Krystal Ball: The MAGA Neocon Tears Are So Sad

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Hello, welcome to the Ballard Podcast. I'm your host Tim Miller, delighted to welcome to the show, co-host of Breaking Points, and Crystal Kyle and friends, somebody that's been long overdue to have on the pod to be honest.

“Someone who's, I think, career bio should mention a pretty important turn on the cycle.”

One of my favorite afternoon MSNBC shows, it's Crystal Kyle. You were a cycle, watcher? I loved the cycle. We had fun, it was a more interesting time. It was you, it was Turei, it was Ari Melber, my old little Abby Hunksman was on.

That's right. So originally, the original crew was, instead of Abby and Ari, it was Steve Kornaki, who got hold very quickly to replace Chris Hayes on his weekend show, originally, and then Chris Hayes went to prime time. And S.C. Cup, and then she knew CNN, Abby, came in and said, "That's right. I watched you."

Well, I feel like you guys were ahead of your time. You know, it was some like a little header of docs arguing kind of show. I don't know, I feel like MSNBC could should probably bring something like the cycle back. Rachel Cutler had been listening to me, MSN now, it's called out. All right, we're going to do some news.

We're going to do some victory laps, and then maybe we'll have shots on the screen. We'll have a couple of disagreements, maybe we'll have some news on that. All right, on the news front, this morning Trump has canceled the nomination hearing for Jay Clayton, who he had nominated to be the head of DNI. This is not traditional, usually the Senate Majority Leader gets to decide the scheduling

on what happens on the hill for these sorts of nominations. But Trump has mad at John Thune and the other senators for being mean to him about the year-on-law stuff that are mad because they were mean to him about the bill-pulti nomination.

And so you basically said, FU, I'm going to pull back the Jay Clayton nomination.

We aren't going to make bill-pulti the acting, DNI, and you guys can suck it basically. So that's the state of affairs. Yeah, bill-pulti is a genuinely nefarious character, who's been at the scene of many Trump error crimes, including using supposed mortgage fraud allegations to go after Trump opponents. And he's also, of course, completely unqualified for the post of Director of National Intelligence.

So it makes sense that Trump would want him there because he's first and foremost a toti and a loyalist who would have no business anywhere in any administration other than this one, where basically sick of them see and your ass kissing abilities. An ability to stir up trouble for Trump opponents is the top and primary qualification. Yeah.

“I think that that is a particularly nefarious place to put up as Director of National Intelligence.”

Of course. And Trump's bleat was like the magma carda explaining this and he's like giving all kinds of... I had a lot of trouble following that. Yeah, I'm giving lots of cock and baby reasons. It's not worth going into.

So you have to do some criminology. And I'm unsure whether Trump is just absolutely committed to having bill-pulti in there for a little bit. So he can cause trouble or whether this is like Trump the toddler lashing out at Senate Republicans. Because they have been not showing a ton of spine but bucking him somewhat both on the Pulti nomination and you know some commentary on the emerging arondial.

The one thing that happened basically was that Pfizer had expired last week.

And there's a bipartisan group of senators. So it's just like basically we're not going to reauthorize Pfizer with bill-pulti running the DNI. You can't trust this person with these kinds of powers. There's interesting sublots to that. So Trump is now saying is like no Pfizer without the Save Act.

And I'm not going to give you a responsible DNI. And you know at some level I kind of wonder if the crystal ball faction of the Democratic Party look at this and are kind of like, "Okay, bro, fine. No Pfizer. That's fine. Do you know?" No Pfizer. No Save America Act. Yeah, we'll take it. I mean, the consequences for potential election rigging are unsettling.

That they weren't going to deliver any mail-in ballots for states that refused to turn over their voter rolls to the federal government.

“So in attempt to bully states, many of them are already in litigation against the federal government saying no.”

We don't have to turn over our voter rolls to you. So there's a lot of shenanigans going on. And you know, with Tulsi Gabbard showing up in Fulton County and doing that whole. Whatever that was, you know, he's been involving the intelligence community in whatever they're trying to do to tilt the playing field in the midterm election. So assembly unsettling from that perspective, because certainly Bill Polti has absolutely no scruples or morals whatsoever.

You know, on the political side, it's kind of interesting. Trump has successfully taken out a few Senate Republican senators who crossed him in mild ways. Cassidy is now a lame dot Tom Tillis is now a lame doc. So you've got a handful.

Corners, we barely even crossed him.

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. But Cassidy, too, barely crossed him and voted for our FK junior even though we clearly had a lot of reluctance Raman in any case. So you've got a few now who either are in very difficult contests like Susan Collins up in Maine or they're on their way out.

So they're in kind of a potential yellow mode. So he may not have as much hold and compliance from the Senate Republicans as he used to. Now the vast majority of them are going to continue to kiss his ass, do whatever he wants and embarrass and humiliate themselves in all the way that's that are required in the Republican party these days. But there might be a slight degree more of descent that there was previously. And that also ties in with the fact that he is just like dismally unpopular on every level and especially on economic issues.

You also have Mitch McConnell who is like literally dying in the Senate right now and. Is he out of the hospital? Yeah, what is going on with him? And he's been in a he's been a wheelchair. I feel like there's been kind of not a lot of coverage of it.

Like we're a little bit into dying fine steam territory for some reason. I don't know.

“I think he'll reporters don't want to embarrass them or something.”

But yeah, I mean, according to Joe Pertica and our guy in hell, he's been going around in wheelchair for a couple weeks now and he's got really bad. All the stuff that he's doing Trump's hands that is kind of mild. You know, like he's got discoloration and his legs and his hands and that seems not good. You remember when he had what two different instances where he would just freeze on camera and then they were like, no, he's fine. So like I don't think so.

I don't think that's a fine healthy thing to do. But yeah, I mean, it's crazy that you do have.

Think of God that you know, you guys and drop site TMC now or on Capitol Hill and you don't follow these rules of decorum, which are really just meant to protect powerful people because.

Yeah, the American people have a right to know whether they're representatives are like with it cognitively and doing anything able to, you know, understand the issues and cast votes and show for work. You still got this this Tom King character in New Jersey Republican congressman, who's been absent for months. Completely missing one his primary. Well, completely missing an action zero transparency one of his eight said something something ominous like where Tom is there's no camera as that's the most that we've heard about it.

