#2531 - Forrest Galante

[INAUDIBLE] The Joe, Rogan, experience. "Train my day, Joe Rogan, podcasts, my night, all day." [MUSIC PLAYING] My friend, Joe, what's good to say, man?

Pro, it's good to see you. So I've been setting you stuff, because we've been-- I knew that you were coming on it. And I sent you that one that video of the guy who got a true camphoto of a black Panther.

Yep. So is that just a melanistic mountain lion? So is that? It's a great question.

There's never been a melanistic mountain lion.

Nobody's ever seen one ever. Never hit one with a car, never born one captivity, nothing. So mountain lions, by definition, poomas, whatever you want to call them, there's never been a black one ever. But every year, I mean, I got a buddy in Florida

who wears blind that he's seen a black mountain lion

“in his backyard, and yet that photo that you sent me?”

That photo circulates like once every three years. It's bullshit. It's bullshit. It's a real photo. But it's a trail camphoto.

Oh, it wasn't this one. But I think that's the first one. And then there's another one with the cat gets right up to the ones. That ones.

Yeah, that one. So that photo is a real-- I want to say Jaguar, it's hard to tell. But either Jaguar or black leopard, both of which aren't due become melanistic.

And you can tell that 'cause you can see the spots barely, like the rosettes. So all these melanistic cats, like jags and leopard and things that do get melanistic, they still have those rosettes under the black coat.

Yeah, so not a mountain lion. Too bad. And now, it's such a bummer. One day, if somebody finds one, that'll be a huge thing. So that's exactly funny that we want it to be different,

because just a mountain lion itself is amazing. I mean, if they were all black, and there was a tan mountain lion be like, somebody saw a tan.

“100%, it's like whatever is different and rare”

is what people just are like, I want that one thing.

I've always said that about Bigfoot.

Yeah, the Bigfoot is kind of interesting, but not as interesting as in Orca. Like, 100%, we have gorillas that are cooler than Bigfoot. Well, Orca's in particular, because they have languages that we can't decipher.

Languages, specialized diets, some kind-- I'm sure you know this kind of even talk to each other. Right. Yeah, it's unbelievable. It's the same as if you were, I went to India, Africa.

It's like, we can't communicate. We don't eat the same food. We look different and get to us in Orca's in Orca. Right, yeah. And it's super smart.

And huge brains and don't kill people for some strange reasons. Ever. When they're in captivity. That's right. Yeah.

Which is so crazy. I did a thing in Baja Mexico maybe three years ago, where we were just cruising on this little ponga, this little fishing boat, and we saw these Orca's go by. And now people seem to be doing a lot.

But at the time, it was like, nobody had really just tried this. And this was a transient population, which means they primarily eat seals and sea lions, not the stingray eaters. And so we're like, fuck it, let's just go.

And we ran the boat up ahead and jumped in. And the Orca's came up.

And the bull never came up.

So you know, the bull has a huge fin. Like he's the biggest, like the dominant protector of the pod. But the cows and their babies came up and the boat drifted away and me and my buddy Mike. And they just circled us, like just looking at us

with their big eyeballs. And it was me to you from Orca's. And they did like two circles around us. Like what are these things? Then we're just like, man, boring and kept swimming.

They must know, right? If they're that intelligent and they have language and they communicate, they must know that what a person is, right? I think of this.

Oh, dude. I saw the guy that filmed this. This is co-crazy. Orca headbutts a sunfish. So hard to explode.

Boom. Turns into pieces. So this is a newly documented behavior. Just in the last maybe six months, they've found that Orca's will literally explode fish

from impact, whether it's a game or what, but they're finding that this is not the first time this is done, they're doing this. They're starting to just explode these fish on impact just because.

How are they doing that? Like how fast are they going? I do not know the answer to that, but it's impressive. I would have never imagined that would actually be possible, right?

Like how fast can I try it? Like what does the starfish look like? Flat like a stingray. A sunfish, it's like a mollumulla. Those ocean sunfish with the big,

they're pretty huge, six hundred pounds, I get huge. It's funny, they literally turned a dust.

“Dude, I think those are the Orca equivalents”

of like a redneck that wants to hit a turtle on the road. And they're just like, we're bored, let's explode it. Or those guys that do that, have you seen that game? Well, it's not game, but it's, I guess, whatever it is. An activity where these guys just run at each other

full blasts. Dude, R and C run nation, I love that. It's what I do. If you ever think of such a huge fan, you love that.

I love it, because I play rugby. So it's rugby boys that are doing it, right? It's like an Oklahoma drill, except for rugby guys. And that's a drill that when I was playing rugby, we used to do all the time.

Just run in each other. You just run it, it's my favorite, run nation, RNC, it's my favorite thing. I watch everything, look at these guys. I would have never get, they both just went unconscious.

I've such a fan.

“But I've seen it where they both get unconscious.”

I want to bring these guys to the US

and see how they stack up against like NFL line battles. Jesus Christ, they both had butt at each other, dude. Dude, you love fight sports. What are you talking about? It's not a fight sport.

This is just retarded. I'm such a fan. Oh, that's so silly. (laughs) Oh, I don't want to do it to be clear.

I see that you liked that. I know too much about brain damage and you should too if you like rugby. I've had too much brain damage to know too much about brain damage.

No, I'm just kidding. But how long did you play rugby for? Well, I grew up in Zimbabwe and so like Southern Africa, rugby is life, right? So it's like probably deep South football kind of culture.

So I still play, believe it or not, except now I play very intermittently because one game puts me out for weeks. Did you ever get your brain examined? No.

I have not.

But I've only had one concussion in my life.

So I think I'm okay. Oh, that's silly. 'Cause you guaranteed you have sub-concussive trauma. What is sub-concussive trauma?

Well, you don't go unconscious, but you get rattled and then you have some brain damage. You're probably right. Yeah, soccer players get it. Really?

Yeah, soccer players. Yeah, chronic traumatic and cephalopathy. Yeah, that's soccer players get it. I did not know that. Heading the ball.

So is that, and you know a lot about UFC? Is that brain trauma worse than UFC? Type trauma? Well, it's all brain trauma. And it's dependent upon many factors.

It's dependent upon how many times you've been hit. And also there's a gene variation. It's APOE4, is that what it is? Yeah. If you have this one particular gene, it makes you more susceptible

to CTE for some sort of interesting. Yeah. So like, a concussion is when you're brain sort of impacts against your skulls, right? There's that, and I mean, I think it's also,

it's not just that it's like if you get hit in the neck, you can get a concussion. Also, yeah, also a lot of people don't realize, you can get a concussion from getting hit in the body. How does that work?

Because you get rattled. Yeah. Also, another group of people that seem to get CTE are people who ride jet skis. That's wild.

So yeah, does that work? Well, my friend Mark Gordon, he's a doctor who specializes in traumatic brain injuries and treating football players, soldiers, and he treated some fighters as well.

He said that any repeated stress, any banging, anything like that, a banging. Like if you're a fucking headbang, yeah. Like you're probably going to get brain damage. No way.

Yeah, legitimate brain damage. Like I can't remember what I was doing five seconds ago. Where's my keys? I forget what I'm talking about mid-sounds. Did you scare in me here?

“And he's the only thing that I enjoy doing.”

I'm sure I enjoy running straight at people for the last. Yeah, I just, those guys are animals. They're tough guys. No doubt about it. And those Pacific Islanders, like because those

the guys that are doing primarily, right? Like they play rugby league and stuff. They're built different. Oh, yeah. Like they're so hard, it's insane.

Do you remember David Tua? No, David Tua was a heavyweight boxer back in the day who was like one of the most ferocious guys that ever fought in boxing. And it just just built, like, your prototypical island warrior guy.

Yeah, just, that's David Tua, like, just a tank. You don't want to run it at that guy. I'm telling you what. Yeah. I mean, just a monster.

It's not people out.

And so you knocked out John Ruiz, like famously in the first round.

And like something like 30 seconds or something like that was crazy. Different breed, man. Crazy left foot. Yeah. That kind of guy.

I mean, we've got a bunch of the Mark Hunt who's a famous kickboxer. There's another guy that built like that. Yeah, just, just wide as a fucking barn. Yeah, there's like no waste. It's just like a brick.

So he was a rock. Yeah. Again, playing rugby, I played rugby against guys like that and it was the worst. Well, those are the dudes that had the balls to get in a little tiny

boat making across the fucking ocean. And then get your ass. That's what it is. Really, I mean, you think about it. Like, only the super robust survived.

Right. So it's like nature just weeding out any possible weakness. Only the strongest human beings made it. Absolutely natural selection. Absolutely.

Two of the African Americans that we have in North America. Like those are the strongest, best guys that came over here. Right.

“And that's why they're all the most incredible athletes.”

I don't know about all, but you know what I mean? Yeah, I know what you say. Yeah. And also, like when you look at like guys from Iceland, the strong men. Yeah.

So how many strong men are from Iceland? Well, how many fucking Vikings are from Iceland? Like, let's see it. Yeah. Right.

It's weird when you think about it. That nature finds its way. It's the same thing. It's like we think we're so different in above like animals and stuff. It's a natural selection.

We just bring the biggest, the best in the strongest into some area, whether that's Vikings colonizing Iceland or the Samoans on their islands or whatever it happens to be. And you're just like, well, here's a superior population. Because we, all the biggest, best and strongest have made it and all of the weakest have died

Is that weird, like you as a guy who studies wildlife biology?

“Isn't it weird that we want to think of ourselves as being a different thing?”

Like, we are clearly not. We're not. We're not even at the top.

That's the thing that people never understand intellectually.

We are obviously like what we've built. But like, we're not even, we don't even sit at the top of the food chain. But we kind of do because we kill everything else if we want to. Well, because we have, yeah, but not even our brains. It's really, it's other people's brains that invented guns.

It's like, it's not what you would make. True. No, no, that's just interesting. It's like our brains or our evolutionary advantage. It transfers over to people that don't have good genetics.

Yeah. Right? Because you could be built like a bag of shit, like a literal bag of shit and you can kill a grizzly bear with a rifle. That's right.

Kind of nuts. Yeah. It's crazy. He's just sitting there on a ridge. Yep.

This scope of boom, and you kill a 1200 pound codiac brown bear because all of our biological

energy goes into this thing instead of being physically bigger and timidating or other things. We can transfer what we figured out on the other people, which is no other animals ever figured out how to do that. No, it's not crazy. Wild.

Yeah. It's really wild. Yeah. When you think about it, it's like, what if you were studying us, if you were coming from another planet, you were studying us, you'd be like, wow, this one animal is fucking

weird. Yeah, this one. This one's doing something different. Yeah. Absolutely.

But they would still look at us and go, oh, they're definitely animals. Like, look at them. Oh, yeah. If you looked at the earth from an earth shot, you'd look at what we've done and be like, this is the top animal, but they're parasitic and colonizing the whole planet and changing

things and manipulating things, whereas all the other animals are just getting by. Yeah. If we found out that there were actual visiting aliens, there was actual, intelligent life from somewhere else visiting us.

“I think there are a lot of us who probably like, why didn't you help?”

Yeah. Why didn't you come along and say, hey, cut the shit. It reminds me of the, I don't know, do you watch South Park ever? Yes. There was an old South Park episode where earth was like a reality show.

And so let's see who's getting along this week. The zebras are fighting with the giraffes and the people are doing this and it's like, it's like, we're just like a reality show for the universe where you just put a bunch of species, we're like a big, big brother situation. Well, we are kind of that for us.

Oh, tell me. Where we are, that's what a reality show is, a reality show for us is the world. Yeah. You know, Lindsey Graham did he die in a rocket accident or did he die? There was he poison by Russia?

Let's tune in. The Twitter. Find out. Exactly. And it's hilarious.

We are locked in on whatever the fuck is happening all over the world all once. And that's one of the weird things about social media now is that we're constantly being inundated with new things to occupy our attention. Mm-hmm. You know?

