Kara Swisher: The Tech Bros Should Just Shut Up

Now it is time to eat.

The best way to eat is to eat a gratis.

The people who have been in cheese, cheese, cheese. Now to the gratis. Time for 18 years. The coffee and the coffee and the coffee is ready. Only a long time.

A long time to eat. The time for the gratis and cheese. Hello, welcome to the Bohr Talkcast. I'm your host Tim Miller. I'd like to welcome back to the show, Cohost of pivot.

Host of on with Kara Swisher, creator of the CNN original series. Kara Swisher wants to live forever. The only person producing more content than me. It's Kara Swisher.

I know. We are funny that way, aren't we? We are. We are. We should do less, probably.

We should know. No more. No more. Yes. I don't feel like there is enough of us out there. I agree with that.

Yeah, JBL is suggesting we do a spin-off podcast about coaching our

children's sports teams.

“I was like, do people want to hear my opinion about everything?”

It is. That's a good one. I was a terrible coach, Tim. You were terrible coach. You're probably good.

It's probably the flip on the gay thing, right? So I thought, well, the outcome wasn't that great this year. So talk to me next year. I felt good. I felt like we were improving throughout the year.

But the end outcome wasn't great. So we'll see how it goes. I feel like it was hurting cats and I didn't like the entire experience. It just wasn't. Yeah.

I don't. I'm surprised because I would have thought the opposite with the lesbian thing. The coach was running circles around me and they used basketball League. I thought she was a lesbian.

My husband just thought she was a sporty straight. So. That's fair confusing these days. I went to the Liberty game over the weekend. And you can't tell.

You can't tell anymore. It's just really hard to tell. I don't know. All right. We've got much to get into.

Obviously, it's all the tech. Yeah. Yeah. I stuff. I wanted to just ask a big picture question to start that.

Because Scott said on your podcast the other day, we're in 1999. And you agreed with that. I thought that was provocative. And I wanted more. And so give us a.

A state of play. We were talking specifically about the SpaceX documents. The SEC documents, which are so bad mathematically speaking. That it calls to mind a lot of stuff that we had previously seen. You know, at the height of the dot com bubble.

Where just everybody was like, yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And most of it was nonsense.

Now that said, out of it came Google. Out of it came Amazon had been troubled at the time. So it doesn't mean that there's not going to be big winners here. It's that there are a lot of stuff that isn't good exists.

“And everything, I think 10% of the stock market.”

Some number is predicated on a small number of companies. And so if one of one of the struts falls out, say, just this week, Uber. The CFO said, we're spending too much money on AI tokens. We don't know the efficacy of it. Like that's a statement.

Like if that, if there's more of those statements for people are like doing all this AI spending and then not finding any good use for it, it just feels like that. The cheerleader. Of course we need my space. Of course we need six search services.

Of course we need whatever it happened to be at the time. That's true. I'm trying to remember. Mary Meaker was backing toys toys. I call on her.

E toys remember there was a bunch of them. And it has that feel. And it doesn't mean it has to happen that way. And I doesn't mean I don't think there's not going to be big companies. It's everything is very fragile.

And when you read that space X thing, you're sort of like, you've got to be kidding me. That people are going to invest in this. And then now index funds have to invest in it. Are forced to.

Yeah, so let's just sit on you on for a second.

Let's try not to do that. That's gross. Yeah. You can do it if that's your preference. That's not my type.

Not really. It kind of like the looks like you're wearing a pillow underneath your shirt. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. It's kind of like the bad guy from minions. This isn't really my luck. But.

Rock, root. Yeah. To each throw on on the IPO. I guess it's about a $2 trillion valuation. Well, maybe just like.

Well, that's what they're going for. I'm through. Like what what is this? I'm like starling seems like a legit business. Sure.

It would be a more rational valuation. Like how how, you know, outlandish isn't. Like in terms of the starling business is really promising. Now, it doesn't need to say that is they're not going to have competitors. And they are, right?

But right now they're far enough of the best product. They're just just about to be incorporated into the American Airlines. So they're doing a lot of cool commercial stuff. They just got a giant pedagon thing. What deserved or not.

They're doing a lot around drones. You know, starling is really is interesting. And that's a part of the business. It's the, it's the communications part of the business.

“And it's attached to SpaceX, which is a rocket company, which is a money furnace, right?”

And it doesn't, it doesn't mean they're not far ahead. And they really, really are. But it doesn't mean people are going to catch up.

So that's, that's another problematic thing.

Now, that's still a promising company, but it's just not making money. And they're way ahead in their products. You know, they keep blowing up rockets. Not necessarily a bad thing. But they're far ahead of most other competitors.

Except for state run enterprises, right? NASA or whatever China's cooking up.

“And then you have they stuck Twitter in there, right?”

And that's supposed to be, it was supposed to be. How's that doing? Not well. But it doesn't matter because what it is is a data play, right? It's a data and infrastructure play.

First they merged Twitter into Grock. I think I'm doing this right. Because it was losing money and then they just hit it. And then everyone let him off the hook and all the other stuff. Because they wanted it to this IPO.

Then the Grock wasn't working out so well. So he sold his compute to anthropic, which is doing well. So now he's renting out his seat corn because his own business. And AI is not working and calling it data infrastructure. Sure. Why not?

Okay. You're just, you're essentially, you couldn't make it work. And so you're selling off your compute for to someone who's making it work.

That's they're getting a billion dollars a month, I think, through 2029 for that.

It's sort of like renting out if you rent a two big enough office for your startup. And you start renting out pieces of it. That's what Scott was comparing it to. So that's another shitty business. And now they're thinking of shoving Tesla in here, which is a business on the decline,

even though the stock stays elevated. It has, it has the Elon part of it in there. And so even though Tesla's business is declining pretty precipitously, without a new product, which their last product was the cyber truck. And we all know how that worked out, not well at all,

largely because it's a shitty product and ugly and just nobody bought them. Except for SpaceX bought cyber trucks. So now there's all this self dealing happening, which is very typical of Elon. He does a lot of these things. What is SpaceX doing with the cyber trucks?

