Wright Thompson and Jesse Lehrich: Hopium and Hate

Hello, and welcome to the Bullwerke Daily. I'm your host, Tim Miller. We have a massive double header for you today in segment two. It's LSU Ole Miss, hate week, go Tigers, and I brought in the best sports rider of my generation, the best cultural commentator on the intersection of sports and politics

and history, particularly in the south. It's right Thompson, couldn't be more excited to have him back on the show. He is in segment two, he'll be coming at his live from the Delta Lounge. But we're still going to make it sound pretty in your ears. All right, so do stick around for right, just some really touching stuff at the end.

But first we got to do politics and news.

He was a Democratic strategist, now he's a streamer. He's a spokesperson for Hillary's 2016 campaign. That one didn't go well as I recall. His show, it's called Nobody knows anything, he writes a newsletter called Nobody's Listening. That's not true.

I'm listening. It's just like what's up now. Thanks so much, Tim. I appreciate your listening. You and my mom.

What is your age? What is your birth year? What is I was born in 1989? I was born in 1989. This counts.

Yeah, I was trying to go a little younger than that for my young, my series of young political codes. But it counts. I had him gentle since it was last week, and then he's older than me.

Basically we're just trying to get younger than Axelrod and Carvelle.

No shit. I can do that. I can do that. We're grandfathering anybody in that was born after the Gerald Ford presidency. There we go.

We're going to do midterms, 28 stuff, and so I just have the biggest picture. Where are you at? On the midterm state of play, are you bed wetting? Are you? Hope you am huffing.

Where are you at? I'm definitely hope you am huffing. I'm still relatively low on the Democratic Party writ large.

“I think the long-term prospects could you some work?”

You're saying a 22 redox kind of for the Democrats do very well, but didn't fix our underlying brand issues. Exactly. We do the thing where we win a bunch of races, we had no business winning, and then everyone's like, oh, I guess we fixed everything, and then we lose to a fascist.

And, you know, bull work blows up again, you know, that everyone wants. Okay. Well, that's not what we want, just to be clear. That's what I love. I mean, honestly, had come a win for one, for example, the only person that would suffer

would be you, because I wouldn't have had you on the podcast. We would have just done right Thompson, it would have been a boring day. We would have talked only about LSU Ole Miss, because nothing would be happening. Yeah. And so it would be great for me, by the way.

I would trade that. Totally. It sounds like a much better life. I mean, right Thompson's a far more interesting person than I am. You're doing great.

Thanks. Okay.

“I want to go through the races, but first, I think we have a sense for how things are”

going based on how the vice president framed up his pitch to the electorate yesterday. Let's watch a little bit of that. There's a lot of good that's been done, but there's a lot of work left to do. Don't give power to the people who cause the problems that we're fixing. Give us another chance or give us another couple of years to continue to work on the

amazing things that we've been doing for the past two years. Give us another chance. Give us another swing. How would that? Folks, person, how would you tell your principal about that?

I mean, it's about as good as you can do when you've overseen the greatest gas price surge of pointless war. You have negative charisma, nobody's happy with any of the things you're doing. Give us another chance. We'll do better.

I mean, my first worst pitch is not that many of them, and I've been on some pretty bad campaigns. But yeah, man, I don't know, when you've got the diesel price up of about seven bucks, I was talking to somebody last night, it's kind of transition us into the map, like I started somebody from Alaska, but it just kind of gave me a briefing on that race, because

I never did a campaign in Alaska.

I don't know what the fuck's going on up there. It's one of the states that I've been to, so I was like trying to just, you know, make sure I wasn't, you know, because I've been kind of fan-growing Mary Peltola's campaign, but it's like, but sometimes I worry about that.

“It's like if you're appealing to me too much, is that like a bad sign, right?”

For like graduating with Alaska voters, and so I was asking about this, and it's like, dude, is it the home heating like costs up here? Is it the cost for this winter, you know, it goes like, it's going to cost like 10 grand for me to heat my house this winter with the increased prices. And I just, I do think that there's like really tangible issues that are dealing with

a lot of these places. Totally. I mean, we saw it for, you know, Joe Biden trying to run for reelection and telling everyone they're doing fine economically, you know, Trump has been masterfully successful at deluding people and, you know, selling himself, you know, on personality and charisma.

But there's, there's one thing that you can't really spin people on, and that's whether or not that can afford to pay their fucking bills, you know, and just brow-beating people into saying that the economy is great when they're paying $10,000 to heat their home, you

That's a tough sell. All right. So let's do the math.

Let's look at the set of math.

I mean, where are you at right now? Gun to head. Nobody knows anything. Your, your, your, your live stream podcast, YouTube show, whatever we're going to call it.

That was our clarity. Friend of the show is literally called nobody knows anything, so it's like there's no cost you being totally wrong. So just don't, don't, don't hedge. I'm not talking.

“Today, right now, where are you at on the set of math?”

I think that Democrats will win almost all of these contested races. I mean, these things tend to tip, you know, all in one direction in these way of years. I was working, uh, counter to you at American Bridge while you were doing America rising back in 2014. Oh, yeah.

And we went from being like, Michelle Dunn is going to win. And Allison, London and Grimes is going to take Mitch McConnell. Oh, my god. What a name for the past. Allison, London and Grimes.

Kentucky Senate nominee in 2014. And then, like, all of September and October, it was just like ISIS illegal. It's our climbing under the border wall and, and infecting you with Ebola and, like, every Democrat at last, by, you know, and we were like, praying that Mark Warner could hang on. So I, I, I really think, like, I think Iowa will be tough.

I think, but I think, like, Alaska, I feel surprisingly good about Texas. I think Sherrod Brown is in great position in, you know, Ohio. And, you know, I feel confident, not confident. But I, I think Roger Marshall's going to go down in Kansas. I think Nebraska is a very seriously in play.

“I think South Carolina is very seriously in play.”

Come on. South Carolina, Annie Andrews, George Willed and Dorcer and the Washington Post yesterday. Keep in mind, Lindsey Graham was, like, super, super unpopular. So then you take all of the, like, the Magda people that hate Lindsey Graham Ralph Norman's

basically still out there being like, don't vote for this piece of shit.

And then on top of that, like, I mean, you have a candidate who has no political experience who, who thinks foreign policy questions are totally unfair because she is not involved in politics. Annie Andrews is good and the economy is in the, is in the trash. Like, I, I don't know, man, I, I'm not saying we're going to win South Carolina.

But I think South Carolina will be closer than Alaska because Peltola will win Alaska by six to eight points and really this is closer than this is over. I have to avoid this one. Hey, look, Dr. Andrews, we're going to be in South Carolina. Hope you're right.

I do have to say I'm a little bit burned when you were working for Hillary in 2016. And I, I had left my party and gone through a midlife crisis and got very high on my on supply going on cable news, beginning of my cable news career, telling all of my fellow Republican strategists that they, you know, signed up for disaster. Like, there's a clip of me that goes around on, I believe John Heilman's show on Bloomberg

talking about how Hillary was going to win South Carolina. Famously she lost the election and lost up going about like 100 points. And so I'm just, I'm a little bit once burned on the Palmetto State. I understand a lot, but you know, I, I really do think that like, we people are underestimating just how much of an albatross around people's next Trump is going to be.

“And then, you know, Darlin Graham, I think has some specific candidate deficiencies.”

You know, I do think any Andrews, I love her. She, she's, she's livin' out a little too much, like you kind of need to be a little bit more heterodox. Yeah. Can't just be like a resistance mom, if you're running in South Carolina.

You know what? Jay is into the bus.

Everybody's talking about always doing the transit of this.

And I feel bad as person to do that on a transport. It's like, and Dr. Andrews, it's okay. Like, whatever. We do some really offensive comment about the gaze, just to kind of say no. Like, that's totally.

We can, we walked out to one. I'm giving you permission. Totally. I do think we need more. I mean, like, it's been encouraging to see things like James Taloreco in Texas being, like,

yeah, I said a lot of crazy shit and actually trans women shouldn't play sports. And whatever else, I don't know, I can't play sports. I can't play sports. Yeah. I can't play sports.

I guess they can't play sports. They can't play sports. You didn't say that. This course on trans surgeries for minors, which I think is a reasonable position. You know, I don't think we should be throwing marginalized communities under the bus left and right.

