The Jaylen Brown Colonoscopy Trade (and More NBA Summer Reactions) With Chris Ryan and Kirk Goldsberry

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The Bill Simmons Podcast live on Netflix, a rare morning podcast, Kurt Goldspirion

Chris Ryan are here wanting to mention we've put up the last episode of From Hell on the rewatchables.

“We did Pacific Heights, and I thought we had escaped from hell last month, but apparently”

we did it because I have a story for you guys, so I'm just going to can you clear out for me? Yeah, it's all you. Just play some, play some bass as I talk to the audience. So I didn't have a reaction pod to this J.L. Brown trade yesterday because I was getting

a colonoscopy, and it was supposed to be last week, and I screwed up the prep, and the time they had was July 1st at 3 p.m. Pacific time, and if I didn't take that time, I would have gone on July 5th. So I'm like, all right, you know what, like I can do a Thursday pod, I'm going to get knocked out.

So I'm watching the World Cup game, and then go in, had a very similar experience to UCR where the guy said, there's bread, there's something about to get knocked out, he's like, where do you think LeBron's going? Oh my god, maybe Denver's, and then I'm out, wake up, and all I want to know is what happened with the World Cup game, and the guy's like, oh, they just had penalty, there's

a penalty kick, and actually saw the penalty kick, and whatever, come out by wife's waiting and pick me up, and she goes, they traded J.L. Brown, I'm like, I had just woke it up from anesthesia, and I'm not, as you guys know, not really coherent, and I'm like, where do you go?

She's like, to fill me for Paul George in two first round picks, and I'm like, I think I'm dead,

I think I died, the anesthesia killed me, and now I'm a dead person, and I'm like, and I'm just trying to process it, and I, it's, you know, it's like I have a head injury, and I'm like, is there more, are there more first round picks, did they get the clippers first? And she's like, so he's really upset, so now my daughter who likes J.L. Brown, and I'm like, all right, can you read me what the trade is, and she reads me in the trade, and then I stubble

out of this hospital place. So when this trade happened at 320 Pacific time, I had a camera in my ass and I had Paul George being rammed up my ass, and that was happening at the same time,

“and that's how I'm going to remember July 1st, 2026. So we're driving home, and I'm like,”

I'm like, should I do an emergency pod, and my wife's like, no, you're like barely coherent, trying to start giving me your social security number. So anyway, that's that, that's my story of finding out the trade. See our story was a little more pleasant in the mind, because he had just finished, they talked the thrones pod. Yeah, Van and Jomey, you tell the story. No, I was, I had just finished recording with Joe and Mal and Van and Jomey burst into the room, and I was like,

it felt like Lebron, but I couldn't, I couldn't tell, and obviously, after a lot of guessing, you did not guess Jomey Brown. I did not guess Jomey. Because I did not expect us to go back to this well after a foreford. I thought it was kind of a marital, but I guess I should have, it's a big time for Browns getting treated between Boston and Philadelphia. But yeah, we passed, we passed back and forth 29 year old Browns. And yeah, I mean, it was, it was, it was very,

in some ways, I feel like I'm still living in that moment, because I, I'm, I'm processing it, it was also bill like, because you were under general anesthesia for a lot of it. One of the most

hours of watching sports and getting the, the social media drip about it, like your brain is

“falling out of your ears by the end of the day. So I did England, it did most of Bench, Belgium,”

Senegal, the, the incredible work that all of our colleagues did talking about, making the

Lakers white again. And then, you say, Angel and Brown hit in there. It's like, I, I, I didn't, I could barely, like, my brain was scribbled eggs at a certain point. Kirk, I, I spent yesterday morning. I was so delighted by how bad the Lakers moves were. I was just torturing all the Lakers fans of my life. I did not think the Celtics were going to trade J. L. Brown. I thought, I thought, I, I thought they had canvas the league, not like what they saw. And they're like,

you know what, let's just walk in a room and we'll figure this out. There's not a trade for this. And we can talk for about a variety of reasons why there might not have been a trade for J. L. Brown. But I was having such a great day. I was going to get this colonoscopy done. I was going to watch the team USA under anesthesia. And it was just going to keep rolling. And I feel like I used up a lot of karma points with all the taunting texts. I did tell my Laker fan friends yesterday because I thought

what they did was hilarious. We'll talk about a way later. When did you find out about this J. L. Brown trade curve? Oh, I have a boring story. I was sitting in a chair getting ready for soccer and a typical Shoms notification washed across my screen. And I did the thing where I was like, is this is the real Shoms? This doesn't make sense. So I like had to verify it and want to be tricked. The most shocking part for me, Bill Simmons is the fact that the Boston Celtics traded

one of their best players to the Philadelphia 76ers. The historical part of that as a kid who grew up in Pennsylvania watching Dr. Jay and Barclay and Moses Malone go against your favorite team, your childhood. Like this is one of the great rivalries in the NBA. And I just shot to see a player of his caliber get traded from Boston to Philly. And as I sat there's like this is insane

just because of the two franchises involved. And then the second reaction of course is like

they didn't even get the best pick that Philly had. They got older and not younger somehow. And then you're just trying to, but it was I had of the three of us. I admittedly had the the most generic experience finding out. He's being shy, Bill, because right after that he went and got his own colonoscopy. He just didn't. It was just in a bar in Maine, but he's still got it. He got a homemade one back out of his cell. The Philly thing, I think it's the greatest rivalry in the history of the league.

People would point to South of Glaciers, but you're just talking about the finals where the Celtics just beat the Lakers every year. And then, you know, then they didn't play for a while. Then they played again in the 80s a couple times. They put in the 2000s a couple times. That's it. They haven't been in a series together in 16 years. Boston and Philly, every decade have battled in some sort of way. They've had some sort of playoff series. When we did Celtic City,

which maybe we have to do a 10th episode now called Celtic City, the team is falling apart. We did a whole episode built around the 80s. Celtics Philly, Dr. J. versus Bird, all that stuff

“back and forth. I can't even remember that many times CR when they've even made trades.”

I remember we got Dana Barros from Philly as a free agent, but for the most part, like this is certainly the biggest transaction ever between the two franchises. I know that and we like there's obviously the Horford signing, but this is the last time I remember anything like this was getting Jim O'Brien to coach. It's go back to like these weird moments in history because for the most part, the two cities and the two teams pretty much are like this is shut off.

It was funny. Other friends, because of the world cup, I've been in touch with a bunch of my buddies in England and they're like, can you explain this to me and primarily terms that

I was like this would basically be like Liverpool signing Marcus Rashford if he was coming off

of a career year. It's really complicated and for the sixers, they've been star shopping since the Jimmy Butler deal, since they decided to break away from like the draft and develop model to like, collate some of those prospects and get get a star for a beat. So we've Butler, Horford, Harden, would have you then Paul George. Well, this is and Paul George,

“but this is the first time they've done it and I think that the star that the sixers were trying”

to compliment wasn't in beat. It was Maxi. I don't think this is a trade for a beat. I think this is a trade for the younger core and you know, I don't even think that Jalen Brown and Joel and Bebe pair that well together. I'm I'm excited to be proven wrong, but like they both like been ranged. They both like having the ball in their hands and kind of surveying the court.

this is a different kind of trade than the sixers have made over the last couple of years. I don't think it's just for and Bebe's purposes. He pairs better with the speed of Maxi and VJ. The and Bebe thing will be weird. All right, you got to clear out again because I'm going to walk you

through my my thoughts this happened. First of all, how many hours has it been? It's been, I don't know,

17. This is the most unpopular trade with Boston fans since moochy bets. That's still thing moochy

“bets. Oh, hold on, it was one second. One way more. Go. Go. Go, no, go ahead. I see our. Why?”

You were saying moochy bets? I think that's my success. A more indefensible trade because there was no reason to do it. They just didn't want to pay them and then they gave away for 10 cents on the dollar. This we could talk about some of the defenses that I've heard. Everybody in my life, not only was there no warning whatsoever, not only was Jalen the centerpiece of a Yanis trade that seemed like it was going to happen a week ago on Monday. But this was, I think the

first Boston trade ever that came out of nowhere, but then had everybody going,

wait, that's the trade. What else is in it? Is there a part two? And there just, there just wasn't. So, you know, you start thinking how does Jalen go for half as much as mid 30s, aspiration, scandal. Why? Right, your head goes there. Why? Why has it made? Why does it want to play off series in five years? Why? With the cookers, one, two play off series in seven years, and miss more games than just about anybody other than NBA, the last

six, right? So, last time we, everyone's talking about, oh, Kawaii, now Toronto, this is the piece that can put you away. Kawaii lost the fucking first playing in game last year to the words, the game I went to. This was like the 2019 Kawaii out of, I just don't think is there anymore. Anyway, so he goes for half as much as him. He goes for less than Desmond Bane. He goes for less Jaren Jackson. He goes for less than Kevin Durant did last year when Phoenix needed to trade

him, they got the 10th pick and two movable contracts just note that his voice broke on Durant. They're just if we're keeping score at home. He went for way less than Janis. And then, during the same day went for less than Kessler. Five minutes last year, but for less than Kessler. All right, so we have that. We have, I had Michael Rubin had his white party yesterday in the Hamthons. I know you're invited to see Ari at the RSVP now. I think it was

at Lakers Training Camp, actually. That was the other way party. So apparently, one of the fili owners was there and I'm not going to say who I'm going to take this shit off. Yeah, take that red sucks out of. So one of the fili owners was there and people were like, what's up with this

Jalen trade and he was just like, we couldn't believe it either. Like, basically saying we can't

believe we were able to get Jalen Brown for what we gave up. Kurt, I'll start here just on the trade itself, which is a 2021 first that seems pretty good. It's at least the Quippers pick. It might even be like a 1 through 8 fili pick. All right, 1 through 8 protected fili pick. But what would it have cost fili just to dump the last two years of Paul George's contract? It's somewhere between

“one first and two, correct? Yeah, it's funny you should ask. They were, they were trying to do just”

that. I think before Darrell left, they were trying to do that and the answer from what I heard was one solid first, the better first they have, I think that wasn't included in this deal. So that's a team like Chicago or Brooklyn, a team that had cap space and he's called Paul George from us will give you these picks to take him. It's a huge plot point here because if once you start to do that sort of connective math, you're starting to say, okay, the six is one at out of the

Paul George business, Paul George prison or whatever you want to call it. And they were willing to attach a pick. So they were going to do this for whatever you could get back, right? They were going to do this and to get a finals MVP, a guy who got real MVP votes this season for essentially that package, it really contextualized it. And I love what you did too because I was doing the same comparative math with the Kestler transaction and the Desmond Bain transaction. You're like,

“what is going on? What is going on with Jalen Valley, Jalen Brown's value around the league?”