Is it just like sending them up into space?

Or are they using the outside for the--

They need them for things. Who knows? It doesn't matter. This is a board that lets Elon do whatever he wants, right? It doesn't matter. It's a self dealing thing. They don't--they're not doing anything with them. They were sitting on lots. There were pictures of lots full of cyber trucks.

Nobody wanted to buy except for straight men with a middle-age crisis, like a mid-life crisis, who are not going to get dates because of this FYI men. Who could get into the front seat of that car with any dignity on a-- Well, some--they're ladies who might like that, sure. Why not? Right? Like, let me just find this one thing.

Years ago, I said, you know what he's going to do? He's going to shove that in here. He's going to shove that piece of shit in here.

“Because that's what he does. And I got attacked on Twitter, like, "Oh, how dare you? He's a genius."”

And I was like, "I don't care. He shoves shit in places so he can hide it for other things." And that's super precisely what he's doing. Because it makes sense. It also gives them a lot of data, you know, all manner of things. Let me read this SpaceX is like a 2008 mortgage-back security. But instead of an assortment of bad debt from people who aren't going to pay it back,

it's an assortment of Elon's shitty companies. Bad debt from people who aren't going to pay it back. Given an Elon premium, because everything gets no matter what, people mean stock this thing. And so double it. 1.2 trillion. How do you get to two?

And the reason he's merging Tesla and the other is because some of his payoffs, if you can get the market cap up to eight, I think. This gets him up to 3.5 trillion. So merging it helps him get to his payoff is giant payoff. So it's all self-dealing. It's all self-dealing for Elon Musk to get richer.

In the middle of it, some great products in the middle of it. Yeah, and the spoken mirror is in the self-dealing kind of works. Right? Because he's able to get capital to go out and see other cock and Amy stuff. And you know, who knows, like something hits, like Starlink does, and you just perpetuate it. It's not that much of a hit. It's a stock hit that the people seem to buy Tesla,

even if it's declining. And so people are going to buy this. And now that they've had this new SEC trick where it has to immediately pretty immediately within 15 days goes into the NASDAQ index. That means all index funds have to buy it, therefore. Can you explain that to the trick with the new changes?

Well, it used to be they include large IPOs into the NASDAQ index and then index funds are forced to buy them because they have to buy a market basket of stocks. This will go in much faster and with lesser rules. Right? There used to be profitability rules. This is not making money, et cetera, et cetera.

“And so every pension fund, every index fund, you must be an index fund.”

I'm an index fund. They're going to have to buy it. And therefore, our money is being transferred to Elon and his friends. Right? And then they'll cash out. And we have to stay in it because we're in the index funds. And so, open AI is going to take advantage of this.

So, we'll anthropic. They're big giant IPOs. And so, they'll land in here. And the question is, shouldn't there be better standards for what lands into the market basket of stocks that index funds are forced to buy because they're index funds? And so, again, it's another gimmick and it just happened for Elon.

So, good for him. I think it's obviously working for Elon. Maybe not to the degree that he thought in 2024, given, you know, a douche claim doubt, et cetera.

Yeah. The last time you were on, I think I always asked folks who are in tech world

who associate a various degrees with the big tech guys that kind of went from being, you know, basically capitalist Democrats to being all end with Trump is like, how they feel they're dealing with the devil is working. And it's like, it seems a lot worse than it did six months ago. Yeah, because it's working.

I don't think they were ever Democrats. I never agreed. I never, I thought the people below them, certainly, were very liberal. Like the people who work for these companies. But these people, I would say I didn't know they were all-

“No, there was Zuckerberg, you know, in D.C. I think that's work for him.”

And he was, he, he helps whoever helps him. Trump in 16. Right. But he helps him who helps him. Whoever can help them, they go towards. I never, really knew their politics very much.

I liberal or Republican. I, you never heard it. Like it was never an important part of their thing. You know, even Zuckerberg, I, he complained about regulation, but not Democrats in particular. I think Elizabeth Warren sent him around the band.

That's, that's my impression as he was really irritated by her or scared of her, whatever. But I think this is a coin-operated presidency. And they have coins. And they figured it out. Used to be disdainful of politics. Now they're like, oh, it's cheap.

It's cheap to buy. It's cheap to manipulate. It's cheap to hide things. We can use all manner of our power to do so and buy our way in. And I think they just, from a logical point of view, it makes sense. If you have money and they'll do what you want.

You'll get the contract back.

It's a very cheap thing to start a pack of $100 million.

Because you'll get what you want from these, from these politicians. And so to me, it's kind of like, we're in the Jimmy Stewart days. Like that's who's going to win. Is the influence per large? You don't say any of them looking at it.

And thanks God, look what I'm doing. Drop it. And like, geez, he seems pretty erratic. And look what's going on with the broader economy and Iran. And maybe this isn't, this is a risky one. No, I don't think they can.

“I think they actually have become true believers.”

Like you have a David Sachs with all me. You know, the only person who stands out is the anthropic CEO. And the founder who is just with the Pope. And they have a very different point of view. But they left open AI over safety issues.

So this is at the heart of their feelings, right? And so there are quieter people, read Hastings. You know, read often. It's been a lot quieter lately because of the Epstein stuff. Obviously, they've really tried to drag him in a way that he's probably unfair.

And there's quieter ones that are just sort of sitting by the sidelines. But there's no plus if you want a thing. Look at Tim Cook. He showed up with the gold statue and went to the Malani career. Pro's next to Brett Ratner at the Malani premiere.

