The Bam Backlash, Kawhi’s Heater, East vs. West, and SGA vs. Jokic, With Tim Legler

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And membership is subject to qualifications. Visit samscub.com/yes and for details. (upbeat music) All right, we're recording this before the Thursday night games. It's late afternoon Pacific time.

Tim Legler is here. You heard him last night doing a Houston Denver blowout. And there's a lot of stuff to talk about for us.

So we catch up like every three, four weeks or so. We try to do like a big theme at the top.

“John Schuman, who I think has an invaluable MBA.com.”

Monday column, right, some other stuff. If you did a piece today about the East versus the West, wondering if the East is caught up to the West. And he wrote that the West has been the dominant conference

basically for the last 27 years.

East has only had a winning record the last three times. Then you think about 16 to the last 25 titles West. And that's not counting, you know, the 99 experts. 15 to the last 25 MVP's West. The hot number one picks that have gone to the West,

Wendy Flag, Zion, Anthony Davis, just in the last 15 years. The best run teams, gold, state, Oklahoma, city, San Antonio, maybe Boston Miami, so three of the five in the West. And then they have most of the good players right now.

And yet the balance seems to be shifting. Are you noticing this at the games you're doing? Yeah, for sure. I think the gap has been closed. And I think I'd look at it a couple different ways.

So the first way I would try to interpret this question is let's look at the top teams in terms of viability and likelihood to actually win a title now this year. So when you look at that, you clearly

you'd have to give an edge to the Western Conference

because you have two goes to the West plus Denver. Yeah, I think so. I think you're right.

“And I think the top two, I don't know any Eastern Conference”

team would be favored in a series against either Oklahoma City or San Antonio. I don't care who comes out of the East. They're going to be an underdog against either one of those teams. And then you've got Denver sitting there, you're right.

Because I got that next group of four after the top two in the West. You got Lakeers, you got Minnesota, you got Houston, you got Denver. All of them have been inconsistent for different reasons. When I look at those four teams, the one team I look at and go,

you know what, I still have a belief that this is going to be a very difficult team to play and could go on a deep run in the postseason. That's Denver of the group. Because I know how good they were early.

That was one injury after another all season long. And now they're starting to get these guys trickling back Christian Browns back Aaron Gordon. Peyton Watson is right around the corner, and he's, by the way, is a completely different player that you're injecting back into the mix

than he was when, you know, beginning of the season. So I look at Denver still and I go, they're still enough time with 16 games to go to get all these guys back, figure out your rotation and put together an impressive close to the season to make you think like, "Hey, man, Denver is very much in the mix."

So you're right, Denver with the next team. But what they used to, you went straight with Denver right now. They have a top one, top two, top three guy, wherever you want to put Yokech, which is one of the recipes for winning the title.

“You need to have about one of the best guys in the week.”

All right, so go to the end of the season. Then you look at the East and I mean, right now you look at Detroit Boston to me as the top two, right? Then you got the Nixon caps, be the next two, and then you get down and start getting into teams like--

This is so hard to run into Miami Orlando and Philly. And they put Boston in there, this is, I'm delighted. Hey, look, man. I, it's crazy because we're doing all these marquee games to slate that they gave us,

like with the group that I'm with this year, with Mike and Richard, like the group that I'm with most of the time. Like you get that slate of games, you're so excited. I've only had, I think last night, or a couple of nights ago,

was my second Boston game Sunday.

We did Boston Cleveland. That was my second Boston game of the year. I haven't seen them in a couple of months. So when you're watching them on TV, you can get a perspective, and I'm a big fan of what they're doing.

It's a incredible story. And Masula, to me, I've just been so impressed with his coaching job this year. But when you see him in person, it's a whole other level of belief in them.

And what I saw on Sunday was a couple of things. They're so smart. They're so sharp. They do not make mistakes with their communications defensively at all.

Like when you're watching teams, and Oklahoma City who is the gold standard for that the last couple of years, Boston's on that level. They do not make mistakes on like helping recover situations where two guys are flying out of shooter,

or somebody fails to rotate on the baseline when it's their turn. They just don't make those mistakes. They don't run back in transition and two guys flare off to the same side of the court

when there's only one player there. They communicate those matchups. They just don't get burned early. When you're that smart, you communicate that well. And then a couple of metrics stand out to me.

Turn over the ball less than any team of the league. They're not hurting themselves. And they protect the paint better than any team of the league. When you do those two things alone, you've got a great chance.

And now on top of it, the way they share it and you're getting paid them back. I was so impressed with what I saw Sunday because look, the calves treated that like a very big game because the Celtics and Beat them twice,

you could just tell by the intensity of Kenny Ackon sitting like the pre-game conversation we had with him. He was like, no man, we need to show up today

We've got Mitchell coming back today. Hardens playing through this. They didn't have Jared Allen and that's a big loss that I don't want to just, you know, just kind of chew that because he's playing great.

But still, they Boston dismantled them. dismantled them. And it was so impressive, Bill, that I'm going to man. Tatum finds that little extra burst that he doesn't have and you wouldn't expect him to have right now.

If he gets some of that back in time for the start of the playoffs

or by the second round of the playoffs,

absolutely would not be surprised if Boston wins the Eastern Conference. Now Detroit's been the best team all year. They're not playing as well right now. Boston has closed the gap with them.

And then you have New York and Cleveland,

“I think a little bit behind both of those teams”

in the way of you them. So in the top seven, you could argue the top three or the West and then the next four of the East. I like all four of these teams better than anyone after the three in the West.

I don't trust you. - After the New York, yeah. - I don't trust. Minnesota is finally lost by trust. I was holding on, holding on, holding on.

I've just given up after these two LA games. They're going to have to win me back. And then Lakers, LeBron will come back and they'll go back to what they looked like when they just have not been able to figure out

Luke LeBron and Reeves together. They can't do it. When one of them's out, it's a little better. It's the best one it's Luke and Reeves. And we all kind of see it.

It's like, at some point, basketball doesn't lie. Like, guys play harder, things look smoother. The ball kind of falls into place. And I don't know, it is what it is. It's weird to think that LeBron would make a team worse.

And I'm not saying as a player, he's worse or anything like that. It's just it's a weird fit. He's the odd man out. They're better with the other two guys with the ball running through those guys.

- Yeah, I mean, look, it's one of those things where you're not going to say, I'm not going to say,

“I think it would be lunacy to sit there and say,”

oh, they're better without LeBron. I'm not going to say that. LeBron James is too good a player. But there is a vibe to an offense. And you can't just completely ignore the fact

that Luke and Austrians have played well together on the court. They've had another unit where LeBron is out there by himself without those guys with a different group of guys. And that group has played really well. So the three of them together,

I mean, you just look at the numbers. It hasn't been, I think, what certainly Jay Jay Reddick and the Lakers expected. And now LeBron's out right now, he's going to be coming back and you're going to have to figure this out to best you can

as you head into the postseason. I think your point about looking at the top of the east and then these teams in the west. So we agreed on Oklahoma City San Antonio and had Denver be in the next team.

So that leaves Houston and the Lakers and the Timberwolves. To me, all three of those teams are flawed. But they've had stretches this year of, you know, seven to 10 games stretch where they look really good. And you're like, man, that's a lot of talent.

And it's coming together. And then they hit another one of those stretches where they have, like, for Houston, they'll have a, I don't blow an 18 point game to lead to the next in the fourth quarter.

And they can't run their offense. And you're like, OK, there's their fatal flaw. And they can't shoot. You look at the Lakers on my two go defensively. It's just not good enough.

It's never going to be good enough.

Their offense isn't going to be so good that it overcomes it. That's like their flaw. And then for Minnesota, it's just been, there's nice you watch them.

And you're like, wow, man, I thought they were so much better. And then, you know, you don't watch them for a little bit. And then you pick them up a couple weeks later and you watch a few games and you're like, man, I don't know, like this team still looks like

they could potentially really threaten somebody. So the problem is this. It's the same word with all of those teams in consistency. And even the nuggets, you use the same word.

“It's inconsistent, but I think you still have faith”

in what their whole group looks like 'cause you got a taste of it at the start of the year. And you saw a dominant day where before these guys started going out left and right. So I have more faith in them than those other teams.

Nixon calves, I kind of know exactly what they are. And there are teams that I don't think it's going to be easy to play. But I think if they're squaring off with Detroit

and Boston in a second round, I'm going to favor Detroit

and Boston to win those series. - Yeah, Minnesota, the defense. I don't know what happened to it this year. But last night against the Clippers, I went two weeks ago in person.

