Neera Tanden: How to Win

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Now, let's start a new test on "Shoppy-Fi". (Music) Hello and welcome to the "Board Daily". I'm your host Tim Miller. Delighted to welcome back to the show, President and CEO of the Center for American Progress.

She was domestic policy adviser to Biden. She also served in both the Obama and Clinton administrations. She's in her pearls, which I appreciate. And I've not yet seen her post on x.com so far, which is a little different. You've seen to be spending your days lately.

It's near a tando. Nice to meet with you. So good to be with you. Welcome back.

Oh yeah, that's always going to be great.

That's great. You're getting a suit by the White House and you are tweeting a lot. So we're going to get to both of those things. So you might be getting suit in the threatening to suit. We're going to get to those.

So we're going to lead some news. I signed South Carolina. Darling Graham. Lindsey Sister, who apparently knows nothing and doesn't read the news was nominated by the Republican Party to be the senator from that state for a six year term.

It's free crazy. And she beat Ralph Norman as relatively close. Norman had been like one of the key instigators of the insurrection. So not exactly a moderate. But then he did endorse Nikki Haley and that got Trump's eye or Trump's been a bunch

of money in that race. In some ways, I find Darling Graham to be the kind of the perfect magazine senator. But what was your reaction to the result last night? Did he find her to be the perfect magazine senator? Because she seemed to be almost proud of not knowing anything about foreign policy.

It looked like what the job it's then under a day. Well, because she's an empty vessel for Trump. I just think they should make her Senate majority leader. Like John Thun is not representative of the caucus. Okay, John Thun thick likes to pretend like he has views on things.

You know, occasionally he like pretends. Like he wants to distance himself for Trump.

He never actually does it.

Like Darling Graham will just do whatever Mr. Trump says. That's what Trump wants in a senator.

“That's what maga voters want in a senator.”

And so I just think that she should lead the call. A total known nothing. Trump sick of him should be the Senate majority leader. I would think. I mean, I think that's probably more reflective of where the caucus is.

I mean, honestly, she's the natural extension. And every single vote they've taken. Every way that they're locked up with. So much of the cook who crazy. That's the natural flow here.

I don't think it's easy to win in a soft girl. I know for a Democrat, but I think, you know, hopefully this gives a little bit more. Uh, to any Andrews who's challenging her. Yeah, I was intrigued. Blacks should Jane, who is, you know, not like a kind of lib-hype data analyst.

He does some stuff with our friends at the argument. Yeah, and you know, his, he pointed that Lindsey Graham actually underperformed the median Republican often in South Carolina, because he sort of is in the sour spot or some maga. People didn't think that he was maga enough because of immigration. And then some moderate study sucked up to Trump too much, right?

And so he usually kind of underperformed a little bit. And he was saying that if, if Jarlene performed like Lindsey did. And the wave for Democrats was about what they predicted to be right now. That any Andrews would only lose by three. I don't know that the Democrats should be, like, really,

invest a huge amounts of money in a hopeless South Carolina race. But that's, I thought that it was interesting. Nancy, the core is. Yeah. Kind of a moderate.

Great. That's that trend. Yeah, she's running in that Nancy Macy's old district. Yeah.

“I think this could really help her because, you know, because you can just imagine.”

And Trump was booed at Ralph Norman's concession speech last night. Yeah. I saw that. And you can imagine people like that being excited to vote for Darlene. Could, you could, you know, tamp down turnout.

And, and really, I think, help Nancy the core in that first district.

And who knows? I don't know. Maybe Andrews. What do you think? I mean, this gives to a broader issue, which we might get into later,

which is that was actually happening in America today,

But there are people who voted for Trump three times.

They voted for our mind-21, and 2020, and 2024, you know, like working class people, particularly working class women who are like getting off the Trump train.

“And I think you see that in some group of Republicans,”

voting for Tallahureka in Texas. And I think Darlene Graham puts a lot of pressure on those Republicans who are not so jazzed up about Donald Trump these days. And they could not vote at all, which would be a big problem for Darlene Republicans. I mean, hopefully they would consider voting for any Andrews. But I think there's a real opportunity around the country here,

and I think the challenge for Trump is that he obviously had to get Graham over the finish line. But she also, I think, pressure is a lot of non-magger Republicans. And that's like a really important distinction that they're mad, you're a Republicans, you're a kind of lockstap, and they're still the majority of the Republican Party.

But there's a sliver of people, your old compatriots, per se. You were not mad, you're a Republicans who raised questions about Trump, and who actually can vote for a rational Democrat. Yeah, I think that's right. And you know, I do think there'll be turnout issues for Republicans in some of these places.