Did he have to do that? You don't see Sachin Adela do in that? Do you? Like, they're quiet. The ones that are objecting to it. Just like the Republicans.

Suddenly Tom Tellis is a critic. Like. Give me a break. He was before. He was before off the record. But he wasn't.

Now he's all right. How cowardly though. And he even says that it's like, how do you have any dignity as a man by saying that? Which is like the freedom to do that to say that what I think kind of. I call them too late Tom.

And he got real mad about it. But I listen, I'll take it. I'm fine. Go ahead. Be brave.

Here's another one of your old Silicon Valley friends that feels like the deal. It was a pretty good for him. Jeff Bezos was on the stock box the other day. And I just want to play a little clip for you.

When I last interviewed him. Yeah. But two years ago. President Trump had just won. He was not the president yet.

And I'd ask you what you thought of him at the time. And you said that you thought that he had mellow. Mm-hmm. That he was calmer. Yeah.

And I'm curious now. Here we are. Yeah. I still think that. Two years later.

Yeah. We've had lots of. Yeah. What do you think? I think he has.

I mean, I'm comparing him to his first term.

Yeah. And I think he's a more mature, more disciplined version of himself than he was in his first term. Trump has lots of good ideas. And he's done a lot of. He's been right about a lot of things.

“You have to give him credit where credit is due.”

What's happening there? Oh, the whole interview was disingenuous from the get go. That's how these people are. They're so equivocal about everything, right? They're just like, well, in one hand, I'm getting my tax breaks.

The very first line of my book was so it was capitalism after all when they were giving in on immigration. And everyone's like, how can you say that? I was like, because it's money to these people. Like, that's where that, that every decision is made in that way. If you think humanity figures into any of their decision making, you're really naive, right?

It's really about, well, it's not so bad. And probably Bezos is hurting because press criticizes him. That's, you know, he probably mad at press who criticizes him, which is why he's taking his, his, you know, his feelings out on the Washington Post. So, so badly.

But I think, you know, it's not true. It's just not true. You know, he has some good ideas. Well, sure. Yeah, he does.

One or two.

“But it took dismissed the rest of it is just beyond belief.”

More disciplined.

You have to hand it to him.

And the whole thing is for pause. He turns the Washington Post into like a purported. We're going to be for free markets. Yeah. You know, kind of a bee list while a Wall Street Journal editorial board situation.

But it's like, that doesn't Trump. I mean, the type of stuff that Trump is doing, you know, if a Democrat or president was doing, you know, if he was shaking the barn. Yeah, if you're shaking down CEOs and saying, you've got to settle with me on these Cock-a-maming lawsuits or taking positions in companies.

You know, or, or the tariffs or on and on and on. Like, they would be their hair would be. Yes, that's correct. That is correct. They listen.

You assume just because they're rich, they're intelligent in those kind of things. They're intelligent about certain things. By the way, I give it to him.

What amazing things he did at Amazon.

But I don't really want to listen to him talk about the media. He doesn't know what he's talking about. And when he opens his mouth, the sort of hello he lied. Like the issues of the Washington Post were definitely secular. And media companies definitely have to make money.

Thanks for that tip, Jeff. Gosh, I had no idea until that this month. The time seems to make him money. We're making money at the bowl. We're making money.

Right, exactly. One of the things, you know, he was like, well, the Post has to make money. Well, over at the Atlantic, Lorraine Jobs seems to be doing a pretty good job. Or the New York Times seems to be doing a pretty all our independent stuff. They could do a pretty good job.

What he's done is the problems of the Washington Post were entirely created by him. Not the reporters. He kept management in place that didn't react after the first Trump administration and tried to change. He kept that management in place.

He did it. Then he managed to hire an even worse person who drove it even faster into a wall. And then he like repelled reporters and he repelled subscribers. And then he's like, well, you got to make money. Well, it's not, well, this idiot, media owner is me capping everybody.

Every five minutes. And then we'll take accountability for what he's done. I really don't like doing the laundry. So I'm a fan of anything that makes it just a little bit easier. Recently, I've been enjoying laundry sauce.

They have pre-measure detergent pods that are super easy to just pop in the machine and go. And they make your clothes smell great. Laundry sauce is a premium-cented laundry pods that don't just clean your clothes. They elevate them with sense like Australian sandalwood. Italian burgeon mat.

Is that how you said burgeon mat? Who knows? The fancy people among you know how to say it. Or Egyptian rose.

And laundry sauce isn't just about smelling incredible.

It's engineered for performance. These highly concentrated pods are packed with the cleaning power of bio-inscience that obliterate stains. They make your favorite pieces look and feel brand new. For limited time, our listeners get 20% off your entire order.

When you use the code, double work at laundrysauce.com. It's 20% off your order at laundrysauce.com with promo code, double work. Laundry sauce also just made its target. They abuse shop, laundry sauce, and select target stores now. For limited time only, our listeners get 20% off your entire order.

When you use code, double work at laundrysauce.com. It's 20% off your order at laundrysauce.com with promo code, double work. After you purchase, they'll ask you what you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. It's time to make Laundry Day the best day of the week.

I'm sorry to ask you this question because I'm sure you hate it. Because I get sick of getting this question every time I go places.

“Why are the Republican senators doing what they do?”

It is mind-boggling to me. I look at Bezos and it's like, he can do whatever he wants. He has the Barbie dream wedding in Venice. He can own islands. He has a rocket ship.

He can go to the moon if he wants. He can live the man or no one else in history. He has ever lived. He can achieve any dream he ever wants. Yet he feels like he needs to go into NBC and talk about why Donald Trump has gotten more disciplined.

And how we have to hand it to him. It's like, why? Why does he feel like he has to do that? I don't understand. I think all of them need to stop talking. Like that's the issue.

