Seth Rogen Knows the Secret to Marriage — and Being Rich in Hollywood

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I'm Lillegar Sienovaro. At 44, Seth Rogen seems to be having the opposite of a midlife crisis. His series, the studio, which he created, writes, stars in, directs and produces, just

one 13 Emmys, and is currently filming its second season.

Kilsu stars in and produces the very funny Apple TV Plus show Platonic with Rose Burn. His production company, Point Great Pictures, has been banging out the hits, like the Dark Superhero series The Boys, and his new movie The Invite, directed by Olivia Wilde, has been generating a lot of buzz. So I wanted to talk to Rogen about how he went from acting in the quickly canceled TV

show Creaks and Geeks as a teenager to writing Slack or movies like Superbad, having one of the most prolific, wide-ranging and successful careers in Hollywood. Here's my conversation with Seth Rogen. Seth Rogen, thank you for being on the interview. Thank you for having me.

You were recently just in Ken, which you go too often.

I've never been a Ken, no, never.

That was my first time. I just assumed I actually didn't know one way or the other, but no, I'd never been. Why? I don't generally make the kind of films that go to film festivals and have that type of attention or focus in any way.

So no, I'd never made anything that was I can before. Oh, it's funny because, you know, we very luckily have had very, like I say, we like my, me and my group, I guess the Royal Wii, I'm Canadian, close enough, but you know, we've had very long, lovely careers where up until very recently. We didn't really do any of this stuff festivals, awards, things like that.

“And I think honestly, in our heads, we really kind of assumed it, which is that that was”

not what our careers held and we were really at peace with that. And so now that I am starting to get to go to festivals like Ken and see it, it is funny that there's like this entire other side of the industry that has sort of just been

withheld from from me for the last 20 years and, and I never really, I never thought about

it that much because I always just thought, like, yeah, that's like, that's for those types of movies. But now, it is amazing, like the level of industry and infrastructure and sort of pomp and circumstance that I had nothing to do with all these years. Just feel like a lot of parties, I was never invited to it until now.

So, yeah, it was really exciting, you know? I find it very comforting that there's a velvet rope that you were not allowed to go by. There's plenty more, trust me, even now that I'm here, there's many more velvet rope that I'm not, I'm not invited to be beyond. I have this theory that there's always another room that you just don't get into.

I remember as a kid hearing like, I can't remember who was saying it, he was a judge or Gary Stanley, one of these old or comedians I was hearing out of it, he was like, you work you way up through Hollywood and eventually you were led into a room alone with Jack Nicholson. And that's like, that's the end of the line.

“It's just you and him and a small room together and that's what you're like, I did it.”

So, you do have another film, which is the invite and you play Joe. Joe is an angry person whose long-term marriage to Angela played by Olivia Wilde, who also directs the movie is not in a good place. I saw this recent interview where Olivia Wilde said you were both non-confrontational people, but in this role you access and this is a quote, "you're deep rage."

And I want to understand what Seth Rohan's deep rage is, "Tell me what you meant." I mean, I don't know if that, I'm glad she thought that way, if that was helpful for the film, you know, I think it was, you know, I think, you know, as we were rehearsing and working on the script leading up to shooting, it just seemed like the more like palpably uncomfortable the couple was, the more uncomfortable the audience would be, the more uncomfortable

the other couple would be entering the environment.

And it's really unpleasant to be around and there is this like simmering undercurrent of anger and in every moment where you would choose to forgive or excuse a person that you actually cared deeply about, like these people choose not to forgive and excuse their partner and they choose to make a big deal out of it or to use it as an opportunity to make a dig at their partner or say something heard fuller, feel superior or something like that.

And those are people I'd been, I mean, and continue to be around in my life and I've always

found that it incredibly unpleasant and to me that resentment was something that I thought would be very, you know, like additive to the film and would create like a tone and environment that that served the film. It didn't mean we wonder what causes you to feel deep rage or are you this person that does not feel that?

“No, I get really angry sometimes and it's mostly, I think it's evolved over the years”

and what makes me angry, like, you know, I used to really get angry about, I mean, like, for lack of a better expression when I would say, like, people fucking with my shit. Like, like, when I was doing something like a creative endeavor and I felt like the powers that be were just messing it up for no good reason and were, were obstructing me from expressing what I wanted to express and what I felt would, would create a great product

ultimately and they were interrupting that processor or again, just complicating it or making it needlessly painful and that was a thing that used to really enrage me more privately, you know, but at times, you know, I bet people have worked with over the years

would say that I, I'm not always 100% pleasant to understand when it comes to those types

“of situations, you know, but honestly, over the years, I've seen that we very rarely lose”

those arguments and we almost always get to do it, we want creatively and there's a number instances I could probably count on one hand where we've actually, like, been forced to do a thing that we really don't want to do creatively and I think over time I realized it's like not worth getting that angry about that stuff anymore because it just, it rarely manifests into a thing that I actually don't like, it's more the fear of it would enrage me, you know?

But now I think as I've gotten older, it's more like it's more, it's much more directed inwards, it's much more I get mad at myself and I get disappointed in myself or I will do a thing that I don't feel like I did as well as I could or I will feel like I'm spinning out over something or rumenating on something or or fixating on a thing and then I'll get mad at myself for removing myself from the day-to-day present experience I should be having

because I'm somewhere else fixated on some dumb thing, you know what I mean? That is usually my own doing something that I felt like I didn't do well enough, something that I'd said that I wish I hadn't said or something like that, that is much more where my anger lies, these things like at my own, at my own behavior, at my own, at myself, which is probably not healthy but that's, you know, I'm doing my best over here, I go to therapy. Let me, can you give me an example of

“a moment where something got intervened in that you felt did a disservice to your vision?”

