Robby Hoffman Will Always Feel Poor, No Matter How Rich She Gets

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From the New York Times, this is the interview, and Lulu Garcia Navarro. Committee and Robbie Hoffman seems to be everywhere these days. She's been praised for her scene stealing roles in Hax's Randy, a former Hasidic Jew from Crown Heights who becomes a Hollywood assistant, and in Steve Correll's HBO comedy rooster in which she plays a blunt protective roommate.

Hoffman grew up poor in a Hasidic community herself, the seventh of 10 children with lots of trauma. Despite their religious roots, her family supported her when she was outed in her teens. That life is the source of a lot of her unfiltered comedy, including her Netflix special wake-up. There's so much I wanted to ask her about.

Money, fame, marriage, and what they mean in our celebrity and wealth-obsessed culture. And boy, did she engage? Here's my conversation with the singular Robbie Hoffman. [Music] Okay, an action.

Robbie Hoffman? Yeah, I can imagine. We're actually in your home. It's weird because you guys said, and I was saying that's a bit, you said, "Oh, they have to do that your house because we want the person to be comfortable."

But what you do is you come to the house and you totally reproport, like, this is not, like, junior, I mean, it's like, you want me to be comfortable, but the couch isn't where the whole house is moved. Yes. So, I'm kind of counter-imposes.

We want the subject to be comfortable, but then you come in the house and you move everything, that's going to, right? And I did notice sometimes when you see an interview, you see them sitting in the middle of a room in their chair and I go, "That's their living room?

How weird to walk in, but now I understand they move everything." I have these chairs, these are my chairs, but normally they're there. They're very nice chairs. They're very nice chairs. The house is beautiful.

They're beautiful. Do you feel comfortable? No. Fair. But I'm not comfortable a lot.

So don't worry, I'm comfortable being uncomfortable.

“Are you comfortable making people uncomfortable, too?”

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Great. Then we're in for a fun conversation or in for it. All right. So, we're going to talk about more of this later, but as you have often talked about,

you grew up really poor. And I wanted to start with what is the weirdest thing now about finding yourself with money and fame? You know, I don't know if weird is the word.

I think it's tremendous, it's amazing.

It's everything I've ever wanted was to make a living doing what I love doing. Life is weird everywhere. My weird doesn't, you know, me seeing stuff. It doesn't change necessarily based on my socioeconomic status because I still see of it.

Now I just see rich people in their weirdness. I was poor, I saw, oh, I saw it. You know what I mean? And I saw that now I see new weird things. You know, it's like you go to a different level of a video game.

There's other challenges and there's other weirdness.

“How would you compare the rich weird to the poor weird?”

The rich weird is way weirder and worse. Because it, there's like a humanity that is missing. My favorite is a people like me who grew up poor. And then by the grace of God, God, some money. And now we could be like, oh my God, how we are these rich people who've been like this

since birth or whatever, right? Small things like when you go into a rich person's house and nobody's allowed to go on the fridge, the poor have much less. But it's like when you go to their house, it's like take take take. You want a coke, you want a sprite, like we just everybody went in the fridge.

But the rich, they have the biggest fridge, but nobody can go in the fridge. Right? So it's a small thing like that that paints a bigger picture, a bigger problem of generosity, right? Generosity seems like a small thing, but I've mostly seen generosity in poor households. It's not to say it doesn't exist, but it is notable. Whenever I meet a rich person and they actually were helpful or great, I mention it.

It's worth mentioning. Are there things that have stayed with you about having really struggled?

Because my mom came as a political refugee from Cuba with basically a suitcase.

And no matter how comfortable she is, she's a hoarder.

She can't throw anything away. She's 87 now and that has stayed with her. Is there anything like that for you? Everything. Everything stays with you. The way that I am is entirely informed by how I grew up. Everything stays with me. I joke about it often times, but you know, that's why I like being with Gab. We both kind of grew up meager beginnings and we speak the same language. I equate it to literally

dating outside of the faith. Gabby and I getting married, we dated inside her faith. No, she's not Jewish. Nothing to do with that, but she grew up meager so did I and that helps our day to day. We speak the same language. If we're grocery shopping, raspberries are $7.99 for a little thing. And I'm not in the mood to spend that. I don't care if the money's in the account. I'm not in a place emotionally to drop $7.99 USD a little thing or raspberries.

We move on. She agrees. We move on. This thing that you just said is so interesting to me that you're not emotionally in the place to spend

“$7.99. I think it's criminal. I'm moving on. But what is criminal? What does that mean for you?”