Whoever it happens to be every five minutes they need to say something about things they know nothing about. And what it's really interesting, I almost wrote a piece recently called Why won't they just shut up? Like, you know, girl, keep it to yourself kind of thing or sit down. And they're constantly victims, by the way, because the press is so mean to them. Like what a bunch of babies.

Secondly, you know, they have to tell you what they think about everything. And then they're just ingenuous when they're doing it. It's really, I do appreciate the such and the delos. I have no idea what he's thinking. You know what I mean? Like, I'm sure he's not loving having to, like, bow and scrape.

But, you know, there was a controversy over Mark Cuban last week, which I took Cuban side, because he wants to get lower prices for drugs. You can hate on me all you want, but there's no other way, except through Trump.

“And so if you want to be part of Trump, RX, even though it shouldn't be called Trump, RX,”

we all know that and so does Mark Cuban. He like he said, I'm not going to be a fucking idiot. If you think I'm going to trade politics for cheaper drug prices. And he's not. But everyone is forced into unnatural positions.

And that's what they're like. Yeah, what's the basis trade? He'd be fine. He'd be like the rocket shifts. Yeah, maybe the rocket ships. Maybe he was like that before, too.

A lot of some of these people don't change. Let me just say he was not the happy laughing fool. You know, he wasn't that guy before.

He was always, if you look at the history of Amazon, a son of a bitch.

So, like, you remember, like, there was all those stories about, this thing didn't just come out of nowhere. The culture of that company. Some people change. I have to say, Steve Baumark couldn't be more delightful now.

And he used to scream at me, like, people change both directions. He's yelling about the clippers. I understand that.

“Yeah, this is, I think maybe you're still different.”

Maybe this is why I'm not going to be a trillionaire. But like the idea of that would ever be a situation where in order to get an extra $100 billion, I would have to call a moron big up like this really smart guy. Yeah.

He's so, you don't have to flatter somebody to get money. When I already have the most fucking money in history, I just, I can't wrap my brain about it. Yeah. It's expression is, why do you fuck you money if you don't say fuck you, right?

But I think he likes him. Like, I think he admire him. They like him, each other. I think you might be thinking they're quietly going home and going on a, what an asshole.

I don't think they do that. And they don't think they're an asshole. I think they like him. Yeah. Boy, that's tough to sit on.

I'm there concerns about backlash in their victim culture. There's this interesting parallel right now between what APAC is doing. And the two biggest groups throwing all these money into these primaries is, as APAC and their allies.

So if you throw Israel Americans. Sure. And then then tech probably, AI crypto, etc. And they're both playing huge in primaries. You know, tens of millions of dollars are going in

to get their preferred candidates in Congress. And then flopping around on the ground and crying when you pointed out. Yes. You know, people criticize them.

But it's for me, it's like it's a free country.

“If you want to go and try to put stuages into Congress”

by using your tens of millions of dollars. And it's not as you're allowed to do that. But we're also allowed to notice. And I think that's interesting. I saw you kind of posted without going

to Andreason the other day. But we are. Can't believe money gambling is going on in this casino. Like what? Yeah.

He did the same thing. He's like, what he was pushing was Kevin O'Leary. Mr. Juanville. Okay. So that's name.

Whatever. I don't think he says real name. Sure. Whatever. He one time he came up to Diego's.

Call me Mr. Juanofo. I go, I think I will not. I was like, no. I refuse to call you Mr. Juanofo. It was my little moment in a green room.

A green room victory, I say, which are always sweet victories.

I cherish all my green room victories as well. I love green room victories. I have a bunch of them that I'm very pleased with. And, you know, he's building the status center that is clearly people of the area don't like. So instead of just acknowledging that maybe people don't like it.

Real people. He's got to blame what George Soros or group of secret money people that are funding all this or it's the damn media who concocting a story. People love it here. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

To me, every accusation is a confession with these people. They do that. So they assume everyone else does. And so what if there's a confabulation of organizations that are trying to stop and big deal. There's also real people who care about these things in these areas.

When they use the money, it's fine. When others use the money, it's conspiracy. It's up to something left wing craziness. They're so violent. And when in fact, it's them, they're talking about themselves and doing a lot of tell on themselves.

And that's it. And so when Theresa was like concerning.

Like, if you're so fucking concerned, why did you put together a hundred million dollars

AI fund? Yeah. You're not concerned. You're concerned that they might fight back as what you're concerned about. Where did the balance of power is on that?

I guess as far as, like, there are money versus the blowback. And the blowback that's coming up for them is pretty real.

“I've never seen people turn into movie villains faster, right?”

They're literally a different bond villain. Each of them is a different version. Or if you happen to watch Paw Patrol, all the various villains or the Spider-Man villains. Right? I'm like, oh, look, it's the green, whatever.

Whatever. I don't watch it closely enough, my kids do, but. I'm a no and Paw Patrol. Yeah, I agree. I call it propaganda, but my kids love it.

I don't know what to say. I have no ability to fight Paw Patrol at this moment. It's stupid and go began. You know what they do on Paw Patrol? They make their own messes and then they clean them up and then they celebrate themselves for it.

And I'm like, you made the mess. You cleaned it up. Better mess. Watch it. Right.

So I think one of the things that they want to do is. Like, ruin their reputations. And you see it in polling. AI polling is really devastating. You see kids yelling at speakers, at graduations.

And that's not a small trend is kids really are rejecting this stuff. And so are regular people. They don't like this. And they have a uncomfortable feeling about what's coming.

They tell you you're stupid or that it's cooked up by sorrows or that.

You don't know. The media is convincing you of something that isn't true. And the more they do that, the more I know they know. That we don't like them, right? That most not we, but a lot of people broadly speaking define Elon to be now having been a really interesting innovator.