It's been a long time, honestly, and we, the whole reason we became producers and made a production company which was like 10 years ago at this point, I think maybe more, was to like insulate ourselves and really try to protect ourselves from that happening, you know? He's good work cannot come from by committee, is that like, no, I have a very strong committee, like, and I have a partner specifically,

like, I am amazing, good work comes from any singular person, you know? I need sounding boards,

you know, and, you know, I'm filming the studio right now, so I'm very like in it, but like, I just see that like the team we have on set are cinematographer, editor, our writers, the production designer, the costume people, the camera operator, like, these people make the show better. I think at the end of the day, and I say this all the time, the hardest part of being a director for me is when is when you are the only one who thinks a certain thing,

and when everyone's looking at you like you're crazy, and you have to be like, no, this is what

and if I don't do the thing that I really think is right, even though everyone's looking at me like,

“I don't think this is right, and 99% of the time, the committees in league, and then 1% of”

the time, my partner standing there, and everyone's looking at us like, we're crazy, and we're like, this is what we have to do, and to me, like, the thing I hit the most is when I make a thing, and it isn't quite what everyone hoped, and someone who was there is like, you know, I kind of, maybe thought that maybe this wasn't going to work, and that's when I'm like, say something, like, you were right, say something, not like, I wish you had said that, because you would have made

me see something that I wasn't seeing, and if you had said that, then this would actually more reflect

what I want to be putting out in the world, not less reflect that, you know, and I mean,

and so that is something I like just recognize over the years, like, it's really valuable, like,

“to me personally, you know, you know, it fills me with rage, someone coming and saying, I told you”

so. Yeah. I don't like that either. Just to return to the movie briefly, the movie's funny tender, very dramatic, as a long-term married person, it brought up a lot of familiar themes. I was saying to my producer also called Seth, by the way, that he opened the fight him now. Yeah, you did. We were saying there has to be a case that... It's a high lander. Yeah. Every time I meet one. That opening scene where you and Olivia

are fighting bitterly over the dinner party, she is throwing for the neighbors, she'd forgotten to tell your character about it. I'd had that very same argument that week with my husband. There you go. Yeah. With her things in the movie that hit home for you, obviously you've been with your partner, Lauren Miller, for a long time. What did it bring up for you? And also the fellow actors, as you were portraying this very complicated emotional dynamic? I mean, we rehearsed

the movie for a little while going into it, and the movie was completely rewritten, I would say, in like the weeks leading up to shooting. Huge ideas that are in the movie were not there at all, when we started the rehearsal. And so the movie actually changed a lot as we were leading into filming. And that's not uncommon. And what's funny with a movie like this, and you're rehearsing, the actors are there, the writers are there, and you're talking about relationships,

and at some point you kind of have to define what according to this film at least is a good relationship, and what is a bad relationship, you know? And people really bring their own personal stuff into those definitions, you know what I mean? And what you very quickly see is that, oh, like what I view as a bad relationship is not what these people necessarily view as a bad relationship, or maybe she agrees with me, but maybe they have a very, this person does not agree with me. And

they view what I would view is completely unacceptable to be normal in a relationship and things like that. So as we were rehearsing, it rightly, like I remember feeling like I could really confidently speak about what a very good relationship was like. And one that had been good for a very long time. I mean, I think it's a couple who is nice to each other, who loves each other, and who goes out of their way to excuse the other person rather than to find things that they

hate about the other person, not blaming it. But to me, it comes down to like, like a caring, you know, like, and like a tenderness and a niceness that is born out of a desire to do that

“for the other person, which I think is also very important. It's like you have to want to love”

your partner, and you have to want them to love you back, you know, and I think you have to be intimate with your partner and sexually attracted to your partner. And I think that that should be returned as well. And I think and the movie really gets into that. And so very quickly be in the other cast members and the writers found ourselves having what maybe we did tend to be incredibly revealing

conversations. But what ultimately, you couldn't, you couldn't hide wearing incredibly

revealing conversations, because ultimately you're arguing, oh, I think this is, this is healthy, or this is not healthy, you know? Are you just, are you saying, you know, you now know more about Penelope Cruz's marriage? Yes, exactly! I do know how you're hard to, uh, about M had back problems with that, that we're similar to my characters, which was a funny, you know, again,

stress and emotion, more and more so than a physical ailment. And so, yeah, so all that stuff kind of comes out. So Esther Perrell, the relationship psychotherapist and best-selling author, was a consultant on the film, was she mediating something? I mean, what were you guys having group therapy or something? No, I mean, obviously for Bikes periods, we just talked about her a lot. Like,

“and, and I think there was a point where like, we were kind of dancing around just like using”

her philosophies in the film. And honestly, I think, maybe that made them go to her and be like, well, you'd be a consultant on the film. And because, because I think there was some

fear at first of like, are we, are we overlapping? And I, I remember being like, just embrace it,

like, like, we are saying what she says. That is the point of this. We agree with it. We all agree with it. What is the it? The it is this, I think, to me, it's this very simple idea of that you have many relationships throughout your life as you change and you age and your perspective changes. And, and, and sometimes your partner changes with you and you have several relationships with the same person that have new parameters and new boundaries and new new new guidelines that

are reflective of who you are as you become different people. And sometimes you becoming compatible with that person and and you start a relationship with a new person. And it just, it just really rang true and it's like, I've seen in couples that I know and something I've seen in my own relationship. Like, you know, me and my wife started dating when we were like 23 years old or something like that, you know, and so we're obviously very different people than we were in our early 20s,

another in our mid 40s, but we grew in a way that we stayed very compatible with one another. You know, and I've seen other couples not have that happen, you know. I'm glad you brought this up because I have a theory about your relationship. Great. Well, I saw you talk about your wife on Howard Stern and you told several anecdotes

of basically boiled down to, I was on drugs and my wife encouraged me to go on live television.

Get on stage with Madonna. Do something potentially publicly risky but very fun. And I just loved that because this is clearly someone that is sort of the opposite of trying to shut you down or you know, circumscribe you. She wants you to be full self. She does. Yes, and at times

“we'll also tell me maybe it's too much. I say it a very good way. And it's honestly like when we were”

making the neighbors movies, that was like a lot of the dynamic between me and Rose Burn came from conversations with me and Lauren, where it was like we, she's not like the naggy woman who's trying to shut down the fun like she's being her love doing the same stuff and if anything, yeah, she's

like encouraging you know. And so we've always, I think in a great way like fundamentally

been on the same page is one another and like to do the same actual things with our day is one another, which I think it's also just a thing that like you see is like, oh, this couple like just doesn't want to spend their day doing the same thing anymore. And then you stew and now they don't. And now like she wants to do this, he wants to do this and and and they might still care about each other, but it's just like what they want to do all day is completely different, you know,

“and we like doing the same things, which is also good. I think what do you wish she'd stop you from”

doing? Nothing written out. If anything, she has successfully stopped me from doing things I shouldn't have done, which is good. She's a very good track record with that. So you often play with word of desire in your projects. You know, dude wants a hot girl isn't in her league. And that frustration is often sort of comedic and played for comedic effect. Could you give me your theory of what makes desire funny? To me, it's more just like what a character is getting in their own way

of what they want is the funniest thing for a character to do. And when a character fundamentally has a personality that does not allow them to easily achieve what it is that they want and and they are their own worst enemy and they they are doing things that are making their own situation harder and worse. That to me is the funniest thing. And I think it does come from something I relate to deeply, which is like the thing that makes you the happiest also is the most painful thing in your

life at times, you know. And I think like Larry Sanders shows the thing that me and Evan my partner

comedic character in that like he's constantly trying to be someone he isn't. He's constantly trying to be cool to the employees that he works for or works with. But he just is to wound up and to allow it to happen. And he wants to think he can he can date a woman who's more famous than he is, but he just can't. And he wants to think he can allow his sidekick to be funny, but he just is ego won't allow it. And so it's sort of this like conflict between like what the worst

part of your ego make you do versus what your purest desires like want you to do, you know.

