My Wife and I Are Sexually Mismatched

How do I come to terms knowing that

“of a my desire is trying to missy or unlikely to be met with my wife?”

>> So what degree is she willing to say? >> Okay, here's the world that must be true for that to happen.

Versus that will never happen, this conversation's over.

[MUSIC] >> Hey, what's going on, this is John with the Dr. John Deloni show. Come to you from Nashville, Tennessee, a rainy Nashville, Tennessee, glad y'all are here. Talking about your marriages, your mental and emotional health,

whatever you've got going on in your life, figuring out what's the next right move for us. All right, let's go to Kansas City and talk to Nathan. Hey, Nathan, what's up, man? >> Hey, Dr. John, how are you? >> I'm good, man, what's up with you?

>> Oh, just appreciate the opportunity to speak with you and taking the time to,

yeah, challenge me a little bit.

Listing for a long time and appreciate all you've done to help people out. >> I appreciate them, man, thank you so much. What's going on with you, man? >> Yeah, well, my question really is about just how do I come to terms,

“knowing that of a my desires for intimacy or unlikely to be met with my wife?”

>> This is Ari's for intimacy, talking about your sex life? >> Yeah. >> So, pay me a picture of that. >> Yep. Well, we've been married in 17 years.

We've got two kids. We're both in our mid to late 40s. And, you know, there's just things that haven't been a part of our sex life really throughout our entire relationship. And, you know, a lot of things kind of over time have gotten in the way of that, whether it be, you know, we had kids very early on in our marriage and didn't have a lot of time.

Just the two of us and we're both busy people and, you know, time is a challenge when you've got two teenagers and all those sort of things. And so, got to a point last summer where we got a really honest conversation. I shared, you know, kind of some things that I was really missing in that area. And she was honest about how she felt about some of those things. And so, kind of just became pretty obvious that some of the things that I was looking for were unlikely to happen.

And to be clear, these aren't, you know, wild sort of things.

“They're pretty run of the nail honestly, I think, for most people.”

But, yep. As much as you're comfortable with, give me some ideas. Well, what is it in your life? I mean, your mind when you look back on the decade and a half or you'll probably date it before you get married. So, the last two decades.

And you've built this world with this person. But what's been missing? Yeah. Well, I think it really comes down to just, there's just not as much excitement or adventure in that part of life. And I think I've come to a better understanding and talking with her, understanding maybe why that's the case.

What did she say about that? What did she say about that? She eventually, like, shared that there's some past history that I was unaware of. Prior to me that impacted her, you know, approach the things. In addition to just where she's at.

It has her drive and those sort of things were just kind of mismatched in that area. So, I mean, frequency was a part of the equation. But beyond that, just, you know, it was pretty much the same every single time. And, you know, I wanted something with a little more variety, a little more adventure. Sure. And, and is she an abuse survivor or an assault survivor?

Something about effect. She was, she had never shared it with anyone.

And it was very emotional for both of us, obviously. And so, and I encourage her to, you know, reach out, potentially, and talk to someone about that. But she didn't feel like she was at a point where she was ready to do that yet. Okay. So, let me say this. I don't think you're a bad guy, and I don't think you're crazy, okay?

Yeah. Yeah. And, I don't think she's a bad person, and I don't think she's crazy either. I guess, I guess, backing out of this thing, because it, because what happens really quickly these kind of conversations is they get about. I need you to be a certain way, or I need you to do these things, right? It gets really granular really fast. We never do this particular act, or we never try this particular position, or you never do these two or three things.

And that ends up dominating the conversation, backing out of this thing all the way, and asking questions about what's the context with which you want to have adventure, have play.

And, to what degree is she willing to say, okay, here's the world that must be true for that to happen.

Versus, that will never happen. I'm not, I'm not willing to invest in you in that way.

I'm not willing to invest in us in that way. And this conversation is over, right? Yeah, so paint me a picture of what that looks like. Because what I hear often is our lives are super busy, and our lives are super busy. We've got tons of stuff going on, and things get really routine, and I over-dramatize it when I say people just start to feel dead in their own skin.

And often, the bedroom is the last place for that, where, like, let's try to reclaim all of that aliveness right there. And somebody else says, hey, I'm at the end of the day, and I have to choose between that and sleep and sleep's going to win every time. And so what does it look like to build a world where we prioritize us first, play first, context first, and then suddenly, you know, I would love to help around the house. I would love to give you margin in space.

“I know I'm tired over here too, but if that helps you, you have some freedom and some space to then begin to build adventure, right?”

