. I guess this is our team. And that's

it. And it, and it started to look different when LeBron was heard. And I don't know if that just clarified things for Luke and Reeves. Like, there was just a simplicity to, I can

just go. And even if he is the third option, he's LeBron James, and I know he's over

there. And I'm thinking about it sometimes. And then he came back and he's been the absolute perfect version of himself that this team needs that he needs to be probably on any team that he's on. He's had a bounce. Did you see when he blocked somebody took a shot after the whistle in the Houston game and LeBron went up and did the KG and blocked it. So when

“I hit the rim, I did. Okay. You got your legs back. I think you're trying to show us.”

I also saw the six dunks that he had in that game. They look, they look really good. And I ate and is like, we all like to make jokes about it. And although I was, I was like the only one saying, maybe this would work. Luke has started to trust him a little bit more just with like, I'm just going to hand it to you early in the play. And I came up with

what game I was watching dead where he would, they would blitz Luca, whatever team there

playing and ate and would short roll and Luca would throw these like, they were like baseball popups. They would, they traveled like three feet, but went way high up and there's all right. This is the quickest way for me to get it to you. Big guy go and they would make plays out of it. It's just like it's kind of humming right now. I'm torn because that's a basketball fan. I think this is great because it's just, there's so many stories just

out of this team. And LeBron, maybe being in the mix one more time, Luca, maybe getting

“a shot at redemption against a couple different teams. The fact that we could have San Antonio”

LA and round two, like there's all these like cool pieces of it. As somebody that can't stand the Lakers, this is a fucking nightmare. Every Laker fan I have. You love it. You love it. You come on. Now at the other Laker fans, and I'm sticking about it, the only real great season

they've had since basically 2010 was the bubble season where basically the last 10 games

in all the playoff games happened in outer space, right? There were nobody at the games. There's no parade. You're just kind of watching on TV. Everyone's in COVID. Nobody can be around to their people. And it was just this bizarre thing that happened over here. They haven't had like a really fun, like the last really fun Lakers moment. I think that you can think of during a season was when Kobe kept. Remember when Kobe was like, I've had it. I'm playing 48 minutes every single

game. I'm just I've lost my mind. He was just like, if we're going down and play it every bit it and he had that crazy run and then he finally ended up getting hurt. But that was the last time I

“remember every Laker fan in my life just constantly asked me, what do you think? What do you think?”

Not even conference finals when they lost to Denver in 2023. No, because I don't, I don't. Do you think people felt like they were going to win the title that year with the team they had? No, I don't. I think it was more like, wow, I can't believe we've made it. This is different. I think because people are thinking we could, with Luka, we can be to anyone in a playoffs series. Like, he might be the best part in the league for all we know what he's doing. We'll, we'll take

our chances against SGA name the guy will go. So who knows. And I don't think that's international thought he's proven it in the playoffs over and over again, including in series where his team like Dallas may not have won those series against the clippers, but they were clearly the inferior team and they pushed the clippers to the limit twice and like it's he's terrifying to face in the playoffs. I got an interesting email from Spencer and Toronto who said with the Lakers new

ownership money should they be investing in elite insider hacklers for key playoff row games for Luka plant people court side and try to just have them engage Luka and make him mad so then he takes it out on the other team and he says conspiracy bill will have to do background checks on all these court side fans who spur him on to scoring 62 in Oklahoma City in a game for. I don't think it's a bad idea. I support it. It's an interesting sort of like the wall is supposed

to be the like the meanest home crowd on the version of a fan base. Would they have to instruct the wall for those games? Please be polite to lose guys. So if they're going to play like you see the goga patazay thing last night like he crossed some kind of line and Luka went from I'm going to score 60 points tonight too. I might murder you after the game if I see it and like they had teed him up. He got receipts like whatever Goga said go go under stay understood I guess Luka was speaking

Serbian and go go understood it. But Zeles apologizing after he inadvertently riled up Luka was one of the funniest moments of the season. Yeah don't round them up. So is that the best Chicago

Chicago bull's this season. I think it's this. I think I got I was going to read you this later. This email from Matt from Charlottesville, Virginia. Obama did a video with Anthony Edwards to promote the presidential library in Chicago because there's no one on the bull's who could make a promotional video work. Is this the lowest that's ever gotten for the bull's? It's a great point.

“Obama they were like you could have any bow and Obama's like what about Anthony Edwards?”

He's not in the soda. Can I use him instead? The presidential library is in Chicago. That's got to be the low point other than them not paying the luxury tax for the 90s straight year. I'm glad we shoot one of the bull's of the, sorry you were going somewhere else. Well, I was going playoff matchups. Yes, Lakers. So I mean it could be Minnesota could be Minnesota

in Denver at the same record. The Lakers are going to be the third seed now unless something crazy happens.

They have a basically a two and a half game lead over everybody with 12 games left playing really well. They have some home games coming up. So they're going to be the three seed. They're going to play their Minnesota Houston or Denver. I would say Denver would be the team. They wouldn't want to play except do you want to do the, what's wrong with Denver? Now are you want to, want to shelve it for later? What's just here quick 30 seconds on

“with the odor. I just don't like the scent in the car. Did you leave a tune for sandwich back here?”

What is that? Today was an interesting step for them. I don't know if you saw that game today. I did. Peyton Watson came back and looked good. Cam Johnson is, this was the kind of game that we thought Cam Johnson would have once a week for the nuggets where he just makes five threes and two quarters and like,

"All right, this is why you know, runs a couple of D.A. Joe's with Joker." The defense in the first half was

a bismal and Portland was, Denver had 75 points and was barely winning at halftime to a team that isn't exactly the 2017 Warriors on it. Yeah, the gang that can't shoot straight. And there was just the same kind of miscommunications that have been plaguing the nuggets for two, three months now, point of attack defense and not good enough. And then when they have enough of their good defense of players on the court, like two of Brown Gordon and Watson and the offense that they

can muster. Today, today kind of was not quite a warning shot. I mean, they ended up blowing out the blazers by 16 something like that and holding them to a good number in the second half.

“Yeah. It was a reminder, I think, like this team is still kind of here and they've got a little”

bit of time to figure some things out. You know, they're not playing balance units. They're playing small ball when Joker is on the bench. Murray's playing every minute again when Joker is on the bench. Like stuff is starting to happen. And yes, if I were the lakers, I would not want to play Denver in the first one. I would I would pick Denver to win that series. I don't care what the seeds are. Would you? I want to see where Denver was in 12 games, but it would be hard for me not

to pick Joker over the lakers. But if it's the Denver team, we just watch for the last three months that just doesn't play defense and falls apart and crunch time every game. I have some some mild coaching questions with them after watching Adam and Fur Year. And it's nothing beyond this. I don't know how you you blow this many games in the last couple minutes and in these over times and it just has gotten in the point where I feel like they might lose any time during

this situation. I should feel the opposite because they have Yoke and John their team. And I was thinking about it because I probably watched them the most other than the Celtics. I think they've gotten really predictable with their offense when and how it slows down and how Yoke ad centric it is.

I never felt like it was always that way. Now it's just like they spread them out, they try to

do something with Murray and they don't really get anyone else going and everybody just kind of stands there and watches. And I know it was like that to some degree the last couple years. But now I just don't think Joker wants to play that way. I don't think he wants to score 30 to 35 a game. I think he wants to be inclusive and set it on us up. And I feel like they've lost our way a little bit at the end of these games. It's just Joker, Joker, Joker every time.

