How do you argue with a narcissist?
How do you talk to a narcissist?
“How do you most effectively communicate with a narcissist?”
I am so excited for today's episode and back my popular demand, communication, phoenom, and trial attorney, Jefferson Fisher, is here to talk with you and me today about the key secrets and rules you don't want to break.
For arguing with a narcissist whether at home, in friendships or in the workplace, and how it impacts all areas of our lives. Jefferson Fisher is a trial lawyer, a fifth generation award-winning attorney, writer, and speaker.
His work has gained him millions of followers all over the world through short, simple, practical, social media videos teaching people how to argue less and talk more. Whether it's handling a heated conversation, dealing with a difficult personality,
or standing your ground with confidence,
Jefferson helps you communicate during life
every day, arguments and conversations, and his brand new book called The Next Conversation. Are you less, talk more, is out now. Jefferson says, we can change everything about your life by what you say next.
And you and I are in for a treat, because Jefferson has stepped away from his busy legal practice. He got on an airplane, he flew here to be with you and me today. Whether you're listening for yourself or because someone that you love shared this episode with you,
I want to welcome you to the Jamie Kernley-Mashow podcast family.
“Remember, this episode is not just for you and me,”
please share this with every single person you know, because it can change their life too. Before we jump into this episode, I'd be so grateful if you take two seconds to click on the follow or subscribe button
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And just thank you so much. This is our show together, and it truly means so much to me. Jamie Kernley-Mashow, name everybody needs Jamie Kernley-Mashow. ♪ Jamie Kernley-Mashow ♪
Jamie, you're so inspiring. ♪ Jamie Kernley-Mashow ♪ Jeff, first and first share. Welcome to the Jamie Kernley-Mashow. - Thank you so much for having me, Jamie.
It's honor to be here. - I'm so excited you're here. - Yeah. - Wow. What has happened with you, with your advice,
with your videos, it has become a phenomenon. - Thank you. - Mm-hmm. - Yeah, it's truly been a blessing, and right now I'm just holding on.
- Yeah, yeah, well, I'm excited so much to dive into today, narcissists. - Okay. - Narcissists. Jefferson Fisher, (laughs)
some of your most viewed videos, are about how to handle narcissists in our life. So many people have a narcissist who's a parent. - Right. - Or, and they didn't even know what that meant
until a year ago. And now they're like, whoa, I was raised with that. And I'm, or perhaps it's a partner or it's friends. In your new book, The Next Conversation, right? Which is our U.S., talk more, so many great tools.
You know, I read a cover to cover and I'm already applying some of the tools to my life right now, which I'm so grateful for. I'm so excited for everyone to pick up their copy. And we get so many questions, oh my gosh,
I get emails, I get DMs, right? About, you know, how does being with a narcissist impact my self worth?
“How do I, you know, how do I know if I'm a narcissist?”
I get that question a lot. So, you know, just to ask you, you know, off the top, what is, how do you define a narcissist? And how does somebody know if there's one in their life or if they're one?
- Yeah, oh yeah. Well, let me get this out of the gate. If you're asking the question, if you're a narcissist, here's a clue, that tells you you're not the narcissist. And you actually have the emotional awareness,
the ask that question, or even care to ask that question. One is that our true narcissist, not just people who have narcissistic tendencies, they are somebody who just exhibits maybe talks at behaviors every now and then.
We're talking about the people that are trying truths, they are a narcissistic person. They don't have empathy. They don't do empathy. They only do themselves.
They have to be the best out of everything. They can't take the idea that they are not better than who they're sitting across from. Who has the better ideas who said the better thing?
You compliment somebody, they need to put them down
to make themselves feel better.
It is a continuous loop with these type of personalities that they want praise and control from you at all times. - When we find ourselves in an argument with a narcissist. - Yeah. - What do we do and what don't we do?
- Right.
“Number one is you need to acknowledge what you're in,”
what you're in is a game. It's a game I call praise or provoke. And when you're in a conversation with a narcissist and argument doesn't matter, you're planning a game. And it looks beatable.
It looks like you can dance to 'em. If you could only get them to understand how it affects you. If you could only get them to acknowledge what they did was wrong, then everything would be okay. Then you could fix them, but the game is rigged.
It's like a carnival game.
It was built against you. You're not going to win. So it's a game of praise or provoke. Meaning if you're not giving them praise, if you're not saying how great they are,
then they will turn to provoke you to cause an argument because they delight in your praise just as much they delight in your anger and your emotion and your response. It's the same thing.
