My Husband’s Addiction Grosses Me Out

My husband has been using nicotine coaches for a couple of years now.

And I just find it really, really gross. [LAUGH]

“Number one, I think Kelly is setting me up here.”

So mine is out now, and I can have this conversation more honestly. [MUSIC] What's going on, this is John, the Dr. John Deloni's show. They can call us from hurting people, regular people, fun people from all over the planet talking about their mental and emotional health, their marriages, but everything got going on in their life.

It's got to Portland, Oregon, and talk to Emily. What's up, Emily? >> Hi, Dr. John, how are you? >> I'm great, how are you? >> Odyssey, I'm a little cold, because I'm a city in my car.

And it's like four degrees, so four, something like that. >> That is unconscionable.

That is two cold, said this, Texan, Nash billion, she's that's freezing.

Well, thanks for bringing the cold for the call here. What's up? >> Yeah, so I wrote in, because my husband has been using nicotine coaches, like the Zen coaches for a couple of years now, and I guess before that, he was vaping, and I really didn't like the vaping, so he switched to the pouches.

And I just find it really, really gross, and I don't want him using nicotine, and yeah, I just want to know if there's any way I can convince him to stop.

“>> Number one, I think Kelly is setting me up here.”

Number two, I am going to take my nicotine patch out that I have in my mouth right now.

Stand by, all right, so mine is out now, and I can have this conversation more honestly. So, all right, so you said a couple of things here that I want to double-click on, okay? So, what is his, when he tries to paint you this rosy picture of nicotine, what is he trying to do? What is he telling you? >> Well, he tells me that he thinks it's good for him.

He thinks it's like he self-medicating, maybe for ADHD, and he says, you know, it makes me a better husband, a better father, and like it just makes his mind sharper, and he likes to use it if he's stressed, but, you know, then he just pretty much uses it constantly all the time. >> Okay, okay, so, well, I've got his story underneath your story. I heard you say you think it's gross, right?

And I've a couple of times in my life, grabbed a coke that I thought was a coke, and it was a dip can, and so that's disgusting, right? I've been, and seeing a bunch of like, watered up dried up pouches laying around, somebody's carhouse is disgusting, like I get all that. But I also heard underneath the, I think it's grosses, you don't believe him.

Tell me about that, or, or it's a moral thing, like I think what he's doing is wrong,

“and I think he's making up a story about it to justify his actions, and that's what you find gross,”

or, like, I don't say, I want to say it, really cool, so true, my husband's, my husband's weak. >> Yeah, yeah, I mean, that is the story, that underpins it, and I don't want to feel that way. But that's how I find myself appealing. And every time I see him with one in, which is all the time, it makes it really hard for me to respect him. Ooh, okay, tell me about that.

>> Well, so I guess there's a few different layers to it. I mean, part of it is that both of his parents died of addiction. >> Okay. >> And what kind of addiction? >> His dad died of lung cancer from smoking cigarettes, and then his mum died of alcohol addiction.

Yeah, so his parents died when he was 15 and 21. >> Yeah, so very young, and, you know, my family has struggled with alcohol addiction a bit too. And so it's a very addiction, as a, you know, broad brush is a very sensitive topic for me. And, you know, it's not something that I sort of play with, if you will.

>> Okay.

>> And, but I feel like he is just kind of playing with it like, "No, I'm not addicted,

but I am going to die." >> Sure.

“So here's what you said is really powerful, and I want you to hold it tightly, okay?”

The stories that you're making up are yours. Or body's alarm system to anybody addicted to any substance is the alarm going off in your chest. >> Yeah, I would say that. >> And I want you to own that discomfort and own that your body's trying to take care of

you and not create a story about morality or character issues and dump that on somebody. Because the one thing I've learned about addiction is, yes, there's some insanely addictive chemicals. A few more addictive than nicotine. It's insane, right?

I know personally, I know, right? And I'll tell you my story with them, but that's not as important as what I'm going to talk about here is the addiction isn't the main problem. The main problem is the thing underneath it. What is that addiction working to support?

>> Right. So the hardest question in your body is probably been asking since you were a little girl is, what is so bad about me, what's so bad about us, what's so bad about this home, that you have to do that? >> Yes, that's true, accurate.

That is heartbreaking. >> Yeah, I remember saying that to him too, actually, like, do you feel like I'm not doing enough? >> There you go. >> Like if he's feeling so stressed and so uneasy in his body that he needs to turn

to a substance, then clearly I'm not setting up the right environment. >> There you go. What does he say when you say those kind of things to him? >> Well, I haven't said that two in a long time because I forced myself to put it on the back there so we could live.

>> I know, but by putting it on the back burner, you actually went all the way full circle and put all of your internal stories on to him. >> Yes, that's fair. >> So here's the path forward is, hey, I want to talk you about something.

Here's what I'm seeing, and here's what I experienced in my home.

You know this, I don't know you experienced the student at home, and then here's the important part. The story I'm choosing to make up is, there was something wrong with me when I was a little girl that was so bad that my parents had to drink just to survive my presence.