But like, you got it. We want every position or place sports. Yeah. We're taking place sports that they want. They're going to be certain rules on certain kinds of sports, you know, contact sports.

If you've gone through puberty, I'm sorry. Like, they're just, you know, if it's if it's youth soccer, we can lump everybody together. Where would everyone want? You know, they just talk like a normal person. But, you know, he's pump it up the oil and gas industry.

Like, you can have to do things to distinguish yourself from the national democratic party. If you're running in a Trump plus 1314 state, and Mary's pelthal has been very good about this. Like, if she's fancy, she won't even come on my podcast because she's just like, I don't talk to anybody except Alaska. That's great.

That's great.

Tell us what you want to do.

Spurned me if you want. I mean, I'd love to have you either way. It's up to you then. I'm retired from campaigns, but I just think that the notion of like really separating yourself from the national party and really hyper localizing things is totally point.

She dunks on the entire lower 48, you know, she's like, fuck all of these people. Well, I'm going to make the Jesse 270 to win map. I'm doing it live. We'll put it up on screen for people. She's all blue.

Yeah. So you've got Alaska plus six to eight. That's a win. Tellerico, you have a win.

“I think tellerico wins by like a point or two.”

Okay. Sherrod, you have a win. Sherrod, I think we'll win. You want to come back to Abdul, but do you think he's a win?

Yes, but unnecessarily close win.

Okay. We'll come back to that. Main, Troy Jackson, you have a win. I think so. But Susan Collins is like the one that I feel better.

Okay. So you may be, you're maybe on this one. No. No, I don't think she can defy the national. No.

Okay. She've got Troy Jackson's win. Iowa. Iowa. I hate to say it, but I think Ashley Henson's going to pull it out by the point.

You think Ashley Henson's going to win? Okay. Good, Kansas, Mississippi with right, we're talking about Scott Colone. I love, I love Scott Colone.

“I think he's a absolutely 10 out of 10 candidate.”

I think, I think, and Ty Pinkens, and Ty Pinkens, the independent black guy who has run previously as a Democrat. I think he might pull a little bit of the vote. What's that guy doing? I'm not following that close enough.

I don't know. He's just like a weirdo, a total weirdo doing his own thing being a, being a ego maniac with, you know, detached from reality. All right. If you're in Mississippi, it's bringing the action on that, and it's true.

Everybody on your Facebook, and it's whatever he knows that this is not a person. It's a different way. Same with Montana, by the way, if a Lonnie Bankhead would get out of that race, which she has made abundantly clear, she will not Seth Bodger, could win that race, but, you know.

Yes, Seth Bodger is one of good. He's the guy that shot the flock cameras, and as I add, which I like, that's good. That's good. That's good signaling. I'm not a gun person.

I don't like guns. I would, I would melt them off. Yes, scares me to cold one, but to strategically speaking, if you're an independent candidate running in Montana, you're really touching a lot of buttons. If you're taken out the gun, and you're using it properly, and you're firing at a flock

camera. Totally. That's, that's right on.

“Remember that adds a John test or cut, where he would be like checking his Montana beef”

on his flight to DC, like you got to do some of that stuff. You got to do it. That's good. You got to signal. That was red.

Nebraska, Kansas, Mississippi, Montana, are you flipping any of these on your map? This will be on screen. Yes, yes. I think I think we will win both Nebraska and Kansas. Wow.

I mean, I don't know, Dan Osborne is an independent famously, so that would be what we're lumping him in because Bernie's also an independent, and it's just going to make them happy easier. So that would be 54, you have the Republicans at 46? Yeah.

Dan Osborne came within six and a half points. You ran 14 points. I had a Kamala Harris. That's just a totally different electorate. I'm going to do some real talk here.

I mean, I think that the gap, and who does, honestly, in this could be a situation, I think it's important to say, where kind of quality does matter on the margins, right? Like, carry Lake lost because the Republicans nominated in saying person, like in any other other person they nominated would have won, you know, in a good Republican year. Like, they're just our commercial locker, for example, we're about to get between 28.

We wouldn't be having the John Osolph-BOOM lit, had the Republicans not nominated such terrible people in Georgia, and he also loses the first shot. He's against Purdue. But, you know, and then you have walker against Warnock, like there are examples of this. So it can matter, and this is cutting a little closer.

Dan Osborne is not a virtual locker carry Lake, but Adam Hamilton is running like a million

times better, a race than Dan Osborne, who I don't have anything against personally. It seems like a very nice guy is ads were a really good last time. The Rickets campaign has successfully kind of branded him as just a generic Democrat, and he's running as an independent, I don't know, I wanted a little more of the vibes of shooting the gun at the flock camera from Dan Osborne, and I'm bearish on that race.

That's fair. I mean, I think he's more mild manner than I would like. He's not like angry. He should be angry, but he's like, he's a pretty good populist, you know? He like, all he does, just like tweet all day about like Tyson, beef, and like he can

someone show. He did, he did have the best setting for a podcast guest that I've ever heard. So it's like in his shop, while doing the podcast interview, which I did like, I'm hopeful that I'm wrong. I'm just, I'm just, I'm trying to be real, real radical canter on the board podcast.

So you've got 54 Democrats, all right. Yeah. I really think we are looking at like Democrats and democratically Democrats and totally independent independent. Yeah.

I really think we are like heading toward a Democrat plus 10 or plus 12 midterm, and I think

when you start to talk about Senate and House races that, you know, in places that Trump

carried by 10 to 15 points, you know, those are all going to be in play, especially in these places where we have like, Kansas is a great example. You know, Kansas is obviously still state that leans red, but you've got this super dynamic pastor who's running it, and it like lights out campaign and Roger Marshall is one of the worst incumbent Senate politicians I've ever seen in my life, you know, I mean,

he's horrible. He's running horrible. Well, I did, I went to correct myself. I don't think I've done this when I started a bill on Monday, we're doing the highlights from the debate.

I don't know where I saw it, I just saw it wrong. I thought that the Kansas State Bureau was in Johnson County. It is not at all, actually it's like three and a half hours in there, which is a significant correction because the point I was trying to make is like, okay, you know, Roger Marshall's getting food and shouted down, but like it is in Johnson County, but no, that is not

right. I don't know what county it's in. It's actually in Hutchinson, Kansas, which is, as I'm pulling up my map here and looking at it live, I'm just, I keep pressing the minus button to get further and further away to find something that is close to like the people that recognize, I mean, it's in the

middle of nowhere. It could like waste out, it's like it's whatever northwest of which it's like an hour or something. That's good. That's a good sign.

It's a good sign. Yeah, I was surprised by how good of a candidate Adam Hamilton. He seems like one of those guys that we would find on paper and be like, oh, we found a religious Democrat and everyone's gonna love him and then he'd be like as boring as like a cardboard cut out of a Democrat and it turns out he's super dynamic and he lands about

the best punch I've seen any Democrat land this cycle, he was dragging Roger Marshall at that thing.

“I really was with the highway to Monday if you want to listen to that.”

I want to go to the house stuff that just back to a dual real quick. Everybody knows that I have been, I've been kind of dragging the moderates for like making the Hassanpiker thing, a bigger deal than it should be and that's like what, like Hassanpiker has some bad views but also he was absolutely right about what the U.S. should be doing with regards to the wars in the Middle East and that is the salient issue of the midterm

and Democrats should be trying to reach out to anti-war voters and not scare them away. I still feel that way but then Hassan decided to do an interview with Axias for some reason and he's getting asked about whether the U.S. is worse than Al Qaeda and he's like,

yes, and I'm going, bro, bro, please, just like I'm saying the third way, stop making

Hassanpiker such as central part of the Michigan race, it's not helpful to anybody. I'm now saying to Hassanpiker, stop making yourself the central issue of the Michigan race. You can still do your thing, but who is benefiting from you talking to Axias? I truly have no idea.

And what does he get out of it? What is Hassanpiker get out of doing an interview with Axias? It's a nonsense. What are we doing here? And I do, I have to say, like, Abdul, he can be very good.

He's clearly very talented, he is charismatic, et cetera. He also slips into being a condescending prick from time to time. And that's the part of him, more than any one policy stance, like when he's a condescending prick. People don't want to vote for you if you're going to be like that, and the Hassanpiker

stuff that he was on one of the Sunday shows this week being like, why are we talking about a streamer from California, and he said that like four times of like, well, then why are you campaigning with a streamer from California?

