Catherine Rampell and Robert Garcia: China Is Starting to Eclipse the U.S.

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The time for the gratis and cheese. Hello and welcome to the Ballard Podcast. I'm your host Tim Miller. We've got a double header for you today. And segment two.

It is, I think, alongside Rokana, the other congressman who has been the most effective in the opposition for the Democrats in the house this year. And that's Robert Garcia, the ranking member of the oversight committee. So we've much to talk to him about.

But first, my colleague, my buddy,

economics editor here at the ballwork, she writes a newsletter receipts, which is published this evening. There's the evenings. She also co-host MSNows. The weekend prime time.

It's Katherine and Paul. What's up, girl? Hey, good to see you. Long time no see. I know.

We saw each other. Everybody yesterday at the ballwork all hands. And I'm still in the shit town. And D.C. As you can see from my background here.

I was wondering where you were. Okay. So I saw the ballwork books.

I took down the Sarah Longwell QR code that she wanted me to promote

in my background. I'm like, "This isn't, this isn't KVC. Okay.

“You should buy Sarah's book, but this isn't the KVC."”

KVC is bankrupt. So I don't want to go to many different victims. I just said, "We're going to have economics talking. And all China talk is it's somewhat like everything talk is it's somewhat like an economics talk." I think that's Tyler Cohen, but I want to talk a little bit

about the summit first. Trump and all of our greatest CEOs and much of the cabinet. All traveled to China to pay homage to the communist dictator, Xi Jinping. And they're opening session Trump said this.

We have a fantastic relationship. I have such respect for China. The job you've done. You're a great leader. I say it to everybody.

You're a great leader. The top CEOs are all here to pay respects to you. It is an honor to be your friend. It's playing it on a little thick for me. I don't know.

What you think about the meeting. He's just a master diplomat right there. He's buttering him up so that he can swoop in and make the deal of the century. I think that's what's going on. I think what's actually going on is he brought a little

entourage of rich people to. I think he thinks impressed.

“Presidency because that's how Trump operates, right?”

He thinks when you're surrounded by rich people, that means you're great. And that means that they're paying fuel to you. Probably a lot of those rich people. I eat the CEOs who are there. I think a really in harm mitigation mode.

Maybe they're there. Probably they have multiple objectives, right?

The problem is to do a little solid for Donald Trump or what Donald Trump thinks is a favor.

But also make sure that they walk away without giant new tariffs on iPhones or or any of the other supplies that they might be importing from China. So I think all of that stuff is going on there. Yeah. She didn't seem quite as effusive when talking about Trump.

Maybe it's a cultural gap there, I don't know. Though Trump is way nicer and more, I mean, he's almost prostrate on the ground with his praise of she. Can we compare that to the treatment of Zelensky getting lectures in the Oval Office or you know how he treats a lot of our, you know, democratic allies.

It's a notable gap. There's this picture that was posted on our reddit page. The audio list is off to describe it to you for the videos. Folks will pull this up. And it's Trump getting framed mugged by Sherman.

She, they do the photo. It's the China flag, the US flag, you know, behind them. We'll step and repeat. And then we have Sherman. She just standing there quite casually looking at the camera.

A little smirk. Very comfortable, nice fitting suit. You know, doesn't kind of seems almost bored a little bit. Trump on the other hand, leaning over. There's the green line test on social media who's leaning in

relationship as a person who's less power. Leaning over aggressively grimacing sweating. Orange face, white hair, oomphalumpa face. Trying to grasp. She's hand aggressively.

Very ill fitting suit. Unhappy. You know, you can overstate it. But I the body language doctor. I think it says a lot.

I don't know about you. Am I overlooking, am I looking too much at this picture for it?

It certainly looks like it shows the power dynamics that you just described.

“And I think, however, literal this particular picture can be interpreted.”

I think it does reflect a general shift in the power balance between China and the United States, economically, diplomatically.

And basically all of the ways that matter.

Look, there's been some good reporting recently about how China increasingly views the United States as a declining power. Not just China, presumably for that matter, but it's pretty important that China views us that way for a very, very long time. China kind of, I don't know if looked up to us as the right characterization.

But in many ways, wanted to emulate the United States in terms of our living standards, our influence around the world. They wanted to do it a little bit differently, right? Socialism with Chinese characteristics rather than calling it capitalism. And their soft power was of a different form.

“And they said that they weren't going to intervene or admonish economic partners,”

if they committed human rights abuses on like the United States.

But they wanted to have the same kind of power and influence and market share around the world that they envied the United States as having. I worked in China a very long time ago in the early 2000s. And I remember that-- What city?

In Beijing. I was working for NBC News. And it was in the lead up to the 2008 Olympics. And I remember this was seen as China's big coming out party. And there was a lot of like emulation of American culture

and inviting American pop culture celebrities. I remember I went to the MTV Awards in China while I was there. And there was a lot of like sort of knockoff versions of American pop culture icons and economic innovators and things like that.

“And now China, I think, in many ways, is trying to eclipse the United States”

or has eclipse the United States at least in select industries. So that's kind of a longer term story. I think that has been facilitated certainly by Donald Trump and hastened by the Iran War. Yeah, if you look at like who President Xi has met with just in the past month,

or in a couple of months, you know, it's the leaders of a lot of Asian country, Southeast Asian countries, even before the war, you had the PM of Canada, the PM of the UK, the President of South Korea, all coming to Beijing

for the first time in many years in part because they were seeking a relationship,

a tighter relationship with a different authoritarian leader as opposed to Donald Trump. And we'll try to sort of force them into the arms of the Chinese government. And so all of that is kind of the subtext of that one photo. Yeah, and it's not just, you know, Trump's arrangements syndrome, neo-lived, neo-Con, Tucker Carlson, foil, Katherine Rampell,

but as a assessment, we have a Washington Post report out today, a confidential U.S. intelligence analysis details the ways China is exploiting the war to further maximize its advantage over the U.S. across military economic and diplomatic and other fields. It goes through a list of a bunch of stuff,

the ways in which China is like reaching out to our allies or dealing with shortages, you know, an energy in other spaces. It seems to me that it is a pretty blanket assessment at this point that Trump comes to this meeting at a moment where China's been maximizing its their advantage. So, a brutal frame logging by the issue for our leader, Chairman Xi, you might say.

Other bad news for Trump is kind of the broader economic forces. I want to go through things kind of point by point with you. But I'm wondering what your sense is of the macro right now. And we are in a moment where, I feel like we've told the story a bunch over the last year or two, like the stock market.

If you're just looking at the stock market, you think things are going pretty swimmingly, frankly. But a lot of other indicators, not as good. I'm wondering what your sense is the macro state apply. Yeah, I mean, this is why no one should ever take financial advice for me,

because I frankly do not understand what is going on in the stock market right now for pretty much the reasons you laid out. Stock market seemed almost euphoric. When there's bad news, they dip a little bit. Bad news like we don't have a deal with the Iranians, for example.