“The story I'm choosing to make up is, you have to smoke, you have to vape, you have”

to use nicotine, you have to use substances because I have not set up a good enough home for you to feel safe. >> But I feel like that's true. >> Okay, but what I'm telling you is it's not false. >> And then what is true?

>> What matters is, let's me telling you what's true, and more you saying here's the story I made up, and let him have an opportunity to respond. >> Okay, sorry, sorry. >> Your parents, listen to me closely, your parents did not struggle with alcohol because of you.

>> Well, I couldn't fix it.

>> I know, you're a child, you're a kid, those never your job defects.

>> Yeah.

“>> And you have to stop beating up seven-year-old you.”

Your parents' challenges were never on you, and I hate the fact that you were either forced or slowly developed over time, a sense of responsibility that you're a job to make sure mom and dad are okay. That should be no kid's job, no kid can carry that. And if you're married to a guy who grew up in a home, full of addiction, loss of parents

at young ages, this is going to sound, people are going to go, if all he's doing is use a nicotine patches, I'm going to say it's a huge win. He has a very fragile nervous system. >> Yes, that's, yeah, it's- >> From now on, he grew up. That has nothing to do with you.

>> Mm-hm. >> And so in a strange way, him using nicotine patches so that he can stay regulated is maybe

to stay with you. >> Mm-hm. >> And is that healthy? No.

No, it's not healthy, but what we can do here is then now I've made up a story, he responds,

he's made up some stories, because here's his story, I can almost guarantee you. You think a story I'm choosing to make up is you think I'm weak. You think I'm not enough of a man for you. You think I'm gross. And you might have to look at him and say that I have made up those stories about you.

And then you all get to do this one magic thing, decide this question, how do you want this home to feel when you walk in? >> Mm-hm.

“>> You know the best way to learn how you can set up a home where he feels at peace,”

ask him? >> Mm-hm. >> Not try to imagine it and go run and try to solve it like he had to do with your parents. >> Right. >> And he might say, "Oh my gosh, plop that on the couch with me and watch a show

every once in a while." >> Mm-hm. >> Right. >> I feel like he would probably tell me that he does feel like our home is peaceful. >> Okay.

Why do you think he's lying to you? >> 'Cause I think he keeps reaching for the negative. >> I actually think you think he's lying because you have to reckon with. You married a pretty good guy, a guy that you loved, and love and somebody has gotten you hurt your whole life.

>> Yeah, I would also be true. >> And you're not a piece in your home, and you don't know what to do next. And my guess is he could quit nicotine and start working out. And over time, that would become an issue with you.

“>> Yeah, she does work out lots, and I'm making up something.”

But yeah, I know. >> My guess is your search for peace, you're outsourcing that to other people. It's y'all's job to create peace for me from the inside out. It's going to be a moving finish line that nobody can ever fully run across. >> Mm-hmm.

>> Is that fair? >> Yeah, yeah, I would say I don't really ever feel peaceful. >> Okay, so a weird thing. >> No matter when with the best guy, I don't. >> Yeah, how long have you all been married?

>> Three, three years?

>> Okay, here's what sucks about our bodies.

We're attracted to what our bodies are comfortable with, what it knows. >> Mm-hmm. >> And you're going to have to over time, if you want this thing called peace, you're going to have to wade through seasons of being uncomfortable because peace. A guy that just tells the truth and it just kind of is and is awesome and takes care of you

and takes care of himself and takes care of the home, that is going to feel unknown to your body. It's going to feel for it. >> Mm-hmm. And so your body will be like, not comfortable, not comfortable, not comfortable.

>> Mm-hmm. >> Yeah, I've just been experiencing that. >> And so give yourself some grace, man. >> Mm-hmm. >> All right, and here's the--

>> Yeah, that's hard. >> It's so hard. It's so hard. >> Mm-hmm. >> And a thing you've probably heard me tell people on the show,

I want you to write a letter to your seven-year-old self. >> Yes, that's suggested that she does that. >> No, you do that. >> Good job. >> And I should probably do that.

I should take my own advice. >> Let that girl off the hook. You're holding your hostage and write a letter to your mom and dad. Don't ever send it. But get that story out of your body.

>> Yeah, that's a good idea. >> All right, can I be honest? Can I say the truth now? >> The truth, truth, truth. >> Oh, is it going to make me cry?

>> No, I'm going to actually-- I'm going to be on your side for a second. >> Okay. >> Well, I'm going to challenge you and then I'll be on your side. Okay, both in.

>> Sounds good. >> Have you listened to my show for a while? >> Long time.

“>> Okay, you know that I'm kind of a scattered mess, right?”

>> No. >> Yes. >> I went to an event where they gave out a whole bunch of-- it wasn't Zen, but it was like Zen, like products. >> Yeah.

>> I've never messed with any of that stuff ever.

And I did it in equals one experiment. I want to see what this whole thing's all about. >> Yeah. >> And I will tell you, it made my brain feel like a laser beam.