So I don't know what's going on there. Yeah, that one is wild. There's a really good like sub stack of a guy who went to some island off of Connecticut where he heard Tom King was and it's like only a rich person's island.

“I think he can find him anyway, Tom King still missing. I want to go to the Trump corruption stuff and we can get some giggles about and you know.”

Even though it's 13 million hours of our money, we can still kind of laugh about it that the reflecting cool. The beautiful blue reflecting cool that we had a full renovation on because Mr Trump wanted it to look nice and pretty for his birthday party and for the 250 celebration. It was blue for like 36 hours and now the algae is back and you know if you put a still water. Large pool in the middle of a swamp. This is going to happen, you know.

It wasn't that the past presidents didn't try to make the park pretty because they loved the green pool. It's just like I live in Louisiana. It's like this is what it looks like if you have stagnant water sitting somewhere. So the pool is now green again. We had our guy Brendan was down there yesterday. They're dumping hydrogen peroxide in there.

I mean, this doesn't really matter in the grand scale things of all the other stuff. But it's related to his corruption and waste and megalomania. So I guess there's that. Completely. Now it's a perfect like little mini emblem.

Not to mention the like, oh, you're going to drain the swamp jokes right themselves. They're almost too cliche to even bring up like you literally filled the swamp. Congratulations because you take something that was again very minor in the scheme of things. But was a problem, like the collecting pool had an issue. Trump because of the color that he painted it and insisted on painting it without asking anyone for advice on like,

Makes it worse. So take something that's a problem. Make it way worse. And then you throw a sprinkle little corruption on top of it. Let me make sure it's in no bid contract.

And I've had the margins and give it to a friend so that they can, you know, participate in this whole thing. And then of course the the narcissism of how a lot of his primary focus is on these projects that, you know, physical building projects so that he can leave his imprint his mark on the world like a dog pissing on their territory. You know, whether it's that, whether it's the ball room, whether it's the arc to Trump.

“And even I think it ties in with his whole approach to Iran.”

How he decided to enter into this illegal immoral disastrous war in the first place. Because he wanted to be the guy who did the thing on Iran. And now, you know, coming out of it, I think he probably has persuaded on the other side. Oh, you're going to be the one that leaves this legacy of peace in the Middle East, which is how his dopey vice president is selling it. And the other part that he wanted it done in time for the birthday party and time for the 250 celebration, which is now Trump rally.

How are you processing and handling that? The idea that he's just like the 250th anniversary of America as a Trump rally is breaking points even going to cover it. Does breaking points even like America, I guess? I mean, no, I meant the actual day, the celebration. Are you just going to check it out?

You might not be offended, because you're like who cares? Actually, you weren't that excited about it in the first place. I don't know. Myself, I won't speak for everybody at breaking points. I love the ideals of America, right?

The, you know, the rights, the freedom, the pluralism.

You know, watching the World Cup or watching the Olympics and thinking about the idea of this nation that was never conceived and like blood and soil.

That was always meant to be this pluralistic multi-ethnic democracy. I think that's incredible. I think that's aspirational. You know, that is what I love and admire about this country. Why I'm so deeply offended by this administration who stands against all of those things.

So yeah, it's part and parcel of the way that he has personalized the presidency. So to give himself the powers of a king sought to insulate himself from any criticism whatsoever is completely disallowed, which is how he's gotten himself in us and the world into utterly disaster situations. So, you know, we will, we covered the UFC stuff, of course. You know, we'll, we'll cover the aspects of it that are relevant.

“Do I think it's the most important thing in the world?”

No, but I do think it's emblematic of his approach to the world. And how he just makes everything gross and bad and corrupt. Well, you're stirring my spirit with some pluralism talk crystal. One more thing on this front is the ballroom, the story from the post. So the timeline just to bring people up to speed.

Last June, when he said he was going to do the ballroom, it was going to be compliments of Trump that bring in the bulldozer. They turn down the East Wing. They don't get approval. He's like, don't worry about this. Patriot donors are going to contribute funding to this.

It's not going to be you guys at all. In November, he told reporters about one penny is being used for the federal government fast forward.

And now the whole project has ballooned to 600 million from the 200 million donation.

Now it's a six hundred million dollar project. And according to eternal documents, acquired by the post, taxpayers are expected to pay more than 300 million. Half of it. So, we have a totally just destructed East Wing in rubble on the White House lawn. And now we're a foot in the bill too.

So you got the corruption and the crypto and the tax bear waste altogether. Yeah. And neither way is great, right? I mean, the donors are funding it. That's also a problem.

“And a bunch of those donors have gotten contracts that was also part of the story, right?”

Like, of course. Yeah, they'll all give you a million for your ballroom. And then, you know, what contracts are going to flow to them through the government's coffers. Which also ends up being, you know, on the backs of the taxpayer. So really the taxpayer is paying either way.

But, yeah, it just becomes another funnel for corrupt dealings for him. When it's the donor way. But, yeah, taxpayers are, this is not a priority for taxpayers. This is one of the areas where Republicans were even a bit resistant. I'm like, I don't know if we really can get away with funding this.

And I know when you're dealing with a gigantic federal government budget.

It's easy to become blase about a few hundred billion dollars who cares.

But I heard, actually, Dave Smith is libertarian putting it in perspective in a way that I thought was very compelling and very important. Which is like, I live in a relatively small town. You know, my kids go to public school here. The public schools here struggle to pay their teachers competitive salaries.

So we're not constantly losing them to Northern Virginia, where they have a heart, you know, more wealth and larger tax base and are able to pay people better. Imagine what like a few million dollars would do in a place like this. Right, there's a lot of-- You could probably use any facilities at the school.

Absolutely. We are, you know, really in need of some new schools. We could use a rect facility. Like, there's all kinds of things. A teacher pay, like I said before, that we could use those a big deal.

They're putting in a sidewalk. So kids don't risk their lives crossing the street to the sheets.

And so, you know, when you think of it in those terms,

for local communities, that money could make so much difference. And instead, it's going to his ego project.

“And it's not just, I think, about his ego and these monuments to himself.”