When there's good news, they rock it upward. And it seems very asymmetric to me.

versus how much the underlying companies are actually earning.

“So like, what is the stock price relative to what that company actually earns?”

Immigration? Immigration? Is it nothing? Yeah, exactly. Look at me.

I got to see my innocent macro when I want. There you go. If you look at the long term relationship, it seems totally out of whack. The last time it was this out of whack,

that ratio was that this off was during the dot com bubble in 2000. So I don't know that that per se means it's a bubble. Maybe this time is different as people like to say, but it certainly doesn't look great. And I just don't know how much longer it can be sustainable,

particularly if this war keeps going,

if you keep on having these kinds of disruptions, not only in energy markets, but in fertilizer in plastics, in aluminum, in almost anything that you can imagine. But now that said, if you look at the actual like hard economic data, not the market data, but what's happening to consumer spending

or investment, it's not like it's falling off a cliff. It's not great, but it's sort of like chugging along. The job numbers that we got last week, they were fine. They were actually better than expected, but they still weren't like spectacular.

There have been a bunch of big layoff announcements since then.

“I think it was at Walmart announced that they were going to be laying off”

a bunch of people, good your tires, they're closing a plan, but I think it's closing next year. So there have been a bunch of big corporate layoff announcements, like, you know, how that shakes out relative to other kinds of drop curve, I don't know.

But basically the economy has not imploded, which is good,

but it's still at odds. It's okay, whereas stock markets are booming. And the thing that I worry about is that, well, A markets are just too appealing. Like they're too polyanish and that B,

the actual economy is just like one more little shock away from a really bad crash. I don't, we're not there yet. But it seems like there's enough fragility in the underlying economy that I'm worried about it.

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One of the invoked terms in 2020 from economists and it was a lot of democratic campaign. Folks were talking about this was the K-shaped economy. Like you were seeing this where they took the upper middle class and upper class was continuing to do well while things were getting worse for lower middle and lower class. People were kind of stopped talking about that a little bit and like the post-COVID kind of Arab

because like wages were kind of going up for, you know, people in the bottom quintile. You're starting to see that theme pop up again.

“And I think which is really the stock market, which is this kind of K-shaped recovery.”

Yeah, it's totally related to the stock market. And actually if you look at like the University of Michigan consumer sentiment numbers,

because of higher prices.

They broke it out for those who own a lot of stocks and those who own no stocks. And as you can imagine, the people who do own stocks are much more copicetic, I guess. Like they're mad about gas prices and they're mad about grocery prices going up as because they are going up. They're mad about all of those things, but then they look over at their 401k and they're like, "Man, you know, maybe it's worth it, maybe it's worth the trade-off."

Whereas people who do not have those financial assets who are lower income, they can't just eat it on those higher gas prices or other higher prices that they're paying. And they don't have that like nice little nest egg to think about. So yeah, you are seeing a divergence, but in general, I mean, people are still pretty unhappy with the economy, even the people who are higher income.

They're just like less unhappy than the poorest people out there.

One of the things driving this, as you mentioned there with prices, is the inflation kind of starting to rise again.

“I think I got this number a little wrong in yesterday's podcast, some of my apologies, and my notes, but we had this producer price index number that came out yesterday,”

which is measure of cost of businesses or paying for goods and services. And that rose 1.4% in April, which means it's up 6% year over a year. So that's more than what we're seeing in like a consumer inflation, which, I guess. You tell me that like this sort of signals that like more inflation is coming for the consumers, I guess. Yeah, it's the prices that are charged by wholesalers, I think that's a good way to think about it.

And those prices are rising a lot. And one reason why, as you point out, is like, they're more likely to be dealing with the energy shock. It takes a little bit longer for some of that energy shock to work a way down the supply chain. They're dealing with those higher plastic packaging costs. And so, yeah, that's going to work its way through the system that you do normally see the PPI numbers shift a little bit earlier,

you know, when there's like a big shock, then the CPI number. So the producer's price is versus the consumer's price is that totally makes sense, and that is concerning. And it's hard to know how long or how disruptive this straightaway move situation is going to be. There are a bunch of circumstances where it looks like people are being a little optimistic about. I think people are being a lot optimistic.

Yeah, I'm my opinion as people being a lot optimistic. Yeah, about how quickly things will resolve themselves.

There have been a bunch of like energy CEOs who have basically said, you know, I'm not sure markets have fully priced in.

How much more expensive things are going to get or how much longer this disruption is going to be. And it exactly is that optimism, which I don't entirely understand because again. I feel like I hear these conspiracy theories about it.

“Oh, like companies are just trying to support Donald Trump, and that's why they have these forecasts that seem optimistic or that's why.”

The real future's prices aren't higher than they are, and it's like, no, that's not how they work. They're trying to make money. You know, they're all of these traders are trying to make money. If there is an arbitrage opportunity, it may be made because everybody else is like, you know, trying to make Donald Trump look good. And you have the opportunity to make money.

You're going to make the money. So I don't think it's about that, but it's animal spirits. Like, this is the best way to characterize it. There's there's weird stuff happening. Yeah, an optimism, madman theory, madman, they're just a feeling like Trump is not this stupid.

Like, we're not going to actually get into a war like it's got to end any day. Now, I don't, I don't know. They're not listening to the board podcast. That's not something true. It's really short podcast. This is not, this is not financial advice either, but we've been right about this.

I was, I forget it was goldman. There's one of the big firms like that. And they have like a projection, the week of the war or the week that Trump started for when gas prices were going to come back down. And it was like now, you know, we've been in this 70 days now. And you know, somebody posted this graph that golden was like circulating a couple months ago.

And I was like, maybe I should be a goldman. Not at the board work.

“I mean, I should be making, I think I should hire me.”

I'm a pretty high rate, like an hourly rate. And I call them, do like, guys, like this, this is a quagmire. Yeah. Leave it if you try to get out of it immediately. Like Iran now realizes that they have power there.

They're going to make it harder to go through. Like Iran now has the TPS report that they're sending the ships that you're going to send to them if you're going to come through. And there was free passage, right? So I don't know how these numbers funny, but like if you live looked at the info graphics of like how many ships were going through the straight before the war started. And so even if it reopens, but it's slowed because they don't know where the mines are because, you know, Iran is vetting the ships that come through.

And as a report came out, the oil inventories are already falling.

Like everywhere around the world. And they're going to continue to fall for months. And so some of this is being buttressed by like backlawed inventories.

“But anyway, long story short, I think it's way worse than people are saying.”

Yeah. And the question is how credible is it if the United States says the straight is open. If the Iranian government says the straight is open, if you are a company, think about sending your commercial tanker through that straight, do you believe it? Right?

Do you believe that you're not going to get hit by a drone or a mine or anything else? Does your crew believe it? Right. Let's say it is a terrible company. Insurance company.

All of those things add costs.

Even if the tankers, you know, resume going through, resume transiting at the same rates that they were before, which I think is not likely to happen any time soon.