“That's why we're talking about it's crazy to ask regular random Democrats, like”

Jamie Raskin was on Meet the Press and Chris Marker. That's like four questions about the sidefifters, he's like, what are you talking about? But like Abdul is campaigning with him. So now you kind of have to live with it or distance yourself, which he is kind of doing now. I agree with that.

And it is sort of like, you noticed that some of the Michigan Democrats have an endorsed of dual or been very lukewarm, not Maori, and not his actual comments, you know, and I will say, and Alyssa Slackin has been, and Alyssa is a good, yeah. She's going to be able to answer that. Yeah, and then the pavement for him.

My understanding from behind the scenes is that Abdul is a little prickly. And so I do think that there are some also some just normal politics, like if you're going to be a politician, you're going to be a politics, and you can't be like, oh, the establishment doesn't like me, and it's all because of a pack. It's like, well, a pack grain a lot of, put a lot of money in your race, and that's a legit

criticism to have, okay, that totally a legit criticism, but like also you got to play politics and like win people back over, like look, it's all right. His orons doing it, he's winning people over, he's trying, you know, don't go try.

He's like smiling in every interview, like never has a feather of old, like, you know,

he's just, you want to hang out with him, and like, I very much do not want to hang out with Abdul, I'll say it. I wouldn't mind hanging out with him, but I hear why people don't feel that way. I hear why some people feel that way.

“And to be clear, I think people should unequivocally vote for him, but like he's like, you”

know, he's not supposed to call. I feel like if I talk to him, he'd be like, dude, you're like, not even smart enough to be

Yeah.

“I got an email from a listener that was like, could you clearly say where you would be”

on this? 'Cause I'm confused.

And I'm like, do you listen to the, like, I listen to a pot of, say, the world, well,

napping, well, I'm cooking, well, I'm trade tweeting. Sometimes I miss the nuances of Ben and Tommy's takes, and so that happens sometimes. But just to be abundantly clear, it is not a close call at all in the Michigan Center race for me. My garage is a rubber stamp for a fascist and I've dualed the one vote out of 100.

He's pretty perfectly fine, and I'll gladly vote for adults, I will to Michigan. I just want to say, I aspire to one day have nobody knows anything, a send to the levels of, of, to Miller, Napro T, maybe you've got to keep, you've got to keep working. One day, you've got to keep working. I keep working.

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That's home serve.com/bowork for 50% less savings compared to renewal price, void in Florida, sorry, Florida. Let's see what's happening in the house, I mean, if you think that the Democrats are going to have 54 Senate seats, I assume that you think that they're going to have a much bigger house when than what it's kind of the conventional wisdom right now.

“Yeah, I mean, I think like my general take on the house is people have convinced themselves”

that there are only like 30 districts that could ever be in play again because Jerry Mandarin, you know, got rid of all the competitive seats, and like the countries like basically a 50/50 country, so those people have to go somewhere and the way that you draw a bunch of safe districts is you also draw a bunch of like R plus 10 to 18 districts, and they're like 60 districts across the country that are between Trump plus 10 and Trump plus 18 districts,

60, and most of them are not even, they're not even in the likely Republican category.

Like if you look at cook political, they're finally starting to move some of those, some of the

guys that you were pumping up in here, who should you donate to peace, you know, Chris Jones, and Arkansas, and like, you know, a bunch of these seats are fine. Yeah, well, we just got upgraded last one to mention, yesterday is Blake, Gene DeBeen, who's running for it's to find a seat, good candidate, punch bull, didn't article about him yesterday, and they said that this is crazy.

They're a public in somehow, leaked their internal poll, where they were at 47, and Trump unfavorable, is at 49, in that district, the Trump won by 21. So that's not even in your 10 to 18 range, that's a Trump 21 district, but that's kind of, that got moved from solid, delightfully, in part because the Republican candidate Anthony Constantino is like a sticker salesman slash rapper who's like really close friends with Roger Stone,

and is like a mag pro insurrection rapper, which yeah, I mean, that might even be too far for at least a phonics district, and Blake is like a normal dairy farmer, normal dude, moderate. So I, that's one example. I'm going to update my list, I'm coming up here and probably next week, so people can take a look at one more time with some of these stretch races they could support, but that's one I'm looking at during 21. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if you haven't seen his

“rap video about Zara and Mamdoni, it's highly recommend, it's a good listen. But yeah, I think”

especially, you know, I think there are a bunch of districts in Texas and Florida that were drawn under the premise that, you know, Latinos had forever deserted the Democratic Party and joined the Republican Party, which I don't think was ever the case. You know, I think a bunch of those districts are going to be in play, you know, and again, to your point about candidate quality, there's a bunch of districts like that one, like Texas 15 with Bobby Toledo, you know, the

Tejano music store. Yeah, I've already kind of moved Bobby Toledo into safe category. I mean, I don't tell my friends helping that race, but like, but Johnny Garcia, that's more of a stretch district in Texas. It's also highly Hispanic district. He's a he like worked at the jail. He's like a

Yep, the other place that I think Democrats can pick up a bunch of seats is in Colorado. Okay, this is interesting. I've been wanting to talk about those seats. I guess I should go through them for us. So Colorado 3, you've got Jeff heard and Colorado 5 is Jeff Crank. Those are both like, you know, Trump plus 10 districts. So Jeff heard is replaced Bobert, Bobert's still there,

but she moved district. So that's basically Western. So that's the mountains, basically.

“Yes. And then Jeff Crank in the fifth, that's Colorado Springs. I think I think the mountain”

district is tough. The fifth Colorado Springs ain't the Colorado Springs of James Dobbs and any more. Like, you know, things have changed. Yeah. I went to college at Colorado College in the Springs. And I was volunteering for Obama in 2008 knocking doors. And yeah, it was, uh, I got the, I had the N word dropped on me a lot in the context of that race. But it has gotten a lot more prejudices over the past two decades. And then Colorado 8 is like on everyone's map. That's Gabe Evans district.

And, uh, many root now, the beautiful, uh, arguably our hottest candidate. And he's, I think, definitely in a winner of the Democratic straight man are comfortable just kind of talking about how hot their candidates are. You know, it is a cultural difference between the two parties.

I think it's partly because I'm not allowed to talk about how hot women are. And so I just like

lean heavily. Don't be like, oh, my, you know, Chris Gallant was also on my list. I know you were talking about that. I know. But that's another district that's like, that's in safe for public in territory on Cook political. It's like a Trump plus 10 district where we've got a black hot helicopter and volunteer firefighter running against run of the mill, Nick Lillota. I mean,

“those, those seats are going to be in play. And Robert, I think Democrats could plausibly sweep”

all eight congressional districts in Colorado. Come on. Jerry Poles is was pushing this to me as well when I talked to him last. Like, it helps that they have on the top of the ticket a, uh, admitted murderer, maybe. And pathological liar, Victor Marx or public in, yeah, uh, one of the most insane arguably, a crazier than the original Marx. I mean, he's a total. He's a completely

little tech. He's a Republican nominee for governor in Colorado. I do think that that helps. I

mean, even in those other house districts, like the Republicans, like the party is just very depressed, which has an impact. Right. Right. Right. And again, like in a lot of these, like, I know Jessica Killin is running against Jeff Cranks. She's raised a bunch of money. She's a veteran. She's like, we have good candidates in a lot of these decisions. I'm be adding Jessica to my next list of people to support. So yeah, I think to that fifth, I'm a little more skeptical than you. You're

the hope, hope, hope you'm hover, bobert and turret. I think you're tough. But I think eight times. Yeah, the manny hot manny and, uh, hot manny and in the fifth and the Carlos frame sister, I think are both doable. He's so hot that his opponent in the primary was like running ads being like, I know how hot he is. But still vote for me. They were the voters were like definitely no, we're voting for that. I learned to flag also when we talk about Nebraska, I didn't crisp backmires in Nebraska one.

