The Truth About Career Pivots: Why Adversity Is the Real Catalyst

- Yeah.

“- I mean, being the first woman in 40 years to graduate college.”

- And the first one to go to an HBCU. And that gives me joy. Even if I have to go home in Minnesota, which I'm not 'cause I don't wanna go home. - And you're not gonna go. - No.

- Even if I have to, my mom wanting to go back to school to get her GED because Maya went to college or my mom buying her first home because anything is possible now. 'Cause she's seen in her daughter.

- Maya achievements and the places I've been that people that I have touched and impacted is far greater than something that didn't work out. - It's far greater. Now that we're chatting about it, now I kind of see.

We're walking. - It's a therapy. - Come on, yes it is. Welcome to the couch. (upbeat music)

- What's up everybody? Welcome back. I have a bomb shell of an interview for you today. La Maya Purlina. She is a host of Inside South Florida.

And she has an amazing story. Why don't you one of the first women to go to college and your family as well? - First women like 40 years to graduate. - It's two years to graduate college.

She went to HBCU Prairie View. - Yes I did. - Now they have great colors like LSU, purple and gold. And you got the gold nails and the purple pants. So I'm digging your color combo today, girl.

So this is gonna be a fun conversation. We're gonna hear about some things that she's done in the past. Things that she's doing currently. But there's also a transition

that she's going through right now and career. And we're gonna talk about what's next with her. - Yeah. - Now further ado, welcome to the show. - Thank you.

I did not choose to wear a purple and gold on purpose. It just looked good today.

- Well, hey, purple and gold always looks good, my friend.

That is the colors of royalty. - Yes, thank you so much for having me excited to be here. - I'm so happy to have you. You know, a lot of times, you know, whenever Matt says, "Hey, you got to interview this person?"

Done. - Yeah, Matt Dylan does that a lot to me too. - I mean, he's good at that. - He's good at that, but he knows how to connect energies. - Yeah.

- Right, he knows how to connect good people with other good people that are gonna have good conversation. And I've never had a bad recommendation from Matt Dylan.

“So when he said, like, "You need to interview this shit”

"I go, well, win." Because I have some open, I have some open slots this week. So thank you for driving all the way over. - No problem. I enjoyed it.

- I did it. - You got stuck in traffic. - I got, traffic took me by the neck. - Did it really? - But that's something I learned about Florida.

Like, there's traffic everywhere. That's been the biggest lesson for me and calm down and traffic. - That's a food. - If you don't, your day will be ruined.

- Especially here in Naples. - Really? - Oh, yeah. Pine Ridge, it's pretty old, 41's brutal. It'll take me an hour and a half to get home.

- Really? - And I live 12 miles down the road. - Wow. - Yeah, I mean, as soon as you hit a certain time, if you don't get out of the studio by like one.

- Yeah. - You're crushed. - You're crushed. But I think you'll be good at going back. - Yeah, I think so, it was not a lot of traffic going back.

- But where are you in the East Coast? Are you in Miami or? - No, I'm actually in Davy. So my station was in plantation and so I lived literally the next exit because when I moved, I said,

I haven't been in traffic for such a long time. I was in Illinois Springfield for three years. No traffic, everything's 10 minutes away. - Really? - And I'm like, if I go to Florida,

I'm not driving more than five minutes to work. And so I've did it, and it's great. - And over there, though, like over there, sometimes five minutes could take 40 minutes. - Oh, for sure.

- I mean, it's wild, it's wild. - Welcome to Florida. - Yeah, welcome to Florida. - Good old season, everybody down here right now, cluttered up the road, but like when they're here.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Well, our economy thrives much better, especially here in Southwest Florida, because we're much more seasonal than over there on the East Coast.

There's not a whole lot over here. So, you know, during spring training or in the snowbirds come down like our economy thrives. It is a little irritating because you can't get into restaurants. I'm like, dude, I just want tacos and tequila.

It's not that hard to get. Like, why can I not get in to get a freaking taco? - It's a, you know what, when I first went to Miami, no, when I first got here, I'm like,

oh my god, traffic is amazing.

There's traffic, you know, you're a small girl. We'll fast, small girl, but I live in a small city for such a long time and getting to the big city. He's like, okay, there's people here. - Yeah.

- And then slowly, but surely, I'm on the phone with my brother.

“And I'm like, why are these people out and not in the morning?”

Where are they going? He's like, do you live in a vacation stay? - Yeah. - People are there to have fun. - Just relax.

- But it's funny because like, over there, like, people don't get up super early and they're not moving around. Like, no. My wife, when I met her, she lived in Brickle.

And, you know, we did the same job for a very long time. We were both selling payroll for the same company. And I'd be out in my territory, but like 8 a.m. and she'd be waking up at 8 a.m. and I'm like, dude, are you gonna work today?

Oh, it's Miami. They don't wake up until 11.

- And you know, Miami people always say that

they have like these interesting made of jobs, almost everybody's creating and influencing.

I mean, their spanks, their stand-ups. - Their spanks. - I'm old. - Can't be spanks too. - But stand-ups and sports bras and they're just chilling.

“And I think that's one thing I do like about Miami.”

And even for Latterdale, everybody's happy or it seems happy and just on the go and at their own pace, they're just vibing and living. - That is the key word living. I was supposed to be living their life.

And I think that's so important, right? 'Cause there's so much distraction right now going on in the economy, in the government, politically. Whatever, to be able to truly live your life, I think is such a gift because you can't worry

about all the shit going on. You can't worry about what's gonna happen. I mean, right now, I mean, look, you're going through a career transition. You didn't know that was coming and we'll get to that, right?

But you can't worry about the things that haven't happened yet because now you're living in the future and that's massive anxiety. - Yes. - You know, then the true goal is to be here now, right?

And that is such a hard thing to do. Especially as an adult, I got three kids, wife,

you're always thinking of things in the past

or things in the future and worried, but it just pays huge dividends to be present and to try to focus on what you can control

“in my current moment. - Yeah, yeah, I get that.”

I think for me, I'm an ambitious girl and I've always been ambitious. I mean, I come from a background of women and men who are like hustlers and I play a lot of sports growing up. And I have a lot of brothers.

I have six brothers in one sister. - Oh wow. - And we're all like in sports. - We're one of eight? - Yes. - I can't count any kilos. - And what is it, is it eight?

Six, seven, eight? - Yes, you're right. - I did. - I did it. That's quick, Matt. - And it's between my mom and my dad's kids, but like we were all in sports.

It's very, very hustle, motivated. And growing up, college, young adult life, working,

I've always been, what's next?

What's on the go? How can I climb this ladder? It in my industry, I first started as a news reporter and it always was start small at a small market,

climb your ladder. Always think about how you can get to the next level, the next market, how you can get to these next industries, your next companies, it was never small, your roses where you are. Enjoy life in small town and Marillo

or mid-sized market in Springfield. It's always, how can I get to that next thing? - That's interesting, because I'm wired that way. - Yeah. - And so we'll hit certain benchmarks

and we'll be doing certain things on the show. And from the outside, looking in, they're like, do you're killing it? And I'm like, I don't feel like it. - I don't feel like it.

- I need to do more. - I need to do more, what's next? - Yeah. - What is next?

“- And I think there's a healthy way to really,”

I guess, filter all that, because I don't think anybody should be happy where they're out and content, because to me that breeds complacency and then you start going the wrong direction, right? Comfort kills, right?

So for me, I want to know what that level up is. How can I push the envelope even more? How can we make it better? And sometimes I think I drive my team nuts. You know, like, good old round of the like,

what can we do to make it better? He's like, dude, it's great. I'm like, no, no, no, no, like, what can we do to make it better? - Have we exhausted all resources of perfection?

- What do, like, I think that's very healthy, but it's also I grew up with a father who was a hustler. You know, when he wasn't at work, he was out doing other stuff, hustling. - Yep.

- And that's just the way it is. - Yes. - And it wasn't until later on in life, I learned what that was. Side jobs weren't side jobs.

- Oh. - Okay, you know what I'm saying? - But it's like, we had a lot of different stuff and we had a boat, we had nice cars like, we lived a nice life, but you know,

when you witness that type of thing,

you're always looking to grow.

Like, how can I get more? How can I make, and for me, it's more about, how can I impact the more? Because I know if I impact more than bottom lines gonna work itself, right?

- Yeah, I feel that, that reminds me of my dad too. So my dad growing up, he was a sheriff on my life, but he was at my basketball coach. He made sure that he was my basketball coach, my T-ball coach.

If he had his way, he'd be my teacher too. - That's crazy. - But when I went to college, he got a second job at an airline just to make sure he had more of enough money, but also to make sure I could fly from Texas

to Minnesota for free, and my dad never slept. Even now he's a retired sheriff, but now he is getting his Ph.D. He is an adjunct professor, and he worked at a ricksoner, and I just said that, when do you sleep?