Or begin to go see a counselor to deal with some past traumas. Like, you see what I'm saying? You build a context where this thing can actually happen. Right, right? Is that possible?

Or do you feel like that door shut?

No, well, I think it's a combination because through our conversation that we had, she communicated to me some things basically.

I basically was the only one that ever initiated anything. And she basically said, you know, that gives me anxiety because it's, I, you know, not interested at that time, the new or upset about it and that sort of thing. And so, to basically said, like, I just, it makes me anxious when you initiate, I said, okay. I'm willing to, to step back from that, but you haven't initiated in a really long time. So, if I step away from that, then I'm worried that nothing's ever going to happen.

And so, she said, well, I can, I can take on that, you know, and be willing to do that.

“And so, that became, we kind of switched roles in that, honestly.”

And I was trying to respect what, you know, she wanted to do there. And that's had some real positive things that have come from that over the last few months. But then there were some other things that I communicated that I had interest in. An example would be like, I was interested in her wearing lingerie. She said, no, I'm not willing to do that.

And so, there were certain things that she was like drew a very clear line on. And so, it's been a combination. And I think we've had the really positive direction with the changes that we've made. So, I'm really more focused on, like, I'm not trying to change her or have her do things that she's not comfortable doing. I'm trying to figure out what to do with my desire when it's not going to happen if that makes sense.

Sure, 100%. So, let's address this. And I just looked us up to make sure I was right on it.

“And I think I talked about this on another episode recently that hasn't come out yet.”

But researchers have noted two different types of desire.

One is, they call it spontaneous desire, which is the nerd word, which is basically,

I'm being ridiculous here, but you can walk through your bathroom and see an old bra on the trash. And be like, oh, I would right now. That's what it takes for you, right? Or you can be driving home and have a thought pop into your head about one time and be like, I'm ready to rock on it all right now.

Like, if she was in the car, I'd pull the car over. Right? And that spontaneous desire is what Hollywood has sold us for our whole lives that that means things are good. That's the way it should be. And if one or both of you don't have spontaneous desire, what it means is your relationship has, quote, unquote, run its course. And that's nonsense.

Because there's another type of desire, which is responsive desire, it's slow. And it builds, right? It is, you all are watching a TV show. And you are holding hands and your hand lands on her leg and you don't move it and she doesn't move it. Response of desire is, I don't feel like doing it right this second, but I know when we get into it, I'm going to be glad that we're here.

Right? Right? And both of those are valid. They're just not one better than the other. They're both fantastic. It's just their different. And so most of the time somebody walks around either thinking they're broken or their spouse or partners broken. Instead of saying, no, it's just different.

And F250 is never going to be as fast off a line as Maserati is.

That doesn't mean it's a broken car or it's just different. That's awesome. Great. Cool. That just needs a slower ramp up time before it stops speed. Great. That the, when somebody says, you make me anxious or your approach makes me anxious. My concern there is is just ending that is a recipe for the anxiety to magnify itself.

“Or another way to say that it's less nerdy is you have to go through that anxiety.”

So I would be interested in knowing what is it about you, your approach that makes her feel anxious and shut down. All right. In exploring are there ways I can, are there text messages I can send you? Are there phone calls I can make? Are there. Like the one researcher calls it chore play? Are there piles of folded clothes that are put away?

That send you the message I'm in. All right. All right. And instead of saying, oh, I get anxious about this. Let's just not never do that again.

Because by the way, her, her, the pressure for her to always come up with the plan, come up with the idea, come up with initiation.

That will become a burden and anxiety ridden over time too. Right. So circling back and asking with, not with any accusation, just with curiosity, not judgment. Hey, what is it about my approach? What is it, when I look at you and say, I want to be with you. What is it about that that sets your body's alarms off?

Right. Because that's the point that we need to heal. Yeah. And then there are things like, what is it about? I always want to get to the thing beneath the thing. Okay. So I want you to wear a lingerie.

Never going to happen. Okay. Instead of just throwing my hands up and going, asking that next question, I'm curious. Tell me about that. And it might be I'm uncomfortable in my own body. I don't think I look sexy, so I don't want to put that stuff on.

It might be, I feel objectified when I do that. It might be in her case. This is an old past thing that happened one time and it's lodged in there. And it will shut down the whole night. Like, I want to get to the thing beneath the thing.

Mm-hmm. And so if somebody's like, hey, I want to try it.

“Because it's because it works in the other way too, right?”

What is it about this thing? I don't understand it. I feel uncomfortable and lingerie. What is it about me and lingerie that you would find compelling? I can find awesome. Tell me about that. Mm-hmm.