I just have never been in place to spend. It's just crazy. I mean, I had a great uncle and I don't

know the the the comparison. But you know, gas right now in L.A. is $7 close to. Yeah. Okay. Now, when I was a kid, I think a mantra goes by leader, not gallon. And I think like it used to be like 70 cents or something. When it reached a dollar, he didn't leave the house. Like he was like, like, I'm glad he could you take me to my friend's house. He's like, are you kidding? Gas is a dollar. I'm going to be downstairs. And he just didn't leave his room. I grew up like those like

like the day in and the day out. I don't know. Just affects me. It's how I, you know, even the way I purchase things. If I'm going to buy something, I sold out a tour. I sold a show. I'm writing a book. Whatever it is, I take a little off the top. I make sure something I love. I have forever. And I buy it. And then the rest of it, I try to be careful with. What's the last thing you bought that you loved? Uh, probably my backpack. Cool. I bought a designer backpack for tour. And, you know,

as a die-clike me, I don't buy purses or anything like that. But a backpack is a kid. I've had it almost a year. And I, I don't see it slowing down. It's a good investment. Yeah. Really good. No, really good. Yeah. All right, you grew up the seventh of 10 kids in an ultra-orthodox acidic family. You've described growing up in pretty brutal terms. What are your earliest memories of your life in Crown Heights? Really bad. I don't speak too much to this, but I can a little bit.

Crown Heights is beautiful now. But there were a lot of robberies when we were kids. And I do

“remember the summers are very hot in New York for the, you know, the New York Times. I never get”

to see the New York Times mug. Are you getting that on camera? Well, you asked me if I'm comfortable.

The New York Times is in my house. No, I'm not comfortable. I'm always excited. The time is the

time. So, no, I'm not comfortable, but I'm excited. I don't need to be so comfortable. Back to the question. We and the summer didn't have air conditioning, but my parents had in their bedroom, one air conditioner in the window. And it was so hot. Must have been over a hundred degrees. Everybody was sleeping in their underwear. My parents had the 10 kids on the floor. Some in the bed, and others of us, like on couch pillows, like, you know, quasi made mattresses.

And we'd sleep on the floor in our underwear. I had, you know, memories. I was very afraid of my father. My mother was my father was abusive to my mother. You know, I try speaking about this now. I try and give grace to not too much grace, but not, you know, my parents were very young when they had us. You know, my father was 35 with 10 kids. My mother was 30 with 10 kids. So, they were under a lot of pressure and stress. I'm not excusing him, but I don't know that he had the proper

resources to deal with anything. And I'm not sure how he was told to manage his family in the systems that he was a part of the religious systems. So, that's that said, he was very abusive. And that kind of avoided him. What does that mean if you don't mind my asking and you don't have

to say that? He was physically abusive to my mother for years. And so, I kind of always avoided him.

“Now, he was not physically abusive to us. And in fact, I remember some bad fights, he would speak”

to us after and say, you know, but I would never hit you. But you hit mom. It's like, you hit mom. And my mother is the sweetest, you know, unbelievable when her to fly. So, it's like,

once walking to the kitchen, that's in Clive 6. I don't even know, young, I want an orange chooser snack. And I saw him sitting there. I saw him and I go, oh, didn't see you there. And I, you know, and I would walk away. Like, we didn't have that sort of a relation. I saw him. I'm like, oh, sorry, I didn't see you there. I'll come back. So, that was kind of a tip to a time for sure. When did you realize you were funny? Probably later, later. But my whole family, everybody was funny. We just

were all funny. My father was very funny. And my mother is hysterical. So, everybody was funny.

It was always brutal and funny. And yeah, we laughed at each other, we laughed at ourselves,

we laughed at everyone and anything. There was nothing off limits. And if you saw something funny nowadays that like, oh, you shouldn't laugh at that. Like, my brother would hit you. See, look at this. Look, you know, like we would always catch funny with each other. Like, look, look what's going on there. Look what's going on there. So, we were pointing, we were looking, we were laughing. Was funny a way to deal with the hard things? I'm sure. I'm sure it's cultural. I'm

“sure. And you need to have rough, there's a roughness to comedy. It's, it isn't polite all the time.”

It's not sensitive all the time. It's just funny. If you grow up that way, politeness and decorum is kind of, to the side because you can't, you can't invest in those things necessarily. I had a joke early on in my career, which my friend Jess gives me a hard time about. My sister worked at Starbucks. And sometimes I would meet her after work and she would close up the shop. So, sometimes at midnight, whenever. I don't know if it was 24 hours, but it was like

till midnight. And she lived in an apartment for subway stops away. And she would walk home. She had two very long scary blocks, dead of the winter, snow, dark, that she would have to walk home. Not too far, but not a comfortable walk home. But she would walk home in a very unflattering. And I don't know how to say this. That wouldn't be disgusting. That wouldn't be rude. That wouldn't be offensive. But she would walk home in a way that mimics somebody with physical disability. Okay? She would

limp or do something really crazy for the entire two walks to make herself, quote unquote, less desirable for a sexual predator. And it's too bad that that's the way the world is, but these are the safety concerns she did. And I used to say that as a joke and I used to do her walk.