He's like, and he does, and he does like, he does security for St. Thomas University in Minnesota. - Okay. - He's like the lead security, and he's just like, and he does like the little side gigs we get extra money.

When do you sleep? And he's like, when I can, and I grew up seeing my mom, and my dad that way, my mom had multiple jobs. She was a daycare provider at our house,

- Wow.

- I never slept so that, that I like to call it

that perseverance, that's embedded in me. So when we go back to saying like, being very ambitious, and always think about the next thing, I've seen it all my life, and my dad just told me the other day, I've always taught you how to fight

by I never taught you to let things just be. - Oh damn, that's impressing. - Yeah, I don't know what's that conversation go. - I was like, wait, we don't need to let it be. (laughing)

We need to keep going. - Yes, yes. - Well, I get it though, that was just a couple of weeks ago. And this was, are we gonna talk about my job now? 'Cause I'm ready to get into it.

- Just keep going. - Okay. I'm on you. - This was with my job, so I'm a lifestyle TV host, and I've been here for a year and about three four months for a lifestyle show.

That's my thing, fashion food, faith, females, fun.

Those are my five F's. And my company's taking a pivot because we are, of course, broadcasting a sports game, sports sports, yes, sports game. And that's for the paint floor to Panthers.

- Okay. - And they're pivoting to doing more sports programming for the show. And that kind of dissolved my position as a lifestyle host.

- Damn. - But before that, they were like, just do more for the Panther stuff on the show. Just do more, just do more sports stuff. And I'm like, I don't wanna do that's not me.

That's not me. And I'm like, do I need to pivot? How long will that pivot last for me?

“And then it becomes, well, what do I need to do next?”

What does this look like next?

And what if I don't have a job after this? And those are all those concessions of questions and anxiety like you said, come into play. And I'm fighting everything. I'm fighting the leadership about what they want.

I'm trying to make meetings happen to make sure we can save our show. And then all of a sudden, we get this meeting. And it's like we're changing the direction of this show and your job is being impacted by it.

So I had no choice but to stop fighting. And I spent maybe two months meeting with leadership. What do you guys want on this show? Meeting with the other people on the show. How can we pivot?

How can we do more sports even if we don't want to? What does that look like? And that was my fighting to be, to persevere. But it was just time to just let it go. And let it be.

That's a good point because when you look at things, even in my industry, right? I get a thousand unsolicited pieces of advice every single day, every single day.

“And it's usually, hey, you should talk more about this.”

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You know, I can't have conversations bashing one political side or the other political side. I can't get involved in a lot of different things because it's not going to come off authentic. And it's going to, people are going to be that's forced.

“Like you're doing this because you need to do this”

because you feel that if you don't do it, you're going to lose viewers and listeners. Okay, if I lose them, then I'll get more. - Mm. - Nice. - Right?

I want to be able to be me because if you were to go and do all the floor of Panther content and dive into the sports, if it's not your passion, it's not a part of the five Fs,

then it's not going to make sense. And it may do well ratings wise, but you'll be dying inside. - Absolutely. - And it's not worth it. - And I knew that.

And in a part of me, my therapist just told me this yesterday,

A part of me is like, well, maybe this is just what I have to do.

“But another part is like, this isn't who you are.”

So why are you putting your own needs aside to fit into somebody else's mission? This is a business. - Hey guys, we're gonna take a quick break and we're gonna slide into our recovery segment

brought to you by Therabadi.

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was founded out of physical pain. And the determined society was founded out of emotional pain. And so it felt natural for us to partner up. So here we are an official partnership with Therabadi.

And I wanna talk to you about some of the products today

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based on the products that I'm using and that my wife is actually using too that is helping us out of great deal at home. Because the great thing about these products guys is you can use them anywhere.

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Whatever that is, the first thing I wanna talk

about is the Therabadi Pro Plus. I bring that in my gym bag every day to the gym. And when I'm warming up, I use it to warm up. I put it on my arms. Whatever body part I'm using that day.

I activate those muscles. And what I find is I'm able to move my body a lot quicker. And I'm a lot stronger on those days that I do actually bring it and utilize it. I just think it's a great way to understand your body

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Another thing that I really truly enjoy is that Jet Boots Pro Plus, these things are wire-free, there's no hassle, there's no cords, there's infrared LED light, there's that compression therapy. And I've been having bad pains in my ankles,

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really helps me recover a lot quicker. And let's face it.

That's the most important thing when we're trying

to move our bodies or we're trying to succeed in life is we want quick recovery emotionally and physically. And these products help me do that and it can help you do that as well. One of the other things that I really want to go into

because it's help on my wife out a ton with headaches and being able to distract from the noise in her mind.

“And honestly, it helps to me with that, too,”

as a smart goggles. Whenever we feel a slight headache coming on or things are getting really heavy just in our minds, just thinking about all the stressors, all the things out there that we can't control,

we throw the goggles on, getting a quiet place. And there's different cycles on there in different intensities of vibrations and massaging that you can either turn it up or turn it down. And what I really enjoy is it allows me to focus on

what's going on with just me and I think about things and the massaging with the smart goggles relieves either headaches and it relaxes me and relaxes my wife to a point where we can fall asleep better. We are preparing to kind of downshift and shut down

and slow down for the evening. So I heavily recommend them. The other thing that's really good for is just

And what I found since using the smart goggles

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it works for my family and I know it can work for you, too. So I want you guys to think about things that you are struggling with. If it's lower back pain or you wake up in the morning your neck is tight, I'm gonna tell you

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So let me know how you guys like it and tell then, stay determined. That's something right there. We start to second guess ourselves, right? Like, well, maybe I'm just missing it.

Maybe I'm the problem, right? And then you start making these concessions and then your happiness starts to dwindle down the drain. It starts to go. An anxiety comes in fear comes in.

And now you can't operate the way you used to operate because you're moving out of lap. You're going to be yourself off. Yes, absolutely. Cutting out of flow, you can't be connected with God,

the higher power, when you're worried about all these other things that people want you to be. I mean, I'm sure, I mean, that's it right there. That's all good. That's it.

Like, I'm gonna be me and it's either gonna work or it's not, at least I know that I gave what I could.

“And, you know, I think it's important, you know,”

when you said, you know, your dad taught you how to hustle,

but he never taught you just how to sit with it

or how to just be. Yes. And that's comfortable for me. I know, like, because you shifted when you sit with it, maybe you want to ride it.

No, because it's a physical reaction. Like, I feel that way, too, because I don't sit with things. I can't sit with things. If I need to do something that speaks to me, if I can see it, right, and then I can get the,

and people make fun of me about this all the time. If I see something, if I close my eyes and see it, that's one thing. That's a, that's a, that's a check mark, right? But if I can feel the emotion of attainment

that I move as fast as I can, because I know I'm gonna make that my reality. But if I can't do those two things, then I can't do it. Because it's not gonna be right. Yeah.

It'll never come off good, but sitting with things.

Sitting with it, and that's been the biggest lesson in my life for the past couple of months. Sitting with it, it's uncomfortable. The thought of losing your job, laid off, whatever. It is the most uncomfortable feeling,

because I'm someone who likes to have control over my narrative. I am the person that says, all right, so this is next. And this is what we're going, and this is how we're gonna get there. God literally was like, nope, you're gonna, first of all, I surrendered it to him.

I said to him, okay, God, if we have the pivot to do more sports content, even if I don't want to do it, if you say this is what we're gonna do, let me know. Let me know. I'll do it, and I was ready to do it.

And then he gave me a ram in the bush. Abraham Abraham, do you know that story? Yes. He gave me that ram in the bush. I was about to cut off my own baby, my own baby, right?

What I worked so hard to become a gosh. Oh my God, I'm a revelation now. What is that? My own, my own self, like my own baby, this woman, this thing, this passion that I've worked so hard

to be, to achieve, and to obtain, I was gonna cut it off to fit into a mold, a piece of someone else's puzzle. Can you believe that? And God was like, no, we're going to release you.

And the most, the best circumstances you've ever seen before, 'cause I've not had a job before, and it's like, this is different. This is different.

“This is him saying, you've learned what you need to learn here.”

You're gonna take it somewhere else and you're gonna shine. Yeah, I'm so ready. You're gonna be in your own thing. You're gonna do your own thing, and it's gonna be awesome.

I mean, listen, my wife is better at this than me,

And I know when someone's special, you're special.

Thank you. Absolutely. And the thing that you gotta realize is the corporate game. - The game. - The game. Mm-hmm.

That's the game. I'm learning it. - The game is simple. - Yes. - Okay.

