Hey y'all, it's Kyra Blackwell from Wirecutter.
New York Times and I test mattresses. Today I am testing 7 mattresses. This mattress is very
“supportive. It's just a very easy to shift position. You've considered nearly 4 dozen foam”
in their spraying and hybrid mattresses. We're looking out for an edge support motion isolation and firmness levels. At Wirecutter, we do the work so you don't have to. For independent product reviews and recommendations for the real world come visit us at nytimes.com/ Wirecutter. Carlos is from Venezuela. He spent his childhood in the capital, Caracas. But when he started to see pictures and videos of the damage, he realized he couldn't even recognize parts of his home
town. So he asked people how it all started. I was actually at my best friend's house and I was going back to my house. Natasha Villa was driving when the ground started to move.
“Nice, started feeling my car just sliding from side to side. I thought that it was”
the feeling of when you're driving on top of water. So you feel like the car is just sliding. You could see people screaming and running out of the street. You could see the light post and the electrical post falling down in the street and the people screaming while the electricity sparkles were just going everywhere. She had no idea how extensive the damage was. I didn't have signal in my phone at all because the network had fallen completely.
With power outages all over the country and phone lines collapsed, there was no way to communicate with my friends. Much of Venezuela didn't know either. We had no idea what was happening. So I waited for a friend who had a car and we drove around the city trying to find a signal. Carlos Helambi is a comedian. He was supposed to perform at a stand-up show that night.
So yeah, once we found the signal, it will be. When he finally got access to the internet,
“he couldn't believe what was coming up on his phone. What was the first thing that you saw?”
The first thing I saw was some buildings collapse and we have some friends who live next to the first building that fell off in Caracas. Like, hey, our friend is alive but probably a lot of people in the building next to him are not. And then he saw more. Then as we checked the news, we saw, okay, so that was not the only building that fell. He saw building after building collapsed in Caracas, but nothing prepared him for what had happened in La Guida,
a state on the country's northern coast. And then we saw La Guida Bios and it was too much. As more and more images trickled out, a horrific picture of ruin began to emerge. Like, why does normally a popular vacation spot? But now, entire blocks had turned to rubble. Thousands and thousands of people were looking for their loved ones.
That first thing I thought was the city's lost.
Just today, I went over to the Domino Luciani Hospital where I saw with my own eyes, the level of devastation. I saw trucks, pickup trucks carrying patients directly from La Guida. There was a four-year-old girl that had her pelvis exposed. That was arriving at the same time. And I was there. There's no way to describe it. Today, we look at how Venezuelans united after the earthquakes.
And talk to our colleague, Anitoli Kermenayev, from La Guida, about how the aftermath of the tragedy has forced the Trump administration to shift its plans in Venezuela. It's Thursday, July 2nd. So, Anitoli, you got to Venezuela on Sunday, and you've been spending a lot of time in the
Part of the country most affected by these earthquakes, which is La Guida.
seen. So, La Guida is a gateway to Venezuela. It's this town outside of capital Caracas,
“and I have driven there hundreds of times. This is Anitoli. This is Monday afternoon,”
and I'm sitting in the back of a passenger car. Earlier this week, I met this drive again, and it was a very different drive as time. Wow, the line. There was a lot of traffic. There was a lot of people going down into the city. I mean, it's a pickup truck loaded up, but mattresses, motorbikes and cars, trucks, carrying supplies, carrying water. Just pass the motorbike drive, but we're just a small bag full of groceries. It was quite an unusual size.
But apart from that, everything around you looked very much the same, the same as always.
We answer La Guida, and it wasn't until you'd get into the city itself, it just started to see widespread destruction. Wow, this is a first-high-rise, but it's badly damaged vets that I've seen.
