Sarah Longwell, JVL, and Martha Raddatz: Trump Is Looting Us in Broad Daylight

- Hello and welcome to the board podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller. We have a double header for you today and segment two Martha Rattitz. The ABC News will be with us.

She's got a new book out when we talk some foreign policy stuff. But I had too much rage to just have Martha on today so we have an emergency segment A with the TNL gang 'cause we don't have TNL this week.

And we already did one emergency TNL but we're doing a second one because we love each other and we have too much anger in our hearts to just go a full week with us. - I finally feel like you see me.

- No. (laughing) - So anyway, it's a long, long, long JBL. I wanted to talk in particular about the slush fund. 'Cause I feel like each day I get more mad about it.

And it's one of the things that was so preposterous

“and ridiculous that I think that at some level,”

I was blocking my heart and my blood pressure from achieving the levels that it should have achieved. And start thinking about it today, reading Andrew Eggers morning shots, which is very good. And I want to posit this.

What he's done basically is a $1.8 billion package

that is reparations for mega insurrectionists. Like that's what this says. Our money that they're taking. What are your reactions to that? - Okay, so it's not just reparations.

This is the thing that I am really hung up on about this but I agree with you. I get angry about this by the minute and I was angry, I was furious about it to start. This is the most corrupt thing

we've ever seen a president do and all these people on the right, right now, especially at the NRO, right, who are trying to tell us that somehow this is normal or this like, we've seen other presidents do this,

this isn't unprecedented. - That is like the settlement with the date of Americans. How can he different than the settlement with the India? - The de-floater horizon stuff, you know.

“- No, and look, if you want to go deep on this,”

Andrew Weisman and I do it on illegal news and he has like a tremendous breakdown of this. So go listen to that.

But here's the thing that's got me really torque.

One is to say that its reparations is to say that it's backward looking, okay? But it's not just backward looking. This is about not only paying people off, right? It's about incentivizing them for future payoffs.

As long as they do what Trump wants them to, right? Like Trump is concocted by pardoning the January 6th insurrectionists and then giving them remuneration. He's also creating the sense of this says, you do bad things for me, you break the law for me,

you know what I'll do for you? I'll pardon you and I'll pay you. Pardon and payment. That's what he gives to people who break the law. - So that's what I'm freaked out about.

So back in 2020, guys may remember this. The president of the United States called up the Wayne County Board of Canversers in Michigan. The board of canversers are anonymous people, who's nobody has any idea who these people are,

but none. He was like, you know, can you just don't certify the results in your county? That's all. You don't have to change anything.

You just have to not sign your name. Now they sign their names and kind of got lots and four of that. Imagine how that phone call goes. If he says, don't sign your name and you get a million dollars.

Because I've got this secret fund. And by the way, it's a decisions are all in secret. Nobody can ever see that. - So you don't even know nobody can have it. - This is the thing.

- It's nothing that I hadn't sunk in with me this morning. It's like, the money's out the door now. It's gone. Right, so there is no legal opportunity for calling it back. It's like now this fund has the money.

And they get to disperse whoever they want. And we don't know. There's no FOIA. - There's no. - The single best part of this is that the fund sunsets at the end of Trump's term.

Like that's an amazing domain. - That's amazing. - So, Komi, Komi can't use it. Latisha James can't use it for Trump weaponizing. The his administration against people. It is only for people who say they were weaponized to get fighting.

“I don't know if you saw this, but someone like Molly Hemingway, right?”

Is out there like now. There's also these people who are out there being like, yeah, I was done dirty by the Biden administration. Right, they're all gonna apply for money. And it's just a way to hand this stuff out

to people they like and particularly people who will carry their water and do their crimes. - And, and it's a point of leverage over people once they have applied. Because once you have asked the Trump people

to give you money, they can then say, well, let's say. Right, let's see what you can do for me. You know, we're considering your application. Let's see what you can do for us fast, right? I mean, the levels of corruption here are all the fucking charts.

- Here, give you another one.

So also as part of this deal is that the IRS is never

Again, they are buying themselves immunity going forward,

“which by the way, can we just say how much that doesn't track?”

Like, if the problem is that you had a contractor

who leaked your tax returns, the idea that what you get as remuneration for that, first of all, the idea that it was $10 billion, the idea that it's this $1.7 billion slash fund, none of that.

But the idea that then also you get immunity from prosecution in business matters, for the IRS, in perpetuity, for you and your family, doesn't follow. Like, that's not a thing that you get. The level of corruption here is staggering and in plain sight.

And I think that the silence on the part of Republicans and, like, go ask every Republican in Congress, media. If you're listening, mono, if you're listening, every member of Congress should be asked about this. And if they do just like the John Foon,

it's not my favorite, don't love it. These guys should not be able to get away from this. This should be the kind of thing that makes people go berserk. And if Sarah doesn't love doing fast math,

so I'm gonna do this for $1.8 billion is $1,800 million.

Yeah, yeah. So like, you can find,

“maybe I think you can go out and find $2,000 people”

and bribe them with $1,000, or $18,000 people and bribe them with $100,000. Like the type of leverage for bribes, like the scale of this, is like really come challenging to wrap your heads.

Like how much raw money of this. So I think some people would say, it's no different because, you know, if Trump was gonna bribe people, he could have done it out of his own pocket, right?

That's not true because when you're bribeing people out of your own pocket, that is illegal, that is fraud. This is legalized fraud. So in the same way that his defamation suits against ABC and CBS, we're basically legalized bribery, right?

It would have been illegal for him to come to them outside of a court of law and say I demand that you pay me because that, otherwise I'll be mean to you. That's extortion. But if you do it under the cover of a lawsuit

and then two of you sign a private contract, which says we will pay you, please be nice to us. That's perfectly legal. And so that's what this fund does. It takes what otherwise might be illegal behavior

and it blesses it under the law. He's an innovator. I keep saying this. The guy is an absolute innovator. These are things which nobody ever contemplated.

“And he's like, how's talking with Kathy Young about this?”