I don't do the walk anymore. But of course, comedy isn't always comfortable. It's like,

that was a protective defense mechanism. Okay? If sexual predators mostly men, thank you, they're mostly into young able-bodied girls. She has to be not that. So, it's not always polite,

“and it's not always comfortable. I think the idea of comfort generally, even when you ask me”

if I'm comfortable is a rich thing. These are concepts. Even if you ask somebody how they grew up, they won't even tell you rich, they'll say, "Yeah, we were comfortable." I've never heard the word growing up. Comfortable? What? We're not comfortable. Nobody is comfortable. There's roaches in the fucking sink. I'm not comfortable. The snow has come through the window. I got to put sulfane on it. Nobody is comfortable. And we're very comfortable being uncomfortable,

but the rich are not. And they dictate what is comfortable and what is it. They are uncomfortable often. They don't talk about things. Things like money, they don't talk about politics. Money, whether I wanted to talk about it or not as a kid, we had one phone in the main when you walked into the house. It was a table with a phone. That was the phone. And my mother was screaming about money on that phone. From the morning to night. She doesn't have it. What's going to

be? What's the how much is the bus pass? We heard everything. It's not like if I didn't want to hear about it, it's like the rich have their own siloed rooms. It's not like I could go into the other room

and not hear her. I heard her. It's basically one room and the walls are thin as hell.

I want to stay with your upbringing because I do think it's a source of a lot of your comedy.

“I think I'm comfortable. Are you going to kill me? No. I think it's actually really”

insightful. Go on. Okay. Thank you. Poor people know how to chill. Once we are okay, the house is a shiddle. It's a dump. But it's Friday night. People back from work, schools out, whatever it is.

spry whatever they want. Take, take, take, take, take. You're sitting outside. You're shooting the

shit. It's a lot more comfortable at the hang in a poor house than when I go to the rich houses.

“Like I hate somebody offered me. They said, oh, these people are going to Italy. You should come to”

the pool. Their house is going to be empty. They're going to Italy. It's like, I don't want to go to that pool. I don't want to be somebody's house. They're not there. And then I got to like, I don't know, it's just, it's just a little bit bizarre. I probably go to the pool, but it's not, you know what I mean? It's not like the most, I don't know if I believe you, that you're not going to the pool. I might go to the pool, but I'm just saying it's not like I'm like, I'm like,

even one day, it's my pool. I'll be like a little bit more ah, but I don't know if I ever do a pool.

Anyway, it's a whole other conversation. I think there's a lot of maintenance probably. It is probably. I want to ask you one more thing about this period. Eventually, you leave Crown Heights. You move down to Florida. You're there for a little bit. And then you're grandfather.

“Wow, how do you hear the Florida piece? I always skip the Florida piece. We were there for like a year.”

But okay, you did your research. She's not talking around. She knows her shit. We're at the New York Times, baby. Okay, go ahead. So your grandfather then comes and rescues your mother from your abuse of father. And you all move to Canada. You leave your dad behind. Yes. Did you become more secular at that moment? What was it like to sort of move from a religious community to a less religious environment? So it was an open night. Yeah, exactly. Transition is the

exact word. You said it good there. I was kosher told 19. Right. So we were definitely kosher in the house. Like, you know, I got him with Zusa here. I mean, I'm not an animal. So there's still things, you know, I don't need to like, like there's still remnants. I don't know that I totally transitioned out. When we left, we weren't immediately not religious. We were still religious. We moved to Montreal. In fact, we moved to a Montreal neighborhood that was the same sect. You know, the

biggest difference was not having the father in the home, which meant my mother took on all of the male religious commandments. She did the the Kiddish, which is Friday night, blessing over the wine. And Saturday, she did the Abdullah, which is the service at the end of the Sabbath. She did all the male things. And that is that is the the the the the law is if the father is not in the home that the mother takes on a lot of the responsibility. So was it something that you

wanted to break from the religious structures or was it something that you were battling against or did you? Well, I did know that this was just this really you're asking about my mother's battle. My mother is the one who cook us out of that insular community. It's really her story that part of it. I was born into it. So I don't know that it was such a battle. I just this was life. This was the day and in the day out of life. For my mother, she was starting to open up and say, is this what I want

for my life? Is this what I want for my kids life? My brothers, for instance, we're not learning English. They were learning yetish and they were learning the Bible Torah. And my mother is proficient in English. My mother is potentially the the most well-read person I've ever met my whole life. So she had a big dissonance between her kids not being able to read the classics later on like what am I doing to these boys that they're only learning Bible and they're not learning

their own language. So there were things like that that my mother has shared later that led her to be like, I don't want my kids living like this. Beyond her own abuse and what she was facing she was thinking about what kind of people are we going to be? You end up going to a private-year school on scholarship. You said in an interview that you had to find your voice that you had been sounding jappy in those were your words in order to fit in at high school.