I think, also, as he approaches the end of his life, he's very fearful about his mortality. Continually talks about how it's going to be this bunker, how they're going to have a medical hospital, et cetera. And so, I think that's also part of his obsession.

But the Washington Post, I think, were the ones who also did the analysis about how much he talks about it. And it's not just our Trump arrangement. Like, it literally is the thing. If you analyze the words that he says, it is the thing he talks about the most.

It truly is the thing he is most obsessed with. He haven't seen with, we think it might be an ADU forum. You know, after 2028, he's hoping to get JD or Don Jr. Marco and there, that he can kind of live in the bunker. Let me go back and forth between the bunker.

Can I do that? You know, back from the bunker, Mara Logo. You know, you need him or out. Kind of like, okay, you have been lost in the last suite. Anyway, Trump popping up from the basement.

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I'm going to talk about a stupid war. One thing that prompted us having this collab crystal is you message me about how your husband Kyle, I love that you're living the trad life by the way. We kind of let that slip by.

You're not in no more than Virginia. You're out in real Virginia. And this is like popular on the magma right now. We're like, you know, wives post pictures of themselves with their chickens. I just don't do it performatively.

I just live my life, you know, take my kids to school. Soccer practice gymnastics. I don't have to like post on Instagram. My apple pie. I baked or what?

You maybe should. It's just a little spoof. You should do it in Instagram real. That's like a trad life. I would enjoy it.

Anyway, you reach out into the Kyle who's also a radical leftist. You guys are united in your family. This is not a Mary Madeline James Carvel situation. It is a very aligned and you're like Kyle says is like, you're really soundable. I was like, I don't know if I should take that.

I forget if that was about the war or about my increasing openness to punitive taxation on the ultra wealthy. But on one of the top things. I think you might have been that one. I'm coming along a little bit. And so we've been totally aligned on the war stuff.

And part I don't think it has anything to do with idealology.

“I think it's because it was the stupidest fucking war imaginable.”

And anybody who wasn't blinded by there. You know, hatred of Iran or like a lot of Donald Trump could see that this was a stupid plan from the jump. But we've landed here. We have this supposed memorandum of agreement. The the text of it has been leaked to Bloomberg.

Who the hell else? I could change some of the three now in Friday. They could back out. A lot of stuff can happen. But I think it's there are three items in the deal.

I just want to highlight. Number six is that the United States will undergo with regional partners. The creation of a plan for Iran reconstruction that would be.

It would have financing of at least 300 billion at least.

Sure, I'm sure. Kushner and Whitkoff are going to get their beaks wet without one. I'm sure. Oh boy.

Think about the kind of real estate.

It's money they've got. Opportunities. Yeah. The Jared Kushner. You know, rebuilt school for girls and golf course and hotel.

“You know, I think that that and that's kind of where they're probably going.”

The United States undertakes. That immediately after this MOU and until the date lifting of sanctions. We're going to issue waivers for the export of Iranian crude oil petrochemical products. So all our sanctions are off while we go through this MOU process. And then number 11 was United States.

It said in light of the progress of negotiations for the final agreement. Frozen restricted funds and assets of these on public of Iran. We'll be released to make fully available. So basically to open the straightaway moves. We are lifting sanctions, allowing them to sell their oil.

We're going to allow them to get frozen or restricted funds in a previously sanctioned because of their terrorism and support for terrorism. And, you know, the Kushner, what cough plan is going to work with the Iranians to rebuild the country. I didn't seem like what the original goals of the operation were to me. Well, yeah, I mean, since we collapsed to the goal of the operation being to return the

straightaway moves to something approximating what it was prior to the war. No, look, we lost the war.

I mean, that's the bottom line.

We lost the war. It was a disaster. It was illegal. It was immoral. It was horrific for Iran.

It was horrific for civilians throughout the region. It's horrific for the United States. Especially for the, you know, pro-Israel, Mio Kahn-Wing, has to be the most agreed by the way that this is ultimately turning out. But what was available at the negotiating table with no bloodshed

and no missiles flying is no longer available. So the, you know, Iranians are going to secure the gains that they won on the battlefield. And it was just a matter of time. A matter of how long would it take how much pain would Trump have to sustain before he dealt with that new reality that was established by his failed war.

So that's where we are. And I saw Stephen Chong, you know, the White House, whatever his communications social media dude, saying that the text of the member of understanding is not accurate. It's been put out now, both by Bloomberg and by CNN. You're right.

Some of the details may change. But, you know, the outline of it sounds very much like what the Iranians have been insisting.

Basically, the entire time.

We won our money, which unfrozen. We won the sanctions lifted. And we, we are going to control the street of Formus. Now, there's some semantics around whether they're going to charge a toll or an environmental responsibility fee or whatever it is.

But there is going to be a new status quo there.

“And I think 10 years for now too, Tim, that the US will no longer be, you know,”

in the region with all of these bases is a way that we have been. Because what purpose are they serving at this point? You know, we had to pull our soldiers from our own bases, which were decimated in this failed disastrous idiotic immoral war. And rather than serving as protection for those countries,

they turned those countries into targets. Yeah. So it creates a new reality. Yeah. Yeah.

If you're the Kuwaiti, you've got to be reconsidering some of that. Like is it worse? Of course. Of course. I mean, if you're UAE, and I know they were very, you know,

Gungho about a lot of this. But, you know, their economy is very heavily based on the idea that they're this sort of, you know, sanctuary for the global wealthiest point. One percent in the heat. And their hotels.

We're getting, you know, drawn struck. So are you going to be able to maintain that brand? There's a lot of places for the global leap to go. So it was quite damaging to the whole region. The dark part of me, you know, I don't, I don't like to submit to my dark side too often.

But I did, I had a moment of weakness watching some of the Instagram influence or videos from Dubai. It was hard to enjoy it. People, I was supposed to be safe here. This was supposed to be my tax safe even for the money that I grifted and stole from people all over the world.

Right. It was hard not to enjoy that. It's hard for me not to enjoy also be, you know, Ben Shapiro, Mark Levin. Oh, we're getting down. I got one question.

We need to earn the neocontours. We got to earn it. Okay.

“So before we get there, where are you that on this?”