Yeah, we have no attention span to watch anything for more than five seconds. But yeah, at the same time, this is the rise of podcasts. Yeah. With your long form. Right.

So it's clear that that's not really the case with everybody. There's enough people that are interested in actual, fascinating things and have an intention span, it's just like we're all susceptible to the brain rod that comes with just scrolling. It's so hard not like I've tried to make conscious decisions because you know, you can

imagine what my Instagram feed looks like, right? It's animal after animal half of its AI now, whatever. And I still try and make a conscious decision to not look at it. And I find myself just reaching for my phone and doing this, it's just, we're wired into it now.

Yeah. Dopamine hits crazy. It's not even really rewarding, which is really terrifying to me because it's not something that's like really feels great. And you barely retain the information.

Like, even if you watch an educational one, and you're like, wow, that was amazing.

You barely retain that information because it's such a quick thing until you're onto the next one, at least for me.

“Yeah, there's a little bit of that there for sure, but I think I've gotten a pretty good”

algorithm lately. So lately, for whatever reason, my algorithm has been really excellent, it's really dialed in where I'm only getting like really fascinating things, so that's a couple of weeks. Yeah. Oh, it's been great.

That's way better. And then every now and then some retarded shit comes on, I just skip through it real quick, and I'm like, I gotta keep this algorithm going good. Or you text me a big foot AI, I think. Big foot budget, so silly.

There's so bad. There's so silly. You actually texted me the big foot one. What was the same guy? You said, the same guy, it texted you back, I was like, I don't think so.

He's like, this guy raised a baby, big foot in secrecy for 10 years. So bad. So bad. So obvious. It's like a shitty AI photograph of like a blurry, polaroid photograph.

And then you read the comments and there's like 400 people going like, oh my God, I can't believe this happened and you're like, come on. I'll do Duncan and I back in the day, like in 2012 or 11, whatever it was when I did that sci-fi show, Joe Rogan questions, everything. We went and hung out with big foot of people.

We actually went big foot hunting. No way. Oh, yeah.

So the woods, the Pacific Northwest, it's kind of sad. Yeah.

Because the way I describe it, I was said, here's what you don't find when you go

looking for big foot, black people. You're more likely to find big foot than you are black people looking for big foot. It's just such a crazy way. You're like, oh my fuckable white guy. Yes.

I don't know what it's staring at shadows. It's making something out of nothing, right? Look at that leaf. It must have been here. It's just unfuckable guys.

It's really what it is. It's, unfortunately, that's really what it is. It's not that there's not something to the story because I think there is something to the story. Yeah.

“I think it's an old story and it's only back to Native Americans, right?”

Not just that. There's how many, we looked this up before, how many different names there are and I think it was more than 50 different native American names. Yeah. That's great.

This guy was dead, by the way, you imagine sitting that close to that thing, how bad that was smell? That's revolting. I mean, the thing's been dead for who knows how long this guy is just hanging out. Yeah, I don't care.

I don't care. I know I look. Fine fun fact. This guy was on your mom's house like 12 years ago. Was he?

Yeah. For what? Is he like a fun guy and Instagram is a dog trainer? That's hilarious. That's hilarious.

Tom found his videos a long time ago and they brought him in to do a podcast with them. I mean, I just don't know. No. I know who this guy is. No way.

I don't know. I got in a big foot. He has big foot's body. No. I don't know.

I got in a big foot. He has big foot's body. Oh, my God. Look at these. Look at him.

Oh, look at him. Oh, my God. Look at these. Look at him. Oh, my God.

Oh, my God. Look at this. Look at this. Oh, my God. Look at this.

Look at this. It's a cake. It's going to be like a cake. Oh, my God. He saw it into it.

Open it up. Tom. Oh, you found a foot. Oh, yeah. Very real.

Very real. Look at foot. That's real.

“Also, if you can't trust a guy in overholes with no shirt, who can you trust?”

The guy's a great shape for his age. He is. Looks ripped. Something lifts it up. Fake big foot all day.

Six or heavy. I think there was, I mean, obviously, we know that Jagantopithecus was real. But we were reading about this the other day that it seems like Jagantopithecus wasn't bipedal and that there was some dispute as to whether or not it was bipedal. But apparently there are some biologists that are saying, you know, it was most like

he walked around like an orangutan. Interesting. Just, oh, wow. Just a huge orangutan. Look and think.

Huh? No, I've heard of it. I didn't know that it wasn't bipedal though. They're fascinating. I think it's under dispute.

I think it's been disputed. That's interesting. That's interesting. It's hard to say. They don't have a lot of bones, right?

They only have like a few jaw bones and some stuff. Of them. Yeah. Dude, I learned something pretty interesting this last week.

“So I just got back from India, literally flew in here from India and we were doing”

some elephant rescues with Ventara, that big Indian wildlife rescue place. Um, this elephant got hit by a car that we went and rescued, so it's leg was all jacked up. Speaking of non bipedal things. So you would think just the elephant would walk with a limp.

Well, having that trunk, it's incredible.

They use that trunk as a limb. So I was watching this elephant walk. I wish I had photos or video to show you, but I was watching this elephant walk and it wouldn't put weight on its leg that was hit by the car. So it would walk with three legs and it's trunk as it's fourth appendage.

Oh, wow. You see, because you think of the size of an elephant's cranium and it's head and the weight. And in order to move that distribution off of that broken leg, it was using this trunk as a limb. It was just, it was incredible.

It was really sad. It was incredible thing to see the way they sort of figured out how to maneuver using that fifth appendage. This episode is brought to you by Zipper Couture. People who go that little extra step like your ride share pointing out the best local places

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That's zippercouture.com/rogan. Zippercouture. Meet your match on Zippercouture. Does the elephant allow people to set its leg? So, you know, is it broken?

I don't know.

So, we went to basically, so I work with this place called Ventara, which is the world's largest wildlife rescue and rehab center.

It's unreal, dude. It would blow your mind. I mean, like, on a whole other level, all privately funded by a non-embodied Indian billionaire guy. The guy who had the huge wedding, if you remember that, it just did.

He's a great dude, him and I are buddies now.

“So, he's funded this world's largest wildlife rescue and rehab.”

It makes a San Diego zoo look like a roadside attraction. I mean, it's like crazy big. And so, he does all these rescues, right? So, the reason I'm telling you all this is they go and respond to these rescues and then take it into this gigantic world's biggest animal hospital that they've built.

So, we went and rescued the elephant and now it's probably by today back in Ventara. Yeah, here you go. And they'll be treating it. So, this is long toy. This is the other one.

We did two rescues. This one was born with play legs and then went into logging. And so, all the weight and stuff from logging. See, you see the play legs on the front there? Ouch.

Yeah.

So, anyway, that was just incredible.

But the short answer is they do let people treat them because these animals are raised by in captivity by what's called Mahutes, which are elephant riders. And it's a really, the whole dynamics really fascinating. So, you grow up with an elephant as a Mahute in Indian culture. And then there's usually one or two Mahutes that spend their life dedicated to the elephant.

And all they do is ride them, log them, they use them as tools. They still love them very much. It's just they use them as a tool. Elephants obviously aren't made to do that. So, they break down over time.

So, that's why it's legs are like that. It's from carrying the amount of weight that comes from logging. So, that one would have been born with a deformity. Okay. But then years of compounding weight and everything else makes its legs like that.

Oh. And it's crazy. And then, yeah. So, we go and we take the elephants in. Plus, the Mahutes and take them all back to Ventara.

Give them the Mahutes a full time job.

“These guys are sleeping on mattresses on the floor, right?”

Take them back and it's a whole thing, reform everybody. It's amazing thing. Yeah. Oh, wow. So, when they treat the elephants, like what do they do for an elephant and as a broken leg?

So, most of it's just pain management, right? Because you can only get so far. So, the one that got hit by-- Can you set them in a cast? Not really.

No. You know, I guess it depends on the fracture. I'm not at that. But I guess it depends on the fracture. But what they do is they have, and Jamie, you might be able to see it.

It's incredible. They have this giant jacuzzi. Like imagine a jacuzzi, the size of your building here, four elephants, and it's their hydrotherapy pool. So, these animals that have terrible arthritis are fucked up feed or bad legs like that. They just spend all day in the water because then there's no weight on their limbs.

Oh, wow. Which is really cool. Do they have medication like anti-inflammatories for elephants? Everything, man. This place uses unbelievable eastern medicine, western medicine.

This crazy hospital. There's a lot of guys talking on their Instagram, unfortunately. But yeah, this was kind of a prosthetic leg. Yeah. I'll look at that.

Isn't that crazy?

So they do these amazing things.

Oh, fuck, man. But yeah, it's a really, really cool place. And we got to do some fun stuff. So I was really privileged to be part of those elephant rascals. He's really emotional when you see an animal like an elephant.

It has so much intelligence. Look you in the eye and be like, I'm in so much pain. And then you start to relieve it. It's cool. I went to visit this place in Thailand a few years back.

That has wild elephants. So they're wild elephants, but you can ride them. And that you feed them. So you have, you have, you'll make friends with them first. Yeah.

You can see them sugar cane. You hang out with them. You pet them. Yep. And then they let you ride them.

Yeah. And they put their arm out. Like there's like good. Yeah. To walk up to step on.

Yeah. So let's, you know, like, okay. Yeah. I didn't like the riding part. I felt wrong to me.

It's a thing that like, all the tourists did. But my family wanted to do this. So I said, okay. Yeah. But it's okay.

But the animals themselves are so sweet. Yeah. Like when you're hanging around with them, they're like, They're so, one of them, I got a video of it on my Instagram. She was just like eating a log.

Yeah. She kept chewing on this log. And I'm just hanging out with her. And I made this like video with me. I'm like, she's eating a log.

I don't know why she's eating this log. But they're so sweet. But it wasn't, it was, it was a weird relationship that they had. And then you wash them at the end of the trip. Yeah. So you get them in the, they get in this pool to speak pond.

Yep. And you could just wash them and hang out with them. And they'll grow like it then. You do that. So the feels good to them.

And thank you. Well, no, thank you for carrying me. There's good and bad. It's like, I mean, elephants have been used through history, right, in war, in logging and circus is everything else.

But now, I would say in the last 20 years,

we're finally sort of waking up to say,

Hey, a lifetime of being on an elephant's back. Like you can see the deformities. You can see the bed soars. You can see the hip display or a hip issues. You know, from carrying people.

Yes, they're carrying people. They're just not designed for it. You know, they look, you think they are when you look at them. And you're like, what could it, you know, we're like an ant on that things back.

But it, it's pretty hard on them. And with the hardest part is actually not you or I or anybody writing them, it's walking on concrete. Oh, because elephants have the soft padded feet. They're not designed for rock hard ground.

So the impact of walking on pavement is actually that compounding

“with weight added weight. That's what's actually so bad about the heat of the comp,”

the asphalt, too. And their dogs like dogs hate the heat of asphalt.

And the weirdest thing about an elephant foot if you look at its anatomy,

they're one of the few animals that walk on their toes. So they don't have toes splitting out like we do. They walk on top of their toes. So that, you know, imagine that compounding on heat, plus weight, um, close up, I guess.

You're, took weird animal.

“Isn't it cool that they thought that that's what a Cyclops was when they found the soil?”

Yeah, because the skull. Yeah, that's why they thought Cyclops was a real thing. Dude, have you ever seen, have you ever been to the Explorers Club in New York City? No. That's worth a visit.

You would love it. They have the Champawatt tiger there, like the most famous man eating tiger. That's the one that killed like 476 people. Yep. Is that what the number?

Uh, surprisingly. I actually have it on my YouTube and I don't remember the name. It's more than 400 people. It's crazy. And then Jim Corbett went and shot it.

Yeah. And he almost named my son Corbett, because I love that story so much. But, um, but they have the only four tusked elephant at the Explorers Club in New York City. Whoa. I'm sure Jamie, you can find a picture of the skull.

Nobody knows why. Total anomaly. Nobody's ever seen it. Nobody knows why.

