My Wife Had an Affair While I Was in Recovery

recovery I soon found out that my wife had been cheating on me and another guy and I think we're both at the point where we want to bring in trust with each other. Okay. Why now? What's going on? What's going on? What's going on? This is John with Dr. John the Looney Show, coming to you from Nashville, taking your calls on your marriages, your emotional health, your mental health, whatever you got going on in your life. You want

to be on the show? Click the link in the show notes and it will take you right to the form you can fill it out or you can go to John the Looney.com/ask but Kelly prefers you to click the link in the show notes. It's about to Vancouver British Columbia and talk to James. Hey James, what's up, dude? Hi, Dr. John the Looney. It's an honor that you're taking my call today. It's an honor that I get to talk to you, brother. What's up? Hey, hey, I am I wanted to

know so I'm a little nervous. Okay, I'm going to hit you with it. Bring it. I have, I had struggled with a gambling addiction for a number of years and ruined my marriage and when I started to enter recovery, I soon found out that my wife had been cheating on me with another guy. Long story short, we are still together. I had stayed together but we have not worked on

“our marriage and I think we're both at the point where we want to regain trust with each”

other and work on this for I find myself always hesitating because things are good but they're

not great. So I don't want to destroy that with anything else that's gone in my past or anything like that. Okay. So how do we regain trust together and rebuild this thing? Are you sober right now? Yes, I am. How long? Seven years free of gambling addiction. Man, I'd hug you if you're sitting right here I'm proud of you, brother. Thank you. Thank you. So you have been pottering along in your marriage for seven years post recovery? We have. Why now? Why are you

coming up to this line now? I think because I find myself because I started listening to you probably about a year ago and in six month I took steps in the right direction. We had some conversations but nothing became of it. I started a journal, went and bought a journal, a whole bunch of stuff in this journal gave it to her letter read it and we had a quick conversation she said yeah let's

let's do this. I've never seen that journal again in the hurts and I'm just wondering if I should

“just move on. It's a pretty quick leap. Do you want to stay married to her? Are you done?”

I'm not done. I want to keep trying. Okay then the only path forward and I don't say this lightly. You'll have one path. Okay. That is to clear the deck and say we need to build a brand new marriage are you in and as she says I'm in and we're going to take two days out of our busy lives and we're going to draw up architectural blueprints and renderings of what our new marriage is going to look like. And we're going to practice new ways of communicating to each other, new ways of conflicting with each other,

new ways of sex, new ways of trust and safety, new ways of how we handle money together. We're going to rebuild it from the floor up and what's awesome is y'all have chosen a lifeless

“surface-level marriage. That's what y'all have chosen together y'all have co-created that.”

The cool thing is that may y'all could choose something else. If y'all are both in. Yeah, I don't know what she's in but

but you're never going to know. You've not known if she was in for seven years.

That's true. And so nothing, nothing can be rebuilt in a marriage if there's not safety and trust. And safety and trust are things you practice.

It's saying, here's what I want. Here's what I like. Here's what I need.

“Are you in? And what do you want? What do you need? What do you like?”

And this is you getting to see and know her and allowing yourself to be seen and known. Choosing to celebrate each other even when you got to look hard. And those three things seeing and knowing and celebrating somebody gives you permission to challenge them. I know all that. I know all that but I just can't bring myself to start those conversations. Why?

Are your phrases going to look at you and leave?

Definitely. Okay. Listen to me, brother. Listen to me. So please, please just stamp us on your soul. If that's the case, she's already gone. But I don't know that until I ask her. You know she's not with you now. And you know that you're not with her now. So you know the facade of your marriage is a puppet show.

You know that.

The question is, do you want it to be different? Are you willing to risk putting that on the table?

And she might say, I want to be done with the show altogether.

“Or she might say, I think, God, I'm in. Do you have kids?”

Yeah, but they're all grown and moved out of the house now. Okay. Are you still carrying tremendous guilt and shame from your gambling days? I'm working on that. Okay. I should be a process, really process. I might be crazy, brother, but I'm hearing this a subtext here that somehow you believe you're worth getting cheated on.

No, you're you're correct. I don't. I'm working daily to not necessarily, but I'm working on making myself more. Okay. You can't work. Okay. This is, I'm glad you said that. It's a super

“important. You can't just think your way into liking yourself more.”