>> The words he used, I will fully confirm.

“I feel like a better employee, a better coworker.”

One time in Kelly will tell you, she came in here to the booth and goes, "I don't know what you're taking now, but keep doing that." Because everyone on the team's got like an hour back in their life every day. Right? >> Yeah.

>> And so, and now I'm a raging addict, it got me. >> Mm-hm. >> Right? >> And that's true too. And there is no amount of bending the truth that I can say what I'm doing right now is healthy

for me. It's not nonsense. And I have a date on the calendar that I've already agreed with my wife is when this ends. >> Right. >> Okay.

So it's both end. And if the clinical data coming out right now at very low doses, one milligram, 1.5 milligrams, it can be really enhancing it like cognitively. >> Right.

“>> Taking, going through a can of whatever all day, not good for you.”

>> Mm-hm. >> And highly, highly, highly addictive. >> Yeah. >> So both are true. And so maybe approaching him with, I actually believe you that this helps you stay focused.

>> And-- >> Oh, yeah, I believe him. >> I have a story in my chest that you're avoiding harder work. >> Mm-hm. >> And I'm willing to do the work if you are.

>> Mm-hm.

>> Or I'm going to go first.

I hope you'll join me. I'm glad that you love him. And I'm so proud of both of you from coming from really challenging backgrounds and deciding we're going to do something different. Like we're going to turn and stare down these old demons and we're going to unite together.

And move forward. In fact, I'm going to hook you up.

“I'm going to hook you up with a together app.”

Hang on to line here. I'm going to give you, I don't know, six months or a year of it for free. Whatever we code, we got it back there. But I want you and your husband to download the app on the--over the app store. And I want you all to begin using this and it's a way to each other to establish the trust

from the inside out in your marriage. Little tiny habits. My grab. It's going to be awesome. Hang on to line here.

So I'm proud of you for loving him and for making hard changes and for having this conversation. It's good. All right. Thanks for the call. Emily.

We'll be right back.

I'm always telling everybody how much I hate being online.

And I know that sounds ridiculous because I'm everywhere online. I'm on podcast, social media, YouTube, all that. And because of that, my face and my personal information is all over the internet. This is why I joined Delete Me. Just because you're not a podcaster or a YouTuber doesn't mean that your information isn't

also all over the internet. Everyone's information is everywhere. Your phone number, your home address, even old email accounts. It's all out there on data broker websites that buy and sell your personal information to the highest bidder.

I don't want to worry about scammers having personal details about me and my family. And I know you don't either. Delete me scans hundreds of data broker sites, find your personal information, and they remove it for you and they keep checking on you month after month.

Clean up the digital clutter and take back the parts of your life that you never gave

permission to share. Go to joindeleteme.com/deloney for 20% off an annual plan. That's joindeleteme.com/deloney. I want to tell you about an amazing new company called Shady Rays and they have joined forces with the Dr. John Deloni show and they have solved my sunglasses problem.

For two or three decades I've tried to find great sunglasses that don't cost a $1 million and that also work and look great. Listen, Shady Rays have solved everything. They make sunglasses for real life. They look amazing.

They're durable. They reduce glare and protect against UV rays and they're not insanely expensive. Here's the best part. Shady Rays is backed by a lost and broken protection guarantee. That means if you lose or break them, even the first day, Shady Rays will send you a brand

new pair. So now I wear my sunglasses when I'm fishing, when I'm hunting, when I'm driving, when I'm working in the yard, I wear them all the time and I wear them without fear. Try the sunglasses rated five stars by over 300,000 people. It's ShadyRays.com and use code Deloni for 40% off two or more pairs of polarized sunglasses.

That's the most Kentucky name I've heard in a while.

What's up Dale? I Dr. John, how are you? I'm good brother, how are you, man? I've been better. My question to you is how do I begin to heal, build better discernment and learn how to

trust again, especially trusting myself enough to be open and accept love from others after being cheated on and divorced. Yikes, man. Hold on. Yeah.

I recently just turned 30. How recent is this divorce? So, we were together for almost four years and married not even two and so from the

time of when I first found out to separation and divorce, it was a period of six months.

So my divorce was finalized right before Christmas, not goodness. And you found out that your wife was cheating on you? I asked her straight up, we had a little bit of, so to give a little bit of backstory and

“you can cut me off whenever you need me, you need to.”

But any great love story starts off by meeting at a bar. So we managed other while we were going to a bar that we both endured going to, gone to know one another and lo and behold, we were dating and then six or seven months later, I popped the question to her and she said yes and the following year we got married. Now to give even a bit more backstory or a back now is she was previously married, didn't

have the best childhood upbringing, I didn't have the best relationship with my dad. At the time came from a history of divorce families, but my mom and my dad, they've been together for almost 35 years. So but my ex spouse didn't have the same blessing if you will. And so she was previously married, she had her challenges, she ended up divorcing her spouse.