Because it doesn't stand up to any, anyway, I would have evaluated his value. I was shocked at the market value, had dropped this low, but you're exactly right to call out the six is wanted to get off Paul George in the first place. I see, I'm sure you were intrigued by the thought of getting rid of Paul George regardless of who came back. I got no hate in my heart for him. I was incredibly disappointed by the suspension last year and not out of any moral thing. It's just like, that was

when he got suspended and to have that happen, which is sort of an elective absence on his part,

even though we never really got the full story about it, on top of like all of the load management

that either the team and or he were doing for his various injuries, it was just kind of like I'm tired of watching teams that are like, we're going to just try and make sure everybody's healthy for that second round series that we have. And it's like, oh, actually, you know what, just just give me a good good NBA season. How about how about that? And well, you're going to get it from Jalen Brown. He's going to play a set of games a year and he's going to play 35 minutes a game and

he's going to show up night after night and he's going to be a guy that when in beads not there can be 20 shots for you and play 38 minutes and play bigger or smaller.

So yeah, I have like, here's my main question I want to ask you guys,

there's a new GM and Philly like, Gansy. Yeah. There's a well, he's president because Jamira Nelson is the GM and then there's a new owner in Boston and those differing sensibilities,

“I think, are worth bringing up. I was kind of joking when they put a camera on me and asked me”

what I thought of this yesterday and I was like, this does not feel like Brad Stevens made this call, but I also saw Windwurst yesterday was like, this is a trade made under Dores. And I just don't understand this. There's no reason why this have to happen on a Wednesday. There's no reason why this had to be the deal. I know that there had been reporting that the Celtics were not getting a lot of what they wanted out of the trade market for Brown, but is there no, you were talking about going to

Skondo's 48 hours ago? I wasn't going to go. I wanted my dad to go as a representative of the Simmons family. I just thought once the honest thing happens and it gets out and then they don't

get you honest because they didn't want to put in extra stuff other than Jalen and two first,

which I wholeheartedly agreed with. And then they came as the league. There's no trade.

“The third year I think really hurts with Jalen because it's like 63 million or something and they were”

obviously terrified of it. And I think there's two ways to look at this because I still have a whole, I want to go through my whole, my stages of process in this trade, but there's two ways to look at it. One is the analytic stuff, which I want to talk about later. We can talk about that after the break. And the other is that they feel like this relationship was unsavigable. I'm just going to get worse. And okay, so why is that the case? Well, you have the 2004, 2004, the finals of the piece and

conference. If they just split those, I wonder if this trade even happens. The fact that Jalen wins both, that's a little weird. The Tatum Brown thing starts to get a little strange. Tatum gets hurt a year later. The time it, that's a complete fluke, right? Jalen takes over the team. I've talked about it on the pot a bunch of times where he has the car keys and had an awesome season that I've been watching advanced metrics pick at a part, which is fine. I still feel like wins is the most

important advanced metric and he showed up night after night and went against everybody else's best guy and was great. And to me, to fact that they were so desperate to trade him and by all counts last 72 hours, they seemed like they were desperate. Like we got a, we got this has to come no head right now. I don't feel like they could put the Genie back in the bottle with him was to take that we have now opened this door where this guy thinks he's the guy. He's going to come back.

We have Hugo, we have Shireman. We have more mature shots. We don't want to be in a situation where this guy thinks he can average 29 points a game again. We have Tatum who can replace a lot of

“his stuff and this is going to get worse, not better. That's the only thing I can think of for the”

logic of this trick because everybody's been asking me the last 17, 18 hours. It's not like they had to do this now. They could have waited till the season. They could have waited till February. Whatever happens since the season ended seems to have given them this additional urgency. And it's maybe some of the things he said, both publicly and privately, the fact that it wasn't a one A1B thing anymore. I think Jaylin probably felt maybe rightly so after last year on equals

with Tatum and they just wanted to get out of this situation. Was my take. Does that make sense as that take CR? It makes sense. I like the timeline you built there because another element of it would be Tatum coming back, which was supposed to be this heroic act of selflessness and all that. And it almost seems like it just kind of threw everything out of balance. And I wonder if Tatum just says, "I am out this year. I'm going to rehab." And the Celtics have a kind of nobody believes

or whoever they lose to. Does this even happen? Is Jaylin Brown like, "Well, and next year, we get Tatum back and we're going to be in great shape." The thing that I also go back to is Brad Stevens is post-seasoning press conference where he was like, "We are not going to be playing this way next year." And he's seeing way lower on the team than the NBA community at large.

“Where everybody I think was like, "Pretty cool. You guys really, you competed." And he was like,”

"This, I did not like this." And I guess I know who he was talking about or what he was talking about because he was probably apparently more out on the two Jay's than anybody else. And especially everybody else in Boston. And it's a bet on Jaylin too that we can go into with the team. We'll look like next year. But it's a bet that Jaylin can replace all the, I'd say Jason. Tatum can replace all the Jaylin stats in the production and being the number on guy. And then the team around him

will fit better than Jaylin Brown being told. Go over here now. You're not the number on guy anymore. Kirk, you remember, so I've talked about this before on my pod. When I was the first year I was doing countdown when Rudy Gay got traded to Memphis. And it became a very important like Sloan Conference moment. It became this specific tipping point in the old way we talked about basketball versus the new way. And I was on that show arguing with Magic Johnson who knows more

about basketball than me. And has had way more NBA experiences than me. And Will Bond, Jaylin was kind of neutral. And I was arguing, I actually think this trade makes a lot of sense for Rudy Gay. I think he's overrated. Memphis, I think turned him in a Tashon Prince. And I forgot how else was in it. But the team took off and they didn't make it in the conference finals because they determined whatever even though Rudy Gay seems good on paper. And I remember Magic saying at

one point where we're arguing about it, you need a guy, you need a closer, you need and, and I was trying to be respectful. But I was like, the stats say he's not that good. All the advance metrics say he's actually not a closer that you're actually if he's your guy finishing games. This is

“in great. And that's why they did the deal. So that was this tipping point for that era.”

Now we're in this different era where even though I voted Jaylin fifth for MVP, I voted

him first team on NBA. I thought what he did last year was incredible. There are all these like

deep analytics now saying like, no, actually wasn't that good. So as somebody who's in the forefront of the Sloan Conference Revolution, where do you stand on the analytics here? It's a great question. So the tension is Jaylin Brown now represents this tension. He's going to be the person who gets associated with this. Is this guy, we have him in the ringer 100 bill, is number 14 in the NBA after the season. Estimated plus minus over at Dunkson 3 is one of the best sort of

nerdy sites going right now has him at 87th in the NBA. Okay, according to estimated plus minus. So this is don't shoot the messenger here. That's the tension. All these teams have these models. How impactful is this guy for winning? They measure all sorts of variables from player tracking things. We didn't have 15 years ago during that Rudy Gayera. But ultimately, these models hate Jaylin Brown as a factor on winning. You can look at just basic on off stuff, the Celtic's had

a net rating of 6.5 with him on the floor and that goes to 10.5 when he came out. And the models just start stewing on these facts. But with those models, how much does that depend on? Did you have a really good bench? Well, you know what I mean? If your pitch comes in and it's clean in the

clock of the other teams bench, then the on-off stuff's going to get skewed, which I would always

use as my defense for Jaylin Abosta. And I want to come back to that bill because I do think the real reason here is depth and team building in the second apron era. And I think Brad Steevenc's

“Chris is pointing out he wants a 110 pole organization with one giant salary not to because you need to”

have the next verse finals. Those are deep ass teams with dudes who are playing seven, eight, nine, like Jose Alvarado. You need to have that kind of money. And if you have two guys making 35 percent of your cap in the second apron era, forget it's Jaylin Brown or Jason Tatum. That's just the hard math problem for anybody to solve. And I think that's really at the heart of this thing. I don't think it's about vans plus minus or anything. It's like, do we really want to have

two dudes in their 30s combining to make 70 percent of our cap and go out and try to make the thunder

and spurs? Yeah, on top of that, two of the top nine contracts in the league just for figure by year. Yeah. The next three. And maybe I don't know. Maybe they thought that was unsustainable. But then the counter that is, Paul George makes as much money. That's what that's the head scratcher. That's the part that doesn't make sense to me. It's like, I get the financial thing that year. Yeah,

analytics stuff. And it's weird, because I've always been, I think, even dating back to the

“grandland days. I think we were at, you know, we were part of the forefront of everything that”

was changing there. And I still believe in the numbers a lot of the time. But I still feel like there's something about durability. And somebody who shows up night after night and could be the best guy in a team over and over and over and accept that challenge. The issue is, you want it to be a title two years ago. And they want it by a time like two years ago. I don't know what are we playing for it, right? Like I, I, look, I'm also somebody who's my favorite basketball player ever

is Alan Iverson, who's also not beloved by the events analytics community. I cannot claim to really

understand a lot of the stuff out at certain point. I think that this is also as much as it's

an analytics story. It's a media story to me. The turning point in some ways in the story publicly. I'm sure privately was much different. Was this Bobby Marx tweet that went out about an analytics guy, unnamed analytics guy telling him that Jalen Brown would be like the seventh best player on our team, not like on a in the league. And that really got the ball rolling in terms of this to be coming to the forefront again. This is all going to kind of die down, you know,

once once all the on all the smoke clears. But this has just been a fascinating couple of weeks in the NBA where the outside reporting is so speculative, but then like there are pieces of it that feel incredibly well informed. And so going back to Jalen doing live streams and saying like this was my favorite year of my career, which also had a lot of context. He also says a lot of other stuff, you know, that we don't need to get into. But there's like these little nuggets that

then get taken and run with. And the idea that this guy went from a pillar of the franchise to a we need to get him out of here with no deadline contractually league wide, whatever. We just have to get him out the door even if it's to arrival in the division. And we're going to have to see this

“dude multiple times a year. It really speaks to like, I think the tension behind the scenes,”

but it's it's so fascinating because I want to know how much the speculation around it actually wound up fueling the fire. I have some some thoughts and maybe a couple answers on that, but we have to take a break and we're going to come back and I'm going to talk about my stages of grief with the Jalen Browtrade right after this. This episode is brought to you by Mikkelob Ultra. We're in the heart of the World Cup. Look at these little special bottles for Mikkelob Ultra. Every play matters here.

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the Boston Red Sox in July traded no Margarcia Pera, who was the most popular guy in my other than Pedro. Now hold on. They traded them for Orlando Cabrera. And they asked to got Doug Bencavich in that who ended up clinching the ball when they won the World Series a few months later. And this was an incredibly polarizing trade. And I wrote a piece for ESPN.com actually kind of defending the trade because they had tried to trade no Mar, the previous winter

in the A-Rot thing. It fell apart. He had to come back and it was weird for half the season. There was some advanced stuff with him that he was slipping defensively, that he was starting to hurt the team a little bit, that he wasn't the guy that he was a couple years before. And they trade Cabrera for him who was an excellent defensive player and just kind of fit the team better. Everyone in Boston lost their fucking mind. And then it turned out to be a great trade.