There is kind of an ongoing conversation. It's just going to be happening now for a while. Like that whenever the supposed demo, you will be Friday, 60 days from that. It's the end of ceasefire. There's going to be a lot of jockeying.

The pro is real. Lobby in particular. I think it's going to do everything they can to try to scuttle the deal. No doubt. People try to convince Trump.

They may succeed. Yeah. They may succeed. People internal and external to the administration. Trying to get Trump back in.

So there's a lot of jockeying ahead. And because of that, there's some, on the left, like your colleague Ryan Grimm. Bernie's on policy adviser Matt Dust was saying this. But people need to chill out about like the Democrats.

Need to chill out about like calling Trump a whim. And saying he's been humiliated and like putting up the big L on the forehead.

And I disagree with that personally.

“I think that the shoe is on the other foot.”

Fox would be, you know, making fun of Obama and talking about how Wimpy is. And how he's in a rugally eating bike rider and whatever. And I think that like Trump deserves that. Like he said, we are going to ask for unconditional surrender. And now Trump is surrendering.

And I think the shine should come off as tough guy act. But at least understand the argument for the other side. How do you kind of hash that out and think how Democrats should handle this? I mean, I guess I don't think of it too much in like political strategic terms. I just think about it in terms of telling the truth about what the original

sin was here is not now the inevitable deal, which is going to improve Iran's position because they won the war. The original sin is the war, right? That's where the problem really lies. And that's where the criticism should go.

So for example, I saw your post about how this is a quote, "Gift to the Mullis," which I don't know if you're trolling. I don't know if you're like relapsing to your Conway. It is a gift to the Mullis. It's not a gift.

No, it's not a gift. It's what the Mullis are strong enough. And they were before the war. They're going to be more money than they did before. The Mullis framing is also a very right-wing code.

But in a case, it's not a bad sign. I mean, they're bad. We can agree they're bad. Sure. But like, I'm a killed one.

Israel is the biggest terrorist in the region. We funded a genocide. Okay. So I'm not really feeling too confident in our ability to more lies about really any regime in the entire world.

But Tim, in a long jailed like 42,000 unarmed protestors. Earlier this year.

“I'm not here to like, I don't want to live in Iran, right?”

I don't want to live in Islamic Republic. But I also think that us bombing them has, has that helped the protestors know. I'm sure they've, it's given them pretext to be able to crack down even more aggressively if that's what they want to do. But the framing of it's a gift to the Mullis.

It's not a gift. They won the war. This is what is going to be required to end the war. Is it a disaster? Of course.

But the disaster comes from starting the war in the first place. I mean, really, the disaster comes from getting out of the JCPOA to begin with. But there was a deal on the table before the bomb started flying. That is significantly superior to what we are getting now. And that is a result of our hubris.

That is a result of the fact that Trump did not take seriously. That they could close the state of Formus. And you know, now with regards to the nuclear negotiations, I think Iran could afford to be in a way much more generous, simply because the ability to control the state of Formus is in itself a sort of nuclear weapon.

“Because what is nuclear weapons about deterrence, right?”

They have now demonstrated they have this incredible economic power.

They are going to, you know, be much more of a force in the region in the world. And no matter whether we give them the $300 billion reconstruction fund or not, there's no putting that toothpaste back in the tube. That's just the reality that has been sort of birthed by this entire disaster. I grew with all of your assessment.

I think that we can nitpick each other over our language choice of how to describe it. So the Iranian regime is certainly strengthened. I'd rather we want to use the word "gift" or whatever. Like the molas that run around are stronger now than we're before. Because of all these reasons you laid out.

Because of the fact that our position is now weaker. And they were a weakening regime. Again, additional fact that this deal is worse than the deal was on the table. If you were of the view that it would be good for there to be regime change and Iran.

Because putting aside whether or not you think we should be involved in that. Like if you're the view that that would be good. Like that's less likely now. Like the regime is stronger than it was before. Perhaps that may be true and very difficult to say.

But you know, the government there is very unpopular. You know, it's not like people are enjoying the repression. Our sanctions have also been devastating though to the people of Iran. I mean, that has been genuinely harmful to the entire population. And so, you know, in the same way that our long term sanctions policy in Cuba has not succeeded

in creating the regime overthrow that we thought that it would pressure it to do. There is a possibility here that with the sanctions lifted where the U.S. is no longer an excuse for the failings and incompetence of the government that you actually have more of a shot of some sort of a change. But regardless, that's up to them, right?

That's not up to us. And when we get in and try to do it, we just make life vastly more miserable for the people of that country. You know, if we haven't learned that enough, Ganesi in Iraq and Syria and Libya, I don't know when we're going to learn that lesson.

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When I had your colleague Segar on, I don't know, three months ago, the start of the war.

“One thing he was like kind of surprised, I think, by how much I agree with him on this.”

You know, because of my more sympathetic as as people can tell, I think, from this last conversation about creative ideas, creative solutions for spurring freedom around the world. That maybe I think some who, like, believe that the US should just mind their own business. And I maintain more of a global aspect of that. That said, like the particulars of this war was obviously stupid.

And it was in particular the pro is real right that was pushing this and pushing Trump to it. And I'm not saying that they were like, you know, puppet masters behind the scenes, but that they were arguing for it and that the biggest supporters of the kind of neocon right and the pro is real right in the commentary where the biggest supporters of the war. As you mentioned earlier, Ben Shapiro, Markovine, etc.

On the next level, we went through a long list of the tears. And I don't want to do that right now because a lot of them are still trying to stay in their good graces. Like, I watched Ben Shapiro and it just didn't really satisfy me. I want him to actually cry about how bad it is, but he still wants to kind of, like, play both sides a little bit, so he's very measured.

He folks at the commentary podcast were not measures. Yes, they were very, very upset. And so I listened to the entire podcast which I've not done for a while, because we're all fallen and we can enjoy a shot in Florida. They wanted the war.

They thought it was going to help Israel. They thought it meant that Trump was going to be more on their side than he had been. It does not work out how they planned. And I want to play two select choice clips for you.

“Let's listen to, I believe this is John Potter.”

It's on yesterday's commentary podcast. I honestly don't know if it could be worse. Because if this war ends the way I fear it's going to, America is going to be in a strategically, tactically and militarily worse position than it was under Biden

and before Trump came back into power. That is to say, he made a choice to test America's resolve. America's ability to win war to exert its will to change the nature of the map. And he has choked. He has chickened out.