And so we got married, first year was amazing, we've had a little bit of normal tips here

in there as far as figuring out what we would like to do to build a better future for us and potentially start a family.

“I had lost my previous job at the time recently after we got married and I think that's”

when I started seeing the challenges and difficulties sort of arise, what challenges? And other difficulties. So I first straightened and making sure that we were both on the same page as far as what to do moving forward and just reassuring ourselves that everything is going to be okay and everything's going to work out if we're trusting each other and we're trusting God.

And so I was having a bit of challenges as far as not so easily mad, not so easily frustrated and felt a little bit of pressure just making sure to provide for myself and for my wife. Yeah but all that's right and good. Like, and I've let you, I wanted to hear you tell the story, do you struggle with over analyzing decisions before you make them?

I, I would tell my friends, my AD is going to full HD, so I over analyze quite a bit. Okay. And often that over analyzing comes from a place where people let you know loudly that you make wrong decisions regularly, is that fair? I don't give myself enough grace.

“Okay, is that your story or is that you co-opting somebody else's story grown up?”

No, I would, I would say that's my story. Okay. All right, so here's a deal. You meet somebody, and this is, I'm going to sound heartless here but I'm trying to clear the deck for you, okay?

it all away, okay?

It doesn't matter where you're met.

Doesn't matter how quickly or how long it took you to ask her to marry you. Doesn't matter that she spontaneously said yes. And then doesn't matter that you're got married a year later.

“What matters is, you all said I do, I'm in.”

And then right out of the gate, something bad happened, you lost your job. And the psychological research says, losing a job, your body internalizes that as a loss of a person. Like that's how heavy your body grieves job loss. It, it, it's such an insecure, uns, like unstable moment that your body overreacts.

So finding yourself more frustrated, more grumpy, that's completely normal. Trying to reconvene with a brand new wife and say, okay, we just got, we just got, we

just had, oh, got a flat tire right as we pulled out of the driveway of our new marriage.

That for, for, it should be a moment that brings you closer together, right? And you feeling the weight of, oh, this doesn't just affect me, this affects somebody else. That, that moment when you realize, oh, this squat bar is really heavy, that's a normal feeling. I'll even call it a good feeling.

I'm glad you got to feel the weight of, oh, I'm married. Now, I've got bigger responsibilities than just me. That's where you find out who you are and what you're made of and what we need to work on. None of this provides an excuse for somebody cheating on you. Oh, no, it, it, it gets, it, it gets worth it, not to jokingly to say the least.

But no, but eventually I found, I found a new employer and I, even recently, got promoted and told my question about that. Of course you do. But I don't, I don't have, I don't have the partner in my life anymore to celebrate that with.

That's right. And, um, over time, when I, even when I found the new job and when it calls me to travel

“outside of state to work, um, I think there was just some sort of change of wants and needs.”

So, I mean, I'm more of a homebody or, give me, give me here. How can I help you? Well, I want to learn how to begin to heal to trust myself and build a process of being open to accept love from other people because I don't trust anybody right now. Okay.

I don't trust anyone out front of my immediate family and close friends. Okay. I think that's right. You, you, I mean, what you're asking me is, hey, I just blew my knee out, playing basketball and you literally just got out of surgery and you're like, hey, I need to know what

to do. So, I can start playing basketball again and I'm like, bro, we got to slow it down. We go learn to walk again. And so your body telling you people aren't trustworthy right now. It has a very real lived experience of getting burned at a time when you needed somebody

the most. And that somebody happened to be a person who looked you in the eye in front of your family in front of the, the God, you worship and said, I'm here right or die forever. And they weren't. We, we have a psychology if people stab us in the back.

We do not have one when people stab us in the face and you got stabbed in the face. Yeah. And so I don't want you to go to war with your body right now. It's right. Don't jump back out on the basketball court yet, man.

You're still in a cast. What it will look like going forward is a truly being sat, truly grieving where you've been. And learning we say learning to trust again, that's not a psychological exercise.

“It's an action oriented exercise, which means you have to risk getting hurt again.”

There's not a, there's not a risk free way of moving forward. But we're going to do it wisely. We're going to go step by step. And when you're ready to quote unquote, get back out there, meet somebody. We're going to start slow.

We're going to start with coffee and we're going to begin to see, does this person text me back? Does the person call me back? Does this person show up when they say they're going to show up? When I explain, hey, I have been married before.

I never wanted to say I'm a divorce.

Hey, that's, I have to say that now.

Is that person going to run away and say, oh, you're too much or are they going to say, dude, I totally honor that? Yeah, the word I want you to keep in mind is practice.

“You have to re, you have to practice teaching your body that not everybody's evil.”

And it's just, it just takes time. But the underlying, the underlying foundation to your question, to me, sounds like you think that something's wrong with you. And I want to free you from that, dude, there's not something wrong with you. Yeah, I blame myself, I blame myself for what has happened.

Okay, and I question why why in the world did it happen to me? And what you're not allowing the possibility to exist is somebody just chose to hurt you.