It's going to be much more costly because of all of that risk that's baked in there because people cannot unsee the fact that it has been closed and dangerous for a very long time. You know, you can't just like pretend it goes back. Yeah. Just being with the insurance like, you know, again, not a macro economist, but I'm moved to New Orleans where the roads are shitty. And guess what?

My car insurance went up a bunch because there's more wrecks here than there is in Kansas or whatever. And so like, that's going to happen to the whole economy, right? Like the people that are insuring and re-insuring these tankers, you know, the numbers crunchers back there. It's tanker insurance HQ. We're going to be like, I think we need to up the rates.

Okay. I'm probably sending these ships. It's like anyway. Yeah. I mean, that's already happened.

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Send. You're writing tonight about the bond. And right, everybody immediately their eyes start to glaze over. It's nap time now once we start out the bond. You know, but it's it's quite important.

The craziest thing about all of this to me is like one of Trump's big things when he came back in was he wants to get interest rates back down. And obviously he did it in a corrupt way. And he did it in a ham-fisted way. And he's not in a economy. He doesn't know anything.

“Like there was something to the fact that in addition to inflation one of the other reasons I think.”

Why can't why people were so down on the Biden economy was because interest rates were so high. But people felt stuck. You know, if you're a senior, you want to downsize. You're like, I'm going to downsize and pay more because the mortgage rates are so much higher. Right.

Like, like us, like we, if you moved for a job, you're like, you know, we would just walk. Or, you know, you, if you were had another kid, you're like, I want to move out to the suburbs and get into a bigger house and. Up size. Like by a car. Yeah, by a car.

Like it just wasn't affordable. To do all of that because the interest rates are so much higher than they were pre-COVID. And that was starting to come back now. Like we're, you know, I was looking to refinance. Like we're watching it.

It's like we're almost like a couple quarters away from being like, you know, we're there. There's a little bit of slack out there for people. And I think that that was going to have a real impact that was going to benefit Trump economically.

Not everybody, not the people collecting interest. But, you know, most of the economy. And he just fucked all that up in two months to be fair. It's more than two months because it started with liberation day when he raised tariffs.

“Because what happens is interest rates are related to what's happening in inflation, right?”

I think typical consumers are like, well, higher interest rates make things more expensive. So they're part of the problem. They're actually the solution to the inflation. It's not super intuitive.

But basically what happens is when you have prices going up a lot, that means the Fed is more often.

They're not going to raise interest rates to try to like squelch inflation. And then eventually you hope to get to this equilibrium where prices are lower and interest rates are lower. But you kind of need the inflation thing to go down first before you can bring down interest rates. And what Donald Trump has done instead is he's re-accelerated inflation. He did it with tariffs and now he's doing it with the war.

And the real question for the Fed is, well, is it like a one time increase in prices? That was that was the hope with tariffs that would be a one time increase. It's not like an ongoing increase in prices that you really have to worry about, you know, inflation kind of spiraling out of control. Same deal with a massive oil shock. Is it a one time increase in oil prices?

And what happens is there's this fear that there's like this one to punch of those things together.

That will reset people's expectations so that they start to expect ever higher prices. Even if the oil shock was kind of a one time thing, people start worrying about prices going up. So they preemptively raise their own prices, which becomes self perpetuating. Because they don't know what he wants to get caught off guard being the only, you know, of Trump out there. Essentially, who isn't raising their prices whenever everybody else is. I was thinking of more vulgar words for that, but yes.

I like the vulgar words. I want to hear you cast. Give me something, sucker. Anyway, so that's the real problem here that Trump himself has re-accelerated inflation. And now the Fed doesn't know what to do about it. When we started this year, it looked like, you know, Mark has kind of thought that like the Fed was going to cut rates a couple more times. As you mentioned, they had cut rates last year. It looked like they were going to cut rates a couple more times.

And now that seems to be off the table. Mark, it's do not think that there's going to be a rate cut this year, maybe not even next year. In fact, it looks more likely that they're going to raise interest rates rather than cut them by the end of next year, which not, not of which is good for consumers, not of which is good for voters. But when they're going to the voting booth for all the reasons you just mentioned, it's also really shitty for Kevin Wash, who just got confirmed to be the Fed share. He just got confirmed yesterday.

Yeah, let's talk about this.

“Yeah, he is really, and like, what do you do if you're Kevin Wash?”

I guess maybe you don't care because you got the job you always dreamed of.

I suck it up to Trump and now he does do whatever you want. I guess really the hope, but yeah, he's screwed. He's in a real hard spot because he got the job because Donald Trump thinks he's going to cut interest rates. There were a number of reasons to think that that would be difficult for Kevin Wash to do. One is that he historically is considered an inflation hawk.

Whatever he's been saying recently about cutting interest rates, and he has publicly placed in like last year when he was auditioning for the job. He has said that he wanted to cut interest rates. He is known throughout his career as like airing more on the side of higher rates tighter monetary policy because he was so worried about inflation. So like he seems to be constitutionally primed. Not constitutionally like our founding document, but like in his character, right?

He seems to be like more likely to lean towards higher rates, not lower rates. Then you have the actual inflation that you are seeing throughout the economy. Again, largely instigated by Trump's own policies because Trump doesn't seem to understand what his policies do. That makes it harder for Kevin Wash to get on board with rate cuts. And then the biggest challenge is that Kevin Wash is one of 12 people who will be voting on interest rates.

Even if he wants to cut rates lower, either because he believes that's the right path, which I don't think. Or because he's worried about wrath from Donald Trump, which I do think. He can't do it.

“And so the real question is how does he manage that?”

How does he manage Donald Trump when he comes into the Fed? He's supposed to be sort of like operating by consensus, getting everybody onto an agreement about where interest rates and other monetary policy should go. He's supposed to be marshalling the troops and getting them to more or less they vote as a block. There are a couple of decent recently. That's unusual.

Usually they vote as a block. So he's trying to get them all on the same page. Meanwhile, Donald Trump is going to be breathing down his neck saying, why aren't you cutting rates? And even if you wanted to, can't force this group of people to do it.

Is he going to like be the first Fed share ever to dissent from the rest of the Fed board?

I don't think that's going to happen.

“But he's going to have to manage expectations for Donald Trump.”

If I was saying I'd do a Trump and I would start tweeting trash talking the other Fed board members, the other governors. And just blame that and just be like, these losers won't let me do what I want to do. That's what I do if I was Kevin Warsh. Yeah, except that Warsh's vote on interest rates will be public. So is he actually going to, you know, he's willing to like they're not 11 to 1.

Yeah, I mean, he can tweet saying they did what I, the opposite of what I wanted them to do. But if A, he looks ineffectual and B, like his vote will be a matter of public record. Did he vote along with them? He's going to vote just like, he'll do just like Susan Collins.

He's going to vote how Trump wants.

And then say I'm very concerned about what these other people are doing. I guess I'm covered. I don't know. I'm just joking. You know, I mean, and I wonder how worried he is or should be about Trump weaponizing the state against him. Like Trump has against Jay Powell and against Lisa Cook. Who's another Fed government?