Okay, this is kind of a little bit of a silly question, but it is something that I've always

been curious about. In a lot of your films, there isn't some big pretty woman moment though, for the dude, when you get a makeover and you're suddenly like pumped up, you always have of getting the girl, but you don't get the glow up. There isn't like this, this big moment where all of a sudden, you know, you're kind of rip off your shirt and there you are. And you know, I was thinking like long shot with Charlize Thera and all these things, is being funny or sexier

than being hot? I mean, you have a joke, but no, he answers no. Being hot is better. He can help. What do you think about the characters? I'm not personal.

It's funny, like when we were making movies when I was younger, that the joke I was always

making as we were making them is like, "Oh, like my guy's going from wearing a t-shirt to a polo shirt." Like, that was always like the arc. Like, "Oh, he got a putty, he got a putt-up shirt." Like, "Wow." And even then, I could recognize kind of like the silliness of that to that

“superficial, it all was, you know? So I think more so as we got older and we were, you know,”

making more of these types of movies like that more became, I think the idea is like, it shouldn't be some like superficial thing. You know, movie like long shot, it should be like fundamental character things that are evolving and changing and they're influencing one another in a way that isn't just how they look and dress, but it is more like as people they are enriching one another. You know what I mean? And so yeah, I think that's had a more of that type of thing

came from, but truthfully, I don't make that many. Like, I've made a romantic thing in quite a long time. That's true. Yeah, it's true. Yeah, it's, I think as I'm in a very good relationship and have been in for a long time, it's like not that creatively interesting to me, so like show two people falling in love with one another. Like, it's not where my brain goes, you know? And I think also when we

were first grown up, especially it was like every movie had a romantic storyline or like conflict

“between the main couple that had to be resolved in some way and I think that also just, I remember”

we were making pineapple Express like we sort of have like a really silly ridiculous storyline with me and, and like the women, you know, a character and it's like not even remotely a romantic storyline. It's sort of like this disastrous thing, you know? And I remember the time when it was like, it has to be romantic, but that's a movie has and we were like, no, like that, that's not. We don't care that much about that. And knocked up like I think it was like all about that

and long shot was like, it was like a romantic comedy, you know? But I think, yeah, to me, it was, it was either more interesting to like fully explore this dynamic or not explore it at all and not have it be like in a obligatory part of our things. And it's why I honestly guys we're making the studio now, it's like there's no romantic storylines on the show. There is. They're not really like,

“a little, a little, a little, a little kind of, but like that. I mean, your dating life is a part of”

the context. Yes, it's in one episode and it's like, and the whole joke is that I can't date, you know what I mean? And so other than that, it's not like a thing where tracking is like, that's, that's dating life. Like, it's sort of like a non, there's sort of like an asexuality to the show in a weird way, which, which to me is fine. That's interesting. It is, um, you got to work with one of the great Catherine O'Hara in the studio. How did you experience

that loss? Did you have any particular memories of working with her and a good Catherine O'Hara stories? Oh, I mean, so many like when we first conceived of the show, like she was the one that we wanted on it more than anybody like, and, and to me and Evan, she was like a god to us, especially

and like, and, and her being in it and, and then I, as we got older, we just became obsessed with like Christopher guest films and waiting for government and, and things like that, and, and Beetlejuice was one of my favorite movies ever growing up, so to us, she was just like, as funny

as, as a person could be, you know, and then, I mean, getting to work with her on the first season,

like, it really like pushed us to want to do right by her and to want to make the show, live up to her standards and what we felt she deserved, and she plays your sort of mentor in this. Yeah, and she plays my mentor and kind of a maternal figure to me, which she sort of was at times as we were making the show and would send us notes on the scenes, we're completely rewrite the scenes as I say, and like the most Canadian way ever, she would send me an avenue email being like,

here's some thoughts, and then would be a completely re-inversion of the scene, and it would be like, take it or leave it, and it was like, such a funny Canadian way of being like, this is better,

“you should do this, but not never said it with those words, you know. And then it was just incredibly”

sad. We just started to hear she was sick, and we'd see her and she heard she wasn't doing well,

as we were nearing the second season, you know, it was, we would just talk to her and it was

she would clear health was not great, but she really wanted to come back and intended to come back, and, and I think it was a real like goal for her to come back and keep doing the show, and I think she was really looking forward to coming back and doing the show. And then, honestly, in the back of our heads, we were like, we hope she can, but we don't know if she will be able to, and so it is this kind of very sad thing, we're like, creatively, you're kind of making, like in the back

of your head, these contingency plans, but you kind of don't want to think about it, but your brain is kind of telling you one thing, and you're trying not to believe it in some ways, you know.

Yeah, and then we heard she passed away one morning, and with the first week of shooting,

the show, and it was really, really sad, and we were all together, the whole crew, and everyone loved her very much in the cast, and we kind of didn't know what to do, and we just kept shooting,

“and they were like, I think the idea of making each other laugh, and being together,”

felt preferable to anything else we could have done that day, you know. I'm sorry. So, um, I want to go back a little bit to your upbringing. You grew up in Vancouver. I sure did. We started in comedy really young. You started playing stand-up in clubs at 13. Yeah. And your mom was really encouraging. Uh-huh. She would let you stay out,

stay up all night, working on your routines, and I think that's pretty unusual for parent, whether ever moments of tension with her about it, that you wanted to do things that she wasn't letting you, or she just letting you kind of open that door and walk through it. Um, I mean, she was there all the time, so it wasn't that it wasn't like unsupervised freedom, you know what I mean? Like, so at once, it didn't, it's funny. Like, freedom is not the word I would use to describe it.

It was more like she was just very supportive of a goal I had. It didn't feel like my mom was just like taking me to comedy clubs and saying, "Oh, like, I was there to do something," you know,

“and, um, and the comedians were old, and I didn't like hanging out with them that much, honestly.”