- You play it, or you don't stay. - Mm-hmm. - And one of the things that my wife was really good at is not playing the game. - Mm-hmm.

- And when I was around her a lot more, I started to not play the game, and then you quickly realize that you are a number. And I don't think everybody should play the game.

“I think you need to play it for long enough”

so you can figure out what your true gifts are. And then it's like, okay, this doesn't align. I'm out. Like, I'm gonna be me, you know? And if you don't like it, then we can talk about it.

But playing the corporate game and fitting into their box in their narrative, that's part of the job description, right? It's like, okay, if you're a salesperson for a certain company, then you need to be a certain way. You need to do a certain thing.

You need to check off all these different KPIs every single day and do what they say. Hey, if you have to pivot to a completely different product or topic, then, hey, if you would have been like, I'm all in, you wouldn't have been happy,

but you'd still be there, but you'd be drowning in misery.

- Yeah, you know, I always look at my career

as relationships too, because even in relationships, I cannot settle with just anything. And I always make those things equivalent. Like, I'm really happy in what I'm doing in my career and the impact I've had and the people I've met

and the stories I got to tell. And yes, I can mold and shape shift, but like you said, I'm never gonna be happy. It just in relationship is the same thing. With friendships too, you know,

you can put up with a terrible person, or someone that is not equally yolks, she'll never, it's never gonna, someone who needs to be, yeah, it's gonna be a season. - Yes. - And there's gonna be a massive blow up

at the end of your stock in the field, right? - At what cost do you lose your purpose? - And peace. - And peace, yeah. - And I'm not, I've realized that those things mean more to God than anything, yeah.

- Yeah. - And that's his willing his purpose, not even about me, 'cause I was ready to do it. All right, this is what we gotta do to stay. But God said, no, it's not you. I love that, and it's great that you are listening.

- Oh, gosh, yeah. - Because in times like this,

“and I think it's important for Ladiens to know this,”

like, 'cause they're sitting there like, okay, well, you know, I'm spiritual as well. And, you know, but maybe sometimes I don't have the discernment, if you aren't clear and you aren't, and you are desperate, you will not make the right decision.

- Out of love, yes. - You just won't do it, but it's a special moment when you can go, you know what? This, what's the worst that can happen? - Mm-hmm.

- You know, the worst thing that can happen, you know, they dissolve in your position. - Yes. - But like, that's not even the worst thing. I mean, you're still gonna live.

You're still gonna have breath in your lungs. - I thought that my world is gonna collapse. - Walk us through that. Why did you think that? - Okay, okay, I think it's valid.

I think it's about emotion. I'm just curious on your thought process. - I think so, I come from, I lived in a single parent house,

so my mom and my dad were never together.

And I am, my mom's just with her children. I'm her first child to graduate college. Everyone lives home. My brother's never, my brother once a college, my oldest, he didn't go back and graduate.

My youngest never went. And I am the one that made it out, made it out. And my biggest fear is to go back on with my tail tucked between my legs. That, to me, I'm still working on this and things for me.

But that resembles failure to me. Because my mom is my mom, my dad, they're so proud of what I've achieved. And I have been told, during this career, it been in its seven years.

I have been rejected multiple times. You're too small. You're too short. Your voice is not right. Your hair's too big.

You're not polished enough. - Your hair's too big. - Yes, I've told a story of one news, I wrecked her calling me two or three times to let me know why he wasn't hiring me.

And to make me reapply, he still didn't hire me. And then maybe months later, he was like, I reject that. I regret that. I regret not hiring you.

- Starting something new is straight up scary.

“I remember thinking, what if this fails?”

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That's Shopify.com/TDS. (bell dings) - So you live with this sphere of rejection and not being wanted when you're trying to break through this career.

And then you get the job and you're like, yes, okay, I got the one, yes.

And then you move to your second, yes, in your third, yes.

And now it's like you're in Miami for a lot of Dale Florida away from home from Minnesota, all my family. And it's like they want you to change. And if you don't change or you can't,

they're gonna dissolve your position. So what happens next? Do I go back into this pool and apply and face being rejected again? Or told you're not good enough or told it's hard

to get back into the industry? Or even told lifestyles not a thing anymore?

“Or what have got wants me to completely pivot my career?”

And at this moment, my identity is my career. It's been my career for seven years. I've been fighting to be this girl. And now all of a sudden it's gonna be gone not literally from under me, what's gonna happen to me?

And that's how I feel. I remember cleaning my house a couple weeks ago, crying 'cause I'm like, what if I don't live here anymore? Like what's gonna happen? I was so fearful of what would come of me.

But when they told me your position is being impacted

basically you're gonna lay off.

I didn't feel any of that. I felt peace. - Okay. - And I was like, okay, God. I had to remember, God, you brought me here.

I didn't want to come to Miami. I didn't want to, there were so many things that intimidated me about this station and the city. - The community. - And I was like, no, I'm not going.

But I did and I wasn't at a Emmy Award contributor, 140, 140 award within the first year of me being here. - That's so bad. - And I have to remember that part. - Yeah.

“- Yeah, you didn't have a job for three months before you got here.”

You know, you were still looking, but God sustained me. And I have to trust that he sustained me. I can't live in, oh, I'll be poor. And I'm broke and God wants me to move back home and fail he does not want those things.

- You know, I want to tell you a quick story.

- Am I talking too much? - No, you're amazing. - Okay, good. - You're amazing. This is what makes great conversation.

- Okay. - They don't want to hear me all the time. I don't want to hear you. Moving home. - Yeah.

- If, you know, you said that for me, moving home is symbolized as failure. In 2007 and '80, it's when the mortgage meltdown happened. Okay, I'm originally from the San Francisco Bay. Played baseball to LSU.

After, you know, I graduated in LSU. I came to Fordix. My parents migrated here. I spent 20 minutes in Northport, Florida. When I say 20 minutes, it's probably about two, three months.

- Okay. - I was taking my teaching certification. So I could teach, so I could coach baseball. As you coaching baseball, it was where I could hide. - Mm.

- That's where I thought my identity was. - Yeah. - Okay. And so, it was back in the day when you had to go into, this is, I'm aging myself.

So when you had to take the test on Scantron and bubble in the answer. - Scantron? - Yeah. - You're not that old?

- I did that and then they lost the test. So I, I went and got my stuff. - They lost your test. - They lost my test. I'm like, to help with this place.

I went home packed up my car and drove across the country. Back home to California, no job, no place to live. Figure it down the way home. I had a place to live and had a job on the way home. Okay.

Sorry to do a mortgages. My whole point to the story is, everything was going great until it wasn't. I walked in one day because I was talking about the real estate bubble.

That's gonna pop. It's gonna burst. Home guys are gonna drop. And rates are gonna go sky high. And all the programs are gonna change.

And no one's gonna be able to qualify for loans. - Mm. - I walked in one day and I looked at my board at a pipeline board. I had 12 loans closing that month. But total of over $70,000.

- Mm-hmm. - And one month, I was in my 20s. Opened up my computer, right? Logged in, went to my email. Lone program, killed, canceled, canceled, canceled.

Because it popped. I lost every single loan in that pipeline.

I had a mortgage, I had a car, I had my car repossessed, I had to short sell my house. And I had to move, I had to tuck my tail between my legs, and move to Southwest Florida. And I lived in my mom's house.

I didn't have a cell phone. I couldn't afford it. I didn't have a car because I was taken from the bank. And my mom at that time wasn't even living there. She was living with someone she was dating.

And so I was living in a house, no cable. I was watching, I was watching DVDs of friends over and over and over again. And then I put my life here. And the trajectory that it went,

“it was the biggest blessing that I think I've ever come across.”

But it started out as me feeling like a failure. So even if the worst thing ever happened in your mind, and you had to move back to Minnesota, you have no idea what's waiting for you. What can happen there?

Yeah, that's true, too. That's true in every aspect of this for me. If I go back home, but God's actually confirmed to me like, oh, my way here, as a matter of fact.

Can I say it? Yes, I'm driving and from Davy to Naples, part of the road is just like, just fields, like it's just flat land. And when I used to be a reporter in Amarillo,

that's when I first started.

I used to drive like five hours to Dallas to go hang out with my friends. Oh my God, that's true. I don't thirst for you to be on my friend. I know, seriously.

Five hours to hell with that. And then like in Springfield, Illinois, I would drive an hour and a half to go to St. Louis to go hang out. And it was these flat lands all the time,

just like this long drive, boring drive. And God said, do you remember the time

“when you have to drive and see all this dry land, this field?”

He said, I will net you will never have to do that again. But before that, maybe 20 minutes, I'm like, Lord, if we have to leave here, I say, I'm a knife, finish that sentence. I'm a disserender it to you.