Probably less concerned about that because his father-in-law is Trump's body for on louder. And they, you know, we're doing the mind deal and Ukraine. And then he was trying and louder some pushing for the Greenland thing. And they're both in the Epstein files. I don't know, I mean, Trump has has certainly turned heel on lots of other people who thought that they can more of a shield than Kevin Worshuss.

And I have one other topic before I just, just, just want to let you, let you know. Like, I've got an apple bomb because from this podcast, Bill Crystal and Jim Komi. I said, Bill Crystal and Jim Komi. Cust on the podcast this week. So whatever vulgar word, gentlemen, and this is the place for it. Just let it loose. Let your animal spirits loose.

That's all I'm saying, Catherine. All right. I saw you talking about the ag economy this week on a social clip. And I do just want to close with that.

“Because I think it's important because, you know, we care about the well-being of our farm or brothers and sisters who feed us.”

So for earnest reasons, it's important. For political reasons, it's pretty important. Because the Democrats are going to take the power back that they need this fall. They're going to have to win in some farm areas. Iowa, Ohio, Nebraska, Kansas.

Like, this is, this is where the Senate is being fought. And the economies there are shitty. And I was interested this morning to see Roger Marshall on Sputnik. Fox Business, his senator from Kansas, talking about how things are going in his state. Let's listen.

China knows that he means business as well. So we're trusting it. We trust in Trump that he's over there making a great deal for us. No one's done more for American agriculture and rural American than President Trump's Secretary Rollins. And a Republican-only Congress.

Excuse me. That's Sputnik, the Newsmax, not Fox Business. It's hard to tell the difference between the three, sometimes. Roger Marshall, Kansas Center on Newsmax, he's got an election coming up. What do you think about that assessment?

Nobody's done more than book runs and Trump and farm country is just having a golden age right now.

“I think few people in American history have done more to screw over farmers than Donald Trump has in a very compressed period of time.”

If you look at what's happened to farm bankruptcies, they rose 46 percent last year.

And that's not only because of Trump policies to be clear, but it's largely because of Trump policies through tariffs, to raise their input costs for things like fertilizer for the equipment that they need. The tariffs also led to countries around the world, basically boycotting American goods, China stopped buying soybeans entirely for a while. And that's obviously hurt farmers in a lot of the states that you just rattled off.

You have Trump deporting a large share of their labor force. The interest rates are really hurting farmers as well. And then you have little noticed, I think, by much of the media, but the cancellation of a bunch of food aid programs that helped these farmers, you know, not just USAID and, you know, foreign aid programs that have been cut off

that US farmers historically have been very supportive of because their crops and their meat products are being used to feed the world. But also here in the United States, you have SNAP getting huge cuts which the administration is bragging about, of course, saying that like they've lifted people off of SNAP. No, they've pushed people off of SNAP that hurts farmers. And then a lot of other like more niche programs related to school lunches and other kinds of domestic food assistance programs

that historically have supported farmers and have given them a little more cushion,

not policy driven, things like droughts, which we're also dealing with in parts of the country right now.

So all of these things have tremendously hurt farmers, which, as you point out, is historically one of Trump's core constituencies. And then of course, the war, right? The war has accelerated all of this stuff, higher diesel prices, higher fertilizer prices, everything has gotten more expensive.

“So I think that's why you've seen a number of these kind of sub stories or whatever.”

You know, this genre of news story where you have farmers saying I thought he was going to help us and then he didn't help us and he's done all of these things and why can't he look out for us. And it's really hard to know how much of it is about him not understanding the impact of his policies and his just total indifference to the impact of his policies. Not caring. I think not giving a fuck about them actually. Is that, no, I was going to be in this dream doge. There's a farmer north Louisiana that cold called me, kind of through a friend, just trying to get attention on this.

And it was, they did the kind of like healthy greens for the local schools, right? Like that food program, right? Like the, you know, lettuces or like grown in Louisiana that didn't have, you know, this is not my area of expertise but didn't have all the nonsense that the mass market lettuces have. And like in addition to that, you know, there's less travel. So it's fresher, right? And that program was canceled. You're just like, it was my, I was like half the far.

I thought that was what our food was going to. And instead, now the school kids are giving, you know, whatever iceberg lettuces sent in from Nebraska. And it's like this is crazy. So anyway, that's out. And then this week we had the beef thing also on top of that, where Chuck talked about lowering tariffs again on beef to help beef prices down to get more foreign beef in. But the domestic farmers were like, what the fuck?

Thank you, keep you, keep screwing us left and right. And so he kind of backed off that. So I don't, they're in a bad way on this. I think that food prices are going up in and farm countries bad off anything else. We're missing out there and econ, we're all two young people know about.

Um, I don't know. I'm sure there's stuff we're missing because there's always stuff we're missing.

All right. We're doing our best. You send the tips to Katherine Rampell. The receipts newsletter out tonight will be more on Kevin Wars. Okay. Actually, can I make one call out? Yeah, I am working on a piece about the tariff refunds that are being issued. They've started trickling out.

And I want to hear from people who have applied for them, who are considering applying for them or who are afraid to apply for them because they're worried about. Retaliation, I want to hear your stories because I'm trying to get a sense of how it's going out there.

“All right. So if you want to send a tip to Katherine on that or if there are any other tips, things you should know about us.”

We have a tip behind the board.com/tips. So go check that out. Um, Katherine, appreciate you very much. Everybody subscribe to the receipts newsletter. We have a million subscribers now. Email subscribers on the board because I'm not crazy. That's awesome.

We appreciate all you guys and up next. Countdown of Reckers See. And we're back. He's a Democrat representing California's 42nd congressional district. He's a ranking member of the oversight committee and has been part of the effort to force the Trump administration to release the obscene files that's Robert Garcia.

What's up, man? Good to see you again. Good to see you. Ben a minute. In a minute, we had you at the free-on-dree event. That was a win.

That was a huge win. See cut. Nobody's in sea cut right now. I mean, we-- I mean, they're El Salvador.

Yeah, we can only do so much. Yeah, that's right. I'm just a man in America. But none of the folks that we sent there are still there. People don't talk about that stuff anymore.

“I think it was kind of like Minnesota for me.”

An example of aggressive resistance can work, actually. And there's a lot of stuff to be upset about. There's a lot of frustrating stuff. But I do think it was kind of an early sign that if he was pushed back against that there actually are lovers

to put pressure against this administration, even though they've, you know, have control of DC. Yeah, and I think also it shows that if you actually fight and like take action and be aggressive, you can get some stuff done or bring attention to issues.

And I think going down there, whether it was for Kilmerbrook Garcia, for Andrea, of course. I mean, elevating his story.

It was the first time that folks are at the State Department

and heard his even his story. It was important. And we're looking, and he's actually doing fine now.

I've actually talked to him since. I know you've talked to him since. So I know that he, he'd love to come to you. He would love to come here to the US. And which has been great.

