The Daily Blast: Trump War on Pope Takes Darker Turn as Mental Decline Alarms Ex-Allies

I'm your host, Greg Sargent. Donald Trump's war with Pope Leo has taken an uglier turn. His vice president, J.D. Vance, warned that the Pope should be careful when discussing theology. And how speaker Mike Johnson, responding to the whole battle, committed a howler by bringing up just war doctrine, which Trump and Pete Heggseth are seriously violating.

It's notable that this comes as the New York Times just weighed in with an epic case detailing Trump's mental decline. In some obvious and not so obvious ways, Trump's battle with the Pope neatly captures that decline and then some.

Olivia Troy, a former national security official during the first Trump administration,

got an unusually close-up look at Trump's mental unfitness for office. She just announced the run for Congress, so we're talking to her about all this today. Olivia, thanks for coming on. Hi, Greg. Thanks for having me.

Let's start with how speaker Mike Johnson, recently the Pope criticized Heggseth for praying for maximal violence and killing of the enemy. The Pope said that God does not hear the prayers of those who wage war, but rejects them. Now listen to Johnson.

“You know, I was taking a little bit of back, just honestly, frankly, by something that”

was said, I think he said several days back that something about those who engage in war, the Jesus doesn't hear their prayers or something, you know, it is a very well settled matter of a Christian theology, there's something called a just war doctrine. There's a time to every purpose under heaven. I think what the president's comments, what the vice president's comments reflect, is they're

understanding deep and the, you know, the skip and the classified briefings of the stakes that are so high and the situation that we're facing and the fact that you had the nation that was a largest sponsor of terrorism now, having had that ability taken away from them. Let's break this up into two pieces. Johnson said there that Trump has access to all this classified info that somehow makes

our attack on Iran acceptable, seemingly meaning that the threat posed by Iran justified the attack. That's not at all true, is it Olivia? For everything that we've seen in the intelligence community and the reporting that we've seen, there was no justification for this war.

During the first Trump administration, there were many of those in national security, there

were career people who were assigned to the White House and I lived that firsthand and Trump was specifically talked out of engaging with Iran. This is something that he has wanted to do, for a very long time, but there prevailing minds in the room were able to navigate the situation and show him what the ramifications would mean.

So what is those being in the straight of our moves, which we are seeing play out right

“now, in very, very plain view of the complications of what happens when you do that?”

And it ultimately impacts us here domestically. Well, that's really interesting because Donald Trump was told again this time by senior members of his administration that if he went into this, it would be much harder than the anticipated and he just brushed them off. Sounds like you're telling us that he was actually talked out of it by those same voices

or by similar voices during the first term.

I think the issue right now is that you have an ongoing escalation that is happening in this conflict where now I don't think that they even know where to go from here. I mean, this is, I don't think they know how to de-escalate this. I don't know how they're going to navigate this internationally and this has become more of a regional thing as we're seeing.

And I think that in many ways the United States, this leadership that we have, unfortunately at the helm, has been outplayed. It really looks that way. The second piece of what Johnson said is really something. He invoked just war doctrine, but Trump and Hexeth are violating that doctrine's most

basic tenets very seriously. Those tenets generally involve prohibitions on needless wars without imminent threats and they involve proportionality toward the enemy. Yet Hexeth has talked about killing people who surrender and our war has killed well over a thousand civilians.

And you talk about the perversity of this of Johnson and Voking Just War Doctrine. I mean, it is absolutely clear that Trump and Secretary of War crimes Pete Hexeth are violating those tenets regularly, right? Yes, absolutely.

“I think the bigger concern with Pete Hexeth is just their invocation of this being like”

almost their holy war to fight.

on the head of the Catholic Church and attack him, just for wanting a de-escalation of

this conflict, for wanting the less loss of life for innocent lives not to be lost in this situation. While then you have Pete Hexeth at the helm, who is waving his very, very strong like almost Christian nationalism flag, I would say, in the way he is approaching this war, we've seen the rhetoric come out of him in terms of that.

And so I think when you kind of like combine all of these things, it's that hypocrisy is pretty astounding, I would say, across the board. It really is. Hexeth is just absolutely saturated and bloodlust and sadism. Let's listen to J.D. events now.

Here's what he said about the Pope's criticism of the Trump administration.

“I think it's very, very important for the Pope to be careful when he talks about matters”

of theology. I think one of the issues here is that if you're going to a pine on matters of theology, you've got to be careful, you've got to make sure it's anchored in the truth. That's just amazing stuff. The Pope needs to be careful about these debates, but vans would never say that Trump

needs to be careful when he viciously attacks a spiritual leader for a billion people. I got to say, Olivia, it's just so dark that they put Trump above the Pope and treat Trump as a quasi deity. It's clear that these religious conservatives see their highest allegiance as being to Trump.

I find this a mask off moment. What do you think? Well, I think it's pretty ridiculous for a J.D. events to be sort of the bastion of theology.