I'm just a render, whatever we have to do. If we have to leave, if we have to change careers, if we have to go home, if we have to go to a small city again, I surrender it to you. Don't want to do it.

No, I get it. But I will. And I just got confirmed to me. And I hope I can say it, Lord. But you'll never have to do that road again.

And that's it. But it's still like, okay, God, but what if I'm that going to be in media anymore? What if I have to be a publicist or whatever? And I'm scared, he's just like you said,

no idea how that can change my life.

- So first of all, media is always going to be there.

- Always. - You can have your own platform, right? 'Cause you can do that now. - I know. - I did it.

- Yeah. - I did it. And now it's the only thing I do. I'm hoping the dream, right? It's hard.

And it's really not a dream half the time. It's like, oh my God, this is hard, right? It's very hard. But people trust these types of platforms, right? They go to it for the information.

They come to ours for stories of determination and hope. And when I'm listening to you, this is all perseverance, great, and determination. It's a perfect fit for a great conversation. - Yeah.

- But the other thing you got to think of, is like, what if I have to be a publicist? You would smash it. - I know. - As a publicist.

- I think I do great. - I mean, you would, you know, sometimes it can be a little dirty, right? Because all publicists have their own angle, right? And they allow their talent to do certain things

as long as it fits what they want them to do. And that's the ugly part of the industry, right? I've had many celebrities that have won to come on the show. But I've had contact with, and then their PR say, we're not doing any press tours, right?

I'm like, yeah, but this ALS actor just said that he wanted to do, we're not pause right now. - Yeah. - What world do I live in right now? Where the talent is like hell, yeah.

But the publicist is like, no, that's a strange thing for me. 'Cause me, I mean, I love Matt. He's my publicist, you say, no, I'm like, sorry dude, you're giving me, you're giving me some leeway on this one 'cause I wanna do it.

- Yeah.

- I think we should always be able to do what we wanna do

as long as it doesn't hurt the platform. I mean, he says, don't do it because it's going to hurt you. They're not, now I'm listening. - Right. - Not listening, right?

But if you're telling me like, no, you don't want me to do anything because I'm on a break. I'm like, I can't afford to take a break. - Right. - This is so much fun for me.

- Yeah, yeah. - My point is, it's like, all these things that you're going through and thinking about, yeah, what if? - What if? - What if you didn't have to do that.

- What if it works?

“That's what I've been on lately, what if this works?”

- Yeah, I think that's something you always have to hold on to, right? Because no matter what you choose, no matter what you go into, there's going to be a point of friction where it's not going the way you want it to go, right?

I mean, it happens to me all the time. - Yeah. - Right? But then it's conversations like this that re-energize me

We're in the game, as long as these types of conversations

happen, I'm in the game. And then I can push a little bit more. And figure out what it is I need to do. But if you're in this, you set up for it. In this mindset of lack, you can't do it.

And we all get there, we all get there, but we gotta shake out of it as quickly as you mentally possible, right? - Yeah, you do, you do. I wanna operate in abundance.

I am operating in abundance because I'm covered. And everything's gonna work out. - People look at people like you and me, when we say that kind of stuff and that they don't understand it. They don't understand it and it's okay.

“It's okay because I mean, I think that when you grow up”

around people that hustle consistently and you see things work out and then you yourself have gone through some hard moments in your life. - Yeah.

- I mean, being the first woman in 40 years

to graduate college, like think about that. And the first one to go to an HBCU, I didn't realize the importance of it at all during college. I recently realized the importance of it because now I have younger cousins who are graduating

from HBCU. And that gives me joy too because there's no way I can fail now. - Yeah. - There's no way. Even if I have to go home in Minnesota,

which I'm not 'cause I don't wanna go home. - And you're not, you're not gonna do that. But even if I have to, my achievements and the places I've been, the people I have touched and impacted is far greater than something

that didn't work out. - Yeah, yeah. - My cousins, my younger cousins are saying they wanna go

“to Spellman, Alabama, I think it's Alabama.”

Maybe it's Alabama. - Somewhere in Alabama. But just these different HBCUs because Maya went or my mom wanting to go back to school to get her GED because Maya went to college

or my mom buying her first home

because anything is possible now. 'Cause she's seen in her daughter. Maya achievements in the way God has blessed me to bless others is far greater than any layoff, any mission delay.

- Far greater. Now that we're chatting about an eye, kind of see, we're walking. - Come on, go, mom. - Come on, yes it is.

Welcome to the couch. Welcome to the couch. We get all the work done here. It's like, now I see these things, but yeah, what if it works?

What if it works? - I think that the special thing when we're going through creating something is to stay in that framework. What if it does work?

And then you get to a point after enough, what if it does work? And we're like, now it's working. Like it's gonna work. And you have to get to that point

because there's gonna be enough people rooting against you and so like internally,

“you have to believe without a shadow of a doubt.”

No matter how bad you are at the beginning at something, it's going to work out. You are going to pull through. I go back and I look at things from like two, three years ago. And I'm mortified about how bad I was.

- What did you get going? - At the time, I thought I was in it. It's all look back in another year or two and be like, wow, you suck then, but that's the point, right? - It's like, when you create something,

you have to be willing to suck at it. And he dirt for a very, very long time, because when you get to a point where you're thriving, you appreciate it much more in the humility level. It's so much greater than walking into something

and being dope. - God, you're good, man. You should also do therapy for real. - I think I'm just, I think I'm just counseling myself. - But that's about sitting in it too though.

Sitting in, sitting in it, knowing that you're at the time, he said, you knew you were at it, but sitting in it and keep going, you know, confunding and facing everything, 'cause that's where you grow.

When you avoid it, you could have been like, I don't think that was good. I'm gonna just stop here and what could have happened, you know? - I think adversity is the real classroom. - Paint, yeah.

- You know, I did a TED talk in Naples. And my talk was adversity as the real classroom. And the whole conversation was about, what does adversity teach you? How can you be a lifelong learner?

What are the things that you can do every single day that can really amplify who you are because of adversity? And I don't think, I don't think, I don't think a lot of people look at it like that.

They look at adversity as like, that's my stopping point. You know, I grew, I mean, growing up being in athletics

- Yeah. - Yeah. - God.

- Seven of the things, right?

And then all of the things that you saw, your parents work in multiple jobs, your dad not saving, your mom not sleeping, you know, all the things. Diversity is the one thing that is constant in this world. And if you freaking run from it,

you are not gonna ever win. - No. - Because people think, people think the gift is the win. And this is why Ms. Kobe Bryant so much.

- Mm. - I get goosebumps every time I say it's due's name. Starting something new is straight up scary.

“I remember thinking, what if this fails?”

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Go to Shopify.com/tds. That's shopify.com/tds. He said, like, everybody thinks the championship is the thing that that's your reward. That is your gift.

No, the moment leading up the chase, the training, the adversity, that's the gift. The other thing is just a trophy. But if you look at adversity as your move forward point, oh my god, you will, for the audience listening,

you will achieve more than you could ever imagine. If the moment something pushes back on you hard, you're like, you don't retreat. - Yeah. - You put your face in it. - Yes. - That's the gift.

- It's like a game. It's like a basketball game. I can, man, when we were 12, we went to like nationals. We were so good. We were so good in our state.

We're thinking we were like 43 and no, my dad's team, AAU, central area, girls basketball team, just a little bit of them out. - So cool. - But we were like 43 and no, and like it was practice was so hard.

And sometimes the games were so hard.

“Sometimes I remember like two girls had a concussion”

on our team, and then one of our other teammates, broke her collarbone. And like, I remember when she broke her collarbone, the game was like 43, 45 or something like that. And we were down two minutes on the clock.

We got to figure out how we can tie this up, but Jada just broke her collarbone. And I'm looking at her senior crying, and my coach, my dad, my other coach, just took me out of the game.

You're not ready. You're not ready to face this adversity, you can sit down for a little bit. So we can win this game. - Wow. - That's the one of the biggest lessons,

and it's like, you gotta even if your collarbone's broke, or someone's hurting your team, you still gotta figure out how to face this game. - Nice job. - Yeah. Next up, it's gotta be that well.

- Let's go. - And you know, and your team went and pulled through, if the moment's a practice weren't hard. - Yep. - So it's like, hey, that's good.

- I just, I reject the fact when, people say, you know, this just isn't going well, because there's too much resistance. It's like, well, if resistance builds you in the gym, then why can't it build you in life?

- Yes.

“- I mean, we go to, try to go to failure in the gym, right?”

You try to, you know, the last two, three reps, you want it so hard, you can barely get them up, but why in life do we want things easy? - Wow. Dang, you also just reminded me I need to go to the gym.

- I want to say that, you don't go to the gym? - I do. - Okay. I missed my hit workout two days and I know they're gonna get on my. Where do you go?