He has bled himself dry.

And better that we shouldn't have done it in the first place.

True. True. Better that we shouldn't have done it in the first place. I do know how he just says but plainly that at the point at the beginning was we're going to exercise our will on the Middle East and change the map.

“And it's like, have you people been awake for the last quarter century?”

I honestly, this is where people like Tim, you switched on. I mean, really, you flipped a lot. So I was like, yeah, because I lived through the fucking Iraq war. Okay, because I'm a human on earth. Right. I'm capable of learning.

Right. I'm capable of absorbing new information and changing my mind. I mean, it really was crazy. And it was, you know, to go back to the beginning of this whole thing. It was almost insulting how little effort was to put into the propaganda.

Yeah. You know, it was just like, every day we're getting some different rationale for why we're going to war. It's regime change. It's not regime change.

It's about the new because it's about the, you know, the straight of our moves. I mean, they didn't even go through the high-minded effort that we were put through in advance of the Iraq war. So it really wasn't insulting, which is part of why it was so unpopular from the beginning. Which normally look unfortunately, Americans love a good war.

Love to see that, you know, our men and women go and drop bombs and go USA.

This one, there was basically none of that from the beginning.

People were like, what is wrong with you?

And so there is a kind of, you know, look, I don't want to laugh. I do want to laugh a lot and I want to enjoy it. And I am enjoying it. But I will also say, it's entirely possible that the John Pador, it's in the Barry Weiss and the Benjamin Netanyahu's,

the Basilio Smotcherishes of the World. And not getting their way. You know, Lebanon is really central to this. I need to show you this thing, but my name is on CNN last night. I tried to text her Trump to get back in.

Yeah, absolutely. And so, look, it's entirely possible that they end up getting their way. And that over the next 60 days when these negotiations are going on, they go back to bombing in Lebanon, Iran responds, and we're back off to the races again.

So, you know, this is, there's not a mission accomplished for us either. But, you know, either way. Let's say that happens. Let's say they go back to war already. Because this has been so much more difficult to much more costly.

So much more impossible than what the Israelis were trying to sell to Trump,

but what Trump ultimately, you know, bought into and believed.

It's very difficult to see how there is a positive outcome from their world view and perspective. You know, Israel's goal was to become the sole regional hegemony. And now, if anything approximating this deal comes together, no, there is going to be another power in the region that has the ability

and is proven themselves willing to check Israel in all of their, you know, insane, greater Israel emissions. So, their own have to completely change their approach. They have some credibility with Trump. Obviously, they've burnt tons of goodwill with the Democratic parties

and completely different places, most of the countries. And it completely different place. And so, it's not existential for Israel, but it is for the way that they have been conceiving their own security priorities in the region, which is that they can, they can broke no even theoretical threat

from anyone around them. I have one more tears video to get to. But on this point, just what you're mentioning it. I have seen, I think, some legitimate criticism of the anti-Israel left from some, and we'll have the more liberal Jewish fear, their point.

And they're kind of knocking out a straw man, but I think a real one is essentially that, like, they're a lot on the populist left.

“I don't know if you want to describe it.”

Who are talking about how Israel controls us? And like, Israel got us into this war, because they're in the White House, and there's this cabal of, you know, BB and Israel and Mossad, and they have blackmail and there's Jews out there in the world, and that's why we're in this war, and like, it turns out that's not really what happened.

And so, like Israel is not as all powerful as some made them out to be,

and that there were some conspiracy theorizing that has not born out. How would you kind of react to that? Let me say a few things about that. First of all, in terms of the left, I just don't agree that there was any, like, "Oh, the Jews are controlling."

No, I think it's very specific criticism on Israel. I think, you know, the people, you know, that I would consider truly on the left have been very careful about making that distinguishing between this state of Israel and the influence pedaling that they do in Washington, and the Jewish people who, you know, most Americans use,

do not support the current status quo with Israel. It's actually the, like, Christian Zionists who are much stronger and more solid block in favor of, you know, endless support for Israel and Netanyahu and whatever they want to do. So I would just draw that distinction in particular.

But in a sense, I do agree with you.

“I think there was far too much of, like, Oh, Trump got dragged into this.”

I always objected to the idea that there hasn't been a long-standing empire interest

in supporting Israel, that, or that Trump isn't his own man and isn't making his own decisions. Now, as you put it earlier, does the, you know, pro-Israel both Americans and the actual Israelis were they very much in favor of this war. Were they the strongest contingent pushing for this war?

Absolutely. And we have statements from Marco Rubio, for example, saying, basically, like, oh, well, they threatened they were going to bomb and we felt like we had to get into the war. So their influence was important here. But in the end of the day, we are the superpower.

Trump is making the decisions he is driving the train and he is responsible. The last thing I would say though, just in terms of, oh, this proves that the, you know, the Israel lobby, stuff was fake and they have no impact. I certainly was never arguing that that means that no American president will ever break with Israel because we know that's not true.

Obama did it. Yeah, the JCPOA. I mean, raise the tune in on certain things. Yeah, Reagan did actually Republicans have been more likely to in the past. George H. W. Bush had regented.

Yeah. So we know that American presidents can break with Israel. That doesn't mean that there isn't tremendous pressure that there isn't tremendous influence.

“And, you know, that that is an important part of the American political story.”

I want to play a second clip mostly because it was very revealing of kind of the mindset of a lot of Trump supporters. And because most of them want to stay in his good grace is still. They don't go so far as to say this directly.

John Potteritz for just saying this directly.

“I want to play for you a clip where they talk about how Trump's corruption”

was part of the reason why we got into such a shitty situation here in the Middle East.

Wait a second, the reason why we are, you know, we lost this war and we have such a strategic setback

after it looked like we were so close to changing the Middle East is because of corruption, which is going to be, I mean, I would imagine that's the theme of 2027. I mean, that's what's going to happen. So there, I mean, I must, yeah, I mean, it's because it's true. Yeah, it's true.

Why does Trump say we love gutter? Because they're giving him a plane. Yeah, because they're bribing his sons, because they're bribing his friend's sons. We know this. We all know this.