I could be in a position where Democrats have two of the Nebraska districts. That's not the Don Bacon district, you know, which is, which is, the Democrats are going to win. And that's like the time. Exactly. Exactly. And Omaha, but like kind of the next one over and backmires a good candidate, you know, kind of form policy mind to go. The independent drop down to that. The independent guy dropped out of there. And that was going to be a hot of mine. If, uh, if he had stayed in,

we're not, but since he dropped out, we're not going to, we're not going to bother him. Okay, if you guys are listening to some thinking, you guys, okay, let's calm down. All right, this can't be like this bad. Maria Salazar is running in Florida, 27. So there's another. This is also in these this Trump between Trump 10 and 18 kind of territory you're talking about. She hasn't added this morning. That's like a real vibe shift. And I want to play it. It's a president. Some of your

immigration enforcement efforts have gone too far. In July, 50% of the 50,000 people that were detained had no criminal record. Be careful what your advisors are telling you about immigration policy. The same Hispanics will help you get to the White House in 2024. It will be treated today. You can be for immigration with Lincoln was for slavery and Reagan was for communism. I'm not talking about giving them amnesty. I'm talking about giving them a dignified life in this promised land.

I am Maria Alvarez Salazar. And I approve this message. I mean, so on the one hand, like the chief feels like he has to do that demonstrates that she knows that she's in political trouble. And the substance, typically, I do think it's worth mentioning.

“This is totally insane. It's like Donald Trump's advisors fault. And if you want to do,”

he could be the Lincoln of immigration. It's like, have you been in a coma the last 10 years, lady? Like, no. I mean, he wants to be the Charles Lindberg of immigration and he's been working very hard at that and doing it quite well. I have such bad political brain rot that I didn't even consider how awful the substance was. I was just like, I was like, we got Republicans in Trump's 15th. He's the Jefferson Davis of immigration, man. I'm sorry. Like, and so yeah,

him, like, she can't be like Trump is bad. Just like, please, sir. Won't you think of the

chivalent Latino children? Won't you think of the Latinx children that are being held in the camps? Well, it's saying who is this lady? Oh, but like, this is the, this is what I'm talking about. Is I saw yesterday also or earlier this week, Brent, you can't end this, the founder of

“Signal Republican polling shop. He was like, if you're in a Trump plus 15 district, you should”

be polling that district. Like, Republicans are very clearly trying to figure out how they held a hold on to whatever they can hold on to. And if you're running ads like that in a district Trump carried by 15 points, like, you're not doing that without some, some polling that's showing, oh, my God. Well, I got to tell you, I do not know anything about Elliot Rodriguez or opponent. I don't want to pretend. I'm doing my best to get up to speed on all the house candidates,

but, you know, we all have our blind spots. But I'm endorsing him officially right now as a donation candidate, because this lady seems like she's worried. And it's also like, fuck you, okay? There's no hope that it's going to get better with Donald Trump. You endorsed him, he's your president, like he's doing internment camps. Go down with the ship or separate yourself. Sorry, Maria. Go. I think he, I think he's like a TV guy. I like, I think he was like on, you know,

local news there, which I love that. And probably means he, you know, is how to talk,

which is always not necessarily a given for Democrats. No doubt. Go support Elliot Rodriguez.

Okay. Well, you are going to end with the 2021 game. Your newsletter, nobody's listening, looks at kind of what the possible 28 clonyators are doing. And like one thing that you do as

“part of this is my understanding, as you consume all of their interviews, is that right?”

Yes. I, at like two to 2.5x, but yes. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. 2.5x is great. That's real sick. I'm a 2.0. If I want to refresh my memory, what I asked someone in the past before they come back on, I will sometimes listen to myself at 3x, because I kind of kind of can fill in the words since it's me, but I can't do higher than 2 on any other pods. So good for you. And so my game is that's a perlatives. I did a tweet yesterday that some people didn't like, where I was like,

I don't understand as we're here September 17th. Why there aren't perspective 2028ers,

but if I cornered the market on being ahead of the game on AI, speaking about the AI threat, or being really anti-iron more. And like being the person that is known as being the anti-iron more person, or being the person that is known as the anti-IS person. Like Trump is giving people a lot of opportunity. And some of the pushback was well, it's like only 2026. And it's early and what about Obama? And I was like by September 17th of 2006, people knew Democratic voters knew Obama was the

Red State's Blue State's guy, and then he was the against the Iraq War guy. Like he had already solidified that before he had announced before the mid-terms he was young, but he'd had that. And I don't know if we're seeing that out there, but maybe I'm wrong. You're listening to

“all the interviews. And so that's why we're going to do the Supporter to the Games with you.”

We'll start with AI. Do we have a 2028er who's the most ahead of the game speaking about the potential AI risks? I think AOC is out there with the moratorium, but she's not like the most in the weeds on the AI stuff. I think Rokana has been, there'll be kind of a running theme, I think in this game, but Rokana definitely has been out there. He was like, Dario's Bletter didn't go nearly far enough. They should all be in jail. Josh Shapiro speaking on this today. So maybe he can take the

mantle. I want to show him. Shapiro has moved a bunch on tech stuff in general. Like, you know, he was doing a lot to try to lure data centers to Pennsylvania earlier in this term, but you know, has backtracked on a bunch of that and to his credit. He was just like, I wish more candidates would do this if they were going to change positions. He was just like, well, I listened to the people of Pennsylvania, and they don't fucking want this. And so that's my job is to serve

my constituents. And I was like, oh, that's kind of a friend of mine. Oh, that's doing politics. That's great. All right, most Iran anti-Aran war. A Chris Murphy, maybe. I would say Chris Murphy. He's been, you know, that there's a lot of been a lot of, I don't really sure, honestly, what the value is of doing the 83rd vote about the war powers hacked, but like, you know, Murphy and I mean, weren't familiar, but told us you got to say the dance albums wrote for the war 10 times. That was

pretty good. That was worth it. It's one important line. It's useful. It is good. I guess I would say this, if you're listening and you're a 20 28 advisor, and you're like, Tim, once your number one piece of advice that you'd have, I would be like, go watch Cindy Sheen videos and try to get your, from your principle to sound as close to that as possible about the Iran war. I just, I don't understand, like, people get it. Like, people are connecting the Iran war to the increased costs

of their feeling, people are sick of the fucking Middle East wars, and, and I just, and Democrats are saying, like, if you just look at it on paper, it's like they're saying the right thing, but the

Gallego's on the bar at 20 28. I had one on this point. He has been, most anti-ice, oh, distinguishing

themselves on the NTS. I'm trying to think, has there been it? Ha, I mean, I see. AOC, it's got it. I can't see, I mean, to her credit, she's been selling abolish ice hats the whole time, like since, like, 2018, she was like, yeah, of course they're fucking corrupt. Okay, so those are

“three topics I mentioned, the tweet, all of those categories, I think you could have given to AOC”

or Rokana. So I do think that they're both doing certain things, you know, Rokana. Who knows, right? If you're just looking at the substance, what they're saying, I don't want to overstate that, but like, even AOC, I don't know, the ice thing I think will give to her. All right, a couple of those. So you're doing, you're monitoring the interview. So who's doing

the most podcast interviews right now, outside of the bubble, outside, not not not tuning,

not asking who's doing the most MSNL hits, who's doing the MSNL? Yeah, yeah, I mean, Rokana has done twice as many podcasts as anyone else in the game. Chris Murphy's done a lot. Pete is good about going to interesting places. Gavin is very good about doing, you know, he did Sean Ryan, he did, like, he'll kind of go anywhere. I'd like to see more people go to, you know, sports podcasts and movie podcasts, whatever your thing is, like, if you're a Star Wars nerd and you're

JB Pritzker, you know, go find like a movie or Star Wars podcast. I don't know, biggest on reform, like in like how the fuck we're going to take care of shit if they get back in power. Pete's actually been really good on this, and he has been championing these kind of structural

systemic reforms since his first campaign, but he's very good about like when you're constitutional

amendment to get rid of citizens, you not it, expand the court, get rid of the filibuster, XYZ. Trump corruption and jailing Trump people and going after Jared. I mean, kind of a runaway for John Ossoff on that one. Runaway for John Ossoff. Overall, 2028's like creating a brand for themselves right now who's done the best so far. I think AOC and Pete Buttigieg are the two best positioned candidates going into, you know, 2027. They actually like have a clear

cogent theory of the case. I think Josh Shapiro also people are kind of underestimating him. He hasn't been doing as much national stuff because he has to pretend that he's very worried about his reelection in the swing state, but like one Pennsylvania flips for how seeds and then he has a democratic legislature and can push through a bunch of stuff. And he at least like he has a a narrative, you know what I mean? Like a lot of these people, it's like I still have no idea

“what they would be running on. So if you have to throw it there too, I think. So this was that”

your narrative. So this goes okay. I think the Pete and AOC is that. Does anybody have a red hat do we have a single person that has a red hat? Make America great again. It would be a different color I assume. A purple hat. A pink pussy. Is anybody have a pink pussy hat with a with a reason for them to be the candidate? I think like not to keep not to keep a gasping up AOC, but she really is the only one that she's like, I don't care if I'm president. I just want people to have

healthcare. Like Gavin Newsom is like actively polling the people who who interview him to be like, what should I, what should I think Adam Freedland of all people was like, but like what's your, what's your like Medicare for all? What's your thing? He's like, I don't know. I mean like striking out against injustice and standing up for rights. Like that's not a thing. That's James Carville's thing besides for him wasn't the hat. It was the whiteboard. The hat's now the standin is

“the black church. Do we have anybody that has a message for the black church right now?”