“Vlogs just entirely leveled. While the walls blown out, God broken lifts, people's possessions,”
just hanging out. And it's sort of seeming apparent randomness of it, right? At one block could be completely unscathed, even the glass and the paint is still there, and then the next, you know, few meters down the road, is just completely leveled buildings. Standing at top of our collapse, building. And when you approached a distra building, the first thing that hits you is the smell, the smell of rot, the putrophication. It was just very clear,
the smell of decayed flesh. Well, thousands of people around me have taken through in various parts, hoping to find someone. You know, I have been a foreign correspondent for many years and I've covered
a lot of unrest, I've been around death, but I have never covered a natural disaster of this scale,
and I have never really thought about how death smells. And this was very much it, like this was very clear to me, but this is what's death smells like. Sitting on the side of a collapsed large residential building. There were people digging through pretty much every collapsed building. The few relatives standing on the side of a road to push people to resign. The of course happened a few days before I arrived, so the chances of finding someone alive
have faded a lot by the time I was around. It's a long excavator, digging for the rubble, that feels a bit calcified, like taking out a glass of sand in the beach. What do we know about the numbers and a totally of the dead and of the missing? Where does that stand right now? So the official death toll is around 2,000 people by now, and yesterday the government suggested that it could rise to about 10,000. Wow. There are no reliable estimates of missing,
but some, you know, the crowd sourcing platforms put the number at about 50,000. We should not
“say that's too seriously, because there's a lot of caveats here, you know, but I think it is not a”
likely that the number of deaths will end up being in five digits. Okay, so really heavy, just a horrific scene. What is your understanding of how this happened, of what led to the scale of
destruction and of death? So first of all, Natalie, these were very powerful earthquakes. I'm
actively powerful, but would of course destruction in many places around the world, if not most, because with twin of quakes, and very unusual set of circumstances, and they also occurred during a public holiday. This was like an unusually very busy time for the area that ended up suffering by most. So widespread destruction and death was perhaps unavoidable, but their grown questions being asked whether decisions made by the government have contributed to the destruction.
Many of the destroyed buildings or many buildings that appear to have caused the most death have been social housing, which has been very rapidly built in the last 15, 20 years to meet political objectives, very basically built around elections, time, to garden a roads, and there's growing indications that corners were caught in building those buildings. This was under Nicholas Maduro, the previous president of Venezuela. This was not the Nicholas Maduro, but this was
primarily under his predecessor Hugo Chavez, who won numerous elections by gaining the support of
Venezuela's poor, the Venezuela's majority, and his flagship project was some...
the grand housing project, which involves the constructions of thousands of buildings, thousands of
social housing blocks around the country, which will then give an out to Venezuela's poor. And many obvious buildings have collapsed. Okay, so there are questions over whether that strategy led by Chavez continued under Maduro may have created the conditions for this level of destruction. Yeah, I mean, Venezuela has a history of heavy seismic activity. This is an earthquake
“prone zone. This is not a secret, and statistical models have predicted a strong earthquake here”
for some years. This is a country that should have been prepared, and to be fair,
maybe buildings have withstood the earthquake very well, inside neighborhoods have sort of
came out of this pretty much unscathed. So there are construction engineering reasons coming from decisions taken by Hugo Chavez and Nicholas Maduro, but there are also decisions taken by the country's current leader, Delce Rodriguez, that have contributed to the in effect of response. Like what? What do you mean by that? So before Delce Rodriguez became the leader of a government, she has been a long-term official of a regime. She has really risen in the ranks
of the governments and the Nicholas Maduro who made her his economic troubleshooter, given her
“responsibility for the country's oil industry with the job of helping him stay in power.”
And she has orchestrated this great shift from the socialist principles that have
powered the ruling movement since his foundation towards this laser fair hands-off economic approach. More of an open market. More of an open market, and this is what it looks like in practice. And Hugo Chavez, the state, had lavish citizens with goods and services in return of a political loyalty. There was free food, free housing, subsidized travel, and all sorts of social benefits for any aspect to be life you can imagine for education, for your house pets,
for the elderly, for universities, students, et cetera, et cetera. And this was a time of economic cleansing the country, all prices were high, all experts were earning the country,
“billions and billions of dollars, and Hugo Chavez could afford that. Then the oil prices”
collapsed in 2014. American sanctions start strangling the country's economy, and this becomes no longer sustainable. And Delce, as Nicholas Maduro's economic chief, makes a decision to retreat the state from people's lives. So the Venezuelan states gradually stops providing basic services that they have for many decades. The people are left on their own to fend for themselves, you know, in Russia we have a saying the survival of a drowning is the business of a drowning,
and this is what Delce institutes in. So you guys have the best saying. And in return, the government gave them some premium space to do that. So it stopped harassing businesses, by large it stopped the expropriations, it loosened, currency control, it just made it easy for people to go about their daily lives. It's unleashed in a way market forces, sort of supply and demand to try to fill in the gaps left by the retreating states. And it did not create this massive
bananzi, it did not create a Dubai out of Caracas, but it did make people's lives significantly easier, you know. But there was a cost about, there was a hidden cost because the retreat of a state meant that the state no longer was in charge of providing basic services like telecommunications, or even electricity, in some cases, the state shrank for state hollowed out. It was everyone was for themselves. And that was fine at its times of relative stability because people's
into partnership, private initiatives could help people get by. But then a natural disaster strikes and it requires a mass coordinated state response. The shortcomings of her policies became very much apparent. You're saying that under Chavez and then Maduro, obviously it was by no means perfect, but all of the resources were under the control of the government. And so if the government needed to move quickly to respond to something like a disaster, you'd imagine it could. And then
the move under Delsea to a more open market system, it kind of splits these state functions up
They retreat from providing the services that you need when something like th...