And someone to look up to. Someone who is is laughable. No matter how rich he gets. It's a big shift though. I'm back in my prior life when I briefly did some Facebook consulting when I was out in the wilderness.

You know, that era of Facebook mid 2010s. If people are booing them at graduations, it would have been an internal panic.

“But I think that thought about everything that we can do.”

How do we improve our image? You know, we want people to see us as a positive force in the world. That was a shareholder era, right? That was right. Now fast forward to now.

They're getting booed. All these guys are getting booed. It commenced addresses. And it seems like they're kind of mad at people for booing them. But they're not even like trying to appeal.

No, they aren't because I think in say Zuckerberg's case. It's like, I tried to be nice. They didn't like me. I was myself. They didn't like me.

And I'm like, well, maybe you're just like a ball and saying, that's really where we are. But I think that's what it is. It's like, why should I bother when no matter what I do, I'm disliked. And that's a personal problem. Think that there are some fables about that.

I don't know how that ends well. (speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language) So other seven AI thing. I just, on the open AI and traffic IPOs.

I just want to kind of how you look at that, compared to what we're saying from Elon. And there's a lot of fallout coming from that. Well, it depends on who you're talking about.

“I mean, I think open AI has a lot more troubles.”

They just finished that trial with the Elon that is still going to be ongoing. And it's just to press his heart failings using his money on them for getting out of it. He wants a piece of it. You know, they're going to have a harder time because their numbers are a little bit more shaky than they used to be.

They focus on consumers. Sam Altman has said a number of things. Again, should not speak. You know, hush, hush. Like, you want to put your finger like say nothing.

You don't think doing the Tucker Carlson podcast was a net positive for the company. I think they should all stop talking. I just, and I hate to say that as a journalist, but enough with, I don't care, every thought that's in their era had. That's going to be a more troubled IPO.

I think, especially because the spectrum of Elon hanging over,

he's always trying to make trouble for them.

Their business has also been, you know, they've had a lot of turn of people. Businesses are less trustworthy than them. Now, anthropic has come up the middle from all of them. And it's build, it looks like a pretty significant business.

Very enterprise heavy, which is smart because enterprises don't turn as much. But I do think they do know that enterprises don't find Claude to be useful or version or whatever product they're selling. They're going to be in trouble, obviously. When people start to make AI spending cuts because now everybody's

into spending on AI. So if there's any cutbacks, they'll suffer first, especially with companies. Right now, it doesn't seem to be the trend. But they're the ones that are building what I consider a more solid business. And they did so quietly.

I think is the rest of them were kind of hand-waving. They just came right up the middle. Their revenues are growing pretty significantly in on a solid basis. But it doesn't mean that it couldn't go poof. And Daria Modi has said that this by the way.

There's this interesting other element to the thought from their IPOs. And I've been starting to read some interesting stories on, which is like, we're going to have this new batch of really rich people that are coming. You can particularly at San Francisco where we once lived. I have a house.

They're still trying to buy it again. Oh yeah, suddenly I have people knocking at my door again. Can we buy your own? Well, I guess that's my question. Well, anybody who is not a multi-millionaire ever be able to live in San Francisco again?

I think that's that ship is sailed in many ways. Although it's but it was a nice respite when they all left. It was really lovely for five seconds. But I don't know. I don't know.

I mean, I just having being a homeowner in San Francisco.

I suddenly, my house suddenly was never went unvaliable.

By the way, it did just fine. I bought a very, I bought it 25 30 years ago, so it's a very different thing. But there was a moment during the first.com bubble that was insane. When you bought a house, you had to write a letter to the house on why you would be a good owner. And which was crazy.

“Like that's how many people were bidding for these houses because of the amount of money.”

And at one point someone made me write a letter, so I wrote Dear House. Here's the fucking money. That's what it's for. Thank you. Like I didn't get the house.

You know, I think, yeah, I think it's a real problem. It's something that Daniel Murray is trying to deal with in terms of where can you do affordable housing?

You don't want to build the same problem that happened the first time because it's going to happen the second time, right? If numbers are gone up in terms of prices and you don't have a city that's diversified in its population, you're going to end up every time there's a boom in a bus. You're going to get screwed, you know, on tax base. And right now it's right now California's up, right?

Suddenly it was down before and everybody moved back as you knew they would. Because living in Austin or Miami isn't the dream. Everybody decided very nice places by the way, but not the same thing as San Francisco. So I don't know.

It's always been, it's always been an issue there.

And it's been said that they can't figure out a way to build affordable housing at the same time. Have the rich people there? And you figure there would be some other kind of effective altruism found comes out of this. Not among rich people. They're all going to keep other money.

They like their houses.

“They, you know, one of the things that I think about a lot is to remember in succession,”

where as they got more and more isolated, they got more and more in these cashier prisons, where they went from their cars to their, to their planes to their houses. And it was so antiseptic, but beautiful. You kind of see a lot of these people, which Scott makes this point a lot. And I think he's correct is they live with a different housing world.

They live with a different help world. They have their own health care. They have their own travel. They have their own blank, blank goes on and on and on. And so increasing numbers of people live like this.

And therefore aren't living with everybody else. And so no, if not if they have the money to live in this highly comfortable cashier prison, I think they'll continue to do so. It's not a way to live. No.

You have to be with other humans. You do. And the pitchforks are coming. They are. They are.

I know already out, but it's going to get worse and worse. They feel it. You can feel they feel it, which is why they're saying more things.

“I'm like, you need to stop talking because you really seem terrible.”

You seem like terrible, tiny, greedy people. And it happened in the guilty age. Look at the history of what happened there. The government eventually shifts around. And we get out of the real corrupt period.

And then, unfortunately, it comes too harsh. A retribution. And that's, of course, my worry is that they're going to, that's going to happen, which is not good for this. Yeah. And the base of the nurse thing in the same interview, where he's talking about how you could tax me more, but it's not going to help the Queen's nurse at all.