And when we blame ourselves over and over, I think going to the mirror first is really

healthy. I think reflection is really healthy and you can probably look back and say, as a brand new married guy, I wish I'd said things differently, I wish I'd done things differently. That's all true and fair. I would challenge anybody to look back on their first year being married and be like a nail

that. I was awful at my first year. And second year, I was terrible at it. And so that kind of reflection is healthy. But it, it's like a false sense of security, that if I did all the bad things that caused

somebody to hurt me as bad as she did, then that means I can, I can somehow control

that never happening again.

And that's just, it's false. It's not true.

“You what I'm saying, yeah, you have to metabolize the truth that if you want to be truly”

known and seen and loved, that means risking that that person who fully sees you and definitely knows you can destroy you. That's marriage, dude. And that's what makes it so vulnerable and that's what makes it so incredible. Yeah, it's the vulnerability and it's, it's, and it's, I'm definitely afraid to go to the

entire process again because I believe in my whole heart that I had found the one when she and I made that covenant and it blew up in my face and it's just restarting again. Right that guy a letter, right 28 year old you a letter and let that guy off the hook. You're holding him accountable. You're beating that guy up.

What'd you miss? What did we miss? What do we, let him let him off the hook, man? Like I did the best he could with the information and the skill set and the tools that he had and somebody chose to hurt that guy real, real bad.

Can, can I ask you another question? Yeah.

“How do you begin to forgive the person who has wronged you like that?”

Forgiveness is for you, forgiveness is think of it as this, in this exercise. It's a cinder block that you're carrying around forgiveness is you choosing to say, I am no longer going to carry what you did to me anymore. I've even, I've even encouraged people to do that in real life for a while. Go buy a cinder block and put a piece of duct tape on it and put wife cheated on me.

wife slept with another guy what she was married to me and then literally carry that brick around for 20 minutes, 30 minutes until your arms burn and your hands can't hold it anymore. And then go somewhere in your backyard or out in a park somewhere and literally say, I'm setting you down.

And then, like, here's the reality, you can't stop the lightning bolt moments. There will be a weird time when you're having dinner by yourself on a business trip and it will flash into your mind her, a made up image in your head of her with that other guy. Every day.

Okay. The remote, you cannot stop those lightning bolts, but you get to choose whether you meditate on that or not. Whether you indulge that because that's your body trying to run a script that so freezes

it inside of you that it never happens again, but that's a false premise.

And you may have heard me say this, I do that so much, especially in the past, I've worked

now I got pretty good control over it. But it started with me literally walking around my house and I would just yell out, I'd be like, nope, I mean, it got to be a joke between me and my wife. I'm going to stop that line of thought because my body doesn't know fantasy from fiction from reality, and it will respond with shame, rage, anger to that movie that I'm allowing

to play over and over my mind. Yeah, yeah, I want to, it's like I want to watch a different movie at this point and there you go. Watching the rerun. Yes, I don't think your body is failing you.

It's trying to keep you safe.

It's trying to make sure that you play this over and over so this never happens again.

The sucky thing is it's a fault, it's false that that premise is false. You can meet somebody amazing, go all in again, do all of your due diligence, do all the counseling and that person could hurt you again.

“And what I will tell you is, I think the risk is worth it because a good or great connection”

with somebody, a good or great marriage has such outsized benefits on your life that I think the risk is worth it, but for you, that risk is going to come very slowly again. We're going to go slow this time to take that risk again and we're just going to be wise, go slow, be honest, honest, honest. And it is making some choices for the next 60 days, next 90 days, next 120 days.

When these stories pop up, when my rage pops up, I'm literally going to pick up a brick and set it down and say, I'm not carrying this today, I forgive you. I'm not carrying you, I'm not giving you space inside my chest any longer. And that won't magically make all of your anger evaporate, it won't magically make everything go away, but it is a conscious reminder to your body, I'm driving my own car now.

You don't have to take over with your automatic stories, your automatic replays, your automatic setting off the alarm systems, I'm driving and I'm hurt right now, so I'm going to go slow. And your body will go, okay, cool, you're driving, sweet. But it's a slow practice, your body's not failing, your wound is raw, all this is

right and good.

“And I get to begin to choose what I'm going to do, feel, think next, actually, you know what?”

I retract that, you can't choose how you feel, your body just does that. I can choose my emotional response to those feelings moving forward. And that's you re-gaining, control over your life. Hope that helps, for other hate you got burned like this, man. I'll walk with you, my man.

Call me anytime. We come back, a man asks how to cope with the guilt of choosing his family over his dream job. Let me write back. This show is sponsored by Better Help.

I've had some amazing mentors and friends in my life who are also amazing women.

My older sister, my mom, my wife, again, also amazing women. And one of the common themes I've heard from all of them is that between caring for all of the people in their lives and all of the other responsibilities and expectations that the whole world dumps on them, they are under incredible pressure every day from all angles.