Like, they were, it was fine hanging out with them, but I wasn't like, I want to be friends with these guys. Like, I was, I was a teenager. Like, I had teenager friends, you know what I mean? Like, and every time I did hang out with them, socially, was weird. And so, that wasn't the goal either. Like, it wasn't like I wanted to hang out with these old guys and get drunk or anything like that. Like, it more felt like I was really like ravenously pursuing a thing, and my parents recognized

like I was unique in a way that I was like pursuing this thing in a very serious way, you know? Use the word ravenously. That's such an interesting word. Is that how it felt? Yeah, I think for sure, one of the reasons that I, I think, especially from a young age, like managed to work a lot was because I, yeah, had like a, like, a real hunger for it. And was willing to really put in a huge amount of time and energy in a way that I, you know,

I assume maybe like teenage athletes would, you know, but for me it was, it was this, you know? And I loved it. And when me and Evan started writing super bad together, when we were 13 or 14, like, it's all I wanted to do, like, like, I would, we would skip school to write super bad.

And he is really motivated to try to succeed at this, not in like a cute, kid way,

“but in a way that felt real, I think, you know? Do you look back and think it's weird that”

you and Evan connected at 13? Yeah. And this, you know, but, and that it has just been this incredible partnership. It just seems to me the two boys who connected so fundamentally and had so much talent were able to be at the same place at the same time and, and keep it touch. Yeah, we marvel at it all the time. Like, it's not lost on us that it's sort of a miraculous thing. I think it was like two people with, like, a little spark met, but then together we became a singular

kind of creative entity in a lot of ways. And like, we're brain, our brains weren't even like fully formed when we met. Like, our brains, like, our creative brains really formed around one another. And like, I, I, I think that's not any small part of why we work so well together, why we continue to work together. Well together, because we started like a very young age together. And there became like a cohesion and thought that was really, like, it's impossible to replicate,

“I think, because like we truly grew up with each other and watched movies together all the time”

with talk about them. So first started to learn to write dialogue together and to experiment with that together and to try to structure a story together. And so inherently, like, what I think is good story structure is what he thinks is good story structure. What I think is good character development. He thinks is a character development. And what I think is a good way to write a scene. He thinks is a good way to write a scene, because we, we, we, we came up with it together.

Hmm. You ended up moving to LA at 16 to star in Freaks and Geeks after an open casting call in Vancouver, where you got the part. And, you know, one of the things that is also really interesting is that you were sort of financially supporting your family at 16. Yeah. Do you think that responsibility shaped your work ethic? I mean, you, you talk about, like, absolutely loving what you were doing, but that also feels like it might have been for sure.

“Yes. Something that felt like, I think I very much had, like, a fear of going broken,”

a fear of not having money and a lot of my friends that were much more well off than we were. And I would just see, I would go to their houses. It was, you know, it was like, it was like, a real house in, like, I grew up in, like, a co-op, like, in sort of, you know, in, like, like, a little housing community, basically. It was, like, sort of between, like, an apartment

in a, an inger condo, I guess, you know. And, um, and yeah, I, I, for sure. And I, and we were never,

like, you know, we were, like, going hungry or anything. But I could just see, I was, you know, very different financial situation than everyone that I was kind of in my community, you know, uh, I'm sure that had something to do with my drive from a young age. Has that shaped how you think about money and success now? I think if anything, this is probably not like the healthiest way to approach it is like, I think I spent so much time

worried about money when I was younger that now that I make more money than I ever thought I would, like, I think like the gift I've given to myself is I never think about it. Like, I have no,

I almost never think about how much money I'm spending or making. I don't fetishize money.

I don't care if other people are making more money than me doing the exact same thing as me. I don't have, like, an ego about it. I'm making more than than I ever thought I would. And so, I see other actors were very competitive. I've had conversations with other actors about it, you know, and, and, and, and that has just not been my approach to it. And as far as spending money goes, like, it's again, not a thing. I see rich people who are like, I'm like, you're focused on

that amount of money. Like, like, the amount of stress you are causing yourself over and amount of money that will never impact your life in any way, shape, or form is insane to me. And so, I get, I think, like, the gift I've given myself is I truly spend as little time thinking about it as humanly possible. And as little time trying to focus on it or fix it on it, I try not to be overly principled about it. If I feel like I'm getting charged more because of who I am,

I'm like, yep, that's the way. If you're going to charge anyone more, it's probably me, you know, I mean, and, and that's the way the world works. I try not to be philosophically, you know, up in arms about my own, you know, financial situation in any way. I don't care if I'm getting ripped off a little. I don't care if I'm overpaying for things a little honestly. Like,

I'm not, again, and I'm around people all the time. We're always who are rich. We're trying to get

makes them feel special or something more, it's funny. Like, there's this, uh, I read this book on,

I read that going clear booker, really. Every once in a while, you know, like you read like one sentence and like snaps your whole perspective into place a little bit. And I remember reading that book about Scientology and there was just one sentence in it about how famous people tend to do a thing where if they aren't treated in a certain way, they, it makes them think they're not as talented as they wish they were. And it's like, if I go to a restaurant and I have to wait 20 minutes for a

table instead of them just sealing me right away as, as they are the famous person next to me, it's because I'm not as, I'm, I'm not as talented as I thought I was and I'm not as good as I thought

I was. If I'm, you know, if I'm trying to get into a party and, and they don't just let me

“in and I have to wait in line, like, does that mean I'm not as good a writer as I thought I was?”

If I'm not getting a deal, if I'm not getting the best hotel room and I go next door and and someone has a nicer hotel room than me on the press tour, does that mean that I, I'm not as good an actor as I thought I was? And I think that is how a lot of famous people interpret how they are treated. And they think that if they're not getting the best treatment, they aren't as skilled as they wish they were as they thought they were. And that was a thing

that I realized when I read that, it's like, oh, it is tapping into some deep part of me that makes me worried I'm not as talented as I, as I, as I want to be, as I wish I was or, or, and that's it, because that's like the thing you, fear the most and is the most potentially painful. How did you work through that? How did you, because obviously you said you felt that at some point and that it changed for you? Honestly, as soon as I read that one sentence, it started to shift

for me. And I started to much more easily identifying myself when that was happening and I was able to sort of, I think, shift my behavior pretty quickly in the wake of that, yeah. Once you've moved out of that, how do you define your success? What are the metrics by what you say? You know what? This is good. I did well. I'm okay. I mean, I wish it had nothing to do with how the work was received, but it for sure doesn't. Like that, that is definitely a part of it, you know?