- UFC. - Oh, yeah. - Really?

- I just wanted to go for the vibes at first.

(laughing) I just wanted to go to make friends. - And then there's other wrong with that. - And I love it. - No.

- And I'm in the hit and I do pull out. - Okay. - And I have clothes now. - Yep. - You have UFC clothes.

You got some fighter clothes. You look a little dangerous, you know, you walk around, just did a workout at UFC gym. - Well, my pink outfit on there. - There you go.

- Walk around my headphones. - Yeah. - And I'm good at my hit class. Now it's done really good. - That's cool.

How many days a week do you go? - I go three, three a week. I go, well, four actually Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and Saturday. - That's right.

- That's really cool. - Yes.

- You know, Pilates is something I've never tried.

- You've got to do a lot. - And listen, so many of my friends that are fitness people online,

I'll comment on their stuff. Like, have you ever done Pilates? I'm like nah, like trust me. You need to do it. - Yes.

- And it's like that comfort level, right? It's like, I need to figure out a place where not that I'm comfortable going, right? But I'm just not gonna walk into a random Pilates studio. Yo, yo, yo, I'm here, you know, like, let's do this.

Because I remember one time. Okay, this is a Pilates. - Don't do that any Pilates do you? - No, it's hard. - I mean, like, I mean, I mean, I see people,

like that, that are, like I follow on Instagram, they're literally doing some small movement and they're dripping and they're shaking like, I don't like them, like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. But I think it, you know, for overall fitness

and stability and balance, I think it's smart, you know. But I got a funny story to tell you. So years ago, I mean, way, way long ago, babe, trust me. When I was living in California, I was dating, I was starting to date this girl,

and she asked me if I wanna do hot yoga. I'm like, absolutely, because I mean, like, I'm gonna go, because I'm working here. - Yeah. - And it was the worst experience of my life.

I was puking everywhere, like I was sitting there, dizzy. That is some hard stuff. So people think that like, if you're not lifting weights, if you're doing Pilates, or you're doing, you know, you know, good, it's really not exercise.

Like, that was the most tired I've ever been in my entire life.

- Pilates, when I first started seeing the, like,

my body change, where my mom was like, on his face time, right? Your arms look so sculptured, I'm like Pilates. - Yeah, because I do the work, mom. - I do it.

- I do the work, I don't stop.

“But Jess, you have to get back in there.”

- I do, I do. - Tomorrow Saturday, so you're gonna go tomorrow, right? - I'm doing my Pilates tomorrow. - Okay, but my dad, back at it, hit, hit, hit workout. I like it.

People need to go to, like I said, I went for the vibes, because I wanted to meet new people. But I got so intimidated at first, 'cause everybody seems like they know what they're doing and everybody looks amazing.

Here I am, just bouncing around, trying to figure out where the app machine is, but now, because of consistency and the community, I've built with my hit workout and Pilates class, I love it. - See, I think it's a lovely, now we're on fitness.

This is great. It's a fully comprehensive conversation. So in most of my conversations in Rhinos,

always go back to this is the gift of movement.

- Yes. - It's a true gift and a lot of people look at it as a chore, but like, if you're a cripple, would you, for a threat? - Right. - Would you regret not? - Yeah, yeah.

- Everybody needs to do what they like to do. So there's a lot of misdirection on,

“you should do hit, you shouldn't do hit.”

You should just do resistance training. I was like, whatever blows your skirt up, you go do it. You do it consistently and you eat good, right? And you're healthy, for me, I love lifting weights.

But back in November of 24, I was very overweight. So I started at Orange Theory Fitness, and I was going four or five days a week. - Okay. - And so I could get the cardio in and burn the calories and be in a long enough deficit,

a big enough deficit for a longer period of time. So I could shed some weight. And once I got to a certain point, I'm like, okay, now I'm back in the lift. Like, so don't go there anymore.

But I'm enjoying just the lift. - Yeah. - But I want to incorporate more movement. I want to incorporate some Pilates. I want to incorporate some hot yoga, because I think it's important.

And for me, learning how to stay calm and present is super important, because I am so freaking high strong. - Yeah. - Yeah, and it helps you with your breathing too. - Yeah. - Everything is connected, Sean. Everything is connected.

Working out helps you with your resilience. It helps you with your breathing. It helps you slow down. Because when I was first working out, I'm like, when you're like, you're not doing anything.

We're trying to be cute. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - You got to slow these things down. - Slow it down. - Just like light. Work it out, slow it down.

- No, it's funny, because I never played basketball,

but I had baseball. And when things got hot, when the game was tense, and on the line, Coach has always said, "Slow the game down." - Yep. - Wow.

Isn't that good? - So when you're working out, you have to do things slower. - Yeah. - Because you need the negative tear of the muscle, right?

“When you're breathing, you need to slow it down.”

I don't know what it is in basketball, but hey, you know, in life you gotta slow the game down a little bit. - Because you're gonna miss something. Everything's moving at the same time. - Yep. - You got them moving this way.

Then moving here, you're here. Slow down so you can see where are your best options? This is good. - Dude, this is like, oh, I can't come on. - Goodness. - Well, think about it.

Think about the parallel between what you're going through right now. - No, it's quite safe. - It's slow down. - Slow down. - We're slow down, because I know it seems tight.

but you're not in lack right now. You got the ball. You got the ball on your side of the core. - Yeah, you go down. - You're going down the core with 25 seconds left,

and you're the one with the ball in your hand. - We're controlling it. - We're controlling it. - You control it, right? - And so my wife tells me all the time,

“she was, hey, you need to take a minute.”

- Yeah.

- You know, and I never listen, right?

I'm a flawed human, we know I need to push. And it's more like, hey, you know, just be grateful for where you're at right now. It's still work, but don't worry about what's next. And that's a very hard for me,

because we've already covered this. I'm always looking for that another level because my biggest fear is staying the same. Like, I think that's decay. Like, if I look at myself a year from now,

and I look back, and there's no difference, that'll destroy me. That is the thing that I fear most of the time, the normal fear is like something happening to my children, or something happening to me,

and me not being there for my children. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Staying the same scares me so much. 'Cause I was never allowed to do it when I was a kid. I was like, no, you gotta progress.

- Yeah, you're not good at that now. - As an adult, how do you tell your little cell, now I'm interviewing?

How do you tell your little cell?

- It's okay to take your time. You don't have to change right now. - It's hard, I think it comes with support, right? My wife, my business partners, and my good friend Pat told me one day,

and he's one of my partners, he goes, hey, look, we can't worry about all the things that we're not getting right now. The world hasn't caught up yet. We know where we're gonna be,

but the world has to catch up.

“The only thing you need to do is worry about”

how you make the show the best show it could possibly be. So you control the controllables, right? If you're struggling in something, if you're overweight, control which you put in your mouth,

that's the one thing you can't control. It's hard, it's not easy, but you get, you have to visit, no one's shoving the ice cream in the cupcakes and the pizza down your throat, right? You're the one putting it in there.

- Yeah.

- So if you look at things in terms of,

how do I take a beat, how do I slow it down a little bit? It's just like, I mean, this moment, I'm gonna control what I can. So for me, in every single moment that I have, every single conversation, or if it's a meeting,

I'm controlling what I can right now with you, my end of it, which is being engaging and having a great conversation, and giving the audience something that they can really hold onto and like, whoa,

hey, this is good, that's the only thing you can do. 'Cause you try to control everything else, that's out of your, extrinsic thing, external, like, you were gonna drive yourself crazy. - Yep.

“- And I, and trust me, I fell out that a lot.”

I'm not perfect, but I have to rewind, Vic. - Okay. - Let it go. - What's, like, Elsa? - Let us know.

- Yeah, let it go. - Or like, Bill Harvelle, that's my dad's name. No fighting. Just let it go. - Just let it go.

- Let it be. - Let it be. - Let it be. - Wow. Have you ever listened to the words of let it go?

- No, really. - Do you know this? - Well, I mean, I have two daughters. You know, of course, if you listen to that song, it's actually a freaking jam.

- I'm gonna listen to it today. - Yeah, listen to it back. - Did you listen to drop the world? - No. - No, I didn't listen to that one.

I listened to it. - Which one? - Is it the one in the moment you got on it? You only give one shot, didn't you? - Oh, lose yourself.

- Yes, what did you do in the world? - What did you do in the world? - So, for the audience, for some context and clarification, she was stuck in traffic, and she kept text, I was like, hey, don't worry about it.

Like, we're fine. I'm not going anywhere. You get here safely, but, hey, I like to listen to Eminem when I need to calm down. It probably doesn't make sense, but, hey,

then she started listening to Eminem, and you chose for yourself. - Yes, for yourself. - My favorite Eminem verse ever is his verse on dropped the world with low wing.