And then like he said, I think depending on the types of candidates, that Nancy Lecore is like that type of candidate. She is not a lefty eyeball. You can't like, you know, stereotype her is some kind of like woke socialist, whatever. Is she looking to the military leader?

Yeah, right. Moderate. Good candidate. That's good for that district. Matches the district would be a great upgrade from Nancy Mace.

It'd be a nice Nancy upgrade from Nancy to Nancy. And like that is a seat that I've been flagging for a while. That I just think that people are now coming around to the fact that, okay, well, you know, well, maybe not the South Carolina center race, but we'll see how bad things get for Trump.

But like some of these seats that are Trump 10, 11, 12, you know, that Nancy Mace didn't even have an election really. I mean, Nancy Mace's election wasn't that competitive in 2024. And now that's he could be going. Yeah, exactly.

“I mean, I think this is what's interesting about the map expanding a real ass.”

We really in August, you've seen more and more races come on, come on, sort of, that board Adam Hamilton running in Kansas, great candidate is running very, very competitive race. But I have no idea what to take about what to learn from polls. But it's honest, but independent polls have shown that it's a close race.

And you know, I think there is kind of given all these elections in the past. There are a lot of Democrats were like, I'm not getting my hopes up about Republican crossover after all of these elections with Trump. But we are seeing some real evidence of it.

And I will say, it's not just polls. You were seeing in special elections. Democrats winning districts that have been plus 10, plus 15, plus 16 Republican districts Trump won by that much in this race. Just in Pennsylvania, the last week, which was in general,

and they're being a special election. So there are a lot of people who are crossing over or just a big problem for them as a lot of Republicans are staying home.

“And I mean, I think a central issue here is not to put a candidate that's that Republicans”

are compelled to come out and vote against. I've also seen in Maldonado, and I'm the founder of Yahoo, which is a candidate who is the head of the House of Representatives. My role is on Shopee-Fi,

because Shopee-Fi refers to the other platforms that I have tested with at the beginning.

I've always thought about it before.

All tools for the development of the government are important to understand from the law, find the right way in the sport. Now there's a constant test on Shopee-Fi.com. I'm going to have some more math talk at the end,

and I want to talk about your lawsuit. So essentially what's happening is Trump's personal lawyer, to end a $5 billion defamation lawsuit against the Center for American Progress. Interesting.

It was not over something that you said, which is surprising. I want to lost that bat. I would have thought of CAP got sued by the Trump administration.

It would have been a near issue, but it wasn't. Yeah. You guys at CAP put out a report about the national guard, concluded that these deployments have little effect on violent crime rates,

the cost taxpayers $1.7 billion,

and that hurt Trump's feelings. So what does that suggest? Yeah, that's pretty much the justice. Essentially saw the author of the report, General, who did a great job with the support

Trump saw him on C-Span. I don't realize he had time for C-Span viewing. Really? That's really what happened.

his judicial post of this from two weeks ago,

“and it really does seem like he watched general on C-Span.”

Because the report came out, like a month and a half ago, and Chandler was on C-Span, and Trump is ramping to C-Span, and he didn't like the report.

So either the human printer showed him the C-Span clip. Yes. Or maybe he got mad at Fox one day, and at the club at Mara Logo, he's sitting there eating as well-done hamburger,

before the golf course or after, and he told him to put on C-Span instead. Those are the only two theories I have. Yes. I mean, it's weird.

I don't really think of him as watching, like Washington Journal every morning, but he somehow saw this Chandler talk about their report. And I do want to say,

“he attacked us early that week that Friday,”

August 14th. He was planning, he did a big campaign in NASA County, in New York, basically attacking Democrats on crime,

talking about the National Guard deployments. So I do think he thinks this report is a problem for him, and that's why he's attacking us. Now, it, you know,

I mean, their report goes through models, and analyzes violent crime, gun crime, homicide rates,

the rate of violent crime reduction in the cities with deployments versus without two cities that didn't have deployments. It's really a factual analysis of how despite spending, you know,

as much as $1.7 billion on the National Guard deployments,

we don't have evidence that they are actually reducing crime. And, you know, there's a wider story just recently about how in DC, a National Guard have been involved in less, one percent or less than one percent of actual,

you know, a rest. So, and Pierre has a story out that, you know, talking to the National Guard in DC,

saying that they don't think they're doing anything, and it's basically a political play. So, you know, I mean, I don't think he likes the fact that we are calling out

that this could be, you know, real waste of a lot of money. So, yeah,

and these people's lives, you know, like they have lives in their home states, you know, it's back to school time,

right? It's like, you know, jobs, you know, who is parent hair? They're like, they're like, they're like, we're like human considerations. So these guys just to walk, I know, see, I was blown away

when I was in DC recently. It's like, they're circling, du punt, circle. It's kind of walking around the park. They're like these guys and like a military Humvee outside of La Droite Park. What is the point of this? Exactly. I mean, that isn't the issue we raise. And we basically ask a question, which is if it's not actually having an impact on crime

rates, then why is he spending this money? And just, you know, it's $1.7 billion. There's

a lot of money and you could actually actually feed people with that or give them help care or not take away so many people's out there. You know, that's like real, real money feeding people and getting help care is important. It also really salts the vibes in the French

