Words Matter: Trump’s Mental Meltdown (feat. Mary Trump)

sub-basement of the Ministry of Snark in Washington, D.C. and from other undisclosed locations

across America and around the world. Hello, welcome to DSR's Words Matter. I'm David Rothkuff.

“I'm joined this week in every week by our friend, mentor, leading light, ornstein.”

How are you doing, Norm? I'm sorry, as we were saying a little bit ago, we're all mourning the departure of Christy Nome. Well, let's get to-- I don't want to leave our guest out of this. So please allow me to introduce our guest and our friend, Mary Trump, who is the Empress

and CEO of Mary Trump Global Worldwide Media, noted author, and bonvivall.

How are you doing today, Mary? Empress and bonvivall. How could I not be doing, well, despite the tragedy, the tragic news about Christy Nome? Yeah, well, the tragic news for those of you who have not heard, and I'm sure that's

zero of Monar readers, Christy Nome was apparently let go from her job as Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security. We can discuss why, in a moment, we can also discuss the spectacle of her giving a speech and apparently not knowing she was fired. That seems to be a classic Trumpian, Trumpian exit, but I would like to give you Mary

since you were, I guess, the first crack at commenting on this.

Uh, no. What to say, can I have the plane?

“Because that's why you need to take an app, you need an app in the waterbed on that”

plane. I wouldn't go near that. I wouldn't touch that bed with a 39 and a half of bolt. Yeah. That's so.

Yeah. What to say? I mean, she wasn't exactly fired, apparently she was given some other yet to be made up position. Um, and it just sort of reminds me, like Donald Dirt's everything into a city here, like being

president of the United States is now a city here, and now Mark Wade Mullin, uh, about who you guys have much to say, is going to take her place and what he's going to, you know, a secretary to, uh, homemade scurry to be out of my comprehension, so, well, that implies one thing, Mary. I don't mean it or up to you, but he does have to be confirmed by the Senate.

Yeah. That's going to be a nail biter for sure, you know, but, uh, Donald apparently doesn't even know that because he said he will be the secretary as of March 31st. Sorry. Uh, so I, I do have to say the,

the best comment on this that I've seen so far came from our friend, Denver Rigelman, former congressman, who said this is like replacing syphilis with gonorrhea. The jokes just write themselves. Hey, they really, they really do norm year and expert on the Congress of the United States, Mark Wayne Mullin, unbelievably, is a senator from Oklahoma.

“How would you rate him relative to the other members of the US Senate?”

You know, we have a sort of informal Olympics, the dumbest Olympics for the Senate. And Mark Wayne Mullin has been the gold medal winner and, you know, given Tommy Tubberville, Marsha Blackburn, Ron Johnson, and the list goes on, that's quite an accomplishment. It's a little bit like the, uh, US men's, uh, Olympic hockey team, uh, you know, emerging to win the gold, um, in overtime.

But it didn't even take Mark Wayne Mullin overtime to get the title of dumbest senator. And let's face it if we're looking at why he was picked. The single reason I would say is Donald Trump wanted somebody who would follow every order given by Stephen Miller. And that is Mark Wayne Mullin.

So maybe it'll be a little bit different. I don't think we'll be seeing, uh, sex in the bedroom on the, uh, executive jet among the

Um, and I do think because she's getting another position that, uh, the, uh, the little

button that's going around justice for cricket, um, will still be relevant. Uh, but that was, that was a nice touch. That's from representative Moscow it's during the hearing yesterday. Yeah. Uh, but you know, nothing, I don't think anything significant is going to change.

“And let's remember, beyond the mass thugs out on the street, another disturbing video for”

Minneapolis yesterday of one of them standing in the middle of the street and daring a woman who was driving to hit him and he would kill her, um, and refusing to get out of the street. Uh, but what's more disturbing at this point to me is what's happening in these concentration camps. We had, you know, we had murders.

We had, uh, innocent people shot by these thugs. But the number of deaths occurring in these private prison concentration camps keeps going up by the day and now we have a major measles outbreak in one of them where they, it's not like they're going to put people into places where they're not going to get measles and possibly die.