I mean, Pete has been Kamala. Yeah, Kamala starts with enormously with black voters. And I think everyone is kind of like waiting to see what she does, especially Gavin Newsom now, apparently, who who's run is contingent upon her not running. Things can change, trends can change, whatever, but like had we played this game last year, Gavin would have been the answer to a lot of these questions. It was interesting. I keep felt like he really grabbed hold of that with the

redistricting and has been has been a little rudderless sense. Yeah, I think I mean, he's he's still incredibly talented. I think people underestimate like just how good he is and not just like, not just he gives a good interview or whatever, but like it's you know, this you've watched people try to like work a room. It's a hard thing to do and he can go into any room and people are like, just buy in whatever he's selling. What's more is kind of like that to what's more is kind of just

just really good in person. Yeah, crazy, like magnetic, like magnetic energy where you're just like, this guy is electric and he's many rooting all level hot, you know, really hot. We need to

transportation secretary was going to be, because he's just like, has dulled out a trillion dollars

“to like every community in America for me, you know, the bipartisan infrastructure act and stuff.”

And he's just like, when he goes to South Carolina now, like he's getting like welcomed by the mayor, who's like, this is the guy that built the bridge that like brought back the downtown and he's just like, and it's a lot of stuff in, you know, marginalized communities and like, you know, a band and formerly vibrant black neighborhoods and, you know, like, he's like fully already campaigning for president. I mean, he's helping to boost people in the terms, but he's like doing 25 events.

So him and a row are already camping. Yeah. And Kevin, the three of them are decamping together. My not if come, like I said, okay, there we are. That's just your layer of his show. Nobody knows anything. I agree with it at the branding. I'm not sure about anything you don't like about the podcast's Rob Flaherty's idea and anything you like to meet as you. I like your graphics. Great graphics. That actually is Rob. I hate to give him flowers. Dang. That's all Rob.

“I appreciate my little Robinson. All right, Jesse, keep us posted. We'll have much more to do in”

28 or we go check out the podcast and, uh, hate your mom. Thanks so much for having me. All right. Thanks so much to Jesse, up next, right, Thompson, stick around. It's going to be a good one. [Music] And now, message for our sponsor, the reading room. As of this week, Todd Blanche is officially been Trump's attorney general for a month. And the full absteen files still aren't public.

Oh, Thomas Massey was trying to work on getting the rest of the absteen files pushed out as well as impeaching Pete Heggseth. But Mike Johnson shut it down and sent the house home, House Rogan's not even working anymore. They're that committed to covering up the absteen files. So instead of waiting on the government to stop its cover up to Donald J. Trump and Jeffrey

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and the reading room runs entirely on donations. So if this is something you want more people to see, you can learn more and ship it and to fund the tour at Trump Epstein Reading Room.com/Bull Work or check out our morning shots newsletter. All right, we are back. His books include the cost of these dreams, there's a collection of essays on sports and the broader social and historical forces shaping

our country. His most recent book is The Barn, about the murder of Emmett Till, one of the great nonfiction books of the 2020s. We had a whole show about that earlier this year. If you missed it, go check that out. He's also the EP of True South and Emmy winning series on Southern Food and Culture and his article on the LSU Ole Miss rivalry and his late father is out tomorrow on ESPN.com. It's Wright Thompson. Welcome back to the show, Tiger Bait.

Hey, man, how you doing? It's a it's a fun week to be from our corner home for world. I wanted to have you back on on game leak. There is many, you know, political cultural societal implications. There's also football, you know, the governor of Louisiana is I could full-time athletic director for LSU football. Ole Miss had one of their former players, one of our players served at the practice facility yesterday. So, you know, we're bringing in

politics and law enforcement and things. Oh, it's unbelievable. I mean, it's it's everyone who's

“showing their ass. We'll get to football that I can't want to vibe check with you. I think the”

first time we met, I don't have to remember this, we were talking about the Grove. This is a hard week for me to tell us you Ole Miss hate week because I love I love Oxford. And I love Baton Rouge and like my favorite place to see a sporting event, please don't tell anyone is Tiger Stadium. So, I'm with you on that. And one of my place favorite place to hang out is the Grove. We're talking about, this was, I don't know, this was right after Trump won. And you're kind of lamenting

the degree to which like Magga has kind of kind of infiltrated the culture around there. And obviously

it's Mississippi. It was always conservative ground. But you know, the tone, the tenor, the nature

of it had changed somewhat in ways that were maybe a little on a peeling. And I'm wondering what that vibe check is for you like now in Mississippi. I mean, the momentum feels to be waning a little bit or maybe that's cop. I would say two things. I mean, one Ole Miss is, it is the largest percentage of out of state students in the SEC. It used to be a deeply Mississippi thing. And now

I have to walk by a tent where this guy has a son that says like no liberals allowed and then all

“these crazy political sons. And I kind of just want to walk up and ask him, which one are you”

from? Are you from Texas or Georgia? Because you're not from here. Like the most partisan people I know in the world understand that the ethos of the Grove is everybody gets a plate and everybody gets a drink. And so, I hate to be someone from Mississippi blaming something on outsiders because I can, you know, I can hear it. But, you know, I wish people would understand that they're coming into our home and playing with our traditions. And the Grove isn't about it. God damn chandelier and

a tent. It's about the fact that it is a center of radical hospitality. So, you know, there's some of that that's been a problem. I mean, the larger question is, you know, I know a lot of very, very conservative farmers who were just done with all of this. I mean, people who voted for it three times just because of the ways in which the Trump administration has wrecked the American farming economy. And so, you know, you do get the sense that people stand on business and this

is catastrophically bad for people who live in global commodity markets. And it's really bad.

“Yeah, because you're doing farming and still and obviously, you're in the community there. I think”

the last time you were on, there was grumbling already in farm country about what was happening at the tariffs in particular. But it was before the Iran war started. And that is exacerbated prices, costs, everybody significantly. You know, what is being done with Trump mean? And he's not on the ballot anymore, right? I mean, does being done with Trump just being taken down the flag? It doesn't mean, well, shit, we might need to vote for Scott Colom and for Senate and Mississippi.

Farmers are going to vote for the person who is most deeply invested in the idea of free capital markets at the expense of almost any other social thing. And forever, that was, you know, Republicans. And it's not. And so, I think people are looking around trying to figure out what political movement to be part of. You know, it, it feels tremendously influx. And, you know, at least a farming community in Mississippi, where we live, people are, you know,

their whole livelihoods depend on, you know, these money and markets. And so, you know, my family's been farming in Mississippi since James Madison was the president. And so, this is the worst one we've ever had. This two shall pass. But you do get the sense that they're deeply deeply conservative people who are tired of it. Your dad was involved in, you know, Democratic politics down there. Yeah. That the easiest place to be involved in

Democratic politics when you're last on, we're discussing your mother and the nobility of posting on Facebook. Even you know, she's taken shit from it from her neighbors. I don't know.