Like we're tweeting each other about it. It's like, think about the outrage that there was a Kamala Harris when she posted the link on her social media feed to the bail fund for protestors. And I think it was Kenosha, I'm going for memory.

I think it was being able to actually. And there was some outrage because some of those protesters who accessed the bail fund had done some petty crime, or maybe had broken into a building or something, which is not appropriate.

Well, she had done, was just post, like, cases ago fund made basically. So other people can go contribute to this. And like, a leader, a political leader, should do that. Shouldn't be incentivizing, like this type of behavior.

Like the other side of this, a lot of that money went to actual protesters who were wrongly gone after by the government. Anyway, that's either here or not there. That's what she did.

Like this is as if Joe Biden had decided to take $1.8 billion

of tax money and give it it to the Kenosha writers. And that's what they're doing now. Like they were outraged that there was just even a notion that other people could privately like raise go fund me for people who had been put in jail,

so they could have a defense fund. Like this is a handout to rioters. I want to emphasize the corrupt nature of the process by which we got to this. Because again, it would be one thing for there

to be a piece of legislation for Congress to say, we need to have this fund. People in Congress vote on it. The president signs the bill into law. It would be another thing for the president to sign

an executive order on this. What happened here is that Donald Trump as a private citizen filed a lawsuit against the government, that he heads and then while sitting on either side of the table does a totally unaccountable settlement

with himself in which he abrogates $1.8 billion of the government's money for his own purposes. Which is why it's completely unprecedented. And somebody should go tell the good folks over at NRO and some of these other places that in these other settlements,

they weren't done, they were at least adjudicated by courts. Like whatever you think about them, there was a process that was not the person sitting on both sides of the table.

it's like, you know, there is the bad incentives for doing things in service of Trump and an attack on a democracy, which is really concerning, but there's also just a lot of these people are criminals. And it's just, this is like a classic conservative argument

like thinking about NRO or Benchapere, like that you don't want to have government policies that incentivizes bad behavior. And this is just a, you know, traditional conservative argument. We literally have evidence that they've done that.

Like one of the writers who was part in who thought this money was coming tried to bribe the kids that he was raping to shut up. - Yeah, that's right. Like this is the thing.

I hope a bunch of these people that he pardoned went on to commit new terrible crimes, many of them sex crimes. And some of them sex crimes against children, these are people who are going to get money from us.

We are paying them off. The level of outrage, and this is why I do think is Republicans, it starts to sink in. We should make it sink in. What does happening?

And because this is just like the ballroom, this is our money, while people can't pay for gas, while people can't pay for groceries, they are doched away our ability to what immunize, sick kids, and continue to do NIH research.

But we're going to pay out $1.8 billion

to the January 6th rioters. They tried to overturn an election. - I have a question for you guys. I worry that this is hard to make a salient issue, because A, you have to explain it.

It is slightly complicated. But B, after the initial hit on this is over, the whole thing is submerged in darkness. And nobody can ever-- - I hear you speak about the reparations branding,

but this is why I like $1.8 billion for white reparations for reparations for maga and suractionists, we can keep new towing on it.

“- I think that there's a way to explain it”

that is somewhat simple, but I hear you. - I do think that Democrats are going to have to figure out how to start telling a much bigger story. This is one of those days where I just want Democrats to go grab a microphone.

I want them to be in their Republican colleagues, faces saying, how can you let this happen? Because this is-- - It's a mansion story. - It was on the board, who are the five judges on the board?

- Sure, but there's a story to tell here about corruption overall. Like the ballroom isn't hard for people to understand what you do as you create a big case. And the volume did this in Russia.

It was all about-- and it's a contrast conversation. It is about all of the ways in which your tax dollars are being stolen by this administration. And then all of the ways in which Trump is not helping you. All the ways he's using taxpayer dollars

for his own petty purposes, including helping these insurrectionists and not helping you, the person who is suffering under high gas prices for his war of choice and everything else. - The ballroom is the other thing

I wanted to talk to you guys about, so I'll go back. This is a real sentence from Jake Sherman at Punch Bowl and like nothing else Jake. He's just reporting the news. Like this is just a deadpan sentence

that is true as far as how Republicans in the Senate are acting this year in this moment. The $1 billion for US Secret Service

for the ballroom is one of the most important things

Republicans are dealing with right now. It's the single provision that's standing in the way of ICBP funding. Trump wants us on his desk by June 1, but it's been complicated by the $1 billion.

I mean, this is like, this is their top priority right now. Trump was out there talking about it again today. They're gonna have a drone launching pad on the ceiling of it. They've added now, there's a little press conference.

He wants to fire the parliamentarian 'cause the parliamentarian said that they couldn't include this in reconciliation. It's also holding up the ICE and Border Patrol funding that they're trying to do amidst all the problems

in the country. They're not hiding. This is an endocrine.

“They're just like, "No, this is what matters to Trump.”

This is priority, the ballroom." - I want them to do it. Oh, I want them to do it. - So you can knock it by you guys? Are you? - Yes.

- You want them to build it with our money so we can knock it out. - I want them to build it with our money and I think it is important that they do use taxpayer money. I want them to use taxpayer money, right?

I forget hiding 'cause, hey, it means there was more corruption

with the $400 million in donations

that joints where they, you know, but also then to knock it down. Are you guys with me on knockin' down the ballroom? - Yeah, you can knock down any of the stuff that you can do. - Yeah.

- It's all we can rename it. Like, I might be too excited if we have a ballroom. - Got it, destroy it. Can't rename it.

If you rename it, then vice versa. - What if you rename it, then trade it. - The George Floyd honorary ballroom. - Yeah, I'm a lawyer. - Anything you do short of destruction

can be undone by a future, future administration. - Okay, well, do I have to fight for this right now? - I think it's not about end of Rome's stuff. We're to keep building and knocking down the ballroom over and out for it.

- That's right. - You know what? Tell them we can do this all day. Pack it lunch.

“- Yeah, that's what I did with my three-year-old”

with blocks all the time. - Yes. - Build it up just so they could knock it down. - So the prioritization part does feel off.