Everybody knows it. And when that wasn't having an effect on larger scale policy by which I mean, geopolitical, the choices that Trump was making geopolitically,

not that you could overlook it because you shouldn't overlook corruption.

But it was like, they were, they were bribing him and he was doing whatever it was that he wanted to do anyway. It's like, Trump was getting bribed. You know it. We know it.

Everybody knows the Trump was getting bribed as long as he was also doing it. Israel wanted it. It was kind of like, well, whatever. We'll just kind of look the other way on this for two seconds. But now that he's not anymore, we can all just say it bluntly.

The Trump is corrupt. It's like, well, no shit. Welcome aboard. Water's warm. I love that.

Well, I love him trying to be like, well, previously, when he was doing what Israel wanted, that had nothing to do.

Very battles and giving him 100 million dollars.

His campaign. That was just organically what he wanted out of the goodness of his heart. But now it's all being driven by the corrupt. He's like, okay, sure. Yeah, we really, really get to buy that one.

But yeah, I mean, there is, it's going to be very interesting to see how the next 60 days unfold.

“Because I think this thing is, I think it's very tenuous.”

You know, I think it's probably more likely than not that this, you know, it's very difficult to get through these negotiations. The Netanyahu, you know, not just the state of Israel, but Netanyahu specifically is in deep political trouble. I think he is likely to lose his election probably based on what a disaster.

This is the quote unquote moderates in Israel are attacking him from the war hawkish side saying we should have done more at Iran. He shouldn't be bending to the U.S. blah, blah, blah. So, you know, I think there's, there's very little that's off the table in terms of what he personally would do to resurrect and preserve his own political career.

So it continues to be a very dangerous moment. Now there's a new news that has been made for the Kersichmect. Now there's a few people in the Netherlands who can't be a great test. He wants to have the cheeset, cheeset, cheeset. Now there's some great tests.

The number of the 18 years, the number of cases in the area of the United States, but the number of cases in the United States, the number of cases in the United States, and the number of cases in the United States, and the number of cases in the United States. I want to end with the Democratic talk, but just one more thing. Yeah, I feel like one thing that resonates with people about independent media

that I appreciate about you guys is that like, you guys are actually mad about a lot of stuff. Like genuinely mad, like this is, it's not a game, it's not performance, or not doing like, you know, who's up who's down, and then a lot of people-- And now on the green room, and we're all just buddies. Yeah, yeah, no.

It's like, it's one thing, it's a connection. I do have even when we disagree on stuff. No, actually when I saw a Mercedes slap in the green room, I told her to eat my ass. You know what I'm eating with Kelly, right? Like, this is not like-- they're not my buddies.

I mean, Virginia, I'm a deluisant. I guess we're not part of the game. And so I'm just wondering, like, the biggest picture, you know,

“you have to cover the stuff every day, and like, be in the weeds, I feel this.”

Like, looking, you know, from, you know, the 30,000 foot level at the last year and a half. I'm just kind of wondering, like, what has made you the maddest that the administration has done? Oh, that's a big, big question. I mean, I have to think that certainly the war has to be towards the top,

just because you're playing with people's lives. You know, I mean, you're playing with the entire globe you're playing with people's economic lives. And to me, it's like a pathic, and it's horrible. And I'm actually optimistic that the fallout from this, you know, this is not to diminish any of the dire consequences. But, you know, I think it is a better situation for a wrong to be able to check and Israel and Israel have to actually live,

trying to take over territory constantly and know that they're always going to have our support.

I mean, we probably will continue to support them throughout the Trump administration.

“But, you know, I think that reckoning is important.”

There's a huge shift to renewable energy that is happening because country realizing like, hey. Yeah, maybe relying on this precarious geopolitical, you know, situation here with the straight-of-war moves wasn't the greatest idea. So the number of solar panels that are being shipped from China right now is off the charts, EVs, same thing. So look, the US is not going to be the world's hedge amount. The US, I think, already is not the world's hedge amount.

It's going to be an adjustment. It could have been done in a way that was much less horrifying and brutal and deadly and, you know, terrible and shocking and all of those sorts of things. But I think this pushes us further along the path to grappling with that reality, at least that's my optimistic hope. Look at you.

Well, this is a difference between the board podcasts and breaking points.

I try not to do optimistic hope as much as possible. Let's do it.

“If you add your core, you have to be optimistic otherwise you can't cover politics because if it's just nihilism and nothing's ever going to change,”

then there's nothing to do with it. Yeah. Yeah, I'm earnestly pessimistic. I guess I would say, I don't know. I have short-term pessimism.

I think that the next two and a half years is going to be where some people think. Yeah.

And then I have like medium-term optimism.

I do think it's recovered. I think sometimes you hear from people who are like, "It's over." The democracy's over. Yeah, same. I kind of have long-term pessimism.

I'm pretty worried about AI. And I'm kind of pretty worried about the trajectory. I sometimes wonder if this is like typical old man thing.

“When you look at the youth and their technology and you say, "Ah, I think the things are worse than it was when I was a kid."”

I do think things are worse. No, I mean, I'm pretty much the same. The AI stuff is deeply concerning to me. And on the point about is it an old man thing, and we're just can't keep up with the kids' tech. It's the young people, by the polling, and also by the response of these commencement ceremonies. They're the ones who are most concerned about the tech, because they have the most exposure to it.

Both in terms of they're using it the most, so they understand it the most. But also when they're graduating and they're seeing, I'm putting in resumes to 100 different companies that getting a single callback. They're on the front lines of the economic fallout as well, so it makes sense that they would be the biggest opponents. That's very different from any other technology that at least I'm familiar with in the modern age. Okay. On the demo stuff, here's my biggest critique, I think, of the kind of populous left-dems.

I'm interested in how you would react to it. And that is that there's like this theory of the case that the Democrats have not succeeded, because they, you know, have been too much in the grips of, you know, the corporate elite. And whatever, the five part is in, you know, kind of neoliberal global establishment, like is that a pretty decent summary. And then like the thing to change is to be more anti-corporate and more anti-war machine. So a fair summary of kind of like the populous left-grade cheek and forth of the fair.