And I thought they played some really good defense against the Clips but the Clips also didn't have a point guard. Garland wasn't playing. And they really took advantage of that. Last night Garland played and the Minnesota just got their ass kicked.

Like they couldn't stop quiet. They're getting beat him fast breaks. You were doing the Denver game seed and see it. But they have nights where they just look like shit. And then Houston, last 30 games,

they're 18th and net rating. They're a terrible three-point shoot in team. Like it feels like they're giving, they're like minus five to minus seven on three-point shots every night it feels like.

So they're trying to make that up. Then on the same offensive rebounding,

or Charlotte being as dangerous as those three teams

“says that is that Houston Minnesota Lakers group”

because at least with Charlotte we have this pretty big sample size of them being a top five net rating team and they can shoot and they bring things to the table. And then what's happened with Miami? You know, the team might, they drive me nuts.

I call them the zombie heat. They just every time you think they're dead, they climb out of their grave and they start doing this and walking around. Now they're doing it again.

You don't wanna see those teams in a six. I'd rather see Minnesota than freaking Miami at this point. And I'm shocked by that. I thought Minnesota was a stealth contender. - I said, we were just sitting around the green room last night

and we had interviewed the coaches. So we got that little bit of time to kill and you're just kind of prepping for the game

and getting the amp for the game.

And I was just looking through some stuff and I started to do a trivia question out to the room. I said, I got a question for you. There are five teams in the NBA right now that have winning streaks of four or greater.

And now it's actually five teams with winning streaks of five or greater. - Yeah. - Who are they? 'Cause like, quickly, you know, my boy Ryan Ruckel,

Rattle's a ball of keys, takes a lot of pride and he's trivia questions, right? He's like, well, Oklahoma City San Antonio, I'm like, bang, bang, got two right there. He's like, oh, Orlando, Orlando's hot.

But yep, there you go. There's three. I said, who are the other two? It was Miami and Atlanta. So I'm going, you understand, three of the hottest teams

in the NBA right now are in the play in territory in the eastern comments. Like, three, and that's not even counting, Charlotte, who doesn't have the winning streak going right now. But over the course of the last six weeks,

you look at their body of work. And it's unbelievably impressive. So you're right, like, there's a lot going on right now with like that part of the eastern conference race. You're not getting as much of that in the west.

You kinda know like what those top six are gonna look like. Phoenix has been a credible story. They want three straight without Dylan Brooks and Booker was banged up for a while.

But amazingly, they actually have a shot still to be six. And push one of those teams into the play in.

“And that would be, honestly, that would be one”

of the most shocking stories. And also impressive at the same time in the part of Phoenix. But could you imagine if you push like Minnesota or the nuggets or the lakers into the play in? The Phoenix Suns, like, especially without Dylan Brooks

for a long stretch, the way he's played this year? So your point is well taken about the comparing to conferences, it's still a little heavier at the very top because what you have in the west. But then when you start to look at the totality

of then you go like three through whatever, eight. And you look how impressive these teams have been in the eastern conference, man, it's no question. The gap has been significantly narrowed. Well, a couple other things with that.

So Shuman had this that that I thought was fun. You take out the raptors and you take the next one to three, next seven teams against the top eight and the west are 45 and 44. So basically everybody bit the raptors.

The raptors are one and 11 against the top eight and the west. They dragged it down. And the raptors are free falling right now. And I think Mike got caught by a couple of teams. So that's one thing.

The other thing is, the east has had really bad luck and the west hasn't. Janis and B. Haliburton, Tatum, and those are for the best, I don't know, 15 to 20 players in the league.

All of them are gone and the west hasn't had the same kind of injury stuff. And you think like, we just had a completely healthy

on a season and we had had, I guess, maybe we're never

getting another in B. Season. But Philly's had between M.B. and Maxis down her, George gets suspended. They've had some bad luck and then if Haliburton was playing, I think Indiana would be a playoff team.

So I wonder like, with all these guys coming back next year, combined with whatever happens with the lottery, which I think that's going to be a free for all for those top four picks. It might actually flip next year.

We might have OKC and San Antonio at the top. But then I think that the bulk might be in the east. And I don't really have an explanation. Somebody was asking me about this. Like, what's the explanation for this century?

Why? And I think some of it is just luck with drafts. Some of it is some of the summer teams, I think we're in the east, right? If a team like Charlotte, that's just been really stupid for 20 years.

Sacramento can claim the West as the stupid title. But there's a lot of them teams in the east. But I just think, and then you've had some east guys go west.

“But if that's what I was going to say, when you talk to them,”

something like the migration, the shack, shackling west, and then like even in Washington, look what we did with the Sacramento Kings and given them Chris Weber and just took a dive on that. Where they were continuing. Right, you have five Weber years.

Well, I was looking at, if you just look at the best guys this century, most of them are West guys and it's just like a fucking flu.

Harden, Quiet, Kid, Russ, Dash, CP3, Luca, A.D. Clay,

Dame, it's like, I just listed 25 guys that are like basically

all the all-time west are mostly west. And the east just doesn't have the same west. So maybe it'll look at this, you know, it's funny. Koli, Koli is a west guy, but the one year he went east. He just went into the west, but basically that's a west guy.

And it shows you how good the west guys are because he went over there for one year and he won one, right? And then he just went back to the western conference. So yeah, there's a lot of reasons for it. There's been some some of it's luck with drafts in terms of the

where the ping pong balls bounce. Some of it is just improper evaluation of talent for some of the teams in the east that had top picks.

We filled off you went through it a number of times alone with what

they went through to get those picks. And like you got to hit on those and they weren't able to. And even the one guy that they really hit on and beat with all the injuries is, you know, he's had like half of a career of what he should have had probably.

So there's a lot of reviews for it. It did create. There's no doubt a huge separation and gap. And you could just see it like you would just pull up at any day. Over the last 10 years, you just pull up the standings on every day.

And it's just looking at the teams and you'd be down like seven, eight, nine. And you're still looking at quality stuff with the Western conference, right?

“Like good players teams that you have to show up every night and play against”

to beat. And then you tail off pretty quickly in the east. This is a little different now with the east looks like particularly. If what we're seeing right now when at some of these lower teams, because it's that's what it really is, man, it's the depth of quality.

Yeah. And we start getting to the Orlando's and the Miami's and the Charlotte's and the Atlanta. Yeah. Like those teams, if those teams can like pick it up and like now it's like, wow, man, like you got to show up to beat these guys, then now the conversation really is kind

of like one of those like Flip of Coin type situations between which conference you'd rather have. Although I still think most of, I would say the top talent is still in the Western conference. Well, we're going to play that franchises you would rather be for the next seven years.

Okay.

“See in San Antonio are one, two, and some order levitating everybody else, right?”

There's nobody else you would put in that class. I don't think. As when you come, all the young stars they have two potentially generational guys as the lead and then picks to even get more guys. So they have to be top the next three I would have or probably Boston Denver, Indiana and

some order, because Indiana, if they can, if they can pull off a top four pick in the draft with Halbert and coming back and zoo bots and all this stuff. Yeah. And like some pretty good cat management, the Celtics, all the stuff they've done and then Denver with Yoke and Jim Murray and, you know, some, some really great supporting guys.

I think that would have to be the next three, but then it gets interesting because that you're talking about Charlotte, Detroit, Houston, Dallas, maybe Minnesota, Cleveland, Atlanta, Lake or something there, but I think Charlotte and Detroit, when you think like to trade with a list, 25 games in the world, Charlotte was a mess for 20 straight years. And now they're at least really in the conversation now, Houston might have blown it.

You saw them last night and, you know, my big question with them is I wonder if you gave

“them true serum, would they do that KD trade over again?”

Probably, I think they would. Okay. Yeah, I think they would. I think they would because I really believe they looked at themselves internally last year and a look.