Hope, maybe 29. Maybe 20 29. We'll get to that in a minute. The other example that, as I mentioned, that you were spearheading on,

where push back against the administration has been effective. And maybe not, maybe we haven't gotten everything that we wanted. But you've seen the differences on Epstein. Earlier this week, you were in West Palm Beach. Getting testimony from Epstein victims.

“Talk about that hearing and, you know, what else is ahead?”

Yeah. I mean, look, I think first, the Epstein case is, it is a single largest government cover up in modern American history. Number one. This is a single largest international sex trafficking ring.

We think in, in, in modern American history as well. So the issue is threatened center. I think in, in the public. It's also Donald Trump's most unpopular issue. It's by partisan Republicans and Democrats agree.

Everyone agrees that this is a big issue. People got to be engaged.

The reality is is that there has been a huge cover up going on

being directed by this White House. And failures going back multiple administrations. Like, I put a lot of blame also on Merrick Garland, for example. Like, why the hell weren't we prosecuting folks? Why was information out during the, during that administration?

But now we're at a point where the current president has called us a hoax. The Attorney General former, a G. Pan-Bondian, the current one, have wanted to move on for months and months. And the survivors have yet to receive justice. There have been co-conspirators.

There have been other men that have caused the abuse. And there's been no convictions as well. And so we're trying to highlight the stories of the survivors. You've tried to work when possible. And by partisan way to get support for subpoenas.

Even in the majority, we have fought really hard. It'd been really aggressive. And we've gone information. I mean, the only reason why you've had, those emails out that got released earlier,

but from Trump and Glenn Maxwell and the only reason to all those photos and videos of the island. And all of those, all the information has been out and and quite frankly, the files that we've seen was because Democrats have fought to get it out.

Even though half of the files are still in the position of the DOJ.

Half, 2.5 million documents at minimum.

And so this is not a nation that's going to go away. And we're going to push it all the way until we get justice for the survivors. The Democrats and Thomas Massey. He's got a primary next week. Thomas Thomas is a huge, absolutely.

Well, and look and credit to some of the Republican women. Nancy Mace, Lauren Bobert, Anniple and Aluna. While I've disagree with him on almost everything, have actually been quite good on this issue. The one frustrating thing about, and maybe this is part of the other documents that they have.

But I do think the one thing that, from those of us in the outside are wondering is, it still seems like there's a death of co-conspirator information. Like we know what Jeffrey Epstein was doing, maybe not everything. But like, you know, we know what going Maxwell was doing.

Overseas have been some examples, Prince Andrew, etc. But there really hasn't been any kind of big breakthroughs or accountability about other co-conspirators who were sexually abused in girls. What do you think, what do you make about? I think that is partly true.

“I think one is, we can't know the full story.”

Until we get all of the files. I think one thing that the Donald Trump has been saying and he's told us to other members in Margetele Green recently said it as well is that if all the files get released, a lot of his friends are going to get in trouble.

And he doesn't want to see his friends go through this. Well, some of these friends are, are to likely, these co-conspirators and refokes that actually raped and abused women and children. And so, we have to get to the bottom of that.

You cannot complete an investigation when over half of your evidence is still in the possession of the DOJ. And of the evidence that they've released in the current files, some of those names are still redacted and that we haven't had access to.

And so, when you're redacting the names of co-conspirators of men that possibly committed the harm and you don't give a shit about exposing the women and the survivors and doxing them and putting their names out there so that they're actually in danger, that's a problem.

And so, there's still a lot of work to do. And look, we know and we have heard of certain folks that could have been involved, but the evidence, and to actually build that evidence, is ongoing. Yeah.

Has it written anything, as you were reviewing the files, going through all this? What was the thing that shocked you the most?

“I mean, honestly, what has shocked me the most”

is that the level of effort by our government, is current and former to not aggressively prosecute anyone or conduct through investigations. So, I'll give you an example. Folks like Leswexer, the who was, of course,

FC's chief, you know, fan and seer benefactor, his former attorney and his former accountant, Darren Indy, Richard Conne,

those three have never once interviewed

The FBI or the DOJ over the last few decades, not once. And it's not just them, it's multiple other folks.

So, for the very first time,

we are interviewing these key figures. The oversight committee is not law enforcement, but a congressional committee in trying to put this investigation together. The folks who should have been interviewing these people were the FBI, were the Department of Justice,

were the local police departments, but no one did anything. And so that part to me has been stunning and clearly points to a cover-up of where folks were pulling strings to ensure that people weren't being interviewed

and that the truth wouldn't get out.

“So, that part has been, I think, the most surprising.”

The second one I'll say is, all signs point back to Alex Acosta. And I think what people don't realize is, when the 2008 sweetheart deal happened with Jeffrey Epstein, which was essentially given to him by Alex Acosta.

numerous prosecutors in Florida had gone to Acosta and said, look, we have evidence to go after strong federal charges. We have evidence to go after co-conspirators. There's a lot here for whatever reason. Alex Acosta makes a decision to say,

"We're not going to do any of that." And instead, we're going to give Epstein this slap on the wrist. He serves less than a year, and has his own house arrest. And he gets to walk around.

He's basically not in prison.

I mean, it's basically a fake conviction, and then he goes on to continue to rape and abuse women and children. And he begins this international sex trafficking ring post 2008, what he's bringing in women from Eastern Europe and other places, and this only happens because Alex Acosta

chooses to essentially not listen to the prosecutors in his own office. So the question is, why did Alex Acosta do this? Did anyone direct Alex Acosta? And then of course, Alex Acosta goes on

to become Donald Trump's labor secretary. And so I think those two things-- It's kind of ominous to say, "Did anyone direct like who do you have someone in mind?"

“I mean, look, I think there's a lot I suspect”

that this investigation has so many layers. There's so much money involved here. So many people were clearly engaged at the highest levels of government. When you have the monarchy and you have, you know, former princes engaged,

this is at a very high level of influence in people that are involved in this investigation. We might come back to this when I talked about what's ahead in 2007, but we've got little new stuff first. So there's a war powers vote coming up probably today

in the house on the Iran War, even though it failed in the Senate. Thanks to our friend John Fatterman, who voted with the Republicans to continue to give Trump these war powers. I guess I'm just wondering at the broadest level

before we get to the politics, like what's your sense for how the war's going? Terribly. I mean, what are we doing? There's no mission.

There's no outcome. We call it a war, then we don't. That's an attack, then it's not. We have--there's no real consistency with going on, as you lay to the straight of her moves.

Our international allies are all over the place. We're being condemned by folks that should be working with us. There's no end in sight. I have no idea what's going on from day-to-day. There's really no briefings happening to the Congress.

And so it's been going to.

And we're spending what a billion dollars a day to do what.

The same--exactly, the same family is still in power. And when you talk to folks, look, I even--even when you talk to a Iranian-American or folks that are here, and I have a large group and my community. Even many of them that early on wanted that--that wanted that regime change.

We all did, right? And we're talking about a horrible--a horrible situation. Now, are wondering what the fuck is going on? You are seeing a change when it comes back. A hundred percent.