Yeah, I think that's fair. I don't necessarily disagree with any of that. Like I think that it would probably be smart for the Democrats to be more populist on economics and, and, and regained the mantle of being more skeptical of a merit. An adventure is on overseas. I think that probably would help them politically. It isn't ever paired with any moderation on any other issues where the Democrats are out to step with voters though.

And I just, I've had a lot of them on. I'd say I'm forced to take it on yesterday. It's a good guy. But I've, I'd like to have Graham on, I'd listen to him a lot. If it's all run on, it's like all of the Democrats, no matter what we're in the party, they're from.

On cultural issues, like sound like Kamala Harris. Like sound like Kamala Harris, or even left of her, even. Like on, on issues where there'd be crime, immigration, you know, gender roles, like all that stuff. Like on all those issues, all Democrats are still in lockstep. And I think that there's a huge part of the country that is like just just doesn't agree with the Democrats and any of that.

And I don't know that you can gain ground by like just saying, hey, I'm anti-billionaire, I'm also, I have the same social and cultural policies as Clinton Biden and Paris. What do you make about critique? So I think there's some things that are worth grappling with there. And I think it, you know, has some legitimacy that critique.

I mean, first of all, Graham Platner does buck the, you know, the line on guns.

“And I think he's a good case study because you're right.”

Other than that, no, he is out there defending, you know, trans people. He's, you know, very pro immigrant. He's been very outspoken about that. Once you abolish ice, all of those sorts of things. And that's cops.

We've read it right at post. Peace cops. They're at least did. Yeah, I don't know. I haven't, I don't know what his latest views are on cops and criminal justice reform, whatever.

But, um, yeah, he, you know, he has leftist positions on most things. And there is even a contingent of leftists who agrees with him on the gun piece by the way. But that's another story for another socialist gun owners thing is a real thing. But in any case, a poll just came out that shows him winning beating Susan Collins, who is the quote unquote moderate, although I don't think either you or I would call her a moderate,

beating her handily among independence. Why is that? And Bernie, same thing.

Bernie never gave an inch on, you know, any of the, the cultural left wing issues.

And yet he continues to be one of the most popular politicians in Americans, especially in his 2016 run, one over a lot of independence.

“The reason I think is not because that magically makes everybody agree with you on issues,”

that don't poll as well as things like tax and the billionaires. Is that people are willing to give you grace on some areas if they feel like, okay, but your real primary focus is like sticking it to these rich oligarchs and being concerned with my material interest first and foremost. So I think that there is more room for left wing cultural views, which, in my opinion, are the correct and

moral and just ones when you have such a track record of putting first things first. Now my, Tim, personal view of the party is that we've had the litmus test in all the wrong areas. So every party is going to have litmus test otherwise you're just like a random collection of people, right? Yeah. Our litmus test have tended to be on those social cultural issues and anything goes when it comes to selling out to big corporations.

I think it should be exactly the inverse. I do think we should have room for some different views on cultural issues. If you are, you know, if you have credibility and are truly there on the fighting the oligarchy piece and, you know, I lump like the, the APAC money, the big farm, all that stuff into that, like that is your orientation.

“Then I think there should be some room to maneuver on cultural issues.”

But to me, that's the polar opposite of what the Democratic party has been in recent years. Okay, I like that aspiration. I don't know if that's seeing any of it yet. I hear what you're saying with the independent voters, but when you look at act and polls, if you look at actual election results,

this is the other thing that I get frustrated on, like a lot of times the big lefties on the online fighting are always like,

"We've tried it your way and we've lost, like, come a lost, Hillary lost." And it's like, "Well, I guess, but like, Biden won, Obama won." And then lost. There's a fucking one, Ruben Gaega won, like, there aren't really any examples of, like, leftist candidates winning in non-bluestates. And so, I'm down to clown on trying it. Like, maybe I'm open to the idea that maybe you're right, but there's, like, this hubris and, like, the intro coalition fighting.

Yeah. That's like, "We're obviously right. We tried your way and you lost." And it's like, "Well, not exactly. I mean, I mean, Josh Pira won in Pennsylvania. We had an example of, like, a Bernie type person winning anywhere." Richard O'Heeda ran in West Virginia and got killed, Joe Manchin won, you know? Well, Richard O'Heeda outrun and outrun his district.

Well, you can go with O'Heeda. It is a, you know, we have a latch in the nest. But, I mean, he did outrun his, like, the, our, uh, lean in his district by more than he did in the entire country. And so, yeah, and as Warren is a, is a very interesting model, right? And I think Osborne has a real shot this time around, even more so than he did. I did.

Last time. But I guess my view is not as much grounded in, like, it's the electorally superior way to go. Because I think it's difficult. I think there are a lot of different factors, including, you know,

Graham's going to have $3 and a million dollars of attack ads dropped on his head.

He's given them some things to work with, um, up to all sides, you know, has an aim that, you know, given the Islamophobia in the country, maybe a problem for him. Like, there's, there's a lot of things that go into this. My argument isn't so much an electoral, horse race argument. It's that if we want to stop the fascist slide of the country, we have to do something different. And it's existential. I do think it's existential.

So if we, you know, continue doing the thing that Democrats have been doing, which is this kind of palliative care managed to climb, where we'll be a little bit less bad than the other side, we're going to get more fascist in office. And I don't want that. I don't think that you want that either. So that's more of my focus than, you know, from the horse race perspective, although I do think that there are a lot of left populist candidates who can win and will win this type around.

And we've done it in the past. You know, I mean, if you look to FDR, right, part of the new deal coalition was in, in one sense,

it was a sort of moderation of like, okay, what we don't want the communists. So let's do something that is, you know, more in the Democratic socialist line of thinking. But also, we, you know, we had a genuine fascist movement in this country that also needed to be stopped in the thing that stopped it. Was not sort of, you know, no toast neoliberalism. It was a muscular social democratic vision that delivered huge majorities for the Democratic party for years.

“So I think we can look to our own history to see what will succeed to actually stop the fascist side that we're currently experiencing.”

I, I like the palette of Caroline.

