This is an eye-hop-hop-cast, guaranteed human.
Joy is essential, and it's also elusive, but now.
There's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence. Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, How to Copy. If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy, tune into these candid, uplifting, and moving on-air chats.
Open your free-eye heart radio app search, Joy 101, and listen now. Joy 101 with Hota-Copy is presented by CVS. There was no anything inside those eyes. They turned black. It's scared the hell out of me.
Evil wake up! I'm the one that saw the murder. Take place by treat that end of Pippo.
“You need to Pippo showed no signs of remorse, appearing unfazed after being sentenced”
to the maximum. I said I'm not guilty, I'll take it to the grave. Listen to the devil's quarry in the bone valley feed on the I-Hark radio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I am the therapy gecko.
I am an unlicensed, lizard therapist who takes phone calls from real anonymous humans about their problems, such as this. Sometimes I'll have my girlfriend pre-cute, spicy food, and kind of baby bird it into my mouth. Is that weird? This week on therapy gecko, we're hearing all real, authentic human stories about anything
from relationships, to family drama, to serendipitous encounters with unexpected people and things. If real people peak your interest, this is the podcast for you. Listen to therapy gecko, on the I-Hark radio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
This black music month, a quest-lapse show celebrates the visionaries, shaping culture through sound, from country trailblazer Mickey Guy to hip-hop icon, fa-fi-fretty, sonic genius
of thundercat, and the revolutionary voice of Shakti.
So the time of my be-all, the sound might be muffled, but what's going to come out of the is something that you can feel, celebrate black music month, with special episodes of the quest-lapse show. Listen on the I-Hark radio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We've nearly come to the end of the journey, Derek is tucked away in prison serving out a 24-year
sentence.
“But there's one thing I think we still need to interrogate, if we really want to make”
sure no one has to go through this again. Why did it take so long for our girlfriends to get justice? When Mike Alker began to build his case against Derek, he was up against years of failed chances to put Derek away. If you look over the years, he got a slap on the wrist for every single thing he did,
and he never spent any significant amount of time in jail.
When he started interviewing the women, they didn't expect much. Every reaction I got from almost everybody was, he's going to get out, and he's going to do it again. I can't blame them for being skeptical. It's just like, what is this, Mayberry?
You know, it's just like Keystone Cops. That's Tracy from Texas. How are you allowing this person who's clearly done these heinous crimes to continue to be set free or to get away from y'all? Y'all need to pay attention because they would let him go each time.
“So of course, why would they believe me when I told him hey, this time is different?”
My things this time, it can work, and luckily for him, he has an army at his disposal. When new spreads that a federal investigator has joined the good fight, the women start to believe that this time, it might be different. We started receiving text messages and people reaching out women from all across America. Who is this and what's your name and can I call you and can I set up an interview?
And those women have come prepared. Every single one of them preserved evidence, kept their records, kept documents, kept pictures. Mike, once all of it, we really wanted to put together the bigger case. Something that was isolated in North Texas, but something that was continuing from many,
many, many years to put it into it. We obviously did our best to obtain as much evidence from every person no matter which jurisdiction it was. Special agent Mike and his team are traveling the length and breadth of the country, building a case.
Friends of evidence, banking evidence, witness statements, it's pictures, it's videos.
As we know, direct takes that plea deal, gets carted off in his orange jumpsuit.
What had law enforcement been doing all the years leading up to this moment?
“I think because it's very easy to dismiss, you know, kind of a boyfriend, girlfriend, dispute”
or domestic dispute or a civil dispute. Has anything really changed? I'm Anison Field, and from the teams at Novel, and I Heart Podcasts, you're listening to the girlfriends, trust me, babe. Bonus episode 4 - How to Gatch O'Connaughtest.
When the women in our story went to law enforcement for help, an obstacle that they'd often run into was that the prosecutor in their jurisdiction wouldn't take on the case. Because it would be a waste of time, a waste of resources, too hard to win. When prosecutor William Tatum joined the fight, he had a different view. My what appeared to be such an obvious criminal case, I was really shocked that it didn't
seem like a lot of the other conduct directly affecting these victims had been prosecuted like it should have, in our opinion, like how do you not look at these and say these are
“obvious criminal offenses that you're going to go after?”