I think it's the only one in existence, and it literally has four tusks coming out of it.

Just a weird genetic thing. I think so. Like that's play, like, one we look like. Because sometimes with elk, they'll get an injury when they're young. And then they'll get weird deformities of their, their antlers.

But is that different because they shed their antlers every year? So they grow back in weird ways. I don't know. That's a good question. I think it's, um, an injury to the skull.

Yeah. So an injury to like the area where the antler is, like sometimes they just have one sword. Yeah. Like, um, there was a ranch that, um, in California that had this one elk that was killing all the other elk. Because, uh, he didn't have antlers the same way.

Oh, they got a yettyscope. Did you find that, Jamie? I don't know. The level of the interesting thing is you can see there. How about the explorers?

Oh, interesting. Oh, sure. That's legit. Yeah. Um, so this, uh, one elk had, uh, on one side, he had like normal antlers.

Uh-huh. But the other side, he just had a spear. Oh, wow. And so he was just stabbing all these other elk. And it was killing the other elk.

Because this guy doing, wow. Because he, it wasn't, like, they're used to their antlers in our locking. Of course. And it's the thing. Yeah.

Of course. They try to impress the ladies. Yep. Well, there he is. Oh, wow.

The tusks. That's cool. It's so weird. Very weird. Oh, and they're, like, weird.

The way they're, they're going towards each other's weird. Which makes you realize it's a genetic deformity. Right? Because it's not like this perfect symmetrical, like nature made it. It's, it's just, it's a mutation of some kind.

Well, that's just weird about genes, really. Things go, wonky all the time. Someone's born with an extra arm. You're like, okay. Yeah.

Exactly. Sometimes people are born with tails. Oh, yeah. So, so weird. Dude, you, you and I talked about Barbara Russo one time.

The, the pigs that have those crazy. Yeah, they go into their own skulls. My buddy, who's a vet. He just cut a horn out of a stable, you know, a stable antelope. Yeah.

That was growing into its own skull. Oh, God. It's great. I have a video of it on my Instagram.

“If you want to see it, but it's, um, it.”

So it got an injury. So it killed part of the horn. And, you know, they're antelope. They're not deer. So they don't shed their horns.

Right. So they grow forever. So this guy had this giant horn just circling back, punching into its own skull. Oh, you imagine that?

Dude, it was gnarly. The pigs are nuts, though, or whatever that animal's called. The Baba Russo. Yeah. It's technically a pig.

Yeah, yeah. It's like a Indonesian warhog. Yeah. But the way it goes into its own skull, no matter what, like it always happens.

Yeah, but because they have to fight and break them off. And if they don't fight and break them off, it's nature's so weird, man. Yeah. That is fucking crazy. They're so cool.

I wonder what those things taste like. I bet they taste great. I think all this wine tastes great. Hmm. I had to have a lean of it, which is not technically a swine.

It's a pecory. Uh-huh. It wasn't that good. Not good? No.

Huh. That's unfortunate. It's odd. Yeah. Yeah, it's like game.

No. No. Just not the best. Like what you got to think of what they're eating. But what I know about havelin's a garbage primary.

Yeah. I think that's part of the problem. Yeah. Because that's the case with bears. Right.

Like my friend Stephen Nella cooked a bear steak or a bear ham on his friend's smoker.

“And he said to his friend, he said, hey, you should probably clean that smoker.”

It smells like fish. Yeah.

Because I've never cooked fish in that smoker once.

And it was just from the bear. The bear had eaten so much fish that as he was smoking the bear, all you could smell was fish. That's disgusting. It's like eating a seagull. Oh, look at this.

Yeah. It's going right into its head. That's the guy. Wow. Wow.

That's nuts. And it's, yeah. He like cuts the horn off. And you can see because the horns are living thing. There's always that animal still alive.

Barely. Like he had millimeters of growth to go before it punched right into his brain. That's crazy. That's so gnarly. Yeah.

That's so gnarly. Yeah. And imagine that like every day just a tiny little amount more is growing into your brain.

I'm so on through it.

It's how much into the skull it went.

Like it was right there. That's crazy. So gross. I thought you'd like that. I don't know.

That says well, me. Yeah. You don't like that with that. I don't know. It is gnarly, man.

That poor dude now he doesn't have any antlers. Yep. But he's still got a brain. So that helps. Carry on, bro.

Yeah. Nature's a mother fucker dude. Yeah, it's crazy. Where's the thyl scene, man? It's going on.

It's gone pretty cold. Really? Yeah. I mean. So we're coping.

You'd come in with new evidence. I wish I was. There's a group that I've been working with. Like called mammal watching like if you heard a bird watching.

“And they've been going into Western Papua and Papua in New Guinea, which is as you know where I think there could still be a tiny population.”

And so I'm working with them. They're giving trail cameras out to guys. They're still hearing legends here and there. But it's just, I don't know. It feels like the legends are getting fewer and further between, like almost overgenerational time.

It's disappearing if that makes sense. Oh, that's about time. Yeah. That means whatever's left is probably dying off, right? If at all.

Yeah, and I mean, I still hold out hope.

It's something I've always wanted to be.

And I like, I want it to be there. But it just, it feels like those bits of evidence that were compounding have all sort of started to fade. That sucks. I know. It is a very interesting thing with the incredible variety of wildlife that we have that were so fascinated by the ones that might not be alive.

Like the things like the thiosine or the giant sloth. Yeah. I remember I watched this documentary on the giant sloth. This one scientist is biologist who had spent an inordinate amount of time, like years in the Amazon, looking for a giant sloth. And just realizing at some point in time during the documentary, then he might have ruined his career.

Overdoing it. Yeah. You might have been chasing something that doesn't exist. And it's just wild gamble. If he listens to these people and they're telling them the truth.

Right. Because all the natives are like, oh, yeah, bro. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right around the next time. We'll find him tomorrow.

Yeah. I've been there.

“But you know, if you don't follow those leads, like, do you know what the sale is?”

The Asian Unicorn? I've heard that. Yeah. Same thing. Same story, but real animal.

And, you know, there was basically one ever seen by Western science, an animal named Martha.

And for years, scientists, Western scientists, we're going into Vietnam and last. They're going, yeah, yeah, we have this thing called the sale of the Asian Unicorn. And they're like, shut up. You know, and then all of a sudden turns out, here's this giant bovid that still exists. What a cool looking animal, too.

Yeah. And nobody knows whether they still exist now or now. Is that it right there? That's it. Yeah.

So basically, there's been three or four, maybe more that have ever been seen. Most of them caught in poachers, snares, like this one. But then really cool guy named Bill Robashod got a call once from a prince. And he had caught one. And it was in his village.

And he flew in there. And overnight, the poor thing died. And that was the only time, a single Western and history has ever seen a live sila. Oh, wow. And this guy had it.

And then he's like, can we please preserve it? And the king was like, now we're going to eat it. And they ate it. Whoa. Got nothing out of it.

Yeah. He's got pictures and stuff. So you know, it's all, it's all real.

“But they call it the unicorn because its horns are so symmetrical.”

That when you look at it from a side profile looks like one horn. Oh, like that. Exactly. Yeah. That's weird.

Yeah. They're very cool. But it's a bovid. It's a cattle. That's, that's not one.

I don't know why they're using that photo. Oh, how odd. Yeah. But that's the same thing as these, you know, these things around giant slots. And thylocene and bigfoot and everything else.

Right. They are out there. You know, some of them, not all of them. But they are out there. And if you don't follow the lead, if you ignore it, then you miss things like that.

Well, this is also like when you think about things like the Amazon. Like if you ever see footage of the Amazon from above, you go, oh, there's no way you know. That's so big. You look down and you go, oh, well, there's no way you know. Now, this is, this is way too big.

Because no way there's a bunch of people scouring every inch of that place. I mean, given there are still groups of human beings uncontacted. Oh, a lot. Well, well, a friend Paul Rosley. Yeah, I know Paul.

Yeah. He's coming contact with them. Yeah. Multiple times. Yeah. Seating get some aerial footage of flying over the Amazon.

I mean, it's, it's in multiple countries. It's, what is it? Oh, it's true. Bolivia. Where will Brazil?

Argentina. It's cool. Oh, yeah. Big. It's huge.

It's so fucking big. And I had a similar experience in New Guinea talking about thiocene, where we got on a plane in place called Tuffy and flew to another area. Look at this. It was just like this.

For four hours, we didn't see one building. Amazon and 4K. So just a map. Look, there is no fucking way. No, you know what's in there.

No way. There's probably a bunch of shit in there that no one has found. And then there, oh, undeniably, there are. And then there's stuff, you know, like you'll get a kick out of this.

Hmm. What do you think it is? Maybe a surgeon or something like that. Jamie, what do you think a lockness monster is?

“I mean, I think they know, but I don't know.”

I don't know. Whale deck. What? Whale deck. Whale deck.

I don't know. I don't know. Whale deck. Whale deck. I don't know.

I don't know. Whale deck. Whale deck. Whale deck. I don't know.

Whale deck. Whale deck. Whale deck. I don't know.

Maybe it in a second here, I think, but there are these photos of a whale's penis compared

to the Loch Ness monster. Hmm. And I mean, that's certainly not proof, but it kind of answers a lot of, like, that's a whale deck right there. That is a whale deck.

But that photo, I'm pretty sure is a proven hoax. That one is. Yeah. Right. I think that photo is like a guy like made something on a wood and like floated

in the water and took a picture. Yeah. Is that what the story behind that? There's something along those lines. No.

Loch Ness monster isn't a whale penis. Professor says. Oh, okay. Well, if the internet professor says it down. Oh, a professor.

Oh. Well, let's take him seriously. He's out there. If you're the type of professor that they call upon when they're trying to figure out something's a whale deck.

Maybe. Sir, would you please study these nine whale penis and tell us your thoughts on that? Maybe that's what happened. What? He was his claim.

And then he said he was just, like, kind of messing around. I'm sticking with it. I like it. He's the way the guy that proposed it. Oh, darn it.

I like it. There's walked back. His salacious claim. That's so fun. Maybe that's the guy that was looking for the giant sloth.

Yeah. He's like, I need a new angle. This giant sloth thing did not pan out. I like it. Big difference.

If you're a guy looking for a giant sloth in the Amazon, like, where do you look? Good. Good luck finding it.

“You have to find geographically isolated areas.”

You know, because they're little pockets, right? If little pockets of, okay, people aren't coming in here. Animals aren't going out. There's a big ring of mountains. There's whatever it happens to be.

I met a guy who said he guaranteed he knew, you know, all these people like this.

But I always enjoy the story of it.

That there was this pocket in Peru that was completely geographically isolated by the mountains. And that's where they were. And the idea is that these areas remain unchanged, right? It's like an island, basically. Right.

In the Amazon, like things just don't change because it's so isolated from everything else. Well, I think the idea also was that giant sloths, where we know they existed in North America, that, um, whenever whatever happened that ended the ice age, the younger dry is impact, that it didn't affect things below the equator or the equator, was more of a northern hemisphere thing.

Yeah, because the climate shift was so much stronger. Exactly. So the most of the animals that died off, if you look at like the, I think it was 65% of North American megafauna died off during this very short window. Yep.

That that didn't happen right in South America. Right. And that we're just guessing that they're dead. Yeah. Right.

Because if there was a healthy pop, like think how many tigers are there in the wild? I think there's 5,000. Uh, something like that. Yeah. Fun fact.

It's gone way up, by the way. It was down to 400. Fun fact. Yeah. There's, in captivity in Texas.

I know. Then there are an all of the wild of the world. It's. Texas crazy man. It's just people's yards.

Yeah. And private collections in Texas. There's more tigers than all of the wild of the world. It's such an insane statement. That should not exist.

Yeah. I love this statement. It's just a favorite place. Get away with it. It's just a wild place.

Like for all intensive purposes. Yeah. That's hilarious. Wild for people. Dude, I love Texas.

Every time I come to Texas, I'm like this place is great. It's always a fun. Everybody's so nice too. Exactly. That's the best part.