I know they played, you know, go and say to a seven game series in the first round, but

they looked at themselves and said, this is just not enough offensively. This is done like a modern enough offense. Now ironically, the draft's been great for them to put they play really slow, the other manfully thing hurt them a lot, just in terms of leadership and organization on the forward, like the way they have to start possessions and how deep into the clock, they get

so often, in the course of a game now, just so happens, they've got some great mid range players, Chengun operates in the mid range, you know, Thompson with his slashing and cutting and getting the rim. They're a great offense of rebounding team, like this is their formula to win, but that's not a modernized offense, but it's better than it was last year because of the current

factor, reach shepherds taking a big step forward, like so now they have like legitimate shooter on the floor to close games. So I do think they would do it again, but I just think the loss of Van Vlete and not really filling that and doing that by committee, the way that they bring the ball up the floor, the way they initiate their offense, I'm watching them last night and I'm

watching them all year, but like when you see it again in person, there's just things you notice a little bit more, like when I'm, I'm looking at that end of the floor and I don't offense and like one eye is going up to that shot clock.

it half court with like eight, seven, six and now they're at 40 feet and now here we go. Let's try to get something out of this at the end now just so happens. They've got this guy that can end possessions with great shot making, you know, he didn't have it last night. Durant looked gasped to me, and he played the night before.

He just didn't have it last night and they had a great defensive game plan against him. So it was an anomaly for Kevin Durant obviously 11 points, but typically most nights he can deliver and it's like, okay, that kind of put a band aid on that possession because Durant it incredibly tough shot.

“It's just not a formula that's going to win enough, but it's still, I think better”

offensive than what they had. So I do think they would do it again. I just, I'm looking at that man and I'm going, how are they going to beat one of these teams?

They're going to have to go up against potentially in the first round.

I mean, you could get a three six Houston Denver. How are they going to have enough offensive to serious I get to win four times? I actually think they would lose to the other three teams. And I agree with where you landed because they didn't know Van Blit was going to get hurt when they made that trait.

If they knew they're going to lose Van Blit for the year, they're not making the trait, but they didn't know that at the time. And you know what, something I've been reminded of this season that I felt strongly about my whole life and it is not the hottest take ever. Point guards are important.

Turns out we need a, like you look at the cuppers. They finally get there is garland in there. They haven't been in a point guard all year. They had basically James Harden as the point guard for a lot of the year. They traded him for Garland as hurt.

They're patching to get there.

I went to the Minnesota game two weeks ago in Mathrain and Coire basically bring the

ball up and run in the offense and Minnesota's pressing them at half court trying to trap them. Garland has been like a revelation for them. And I don't even think he's gotten to where he's going to get to. Like he's just coming back. He's getting his game back.

Guess what he's giving them. Fast breaks. Allie Oops. Adlib points where he's driving and somebody cuts and he just fight and you get an easy layup.

Like there's all these things that come with it.

“And that's what I don't see from Houston this year.”

Like everything is like, we are doing this. Shengun, here's the ball, figure it out, you know, and they don't get any fun stuff. They don't really get fast breaks. They don't get open threes or the threes are open for a reason. So I just don't say what you know, it's there are like a low volume three point shooting

team that's which means they clearly don't make a lot either. The percentage is not terrible. The percentage is like top 10. But on a night. Take it.

Yeah, 30. That's the thing. On a nightly basis, they're deficit is like they're like a minus, you know, a lot of nights like they scored the other team scored 15 more points from the three. They scored 24 more points from the three.

That's tough, man. When you're talking about a lot of mid range free throws offensive glass, like that's your full of has to happen for you. You run into teams that did that do a good job of like keeping you to one shot for the most part.

The last night, offensive rebounding was not a factor in that game. Denver did a great job. They're a good defensive rebounding team, not a great offensive rebounding team, but they can keep you to one shot, and it was not a factor in the game. Now, the rant is seeing a wall of three guys all night long.

They were so committed to having three guys literally in front of him, walling them up. So now he's got to give it up, and so now you're saying, okay, the only chance we have some of these roleplay three point shooters, I started to reach Shepherd, who's having very good year for them and shooting a ball just under 40% going into the game. I don't know what he ended up, but at one point he was like one for eight from the three.

And they were really good looks, like those are possessions when the teams are committing that much to the rant or shingoon, and that ball swung, reached Shepherd, like you need him to do that.

He's made four in a game a ton of times this year, and it's amazing how much better

they are when he has those nights. So there is a formula against them that you can force certain guys to be open, and you've got a great chance to beat them. Who's the best point card you ever played with? Well, I was at very, very brief time, I was in Utah, but I'm so I'd go John Stockton.

And I just missed Jason Kid in Dallas by a year. He came in the year after I left. Rod Strickland was a great player in a great talent, played with him, Washington had played with him hard away in Golden State, and he was, yeah, he was a great player, and I played with him, well Chris Mullin, I mean, there was a lot of talent on that team.

So I played with some great ones. I'd put all of those guys in that category, did you ever play with somebody who you were like, wow, this is fucking easy, they're cut my food for me. I'm just, oh, I have to do is just stick the fork down and eat it.

“Like one of those type of punk cards, like the Nash types, do you know, you know, honestly,”

I'm going to give you a name, an underrated, I didn't, I should have mentioned him with this other group. He had a very bizarre injury that curtailed his career at exactly the time he was skyrocketing.

with what he created. It was Robert Pack. Wow, Robert Pack. Interesting.

You remember Robert Pack?

Yeah, of course.

“And then he came to Washington, he is, he was in a top two, I think, maybe two or three”

and the league and assists, about midseason, fast decision, about fast decision, felt like a British hit. That was so good. Yeah. And he was turning the corner and putting so much pressure in early offense.

And I loved to run, I would run to those, those trail like wing threes after he did all the work. So we had a great thing going. Most people don't know this. Robert Pack at that time was in his late 20s, 27, 28, to be my guess, he's having the career

year. He's going to probably make the all start team. And in Washington, we're in Cleveland, it's an off day. We have practice. And this has been like an off day on the road in that era, you're taping and scrimmaging.

Right. You're not, you're not, you're not walking through stuff. So we're scrimmaging, but we had a lot of guys banged up. So we only had nine. So we get an assistant coach, Derek Smith, jumps in practice.

We're running some, some scrimmaging at Derek Smith, such a screen on Robert Pack.

And his, basically his knee went right into the side of Robert Pack's knee.

And it wasn't a knee injury, but it was a nerve injury. He went down in a heap. It basically went back to the room. He iced and basically by the next day, he could not walk. He couldn't feel his foot.

So he basically missed the rest of the year. And he, and, and it actually curtailed his entire career.

“He ended up playing with some other teams over the next few years and I think he, and”

might end it up with the nets on a, for a brief run and it was just like, he couldn't really do any of the things he did before. And it was from that injury. But I, from all the guys I played with that just made it easier for me personally. Robert Pack might be right up there with any of those guys.

Well, maybe, maybe a weirdo on the internet, I'll make a nice mix tape of Robert Pack feeding you and you're hitting a baby. And he was so good. That'd be great. So he was, he was so good, man.

And he, and he, and he outside this, he has great energy about him. He walked in.

He always had a smile on his face and like, he was, he was one of those guys that, like,

was levity in a locker room or had a heaviness hurt when a moodiness or whatever, you know, inconsistent personality types, like those guys were tough. Yeah. He was not like that. He'd love to play basketball.

And he was, he was a master tell. So anybody out there, if you're younger and you're listening to this and you're like, Robert Pack, go ahead, pull up a YouTube video, Robert Pack, and it's best to just be amazed. What's that guy could do?

Yeah. All right. We're going to take a break. Come back and talk about BAM. The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to my fan door.

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In the running for a single weirdest and most unexpected NBA achievement of my lifetime, I was trying to think of anything else that was this weird.

“And I think it would have to, the only thing I could think of that came close was when”

the Warriors went 140 and 24 back to back years when they won 67 and 73, like just that that happened that we thought the 96, 97 bulls would be this North Star for greatness and regular season. Then Curry and the Warriors were like, yeah, we're going to win 140 games in two years. That was really weird.

Thompson in George Garvin scoring the 73 and 63 in the same day after the season. No threes. That was weird. This was fucking crazy because like if we did a draft and we just drafted who would score 83

points, I don't think he would have been one of the first 50 picks.

Definitely not definitely not definitely not, definitely not, and that's not even that's some sort of sliding out of the score, it's just, yeah, it's the nature of his game. Like you respect the hell out of him for a lot of reasons and you know, in certain nights, he can hit you with a 20 to a 30 point game. I think he had 140 point game in his career.

I believe I read. It was morning. Yeah. And so, no, that's what we're saying. It's just not his, it's not the nature of his game to be a voracious shot taker and like

guy that puts up big numbers. He does a lot of other things to help you win. So you're, you 50 might be actually a loan number, it might be a lot higher than a number of guys that you would pick and just go, okay, you know, oh, well, oh, Benedict, master it. Like, I could get really hot one night because he's a score, like all he thinks about

like scoring and attacking. That's not really what BAM does. So you're right. It's, you could have told me, you crazy thing. You could have told me, like, can Thomas, you could have told me Pascal, that's a great

one, actually. You could have told me. Richard, I probably would have believed it more. It did make me think, because I watched the whole basically from midway through second quarter on, it did make me think that somebody's going to get a hundred.