Obviously. Obviously. And, and I think that is the thing that most artists feel the most

“conflict about is like external validation versus did I do what I wanted to do, but the truth is”

if my work isn't received well, then I didn't do what I wanted to do, because because I want people to like what I do and to enjoy it. And especially when you're making comedy, which I think is the hardest thing to make in a lot of ways, because you are announcing that you are going for a specific reaction. And with a dramatic film, you're not really saying that. You're kind of saying like, you know, we hope you find it insightful or interesting or meaningful or sad or cathartic. But with a comedy,

you're saying like, I want you to laugh. And if you don't, I've failed. And, and it's also the making of it to me. Like that has to go a certain way. And, and that has to be a certain process. I think in order for the work to be successful. And I think the data day of it has to be cohesive to what I feel that should be in order for me to think the work is good, I think. I'm just very interested in that. So last question on this. But when I look at the studio,

you are the creator, the producer, the director, you help write it and you start in it. So it is really a set of broken production and every possible way that it could be. And then just to use, you know, the film that you're currently in, you're just acting. And obviously you helped craft the character and the dynamics, but it's not, you don't have the same kind of responsibility. My name is on at one time. Yeah. So can you parse that out from me in terms of that idea of

getting satisfaction or having it reflect yourself? How do you differentiate between those two

“different things? I mean, the truth is like I, for me, it is much more engaging to do what I'm”

doing on the studio. Like I, I greatly prefer to act and write and direct. And it's really

hard and taxing. It sounds really hard. It takes a lot of me, but I genuinely love it. And I never

feel like I am doing more of what I should and could be doing from like a creative standpoint than when I'm doing all those things. And when I'm on the set of the studio and I appreciate the

and when I am able to actually do them all well, I feel a level of creative satisfaction and

gratification that I will never get from just doing one of those things, you know? And so if I'm

going to act in a thing, it has to be a thing that I feel like I would really love the product of a movie that if I saw it, I was like, oh, like, that's the exact type of movie I love to watch

“and. And so like being in the fable men's Steven Spielberg. Yes, I think like that, you're like,”

of course, I'm going to work with Steven Spielberg and, and it'll be educational and, and I, and I then make it, put it on myself to really like extract everything I can from from the experience as well and and even if I'm acting for an hour a day, I'm on set all day and I'll, and I, I literally stood beside and just asked him questions. I would bring up scenes from his movies on

YouTube and just be like, explain to me how you did this, what, what did you think of how technically

did you do it and he loved it and I very, yeah, and I did that and, and I was just stood beside him all day asking him questions about how he filmed his movies and how he conceived of them, how he blocks them, how he storyboards, how he, you know, like, I think what I learned about blocking on the fable men's is like, was like directly put in the studio and how to move the actors around and move the camera around the characters and how to make it dynamic, even a scene where

people are at a dinner table talking and like, all that I was like, oh, I'm going to absorb all of this from from Steven Spielberg if I can. So the way I read your on screen and off screen history

is we sort of discussed it's sort of a testament to male friendship. There's Jed Apatau, of course,

who hired you for a freaks and geeks and then you met a whole bunch of buddies through that, Jason Siegel, James Franco and of course, you've had the same writing partner, Evan Goldberg as we've

“discussed. I asked you earlier, what makes a good relationship, what makes a good male friendship?”

I think the same things is any other dynamic, you know, like I found with, you know, Evan and the people, you know, I tend to work with my close friends, not all of them. I very close friends from growing up who I don't work with, but, you know, I think like a desire to be good to one another, which again sounds into it if I guess, but I think when I look at people who have bad relationships and bad dynamics, like that's the thing I notice is just like they

don't seem to want to be nice to each other and they seem to be looking for every reason to not be nice to each other and I think it comes down to like, do you like this person, you know, and I come from a world, yeah, where it's like it was not like a macho sports oriented, like environment, like everyone's parents were in therapy and, you know, like, I'm from the Pacific

“Northwest, you know, we were, I had a curve on a lot of that stuff in the 80s and 90s and so I think,”

like, I come from a group of friends who were very like communicative and open and not afraid of sort of sharing what they were feeling with one another. Why do you think that version of male friendship translated so well on screen? Me and Evan still marvel that like super bad is still remotely, not just like accepted in today's society, but it's a thing like kids still really seem to watch and like just like when we were young, we would all watch, we would watch fast times and

things like that, like it seems like super bad has somehow like filled the slot in many ways of like the high school movie you, you watch and relate to when you were in high school, you know, and and I think part of it is because like it is, it is about exploring kind of being vulnerable with your friends, you know, and and that I think is a coming of age thing like in and of its own right, you know, and I remember when I was moving to LA, I was I did a bunch of shrooms with my friends,

I was 16 years old and we were all there, house, we were at one of my friends houses and it was like the sun was coming up and I was laying on the couch and my friend Fogel who the club was based on was there laying on the couch beside me, like we were, it was like a sleepover and we were kind of, you know, and I remember just being like, I'm so terrified to like move to Los Angeles to do the show and I'm not going to see you guys anymore and I'm going to have no fright and no anybody

helped there and and he was like, yeah man, like high school insects here for us too, like I don't

to happen and like it felt like a big moment and it felt like the first time any of us had really

acknowledged to want another like how much we cared about one another and how afraid we would be

“without one another, you know, and I think that's like a feeling especially as high school”

ends and you're kind of going your separate ways for me it was to go work but it was no different then if I was going to a college and all my friends are going to a different one, you know, and I think that feeling a little different for all, you know, for logistically it was very similar, you know, and and I think that feeling was what we really tried to put into the movie was this feeling of, you know, not that high school's easy but there's you're on the cusp of something here on the

cusp of something unknown and I think that was however we were able to like bottle that feeling

and put it into the movie seems to resonate. I mean one interesting thing about your character in the invite is that he has no friends and I mean it just seems pretty reflective of what's happening in the culture today more broadly with me, you know, the loneliness epidemic. And I just wonder

“is Hollywood doing a good job of showing positive male friendships the way it used to?”

I don't know. No, because I think about it, what's one of the things I'm thinking about super bad and then I just, I just really, when I thought about your character in the invite and just what we're seeing in the culture writ large and someone who has really channeled male representation on screen. I mean, I came up watching leave the web and you know, various dealers day off, super bad. Yeah, things just don't seem to look like that anymore. I think, I mean, it's interesting.