It's just like, bro, you could double the salary of every Queen's nurse. You could just decide that you wanted to create the Queen's, you know, nurses. You know, nurses, organization and give them the right to do a cash transfer. And you wouldn't even know who it occurs to. Who just gives money drops 10 million and leaves the room.

Never. Do you hear from McKenzie Scott ever? You do not. You just should do a press release. She very much does not.

She just gives the money to meals on wheels, 70 million dollars. That's going to help a lot of people. Do you think Bayes us would do that without requiring a parade or whatever, putting on one of his cowboy hats and dancing around. And boots that look uncomfortable on him. I don't know.

I don't get it, Tim. I think it's really short-minded. I think they're angry in a lot of ways.

“And I think they do feel no matter what they do, nobody likes them.”

Did none of them have Catholic mothers, I guess, because my mother would be so ashamed of me. But you know, Mark Zucker's parents are lovely. I've met them. They're lovely.

I've never met Jeff Meas.

This is mom. Did they not guilt them, him enough? I don't know. I don't know. I have met Neil on his parents, I feel bad for him.

But in that case, I mean, he's close to his mother, but I think she's terrible person. That's just me. What are you talking about? I'm not talking about them. Some of them are also buying media properties with their fund money.

CNN, you dropped out of it. I haven't. You plan to. Well, I'm on your contract to the end of the year. And I've said, I don't see giving their choices so far.

And today they sort of go of Sharon. I'll sponsor you who I like and regard with great. She's an amazing journalist. She's a 60-minute reporter. She's a 60-minute reporter, right?

She's on CBS. I don't know if she's staying there or whatever. But the fact that someone like this who just had a beef over a story gets jacked for this is seems ridiculous because she's in support. Guess what the role of a journalist is to be is in support and case you're interested.

You know, I just don't see them making editorial decisions. I think are of any, I think they're incompetent. And so I don't really want to work for people like that seem to me to be incompetent.

The politics aside, although the politics is never aside.

Do you have any sense? Sometimes you get, but you know, you show up in all kinds of random places. I do. What's your sense for what their plans are for CNN? I think they're sticking with the plans they've had for CBS.

I don't see any. You know, if you're hoping for their better angels, you're absolutely wrong. No, I'm hurting from practicality. I do think it felt a little bit like the barry bubble.

You know, is, I don't know if it's popped, but it's weakening both just like the just basically incompetence.

I took Tony D, you know, didn't get up, couldn't get a visa, got a China. Yeah, embarrassing things like that. But then also just kind of going all in on the pro-war propaganda when it's been like the most embarrassing and incompetent war imaginable. Sure is.

And so, you know, that's a little bit of ag on her face, you would think. No. One would think, but, you know, I think it all, she's hardly the point, right? People focus on her a lot, but I think she's just the vehicle.

“I think you have to focus on Larry Ellison.”

David is so, I'd very nice guy, but the game is with him with Larry Ellison. Okay, he's the one who made the money. He's the brilliant entrepreneur. He's the technologist. Let's be clear who's running the show here.

And if he likes her, she's staying. That's the way it goes. And I suspect he likes her. And he probably doesn't see the war as that path. He doesn't care.

You know, for him. He doesn't care.

And of course, he's very, for always real.

More than most people. You know, I mean, he's, that's one of his biggest, most important issues. I think it is his most important issue. And so, there you have it. That's why we have.

And so, does he care about Sharon Alfonsi? No. Does he care about 60 minutes? Probably not. Does he care about journalism?

Doubtful. Do you say, well, they even be a CBS evening news at the end of this. There shouldn't be. That's another issue, right? You know, it was like, the media liked to write about these kind of things.

I've show of hands when I was on my pivot tour and you do put tours too. You get a real sense of people. They're great. Yeah. Someone asked the inevitable CBS quit.

Well, it was going to happen here. I'm like, show of hands of who watched CBS news last night. We had a pretty young crowd. You do too, I think. Nobody.

Like, one person.

“Who watched in the past month, who watched CBS news?”

One hand, and maybe goes up. Even if that, by the way. Who cares? Who cares? Because Donald Trump cares.

The Donald Trump lives in the 1980s. So that's why it matters right now. Just like Elon bought Twitter for influence. For influence, not for making money for influence. They're buying it to influence Donald Trump.

But they don't care about the product. They don't care about the reporters. They don't care about journalism. I think David also wants to make nice movies. I do think he cares about that.

I do. But that's about it. You know, right before fun, you get at it. Richard wants to make movies. He loves the movies.

They're so happy for him. Like good. For the Oscars, be backstage. The news business doesn't matter at all to these people. Yeah, I'm more with you on that.

I was wondering if you was in the cool where you're kind of offering that to. Just because the independent media is rising. I'm concerned with the algorithms. I'm concerned about their influence over TikTok. Elon's algorithm a little less so that does dominate a lot of the kind of

the conversation and elite media spaces. You know, YouTube algorithm seems to be fine. But you never know. Like that to me, the algorithm owners, whatever AI thing comes next. I'm a little more concerned about that than I am.

Like the media properties themselves. You should be concerned. It's just what I want to get through to people is get away from the politics. Get away from the nefarious plottery of whatever billionaire you have. Or you want to hate on billionaires.

It's really very simple. They don't care. Like I keep saying that.

I'm like, they think about you never.

They don't think journalism is important. They think it's silly. They're annoyed by certain. Unless somebody says something about them. Could we look what the hell can I buy this?

Yes, why can I buy this and shut them up? And so I know we'd like to think it's part of a big plot. But it's just not. It is, you know, rid me of this irritating priest, right? Rid me.

I do not like this person who's telling me things. And I think down deep, like you said about the pitchforks. Yeah. They know it. That's the worry is they know it.