And they're often encouraged to overlook their own emotional well-being to care for everybody else, to make sure everybody else is okay. Listen, therapy offers a space for women to learn how to create some sort of balance, set healthy boundaries, and support overall well-being for themselves. To do this, I recommend Better Help.

Better Help is an online therapy platform that matches you with a licensed therapist based on your goals and preferences. You can message your therapist and schedule sessions right in the platform and with over 30,000 therapists, they have the right person just for you.

And if the first therapist isn't the right fit, you can switch any time at no additional

cost. Listen, you're emotional well-being matters, fine support and therapy. Visit betterhelp.com/deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's Better Help, H-E-L-P, dot com/deloney. All right, let's go to Fort Worth, Texas and talk to Paul.

Let's up Paul. Hey, Dr. John, how you doing, man? I'm good, brother. What's up with you, man?

“I just want to put in front of the other, you know what I mean?”

I do. Well, I'm calling today because I wanted to learn more about how to deal with or better understand some pretty severe feelings of guilt I'm having about essentially missing my last job pretty desperately. Okay, tell me about it.

Okay, so about four and a half years ago, I got hired into what I would describe this my dream job. The reason I got into the field that I started getting into, and it was a job that brought

some. Dude, pride is not necessary, I mean, like an extreme of it, yes. Okay. But being proud of what you're doing is not a sin. It's good thing.

Okay. But I mean, it was kind of job that, you know, when I found out I got hired, it was called my wife with tears in my eyes, like a big baby, and it was the whole thing. So started it, and I knew this put the schedule was going to be like going in. And for the first six months, it was like, yeah, I'm doing the one I'm supposed to do.

This feels good, like myself confidence has never been hired.

But the schedule is kind of non-ideal, and then the next six months go by and it gets harder. And essentially, I get about two, two years in and it just starts weighing on me. You know, I got to the point where even as much as I loved the work, as much as I loved the job and the flying, I just got to the point where like, I just missed my family.

You know, my wife and that time, one son. And so I talked to my wife, and you know, we knew we wanted to have another child who came last October, and we made the decision, which was probably the hardest and easiest decision

“for my wife, which is the best thing I can do is leave my dream job and prioritize my”

family. And in the moment, you know, right after we made that decision, it felt really, it felt really good. You know, if I felt like I could look myself in the mirror and describe myself as the kind

of guy that puts his family first, and they've always come first in my life.

But you know, the first month settling into a new role, I felt pretty listless, and I felt a lot of, I don't want to say anxiety, but it was almost a certain kind of panic that didn't. Or I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing anymore. What was your dream job?

What were you doing? I was an aerial firefighter. There you go. All right. I was going to say first responder of some sort.

Okay, yeah, yeah, it looked, loved it man. The whole reason I started flying, and anyway, so, you know, then two roles by and nothing

“changed, and I'm kind of chalking it up to just, you know, hey, look, this was an important”

job, and I missed it. But long story short, you know, I'm about 18 months removed from it, and those feelings are still there in the intensity of those feelings hasn't changed. And the missing the job, I, that's not what's difficult to cope with. What I'm finding difficult to cope with is when I find myself illuminating on my old job,

and I can explain some specific behaviors that I'm doing that are probably beyond something that's healthy for an old job, but, you know, it's associated with tremendous feelings of guilt, because the reason that I left was to prioritize my family. And I want to be super clear, if I roll the tape back a thousand times, a thousand times out of a thousand, I make the same decision.

Okay, so, let me jump in. So my friend Becky Kennedy, she's a psychologist out of New York. She reframed guilt for me, and it's completely transformed how I see it and experience it and call it out, okay? Okay.

So, she said what often masquerades is guilt is because something completely different. What is the, a good feeling, a biologically, a relationally, whatever word you want to attach to it, it's a good feeling when you violate your own values.

“I believe you that you did not violate your own values here.”

And so, if we go down that thought experiment, what usually it means that I am either A, taking somebody else's feelings and trying to hold them and manage them for them, or I'm not being honest with myself about the choices I can make moving forward. Okay. And so here's a couple of, I'm going to put my story on to yours, okay?

And you feel free to tell me if I'm wrong, okay? Okay. I have had a bad habit over my life of putting my identity in a title. Oh. Yeah.

In my wife and I joke, when I was the chief student of fairs officer, when I was

the dean of students of a billion dollar college, she'll say, I liked telling people

that, my husband is this job, not he's a radio personality, my dad, my husband's a podcaster, right?

Like I feel that so much, right? And so it's getting like if your identity is ever in a title, your identity is very, very fragile. And my challenge to you is, and this is hard because it's got some really powerful implications for what you do next.

“What is the purpose of what your identity has to be attached to a purpose?”

Yeah. And then you can do that thing anywhere. So if I look back on the thread of my life, when I was at Burger King as a 16 year old, through a 20 year old, I worked at Burger King forever, all the way to, when I was the high school coach all the way to one, I was a dean of students all the way to the job

I have now, if I pull the thread all the way back, I can see my purpose in my life has always

been to make a connection with somebody in a very short amount of time and let them know that I see you and I'm glad you're here. Yeah. And that is my purpose. There will come a day when YouTube doesn't exist anymore, or podcasting goes away, right?