Yeah, like we try to do it on the studio a little bit, you know, there's the stuff with me and I

like I think ultimately like that is a relationship we do keep like it's probably the most emotionally

kind of constant relationship on the show. But I don't know why other people don't explore it. I know we have just done it a lot. And so I think it's something as we look to. It's like, I mean, it's funny. We did this roast many years ago and Nick Kroll had a joke that really hit close to home where he was making fun of me and Evan on the roast and he was like, what are you guys going to make another movie where they're friends, then they stop being friends and then the

end their friends again. And I remember like me like, oh, yeah, that's that is every movie we've ever made. And I'll just say that's a bad thing. But the fact that he could boil it down, that's that's

“simply into a joke. But I think we were like, yeah, me, we should move away from that a little bit.”

I'm going to ask you about a friendship that you did have a public break with, which was your friendship with James Franco after allegations of sexual misconduct were leveled against him. I am curious about how you work through that decision and did that change the way you think about friendship at all? I mean, I'm trying to think how much I want to personally share about this. I understand that. I

the reason I ask is, I think as a culture, we are still grappling with if and how we allow people who've behaved badly back into our lives, back into the culture. And so I was sort of wondering about, you know, what was a very seminal relationship for you? Yeah, like, I honestly think the nuance of it is too personal for me to get into right now. Like, it is a very personal thing. And I think there's like the public facing side of it,

which I've spoken about and and I have the same stance publicly that that I've had. And I think the proof is in the putting more than anything is as I haven't, I have not worked with him in years, you know? But like the personal side of it is just it's it's so nuanced and it involves people that I don't know if I should be dragging into this and and I think it's, you know, I don't know what I would benefit from getting deeply into in this moment. But I'd say

everything I've said, nothing is nothing has changed really since since the last time I've talked about all this and I haven't worked with him in a really long time and I have no plans to do you talk to him? I haven't talked him a long time now. So I want to ask you about your on-screen relationships with women because I love platonic where you have a deep friendship with Rose Burn, who's also like a regular collaborator with you. Yeah, she's great. So how have you sort of

thought about the female male dynamic on-screen? Because platonic literally is again about friendship.

the romantic dynamic interesting that this is a central storyline here. Yeah, I mean, I think it

“can again, I think can be like reductive. Like I think like for so long that was the only”

dynamic there was between a man and woman on-screen. Essentially it was was a romantic one and part of it is just like what's what is new that hasn't been explored but is true to all of our lives or of any of our lives anyway and and and it's funny like I think so much over thinking it in some ways goes into like what makes a funny female character in relation to a funny male character you know and do they have to be smart? Do they have to be dumb? Is it dumb? Is it bad

if they're dumb? Is it sexist if they're dumb? Or is it sexist if they're smart? Like I've seen, I've seen both things argued. I've seen you know it's like oh you don't want to give her the dumb care but like that's often the funnier characters the dumb character you know what I mean and the worst choice is a character makes often the more comedic we they can perform as an actor you know but they're dumb you know and so like I mean Marilyn Monroe is one of the great comedic actors

“exactly so I think like to me what I've found with to be the healthiest conversations is just like”

what creates the most comedic potential if that is what you're trying to do you know and to not try to I think as soon as you start to think too globally in lose sight of like the thing you're making is when you get lost in the weeds a little bit and what does that mean? If you start to feel like well like what we are saying with this is like men are like this and women are like this like that to me is so much harder to wrap my head around and like what I'm saying is this guy is like this

and this woman is like this like and that's funnier to get this head and what we are doing is making it work for this and and as long as it works it's good you know and I mean and as long as it is it's funny you you're not thinking is he dumb or is he smarter is she dumb or he you're just thinking it works and and all of a sudden all the stigmas and the and the history and the conversation around it kind of falls by the wayside because you're just watching a thing that works you know and

“I mean and so that's what I've seen work is like with platonic it just is you know roses character is like”

doing incredibly stupid things all the time making incredibly poor choices being irresponsible putting people in danger putting people at risk doing things that again I guess you could like philosophically argue like is it is it great to portray anyone like that is it good are we what are we saying about women when we do this what are we saying about men when we do this but I think what they do so well on that show is like they're not trying to do that they're like what makes

this character allow rose burn to give the funniest performance she could possibly give and be as funny in these scenes as she could possibly be and I think like I find like these kind of heavier conversations about theme and society and culture like hopefully that's just within you and and we'll come out through your work because it's organic to your perspective you know do you think Hollywood has become more risk averse yes okay yeah 100% yes period and just like

and we've just seen it like you know super about the good example like when we made that movie they bought our script they hired a director they said it would have a 20 million dollar budget and it would start shooting in August or an April of that year and it would come out in like August of the following year that's it and then we cast the movie we found a director for the movie

we made it according to their schedule and we released it on the date they chose that would never

happen today in a hundred million years no studio which is bias script give it a release date cast it and then make it now everything has to be in place before they will decide whether or not they're making it who's the director who are the actors are they famous enough do they have big enough names if not then we got to change we got to get different ones or else we won't make it and I know we wanted to start shooting in April and release it next summer but if we don't have

the right actors we're not going to do that because we think these actors will get us more money than these actors even though they might not be the funniest actors for the role they might be more commercial for the role not to say you won't ultimately get to the funniest people for the

role but you'll have to go through an incredible process to do it in a way that is all due to risk

funniest people in it that will make the best version of the movie and the best version of this movie is what will make us the most money that is not said anymore really in in Hollywood as I was preparing for this interview I was looking at your list of credits and you know it's just astonishing when you sort of sit with it producing the hit superhero series the boys acting in the invite voicing kung fu panda platonic studio I mean there's just like a lot there and I was recently watching

jet appetis excellent documentary on Mel Brooks and thinking that your our generation's Mel Brooks I mean you've already made comedies that have sort of defined a generation you're only 44

“I mean is he someone that you've modeled your career on um honestly what I love Mel”

but I I more modeled my career off of like Harold Ramous and you know and I would look at like you know not on a personal level but I was a big my parents loved Woody Allen movie he's when I was a kid you know and I was sort of inundated with like Hannah and her sisters and things like that and and Mel Brooks I mean I like it's funny like space balls like I watch

space balls before Star Wars probably a hundred million times but what's funny is I never had

like too close of a plan or too specific of a goal or I never looked at anyone's career really and was like I want that career I I I I think when I was in my early 20s I sort of surpassed any expectation I could have had for myself in many ways and and and after that I sort of saw that like the greatest gift I could give to myself was to like do whatever creatively excited me in whatever moment I was in and not working towards something like I'll only be happy if I

do this and if it once I do this I'll know I've made it you know like I I felt like I made it