“I would say, with the way he is approaching the Pope, and I also, honestly, I think it's”

shameful, and it's disgraceful, and I also think it's a complete insult to anybody of faith. Any religious community of faith who is watching what is happening here by J.D. Vans and Trump and what they're doing in terms of the Catholic community and the church, by their behavior and to claim like attacking the Pope on theology. I mean, that's pretty rich coming from these two individuals, certainly pretty rich from

Donald Trump, who to me is like the end, just as is of anything having to do with religion, considering how he conducts himself and all of the history of everything that he's done in his life. So, I mean, this is really just another level, but I hope I will say this, Craig. I hope that this is an educational and enlightening moment for some of these individuals

and communities who are watching this and are really seeing Trump for what he really is the hypocrisy of this man in all manners, right? When it comes to religion, the way he uses religion as a cloak on himself, I mean, that meme of Jesus was disgusting, it was a trotaceous, and also the hypocrisy of the no more is campaign, right?

Where in caves and conflicts, we're sending military service members, people are being killed. I mean, this is just so so heinous, and I just don't see how it ends, and I also think it's only going to get worse. The more unfit I would say that he has in his stability and his instability going forward. Yeah.

“To stay up to date on all the news that you need to know, there's no better place than”

right here on the DSR network, and there's no better way to enjoy the DSR network than by becoming a member. Members enjoying ad-free listening experience, access to our discord community, exclusive content, early episode access, and more. Use code DSR 26 for a 25% off discount on sign up at the DSR network.com.

That's code in DSR 26 at the DSR network.com/by. Thank you, and enjoy the show. We'll speak in of Trump's instability, I think it's very clear that Trump himself wants this war with the pope to continue, otherwise JD Banson Mike Johnson wouldn't be doing this.

Now you've seen up close how the people around him operate, they are taking their cues directly from him, right? Can you describe that dynamic? How that works? Oh, yeah.

Absolutely.

And with this circle, especially unlike what I witnessed in the first Trump administration,

back then there was some pushback. There was definitely recovery afterwards of like how are we going to navigate whatever the mad man in the old office just said. This is a totally different dynamic where you have a circle of complete all-in, loyalist andablers who are there for their own power quest and enabling, and so they're not going

They're not going to be willing to put their own, you know, their own power on the line

“to push back on this, which is why I think this is so dangerous overall in terms of that”

kind of the demeanor. They're just going to sit there. They're going to watch what Donald Trump says, and they're going to parent what he says. And I've seen this. You know, where they parent the talking points, they, you know, at this point, I don't even

think that they're corny. They're just like, OK, whatever he said, now we've got to cover for him. Let's say something more ridiculous. So that way, we can just compile on it and continue to perpetuate this narrative. Well, the New York Times had this extraordinary piece with the following headline.

Trump's erratic behavior and extreme comments revive mental health debate. The piece ran through Trump's threat to obliterator on the incivilization.

His attack on the Pope for being weak on crime, that was the first attack.

Trump's tendency to wander off on weird tangents. His confusion about basic facts, such as mixing up Greenland and Iceland. The piece very well documented that his former allies are talking about the need for the 25th Amendment now. This includes Marjorie Taylor Green, Alex Jones, former White House lawyer Ty Cobb, who

called him clearly insane former Chief of Staff John Kelly, who concluded Trump is mentally ill. And so forth, Olivia, someone who ran with those people a little bit, I just wanted to get your thoughts on that piece.

“So, I think it's absolutely accurate to say that he is mentally unstable, mentally unfit”

to be serving in the Oberwaffes right now. I mean, we have the leader of essentially the free world who is off his rocker. And I look, Ty Cobb absolutely is accurate. He knows Trump's well, right? If anyone knows Trump, Ty Cobb certainly does.

And he is calling it out as, okay, Trump aside, what it is doing to the global dynamic and the disruption here is going to be the aftermath of this. It's going to last for years, Greg, the dynamics here, the rest of the world, and the dynamics and how they have completely disrupted the world order, our allies don't trust us why would they?

Why would they? And no idea what's coming next, and they're left to deal with the fallout, right? And Europe is watching this conflict, and they're trying to figure out within themselves how they're going to navigate this because it's obviously impacting them as well. Well, when you were in the administration, what was your direct impression of his sanity

or lack thereof?

“And what did the people around him say privately when he wasn't around?”

I got to assume that it was already very, very pronounced.

I mean, it was all sorts of craziness in the first term, but it got much worse in the second

while what was your direct experience of this man and the people around him? Yeah, I would say that when I observed him, he was certainly unpredictable. Obviously, last person in his year, in manipulating him. So easily manipulated with a sat, and I think also just a short attention span inability to really take in information, unless you really are drawing it like a cartoon at an artist or

an artist on a pencil and paper or like, or drawing it out to make sure that you can take it in because he certainly can't take an intelligence briefings. So that is a kind of persona. I do think that there were some, like, obviously he's got the narcissistic qualities, the neurosis and the manipulation factor there.

He's very power hungry, always self-centered, always speaking the attention. But what I'll say that is different from what I observed then and what we're seeing now is I do think that his health in terms of mental stability and the way he is conducting himself, I think has gotten significantly worse this time around and throughout the past couple years. Which worries me, by the way, because we are one year and change into this pregnancy.