- That's why I want them to do it. - But it's more, I want Democrats people to run around the country saying there's been all their time

trying to pass a billion dollars

to build his ballroom. - Yeah. - That's right, but this is the story. The story is Donald Trump is looting us in broad daylight. You know what?

He's not shooting someone on Fifth Avenue. He's mugging the American people on Fifth Avenue. - With 1,000x, I mean, 10,000x, with the amount of looting that they're doing. I want to throw this is the last thing

for you to Martha. And just just felt like Chris Hayes is kind of a stand-in for JVL right now. And Chris Hayes is playing the JVL role on the next level.

And so I just want to kind of insert him via absencia. - Welcome, Chris. - He said this tweet that I just, to just, I was like, wow, very rarely do you see a tweet to make sure you go, hmm.

Maybe this is right, Chris. I'm starting to become convinced that Trump's a monomer maniacal obsession with the ballroom bunker is because he plans on barricade against self inside there.

I'm just trying to, (laughing) Boom.

“I mean, is that the craziest thing that's ever said?”

I don't know. - No. - I love this idea. - He wants a nice bunker. - If somebody else is now president and Trump just lives next door in the ballroom,

and he like haunts it. He's over there ranting and throwing ketchup against the walls and blaring Fox News. And we all have to just tolerate him until he dies being old.

- Well done, James Trump. - Yeah, yeah. - It's kind of like a man in the president and his dad doesn't leave. - I think he feels kind of like how Benadect moves

to the president. - He did get one of us. - That's right. - I feel like the people are parkments, maybe? - I don't know.

- Trump did not like him. - It is important to remember. It's important to say that I don't think I've mentioned in the ballroom discussion. Trump did not like the accommodations in the bunker

when he was hiding from the George Floyd protestors. - That's a good thing he's been in a bunker. - He's been in a bunker. - Yeah, he hit.

“- He hit during the Black Lives Matter protests”

like a little bitch. And when he was down there, he was like, you know, not enough gold for him. The marble was all wrong. You know, it was spelled a little dank.

And so I do think he's looking for a better place to hide, maybe. I don't think that's crazy. - I mean, that's a contingency plan. - As a contingency plan, he wants to make sure

if he's got a hide again. 'Cause he has experience hiding. He knows that hiding is possible that he wants it to be nice. - No.

- I know we are going to people who listen to this and say like, oh, you're crazy. Here's my question. If Trump was planning on staying beyond

the conclusion of a second term,

what would he be doing differently? - He's not mine. - Right? - He basically would be doing the same sort of stuff he's doing now.

- He might be trying to be more popular. - He might be trying to govern in such a way that he wasn't it 35%. - I gotta try it about that today. I'll let you go.

- Okay, great, go. Go hunting. - I do love this theory though,

“'cause it's sort of like the way all my friends”

right now, right? We're of a certain age where many of our parents are aging and everybody's building ADUs. For their parents, they're like, little houses behind there.

- Trump building himself an ADU. - Love the idea of somebody. There's building Trump a little, well, anti-house to go, to go live in. - All right.

- Thanks guys, bonus next level at the top of the board, podcast and Tuesday, we'll be back next Tuesday for the next level, podcast that is out every Tuesday evening. So if you haven't subscribed to that feed, go do it. This is about average.

What you just got there? That's just generally the just, but it's usually like five X longer. Same type of material, but five X longer. - You know, just since we just did this whole riff,

and we were joking around, every time somebody clips us to try to make us, to try to criticize in some way. They did it the other, once someone is doing it to you,

the other day with your bit about how people over 65 shouldn't vote,

it is almost always when we're joking.

- It's like when we were, when I was ranking Ted Cruz or whatever, that one gets around now. And it's like, guys, we are screwing around with each other sometimes and can we just have fun

without everybody being like, this is what they call this comedy. - It's comedy, it's comedy, what else is there? The woman, everything is so fucked right now, the least we can do is have a little bit of fun

but more on our little podcast together. - That's right. - I'm hanging out with us. - Up next, Martha Rattitz, thanks, guys. - Bye.

(upbeat music) - Hey y'all, I'm in the middle of packing right now. We're heading out to our California shows. The bulk.com/events, if you haven't already count your tickets.

You should see the inside of my bag.

“I'm just dumping shit in there, I got microphones,”

I got cords, I got bricks, everything's all tangled up. And it gets a little bit aggravating, but I've been making some progress streamlining all this. Thanks to our friends at Ridge. That's like Ridge Revolutionized the wallet.

They've now changed the game for portable charging. They've got a five-in-one travel power bank with built-in cables, but you charge all your devices at the same time with just one power bank and no extra cables.

This is critical for everyone who like me

lives by the simple rule, ABC, always be charging. And this is your reminder. Father's Day is coming up. My dad's more of a practical gift kind of guy himself, you know, I like to get a little whimsical for me.

So if you're trying to think of your gift, your deck can actually use. Let's turn to Ridge, that five-in-one charger, or Ridge wallet went to back to the office last week in one of the gals, the office said that her husband

on the recommendation of this podcast got himself a Ridge wallet and he's loving it. So we'll go get one of those for your dad. One thing to pack, five ways to power,

“for a limited time, you know, to 40% off during Ridge's huge”

Father's Day sale at Ridge.com/thebowork. Don't miss one of their biggest discounts all year. Just head to Ridge.com/thebowork and you're all set. After you purchase, they'll ask we have heard about them.

Please support our show and tell 'em we sent you.

Do I have to welcome to the show chief global affairs correspondent for ABC News? She's been covering America's wars since 9/11. Also, co-anchor of the Sunday Show this week, her new book, The Hero Next Door Stories of Patriotism

and Purpose will be published next week and it's available for pre-order now. Go get it, it's Martha Rattitz. What's up, Martha? - Hey, how are you?

I have the good set behind me. I just want you to know that I've had that all along, not just for the book about Patriotism and Purpose. So, you've been flagged, you've been patriotic. - Yeah, it was from when you weren't flagged.

- Exactly, and it was, it's pretty cool that see that little fighter jet behind me. It was in that fighter jet over Afghanistan. So I thought it was kind of, I have to admit though, I copied David Mirro,

who has a flag in his office and thought it looked pretty great. - So stylish. - He is, he is. We all want to copy David Mirro. - So stylish. - But I find that mine was pretty cool.