“And Cabrera was one of the many heroes, no four. If you're a Boston fan, that's the only thing”

you're going to talk about, Orlando Cabrera to yourself. You're just like, "Ah, maybe this is like the Cabrera trade. I'll give you the stages of three years." It's like what the end of the Irishman is like, "Oh, man, the Cabrera!" But it is. So, I hear about this trade, the anesthesia wears off,

a guy down for a half hour, including one of the great free kicks of my lifetime. Did you think he was

“making it here? I did not think he was too close. The goalie did give him a wide side of the”

game a little bit of space, but yeah, I mean that in the record. I do have the free kicks when it's over on the left, because I feel like you can really blast it. I hate putting so much, yeah, that was

incredible. Anyway, I was trying to focus on the game, and I'm in three hours of darkness.

Some things I wrote down, because I wanted to write down my anesthesia thoughts in real time. New owner chipped out, Brad Paineck, Tatum demanded the deal. We're self-extrait, ever. Have it felt this helpless since they traded for Ben Baker. Those were five things I wrote down during the World Cup game. By the fourth hour, after the game, a little more uplifting, after we went to nothing, even though we lost our best player and our team to a bogus red card,

I wrote down, take last year's team and replace Brown for Tatum, Garsa for Mitch, because they got Mitchell Robinson yesterday. In diamonds for Paul George, wait, are we better or worse? Starting to get signs of hope. And then I wrote down, didn't PG play as effectively as Tatum and Brown in the round one series. Looked up his stats, 17 points again, 55% from three. He at least like was a draw with Brown. And then after five

hours, and I had some text, I'm trying to get faith. I landed on this has to be part one of a second

“part of a deal. And I think that's where I landed, and I really wonder if the Tray Murphy piece”

is going to be the second piece of this, because I don't think New Orleans wanted, I don't think they wanted Jalen Brown three more years in him. And I wonder if George, one year less with picks, and you get Murphy and you get Jordan Poole's expiring back, and that's the end game here. And now that makes sense to me, Kirk Goldsburg. Does it make sense to you? I had a similar sort of come around this morning. I could feel my face again after I woke up,

and I was like, okay, Celtics, 156 games is that right, Bill last year with his team. So assuming Tatum slides into the Jalen Brown slot. And I was like, okay, this is a 51 team, right? But I had a similar sort of coming around to it. I'm not sure there is a second move, but that's a great theory. I do think what I said earlier, they value flexibility. The NBA did this to all the teams

with this hard cap, second apron situation. Depth has never been more important. The only way to

find depth is in the draft with cost-controlled guys. And overpaying dudes in their 30s is the fastest way to erase depth. And there's no shortage of teams that can say that right now. So I think ultimately, yeah, the Paul George thing of it all is still the weirdest piece. Like, okay, all that's true, Kirk, but they brought back a 36 year old girl, a 36 year old guy with bad legs. And that disappeared for 25 games last year because he gets suspended. So I love your theory if they can now turn that

into true Murphy somehow and get Jordan Pools. So it was PG available to get traded immediately,

“or do you have to wait? Well, here's the thing, the trade doesn't get announced, so I think January”

6. So you have a few days here. July 6. July 6. I'm sorry, July 6. So you have a few days here to, you know, you can make it a 3 team or a 4 team or whatever. Now, if they do something resembling the trade, I just mentioned, maybe they won't. Now you're replacing Brown with Tatum, Garza with Mitch and Simon's with Murphy. And then you have your younger guys or your older and some more printed stuff. And that starts to make sense. If that doesn't happen, and this is just

the trade, and you're going to get a year out of Paul George, and then he's a big expiring next year with picks, and you're going to make a movie here from now. There is a world where they tell Paul George like you're going to play 49 games this year. And when you play, you'll play like 22, 23 minutes. We're saving you for the playoffs. We're going to play these younger guys. We want to keep you fresh for the playoffs. We want you to have one round two rounds, three rounds, whatever,

where you'll play bigger minutes. But on paper, whatever Paul George is, whatever we saw, this is, this is, this is where I sound like I'm just trying to say, I'm not. I'm just saying, I'm paper. So the way you're justifying is that if there is a hypothetical second move to be made, that isn't like we're waiting for Yokech, or we're waiting for DeBance and flag to come up, right? No, it's more like you're using Paul George to get somebody's money back,

but ultimately flexibility, which I've been saying in this podcast since the season ended,

never really like the honest thing, because I thought I put them in the same position they were

in before with these two giant contracts. But with the Paul George piece, and you're looking at and you're like, all right, maybe we get a year out of him. Bless minutes, he's a more cop of memory player than Jayland, our chemistry is better. We can find out what we have with you with Hugo and Sharman, more Richard, and we'll patch us together because we did this last year, and by the way, maybe there are also saying Jayland wasn't as responsible for last year as he

got the credit for. But this was a system thing. It was depth. It was night after night being able to have 10 guys who were confident with the three-point shooting. It was the defense. And that's the only thing I can think of. If that trade doesn't happen, and PG just comes back, I still think that

“I think the thing they're risking here is the fans in the city. Oh, that's right. Your Paul George”

not, I would say he's been a slightly divisive guy over the years. You're risking Jayland going to Philly and Philly being really good right away. You're risking all of the Celtics whatever the team they have now, not playing as well as they thought they were initially. And you're you're taking a last year or a feel good thing where everybody liked everybody. And I'm like, wow, this is great. I love this team. I love Joe Masua. I love Brad Stevens. There's Chisim.

Now, if this doesn't work out right away, you're talking about Chisim walking to his seats before the game. And somebody be like, yo, chisim, fuck yo. Steven's going into the thing. Hey, Steven's fucking traded Jayland, fuck you. Like, this changes the energy. So they better be right on this CR because you've seen this in Philly. Yes. When the energy shifts in the Colt weather

“cities, specifically Boston Philly, do you or a kid get dangerous? Yeah. And I think that the things”

that seem to matter to front offices sometimes are just so far apart from what that are to fan bases. Fan bases like establishing relationships with guys. They like seeing guys grow up. They like acquired new stars. They like developing kind of like a rhythm with team or rhythm with the way the team plays. Now, that can get stale and you can you can find yourself as a Philly fan and be like, I like these guys, but I haven't watched in this TV show for 10 years now or whatever. But I think that the

danger is flexibility over fandom and flexibility over who we're putting on a billboard if we're trying to build a new stadium. Like you guys sound like you are. And I think that that's a real real dice roll for the more, you know, like for as much as you're like this could work out if it's tremor fee. And there's there's a couple of ways in which this could not work out. You know, that this could go very more than a couple. And including Jason Tatum with coming off in a kill

is injury with like all Georgia 36, Mitch Robinson who has a big injury history and that they have all these injury variables. Yeah, a couple of those guys that you bring up on every podcast like who I still don't really remember watching play like you know, I just mean I I don't have a lot of like Hugo tape in my head. You know, uh, didn't show up against the six. Like we're not like fighting for prime time. So like they are really nice regular season pieces and they're really nice

development stories. But I don't necessarily think they're going to win a second round series for you

guys. So look, I haven't been out in the second round since 2001. So what am I talking about? I'm just saying that like there is an element to um, if you're counting on like another deal making this right or this all kind of cool. Lesson in a way that we just don't understand yet. There's also like a negative side of it. There's a bad side of it. I would say there's a few bad signs. The coalescing the betting on guys with injury history's curve. The same reaction to this trade, which is

the single most negative fan reaction. Even mooky bets we knew that was coming for like a year.

“This was I think way more contentious. Um, I'm sure Brian Curtis copyright the uh,”

now they tell us story. I'm dreading the now they tell us for this. The Celtics don't usually operate that way. They're not they're not a big leaking after the fact organization. But the big

question that they would never answer, that if I had a Brad Stevens true serum where I'm like you

have to answer, I'm gonna give you this, I'm gonna give you a call and ask me an anesthesia. I'm gonna tell you this. This sounds like they're beginning of an erotic film. You're giving for a Stevens a call by Adrian Lyme. From hell, my friend. From hell, from hell, this back. A disgruntled fan wants answers. The question I want to know is were you thinking of doing this right after the season or did this evolve during the off season? Because my guess my thought

pushed them to a place that they decided maybe this was untenable Kirk. Now you've worked for a

“team. You're always judging the, the you're judging the chemistry of the team. You're judging the”

best guys in the team, the happiness of the team. Like the spurs got Lemarkus, all drugs when you were there. One of the reasons they got Lemarkus all drugs was because it was pretty clear in that last Portland year, he wasn't 100% happy that there was, Dame was becoming embraced. Even though that Portland team was really good, it's what occurred when Azac was favorite teams. Something was off and then the spurs ended up getting him. So how much, how much to organizations just think about

the non basketball personality shit? Yeah, that's the, I kept going to, I don't think people understand like the human element. When you trade a guy, it doesn't just affect that guy and his family. It affects all the the spouses and the kids and like now everybody's looking over their shoulder. So I know that RC and Pop were like very, very careful with the trade tool itself. Like we don't want to blow up the morale. We want to build an element of trust around here. And again, they had

the benefit of a different CBA era. Where flexibility was was king and they had players who were taking less money, much like Jalen Brunson, which is enabled the next to find depth this time around.

“But I think you're right. I think there is a human story here where Jalen Brown had an awkward”

last few months. I bet there were tensions behind the scene and that's one of the only ways I can explain a relatively great front office, making what I considered to be a bad deal to get away from Jalen Brown is that there must have been very bad behind the scenes, some real tension that

we may never learn about. If the enchant of season is not going to write it these days, I don't know

who will. But like who is why did this happen from a human perspective? Because the numbers just don't add up. Like you can do the double ledger here and it's just like it screams like you started the podcast with. The Boston Celtics just dumped this dude who won finals every P2 years ago. Who was a Valorant dump to a division to a two their historic rivals, Bill says one of the greatest rivals the leaks ever seen. Well the thing, I always judge these trades by two things.