Okay, I wouldn't use such language. I would never use jappy. My Japanese fans,

nothing to do with you Jewish American princess. Yes. It's a derogatory term for Jewish girls.

“Which I can use. Go ahead. Does anyone give you a hard time back in the interview?”

Oh, friend. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. Name names. Okay. Okay. Well, I can't wait for the tea. I was curious about when you gave up that sort of pretence of trying to fit in with that crowd and that you had kind of adopted this persona. It was another transition. Right. It's also a teenage thing. I think many teenagers want to fit in.

opportunity in the end. It was in that positive and really did teach me a lot. It was hard, so said not economically, to not fit in and feel looked down upon, but it also created a fire.

“But it was a transition. I remember I really tried. I got so lucky. So I'm going to the school.”

I'm pretty. I had a great figure. So I tried to really, there was two things. Not only was I hiding where I came from and then my the classes in the middle, but I was also hiding the boyishness of

it all. But I want it to be feminine and girly and I was always allowed kid. I was always annoying.

I hated these things about me. I still hate being annoying and I'm working on it, but it is what it is. But it wasn't for girls to be. Like if you were like, if you were outspoken as a girl, or you, it was just like, unlady like and still like not hot, not cool. So I was kind of pushing that to and I kind of went the other way. Also one of my good friends sat me down, probably in ninth grade and said like, I'm bringing down the group that like, I can't wear a backpack

anymore. I got, I got to have a purse a tote. We're putting all our shit in a tote. We're not doing school bags anymore. And I was like, but these books are so heavy. I can't do it one shoulder.

“I need both shoulders. I almost need the clip here. I mean, these math books. Are you kidding me?”

So I remember she was like, no, we got you got to get a purse. Like, you're bringing down the group. And the besides you're laying out because the purse I got was from Levi. So it was a used Levi's. It was a green quarter-rise Levi's with a Levi's pocket. And I would try and do things. I wanted to, you know, I tried like looking better or more feminine or whatever and leaning into my my looks and, you know, and also talking different. You know, because when I moved, I would say words like

orange, but you say orange. So I remember doing that. I'm going to say orange. Like I say orange anymore. Orange is for losers. Right? They know your poor. If you say orange, they know your poor.

Orange is vote. Right? So stuff like that. I was always thinking how I look,

how I sound, how I look, how I sound, how I look, how I sound. And over time, as I came out, as I started stand up, it was all about like leaning back in. It was all about, like, we're just going 100%. I'm still, when you're on stage, it gives you an excuse to be 1,000% you. Another big transition for you. You were actually outed when you were 17 in a way that sounds like something out of mean girls. Hmm. Brother, this was brutal.

So I had a girlfriend, Italian, and this girl wanted to be out of the closet with me. And I was like, I'm not being fucking gay. Are you out of your mind? There's no way. I'm not doing that. I'm doing well in school, getting a great job, and that's going to be the end of that. I'm not going to be doing all this gay shit in my head. And so she would say fine. And I just like wouldn't talk to her in public. You didn't want to come out at this point because you just didn't

feel like it was anyone's business or you were, I don't even think I don't know how long this is going to go. As soon as I found out it was gay, I was already living on my own. I was already

having to make rent. I was in school full time. I was working basically for full time too.

I was living a really grown-up life and I just could not have another thing. And I was a very good kid by this point. I was taking school very seriously. I didn't go out too much, but I went out. This is where I get sloppy. So we went at the student bar and I was with all my friends.

“And she was with hers. So then at some point, I think she texted me meter in the bathroom.”

So I went to meter in the bathroom. So we went into the stall together. This is a line, you know, the bathroom. So finally we got a stall. We get into the stall together. It more making out in the stall. We were 17 who cares. And the door sprung open. And so we were left. We pulled our embrace apart. And a girl that I had gone to school with part of the Jewish community saw me. This popular girl. Didn't see me kissing. But something

was what was going on. And yeah, by the next day, it felt like everybody knew I felt like the scene from a walk to remember. I was just walking through the cafeteria and everybody was like, like, she's fucking gay. So it's really, I really, I'm like lucky to be here. I really thought

It's 17. Wow. Yeah, all but two. My friends told me they thought it was just weird.

“And I don't know. It was, yeah, they just thought it was weird. And again, it wasn't a time”

where nobody was gay. Just we were still a pretty conservative environment. And then I had a couple friends. My friend, Malay, shout out to Malay. She messaged me. Yo, dog. Like, I don't know what's

going on here to talk if you want. And then my friend, Ali, whose mother was always nice. She was like,

I don't give a shit, whatever. I hear stuff's going on. You can talk to me. You don't have to talk to me. There was a couple people who were a bit of a lifeline. That's terrible. It was really bad. All right. You eventually go to McGill. You study accounting. You started doing stand-up. Yeah. And you were getting your first study paychecks as an accountant after you graduated. But you continued doing stand-up going by Riffka, your given name at work, and Robbie in the comedy clubs.