And you know, Derek Altered, he has a pretty lengthy criminal history. He's been arrested before for other offenses. We were fully going forward just on door walkins, and you've had these other victims out there who have these massive loss amounts who literally had their kind of their futures destroyed by Derek, I don't really know why in some of these different circumstances no
one went after him for these crimes. No one seemed all that interested from what I had seen. If somebody had contacted me, you know, with the facts that are in all of these different victims cases, that would have been a case that we would have done, you know, no problem. Such an agent Mike thinks he knows why other law enforcement agencies didn't take it seriously.
They thought this was more of a relationship dispute than criminality on Derek's part. This isn't just a boyfriend, girlfriend thing. A boyfriend, girlfriend thing, what does that even mean? If I were disputing over something in the house, you know, like this is my, no, I paid for you paid for it.
Generally law enforcement are not going to get involved in that. And oftentimes, they'll say, hey, take it up in civil court, the sheer volume of these types of complaints happen, that they kind of numb law enforcement around the country to just handling them almost entirely the same.
“And that's why I can't really necessarily blame them because there are so many.”
This isn't really like a unique thing. This actually happens every day, hundreds of times a day across the country. Mike spotted that wasn't the case with Derek. This is more of a con artist that duped the victim, in this case, he wasn't just a immediate.
He was very smart. He was really good at what he did. He was a legit con artist. Not only were the women receiving the message that this wasn't theft, it seemed like they were also being seen as scorned girlfriends, just bitter about an axe.
The response that they had received was, this isn't really a theft because you were in a relationship.
I mean, that response never really made sense.
They're not going to take someone off the street to investigate somebody that took $0,000 for a woman. These are even came away from the experience feeling like the situation was her own fault, just because she'd dated the guy. I was just so upset.
I felt like such an idiot. And it was very demeaning. I just feel like they think, oh, another stupid woman got, you know, swindled by a guy. Now, even later on in Dorie Watkins case, when Derek Altered did his multiple filings after he was sentenced.
Derek did go on to lunch and appeal against his sentence, but it was rejected. He had tried to make that argument that he did have consent to use all of her iPad, because he gave him consent.
But it never made sense to me because they were not in a relationship with the real Derek
Altered, there were obviously victims of fraud from this guy that was putting...
as either Richard Taylor or whatever it was for whichever victim.
“But with me handing over my laptop and saying, sure, you can use it.”
I, you know, I was more or less my fault that I allowed him to do that.
That never made sense to me that long fortunate would tell them that, that no, you're in a
relationship. So this isn't an actual theft that makes no sense whatsoever. This guy who's acting like someone else has intertwined himself into your life to make it appear that there is, all of that to continue the fraud. None of it was ever legitimate.
I could never imagine a situation where we would look at you and say that Derek Altered, you know, this intelligent, evil person who has completely lied about everything, put himself out there as someone he 100% is not and represented that to you. And in response to that, you said, sure, you know, you can go ahead and use my iPad that somehow you've given this person consent or sure, you can give me, you know, financial information.
Let's go see my accountant and at that point, you would represent it yourself as some sort of smart financial advisor, some sort of investment broker that you're going to offer your expertise on what I should be doing with my finances because you've managed to weasel your way into my life that somehow that's giving consent for him to take all of your money. Derek has said repeatedly, he had consent to use Dory's iPad and credit cards, well,
that Richie Taylor had consent. Dory disputes this, but even if he had, it seems absurd when you say it out loud, but you know, according to Cindy and some of the other victims, that was what they ran into, when they were trying to get this, this case prosecuted. Now for us, it was just obvious that, no, you didn't give anybody consent, especially
not the guy that's trying to defraud you. When they start telling you face-to-face what had happened to him, it's just devastating. I remember telling, you know, most of them, if not all of them, really just kind of apologizing to them on behalf of the criminal justice system, you know, as a whole, and saying this
should have never gotten as far. He never should have been able to do all of this across
the nation for as long as he has, and so that was a big part of it was just kind of apologizing, you know, on behalf of the justice system. In this case, the justice system, until Mike and William and their teams rocked up, had failed these women.