A year later would you be glad or unhappy that you did it. That's one. And then four months later with the trade still be there. I'm guessing if this trade doesn't happen today, CR, but we get to the beginning of October and Boston calls and said, hey, Jalen Brown for Paul George and two picks, you're still saying yes. So why would you do a trade? Why would you do a trade that's going to be there in October now? Is the best case for Dave felt like this situation

had gotten untenable behind the scenes? And who knows if if Tatum who's been, you know, and I've

heard both sides of this. He hasn't said anything. He never went on the Jalen, this is a big thing

in the local radio. He never went on Jalen's twitch. Like, it is true. He never said anything. Now the counter would be, well if he does say something then that becomes a story. So he's got to lay back. Does he say a lot about anything? I mean, I don't really think of Jason Tatum as the most demonstrative star. Like, you know, he does a lot of like, here's my documentary about my, yeah, my rehabilitation from my injury. But there's not like, uh, it's a lot of carefully crafted

docu-series. Yeah, I'm going on an IG to to pretend to woke up. I mean, it's just, uh, I don't I, this kind of stuff is like, what we have replaced reporting with is like looking at, at like tea leaves and trying to be like, yeah, I heard you guys told me, right, somebody told me in front of

“them on and, you know, I, like, that's for better and for worse, but I think that the only my only”

counter to this, um, would be I don't. Now in retrospect, don't think Mike Gansy would have waited. Uh, I think this, the six or six team was going to get changed. I didn't actually anticipate that. I thought that they were going to run it back and that it was going to be like, this is about cleaning up whatever Daryl did and we're going to do some depth stuff and we'll, we'll, we'll draft well and we'll, we'll figure out where we're at and hopefully edge comb develops and we'll be like a

five seed or something like that and then be let's just cross our fingers. But now in retrospect, I'm like, oh, this guy wanted to change the, the face of the team. This guy wanted to, to strip the paint and make it, make it into his own thing. And, um, I mean, it's speaking of reading tea leaves, his brother posted a picture yesterday of Gansy, uh, with LeBron and, uh, you know, in the same

also reported that the six are acquired about LeBron and if that's the game he wants to play, like, Bellia, sure, you know, there are people who have had the joy of cheering for LeBron, I'll take it.

“But yeah, it's, I don't think the sixers, we're going to sit around waiting for Jalen Brown. I think this”

was an opportunistic trade. I don't think Paul George was going anywhere else. We should mention was and House and I do the worst contract draft in the beginning of every shirt mentioned this.

And bead was one and Paul George was two and it was, it wasn't even like, it was basically one of

those, the draft starts at three because we know these are the top two. Now, when we did this, Paul George was, uh, was under suspension, didn't know if he was going to come back. It, the filly thing could not have gone worse. And he had two and a half years left on the deal. Now he has two, but, um, I thought he was really good in the playoffs. I said it over and over again. I thought I, I was shocked by how well he played, uh, I thought he really bothered Jalen. I'm

ironically, and there was a lot of clips about this last night of all these different times. He locked down Jalen 101. Three point shooting was great. Even in the next series, that's weren't that bad. Um, so that was, I thought the best he's looked in a couple years, but if it's Paul George, I thought it was on the show to just send you guys at one. I can't remember what the six or streak was or what we were definitely surging and Paul George got suspended. Boston would implode.

Like, talk about it. It would be need, they would have an FCC violation.

Mm-hmm. I want to talk about the filly piece in one second. This is my last thing on, on Boston,

“because I think we covered everything there is to cover from the Boston side. But the Jalen thing”

I've just being with somebody for 10 years. Ironically, 10 years ago was when they drafted him. What they had with him and tated them together, which led to a title six conference finals. And I was pretty steadfast all the way through even with the honest thing. I was like, I think this guy's really good at basketball. Like, I don't really care what that said. I've watched him over and over again. I just think, like, this is the guy that bigger the stage, the bigger the event.

Like, he's going to be there and he's going to show up. Now, people could counter and be like, well, what happened in the filly series last year? He wasn't good. Well, why, why they fall part and three of the last four playoffs. I just wonder if we're ever going to see team state together like this anymore in the NBA with the way they apron is. If it, this feels, everyone's talking about the advanced metrics side. And this is like the end of a certain era.

“To me, it's like the different end of an era. You could see it in the contracts that were handed out.”

1 for 7, 2 for 14, 2 for 19. Kessler got one of the only long deals we had. All of the middle class, slightly upper middle class, slightly lower middle class. All those guys are on one year and two year deals now. Nobody wants to big contracts on the same team anymore. Utah, who really could have used Kessler was like, wow, you're offering us all this great take on. And then you look at the snow time makers now with Reeves making 45 Kessler making 35 and Luca making the

max. It's like, that's your team. Those are going to be your three guys now. So Kirk, I just wonder like you, we mentioned the spurs earlier. If we're running back the spurs now, Parker gets traded in 2010. He's gone. Like they're like shit. We have that. We got to pay that. We got to pay Dunkin. We have to pick between Manu and Parker. Parker just had the off the court thing that happened with, you know, you could Google it. This is the time. Let's move him. We'll get younger. We'll get a

young point card. And guess what doesn't happen? You're not one of the best teams in the league

for the first part of the 2010s. You don't make two straight finals and you don't win the 2014 title.

So I just wonder, is this the league now where we're the NFL? And it's a different champion. And it's by design. I mean, this is the first time in league history who had eight different champions in eight years. Welcome to the parody here. It is the NFL. And it is a direct buy product bill of the new CBA that went into effect in 2023. And one of the things that I don't think is good is we're starting to see like both love and characters being dumped like Clay Thompson. Like

this guy is going to have a statue. He's going to be a warrior hero. But he gets like done. So James, not the first one to go through this, but it's it's boring, but it's it's profound too. It's the instrument insists on giving the biggest payday's in the league to dudes 31 32 35 years old. And then they will become toxic assets. They become toxic assets. We all know Bill went to guys peak at the NBA, 28 29. We watched the finals. It was all young dudes and guys

them there 20's. Yeah, I said in a Yanis piece last week on the ringer that like there were two guys among the 25 most minutes played in these years playoffs that were 32 and older. This is a young man's game. And part because the CBA makes it nearly impossible to build a good team around

Like right, we're reserving our paydays for our guys who are a little long in the tooth.

And building a team around that guy in the second apron era is nearly impossible. And I'm not sure

if that that's good for the long-term health of these fan bases and the morale of these teams. So yeah, go ahead. No, no, finish, finish. I thought it was all embodied by that concept by the viral video. I saw today of a little kid just losing his mind about Jalen Brown leaving the Celtics. He had a Celtic jersey on his balling and Jalen Brown actually responded this kid. And it's just like heartbreaking. It's like you forget about that part of the business, guys. Like it's

my daughter's a brown business. My daughter who has gone who really became a Celtic fan legit like the last few years. And he's going through all the stages now when you become a new sports fan. Like the Janice trade and why are they trading Jalen? I don't understand why did my

M.E. get Janice for all this stuff. I've seen all those guys that are not that good. And then yesterday

she's FaceTime me me. And I'm like fucking out of it. And she's like near tears. And she's like,

“I love Jalen. I'm really mad. I don't understand why they did this. You think you're dead?”

Yeah, I'm like, I'm I just have a whereby. This is the afterlife where we're going to say R. I was just going to say that there's a really interesting narrative history of the last 15 years to be written where Mori comes in and introduces a lot of the advanced analytic concepts to the NBA and changes the way teams are assembled. But especially the Shane Batty trade, right? But it was actually a for Rudy Gay. Yeah. But he is actually in retrospect almost

like, um, he's romantic and compared to the way that NBA teams are run now. Like when he was just like, look, I'm looking at the underlying numbers. And eight out of 10 times we beat the warriors given X, Y, or Z happening. It was almost like this faith that he had. Then you have like this draft capital craze that happens. And that's press D and to some extent the spurs and you see what happened with those guys. And now it's like it's Tim Connelly's NBA. And you're just like, I'm just going to

I'm just going to have constant motion. I am going to wheel and deal and catch out the door and Randall is out to the door and will mellows in. And then if I have to, I'll try and find somebody to take go bare. And then if I have to, I'll do this. And it's just like this sort of churn that's been happening. The sixers have been doing this too where it's like we rent a guy for two years.

“And then we send him out. But it's almost like these contracts now. I think what Gansy did”

was really interesting is like all the sixers deals are pretty much on the same timeline. So even regardless of the ages of the players and beat Maxi and Brown are all up the same year. So even if this doesn't work out, like it's not something he has locked this team into for a decade. You know, it's not like, well, well, now what are you going to do? You've made your bed and you have to lie in it with jam and Brown. It's like, no, this is this is something that was very,

very specific to Brown's deal. I don't know if he's going to be like, if you don't give me an extension, I'm out. Like that's I think that is going to be an interesting question for a lot of these guys where it's like, I have two or three years looked on my deal. But so if you want me to

come to your team, we have to like basically redo it. Well, I forgot to say this earlier. I do

wonder if that's a piece of this Boston side with Brown was eligible for an extension later on the summer. And if they had said no, how would he react? Well, you took care of Tatum. If Tatum was had an extension coming up, you would take care of him. Why not me and they're trying to avoid all that stuff. Well, I'll go further in that because I have information on that, but I forgot to share last week. The youngest to Boston thing was closer than I think people realized. And I still don't

think Hugo was ever in the trade. But I do think it got to the point, the bucks had an arrangement with the honest that he was basically going to approve that they were going to trade him without him basically signing off on it. And he didn't sign off on the Miami trade for a couple days there. And they were talking about extensions with the Celtics. And it came down to it was like two years, 30% of the cap could be the extension or three years, 35. And the Celtics were we're pretty

entrenched at two for 30. And Janus wanted the three for 35. And they couldn't agree on it. And that was when he'd greenlit the Miami trade. And Miami threw in Yacca, shown us. And

“that's what had happened. So you can even think from the Celtics thinking there,”

back to what we've been talking about a while. It's like, can we compete if we have these two giant contracts on our team of guys in their 30s? And they obviously thought no, so they said no. And then they got out of the jailing thing, which they were desperate to do. Obviously, consider in the trade, you mentioned Philly, they have in bead at 57, Jayland at 57 and

our guys. That's all I see. In year three, you're going to have 170 million for three guys. And I think this is, you know, I, I, I, I've obviously had a lot of critiques about silver over the last

couple years. It doesn't always please me to do that because I, I, I like them. And I've had a decent

relationship with them. I think the biggest mistake he's made is hammering this second apron thing. And you know, basically taking advantage of the players. I don't, I think the players over and over again are just outmatched in these negotiations. They're negotiating its billionaires across the board. They're just going to be outmanned. You're not going to know as much about the future as all of these guys who've made all this money doing whatever. What I don't like and what I think

“they should put in is the longer you're with the team. You should get some sort of cap and tax relief”

from it. I've been saying this forever about the Warriors and Curry. Curry's been on that team since

2009. That should matter. He just shouldn't be a blanket. Curry makes 61 million dollars a year.

It should be he makes 61 million. But because he's for every year he's been with the team, you get a percent off on the cap or the tax or whatever. So he's at 20% discount. Because I don't think fans want this. I think it's fun for for us for content to just watch guys ship around and watch the lamella leave Charlotte watch Randall leave Minnesota. John. Yeah. Jayland Brown. Like it's fun to just watch everybody move around.