I mean, let's just stiff some hope in per second. That Senate race is the one that's kind of

on the outer edge of when people mention, man, if it's a real big tsunami year, maybe Scott Cologne could win. I mean, you've talked to Democratic folks down there. Like, is there any sense that that maybe, like, some actual elections will go the other way or is that a little, little wishcasty? You know, there are people who are raising money and raising hope. I mean,

“Brandon Presley, the last cycle was polling really well. I mean, I think the larger problem is”

structural and it's not a Republican issue. It's a democratic issue in that the magic number that they talk about is 25% of white vote, right? You know, and there was a machine when the civil rights era of leaders like Aaron Henry were running the delta. You know, my father and Aaron Henry were the co-chairs of the Coma County Democratic Party and they were in charge of the get out the vote. And it was an incredibly sophisticated operation. And you know, I think if you look at

Clinton, Clinton got 24 and 26, I mean, he was right around that and then all of those structures

have been torn down since 96. So the problem is that, you know, the Mississippi Democratic Party

is guilty of malpractice and is leaving votes on the table because they destroyed a system that was very efficient and no one has any idea now how to put it back together. And so it's frustrating having grown up watching the planning meetings happen in my house where they were, you know, white and black preachers, you know, in our house all year, getting ready for election day. And you just get the sense that like the the Mississippi ground game was dismantled and there's

nothing to replace it. And so it's not to get a weeds of it, but it's it's it's difficult for

Democratic Party has done over the last 25 years to alienate the people most likely to help them.

It is frustrating to hear that, you know, one and four doesn't seem like that much. Like come on, whites, we only needed one and one and four. I mean, you know, the issue is the the votes are there and the party doesn't seem particularly interested in getting them. The other thing that their mess around with is obviously the voting rights act in collides interesting Mississippi did not move as quickly as some of the other states to remove their majority black district representative by Benny Thompson.

“And there's some element of that that like there's just a tiny as bit of shame left. I think in the”

National Republicans, whether like God, this is going to look really bad if we do this in Mississippi. There's there is something about that. I think it was part of it. Part of it is that Mississippi is not quite as easy to jerrymander as Louisiana and Tennessee and some of these other states and it couldn't have backfiring, but they're still looking into it. Tate Reeves, you're a great governor said that after the clay decision that Benny Thompson's tenure raining,

terror on the second congressional district was over. It's not over quite yet, but I don't know.

Like what's your sense on that and just kind of the broader, you know, going back to the barn, civil rights act was 10 years after the murder of and the till kind of the significance of that. I think your point about there being some sort of shame, I mean also like tremendously in my Roger Wicker. I think Mississippi is from Roger to Tate Reeves who you just mentioned, recognized on a level beyond the sort of rhetoric of campaigning in the rhetorical fire to fundraise.

I think people have a deep understanding here of what the actual forces are that are being evoked and what really happens when those things run unchecked. And so I think there's probably

some of that that in Mississippi, this isn't rhetorical. In Mississippi, there are a lot of people

“of who remember how nasty it got for everyone the last time we went down this road and I think”

there has to be some sort of flinching from the understanding of how bad it gets for all Mississippians if we allow rhetoric to to drive where we're going. I mean, you know, we talked about, you know, 1955 of Mississippi, you know, Emmett Till goes to that store, less than 24 hours after the polls close and an unbelievably contentious guvatorial guvatorial. Yes, that's a tough word to say that campaign where everybody's trying to be the most segregated and the rhetoric was, you know,

there's a lot of civil war metaphors about bayonets. And so I think in Mississippi, even the people who dabble in it professionally, understand how dangerous it is to wake up slumbering forces. I wonder if there's a little bit on the other side though, have the slumbering forces of kind of the civil rights resistance been awakened a little bit by it. I mean, you see this other places. I know you talk obviously a lot of folks when you when did the bar and I mean, the people you

worked with are doing like real work in these communities trying to keep these stories. So what

“what is kind of your sense in that world? I think a broad swath of Mississippians understand that”

Mississippi has to feel like home to all of Mississippians. And like there is this thing rising up and it's not just those groups working in the spaces you talk about, you know, we see it everywhere in Oxford, you know, they're the yard signs for these candidates are everywhere in a way that they weren't two years ago for Democrats. And so like, I know that's an in-exact science, but you know, you do feel this sense. Well, no, it's saying something. I goes back to your mom posted on Facebook.

Yeah, it's like, you know, I mean, you realize that you know, people like shit talk, you know, it wasn't that long ago that there was that, you know, kind of viral video in the, in the square of, you know, the black woman and all the Ole Miss frapp boys, like shot and monkey sounds at or like that was during the Trump era. Like the guy running for Senate and Georgia shared that video and was like, Hell yeah Ole Miss boys. Did he? My Collins. Yeah, the guy running for the

Republican running for Senate and Georgia posted that video with like a thumbs up. Just write a voice. What a piece of shit. Awesome, believe it. So the point at the point is put up the art sign is is it's a minor statement of resistance, but an important one in Mississippi. We might talk after all of these elections. And, you know, they like, we were stupid and optimistic. But it feels to me in my daily life that people have had enough of the chaos, you know, I mean, a lot of really

conservative people are conservative because they hate fast change. And so, and so that's an entire swath of guaranteed voters who have been alienated. And I think you see that in Mississippi,

just being like, I got to sit this one out. So I mean, I think it's happening in two ways. I think

“there's active resistance from the Democrats. And I think there's an understanding that some in the”

GOP understand that they're the dog who called the car. I want to get back to your piece here at the end, but just kind of broadening it out. There's the kind of updated version of the, you know, guys at the Confederate flags and the stands, but we're doing they're doing a 26-style and Twitter after the Ohio State Texas game. I'm sure you saw this. There's a video that UT puts out of like the student celebrating up to this huge win, arch-maning, great comeback. And you've all these

Indian kids that go to the school, totally assimilating, wearing the fucking overalls with the burn orange and doing the goddamn hook and what I doing, all that stuff that annoys me. But they are there doing it? And the guy running statewide railroad commissioner oversees seeing oil and gas, bow French posts multiple times about how this is bad. Texas is being run over. We're being replaced. And you know, this, this creates an interesting feature on the right because there's a bunch of

mega people that are like hell, yeah, you're right. This is a problem. And then Carl Rove on the other

side said, I'm voting a Democrat against this guy. It's the first time voting for a Democrat.

It's 1994. Well, I would say that he doesn't know his Texas history very well and doesn't

“clearly give a shit, but they were a lot of French. Yes. Why didn't change his name to Bell America?”

I guess he feels like a little behind. Well, both freedom, you know, there are a lot of people at the Alamo who weren't from Texas. Do you know what I'm saying? Oh, really? Yeah. And so this, you know, this idea that like the central idea of Texas isn't, yeah, you're not from Texas, but Texas won't you anyway. Like the idea that this person doesn't understand that just means that like he just is not connected in any way to the history of the place that he's from and the sort of

Texas's place in his own imagination as a separate nation state and like, you know, no, you're not from Texas, but Texas won't you anyway? And so like, I mean, Scott's just showing his ass and now he's embarrassed because he's been caught. And so he has to

double and triple down because his entire sort of identity is based on never admitting your wrong.

Because if you do that once, my God, what other things this has got fucked up in his life, and so it's just, you're just watching someone, the dog who called the car, who now has to hang on to the bumper as he's getting dragged through traffic. I mean, I kind of feel bad for the guy, because he probably just had had a few drinks and popped off on the internet. And now he's got a home this shit and like instead of just being-- You don't got to be a bad for him. But it's also

just like, I know, but just like, like, don't you think his wife at the tenor table is like,

“bow, please shut up, just stop talking. I'm not sure. And that's I think the interesting part”

of the moment is that I think that there is a girl, Eric Erickson, who I don't usually sight here, was then kind of on and off the Trump trend, he's a Georgia writer and radio host. He had a really interesting article this week that I'll link for people if they want to read it. And he talked about what he sees in evangelical circles in the south is this kind of fissure, where like there is the white identity side of this is right. It's rising again and becoming more overt. And

there are people that are not interested in the free markets, free people for a life strong military shit anymore. It's just white identity. And it's overt instead of subtext. It's been subtext for a while and it's back to be in text. And I don't you you write about this a lot like kind of balancing kind of this question like thinking about our history in the way that's correct versus thinking about is this like, hey, things are great when we're a white country. And I don't know that does

feel like it's it's maybe on the rise within these circles a little bit. Well, you get the the sense that, you know, when they say don't take the Lord's name in vain, what that really means isn't just that you're not supposed to say God damn, it's that anytime someone is standing in the house of God talking about the business of man, they are taking the Lord's name in vain. I mean, you have an entire strain of Christianity that is based on putting your stock portfolio or your political

ideologies above the teachings of Jesus Christ. And I think there are a lot of people who grew up in the church who instinctively understand that it isn't just it doesn't just go against their sort of political ideals, which can be flexible, but it is it is sort of the moral reputation of the teachings of the gospel. And I feel like there are a lot of people who understand that all of these churches have allowed themselves to be so twisted that they are now actually

just existing in a state of constant sin. And I feel like people know that. I wonder then

like process that. And this is kind of this takes us back to your story that's coming up tomorrow

and and a lot of your writings and the cost of these dreams and elsewhere, which is, you know, people want to have pride in their place, well that be Texas or Mississippi or whatever,

“you know, and they want to pride their ancestors, even if they're a Confederate soldiers, right?”