“quarter. I think they're finally leaving the French quarter. But it's like, we don't need dudes”

and military gear like walking around Bourbon Street. You know, this is we're trying to enjoy ourselves here. Yeah. I can't say it's no great for tourism to have national guard to ribs to bleed in your next to your like local favorite cavern. Yeah. You know, I just want to have my purple drink with me. Yes. I don't need a guy in a military fatigue and a gun looking at me. Well, I'm trying to have a purple drink. We joke about it. But I do

just want to sit for one second on like, like everything with Trump. It's like there's part of it that's idiotic and farce and it's part of it that's really malicious that came in allegedly, you know, talking about free speech and they're this, these, you know, they speak outrage over Biden, you know, ways in which the Biden administration was concerned about this information on social media and they thought that was a, a infringement on free

speech. And now they come in and time and again, they're trying to bully media outlets, activists, like people exercising their free speech rights. And it's not precedent it. You know, and I do feel like there's been more outrage about it. Just to say what this really is in, in my mind is first of all, it's an escalation from, like, attacking media outlets to a research institution. And of course, I will say we're ideological, you know, we're not, we're progressive,

we're center left, but the report itself is all based on data and analysis. And it's, it's really the cornerstone of what research institutions are. I mean, we are looking at a federal government

policy in analyzing its impact. If if that's subject to a $5 billion defamation suit or if that's

not basically protecting speech, it's really hard to know what would be. I mean, and what is also

personal lawyer is arguing that his depamation against him, which is like kind of insane to think

“that saying his policies don't work is depamation against the president. If that's allowed to stand,”

it's hard to know what could be offered in, like, the public discourse on federal policy. It would

be hard to imagine anything that would, that isn't basically the narrative of Trump administration

surviving critique. So obviously, it's kind of a kuku situation. But I do think there's a very serious issue here, which is I'm really trying to believe organizations and get them to self-sense. I think this is a whole part of what they do, which is it's, obviously, we are going to stand up and we believe that this is a bullying tactic. I'm going to center for American progress 100% stands by the report and we'll kind of, you know, fight to the nail against this bullying tactic.

But other organizations, you know, we'll think twice about what they say about the president, and worry about this. And that is part of the role. Is it worth a hassle?

Yeah, it's worth a hassle. She would just not create, you know, maybe we shouldn't mention their name,

or it's talk about a government policy and not have it really be about Trump. And that is like what their goal is. And as I said to my team, you know, I think one of the tactics of this administration is to use fear to get people to self-sense or and we are not going to do that.

“So I think it's also important for us to role model like not giving into movies.”

And so it's unpleasant. I will say it's not unpleasant. Think of the way. But I think it's a you're going to meet with all the lawyers. You got through this. You know, when they're very sensitive, it's like it's much from the personal lawyer of the president. It's expensive. Other at every think tank is, is that well capitalized, right? And what's it? I don't know what we're going to end up paying. I mean, we're paying money for this. I mean,

we're insurance, no, we're paying, but the insurance will uncover everything. So cap is putting out resources because of the attack. So, but like the choice between standing up and paying something versus, you know, taking our report data is like not a close call for us. He picked the wrong person on the playground to try to pull away on this one. You know, like goes on mistake. It's strategically, but I appreciate that you guys are fighting that.

Speaking of their propaganda efforts, I thought this just before, you know, we got into kind of democratic, you know, back and forth. Within the democratic party, we might just like to have a little palette cleanser before we start that section of the podcast. Because there is some crazy propaganda that's happening out there from somebody that you've had some back and forths with, Sun C and N. And that is Scott Jennings. He's currently on

his auditioning to be the press secretary for some reason, which is, I was skeptical of this

at first, because it's like he could make a lot more money on the outside and, you know, it's

less busy and whatever, but he seems to really want to be the press secretary based on oh, yeah. Edible reporting. And here he was in his room. When you're press secretary, you're on TV a lot. You're he probably on TV even more. I did like the back of forths we didn't have in Caitlyn, where he's like, Caitlyn, you wouldn't be excited to get to work with me every day and Caitlyn's like, Scott, I see you all the time. He's like, you get to see me more.