It's like nobody scowls at you. You're getting the elevator in there. Okay. How's your day going? You're like, very friendly.

I'll tell you how it's going. Very, um, a lot of people, especially coastal elites. Mm-hmm. I would like to say like people coastal snobbs. They have this idea of it being like filled with red necks and ignorant people and foolish people.

Yeah. Not that away at all. Especially Austin. Austin is like one of the most like liberal, easy going progressive cities. Yeah.

But like even the progressives here, they're like more reasonable. It's like down to earth. Yeah. It's not extremism, right?

Well, they're definitely more crazy than they were 20 years ago when I first started

coming here. Okay. But wait less crazy than like liberals in LA. Yeah. Or liberals in Cal, or liberals in New York.

“But I just boy, they're where it's just extreme, right?”

Like protests in all these, yeah. Well, it's like this, there's just saying about Austin, keep Austin weird and surrounded. And surrounded. Yeah. What is the answer?

Around it by a red people. Ah. Like it's all red states around you and this is pocket of blue.

I think that's good for everybody. Yeah. I think that's good. It's a balance. Yeah.

The liberals that want to turn taxes blue, like don't. You're going to ruin it. You're going to ruin it for you too. You don't get it. Yeah.

Balance is important. It's like, you can't kill all the predators. Right? Because then the deer will get overrun and you're hitting them with cars. Yep.

And you can't kill all the deer because then there's no food.

“I mean, that's what they did when they are market hunting.”

Yep. Balance. Yep. And you need balance with humans, too. 100%.

And the Austin balance is a great balance. It's a liberal city surrounded by like hardcore Republicans with guns and tigers. And it works. And it all works. It works.

It makes for nice people. Yeah. It's like it's a good mix. Yeah. And a misunderstood mix.

It's interesting. People on the outside, they have a very distorted perception of what Texas is. Especially Austin. Yeah. Well, how do you feel it's a California tribe?

I mean, you bounced around. But it's a California transplant. Did you bring your ass eyeballs? And you're like, I need all that California stuff. What stuff?

I don't know. I mean, I don't know. That's like, that's the thing though, right? It's like, all the Californians coming here and messing it up kind of thing.

I was never one of those.

Yeah. So my, what I got out of California was the comedy store and work. Yeah. And then jujitsu. So like, you get all that here.

The Austin is arguably the jujitsu capital of the world right now. Really? Oh, yeah. Oh, that's interesting.

“There's a swear the new league is based out of?”

No. That's, you mean the UFC league? Yeah. No. Yeah.

It does that in Vegas. Yeah. Because that's where the UFC's headquarters are. Sure. But Austin has Kings World, which is Gordon Ryan's place.

He's got B team is out here. Sean Jeeber. Hiberos out here. Okay. There's a bunch of Gracie Baja schools out here.

There's multiple 10th planet schools out here. It's like, there's an incredible amount of jujitsu out here. So what I'm hearing is this is where to bring Renation, freeing it to all. No. They'll never win.

They'll only be where they're going to win. And those wild New Zealanders, those Australian guys. Those guys will win every time. They're built for that shit. No.

But it's just a great city period. Yeah.

Artistically it's always been like a great music city.

Now it's arguably the comedy capital of the country. Yeah. There's so many comedians here now, right? It's because they've got here and they went, oh, this is way better. There's no traffic.

Yeah. Yeah. And then you can do whatever you want. And also, there's a lot of places to do comedy. Yeah.

Just on my street where my club is. Yeah. This five or six other clubs that have been up since we opened up. Oh, wow. So it's incredible.

So if you're a young comic and you're an established comic, they just want to work out material. You could go go to my club. You hopped on a street to the sunset room, which is my friend Brian's club right down the street.

And you go down the street to the creek in the cave. An amazing club. That's just two seconds away. Oh, cool. It's like one block over.

Everything's close to Vulcan, which is right there. Everything's right there. Huh. It's incredible. It's incredible.

It's great. I'm glad you're so stoked here.

“I remember when the first, maybe the second time we hung out”

down at your show and not West Lake, where was it? Woodland Hills, right? Yeah. And you were like, dude, I got to get out of here. Yeah.

Yeah. I wanted to get out a long time ago. Yeah. And the fun fact, we started the podcast because I was depressed because I had to move back from Colorado.

Oh, really? So I lived in Colorado for a little bit. But my wife got pregnant. And when she was pregnant, it was like, if you are an altitude, we're at 800 feet. Yeah.

It's rough. Yeah. And we went back to LA for a short period of time. And she was fine. Yeah.

And then we went back to Colorado and she was sick again. Yeah. Okay. The number reading about low birth weight, premature birth is a lot of like really bad things

that happened to people. Especially if you're not acclimated. So we moved to these high altitude areas. By the way, working out there, when I worked out there, I thought I was going to die.

And then I went to Philadelphia. And I had to do some gigs in Philadelphia. And I worked out. And I felt like I could run through well. Wow.

You've had so much. Oh, sorry. This is much.

I was like, this is incredible.

As you know, it's on my life. I've ever been altitude adjusted. Yeah. Where my body had adapted. Yeah.

And I was like, there's a mass of advantage. No wonder why fighters do it. And you don't acclimate being up at that height over months or anything else. Oh, I did. Yeah.

I certainly did. Like I could work out there. And I used to. I did jujitsu in Boulder. So Boulder was I was in a place called Gold Hill,

which is 8,500 feet above sea level. And Boulder is like 55. Okay. So I was doing shout out to a mall eastern. My friend, a mall.

He was a jujitsu gym in Boulder. Great place. Okay. And then when I was training there, I was fine. Yeah.

You trained. But you definitely could feel it. Yeah. And I had trained there once before when I had come from L.A.

Like it's like working out in Denver.

Like, "Ooh, you feel it." Yeah. But not like you feel it at 8,500 feet. 8,500 feet was I do this. These kettlebell workouts.

I was doing it. And I'm used to what it does. Yeah. Like I'm used to beat. And I was like, "This is crazy."

It feels like I'm drunk. Yeah. Like it felt. It felt like it really felt like I drank a bottle of whiskey and tried to work out. So tired.

I went to the Himalayas like maybe 4 or 5 years ago to look for red pandas up in the trees. You know, this cute little guys. And day one, I literally maybe made it 400 feet and then had to sit down. And I was like, "All right, we're trekking for pandas. We're heading up into the mountains.

We'll find these pandas."

“And I just, I don't remember what the elevation was.”

But I'd come from Santa Barbara where I live, which is sea level, to this high Himalayas. And I, I just sit down like every 15 minutes. For the first couple days. The most horrifying video the other day. I love this guy who was on one of those summit hikes and slipped.

Oh yeah. His friends watched him slide like all the way down to the day. Just sliding down ice and snow and couldn't stop. And couldn't. And they just had to stand there and watch this guy slide away.

What can you do? Nothing. Was he climbing? Yeah. Yeah, he was starting to use making it to the summit.

And slipped. Yeah. And slipped off the, you know, just a very clear path. And slipped off of it and just started sliding. And he realized, "Oh, he's gone."

That's it. He's going to go off forever. That's crazy. Oh, that's horrible.

Now I always want to like take my kids to do these things with me.

You know, and I'm like, "Oh, I want to take them to track and see the mountains and catch crocodiles." And do all these various things that I like to do. And you realize it's like, "My six-year-old can barely walk in a straight line without falling down." You know what I mean?

Like, imagine taking him on a mountain track. Oh, so scary. But on the other hand, like, you don't want to protect them too much.

“You want to expose them to a certain amount of danger, because I think it's good for them.”

It's good for them. Yeah. It's good for them to experience. It's also good for them to have like a broader understanding of what the world is, right? Like, the world's a bunch of different things.

That's right. It's not just Santa Monica. That's right. Yeah. Oh, there's Costa Rica.

Oh, this is great. Look at these bugs. He's not like birds. Like, there's, it's nice. But it's important.

It's it. Yeah. Because other all you bull. We live in a bubble. Like, America's great.

I say this to my wife all the time. I'm so patriotic. I love this country. It's great. But it's a bubble.

Yeah. Everything's easy. It's safe. You can order shit on your phone. It shows up at your house.

You know, there's a million restaurants to pick from. Obviously, it depends where you live. But you get my point. You get out of here. And it's like, okay.

Everything closes at 4 p.m. Like, go figure out your food. You know what I mean? And then you're like, okay. Well, now I have two kids who are hungry.

And we're in the jungle. Or it's, you know, in a town that everything shuts down on Sundays or whatever. It's like, figure it out. Those are important lessons for little kids to be dynamic and figure out, like, how to rest the world works and that they have to figure out how to get things when it's

not all just at the touch of your, you know, phone. Also to recognize that there's going to be times where you don't have food. Yeah. Like, yeah. People are just so accustomed to having food anytime they're hungry.

And in fact, sometimes they're not even hungry. Oh, yeah. So they start stuffing their face when they're bored.

Which never existed at all of human history.

No. No. Dude, I just read, you might be well read on this. But I just read something interesting. The eight hour night of sleep.

Yes. Invented by a mattress company. You know about this? I didn't know was invented by a mattress company. But I do know that traditionally in the past, people would do two sleep.

That's right. Yeah, this is, yeah. So you know about what I'm talking about. I just read this literally yesterday and one of my dude's curling things. But it's interesting because I did that a lot when I was young where I would wake up in the

middle of the night. And I just decided to watch TV and do something for TV for a few hours. And then I go back to sleep. But that was just for me. It was just like being indulgent because I was single and free and, you know, 25 years old.

And I had my own apartment and I'm like, I do whatever the fuck I want. Yeah. Get up at three o'clock in the morning. Watch TV for a couple hours and go to sleep till noon. Why not sit around your box or eat cereal?

Yeah. That's just part of the myth. Oh, it is. Oh, God damn it. Everything I don't bring it up to the myth.

No way. No way. It's the killer of dreams. It's one of my stuff. I had the same Instagram video you guys saw.

And I thought it was interesting too. Yeah. That is the myth. I think that might be a myth. I think the two sleep thing was a way that people would get up in the middle of the night.

But you also have to think. I think a lot of people went to bed way earlier because it got dark. And we didn't have electricity. And there's a normal circadian rhythm. Yeah.

People get, it gets dark out. You eat. Maybe hang out in front of a campfire for a little while. And then you go to bed. Right.

Right.

“If you've ever gone camping, that's what most people do.”

Most people don't stay up until four in the morning when you're camping. Not without booze. No, no, no. Yeah. If you've got booze, you might be up late.

Telling stories and laughing.

Yeah.

That's when you're up all night.

“If you mentioned pandas, I was going to ask you about it.”

You might seem going around the same places that pandas are fake. Dude. Did you see the zoo in China? A lot of people talk about that. Did you see the zoo in China?

Did you see the zoo in China? I do marines. Yeah. But the thing is about pandas is that. And I went down a rabbit hole this the other night.

There were no depictions of pandas in like ancient Chinese history. No. Is that true? Yeah, it is true. Yeah.

They didn't show up until like, kind of want to say it was like this. Like the 16th century or 17th century. That's bizarre. I wonder why that is. Because you know they were explorers going through the area and all of that.

Well, the idea was that maybe they were engineered to eat bamboo. Because bamboo, if you think about it, is like a very prolific print. Absolutely. Like I have bamboo on my property, that shit just grows like it's crazy. Well, it grows so quickly.

And there's almost no nutritional value in it either. Right. Yeah. So here's the panda. Interesting.

It was largely true with nuance.

“So was that what did you search into proplexity or AI sponsor?”

Is it true that pandas aren't in Chinese ancient history? The claim is largely true though with nuance. Okay. Giant pandas strikingly absent from China's classical cultural record. Unlike the dragon, which is weird, tiger, by the way,

our conversation about it, made it to the view. I don't know if you know about that. The next video. You change your status to dragon believer. It was so funny.

Would you like big eyes to keep believes in dragons? Oh my god. This is wonderful. That's so good. Okay.