It's it's hard when he's so good and he can get a good shot anytime he wants. He did it. Today was it was 10 of 18, not only took 18 shots, 22 points. It's actually one of the more interesting stats that I've been tracking the whole season is that his post touches are down to like their lowest level since he was a rookie or something. It's not anything dramatic but the last time I said to him was like 10 post-ups per under possessions which had been 13, 14,

15 in his prime years. And because it's more at the top of the cave now for him, could be that it could be just Murray. Murray has had I mean I you know I did another glance at all NBA last week. He's in there for me now. I think he's got to be in there. He's just had a sensational season and maybe it's just more him and like the guys have been in the line up to you as a comfort zone

catch knows where he is all the time. He knows where to be all the time. And so yeah you're right that we kind of got to see it for the next couple of weeks is they get healthy and reintegrate all this stuff. I just I would not want to play them if I were the Lakers and we're catching we're having this discussion at a low point for the nuggets even though they won today and a high point

“for the Lakers and I think we just need to sort of step back a little bit and remember”

who we thought these teams were is still a little bit at least of who they are. Can I root for this? I don't want them to play in round one. I think for I for per basketball for content more fun if like it's Lakers Minnesota and Denver Houston something like that

in round one and then we have the both basically both teams can advance and we have the chance to

get like okay see versus Denver San Antonio Lakers. That would be my dream final for. If you're the Lakers you probably want Houston of all the options right the way Houston's offense is kind of been sputtering and they just blitz them in two games. I don't know what to make a Minnesota because like you watch them today Randall socked in there. I'm throwing on my hands. I don't know anymore. Every time it's the castan's the castan that you're spotting dimes on the on the floor you're

seeing you're eating on your hands. What's going on with you? They're that in this year. I don't know what to expect from them. I even Chris Finch on the sidelines just I don't think he he called those two timeouts when the wolves were winning by like eight or ten points in the fourth court. Yeah.

Like one bad possession and he was just like stop it. We're stopping now. One Randall turn over

a 12. That's it. Time out another time out. I'm not letting this go on anymore. I don't think he knows well let's do it. They did beat they did whoop the Lakers last year in the playoffs and LeBron is still 41 like who knows well how much his body can take. I don't know who looks the freshest is. They don't know if there is an Italy trip. What's walk through

“how do the Wakers actually get to the finals as a thought exercise? I think step number one”

in the three six not having Denver there. I think Houston or Minnesota has to be the succeed because I think they could be either one of those teams. I would pick them to win either of those series. Would you? I'm not ready to pick them over Minnesota yet. I want to see I want

Minnesota's and I want to watch for the next two weeks to see when Ant comes back what condition is

the end and can they get their shit together? If Ant's 100%. If Ant's 100%. We did see this movie last year of version of it and it did not go well for the Lakers now they're better and more cohesive right now. But I would not I would if Minnesota's healthy I'd probably pick Minnesota interesting. I did more time. Well all right so what's say Houston? Right L.A. Houston round one. Minnesota plays Denver and somehow Minnesota beats Denver.

I'm just trying to think of like the perfect L.A. situation. San Antonio Phoenix. I don't think San Antonio would lose to Phoenix. I do want to mention and I know you've seen this too. Phoenix plays San Antonio really well. They junk it up with them. They do weird shit that really physical with when be booker is whatever for whatever isn't comfortable gets the spurs and I do think that wouldn't be like a layup of a series as well as San Antonio's playing.

And then Lakers San Antonio would just have to be a classic. You guys were probably better but you weren't ready yet. We just had too much experience for you series. Even eight has experience. Eight was in the finals. You know Luka Lucas been in the finals. The bronze been in nine finals. Eight finals that I remember a lot of finals and it's just here. Oh we thought San Antonio was going to win but this is a great learning experience for them. And then they would just have to hope somebody

took out okay see because I don't think there's a chance to know that the Lakers would ever be okay see. That's the one I'm just not accepting. Well the big development of the week in the NBA

“is going to be jailing Williams coming back tomorrow because I think from what I've heard that they've”

really slow played this to the max because once the prospect of a historic season went away for them Oklahoma City just pivoted to all we care about as we in the championship. And he was starting early on it was the wrist and he wasn't shooting well and he didn't look like himself. Then that started to sort itself out. Then hamstring number one happened. Comes back has two good games to hamstring number two. The same hamstring but again happens. If he looks like jailing Williams,

I just it's hard to see anybody beating them in a best of seven series. Lakers spurs would be a lot of fun. It's the series where you look at the teams on paper going into the series and you're like this is a wipeout. Like there's just no it's really hard to make a case that the Lakers would win the series. But they have Luca and all of those series like

minute left to put them away. The whole thing feels different at that point. I would definitely pick the spurs. But I assume you would too. I would I would I just trust their depth. And there you

“ask this is a scenario for them to be the spurs. You have to go forward. You have to go forward”

three in a series. Two crazy Luca games. There's two wins. The one game where they have like the 50 to 15 free throw advantage and everyone I'm saying Antonio fouls out and then conspiracy bill has to make an appearance next morning. Like that game's probably built in and we somehow get it back to San Antonio for game seven. Young team at home. Biggest game a lot of them probably all of them have ever played in and the old veteran team and we've just seen versions of that game

get weird. I think the Lakers just need to get they would have to get to that game. A game seven in San Antonio. Let's put the young team to the fire and see how they feel. And that would be the scenario. I don't think they could beat them in six. San Antonio is too good. The one the one stat that I would track for the Lakers is turnover rate. Because that would that's been part of this secret sauce of Luca's teams. He is not he's a very low turnover player. His teams do not

turn it over a lot because of how Luca's centric the offense is. Yeah. And for a lot of this season they've kind of lost that planker their offense and they're starting to get it back. When they just it's almost Bostony. When they take care of the ball and just get a shot or a free throw in every possession. When you have that guy orchestrating it all it's it's tough to deal with. It's tough to stop when they start to lose the turnover a little bit. It gets they become more beatable. But

yet they're look they're scary. Luca's scary. Seven guys maybe six and a half. What's weird is they probably could have added at least one more guy at the trade deadline and just basically punt it on it. Like they could have done a future first or even some seconds. Somebody like Gaffer they could have turned Vanderbilt into somebody else but they kind of canard was the

only thing they did. Who's really? By the way, I'm amazing. The game winner less than it. But it

looks like seven guys. I don't know what we're going to get from Rui with he's already seems like

“he's band up. But I was actually going to ask you about the Lakers death because I think the spurs”

are not a super deep team but everyone that plays is really good and really athletic and pretty young. And the Lakers it's Rui, Laravia, Canard, Hayes is basically the bench. That's literally the bench and I don't want Brownie. Well in Vanderbilt we'll get tossed in there for two weeks and then JJ will get tired of his inability to shine and he'll be gone. It's a bench of guys that have lost coaches trust in the playoffs like multiple times. Yeah, except for Laravia who has

very little playoff experience and that makes me a little bit nervous. The funny thing about Aten who I'm still I've still given up on. I'm not changing my stance. But at least he's been in big games and teams of that success with him in April and May. Right. It's not like you're throwing

somebody out there who's never been successful ever as a professional basketball player. Like

he did win playoff series. He was on really good teams and it is lurking in there which is the frustrated internalizing thing about him and whatever version we're getting of him lately is a little closer to that 21 version. Well and he's all defend the 21 version. He weirdly plays Yokeitch like pretty well. He does pretty comfortable. Yokeitch liked the jersey swap with him was like try like you're you're you're you and me man like we're peers in eight and was like oh okay

right. Yeah. Thank you. We gotta take a break and then we're gonna do a deep dive on Wimbie. This episode of the Bill Summary's podcast is presented by Sam's Club. It is that time of the year when you just got to get in your car and go somewhere. Done that plenty of times with my life. No work. It's your ready to go. Quite like Sam's Club. Snacks, the gear, super low prices on gas.

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because saying yes without hesitation. That's the real luxury. The all new Audi Q3 made for the yes life. Learn more at AudiUSA dot com. All right. We're gonna do a little deep dive on San Antonio and Wemby. I say it on my podcast on Tuesday that Wemby and I've seen all the players was the best guy I saw in person this year. You the spot by the spot of my life. Zack low. They didn't totally

in their last 30 first in net. It's a 30 game sample. They're 21 and one and Wemby's last 22 games

seems relevant. They're 43 and 13 when he plays and you tell the audience what you texted me in this week about Wemby, about what we should do. Just I this is his third year and

“you know there's a reasonable conversation to be had already. Is he the best player in the NBA?”