- Okay, I got to listen. I can't recall. - It, you've heard it. - You know it, by heart. - Oh, I mean, except when Eminem starts doing this thing,

and it's like, I try, I say, you know, I can't really keep up, but really is like, and when someone tells me like, hey, tell me something about yourself, and I'm so much to hear and tell you,

hey, you want to know where my mind is at, and everything that I've gone through, listen to that verse. - Okay. - Listen to that verse because that plays on loop in my mind.

And when you get in the car, you're gonna text me afterwards. - I'm gonna tell you right now, you're like, dude, wow, because that verse is about being overlooked by people. - Yeah.

- It is about, don't sleep on me.

It's beddy by. Like, it's like literally don't overlook me. - Yeah. - Like, I'm coming, like this is it. And for me, it just, those types of songs,

like, especially Eminem, he fills my soul, dude. Like that dude is the go. Like he is so darn good. - Yeah, I love Eminem.

- Yeah. - He's a legend. - Yeah. - Do you think he should do the next Superbowl? What do you think about an Eminem Superbowl?

What he bring out people?

“- Yeah, I think he would probably bring out Lil Wayne.”

He'd probably bring out David Dufraver. - For sure.

- Which is another amazing Eminem verse.

You know, Dre forgot about Dre. - Yes, he would bring out Dre. - He would have to. - No, he has to start with that straight. - Dre, right there, like, that's the initial.

Then I think they go, you know, Dre, Lil Wayne. I don't know, I just think that, you know, what would I think about an Eminem Superbowl? I don't care who's playing, I'm going. (laughing)

- I mean. - The embo, yeah, it's like, - Yeah, it's like-- - Exactly, you're right for Superbowl. I'm like, I'm right to see Eminem.

Like, that's it for me, like, I don't, the whole game's already scripted. They already know who's going to win. I really give a shit about that. But I want to see Eminem.

- We have to see him. - We have to see Eminem.

“It's funny because I think music, right?”

- Right. - And we get on tangest a lot, but for me, it's always connected.

Like, I think as people, we're always looking

for inspiration in certain areas. And for me, sometimes it's a lot of times it's music. And so, because I can literally throw something on. And I can be in the most intense moment and it can calm me down.

- Yes. - Because of what it means, right? What that verse means or whatever. It calms me down and it gets me to focus. - You feel seen almost.

It's like someone is speaking exactly what you're thinking because sometimes when you're going through for me at least, going through so much, you can't put words to it, then you hear the right song. It's like exactly it.

That's exactly what I was thinking. - Yes, it's like, wait, you get me. Like, you made the song for me. But then there's that connection like, well, if I feel that way and you felt that way,

like dude, that's cool. - Yes.

- I've realized that in college,

everyone thinks that they are going through things on their own, but so many people have the same or similar struggles, or trying to find the similar path. Or we're all connected, we're all connected in some way. - That's so good, it's a great segue.

'Cause we live in a world right now, where we think that everybody's different, right? We want to find about things and you don't believe the same thing as I do, but I'm not saying it don't, but I'm saying like just in general,

“we don't believe exactly how I think you should believe”

or how you think I should believe. So now I don't like you. - I think the main thing that people are missing, and I have this great conversation. Have you ever seen scandal?

- Starting something new is straight up scary. I remember thinking, what if this fails? What if nobody listens? But taking that leap, changed everything, and having Shopify on your side makes it a whole lot easier.

Get started with your own design studio with hundreds of ready to use templates to build a beautiful online store that matches your brand style. Get the word out like you have a marketing team

behind you with easy email and social media campaigns, wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling. Best yet Shopify is your commerce expert with world-class expertise and everything from managing inventory to international shipping

to processing returns and beyond. It's time to turn those, what ifs into was Shopify today? Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com/tds. Go to shopify.com/tds.

That's shopify.com/tds. - You know what, that's one I haven't watched, and I am going to probably get canceled for that. Everybody seems scandal and I have not, I do not know why,

but I am this type of person when something is hyped, I don't even touch it. But it's on Netflix right now, and I've been thinking about getting into scandal, which means Olivia Pope.

- Amazing, amazing. - Yeah. - I need to work. - I need to work too. - I need to work too.

- I need to work too. - I need to work too. - I need to work too. - It was just so good in so many different ways. - I think I was just too young, probably.

- Probably. - But I'm getting into it because everybody's been telling me. - I'm all my seventh time through it. - Really? - Well, I met a so Tony Goldwyn place president fits.

- Yes. - And I was in D.C. in January for some TV,

- It's good over there and talk to that guy, I'm like,

who is it? I don't know what you're talking about. So I sit down and I hear him talking and I'm texting my nephew, he was coming to hang out at the new station in the green room. And we ended up having some type of conversation.

And I wasn't looking at him yet. And his voice sounded super familiar. I was like, there's no way in God's green earth it's this man. There's no way I look up on my holy shit. - It's him.

- Yeah, I'm like, hey, what's going on man? He's a nice to meet you and we have this long conversation. And he asked me what I do, what I'm doing there. And I told him, yeah, this is what I do. He's like, oh my gosh, my daughter and I just started

our own podcast, like, what are your thoughts? I'm like, my thoughts, like, you know, you're Tony Goldwyn. But he like, do what you do, but maybe not that. They need a thought, just do you, but we had this deep conversation. We spoke for probably 30 minutes.

And we're working with his PR to schedule something for me to go up in New York and do something with him. But he said to me, that he's like, you know what? I just wish that people realized that we're more connected and more similar

than we are dissimilar. I'm like, dude, I feel the same exact way because we're all connected, we're all energy. And I just think it's super important, especially in these times now that people,

okay, there's so much allegiance to certain figures, right? Certain people, and those certain people that everybody admires, right? And it's fighting for two sides fighting.

America's divided. We all know that. Yes. You know, why do you do this? No, no, no, no. Those figures don't give a shit about you.

This is a movie, this is a PR stunt. Everything is scripted. Everything is a, is a misdirection from something else. Like, come on, guys, like it is built for us to fight.

“But if we can just sit there and say, you know what?”

I'm not buying into it and I won't buy into it. I clearly won't. Like, I refuse to hang out with people that want to talk crap about other people because they don't believe the same things.

Like, no, this is America. But we're all here because this is the place that it's supposed to embrace differences. Yeah, right? I think my take on everything,

because I've lived as a news reporter. I've lived in Amarillo. I've lived in rural areas when I first started. And of course, now I'm covering out here.

The people that I've met are always so interesting.

I met more pleasant people than I've met nasty people. And I've met some nasty people, yeah. But I've met so many pleasant people, black, white, blue, brown, purple. And it doesn't matter for real for me,

what other side of this country you're wanting to be on? Yeah, I'm what you. What's your heart look like? How do you treat people when you're upset?

“How do you treat people when you're sad or disappointed?”

And what do you mean? And how can I help you? That's what we're here for. We're here to serve. We're here to serve each other.

I need you. You need me. I need you to survive. That's actually a song. Is it?

What song is that? I need you. He's saying me. I need you to survive. You never heard of it?

No, what is it? It's a christ, it's a gospel song. So I learned it growing up. It's like, it is his little, whatever, every, I forgot, Google it.

I'll forget it. But it is, send it to me. I will, I will, I will listen to that Eminem song. Yes, you listen to this song. OK.

I forgot how it goes. But it's, I need you to survive. And it's, it's talking about this everyone.

“You need to get each other and I think we're getting away from that.”

Yeah, I mean, we've gone away from that. We're far past that line. Yeah. We're far past that line. And that's kind of one of the things that, you know,

always chuckle. Because at the beginning of the conversation,

I said, there's always someone telling me that I need to do X or Y or Z.

I have chosen to stay very neutral. Because I am very neutral. Yeah. I am very neutral about everything that goes on this world. You do you keep the children safe.

Protect the children. Don't put it in front of them. But then make their decisions when they're, when they're grown-ups. But outside of that, we're cool. I mean, unless you're killing people and, you know,

doing some ronchy stuff, then I'm not cool with it.

I wanted this platform to be for everybody.

Yeah. I want everybody to feel comfortable here. You don't have to get into politics if that's not your thing. No, I see. Because that's like saying for me, being a lifestyle host that I,

I'm getting into policies and politics like that. Granted, I am a big advocate for women, and I am a big advocate for a women of color, just because I am a black woman. And I know our experiences are different.

And the way we are viewed, the ways we are viewed are different. And we go through our own, um, I don't want to call it a sacred. We go through our own experiences navigating corporate America and just this world, you know.

And I'm a huge advocate of giving women their platform to share

their stories. But you won't see me going into policy and stuff on my platform for real. But I do talk, I would talk about the experience of a black womanhood. I like that, though, right? Because that's something you have experience in.