That's a, I have a bunch of takeaways. My first one is 100 is going to happen because he didn't even make a lot of his threes and

“he missed like nine free throws and there's a replica of what he did in that game that I think”

somebody else could do, who would just hit more threes and even like one of the best examples of this was the Kobe, like a couple weeks before he had 81. He had this game against Dallas where he basically had like six to one and three quarters and

he was like 22 for 28 and made all these free throws and I always felt like a few just

stayed in. He probably could have gotten a 90 and I wrote a magazine piece about it and then two weeks late. Like basically stay in, go for it if you have the chance and then two weeks later at the 81.

But it did, so my first question is, did this make you think a hundred points is possible? No, it didn't and I tell you why now. So to even get up in this stratosphere game can't be competitive, I think you and I would agree on that. Yeah, you're not, you can't get a guy going for 75, 80 in a one possession game because

if that's the case, right, then you got a seriously question what's going on with the defensive scheme of their opponent, right, so it's got to be a blowout and I still think as a coach, put myself in that spot if some dude is tuning me up to that extent and I'm talking way before that guy gets to 65, okay, I'm sorry, but the ball is going to be forced out of his hands.

Yeah.

“It just is and that's why, you know, you look into me the prototypical player that would”

have to be someone you look at to get it, threes and free throws are a big part of it, but it's also the ability to create your own deep shot off the dribble. Yeah. And that's as a part of your game, not like a situation where Bamm out of bio takes 22, threes in a game and I don't even know what the most he'd ever taken in the game before

that night, but let's obviously a crazy number for Bamm out of my, no, I'm talking about guys like Luca and Anthony Edwards and he's guys that take a lot of those type of shots. And you come out one night and you dip your toe in the water early and look at his five

or six threes in the first quarter, which he absolutely could because I always joked that

he's the one guy in the league that like the very first possession after the tip is a heat check. Yeah. He's the only guy that does that like immediately, let me see how I feel tonight. So if he comes out and he goes back back to five six threes and he has a 25 or 30

point first quarter, you're thinking like man, it could be on tonight like he might go for it. I still think that the coach of the other team, the staff of the other team, it those

this happen.

“We are going to make sure for take now, he might even as a 15 20 point second quarter.”

And now you're at 45, 48 at halftime.

I guarantee you that's going to happen at the start of the third quarter.

Right. So, you know, this was a team they ran into, that's clearly like they're not really trying to win games right now. They're one of those teams. It's trying to position themselves for a high pick.

And so the competitive environment on the other side was not really there. So band out of bio kept doing it and I kept waiting for it to kick in and they finally tried really late way to late to try to stop them from getting 81 but it was too late by that point. Most of the teams are not going to allow a guy to get up in 45, 50 points at halftime without

some massive adjustment to start the second half. And now there's just going to have to work way too hard to get themselves to 75, 80 by the end of the third to give themselves a chance at 100. So I still don't think 100 is going to fall. Luke was the guy I thought of that could do it because I know the same thing.

You watch Luke of the first three minutes of the game and he does do this to see if he

has it. You know, I went to a game to think the other thing it has to have was mentality. So we talked about like, you have to talk about, you know, the three point shooting free throws, obviously just a talent overall to get your own shot, but also the mentality. It's almost like what I would call a lack of like, you know, self consciousness about

like I'm shooting too much, you know, I mean, so you have to have that to and if you get it going, like to keep going and have teammates that one, hey, man, it's pretty cool. Let's see if we can do something for him. And I still think defenses would not allow it to happen by the what they could employ against you, just to make sure, even if you give up on winning the game, right?

We're not going to let this dude, no one's going to do this to our team tonight mentality.

“That's why I think it would be hard for anybody to get to that level.”

So I didn't think really we'd see, you know, in 80 point game. Well, that's why Bam could have made those once they really started guarding them on the three is he's just not that kind of shooter. I think for somebody to do it, I think you'd have to hit 15 threes and you'd have to go to the line at least like 20 times, right?

So you're getting like like two thirds of the points, basically from threes and free throws.

So if you get to 66 that way, they need to make 17 twos to get there, which is crazy. But if you're, I wrote, I went back to it. Well, I went back and I read the column I wrote after Kobe hit 81, because I watched the game. I had somebody call me and I was watching like basically, maybe the last half of it.

And I watched, by the way, I watched every play of that game. I just happened to be at home scrolling around, and there's no reason to be invested in that night. Yeah. It was just a league game.

I like watching Kobe. I'll watch the game.

“It actually happened to watch that game live as it was playing out.”

Right. This one, this one with Bam, I was like, I was actually in Denver. I was eating dinner at the hotel, sitting at the bar, had a bunch of stuff. I was kind of working, preparing for the game, watching, I don't think what was the other game that was on.

It was a double header that night. No, I'm one of those things. It felt like sparse. Yeah. Yeah.

That's right. It was, it was positive saying I told you. So I was watching that game. And also, you're getting these text messages just coming in. But now I kind of put my phone up, propped up my iPads on this side, and I'm looking

one eye on it. And then basically from the middle of the third quarter on, I kind of just went all in on the heat game. I just watched a rest of it. Yeah.

Well, it was funny hearing people talk about the Kobe game, because, and I spelled this out in the peace I wrote, you know, that team was built for him to be selfish that year. And he kind of embraced that, too, but they owed him was the only other good offense to put in the team, and at some point, they realized, Kobe, go nuts, be a ball hug. Like I was comparing them to the guy in team Wolf, just like having the ball, stealing

it for his own teammates, like joke at about like, this is our whole offense is this guy, right? And he would take 28, 29 shots a game, and 12 free throws, and that's, they decided this is our best chance to win, and he embraced it. And there was something kind of, I wrote the phrase inherently selfish, because, like,

in the 81 point game, he had two assists, right? He's just out there, he's doing his thing, but it was also riveting watch, because it's like, you know, this guy's basically this is like watching a video game, you know, and Toronto was trying to do some stuff and send multiple guys, and he was just solving everything, and just killing him like he had done to Dallas a couple of weeks before, the hullabaloo

after people thought it was, you know, it was pretty split, and it was very similar to the BAM thing, like this is in basketball, what is this, he chased this near the end, is this good thing, like his teammates don't even seem that happy about it. There was a lot of, like, that kind of vibe, the BAM thing, the teammates were like, delighted,

I think that's what made it so unusual.

They were like, holy shit, like BAMs, the BAMs have the night of his life. This is the best. Well, and it's, that's the thing, there was, I know there's a lot of talk to next morning, some people really just hated what they watched and they saw it, and I looked at it differently, completely, I looked at it, like, if you're talking about a guy that garner the utmost respect

from everybody on his team, and everybody on the coaching staff, everybody in the organization that you're happy for something like this, this crazy night to happen, it's him. So, all that support behind him, and so I'm looking at Spau, but I've got so much respect for, and I'm going, okay, find himself in this situation, where I felt like he did have

an obligation to the player, because this is a one-off night, a historic night.

This guy's got a chance to do something, that's, you know, Lee, to been done a couple of times in a history of the league, he's on pace to do it. It's almost my obligation to help him do it. I was sitting there watching Spau and I'm thinking, gosh, as he hoped that he makes all these free throws, because imagine if what was going on with, you know, they were

fouling to get the ball back, and then the Wizards were failing, other players, so that they couldn't shoot, so he goes to the line, and he's got 81, and he's going to the line for these two free, what if he missed both free throws, and you've got a minute and a half to go. And now, poor Eric Spaucer, like, he, they have to keep this up. Now, at that point,

“you're all in to try to get your past 81, I believe. So I'm still going to Spauco, and”

he doesn't really want to be a part of this environment, with this, the weirdness of

what we're doing right now, like the basketball part, but I also felt like a lot of love and admiration for his player, and he's tried to help his player have a historic night. It's just like the same thing when I say with teams, you know, the year that gold state won 73 games, and people are talking about, "Well, you don't take your foot off the gas." And I'm going, man, I don't know. There's something you could accomplish as a group,

the greatest record of history, the league, and you have a chance to do that. I almost feel like there's an obligation to do that, to put yourselves in the record books, man, for eternity. And I'm going to look, turns out they didn't want to championship that year, and people are pointing at that. I thought there was no correlation. I really didn't. But it's this situation here. You have a chance. It's right in front of you.