Can you talk me through that? Was that like an alter ego? You saw them as two different people? No, no. It wasn't like a Beyonce Sasha Fierre. So it was literally a practical decision. My name is Riffka. But I didn't want the accounting firm to think that I did stand-up or I wasn't living for the firm because it was a very big culture at these professional jobs that you live and die for this firm. So when I started stand-up, I didn't want really people knowing that I was

leaving to do stand-up, leaving at 7 p.m. to go to stand-up shows. So I just didn't want my name

“on any flyers or anything. So that's why I went with Robbie. It was my uncle's name.”

It was an R initial. I watched a TEDx talk you gave in 2015 that that's still up there. It's it makes me cringe beyond. But go ahead. I don't know why I come in here. I researched you.

I found it to be very right. First of all, it was poignant. It was good. Good job, younger Rob.

I don't know why I'm salty about shit. I shouldn't even be salty about. I look for problems. This is what I do. To complain is to enjoy for me. And so I can't even look at something good and say you know what? That was a good thing. Fine. So one thing you said is comedy chooses you. Oh yeah. And you also said the stage understands me and it's where I'd like to live. It's crazy because I'm like the most uncomfortable to bring it back to comfort.

Like probably one-on-one, probably like little small talks or kind of little dinner parties or something like that where I can be a little bit socially. But on stage when everything goes black in the room and the lights are on me, I feel like I'm in a womb. I feel like like I'm free.

And I always work small and then bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger. Now I'm working in large.

I feel like you know, like there's some artists who paint still lives on eight by ten campuses and small works. And then there's like the Jackson Pollux that need like a bucket of paint splashing from here to the other room onto a canvas the size of this rug. And I feel like I'm like these stages are those I'm working in massive scale now. Much bigger sale and I feel at fucking home. I'm like these theaters are my shit. What do you think that is? I don't know. It's amazing.

I don't know how to explain it better than that. But I do think that comedy chooses you.

“I think you can choose it and the people who choose it, you know, some of them.”

You can tell they chose it. It didn't choose them. And you know, it's everybody's on their own journey. But I also, you know, it's very difficult because as soon as I started Santa Boba's like, I gotta do this now. Like this is really throwing a wrench into my plants. I was going to marry good, get a good job and just leave like middle class, like whatever, like, you know, just consistently live. Maybe have a condo, have a husband that now I'm gay. Now the job's going,

now I gotta, I have to really consider pursuing art, which seemed like the poorest thing you could do. And I'm trying not to be poor anymore. And now I'm like, I could be really poor. Like this is no joke, Rob. But I just, I felt like it was a calling because, yeah, I don't want I wanted not to be, but I, but it was like, well, I do have this shot and I do have it. So I can't believe it, but I have to do this. You said earlier that growing up,

nothing was too taboo to joke about. And, you know, in your comedy, it is true. Nothing is off limits in your material. You said in a recent interview that anyone can do anything. I just want to explore a little bit about like how you think about your comedy. Okay, yeah. You know, do you mean you don't have to be part of a group to make fun of it? I think anyone could do

He's not trans. It's not on trans spectrum, but he can, he can do it. But people can clap back.

“I think you can do whatever the hell you want, but also know that it could perceive,”

it'd be perceived by people, however the hell they want. How do you think about what you would or wouldn't do? Because you've joked about AIDS, pedophilia, late term abortions. Is there something that, yeah, I know that that's quite a list. You gotta go listen to the jokes. You can't just listen to it. No, exactly. I want to, I want to make that clear. Gotta go listen to the jokes. Okay. It's hard to talk about comedy actually out of context. Thank you,

please. I want to say, but is there something that you won't joke about or

haven't found the right way to joke about? I'm sure. I don't know how to answer that.

I really joke about jokes come to you. It's divine. It's, I don't choose idea. Where do I get? It gets philosophical. Where does an idea come from? Yes, you know, you're informed by your life and all of the experiences. And the one day you're walking, oh, that would be funny. Ooh, can I do that? Can I not? Well, I have to strive. Is there a like a Robbie Hoffman

“joke? Like is there? Because you have very distinctive style. All the great comics do, right?”

Like, I think you'd be better able to describe what Robbie Hoffman comedy is like than me. It's very hard for me to objectively see myself. It's fair. You know, it's like whatever I talk about because it came to me. There wasn't, it wasn't that deep. It can go deep as I'd explore the topic. And oftentimes probably I've been told that it's like not what you expect. How do you feel about being controversial? Because you said that people can be

make jokes and people also have a right to clap back. I mean, you know, there is this continuum where the more famous you get, the more scrutiny you get, the more backlash you get. I can see that through line in your career already. We just had the Celiax come after you. Yeah, they only two communities that have come after me. Historically enough have been the pitbull community after the special, in which I said some of the, I talked about some of the topics you listed.