I mean, when I talk to my Iranian-American community back home, I have seen the shift. I mean, early on, there was strong support. Hoping that there would be some kind of major change. And now you have seen a lot of them going.

A lot of them actually believe. Some of them that they are worse off. Because now, their dreams have been crushed. The idea of rebelling or overthrowing the regime for many now has gone. And so, and we're spending--and lots of months of money.

“So, why aren't we spending that money here to help people back home?”

And so, I think there is--there is no end or mission. And that is a clear problem. You can't imagine how bad it's going that I laughed at myself as if it was a ridiculous question to ask how the war is going. So, it's just so obviously going terribly.

And I do wonder-- I've been almost surprised a little bit that there hasn't been more pressure on your Republican colleagues from their home districts to start to push back on this.

The Senate, I expect we'll be close to a party line vote today and the House will see.

“But, like, what is your sense for your Republican colleagues about why they're going along with us?”

They can't even offer a plausible argument for what's happening. Look, I think it's supportive Donald Trump. I think they just wanted to support the President. I mean, I think many of them are also wondering what we're doing. But they have decided to essentially, you know, march lockstep with the President on everything.

Look, and now I think back home, it's a different story. I think you're starting to see folks within the party and the base and Republicans back home going, what are we doing? My gas is still six bucks a gallon, like it isn't California. I'm not-- I don't-- I'm not getting any more money from the government.

Where the hell is no tax on tips? Where the hell is my-- my check I was getting from Donald Trump?

I mean, they're not safe or I wasn't scared of her on in the first place.

Exactly right. And why are we launching all these foreign wars when you said you're going to be the President of peace or whatever the hell we're calling himself? So I think that there is a clear break that's happening at the base level. But it has not yet reached the Congress.

Here's my political question for you on the Democratic side about this. And feel free to tell me that I'm wrong, but when you took over the oversight committee, I noticed that there was a big change in the level of aggression and oversight. And Kudos to you, particularly on immigration and ICE issues and Epstein. I was like, we know that Garcia and Connor are the guys that are going after the Epstein files

that are doing oversight. They're on their-- in the media, they're on social media, they're pushing this. Given the scale of the disaster of the Iran war, like the Democratic response has felt a little tepid to me. It's like, whoop.

I can't be like-- if I was a Democratic house member, I would be essentially Cindy Sheen during the Iraq War. You remember her? I think she was outside but W's house? I feel like I would be outside Jared Kushner's house.

There's something with a bullhorn screaming. It is an insane war. The economic damage that's happening to Americans is only going to increase. And I just wonder, like, do you feel that? Like that there's maybe not as much fight as you might expect,

or do you have a suggestion for a good person,

“who might be the Robert Garcia of the Iran War within your caucus?”

Look, I think there's so much horror happening at once that I think folks are trying to push back and ways that they can.

I understand, first of all, the anger.

I am of the belief that we should be angry about everything. Sure. Not just obscene and not just ice, but we should be angry about the Iran War.

We should be angry about affordability issues. We should be angry about what's happened with running rights. So all of those issues we should be angry about. I also think that is where it's important to bring in newer folks and when I got elected to the caucus,

I think I was the first sophomore in 100 years to be elected to lead a committee in our party. And I think that tells you that for too long that we have elevated just whoever's next and I think it's really important that

to match the anger that you're seeing, we elect new folks, bring in new ideas, and bring in next generation Democrats. As far as the Iran War, look, I think. I think people are pretty passionate.

They're pretty pessimistic Congress. I hear it. I wish we would be angry.

“I think there's plenty of opportunity for us”

to push back even harder. Get out on Fox. I don't know. If you have some congressional buddies who are looking to make a name for themselves.

I do think this is a moment. And I say this, I kind of cheekly, but have you ever done the Pears Morgan? Are you in the show? Have you ever done the Jerry Springer Pears Morgan?

I've never done Pears Morgan.

I've never done Pears Morgan. I've never done Pears Morgan. I've never done Pears Morgan. I've never done Pears Morgan. I've never done Pears Morgan.

I've never done Pears Morgan. But when Trump is the weakest, because that's when it's the most fun, when he's done something particularly stupid, because it's like I know that the other people on the food fight aren't going to be able to put forth a compelling counter argument.

And I felt like this is the moment for that fight the last month. Maybe Fox won't have Democrats on right now. I don't know. But like, I do feel like it's the moment to kind of go into maga territory.

And make the case. You don't have to be condescending about it or a dick about it. Go in there and just say, hey, he's betraying you. And this crisis is going to get worse. And anyway, that's not really a question.

It's more of a comment than a question. Okay. Tell your colleagues, get out there, do best. I think I've been fucked a few times. We're going to continue to do that.

But I think we actually have, I think some of our best communicators have some of their best moments on Fox. Yeah. Jason Crow has been on. Jason Crow.

Jason Crow is, Jason Crow is actually somewhere I think in our caucus. And he's an excellent communicator. And because he's a veteran also, he brings you a really great perspective. I think we got a lot more of those folks in the Congress and we should encourage that to upload them.

We should encourage those folks to upload them.

And we should encourage those folks to upload them. And we should encourage those folks to upload them. And we should encourage those folks to upload them. And we should encourage those folks to upload them. And we should encourage those folks to upload them.

And we should encourage those folks to upload them. And we should encourage those folks to upload them. And we should encourage those folks to upload them. And we should encourage those folks to upload them. And we should encourage those folks to upload them.

And we should encourage those folks to upload them. Now, after that ruling, after the ruling in Virginia,

“I think the Democrats are still favored.”

I think you guys are still favored to take back the house, but it doesn't feel like a guarantee. And I'm wondering what the feeling is among your colleagues. I think that is about the feeling. I mean, look, I think we, if we, we file a call, we're going to win.

And I think that that the leader is mapping out a path to victory and has. But I think that the attack on voting rights and what's happening right now with redistricting is incredibly serious. And I've said this often, but the response from our state and our governor should have been that level of action.

Should have happened everywhere immediately. And that level of intensity. And I don't think we saw it everywhere.

And I, I, Republicans are always going to have that level of intensity.

They're always going to push hard. Go all the way. We're seeing what's happening now again in South Carolina. I mean, they're, they are pushing. And so I, I think we are going to win the majority.

“I think it's going to be hard and a big fight.”

And I think that redistricting makes it infinitely more difficult. And I also worry about not just redistricting this year, but in 28. Because whatever they don't do in 26, you're going to do in 28. And so we've got to make sure that when we win the house, this fall that we hold because at the, at the end of the day, we're going to pass a lot of great policy.

Hopefully something we can get through when we're in the house. Are we going to have the Senate? I hope we have a shot at it. But we need the presidency. In 28, we have got to get to a place where we hold the White House and the Congress.

So we can actually make real change in this country and reverse some of the horrors of Trump. And so what's the answer to that? Is that maximum redistricting in all of the other blue states? Turn Illinois into a computer chip? Or is it trying to find the Thomas Massey of redistricting?