And you being able to say, it feels different. It feels naughty. It feels like something that doesn't, it feels special. Like whatever that, or you look hot. Like being able to get to the thing beneath the thing is often where that connection is found. Right.

The concerns I have are when people say shut down, absolutely not. And there will come, there will become specific acts or things. Like, I'm not doing that. Okay, cool. There does come a point when you say, I'm going to stop beating my head against the wall.

I'll always be interested in, I'll always desire.

Mm-hmm. And that door shut, because I'm going to respect that person. And then I'm going to go move on with my life. Right? Mm-hmm.

But I love to ask the curiosity questions. Go ahead. Yeah.

“Do you have suggestions as far as what to do with the, what, what can I do if anything?”

Maybe there's nothing. But when I know that that type of desire is just probably not going to happen, how do I, I guess, come to a place of peace with that to just say, okay, I just have to accept that that's just not going to be part of this. Um, I don't know if, if making peace with it is really the objective out of the gate.

I think the objective is, I'm going to stop imaginary conversations for the takeoff. Mm-hmm. I'm going to stop the, um, stories I make up. Yeah. Right?

Mm-hmm. About why she won't. And I would do anything she ever asked me to do. And she never has. And then 17 year and suddenly, man, your body's at war.

Right? Right? And you have an anxious woman who's got a traumatic history who's coming out of the, out of the shower, nervously. And you are, she's met with a full energy of a whole ecosystem of stories you've made up.

Right? So some of that is I'm just going to stop the story before it happens. Mm-hmm. I'm going to stop meditating on what she won't do. Mm-hmm.

And also make peace with, I guess, that you're not crazy for wanting your wife to be a lunge or I do. That makes you a normal human. Right? And also not landing on this as forever. This will always be this way.

Partridge and a pear tree, right? Right?

Is there a place we can meet in the middle here?

Right? Right?

“And is there a way that you ask, hey, how do you feel most beautiful when we're together?”

How do you feel most celebrated and we're together? And let her answer some of those questions for you. Mm-hmm. And what she's given you is a roadmap. I'll send you the questions for humans intimacy deck, okay?

Okay? I'll be able to give to you. And it's a magic power those have, which is the card asked the question not me. Mm-hmm. Right?

Another funny thing, there's a whole backstory to this. Something that countless couples have told me they've used and it's been really successful. I call it the John Deloni erotic envelope system. Have you heard me talk about that? I think so, yeah, I think so.

But it's me, it's me just making a joke. But it's get an envelope and you put in five things you would like to try. And she puts in five things she would like to try. And you'll commit to either A, given it the old college try, or B, being curious about what is it about this thing?

Mm-hmm.

“And often the conversation around those cards is equally as intimate as the actual doing of the thing on the card.”

Right? Thanks for a call, brother. I appreciate it. And I mean, she wants to ever call. I love to talk to her if y'all ever want to call in together.

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That's join. J-O-I-N. Joindeleteme.com/deloney. I've got a couple on the line from Los Angeles, California. Let me bring on Ashley first.

Hey, Ashley. Hey, Dr. John, how are you? I'm doing all right. Let me bring on Joe. Hey, Joe.

How about you, John? Excellent. I'm glad you all are here today. Are you on the same house right now? Are you all at different places?

More in different places. Okay. Cool. Who wrote into the show? I did.

You did. All right.

So do you want to go first?

Sure. Awesome. All right. Let it rip. What's going on?

Okay. So I called, regarding, I called asking how to rebuild trust in our relationship. We've been together for about six months.

I'm about 17 weeks pregnant.

One little thing, huh? Yeah. One little thing. So we'll turn that in at the beginning. But how do we build trust after I betrayed?

Joe, by deleting Instagram messages. After we had promised to be open on a truthful about specific communication with specific people. I deleted the messages and did not tell him about them. And there's a little bit more backstory there, which I'm sure Joe would get into. But that's kind of the sort.

So you all have been together just for a minute. And it sounds like you've got pregnant really early.

“And are you all trying to stay together romantically?”

Yes. Okay. And already in this short period of time, you all made some agreements on. How are we going to communicate with people from our past I'm assuming? Yeah.

And I'll let Joe step into. Yeah. Yeah. So we both valued trust more than anything. You know, during our first few months of dating.

And we both made that clear.

And I made that that trust was the most important thing to me.

And it was a deal breaker because rebuilding trust is very difficult. And the rebuilding process can even cause more damage. Especially if you go through conflict resolution, which we tried. And there were specific promises where. Actually, reaffirmed.