“Caitlyn was like, I think I see. Anyway, here he wasn't his radio show. I knew go to new”

GLP1, like the shirt is a little baggy and he's talking about the situation in Iran. I want to play that for you. And I believe this announcement may confirm something that many in our political class refuse to acknowledge. The United States has won the war against Iran. Wars are one when one side achieves its strategic objectives and the other loses the ability to achieve its own. But the American flag and everything like this could be a spoof movie. Like if you saw this in a spoof

movie, you'd be like, okay, it's sure. But like that is real. Like he's doing North Korea propaganda behind a fake American flag backdrop talking about how we won in Iran. What? Yeah, I have to say, um, I have had the great, the great, um, displeasure. Displeasure to be on a news night every full show was gone. And, you know, I think the thing that drives Scott Jennings is spending Donald Trump at all costs. He will

pervert any fact, create any fiction, draw any insane picture to rationalize, justify, excuse

It can be Scott Jennings has been, like, auditioning to be the next press secretary for the last

year and a half. And as someone who's definitely spared with Scott Jennings, like, or the first time

I did every Phillips, I think, um, happened to criticize him about his wild outrage and anger about the Tesla protests while kind of excusing the January 6th thing. And I, I swear to God, he was going to call me a bitch on TV. But health and stuff. It was, it was, it was really angry. And so since then, we haven't been particularly close in the green room or anything. But my take on him is, um, you know, he is out for fame, book sales. He loves traveling around

the country. Makes him really happy to talk to the White House on the phone. And so he'll be excited. You know, I, I'm not surprised at all that he's being seriously considered.

Have a little dignity though. I, I promise, like, honestly, and everybody, you could just

be in near everyone's side to sit. We've all been in the game before not me anymore. I get to do

“radical candor on a podcast. But you know, I used to be a flack. You have to spit. I took you on and”

do like we have won the war in a run. I mean, it's, it's bagged at Bob's style. I've been on the show with him for months now. I mean, I'm not on as much as he is, but I've been on since the Iran War every week. I am on saying, look, what's happening? We are losing the war. Um, and he will say, no, we are winning the war. So it is, I've seen an added dramatic effect to have the full North Korea flag waving back. But it's not different than what he's been saying for months. And,

you know, I mean, with is interesting is to be serious, we are coming up. August 28th will be the sixth month anniversary of this war where people like Scott Jennings and everyone else has been saying we are winning this war. And we are obviously not winning this war. So they have been lying to the American people for months about a war. And I think that's reprehensible, but not unexpected from Scott Jennings. I was an old cook of them from May or March. I don't

know where he's like about. I'll come on that this is going to be overseeing you a little bit more time. Like here, we are coming up on Labor Day. This is an unconfirmed report. I don't usually

“like to share these, but I think it's interesting because, you know, there's stuffing being”

either around about this. The CIA director, Red Cliff went to Moscow. My guy, Michael Weiss and Mark Polymerapolis, if you guys have missed us, they're doing a series for us now in YouTube. So people can check that out. They kind of battered around the various reasons why Red Cliff could have gone there. But one report we have is that he was essentially asking Moscow to press Iran into reopening the straight-of-formers because of, you know, the issues to the oil market.

And basically threatening Russia and saying, hey, we're going to put the sanctions back on

the Trump Togos because he liked you. And like you might think you like shit, but we're going to put the sanctions back on if you don't pressure Iran on the straight-of-formers and Russia said no. So I don't like regardless of like if that is true, you know, like a humiliating if true, I guess.

“But like the fact that we are here and that it could be, right? Like I think one boat went through”

the straight-of-formers on Monday. I haven't seen the Tuesdays numbers. But like that's where we're at. Six months in. Yeah. I mean, we're without this rush of story. You know, let's just step back and say, the Iranians are dictating terms on the straight-of-formers today. They are dictating terms to Donald Trump on how to seize hostilities. If you had said to me a year ago, we were eight months ago that somehow Donald Trump would manage to strengthen Iran, the Iranian regime.

I would have said that's really hard to imagine. But here we are. And the United States is in a more and around. Just as a reminder, Donald Trump decided to get kind of do this one his own and we are all paying for it. We're paying more for gas, we're paying more for a whole range of things, things are pretty expensive. And he is at the point where he is sort of begging other countries to ally with us against Iran, to the pressure on Iran. And you know, it's also, it's happening, our European allies were like,

"Hey, you're on your own." Other countries are like, "Hey, you're on your own." Because this guy told them to kind of screw off over the last year and a half. So you look around around the world. And I mean, it sounds insane that somehow Iran is a more sympathetic actor around the world that's insane. There are terrible regime, horrible regime.