That's exactly what happened. And that was also second reason. Maduro, especially in his last
“years in power, as he became increasingly unpopular, he became increasingly paranoid. He was”
word about coups, he was worded by rebellions, anything that comes up from power. And he became very distrustful of his own government, people who could organize and and push him out from power. So he started, atomizing being a so-and-state. And by this, I mean, he splits it into little five doms controlled by different officials, you know, who enrich themselves. And none of them are able to communicate with each other or organize with each other. And this makes it very
difficult to organize a coup. But it also in circumstances like now makes it very difficult for all these different institutions with police, with the military, the civil protection services, the health care system, etc., to get together to coordinate and do something together. This is
“precisely what is needed during an earthquake. And instead, we just have OV's small groups of”
people running around aimlessly because there's nothing that ties them together.
Okay, so basically both of these things, the economic shift and the political paranoia of Maduro
lead to a very disorganized state. And then we get this other massive shift, as we all know, when the United States goes in under Trump and extracts Maduro earlier this year, talk about that and how it affected what we're seeing now. This made things even more complicated because now it's not delsy who ultimately made decisions. I mean, it was Washington, there's this Trump administration. So it adds another layer of decision-making,
another layer of bureaucracy and complicates with change of commands. And this is not what she wants during the disaster response. Just explain what you mean when you say that it's the
Trump administration making decisions. So Natalie, the strange thing about this is it's basically
exactly what it sounds like, you know, this is one of his rare things this is not a metaphor. The US has direct control over Venezuela's public revenues. The US has massive influence over Venezuela's political systems over its economic decisions. So it is literally Mark Rubio, US Secretary of States, and his team that make everyday decisions how Venezuela is around and what happens in Venezuela, what's stances it takes. That is just so wild, that set up, totally unimaginable,
even, you know, six months ago. Yeah, Natalie was definitely something I could not have imagined, you know, yes, there was in Laguira. And for part of the day, it was in the airport, in the country's airport, which has been damaged, there's no commercial traffic, but there's a lot of aid supplies coming in, and this is also where US military set up its base. So it was this really bizarre scene that I witnessed of a senior Venezuela and secured your official, a man called
Granca Arceaga, who has been US nemesis, you know, he's a man accused of gross human rights violation torture, killing of political opponents, and he has been sold by US governments for many years. And here he was, standing and commonly looking on US military helicopters, they can on and off from an airport, a few hundred yards in front of him. And it was, it was just so surreal to see US military power, which has been, you know, nemesis of Venezuela and government for
decades, for decades, just having complete free reign on Venezuela and their field in front of me. Okay, you're getting at this right now, but how does this new government structure in Venezuela and the partnership with the US affect the response to these quakes? So then the quakes hits the government is completely flat for it. It is unclear what's happening and for the first 24 hours,
“which have a crucial hours, the hours where you most likely had to find survivors, there's no”
organized response, a very little of organized response. We've seen very little heavy machinery on the streets, we've seen very little, you know, organized groups of civil servants, you know, very sporadic statements from a government and, you know, people feel completely abandoned, people feel on their own and they have no choice but to take matters into their own hands.
We'll be right back.