But I don't think it's I don't think it's good for the league. I don't think I care about the shit like the fact that Bird and McCail played their entire careers together. I just feel like that

“air has gone now. Yeah. I think that you know, if you're looking for one reason to understand”

why Jayland Brown is on the 6th or today, it's the second apron. It's the current CBA. And I don't think this might have happened under the previous regime. And I do think it's worth thinking about that for the long-term health and sort of macroeconomic shaping of the MBA at large. And you know, I wrote about it with with the honest last week because I think that was a huge part of what's going on there. And you just wanted to it with the Boston Miami sort of negotiations

there. Like this is the three-point line was the dominant game-changing artifact of the 2010s. The hardcap second apron is the equivalent in the 2020s. It's changing the game. But it's happening in the front office as opposed to on the court with shots selection. And I think the teams that learn how to use it the most and learn how to navigate it are going to be the most successful. And right now that means bill first round picks are way more valuable than they were

young talent on cost control is a lot more important than it used to be. And like I said earlier, a 33-year-old bit who's not living up to the $70 million we're giving him is the most toxic asset in the MBA potentially in that and you're talking about it with MB. Unless you're Toronto then you're excited and you're full. Yeah, that treats fine. There's nothing else. Yeah, that's another thing. He just had to leave the country. How much did you see? Did you see a quiet the Blue G's game? It was like Michael Corley owned

returning to Sicily. It was just like on the wheel. He was there for eight months. It was like he filmed one movie and was just out. Make it the next one. Look, I remember writing about this in my book in the late 2000s about the 80s teams that we had the Lakers six or Celtics and Pistons. And why those

teams would kind of never happen again because it was so easy to circumvent the cap. Pay guys, keep

guys together. And we all romanticized the decade because we got all these guys to stay on the same teams. And when, you know, Detroit traded Daintly for a Guyer that was like a cataclysmic trait. People were like, oh my God, they traded Daintly. The Lakers in the mid 80s, almost traded

“James worthy for, I think it was worthy for Tarpley and some, and a draft pick or something. And”

backed out at the last minute. But we had, we had moments like that. But there are always about basketball and not the other stuff. And that started a shift over the next 30 years. We saw free agency chain. You talk about these different areas. Free agency changed it in the 90s because once the guys were on the on the shorter contracts, you could see people likes to fund Marbury be like, yeah, I want my own team. And he minutes out at him for three years, they had to trade them.

Go and say that, see what for one year, they had to trade them, right? Then we moved in the 2000s. And it was about these longer deals that really were able to help a team like San Antonio, that could build a round dunk in who is great. But then if you had a bad GM, they destroyed your franchise. Yeah. You were done for half a decade. Yeah. You were done for five years, 2010s, three point shooting changes, everything. And then this decade, it's second apron.

And even like the ran and golden state in 16, I don't think could have happened with the way

we're doing this now. Yeah. I mean, especially if you add at the injuries that we're seeing in the kind of and the wear and tear, it's just doesn't seem like a guy like Tatum who by all accounts takes care of his body as well as anybody in the league, you know, Halle Burton, like these these injuries are destroying franchises for not only the playoffs that they're in, but the year after. I'm trying to, it's, it's a really good point about the way that the league was

“built was by creating these long-term relationships. And now, I think that you've replaced that”

with the dopamine hit of the transactional nature of the NBA, which is like really fun to talk about and really crazy to just be jacked into the matrix all day long, waiting for signs that so-and-so is going here or this plain landed there. But I don't know if it's super good for the league. You know, I don't, I don't know. I mean, like, fandom itself has become a lot more individual. I don't think people are like, I have grown up and decided to dedicate my life to

the Steelers or the Timberwolves or the, but nuggets. Like, I think they're a little bit more like, I like this guy. I like, it's player-centric. Yeah. So I like LeBron. Where's the gun? Oh, is on Denver now? I'm going to review that. I would not be surprised if next season there's just like a ton of buzz about Minnesota just because La Mello has like a real fandom among younger NBA fans, you know, but I don't, I don't, I just don't know if it's like totally great for the long-term, like,

“is the NBA going to exist in 25 years. You know, I don't, I honestly, it goes back to”

everything being financially German, including like the fact that they want to expand, which I think is, I've talked about over and over again, the last thing we need is two more teams. The fact that everybody has a chance, which is how the NFL was able to grow all the value of their teams, right? It didn't matter if you're in Cincinnati, Seattle, New Orleans, everybody had a chance to win the

Super Bowl and you were never bad for more than a couple years. And now we're back in that. I'll

say one more thing about Jalen and then I really want to talk about the Lakers, just because I want to cheer myself up because I thought that it was important. Can I just ask you one more thing before you do your, your, your eulogy for this? So I think the sixers are better than they were yesterday morning and I think the sixers are in a position where if this goes well and if NBA

“gives you, yeah, if he's on the Paul George 45 games, be healthy for the playoffs, I think this team is”

way better situated to function during the regular season with a really special violin comes through. Yep. If you have a bed. And Dean Wade is not a bad pick-up, like that's like there's a, Dean, there's a starting line up that the sixers have that I think is among the best in these to conference right now. Well, you know what else you did say? You'd turn Paul George into Jalen bread. That was, I keep forgetting that. I keep it out. I just really locked in on Belgium, you know?

Like you had Paul George. And that's it. I'm doing it right now. You have Jalen, Brad. You know what Jalen's got a lot of good ideas. I'm really open to them. Well, one of the things, so I had the obviously filleted greatness, but one of the things that I really like about the team, as you know, I'm a durability guy, VJ, Maxi, Jalen, Brad. Those guys fucking play. Yeah, you know what I mean? That's a playability minute. It's a game. Nick Nurse,

because you like playing guys 40 right. But you, you basically, you've turned them beat into the, like,

the proverbial all-time luxury. Be plays awesome. If it doesn't play, yeah, I think you're okay. I think you can patch together rebounds and room protections and be, you know, not a catastrophe, but you're gonna have these three guys that after night, who are gonna be playing in combined 105 minutes. And, you know, VJ is gonna be way better next year. That was the first thing the Celtics asked for was VJ in Paul George and six years ago, like, no thanks. Yeah, I probably keep VJ

below up 95th and do that. Right. I mean, really what you want. And this is why the Celtics Valley, who go so much is having these perimeter guys who are two egg guys on cheap deals is the single best lecture you can have right now. I think the six years are going to be good. It's interesting with the the Celtics title ads were six to one. Really for the entire off season, they're now 13 to one. They are for 50 plus wins on Fandel. Do you think they are

a minus or a plus on that bet? You're better in the Celtics to win 50 plus games. I'm gonna say a plus, but I'd be tempted. I think the bones are so good, Bill. You're going to tell me the price. If it's a plus, I'm in. -135. So, and conversely, the Lakers are plus 200 to win 50 plus games.

The thing with the Celtics, I think they're still going to be good next year. Unless the city is so mad and so focused on how much they hated this trade that it gets a little

“black cloud over it. So, I think one of the reasons that did this trade was a cool what happened in 2019.”

When it was like, I'm paper, look at this team. Hey, we're back. We've taken them in brown and

Kyrie and Alhorford, and we're going to be awesome in the egos and all that stuff never. And I think

that was part of the fear and why what leads to this trade. But I also think that could happen this year because of the energy of the trade and people would just be mad. If Philly starts out going like 18 and three, and the Celtics are like 99 and Tatum's having leg issues. And, you know, there's a couple different scenarios here where like, oh my God. -So, complicated thing for Steven's to sell to his families because to make it sound like he's really excited about this trade,

he's going to have to sort of denigrate brown on the way out. You know what you mean? Like, I think we would go like better. I mean, I, I, it's a very, very, very delicate dance here. Yeah. Um, all right. Jalen Brown quickly, 2024 champion. Yes. Indiana series made the shot in the corner, which was one of the great Celtic shots of this

“century. He was awesome in the Dallas series defending Luca going to a his game three. I think he has”

30 in game three. They're up to nothing in the series. And both of them together really took it. And that was like the platonic idea of the jays together. And you want to see what they wanted. Those two guys in that Dallas game is part of the perfect part. I'm, I'm God, you brought it up. I was just going to add like on a team with Derek, and Drew freaking holiday. Who did you look? Yeah. Who did you look? You used to guard Luca Donchich in that series. Jalen Brown. And that's

why he won finals MVP, you know, he had a slightly more efficient shooting series than Jason Tatum. But it was the defense Billy called out. He is a, he is a serious defender and was more than capable in that series against Luca Donchich. And if he, if Tatum wins finals MVP, I think all of this is a lot easier afterwards. Jalen gets the ECF Tatum wins the finals MVP, which I think he should have

“said it at the time. I don't, I don't understand why he didn't win it. But I think the problems probably”

start there. Anyway, Jalen was amazing for the city. He showed up all the time, never, whatever,

if you ever got weird off the court, never saw it on the court. I thought he was reliable. There was frustrated things about him, which, you get frustrated by everybody when you watch the play basketball for 10 years, right? But I, I just thought he was an awesome solo. You said he was an incredible guy in the community too. It really was. And honestly, that was the same thing for Mookie too. Like, you don't get a lot of these. The people that can bridge all kinds of generations and all kinds

of different things that really seem to care about giving back and he was one of those guys too. CR, you want to stay for a quick lake or sit? Sure. Okay. They gave tests or four years, one 30 after giving up first in 231 in 233 and swaps in 2830. They signed Grimes and Mama for four for 64 for 52. They let Konargo and 16 for two for 19. A guy that Charlotte, which was like a nine seed, was like Kobe White's a major upgrade for us. They have Kessler,

Mama, Luca, Reeves and sextant. I think as the starting line up in eight and Grimes, Vandy and LaRevia coming up the bench in Brani. I want to throw him in there for fun. I'm just dumbfounded, Kirk. Yeah. I, you're locked into this team now that I don't think has any chance to beat not only San Antonio, not only okay, see, but probably not Utah, probably not Minnesota. Even if Luca's averaging 35 again, I just don't see how this is defensively a team that

could hold up multiple playoff rounds. I just don't get it. So explain it to me. Kirk had so much trouble explaining it that his, his computer froze. You go CR and we'll go back to Kirk. This team fills a lot like the 24 remarks and it fills a good team that was built by Luca for Luca, based on what he wants to play with. Secondary ball handler and Reeves, a big guy protects the rim and I guess can flush it although I haven't seen a lot of Kessler over the years. I know he's

always a really good room protector, but it's just a strange thing when all the word coming out of

the lakeers was Mark Walters is here. We're going to have the front office from the future and Polinka's still there and he's making deals basically based on what his star wants, right?

into the sign and extension, right? Obviously he's signing off on all these moves.