And he can't make a deal. This is my analysis. I said there's a war, but the real reason why he can't

“make a deal because it will be clear that he's lost as soon as he makes that deal. Like, we are losing”

this war. It's just a question of the finality of that. How clear the loss will be. And, you know, counter-sched Jennings, you are in a situation where the Iranians have control of the straight-of-formers, then we are losing this war. Deep breath. Now we get to the section I have titled "Bones to pick with Neera." Okay, here we go. Look, one reason why we love each other is because we're both posters at heart. You know, we both just want to express our views. And I was your number defender when

those just cowardly Republican senators were like, "Hey, Neera was mean to me on Twitter. I can't confirm where I were mad at Neera." Doesn't it seem funny now? Like, given everything that's ever

like everywhere, and the Trump is that about everybody. This happened. This was something to have.

The Republican senators were whining about Neera as the virus to mean to them on Twitter. I did say that Susan Collins was the worst. And I stand by that. And I think he vindicated by time. So that was six years ago. Your Twitter energy, though, lately has been a little bit off of Susan Collins for my taste. I counted this morning. Fifteen tweets about Hassan Piker since Sunday. You and Ryan Grim seem like Peter Twinkwich

posted this that I do think it's kind of charming that Ryan Grim and Neera Tanda don't block each other and keep lashing at each other's throats every day. You rarely see that man or of a grade Wagyu beef anymore. Really, I respond. I want to say, I think I respond. I'm not the one tweeting at Ryan most of the time. I would say the same thing to Ryan, if he was on. I'm sorry, this is not that I don't understand. No, I'm about a lot of attacking the left right now from you

on the Twitter account when we have a big challenge ahead of us in November. And so what's

“talked to me about? Yes, I think this is a really important thing to discuss. So I actually”

appreciate the opportunity to talk about this because I want to make a distinction. And I've said this publicly as of this to New York Times, like I'm on 32 ago, which is where DSA candidates went in blue cities. Like, that's a healthy thing for a party. It's okay for a democratic broad tent to have very liberal candidates and very liberal parts of the country. And when people complain about this, I say to them, there are like some really cool members in like mega parts

of the country. And you know, like it's a big tent and we should be growing that. My concern, or it's a genuine concern, is that Hassan Piker is noxious to the brand of the Democratic

party in swing states and swing districts. And I'm always for a big tent, but big tents have

tent poles. And tent pole for me is, which would be against racism, sexism, homophobia, Islamophobia, anti-Semitism. You and I have talked in the past about past Senate races and how some of them have implicated some of those issues. And I just, I try to be consistent and say, I don't think it's great to do those things at a moral level. And then to be honest about it, I also think it's a terrible political strategy. Now, I know a lot of Democrats were like,

Trump is so terrible. Why can't we be a terrible? Like, we need our own people, that's not my position. No, I know it's not your position. I'm talking about strategy. Yeah. I've told you that strategy. I've told you one, 15 tweets about Piker this week, feels like a lot. I've told you one. And he's got, I've got things that I could pick up Duel about, but like, he's not campaigning with signing anymore. Like, that was in the past

Senate. And again, so like, why keep talking about it. It's like not that helpful. Oh, I see person. I was, I feel like I have tried to be clear that it's good. It's a good thing that he's moved off of Piker. And I've said multiple times, I would support a Duel I'll say,

“I think this is a good step. A lot of people looked at a statement and said, I was not in a”

a Duel. So it's a good statement. It's not enough. I think this is a good step. You know, you can't, like, it's good. When people do stuff you want them to do, that's great. But I'll tweet less if you'd like. No, I like your tweeting. I just, I'm just trying, like, I'm trying to get like an 80. 20. I'm trying. I also want to hear your real thoughts, right? Like, look, I've said this before to it. Like, this is all, there's balance and all things. You know,

I think it's some level. You don't have to comment on this, and you're in the White House. Like, we could use a few more people talking about how we've concerns about Biden's electability. Going ahead to 2024. Like sometimes when you circle the wagons too much, you actually do self-harm. Right? And so I agree with that. Like flagging issues within the coalition of flagging things that

What I'm not for is just like, fight to the death between the factions and the party.