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The first 24 hours at zero the earthquake that we started sending food directly to LaWayda,
there were practically no rescue missions. There were no military on the street, there were no police officers, there was no help. There were so many places where the people were screaming from inside of the rubble, but there was absolutely nothing that they could do because there was no machinery. I know of a friend that she spent those 48 hours looking at the rubble where her father was buried and there was no one there to help.
Everyone that our producer Carlos talked to, they couldn't sit still as all this was happening. I went with a store on board. So they started either sending food or supplies down the stretch of highway to LaWayda or going there themselves to help in any way they could. Every day we wake up and went down to give it to the people that were working on this all being. Often they were the first people that survivors had seen. I'm curious if there
has been a moment where you've noticed that maybe you are the first person that someone there has seen come for help. Many times some of the families have suffered. So many people who have helped many days without talking to their families. So many people have lost everything. They were just happy to be alive to save maybe one of their kids. What have they told you when they see you?
It's amazing you may be talking with someone for less than five minutes and when you're
going to save it by just a good time with a hawk like it's just feels so grateful. A lot of people from abroad started messaging me asking me to reach their families like the mom of one of our friends in Argentina was missing. He started asking hey if you know any info about my mom please let us know. Carlos the comedian got multiple calls from people begging him to help locate their loved ones. Two friends had the same plea. Could he help them find their
mothers who'd gone missing in Nagoya. So we went on two motorcycles. So Carlos and a few friends got on their motorcycles and headed toward the worst of the earthquake. To try to find two
moms. So we tried to reach for the first mom but when we actually reached the building and the building
“was completely collapsed. Do you think that she didn't make it?”
Yeah I would say so. I would say it's the the most probable case. And like the person like she kind of knows it. Like she kind of knows it. That it's a long shot. So yeah. But when we reach this places like the people told us hey nobody's coming here. And we see that there is nobody around like most civilians helping in those places
Are the civilians that live in those places.
So Annatoli in the last few days our colleague daily producer Carlos Prado has been talking to people who are doing just what she said actively jumping in as volunteers with no
experience just mounting their own pretty incredible rescue efforts. Just talk to me high level
“about that civilian effort. What is the scale and scope of it?”
Natalie it's nothing short of remarkable and simply overwhelming. I would not call it a silver lining given the scale of a human tragedy but to see every single being saw new needs contributing something jumping in has literally brought like tears to my eyes you know. It's the universality of this effort. The rich vapor just all cooking food, delivering supplies, donating, you know, opening up our houses,
providing transport, digging through the rabble, just being remarkable. You know not really like we have been for correspondence for many years. We have covered a lot of authoritarian governments and the rule book of all these order crowds is to add to my society to divide the society to turn it into this isolated pockets that are unable to stand together, unable to do any collective action including changing the government. This is how put in
works, this is how Maduro works and this is a government that has been in power from the moment 20 years and it has systematically undermines people ability to make their voice counts and the way people here have responded the way they have come together to do something
meaningful has been just absolutely overwhelming. You're saying basically that strategy didn't
work because here people are gathering in this way. The strategy didn't work and you know obviously it's testament to the will of any sort of people but at the end of the day these are just regular people facing a massive catastrophe and they are putting bandits at a massive problem that will not be solved devout organized state involvement. And once that organized state
“involvement comes I assume it does start to materialize at some point. What did it look like?”
Well it is beginning to materialize Natalie, you know for financial aid is flowing and supplies are flowing in as grown number of international volunteers service man who'll help it out as there's talk of multilateral organizations providing loans providing financing. And by this stage Natalie we have no longer really talking about search and rescue by large. We're talking longer term reconstruction. And what about the partnership this now very close collaboration with
United States? Did that help? It did. It absolutely did. I think it would be fair to say that for all the questions that exists about U.S. been swollen relationship today, questions that have to do with morality, national sovereignty, international law. It is very clear but for about U.S. involvement, the situation on the ground would have been even worse. It has flown in a lot of
“supplies, it's logistical muscles, the use of transport, helicopters, etc. has been very important.”
Today we're already 900 American soldiers on the ground, Venezuela and helping the recovery efforts.