It's a I'm a little shaken by saying it out loud and so I started to think like who are the youngest or who was soonest earliest into their careers to be considered possibly the best player in the NBA and he'd be just about one of the young. I mean I went through like Wendard Lebron first finished top three in MVP. Wendard Kerr. I mean Kerrine walks into the legal already at 22 because he played in college and all that at the end of the year MVP immediately

Duncan was first team all in B.A. his first season. I think he finished third in MVP voting.

You know, Shaq was top three MVP by his third season. So it's like not on Jordan was top three MVP by his third season. So it's not unprecedented but something about this. I don't know if it's that he's so he's so young. Is he still just 21? He's 22. 20 just turned 22. Yeah. It's so young and last season was like a half season for him because of the blood clots stuff.

“But I think Sha, I put Sha number one and ring her 100. I just the benefit that a doubt still”

goes to this super guard who's shooting 55% from the floor and is a very good defensive player for his position. But I do every time I watch the spurs. It's every time he has a good jump shooting game because when the jump shot is falling at like an average or above average rate you're just like I don't know. I don't even know what we're supposed to do with this guy because the defensive impact is I just think I don't know that any statistical system can like quantify what he's doing on every

single possession defensively and it's not like we all joke about the shots that aren't taken, the nope, the nope, like nope. I'm going to you turn right out of here. It even just goes beyond that it's how teams set up their offense. It's what they even set out to try to accomplish at the start of every possession. Everything is different when he's on the floor and I don't even know how to measure that because he's the most dominant defensive player. I've ever seen already and

I'm not that old but I've seen garnette in a lot of you on and Kauai and KG. I've already said KG but like you know all the guys post like 70s and I don't I don't remember anything like this. The only one I can remember over the course of history the way people talked about it was Russell that there was just no way to quantify what he was doing. They didn't even keep track of Blacks back then. That was my thought when I was there for that Cooper game Monday. It's so much

easier to quantify an offensive impact and what Luke is doing right now. We have all these different stats or what she is doing right now and and our brains kind of because the fantasy basketball aspect of it. We we tend to overate the offense compared to the defensive both are historically unbelievable and just so you make the case just what he's doing alone on defense is at least equal to what Shay and Luke and Joker are doing on offense. It's there's two sides of the court.

Everything he's doing on that end has to be like I would say around as impactful but then you

“throw in what he's doing offensively. We're basically 24 a game now and I think that's the case.”

And what we you've mentioned about the think against or I would call them the re thanks. There's no way to keep track of this statistically but you can see these guys in real time we've been playing basketball their whole life who have been doing the same moves and the same rhythms and the same

things over and over again that in real time over the course of a second or like oh shit I can't do that

and they just have to add lib audible and then the offense completely falls apart for three seconds as they kind of figure out a plan B and he just does this the entire game and there we have off we had defensive ratings right you could do opposing field goal percentage you could do field goal percentage at the rim there's these stats that can kind of tell the story I don't know how you measure somebody changing their mind 30 times in a game which is what he's doing now.

So the counter argument to what you said because I I remember making an argument that quite like this when I voted who I MVP in 2017 I leaned into the there are two sides of the ball and he's maybe not as impactful as hard in his offensively but he's averaging 26 27 a game whatever but he is the best defense player in the league and I remember saying at the time like it's not 100% equal

game and a great defense player can be just out of the player randomly a third of the time or actively

“avoided a third of the time and I think when B is the exception to this I just think there's no”

playing him out of the play there's no avoiding him he is impactful defensively no matter where he is and the rethink you can see that like I don't know how like you can you can see it I don't know how you quantify it but you can see it I just think it goes even beyond that I think the entire thought process of every offensive possession but the starting when you inbound the basketball are going to defense rebound is just different when he's on the floor and when he's off the floor there's

a freedom certainty a confidence that like our entire playbook is now open whereas that's not the case with Wemby and I just think he's the exception to the well defense can't be half the game on an individual level because a defender can't impact it the same way like a ball dominant

offense player can I think he's massively impactful every single second on defense no matter where

he is no matter where you try to hide his guy no matter what you do he's there and he's in your head yeah you can't compare it to a kawaii because kawaii is basically guarding one guy or switching this is like this is a two and a half hour impact even if he's playing 32-33 minutes a game there's a few different things like like Garland was testing him the game I went to on Monday night and there was a couple times where he went to he drove into the panier like his little 10 foot

“kind of moonball jump shot issues but because of Wemby you have to really moonball it right so”

it's not a moonball now now I'm basically like I'm in a carnival trying to make it of one of those rims that's shorter than the basket all right so if he misses that Wemby didn't block it but Garland missed a shot because Wemby's 7-6 and had his hand up we don't really I don't know how we keep track about the 3-point shooting he affects I don't know 7-8 a game it seems like where he's just kind of out with his hands up and you can see the guy and then everything around the rim

guys just don't want to be embarrassed by him because they know if you challenge him so you were talking about the historical stuff and I think it's really hard I basically looked at two different things 22 and under seasons so the best seasons by guys 22 years old or younger than that and then I looked at year two players because I thought that was the best parallel because like just like it could go back in history with guys coming out of college you know the

crew was college four years Duncan was in college four years it's not fair to say like all right I look at rookie seasons with Wemby's year three I think it's too hard but year two is like all right my feet I got my feet wet now I'm ready to kind of dominate which is where Wemby is in but the 22 and under seasons Duncan's the best one Duncan the 90 die in the straight season which you mentioned finals MVP they win the title and I think at the end of the season he's the best

part in the league I think that's the consensus is he was the best start to finish player that we watched in 1999 now he finished third in MVP and I went back and I really deep though of that and it's not a great outcome it carmelone wins it I think Duncan's team had a better record Duncan stats are the same I think Duncan was a better defensive player at that point but they just gave it to the old guy and that you know we didn't have the same stats we had back then

so regardless he's won magic one finals MVP at age 20 and then he won a title and was second on BA and 82 Kobe won two in a row title second on BA at 21 and 22 and shack 95 finals second place MVP that's his third season I think right is our second season or third season that's his third season but he's 22 so good pair a lot of Wemby and then there's some others like you mentioned LeBron a couple times Derek Rose won the MVP when he was 22 so to waste on celled but what's

that state for Wemby here is has a chance to win the MVP I don't think he will but he'll finish top two and has a chance to win the title which is rarefire there and then you talk about the best year two players so I know this is a goofy one but only only three year two guys won the title that were first team all in BA which was 99 duck and 81 bird in 71 Korean and I I'm only mentioned that because I think that's the territory he's in and it feels weird to have all these

names from the first 80 years of the league and be like holy shit those are the best names we have

“but I do think that's what we're watching and that's why I wanted to talk about it because”

71 Korean was the MVP he was the finals MVP that Milwaukee team was incredible

but he had also four years of college you know he's older he was a more established identity

and it's happening over the last three months I feel like for real and you could just feel it

with that team where they're like we have the best guy but then you look at okay see and they're like we have the best guy and the makers feel that way and Denver feels that way to so you to your earlier point we have four teams right now with a chance to at least be in the finals that I'll feel like that the best guy and I think the other case there's no question that it is happening that the names that you're comparing them to are apt we all are smart enough to understand that all of

“those comparisons are contingent to longevity and titles and we all get that but that's what we're”

watching right that's the parallel track that he's on with those same players at those same ages and this level that he's reaching where you can plausibly say he has a true shooting percentage of 62% Yoka just 68 she is 67 and he might still be the best player in the league because the defensive impact is that start the other reason we know that it's happening is that the spurs are 53 and 18 like this is a real fucking team it's not like oh yeah the spurs there it's going to be the