“When it comes to this kind of serial romance fraud, is this case an outlier?”
Is it really that rare for a case like this to be prosecuted and has anything changed? That's coming up after the break. In the moment, it felt like it was going on forever, I didn't think I was going to live, I was terrified, there was no anything inside those eyes, they turned black, it's scared the hell out of me.
That was your first murder case?
Yes, sure. Fear to say this was the biggest case here, career? Yes, sir. Right, the murder of her sons, 12-year-old child. It's the battles it gets.
I would think so. People wake up, and the woman saw the murder, paid place by crevents and the people. Anthony DePippo showed no signs of remorse, appearing unfazed after being sentenced to the maximum. I said I'm not guilty, I'll take it to the grave.
Listen to the devil's quarry on the Ihard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts, and to hear the devil's quarry ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to the love of a good plus on Apple Podcasts.
“Joy is essential, and it's also elusive.”
You can't order it, you can't borrow it, or simply hope it in the life, but now. There's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence. Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, Hota-Cotby. Together, guys, we'll have meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating
people. And our tame legend, sports icons, wellness experts, and everyday people will share how they find, allow, and experience joy, and offer some of my own tips and takes on seeking a more balanced and harmonious life. If you're craving inspiration, support, and useful tools to maximize your joy, tune
into these candid, uplifting, and moving on-air chats.
Joy after a breakup, joy is an empty-nester, joy after a loss, joy as a caret...
This new podcast will speak to you.
Listen to Joy 101 on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. I am the Therapy Gecko. I am an unlicensed, lizard therapist who takes phone calls from real anonymous humans about their problems, such as this. Sometimes, I'll have my girlfriend, pre-tuit, spicy food, and kind of baby bird it into
my mouth. Is that weird? Or this? I had my boyfriend over, and I had dirty dishes everywhere, and I put the dirty dishes on our closet so he wouldn't see them.
If you're the kind of person that would enjoy being a fly on the wall of a stranger's
therapy session, or if you pass people on the street and constantly wonder what might be going on in their heads, this is the podcast for you. This week on Therapy Gecko, we're hearing all real authentic human stories about anything from relationships, to family drama, to serendipitous encounters with unexpected people and things.
If real people peak your interest, listen to Therapy Gecko on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're seeking to try to understand the forensic science behind these cases that we hear
“about in the news, body bags is where you need to turn.”
There's no fluff we do a deep dive into the forensics. Listen to body bags with Joseph Scott Morgan on America's #1 podcast network. IHeart, open your free iHeart app and search body bags with Joseph Scott Morgan and start listening. We don't have a great number for this because the reporting is low for a crime like this.
I asked Jen Lawrence the romance scam social worker for more detail on the status quo of prosecuting romance fraud in the U.S. right now. People are embarrassed, they're ashamed, maybe they don't know where to report or how to report its or our data is not great. I mean, what are the kind of stats that you're looking at, how common is this?
The most recent numbers that have come out is that one in three have been victimized on a dating app. Maybe they haven't necessarily lost money, but there's been some sort of exploitation or abuse. So that's a pretty significant number of people.
“But I think it's a pretty staggering statistic.”
Dizing apps have made this kind of crime even easier. You're on a dating site for every reason you want connection for people who are looking to victimize others, it's very easy to fit what somebody else is looking for in a partner. These dating apps just makes it so accessible. You want companionship, you want compatibility and it's so easy to manufacture.
I was talking to somebody who identifies themselves as a survivor now and they said it's
basically like shooting into a barrel of fish.
One of the parts of all of this that I've found so shocking is of course I can understand why normal people dismiss romance scams. I can get that why that happens. But I have genuinely been shocked by law enforcement's reaction to romance scams and how quickly they're dismissed as sort of domestic squabbles.
When it's so clear to anybody that this has been the plan from the get go. What do you make of that? I would say more often than not, the people that I work with when they talk about reporting have negative interactions with law enforcement.
“I think it's hard because it revictemizes victims at the end of the day, right?”