They're getting that sense of control that I can control and manipulate your emotions. So if you ever feel like you're in this circle with somebody, a circular argument with somebody is a narcissist, they are trying to take
a hold of your emotions. In their feeding off, they feed off of you getting angry at what they said. They'd like that when they can jab you and you get mad at that, they like that kind of thing.
“So it is something that you need to first acknowledge”
your praise or provoke. Number two, like we talked about gas fighters, you need to use as few words as possible. Meaning you just acknowledge what they said, but you don't have to engage in what they said.
You're adding that stiff form of distance. Simple as I hear you, noted, that's good and no. Like just short concise and different responses that you're just not feeding into what they're saying. It's not gonna get you there.
But when that happens, they just don't have anywhere to go with it. Three is you just need to know when to walk away. That no response is very much a response. If you think that somebody didn't answer your text
for five minutes, it just might say something. They didn't answer it for five days. And that says something else. So the power of the pause and the silence by not responding to it at all
is often the most powerful move you can make.
- What do you do if you realize and somebody really close to you? - Yeah. - And you're like, whoa, you just started realizing all the signs and it's like exactly them to a T.
- Yeah. - What do you do? - Well, it depends on that relationship. If it's one that you need to nurture and you really care about it,
you've been dealing with these symptoms. It's now you just have a way to define it. It doesn't change what you do. It doesn't change how you approach it. It's just now you have a label to put on that behavior.
Because the term, I think narcissists was really even used until here lately of, now we see these kind of tendencies everywhere in the way they show up and go, oh my gosh, yes, it's a total narcissist. Well, what we're also used sometimes
as just a put down for somebody says something you don't like, oh, they're a total narcissist. They just disagreed with you. So it's very easy to throw around. You say somebody's in your life
and you're starting to see these signs that they're exhibiting. I think it is worth the conversation at least once of what you're seeing and what you're worried about. Most likely they're going, if they are an narcissist, they're going to totally disagree.
And they are going to make it even worse that conversations, probably not going to go well. The point is you at least said what you needed to say to get it out to them. Next would be just the understanding of, okay,
how do I go back to it? You're going to see the praise and provoke.
“You're going to see that you need to just use very short words.”
And you need to walk away from conversations. Anytime then it comes up. This is a clear point. It's such a word that an a concept and narcissistic tendencies is something that people, so many people are just starting
to hear about or learn about or research. And I think a lot of people have realized they were maybe raised by a parent who was one. Some people are worried they have a child. That's exhibiting those kind of tendencies.
And I think what you're saying is, okay, once you realize all that, well, you've already been dealing
With it for a long time, right?
So then one thing that we can do is go, okay, well, how do I respond?
“So when an argument starts, now how do I stand my power”
to not get taken down the path? There's so much more coming up in this episode, you are not going to want to miss it.
But first, I wanted to share this with you.
In life, you don't sort the level of your hopes and dreams, you stay stuck at the level of your self-worth. When you build yourself worth, you change your entire life. And that's exactly why I wrote my new book, worthy, how to believe you are enough and transform your life for you.
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Build unshakable self-love.
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and embrace the truths that wake up worthiness. Overcome limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome, achieve your hopes and dreams by believing you are worthy of them and so much more. Are you ready to unleash your greatness
and step into the person you are born to be? Imagine a life with zero self-doubt and unshakable self-worth.
Get your copy of worthy plus some amazing thank you bonus gifts
for you at worthybook.com or the link in the show notes below. Imagine what you do if you fully believed in you. It's time to find out with worthy. Imagine what would you do if you fully believed in you. My weekly free inspirational newsletter
is packed with tips and tools to help you find out. It's called One On One with Jamie
“and it's delivered right to your inbox each Tuesday morning.”
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and here's to becoming unstoppable together.
And now more of this incredible conversation together.
I think what you're saying is okay, once you realize all that, well, you've already been dealing with it. For a long time, so then one thing that we can do is go, okay, well, how do I respond, right? So when an argument starts, now how do I stand my power
to not get taken down the path? Because whenever I've gotten in discussions or disagreements with people who have narcissistic tendencies, you don't ever feel like, you don't ever feel like you reach a point where there's where they get it or where you're heard or seen
or understood or even if you try to hear, see and understand them, you don't ever feel like that's sufficient and it just is a thing forever. And so whether someone who is in having to navigate, whether it's arguing or communicating with the narcissist
at work or somebody in their life, you know, what are your best tips for just how, okay, you can't control them. Of course, you can decide in most cases, if it's a personal relationship, you know, what are you going to do about that?