So elegantly a couple minutes ago of all the things I said in that special. Raising the age of abortion till ten years old, the pitbull people came after me. Turns out there as scary as the dog. I did not know this. Okay. The only other people to come after me is the Celia community. I mean, you can't make this stuff up. Right. And Celiax is a real disease that affects mostly white women who are privileged to have health care to get the diagnosis. Right. People

of color tend to be less aware or not diagnosed with these things as much because they lack health care, unfortunately in this country. So it was a funny, you know, I was asked a silly question about it. I was asked about gluten, you know, in a hard hitting interview with color daddy. And I responded jokingly as I always do. But nothing more serious than that. But of course, rich white women came after me as, you know, they're at the helm of both the pitbull

and the Celiax community. So that made sense for me. But of all the things that I've ever said, rich white women are at the head of the pitbull community. Yeah. They like to rescue dogs. Which is a great. I'm just joking. Right. Just like I joked about those other things. You know,

they're not upset. It's amazing that more people from other communities haven't. It's always like

the people who are like, I don't know. I have a problem too. It's like, yeah, we all have problems, bitches. It's fine. You know, it's kind of like, I shouldn't get in trouble. I will get in trouble for this. But it's kind of like how I feel about anti-Semitism. Like anti-Semitism is bad.

“I don't want anti-Semitism. I get that. But is it the worst thing? No. To me, right now, it's not,”

especially the living in the country where there's massive anti-Mexican sentiment and Mexican people are currently being rounded up or made to fear that they're going to be rounded up. So sorry, if I'm not screaming as much about anti-Semitism as you want me to. Right now, I have bigger focuses on some of my neighbors that are going through horrendous anti-Mexican sentiment. So yes, it's bad. But I'm not such a person that thinks, oh, I'm going to live a life free of any problems.

I don't think being offended is the worst thing. I think being porous for me. Offended. Some people expect to go through a life of not being offended, I guess. Not me. I was born offended. My whole circumstance was fucking offensive. Again, like I said, if I hit your community, also hitting my community, they're hitting me. You're hitting me. A soul fair game. It doesn't mean anything more than that. But that it's a

more inclusive approach. I'm including everybody. Nobody is above. I was asked a question.

What I go out of my way to talk about Celiax and ever in a million years, I don't even want to know about it.

“Okay. That said, did I happen to bring more awareness to Celiax than anybody else has?”

Look what that did. In the end, how many people are more aware of it? So look at God. He sends us gifts in ways we don't understand. But yeah, everything is fair game. And I don't expect to live a life not being offended. And I don't think it's okay for something to bristle you and to make you think something or feel something or react somehow. Well, you are articulating a Robbie Hoffman joke. I mean, in a real way, you're articulating something that you like to make people,

I don't like. I just do, I guess, my existence. It's not like I like. I didn't set out to do anything. I'm acting in the moment reacting to stuff that, you know, it's not that serious. I'm not a journalist. I'm not from the New York Times. I'm a comedian. You know what I mean? So I might not know everything and I'm wrong a lot. And that's fine, too. I'm not expecting to be right all the time. I'm not expecting to live an offensive free life. I just don't have expectations like this.

So I guess, just to bring it back. So I'm not trying to do anything but just be me. And when I get an idea, bring it to you. All right. We only have a few minutes left. Love you. I don't have a good time, actually. Good. Me too.

“You're in the TV show hacks, which just ended. What's the experience meant for you?”

Oh, amazing. It changed my life. I mean, it changed my life. I'm eminominated actor now.

Congratulations. Thank you. Six lines an Emmy by the Grace of God. And yeah, it's just, it's been an amazing experience. I don't know. It's just everything you would want. A part written for you and gets you an Emmy now. It's amazing. I have no complaints there. I was really entertained by a recent article. Oh, good. Where I saw the headline how hacks botched its Yiddish line. It was in response to a cutaway gag from one of the last episodes of hacks.

The scenes just a few seconds and you say it's line and Yiddish. And the author wrote that the line was grammatically incorrect and then said very archely, quote, as any fluent Yiddish speaker will confirm. I asked my mother how to say what was it? Free. I was using the word fry and my mother said

"machinum." So I added the first part of the line, which maybe was grammatically incorrect,

who cares, the comidia. It's not a very used word in Yiddish to say a comedy show. It's kind of an Englishism in Yiddish. So it's like, this is what annoys me about Jews. It's like, they want me to speak about anti-Semitism. We get Yiddish on to the show. And then this Jewish publication has an issue with the Yiddish. So yeah, I may have gotten the grammar wrong on there, but my mother got the word right and it's like, "which any Yiddish speaker would know,

my mother is fluent in Yiddish." She I asked her one word on the phone. She doesn't need to be indicted for this. Feel like it hurts you. Yes, I bothered me annoyed. You see, it goes to your thing of like, uh, with more fame, you know, you have like the scrutiny and you know, my little sister gets excited about all these things because she's like, we're going up, up, up, up, up, up.