Denver Phoenix for the six seed what a great story they're 53 and 18 with Wemby on the floor 120 points for 100 possessions and here's the kicker 103.5 allowed the number one deep 103.5 the number one defense in the NBA is Oklahoma City at 106 and they're almost 3 points ahead of number two which is Detroit at 109 Wemby is at 103.5 for the spurs with Wemby at 103.5 and it's just like yeah I mean you could you if you are you right now I'm ready to stamp it he's the best

player in the league I would still I think Shay has the throne right now and Yoka chooses right next to the throne or one of the other but they're all it's it's a three to four person race right now yeah I guess we could have different adjectives I think Shay has the right to still be the best part in the league since he's the raining finals MVP and he's going to win the MVP again they're going to win. I think maybe you could say Wemby is the most impactful

that he has picked for just playing with language like someone's got to be the best right

“that's why when I said Wemby was the best for us all in person this year I was like I kind of”

can't believe that's coming out of my mouth but I just kind of know what I saw but he now there's still a level to this in the playoffs so you could say he's been maybe he's the best regular season player we want to put it but we Shay has done it in the playoffs so his Joker Luca has done it at least until the finals in 24 and Wemby has not been in that situation before. Do you the only

so here so you would have him second MVP right now? I voted for him first and ringer 100 in our

last poll. How do you feel when you typed it in? How did it feel? I texted it to varier and I was like I have a doozy coming and I'm not doing it for content or just because it's a bit like I really think I feel this way and he just said he respected it I don't know if he thought I was crazy or if I'd been drinking but I honestly you could have flipped them either way what was interesting was Joker had

“been at the top for a couple years. I think since maybe 2023 and he got nudged down and”

you could even argue like what Luca has been doing he's kind of risen to Joker's equal lately so he's been that's kind of a thing. Lately is the key you can't wait wait you can't wipe away the period that you described as a rut from earlier in the season when his numbers were still outrageous but something you could see it something with the team and the way he was playing was a little bit off. You can't wipe that away. This is going to be one of those years where like

that 2017 MVP race like some of the 1990 when you mentioned earlier you know some years four and five on the ballot you're like maybe Jill and Bronson sure throw Jill and Bronson whatever and then some years like hey yeah like that and then other years like 2017 and 1990 you're like I have to write this guy's name in the fourth spot like this is this is obscene I have to write LeBron James number four or it's like that can we just not even do this this is I

feel ashamed of myself for doing this but someone has to be fourth. I looked up the 91 bulls because that would be if you think the spurs can actually lay it down and actually win the title

this year the 91 bulls would probably be the comparison young team kind of took off second half of the

year so they started out 30 and 14 and they finished 31 and 7 they won 61 games they finished first the net rating which I think is attainable for San Antonio the way it's going and in their version they had MJ who is the best part in the world but we still had the magic and you know there were

doing all that stupid sports stock stuff and then he laid this back down so that would be the

parallel um I guess the bigger point to me is is it like legitimately conceivable that the spurs

“will win four rounds and when we will be the finals MVP holding up the trophy and I think it's”

conceivable and I wouldn't have said that two months ago. Even when they were when they were going toe to toe the okay scene December it's like wow we have a we have a rivalry now I didn't think they could win four straight playoff rounds and now I think they could. I said it on Christmas Goldsbury asked me a point blank on my show what do you think the ceiling is for the CMS I think they can win the title. I think they can win the title. I don't the experience

question is a thing it will manifest itself at some point in some moment in some game. I just if you tell me the read if you articulate like why can't they win the title other than experience like which is a real thing but like what is actually what is an external obstacle that can prevent them from winning the title. I think the list is the thunder. I think they can beat anybody now that's not saying I'm going to pick them over Denver for sure because I have that much respect for the nuggets

but I mean who can't they beat and the only team that you could like that team is like a pretty big favorite is the thunder and they beat them four out of five times. Astrics on a couple of them

but the first three were like oh something uncomfortable is happening here.

“I like to have the Celtics played them before Jalen got thrown out and I think that's”

that's clicked by the way. Who put ref made that now? That was awful. I mean to old news but it was awful. I think that's the type of team though with like big wings that can just keep attacking because if you're going to ding the spurs on anything they're probably a little smaller than when they and maybe it's a team with size which is why okc's such an interesting matchup for them but the fact that they played okc so well I think really matters with this but that's that's a team we

saw actually affect okc. We haven't really seen anyone else do that and they're going to feel like that. Seeing them in person on Monday though thing I noticed is that they're so pretty young team offensively. They still just laps into like threes and they don't like kind of what Jalen does with the Celtics this year where it's like this our offense is going a little sideways. I'm just going to go to the basket. I'm just going to get contact try to get to the line. They don't really

have a guy like that and it's just a lot of jumpshots which might work for four rounds but that was the one it feels like they could be up 17 and they can hit a little cold stretch and you can actually come back on them especially when one be's on the bench that would be my only big nitpick other than the other thing that's going to happen and we haven't talked about this I think teams are going to be brutal with Wemby and you've already seen it during this season teams are going to

be really really physical with them they're going to bang them they're going to knock them down they're going to try to hit them hard on dunks they're just going to try to really really

“wear him down because he's seven foot six I think he might be seven seven. What's keep going?”

Let's just say eight feet. I think he's a legit seven seven first two but he does fall a lot

and I asked some people who know him about this and they said he actually practices falling so I was right that he's kind of you know it's almost like a gymnast like he learns how to he falls in sections but somehow learns how to not get hurt but I just think teams and I don't know what do you think is the western team that would be like we're fucking this guy up for two weeks. Well I mean the thunder fuck everyone up I mean that's right they were they and they're extremely physical and they

do it very well. I mean if the rockets had atoms and I think they would still give it a run a bit Minnesota Minnesota can be a nasty physical team Minnesota could do it yeah and by the way you're seeing it with Yokeh too I mean in the last two or three weeks there's been a not a sea change because teams dabbled in it but most teams are now guarding Yokeh with a wing or a power forward and putting their center somewhere else and just having like today it was

too many tomorrow guarded Yokeh for half the game and I Toronto Scotty Barnes guarded Yokeh the whole game and Pearl was elsewhere and just being like front him hit him get on get in his waist and his legs just beat the hell out of him try to stall for time and it's just that's been it's been interesting to I mean Denver's familiar with that scheme but it's been thrown at them more often in the last three weeks than at any period I can remember other than like a playoff

series. The Oklahoma City the villains getting a fight yesterday and watching pick it on a young one didn't see that one coming but the champagne brothers are not to be tripled with and when anyone it whenever someone gets emotional in the face it's it's on like it's on did you see the kid in the front row who was continuing to film fit well in any and his facial expression turned from like well like joy like oh my god it is so cool to like to like

oh horror like to like these guys are big and strong and they're falling on me right now

brother they said that about the the one that's on Washington Justin but I've heard that I've heard that said about both of them and there's this should almost be like an on be a team

that we get to vote on as you know I've always wanted more teams than just on be a all rookie

“all defense I think we should have the not to be tripled with yeah all in be a team and it would”

be like both champagne brothers would be on there the James Johnson all stars yeah yeah the James shots of all stars just like oh no don't do that Tim because you could see it because because uh the the other J dub he's starting and he gives him a couple of shoves and he gives him the third shove and champagne he's like dude are we gonna do this like you could just tell he had the light and his eye ready to go. I honestly thought tonight somebody with Boston was going to

lose it with Bonne's Island because he was having a lot of fun at their appointed people to point that who go what yeah that's you you felt yeah that's not that's not that's someone's going to decke him a little bit yeah wizard thunder I just didn't see the wizard summoning the kind of spirit at this point in the season to actually get into an altercation. Well we're in I tweeted about it today we're in an absolute death death match where we have the Washington wizards with

16 straight losses in the Pacers with 16 straight losses and a half win a half win lead 15 wins

for the Pacers 16 for Washington and it's just a matter who blinks first the record is 28 for

straight losses and neither team can get to 28 it would have to end the season on a 27 game losing streak but for Indiana they don't play each other they don't play each other for Indiana the one is super important because that basically guarantees they get their pick right because the Quippers get it if it's 5 6 7 8 or 9 so if Indiana's one even if three teams passed them in the lottery they would still get four so I don't think they want to win again. I mean if you're one you

still have a 48% chance of picking fifth. Is that true? Yeah. Oh wait four teams can jump you. Yeah. Oh well there goes that. You're both another six minutes moment. You're most likely according to tankethon I'm looking at it now you're most likely that we had four I thought it was three because Detroit

“has jumped Detroit has fallen from one to five before and Utah I believe Utah last year film won one to five.”