Sure. Or when AI can take my, make me and I'm gone, like overnight, right? That will happen. That will come. And if I've put my identity in being famous, if I put my identity in having a show, I will

either a, miss the life of my wife and my kids and the hunting seasons and the winter and the summer. All the beauty around me, hiding away for what used to be or I will chase the thing until the end of the earth and I'll find myself trying to get clicks and saying insane crazy things and trying to keep myself relevant and I'll find myself further and further away

from the guy that I have to look at in the mirror every day. Yeah, and, and I, I think I find myself doing some of those things like, um, for example, I'm still paying for a Patreon subscription to an industry specific, like a wild landpier newsletter. And that's the same thing as you still following an ex on Facebook, even though you're

married. Dude, okay. So the whole reason I, I wanted, I decided I probably should reach out to somebody about it and I wanted to talk to you about it is because I had a thought a couple of

months ago that was, um, kind of made me chuckle at first, but then turned kind of scary,

which is that, like, what I'm doing, like, following my old job on social media and, like, tracking people down from videos and that I want to see and stuff, it almost feels like like a form of infidelity or something. You're cheating on yourself, uh, you're cheating on yourself and dude, I, I spent 20 years in a career track.

I knew every student of fairs, law, I kept up with all the legal proceedings. I kept up with all of the fights. I kept up with all the funding issues of education and the Department of Health, all of it. Yeah.

And somebody asked me the other day a question about some higher education law. And I didn't know the answer and I actually smiled because I had to make a clean break. That's not my world anymore. Yeah.

And any, any energy I spend trying to prop that world up is me trying to prop up an old ego. Yeah. And, but here's the hard part about this.

“You have to ask yourself, what was it about that job?”

Because by the way, I reject the phrase dream job. Okay. Like, because it, it's like saying, I met the one, now you didn't, you met somebody

amazing that you decided I'm going to put all my cards on the table and hopefully

she did too. Okay. Right. And so you had an amazing job. Yeah.

This thing to you talk, it sounds like you had a ton, you had a special skill. You had a ton of purpose, right? You got to see and help people every day, see and help situations every day. Your guy that goes into challenging situations and helps others. Right.

Yeah. That's who you are. My last job performance at the University I was before I took this job, I had one

“needs improvement line on my job, I think knew what it was, what's that?”

You have to stop running into burning buildings and I told my boss, I was like, that's what I love and it goes, he goes, I know, but now you're over those people, you're supervising those people, you got to let them do their job and I was like, ah, sucks. But I had to go back to what's my purpose, my purpose is to help hurting people. And now, if I can use my skill set and my training and whatever and let 10 people go help

that many hurting people, I'm actually multiplying what my purpose is, but I got to get over my ego and my identity. Yeah. Yeah. And also, I have to find new adventures for myself.

Well, yeah, that's something that I've kind of struggled with too because I, I think

in y'all a lot of ego and I just I liked.

And that's not bad. That's not bad. Yeah. It's a, it's a, it's a cool buy product, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

“I talked to my mom about it a little bit and in case you need to just find a different”

way to, you know, scratch that edge and fill that need or, you know, whatever we got to do with it. I would go deeper than scratching an edge, it's deeper than that. Where are you showing up in your local community for people who need your help? Yeah.

It can be hard to hear.

It could be joining a crisis team like I did, like I'm going to go every once in a while

on a call out, like, where are you showing up? And here's the beauty of it. Here's how you know it's a true identity, nobody else knows you're doing it. Yeah. It's not not a job description.

It's not on a, I don't, I don't flash everything around. I don't have the security of having a badge in my backpack, but my neighbors know that I show up. Right.

“Yeah, and, and the truth is I'm really not, and I think part of that, well, okay, so”

another part of this is because I, I stopped doing the job to prioritize my family. I now almost feel a similar level of guilt if I try to do something that isn't spending time with my family when I'm home, you know what I mean, like, even if I wanted to jump for an hour and a half. But that's not guilt, that's, that's, um, trying to think of the, of the word, um, let me put

it this way. The greatest gift you can give your wife and your children and your family is to be whole, yeah. And so taking care of your being a good steward of your body is a true blessing for your family, and so going to the gym is not a violation of your core values.

It is you taking a, held your kids for three, yeah, my oldest son is for, and, uh, you're taking his four year old, but dad, I want you here and you're shoving it in your own chest and you're trying to manage it, yeah. Let him be forward, dude, how awesome is it that your four year old misses their dad? That's amazing.

“So go do the hour work you need to do, so you show up and be fully sturdy and present”

when you're with him. You getting to what's the, what was I put on earth to do? And for you, it's, I was put on earth to be a good father and a good husband and I was put on earth to go into hard situations when other people won't or can't. So now your job is to find situations where you can be a, like, a value in that way.