That's like trying to think your way into being confident. You become confident. You become somebody that you like because you're a person who does things that are likeable. You become confident after repeatedly doing a thing to the point where you have some sort of mastery over it. And so you're trying to deeply respect a guy that you don't respect because you're not doing

the things that you would look at and say that's respectable. Like being honest with your wife. Like demanding respect and dignity and love from the woman you pledge your life to and who pledge her life to you for giving yourself for being sick for a long time, being really damn proud of yourself for being sober for almost a decade now. Being willing to say our new marriage is going to take some skills I don't have yet, so I'm willing to

learn and practice. Are you in? I can do that. I just think you're worth it, man. I think she's worth it. I think you're marriage is worth it.

build a brand new one. Well we are both seen and known and celebrated and challenged where there's

“laughter and joy in this home where you have your weird stuff. I got my weird stuff and we create a weird”

thing together. Like I want this and she looks at you and says no, I don't.

Then if nothing else, you have dredged the old Mississippi and the bodies have finally come to the

surface. It doesn't bring him back to life, but at least you know now, there's an end. Yeah. Right. And then we can actually get on to real grief. It's the middle ground that's killing you. The numb. Yeah, you're working. Yes. Game on. Game on.

If she's in, I wish I, I'm not done. I'm literally writing a book on this moment right now without hand you and say how to rebuild from square one. I just not done with it. Sorry. But, um, if she's in, I'm happy to talk to her too and give you all some step by steps on.

“Here's what we got to do. But I think for you guys, it's having that big initial conversation.”

And here's a couple of guiding questions. What do we want this thing to feel like? How can I love you today? And 10 years from now, what home do we want to be in? What do we want that home to feel like? Do you still want to be with me? Do I still want to be with you? We are the drivers of our life. And for some point, we're going to stop outsourcing it to something else. And we're going to stop knowing out the fact that it's painful to drive sometimes.

I'm going to take full ownership of my driver's seat of my steering wheel. And for you rebuilding trust, you're going to have to put a path out for her to follow. And you're going to have to say, will you walk this path so we can rebuild trust? And she's going to say yes. And I need this from you. So I can rebuild trust in you. And we're going on a decade now. So it sounds like yellow either, just kind of avoiding

each other or I don't know what you're doing, but let's put this stuff on on the table. Let's find our path back to each other. Let's get in the same boat in row and one direction. When we come back, a man asks how to stop procrastinating. I got it at work before he gets exposed. It's spring fishing season now and my son and I are out on the water with our Montana knife company knives, especially the filet knives. Why? Because Montana knife company knives

rule. And then we get back home. Our whole family uses Montana knife company kitchen knives to cook and prepare the fish we caught, chop up the vegetables, all of it because they're incredible. Montana knife company knives are designed, tested and built here in the USA by real hunters, real fishermen, real fisher women, and real chefs. Montana knife company knives are razor sharp right out of the box. They're tough enough to be used every day. I know because I use mine every day.

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When your knives need sharpening or if they ever need to be repaired, you just send them back to Montana knife company and they'll take care of it for you. These are the kind of knives that your grandkids are going to fight over one day. If you're looking for knives that are built to work and built to last across anywhere you need knives, Montana knife company dot com has what you need. Go to Montana knife company dot com and see what's available right now. That's a Montana

knife company dot com. All right, let's go out to Ottawa, Ontario. Oh, this is so hard. Fabian,

“Fabian, you're running. All right. Well, I'm, I think like most of you guess, a little nervous,”

but grateful to be on the call. It's good, but man, we can't let this elephant in the room go into dress. We're just like 48 hours after the big hockey game. Oh, I watched it. Yeah, just the pointing, just the pointing. I credit you guys, but watch his Canada's game and we could have won

the gold. That's the most amazing Canadian kind answer ever. Well played. Well,

Donald Trump, where as like Kelly was running around her neighborhood, like in denim and a bikini top,

So what's up? Yeah. So this is something I've struggled with for quite some time now and

“feeling kind of stuck with it. But I'm, I'm having a hard time coming into work and putting in”

an honesty's work and, and so I kind of distract myself with games and, and I find special when I had days that are less structured with, you know, less meetings and whatnot, less commitments. Like that, I, I tend to kind of waste more time and, um, and, uh, it's really kind of, um, getting to a point where I'm just getting really tired of this and, uh,

but somehow can't seem to, you know, do something to get me out of those, you know.