And some people are able to kind of process that history and the flaws and have pride but also recognize the failings and other people look at it and and demagogues in particular, look at it and say, no, this was good. Like the the guys in the hoods were good. Like my ancestors were good and it's in a front to me that other people are trying to, whatever, solely their history.

And you know, that I kind of think about that, like in the context of culture tradition sports politics.

Well, I mean, you know, I'm reading this book right now for research on something else. I'm doing some, you know, charge a raid. It's like, but it's spaces of hope by David Harvey. And like one of the things it's interesting is it's like written before 9/11, I think. And he predicts from a Marxist point of view, everything that was going to happen in the working class of America, he just got the in-result catastrophically wrong. And so like I say that to

say that the thing you're talking about about people trying to retain their sense of place when the thing that is most under assault from my globalization is a sense of place. And so like, I do understand the existential crisis for people whose entire identity is rooted in a place

“when that is just getting hammered. I think the thing you have to do is the way that I think”

about it. And I have a lot of Confederate ancestors for instance. I'm a grown man and I'm capable of holding two opposing thoughts in my head at the same time. Or three. Exactly. And so this idea that that you can't be like, I admire tremendously the fact that this ancestor of mine carved a life out of wilderness while he also had a bunch of political views that while they might have been mainstream at the time are a point to me now. And so I think it is important to me

as a descendant to understand the things they did and why and try to like not distance myself from the bad or associate myself with the good, but try to understand their decision making matrix as a way of navigating my own present day life. And so integrated, if you will. And so, you know, I think that like there's a lot of people have a lot of difficulty for reasons that I don't fully understand of holding two or three or four or five opposing views in your head at the same time and believing

that some parts of all of them are true. I want to connect this this article is going to go tomorrow which which did have me getting for clamped in my my daughter's bed last night so I was reading it. And you kind of go back and you talk about your dad and kind of these memories you have with him have his go to hell as you button but also kind of taking the back to the 1950s and it was interesting to me if we kind of take the lens back that this kind of moment where this kind of college

football, you know, Southern element rises. I mean, and there's elements this before this is the 1950s when you have scholarships start, we've caught, you know, TV contracts start school integration starts and it's like the same time as the period of the barn, right? Like it's it's it's right as around the time that I'm at till is dying is what four years before the Billy Cannon Halloween run that you write about which is kind of the famous moment in the Ole Miss Ellis shoe rivalry.

So I don't know like I just kind of want to hear you riff on like this period where all of these rivalries get birthed and and how it how it intersects with the racial conflict in the south.

“Here's the best way to do what I think. In 1956 was the first year they were athletic scholarships”

which was the started the road that would lead to NIL. In 1957 the NCAA won a lawsuit against a widow who's husband a Dodd during a game and out of that they very intentionally and then docket this you can document this after the fact that they knew what they were doing. They started using the word student athlete as a way to deny that these colleges were in the business of football which was obviously a lie and we're still dealing with all the repercussions of that lie today.

And the rivalry was born very much in a moment like this one where traditionalists were hand-wringing about what was happening to their game and you know and so 1956 is when athletics

scholarships are first offered which is a move to professionalization. 1956 is when you sugarball

integrates which the governor in Georgia called a southern apocalypse and so I mean if you want to go like

economy is the first time that that America wasn't feudal you know that like we're going to try to

sort of sit and adopt these global markets which means we need to run a meritocracy so it's not an accident that the move to commercialize and professionalize the game happens at the exact same moment as the move to integrate because these things are on a collision course because you can't have feudal football if you're also saying we want the best players we want the best game. Well and it's natural we went through the phases of capitalism. Yeah we had the capitalism just

for the whites that are running the game and not the players who only got the scholarships for a while and now eventually move on to the capitalism where the players are able to get compensated for the work that they're providing and now we may be moving into the declining capital. Well some part of you know I mean from neo liberalism to neo conservatism you know I mean it's like

“but from the invention of athletic scholarships in 1956 by the way you know I think Princeton”

won a national championship in 50 or 51 were contending so the Ivy League didn't get rid of athletic scholarships the Ivy League just chose to stay with the status quo and step away from big time football. I mean there's an epoch that goes from 1956 to N.I.L. and so a lot of people look at the N.I.L. is the beginning of a process but it's actually the end of a very long process and so I mean you know I would say to college presidents who were hand-wringing now if you didn't want

to be in the business of professional sports then you shouldn't have gotten in the business of professional schools and then we wouldn't have to deal with Ted Cruz being on college game day. You're going to be a big upgrade over him on this weekend show. The other guy you write about in this story is Billy Cannon who's the highs been trophy winner wins in 59. Ole Miss is the

“classic Ole Miss LSU game they play his touchdown run at the beginning of every LSU game still in”

2026 he ends up doing like a lot of the athletes you write about after the end of their career going through existential crises gets in trouble comes out the other side ends up working at Angola and you kind of went and met with his family just talk about that kind of arc a little bit and then I've got to follow up for you on Angola. So Billy Cannon he went to prison for counterfitting in the 80s and he lost his dental license and so the only place he could practice was Angola

and he went down there first as the dentist and then he just re he overhauled their medical

system and all of it was rooted in a deep sense of fundamental fairness I mean one of the things his daughter bunny says is that he was really drawn to people who've been thrown away and he developed these long relationships with people who worked at Angola with people who do in life at Angola I mean his trustee in the medical office was a guy Mr. Hall who was doing a life sentence and then when Billy died his family found this 20 plus page letter he'd written to the

Louisiana parole board on behalf of Mr. Hall basically making the case that he'd be released and so the family mailed that letter posthumously and Mr. Hall was released you know so Billy Cannon is very famous for what he did as a young man and for how that fame sort of the mask eats the face like Chin up Doug says how that fame brought him down and what's so interesting is that outside of the scrutiny of fame and away from his legend he had this whole other third act rooted in service and

love you know I was at the Angola prison rodeo with him one time and we were standing around in some elements you tell people at the Angola prison rodeo as if they don't know it's the closest you're ever gonna get to Caesar man it's wild they have a rodeo where they have inmates so the rodeo cowboys there you can go on YouTube and find this thing

“the day I was there it's called inmate poker and they have to hold a I think it's a fake hand”

of cards but at a wooden table sitting on metal folding chairs and they just release a fucking bowl into the ring and whoever flinches last wins and you know you're sitting up there people are eating Friedo chili pies and you're waiting for sea it's really nuts and so I was there to see Dr. Cannon and this LSU fan spots him and comes up to him says are you Billy Cannon and Billy Cannon who

had incredible comedic timing just paused and said well I'm what's left of him and I just thought

that like he was so aware of the cost of fame and of mythology he really jumped my ass one time saying you guys the SP and I've got to leave Leonard for net alone you don't understand the damage you're doing by expecting him to be this thing and I just before that really could be grow yeah like Billy could be really gruff but you know I knew him at the end of his life and

triumph but like within the system that is still just so fucked and it's just like you know the

angle of thing has been on my mind a lot recently because the people that run it the first

story is still happening like I got invited to it when I moved here and I was kind of like wait man I thought that was like a thing in the 80s but like it's it's unbelievable it's happening the people that run it are now the same people that are opening up this like women in child immigrant detention center up in Alexandria you know and it's like these prod of structures that like he was trying to work with him to try to improve himself and got much better well I mean if you ever been

out there I refuse to go I was invited but I just I couldn't do I couldn't bring myself to do it drive out there one time because when you see where it is they don't even need walls it's an abandoned the Mississippi River and I mean it's really feudal not to end with the rivalry and the game on Saturday but just talk to me about your dad I mean you started it with them I don't know how many other sons were like this my father who I was very close to and a door was a small town

country lawyer and political fundraiser he loved Ole Miss football man and it was his thing and when he died I mean I've told his story for years like that I buried him with a go-to-hell as you button and I was sort of writing that starting a couple weeks ago months ago and I realized

to my heart that when I actually got into the memory he always had two buttons in this drawer

and one of them said go-to-hell as you and the other one said Archie's army and he sort of alternated between me mostly wore the go-to-hell as you but I realized in this panic man I would have passed a lot of tech to test that I buried him with the go-to-hell as you button like I I was so sure of it and then when I actually got into the memory and had to be rigorous with it I realized