They're enclosing them in this space and keeping everybody else out. So is anything going to change with Mark Wayne Mullin? No, maybe a little bit less lying when he testifies in front of Congress, but probably not much. Mary.

Yeah, um, I think Norm is exactly right, nothing's going to change and it's important. I think to remember why no one was getting fired because she didn't give a Pem Bondi ask performance in front of Congress. She actually made some concessions to Jamie Raskin that I'm sure didn't go over well. But, uh, the, the fact remains that it's all window dressing.

“Mullin will be as bad or worse, um, you know, I think the only thing going for him and”

I don't even know if this is true, but he hasn't murdered a puppy. So that's, I guess, something. But, uh, we're in really bad shape here because we know that, uh, the war of choice that Donald and Netanyahu are waging against Iran is going very badly and at least certainly for Donald, it is to distract us, yes, from the absteen files in which he's mentioned

a million times, uh, but also from the fact that the United States government has murdered

American citizens, has murdered other, uh, people on American soil without due process, uh, and is, uh, stalking and building more gullogs, concentration camps throughout this country, and not enough people are paying attention, plus, of course, relatedly, as more mentioned, there's a measle outbreak because the conditions are so bad there, but also children throughout this country are getting measles because health and human services

“is being run by a sociopath, uh, so all of this is of a piece with, with the agenda of the”

Trump regime, make us poor, scared, tired, and sick, and it's, it's actually going to plan unfortunately. David, I want to add two other reasons why Trump fired Kristino. One is the executive jet and the seven airplanes she insisted on purchasing for a huge sum of money, and it's not that it's corruption.

And they're all corrupt, it's that it was unmasked as corruption, and she had no answer for it. And the second is another instance of grift and corruption, which came out in these hearings,

which we knew anyhow, $143 million from taxpayers going to a no bid contract to a company

created eight days before it got the contract. That's bad. That wasn't what caused her to be fired. It was that the contract that went to her former spokesperson and her husband was used to promote Kristino, and if you are not promoting Donald Trump and instead you're promoting

yourself, he doesn't care that they got the $143 million. If they'd used that money to, uh, basically lobby for Trump to get a Nobel Peace Prize, it'd be delighted with it, it's that nobody else should be getting any credit or any focus on themselves. To stay up to date on all the news that you need to know, there's no better place

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For your expense on GoFandMe, this verbable chapter would be presented from GoFandMe. You know, I appreciate your positive attitude here, and it's really lifting me up today. Yeah. As it does every week, Mary, I was particularly looking forward to having you on because I have a sort of theory of the case here, and I can't think of anybody better position

than you to comment on it.

“I think 2026 has been the worst year Donald Trump's presidency's by a lot.”

Every single day, he tries to do something, and every single day it blows up in his face. Whether it's Venezuela, or Iran, or other policy moves, or even, you know, Melania's bribe of entry, every single thing has brought his, has failed to lift his ratings with your plummeting, failed to increase the likelihood that there's going to be a big change in the Congress, brought him closer perhaps even to some kind of accountability

for his actions. He's ankles are getting fatter. His hands have bigger blotches on them. He's got now some creeping tree rot on the side of his neck that we don't can, you know, pinpoint exactly his head seems to be sinking gradually into his chest, in other words,

he's physically declining, he's politically declining, he's the lame duck. To me, it looks like Donald Trump is having a really classic existential bout because he's over, and he knows he's over, and people with eyes know he's over. The only people who don't seem to know he's over are the Republican Party who's deep, keep trading him as though he was relevant, but John Fetterman and, well, John Fetterman,

speaking of people is over, but, but, you know, you have a unique perspective on this, both professionally and personally, and I was just wondering what you think of this notion, that Trump is really, despite all the headlines, collapsing in on himself and fading. He's he's sundowning. Oh, yeah.

Well, I truly appreciate the description. You had me at creeping tree rot, the other day, the pictures of his hand and the creeping

So that was very funny.

“I mean, I'm sure it could get much worse, but please, I don't want to see it.”