- It's raining so much. - I know, let's compare to some others. I'm happy to have you on the show.

We've never done this, it's so good.

And I want to do a little bit of foreign policy talk. Obviously, you've been covering that and been abroad a bunch, covering the wars and we'll do the book as well. This is what I can get you're taking the latest

with the Iran War. This was Trump yesterday. I've been asked by the Amir of Qatar, the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, the President of the UAE,

to hold off on our plan to tack of Iran, which was scheduled for today, Tuesday. In that serious negotiations, we're now taking place. And in their opinion, a deal will be made,

which will be acceptable to US soon. The deal include no nuclear weapons for Iran. He's been saying this for quite some time now. I thought interestingly this morning, the Wall Street Journal reported that several Gulf officials

from some of the country's Trump mentions that they were not aware of the Amir of the Amir of Plan to attack Iran, he described. What's happening? What do you make of the state of play?

- Well, just as you say, Tim, we've heard that before. And we've heard that they're close to a deal before. Maybe they will bomb today. I don't know. It's very confusing to all of us to follow this.

And I'm sure it's confusing to Iran. And maybe that's the point, I don't know. It's one of those things that's impossible to predict. I mean, if people say to you, what do you think Trump will do?

I have absolutely no idea. I mean, it's chaotic in so many ways that it's hard to follow. And maybe that is the plan. But we have heard those predictions before.

I think I've had numerous officials on from the administration over the past couple of months

“talking about, I think Chris Wright said several weeks in.”

It would be over in a couple of weeks. We've heard the President say that. It's clearly far more complicated at this point than any of us thought it would be. And I have no idea what it's going to come next.

I think if there's a plan, if something's imminent, we'll see it, but we've heard that before. So it's impossible to predict what's going on. Seems like a bluster boy who cries all situation. The interesting thing for me about it

is just the sighting of the President being influenced by Qatar and Saudi and the UAE. What's your sense of that and the relationship and the influence of the Gulf States on what we're doing at this point?

I mean, clearly the Gulf States, whether they wanted it or not, we're very involved in this because many of them were attacked in the initial rounds by Iran, so they clearly have a stake in it.

to help mediate this in some way or another,

just as Pakistan is doing now. Again, it's one of those things behind the curtain. This is the most opaque curtain I've seen in many decades because maybe they're saying things to sort of fool Iran. Maybe they're trying to make it up, right?

If there's a plan, we don't know. If there's a plan, we certainly don't know. And you hear different things. I mean, the crazy thing about the reporting on this is it's accurate at the time and maybe two hours later,

it's not accurate. It changes, it changes that fast. You covered the Pakistan negotiations over there. I had a couple of interesting questions about that. I can the one hand, like why Pakistan was so central

to the negotiations in the original ceasefire, it seemed as if Trump did a similar thing to how he's doing now with Qatar,

which is like he posted this.

I've been requested. Pakistan has asked me to consider a ceasefire for two weeks so they can help negotiate a solution, but it kind of seemed like Trump asked Pakistan to do that, not the other way around.

Like what's your sense of what's happening with that? - That's some of the reporting that I have gotten is that he asked. Those were pretty serious negotiations. They really were.

The Pakistanis were very involved in this. They were held at this place, the Serenia Hotel. Iranian delegation on one side, JD Vance and his group of negotiators on the other side. But I flew there, it took about 24 hours

because when you fly to Pakistan now

“and you have to go away down and avoid the Middle East”

because we're at war. And was there for about 24 hours and came all the way back for 24 hours? I think clearly they wanted to get something done. JD Vance was serious about that.

The Iranian seems serious about that, but nothing happened. I think one of the biggest differences and there are so many differences in foreign policy these days, but for decades, if somebody went over to negotiate or particularly somebody very high ranking went over

to negotiate, they had something already agreed to where they thought they would walk out of there. That didn't happen this time, whether the president's statement now, something's imminent, we're going to have this deal.

I think because we've heard that before, we just don't know what's happening. It was interesting that he didn't send JD Vance again and didn't want him to go over there. So maybe that was sort of a lesson learned,

but the state of these negotiations, clearly they've got huge gaps at this point, unless, of course, in two hours, they agreed to something, Tim. - Yeah, I don't think, I who knows,

what's happening inside Iran, it's kind of just as lowly read the Iranian proposal and then I've related question.

Here's what they put out about an hour ago.

There are terms include five demands. U.S. troops leaving areas close to Iran, U.S. playing war reparations, lifting sanctions on Iran, releasing Iran's frozen assets, and ending the U.S. blockade.

I'd say we're pretty far apart based on those negotiations. And I just think it's like one interesting part of this,

“and I think it's a reporter who's been doing this for a long time,”

I'm just wondering how you navigate this is it's like, it's hard to trust what is true coming out of either party in this situation, right? I can trump his answers in the question. - And he's definitely Iran.

- Yeah, right, yeah. - I have been in Iran numerous times, and it is a house of mirrors. And same thing, you can sit down and obviously the senior leadership is a little disrupted right now,

but you can sit down with anybody, and you can, they can just frankly, just light your face about what's going on. But what is clearer than ever is they need money. They really want those sanctions lifted.

They really want reparations played. They're money that's been frozen released. And that is exactly what the Trump administration does not want to do. I mean, they not only don't want to give the Iranians

that money, they don't want that storyline that they gave the Iranians money, because that's been one of the storylines that the Trump administration has put out about the Obama administration

that they released those frozen assets.

“So I think they're very careful about that.”

I mean, will they decide that maybe the carries will somehow come in and help them out on that, the Saudis, or whoever they can get to kind of bridge that gap between what Iran wants and what's the US wants.

But I think the money is absolutely a sticking point for the Iranians. I think they give up something, but they need something in return. And I think that's where the truth lies in all of this,

but they are, as you said, Tim, I mean, they seem to be very far apart. - I mean, Trump has gotten some to a situation when I think it's going to be hard to get out of it without giving them money.