So when did it happen? Unlike the dragon tiger crane or tortoise. Doesn't appear on ancient bronze or pottery in tank poetry. Song paintings. One.

Why you A.N. How do you say that? It's me. One. Drama.

Ming novels. Or Q.I.N.G.K. Ming. Ming. Ming.

Before the late 20th century, it had essentially no symbolic role in Chinese civilization. It's status as a national treasure is a post-1949 invention. That's bizarre. After pandas became famous globally in the 20th century, Chinese scholars went back and combed old text looking for them. A few candidate references exist.

The Xi Jinping Book of Oads and Shang Xiu mentioned a creature called Pai or Mo, which some modern scholars retroactively identified as the panda, but the identification is contested. And those same words were also used for leopards taper or mythical beasts. Emperor Wen of Han, second century BCE reportedly had a Mo buried in his mother's tomb. Some times claimed as a panda, but that's it's weird.

That is very bizarre. Fragmentary ambiguous and rare, nothing like the deep iconographic tradition around dragons, phoenixes or tigers. Why the abrogens diell claim. Ah!

I've never even said it before, fuck you!

How dare you perplexity! That is so funny. It's a Rogan style claim.

“I think it's essentially on the podcast also.”

It's listening right now. Because I sometimes will bring in questions I've asked from like last month and I'd be like, "Are you out of my mind?" I didn't. This is a separate research, but it's like I'll walk into the A.I. Mystery.

Oh, I asked it a question once and it said, "As you have previously stated." No way. I was like, whoa. Yeah. I was trying to find out, like, how many views something had gotten?

Yeah. And you're like, "As you have previously stated." It told you, yeah. You're using me as data. This is why A.I. is so fucked up.

Yeah. Like, you trust me? I'm trusting you. Don't trust me at all. I get all my information from you.

Do that so weird. It wasn't weird. Because it's not like, you know, okay. There's no mention of ducks. I get it.

Because there's ducks everywhere, who cares, right? Like, so why do we write about them? But it's not something like that.

I guess we're never so abundant that it was not worth talking about.

Yeah. See if who invented this theory that they were engineered to eat bamboo. So who did this engineering in this theory? But it's a question, like, could it dogs, right? Why do we have dogs?

Right. Which is really weird. You know, why? I have a dog. He's a king Charles Cavalier.

Mm-hmm. You know, those are like, "I do. There's a door up on this." Yeah. He's so cute.

I love him the death. But he's made appearance on the podcast. Oh, nice. He's the furthest thing from a wolf. Like, as far as we've taken a wolf.

Yeah. To make it so fucking adorable and cute. That is what it is. That was at one point in time of wolf. Right.

Somehow another we engineered it down to a dog that's adorable. And just wants to cuddle with you and sit in your lap and play. And weighs 25 pounds. So what happened?

And how did we do that? And could you do that with a bear? And could you get a bear? Then take that bear and make it something. Absolutely.

It's the only bear that's a true herbivore as well. Yeah. I think that's correct. Yeah. Which is our bear.

Yeah. They're digestive tract. Yeah. We changed. Yeah.

And they're required. Like, it's like koalas. I think they only eat. Eucalyptus. That's right.

Yeah. Fucking weird bizarre weird. Also has known nutritional value. And you probably know this.

Makes them like high basically.

So I was looking up who did it and started going on the thing that it's not. No one is known for the theory. It's because they're actually carnivores. Oh, they're attacks. Oh, say.

So that mean. Whalas.

“I think are the ones that are pure herbivores.”

Right. They definitely are. But they're not bears at all. They're a marsupial. Oh, they call them koalas.

Okay. So they're. They say they are taxonomic carnivores. That means taxonomically. They're in the order carnivore.

If that makes sense. So. But it says with a short digestive tract and gut microbiomes of a meat eater. Yeah. Yeah.

That's interesting. So they're vegans. But you could selectively breed for anything to some degree. If you had any other time. But look.

But that's the other thing. Like why they so cute. I think of that. But I think of that. Because there's so much cuter than any other bear.

But far. Like that face. Even with a teeth out like horrible. Buddy. They also have the best PR campaign in history.

Like they're they're the dumbest animals in the world. You know this, right? Really? Oh my god. I don't know if that's the right terminology.

But like you can hand a panda an apple and it will hand you its baby. I'm not choking, dude. You could find videos of this. Well, is there more evidence that it's raised that it's been engineered? Because it doesn't have the instincts that a wild animal would have.

Dude. Their parental instincts are bonkers. Like they will drop their baby and go for an apple.

“That's how zookeepers take their babies away.”

It's. Dude. It's like these guys are trying to go extinct. I swear to God. It's insane.

So where did the theory come from? See if you could find out where the theory came from. That they were engineered to eat bamboo. That's what I asked that exact question. It says just.

Which is start showing up on my Instagram about three months ago. Huh. Did Instagram.

You never know what you're going to get.

Of course. But that's what's fun. Yeah. As long as you don't buy into it. Dude, the problem is even like me and what I do as a biologist.

I can. I mean, I'd say 90% I can tell but there's a 10% where I can't tell if it's AI or real or. And I'm looking at it going while that behavior is wrong. So it has to be AI. But it's crazy.

What's going on? Like the animal space with the AI. Yeah. It's now I watched one today where it was a will to be sort of leopard had jumped on its back. Mm-hmm.

And the will to be jumped into the water and the crocodiles killed the leopard on its back. And then the will to be just got away totally fake. It has to be. Sounds fake. I mean, it's not what it's saying.

Will to be. Is smart all of a sudden. Right. So smart that they figured out all I have to do is get to those crocs and the crops. Also, like you're going to run.

I don't like you're going to give yourself more problems. Right. Into the water. Yeah. By the way, multiple crocodiles.

So why wouldn't they just eat you too? They would. They just kill everything. Kill everybody. If they wouldn't care.

Both of you are compromised.

“It's not going to just grab the leopard on your back.”

It's going to grab you too. Because you can't get away. Anything they can get. Yeah. Yeah.

So it's fake. It's crazy. But it was also fun. Yeah. Exactly.

It's also fun. Get away. A different video. Yeah. Yeah.

So this is a. That's a longer cut of the video. But you can see by like the saturation of the leopard. And the way the claws are kind of like there's no claws. It's almost like softballing it.

You know what I mean? Right. My look how he's hanging on. This could be a video of a real wheel. It'll be just getting eaten by a crock.

And they just added the leopard to the back. That very well. It's pretty. It's pretty amazing. No, that's the crock.

That's a fake. That's not just perfect. Yeah. No, bro. That's real.

Guys, stop. This is different. This one's different. Because this one. Also.

By the way, the wheel to beast is doing way too well. And that's struggle. Yes. The crocodiles do get wheeled to beast. They get them quick.

The leopard got on this one. Someone put some time into this. Yeah. When the crocks get a hold of something is really to wrap. Did I just?

It's not much of a struggle. I just did. I'm probably not supposed to talk about this yet. But I just did this show for discovery. But I've been working on for a couple of years.

Where basically I put myself in the perspective of prey.

So I would have been in the perspective of that wheel to beast. Through engineering and doing all these like builds and stuff like that. And I lowered myself into a pond of crocodiles. It was insane. I had a cage around me.

So very small cage. It was basically a coffin. Man out of what though. What's a cage man out? Whatever the guys in the workshop could find.

I think steel. Do we try it out first? No. I mean, we tested it with nothing in it. And we're like, okay.

This is working. I get sent it to Jamie. I have it on my phone. But it was. Send it to Jamie.

Okay. It was. It was nuts. Why did you do that? I don't know, man.

Those things don't hold up.

You've seen that before, right? Oh, yeah. Where they go straight through the shark cage? Yeah. Yeah, it's craziness.

It's absolutely craziness. I'll find it. Here we go. Dude. We did.

I don't know why I did. Oh, you know what, Jamie? Go on. If you don't mind, go on the discovery Instagram. I think it's there.

Good, good luck finding it. I can send you something in the meantime.

“But I think they posted like a short teaser of it.”

It was nuts though. So I'm in this little cage. We rigged up these cables. Do you wear a scuba gear? So I had a scuba tank with me in case the thing broke.

And I ended up on the bottom. Sounds dumb or out loud. I didn't have so much oxygen before they can get you out. 30 minutes, 30 minutes before. Oh, God, dude.

And I was talking to our guy. So, you know, is a TV production. So there's like stunt coordinators and all the stuff. And I was like, so, okay, cable snaps. I go down.

I grab the regulator.

I've got 30 minutes, 40 minutes in my tank.

Then what? He's like, oh, I have this grappling hook. We'll throw it. Hook it with the grappling hook and pull it out. I'm like, bro, what if you had a log?

He's like, hmm, hadn't thought about that. Why are you getting me out of here? That's not like that. That easily could take one, 30 minutes. Of course, 30 minutes.

So you might have to get out and swim. Oh, I could. Can you get out? I could. I've locked myself into the cage.

There was no getting out. Did this? Yeah, it was pretty dumb. It was cool though because it was such a unique perspective. But I told my wife when I got home from that one.

I was like, yeah, I think this is my last year doing this shit. I got it and it's getting too much now. That's the thing about those kind of shows. It's like it's not enough to just see the animals.

“You have to do something that makes it spectacular enough”

to get people to tune in. Like that polar bear one where the guy got in that big plexiglass box. That literally inspired the whole series. I swear to God.

Yeah. I hate that video. It's crazy. I'm going to watch it a hundred times. I know.

I don't hate it. But I hate the idea of it because it just shows you how predatory polar bears are and how they don't give a fuck. It's just trying to get up that guy. Isn't it crazy?

Yeah, it's not. I mean, it's actively hunting him. Yeah. It's so different than the other bears. Which is like, if you get killed by a grizzly,

generally it's like, you fucked up. Yeah. Like you stumbled upon one that's all startled. Yeah. Or you startled it.

Or you know, you zig when you should have zagged. Have you seen the city in Russia? The abandoned island city where the polar bears have taken over? No. Oh, you got to see this.

It's incredible. I've seen videos of Russia of people getting chased by polar bears. In their town. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

There's like the one where the guy jumps on the snow. We'll be able to run. Yeah. Runs after him. Barely gets away.

There's a whole area in the barring sea that was, uh, I want to say a former mining town or maybe fishing town. And people moved out because it collapsed for whatever reason. This place. Look at this.

And the polar bears have just moved into town. Oh, they're living in the house. They're living in the house. Look at this. They're just like, they took it over as a den.

Completely took it over. How cool is this? That's amazing. They're just fully moved in. Like living in the house.

That's a drone shop. But this was not AI. This was legit. They're so cool looking. Oh, they're the coolest.

They're so interesting.

How amazing is that though?

Imagine like, imagine you're out on a boat. And you're like, oh, man. We've been sailing for three weeks. Oh, look. There's like a little village.

Let's pop in there for a day. That should that be a cool movie. Yeah. That would be a good movie. Yeah.

A bunch of people like how we found a village. Yeah. You like head in and turn, you know, like set up and then all of a sudden you're surrounded. Yeah. Yeah.

It's all polar bags. Why is there so much shit in this house? Yeah. Because they probably just shit right in the house. Oh, yeah.

So they're pawned at the drones. Yeah. Wow. Look how cool they're hanging out the window. Hey, Tom.

Yeah. Come on over. Have a drink. You could put me in the glass box on this island. This looks so cool.

It is so cool. They're an amazing animal. They really are. But they're so weird. They're so long, too.

I went and did a sort of a track with them. Were they getting food on that island? If they're the only ones there? Oh, well, they're the only ones there. But they're the seals and all kinds of other shit.

They'll be hunting all the marine mammals in the area. Yeah. They're the cleanup crew. And they swim huge distances. Oh, yeah.

A couple of turned up in Iceland. Did you know that? Why? Yeah.

“There's, I think, two or three cases of polar bears that have swamped from Greenland to Iceland.”

And made ours that. I'm not sure. But it's not close. Honestly. It took the Vikings like 100 years to do it.

Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. And then you can swim that far. 200 miles.

200 miles. Wow. Are you, hopefully, this isn't a myth. Are you seeing when it says it was shot dead after it did it in 2008? Yeah.

And it's where I'm across, right? Yeah. I mean, that it didn't get off. They don't want to. I agree.

Miles. How crazy is that? Just take a swim one day and end up colonizing an entirely new place. So it's like the David Goggins of polar bears. Yeah.

It says, bro, I can make it feel no pain. Operations to kill the animals captured on film. Let's fucking go. Go. Video might not.

Let's fucking go. Let's see that video. Gotta air for a four or four. Yeah. But is that crazy 200 miles swim?

Right. This doesn't matter. Well, jump tough.

It's just a piece of ice somewhere.

So it could have, you know, got a little float. Right. It could have hung out for a little bit. But still, even 50 miles. That's pretty far.

Well, they can last so long with the fat that's on their body. And they like snooze float. Have you seen that? They like they won't just like actively swim. They'll like kind of like snooze float in between hunting.

It's kind of amazing. In the winter, they have so much fat. You know, the winter stored up. Getting ready to chill because they don't eat as much during the summer. Am I getting this right?

I think so. Right. That they, like, yeah, you seem like snooze floating in the ocean.

“Well, they eat a lot in the summer to get ready for the winter, right?”

Uh, their matat, I know they eat a lot in mid summer. They don't eat a lot. It's too hot for them to actively hunt. I know that. How hot is it too hot for them to actively hunt?

Dude, I went to Manitoba, Canada, to go see them on foot. And it was like 75 degrees at the height of the day. Maybe 70. And, uh, yeah, they wouldn't be hunting. Polar bears were frequently tamed during the middle ages.

What? This is no bears been captured alive in Iceland. Oh, but since then, receding North Pole ISIS, diminishing their hunting and mating grounds and jeopardizing their survival. Hold this sighting in Iceland was 890.

Whoa.

16 years after the first people got there.

But what's crazy if you think about that is, all it would take if people weren't there is two polar bears over the course of polar bears lifetime to wash up on the island. And then you have a population of polar bears there. Right. The male swims there, five years later, the female swims there.

Boom. There's population of bears. So there's plenty of food, you know? What an adventurous female it'd have to be. 1252 Henry III took delivery of a white bear.

Sent him as a gift from King Hacon, the fourth of Norway. He decided to keep it in the tower of London. The bear was either too big or too exciting to be taken to Oxfordshire, where there had been a royal managerie at Woodstock. Since Harry the Henry the first reign.

What's more, it needed to fish. So the beast was sent to the tower and from what we could tell, it was well looked out for, although it had a muzzle and a chain to wear while on land. The sheriffs of London were obliged to lay out more than a shelling a week for its upkeep, which added up over a year to roughly the expected income of a night.

What a wild story. No guns to stop them. What the hell would you do to them? Bows and arrows, I guess, and spears, the bear had a long swimming leash. The man wore waterproof clothes.

What? The keeper? So it had a keeper. The bear came with a Norwegian keeper and the keeper was allowed to lead fishing trips into tams.

How do you say that? Thames. Tams. Which the tower sat. The man wore waterproof clothes.

Again, built to the crown. The bear had a long swimming leash. There were salmon in the tams in those days. So while being in London was probably not half of it, so pleasing the bear sitting on an ice flow.

In the Arctic Circle, it sure beat working. The way this guy wrote this is hilarious, by the way. You know what the sloth bear is? Yeah. Mean is any.

There's their Japan, right? India and into Nepal, in that area. Amazing. They're like a perfect example of not the size of the dog in the fight, but the fight in the dog, because they're not a very big bear,

but they will take on tigers and everything else. They a certain group. I don't know the name of him who tried,

“but I think in India used to capture sloth bears.”

And they put a ring in its nose, like a nose ring. And then this barbaric, it doesn't happen anymore. But then they would take the bear onto the street as a street performer. I just read about this. And they would light a fire and put like a big sheet metal over it.

And then walk the sloth bear onto it. So the bear would dance, because it's feet were burning. Yeah. And yeah, they call it the dancing bear. I guess it was in Nepal.

And yeah, it was a horrific thing that people used to do. Imagine doing that, though. And being like, oh, this will be worth a shilling or two. Like, well bear baiting, these to do that with dogs. They still have a chained up bear, and they were loud dogs to fight the bear.

Yeah, that's crazy. They do that with bulls. Yeah. They have a chained up bulls, and have dogs attack the bulls. Yeah, in South Africa, in the early colonial days, they used to do with baboons.

And let the dogs and the baboons fight and bet money on it. Yeah. People are so gross. It's crazy.

But you know, like, I always have this weird stance.

Do I agree with any of it? Of course not. But we wouldn't be where we were and care about wildlife and conservation. If we hadn't made some of those mistakes. Is that what that is a mistake?

I mean, it's also if you hadn't seen half of your friends get cut in half by swords.

“You're probably the, the your understanding of the value of life is probably completely distorted.”

Completely.

You're living a horrific time. Everyone's died of the plague. Violence is entertainment. Right. Do you know what I mean?

Like that is something to do. And the life value is incredibly low. Right. Life comes and goes. The calcium was wet.

When was that? I don't know. I should, but I don't. I think it was 2,000 plus years ago. Yeah.

Something somewhere around there.

When they first started having these crazy games there.

They used to flood the calcium and do ship battles and things. I went there a few years back and we went on a tour. Was it cool? That was amazing. Yeah.

But it's also like you stand there and you try to take it in. Like when I go to these ancient places, I try to just sit and just try to imagine. Like when you're actually, it's one thing to imagine when you're looking at a photograph or a video. But when you're actually in the spot. Yeah.

You know, like when you're in Athens. Yeah. And you're like, yeah. Standing at the Parthenon. Okay.

What the fuck was this life? Yeah. What was this life? And that was like the center of everything. Everything.

Yeah. Democracy. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly.

And also drugs.

Those guys were high as fuck.

They were all doing drugs. It's true. Because we went to Ulysis. Ulysis, Ulysis, rather. And that's the place where they have the Elucinian mystery schools.

And people would go on this track where they wouldn't eat. They'd walk from Athens and they would have these psychedelic rituals. And you know, you're in this place where they did it. You could like feel it. It's weird.

Well, obviously not synthetic. But were they was it just mushrooms? What were they psychedelics? Totally no. But they have had residue from some of these clay pots that had irgot in it.

What's irgot? So irgot is a fungus that has a very similar psychoactive effect as LSD. Oh, interesting.

“It's, uh, I think it has lycergic acid in it.”

Like what? It would actually, it also kills people. There's been cases of irgot poisoning through wheat. Oh, interesting. People have died.

And they also think it's connected to the Salem witch trials. Oh, driving people crazy. Yes. So the Salem witch trials, I don't know. There's been proven if this is just a theory.

But the idea is that if you haven't early frost and that some of the wheat survives, but the wheat can have this fungus on it that grows irgot. This irgot fungus. And so you're eating this wheat and making beer out of it. And like everybody's trippin' balls.

I think I don't know how fuck I'm with you. That's how you walk on accidental acid. That's hilarious. Yeah. Probably like when this beer's really good.

Right. Until there's a witch. And then you're like, man, this beer's bad.

Well, there's also, I mean, imagine, first of all,

you've got a bunch of crazy superstitions and people are afraid of everything already. Right. You don't know anything about science. You don't understand a thing. Yeah.

So there's a lot of fears. And then there's a lot of people that claim to be the wise people of the town. And they tell you crazy stories about witches. And you're like, oh, which is real. Yep.

Oh, for sure. So licergic acid amides. Ergo metrine. All these share licergic acid, irgling core, which is why LSD semi synthesized from licergic acid is chemically related to Ergo compounds.

And all of this comes from that mold on the way. Yeah.

“I think they're a time where they did it to people on purpose in France.”

I feel like this might have been like a CIA thing. See if you can find that story. God or LSD. Ergo. I think they, they put, because I think they were experimenting on the effects of Ergo.

And I think they like picked it down and said, let's see. Because we know they've done that before. Yeah. We definitely know they've literally just hit a whole place. Yeah, let's see.

Let's see. Yeah. Why not? Like we think about like what we found out during MK Ultra that the CIA was running brothels. And they would give the John's LSD.

Really? It was literally called Operation Midnight climax. And so what they would do is they would have these two Emiris set up. This is proven. This is a Jolly West.

It was the head of MK Ultra. Okay. Who would they would say, let's find out what happens. Do you give people acid? What's the best way?

Well, you get a bunch of people and do it in a way that, you know, totally unethically. But this is the way they're not going to tell. Yeah. You did it to him because they went to a horror house. Yeah.

No one's going to admit they went to a horror house. Right. So you get these guys. They go to the, get depressed. To the proste.

It's like a joke. Like, oh, love it. Of course. Yeah. Hard day at home.

Yeah. Hard day at work here. And he's thinking, oh, I'm going to fuck. This is going to be great. And that's it. They're fucking walls are open walls.

Oh my god. The candles talk it to him. Do you find anything about the French thing? Here it is. I likely think of the infamous.

First breath. Saint Esprit cursed bread incident of 1951. Long running allegation that wasn't ergot at all.

“But a secret CIA, US Army, LSD experiment.”

What happened in Paul Saint Esprit, this small town in southern France, hundreds of residents, suddenly suffered violent hallucinations,

250 people were affected.

50 were committed to asylum. Seven died, including some who left from windows, convinced they could fly or being chased by snakes and tigers. The official French investigation blamed Ergot contaminated rye flour from a local baker.

Classic Ergotism, Saint Anthony's fire. That's another case of it. Some later scientists, or maybe the same story. Some later scientists proposed alternative culprits, mercury, fungicide, nitrogen, trigloride,

bread bleaching agents, or micotoxins from aspergillus, fumigatus, fumigatus. I call bullshit on that. This seems like something where they test. Yeah.

Yeah. It seems like a CIA thing. For sure. 2009 American investigative journalist H.P. Al-Barelli, Al-Barelli, Jr. published a terrible mistake.

Arguing that Ponce Esprit was actually a covert LSD field test run jointly by CIA's MKLT program, and the U.S. Army Special Operations Division at Fort Dettric

was Swiss drug company San Dose who first synthesized LSD,

allegedly supplying the compound. So his evidence included a declassified CIA document quoting

“a San Dose representative saying the Ponce Saint Esprit secret”

is being discussed alongside references to LSD. Oh, they definitely did it. Yeah. It sounds way more likely. That's way more likely.

It testimony he attributed former C.S. CIA, SOD scientist Frank Olson, who died in a 1953 fall from a New York City hotel room after being dose with LSD by his colleagues. What a bunch of athletes there. It's kind of just dosing each other.

It admitted MKLT incident interviews with former U.S. intelligence officials why most historians remain skeptical. The serious pushback came quickly. So symptoms don't match LSD. Victims had gangrene like vaso constriction. Weeks long psychosis and physical necrosis consistent with

Urgot alcohol oils, not a single acute LSD dose.

Interesting. LSD is water soluble and heat sensitive. So baking bread would degrade it. The San Dose cable, alberre, alberrely. Cited is ambiguous and predates the incident in some readings. No corroborating documentation as surface despite extensive MK Ultra.

Declassifications since the 1970s church committee hearings. But the problem with that is like one of the reasons why we know about MK Ultra was evidence that they found that had been in storage. So when you say like freedom of information act, they don't give you shit. It's bait you with a little bit here and there to go.

They'll just tell you we don't have any evidence. Go fuck yourself. I mean, look how hard it is to get the Epstein files. This is a guy that was alive in 2019. Right. Where there were plenty of records of everything happening. Exactly. And the internet.

“This reminds me, do you know about the Lyme disease?”

Oh yeah. You know about this? Like the Plum Island. Oh yeah. Seems very weird.

I'm not a huge conspiracy theorist. This one to me is like a no-brainer. Well, it's also people want to say that Lyme disease has existed forever. Absolutely. True.