Are you going to change the, you know, the relationship, you have with them or not, sometimes that work, you can't necessarily change that. But that aside and just saying it is what it is, what are some things that we can do to make sure,
you know, we don't go down the rabbit hole, we don't get sucked into it, we don't do the wrong thing, and we also try to protect our peace. Yeah, number one would be understanding that you don't need an apology to make your feelings valid.
Like they did something to hurt you, but they're a narcissist, and you keep trying to say or they have narcissistic attitude. And you keep trying to say like, only an apology like you don't understand. I'm saying I need you to say this,
That or the other, and so we sit in that space of thinking I need this from t...
Correct. Okay, and you're saying we said that one more time. Yeah, you don't need an apology to validate your feelings. You don't need an apology from them to validate your feelings. It doesn't, having them apologize is not the condition by which you're going to determine whether what you felt was real or not.
And when you sit there and go, "I'm so hurt, can you please just see how I, if you could only see how I, this hurt me and you try to re-explain it, it is rigged carnival game. It's not, it's not, it's not, it's not. You're asking to do something that they can't do. Yes, it looks beautiful. It should be beautiful, but it's not.
“And so you have to come to the realization that looking for that apology,”
you don't, it's not going to happen and you don't need it to convince yourself that your feelings were justified and, and real. And what about to heal? Do you need their knowledge, or their apology to do that? A lot of people think they do, but yeah, what do you say
to that? To me, the apology is always for the other person, not for you, like it's,
you could say something hurtful, and it's totally up to me, my choice. Do I catch it? I don't want to let it go. The apology is really for you to understand what you did was an error. It was a foul ball. Can you acknowledge, to me, it's what you're saying when you apologize? Can you acknowledge me? That was a foul ball. Yeah, that was a foul ball. It has nothing to do with, "I need that. I cannot heal. I cannot move one step forward unless I
have this apology for me." The apology is not for you. It's for them. When a narcissist is behaving that way, they're not going to. So you're not going to get it. So you just have the, the, the power within yourself. It's that power of detachment. They're saying, they're going to be who they're going to be. I'm going to be who I'm going to be. And goes back to whose voice are you listening to, and that you, you don't need an apology. There are aha moments, the light bulb
to click. If only you think you could just change them. They will be everything that you you want, and they'll finally see it. That's not going to happen. The power is all within yours.
“You don't need that to heal. Remember, this episode is not just for you and me. Please share this”
with every single person you know, because it can change their life too. Make sure to pick up Jefferson's new book, the next conversation. Are you less? Talk more. And check out his brand new Jefferson Fisher School of Communication. We'll link it in the show notes. And if you love today's episode too, well, my only ask is you please click on the follow or subscribe button for the show, on the app that you're listening or watching it on, then give it a five-star review,
and then share this episode with everyone you believe in. Share it with another person in your life who could benefit from it, post it, and share it with others online or in your community,
who just might need the words and tools and lessons in this episode today. You never know
whose life your meant to change today by sharing this episode. Just thank you so much for
“joining me. And before you go, I wanted to share some words with you that couldn't be more true.”
You right now exactly as you are, are enough and fully worthy. You're worthy of your greatest hopes. You're wildest dreams and all the unconditional love in the world. It's an honor to welcome you to each episode of the Jamie Kremlin show. And here I hope you'll come as you are and heal where you need. Blossom, what you choose, journey toward your calling and stay as long as you like, because you belong here. You are worthy, you are loved, you are love, and I love you. And I cannot
wait to join you on the next episode of the Jamie Kremlin show. Do you struggle with negative self-talk? Living with a constant mental narrative that you're not good enough is exhausting. I know because I spent most of my life in that habit. The words you say to yourself about yourself
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build unwavering confidence and empower yourself to persevere on the path to your dreams,
you can grab your free guide to stop overthinking and learn to trust yourself at jemikermlimat.com/resources
“or click the link in the show notes below. Who you spend time around is so important as”
energy is contagious and so is self-belief. And I love to hang out with you even more especially if you can use an extra dose of inspiration, which is exactly why I've created my free weekly news
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some tips, tools, joy and love hitting your inbox, I'm your girl. Subscribe at jemikermlimat.com or in the link in the show notes. I am so excited for this book, you know what? Because it's going to say something. You're beautiful but worthy. Get this book. This book, I'm telling you. It's a book that can change anybody's life. Who picks it up. Anybody who's ever felt that they were not. Good enough
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