“when I was 23 years old and so after that I was like I I think I should just do what seems”

exciting to me and and it is funny because sometimes I will do an interview and look back and I'm I'm doing a lot of a lot of stuff and it's a weird array of stuff and but I look at and it's a stuff it's stuff that truly reflects my taste into I am and my sensibilities mean I haven't

grew up reading comic books we were so that's one of the first things we bonded on and so

getting to adapt comic cards and it's one of my favorite comic writers all time so getting to make preacher and the boys and things like that especially like you know I remember like David Fincher was attached to make preacher and then it fell apart and we ended up making it in the boys like every big director and Hollywood was attached to adapt the boys at one point or another and we just sort of like hung out in the background for a decade until everyone else fell

through and we became the most viable option to turn it down it wasn't like turned down the it didn't work out we just didn't work out they kept making versions it's it is tricky and we

“changed it quite a bit from the source material I think to make it into something that was far more”

digestible as as as visual entertainment than than than it would have been otherwise you know but I think like the greatest gift I have in my career is that I truly we can kind of do anything and we can make dramatic things and comedic things and animated things and live action things and things like Ninja Turtles honestly like has been one of my favorite things we've made in years and like I love that movie and I think it's so good and so reflective of my taste and my sensibility

and what I loved when I was a kid but also infused with like the highest level of writing and storytelling and plot construction that I could fathomably have helped conceive of in that time in my life and I look at how it's constructed from like a structure and story standpoint and I'm like legitimately very proud of it and I think like oh that is like as well structured of film as you can make in many ways and my hope is that our work just clearly has had the highest

level of thought and care and consideration put into it no matter what it is and like as risk of

versus Hollywood is I'm always trying to instill in the people that we work with like if we can

take a swing let's take it if no one's looking let's do something crazy if no one's if we're in this moment we're no one's paying attention like let's let's make Ninja Turtles look insane like let's let's really push it and and to me I also hope our work has that sort of like intrepid spirit like a spirit of that we are going for it and that we are not playing it safe but we are swinging for the fences you know Seth Rogen thank you so much we'll speak again thank you after the break

is probably more helpful to you ultimately than some like artificial intelligence program

I'm opening up crossplay I've been playing against Dan my colleague at the New York Times I'm going to play stoop STUPE across the trip forward multiplier square cats played another move and she did have an S she played stoop for 36 points I've got a Z which is 10 points I can put my X over there I can make box I have two A's in synthies I'm guessing Tenga is not a word let's see Tenga is a word oh don't know what Tenga means so I'm going to

press down on the word and oh definition popped up former monetary unit up to Jika Stan something every time I play this game even though I'm about 50 points ahead one thing I've learned

in crossplays at the game is never over I just got a notification in Dan played his last turn let's

see who won it's so close but I did win New York Times game subscribers get full access to crossplay our first two player word game subscribe now for a special offer on all of our games Seth Rogan so glad to talk to you again we're back we're back all right in our first conversation we talked about opportunities for young people coming up in Hollywood and how the industry's changed and possibly you know someone like you wouldn't have the same sort of opportunities

to make movies today and then we just saw two youtubers dominate the box office one of them came Parsons the director of back rooms is 20 he was 16 when he made the YouTube video the movie is based on and then Cory Barker the director of obsession is 26 these have just been like

“huge successes I mean what do you make of that I mean honestly it totally fits in line with advice”

that I have been giving people for years when they come up to me which is they say I want to make it in movies I want to do something and I tell them like make stuff and make stuff that that is really good and I'm like trust me people like me are like begging the praying that they see something impressive I met with came when I think he was 16 or 17 years old because I watched his YouTube videos and I remember the people at my company being like why are we meeting with 16

year old and I was like trust me this kid is very talented you know and so ever since our phones had cameras on them basically I've been that has become my default advice to people and now with blender and visual effects and things like that people like on literally on a laptop you can make a thing that that when I was growing up would cost you tens of millions of dollars you know it is really open the door for people who are skilled and dedicated to really show it there

“capable of you know and and I think that that's a great thing Hollywood always seems to be in the”

middle of like an angsty crisis variety called what just happened with these two YouTubers a quote tectonic shift in Hollywood that sent shock waves through the industry I do wonder first of all what you make of that I mean do you think that's overstating what just happened because I guess what I think is so a learning to executives is that YouTubers as you just mentioned have cheap technology that they can use to get millions of eyeballs they can workshop an idea and then have a

built-in audience so I guess it takes the guess work out of selling ticket so I'm just wondering how you see it since you already were tracking him for so long yeah I mean I don't I don't know if like online engagement necessarily translates into like ticket sales definitely you know what I mean

“but I think to your first part of the question like I think it's overstating that it's a tectotic”

shift if your assumption is that these shifts don't happen constantly in Hollywood you know like

and I think that's something me and Evan talk about a lot is it's from network like I always think

that line of network where Robert Duval is like it's a volatile industry and the investors are like well we shouldn't be why are we financially invested in a in a volatile industry and but I think by definition it is a volatile industry you know and it changes and it's almost the one defining feature of Hollywood from my experience in it is that there is every few years a tectonic shift and

to sort of keep my head down and and we're aware of them again and and we'll kind of ride the

waves of them if it fits in with our own creative ambitions you know and I'm more than happy to like say in a pitch however I'm doing maybe fits into the trend of what I hope the executive on pitching to or assume the executive on pitching to is looking for but to me yeah like I it's not that shocking to me that something like this happened there's like a whole generation of people who have access to essentially professional filmmaking equipment for a price that again when I was young

was like completely unattainable and they're and they're making their own stuff and studios are making tons of money off of it which again is not that different than like when lonely island

in those guys made YouTube videos and people hired them or when the broad city girls made

their show on YouTube and people hired them or when you know Nathan Field they're all the

“a lot of people like in comedy it's a little more commonplace I think but I think now with technology”

it's allowing people who really thrive in different genres genres that traditionally maybe require more resources to really kind of show what they can do and again in studios will be more than happy to capitalize off of that whenever they see an opportunity to let me ask you just as an aside what makes a good pitch um I think a good pitch is short generally speaking honestly like I and I think a pitch and I'm not I know I'm not someone who I assume is great at pitching honestly

you know and I like pitch people pitch you I'm sure so I'm just curious if the idea is genuinely good

the pitch is kind of easy and I'm actually get kind of suspicious of people who are like good pitchers to be like the quintessential pitch I'm used to hear is from like a nervous comedy writer who has terrible people skills who has no ability to like prevent themselves in a way that is nearly representative of what they're capable of you know what I mean and so when someone comes into