Not to the extent that it exists today. Also, not as contaminate. Like not is right. And not as crazy. Like crazy.

Like crazy. Like crazy. Sweeping out west. Not only that. Plum Island.

They were absolutely doing gain of function. Research on ticks. And the idea was. Yeah. The reason why they were doing it.

And this is, this is all me, what I've read. I don't have any directive for me. Yeah. But it's still fun. But what they said was what they were doing was engineering ticks with these diseases.

So what they could do is they could spray them from planes. And they would overwhelm the medical system of any, like overwhelm a town. That's right. overwhelm their armies. You couldn't keep up.

And it wouldn't be able to fight. That's right. And it could wipe out food sources. It had multiple implications. Exactly.

Now we have these fucking creeps from the world economic forum that are talking about the dangers of eating meat. Right. And about how people eating meat is what's wrong with them.

“That's why it's accelerating climate change.”

All horseshit. But they're saying it. And they're saying that is almost a moral obligation to create a tick or to create more ticks that would have this alpha gal in them. The one that makes your allergic to meat.

Yes. So they're saying that they want more of that? Yes. Bro. This guy was talking about, not only that.

I have a buddy who has him.

Uh-huh.

“From Black Rifle Crawf, he's talking about.”

Oh, yeah. I know Evan. Yeah. One of my best friends. Love him to death.

Evan has it. Bad. And it fucks him up. It's not as simple as he's allergic to red meat. Like if fucks up, all of his blood work is his body's a mess.

And he picked it up. Hiking and hunting. He picked it up. He got a tick. And he didn't know.

And he got it. Um, my friend Berkresher, his wife's family. Half of them have this fucking problem. No way. Yeah.

But they live in this house. Yeah. He's toasting. This uh, it's the Texas Lone Star tick. It's a Lone Star tick.

Yeah. Not the Texas Lone Star. Yeah. But this one tick carries this thing.

“And they think that that might perhaps be genetically engineered as well.”

It's crazy. Because there was no alpha gal problem. No. 30, 40 years ago. It just didn't exist.

No, all of a sudden it's like ubiquitous. And it's everywhere. It's spreading too. Yeah. It's crazy.

I, I never used to think twice about getting a tick.

I get ticks all the time. Hiking around doing the stuff. I do. I never used to think twice about now. I'm terrified of.

Yeah. I'm terrified of it now. It's not just the red meat. The lime disease is fucking devastating. Yeah.

You don't have to eat early. It can fuck with you the rest of your life. Uh-huh. Yeah. I know multiple people that have it.

Including, um, Jim Miller guy fights in the UFC. Yeah. Really bad. He talked about his career for quite a while, but he got his diet under wraps. And he figured out, like, what to eat, whatnot to eat.

And now he's fine.

“Do you know about some of those other animal warfare things that you used to do?”

Like the, um, spy tech. They put in Cassidy cats. Do you know about this? No.

Well, do there's some amazing ones.

spy tech and cats. So during World War II, uh, Jamie moved out to confirm what city this was in. Uh, I believe it was the Russians used to put little hearing devices in street cats. Because because the, the, the Brits would go and meet in back alleys and have meetings,

but they were feral cats everywhere. So they'd have all these cats running around with these wires and their brains and stuff. And these little little, yeah, acoustic kiddies. That's it. The CIA.

Children, how crazy is this acoustic kiddie was a central intelligence agency project, launched by the directorate of science and technology in the late 1960s. In the 1960s, it tended to use cats to spy on the Cremlin and Soviet embassies. In an hour-long procedure of veterinary surgeon implanted a microphone in the cat's ear canal and a small radio transmitter at the base of its skull and a thin wire into its fur.

Oh my god. How crazy. Imagine that you're just like having a secret meeting in a back cove, you know, back alley. And there's a cat there. Just live streaming your conversation to the CIA.

Go back up a little bit here. It says, do the cat sense of hunger had to be addressed. And another operation. What? Interesting.

First acoustic kiddie mission was an eave drop on two men in a park. Outside the Soviet embassy in Washington, D.C. The cat was released nearby, but was hit and allegedly killed by a taxi almost immediately. That's probably the thing was all fucked up. Probably couldn't get out.

He's like, what is in my head? Yeah, they put a wire in my head. This gets a friend at cat. However, this is disputed in 2013 by Robert Wallace, a former director of the Office of Technical Service, who said the project was abandoned due to the difficulty of training the cat to behave as required.

And that the equipment was taken out of the cat. The cat was re-sone for a second time and lived for a long and happy life afterwards. Lies. Come on. You fucking killed that cat.

You got him by a taxi, but it was fine. Also get out of his head. But I mean, more than one cat, I'm sure. Yeah. But this idea, the equipment was taken out of the cat.

The fuck you did that. You spent money on taking the equipment out. Did you really like it? Or did you just kill the cat? A hundred percent.

Fucking assholes. Dude, there's a few of these. And the bats that would light fires. You know about those ones? Hold up.

The military did not give up on this use of animals as spies. As a 2006, the Pentagon requested a creation of a cyborg cyborg insects for use in espionage. The crew requests was made by fucking DARPA, of course, of the Pentagon. Scientists had calmerly responded by creating a controllable cyborg beetle in October of 2009. What?

There's a cockroach under your carpet here listening to us somewhere, right now. They're not going to hear anything other than the stuff we already talked about. Yeah, sure, sure. The wonderful thing about having such a retarded shell. He's like, "Okay, just say it all out of here."

Look at this. Look at this. Look at this as a fucking battery in the beetle. Come on, that's bad. Look at the microchip on its back.

It's amazing that the beetle can live through all this.

Yeah, it's pretty amazing. That's wild. Wow. And I guess there's these things have gotten smaller and smaller. Chores and battery technologies increased course.

Think of yourself on an O9 compared to that. Yeah. Fucking wild man. Yeah, there were a few of these. They used to light bats on fire and then they'd send them to roost.

That's going back even, dude, there's spy pigeons where they put cameras.

“There's like, there's a handful of these that the CIA tried.”

Wow, what they do with dolphins. Oh, like the, oh, well, you know the whole, the, um, not beluga. Yeah, what's the beluga, the Russian spy whale? I don't know that. I was talking about dolphins that they use to detonate things.

Oh, tell me about it. These dolphins as like literal distributors of warheads. Oh, really? Get a dolphin to go somewhere and then they blow them up. No way.

I'm going to come a cosy dolphin. I don't know the exact details of it because I got sad when I was reading about it. Oh, it's forca. I have a deep attachment to dolphins. I fucking loved dolphins.

I always say anybody who hates dolphins has to be a bad person.

I've had some experiences with them. I had one where I was like really high on edibles in Hawaii. And the dolphins would jump out of the water near the boat and they look at you. Yeah. They look at you when they were jumping out of the water.

Like look, look at me. Yeah. Like look. They're doing these things. And they're literally just playing.

They're playing. Yeah. 100% playing because they came to the boat and they were jumping in the wake of the boat. Mm-hmm. And the more you would cheer and yay, look at that.

The more they do what they were doing. Yeah. And they were having fun. And I was like, these are incredible creatures. Oh, they totally pick up on your energy.

So the secret dolphin program began in 1959, detect underwater mines and enemy divers. But I think they did stuff where they-- You mean, whether this is correct or they just like--

The one's the history, it says that they didn't do anything

to harm humans or engage in combat. They like tell their handlers to do it. The one that I've heard about is that they put it without a head. They were just signifying in dark water because they could see stuff better than our current technology back then.

So they would echo locate and say, "Yo, we got something over here. Come check it out." That's what this is.

“Well, how's the dolphin communicate that back to the people?”

And how's it know what the person's intended? [LAUGHTER] That's good. That's pretty good. But I think there was some speculation that they actually

used them as weapons, though. Well, have you seen Valt-- not to transition off dolphins, but Valtamir, Valtamir, the Vladimir? I don't know. The Russian spy, Beluga?

No. Okay, is there real thing? Like, like, 100% this one's real. So there was this Beluga whale named Valtamir of Vladimir or something like that.

And he turned up in Norway, and he was escaped from a Russian spy program, and he had a harness with spy gear on him. This is him, right here. Look, see this spy gear on him? It's like a whole thing.

And so the Russians had been training this whale as a spy, and had harnesses and spy equipment on him. And then he just pieced out and turned up in-- I want to say Norway, and then they followed him for a while. And then he mysteriously got shot mysteriously.

Yep. Just things with the dolphin story. I don't know if this is accurate, but I did read this one time that we knew Russia was doing this. We would put some paperwork out that said,

"Well, we've got dolphins that are blowing up minds." Right. So you guys know it. Yeah, now we got to figure that out. Yeah.

That's a good point. That's a good point.

It's like you never really know what's real.

Right. How cool the Beluga whales look though? Look at that thing. That looks like an alien. I mean, look at that.

That looks like a-- We have come to your planet. They're all so close to your use of nuclear power. And he would talk in that very calm tone. That looks like something that would be very calm.

No, that was a-- yeah, this was a crazy thing. But you know the John Lily research with dolphins. Do you know about that? I'm not sure. Okay, John Lily is the guy who invented the sensory deprivation tank.

Oh, yeah. He's the one of those. Yeah, we have one over here. John Lily was the man who was the inspiration for the movie Altered States.

Okay. So John Lily, who was this really interesting guy. And was famously like out there with psychedelics. Like he would-- he would take intermuscular doses of ketamine and jump in the sensory deprivation tank.

Oh, damn. Yeah. Trying to unlock brain things. My friend Todd actually did it with him. Oh, wow.

Yeah. So John Lily, who was also a pioneer in interspecies communication. So they were trying to figure out how to communicate with dolphins. So they set up a house. And this lady lived with the dolphins in the house

to get the dolphin and trying to coach the dolphin. And literally she lived in water. So the water was like, you know, four feet deep. Uh-huh. She lived with this dolphin.

The problem was the dolphin was super horny. Oh, yeah.

“So the only way that she could get this dolphin to cooperate”

was she had a jerk him off. Yeah. She was jerking off the dolphin. And somehow another that they found out and they cut the funding for research.

But she had to do it. That's what I said. You got to do it. That's the joke. She's like, she liked it though.

Look at her. So she's like, yeah. I mean, after a while, I was probably did enjoy a little bit. I mean, what else are you going to do?

You're stuck in a tank with a dolphin. The girl who talked to dolphins. So is there a documentary on this?

Ooh. Is there a clip?

“Is it like blurry where you see your hand moving?”

I don't know. A water turn and white. So I guess.

But if she jerked the dolphin off,

then the dolphin would try to talk to her. But the thing was you can't really get them to, they can't make the noises that we want them to make. They don't have the ability. Like, get say hi.

But it can't, like, the vocal cords aren't there. Right, right, right. That's one of the things where AI may actually start to make a huge difference. Right, right.

Because they are able to decipher a lot of, like, citation, like dolphin away a language now. And with enough of the database, they'll start to be able to say, like, this means this, this means this.

How they actually deciphered? It's, so it's coming up to a, so based, you know, AI works. You have to train it on something. Is it the lady?

She looks like a kind of lady. It would do that. She got a real dolphin jerk look to her. This is just a crazy story to this.

Listen to these Orca whales,

imitate human speech. No, it says it's responding. Let me hear it. Oh, there's your guy. There's my guy.

Yeah. Come here. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Yeah.

It's getting there. It's trying. Yeah. Let me go. Hello.

It's amazing. Hello. One, two. I bet what it wants to say is, let me go.

You fucking asshole. Put me back in the ocean. You crazy bitch. (laughing) Quit jerking me off, buddy.

(laughing) Maybe if they jerked off the killer, where else they went in the killer? - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. (laughing) - It's like, just like, see world alone.

It's just, it's so awful. And it wasn't until those, those, that documentary, what was it called, black fish? - Black fish? - Yeah.

- That was like the first one where people would like,

"Hey, there's really eye opening." - Yeah. - We shouldn't support this at all. I mean, I can't believe people still even go to fucking see world.