Yeah, yeah. And having that be the main focus. And like, I am seeing a little bit of that. Yeah, I hear what you're saying. I guess what I'd say is, like, you know, I do back and forth in this. Oh, there's been really honest, you know, you know, why do I need to talk about any of this? I just get yelled at a lot. You can see I get yelled at a lot, but I do have people come up to me and say, you are scared of like, maybe an online mob or

something and say, it's really important that your voice is out there standing up for things like, it's wrong to have any anti-Semitism or any Islamophobia or any of these issues. And so,

you know, I think part of the challenge is that now there'll be a counter narrative saying,

anyone who criticizes them is they're fighting, got something, or more than Republicans, which is like, I'm really, I think, genuinely, we should all focus on defeating my crudders. And I thought it was a good step that I'd be all say it. It's a good thing to focus on. And this is an area where I will also come to your defense. People can play with others. I was like, New Year has been in the fucking trenches fighting this guy for 10 years. A lot of people

who had New Year's job in the Obama White House or equivalent moved to Seattle or San Francisco did very well against all of the private sector and while the country burns. So I have nothing

“that love you on that. One other strategic point that I do understand. Yes, that's what that is.”

I just think that sometimes I feel like both sides of a little blinders on this,

both sides within the Democratic faction, which is like, this is a madaglacy's point about side that I totally agree with. It is like really important right now for Abdul to be focused on reaching out to Alyssa Slotkin voters who are moderate, people that voted for Alyssa Slotkin when she won in 2024 when Kamala lost and saying to them, hey, I am closer to your interest, goals, needs, desires, the microodders for this reason. That's important for him to do.

100%. So I know we agree with that. And important for that, moderates to, exactly. And this is where I come in. And this is my issue about piker. And like the piker thing is kind of a stand and for this point, if you know, people of personal issues with him, I get it. He said some things that I obviously

“find wrong. But I think it might not seem to signal to the Bernie Trump voters who are going”

to be also important swing voters in this cycle. You mentioned at the beginning, like, hey, I hear you about the wars, by the way. You know what, like maybe we were a little bit, you know, maybe we went along a little bit too much with these kind of wars that both parties supported. I hear you about corporate influence. You know, and like I think we need to be more aggressive and fighting corporate influence in our elections. And so sometimes I just, I feel like I see more

energy from the moderate faction talking about why the lefties are bad than I do see them saying, hey, I disagree with you on some things, but I hear you. Yeah. And I'm actually going to fight for that. Yeah. So I'll go even further. And this is what you're saying, okay? Right. I think where the left is really right is that things are really bad in the country. So I think where, you know, you have moderates kind of talking about incrementalism and the left talking about

more radical change. I think that's going to actually push people towards the left because, you know, they are, the left is right that it's insane that we do have a trillionaire dictating election outcomes by the level of spending is doing. And it's like that is oligarchy. And they are right. I mean, the fundamental analysis that things are really broken in the country is actually very right. And I usually think center left people or, you know, kind of

“normies, you know, it's our job to compete on ideas. That's why I don't think it makes sense to”

launch a campaign against DSA or things. I think like the thing is like if you think DSA is wrong, offer better ideas. Like I spend a lot of my time thinking about how it is a big problem that the bottom, you know, 60, 65, maybe 70% of Americans are really stuck. You know, like we have less upward mobility. They are incomes of not kept up with costs. Like that is a legitimate and accurate fight. And I do think they're big issues around affordability that actually unite,

moderates in the middle and left. And the left is really right about a lot of issues. So I, I'm not like fighting off like the left per se. My concern, genuinely is how to win. I mean, you know this as well as I do. Post 23 Democrats have to win in states. The blue wall is not enough.

like that, North Carolina for sure. And so to me, I think the real question in front of us is how

do you build a big enough tent? And then how do you ensure that you're doing that in a way, where you embrace like your base and the left or who has a broad, the broad tent in the Democratic Party without doing things that alienate like kind of Republicans who come on border independence. And I think Bernie Sanders is a great example of that.

“Yeah, I have that's why I point about both sides. Like I do think the lefties have some crazy”

candidates who do who say things that alienate moderate voters. I also just, this is just anecdotal. But in my social life, I just, I don't think that it, you know, because obviously more people I talk to are more aligned with more moderate or center candidates. And I don't think that they have just internalized how, how much they have alienated getable voters, like, particularly on, you know, our relationship with Israel and the wars in Middle East, but also on my corporate

capture and stuff like that. And like it just works both ways, right? Like it just does. And I think that I, unfortunately, you know, in Georgia, and so in Georgia, the coalition is probably big enough to, you know, the now because of the late things go to win with kind of black voters

and never Trump for college educated, never Trumpers nearly in the suburbs. Like that's a big

enough coalition to win Georgia. But to win in these states like Iowa and Ohio, like you got to go back to the Obama Trump Bernie voters. And that's a different kettle of fish. Yeah, but I mean, let's be honest about this, okay? I mean, there's like a lot of data behind this. And I think we, we would be really, really, like genuinely honest. And I think also that group of people, let's not look backwards. Let's look forward. Donald Trump is losing people who vote

to farmers as we talked about people voted for him three times. That group of people that he's losing. Now, and you're probably because of this war, tend to be working class white voters predominantly women. Hey, guys are still hanging on, but the women, the relied women who have questions at that

Trump, those voters are economically populist. They don't think the political system works very

well. They do think both political parties kind of are corrupt. And they like, I think there are many ways that they are like kind of Sanders friendly. And that's like really, that's important. Let's like, they are very moderate on crime and immigration and on some cultural issues as well.