Get some compromise bill pass and it's kind of almost impossible to imagine. Trump signing some sort of anti-Gerrymandering law. So I don't, I don't think there is any other solution that maximum warfare, right? Maximum, I think maximum aggressive warfare has to be it. And it has to also be something coming from the states.

And so, you know, look, when you have had governors in blue states. Not excited about redistricting.

“I think that's a disservice, not just to your state, but to the country and democracy.”

This is, this is like bigger than how we might feel about redistricting. In California, we had an independent commission. I supported it. I don't want to redistrict, but we had to get it done. And so we look at California.

We may have to go back and redistrict. Yeah. And I think-- 51 to 1, baby. Look, and I think that people are prepared to do whatever it takes to stop the Trump agenda.

And to stop what's happening now with the extreme right. So I think we've got to get it done. Speaking of maximum warfare coming from the other side, news out today, JD Vance, and it's so-called fraud commission. And whatever he's doing, he's the frauds are for Democratic frauds.

For fraud. I guess, let me put it this way. He's the frauds are where he looks into fraud unless you've donated to the Donald Trump campaign. And then you get a pardon, actually. Who knows?

You might get honored in the ballroom. But the latest move is like pretty shocking, where they're looking into denying California Medicaid funds because of accusations about Medicaid fraud in California. And I kind of see this as of a piece with the gerrymandering war. Where they are going to step it up even more.

And it's not just that they're going to try to cut out representation in red states. But in blue states, they're going to try to deny citizens that didn't vote for Trump Vance access to services. Well, and I think where Vance and Trump get it wrong is it a lot of the folks that are denying services to actually voted for them.

You can't but oftentimes working class whites in communities that voted for Trump that are some of the highest users of government assistance. And so that is something that I hope folks see that are these kind of Trump voters and communities across the country that they're being impacted. This attack on essentially on healthcare in California is really serious.

And we're talking about people, some of the most working classes that are low in confokes, they need access. This fraud stuff is complete bullshit. Look, any government or private entity, anyone.

Whether it's federal, local private company, you're always fighting fraud in ways always.

There's always going to be mistakes made. There's always going to be some trying to treat the system.

What you shouldn't do is for a small problem that will always exist.

Somehow eliminate and normal amounts of services for people that really need it. The tax on snap, for example, or food assistance. Is there frauds in food assistance? Of course.

Just like there's fraud in any large at Microsoft, or at the largest companies in Trump corporation. In the Trump corporation. A lot of them are there. But you think that they sold cell phones to a bunch of people that never got them.

For example. Yeah.

“I think that this idea that we're going to punish the working poor.”

Because there are shutters out there. I think it's disgusting. Same. Let's say the gavel is taking back. Let's say that there are attempts to fuck with the midterms are unsuccessful.

You're in charge next to you anywhere. There's so much fraud. There's so much corruption. There's so much shit to look into. You know, there's not enough time in the day for you.

I hope that you're not a big sleeper. What's at the top of the list for you? Yeah. Top of the list is a real investigation on Jeffrey Epstein. So we have actually access to all the documents,

subpoenas. And I really having met now so many of the survivors in conversations. One on one in person. I feel very committed to ensuring that there is justice for them. And that there are criminal prosecutions of the men that cause the abuse.

So that's going to be important. And we've got to get the job done there and do right by them. The second one is Trump family corruption. Look, this is the most corrupt administration and family in American history. They're running this like some criminal operation.

The fact that Jared Kushner is, you know, gets two billion dollars from the Saudis

when he walks out of the White House that the Trump boys.

“Do you know, can we just pause and share it for a second?”

Do you know in the last time Jared Kushner testified before Congress was, I googled that this morning. Do you know? No, because it hasn't, I can't even imagine it actually happened. He did, because 2022.

Yeah, it's been a long time. What? I mean, he is taking money from the Saudis. And he's the point person on our diplomacy and the Iran more. And he's on the take from all kinds of interests.

And we don't even know. Like we don't even know where he's getting his money from. We don't know anything. It's crazy that he has some testified in front of Congress. Crazy.

Well, well, and of course, you know, the administration would argue that he doesn't, he doesn't have an official government job. He's on background acceus as a senior American official. That's right. It's like a government job to me.

Crazy negotiating the end of the Iran more. And benefiting. I mean, getting enormous amounts of money, billions of dollars for this

“investment fund that he runs, who's giving him God knows what?”

Who's giving him the money besides the Saudis? Well, there's been no investment. And by the way, right, the Saudis have actually made zero return on their investment directly. In directly, I'm sure they're they're they're benefiting plenty.

And so the the level of Trump corruption with Kushner, with the Trump Suns who are basically, you know, flying or fly with their dad when he's doing diplomacy. Aaron's going to China. Aaron's going to China.

Well, I'm sure we'll see a Trump hotel there pretty soon as they'll be announced in the next few months. And so the real estate deals are happening. This this crypto scheme, which is like in Sammy, I'm not sure there's ever been a bigger level of corruption by an American president than basically

opening the opening up. There definitely is not. No. I mean, Jeff Carter saw the peanut far. Peanut far.

It's putting up basically this account where infinite amounts of money just get poured in and with no record of who's giving all the money to the president. Still no. And we know some of them because they've gotten part of it.

So we run the, you know, Justin Suns and CZ. I know. And now there's this IRS.

We're going to get this $10 billion from the federal government and the IRS.

It's so the amount of Trump family corruption like to the question is I think, um, key to our work along with like abuses at ice and abuses at HHS and so on. So the, the push back you get is well, they're not going to testify. They're not going to give it anymore.

Epstein files. They don't care. And you're dealing with this right now with question bondy. Whether she's going to testify or not. She's ducking subpoenas.

How do you guys think you're going to address that? Well, that's an stopper from trying really hard, right? And I think what we've shown on the committee is even in the minority. Like we push really hard and we get some shit done. Every subpoena that we've had in front of us, every interview, every piece of

paper in email has been because we have fought. Use public attention. Got the, got the public to join us. And we pulled one or two Republicans where there was mass here, where there was mace or whoever to go along.

And so I think we're going to have to continue that same approach. We're going to make the strong requests. And there's no compliance where I tell the folks is you are going to be in front of us at some point. And either do it voluntarily, do the right thing.

Because when we get to the point where we actually can force that testimony,

And what we're not going to do to one thing.

I like one of my not annoyances, but oftentimes I hear from folks in the party or, you know, whatever, they're going to move on like when we get, when we, when we, and the majority, it's on the move forward. And we're going to have this forward looking agenda. That's fine.

We're going to have a forward looking agenda. But there has to be accountability. And if we just move on and don't spend time actually saying, this shit is actually really fucked up. And we've got to show people that there has to be accountability.

People have to be accountable for the crimes they committed. I don't know if we can move on, either we, this is a moment where there has to be accountability. Great. I love that. There are a couple hundred other members of Congress. They can focus on going forward, and you can have the account.

Trust it. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. That's exactly, I feel as part of our role.