And like we, like we said off air, like I don't have that experience. I don't know what that's like. It is interesting. I mean, and it is interesting.

“I think for me and only my experience, I am a very direct black woman.”

And I have been told like, you can't be so direct because it makes you look aggressive. It makes you look like you're angry. That's a trigger word. Yeah. That you, that trigger for you.

Not for me. But for black women, you know, I've got the black woman. Yes. And I don't like people say you're so passionate about it. I'm passionate about it, but what I'm saying I'm just being very clear.

So someone says you're passionate. I don't know how to take that these days. But like, so if we're having a conversation, and I said to you, it's like, my, I love your passion. You're very passionate.

That's decent. But I'm telling you about an issue that I think needs to be rectified, I understand you're passionate about it. I feel like that's a little condescending. No, that's very condescending because what they're saying is, I understand you're passionate

about it. They're saying like, I don't understand why you're passionate about it because I can't understand your perspective. And that's not how good conversation starts. It's definitely not how they end.

A lot of conversations are like that with me as a black woman.

“I think I'm learning that in this in this world too, because I have this leadership or about”

me. I am a leader. And I'm still learning how to talk to people in a way they can receive it. But because I'm a black woman, I have seen where there is less room for air in my field. Or for me, it's less room to make a mistake in how you're talking to someone.

There's less room to get frustrated and get out your square a little bit when people are being unprofessional or just outright of just not doing what they're supposed to do. And you know, you get to a point where you're, you're, you're the bubble pop. Yeah. And black women sometimes have to remember we can't say exactly what's on our mind literally

because we're a black woman and how the, dare this black woman say that she is upset with something that way. Oh my God, she's so aggressive or overwhelmed. I've gotten that a lot and I can't explain to you why this happens. But I can tell you, it's happened to me a lot.

And I've had to figure out and talk with mentors, how do I navigate this water when you have five different managers who are all white, all men or sometimes a white woman. And they see you and they are threatened by your passion. I knew you were going there. I was already bringing my quotes up.

“You know, I think it's interesting because, you know, again, I said, I don't have that experience,”

right? And just so you know to clarify, you don't ever have to temporary anything around me. Ever.

Because I never were going to think anything of anything where friends now.

So, but you know, when I look at what you said earlier about your two small, your two short, your hair's too big, you're not polished enough. Those last two, to me, you're not polished enough and your hair's too big is a direct attack on your race, but when you told me that, I'm like, that's that's racist a shit. You know, because like, I don't know, I don't even understand that.

You know what, going to an HBCU gave me tough skin, a little bit, a little callous, because I know who I am. I'm a great black woman, I'm very passionate in my own way. I'm very educated, I'm strong, I'm a leader, I'm motivated, I'm ambitious, I am kind. And I learn all of those things about what it means to be a black woman at an HBCU.

I became proud of who I was as a black woman.

And I was in cross country and like, I remember the cross country girls used to talk about

“going to go canoeing and what are you going to do for the summer?”

I'm white, that sounds horrible. I'm going to go canoeing with my parents and I'm like, and a little girl from the hood,

it's like, I've never been canoeing and they make you feel excluded, but going to a black

college where I felt proud to be black, proud to be a black woman, proud to be an educated black woman from an HBCU. Yeah, you can tell me all you want and it's confusing to me because I'm proud of me. Why aren't you accepting that and I realize you don't have to. No, you don't have to.

For them, it's not from those are great points though, but it's when you see the canoeing. Oh, yeah. You know, I think, you know, and a lot of people don't know this about me and it's something that I've had to put together over the years, like, because not knowing my biological father really, like, not even knowing what my ethnicity is.

Well, I mean, I've learned that there's a lot of Spain, like Spanish, American Indian. That's from my mom's side. I knew that Lebanese, from my dad's side.

Like, there was a ton of different things thrown at me when my potential, you know, DNA,

like who I am, very little of it was Caucasian. But I look white. It's people automatically go, you're white. And that's fine. I don't care.

But I grew up in the East Bay in California, and he's talking to you some little girl from the hood, like what I learned over the years is that I actually grew up in the ghetto, too. I didn't know, like I didn't know as a kid. I just thought that, you know, walking out of middle school and running from the

bloods was normal. That's what experienced. That's what experienced. That's my experience. They would wait at the path, and they didn't like me because I had a, I mean, I had

a flat top, right?

“You know, I mean, like, in the moment back in the day, isn't the 90s, early 90s, right?”

No, like, yeah, early late 80s, early 90s. Yeah. And so, like, you go through those things and you just think it's normal, right? You don't understand when you, when you, when you're in that world, and you have that kind of stuff going on in the gangs and in, in, in, in, in, a melting pot of races, you

don't understand black, white, brown, you, like, these are the people I live around. And the, the, the longer that I'm around, and I, and I look back at it, and it's like, no wonder I'm so diverse, is because I've been in this, I, I, I literally feel comfortable around everybody because I grew up in it. Did you ever experience any of your black or brown friends being treated differently than

you growing up? And, and did you ever feel like you needed to advocate because of your privilege? It's a really hard question. And my silence isn't because I'm not going to answer it's because I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm scanning through the era.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean?

“The areas of, like, when did I notice this growing up?”

I, for me, I didn't feel privileged, right? Outside looking into some other people, yes, I'm privileged. I can, I can wear that.

Like, I, I, I'm never going to argue with somebody that says, like, you, you're, you're

probably, you're privileged. I'm okay. I, I, I, I don't, you never, you never thought about it. I never thought about it growing up because we didn't, we know, like, yeah, we had things, but, like, you know, it wasn't just, it wasn't just handed to.

Right. Yeah. Right. So, but also have an experience the other side. So, I have to take their perspective and be like, you're probably right.

Mm-hmm. It's not for me to defend. And sometimes, I, I, I give people grace because they don't realize it in the moment. You're, I mean, you're only exposed to what you're exposed to.

Yeah. Like, and so, like, for me, like, that, that part of your question, the privilege part is I, I don't understand it because I don't ever feel privileged. My life hasn't been easy, but I can also appreciate it, appreciate the fact that it's been a lot easier than a lot of other people.

To answer your question about, like, my black friends being treated differently, starting something new is straight up scary. I remember thinking, what if this fails, what if nobody listens, but taking that leap, changed everything, and having Shopify on your side makes it a whole lot easier. Get started with your own design studio with hundreds of ready to use templates to build

a beautiful online store that matches your brand style. Get the word out like you have a marketing team behind you with easy, email, and social media campaigns wherever your customers are scrolling or scrolling. Best yet, Shopify is your commerce expert with world class expertise and everything from managing inventory to international shipping to processing returns and beyond.

today at Shopify.com/tds. Go to Shopify.com/tds. That's Shopify.com/tds. Not growing up.

“In fact, it was the black kids picking on me, taking my lunch money, and then my Romanian”

buddies beating their ass, because I couldn't protect myself. I was a dork, but as I got older, my best friend, I played baseball with in college black, and I did see it. We talk about it a lot. He's angry.

He wasn't angry, he's being mistreated, he had every right to have certain feelings about how he was being treated, you know, and again, you know, this is Louisiana, you know, with school in Texas. Yes.

So, I've heard shit in a locker room that I never heard before, and I'm like, did you just say

that word out loud? You just say that to that person like directly, like it blew me away, because I never heard it. I never heard it back home. You know, I was, you know, 21, 21 when I went to LSU, that was the first time I ever

heard somebody pop off that word to someone directly, and they got their ass handed to them in the locker room. I never, it's just different. It's different. They're all in the same country, but it's just different experiences in different regions

of the world. And the country, yeah. And to me, it wasn't until then. Yeah. Where it was, it was obvious, you know, and there's a lot of her full things that people

would say, you know, got to have one, the token, like how, how fucked up is that?

It's like, that's a human being, so I don't, for me, it's like, I had, I always had a hard

time dealing with that, because it, it hurt me too, because I was listening to it. And I care about these people, for my friends, so I just, I don't know if that answers your question. Well, yeah, I mean, yeah, you realized that you soon realized that sometimes we're treated differently, even if you weren't growing up, you know, and for me, that going to Texas,

being in Minnesota, and my dad's biracial, and so he always, we should say, I need you to diversify your friend group.

“You need to have different friends who are different cultures and ethnicities and come from”

different backgrounds. And I never understood why, and then he's just like, this is how the world is, but then I didn't ever get the, the, okay, but what about my blackness? And, and I am black, but whatever, but going to school, I got a whole different outlook on what black means, and that took on my dad taught me, and took what I learned at school,

and I brought it to corporate America, and I became just this- That's amazing. This girl, yeah.

I've never had this conversation with somebody like that.