“slick and and flashy I get a little suspicious honestly but I'm just looking for the idea I know”

myself I've had so many ideas that are so hard to pitch I remember trying to pitch people pineapple express and them just looking at us like we were insane and trying to pitch this is the end and people looking at us like we were crazy and like with the studio when we pitched that our only thought was to like way over deliver what makes it easy for these people who's entire job is like risk mitigation to say yes to me and so they could see like oh it has a cast and I don't have to

imagine like who's this character like it's this person who's this character it's this person like and I think it showed like we really like we're geared towards making the show and not just towards like writing the show for money which is another thing a lot of people do you know one of the other sort of big disruptors and Hollywood is of course AI and you've been you know vocally against AI's use in writing and in animation do you feel like you're standing against the tide and why are

you standing against the tide because again I guess it's like a you know I think the executive viewed as like a cost savings right because I think they see it as a way to execute in a way that doesn't require as many resources. Yeah and I think like I guess I look to the different sectors of the industry like I know a lot of people who work in visual effects who think who are visual effects artists truly who think AI can help them do their work better but they work in a field where technology

is something they are having to navigate in order to do their job to what they view is the best of their abilities. I don't think writing has that problem you know what I mean I don't think if you're having a hard time writing that technology is the thing that is in your way. I think it is either your your dedication or your skills or your abilities or just the amount of time

“you spent doing it and and and the amount you have to develop your own abilities to match what it is”

you're you're hoping you're you're putting out in the world you know and and I'm only speaking for my own personal interest in it you know what I mean like I know other writers who who do use you know chat GPT to have conversations I guess about their ideas it's just not a thing that has ever interested me and and it's that it's not a thing that I ever was even remotely tempted to engage with because I have a writing process that I really enjoy you know what I mean but I do understand how you

to talk to about it no one in your life cares that you're doing this I definitely understand the temptation to to use a like artificial intelligence as some sort of sounding word because working

“alone is very hard and and scary you know but I think I would advise people to seek out some”

sort of creative community and even like the worst person you know who has any interest in writing

is probably more helpful to you ultimately than some like artificial intelligence program

to talk about your writing with you're not going to have an Evan A. I bought to be exactly alright hard pivot as I mentioned you were on Howard Stern where you told a lot of stories about drugs yeah and you said the only time that you were drug-free was on a trip to Singapore when you mean go on penalty of death and I really was curious because you didn't describe the experience of what it was like not to be high um the first time since you were a kid

it was fine it's not it is not that weird like I yeah I it was fine and I go straight like

it's not like I in my day-to-day life I am not in a position where I can just smoke weed literally

all day every day at all times like I you know last week we were filming in some skyscraper down town I couldn't smoke weed in there and so I went I went to all day without smoking weed and it's pretty you know it's not like I'm freaking out or anything it's just you know I'm a little happier if I can smoke weed all day and that's all yeah I mean you've helped normalize cannabis use

“when I think about pineapple expressed it today it's been a complete sea change yes and I think”

it's a real testament to the cultural impact of your work was that an explicit aim or just sort of unfortunate by product um I'd say it was a I'd say it was sort of a specific aim but a very like personal one like I don't think our goal was like if this works we will change cultures view on weed I think it was more like we don't like how we are stigmatized as people who smoke weed and I think the ultimate way to show that people who smoke lot of weed are not

who you think they are is to really proficiently make an entire movie about people who smoke weed implicitly by people who smoke weed that is for people who smoke weed but is actually like has the thought and caring consideration and and technical kind of acumen put into it that like any real

“Hollywood movie has and I think to us that's kind of what had never been done before the Friday”

is probably the closest one you know and I love that movie but but even that was sort of like a very I think they move the even that movie for like almost no money you know it was a very small movie and and I think that movie kind of had an outsized impact but we yeah we were really kind of on a personal level trying to be like what if we made like a real like a real weed movie and people saw that like it wasn't this like outcast thing for idiot it was the thing that

could be as mainstream as anything you know and we were shocked when it was so embraced honestly in that today when I go to the weeks or the fact that there's like pineapple Express weed that exists is like so funny I think and and like a real direct kind of descendant of of the movie and I think the fact that yeah that it was a weed movie that and even when we were promoting that movie like it was not easy like you know people I remember going on TRL which dates this story

and like really literally right before I went on they were like oh and you can't talk about weed at all and I'm like I'm here to promote a movie like the movie title is is is we like what am I going to talk about and they were like I don't know figured out but you can't literally can't mention weed on on the show how do you promote that movie with that mentioning weed well but I think I did as I did talk about it and then they like aired it once and then it's shrubbed it from TRL existence yeah it was tough

okay before I say goodbye you're filming the studio today anything that you can say about the new season anything at all I don't know I can say it's it's far more ambitious than the

first season and I honestly like there's been many times I've been on set the season and I've been

I've been truly amazed at what in a way that has offered me a lot of gratification and pride like

talk into doing the show and and the people I've gotten to work with and and I've watched the

“episodes and I really feel as though I'm pushing myself more and more I'm excited and nervous for people to”

see it but as we make it it feels like we have tried to up our game and and there are moments

right really feel like we are doing something but I'm very proud of Seth Rogen thank you so much

thank you so much that's Seth Rogen the invite is in theaters June 26

“to watch this interview and many others you can subscribe to our YouTube channel at youtube.com/atsymbol”

the interview podcast this conversation was produced by Seth Kelly it was edited by John Wu

mixing by Sophia Landman original music by Marion Lazzano photography by Devon Yalkin the rest of the team is pre-amac you white orm howl a new door of jobil manios Alejandro sobagoico

“Kathleen O'Brien and book mentors our executive producer is Alison Benedict”

next week David talks with the prolific actor writer and producer Danny McBride about what exactly is over the line it is funny writing comedy and then writing horror where people can get offended from jokes obviously I mean it happens all the time but for some reason with horror there's none of that you're just like we're just coming up with cool ways to kill people and nobody's upset about it it's you're just allowed to I'm Lugarsia Navarro and this is the

interview from the New York Times this week on the wire cutter show we're gonna have a new noise canceling your butt pick it has a fantastic noise canceling microphone like magical we're taking your questions about headphones ear buds over ear Bluetooth bone conduction Lauren dragon long time headphones writer for wire cutter answers it all with her expert recommendations find it wherever you like to listen