You have a negative experience with law enforcement, somebody who you are supposed to trust and go to for help and then to be met with shame and blame or even the guilt put on you is really really difficult. I think part of it is a lack of education and training on the law enforcement side and that needs to be addressed and I also see this as similar to the way that other crimes against
women have been viewed over time thinking about sexual assault. I think it took a long time for the law enforcement community to really do a lot of training and take a look at themselves internally and to really validate that women experience this at high rates and men as well of course. But I think crimes against women and I think we look at something like this as women being
more victimized or more vocal about being victimized and I think that law enforcement really does have to play catch up with their training. I think that it will take time to do that. It takes resources. I would say victims that I've worked with who have had the best experience reporting,
Often talk to some sort of community service officer or even a female in thei...
is more often validating supportive that this happened to them. That was certainly true for Dory when she first arrived at the Colony PD to give a statement. I explained briefly what I was there for and they put me in a room where I wrote out my statement and a female police officer came in and I thought I won the lottery.
“I think because she was a female police officer, she listened to me with different”
ears than a man would if I think. I don't know if the people that went to the police before reviewed is just scoring women
or oh this isn't a big deal whatever and he was never stopped.
He should have never gotten to me. He should have never, it should have never made it this far from Hawaii to Texas. Even with women on the team and when it is taken seriously by federal investigators and prosecutors like Mike and William, it doesn't protect the women from that pervasive victim blaming attitude.
Someone from the investigative team was sent to visit Lisa in St. Paul, Minnesota to collect her statement in person. The lady came to my house, they sent me an email about the stuff she'd be asking so I kind of
enough filled it in and then she recorded me, it was a difficult process for her to go through,
recalling all those details again. I felt so ashamed at that time and when the session wrapped up and the woman who'd taken down Lisa's statement went to leave, she made a remark that we're all the shame back for Lisa. She says the best advice I can give you is don't do online dating, it's just stupid. You know I'm like okay, things are just slapping it in my face again.
I felt really upset that she just mean you feel bad once again like I was such an idiot that I like this guy do this.
“Don't do online dating. Was that ever really the lesson here?”
The thing is, while online dating has made romance fraud easier, it wouldn't have protected everyone from Derek Wardred. He'd been introduced to Cindy through Facebook, not a dating app. The hospitals he attended as a fate firefighter didn't match with him on okay cupid. The St. Paul Hotel didn't come across his profile on plentyofish.com.
I think that in some ways, just the geography of the United States, it helped him out a lot. I mean this is like we have such a patchwork of jurisdictions and this is something that criminals have taken advantage of forever. I asked journalist Rachel Monroe about her thoughts on how Derek had managed to get away with it all for so long. So many counties and states and cities and like the law enforcement don't talk to each other. So if your crime is low level enough,
“few defraud some women in Minneapolis and then you go to Las Vegas and you defraud some women there.”
Nobody's looking for a pattern or you're not incentivized as local law enforcement to really dig into this. It just seems like a small scale, one and done, you know, cross it off the list. And so because there's so much space and so much distance and so many kind of fractured jurisdictions, you can just commit a crime and leave town. I mean in some ways, it's the classic American story. Move on to the next place.
In the space left by institutional and competence, women have learned ways to help and protect each other. I had a lot of security measures in place prior to Derek, but afterwards I had even more. More often the break. In the moment, it felt like it was going on forever. I didn't think I was going to live. I was terrified. There was no anything inside those eyes. They turned black.
It scared the hell out of me.
That was your first murder case. Yeah, it's fair to say this was the biggest case here, career.
Yes, sir. Right the murder of her child is probably a whole child. It's a balsic case. I would think so. People wake up and the woman saw the murder pay place by crevents and the people. Anthony DePippo showed no signs of remorse appearing unfazed after being sentenced to the maximum. Listen to the devil's quarry on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
And to hear the devil's quarry add free with exclusive content, subscribe to Love of For Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.