Well Utah ended up with ace. Ace is good. Which that was another topic now. Well hold on we're talking about that. We're talking about that. The wizards we're talking about the wizards.

Can I just I this is a very similar soapbox to get on but I'm can I get on it for a second? Sure.

I watched a couple of wizards before do or no no I've I've watched a couple of wizards games in the last 10 days because they were playing teams that I wanted to see including the Pistons first game without Kate or first game since the collapse long. They've definitely entered the tanky stage where like I'm now I don't like the way they're playing and I'm worried that this is going to set back the development of some of their players. I have it every shot Alex Sartek some like I don't that's like

what why is he allowed to just dribble around and take a 21 foot like just inside the 3 point arc jumper let alone that like these other centers just running him over on the way to the rim to the tune of 83 points and 36 points trade johns trade johns is fine like there's just a lot of possessions on like this is like this is not good for anybody it's not good it's that we've passed the point where like all they're going to spread their wings and try new stuff like this is just

bad stuff that's happening I agree with you I also don't love their guys they have a lot of like

“assets that are fine but not like in ringer 100 I think trade might have been betraying SAR”

might have been the only two and I'm new enough trade made it because we haven't I guess we not solicit some Monday but like I like Utah's set of assets way more right if you're just looking at like which which teams roster would you have there if Utah's like light years ahead of Minnesota for assets Washington I'm sorry Washington and then in the end as another one that I just I like the way they're set up way more Brooklyn and Washington I don't like the way they're set up I don't really

like the players they have I don't think they're in good shape and even if they get one of those like Darren Peterson you don't watch NCA but Darren Peterson lost today Kansas had a terrible terrible loss I saw that buzzer shut I really wish Bill Self was in the NBA so you could do this act deep dive on him because he's one of my least favorite college coaches but he somehow managed to get the guy you're losing lab is you sell a soul tournament you so he's playing right now

who's the coach their coach who I didn't like him I didn't like based on one press conference

out so you're not gonna have to see him anymore but the point is Peterson who's high school tape was just better than his college what I watch with college I don't know how a hundred percent healthy he was he's good but the kid on Arkansas he knew nothing and you just watch both of them and you're like who should have a higher ceiling you you literally you're just watching college

just hearing that's it you would think it was the kid from Arkansas eight cuff that is like basically

looks like he's gonna be chai re the point is I don't to bandsat things gonna go one and two three four five six I don't think there's any way to know who's gonna be the best guy out of those things anyways so we met up done all this tanking and whoever gets the six piff might end up with the best guy in the draft which happens over and over again are you shocked it um are you shocked every time your email box has a medical update from the Washington Wizards tray young medical update

subject line entity Davis medical update I'm like I'm almost impressed I'm almost impressed with the entity like tray played a couple of games yeah I'm almost impressed with the entity Davis that they bother sending the email but they they remember they've acquired him and be that they even bother like this performative like yeah we've done an update he'll be reevaluated on the timetable TBD impingement is a big word this year yeah well we know if it

knows what it means they're impinging on my viewing habits I have to watch your fucking basketball we'll take a break for the pot we'll keep going here on Netflix it's Diengarten start club with the in-fruiting by action in quality and deckline's the price hand-in-hand to buy spiel green boots Dünger Granulat 0 1 2 and 20 or the bloomantop ausges hecked him kunststoff 0 7 and 70 sent and deckle yet all the garden products in our field y'all and in the action app action

“line up highs it goes and quite up x all mba right now I think we have four locks it's a cluster”

SGA when we look at yokeage and then that fifth one is going to be I don't know is cade going to get 65 probably not it's cool I'm going to get to 65 probably not and ants at 58 and I don't know how many more games he's going to miss it's starting to look like jailin might actually be a

first team all and be a guy I'd be not if not if this loss kicks up such a panic level among

Celtics nation as it was earlier in this podcast just a tiny tiny concern about uh how come don't have a Mitchell gets no respect what does the guy have to do he would be the other person okay but what but how how would he get it over jailin if the Boston's a two-seat inclusions of foreseed and they've had the same kind of injury luck in their teens I don't know and they've the same stats can I ask you a quick on BA have a couple more off this is Jain one Johnson is second team in

play for him now second team it's really just going to depend on the 65 game stuff that you mentioned

“because if if if cade is out there's a first team spot I think that's going to open because I think”

I'm not sure you would have been the fifth first team guy on my value probably would have been but it

it I think he'll will be for the voting people who have been for me so that's open and then you mentioned all these other guys who might not get to 65 why might be out maxi maybe and 5050 but but even even if it's just cade one of the second team guys moves into first team so there's multiple second team spots that are open and like he's he's probably a third team while a lock is too strong but he's been a strong third team on BA candidate for a while now

they want to live in straight I guess nobody I mean they played a real team and they got smoked but my thing is I'm not voting for you for all on BA if I have a lot of good candidates you don't have a winning record they're at least going to be a top six or seven c so a collide out for you

“if they're below 500 because they are right now well but I think if collide comes back they won't”

be below 500 right well he's playing lately he's back no but I'm saying if he plays the whole oh if he if he finishes with 65 don't you love 500 if he finished his 65 they'll be over 500 would be my guess for instance in there Murray I think we both have bookers an interesting one because booker just if you're just going who are the best 15 points I saw the share he's probably one of them but I don't know if he's going to get the games and then that's really it

I had I had a I had a rising falling segment out of my podcast week I'll read you just some of my risers and followers and this like 13 universe yeah I think Bronson has dropped a little bit but I think he's still safe isn't all in BA player cat rising a little bit last month Durin is Durin a lock now I have I just think there should be two pistons if they get the one seat I feel good about it and I like having centers I like to keep the traditional life

maxi falling a little bit but yeah might not make might not make the limit anyway

might not make the limit and I have one the bottom of the course he's strong well I know who it is to find castle that's your guy so 17 seven and five are his stats right now and he should 32% from three yeah I want you to I'm just I want to lay out because I want to hear it I want to hear the are I want to hear the case if they get the one seed

“I think there's a real case for it for having two spurs and having the guy who is I think one of”

the best two way players in the league and somebody that night after night sets the tone for them I think other teams hate playing him the other other guards and perimeter players do not exceeding him ever he's clutch he plays well would one be he's durable he's reliable he's gotten better as the year went along I just think he's a badass I think in a lot of ways here reminds me of the Durin case for Detroit there's a physicality and an intensity and an anger that he in a good way and anger

that he plays with that I think sets the tone for that team I think him and Calden Johnson are weirdly like the emotional folk rooms of that team how hard and just what a maniac castle is and then Calden Johnson the energy he has and what a leader he is for them when you combine it with all the other stuff it's that would be the case and I really value the durability and reliability

“and I think he's I've just I've never seen him have like a game where he looked lost or he looked like a”

second year guy oh he just is locked in night after night after night you can see it when you're at the

game you can just see how he handles warm ups like everything he's just like he's got it so that be the case I wish the stats were I wish he was at 20 points a game because then it's like a layup 17's a little low um yes statistically if you're going to cop in with Durin I mean Durin has the big man advantage where he's he's fuel go percentage just can be better he's going to gobble up rebounds which is going to juice all the advanced numbers I get all that but it's it's not there's

almost no comparison just statistically between the two and the other thing is that his turnovers can get pretty high he's averaging three a game which is not bad but he has some bad turnover again so look I mean the Steff Castle was the only player CR and I had in common on our market soul all stars like I could not watch in the guy play basketball anymore I could not be any higher on him and yeah I mean if you're the spurs what level of playoff disaster would it take for you at this point

to consider to even consider trading one of Harper and Castle for Yannis I mean it's like these guys are so good that I'm if I'm this spurs I'm not touching any of this stuff going forward no no no matter what happens in the playoffs hang up I mean Harper has been unbelievable thrust into the starting world the last couple of games it's like scary how good he looks you can't mess with having those three guys just as your foundation you're good not messing with it