“You know, we're going to be honest transparent.”

And I've been moving forward. I'm going to show you through my action. And we made a specific promise about these two specific people. Girl who was communicating with me from the past and then guy was communicating with her. And we said, we'll just let each other know if, you know, they ever reach out.

And instead of fulfilling like that promise, which was connection with conflict resolution. She did the exact opposite. And when I even asked her about it, or I told her, oh, I received a sheet, didn't tell me anything. And just kept deleting of. And then she only came clean.

And she lied when I, because everybody else deleted anything. You know, as a messenger, it was just no, no, no. But then only came clean until the truth. One of my, when I mentioned Instagram data.

Um, so once you finally came clean, it wasn't even a voluntary.

It was, I had to like. Kind of have. Document server. Yeah. For lack with our word, evidence.

So tell me about your history with infidelity with people cheating on you. Yeah. So, uh, we both kind of bonded at the beginning. Yeah. You know, on our first date immediately because our access both betrayed us.

Okay. And we're, our parents are both divorced. And we both agreed that we didn't want her. We both valued that we didn't want our children to grow up in a divorce household. Okay.

So, based off our past experiences and my, sort, my ex. She kind of did the same thing. Uh, this is a lot of trickle truth thing or future faking, you know, saying I'm going to do all these things. But then it's just a, a repeat pattern that just called so much damage. Um, and it was a lot of secrecy, you know, with the phone and social media app.

So, all of this is more complicated, right? If, if you all had just met each other, we're dating for six months. This happened. And you've got this value like this, a big neon sign for you. Right.

“And also you have a lived experience multiple times, right?”

So, childhood you grew up in. This has happened to you personally. So, your body's highly attuned. It's alarm system is, is, is got a hair trigger and a loud alarm on it. Um, this would be a pretty easy.

All right. Let's go our separate ways. But you'll have this kid now. Right. And, um, I kind of, it was a deal breaker for me because once there's no trust, that's, that's it.

And then we may be specific promises to reinforce that. I got that. It happened. It happened though. Yeah.

And then once the stakes got higher, the secrecy got higher as well. Sure.

Sure. And so, that happened.

“Before we move further at all, the most important question I can ask you, Joe, is, are you interested in rebuilding trust here?”

I am.

Uh, actually, I, I truly love her and I want what's best.

Okay. Or, or. So, I want you to stop using words like deal breaker. Okay. 'Cause, A, it's not true.

It didn't break the deal. And B, it's a constant sort of damages over your relationship. I love you. I'm all in. We have a kid together.

I see a future forever.

But if this thing, and it makes it hard to operate in that world.

Now, I'm not saying you don't, you whole people accountable that you don't have standards that you don't have. Uh, responsibilities to Joe. I was not saying it all. But it's, it's this idea that you're my person. And I'm going to do what I can to make this work.

And when you violate that, either A, I'm not the courage to say, okay, I'm out. Or, I'm going to have the courage to say, this broke my heart, this hurts. And especially you knew this one, right? It's not like, it's not like she did something she's yelled at.

You or something and didn't know you come from a yelling household.

“Like, this one was a, like a big ton violation, right?”

And, um, so this one hurts deep. And can you be honest about how you feel about it? Can you be honest about the stories you're making up about her? And are you willing to give her a path back? Yes, I'm willing to give her a path back.

I think we should both go to a couple of counseling. Uh, well, and I'm a mental health guy. But what, what will that solve for you right now? Uh, ways to rebuild trust. Because I'm not giving them to you.

And you, you sound like somebody who over intellectualizes some of these challenges. You have big words, you've got special words, you've got Instagram, you were like, I don't want to over intellectualize this six months in. You'll already are on your third relationship. The first one is you meet, you like each other, you're attracted to each other.

Y'all hook up. The second new relationship is, oh, God, we're going to be parents. And the third one is you, she blew it up. And we're going to rebuild a third one.

And by the way, this will be that if you all want to have a lasting, awesome, amazing marriage,

which is my hope for both of you. Um, y'all will be rebuilding your marriage over and over and over again. And that becomes part of the fun and part of the adventure. But over intellectualizing it and over-therapizing it isn't super helpful right now. You get what I'm saying?

Yeah, um, and I, like, it sounds great all in all in theory. But I mean, you can only take conjure up for punch and if there's no actual change, that's what I'm concerned about. 100 million percent. But A, you have to put a path back.

“And then you have to open your hands and let her try to walk that path.”