The U.S. has already committed $300 million of aid to Venezuela. U.S. is pushing to reintegrate
Venezuela into international organizations that can provide long term lending. So there's absolutely questions about whether U.S. could do more, but in absolute terms, its response has been significant. And that's significant. Response, I'd imagine, has the Trump administration deepening its connection to the current government, right? Absolutely. My reporting shows that after view of Quake, the U.S. is communicated to Delta Rodriguez Vadvaya all end that they have made
a bet on her, they have made a bet on the salines and they are going to lean into it. U.S. officials have lavished praise on Delta's and her response repeatedly in public statements, just yesterday the U.S. government said in the statement that Venezuela has agreed to all of their requests that they had after view of Quake, which is very interesting because it implies that the decisions are made by the U.S. government, and it's going to slow us, we just approve the decisions that are wherever
it's been taken. One of the perhaps unexpected consequences of his earthquake is this alliance has become a lot deeper in the last few days. And what are the implications of that? This matters
Because the U.
they have labelled it as sponsors of what they call narcoterrorism, a government that has stolen
“elections, and until the earthquake, the U.S. plan has articulated repeatedly by”
Secretary of State, Mike Rubio, involved free stages. First, the recovery of an instrument economy,
stabilization of its political system, and transition, which means political transitions, basically enabling free elections. And after view of Quake, Rubio himself admits it that the catastrophe complicates this plan, makes it more difficult. This is something that we didn't plan for. This is something that we could not have planned for. And then practical terms, but concentrations makes it harder to imagine free elections in any foreseeable future.
It makes it difficult to imagine being a sort of a really recovered and very democracy and recovering their political voice. Okay, so I have to ask what is the Venezuelan opposition saying about this post-Earthquake phase where maybe elections are being kicked even further down
“the road? So the earthquakes have put the forces opposed to the government of Dacia Rodriguez”
in a very difficult position when a lose-lose situation, because on the one hand, if I stand
aside, they are basically watching the U.S. deepening their alliance with their sworn enemies
and pushing the can of elections down the road. At the same time, if they use the earthquake as an opportunity to reinsert themselves in civil and political lives, they face accusations of opportunism, politicizations of disaster and of basically staging political stunts. And this dilemma is particularly acute for the leader of a Venezuelan opposition. Marie Kurina Machara, a noble peace price, laureate. She remains the most popular politicians in the country. She is a person who would
undoubtedly win elections if they were held tomorrow. But she's an exile. She left Venezuela last year to receive that price and she has been unable to come back since. So she is now watching from outside the country as the U.S. makes their bad with Dacia Rodriguez. And frankly, as a Venezuelan person, she is watching this tremendous suffering of her citizens and naturally, she wants to be involved. She wants to help. And she has been trying to come back. She does not have a valid
passport. We've been selling passport has expired. So she needs U.S. help to get into the country. And she has been making an increasingly forceful public please to aid her return. She's saying to the U.S. help me get back in there. I want to help. That's exactly what she's been saying. And her police to the U.S. have massively bad fired. Because they U.S. administrations, they see her as a destruction. They have moved from privately
expressing annoyance or her police to now publicly saying that her campaign to return to the country is a political stunt. Because they say we remain focused on reconstruction, we remain focused on AIDS. And the U.S. government for now has bored into the arguments of being so in government that allowing the opposition back into the country would just stoke social tensions, could create violence, could create unrest. This is not something that U.S. government wants to see in
Venezuela right now. So the long and short of it is that this tragedy obviously has very high political stakes on all sides. The opposition wants to use this as an opportunity to assert itself for Delcy Rodriguez. This is a chance to solidify its ties with the U.S. even more and to presumably try to show that she's a competent leader in the worst of times. But also for the United
“States, this feels like an important moment. I mean, President Trump has touted what he's done in”
Venezuela as this huge win. He's based a lot of his foreign policy on what he sees as his success there. And here is this event that may be putting that idea to the test.
Winston Churchill once said, "Never let a good crisis go to waste." And there's so much
stake for everyone involved. For Delcy Rodriguez, either of his crisis ends up tumbling her government or she ends up establishing her legitimacy, ends up establishing herself as the powerful rule of Venezuela. For the opposition, either they reinsert themselves into Venezuela, political life, and use with this consent with government response to take power overpaid into obscurity in exile. And for the Trump administration, this is a crucial test of fan narrative
that the Vinson operation has been an unfettered success. That this has been the biggest foreign policy achievements of Trump's second term. He has repeatedly said that Venezuela
Has now become a very happy country, but Venezuela is a dancing on a street.