Is your work pile enough on you to where you know it's going to all be due over a long weekend, that's going to cost you 48 hours of your life and drama on all this kind of stuff? Or,

“is it, are you working at a job that, like, honestly is, is meaningless?”

No, no, I mean, uh, so I, I own a business and, um, and, uh, so I'm, at least, it's kind of, my, uh, my career development has been such where the business has grown and I'm less involved in the

day-to-day and so my role is now kind of more forward-looking and, um, and, uh, and so that means I

get less emails. I, um, I'm just less involved day-to-day and therefore, so what if, why don't you, why don't you have, uh, where do the burning vision for this thing could go disappear to? Yes. Yes. I have, uh, I have parts of a vision and that is something I'm working on, um, but I, uh, I do find that this does impact the deliverables that I, uh, my commitments to my, you know, senior leadership team and, and other staff in the business. I just, I kind of have a,

a reputation of just not being, uh, overly reliable, uh, with my, uh, deliverables and, um, I don't mind. Why isn't, why doesn't that keep you up at night? Um, they did it again. Like, of all the things, uh, and maybe this is just my personal bias. Like, yeah, I have a reputation for being late. I have a reputation for being silly. I have a reputation for making jokes at inappropriate times sometimes. Um, yeah. But, man, I take being reliable

very seriously. Like, that to me is, can I count on that guy? Yeah. He might be 10 minutes late,

“but I can count on that guy. No, he gets here. It's going to be a game. Do you know what I'm saying?”

It's like, what is it about, like, you have a leadership team that report to you and they're like, yeah, our boss is a flake. How have you gotten to a place where that doesn't bother you anymore? It, it is. It is. Yeah. You know, it, it, it, um, I, you know, I, I, conduct my day and, um, where I, I would not tolerate this from my senior leadership team. Of course. That's my point as you, you tolerate it from yourself. That's right. Yes, exactly. Which means at the end of the day,

you recognize yourself as untrustworthy. Yes, which is an indication of the passion of anxiety of some sort of challenges. Yes, exactly. And then I come home from work, but she after a bad day, where I'm frustrated. I'm taking it out of my family, um, and, um, and, uh, I just, uh, yeah, to do some self-loathing that come for that. And, and, um, and I, you know, I kind of imagine where I would be if I wasn't, you know, struggling with this. And, um, and so, uh, yeah.

And it, it's, this, uh, strange because it, it did a bit of a dichotomy. I have, uh, a great, you know, I'm married to my best friend. I have free healthy boys. Uh, the business has grown a lot, um, building an addition to my house. Uh, I have so many good things going. I know, you don't want paper, but you feel dead in your own skin. Why? Yeah. Why? Yeah. I, uh, uh, and that, uh, something I've wondered about listening to your video to kind of come to understand

Well, um, and then in honestly, brother, listen, it might be nothing. It might be that

“you need to go talk to somebody. I've been there. I am, okay. Yeah. I, I, I, I, I am seeing somebody”

at you two better help. So thank you for that. All right. Yeah. Yeah. I, I just started. So it's, uh, early days yet. That's right. That's right. And my guess is you might end up given what you're telling me. I don't want to cast any shadows over you. My guess is you may need somebody in person to sit with for a season. Okay. Um, but, but what, what your, uh, I don't want to, I don't want to make wild guesses. Was your childhood pretty rough? It was a pretty good, um, yeah,

very kind of religious family. I was home schooled. Okay. Uh, that's why I had a, I don't

only childhood. Um, that's not good. And, uh, that's not good. Okay. Okay. No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

“Off, often, it's a very common story, a very common heartbreaking story. One that I”

participated in myself. Okay. This idea that when I get these things, then I will look in the mirror and be okay with the person I see. And it's a tale as old as time goes back to the old Jim carry quote. I just wish everybody could get rich and famous for a minute so they could see it solves nothing. I've bought bought it. It sounds like you've bought it. We all bought it. If I can just get this thing and then you get it and you realize, oh, I went with me.