“This is what he wants. He wants a defensive rim protector.”

Guy is around the rim and wants shooters around him. The part I don't get is the lack of a defensive anybody. I still don't know who's is Quinn. You watch Crane Grimes for a couple years. He's such your luck. He's a cool player. Yeah. Who's guarding SGA on your team? Right. Who's guarding Anthony Edwards? What do you do when you play Anthony Edwards on the mellow together? Who's guarding Jabal Murray? I just have, oh, Kirk's back. I just have a slow question. See our what we were talking

about the holes that this Laker team has, Kirk's. And it like, it feels like a team Luca built for Luca's purposes. Yeah. For Luca to get awesome stats. Yeah. I don't like this team at all. As a guy, Elaine Spurs, heavy, nothing's making me shake in my boots here. We talked about ownership earlier. There was talk bill like when Mark Walter and the Guggenheim Bros bought

this team for $10 billion from the bus family. They were going to turn in the Dodgers of the NBA

and be the smartest, most aggressive team in the league. This doesn't feel like that to me. They have spent a lot of money on Austin Reeves on Maumu and now on Quentin Grimes. But yeah, like I said, this is a franchise that expects to win NBA championships. I don't see this roster competing for championships against a Thunder team that's going to be pissed off a Spurs team that's going to be better and then all the teams in the East that seem to be getting good. I wonder whether

or not the long-term play here for the Lakers is to swoop in on a disgruntled Boston president and make him the front office. Brad Stevens. Wow. After Chism made him trade his beloved Jalen Brown for Ed Stevens puts himself up for, for front office for agency and joins Lakers. I really doubt Chism made them do anything if anything. No, no. I'm saying like if anything,

“I think he's probably guilty of maybe should have thrown his body in front of the trade versus”

telling them they had to do something. The bigger question for me. Kessler four years, 130, played five games last year. I like him. He's a rebound and botch. There's good advanced metrics. Should any center with the current set up we have other than WMBB making more than like

29 million a year? Is it defensible? If the Celtics are paying 20 million total for

Mitchell Roberts and Garza and Keda. Right. Keda has some extension coming next year. But it just feels really easy to get bodies even hook 40 on the next. Like, did you get him CR? We did. I don't mind him for 50 minutes again. I think there's a lot of those guys and is the difference between somebody like that or, you know, the Lakers are paying 41 million dollars for eight and for Kessler next year. How is that a winning formula? Counterpoint as a spurs guy,

watching the Luke Kornet minutes in the last two or three rounds of the playoffs. We were holding on for dear life. Right. Luke is a good player like no disrespect to Luke Kornet. But yeah, like if you have a really good solid backup, like the ability of Oklahoma City to have hard scene

“and/or chat out there. I think it is very valuable. Obviously there's a guy in Denver that's”

worth a ton of money who plays the center position. But yeah, I like some of these dudes, but Kessler is kind of yoga. I don't even know what position he is. I guess he should count in that one big thing. But yeah, you could tell me he's any position. But Kessler, this is a massive overpay. Let's not lose sight of that. This is almost like a Rudy Gobert deal. But Rudy was like a multiple defensive player of the year. Right. And he is impactful. If you have Rudy Gobert

in his age 31, you're going to be a top five, top 10 defense automatically. And that's been the side of the court. The Lakers have been trying to build for years. But you said it in passing your durability guy. The biggest question with Walker Kessler is he can play one of them five games as he can play 20 games. He's been struggling with the same shoulder thing since college. So it's a huge risk on a player that hasn't sort of demonstrated that durability let alone. The competence

to be a dominant center in the Western Conference bill. Yeah. And you could see like Portland, I was really surprised they didn't want to make Kling in the best guy in a Jailum Brown trade. You know, it's different than the Hugo situation where Hugo was being treated as a throwing in that trade. I value a Kling in as the main piece to get Jailum Brown, probably as an holding me back. But I don't know. See, our maybe teams are looking at this as like if Kessler is

going to make four for 130 and Kling can do a Kessler impersonation for 9 million a year. Maybe that's

one of the best assets you can have. I also think I wonder if Indie, but that's obvious. That's where

I'll make them work. No, it's obviously like great. And then obviously we're happy about it. I mean, it's a very specific proposition, but like it sounds like this was a team like I like I said that's been built instantly to suit Luca's preferences. And his preferences were obviously like a 2024 Maverick's even even maybe even earlier vintage of that Maverick's team where he's got a diving like room running center, a secondary ball handler and shooting everywhere. And then

let's worry about defense when it's time to worry about defense. So you think Indiana who gave up

two first for Zuba's and basically a 50/50 chance that one of those picks was going to be five

through nine in this draft and then it came up tails. But Zuba's on a way better contract than Kessler and the price for these guys is two first. So you think Kevin Prechern was going to the office today like hey, I told you guys see that Kessler deal. It's a little more defensive. I still do you

“agree with that character now. Yeah, I think that's a good company, but more they played like Russian”

roulette with that lottery pick and lost. And all was really good. Yeah, deal with. But dude, I don't know what the Lakers are doing. I don't care about Kevin Prechern right now. By the way, I do love the well, I can't wait to watch the paysers next year. No, no, no, there's nothing there. But what are we

doing? What are we doing with Walker Kessler? Where are the Los Angeles fucking Lakers, dude? Like we

go after George Micon and Creme Appdougals are barred. Like, and Anthony Davis by the way, like, what are we doing? Walker Kessler? How much are we're the fucking Lakers? Like, where is that swagger? And like, we don't get Walker Kessler. We get, you know, Nicole Yokech. We get the biggest guy available. And it feels like they took a lot of their own flexibility out with all that draft capital bill. So I just, yeah, I know it's, it's a small sort of silver lining

for your day yesterday with your colonoscopy and the Jalen Brown. They started out great, but the Lakers seem to have fucked their up. They're, they're fun. They're a little bit, see our opinion.

“Sarah, if, if you Tesla in a trade Kessler, I think Utah is one of the smartest teams we have.”

That would make me nervous. Sure. Why are you trying to trade them? You're this young rebuilding team. You already have a ton of pay. I have, I have, why is this same thing really Kessler? I'm very excited about the Jalen Brown trade. I have the same feeling about trading with Brett Stevens. I'm like, I really hope, I really hope that that Brett Stevens just like hit his head. And this is what's happened because like, I don't want to be on the wrong side of these

deals. I also varno made a really good point that I happen to agree with, which is, like, it's very strange that that's the market for Walker Kessler and Jalen Durran can't find a job. Yeah. Well, this goes back to my question about should any center except for Wemby and Yoke, if he is a center? I guess he is. Will count him as a center. He's like, point guard on offense.

I don't know what he is. I'm defense. But Jalen Durran paying him $40 million a year,

I just think is prohibited to everybody. If he gets that, God bless him. But it, it feels like 25 to 30 is the range for guys like that that are like good centers, but they're not game changers. And then I guess Yana's if you consider him a center, which I wouldn't. So Utah has triple J marketing, Bailey Peterson, George, and then sense of off Philip Husky collier. So they took a step back from maybe, oh, wow, could this team be a six feet of Peterson's good? I do wonder if they would have taken

Boozer if they knew that this Kessler trade was sitting there. I wonder if that changes the dynamics

“of that at all? Because I think it was a little closer. So you like, you like it with what they have it.”

I just think, if I'm doing the Kessler thing, I think I would just rather have Boozer. But we'll see with Peterson. They obviously, they were all in on them. Wait, did it cross your mind just today, too, with Danny Ainge, who's a main character in Boston history? Would he have done this Jalen Brown deal? Because it's interesting that Danny's fleecing the lake or his opinion on the same day that Jalen Brown thing is going down with Brad Stevens. I think Danny would have traded Jalen a year ago

when Tatum got hurt. He would have been like, here's the software he built. I think he would have completely blown it up. And I think he would have traded him and I think he would have thrown away last year, completely. And probably then proactively a year or two soon on it. I mean, the bigger question is was there even a Jalen Brown trade last year? You know, I don't know what was available last summer, but well, so Lakers were all confused by that. Not to mention, a team with three white guys.

I got to find it from somebody who went back over the course of history. I was from Jason Downey. It's from JD Vance. JD V in Washington. No, Jason Downey said the last time a team with three white guys as their best guys won a championship was 1958, St. Louis. If you go two white guys, Bert McHale or Cows and Honda, can Luca Reeves and Kessler overcome three quarters of a century of NBA history? No.

Yeah, I'm going to go. No. That's a no for me dog. See your fan do we'll put that up? It's no time Lakers. So then the South X concurrently get metravots in yesterday for three for forty seven.

Which I thought was a great deal. The next would not go over the second apron for Mitch.

They've spent a lot of money over the years. We've seen title teams do this, Kirk. Two thousand, 11 Dallas, most famously with Tyson Chandler, where they're just like, "Nope. When the title hold in the line, we want flexibility. 2008 Celtics with Pozy was another decent example of just didn't want to head into all the tax shit." And Doug it's right, didn't they do that kind of with Bruce E. B. I guess probably. Yeah, there was no way they could back

they could back. Yeah, they just got poisoned. There was a reason Lakers situation when he got hot in the finals, they let him go. Defensible or no to you that they let Mitch go. I mean, the theme of our podcast in as a sentence is like this is a hard cap world. Like we're living in a hard cap world. Unless you're the Cleveland Cavaliers last year, the only team that

dared go over this rule the second apron. I don't think they had much of a choice bill.

I do think, you know, as somebody went to the NBA Cup last year and watched Mitchell Roberts in essentially beat the spurs. That was like a premonition for for how the finals will go

“my opinion. He's a such an important part of their culture. That bench unit that I think got us from”

the Tib Zero to the Mike Brown air and obviously got us to a title level. But depth is very, very expensive in the modern NBA. And this is exactly what we can can start to see from a title team. Like, yeah, your second best center is gone. And to your team, I think it's a great addition for you to struggle with rebounding down the stretch and in some of those playoff losses. Mitchell Robinson is one of the best rebounders. If not the best rebounder in the league right now

and he showed it in big moments. So I like it for Boston. I'm not surprised to see to see New York not not being able to afford that many good players.

See, I'm not going over the second apron and getting crippled by all these different things

for my seventh or eighth best player. I'm just not doing it. I just think everything is like context of like, uh, if Sam Prestey did this, everybody would be like, ah, see, he knows, but it's James Dolan. So they're like, cheap skate. Like, I didn't even have to get up and bring Mitch back. You know, like, it's James Dolan was riding such a high after the title and then the speech came up that he gave to the team. And if he had just gone away to like Australia right afterwards,

he'd still be riding a high. I know, but it's like, it is the same kind of thing, you know, like,

“I think we were giving Tim Conley the benefit of the doubt because it was a really good GM with the”

lamello trade. I know that you didn't like it. But he obviously had his reasons, but then people are like, what is, what is Tom Dunton doing with Portland? Why do they have five guards? You know, like, everything is just sort of about like this sort of narrative architecture around it. That was my favorite Jayland trade in the one I was reading for, was Blazers Portland. Yeah, with Drew Howard, I come in back. Comeara and a couple of picks and just call it a day.