Joy is essential and it's also elusive.
hope it into life. But now, there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful
existence. Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, How to Copy. Together, guys, we'll have meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people. Entertainment legends, sports, icons, wellness experts, and everyday people will share how they find, allow, and experience joy. And I'll offer some of my own tips and takes on seeking a more balanced and harmonious life. If you're craving inspiration, support, and useful tools to maximize your joy,
tune into these candid uplifting and moving on air chats. Joy after a breakup, joy is an empty nest or joy after a loss. Joy as a caretaker, this new podcast will speak to you. Listen to joy 101 on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. I am the therapy gecko. I am an unlicensed lizard therapist who takes phone calls from real anonymous humans about their problems, such as this. Sometimes, I'll have my girlfriend
“pre-chewed, spicy food, and kind of baby bird it into my mouth. Is that weird? Or this?”
I had my boyfriend over and I had dirty dishes everywhere, and I put the dirty dishes on our closet so he wouldn't see them. If you're the kind of person that would enjoy being a fly on the wall of a stranger's therapy session, or if you pass people on the street and constantly wonder what might be going on in their heads, this is the podcast for you. This week on therapy gecko, we're hearing all real authentic human stories about anything from relationships,
to family drama, to serendipitous encounters with unexpected people and things. If real people peak your interest, listen to therapy gecko on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're seeking to try to understand the forensic science behind these cases
“that we hear about in the news, body bags is where you need to turn. There's no fluff. We do a deep”
dive into the forensics. Listen to body bags with Joseph Scott Morgan on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search body bags with Joseph Scott Morgan and start listen. I had strategically put together a huge safety net. I'm definitely a feminist. I want women to be safe. Wendy is the first woman you heard from in this series. Now that we're near in the end, I thought it'd only be fair to come back to her.
In episode one, we heard about the stories Wendy's mom used to tell her. From when she was a young woman in the 60s living with her friends. How did such each other's dates out? Keep each other safe. Wendy was lucky to learn very early on that if you want to stay safe, your best bet is to look out for your friends and let them look out for you.
My sister always knows in GPS where I am. I don't look at it unless she tells me she's traveling
or going somewhere or going out with somebody. And I always tell her roughly about what time I'm going to be home. I would meet at a certain restaurant where I would know one of the employees. I would wait for the guy to go in. I'd get out of my car, take a picture of his license plate, send it to my sister, along with his phone number and a picture of what he looks like. And I wasn't afraid to tell them, hey, you know, I really like you. Let's spend some more time
together. I'll have my sister do a quick background check on you. There was one guy. He's like, oh, here's my driver's license and my social security. And I'm like, okay, well, liability, I don't really want to know all of that. But if a guy gets a little sketchy on, uh, I don't want somebody like, then you know, maybe he's got something to hide. So a lot of times, I wasn't even having her look someone up. But if I was meeting someone, I gave her all the information.
If my date extends for many hours, I'd let her know or she'll reach out to me. And there's no
“judgment. There's no, oh, are you having a good time with this guy? How long have you been there?”
Whatever, who cares? Your safety is the number one priority. And the number of times, if I was going to get in a guy's car on a second or third date, if they were getting gas, I would open their glove compartment, take a picture of their registration. If they'd go to the bathroom, I would look at their wallets, take a picture of their ID, make sure that their age and name
matched. I'm not afraid to do any of that. It's amazing how, you know, attentive to you all to
All of that stuff.
It is depressing. What would you say to people who say things like it couldn't have happened to me when Harry stories about this? It can happen to anyone. If somebody's good enough, every single person can get scammed and rather than saying it can't happen to me. If they truly believe that, then they're closing themselves off to actually meeting people or opening up to people. You can't
ever get hurt if you're completely closed and you never share anything. I've been thinking about this
a lot. What I actually want you to take away from all of this, and it's not necessarily to tell you
“that you should be checking everyone's glove compartment on a toilet break. I'm not looking”
to inadvertently victim blame anyone who didn't do that. It's not really your responsibility. Being too hyper-focused on safety can backfire. And Wendy is one of the first to say that. Here's the thing with online dating. If you're going into it thinking, oh, this person's probably lying about everything, then what's the point of trying to meet
someone today? If you go into it and you are super skeptical, guess what? You're never going
to make a connection. You're not sharing anything real. That's just never going to work. I would much rather be a happier person, assuming that most people are who they say they are. That said, I'm glad that Wendy has Lori to look out for her too. I also think there's a
“sweet byproduct of allowing someone to be a bit of a detective Lori in your life. It's allowing”
in a world so hell bent on putting romantic love on a pedestal. Someone to be something even more than that. The moderator, the sage, the rescuer of your life. The community that was there before and will be there after the day. That kind of friendship is only built when you actually let yourself be someone else's responsibility. You'll end up repaying the favor down the line. It's actually the main thing that I've taken from this story. How lovely it is that so many of
these women accepted love and care from their friends when they needed it most and how they've all said that's basically how they survived it. Sisters before misters or something like that. Wendy has her sister. You've got to have some kind of backup, some kind of safety net. Whether it was helping her be safe or just being there for her to talk about, oh my gosh,
you're never going to believe this guy went out with. She should be a private investigator.