And I got to deal with. Why don't I like that guy? I see in the mirror. Why is the, why is the voice in my head? So incredibly awful to that guy? I see in the mirror.

“Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When I, I, yeah. And I've kind of, you know, uh, uh, another”

I fit to my life too, right where, you know, I don't have a good morning routine. I'm not exercising regularly. I do some stress feeding. Um, and it's, um, yeah. So there's a constant, being in a constant state of negative self-talk and, um, which just leads to more to negative self-action, which leads to more negative self-talk. It just becomes a bigger curse of loop and you wake up and your wife doesn't want to be around you and your kids avoid you and your 40 pounds of

weight and your board is thinking about ways to get rid of you. Yeah. And in the, the damning thing is those things just confirm the original story that started all this, which is you're not going to what you do and you're pretty much unlovable. They just haven't found out yet. Yeah. And so you have to go up river and challenge that initial story. Sometimes it helps to find out where that story comes from. And if you grew up in a super strict religious household that was more concerned with

performance than relationship, then that's often a place people start. Right. Now, I'm inherently unlovable. I can find some, some loveability if I will sing and dance in the just the right way. And I'll do that the rest of my life. Until one day you stop singing and stop dancing and you are able to internalize, I'm worth

being in love just because I'm here. And that paradoxically frees you to go do amazing things

because you're anchored into something way bigger than yourself. Yeah. And your jet fuel is not self-loathing. Not hate. Yeah. It's a step striking because I have, you have a great wife and I have boys that obviously think I'm there hero and and and I just, I don't know if I'm able to fully enter into that and fully be present to them and and take that and strike and run with it. You know, like it's just, yeah, it's trying to understand it. So I want to challenge you to

hey, you're doing the work to begin to understand it. Okay, but I want you to commit and I know I'm, what I'm asking you is nuts because you're calling saying I'm struggling with the commitment part and I'm saying, all right, I want you to commit to something and I know that's hard. Okay. And I'm risking

been found out yet. My boys haven't fully found out. My wife hasn't found out yet. My business is starting to kind of figure it out. My clients haven't figured it out yet. But I know the truth. And so all of this begins with you challenging what if you're wrong on that chief story? What if you're a pretty great husband? And what if you got, you got room to grow like we all do, but what if you're a good dad?

“And what if you're in a funk professionally and you need to shake the snow globe a little bit?”

But the work you do is actually good. And I'm never ever going to give somebody the opportunity to say

that guy's not reliable, right? That comes from changing the story. But I want you to take action and you'll get to the understanding down the road, but I want you to take action. Are you in? Yep. I'm ready for that. Here's a few tips. Okay. I want you to put massive hurdles in front of you and behavior you want to stop. And I want you to commit to the hurdle for 30 days. What does that mean? Delete every game off your phone. Delete the internet off your phone if you

must. Leave just your ways app and your debit card you're spending. That's it.

But make it insanely hard for you to do these things that are sucking your time and your soul from you.

Yeah. Put some shorts while you're in Canada. So it's zero. So put a fur coat. I don't know what you'll work out in the winter time. But put your, you know what I mean when I'm saying this, put your running shoes right by your bed at night. Yeah. Yeah. Right your wife a letter that tells her how much you love her and read it to her. Tell her specific things that you're grateful for about her. Do the same thing with your boys. Okay. Okay.

Yeah. I'll do that. The next thing I want you to do is I want you to break this stuff up into

“small rewards. Okay. What big project do you have working right now?”

Uh, an export opportunity. Okay. What does that mean? Aren't Van, you sound like

our Van Delay from Seinfeld. Like, what is it what's the export opportunity? Okay. No, for enough. Uh, yeah. So we, uh, most of our, our businesses in Canada. Okay. So I want to explore, uh, uh, what, you know, what export opportunities are for a fresh to start to grow outside of Canada. Okay. Are you the right guy for that? Uh, I'm the right guy to start the process and to kind of, you know, build a clear kind of vision for what we can do there and then then it's better at that

point for me to hand it off to the team. Okay. But are you the guy to go get that? Now that you have,

“you have a vision. I want to explore this. Hmm. Is there somebody you can hand that baton to earlier?”