Honestly, I mean, based on the control of the straight,

covering this closely, covering the state department,

we surprised by just like the lack of a pitch to the public about this, the lack of preparation for contingencies. I mean, it did, I seemingly come out of nowhere, and now when a situation where it feels like they might

have to pay off Iran to get out of it. - Well, we'll see about that, but yes, I guess the lack of engagement about Iran before we go to war was surprising in a lot of ways. I will say without question, I agree,

and this will not surprise you that the US military has tactically done a remarkable job. They had perhaps because they still have not said whether or not that school was hit by US forces, Bill McCraven, I had on our show recently,

and said he thought it was taking longer, then it usually would to investigate something like that.

“- Well, that's because they're lying about it, right?”

I mean, it was a time-ahawk missile hit the school.

We can just say that, right? I mean, who else's time-ahawk was it? - Yeah, there was certainly time-ahawks in that region. I have not done any sort of investigation,

but we are waiting, and they absolutely should come out and say, who was responsible for that, because that's an important thing to do. It's an important thing not only for us to know, but for US service members to know as well.

- Obviously, they aren't being forthcoming about this. I'm just pretty easy to know, like they know whether or not we hit the school. I will assert that we did, we can see, but like they know, it's not like this takes a deep

investigation, it's not like they're searching for a, it's like a CSI Miami channel. - It has been months, it has been months. - So they know, and they can't do battle damage assessment. - It's vegan battle damage assessment,

and I guess, I'm curious about this. And look, your book, which we'll get to, is a lot of talking about people that you've met, reporting over the years, and Ukraine, and Afghanistan, other places, more zones.

It doesn't feel like they're giving you guys a lot of access to this, and there's a lot of mystery around how much damage has been done to our military installations in the region. They've been forthcoming, I guess,

about the people who've died in action, but about the injuries, like with the nature of the injuries, or, you know, doesn't feel like they're hiding the ball more than in past conflicts.

- We certainly have not had access at this point, to anything other than the occasional press conference at the Pentagon, we haven't seen other than targeting, other than successful targeting, we have not seen anything or been able to go talk

to our troops, to be on a ship, or to be at a base somewhere that has not happened. I, for one, would love to be there,

“but I think it's not only important to report that,”

it's important for Americans to know what it is exactly we are doing, and I understand their places that it's difficult for us to get to, it's difficult for us to get out to a ship, and we don't wanna interrupt ongoing operations,

but I think it's vitally important that Americans see what is going on, especially in those bases. As far as the injuries, I will say that is not unusual, that's a privacy concern

for individuals as well. They don't often tell you what kind of injuries happen, they'll say life-threatening or not life-threatening, but very generally do not tell you exactly what happened, but I wanna know what happened at those bases,

I wanna know what the protection was. I wanna see it myself, and that is something that I've tried to do forever, it's like in Iraq, and Afghanistan, wait a minute, you told us this, but can we actually see that?

And when you can see it, then you can accurately report it, and tell you can see it, you're, you know, you're at a loss. - And when it comes to not giving access, you're the Washington Post exclusive Evan Hill, about a week and a half ago now,

saying you're on the an air strikes of damage or destroyed at least 228 structures or pieces of equipment at US military sites across the Middle East, since War began, hangers, barracks, guilty posts, et cetera.

Like this came from satellite images, though, like not from reporting, and I do think that shows the extent of just how much you all are not being given access to what's actually happening on the ground. - That was pretty extraordinary reporting,

and that is exactly what we want to know more about.

I mean, what is the cost of this, and I always believe

that people deserve to know those details about what we're doing in line. - I'm gonna pop into a couple of the other places that you've been reporting from overseas. Obviously, kind of related to what's happening

in Iran is what's been happening in Israel. We have Netanyahu has said that Israel's expanding as control of Gaza to 60% of Gaza, despite the US broken ceasefire. Did you last week agreed on sanctions,

“targeting and violence really settlers in the West Bank?”

I think, obviously, BB is a player in these negotiations

still wanna continue the war, even if Trump doesn't. Like what's your sense of kind of like how the situation

“in Israel is interplaying with what's going on with Iran?”

- Yeah, everything seems tied together. There's no question about that. I've been covering the Middle East for many, many, many decades, and it is always a maze.

It is always difficult to figure out exactly what's going on,

but right now, especially so, and I think one of the hardest parts again is there's not a lot of focus on what's happening in Israel right now because of what's happening in Iran, and they are certainly interconnected.

I mean, we certainly know that Israel was involved in the war in Iran and how does that tie in to where they go or whether they go back into Gaza? I'm really not being much helped him. I feel like I'm saying, we don't know.

And I think that is new, and I've been, I'm usually optimistic about everything, and I'm always sort of pessimistic about peace there, and whether or not it is a lasting peace of any kind. But clearly, Ignat Yahu has a saying

what we're doing in Iran, everybody is getting frustrated by the straight-of-war moves, certainly Americans are, and our Gulf allies, and everybody oversees as well. - So, right, obviously, you can't predict

we can't predict what exactly how BB's calculations are going to impact what's happening with Iran. Israel itself, though, and this is some you've been covering a long time,

about I think you're first over there during the first Intafata, right? I haven't even-- - I was, I was, I was a young reporter in 1988. It actually wasn't even the first time I was over there,

but covered the first Intafata. One of the things I did over those years,

which is incredible in which might reveal my pessimism

is because the people I met in 1988 on every side, on the Palestinians, on the IDF, and settlers, and Americans who had moved over there, they were all, you know, sort of Kumbaya at the time, we can all get together, we can all love each other,

and over the decades, it's only gotten worse, and they've only hardened their own lines on, on every side.

“And I think that, I mean, I was a pretty naive young reporter,”

then, and sort of figured I'd go back and see these same people, and I remember the Jewish family that I had staying touched with from Boston, and she was the mother who went over there, saying, "All peace, and it'll be great, and had little kids."