Suppose there's going to help him do that. His teammates were going to help him do it, and he was able to get it done, even though it looked a lot different. Like at the end of that game, then there's certainly Kobe's game. I don't know what Will's game looked like at the end of that game. So I don't know what that looked like, but that was that was that was a strange end of the game. A lot of people had a problem with that. It was very controversial.

All of these games have that though. I remember in Larry Bird tried to score 60 against the Hawks, and they were trying to fow to get the ball back at the end. Spulster had, I don't know if he saw it in a press conference saying he's like, I apologize to no one. He was like, look, we didn't think exactly what I would expect him to say. 100% and I love that. I do. And like I said, he's, for me, he's, you know, he's one of the guys that represents the gold standard of this league,

for coaching. And a guy that I would pick if I could have any 10 players in the world to coach, whether it was like eight year olds or the Olympic team or, you know, a foreign team or an

“NBA team, and I had one month to prepare. I, I were exposed to his fight by me if you want to go”

with him to coach that team. And he might be who I would pick. So I've so much respect from I'm glad he said that. There's one other point I want to make about this that we talk about profile of player that I would take to do something like this. There is another component. Strength and stamina. Yeah, right. Right. Because, okay. So look at, look at the guys we're talking about. Kobe, but now you're cool. But now you're cool with his stamina and his just driving like

that was adrenaline for him, the competitive adrenaline. You have to have it. You know, you look at a guy like we talked about Luca and strength to do it. Stam, well, I'm saying the physical strength to be able to make that many shots and not get worn out. I don't think Luca would get worn out if he hadn't had one of those nights going. But the reason I bring it up is look at a couple other guys. That would be really tough for a guy like Curry. Right. Okay. He'd have to make 23. And then

you're still 40 points short. Where's that coming from? Okay, don't give you 10 free throws. Can you still go make 15 other shots with all of the running and the dribbling and like he's

“640s kind of slightly built and like it's a lot of contact. Wemby, what about Wemby?”

Same thing. He'd wear that. Like, that's a lot of physical toll. Like, oh, that guy is built like that. And like, the amount of contact he'd be facing all night. Now, look, one thing he does have going for him. He could shoot a three whatever he wanted to even over double teams and get it off. So if he wanted to shoot 33s in a game, he could. And no one could really stop that unless you

component. That's why I got like hard and would be a good candidate. Like, when he was in Houston, because he could make 10, 12, 15, threes. And he could also get the line 15, 20 times. Yeah. And make make some floaters. And like, he has a strength for the other team out for the time. Yeah. He could foul out like the top four singer. So a lot of people are asked me the last two days how I felt about this because they know I care about the history and stuff.

First of all, I love when the guys go for it. Because ultimately it's the stupid regular season game.

“And as you said earlier, when you ever chance to do, make history, you should go for it. I”

remember Carmelo took him out, took himself out of a game when he had like 62. It is like his peak with the next. He took himself out. I forgot how many minutes there were. It was like five, six minutes left. And I was like, dude, stay in. Like, this is it. This is your one chance. When they every time for the rest of eternity, when somebody else is in a situation like this, they show all the names. And you could be one of the names. Like, that's, that's cool. Nobody remember the circumstances.

But the biggest thing to me. And this is when people are like, well, that's bastardizing the game. What they did at the end, Miami. Like, this is bastardizing the game. Fucking Washington. Watch that these teams that tank and, you know, trade for guys that are injured or come up like with Utah's doing in Sacramento. Like, hey, is there a surgery you need? Because we, you should get the surgery now while our season is so going on. Like, we have eight teams in the

league that are completely bastardizing every aspect of the season for ticket holders. You know, for competitiveness, we have games where teams went by 40, 45, 50 points. So I'm like, guess what, Washington, there's 30 NBA teams. You're all professional athletes. You're all getting played. Fucking stop the guy. If you don't mind about it, don't the rest of the league can't be like, oh, this is, but like, these guys are professional athletes. You're like, go stop it. He's got

70. Don't let score anymore. Here's the other point. Let's go back. Let's go to the starting

“of the game. Okay. I understand where the wizards are at. Yeah. How does man have 30 in a quarter?”

And Bill, not did he not only did he get 30 in a quarter. Did you notice they're starting lineup? Oh, I noticed this is, this is, this is who the, and I'm not knocking these guys. But I'm just saying about no Tyler hero, no Tyler hero, no Norman Powell. I'm talking about from a, from a, from a game plan, I understand. If you're not trying to win, just from a game plan, you're, you're, you're a professional team. It's BAM out of bio, my or gardener,

Kelly Larson, Davey Admitchall, and y'all can show this. Yeah, maybe guard BAM. Maybe BAM is the guy that you're looking at on the whiteboard going, you know, let's, we probably want to run an extra guy at BAM, right, because they don't have hero, and they don't have Norman Powell primarily. Um, they were giving them white open threes. It's like this is the only score they have

first quarter, right? And even if even if that, that played out the way it did, and you're going,

well, who's expecting BAM to come out and shoot like that early in the game? I got news for you, man. The huddle during the between the first and second quarter, maybe then is a good time to address this. Or I got an idea. How about when he's up to 55 or whatever he had to have time? Maybe at

“half time, you go, you know what? I think BAM's feeling it. Maybe we should run an extra guy at BAM.”

Or how about when he's at 65's approaching 70, you finally go, you know what? That's it, line in the sand. He's not getting any more, but they did it, really. Until it was obvious that he had a legitimate shot at 80 points. Now it was like that's when they started full court, two guys denying them and like all the crazy stuff started playing out. But it that should have taken place way before that, way before it, just from a pride standpoint, look, your team,

Washington, they've got 16 wins. Do you also want your team to have that? Seriously, no, they want them to run to. No, these guys, and we saw this with Filly during the process. You're just teaching, it's like, oh, this is all going to be good because when the draft comes, we're going to top for a pick. Everybody you have on your team, you're just putting a stink on. And I was saying this during the process with Filly, like, you're teaching these

guys that losing's okay, skipping, skipping games are okay. You have a coach. That was watching Will Hardy last night. They're playing the next. Utah's beating the next, right? In

third quarter, it's like they're trying to lose. And it's like, oh, this will be fun. How are

they going to lose him by 17, the next flipped the game, I think by like 27, 28 points, they're cutting a willhardy, and he's just kind of like, you know, it's like, I don't have no full hearty's a good coach. I know that if EMA had left the Celtics and willhardy was an already Utah, willhardy would have been the coach, because he was the number one, right? So he goes to Utah. Willhardy can coach, and he's one of the really bright young boys. I'm just saying we haven't

him loose and going, hey, man, every night go try to win, right? But I'm confident when that opportunity comes for him, whether that's Utah or somewhere else, I hope it's, I think you're able to prove that. Because this is, when he's in that environment three straight years of

watching him basically call off the dogs when they have a chance to win and February

my April. But anyway, with Washington, what I watch these teams, I'm like, you know what, we should be trying to embarrass these teams. It's embarrassing to watch us. It's embarrassing that they're charging full ticket prices for it. And all of these dudes like, I just don't understand how this helps Washington long term to just be humiliated by BAM out of Bion. I hope it keeps happening because maybe this stuff will change. I don't know. I sounds like you and I

are in agreement then. I like you. It sounds like I had far more problem with Washington was doing

“than with what Miami was doing trying to give. Okay. Because that's how I felt. And I was actually”

a little bit surprised at the, the volume out there the next day. Or even that night, but certainly

the next day, this was a talking point everywhere of how many people were like so upset with like

what the heat we're doing. I have a much bigger problem with what the Wizards did. And I actually totally get where Eric's bolster was coming from the organization. And this is a guy that's revered and he plays the right way every single night. And he had this crazy start to a game. And they decided to go for it against a opponent that was going to be willing to let that happen for the most part. And everyone has go for it. And everyone has Indonesia with everything that's happened

in the past. And anytime somebody has chased points or any of this stuff, the game usually degenerates down the stretch like that. So let me ask to this question. Last last one on this for me. So then the other thing a people were talking about was just like that that full screen. Do you have a

“problem now with the full screen that says Will Bamcobie when you put those three numbers up there?”