That you look at and say, I want 50 leads by next month. Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, not a fifth point. No. Are you, are you, are you positive? Uh, not, not somebody currently in our organization. I would say is you're consulting company you can call? There are, yeah, I am getting some help from somebody outside the business for sure. Okay. So there is, uh, there is somebody who's kind of doing a sum of that X's and O's. Yes. That project. So yeah. So sometimes procrastination is actually a,

um, I'm, I'm, I'm finishing up a book right now. I've got several chapters left and they're completely mapped out. And what that means is the rest of for the next month, I'm just in a grinding mode. There's no more discoveries to be made. There's no more excitement to be had. Right. I just have to take what's on that outline and put it on the piece of paper. And that's a beating. And so sometimes I procrastinated during the outlining part because I was stuck trying to pull

different ideas together. Right. Yeah. So sometimes procrastinations about a skills issue. I don't know how to do this thing and I just don't have the courage to say that out. Right. I don't even have the, I don't have the wherewithal to realize that I don't have what it takes.

I'm going to break it up in really small things. I'm going to write for 30 minutes and then I'm

going to put it down and go lift weights for a second. I'm going to write for 30 more minutes,

then I'm going to go do X-warzy. I'm going to write for two hours, then I'm going to watch this show.

“I'm going to break it up. Do you have anyone who holds you accountable?”

Uh, I've started a little accountability group for weight and eating. Okay. Uh, I joined. I joined one. Um, I can start it. I joined it. And so, so I have that going. Um, and yeah, pull that. Do you think you're worth losing with that? Yes. Are you worth feeling good? I want to. Sorry. Are you worth feeling good?

Yep. Okay. Yep. How old are you right now? 44. Okay. I want you to write 54 year old. You a letter today. Okay. I don't want you to read it to your wife. And this is a love letter to your 54 year old self about the things you're going to do right now, so that your 54 year old self has the kind of life that you want him to have.

And it will be big things. I'm going to take care of my health. I'm going to focus. I'm going to refocus on my marriage. I'm going to double and triple down my relationship actions with my kids. And it will be little things. I started picking up one extra choreo day because I'm so grateful for my wife. I wanted to show her an action.

I started going to breakfast with one of the boys every week. So I got one breakfast with everyone at least once a month. Yeah. I committed a one project every two weeks. And I also committed to cleaner my calendar off of work and hiring some more help or whatever the things are. But little bit of action steps towards the way I deleted all the apps off the phone forever. And I have to feel the discomfort of boredom and of the life I've created that I'm going to took away all my off ramps for numbing devices.

So now I'm stuck in the life that I've created. And I'm going to begin creating excitement and adventure and play and love and connectivity inside this current life and not live a crappy dull life that I don't love even if it pays well. Even if it makes me feel whatever, not going to live that life and survive by numbing off ramps.

“I'm grateful for you, ma'am. I'm glad you're seeing a counselor. I think it's important. There's”

a lot of stuff going on here, ma'am. Oh, she had more time just to hang. But I see a lot of good new brother. And my dream and hope and prayer for you is that you begin to see it in yourself. You're going to see it through a bunch of tiny little actions. You're worth every one of them. All right. When we come back, a man asks how to talk to his parents about their isolation

without sounding critical. It is spring and some of my favorite days are out on the water with

my son, my daughter, even my wife joins us some time when we are fishing. My son is this incredible fisherman. I'm super jealous. But listen, the two of us just casting our lines and spending time together or our whole family out fishing together, it's amazing. And if you fish, if you go outside a lot, you know the glare on the water can be brutal. You're trying to see where the fish are and by the

“end of the day, your eyes are cooked. And that's why me and my son both wear shady rays,”

fishing, sunglasses. They're polarized, which means they cut the glare and actually let you see into the water. Not just the surface into the water. Let me say this. I've lost our broken, more sunglasses than I care to admit. And shady rays has lost and broken protection. So if something happens, they will replace them. This means I'm not stressed about wearing them out in the middle of a lake or on a creek or anywhere. They look great and they're not stupid expensive.