Obviously, like 20 years later, they were teenagers in college and everything, and she started really just absolutely trashing

the Palestinians, and I said, "Do you want to talk like that

in front of your kids?" And she said, "Oh, they're way more hardcore than I am." So it is sort of seeing the generations over there, and the conflicts that continued and what's happening, that they have completely hardened,

and then October 7th, and that horrible, horrible thing, which I was over there within days to see that as well. Here we are again. - Yeah, tragedy. Yeah, and to me, the West Bank right now

is a little bit kind of under covered, under focused on and you're over there, and the difference just between, you're talking about kind of how people whether it be on the Israeli side or the Palestinian side kind of like thought about their role,

and their community and their neighbors, and how different that is from 1988, but just how aggressive the Israeli settlement actions have been in the West Bank, and the ability travel and back and forth to the West Bank,

it's pretty kind of shocking what's been happening there,

“and I think because of the intensity of what happened in Gaza,”

and Iran, it gets a little bit lost. - I would love to cover everything every minute every day. I go back there as often as I can to tell those stories, but we seem to move from one conflict to another right now, and one headline to another,

and we're kind of doing the best we can of keeping track of all that, but it is certainly a place that I'd like to go back and see that. - Just like I thought something was happening in Ukraine. We've seen some particular changes, I think, in the last couple of weeks,

what's going to be the Ukraine War, as far as Ukraine's now hitting deeper into Russia, they had a massive weekend aerial attack in the Moscow suburbs, and it killed three people in Moscow and that hit so oil refinery there,

the defeat of Orban, like released EU funds, he had been blocking EU funds for Ukraine, so more resources, it feels like the Ukrainians feel less curved by the Americans or whatever concern about aggravating the Americans of European,

so they become more aggressive, and it feels like potentially some momentum is changing in the war there. I know you've been over there as well, a bunch over the last few years,

just wondering what your thoughts are on the state of play

- I think you are right, I think they have become more aggressive in the last few weeks.

“I think I've interviewed Zelensky numerous times,”

and I think even prior the last time, I interviewed him, which I think was on September,

and it was kind of the first time he talked

coast Alaska, post the office visit. I think he was a little less hesitant to talk about his feelings about the US, and I think in the months that have followed his posture towards the war has as well.

Because I can't even, maybe I'm not gonna get the help I need from the US, maybe I'm not gonna get the help I need from you. I just need to move forward, but at the same time they've been more aggressive, I mean, they had that unbelievable

the Russian sending all those drones in the other night, and it is so heartbreaking, particularly there in Kiev, that has come under attack, but most of the time you can drag around Kiev and not worry about it.

And I think that has changed. I mean, the Russians are just sending everything they got into Kiev because they know that, that will make a difference.

“On the front lines, I think, by the way,”

we haven't seen so much from the front lines, the other point is it's unbelievably dangerous to do that right now, I know some people have done it, but they just have to get more aggressive at this point. I mean, Zelensky wakes up every single day

and is dedicated to winning that war and helps people understand it. I mean, his resilience in that and in that goal seems unwavering. And Ukrainians as well, but at some point,

it's, you know, particular if you start really taking down a major city like Kiev, if you start really causing damage that scares people every day, look, they're used to it. And when I go, you're used to like going to the shelter, you know, three times a night or something.

They get very used to that, they end up sleeping on those shelters, which is kind of what we eventually did. But it's unbelievable to me how long it's lasted. It shouldn't be, but it is. And the night it started and I got a text from a very senior

military officer who said, you're there in the last few hours of peace on the European continent for a long time to come and I thought, yeah, I'll probably take at least a year. And of course that night we thought the Russians would move in completely, and that didn't happen.

But it is just a horrible grind. And, you know, we talked a little bit about what I want to talk about too, I think, all these wars.

“And I think the thing that struck me the last time I was there”

was that one of the physical therapists there who's working with amputees and Ukraine said he thought at the end of this war, there would be 100,000 amputees in Ukraine. - You can sit in an outdoor cafe in Levy for Kiev.

And within a period of 30 minutes you'll see three or four guys walking by with amputeesians. They were multiple three limb amputations of multiple people I saw. And the other thing people forget is they don't have the ADA.

They don't have wheelchair ramps over there. They don't have anything to help people. So that is a generation of young men who are going to have a disability for the rest of their lives. And it is going to change that country it already has.

And just the loss over there is incredible.

I mean, there are so many people who have died that the scope of that is something we don't even understand that we haven't suffered in decades and decades and decades. - 100,000 is hard to get your head around. So that's struck me about there's this video going around

from like there was like a five K or something in Gaza to and if like you really looked at it. - And Gaza is what you have? - Yeah, the number of amputees and that five K I was just watching and I was like holy shit.

- And the children there, I mean, there's been the loss of limbs and how you end up in it. It's like, you know, we see largely the stories of hope. And I certainly try to do that as well when I go to Ukraine. And you said five K, there's a guy who just got a prosthetic leg

and ran the five K and then I went to another facility

that wasn't as well equipped just the one I came to first.

And that's when I thought I don't know what's gonna happen to these guys was zero arms and one leg. I mean, they're just not is the infrastructure there and certainly not in Gaza as well. - All right, it's a media stuff then we get to the book

and get you out of here. This might seem offensive but I don't mean it's a stick with me. - Okay, it's just about you. - Don't worry, there it is, yeah, it's just about you.

It's about them. I genuinely don't understand why the Trump administration officials are doing your shows anymore.

It's just a commentary on like, they've broken so many other norms. They, it's very challenging. The interviews are very challenging when they go on. Like Trump could just be in his own bubble,

which is something that he's done. There's plenty of right-wing media outlets to go to. Like what is your sense for what they're trying to get out of coming on your shows? - I think probably what everybody does.

I mean, it's a way to try to get your points across.

“I think it's great that they have not exited shows like ours.”

I do. It certainly gives us a chance to try to get questions answered.

Like anybody, you don't always get them answered the way you want.

But to even face that challenge, I mean, it's surprising in some ways, but seriously, I'm pretty happy they keep doing that. And it doesn't mean we have to have that person on or it's up to us in the end,

whether we want those Trump administration officials on. And we always do. I mean, it is somebody we can challenge it as someone you can get a clear view of the Trump administration and what their goals are.