“You know, when you have the haters, she's like, you have to start having. So she gets excited”

with all these listen because it means they care. Right? Like if they, if I'm being scrutinized, well, I'm not a nobody to be scrutinized anymore. They wouldn't scrutinize me if I was a nobody. But I have somebody now, everything I say is, did she, did she come on? We have other fish to fly. All right, we are going to talk again with our say for now. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you guys. After the break, I talked to Robbie again and asked if the pressure of being famous

is getting to her. The whole point is, I'm new to this. I think people are curious about that. I'm new to this and, you know, I don't want anyone or I don't need anyone coming for me. [Music]

If you couldn't tell, that is Mariah Carey. I'm John Carey Monica, one of the critics behind the New York Times' 30 greatest living American songwriters project. We interviewed some of the songwriters on our list, including Taylor Swift, who hasn't sat for a video like this in a long time. These are not ordinary conversations. You're going to watch these videos and learn about intimate approaches to craft in ways that you rarely have access to. My mom had got me this notebook

and I was just writing it really small because I didn't want anybody to read what I was writing. Okay, Jay-Z's teenage notebooks. I need to see those. Watch all the video interviews for free and check out the entire 30 greatest living American songwriters project at NYTimes.com/30 greatest or in the app. And let us know if you agree with our picks. I bet you won't. Hi nice to see you again. Nice to see you again. You're stretching because you're on the

“East Coast now. Yes, I work last night. What does that mean? Were you doing stand-up?”

Yeah. Oh, fun. How was it? Really good, actually. Yeah. It's been good. It was it was a late night, but it was a good night. Oh, this is pulling, but I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. Okay. You know, one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you is not only because I've admired your work, but I'm also really interested in transition periods in people's lives and we spoke about sort of many of yours in our first conversation. And about how this moment you've become a lot more

famous and there's a real big period of transition for you now. Yeah, that's true. You know, and I just sort of wondered because of that, you know, we did talk about in our first conversation, some of the criticism that you might have received. And I wonder if it just feels hard to deal with. I would say, you know, I'm so used to so many changes. My career has again been very slow and steady. I think that by the time you're ready for promotion, it might be too late.

So I think I'm ready, but it is interesting, you know, the whole point is I'm new to this. I think people are curious about that. I'm new to this. And, you know, I don't want anyone or I don't need anyone coming for me. But I think the big thing for me as I navigate this next level is like, what, why am I successful? Why are my shows successful? Why does everybody come together? And I think it's because I don't need to be a part of like this big machine of dividing us by

having a squabble about this and that, the red and the blue of it all, you know what I mean? I'm like, it's enough part taking in petty squabbles when we have bigger shit going on.

You know what I mean? And if you want the us versus them at my core, it's always been about

“the rich versus the poor. And that's what we, you know, I think we need to focus on. I always”

bring it back to that. You know, I think struggle brings us together. And I've just been screaming about this since growing up the way I grew up. And whenever somebody tries to like grab me into their thing, it's no problem. It happened to be a part of a billion communities, but I don't need to get lost in the tip of attack. Part of your favor is also a compounded by relationship with Gabby Windy, who you married last year. She's unbelievable. Thank God for her. Yeah, she was on the

Bachelor in Bachelor at and she was also breakout on the Traders, which I love. The Bambees. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, I got a question. First, did you think she was Trader material or

did you always see her as a faithful? I thought she was a faithful. She doesn't need all the stress

of lying. The problem is we can't really lie. That's probably why we get in trouble.

“Some of us, we say this. We say that. Some people ask me, like, oh, you would be on the show.”

I'd be out first. Look, I would literally be out first. First of all, I'm like, I'm a Trader. You got to get rid of me. Like, I would be too nervous. Like, I would need to go home. I don't have the temperament for it. You know, I'm simultaneously, again, the most nervous and confident person. I don't know how that happened either. But I'm always this decotomous now. I'm always non-binary, not just in the gender sense. I've Canadian. I'm American.

I'm nervous. I'm confident. The whole thing is a disaster. So I don't think I have the temperament

for that show. That said, she is a fighter. She did amazing. And I said, when she would call,

I got one, one call a week with her. And I would just say, just take the money and come home. Fuck 'em. Just this is a game. And that's that. I don't know if it's swear. Yeah. Really? Oh, I'm stuck again, Seth. My hair is stuck. Seth will come and save you. He keep. I have a man in my hotel room. It's been a minute. I got to say, since I got a man in my hotel room. I lost my virginity actually with a man in

Okay. Fantastic. You got it? Okay. Sorry about that. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah.