Because I just don't understand what people are so upset about that. And there's a lot of people out there. Because I'm just not, man. It is what it is. It's the nature of the game. People are going to break records. They're going to put up numbers. Like this change all the time. And so that was like felt like a lot of people like that was their problem because it was Kobe brother. No, the Kobe thing like like and he was a big Kobe fan. I actually was wondering if he got 81 and he was going

to leave. And be like, I'm going to share 81 with Kobe, but he was like, no, break it for the full screen thing. I like it because years from now, every time we'll see him be like, oh my god, remember it would be a matter of 83 points. I think it's going to be a fun rinkle. And by the way, this is what makes basketball great. We have these seasons that are too long. We're shit happens during the season. Scott Skyall said 30 assists once was in that game. Bill Russell had, you were right. Bill Russell

had 55 rebounds in a playoff game. Right. Uh, I forget George McGinn has said 420 turnovers in a season. Like they're in these great weird numbers that that's part of what makes basketball great. And the baby I called I called the NBA is only 30, 20, 20 game in history last year. I was on the

call for that. No, that was 30, 20, 20. Right. Never thought I'd ever see. I was just like honored

when the game ended that I was a part of that to watch. I never thought it was possible. And that's what to do that. That's the highest. Well, I think the difference with Kobe versus Bam is it's weird to say it. But Kobe was just so good during that stretch that there was a real artistry to a game after game. You felt like, like, they're building this around him being able to maybe score 50 to 70 every night. You just don't know when it's happening. He was weirdly

must watch TV. Even though the team was like relatively not that happy. I don't think Phil Jackson loved it. But they won 46 games basically with two offensive players and no bench. And it was just because of what he was doing that after I voted for him for MVP that year. I thought I thought it was

“the best thing anyone did that year. Even though I didn't really love it as like a basketball fan”

who loves values like team basketball and shit with that. But that was the year that he had that outrage. It was like a super long streak of 40 point games, right? Was that that year? No, that was earlier. This was the year he ever was, he ever just 35 a game this year. So I don't know. I thought it was fun and it mixed up the season. It was fun to watch people get so bad about it. Get bad about the taking. Get bad about it. I don't think we have shitty lineups and not knowing how to play defense.

Yeah. I hear you, man. There's a lot of other things you could get upset about right now as opposed to a guy having like an epic night and then maybe not maybe definitely sort of bending the end of that game to try to allow him to get that thing across the finish line to the number he was trying to get to, which was 82 at least. And the guy with the guys, you know, the guy start to the game dictated and he even said it. Like, well, when did you start thinking about like this,

I kind of thinking like, I could do some stuff like that. You know, the other things.

“Absolutely. The crowd. That by Amy crowd, which I've seen good versions of it, bad versions of it,”

especially during the regular season. That crowd was delirious down the stretch. Like that's the work that was the most fun basketball game you could have gone to randomly. There's some great deals out there in the NBA wilderness that are right for the taking, which we're going to be diving to in this special segment. It is called best deal ever Hall of Fame brought to you by Domino's. Now, they've got their own best deal ever going. Any pizza, any toppings for 99, 99. Let's see what

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area and charges may vary. I want to talk about Quay Leonard, quick. I have a couple other things for you. Quay Leonard, they're 29 and 22 in a place. He's averaging 31 a game in those wins. They're 20, 7 and 11 in their last 38. During that stretch, he's 30, 30 a game basically, almost a 50, 49-day guy. And he was so good last nine against Minnesota, you missed it because you were doing the other game. He just like killed Minnesota. I actually think this is the best

seat I've ever seen him play. So I was like, man, this is a little unusual. He's 34. He has all these dangerous stuff. Like, how many times somebody has averaged 28 a game who's been 34 years or older? How many guys do you think I'm done this? Bied the guess. 34 or older average,

“34 years older, they're 28 a game. Hand. Like, you think you think there'll be a few guys, right?”

I'm going to say, I'm going to say five or less. Okay. Michael Jordan once Bernard King, did you play with Bernard that year? 91, was there? There's not anybody else to go. Steph Curry in a 2023, LeBron twice in Kevin Durant. And all of those guys did it at 34 except for LeBron the two years, 37 and 38. And it was like, wow, this is more unusual than I expected. And this is why I think when we talk about titles and age, I don't think we do a good enough job of

it because the league just favors young people, especially in April, May June, right? You're just better off having, Shay at age 26, 27 than you are having Kevin Durant at age 37. You're better off having Jamal Murray and his mid 20s than you are having Steph Curry in his mid 30s,

once we get to a certain level. But the, the, the, why like, first of all, I never thought he'd be

in this position where it just seemed like he was going to be hurt, not hurt just back and forth the rest of his career. But then being at this level, almost being a 50, 40, 90 guy for two thirds of the season. I just did amazing stuff. He's single handly saved their season. He's an, he is an absolute machine. He, he is as machine like on the night, he's playing well, as any player I've ever seen. It's so automatic. There's, there's like zero margin for

error on his job shot because he gets gets no higher than eight inches above the rim. It's, and it goes straight and it hits the, hits the inside back rim and goes straight down. Like, like he's one of those guys that like, and I should try to do this when I would like get, get like a shooting talk or

something where like, you, you, I'd, I'd always make a joke like I train the ball to come back to me.

“Yeah. You're shooting it perfectly. That's what it does. It goes in hits the rim and with that”

English comes right back to reality. Like, he does it in games with two dudes trying to stop them. And it's like so automatic when he gets on these roles. And I love the fact that Anthony Edward

It's been a while since like Coli, like, you know, won that championship in Toronto. Anthony had it was just still so young trying to figure his way. He gave him so much respect after the game and said, man, if this dude did not get hurt, how the injuries he's had you come up with the all-time great players in the history this league. And he was talking about from his experience

“playing against the guy at this advanced stage after all the injuries. That's how much respect”

Anthony Edwards has for like what a load this guy is to guard how hard he is to stop his strength. His balance. It's, it's, it's just, it's too much the way he dominates the 15 to 18 feet, man, all night long. Like that's his wheelhouse. And then he added the three points shot later in his career.

But imagine Bill imagine what this guy's career would look like if he didn't lose basically,

what is it going about five full seasons to injuries? Right, Zack and I did his only 34. Zack and I did a deep dive on him a couple of weeks ago on my Sunday pod. And there's also the weird part where the first four years of his career have no parallel to what happened next where he's basically like well, points to game score is like a 3 in D guy. And then all of a sudden now it's 2,026. And he's got like as as much of a bag as any forward in the league, right?

He's scoring all these different ways. If you're just talking about pure talent and LeBron is that if you're just talking pure talent forwards this century and LeBron's first.

“It's probably him versus KD for that second forward spot. Right?”

Pure talent wise. If it's like I could have the peak version of either of these guys for one season. Who would you want? It's pretty good argument. Oh, yeah. No, you might want to, you might kind of, it might be 5545 toward Kawaii that I would lean. You know, I would get a lot and I'm glad you kind of injected him into that conversation with those guys because most people would think that's beyond the realm, but it's not man. Kawaii Leonard is that good.

He deserves to be in conversations like that. He's doing it again this year. And that team has been really interesting. And they went through the hard thing, the power left and the hard and comes in and hard is gone. And they got and they get garlands and really nice pick up. And then Matthew has been great for them. Matthew and has given them kind of exactly what Matthew was at his best for Indiana. And but they weren't all that frequent those nights. So if they

want to get into a best of seven and man would not be interesting. If you get Kawaii Leonard and

“these clippers in a best of seven as a six feet or something. No way. Oh, I think whatever,”

like, hold that seven. See, Sam with Coiler. The seven seed, who would they be playing as the two seed? San Antonio, the team that boost him the fans of the weekend every time he gets the ball. Now eight years later, they boom every time he gets the ball. I think that's that series would be awesome.

I, I, I first of all, they were six and twenty one. It's nuts that they're even in the conversation.

This is even more nuts because I, you know, I have the clippers ticket. I have some clipper fans of my life. And everybody's like, man, if we had neither house or we'd be able to potentially pull two seven, I said, let's cut neither house. They're out of nowhere. It became important. They're one big short. They're like 15 minutes of a big guy. They basically, they're relying on Brook Lopez, who's old way too much. And they can go small ball. John Collins is out now. He's coming back.