And I think that would have accomplished a lot of with Paul George saying this, but obviously Portland didn't want him. And that hurt, yeah, for him over again. Yeah, people just returning down Jayland, up to the right. Portland was really sticky with those young players with Milwaukee, too, Bill. And then when he had in the fact that Janis, I don't think would have wanted to extend in Portland. But yeah, I heard that they were not willing to part with their young talent and in either deal.

But yeah, it would have been better to get younger if you're the Boston Celtics,

“but they, they instead got older. Do either of you have the lakers as a planting or as a playoff team?”

Yeah, I think so because I think they'll be a good regular season team. So if they're all healthy and if they, if they don't suffer, like two months hamstring luka, you know, I think that they will play well on a negative luka. Yeah, hamstring luka or calf strength luka, Bill sent me on the wild goose chase about calf strength and hamstrings last year. And I do think that's the right thing to bring up. Like that's no small assumption at the point with him or Austin Reeves. But yeah, if Luke is playing

their playoff team, if they lose two of those three guys for any significant amount of time, I think it's going to be quite difficult. Luke is plus six, 50 now from VP on Fando,

Caitlyn Brown, still 100 to one CR. We're talking about the all-time F UCs and by somebody. I just backs you throwing him out of you. There's a dark side of this lakers season. Know that I'm maybe I'll have to grab on to as I search for answers and happiness.

Collided Toronto for anger and dick and two first and 31 and 33 and a 27.

“Is it just crazy that they were allowed to do this before they settled this entire investigation?”

It is. It's just crazy. Yes. I've heard this. So what would Adam, would he just say you're not allowed to make a trip? It would have been like you would make the investigation a little bit more expedient if possible. Like for a couple more lawyers at this thing. Like whatever it is, whatever you're going to decide, like it seems strange that the main character of this controversy is now allowed to go

to Toronto and is this is like I've seen people say this is kind of almost a shadow punishment,

you know, or whatever, we're basically unbelievable. I don't believe it either, but yeah,

I just find this incredibly strange that this was allowed to happen. Can I give you some coax? That's okay. It was interesting watching everybody talk about him. Like this is the missing piece

“for Toronto. Now they can make the finals. We just get sports in Malaysia sometimes with guys.”

Coie played for the Cooper's for seven years in the bubble in 2020. They lost them around two and seven to Denver. They blew a three one late. 21. They made the West Finals. He broke down halfway through around two. So basically he had only one two-play officers up to that point. 2022, no playoffs because he's hurt. 2023 lost him five to Phoenix. He broke down in game two. That's round one. 2024 lost in six round one to Dallas. He played two games.

2025 lost in seventh to Denver. 2006 lost the first play in game to the Warriors. At home where they blew a big lead and he was terrible in the second half. He's played 11 playoff games in the last five years. The last time he was part of a winning playoff series was May 2021. Why are we talking about this guy? Like it's the 2019 Coie and he's back. He's not that guy anymore. I don't care. I know he was good. I voted for him for second team on the last year.

But as we talk about over and over again, regular seasons here playoffs are here. And he hasn't shown up in the playoffs for the entire 2020. He hasn't made it. So why is it going to be different this year? Kirk. That's not going to be different. But here's why it's the same shit that makes Jalen look bad relatively. These these models like the estimated plus minus,

which is a great tool. But if you look at it right now, Coie is always a top five top six

player in that list. But to your point earlier, durability is a skill. And a lot of times these

“models like fail to account that you have to play a lot to be a great NBA player. I think you're”

sure. He's been playing 10, 15 games less a year. So you look better in the models. Well that's like what Paul George like looked great in the playoffs after he got his 25 game break. And I do think that's one of the reasons the league is skewing so young is like Julian Shampenny played over a hundred games of NBA basketball this year. Like and many of them in the playoffs. Like this isn't saying what we're asking these athletes to endure. And many other bodies

just simply can't handle it disproportionately older bodies with pre-existing injuries like Coie Leonard. So I'm not surprised I would bet very strongly he won't survive another grind. Like he did in 2019 when he by the way wasn't a hundred percent then either when they won it all. But it was seven years younger than he is coming back. He was really good last year. They lost the first playing game to a team that then lost by like 20 in the second game CR.

My takeaway from this transaction is just that the clippers have returned spiritually to the pre-lob city era. That there's Garland and Brandon Ingram almost feel like pre-lob city clippers to me and I appreciate that. Maybe that is the clippers punishment you're back baby. That's Brandon Ingram. Yeah. Yeah, so the clippers traded Coie Hardin and Zubats. They got Garland and Wagler back. Ingram. Math or I guess. Yeah, that's truly pre-lob city's clippers. Yeah.

Grady Dick is about as oh four clippers is you're gonna get as they jacks and three-improtected first one swap way more cap space. I'm still not sure why they didn't get involved in the jail and thing but what do I know? I am still confused why Coie was so excited to return to Toronto. And I do think this is, if I ever did another basketball book this would be another great NBA

Lauri, Van Vweet, Pau, Gassal in a Baca in 2020 and they probably would have gone back to back

would be my guess. Instead he jumps to the clippers, forces them to trade SGA in other picks, aspiration scandal. Kirk, he won four playoff series in Toronto and two with the clippers. That's wild as part of the front office that sent him to Toronto. It's almost a full circle moment.

“Don't trade great players to your rivals. I remember that the Lakers were calling us in 2018.”

Can we get Coie Leonard from you and Pop was like, "Fuck no, we're not trading our best player to the team that we think is a real threat to our our championship hopes over here." And so we sent him to the Eastern Conference to Toronto where it's for many reasons but one of them was like, "We're not here to help our rivals in Los Angeles." But one of the things built, we knew back in 2018 and he was going to end up in LA a year or so later. He was going to go to Southern

California. So I'm actually kind of surprised given that the emotional reasons he wanted to be back in Southern California that now he's back in Canada. Of all of this stuff, it's like, dude, I thought you wanted to live in LA. I thought that was the whole thing. It does, yeah, and he was living in like an hour and a half outside of LA too and seem like you love being in California. It does, I could, conspiracy bill has, has done some deep dives. I'll just say that. conspiracy bill has

unlike who's doing the aspiration scandal. It's like, "We're working on it. We're going to be our verdict." Yeah, conspiracy bill is going to look at this over the course of the summer. All right, quickly LeBron. Last year, right, like this is great that this is the, here we are, here we are 15 years later. We're still waiting for LeBron. Yeah, I've got a brand

“Curtis trade rumors piece. How we said we're in the trade rumors era for Grantland?”

2014, he wrote it. It was 12 years later and it was a very, very, a piece that saw the future in a lot of different ways including that we're probably going to be here for the rest of our lives with LeBron. He decided not to return to the lakeers. I wrote down he decided not to return to the lakeers, like I decided not to return to ESPN, but that was funny. Anyway, then we all knew where this was going and do we left? Where is it going? Well, with him not being on the lakeers.

Yeah, but like where is this for six months? Because first of all, I just have to say,

our ringer podcast network colleague, Rich Paul, it's been doing a wonderful job. The ringer's rich Paul, having all of us play a game of clue about, you know, with like he wants to go somewhere that has both good indoor and outdoor golf. You know, and it's like where everybody is like looking up top golf, like locations across the country. Well, you want to see what it's winning and he wants to be happy. Sure. Sure. Wouldn't have guessed that. I find this fascinating. I almost

find it kind of fun. You know what I mean? Like we're not going to get to do this not many more times probably that ever with him. So I'm down to go one more last time. We're on the Karrasel.

“Kirk, I'm going to make a prediction. Yeah. I think this goes on for a lot of the month”

because it will get stories day after day and conjecture and podcast content when podcasts are dead and mid July. I have for everybody has gone with wherever. I just think this might, my guess with this keeps going and going. Something, and I've seen and we did, I did something with Zach about it on Sunday, where it could be go and I thought saying Antonio made the most sense, but they signed to Bias Harris. So that's not happening. Denver is a team that I think we

always ought to be fun to see him and yolk it together is no history there. I haven't seen this

possibility mentioned yet. Hold on your seats. What if he doesn't pick anybody until like January February range? What if he just said? Roger Clements. Yeah. What if he just says, you know what? I'm going to take my time with this one guys. I want to watch the league. I'm going to play golf for the next six months. I'm going to stay in shape. I want to make like a February March April, May June, run a five month sprint. I own every single record there is to

own right now. It's not like I'm playing for maybe, did he get to 40,000 points that I remember. I don't even, he has so many records. I don't even know what the records are anymore. Does he just say, you know what? I'm going to wait. I'm going to wait to see who's more unhappy with their team in December in January and early February. And I will just have people keep talking about this for the next six months. I think it's in play. What do you think of that idea? I think that that would be a

sensational media story and and given and now I think that there would be some resentment that

like let's see who's surging in January and I will come in as like the great arm off the bench,

you know, and if anybody can keep himself in playing shape, it's him. You know, it's the Roger Clemens move as Kirk said. Yeah. I'm still good. I don't care about regular seasons anymore. I'm going to pop in and out with somebody for four or five months. And also I think that it's worth noting like the math on like who would he be offending if he did this, right? Like he's played for several different teams as we've talked about over the course of this pod, like the rivalries, the state

of rivalries and and there are no gozones and the NBA is kind of falling apart. So yeah, like why not if if Denver's rolling, I could see him go to Denver, but in January, you know, like if well, especially if the market's not as robust as maybe they're pretending it is and he's looking at

“lower than mid levels or so the only thing I think this is that if he does announce that this is”

his final season, which I guess everybody is assuming, that this would kind of diminish the victory lap or maybe he hasn't decided that at all. We don't have any intel on that. Like the one of the

reasons I've always thought he was going to go the words is that thought it was going to be a two-year

deal lined up with curry and lined up with curry and they'll be I was calling it the expendables but they'll just sell out everywhere and it'll be this kind of appreciation to your tour combined with the fact that they'd be pretty competitive if they could get everybody to stay healthy at the same time in April and May. But that didn't happen right away. So wondering why? Because I think the warriors were ready for it to happen. And now it's on hold. So the Miami thing makes no sense to me,

I think that would be so weird. You're going to have bam in Janice and LeBron, all that like what is that team? Are you winning a title with that? Also Pat Riley basically called him out when he was leaving in 2014 and was basically without saying it's saying like you're taking the not cowardly way out. But you're doing that for me on that chapter one loss. What is LeBron playing for? Like what is LeBron playing for financially and what is LeBron playing for emotionally?