Everybody needs one of those things that has her friends. Our relationships of knowing each other
“are so deep and for so many years. That's important to have a friend that would do absolutely anything”
for you. I'm blasphemy. I mean, I'm lucky to have them in my life and we're still there for each other. Dory had her friends too and she had Tracy. She's a really, really good person. She helped me through it. And I've got produce that I know. Anyway, that's all I've got for ya. I loved it. Thank you so much. Should I stop recording? Yeah, now you can hit the sub. And we've got some news inspired by the women in the series. I made the brave choice to make
myself the owners responsibility for another season. So stay subscribed. We'll be working away on our new show in the background. In the meantime, we've got some great new one-off episodes of the girlfriend spotlight coming your way. Plus, a brand new narrative season dropping soon. About what happened when a group of air stewardesses in the 1960s decided enough was enough. Thanks for listening.
The girlfriend's trust me babe is produced by novel for iHeart Podcasts. For more from novel, visit novel.org. The series is hosted by me, Anison Field, and this episode was produced by Valeria Rocker and Leona Humid. Our editor is Joe Wheeler, production management from Sri Houston, Joe Savage, and Charlotte Wolf, fact-checking by Dania Sulayman, sound design mixing and scoring by Daniel Kempson and Nicholas Alexander. The girlfriend's theme was composed by Daniel Kempson
and Louisa Gersding, and performed by Daniel Kempson with vocals by Louisa Gersding. Music supervision
From Daniel Kempson and Anison Field.
story development by Susie Baker, and Olivia Smart. Novel's director or development
“is Selena Metta. Max O'Brien is the executive producer for novel, Katrina Norvell and Nikki”
Eator are the executive producers for iHeart Podcasts, and the marketing lead is Alison Cantor. Special thanks to Carrie Lieberman and Will Pearson at iHeart Podcasts.
Julie Sensulo and Langston, Carolyn Shrelevin, Katie Gillis, Kelly Hunt, Rachel Monroe,
Tom Olderag and Tad Fesmer.
“Joy is essential, and it's also elusive, but now, there's a new and exciting way to start your journey”
toward a more joyful existence. Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, Hota Kopy.
If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy, tune into these candid,
uplifting, and moving on-air chats. Open your free iHeart Radio App search, Joy 101, and listen now. Joy 101 with Hota Kopy is presented by CVS.
“There was no anything inside those eyes. They turned black. It's scared the hell out of me.”
Evil wake up! I'm the one that saw the murder, take place by creamet and the triple. Anthony DiPipo showed no signs of remorse, appearing unfazed after being sentenced to the maximum. I said I'm not guilty, I'll take it to the grave. Listen to the devil's quarrel in the bone valley feed on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
I am the therapy gecko. I am an unlicensed lizard therapist, who takes phone calls from real anonymous humans about their problems, such as this. Some kind, I'll have my girlfriend, pre-cute, spicy food, and kind of baby bird it into my mouth. Is that weird? This week on therapy gecko, we're hearing all real authentic human stories about anything, from relationships, to family drama, to serendipitisan counters,
with unexpected people and things. If real people peak your interest, this is the podcast for you. Listen to therapy gecko on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Black music month, with special episodes of The Quest Love Show, listen on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