I can't if we made a list of like come first of all they fit perfectly with the

Wemby thing combined with fox just looking into him and adding him to this and the

“primer his career right and I think he's actually a really good fit for what they have and what”

they need and there's some crunch time stuff with him that I like but I just I wouldn't touch it I have a question after question what am I giving up for Yannis at this point how many how many minor to some of my minor leg injuries can a guy have and be in there early 30s with a lot of miles and games in them where I start to get worried somebody's trying to sell me a car that they rolled back the odometer on just asking it's it's a fair question

he can't play three straight weeks without getting hurt like at some point should I be concerned about this yeah we're not yeah absolutely be the age to jump shot in the injuries not only now but in like three of the last five playoff years are it considered four maybe it's four last I don't know I mean it I can't remember thought my head but it's it's I mean they'll they will get a mother load for him because there

will be a mother load is strong they will get they will get a mother load for him I'll stick with it because there will be a team I think they will so it's like well it depends what your definition is like I think the heat would trade like everything we thought they would trade it's trade deadline I don't see any of that but why is this a good idea I'm just like he devil's advocate like if we're in the front office and we're talking about this we have a chance to get Yannis like cool

he was the easiest hot five NBA player is he doesn't play well what okay but you're talking

he doesn't play he gets hurt all the time he's hurt all the time this he's been really scared about this if I was if I was you're so you're telling me if I'm Miami I have to trade all of my assets and I have to sign you to a $280 million extension for four years and I don't know if you can play

I've always been the conservative guy about trading everything for stars like I didn't love

the Phoenix trade for Durant whatever one was yelling I mean like oh it's Kevin Durant you got to do it you get nobody it's Kevin Durant why are you over thinking this I don't know he's 35 and I'm worried that he's going to get hurt and he has been hurt but you know I mean Yannis still has played 60 70 he's played like 63 or more games in every season before this one and then a lot of 70s and 80s earlier in a square like he's been now the timing of the injury

hurt and two playoffs has been bad is that bad luck is that durability like just body breaking down at the wrong time of the year I just so but how about this I'm going to throw this

aid to so don't want to trade for him you just it's a stay away not saying that okay but like

Dwight Howard in 2012 and I remember I don't know if you're working in Grantland at that point and he was going to be a fridge in 2013 and we were wondering like did this already peak like his physically like he's having back issues now he's played a lot of minutes a lot of miles

“what am I trading for exactly um shack in the mid 2000s I think is another one you get these big”

guys when they've been in the league like 12 13 years and they played 800 900 games and they've been in a bunch of playoff games and Davis is another example recently right Davis in 2012 draft and now he's gone off a cliff as body is breaking down I would just be if I'm Miami trading everything I have and then having to sign up for four more years and not being 100% sure if I'm getting the yannas from 2022 which was 21 I'd be really nervous about it I don't think I would do it

I would do it if I was golden state and I'm like look we we're adding step into the ground and this is our last chance but I don't know if I would do it if I was playing so that's the thing if you're talking about what Milwaukee's going to get if this ever happens and at this point it's definitely enough because like I just who the hell knows anymore um like just throw gold if it gold and state they're going to get all the picks from golden state they're going to get the

“four four three two I feel good about that if I'm a worse fan do I think I have a chance to be golden state and”

same tone to be you just under okay see now you just made the case so you feel good about it because at least staff has well I'm saying I understood what I understand what they would do it if I'm a worse fan I don't know if I want them to do it I would I would actually think about zag in the other way I know training stuff is I know I'd I get it but you notice what he said at his dad's thing what he said and see they retired number 31st dad and somebody asked him like

you know would would would you wear it if you came here and love it and he was kind of didn't poo poo the question it was interesting yeah you know it's not like Charlotte's not aeropointing up but she was to Charlie Shredd for Yannis and just go for everything next year why am I so nervous about his health am I just in the minority he's injured he's injured he's played 36 games this year he's come back three times and got injured almost immediately

but if you're Charlotte you can't I mean you'd want to hang on to all three of your best young players and so because you have two of them on rookie deals and you could fit Yannis but what you know what so what am I getting if I'm Milwaukee all the picks sure what what else we should have done this three minutes earlier this is another addition of what would Sam Presti do for me yeah Sam Presti's running Charlotte and he is a chance to trade

three unprotected first plus that Dallas pick they have that's like top two protected and they have

one other good one right like Miami's pick or something yeah they have a couple good ones and patch and put Miles bridges in it because he would fit right in with that goofy walkie team and

“maybe like I don't know the Grant Williams expiring and just go for it I think Sam Presti would not do that”

I think he would see like what's we a love our foundation let's build from this we can add there's a heart and sting caruso type of move we can make let's keep doubling down let's add role players around our foundation I don't think he would do it I thought it was telling that Houston and San Antonio wanted no part of the Yannis trade in February well and there's your other plot twist team obviously Houston is Houston's the desperation team well and there's season has gone awry a little bit

out they've they blow out the Hawks wherever the game was and they they they they win some games

were like okay like they're an amazing they're forceful I'm in Thompson tips in the game

when in shot here and there whatever it is and so they haven't fallen that far in the standings but it's another starting read shepherd which is something you and I've been talking about for a long time feels like that could give some oxygen to their offense but it does feel like it's it's been rickety for it's been a day I think I looked it up last week's in there last like I want to say 40 games they have the number 22 offense in the NBA like so it's just not

feels worse at the level that it needs to work for them to actually compete the fact that Tariys and just wasn't good this year I think combined with the fact that he teams just leave him open he can't make a shot many of Thompson can't shoot so now now playing three on five basically with outside

“shooters that's why read has to play there's a lot of email questions percolating I would say he's”

if we did the what do we have we had what did you call the team we had for the James Johnson all stars if we had the hot seat coach all stars for the 25 26 season I think email would definitely probably have the most votes because the clock toy little offense which is the Celtic

fans remember from the 22 season it's it's definitely in full swing yeah so basically it's

the honest desperation would be the honest trade I think because I don't think these teams like Charlotte okay see San Antonio Houston I don't think Houston maybe the only one like would you do Shengun and some of your picks for Janus of course Minnesota was trying to line up everything to real to make a real run at him at the trade deadline which was a strange one I mean not that strange because it's Janus but like but they were trying to line up all the you know all the deals

that they would have to make to get depicts that the box would want and that was interesting to me I was not notable considering that we don't know what to make of the wolves right now also notable that it sent their team into like an up and down you couldn't figure them out night tonight I'm sure the fact that half the team was involved in all those trade rumors probably wasn't helping them there's also a Brooklyn like what do we even have here but we have a lot of stuff and

fuck it yeah and just like we'll get another guy at some point or we'll get it we'll try and get another guy at the same time and maybe it's not a guy at the level that Janus would dream up but it's like a really good player and we'll make it work and whatever I don't I mean who the hell knows anything can happen the one team I wouldn't rule out for Janus which we did not mention

“the Utah Jess because I think they are at the fucking stage involved us like they just basically rolled”

over for the last couple years was it that you forgotten that your injection juniors on their team to get it and they have marketing and they have ace Bailey but my assumption would be maybe he's part of the trade or maybe marketing is part of the trade one of those two guys with a lot of

their picks and they just try to talk Janus and the salt like basically yeah I mean that's one you've

got to talk him and do it before you make the trade obviously but yeah well what did you think of Ramona's piece where she got West Edens on the record saying what we all knew already to be true but it was interesting that he said it like he's either going to sign an extension or we're going to trade him like what we were not playing out the year with this I thought it was it was in notable that he said it even though we've all been saying like the extension is if he doesn't sign the

extension is the same thing as demanding a trade but the bucks have essentially gone on record now and said we don't have the wherewithal to play it out like the thunder did with Durant or the cab did with Cleveland or the cab did with LeBron the first time in Cleveland we're not doing that so if he doesn't sign it we're trading him for sure like they said that so it's out there no I do feel like the soap opera of the whole season and the way Janus kind of handled it

started where everybody down by the end was my guess it's like you you say you don't want to get traded but then another thing comes out and but you also basically saying it's like a relationship where