That's good. Here's just one little thing on this for me. Is the, I don't know whether Jared Kushner will come before Don Jr. What they'll do. But they are in business with a lot of people right now.

“And I think that that is what would be my strategy.”

It's like going to Justin Son, going to the companies that have put Don Jr. on the board. And they're going to, they'll, they'll come testify. And, you know, and it's like not to compliment trade goutty. But it's, I mean, it's the Hillary, it's the Benghazi thing. Right?

Like the craziest thing is that like the Jim Comey letter about the, you know, Clinton emails, like a long, long weird string of oversight started at the Benghazi hearings. You know, and so you just don't know what you're going to uncover. And there's going to be a lot of shit for you guys to uncover yourself. Get on it.

And what? Right.

Let's fight about California for a second.

No, watch you go. This governor's racist is a shit show. I'm, it's a total shit show. And I don't understand why we're at even North Katie Porter, I guess. Why don't we start there?

Anybody make the case for why Katie Porter? Well, for first, let me just say, I think that there's a couple of folks that are running that would be good governors. And so Katie was the first person to endorse me when I ran for Congress. My first supporter. We actually shared neighboring communities.

And overlapping, overlapping cities. When I got to Congress, besides being my strongest supporter, she was immediately a mentor on oversight. And when I got to, over at the oversight committee,

“I honestly saw what she was doing and the way she'd grilled CEOs,”

the way she fought really hard. And I tried to model a lot of what I do in oversight, off of what she taught me as a true mentor. And so for me, the decision to support Katie was not hard. But look, I think I've known Secretary Recerra, Tom Stire.

We've got candidates. We're not sure this is a very fluid race who's going to win. At the end of the day, we're going to support whoever the Democratic nominee is. We're going to get behind. I will say about Katie Porter in the,

as recline town hall they had over the weekend. I'll put this link in the show notes. He asked her about about housing stuff. So the biggest issue in California among others. I was pretty impressed with her answer.

A little less so. Have you ever Sarah? And I like the Mayor of San Jose. But my issue with all of you. Can you let you like Matt?

Yeah, I like Matt too. Look, I think I know that some of my party have problems with Matt. He, he is a good mayor. I was mayor of my community. I don't know what I mean.

I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that.

I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that.

I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that.

I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that.

I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that.

I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that.

I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that.

I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that.

I'm not sure if I'm going to say that.

“But it's a lot of baggage in your state.”

What's your push back on that? I disagree with some of that.

First, a lot of the issues that have existed for decades.

Anyone running for governor should want to make change. Sure. So I agree with that. For example, even constructing a railway for 18 years. So that's been happening for a long time.

That's been happening for a long time. You have a couple of tracks there. And having the single largest state in the country, you're going to have oversized challenges.

we have we have failed has been on housing on housing.

We have pushed hard, but it's not only in California, and issue of the governor. We've had cities. We've had the legislature. We've had the counties that have all,

essentially, created this nimbly system. We haven't produced enough housing. And so the governor has pushed, and I actually credit the governor for going after cities that have actually not produced enough housing.

He has insured that the economy in California is a strong.

“He has pushed, I think, bold progressive ideas.”

I think he has actually been an excellent governor. I think he'll be an excellent candidate for president if he runs. You're smiling. This is my, this is what I believe is.

And at the end of the day, the thing I love about our governor is he is obsessed with winning. And he has won every fucking election. I like that too. He pushes really hard against the legislature.

He's independent. And he is really smart. And he's not just out there pushing ideas. Because you know, this group or that group. He, he believes something and he pushes really, really hard.

And he wants to win. Look at redistricting. How many governors, oh, name them, zero. And this country on the Democratic side did what he did. Because he, he's obsessed.

He's obsessed with winning for the American public for California. And I, I have over time learned to, I just really respect him to be honest. And he's a great governor. And we'll see what happens with the presidential.

Total shoutout to him on that. I was just, like, just using as a progressive coded issue as an example. I saw this chart this week, where Texas has passed California in production of, like, solar. And green energy stuff.

Because there's, because the Nimbias, I'm isn't just about the houses. It's about building other things. And it's just, like, the blue state can't build green energy. And if working class people can't afford to live in a blue state,

then, like, something's wrong in the blue state. And we don't disagree with the government. I don't disagree with you.

“So, and I think, and I think the governor will say this as well.”

Our biggest challenge has been housing production. And we, the burden that we have put on housing production, which is not just the government, but you have a legislature. We have allowed, unfortunately, our love of being an environmental leader in many cases to this stifle housing production.

The reality is it's just too expensive to build housing in California.

And our land use policy is completely fucked up. We don't allow enough housing. It's not dense enough. We don't invest enough in transit. And so, those that have been our biggest issue in California

is when we have, we have to continue to fix. Do you get to have any fun? I don't know. Do you get to go to Hunters and Palm Springs or Hamburg or Mary's and Long Beach? I do.

Do you get to Hunters? I've been to Hunters in Palm Springs. Yeah, it's not like Palm Springs isn't real. Yeah, Palm Springs isn't my go-to spot. But, you know, I went there for my buddy's 40th.

Oh, about a year ago? We had a good time. I don't know. What don't you, are you doing anything? Are you getting out?

California is beautiful. California is beautiful, you know? Yeah. You're doing anything. Are you just sitting at your computer?

No. What the oversight? What are we going to do? And maybe that might be the right answer for you. I do actually most of the time sitting around what we're doing over there.

“But I also think it's important that we're regular people and we do fun things.”

And of course, I try to do fun things. Long Beach Pride's coming up just a few days. And so I'll be there and I'll be here soon. I'll be there and I'll be here soon. I'll be there soon.

I'm going to be there soon. My favorite keeper in Long Beach for a long time has been a place called the Sweetwater. Okay. It's a little neighborhood bar on Broadway in the neighborhood. Great place.

Jukebox, old school vibes.

It's probably my first spot.

I'll check it out. Robert Garcia, thanks for coming back to office. All right. I appreciate you very much. Thank you. All right. How good was that? Thanks so much to my colleague, Catherine and Pele and the congressman, Robert Garcia.

We'll be back tomorrow. I'll be back in my home studio. Hope to see you all then. I'll be back tomorrow. I'll be back in my home studio.

I'll be back in my home studio. I'll be back in my home studio. I'll be back in my home studio. I'll be back in my home studio. I'll be back in my home studio.

I'll be back in my home studio. I'll be back in my home studio. I'll be back in my home studio. I'll be back in my home studio. I'll be back in my home studio.

I'll be back in my home studio. I'll be back in my home studio. I'll be back in my home studio. I'll be back in my home studio. I'll be back in my home studio.

I'll be back in my home studio. I'll be back in my home studio. I'll be back in my home studio. I'll be back in my home studio. I'll be back in my home studio.

I'll be back in my home studio. I'll be back in my home studio. I'll be back in my home studio. I'll be back in my home studio. I'll be back in my home studio.

I'll be back in my home studio. I'll be back in my home studio. I'll be back in my home studio. I'll be back in my home studio.