In the sucky part of this for you, brother, is I'm going to put a path down. Which if you are my buddy and we have a nachos and you're like, what should I say? I would say we're both going to get flip phones. We're going to delete Instagram off our phones and we're going to be honest about like sharing data with each other. Because for you, this is such a core pain point that you're going to have to go to,

you're going to have to teach your nervous system over time that she's safe. And Ashley is to be a grown woman and say, I do or do not want to walk that path. Yeah, I've told him repeatedly that I'm, I'm all in committed committed to doing whatever it takes to rebuild. I've suggested deleting the activating the social media and one thing that I was kind of surprised that his response to me saying that was that it's to him.

It seems like well, that's just removing like that's like walking away from the problem. Almost, I think was something to the effect of what he had said that wasn't his words verbatim. So it almost seemed like he wanted me to like be tested and to like prove that I could do the things that I've said I would do to show him. If someone had reached out, if it happened, when I would rather just remove the underlying cause altogether. So Joe, I'm hearing her say, I'll walk whatever path this guy puts in front of me. I love him.

We're going to be co-parents of the rest of our lives. And so let's make this thing work romantically.

Uh, some sort of promises and then it just wasn't with one guy that never deleted messages with another guy.

And then maybe even a third.

“So it's just if promises just keep getting broken and I hear the same thing over and over.”

But then there's no actual action to that aligns with those promises. It just seals. Okay. I don't know what to do. Okay. So I'll cut through and give it to you. You give her a seven day path back to trust.

For seven days, I'm going to ask this of you. Are you in? And then she is to say, I'm in. And when you give her that path, you're going to be committed to not bringing up old stuff and putting ace aces in your pocket. So you can play them at any time you feel less than small or otherwise uncomfortable. And as she walks the path, then after seven days, you're going to have a breakfast,

Arty on the calendar and you're going to go out and you're going to talk about, Here's how I feel. How do you feel? Here's some stories I made up this week. Here's some stories she made up this week. And then we're going to create a new path together for the next seven days, the next 14 days. And then you're going to have to have the courage to have your or what statement.

I'll tell you that it sounds. I mean, it sounds cool. I guess that's not the right word, but it sounds like tough, cool, noble, whatever words you want to throw in there. That she needs to actually keep all the alcohol in the house and just prove she won't drink it. But if she's telling you right now, it's best to not have alcohol in the house.

“I would honor that and say, oh, that's how much she loves me.”

That's how hard she's trying. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And then if it's, I mean, Instagram won't be social media. I won't be deleted for life. But then one why?

Is it that important to you? Is that more important than your marriage and then being good co-parents together? Creating a new life together?

Our relationship and our baby boys, the most important.

So let's don't say things like this isn't going to be this way forever. That's like your house is burned down and you're like, well, no house can ever be as good as the old house. We can't rebuild something new that's ever going to be and you're already limiting the possibility of what could be. And I'll be honest. You're probably right. And so we will get to a day potentially when you say, okay, I'm like, I want to tell you that I love you

and you've been walking this path and I'm recognizing that I feel safe with you. I feel trust with you. And I'm going to have to put my last foot back in the boat and risk again, risk you hurting me again. And so for the next three months, I want all the codes to your social media stuff if you get that back on your phone. And she might say, dude, I feel so free. I don't want any of this nonsense. I'm not feeling more.

But she might say, okay, cool, I'm back or I have to have it for work or whatever. And we're going to bathe you step our way through that one. Tell me where that's hard. No, all of it's hard. Tell me where that doesn't ring true.

“And I think that that could definitely be a great way to rebuild trust.”

I mean, with the Instagram, there's the high risk or concern of secrecy. But then on the flip side, it's also a way that we kind of laugh because we share things. So maybe part of the creativity here is coming up with new ways to share things that are in real life that are in person. If a couple's laughter enjoys reduced to memes of animals falling off tree limbs or whatever. Like, I would say that's a pretty thin relationship.

I agree. And so what does it look like to be creative and so, okay, this connectivity, this point of connection we used to have. We're we're removing it right now. It's the same conversation with couples used to drink together.

They always go to happy hour together every Friday.

But that doesn't mean we don't really work hard, okay, now we're going to take dance lessons.

“Now we're going to go learn to fish together.”

So we're going to go bowling or something ridiculous. But now the creativity, the fun, the play, the excitement is, let's find new stuff to connect over. I just hear an air of pessimism over you, and I either want you to say, the air is too poisonous.

I'm never going to trust it again or I want you to crack the door for six months into somebody you barely know that suddenly you're connected to for life.