The fascinating thing about where we are this moment, and I know it doesn't change. How bad things are, but we can at least take some small comfort in knowing that Donald

is miserable every second of his life, and that's as it should be.

Again, it doesn't help us, but at least, I'm not big, I'm not big enough to admit that doesn't help me. That helps me. Okay. Good.

It doesn't change anything, but it should make us feel a little better because it would

“be so much worse if you were enjoying this, you know?”

The fascinating thing about where we find ourselves now is that this is where his entire

life has been trending, and this is what he's been trying to avoid for his entire life. Like all of Donald's psychic energy has been spent for his whole life to protect himself from the kinds of massive humiliation, massive and unavoidable humiliation, he has now set himself up for, and that is kind of glorious. It's a sort of poetic justice.

We don't often see, now it's not accountability, and it's not enough, but this is going to accelerate his metaphorical end, if you will, because in addition to all of the things you mentioned, this is somebody who every day gets older, he's going to be 80 soon, and he is an un-a-deeply unhealthy 80. He is clearly suffering from cognitive decline, and he's had serious undiagnosed, untreated

psychiatric disorder for decades, so there were stress he's under, and the knowledge, and this is the thing that you alluded to, David, that is one of the most significant points we need to press on whenever possible. His ability to protect himself from the knowledge of who he is and how bad things are is eroding, and we need to pile on, at every moment, or the Democrats do at any rate,

and mock him, and point out just how deficient and degraded he is, because he can't handle it. We see somebody push back, he loses his mind, imagine if nobody ever let up. He wouldn't be able to retain structural integrity at this point, so it's pretty fascinating, and actually back in 2020, I said that what needed to happen was that Donald and the Republican

Party needed to lose, so badly that it would wound him narcissistically in a way he couldn't recover from, and unfortunately, that didn't happen. He lost, but the Republican Party didn't lose, and then he got rehabilitated with the big lie, and January 6, we're now in that territory again, where the narcissistic injury he's facing is so deep, it could be his complete undoing.

Well, you have seen older members of your family decline, and it does seem he's got traits

“of several of them, because his father, I believe, had dementia, and Alzheimer's, and”

his mother had a really bad haircut, and he seems to have both. So sorry, sorry to do that to you. We're drinking, I mean, obviously, I'm fair, anyway. That wasn't fair, there. Go ahead, Norm.

I want to pile on a little bit too. First of course, say, just how long drinking, saying

the other day that his father had been born in Germany, when of course, that was a lie, but this is from a speech this morning, quote, "If the prime minister of Norway had given me the Nobel Peace Prize, our submarine wouldn't have had to sink in Iranian ship." So I think, as we talk about mental decline and about narcissistic sociopathie or psychopathie, that's a pretty good piece of evidence that he's really losing it on a rapid basis.

Yeah, and he didn't say that because of the bad haircut. No, that's the other thing. Yeah, the other problem he seems to have, you know, you make a good point there, Norm.

needed to say that it was because there was an imminent threat, so there was an emergency, so he had to respond.

“So he said that there was an imminent threat, because we knew the Israelis were going to”

attack, and we knew the Iranians would respond against us if the Israelis attacked. But, and therefore we had to respond, but Trump unable to contain himself from not being the center of the story, then said, "Yeah, but I was the one who told the Israelis to attack,"

which creates the beautiful situation, which I'm a national security specialist has never

occurred in American history, where this is the first time in history that our president is responsible for the imminent threat we were launching a war against. I mean, he was, I mean, it's like, it's amazing, but, you know, Mary, you and I've been talking about this stuff for, I don't know, ten years, eight years, for a long time, and we said back then that he was the greatest threat we face.

“It seems clear now that, ever, that there is no threat in the world posed by anybody, greater”

than him. In this year, we had over 10,000 electro-fahrzeuges for Amazone Leverungen in Great Europe. For Leverungen, like football, for young kickers. I don't know, 10,000 electro-fahrzeuges, and it's more than ever, based on planned -fahrzeugen, our Leverungen partner in the A.U. and Ros Botanian, but ended 2006 and 20.