And they're trying to do anything possible. When the thing they should be doing is being very generous with their money. Building great works.

“Like that's what happened with the old-gilded age people.”

Suddenly Andrew Carnegie built libraries. Suddenly, you know, and maybe that's the outcome of this. Maybe that's where they'll go. But those were hated people for quite a bit of time there. And then they shifted because of the misery they brought on people.

Got to be too much. The other thing you talked about in the call is that you felt you could. And you mentioned this. It's briefly was that you can feel this sense of the shift among your kids. Oh, you know, it took them these products away from, you know, maybe how things would have been 10 years ago.

Right. I'm wondering how you think about that. I know, you know, we really have kind of gone through this period where it did feel like there was all this possibility. And now, I need to answer what it's. I'm not anti the products.

I think now I will do some great things. But like there's just this. There's a range from like skepticism to cynicism to hostility. Just because of how things shook out with the big social media platforms.

The next generation being more hostile to the products gives me a little bit of optimism.

Because the worst case scenario is that they just like rely on them so much to their brains don't develop. Because they just become, you know, an extension of the AI brain.

“I think the problem we have is 30 to 50 year olds, right?”

That's what I guess. Sorry. You know, I know older people too because they got stuck. But they got sucked in by the Fox News of it all, right? So if you want to look for a propaganda vehicle or even the people that are two MS now people, they're a little credit.

You know what I mean? Yeah, sometimes I think that somebody says I watch nine hours of MS now a week or a day. Yeah, I'm like, you know, but maybe cut that in half. Yeah, right. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a playing into whatever you happen to be the Fox people or much.

My mother is one of them, for example. She was super concerned with transfencers recently and I was like, what? I think they're taking over. I'm like, what? Fincing?

Like, you're like, I feel like I'm going to feel okay. Sure, you can't see their faces. What do we care?

Anyway, in any case, I think women vendors are quite almost equal with menfencers too.

Any regardless. I don't know anything. And I don't feel like it's a national crisis. That's how I feel. Well, she was very concerned because it was on Fox.

But I do sense among my kid.

“I have a 21 year old and a 24 year old, just turned 24.”

They use, it's really interesting because they use social media. Very little. And it's not, I don't think they're outliers. Neither did their friends. They're very much more into high gang and group activities and stuff like that.

They use it for information. I watch how they use it. Like, a friend of mine is a sports nut. So we get lots of stats and I see why you would use digital. It's great.

It's really great. Another one's a cooking nut. You know, they like all the cooking. I find that's fine. That's just like I used to buy cooking ice-free gourmet magazine all the time.

Like a lunatic. They don't use social media. And they're, they're moving away from it. They use it for YouTube is television. They watch TV shows for sure on there.

And that's where they get stuff. Netflix. They certainly use quite heavily. But they don't use social media. And they don't like it.

Because at one point I asked my son why he didn't use it. He says it makes me feel bad about myself. And I was like, good reason not to use it. And I feel like there's a fatigue to it. I feel it myself.

I don't know about you. But unless I'm marketing something or I'm watching, you know, I'm very into this one guy who makes who cuts up vegetables and makes plants. That's perfectly enjoyable for me. I don't, I find I don't do all on the dunking as much as I used to.

Because it feels bad. You're good at it. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, it's a, it's probably something I need to spend some time with the therapist on. Because on the one hand, I feel, I, I've,

Doesn't everybody that has a problem to feel this way. I feel like I recognize like the limits and I see issues and other people. It is so intertwined to what I feel like I'm doing. I don't know where how you're consuming. I'm just like consuming so much.

Either other people's pods. And so sometimes long from says listening to me as it's scrolling. But like, I need to get, I can do this every fucking day. So I need to, I need to know what that thing to do. But you used to have magazines and newsletters and stuff.

“So I don't, I think it's just replaced like the cook report.”

Like, I'm sure you're one of those people that got the cook report or, Yeah, of course. You know, new or public, whatever. And so you're replacing something. And that to me is fine.

Like, I don't see that being as a problem. And you're a news how, right? Presumably. So am I. And so that's perfectly fine as far as I'm concerned.

I think the question is, how much do you get sucked up into the performative aspects of it? And I think that's where you feel kind of sick. I'm going to give you my thoughts on Ken Paxton. Well, he's a fucking criminal, right?

Is that, we need to know there. He's a criminal. Well, you're getting the consuming of other people's functions. Stuff, right? Like in trauma.

And, you know, getting some and feedback. Anyway, we should have a longer talk about that.

I want to focus on the most important thing to add.

Being hot. Okay, okay. We're on with Bill Mar. Yeah. Yes.

He said something interesting. He said that you tell you after the show was that some CEO is complaining that GLP ones are making staff less ambitious. Oh, I was intrigued by that. What was that?

I think he just made that up. He just made that up. He made it up from someone. I just, you know, it's the idea that addictive personalities get less addictive on GLP ones, whether it's food.

The food noise or alcohol noise or he was taking it to ambush. You don't want to, you don't want to win quite so much. You're not so hungry. I guess it's around the same idea of hungryness and you're not hungry anymore. I'm not seeing any statistics.

I think he just made it. Honestly, I don't know, in sub. I'm sure someone said it to him. I just don't think it's true. I think GLP ones are miraculous and are proving to be somewhat miraculous.

We'll see, as it's tested, right?

All these things require gold, midstandard testing and a real population. And GLP ones are really deep in the population now in a way that's significant. What about the GLP three? What do you know about that? Because it's like retreat food, retreat food.

“Yes, there's like that's how you get really.”

Among the gaze. The gaze are gone onto peptides. They're very big. What do you know about that? Here's my problem with these.