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Me and my family each have several different pairs of shady ray glasses and they are awesome. Head to shadyraise.com and use code Deloni for 40%, you heard that right, 40% off two or more pairs of polarized sunglasses. That's shadyraise.com, use code Deloni. All right, let's stay right here in Nashville and talk to Ross. Hey, Ross, what's up, man? Good, how are you? Thanks for taking my call. Of course, what's up, brother?

Hey, yeah, I kind of want to just get your insight basically on a situation with my parents.

friends in their life and it's kind of gotten to the point where really their only consistent community is my wife and I. And so I'm just curious, should I even kind of try to

“address it with them? And it's so how would be the best way to do so without coming from like a”

critical standpoint? So are they cut off siblings? Have cut off family members?

Search them or like, they cut off? Yeah, a little back to where they basically grew up in church, both my parents or pastor's kids. So they, so they're in search. So they're insane. Good, me too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't want to know the call of sorts. Yeah, yeah, um, but yeah, so they grew up in church. They raised me in church. I'm in church now and with my wife and I love that. And growing up, they were pretty involved with like their Sunday school group had

pretty consistent friends and in fact, like best friends. But I feel like once I started going to college, uh, whenever I was pack on break, I just felt like it was kind of a consistent thing of, oh, we're not seeing these people anymore. We're not talking to these people anymore. They said,

or did something that we don't like. Never giving like a specific reason. And it kind of ultimately

led up to, I mean, two years ago, they were going to a different church and when I grew up in, they're close with the pastor and his wife, you know, dinner board games. But, um, they told me to usually, oh, well, we're not going to that church anymore. Oh, something happened and they were like, no, um, we, the pastor had like a surgery and we texted him like praying for you or whatever, any never texted us back. And I was like, that's it. Yeah, I know. So, yeah, it's been two years

that they're, you know, no church, they not really, they don't really have any consistent friends or any they're like close by. So, how old are you brother? 29. Okay. Um, yeah. What is you have kids? No, no, no, okay. Um, what is your relationship like with your dad? When it comes to big conversations, like this, um, could you go have a question about, you like, and I'm being serious when I ask this. So, just tick them off, yeah, or nay, could you have a

conversation with your old man about your sex life right now? No. Okay. Could you have a conversation about you and your wife for struggling? It not any deep struggle. Okay. So, no, could you have a conversation with him if with your son if you have a baby? Uh, um, yes, I believe so, and to that sense. And what parents definitely love me, but we don't go very, okay, and that's, that's

“that's what I'm getting at. So, if you have a relationship and I know people, healthier, unhealthy”

doesn't matter. Like, I know people who are super tight with their parents. And sometimes it's very unhealthy and sometimes their parents are just unicorns. They're just amazing. They can hold space for stuff, right? Yeah. And that's a, that's awesome. Just very few people have that, and it is what it is. Um, so if this is a conversation that would be otherwise out of the depth of your normal interactions, then A, you have to put that on the table. Yeah, right? And that

way nobody gets caught off guard. Right. And the second thing is the conversation always has to

be a care and concern conversation, not A. Here's how it affects me conversation. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And you have a great opportunity right now, like all of the aging data says relationships into later years is one of the most, if not the most important thing, except for sleep. Hmm. And so being able to say, Dad, I keep reading these articles and I have to tell you as you're saying, like, I'm starting to get worried and also I can be over dramatic.

Could we have a, yeah, the conversation, right? And it's not in that little sentence. You've addressed, I'm reading stuff. A, I'm, and B, I care about y'all. C, I'm self-deprecating. So I give you a pass. I'm coming to you for wisdom, because you're my dad, and D, would you have

“a big conversation with me? Okay. Yeah. I think, and I think I want to approach it from a”

position of like a care, because otherwise I would just be like, you know, I don't have. I wouldn't have a conversation, because I could just, you know, the logic side of it is like, well, they've chosen to kind of cut these people off in easily considered. However, I think where my hesitating comes in

and I'm not. Yep. And so it kind of come, and I'm more of just a direct guy naturally. So it just comes off like I'm lecturing, but I'm not trying to. It's so beautiful about what you just said,