Yeah, which is a devastating commentary on almost 78 million Americans who thought this

was a good idea, because he has no ideology, he has no strategy, he has no plans. All of everything he does is to bolster himself up in one way or the other, financially, or in terms of perceived power, or, again, in terms of protecting his very fragile ego. But I actually, I had to say that the only reason he's the biggest threat we face is because of the fascists in the Republican Party.

He could be easily be reigned in, or he could have been anyway. And time after time, along with the corrupt illegitimate Supervatority of the Supreme Court, they refused to rain him in, they hand him more power, they make it almost impossible for him ever to be held accountable. So at this point, I blame them as much, if not more.

Donald has always been a symptom of a greater problem, and they demonstrate that every single

day that they continue to kiss his ass, and grease the skids for him to be the most corrupt,

“venal, dangerous, cruel, president, or leader, this country is ever seen, I think.”

Let's talk about the cruelty because of another element today, four of our service people who were killed in Kuwait, and by the way, killed because they were in a trailer, a makeshift trailer with no protection because Pete Higgsith wouldn't secure it, landed a dover air force base today. Not only was Donald Trump not there, Pete Higgsith, who's been doing fundraisers for Republicans

in the middle of this war, wasn't there. Nobody was there from the administration to greet these four heroes, so when his former chief of staff said, back during the first term, when Trump was at Normandy, that he called the dead suckers and losers. You know that he was not making that up, and you know, the way that Pete Higgsith referred

to the fallen soldiers makes it clear that the level of inhumanity here, a lack of any empathy, while you're the ones who are responsible for these deaths, you're putting our troops in jeopardy, and at minimum, you ought to at least log what happened when they're down in the course of the war that you've started, but no, they don't care. Then yeah, it's worse than that in some respects, you know, yesterday, by the way, Mary,

I don't know how long you listen to our podcasts, the Norman I do, but the thing that is stated most often is it's worse than that, and we just pile on, but, but you know,

religion that's practiced in Iran, and you know, you, I mean, there are reports of real

“kind of religious extremism being used as the guidance and motivation for members of our”

military, and Higgsith, you know, to just add to what Norm is saying when he was asked about the dead servicemen at a press conference yesterday, said, "This has got you journalism." You know, why are you focusing on this, you know, that's all fake news, and, you know, you know, to Steven Miller today gave a speech in which he said that, you know, we're only interested in human rights for, you know, good kind of people, but we don't care

about the human rights of savages who pose a threat to us, and you know, we know what he meant by that. It's like Donald Trump is declining, but the poison from his body is spreading out through the Republican Party, and it doesn't make me very encouraged about the future, Mary, with, you know, what I hear J.D. Vance or others who might pick up the baton.

Yeah, I think we have to be very vigilant about what happens next because they are aware that there is no replacement for Donald in their party, so they have to make sure that they don't have to worry about that.

“And that's why these midterms are so important and so fraught.”

It's like this entire regime is a version of, "Watch My Drive." Oh, yeah, people are dying, but look at these gold curtains and look at my ballroom. And it's so much worse than being tone-dough, this is, as you said, the poison is spreading the disease is metastasizing, and if we have any hope of rehabilitating this country and the people in it, we need to focus on the kinds of things, nor mentioned, why, why did suddenly

empathy and kindness become anathema to people? Without them, you get people like Stephen Miller and J.D. Vance and Donald, and it's

alarming because when I first started talking about this stuff in 2020, I said it's like 62 million

people that I can 2016 decided that they wanted this country to be some version of my family in which kindness, empathy, generosity, and sensitivity were considered weaknesses. And here we are all these years later, and it's so much worse because everybody in the executive branch, everybody in the role of a company who's an elected official, seems to subscribe to that notion that somehow being as inhumane as possible is what makes you viable and

worthy. And we are not going to be able to survive as a people. If we don't reclaim what it means to be the best, we can be as human beings, to be empathetic and kind and open-minded and valuing of differences and all the things that the Republican party is now actively against.