Because I'll make an agreement together. I'm going to choose, and this is a hard daily choice, I'm going to choose to imagine this thing works out better than either of us could have ever dreamed. I'm going to choose to put in the work, and that means not relying on feelings. Feelings are a great data point, but they're not a, they're not a good GPS system. I'm going to put in the work so that this kid never lives in the mess that I lived in.

And some of that is reverts engineering and saying, "What do we want our house to feel like when we walk in the door?" How can I love you today? Do we have a regularly scheduled time when we meet and dream about what we want our life to look like? And then we're honest about doing those action steps moving forward.

“But the truth is that she hurts you really bad, and it sounds like she said she's sorry, and she's willing to walk whatever path you put in front of her.”

And so really the balls in your court. I'm going to send you two things, okay? I'm going to send you a year of the together app. Okay, y'all aren't married yet, but y'all are headed that way, I'm going to send it to you, okay? And it's a daily thing that y'all can do together that will give y'all a nudge.

It's a micro habit for rebuilding a relationship, okay? Okay.

The second thing is, I'm going to send you Joe building a non-exist life.

I want y'all to read that together. Because both of you have, you're trying to paint a picture and both of the, you're trying to put a puzzle together, I guess, it's a better way to say it. And both of y'all, the picture on the box for both of you that is your marriage that y'all grew up with, it's a bad picture. So y'all trying to put a puzzle together when really you don't have the picture of what y'all are trying to solve is. And so this book will give y'all a new picture for what y'all could build together.

So it's going to sound nuts, Joe, and Ashley, this might be the greatest thing that ever happened to you. If y'all choose to wipe the deck, build something stronger, make commitments and actually lean into those commitments. And Joe, if she has a place to be honest and say, so and so reached out and you're going to exhale and it won't be, well, what did you do? It won't be accusatory, it will be, thank you for telling me that. We can build that thing together, man, y'all are off to the races.

Thanks for the call guys. You all don't know this, but this particular call will help millions of people because y'all have the courage to call in here. How do we rebuild this thing? Right as it got off the, right as the train left to station that already got derailed, how do we rebuild it? It's the path. And y'all may end up in couples therapy great, but this isn't a, we need to race to therapy right now to therapist stuff. This is, we're going to start putting in the work right now.

Today's day one on marriage number on relationship number three.

“I'll be with you any every step of the way, if you want to call back in as y'all keep going down the road here.”

We're going to have several new relationships over the next year as the kid grows as everything changes as a kid's born change after change after change. So hold everything really loosely. I'm grateful for your call. We come back a man asks how to support his partner who has an eating disorder without causing her any harm. Most of the stuff on supplement shelves that your local grocery store is garbage.

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I'm good. How are you, Dr. John? Thank you so much for taking my call. Of course. What's up, brother? My question is, how can I support my girlfriend with her eating disorder and how can I navigate some of the negative self-talk and behavior that she shows?

Who, man? How old are you? 21?

How old is she? 19. How long have you all been together?

“Not very long now, a little month and a half or so.”

This is very, very, very new. Okay. So tell me how it's shown up. Well, she opened up to me about it pretty early on. And I kind of like, there were some earlier signs of it happening when I, like, would ask if she weren't any food she wouldn't have to lead a crime. But she opened up to me about it. And since then, you know, it's shown up like,

if she wants to go to dinner or if she wants any food at all, and she's just declined. And it has, there have been instances where she's been okay eating. But, you know, the more I learn about it, the scarier it gets. Yeah, it is. I haven't looked in the last year, but it's, it's, if not the most, right up at the top. But I think it's still the most lethal mental health disorder there is.

Is disorder needing. Okay. Yeah. So it's super, super serious. So I guess the couple of things I would tell you, especially at this stage in your relationship is A. You cannot at any point ever be her therapist or her physician for that matter. What is that? That means she has to have a pretty significant game plan and a group of professionals around her. This is that serious.

Okay. Where she is actively seeking healing and support and care. And you as her boyfriend are going to remain in that role as boyfriend. Not pseudo parent. Not pseudo. Did you eat anything today?

“Are you hungry? Do you need to have you been, right? Those kind of questions.”

So that puts you in this position where you feel pretty powerless. And so asking things like, how can I love you today? Okay. Instead of weren't you eating? Yeah.

What does today look like? You're not sure. And you're so young. You're so new. You'll probably aren't at the eye. Love you yet. So. Right. Asking her. Hey, what do you want today to look like? I'd love to hang out. What do you want tonight to look like?

Okay. Okay.

And here's the third thing.

You can't be responsible for her thoughts and her actions. Those are hers. Okay. And so by trying to put her in situations where she's going to do a thing that she might not otherwise want to do or feel comfortable doing. It's just a recipe for this thing to just run out of gas for real real fast. Okay.