Yeah, I, that's definitely the, there's, there's a, that cheap hole somewhere in my hand. And I, I think that, uh, I'm going to put some on you that's not fair because I don't know if I'm right, but I'm wondering if what you think is guilt is actually shame. Maybe, I've got a skill set and I've got a calling and I've got a person said my chest and I'm not doing it because I want a four year old to be happy with me.

I don't know if it's because of the four year old part, but there is definitely like a, uh, survivors, remorces, like the wrong word, but like, I'm, like, I'm wasting time.

I could be doing something like, you know, I basically, I find myself in a job now where,

on paper, great job, nobody would ever complain about the job, but I'm just managing and flying a jet for a company and I'm just moving wealthy people from point A to point B and it's just totally devoid of meaning and there is almost a shame of like, hey, you work really hard and you develop this certain skill and you're doing nothing with it. You're not putting it to good use, you know, and, um, but is that true?

Uh, well, I'm not doing the work anymore. Yeah, but, I mean, I mean, I guess there's 50 ways to look at it. Sure. But, um, if you take care of a business owner and get him and his family or her, her family where they need to be safely, get him back home in a timely manner, that they've got

more time to invest in their team and their people. Oh, that's true. That's true. It's good work. Yeah.

That's good point. Yeah. And also, just because this was the next job doesn't mean this is your forever job, too. Like you're not stuck doing this thing forever. It might be for A season and that might mean I'm going to retool right now.

So I went back to grad school. I'm going to do this job for this season and get really trained up and being a good mental health practitioner so that one day I can do another thing that I think will contribute even more and I'm going to contribute while I'm doing my job, I'm going to go all in on it and

Right.

And who knew, I had no idea what was going to be this.

But my challenge to you is get to the bottom of that hole in the middle of your chest and

“then ask yourself specifically, what could I start doing now in this context in this season?”

That will get me where I want to be in one year, two years and five years. And I think the action of movement, of going forward, of taking steps towards something, not just constantly trying to live your life looking at the movie mirror, I think that changes everything for you. And you've got to cut off the pornography.

You've got to stop looking at the old images, the old pictures, subscribing to the old newsletters. That season in your life doesn't exist anymore. It's over. It's appeared at the end.

Unfollow her. And go fully in and moving forward wherever you are. Dude. I feel like I'm talking to the mirror here, I've been where you're at and it's haunting. But man, I'll tell you there's peace on the other side when you unhook your identity from

a job title and you hook it to a purpose.

“You can do that purpose anywhere for money, for free, for help in lights, behind closed doors.”

And when you do that, you live a very fulfilled life. You're awesome, brother. Thanks for your service and thanks for being a good dad and a good husband who wants to do this thing, right? If you ever come over to my house, you're going to find a whole bunch of cool stuff.

Music and guitar stuff, hunting gear, my kids have cool stuff, but listen, you're also going to find one main theme. My family loves cozy earth. We love their sheets, put pajamas, blankets, towels, all of it, they've taken over our house.

Why?

Because cozy earth gear is incredible, it's comfortable and it's built to last.

Like take the towels, for instance, when you wash the towels a couple of times, they don't just turn into an old rag. They're still amazing towels and getting into my bed with cozy earth sheets just makes me smile and seeing my wife and my daughter wearing their pajamas sets, that lightens

“my life too because they're so comfortable and they offer a 10-year warranty so there's”

no risk to filling your house with cozy earth gear. Try it for yourself. You're going to love it. Go to cozyEarth.com/deloney and use code Deloney and you'll save up to 20% off your entire order.

That's cozy, COZY. cozyEarth.com/deloney with code Deloney. Bring cozyEarth into your home, trust me, you're going to love it. All right, Kelly, some cool happened. What is it?

All right. So this email is from Kim in Ridgefield, Connecticut and she writes. Last year I watched the United States of anxiety series and decided to follow the steps given to the participants. I decided to journal for 90 days to see if it made a difference in how I approached anxiety.

Well, it became a productive habit and today is day 400 and 400. Wow. That's awesome. Taking those steps helped me recognize some hidden roots from my past, which was hard but healing.

I shared my journey with others at a recent blog post, which led to some great conversations with friends about things we're all going through but that nobody talks about. So thank you for the work you and your team do to help us move forward without shame and to let us know the next best step. That's awesome.

Charlotte, is your name? Yes, Kim. Kim. High five, Kim. Good for you.

That's amazing. That's awesome. Yeah. And we'll put in the show notes. I'll put the first episode of the two United States of anxiety.

The links to those. Yeah. And then after you watch what episode, you know, it'll take you to the next but that way if anybody wants to go back and watch those, they're fantastic. That'd be very cool.

Yeah, that was awesome. The United States of anxiety was a series I did with somebody who called in. I flew out and met with her and just walked alongside her for 90 days as she wrestled with getting to the bottom of Wiserbody, sitting off all these alarms.

It was a pretty magical journey and it was really amazing to watch her kind of come

a lot. Don't forget to check out that series, we'll put the links in the show notes. Love you guys, bye.