“you're like I'm not breaking up with you but if you want to break up with me tell me”

and that's kind of what's been going on for nine months I don't think it's been great and the next would be the other team we do oh yeah a terrible next exit combined with Janus being the the panic move this summer I remain strangely optimistic about the next I can't like I don't even understand I mean they're they're they're on their on paper dossiers rock solid yet yeah they've one six games in a row when it feels bad it feels real bad

but I I remain on why can't the next make the finals like I like I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm still in

who's just going to settle in at fourth place they're going to get to play to run on round one

“which is a team I think everybody would want to play and then they have Detroit and round two”

a team that they know they could be and that would be their path and let the Celtics and next just be tell out of each other um last thing we're in new before we go the winners of 2026 oh yeah um and it had a couple of things for this and by winners it's not like Wendy's a winner it's not like the usual on BA ones the reason I thought of this was you know obviously I've been watching a lot of charlet uh I talked to the bandwagon people

by the way you're still not allowed on um been watching them all year oh they can't they think I hope that I hope they drive their bandwagon more safely than the mellow drives is freaking tank so now you have hornets reddit mad at you um but I think La mella was a real winner this season he's on my list I've wrote down when you gave me this assignment two hours before the podcast I've wrote down some names La mella ball in bold on my list he's a winner oh it turns out he's good

yeah he's been good the whole time so he was the reason I thought of this idea I love that he has so his stats if you look at them he's actually had seasons with better stats

“this is a classic I test you have to watch it I love the way he's playing and I said this last”

week and I'm gonna say it again like there's real thoughtfulness in how he's playing the point our position now and how he's not as risky and kind of reckless as he was he doesn't see my keys in like an n1 tournament anymore and there's a wherewithal with what he's doing now and how

he understands they have these two incredible wings millers miller and kknipple together it's

I mean kknipple has a chance to get 300 made threes which would be nuts miller when you watch him it's like this is like the best version of Paul George right that we had in the 2010s basically night after night and the miller's really gonna use the name at using the batain just he just knows how to drive the car and I didn't think he had it in him oh does he well not he doesn't drive his car he knows how to drive the war to the car I didn't think he had it in him it's after

six years and to me the point car position it's either if you haven't shown me it I don't I'm not

“gonna believe it I see and I feel the same but also almost the opposite in that I think”

everybody got so disgusted with the five or six crazy things you would do every game that they unjustifiably dismissed all this statistical indicators that he was actually good and actually it was like driving Charlotte's offensive at a high level when he was on the floor because his his plays of insanity were so like disgusting to basketball purists and not like they were right that I think that they just were fed up with him as as as as a player and I was like they

they were in the play in tournament that those are things that happened they had like 500

his seasons with the mellow and not good teams he's always been good but now he's found the right

balance in his game that other people that everyone is sort of agreeing look at yeah he's actually a helpful and be a player really I think he has been the whole time but yeah he's on my winters list for this for exactly these reasons he's basically the last like since he lost our break he's making four threes a game he's played he's played 61 games and he's basically 20 and 7 every night and I don't think he really cares how many points he scores which is the other

thing I like I think he's just doing the plays that helped them win and at the end of games if he needs to beat somebody up the dribble they're really good it's amazing that they're gonna probably be at 9/10 seed because the east 45 wins is gonna be a 10 seed it looks like they have a chance to maybe move up if a couple teams fall but I really hope they make the playoffs because I think they'd be an incredibly fun game and they're only two games out of

six like in the last column like there there's a lot my amy has lost four in a row the magic have lost four in a row like teams are starting to fall back into their range and even the Hawks who are six are only two games ahead of them Jamal most is on my hot sea coach all start team by the way I have a couple more winners but you'd give me a winner what do you have Jamal Murray we're not that far removed from a lot of handering over Jamal Murray's contract

like on the day overdue this was he really a max guy sensational season stamped himself winner I agree I remember beginning of last year after he did that extension it kicked in real fear that the Yoke Ajairah had been completely blown that if this guy was in the coming off the Olympics too that now I'm gonna get his shit together was ugly the Olympics was ugly

so you know you look back and you look at Brandon Ingram stats and they've been pretty steady

this entire decade like he's been between 20 and 23 points again his field goal stops around

“the same but I think this was a combo of the team USA thing when he basically left the team”

whatever happened and that they were really sour on him and vice versa and then you know last year didn't get the contract he wanted and nobody wanted a trade for him and at some point you get the stink on you like what golden state was the one team that should have traded for him but they had coached him and team USA and wanted no part of him and nobody else really wanted him and we end up with this thing where he gets traded Toronto rich talks them into somehow signing him to a pretty

sizeable extension with no other bitters and all of it seemed insane you watch the games he's one of the more reliable end-of-games throw him the ball get us a basket he's got that that around the foul line move when he bounces off somebody to create space and has that little 15 footer and it's kind of deranthish honestly I've been really impressed yeah I mean both of them because there was a lot of Scotty Barnes skepticism too that he deserved the no brainer rookie max

“both successful seasons couple many each other I think in the ways that Toronto's front office”

thought they would in that in that Scotty Barnes is not the kind of end-of-game score that you are describing and so we need to get someone who is and yet like I had Jack Armstrong on my show a couple weeks ago yeah that was good like where is all this actually leading like neither one of them is quite as good as you need that player in that role to be for a team to really get anywhere but they're they're solid but I just don't I don't see a pathway for this particular roster

to go super far but it's a good roster RJ bear it's good quickly has been pretty good

for the last couple months but it's already finally the roster yeah maybe that's a yawn as

team to this summer that they've been yeah they've been on the list that's true am I up for you up you're up I can go I mean both I landed the winner he's on my list both how it's back in I'm struggling because I the name on the top of my list I can't even read what my handwriting so Mitch Johnson not not a not a not a great one but like I like people were like who is who is this guy

“what do we think of him and now we're like yes guys pretty good oh I think he I think that's a”

really good one all right I have a couple more cheap centers I think we're having a cheap center Renaissance led by David Klingan who multiple teams passed on in that draft who's now averaging 12 and 12 every game he's he's an average he's third in the league and rebounding and I think he's like third or fourth in blocks is 2.3 blocks a game but it's just like a legitimate guy Kitas the Celtics version of that Diobate aka Moose we call Moose now in

Hornet Station but he's basically been a double double for three months and then the other one that's in there is Mark Williams who the trade veto Phoenix kind of grabs him and he's another one that's like 11 and 8 but there's these guys out there and this goes back to what we talked

about in the worst contracts podcast about I just don't want to pay 30 million dollars to a center

when I feel like I can find these guys right the Celtics are paying Kita and Garza three million dollars a year four million dollars a year total and they're putting up relatively neighborhood numbers to some of these guys that are 30 million 28 million 25 million cheap centers are making it come back could it can I nominate a few more guys for that list yeah let's go let's go let's go mama could be in there he knows that technically a center

he's a center is he's a center so he's a center and he's a center and he's a center and it's not a center joclandel throw him give him a little love jale and smith give him a little love just throw him good love her guys corned is he out price this range he's out price it but he's spiritually stole counts the other son also a good arrow is legit good and there's been holding down the four for Mark Williams for for a bit now and by clinging ain't going to be cheap much longer

because he keeps laying like this is gonna make a lot of money on his next contract I actually had Ispia as a winner because I think they salvaged a truly awful situation with a team that's it's exceedingly watchable night after night and they have a lot of it's weird kind of what's of what they're not assets but they're kind of semi assets but like you mentioned a good arrow good one done that flaming I think has a chance to be somebody blessed be if you catch

just like give me some random by low NBA stocks just rage off the cuff I had no prep for it