And one of the questions that I have is like. Once you told me about it at first. It's such a foreign thing to me at the time. I kind of just froze up and it took a while for me to process it. And still when some of those. The, you know, the things that she says to herself in front of me when that happens.

Sometimes it can be difficult to know what to say because I know it's like a. It's an area where I have to tread lightly like you're saying. I shouldn't be her therapist. So I have trouble picking out what exactly to say to support her in that moment.

I was like in my late 30s for I figured this out. You ready?

Mm-hmm. Ask her. Okay. Be honest about this is new to me. And when I get things that are new, I take a couple days to process it.

And so I don't ever want you to think my silence means I don't care. It just means I want to show up the best possible way and right now I don't have a great response for you. And maybe even be honest and say, I'm my dentist to try to fix stuff. And that's not my role here. So when you say, oh my gosh, I look fat in this.

When you say, oh my gosh, I feel disgusting.

“What are some things that are helpful for me to respond with?”

Okay. Because here's the here's the deviance of the challenges she has. Okay. And I'll even call this one an illness. Like the the the the disorder that she has is if she says I feel disgusting or I look disgusting and you say no you don't.

You're not solving that problem for her. What you're doing is you're either a further confirming that she's crazy. Or you're distancing yourself by she isn't trust you. All right. And so instead of play I'm not going to play that game at all.

I'm going to ask on the front end, what are some things I can say? Okay. Right. And it's very natural for you as a young man, especially, but most men do this is to try to fix the pain that somebody you care about is experiencing. Just like how I cut the process and that's a that's a noble impulse.

The problem is most of us try to fix it in ways that we like things to be fixed.

I need to ask her instead of asking how can I best care for you right now because she's she because you can't fix it right. This is an unfixable thing. Right. And that takes some vulnerability. It takes you probably didn't have that modeled for you most men didn't.

This or not. And so it will feel you'll feel like a sample feel like your weak you'll feel like and what you're giving her is an anchor point. I'm so secure in myself that I'm willing to ask you how can I best show up for you right now and I'll do that thing. And all of us have this responsibility whether romantically involved or not is. If I see something that I'm uncomfortable with, I'll sound every alarm.

I'm willing to risk our relationship together for your safety. Or as I used to tell my students and I've told a few of my friends, I would rather you be alive in five years and hate me still. Then me keep the peace right now and you not be here in five years. And so things were to take a turn for the worse in her situation. What does that look like, you know?

“What does that look like putting our relationship on the line to get her better?”

What exactly? What steps? Bro, I've called 911. I've called adult friends parents before. I've called therapists when I know somebody seeing a therapist.

I've called them in the therapist can't even confirm that they're seeing that person but they can take one one way information right? I'll call everybody. I don't care. Okay. Because I just have, I've not made that call before and I've got to live with that for the rest of my life.

Right.

All right. So, and I'm not going to be, I'm never going to lie about it. I'm not going to go behind people's back. I'm going to let somebody know.

You're reaching a point of concern for me. Especially when you're dealing with something that is this lethal. Okay. And so maybe part of it is you saying, what?

“If I ever get to a point when I'm super worried about you, who would you prefer me to call?”

Okay. And she might say, nobody, how dare you you want to ever? And you can say, in all secure, like, in your, like, I care about you so much that I just want to have a game plan. In case that care might my concerns get real big. Hmm.

I do that. I have a no holds bar to, bar to approach to this. Hmm. It's just scary to deal with, like, yeah. I don't know. I mean, you know, I'd sort of relationship started in the midst of her situation.

Yeah. It's scary. It's very scary.

And the path forward is, is, it's, it's, it's man, it's grueling.

Hmm. Because if you're struggling with alcohol, you can, you can not be around alcohol. But food is different. Man, you got to make peace with it. And it's a hard road to navigate.

Yeah. Right. And, by the way, I, I can name several adults in great relationships. You've got kids who are successful all at staff who wrestled with this stuff, especially when they're young. So it's not a, it's not a forever.

It's not, it's not an end of time situation. Hmm. But especially young, especially in late teen, I mean, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a multiple alarm fire. Okay.

“And do you have any advice on where I could go to, just to gain a better understanding of, like, I guess the psychology behind it?”

Just so I can, I don't know, because I still feel like, you know, I've tried to learn as much as I can, but it's still just like, it still does just seem so forward and like, yeah.

I think trying to understand it intellectually helps a bit. You, um, I mean, y'all are still together, y'all are so new, right? Hmm. Like, like, let me put it this way. I went to grad school.