Because there's there's that as a, you know, and I fight that against it myself because like my natural tendency is to incrementalism. And so I, because I just, that that's like part of my old small sea conservative like disposition like not like conservative in the Republican party sense, but in the just like. Like changing things really fast is risky and you don't know what the downside effects are, you know, kind of. And I, and I, I still, I do have that disposition around like I look in America. There are a lot of really bad things happening. I mean, obviously this administration in particular, but like the day to day lives of people are really challenging, particularly poor people who try to make their lives better on the other side like we could be Russia or Iran or Hungary.

You know what I mean, like there's a lot could get a lot worse. And so I, you know, got a guard against all that stuff. I hear you on that like that that's not. That isn't inspiring to people. That's not how you bring new people into a, into a coalition. Not only that, but I think, you know, we're both old enough to realize that as much as you try to hold on to a status quo changes the only thing that's certain in life and in the life of nations as well. And I know you share a lot of the concerns about AI, I think AI is a tremendously powerful technology even if it's not then we're talking about a massive bubble and a collapse that is going to lead to huge change. So change is coming.

What, whether we like it or not. And so it's a matter of how are we going to make sure that that change delivers for ordinary people. Make sure that we are, you know, sort of restablishing our country in a way that is strong and where democracy is a real world word that has meaning and not just a buzz word.

“I think that's, you know, when you find yourself sliding into those tendencies, just remember that between the climate crisis and AI and the way the world is is being reshaped before our eyes changes coming.”

No matter what one more on the cultural center move.

Sure. This is always like, sense of ground to tread because like I think that there's been a lot of really great parts about the awakening.

And I think that I actually had a lot of great cultural steps and, you know, like with my daughter in particular, like I see it day to day and like having, you know, characters and books and, you know, that represent her and like ways that she wouldn't have had 20 years ago like they're just there but a lot of positives. There was some over each. As we look ahead to the Democrats and how to win in 2028. I do think it's important to like reckon with other things that went wrong in 2024 besides Kamal is too corporate or whatever.

And I think she had a lot of California baggage and I see the story come across yesterday and it just like gives me hives when I think about Gavinness in 2028. And the story is this California had a 633 million dollar project for public utilities that was going to give contracts to LGBT owned firm.

“And to qualify, you must go through the certification program to prove that you're LGBT.”

And it's like, okay, well granted down Trump is giving away billions upon billions to his friends and fuck down on Trump. But it's like, do we really want to run in 2028 on like, you get special programs if you're gay and like you have to go through a certification program. I certainly like the, I guess it's like really like the concept of a government issued. I do like that aspect of it, but I mean, but what you're pointing to here is some because Gavin Newsam gives me hives just general because he is that status quo Democrat.

And he does a very good job of like rhetorically fighting against Trump. And so I think he's gotten some credibility with the Democratic face, but he is a very standard issue Democrat. And the truth of the matter is those sorts of like, you know, diversity programs and the word policing. That didn't come from the left in the modern political context. That was an attempt to stop burden Sanders by Hillary Clinton by saying, Oh, no, I'm the real lefty because, you know, just breaking up the banks.

Well, that's not going to solve racism. That is much more of a sort of traditional liberal orientation. I have the same problem with it that you do. I mean, I am a universalist, right? I think that the most effective programs that have lifted all boats and made the country a better and more equal place are the ones that have taken a universal lens.

And I, you know, with someone that during the great awakening, I was critical of it at the time, the word policing. The, you know, sometimes people do need our racist intention.

No, you're talking to a certain place, you know, that's fine. But, you know, the, like, all the cancellation campaigns, it was over the top. I'm going to call people out the right one is no flakes lot of times. Yeah, like, oh, I can't say this word, it's like, I can say whatever word you want. We're just going to also call you racist. Just know that they're going to be those other places for that. Like you, you can say it.

There's just also people who are going to know that you suck as a human being. Now, after you said it, and you can't cry about that.

But yeah, with Kamala, you know, I don't want to, I don't want to ignore the fact that I think it's a black woman.

“There's an assumption that you, you, like, you get just labeled as like, oh, you must be a lefty even the Kamala Harris was not a lefty in my view, and any regard.”

But she had also dabbled in a lot of the awakening language that was not helpful to her at that point. And like, you know, I think that most people just want to get government services and have the best person get the contract. You know, like, I have a buddy that is like one 16th Native American that was getting Native American contracts with the federal government. And it's like, there's, okay, there's some good intentions involved with all that and there's going to be fraud and any system. Right, and so it's like, you know, sometimes the Republicans are going to blow stuff out of proportion and I do want to be conscious of that.

Like, at the other hand, you know, we've all seen it with our eyes, like examples of access and stuff and I think that it's important to bring it up because I've noticed and we saw this around Biden and the age thing. I know the thing I noticed is that like Democrats is interesting not on Twitter, but everywhere else, if you're in a meeting with Democrats, temper mentally Democrats are nice. Like Republicans in need, I've been in Republican meetings for like people were calling each other like nasty ass words back in the day when that's Republican.

And then Democratic meetings even feel disagree like they're nice, it's just like, it's a temper mentally nice or punch and everyone's from other some value to being in the meeting and being like, you know,

“Do we need to give 600 million to the gaze and get a gig?”

I can't we, can we do some other nice things, you know, I can't we just make sure that everybody is an equal chance to get the contract like that would be okay to anybody. I just think that would be a healthy progression for the coalition. All right, everything else you have any thoughts, pick with me. I think we picked him. I was mostly I wanted to get get after the gift to the fullest.

I stand by and that's good, Chris, because there would be a problem. If we came away at the end of this podcast in total agreement, we would both have to do some reflecting on that. I think. Yeah, sure.

“I, I, I do appreciate your journey, though, and I want to continue to encourage you on that journey, Tim.”

Thank you. I appreciate you, Crystal Ball, it's breaking points. She's also got to show with her fellow radical leftist husband, Crystal Kyle and friends. And we'll be doing it again soon. Everybody else, we back here tomorrow.

With another jumper.

Okay, we got to we have to we have to bring back just a good old fashion never drop her.

As kind of a, you know, cleansing a palette cleanser for a after having Crystal Ball. I'm not just joking. We'll see you soon. Everybody else will see you back here tomorrow. The board podcast is brought to you.

Thanks to the work of lead producer Katie Cooper, associate producer Ansley Skipper. With video editing by Katie Lutz and audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.