“that is that's what you lead with. I'm going to, I'm going to take any possibility for me to be”

misunderstood, especially because of me. I'm going to put that on a table first. And you can

approach it from health, you can approach it from loneliness, you can approach it from worry, you can approach it from, you're just down the road for me, wisdom, why is it a kind of nastial wisdom question? As you're getting to be 30 years old, you see your friends changing, some of them are having kids, some of them aren't, some of them are already getting divorced, some of them are, have the best marriage is ever right? Like, how have you and mom navigated,

haven't, haven't friends? I see that you all have had friends over the years, but you all end up cutting them off over time. And letting him just teach you about their, and you might find your mom's

crazy. Sorry, right? Yeah. Or it might be, your mom wants to hang out with these people, but I

refuse to, right? Yeah. And that might be the crack you need for a, well, dad, we're in about you. Hmm. Okay. Yeah. Or you might not get a crack at all, and you go back to your wife and you're like, oh, we're going to have to draw boundaries. Yeah. Because we can't be there entire emotional support system. Yeah. And I mean, to be fair to them, it's not like they're making me feel guilty about things or they're constantly like, you know, being at the door,

part of it may be just me feeling guilty of like, like, we have friends, we have our own active life or whatever. And I'm like, hey, you want to watch a movie, and I'm like, nope. Yep.

Can't come to an end schedule. But like, I want that for them as well for their own community. So

so I feel like I've said this 10 times in the last three weeks. And so if people are listening to these shows in order, they're going to be like, here, he just said that last show and just said this. So Dr. Kennedy, Becky Kennedy, I've had her on the show before. She's a psychologist out of New York. She gave me a great new definition for guilt. Can I pass it along to you? So she says what we often call guilt is not guilt at all. Guilt is a feeling. It's biology, right? It's biological. But

it is a, our body's response to our violation of our own core values. And in that regard, it's a good thing. It's a learning us too. You have done something out of alignment with who you say you are

“and/or what you need to be in this community. Okay. And that's a good thing. Yeah. What most of us”

call guilt is somebody we care about has uncomfortable feelings. And we want to take them from them and try to solve them for them. And so asking yourself, is it a core value violation for you to go commit to dinner reservations with your friends and go out and honor those reservations? Now, is it a core value violation that you don't spend every evening with your parents? No. And so when you quote unquote, "filled guilty" for saying, "I already have plans," what you're in effect

doing is reaching over and saying, "Hey, I'm going to take y'all's feelings of loneliness, I'm going to take your feelings of isolation, I'm going to take the choices y'all have made, and I'm going to try to solve them for you." And I can't solve them, so I'm just going to carry 'em and impact my marriage, impact my friendship relationships and kind of ruin the dinner I'm going to have right now. And so part of owning guilt is when your body says, "Hey, this is

“this is a violation, that's a good thing." It should happen. You should feel guilty when you”

violate your core values. But I'm going to make a commitment to not try to carry other people's emotional challenges. That's theirs. Those are their feelings, their emotions, their responses. Okay. And so if your parents have made choices, they've made choices. I can be sad for them. I can't feel guilty for them. I'm doing the next right thing. I haven't violated my stuff. Now if you start lying to 'em, all right, now I'm violating my core values. I feel guilty for lying,

right. Or if I'd stop taking their phone calls, I believe, honor your father, mother, pick up the phone, talk to your parents for crying a lot, right? So when you sort of violating your core values, then you should feel guilty. And I'm just not going to carry your stuff, too. I got enough of my own, right? Yeah. Yeah. That's fair. Okay. So that's good kind of division between the two family. So I mean, should I get just getting your opinion? Should I even

approach them about it to begin with? Like do you think this is something that would be a necessary,

kind of encroaching on taking that responsibility upon myself and just like, I mean, it goes back to

core values. I, I, I, I, um, I've got like, almost strangely competing core values. I don't speak unless somebody asks me a question. And I don't speak if I don't think I can be heard. And I will

“intervene without invitation if I think somebody's hurting themselves or others. So sometimes those”

compete. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And in this case, you may leave with nothing tangible, but your dad may go to bed at night thinking, man, that was kind of dumb. If you smile and you're like, you didn't go back out with your friend, because they didn't text you back after his surgery, surely there's more. Yeah. And you'd have to say, no, they didn't, and be like, really? Yeah.