So I'm grateful that they keep offering people. I don't know what anyone wants to get out of this, except to try to get your points across and whatever policy. - How do you prep for those interviews?

- But the administration is a different from other types of interviews. - It's not. It's like you, you're trying to get answers from people and try to predict what how they'll answer

and try to have a comeback for that. - But do you do that? You predict like you go through and have like a little document or you just do it in your head.

- Yes, I try to do my homework as much as possible about what I think they might say.

“It's hard to predict honestly with anybody.”

But there's some, I mean, it's pretty easy when Chris Wright, the month into the war said it's gonna end in two weeks and you have 'em on two months later or administration official

that you're gonna come back with that. And I also think, you know, we talk about no access to seeing what's happening with the war. I also think just anything and any way you can give people more information

that I trust the viewers to know,

like I always have this thing in my head.

I'm not gonna ask somebody the same question eight times or then it becomes about me. I'm gonna ask them and trust the viewers understand whether that question has been answered or not. And it's, okay, this person is not answered the question.

I think it's very clear they're pivoting or they're pivoting this way or that way. So you heard it, I heard it, they didn't answer the question, let's move on, you know, it is that fine line of trying to make sure you stay on point

or get where you can, whether you get it or not, I think the information is out there. - To worry about being used on that front though, like if you're not following up enough that they're taking advantage of you or whatever.

- Well, hopefully I'm following up enough. So that is, that crosses party lines. - That's right. - I mean, the same thing when you say, well, they want to get their points across,

are you being used? I mean, are they being used? I just don't think about it that way. I just, I think about it in terms of I do my best to try to get the information I want to get

“for the viewers and that's how the little polyannish,”

but it's true. I mean, I will get as much as I can. I know that nobody's gonna come on and make some great revelation and, you know, I'm gonna come on and thank goodness you asked me that question.

I've always been waiting to have that question

kind of thing on any interviews like that. But, you know, there are times and that you get information. You get information that's important. So.

- Well, if you have any tips for how to get them on the show or any secrets, you just let me lie off line 'cause, you know, Mike Wallace, Mike Wallace doesn't wanna come on the board of podcasts. I know you can't, I know that's hard to believe.

He doesn't, he doesn't, Mike Wallace, you're welcome. Anytime, Chris Wright, you're welcome. - He answers questions, you get information from him, but yeah, yeah, keep trying to have good luck to you. - Okay, we'll work on it.

The last thing on this is the listeners we have set for an ask you about, like, how do you think about the question of talking about Trump's age and covering Trump's age? Obviously there's been an issue at the last two presidents now.

You know, Trump is, you know, in some ways, kind of acted unusually for his whole career, right? So sometimes maybe it's hard to disaggregate, you know, what is happening, but I was watching, there's actually a clip of you.

I was gonna, it was ended up being kind of dumb. It was Trump was like making fun of the media and he mentioned you and I was like going back to watch it to see if that would be worth talking about and it wasn't.

But what struck me about it was it was from 2016. And he looked like a lot younger, actually. Like I felt like he looked old in 2016, but if you watch it now, you know, and rewatch those clips.

And he obviously has age significantly and it's kind of wondering how you think about coverage.

- As a person, he's also aging.

And probably if you look back to 2016, you see a difference as well. But I mean, one of the things we try very hard to do is like just report what we see, what the facts are. You get to say whatever you want to.

You get to do commentary. You get to have an opinion. I don't think that's my job. - But the facts are like the bruises. I mean, they're facts.

- We cover it, do we cover it? - Yes. I mean, I look back at during the Biden administration and debate that I did with Paul Ryan and Joe Biden from 2012. He was a different guy.

He was without question, a different guy from 2012 to when he served. - Was literally just talking about that this weekend with somebody. - Yeah, I mean, if you went back and watched that debate, it was vintage Joe Biden and covering him in later years.

“I think that's another thing that people can,”

people can see what they see. And people are gonna make up their minds and we are just gonna report the president said this today. The president, you know, I'm not gonna go back and take a whole video and look at him here

and look at him there. People can make up their minds on that. You go ahead and do those things, Jim, but we'll stick to it. - I mean, honestly, I feel like it was, that probably should have been talked more about both presidents.

And I think that there were objective ways to do it. That's my opinion, it's not about like offering commentary. It's just about like watching what happened. And he's been to the dentist three times this year for a murder of the same.

- Watch what happens, you can see it. You can let people make their own commentary. - The book is the hero next door. Talk to me about why you did it. You kind of alluded to it a little bit,

but give us the elevator pitch. - Yeah, okay, these are 10 people who I've met in my career covering more. And some of them are service members, some of them are family members.

I feel like this 9/11 generation that was thrown in to these kind of endless wars, certainly in Afghanistan, to the very disorganized and chaotic and tragic ending there.

The serve to be looked at without the burden of politics, without the burden of how these wars ended up, why we got into those wars. The thing that I really also felt strong about is, these are people who I'm lots of them I met two decades ago.

And they were maybe wounded in battle, they maybe weren't, but there was sort of some life-changing event. And I wanted to see what happened to them 20 years later, five years later.

And in many cases,

they're what they did on the day that they'll never forget.

They've done even more courageous things since. And it is that I like that word, patrioticism, I like that word, purpose.

“And I want people to remember that that is who they are”

and who our American military is. They, for those 20 years, have kept trying to find purpose. And it's really hard for people in the military. It is.

Or there's a story of a mother who's cared for her son, who I've known since shortly after he had a terrible brain injury. She was 49 years old at the time when her 20-something son was disabled. She's 70 now, and he is still at home with her,

and she has taken care of him every day. I've presented these people to a lot of these heroes, which they hate that were hate-hated,

and it is always emotionally moving.

It's not just story of the mother, it's a fighter pilot who people just think, oh, a fighter pilot, it's Tom Cruise, and just sort of the sensitivity they have in their missions, or why they joined. I asked a couple of them the other day,

just to talk about service and why they do, why they serve it. When they serve, and this young female fighter pilot just said, "Constitution," I took an oath to the Constitution.