“and I mentioned mollo watch and yeah I still buy the guy we should have bought and now the price is”

gone up since then but we should still buy his flaming that guy that guy's got a shot yeah

I have two more winners me go Harrison I'm interested he did it there's never been a

worse sports trade we thought last year it was possible we were hoping but there were still a chance like maybe Davis will be really good on Dallas what would happen someday he gets out the and then they give a d away and then it was yeah but you know you watch look on LA you can kind of see what they did what Nico was thinking and now on March 22nd 2021 it's the worst trade anyone's ever made it actually would be a fun exercise to try to engineer similar trades like what would be an

equivalent trade that if it happened next February would be like wait the timber was traded Anthony Edwards for I mean I'm even sure who would be like if there's got to be like a 30 year old like pretty like pretty good player and it comes out and again yeah we didn't like anti-attitude about this in that I could you would you would struggle to actually come with the next look at the trade the next look at trade would probably Anthony Edwards or who would be like

the return piece like you know wait the what the I don't even want to put that I don't even

want to put it on anyone I was gonna say the name of the first thing first of all you can't

recreate this trade you can't have a doppelganger for it because it's unstoppable gang or girl bull

“it'll never happen again there's never whatever be a worst sports trade and the only thing”

that will make it funnier is that the Lakers make like the western finals of Lucas just destroying everybody like he should come to a game like I would zag the other way come to a Laker game be even the applause be even the adoration except the thank you's from the Laker from the Laker fans right instead of being booed and humiliated and Dallas zagged the other way what he made this other fanbase really happy go accept their congratulations what if it's all a long

con where he's been where he's been colluding with Mark Walter for years and this was his move to to be new ending yet to replace polinka in the end what if it's all been part of a long scheme that would be one of the biggest scandals in the biggest we've replied polinka and we've replaced it with Nico Harrison and he pulls off his maves maves pull over um I have one more or two more actually uh the rookie class well you have 25 now because I'll go even further because now that it

looks like ace is really good we might have a five for five with the rookie class top five and I was gone yeah top five where we have no darkos no even I hate saying this but scoots and I've really watched and scoot carefully hoping hoping for the there's something there aside than there I just we're getting to the point that it's going to be safe pretty soon to conclude that it's not number two pick something it could be it could be good NBA player something

but it might not be ever number two pick something he has a really really high defensive guard

“ceiling I don't know if you've picked that up at all like I I think he's a physical defender who”

actually cares about guarding people he can be people off the dribble and get to the basket what he's not is what I thought he was going to be which is like a Derek Rose type of athlete getting in the rim and that's not he's not officially like that you actually hold for a couple of gates at it the rim sometimes yeah and I think that was the miss but um the 96 class

iverson can be Sharif Stepon Marbury Ray Allen that's a five for five basically and then

84 had Hakeem Boe MJ Perkins Barkley Boe did play I know he shouldn't have gone second and it was ridiculous pick but he he was like a pretty good center for a decade he had a plan like 700 games or something so I think with this five for five flag Harper VJCon Ace Ace is probably the loudcard but I think Ace is going to be good and if Ace is like the scariest that of the five that's a pretty good five I've liked almost everything about this Ace Bailey season even when

he wasn't scoring much I liked the way that he was approaching the game it was completely the opposite of what I expected based on what I had heard of the Rutgers thing and just everything was I thought he was going to come in and just chuck up a bunch of bad shots and he did not play like that at all he tried hard on defense he would make the extra pass he was like totally committed to all the things that the Jazz wanted it to be committed to and then the last couple months

shoot some shots create some shots and he's good work on your game yeah Jalen will be the last

one just the season he's having but we don't need to talk about him and then my last last last winner Adam Silver pushing this expansion thing when I don't think it's a slam dunk that

“have the 23 votes and I think there's some owners that are like what the fuck including”

Vegas's 90 minutes from Utah. They put an expansion team in the Quippers in San Diego do you think the Quippers and makers would care about that? Are there two cities that are closer together geographically and further apart culturally is it is that even possible? That's true but I just I said this the other day on Thursday's pod and we didn't talk about it but I thought the timing of that announcement as a Monday you know Monday is when the Monday morning you give somebody

something because you want the story to blow up and set the tone for the week timing of it was interesting I don't know if they have the votes and it felt like they wanted to it almost felt like one of these where you lick your finger and you put it up in the air and you kind of see what the response is and most of the response was pretty positive I was probably one of the most negative ones because I think it's ridiculous I don't think they should be adding two teams when

I would first look at relocation I also don't know why Vegas should have a team nobody's

explained that to me the track record of franchises there does not sell itself to you I just say it's I just think for to be the fifth professional team it's not a huge market and I'm not really sure what Vegas is going to look like 10 years from now whether it's better or worse like what but why wouldn't Nashville have a team but if we're just doing this over again like just to be clear see how to should have a team but I've been saying that for 20 years people know where I stand on Seattle see

“how to should have a team I don't know if we have to have expansion to get Seattle a team when I think”

there's some a couple franchises that we have to really seriously look at it doesn't seem like they 100% want to have that conversation because they'd rather get the expansion fees so which is this is what I said Thursday it's a pure money grab this is a money grab it's not good for the week I don't think expansion is good for the week I'm not well from from the perspective purely of talent dilution I actually am not worried about that I think I think there is talent for 32 teams you might

have to I'm not worried about the talent part I'm worried about what we're saying now with two more teams that are tanking and like back about it there was one good game the whole day because you just you're just storing away half the schedule every day when these the nine teams that don't give a shit well they gotta do their best to fix the problem A before they introduce problem B and I think they know that but every time they try to fix problem A they've just

created a different version of problem A and so that's the challenge for them is can they actually do this in a way that minimizes losing on purpose because doesn't it make sense to fix that before we talk about adding two teams I am all for like if you have a real solution for this do that and then let's add 30 to because we do have enough players I think we do have enough players but I don't think the league should have 32 teams the way we're currently set up

it doesn't make sense to me I hope it's I hope that it is a driver of discussions on the tanking issue and the schedule issue I hope that if we're if the NBA is going to do this

“and now you have to rearrange the conferences or at least leave move one team east you have to”

rearrange the schedule a little bit like let's have a serious conversation now what should the schedule actually look like how many games should it be we're all going to get all the owners are going to get a gazillion dollars and expansion fees like can we now have a serious discussion about how many games do we really want to play or aren't going to get that money them that's true so if you're cutting the the games you would have to make that up to the players that's true

because if you have 32 teams now you have the easiest possible 71 games schedule sitting right there for you

it's for 18 divisions y'all play each other twice and then you have that third set of games

against your division you're at 71 games and we're good to go and I think everybody would be happy with that sounds like your pro expansion I'm just not I'm not anti the most of the reasons people are anti either well we've got to solve the thinking problem first and I think they know that or be well it's just gonna be bad teams because there's two there's not enough talent the talent's gonna be spread to thin and I just don't I have not seen evidence of the the second part

being true okay all right that's it for the pot I'd a good time so we got to thank state farm because this was alive one on Netflix okay gracious enough to to be involved with that one Zach Low is gonna be back Tuesday and Thursday I have a new rewatchable's coming tomorrow

really entered I I don't know if I had seen Gosling and anything funny before that and I was like

“oh my god this guy's unbelievable I forgot to set you up for your weekend but you said you're”

gonna have to do that on your pod yeah that's fine it's good I say safe it for whoever you have yeah you

had some sort of some sort of funny story I've ever seen there's an I've ever seen Cypher that's

“of all we just we just but and I did not run into Alan I was in night bid on a jersey at Mystic Aquarium”

and we'll leave it at that all right we'll find out on Zach Low's pod on Tuesday what happened Zach

good to see was always thanks to Gahow and Eduardo as well and I was seeing this podcast late Tuesday

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