And the reality is that today, Venezuela is not dancing on a street. Many of them are living on the
streets. The images that are coming out of a country clash massively with the way that he has painted this relationship. He now has to take action to create what he has been talking about. He now has to take ownership in a way for the situation in Venezuela. And what will happen in Venezuela in the next few months and years, so a great extent will depend on the decisions that he will make in the coming weeks? What about for Venezuela's? I have to think that the stakes
for them are much more urgent, life or death. Like the question is whether they can feel safe
living in this country under the system given the response to this tragedy. The strategy has unleashed a great amount of pain and suffering, but it has also made Venezuela's rediscovered web voice and given them bravery to speak out. In La Guaira, you see residents coming together to express their anger at government officials, to chase them out, to boo them. There's a sense of confidence and at the same time a sense of anger and rage. And it's anger at being abandoned
by the government at this moment of great needs and at the corruption and competence that we seen all around them. But it's a trigger for the pain that they have experienced for the last 20
“years living under this government, right? This is sort of like a cathartic moment in a way, right?”
But everything has been bubbling up inside in so many people for so many years, but they have been afraid to say because of repression, because of lack of independent media, this is all now coming out. So perhaps the greatest paradox of what we've seen in Venezuela right now is that while the material conditions for elections and democracy are moving further away, people and power have more and more reasons to just kick the candownal roads, but desire for democracy,
the desire for political voice has written dramatically. People really wanted people in a longer willing to wait for it. And I also think what we see now is Venezuela's rediscovering
“that they are not alone, that they're part of a larger community. And I think, you know,”
this earthquake will have big consequences for the Venezuelan society for the Venezuelan people as a whole because they have seen the power of collective action and what they can do together despite all the challenges.
Why are you totally? Thank you so much. Thanks as always.
So when you think about that mom, the first mom that you couldn't find, where you, where you're afraid that you also might not find this other mom? Oh, of course. But as we reach the place, we went to the bus stop that is closest to the house, where she was seen and we have no signal, we have no way of knowing and like the actual street because
“it goes up like to the slums. So we ask somebody at this bus stop like, hey, where is this street?”
And they tell us, oh, it's right here. Who are you looking for? And we say her name? The man we ask tells us, well, yes, I'm her brother. Oh, wow. Yeah, it was, yeah, too much luck. Like, yes, of course, I'm her brother. Do you want to come visit there? And we were like, yes, please, we have to send a video to our friend. He took us to the home and she was there. Yeah, she was there. Oh, she's okay. She's okay. Yeah, she's okay. She's okay. There was just like no way to
communicate in, but yeah, she's okay. No, I know, but she's okay. I know, but she's okay.
Here's what else you need to know today.
that it had taken a major step toward achieving something that scientists have long dreamed of,
“discovering how chemicals can be turned into life. The researchers blended together dozens of”
ingredients and synthesized simple cells that can feed, grow, and reproduce, passing along their
genetic material to future generations. While those cells may not technically be fully alive,
“they have most of the basic components necessary for life. Scientists hope that synthetic cells”
may someday be engineered to do things that natural cells can't, like making new kinds of medicine
or drawing large amounts of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. The biologists leading the team
“called her creation "spud cell," because of its potato-like appearance. Today's episode was produced”
by Carlos Pritow, Lindsay Garrison, Anna Foley, Chris Benderiv, and Eric Krupke. It was edited by Michael Benoit and Chris Haxel, and contains music by Marian Lizano, Alicia Betitube, Dan Powell, Rowan Nemisto, and Pat McCusker. Our theme music is by Wonderly. This episode was engineered by Chris Wood. That's it for the daily. I'm Natalie Kendrava. See you tomorrow. This week on The Wire Cutter Show, we're covering Deodorant and Andy Perseverant with
expert writer Abby Kuzaltik, who tested dozens of these products in a polyester suit. And I stayed eerily fragrance free. Let's say I just couldn't believe it, and it became almost a sport. Like what more did I do to test this poor Deodorant? Find the Wire Cutter Show wherever you listen to your podcasts.