But Mather and gave them something that a phrase that you could not say on your husband broadcasts, but I can say here in a podcast. He gave them some fuck you. He's got, he's got some fuck you energy that combined. Chris Don has that too. John Collins weirdly has that. This team is an, and then Kawai is like nobody even messes with him. He's like Clint Eastwood. He's over here. This team's got it. There's a feistyness to them now that I don't think they had before. And in a playoff series,

we just have to go four and three. I don't know. I don't really necessarily want to want to see Kawai. Now, he can get hurt tomorrow. Who knows? No, man. That's the, yeah, I know. And ultimately, Oklahoma City San Antonio, and they can only get his highest seven. So they could be a seven or eight, because they're not going to be able to get into the sick. So you're talking about playing your Oklahoma City of San Antonio in the first round. I'm not thinking the clippers are going to beat

either of those teams. But man would that be compelling and interesting to watch Kawai Leonard go up against those two teams if he's feeling healthy and right, because even last year against Denver,

like he did a numbers in that series. Well, and his efficiency has always been there. So to watch

him take on that challenge with a clippers team that, you know, basically throw out the first third of the season and look at their record the rest of the way, that would be a really interesting first round series for either of those teams. I want that knowing the titles so we can find out of Chris Paul got a ring and a play I've share and I think that'll be a fun. So clinked fresh music.

Yep, YoKage SGA KD and Wambir are going to be all in BA guys. I think those are those are four. That fifth spot. I got Kawai. I got Anthony Edwards. I got Jalen Brown. I have Luca who's really

“come on. I think the last like maybe ten days or so. Maybe even some Donovan Mitchell. Who's”

you? Who would be your fifth guy if you're filling out about right now? I'm giving you a okay, YoKage SGA KD Wambir. And by the way, you can bump KD if you want, take two from that next group. Who would you have? Now I wouldn't bump KD KD's kids to me. KD's a lock in for me as well. He's a lock. So that last spot. Here's here's what's interesting. If you ask me this question, you know, a three weeks ago. We're still a lot of uncertainty around Tatum's return. I would have thought Jalen Brown had a great chance. And he may still. But as Tatum continues to get his legs and his minutes and like has

more of an impact on the game. And you know, he's not as like kind of differential offensively as he's been as you would expect him to be to this point. It's just a natural cannibalism of some of these big nights that Jalen Brown has had to carry that team. And it's weird because it's like right here at the end of the year.

It's actually going to hurt him a little bit. He's absolutely had a season worthy of first team all NBA. There is no question about it. And if Tatum didn't come back,

I think there's a really good chance he gets that last spot. But now I think there's going to be, especially like you know, imagine they went some games down like Tatum does like kind of find it. And he's got some 25 30 point games. It feels like it's going to hurt Jalen Brown. Even though probably shouldn't because they wouldn't be in position to do what we said at the beginning of this broadcast, which is a man. This team might be able to get to the finals. If Jalen Brown didn't position them to be there with his play by the time Tatum come back came back.

“But it is going to hurt him. I think. So that's why I think a guy like Luca, if the Lakers”

can continue to play better and they put together a 7-8 game winning streak or something like that with his numbers. And leaving the league scoring on that like Luca's got a really good chance. But I think Jalen Brown because he plays both ends at a higher level defense with Luca. And what he did with that roster

to get them really into the second seed, really with his offense carrying him every night,

he's got such a claim to it man. But I think the Tatum thing might hurt him here down the stretch. Yeah, I had Jalen for that last spot for now. And I feel like he's going to get past for other reasons you said. But I also, it's weird because he, because we don't have anything to eat. We have to find things to talk about for six months during this season. There was some advanced metrics of like, well, when he's out of the lineup, what about this? And I'm just telling you like first of all, they designed that bench unit to come in and be like these crazy defensive

peoples, right? And they're going into teams' benches. And that's one of the reasons the bench stats were so good.

“That's why Hugo has like one of the best on-off ratings in the history of the league.”

But with Jalen, I just thought the durability and the consistency of like put it on my shoulders. I'm showing up night after night. I don't think we value that. I keep saying this on my pods. I don't think we value that enough when we, when we look at this stuff. Just, you know, I'm just knowing somebody is going to show up night after night. When you don't really have a lot of guys, I don't think you can put a price on that. I completely agree, man, toughness and

like just competitive professionalism are is a skill. Yeah. And not too often we call those kind of things intangibles. It's a skill, man. And Jalen Brown has it. And you know, I was having this conversation with somebody a couple of days ago, we're like, you know, the attain of thing. Like, you think it's any part of Jalen Brown, like, a little bit just, you know, from from a player's had this kind of a year, just a little bit, you know, not bother. He wants to win and take him doesn't better chance to do.

But the same time as a man, that was really fun. Like to show you what a cable. And I said,

you know what, actually, I don't think so. Because here's the bottom line. He rang the bell

when he was given the opportunity. He basically showed everybody. Yeah, what his true ceiling is as like the top guy, the alpha, the top of the food chain guy on a team. He showed you what he's capable of doing. He dialed his scoring average up to basically 30 points of game with the same level defense career highs across the board in a lot of different categories. You know, you know, guys that were role players primarily elevated to higher roles to try to give him

supplemental offense, they all did it. But if he doesn't play the way he did, they're not doing

validation. I got the opportunity. Look what I am. And so now, yeah, he's going to have to give up

some of that would take him starts to really find his game. Ultimately, it might lead to them

filling in the finals. He went into championship again. But so he'll take that because I think now he proved to people. Like if he averaged 23 a game and shot 43% and they had eight less wins, like people would view him again. He's a really nice number two. What he wanted to prove to people

“was no man, let's just like I could look like as a number one. And that's why I think mentally,”

there's got to be a security about taking them coming back because of what he was able to do while he was out and the validation of that he was able to master. I'm glad you put it that way. I obviously agree. He proved whatever the one thing that he probably felt like he had to prove that everybody over the course of his career was I actually did sacrifice the last few years and I didn't get enough credit for it, right? I just showed you what I could do if I'm the number one guy. I think

what really struck me like these last six, seven days is how happy everybody including Jalen was for Tato because this wasn't one of the, you know and obviously that's goes without saying to some degree but he was with the team all the time. Like sometimes when you'd have like Hawaii and some of these other guys when they're rehabbing they're just gone, right? They're like nobody even sees them and they're not really round or they want to rehab on their own and the pop in and out.

Tato went on every road trip. He was like on the bench like rooting for everybody and just was stayed part of the team and they knew how much time he had put in to get back to where he got back and I think Jalen, it probably brought those guys closer would be my guess like Jalen held the forefront now they're back. You did that Cleveland game on Sunday watching them kind of still

trying to figure out how to integrate Tato back in and Jalen had that incredible third quarter

which was like okay I'm going to take over for these five minutes here and he's just going to be better at that now because he has the reps so I think ultimately it's great for both of them. And and look there's a great, I mean there's a great, great cast to choose from for first team

“all league and I mean you should all the guys you listed man like they can make a claim.”

I think the guy that's got the greatest argument of that group is Jalen Brown. Based on based on what they were missing and it wasn't just Tato. It's like they reinvented their team to a certain extent, but how they pulled the sport. Right. And just not not just like keep us you know floating at 500 and hope that Tato can help you know us as a six-seed run through the Eastern Conference man they position themselves to play two home

rounds in the postseason as Tato starts around in the form and that's because of what Jalen Brown was able to do offensively so I have so much respect for the guy anyway but like I just have a new completely newfound respect for like what this guy ultimately represents every night

because I've always loved this competitive this now hardy defense the challenge he takes it's

seriously every day just they don't shy away for putting more top guys they don't worry about keeping out of foul trouble any that stuff he takes on the challenge and now question was can he dial it up to like 30 because that's a totally different level of responsibility every night in this league and he did it well it's a little easier for him now too because the Tato the Tato gravity that compote gravity is the new word of the year this year but it's just a little

different when you have Tato on that side able to punish smart guys. I felt bad for Jalen on Tuesday night because you know I watched the entire Celtic season Jalen had it going in that spurs game and got kicked out really you know as usual was getting calls got shut that abounds got mad got thrown up by the ref who didn't even make the call and the shame of it was like you talk about missed opportunities with the league this year that had changed to be one of the best games of

the season right so thanks are like they're they're like they're resting Tato in the okay see game they're ready to throw hand makers at the spurs when be their strategies let when be shoot threes which he made over and over again but it was really competitive feisty with the Harper Brothers