“And so that's why you see a Rob Sand in a Talariko to take some of the positions they have.”

And my only plea to everyone is to give like grace to candidates running in states like Iowa, Texas, Ohio, Alaska to take on issues. But really, more security related issues that are going to be very different. And don't call them sellouts and jerks for doing that. And now I'm going to outflank you because I think that's right. And I think that right now, what I'm seeing from a lot of Democratic candidates is it's easy and comfortable within the coalition

to say, hey, we should be more economically populist right now because everybody supports out. Like you said, even moderate support, it's they don't get much trouble for saying that. Really, maybe he's with some donors. But for the most part, they don't get much trouble for that. And then I kind of do this kind of vague lip service to like, you know, we also should move to the middle on immigration or crime or like be responsible. You know, we want to keep people safe.

But there's nothing like when you then when you ask them about where their policies are different from a Harris policies or whoever, there's nothing there. And you know what I mean? And it's like, this is going to require a little bit of like meeting people in the middle on some of those decisions, particularly around and then I mean, I'm like John Lennon and open borders on immigration. So this is like in both of these issues, this is an initiative against interest. I'm not. I really

thought I could not talk about it. Even though I'm painful taxation on the rich on fine for now, I've come around on that Bernie's won the over. I've met too many rich people. But I also like and pretty liberal and immigration extremely liberal on immigration, but like you just have to be real. Yeah, I mean, and I would say like the cap as put forward papers and ideas on immigration and

“those ideas and immigration would secure the border or form a side line, which is the key”

component to securing the border, but also expand legal immigration, give people a path to citizenship. And my whole, our whole argument about this is we can tell the country, you don't have to have this like terrorizing ice organization to secure the border. Right. And that's like a position that most people have, but you do have to tell people or specifically in these states how you're going to secure the border. We also prefer to cut crime land that is focused on what's reduced crime,

coming back to our top topic, what is reduced crime in cities like Baltimore. And that is in a prevention, but it's also additional police and detectives and also, you know, ensuring that

were just conversations like working for us people are pretty moderate on those issues. And I don't think,

you know, and I guess I'd say, I would hope that there's a big tent for everybody for candidates and in more conservative leaning states to be able to take those positions and then candidates in very liberal cities to be able to take their positions. Oh, you mentioned Rob Sand. I won't talk about him in particular. He doesn't want to sound all this. His video going viral. Do you see this? Talking about how to treat his opponent,

Zach Lane. This is Rob Sand is doing some things that are totally outside of the conversation at all. And I want to bring this up because like the way that he is veering is not on this kind of moderate leftist. This is very intelligent. He's just like doing things very different. And so,

I want to just give two examples of that. These are not policy issues at all. It's just he's

sounding totally different. I want to play one video of him in a town hall talking about his

“opponent. Who's awful? Politics is often times pretty stupid. I think that we can acknowledge”

that my opponent or human beings and that everyone who runs for office should be willing to do that because it's important. All right. Now, I still think that I'm the better choice, and I'll tell you why, but I'm not going to do it without asking you first to keep in mind that this is a debate between two human beings. We don't need to demonize people. We don't need to lie about him either. That is going against the conventional wisdom from dem circles that are like,

we need to go lower. Michelle Obama was not wrong. And I don't know, I watch Rob Sand give a speech to a democratic audience where he was talking a lot about his dads or public in friend. And now they wait for coffee and our Republicans have good ideas and like, look, this is state Trump won by 11 or 12, and he's modeling like how to like really signal to people like not pay lip service, like really signal like no, like you can be comfortable with me

if you voted for Trump. Yeah. And then this is a really crucial amount of all of this, which is

I think some kind of it was side of the fact that in order to take, uh, have a democratic Senate or to win these the house back, you actually have to compete for people who voted for Trump. And how do you do that? I mean, there's issues there are a part of that, but there's also what kind of message you're sending in general. And like, I think I think people should really study Rob Sims race because in everything he does, he's trying to communicate that he would be a

governor for everybody, not just one fact, one side, one party, he'd be a governor for everybody. And look, I am a hard fighter. Okay. Like on the fighter fold dynamic kind of definitely in the fighting, but I also recognize that we're not running for Senate and Iowa. I was going to roll to fly. Okay. Like also, I also like, I would like my personal views. I would like this nightmare

“of Trump to be over. And the only way I can figure out how to make it over is to have people win”

in kind of Republican leanings, say states, so Republicans wonder like what they are doing. And maybe that won't happen either, but it's better than just sitting here going in 50 50 elections and like let looking at this like general degradation of our country. Here's something else Rob Sand did yesterday. J. Mark, my friend Jonathan Martin interview them. So I think this is the part that you're going to start with. Yeah, I'm going here.