Is he playing? He's playing the compete, which is weird because he was just on a team of Luka who we have as a top five or six ringer one hundred guy and Reeves who's a top 35 to 40 guys. So it's not like he couldn't have competed on the Lakers. It's just the real issue is you can't compete

if you're paying a 41 year old guy at $50 million a year anymore. So he has to wrap around his

head like where am I in this current ecosystem? I can't be one of the best two guys on the title

“team anymore. I just can't. So what does that mean financially? So that's what you wanted to”

wait up. Where do you want him to go? I wanted him to go to San Antonio. I thought that would have been awesome. Denver is just fucking weird enough that I would watch every league past game and then a goal in the state I think would be super fun. Cleveland is the one that doesn't make any sense to me and that might be one of the most likely outcomes. You're going to have him and James Hardin on the same team and if you put LeBron on last year's Cavs team against the next,

which is put him instead of Wade and Strew's getting all those minutes. Does the series change? Do you think the next lose that series is a problem against the next? Yeah. So I don't had the Cavs scenario. I don't know. Kirk that one seems lame to me. I don't think that's some anywhere. It feels right in my gut though. Like the part where he's doing a victory lap

“in the Cavs jersey and the goal isn't to win a championship. So I think that's really the”

fork in the road. It's just the ones who win one more title. It's not Cleveland. I don't think that puts them over the home. But it plays like San Antonio or Denver that is a player away, a chess piece away. I think we're going to learn about a lot about his motivations by when he chooses and where he chooses. Because I do think the story, the movie, the movie story is going back to Cleveland. I feel like that's the way for him to be the most beloved athlete in Ohio history and to make sure that. Probably

it is. So it might not, but I know it's lame, but I do think if I had to guess that's where this goes. But if he chooses a place to go win, I mean, Philly, Minnesota, Denver, San Antonio. There's a lot of compelling choices where he can be the fourth best guy and hell, he would make every team. We kind of read the good. We're launching the Red Bull team and we'll also take 35 words. Minnesota would be an insane move. I think if I'm going to do that, if I'm going to latch on to a

team, I'm waiting till December to do it. That's not going anywhere. I want to watch all these teams. I want to play it out and have a good time and do the, is he retiring or isn't he? And I'm just

about what's happening with him that seems to be, at least partly addictive to him and everyone

“in his circle. And by the way, Dax, we're taking it next. We knew he wasn't coming back to the”

likeers. The reason I love that bill is like, again, the 82 game regular season is that I'm seeing a mountain basketball for an older person to try to endure. I like this. This could actually set a template for Kevin Durant going forward or Stephen Curry going forward is like, I don't need the be out there until Christmas. Like, this is ridiculous. I'm just going to get a hamster and training has become and sports science and training have gotten so good that I can keep my

body in playing shape even if I'm not playing. Yeah. And I more likely to be relevant in April May and June, if I'm not playing October, November, December, meaning less basketball games against, you know, Orlando on a Tuesday night. He is 43,000, 440 points. He had so many records.

I couldn't remember if he had 40,000 points or not. He has the games record. He has basically the

minutes name a record. He probably has it or is in the top five. So the regular season, I don't

“think helps them as much at this point. I think what would help them is, how do I stay in the mix?”

How do people, how are people continuing to talk about me as I try to do this golf side thing that I'm trying to do? And then can I just parachute into a good situation? Because I'm want to, I mean, the thing with the bronze, he could fit in any situation and be like fun the bronze. Like he was before Luca got her in the lacres. So just like plot me in here, I'll figure it out. And then becomes a huge asset. And maybe he'll watch Minnesota for two months and be like,

yeah, I feel like I can help those guys. I'll go in there. Or maybe he'll watch Denver and be like, oh, shit. Christian Brown looks healthy this year. Huh. So anyway, like, that makes way more sense to me than him talking himself and to being on the clippers and playing with Garland and Wagner. I just don't see him doing stuff like that. A couple other really quick things that we'll go. Miami loses Powell because of the honest trade. So I feel like he has to be added to the

honest trade. The guy made the all start team last year. They lost everybody on their team except Bam and Mitchell. I felt like the honest sweepstakes ended up just, there's going to be some piece written about all the teams that affect it negatively. And then the trade feels like it's kind of blowing up their team. And that we're right now it's 9.41 Pacific time. But they lost Harris. They replaced them with John Collins. Who's fine? I don't think he's as good as the bias

Harris. I thought Harris was last year's team. They're number two guy that went to and it's that needed a basket. And it was also like delivering culture, setter guy who's seen it all and like here to help Kaden Durin and then and then you bring in John Collins who seems like I have no idea like what we're kind of duty is, but it just seems like kind of more of a renta forward situation rather than like a three year deal. That's really a one year deal. Yeah. And they seem paralyzed by

all this during stuff. But it's weird to me that if they had this moment coming with their team

“where they're going to have this great reckoning, why didn't they go harder on last year's team?”

They extended herder, which I thought was weird to be just trying to remember him playing. And the playoffs. So I don't know what to make or what they're doing Kirk. And why not try to go after Jalen Brown would be the other way. If that's the price,

couple first round picks and some side of the cap flexibility, which the Celtics didn't even get.

Yeah. And the Durin, they might end up with Jalen Durin still on their team. And that relationship is going to be strained now. So, you know, there's a case for why don't we just put in our armor on Jalen Durin? Yeah. You had a bad playoffs. But you're all in VA 22 year old for not getting another player like that into Troy. So if it ends up with like this quasi strained relationship with Jalen Durin and some number that is insulting, they have that's not great either. But this is

a 61 win team bill that was on the rise. And it feels like I had them down in my biggest losers of free agency so far because it feels like they're not getting back to 61 wins right next year. Like the, yeah, they're still sewer that might lose. That's right. Who knows beef still. Robinson, they wave might come back. They lose Harris. This team was successful. And they just, I thought they were a score short. Favorite signings really quick. I thought Ubrae to Indiana for

two for 17. I really liked. They're going to, they're going to like him. Indiana's going to be good. Like, if they get however, 100% back, I know he battled shingles and stuff. But I really like that one. I thought Konard to for 13 in Phoenix was was a fun one. And then Harris, the San Antonio, I just really liked. Although, if we, if we go backwards and we think about that finals, if they have to buy his Harris, who's losing minutes Kirk at that point? So we lose him for the

make a threes in a game and just win it. Uh, I love Julian champagne and then related to sort of the spurs added three years to him. And that's a great story because he was a scrappy guy now. He's

“a paid. Um, but it just gives them optionality. And I think Tobias is a shot creator. Like, this”

spurs looked terrible on offense a lot. Like, the offense just doesn't look good. It gives them another shot creator. So I think somebody could do 10 shots a game where there's 10 or less seconds left in the shot clock. 100%. So I like it for them. It gives them optionality and looks and everybody on that team is still getting better. But you know, I didn't understand the barn's thing in relation to to that. But um, they might really charge back. I get it. But could they love them for one year for

two million? That one year for eight. Uh, we still don't know if Peyton Watson's going. We don't

know where Mathoran's going. Um, my favorite free agent that's left is, well, I have to really hatch a mora. Yeah. And Simon's. I think both of those guys. I really like Simon's last year. And, um, I think he's at least a 10 to 15 million dollar per hour. I thought there was a chance to Celtics would bring him back. Um, and then hatch a mora, I was surprised that wasn't the guy saying the Tonya got Kirk. Well, that was the room. I just thought that was more of a son of him. Yeah. Do you

do that? See, who makes more sense to buy a Cyrus or really for what they what they have. Yeah. I mean,

“I think that San Antonio is probably Kirk with no way that are the me, but like a lot of”

their calculus has to do with what they expect Harper and and castle to be next season. So yeah,

I have done how that relates to Ruby versus uh, versus Tobias. I don't know. But it seems like it

would have been an excellent addition. It sort of streams these still out there. I don't know where he's going to wind up. In Ken Rich Williams is the other one that uh, uh, but she's clearly somebody that could be one of your nine guys in the playoffs. There's like he might be your ninth guy, but he could be so Uber has out and then it's starting to get in the slump pickings range. We'll see if somebody gives Tariys and uh, RFA, but for the most part, I guess the so the biggest

storyline left is what happened with Jayle Brown, what they trade them, and where's the Broncoing and then Ken Paint Watson gets some sort of deal somewhere that will force Denver's hand, but everybody's at it. Yeah, how long does the craziness go? Like is there anything that could happen in the next three days that then triggers somebody else to be like, you know what actually

“I also want. I don't I don't want to be here. You know, but I think that this felt like a fever for”

the last 10 days and now we've sweat it out and we'll have the end of free agency and go in a hibernation. You know what I really blame over everything else me doing CR month. It's possible.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. It was the first domino. I do see our month. Within a month the Celtics have blown

a three-month lane to play upstairs to the sixers and then we're trading the sixers Jayle and Brad and a trade where we get Paul George back. And it starts with C.R. Month. It all starts much like Jayle and and Jason. CR get in the steering wheel for a month has just completely thrown the ringer apart. We also traded you AJ Brown into a football franchise and crisis, um, you know, and and he thought he was going to go play for variable. Is he going to play for variable? I don't

know. I mean, like it's like there's a lot of things up in the air and Boston. You hate to see it. It really is. We lose the Maple Leafs lottery pick. The redsax season has been in all time disgrace and just when things were getting better and we sweat the Yankees it really goes out with elbow trouble. Grimtimes. It's also like 130 degrees in Boston this week apparently. Anyway. All right. Kirk Goldsbury. Joy the Joy the Joy the July 4th. CR. This was the true

true pleasure. Thanks for being such a pro. Thanks, brother. Thanks for jumping on here in the morning. Thanks to, uh, uh, Gahau and Eduardo and Chris and everybody else. It's Spotify. I'm going to be back on Sunday at some point, um, with some sort of live show. And then the next rewatchables is going to be all eat, which is coming on, um, yeah on Monday. You can watch that on Netflix actually the next five days, but that's our ninth Michael man movie. CR. I can't I can't wait for people to hear it. I

think if there's one lesson and one thing we want to leave people with as a head into July 4th, it's make sure you get your call on us. Okay. Make sure you get it, but don't do it on July 1st. And then CR possibility will go live Monday night at 15. We're talking. We're talking about jinxes, non jinxes, all that stuff. Congrats on Harry Kane. Great. Great to have football yesterday. It was really awesome. Legendary. Anyway. All right,

guys, have a great weekend. Thanks everybody. We watch. Must be 21 plus in president's leg states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas star casino or 18 plus in president DC, Kentucky or well, my game problem caught 100 gambler or 1, 800 my reset. Call 888 797777 or visit ccpg.org/chat and Connecticut or mdgambling help.org and Maryland.

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