“that I remember standing in front of the drawer and I remember having the internal debate about”

maybe it was a bad idea to have the word hell buried and someone forever and I don't remember which one I picked and so the whole story that follows is about what happens when you inherit love

and hate but not the reasons I mean it's sort of like boatrearty and almost because like

we're coffees without an original but you know it it is that idea that what happens when we retain all of the rituals but had totally lost the reasons why we do though and that feels applicable in Ole Miss LSU and it feels applicable in the country of arch and I feel like it's applicable and in that question I tried to get to your earlier about like how you integrate you know the bad facts and the good is just like you're you're also rewriting with this and your

memories of being with him in the grove and it's like you have a lot of these the feelings and the spirit of what it was like to be with him and those that love is there like the details start to get washed away you know and you're you're left with a feeling and there's something almost beautiful about that but also really dangerous because it is easier to change your opinion about facts than to give away a feeling that has been stripped from the facts and so your people will

defend those feelings to the death you know I'm willing to entertain almost any conversation about surf you know my dad's political fundraising he's got this great story one time I'm going to

“mess it up a little but he needed to raise a whole bunch of money for I think John Glenn”

to like qualify for federal matching funds or something and he went to Senator Eastland's house speaking of you know the good and the bad yeah exactly the center made like a couple of phone calls and then my dad said we just got a glass of urban and we set on his porch a dodgeball and washed one pick-up truck after another pull-up and drive these checks off and he was just like oh my god you know this is the 80s in the end of something but you know when you start talking

about the way I feel about him I can get really really defensive and I think that's instructive uh both in terms of our self and when we're trying to make a convincing political argument I mean you know when I'm on my high horse about the democratic failure a lot so to tap into people on the white papers instead of at their gut and also like all political beliefs are based on feelings not facts and it seems like somewhere along the way we lost the desire to have and win an argument

“and then we lost the ability and then we lost even the memory of why that was important to”

begin with and so a lot of that is you know to go back to the sort of boat triarty and fever

living out our deepest boat leaves I find it really frustrating and scary like you know like I

fundamentally politics is about making an argument to someone else about why your idea is better than their idea and if you're not engaged it's a political being in that then you're not really doing anything but just shouting into the wind um one of those other feelings people are now this weekend is hate your 13-year-old cousin broke the TV punch in at Lane Kiffin I read we're thinking Lane might have to come out in the boat mobile you know in devot Hemingway

in case people start throwing whiskey bottles at him what's the level of hate what's the hate rate show for this weekend it's pretty strong and I hope we don't show our ass I hope we

boo and we don't throw anything you know he could have handled it better but like all of us have

taken a better more hot paying job right yeah and the system is fucked by the way college football should not there should not be a time to do this in the middle of the season right like they they created this the fucked system also he didn't handle well but but it was like he could wait until the end of the season he would or rather wait until the end of the season he wanted to coach the team you know so I totally agree with that and I feel like we are blaming him for structural

problems I mean there's a you can make a case that he's the most honest man in college football because he's the only one to admit that coaches aren't leaders of men they're just playing the piano in a Horax and you know that his job is to dial up touchdowns that's it and so on some level he's the only honest man in college football who's just saying they pay me to score touchdowns and so like I have a lot of you know I'm not trafficking as much in the lane hate despite the fact

“that I'm gonna be on game day one and it's up pretty good you know I think it's really complicated”

I don't think he handled it well I think he put his own career over a once in a lifetime season and then didn't want to own that but just stand up and say I care more about my next job than I do about any of you and I think people would have handled it better being and talk to like adults but this idea that he doesn't seem to understand that a place like Ole Miss we get a 1951 we get a 1962 we get a 2014 like these are I'm talking like three or four seasons in my lifetime and

I'm 50 years old and he was incredibly casual with something that didn't mean shipped to him but is very very precious to us and so I think a lot of the beef is rooted in that and I also think that some of it is self-loathing because as mad as we are I think everybody instinctively understands that we will forget this just as everybody forgot in 1956 how scholarships were going to ruin college football and our rage will dissipate and it will just get sort of subsumed into the collective

board of Ole Miss LSU and we will have this hatred for something with no real recollection of

“why that is at all and so I think some of the anger it lane is the understanding that is mad as we are”

nobody is going to be able to tell you the specifics of this in 10 years and that's really frustrated well I hope he's not the only honest man in sports I hope he's a liar and a gamesman because the the injury report came out last night and and the quarterback's doubtful there's a lot of discussion about whether that's lane being lane and and and playing games or whether the

quarterback's actually hurt Sam love it for LSU's I'm nervous about it look I would never

ever ever cheer for another human being to be interested but I guess I would say that jesus says forgive but he didn't say anything about forgetting maybe some karma because lane karma is is manifesting in Sam Levitt's right shoulder right now all right last thing for you true south of the food show we're going on tour at the bowl work the board dot com slash events get tickets they're

“only like 30 seats left for the Columbia South Carolina events if you want to come to Columbia”

on a Friday night hang out with us get your tickets we're going to date and spring fields Charlotte Columbia Atlanta give us a food wreck somewhere on the tour well look you got to go to the pine club and date no higher okay it's great oh there's that steakhouse in Charlotte it's like beef and something but it's a old school great you can just Google old school Charlotte steakhouse there's Brooks brother Sam which is in Charlotte that used to it is outside of an old textile mill that

is now a loft but the old bit bunker of a business is still there hamburgers and hot dogs and stuff that place is great call me a South Carolina not my favorite but you know I do like the garage of sandwiches tell your favorite South Carolina your green volman you know I like green vol I like up like I like up state South Carolina I like cola I can be the color representative on here

stuff so we have an in one episode on the coming season of true south about beef or highway and

“Havana sandwich shop and you should definitely 100% go there it's funny you know it's sort of”

like the idea of like how bad is a person have to be before you won't consume their art the lady who

the lady who can finally cross over recently but it's you know that's I have a high tolerance

but you know like all of us who won't listen to remix to ignition but still listen to Billy Jane have some explaining to do on the other side of that one but you know oh oh but like

“the the lady who owns bones has deeply questionable politics but that's a great stake so”

I sort of have to hold my nose and go in there I don't want to shit talk a place in my home

town but it has cost me a soft shell crab Popeye here in New Orleans because because of the pictures I got it at the front desk when you walk in I just can't do it anymore but you know that I hate to ask what place do I know it I won't give the bad place feathers I go to now I've replaced it with feathers I won't tell you the one that I had to cut because that's rude it is my mom also said if you know if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all and by the way New Orleans

Popeye nice thing I dream about is the Arno special in Arno that is a very good Popeye

“I'm happy brother here's the thing another thing your story said that the Ole Miss president”

the first Ole Miss president asked the first LSU president William to come to Sherman to spare Ole

Miss when he was burning the south I can't promise you will show the same restraint this weekend but I appreciate you for coming on the show good luck out there thank you so much we're only interested in you burning your livers okay we'll be doing that go tiger thank you right times to come back soon brother honey tautie see go get his books man thanks so much the right times for squeezing us in he's got a big weekend you can catch him on game day on Saturday and thanks to Jesse Lairclaw

uh continue we've got the great feedback on kind of the younger democratic strategist series so we'll keep that up in the coming weeks queen now in the midterms appreciate you all very much we have an old friend on tomorrow looking forward to it see you all then peace the board daily is brought to you thanks to the work of lead producer Katie Cooper associate producer Ansley skipper and with video editing by Dante de Chico and audio engineering and editing by Jason