“That's why I served, it's as simple as that.”

So they're incredibly inspiring people, and I just think it's important for Americans to connect. It really do, and I've always felt a kind of a bridge between that world, the military, and civilian world, I didn't grow up with any military, my family,

and you really nothing about it. But I feel like it's so important for civilians to be connected to our military, our volunteer military, and for them to be connected to us. Only 1% serve, they have done some extraordinary things.

And they deserve to be heralded in ways that Americans normally don't do. And when I think back of Iraq, and Afghanistan, thank you for your service, thank you for your service.

A couple of these guys are still active, duty, but they're still finding purpose. And I, Marine, it was paralyzed.

“It's still invented some life-saving techniques,”

a neurosurgeon who helped save my friend Bob Woodruff's life when he got blown up in 2006. It's now going to Ukraine two or three times a year, and doing brain surgery on the Ukrainian wounded. I mean, that is purpose.

That is, I'm still going to serve. I'm still going to find a way to do good things. And I think when I look at them,

it makes me never feel sorry for myself.

First of all, about anything, but it also gives me motivation, and I hope others, to just want to do better, and to continue to serve, and our own ways, to continue to contribute in our own ways, and they're just really inspiring people.

And it's not like, you know, the title is kind of the hero next door. It's, these are profoundly serious and hopeful stories. And what they overcame to do, what they do now, is pretty remarkable, and I just think it's lessons we can all learn from.

I struck by that story of the Ukrainian brain surgeons. I was going to ask you about that, but since you mentioned him, I want to ask you about one other one. Person you profiled is Derek Herrera. I always have moved by stories of people who,

like, get a second or third act in life, like where something happens, and they kind of summon the energy to go out and do something new. I don't know, I'm being in middle age, I guess. I see how hard it is for people to do that,

who are facing far less challenging circumstances than Derek, but you know, whoever had a rough patch for whatever reason that happens with life. And you know, you write about how his life remembers that, you know, she just married this intensely driven guy

who just didn't know where to direct his ambitions after he got injured at war. And I saw maybe you could just share a little bit of his story. - Derek was a marine who got shot, but helped evacuate the rest of the marine's,

well, they were evacuating him. He was paralyzed, he is still paralyzed. It's one of those things that I think people don't realize that Derek, you know, you probably didn't realize almost as long as he wasn't paralyzed.

“I think he probably had two or three months of saying,”

why me? And then got to work. He's actually who I was talking about and inventing things that help others. I love the fact that Derek, again, was proud of his leadership

as a marine and trying to figure out the next step, said, I want to do something that uniquely I can do or I'm familiar with. He's now very familiar with being paralyzed. He is in a wheelchair and he invented something

that helps people get tests for urinary problems. Because he will tell you in a minute that the biggest problem is not that he can't walk, but it's that it's very difficult and painful, not painful to urinate.

And that catheters are horrible and it's humiliating and everything about that. And he has helped find a way to improve that not only for paralyzed people, disabled people, men and women, but everybody who has urinary tract problems.

Now that may be like, whoa, you're talking about that from some service member, he will proudly sit down and show you a little model of male genitalia and how this will all work. And it's captivating.

I mean, he's just done amazing things.

“And that's what, I mean, no one would have any idea”

of Derek did that. And that's what's heroic to me that they've gone on and done something particularly like in middle age. It's like, and not only are you in middle age guys, this guy is paralyzed and doing it.

They also went on to have kids. I mean, it's just an incredible story and he is an incredible human being. - It really was an incredible story. I reckon people go read it.

And I'm like, getting, helping people to get their male genitalia to work is pretty important service. Okay, as well. - Okay, it's an important part of the whole...

- Oh, yeah. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Yeah, yeah. - Experience. I got a little mad.

I'm gonna get finally, for my final question, I'm getting into the commentary space again. So you can speak about this as much as you want. But I'm a little mad today, having you on thinking about these people in the book.

I was reading at this morning, and it really isn't spiring. And it's like simultaneously to be reading this book, our government has created a settlement fund

where they've taken $1.8 billion of our tax money.

Some of the people in your book's tax money and they're gonna just give it to Donald Trump's friends and people that storm the capital in January 6th. And we don't actually know who they're gonna give it to. They can give it to whoever they want.

That's a pretty stark contrast. When you think about the types of people who maybe deserve reparations from our government and who's getting them.

treating our residents.

“- I am not, I'm not gonna go in the space you want me to go,”

but you keep, you keep talking about it, but I'm gonna tell you what these people who are right about deserve, that deserve help in every way.

It is incredible to me that there have to be fundraisers,

every year, to help people who should just be taking care of for the last 20 years. That I'm on the board of the Bob Wooder fund. We've foundation, we've raised millions and millions and millions of dollars to help people who I wish

“could have money to help themselves without having”

to depend on those private fundraisers.

They deserve everything that anybody could give them.

They have earned it, they don't ask for anything, and the country should take care of them, or at the very least, respect them, and we'll see what happens to that fund. - I agree with that.

That's Martha Rattas, the book, as called the hero next door. We had a little tech glitch in the middle of this, so she'll a little different background, but we fought through it. We did give her a person figure.

- We fought through it, we changed the angle a little bit. It's okay, who would think that a network television station we'd have trouble with the internet.

But we get on the air every night, it's amazing.

We just don't do this stuff. - Yeah, you do get on the air every night. You made it into China, even. All right, we appreciate it. Martha Rattas, thank you so much for all of your time,

“and I hope to have you back another time, all right?”

- Thanks Tim, appreciate it. - All right, thanks so much for the emergency assist from JBL and Sarah, and also to Martha Rattas for debut appearance on the pod. We will be back tomorrow with,

maybe in a abbreviated edition, I'm traveling out to California, we're gonna do our best, so we'll see you all then. - It'll, if it is abbreviated, it'll be a banger and abbreviated,

so see you all tomorrow, peace. (upbeat music) - The board podcast is brought to you. Thanks to the Lord, of lead producer Katie Cooper, associate producer Ansley Skipper,

and with video editing by Katie Lutz, an audio engineering in editing by Jason Brown.