“both in there and Jalen was great and I think it's seven assists when he got kicked out”

but I felt like that was going to be a real statement game for him and the rug got pulled out unfortunately so I felt bad for him too and I talked about it a lot yesterday you know how that all played out and it was just so unfortunate because of what that game represented I mean you potentially you mean you know I think about how to lay money on it today I would say Oklahoma City gets to the finals but we just talked about San Antonio's chances they're right there so potentially this

that's an NBA finals pretty potentially and and you got to take them back for the game

got everything you could ask for your winding down toward half time and then that happens

and it just changed the entire second half of the game and it's just yeah just from a

just a pure viewership standpoint and like fans went to watch two great teams that had you have so much respect for their way they play to and and like everybody's there too like we got to every all the major components are played man this is going to be great and it was living up to it to that point in the game and then boom that happens I felt bad for him too maybe we'll get again we don't need to talk about San Antonio's ceiling because people see what it

is now I asked Zach on we're trying to figure out on Sunday who Harper I just infiltrated by but this weird game he has where how he uses his body and the post ups and the slithery stuff on the baseline I was like what guard was like this and the only guy I could really think of was Jason Kid how he would do some weird back to the basket and mismatched stuff and was physical and you know he's Harper five years from now is going to be 15 pounds heavier he has this footwork

slither stuff already but he's also going to be bigger and more physical and I just I don't

“remember a guard quite like him plus his left handed on top of everything else do you remember”

anybody that reminded you of him? No I like the comparison of Kid with the only exception being this because I like that when you talk about like the physicality of their game the strength of their game like the way that they could like manipulate read leverage like when they get they get a guy in

their back they can read leverage into which know which way to spin and they have never make mistakes

every time they guy lose one way they're going the other direction doing difference is like Kid was doing a lot of that two steps ahead mentally knowing he was going to bake a play for somebody on the tail end of it where as Harper what's the score right like Harper is getting you in that spot he's going to score I am so impressed with him by the way another guy and they they they remind me of each other in a lot of ways as AJ Mitchell because they're both kind of

similarly built they're left handed they're very hungry as scorers and okay see just got him back and he was incredible in that game but Sunday against Denver I mean he act like he hadn't been out at all even out forever comes back in immediately picks up Ray left off to really to meet top

shelf lead guards don't know when they're going to get like their own team where it is 35 minutes

tonight and I got them all because obviously that's going to be tough on okay see when you got SGA in jail and Williams and then you look at the young guards with Castle and Darren five to San Antonio so I don't know when if it's going to be with the organizations are with now but at some point both of those guys are going to be guys they're playing 33 34 minutes a night on really good teams and they're at the starting point guard and they're doing some serious

“work in that role whenever that's going to happen that's how much respect I have for both of them”

yeah harpers inevitable AJ Mitchell sounds like GM Tim Legler taking over like the pelicans or somebody would be like we're going after Mitchell tell you man would get them yes I tell you right now I'm telling you I think he's got it in them now look I don't know when that's hit you know his his ascension here happened a little bit later he's older a little bit older so it's a little bit different path for him right but it doesn't matter he's still young and it's happening now and

it's he opened up everybody's eyes in that organization with what happened this year and everybody around the league really so then everybody I've talked to kind of has a same opinion on yeah I like to think this dude can flat out go and he's not faced by big moments and so that's why yeah I just can't wait to see but you're right no there's no doubt about harpers at all like he's going to be a star I don't know if Mitchell will be a star but I think he can be a lead guard

on a good team in this league and put up good numbers harpers and I'll be a guy at some point and it's like he will make an opportunity probably multiple um did you by the way man I think castle has a chance to do that if you agree really solves the shooting thing he's better but you know I'm talking about at some point that means can you shoot a three off the dribble

“a few times a night because that's what guards on that level do and shoot it at a clip that at”

least gets north of 36% 38% like get up in that range with with his defense and the way he physically attacks the rim I think castle is another one of those guys like there's no telling how good this guy could be in two or three years well you're betting on a psycho competitor to fill in holes in his game over the next three years which he's going to do right so stuff he can't do yet yeah by the time he's 26 so he'll be able to do it at the leagues it's really good shape with some

of these young guys they've been too trustworthy I know I know you're too busy with MBA to follow college but there's some crazy guy not even beyond the top four there's some crazy scores in this draft and all kinds of things coming so it's pretty fun last question did the SGA yoke

spirit of those guys down the stretch and hitting these f_u threes did that change your yoke is

“the best part in the league at all um yeah listen yes I think that the you know yoke is to me”

was clearly that label there's no doubt now it's this it's you know you can lean towards Shay I've no problem with it it's certainly a much better debate I don't have any problem but people that's the one to say shake you'll just Alexander's the best plan to league the stuff he's doing with those type of shots at the end of games like how difficult those shots are and he doesn't go it won't go in both directions by the way like that's most guys have their

favorite direction they have to get to if they know they're going to take a deep step back shot he can go either direction equally he's a very good defender it's impossible to keep this guy out of the lane he's as bad as automatic as it comes in the mid range 55% like that's when you get into his efficiency levels that are just like ridiculous for a guard that takes a lot of contested shots no man he's isn't I got no problem anybody wants to say shake you'll just Alexander

“best part of the NBA you're not I'm not going to fight you hard on that I think it's an absolute”

legitimate debate and it's 100% subjective just come with a good argument come with your criterion state your case you're not going to be wrong if that's your opinion he's definitely moved into a one A one B situation for me and I think the question is which position do you value more like it hits that like most of the time the last 15 years perimeter guys have been the ones that have been driving titles right where you have the everyone's the value of

the honest title or the yokeg title but for the most part it's guys that have the ball guys you know who are 25 35 from the basket who are then trying to create something and that's been the best asset to have that was why into in the luka draft I was going nuts because I was like I can't how did somebody take eight and over luka when we have already established this decade that the thing you would want the most is an elite perimeter guy this is the number one thing you need

but yokeg is so good it's almost like he's a perimeter guy even as a center I don't know it's a great argument to have I thought that game that game was like I'd like the late 80s with some of the games we would watch with mj versus bird mj versus magic as they have versus mad like that's what it reminded me of just like two great guys in the peak of their powers just trying to beat each other and I don't know I don't know where that goes in the playoff September's health it's going

to be amazing that's as good as this league has to offer what you watched in that game let me just

I agree you know how tight it was the level of shot making the talent that the way the two teams play and how much you respect the way that they play it's just fun and now top it those guys delivering when they had to deliver right big shots big hard shots SJ's last shot kind of pushed off but I didn't mind it but that step back from going to his right which is a harder shot for ready last what last last question are you happy with the commander's off season

so I feel pretty good about what we've done but at the same time this renewed cynicism kicked in that I had shed I had shed all of the cynicism because of how much faith I had and Adam Peters coming in and changing the head coach to coordinators obviously you know you get your franchise quarterback I had shed it you know what all of that stuff that I've been carrying around for 25 years like it's gone it's kind of crap back into my side just because of how

bad it was last year and they're going to chalk it up mostly to injuries it was a lot more than that a lot more than that I was scarred by what I watched last year how do you go to NFC championship game and then win five games and lose eight and a row and a lot of those weren't

“competitive like that shouldn't be the drop off no matter how many guys can hurt you should have”

that drop off you should at least be in the mix in a fight eight eight but a man we fight every night because we're a winning organization now we've reverted so I'm going to tell you I like I like the names I you know I like what on paper it looks like it's adding I'm cynical that it's actually going to work out that way I'm just where I'm at right now have you studied the NFL draft because you have the seventh pick I have no I haven't gotten that for you because of the NBA season but I

will be I will have that buttoned up because there's a chance like make sure for us things love is the best part in the draft the running back there's a chance they spent all the money they just spent went into their defense yeah so that's been the the credit should be that was it was just laughable how bad their defense was that's your that's where the money's been

spent so now talk is they're going to turn the first round that a draft into an offensive pick

Americans are really good player but that's like the only running back we have but it's other

guys of science with other teams actually probably done so like we don't have any other running back

“so I think that probably is the position that they're going to target and that is the name”

that looks like it's going to be there when they make that pick would be pretty exciting get a healthy

Danny yeah get love some skill guys all right legs I'll see you in a couple weeks before so it's

“what yeah we'll do one more right for the playoffs and then you have to be exact spot once but”

uh I've been joined here in the game say how to uh sad of the rev Mike Green said a ruko

man RJ thanks for coming always good to see you anytime Bill talking a couple weeks

“all right that's it for the podcast thanks to legs thanks to Gahoundard Wardo as always don't forget”

I'm going to be on live on Netflix 4 o'clock PT right after March madness so stay tuned for that have a great weekend I will see you on Sunday 21 plus and president select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas star casino or 18 plus in president DC to tuck your Wyoming up didn't required rewards are non-medrable restrictions apply including bonus and token expiration leg requirements and max wage or amounts c-terms at

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