But that is going to require Democrats doing something I'm not entirely sure they're all

capable of doing, resisting it every turn, never, ever making common cause with these

fascists, even if it seems like a good idea at the moment. So I mean, federal menicide because I don't think he is a Democrat, they need to get very serious about making the case for why they are opposing every single thing. The Trump regime has to offer because we can't make half measures here. All that does is legitimize them and normalize them and further empower them.

So, Norm, yesterday was yesterday, no. Tuesday was an election day in several places in the country.

“Did you see anything in the results that give you hope for what Mary is talking about?”

There are a couple of things, although in a broader sense, I think Mary is spot on, Democrats who are running for office, far too many of them seem to think that all they have to do

And while that is hugely important, and I have no doubt that Susie Wiles and some others

are quietly apoplectic that after the state of the union were Trump made lip service to it, he then went out and made sure that gasoline prices would shoot up to a level higher than when he came into office and is still playing around with tariffs. But in fact, Democrats need to focus on the radical and sadistic approach that this administration and the Republicans and Congress are choosing.

“And there's at least a little bit, I think, of positive things there with James Taloreco”

who won the nomination for the Senate in Texas. They're already attacking him for some of the things that he said before. One of them, which I saw, Texas Governor Greg Abbott jumping all over, was a couple of years ago, Taloreco said, "God is non-binary." Now, if you don't believe that, you believe that God has some human form, but whatever

it might be, they're going to go after him, but I think he's on the right path, and I think it was a good choice and Democrats are rallying behind him. The choice of Roy Cooper, you know, overwhelmingly to be the Democratic nominee for the Senate in North Carolina is a very positive thing. But there's a broader point here that we have to keep reiterating, which is they're

going to go after stealing this election in Texas where the Secretary of State did not

“tell voters in two key huge Democratic counties, Democratic oriented counties.”

What their polling places would be, because they changed around the polling places and didn't alter some of them to reflect the new map that took place. And then when a judge said, because people were bouncing around and trying to find out where to vote, we're going to keep the polls open for a couple of hours longer so that people will have the chance to vote, the Texas Supreme Court, which is a bunch of partisan hacks,

basically said no, you're going to have to close the polls.

So beyond this horrible save act that we've talked about many times before, there'll be other things going on. And the other thing to mention here is this morning, the great Maggie Goodlander, Congresswoman from New Hampshire, grilled a top defense department official this morning and said, you have plans to send thousands of military forces into all 50 states to prepare for a civil

disturbance, which is the precursor to invoking the insurrection act and very possibly suspending the election. And his response was, I'll get back to you on that, which is insane. But we are going to have to not only have Democrats focus on the indecency of what's going on, but all of us are going to have to work overtime to combat what will be massive efforts

to basically overturn the elections.

And let's not forget the despicable potential action taken by the Colorado Governor Jared Pollis, if he in fact issues a clemency for a woman who not only tried to overturn the election and sees ballots and do all kinds of terrible things, but expressed not an ounce of remorse for it went through the legal process and was sentenced not to the most significant sentence that she could have been, but to nine years in prison for multiple felonies.

And if he gives her clemency, it would be a shameful act, a democratic governor who will then be putting himself on the side of election interference and chicanery. You know, Mary, when I listen to Norm described this and I have to endure it on a weekly basis.

“I think I know I love Norm, but when I listen to him describe this, you know, what”

we see here again are manifestations of a personality of the president that then extends throughout the party who doesn't care about rules, doesn't care about morality, doesn't care about consequences for anybody but himself. And so, you know, I'm not a psychotherapist as you are, I'm not trained in this kind of stuff and so I regularly go through it in my mind, you know, is he a sociopath or

And when I look it up online, it says psychopaths are likely born with genetic biological

“deficits appearing calculated charming and emotionally cold, whereas sociopaths are”

shaped by environment appearing a radical pulse of impromptu rage. And I was just wondering, you know, which is it? Can't it be both? I mean, I mean, you know, I mean, I think I think that there is something wrong here, you know, as I said on a different show the other day, this is the moment in world history

since the time that Hitler blew his own brains out in a bunker, that the fate of the world is most impacted by the psychological dysfunction of a single man.

“Yeah, it's, it's, and this one, that, that's what constantly is blowing my mind.”