My friends never text me back, but they would, they'd storm the gates of hell for me. And it

might be that sentiment that little, that plants a seed that he's like, ooh, maybe overreacted. And you might call back in three weeks, and they're all having dinner again. Yeah. And so you might not get the thing like, you're right, son, you're, I'm so glad that might happen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like you said, the core values thing is just I see they may not be like physically hurting themselves, but they're hurting in my opinion,

their own lives. And the fact that they're choosing kind of their own personal sense over yeah, it was yeah, that they instilled in me. Yeah. I guess it's part of the reason they're like, you kind of train your own things, you taught me. Yeah. I know, dude. It's way easier to make your kids do something. It's way harder for you to do it. Yeah. I found myself the other night like telling my kids like, hey, quit eating so much junk. And I was literally holding an Oreo and I said that. And I was like,

my son goes really, and I was like, yeah, this is bad. Look. Sorry. Yo, an Oreo. Like, I mean, it was, I was just, it was, I don't know. I've seen somebody flying by me driving like their drunk holding their phone and trying to text while they're driving. And I've been like, but tell your stupid phone. Well, I'm holding my phone. Like, I, well, I'm holding my phone, right? So yeah, I mean, there's, there's truth to that. There's truth to that. Yeah. But I don't know. It sounds like you love

your parents enough that it's like, I want to have this conversation. And it's not about, I don't like y'all calling me. It's not, there's not, there's some deep self-centered motive here. This is a not care about them. And I'm watching them slowly isolate more and more and more. And I just want to make sure they're okay. And I think that's worth the conversation. Thanks for loving your parents well, man. We'll be right back.

Hey, I want to talk you for a second about love and not the Titanic. I'll never let go kind of

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is a way of saying I love you especially when you can no longer say it yourself. Go to zander.com or call 1-800-356-4282 and get term life insurance the right way. That's Zander, Z-A-N-D-E-R dot com. All right, Kelly, I'm eye the problem. What do you think? All right, so this is from Clara in New Orleans and she writes. Helen, what's her verdict on the name Clara? I like it.

“I didn't know it was up for debate. I like Clara, it's one of those older names. I think it is”

beautiful. Like I think if I met somebody named Clara, I would double take just on the name. Yeah. Like, it's what I'm talking about that. It's not quite Sloan. Yeah. Which one of those double taking was Sloan? We are just such a cool girl packing up and taking off. Yes, together. But Clara, I like Clara. I think it's very pretty. In Sloan would drive like a cool retro VW bug van or a truck. Sloan drives a truck.

Yes. All right. Talk about Clara. So let's talk about Clara. She is writing to ask.

“So myself, 28 year old female and my ex-boyfriend, 32 year old male, we're together for two years”

and broke up seven months ago. We were very much in love and both wanted children, but I refuse to start a family with someone who was self-medicating with alcohol and not ready to face

the traumas in his life or go to therapy. I broke up with him, but deep in my heart, I have always

believed that we would find our way back to each other. Last month, I heard through friends that

“he has started going to therapy for the first time and has continued going every week since.”

However, last week, I met someone who asked me out on a date. I have not been on a date since the breakup and I really want to go, but I'm not sure that it would be fair, both to the new guy into my ex. Would I be the problem if I went on the date, even though I have a deep desire for my ex to get sober so that we can eventually get back together. No, not a problem. Go on the date. Go on the date and a date is not a promissory note. A date is two people deciding we're going

to have a good time together this evening. We're going to get to know each other, especially on date one. So, now, do you think so? I don't think she's the problem at all. Yeah, go on the date. And also,

“you never know. You might find that that's what it is. Yeah, like, oh, this is what kindness”

feels like. This is what safety feels like. This is what a regulated nervous system feels like. And it might be that what you're feeling is not, like an 80s metal song, like, love will find away. It's not, it's less that and more I miss the idealized version of what we had. And now I've got a flesh and blood new guy. In her case, what I think will have. It's not even what I thought we had. Yeah, that's good call. It's a fantasy of what will be when he just does everything that I want

him to. And that never works out that way. However, go on the date, go on the date and commit to having

a good time on the date. You're not violating anything of anybody in any way. Let us know the date goes. Now we're all invested. And if he says he has an X name Sloan, it's not going to work out. Because he's never going to let Sloan go. I never let you go.