We have several years to go, and my concern is that he is going to continue to get worse. He's going to continue to decline and I think this insanity and this recklessness is only going to get worse over time and we are going to see someone that is going to continue to lash out, especially as we become, he becomes sort of speak of lame duck and as powers

coming to an end, I just first see him slash and burn in a way that we've probably never

seen before, especially if he's not all there. Yeah, and especially if he senses his power slipping away from him, which it absolutely is, you're running for Congress in Virginia, you're in a crowd of primary. There's been some debate among Democrats and this is sort of an obsession of pundits, but the take is sometimes been, oh, anybody who talks about Trump's mental illness or

his own fitness for the presidency or his erratic nature and and derangement and so forth, is missing what voters actually care about, that, you know, voters only care about the

immediate to their material lives.

I've never bought this line before.

It seems to me that a lot of Americans don't want to have a madman as president and I want to ask you, as you sort of embark on this candidacy, are you going to talk about this

“kind of elephant in the room, so to speak, that the president is a nut?”

Yeah, absolutely, I mean, you can't discount what we have at the home right now of the United States and the free world, but here is what I will say, Greg, the issues of affordability, the issues of rising gas prices, rising grocery prices, rising fertilizer for farmers by the way. I mean, like, thinking of because of the street of tourism, what is happening there, right?

And also, health care, ACA, 70 things that actually, everyday working class Americans, like the family that I grew up in, I'm the daughter of a truck driver, I'm the daughter of a Mexican immigrant, like these are things that are tangible, yes, kitchen table issues,

never mind the fact that my mom, whose 82 years old, is actually fearful right now because

of ice and what ice is doing to torment our communities, because they're targeting people like her. I mean, so like, when I look at the combination of this, yes, we care about affordability, we care about these issues, economic issues, but the thing is, a lot of these things are driven from the very top, they're driven by Donald Trump's actions and his repliceness.

And so that is what I plan to do. I plan to tie it back to people and explain to people as much as I can to educate people, that, yeah, I want to work on that. I plan to focus on health care, because I have an aging mom, and I know that there are a lot of people like me in my situation, or trying to figure out how we afford this, or there

are a lot of people who like my husband who didn't have health care for a long time, and he has an autoimmune disease and couldn't get affordable medication so it took over his body, and he got worse. Like, these are things that are very real, but the issue is that Trump at the helm and category public and to what they're doing are actually making our lives worse by the legislation

and the things that they are focused on and passing, that feed back into that loop of these issues.

“And that's why it doesn't help to have a madman, an unstable individual in the office,”

who's getting us into global conflicts that actually impact the kitchen table issues on a daily basis, and in sort of, govern in this type of way, right? I mean, that's where my concern is, as someone who is witnesses firsthand, I was there as a career person serving, I have plenty of people are there in the career capacity right now that are having to live this daily nightmare firsthand and trying to navigate inside

the government. Well, it's such a thing the way you position all this, because it's really an important factor that the Iran war is almost like a double whammy for Trump in the following sense.

First, it shows how unhinged and how unfit to govern he is, but at the same time,

it also is having this very palpable impact on prices and on people's everyday lives. So in a certain sense, the war with Iran is like the perfect issue to capture all the profound pathologies, the whole bundle of madness and destructiveness that this presidency has ushered in, right? Yes.

100% because it all impacts in all the rumorings here domestically.

“And so instability, conflict, he's making our world less safe, right?”

He's making our communities less safe, but he's also creating the increases in the things by the way that he ran complaining about, right? Let's not forget during the campaign, he blamed Kamala Harris and they said, oh, if you elect Kamala Harris, there would be war with Iran, the price of eggs, all of these things were the Republican narrative in 2024 that I was out there countering every day on the campaign

trail when I was traveling this week's days. That is what you would hear. We'll guess what? We're in those situations right now that Donald Trump has gotten us into. Yeah, and I just want to close on this thought when Donald Trump threatens to obliterate

Iranian civilization, which would kill tens of millions of people, I don't think that should be treated as just Trump being crazy Trump, right? It actually matters to a lot of Americans to hear their president do something that deranged and soast and that's sadistic. Can you talk a little bit about that?

We don't want the president to be saying that we're going to use the American military to commit mass atrocities and extraordinarily serious and grave war crimes. We want our president to not do that kind of thing, correct? Well, we would want the United States let presidency to exhibit diplomacy. We would want him to be a leader in foreign policy to bring people to the table to be a

negotiator, not be threatening exactly what you said, war crimes, destroying an entire

I mean, to me when I saw that actually my concern was the after effects and the implication

“of watching the president of the United States use such language globally and how the international”

community and how everyone perceives that, right?

Because what that does, it antagonizes people against the United States.

“It radicalizes people against the United States.”

It makes people angry and overall it makes everyone much less safe.

Well, you're a very good voice to explain this to voters, so we're glad that you're running

“if only for that purpose to explain to people from a national security perspective just”

how unhinged and dangerous the sky really is. Olivia Troy, best of luck with the air congressional run, thanks so much for coming on. Thank you. I appreciate the support and if you want to learn more about me visit OliviaTroy.com.