He's so grotesque, he's so weak, he's so deficient and depraved and grotesque, and grotesque, and grotesque, all these, all the tree rod, all of it, creeping tree rod, that who, what kind of person looks at him and thinks, oh, yeah, that's my guy, it's just, it's embarrassing.

I know that's not the most important thing, but it's also embarrassing and inexplicable.

But the problem is that fragile systems bend towards their most dysfunctional member, and America has been, has become an increasingly fragile system for decades, and it's almost as if Donald was, was the logical outcome of that, and he is a manifestation of what this country has become. I think. So, the question then is, as you said earlier, is his leaving,

“exiting stage left, going to be enough to write us, and that's why it is so important for Democrats”

who are the only party who care about democracy, who tried to defend democracy, who care about

the well-being of American citizens, generally speaking, stand firm. And it is, as, as awful

as it is when Republicans bend the knee, or when corporations and white true law firms and institutions viral, learning capitulate, that at least makes some sense to me as, as, as vile and unacceptable as it is, but when Democrats do it, considering they, they are technically outside of the system, that created Donald, that I do not understand at all, and all they do is make themselves ridiculous, and make our jobs harder. So, if Polist does indeed,

grand clemency to that woman, he needs to be primary, and he needs to lose his month for reelection. But what I want to do is not to be a part of the whole studio, the semester by Tag Lab Tobicher Soft, who is interested, is a master of politics. I say, you can say, you can say that to Rekko. You have a story, right? But you do not understand. He is a master of politics. He is a master of politics. He is a master of politics. He is a master of politics.

I mean, yes, so many people need to be shot. That's true. Like, these are people who, there are so many people who do not should not be accepted into Polist society, or society of any kind of decency again. So, hopefully we'll get to the point where we can start doing the shunning. Yeah, I love the fact that Norm goes back to his Amish roots to find ways to punish these people. But I'm going to do something here that Mary, I'm glad you could see it in our last couple of minutes on this episode. Every episode,

I try to end on something upbeat. And every episode, Norm confounds me. It's like a regular battle where I try to make it up, but I'm going to succeed this time. Norm, is there not something uplifting in the offing? Is there not the premiere of a documentary on PBS tonight called Immutable that we should all know about Norm that will make us feel better? Is that not something positive, Norm Ornstein? Thank you very much for that, David. And Mary has seen this documentary

evening. Here in Washington, it's on WETA, the public television station at 9 p.m.,

“unless the war takes a even bigger turn for the worse. We have a segment on the news hour”

on Friday with a couple of our remarkable kids and morning Joe Friday morning. And for those

whose public television station, ridiculously is not airing it tomorrow evening, Friday evening.

Go to PBS.org and there's also going to be a YouTube version of this that will be up on Friday

“which happens to be a national speech in debate day. And it is heartwarming, uplifting, inspirational,”

and God knows that is in such short supply these days. And it's reflective, it's reflective of the hard work and vision and commitment of Norm Ornstein. So, I'm Judy. And so I just want to add my G-sense. It's so beautifully done. It's so incredibly moving. I had seen it already but to watch it in an audience with other people and see how moved everybody was. It was such a testament to the work Norm and Judy have done and to the work all of the coaches and administration. It's

administrative and especially to the extraordinary work these kids do. I was so honored to volunteer and to see what they do to prepare and become knowledgeable and the ways in which they engage with each

“other. I think every school in this country should have a debate team. It is powerful, powerful stuff.”

Thank you for that, Mary. Thank you for joining us today. I hope you'll come back if you enjoyed it.

Thank you always Norm. Thank everybody for listening to us and please join us on all the other

podcasts we do every day or watch them on YouTube or audiences growing pretty steadily. We're covering this war in great depth and we've had a number of podcasts on that. We will have more where we bring in very, very high level experts to provide perspectives. You can't get anywhere else. So this is a really good time to be joining us and if you'd like to support what we're doing go to the DSR Network.com and click on membership and support us. But until we see you the next time,

many, many thanks, Mary, Norm and everybody. Bye bye.