Whatever you think about these answers, I didn't sound like a politician. Here's Jonathan Martin. Would you want to have Joe Biden here campaign for you? Sand? No. Can he even do that right now? J. Mark, how about Kamala Harris? No thanks. Let's move on. We need some new leadership. J. Mark, you don't think Harris should run in 2028. Sand? No. J. Mark, who do you think is good for 2028? And he goes off to say, I'm focused on this race and here are the things

really matter, future, et cetera. Whatever you think about those answers, those are real answers. Not politician answers. Radical candor. Right. Yeah, I mean to me, I think this is like an important lesson for all of us. Like we're all going to give grace to Rob Sand to say like be to say what he needs to say or say what he believes or say, you know, like I just think that's

“I'm going to give him grace to do that. You know, like I think it's like really important”

that he wins that race. And I think he believes everything he's saying and I think is what I do think the way he just says yes or no is really important. You know, like I think people are done with politicians big. Rob Sand 48, Zach Lane 44 in the poll at this morning. Zach is the sex toy magnate that lives in Kansas. And I saw a video of him the other day talking about how he's concerned about the call to prayer in Michigan. So it's a Kansas candidate that's invested in

Those are your birds. Do you disagree with any of them? I don't. I don't disagree with any

“of them that I'm just saying. That's pretty crazy. I'm just saying a lot of it. We spend a lot of”

stuff. We spend a lot of time clutching our pearls over here. Me and you're talking about things we're concerned that some of these we do some cookie candidates on our side. But it's like we don't got anything like that. It's too interesting because like I criticize Republicans all the time and then people are like, you don't criticize Republicans enough. I was like, what? Not you,

you don't do that. So I'm like people say that to me. And I was like, the real problem in the Republican

party is that they go along with, you know, kind of running the country. And the rest is really bad. And they should stop doing that. Sam Stein is forced me to ask you one last question. Are you ready for it? Oh, God. I'm not going to answer any Sam Stein. Okay. Well, that's everything. And you're right, probably. I can answer this. What do you think about how Ken Martin is doing? Do I, I feel like I'm so good at pre-butting that I'm not going to answer this question. Okay. Sam's follow up

question to you. Would you consider taking his role? If asked? Is that a Sherman asked denial? Uh, as a 100% Sherman asked denial. And I don't think people who who claim to like me should want me to take that job. That is something that we're going to do. And you don't

“understand? Okay. You're a good job. Anything else you need to get off your chest? Anybody”

you want to yell about? Anything that Kappa's doing that you want people to yell about? Oh, yes. Yes. Well, I would say and you were grateful for all the support against her last shoot. It is expensive. So good work website, Center for American Progress and American Progress.org and check out all the things we're doing. And I will say we have a lot of ideas on how to lower costs for Americans and I'm really grateful of all the leaders across the country who are using

those ideas to get them and also, you know, in some of their races. The corruption tracker that you're doing is also really useful and something that I turned to a lot. And I actually feel now, I'm chastizing myself now because I should have, we should have brought this up before we got to, before we got to, you know, Michigan Senate discourse because I mean, that is related to affordability. Yeah. And Democrats got to talk about this, I'm not supposed to do anything else. Others are doing.

The people that are doing really well are doing a really good job, tell Riko, of like tying those

“two issues together. Yeah. And I think a really important thing to remember about corruption or the”

1.7 billion dollar national guard deployments is it's really important for us to remind people,

these are the choices the president's making. He's he's like finding a hundred billion dollars for the Iran war, while he's cutting people's health care. He's spending a hundred one point seven billion dollars on a national guard deployments, while he's cutting snap payments and like basically food payments for people will hungry. That is the kind of choices that we're dealing with and why change is so necessary. We'll leave it there. It's near a tandem. We'll see you on x.com and we'll have

you back on, I don't know, I'm probably before the midterms, all right. Okay, great. Thanks for having me. I'll see you then. Everybody else, we'll be back here tomorrow for another edition of the pod. See you all then, peace. The board failures brought to you thanks for the work of lead producer Katie Cooper associate producer Andley Skipper and with video editing by Dante de Chico and audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.