“Fine. Three thrusts, maybe. Okay. So back to Gabby, your wife. I've seen you talk about her”

with so much love and so much respect. It's actually incredibly beautiful. Thank you. Have you had to figure out what a good relationship looks like because of the chaos of your upbringing, the chaos of her upbringing? Yeah. Of course. I mean, I'm, you know, we met in our 30s because of the ways we grew up. Like, I grew up, yes, single mom household poor. But I did have a, in a way, a pretty stable. I know I moved from New York to Montreal and there was that sent to Miami,

what you got, Lou doesn't miss anything. But my mother was home every day. This woman was cooking and cleaning, cooking and cleaning, cooking and cleaning. I knew every day where my mother was to this day. If I got to go find my mother, I know exactly where she is. Gab didn't have that.

“Gab didn't have that. Gab had, you know, maybe, you know, a parent who was not there. Oftentimes”

didn't know what the parent was. You know, then went to live with her dad. But I'm just saying she didn't have that consistency. So, Gab used to think that bringing up something with me would be that I would leave if she had, if she thought I was annoying, which we've established. I've long been annoying and I apologize. So, she used to like, if something hurt her feelings or if, I don't know, she didn't like the way that I did something. If I left the cabinet open,

so it could be tiny. She just wouldn't say because she wouldn't want me to go away. But I was like, I'm not, babe, I've closed the cabinets. It's just insane. We can't live like this. We're trying me, trying me. So, she had to get comfortable trusting that and I had to get comfortable that she was tipped about everything. So, it just worked. It's kind of like, it's not our job to heal each other. But through the relationship we are healing each other. It's not the job, but it's the

cherry. And it's just really nice to like design kind of the life you want to, it's like I've said with Gab. When I was a kid and I hated my brothers, I would just come home and complain about my brothers all the time. And my mother would say, "You don't choose your family, they're your brothers." And then I realized it's a loophole. If I marry Gabby, I choose my family. It's a one-time you choose your family. Choose wisely. Last question. The theme that's it. Last question.

Yeah, I would just say. So, the thing that you've made clear, I think throughout our entire conversation, is that class is at the center of how you want to communicate your comedy, your work.

And you know, it made me really reflect about, in many ways, how America always wants to present

itself as so aspirational and to hide the ugliness, the trauma, the poverty that underlies it all. And I think what makes you so provocative is that you are really trying to put that front and center in a way that I don't think many people are. Have you felt that dissonance? Have you, do you feel?

“Yeah, I do feel it, especially doing more oats or elites publications. That's why I'm nervous,”

like with the times or things like this. You know, I'm always, you asked me if I was comfortable in my own house last time. No, I'm not comfortable. So, I just think that like,

I'm cognizant to just always be me, stand what I stand for no matter what, and we can start

really changing the focus to not be distracted and to focus on us. Not you versus me, or this, or that, it's just classes and effects, everybody. The conversation, basically, to answer your question, simply, it shouldn't be a new conversation. It's a big conversation and it's the conversation. I don't know if that's even more succinct. What do you think, Seth? He nodded. Do you think it's succinct? Pithy? What's Pithy in succinct? Pithy is short, succinct is also short.

I'm glad Seth, our producer, Seth, shout out to Seth who's literally sitting on the floor in my hotel room. I wish, can we pull the camera here? All right, Robbie Hoffman, thank you so much

of really appreciate your time. That's it. Okay. Oh my god, we're finally done. Okay, thank you, Lulo.

Thank you to everyone. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate you. I appreciate you. Thanks, guys. That's Robbie Hoffman. To watch this interview and many others, you can subscribe to our

Kelly. It was edited by John Boo, mixing by a theme Shapiro. Original music by Dan Powell and

“Marion Lizano. Photography by Devon Yelkin. The rest of the team is pre-amathue, white warm,”

poll, a new door of Joe Bilman Yoos, Eddie Costas, Catalina Brian and Brooke Mentors. Our executive

producer is Allison Benedict. Next week we're off, but the week after we'll share David's

“interview with Mick Jagger. You have to have a huge ego to do this. If you don't, you have,”

lots of people that do this that don't have huge egos have huge problems. I'm Lulo Garcia

Navarro, and this is the interview from The New York Times.

“This week on The Wire Cutter Show, we're talking all about frozen summer treats,”

and the best gear for making them at home. Whether you want to spend 10 bucks or invest in something more, which sure is. Do you guys like Jolato? I love Jolato. It's my favorite type of ice cream. Okay, so you have to get the ice cream. Find The Wire Cutter Show wherever you listen to podcasts.