Really? Yeah. Oh, welcome to the cat. She flipped it on me, she flipped it on me, but I love being asked hard questions like that. Yeah.

Um, you know, because growing up, I could keep saying, when I was growing up, like, my friend group, there was me, but I'm just like, mixed of everything. Yeah. You know, a couple white dudes, Palestinian, and Indian, Jewish, wow, like, a Mexican. Real.

Like this is like, that was my, that was my baseline, you know, so it, but as you, you get to go into these different parts of the world, different, but you take what you know of who you are, and you didn't allow people in the locker room to take your mind. You still loved and still had a heart for people, because you grew up with so many people, and you didn't have these thoughts of stereotypes in your head.

So that's respectable. Yeah, and it's, it's also ignorance, right? Ignorance is bliss, right? I had no idea. You know, it, it's so like, this one always gets me to if you have a reality TV show.

Mm-hmm. And there's a black male or a black woman, and also like an equal, you know, white male or white woman, right? And either the white woman and the, and the black woman are both going off the rails. Who are they going to look at?

The black woman. I'm sorry. I'm going to say it.

“Like that's, that's what society's conditioned to do.”

So take that in, that's my experience sometimes in corporate America. That's why. It's like, it's like, you are playing Russian roulette. If you get impatient or fed up and, and, and, and express it in a way that's not.

somebody else does it.

“They're going to say, well, the, you have to, you have to, you can't control everyone else,”

but you can control your actions and it's like, don't communicate how you feel. Don't. Because you're not allowed to. No. Because you're skin color.

You know, these are hard conversations. And that's why I appreciate it so much because like, no one's ever asked me that question. I was like, oh, shit, like, no one's ever asked me that question, but we're very transparent here, right? And, and I just feel that, they're important questions, and, you know, the one, though,

that that really trip me up was the privilege. And what we, what we have to understand is, because I bet you, people are listened to that, and they're like, I know, he's, he's worked his ass, that's all she's saying. Yeah, yeah. That's all what she's saying.

“You have to be open to other perspectives, just because it's not true in my mind.”

It doesn't mean it's not true in somebody else's mind, because they have different experiences in life and have gone through different things to prove that I might have had an easier road. And not even just an easier road as like things being handed to you, but just like I said, you can be a black girl, white girl on corporate America or whatever things, they're

acting the same way, who are they going to look at? And like, if you and, and I'm not saying this happened to you at all, but if you are in a car, and your black friend is in the car with you, and there is an hostile racist cop, who

was he going to look at first?

There are just some things in society. We just have to accept that there's things that you may be able to do that. Your black friends weren't able to do and get the same treatment as the results of those things. And you guys could have really worked together and, and, and grit and grinded your whole

lives. Yeah. But other people don't know that either when they look at you. You know, I respect that and I, I think you're, I think you're cracked. I know you're right.

You know, it's, uh, but when it's something you don't think about, you know, it takes a special conversation with a, with a great person to, to bring that out, right?

“And I think it's a conversation that I think a lot of people might be triggered by, right?”

I mean, like, I bet you there's people squirming right now. But guys, just what if it were true? And if it is true, then what's so bad about it? Like, think, I mean, like, really think, like, if it's not going to destroy who you are as a human being, being open to other people's perspective on how they view life, that

is true connection. I think I have privilege, too. I have pretty privilege. And I think the people joke about it. But I am a thing.

No, that's a thing. Yes. It is. It's definitely a thing. I've gone through.

And I've been with other, I want to even say, like, ugly friends or anything like that. But I don't have any ugly friends. I don't have any ugly friends. I don't have any ugly friends. I refuse.

But I have an, and pretty privilege. And then even being just a lighter skin complexion from other black women, I remember

in high school, I don't think of myself as Lysk and NeverHag, like, Lysk and Darzkin never,

like you don't look at color, I have a Darzkin mother. I was raised around Darzkin women. I never thought, oh, I'm Lysk and I'm better, or I'm caramel, I'm better. But in high school, I had a friend, and we were just joking or whatever. And I think we're trying to like joke about who this boy was going with, and I'm like,

he's going with the Lysk and Girls, and she got so upset at me. And I did not understand why me saying, on Lysk and meant anything to her, but her experience as a darker complexion black girl was completely different from mine. And I could have been like, she's wrong, or whatever, or squirmed or whatever. But I had to take what she said into consideration as she gets treated differently.

And I can't say, well, my mom is Darzkin, I don't see that, I'm sorry, I did not know. You were treated differently because of your complexion, because of your complexion. So I always kept that in mind, pretty privilege, being seen as she's a pretty girl, or seen as she's a light, lighter skin girl, so she can get away with other things. Even if I don't feel like I'm experiencing that, I mean, I believe that a 100% you know,

I believe that, you know, I don't look at myself as a extremely handsome individual. I'm marginally handsome as you know, but like, I know I'm not super ugly either, right? And I know that, and I truly believe this, because I know I have a really good voice.

It has always been told to me your voice is amazing, it calms me, it suits me, it's gentle.

But I also know that if I were really ugly, then this show wouldn't be really where it's at. I really, I really do believe that.

“I believe that everybody has certain marketability, everybody, you know, like, okay,”

I can see it. Image, like, she has image, and if I didn't have that image, I mean, I could, you know, even if I, even if I were super ugly, but I had image and I had something like some type of it factor, like, then yes, I would, I would progress. So I believe it.

I mean, I'm, I'm a firm believer in it. It's an ugly reality to where we are, but people want to bury their head in the sand about it. They don't want to talk about it. They've got to face it, the face the adversity, like you said, yeah, it's part of it.

You can't avoid it and, and, and advocate for others who can't advocate for themselves. Yeah. It's important. Very important. If you see something happening, and I'm not saying, go pick it, fence writing and all

of that, but advocate for that person, try to learn more about their experience and try to ask questions to see how we can help each other. 100%. Because we're here for each other. Yeah.

What a conversation. I know. Oh my God. It went down a road, didn't it? It went down a road.

It's never gone on this show.

“This girl's getting, getting things out of me and that she's never, that it's never been”

talked about. I hope that people don't cancel me. I've never been canceled before. No. You can't.

You know when it's getting canceled from this. Have been canceled before. You have? Yes. My first.

Your first flight. My first reporting job. I did a story about vaping. Because man was in the hospital because he was vaping. And like I did the story and I like talk to him about his lung failure, whatever it was.

And then I, and I also interviewed like a vaping store owner to get both sides of this, whatever they wanted to call it. That's real reporting. But go ahead.

“The vaping store owner went to the guy, paid his medical doctors notes and told the guy”

to say that I was lying about the story. And the, the national association of vapors, which is a thing. National association of vapors, association something.

They grilled me, this is my first job.

Oh my God, you're reporting on a story for crying out loud. We had to like put out the entire like raw interview of the guy in the hospital and like the transcripts and stuff. And like he had to come on the, the, the, the, the, oh my God. Yes.

The, the store owner had to apologize, but he also like made fun of like me on camera. I had said, acts instead of ask because I was new and nervous on camera. And like my words, we didn't come out right. And he was like, you better act somebody making fun of me being black and ghetto. Yeah, that's my first job.

That's tone deaf, man. Yes, that was a number of little Texas. Well, that makes sense, but like that's when I first got canceled and I guess I got rehired after that. Well, there you go.

They came back. You're good. You're good. Well, thank you so much for coming on. I'm, I'm really excited to say connected with you, you know, when these types of conversations

have and people, they become my friends, so you're stuck with me now sorry, sorry for it. But I'm looking forward to seeing what you're going to do next. If there's anything I could do for you, like I'm here. I want to see you succeed, but I'm also here just to cheer your ass on, so whatever you

need. Thank you. Thank you.

So, all right, guys, what an amazing conversation, from a, with an amazing human

being, and listen, her Instagram handle will be in the show notes. So please go take a look, follow her up, and watch what she's going to do from here on out in her quirks. I know whatever she's going to do, whatever she chooses to do, she's going to excel and be blessed at it and give lots of value to the people that are here in this world.

So guys, I say this all the time, I say this all the time, adversity is the real classroom and if you face some of it, don't run from it, that's your gift, that is your moment or you can put your face in that shit and move forward and get better in your life and better your life for the people that are in your life, like your loved ones, your friends, all your family and your co-workers and whatever it is, your dog, your cats, I don't care.

If you have a guinea pig, that's your choice, them too, and the rabbits, and the rabbits, yes, the rabbits, they all matter, rabbits matter. So listen, guys, share this to someone you know, love and trust and, like, let us know what you think. Like, we are happy you sat here for over an hour and listen to this conversation.

We hope you are entertained, but more than anything, we hope you're inspired to see other perspectives and just understand that your perspective isn't the only one. So until next time, guys, stay determined.