I learned all about it. But I didn't learn about it until I sat with more college students and young adults than I can even count. Okay. Right. And so it's a, it's a thing that takes you can learn about it.

But the wisdom of sitting with somebody and caring for somebody who's going through this. Man, that's, that's, that's not something you can just read in a book. Right. Right. The, maybe there will come a day.

I think being together for a month and a half is too soon, but there may come a day when you've go to her counselor with her. Mm-hmm.

“And you all talk about strategies together on how I can best care for her.”

Okay. The, the challenges you see her, right? Right. And the challenge is who she sees in the mirror is not what you see. I'm part of around my head around.

Exactly. It is. And so I would suggest spending less energy trying to wrap your head around it. Yeah. And making peace with, this is an is right now.

Right. Right. Okay. But I will, I will say this, brother. The fact that you want to not jump in and try to fix this thing,

but you want to try to be a good partner here, that's really amazing.

Thank you. I'm proud of you for that. Thank you. And you being willing to ask for coaching this early on, amazing, brother. Amazing.

Thank you very much.

“Like, this is, that's what, you will be a very wise 35 and 40 year old,”

because you don't have a fear about saying, All right. I've found myself over my head with, whatever it is. I want to get some wisdom before I just plough forward. That's awesome, brother.

Try to seek that out when I can. That's, I mean, that, that to me is the definition of wisdom. Some people think wisdom is, I got to have all the answers. No, no, no, I need to make sure I have the ability to go find the information. And humility encouraged to go seek it with all my might that you, brother.

So I'm proud of you. Um, care for her well. But ask her what that looks like. And by the way, her answers will more often change over time as she seeks additional care. And hopefully is on a journey to recovery.

Um, that's awesome. It will continue to shape shift and continue to change. And so you showing back up to the table time and time again, asking. What does care for you look like now? How does showing up for you look like right now?

Would you like me to say in these kind of moments? Let me just hold your hand and stay quiet. Um, I know you feel an insane amount of pressure if I say, hey, let's go get dinner. I know that means something different to you. What I'm saying when I say that is, I just want to hang out with you.

So give me some insights on some questions I could ask. Let's get four or five things that we know we like to do together that don't involve going to dinner. Um, let's get those on the table. We'll take some of that pressure off. So that's the path for, brother.

I'm proud of you, man. Thanks for the call. This show is sponsored by Better Health. Financial stress does not just damage our bank accounts. It can also take a toll on our mental health, our emotional health, and our relationships. Money worries cause anxiety and they're one of the leading sources of conflict for couples.

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Kelly, what is it?

“Alright, so this is from listener Levi in Lynchburg, Virginia, and he writes,”

"I was at the Valentine's Week in Money in Marriage in 2025. I told everyone how I betrayed my family, but specifically my wife by having an affair. I struggled with trying to figure out how to be a good man for her and for our son. You and the other personalities and everyone else at the getaway were very, very supportive

and encouraged me to just keep doing the next right thing. As of today, my 30th birthday, I'm 677 days sober and believe you and Rachel, and everyone else had a part in the continued healing of our family. From the deepest part of my heart and on behalf of my family, thank you." That's awesome.

“Yeah, we just finished the, we might have gone through puberty here.”

We just finished the Valentine's 26th Money Marriage weekend, and it was, this is the best one by a mile. It was awesome, but man, it's so cool to see those stories in here, everybody. We got, so the cards that you'll do, the anonymous box, you know, with the anonymous question. So, thank you, many of the shit.

Well, we get on from, so after Haley uses them, you know, that right, one of the ladies that writes with you, and that she sends them over to us, and then we divvy up which ones we're going to use and not.

And then there's always a couple that Mia puts on top,

she's like, "I don't know what to do with these." So, she has them to me, and one of them was somebody that just said, "We're having amazing sex this week, yes." So, much of amazing sex this week, and thank you. So, yeah, we throw a, the last event is cheesy, like over the top cheesy prom,

and with balloon arches, the whole nerdy thing. And we hire a DJ and it's just a big old dance. And there are lots of married hands on married butts, lots. It's like, "Man, there's lots of hands on butts to that bun Jovi song." It's just pretty awesome, pretty great.

But I want to say this. That's the end of the day. Dude, I run my mouth on a podcast. And you're the ones out there actually doing the work and putting in the work to stay sober,

to be honest, to tell the truth. And I just need you all to hear me say, "I'm so proud of you."

To every one of you who is grinding your way towards a better life, amazing.

Love you, guys.