There's very little proven. I know I had 17 giga. It's going to be like, yeah, wrong about peptides. I feel better on my good for you. I said, let me just to give you something.

Hello, sepsis. Like, I don't know what to tell you, but you're injecting yourself with unproven. Unclear if they're, oh, it's subcutaneous. I'm like, no, no, no. It's danger.

One bad shot in your fucked. And as you all know, because. Gagas tend to like try everything. Like my experience in San Francisco. That was like, let's try it.

You're crushing in the monkey box space. You know, whatever. Yeah, exactly. And so look, it doesn't mean there shouldn't be tests. And there should be.

And there's some promise. But there's no scientific proof. There's just not any, not any, of any significance over time. I'm a gal who loves to like prove something before we just decide to use it.

The other thing is a lot of these peptides are being mixed in China. That they're getting them from.

“You don't know where their provenance is from.”

Could be a lot of impurities. You just don't know where you're getting it from. And so if you're fine with that and if you're interested in possibly of getting steps is go for it. I just don't. I feel like I don't inject myself with things that are the provenance of is questionable.

Yeah. We'll see if some of these things work.

And by the way, one of the takeaways from my show was there's amazing science this morning.

I interviewed the guy who did all the pancreatic cancer stuff around MRNA technology. Amazing stuff happening using both AI and technology and MRNA and GOP. The question is what stuff is sort of nonsense. One stuff is unproven as yet and doesn't mean it won't be. And what stuff really works.

And much of the stuff is you know over time being a gay man. Most of it doesn't work. Yeah. So GOP ones seem like they're working good. Yep.

Wet market GOP three peptides. TVD or a TVD in that. I feel. If you're feeling lucky, I suppose. And I know some people think they feel better.

Great. I don't know. What other things have we learned. The show again. The show again.

The show again. The show again. The show wants to live forever. I like to. I tell them to fix it.

No, don't fix it. Don't fix it. Keep it in. Yeah. Okay.

That's the show. That's it. It's called. Don't watch it. I just want you to tell me the answer to my key question.

Which is, how do I stay handsome for longer without spending as much money as Scott Galloway House? Okay. Well, and, and you know, not everything works. And Scott Galloway tries it.

But he's our little guinea pig. I would say, I hate to tell you. It's a pretty basic thing. Mm-hmm. Tim, have friends and family.

Spend a lot more time with your kids. Spend a lot more time outside. Spend a lot more time doing things. That is challenging to you. That isn't scrolling.

Mm-hmm. Scientifically proven over and over again.

Obviously sleep diet exercise critical.

The O2 Max is a really interesting indicator of health. I'd have a test if you have the money to do it and try to improve your view to Max score. Show's very O2 Max. The O2 Max. The O2 Max.

You put the mask on your face and then you try to raise the way your muscles interact with your heart. It's a real side of a longevity in health. You know, try to do the Mediterranean diet. It's very such basic stuff that doesn't cost anything. And then ultimately the rest of the facial stuff.

I'm going to leave you and Scott to it because I just.

“I can't. If you want to do facial planning. Go for it.”

I just. You know, John love it. Was that his wedding this weekend? The osaltoneus. He was looking at some of her.

He never did. I mean, I think it was a little bit 20 years ago. He first met. He's way handsomeer than he was then. I don't think that's natural.

He's using jail pee once. I think he talks about it before. I think which is great. He's really. Everybody's getting fit.

Everybody also gets you in the mode of taking care of yourself. But it's not. He doesn't doing all interventions. He's doing like diet stuff. And I think, you know, instead of a supplement.

Have a piece of salmon or an avocado. It's no like red light or, you know, nothing. No cheating. No cheating. You did all this.

You got all these like extra limbs and stuff. And you came back. You've nothing. No. There's not doing anything interesting.

Sing a poor basic. Good sleep. Not as much as you think. It's more between 6.4 and 7.8 hours. Try really hard to.

Be with friends and family. Do things that are cognate. Because the cognitive decline is the real. As we know from the current president is the real problematic thing for most people. And so try to do things that are challenging for you.

Kids have kids. Yeah, I'm good on that. Yeah, I'm challenging. I'm having to talk do that. You know, some day, you know, what actually.

Let me give you some. Some day they're going to be able to place every single organ.

Some day they'll be able to replenish your skin.

Pretty naturally.

“Some of the stuff in Korea was pretty cool.”

What they're doing. What largely it's because of their diet and their attitudes is one of the reasons they're so healthy. Well, tick talk on that. I'm not coming as close to the end as the president. You look good.

You look good. Careous Wisher. Thank you.

Well, and there goes to pivot.

Most of honor.

“Careous Wisher and the CNN original series.”

Careous Wisher wants to live forever. Appreciate you very much. We'll see you soon, right? Thanks, Tim.

Everybody else we back tomorrow for another edition of the podcast.

Come on baby, eat the rich. Put the fire on the son of a bitch. Don't listen, don't you give me no switch. Come on baby, eat the rich. Come on baby, eat the rich.

The board podcast is brought to you. Thanks to the work of lead producer Katie Cooper, associate producer Ansley Skipper, and with video editing by Katie Lutz and audio engineering in editing by Jason Brown. I'm Elizabeth Doreco from Chicago, Illinois.

“I'm a bulwark subscriber because I believe in truth.”

I believe in honesty and I believe in integrity. The bulwark has been a beacon for me in very troubled times to uphold the values of liberal democracy that I hold dear. And it helps me fight. And it helps me understand the present moment and take action to ensure

the future. Join because the bulwark is not run by a bunch of oligarchs. You are supporting people who are dedicated to the notion of a free press as a bulwark against tyranny. Join the bulwark community as a bulwark plus member.

Right now, you can access everything on the bulwark's website for 50% off your membership for the next year. Head over to the bulwark.com/sanity. That's the bulwark.com/sanity. sanity.