- It's pretty crazy. - You know what, basically prison.

“- Do you know about those two in France that are trapped there?”

- No. - Oh, this is interesting. So there is basically a C-World equivalent in France. And the government shut it down, I forget the, I'm sure we can figure it out, but it was shut down,

but then the dolphins and the two orcas were not released. And the guys like these are mine, I'm not releasing them, and I kinda forward to release them or move them. So they've just been sitting in these abandoned tanks

for I wanna say a year now, maybe more. Yeah, this is it here. The race to say these two, Jamie, I don't know if you can see if there's an aerial shot of it, but yeah, they're just sitting in this thing.

But it's closed, the guy kind of forward to feed them because nobody's visiting. And then I believe the government just doesn't wanna do anything about it 'cause they're like we just wanted to shut you down. We don't wanna actually like do anything about it.

So there's just these two orcas sitting in these tanks. - Oh, they get food. I mean, he's feeding them, but he's like doing it out of his pocket and it's like few and far between.

- Oh, man. - So yeah, it's a crazy, they're abandoned whales and they're just sitting in these tanks. - We've had, do you know, filled damages?

“He's a guy who helped shut down Marineland and Canada.”

- Oh, okay, yeah. - Which was an awful, awful place. - That facility, yeah. - There's so many of these fucking places like that. We see what they're doing and just like,

oh, man, if we could understand them. - Yeah. - And I think someday in the future we're gonna look back at the way people today look back at slavery.

- Oh, totally. - We're gonna say, these are intelligent creatures. They just, they just don't have the ability to manipulate their environment like we do. - Yeah.

- But like just dolphins. There's cerebral cortex is 40% larger than a human beings. So, something's going on in there and you think it's okay to put them into swimming pool that's crazy.

- Dude, it's the same thing like what I started about elephants. They're EQ, they're emotional intelligence. We can't even comprehend it. But the way those animals feel like the highs

that an elephant experiences and the lows that experience are way bigger than the highs are lows than most humans. I think any human can experience. Like their EQ is way bigger than ours.

The trauma that they feel from losing a loved one or from being abused or whatever it happens to be is like 10x what humans can even emotionally comprehend. - How do we know that? - Based on their brain scans and whatnot.

I don't know the specifics of it, but because that part of their brain is so much larger than ours. And so, they might not have the same compute of skills as we do mentally,

but they have this emotional intelligence. It's like so much deeper and broader than ours. At least that's my belief. - It is a weird thing with us where we only characterize intelligence

as the ability to manipulate your environment. - Yeah, we want you to write a book.

- I don't trust you. - You're real? You're really smart? - Yeah. - Make a house.

- How come you don't have a rocket ship? - Right. - You're so smart. - Where's your phone? - Right, yeah.

- That's weird. - It's weird, right? - We're weird way to look at things. - Yeah.

“It's like, I think there's a part of people”

that recognize this direction that people, like this classification of intelligence in that way is wrong, but I don't think we can really quantify it yet. And if AI really can decipher a dolphin language, orka language, whale language, they really can.

And we realize that they're actually communicating - God, I would hope that would change our approach to how we deal with those things. - I think it would. - 'Cause I think they are sea people.

- Absolutely. - Yeah. - They just, they don't need to manipulate their environment.

First of all, they can travel 3D.

- Yeah. - They go up, they go down, they go across, they can hold their breath for an hour. They don't need to make a house. - No.

- Their food is everywhere. Also, they're at the top of the fucking food chains. - Right. - Their orcas. - And they're nomadic.

They don't, they don't. We are not nomadic by trade. So we have to manipulate our environment to make it more comfortable. - Orcas are not low.

- Yeah, we do. - They move so fast, they can make a sunfish explosion. - Yeah, straight up, straight up, straight up. - We're so slow. Like the fastest people, we just run into each other

and knock each other unconscious. That's what we could do. - If I'm to watch that. (laughing) - Dude, but I wanna go back to what you said about.

- I agree by the way about Orcas and captivity and whales and things like that. There's this huge anti-zoom movement that I just don't agree with though.

“Like I believe, I agree with you that in the future”

we'll go, why did we keep animals the way we did? And when you look at old zoos and concrete boxes and stuff, but there's so much good that animals and captivity have done, saving species, keeping things alive,

connecting kids to nature. There's a lot of gray area. There's these things and there's fucking San Diego Zoo. You know what I mean? There's a lot of nuance to it.

- San Diego Zoo is an excellent example of a really great zoo. - It's unbelievable. - It's incredible. - I've been to that place before.

- Yeah, but I also went to that wolf place with you. - Yeah. - And that made me sad. - I know. - Yeah, I know.

- I went there, I was bummed out, man. - But at least they're rescuing them, you know? - Like, I know what they also cut their balls off. - Yeah. - That bummed me out hardcore.

- Otherwise they all fight. I mean, but that's the gray area that you had, like, what's the alternative? You know what I was like, they guys, let them lose. - But they're only a few of them were pure wolves.

You can't just let them lose a wolf duster too. - 'Cause then you're muddying genes. It's such a complicated thing. - Well, isn't that the whole reason why black wolves

exist in the first place?

“- I think black wolves exist because it's a trait”

that they got from domesticated dogs. - I read that and then I read it was false and then I read it again. I don't know what the truth behind that is. - It's pretty inappropriate.

- We should. - Well, they'll probably say it's a rogue-ness claim. (laughing) - God, God, God. - God, God, God, God, God.

- God, God, God, God. - I don't know where that's. - You can't get a good. - That's interesting, how do you word that? - Would you say, is it true that black wolves

inherited that trait from domesticated dogs? Because that is one thing that absolutely has happened is that there's been interbreeding between us. - Oh, yeah.

- And not just on purpose. - No, no. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, I mean, you get to say that it's the Watson. - Yeah, that's right.

- Yeah, is the genetic mutation of a black fur color brought about by domestication? - Yes. - Hold on. Is it true that it's true that it's true?

- Sorry. (laughing) - Throwing a lot out of you, Danny. - Is it the track of black wolves that they inherit that from domesticated dogs?

- I had it my thing, man. - That looks like good enough for not. - Eh, from domesticated dogs. - I would, yeah. - Yeah, see what it says.

- Let's say, do do do do do do do do do do do. - Pointed enough, let's start guessing. - I love watching it work, where it's like spinning. - Yes, this is well supported by genetic research. - Black coat color in North American wolves

comes from mutation in the K-Lokus, especially, specifically, excuse me, a three base pair deletion in the CBD103, I don't know what that little thing is. - Yeah, I don't know. - Defense in gene, which is a base of it is?

- I think so. - Produces a dominantly inherited melanistic phenotype, the mutation originated in dogs and moved into wolves through hybridization, not the other way around.

- 2009 study by Anderson at all, first identified

the K-B black allele in wolves is derived from dog wolf interpreting. Follow up work analyzing 331 wolves in 20 dogs, found that North American wolf. How do you say that word?

- Haplow type of haplotype. - Yeah. - Our monofiletic, meaning a thing, I feel like, in my teacher, a fast single. (laughing)

most likely seated the allele through the continent,

“probably in the Yukon or Northwest Territories.”

You know, I went to where colossal, I know. - I know. - Ben texted me when you guys went. - That was interesting experience.

- Was that cool to see? - Yes. - I haven't even seen him, I know it's a whole hush hush. - I brought my youngest daughter and she was cuddling with the four month old wolf.

- Well, there you go. - You can cuddle with her when they're four months old. - Yeah. - It was a certain point, but it was like puppy. - And it was still huge, right?

- It was no, no, no, no. - No, no, no, no, no, it was pretty small. - Yeah. - It's like, uh... (sighing)

- Before he pounds? - Okay. - Okay, okay. - But there's not a roll. - Fucking cute man, and she was so sweet.

She was so sweet, she was so sweet. She would cuddle with you and you'd better and she'd kiss you. - That's cool. - It was like a fucking dog, man.

- That is a, yeah, promulence, there you go, that is in my gosh, she's so sweet, but the males, they had two males that had... - Police, that's her name, that's right. - Police is the girl.

- So there's Romulus? Look how cute they are when they're into babies. - And remiss, Romulus, and then Colisey, the girl. - That's pretty cool. - So Colisey was the one that we got to cuddle with.

- And they're cute. - Oh my God, she was so fucking adorable, but you could only hang out with her for a little while and then they got big. - Yeah.

- Now they're big. - Yeah. - He sends me pictures of it. So they were like that when we went there. - Like that size, but you're that size.

- Yeah, that's already. - Yeah. - I don't know if I run my kids in with a wolf that size. - Well, they kept away from you and we were in a large contained area, but we got to go out with them.

- Yeah. - And they just kind of hang out and look at you. They keep away from you for the most part. - But she didn't, she just ran up. - But she can't be with them yet.

- With the males. - Yeah, she was too little. - In contrasting too, they didn't want her to get killed and just too sketchy, she's just tiny. - Yeah.

- Yeah, yeah. - And she was still a baby still. - But they were older. I think they were a year or close to a year, but they could hang out with them

for the first like five or six months, I think.

- Oh wow. - After a while they just got different. There's also some stuff about them that they didn't even know dire wolves had, like the mane, which is--

- They're getting interesting. - They get an arch mane. - They have a mane. - Oh wow. - Like almost like a lion's.

- Oh wow. - Which they didn't know and they didn't know they were gonna be white either. - No, is that a variant from their genetic mutation work? Or is that something that's just expressing itself?

- A very good question that you'd have to talk to a geneticist about, because like there's a lot of people that don't even agree they're actually dire wolves. - A lot.

- You know a lot. - Yeah, they're essentially saying that what you've done is you've taken the traits of dire wolves and you've made them be expressed in a gray wolf.

“- But that's what Beth says they've done.”

- You know what I mean? She's not, they're not hiding that they're right. We're trying to fill in each. We're trying to make something. - Yes, yeah.

- She's also said that I don't know on a mischaracterized, but essentially what they're saying is, but that's what a dire wolf was. - Right. - Like that they are a wolf that has all of these traits.

- Right. - Like the size is the same, the look is the same. You can get technical and say, "No, you've taken a gray wolf and made it." - Right.

- But yes, but they got those genes specifically from dead dire wolves. - Right. - So it's like, well, what is it our own classification of these things that we're disputing?

- Right. - Because we can't just decide like that this, I call this a dire wolf and that's what it is. Like the genes don't give a fuck what labels you put on. - Not at all.

- You know, and if you make a dinosaur, like that's not a real T-rex. It ate everyone in the city. - Right. - It's a real T-rex.

- So it just took over a fucking city. - Right. - And it just ate everyone in the VW bus. - It's a 30 foot tall lizard. It's a dinosaur.

Like it doesn't matter how you shape it. - Yeah. - Oh, the wooly mouse is really cool too. - Yeah, they really need it. Ben told me one day I could have a wooly mouse.

So I'm holding him to that. (laughing) - It's really interesting seeing the dire wolfs though. And just imagining, wow, what was it like when those things are just roaming the earth? - I know.

- 'Cause it's like a 300 pound wolf that's all white with like thick fur and a main like a lion. - Dude, speaking of roaming the earth,

“have you heard the theory about how a sloth bear stopped?”

Sorry, not sloth bears. Okay, what were the big cave bears doing? Short face. Short face bears stopped human immigration. - Yeah.

- Have you read about that? - Yeah, that's really cool. - Totally makes sense. - That totally does. They're just stood there waiting for people

like salmon to cross the very land bridge. And they're like, well, it's that time of year again. - Also like, who would do that? Knowing that those things are out there. That thing was so big.

- Yeah. - It's like double the size of a polar bear. - It's crazy. - Yeah, it's crazy. - Twice large polar bear that it can run 50 miles.

Look at that thing. - I don't care how smart we are. That is not something you want to face. - Right, even if you have a gun, like good luck. If you have a nine millimeter handgun

and you run across a grizzly bear, you're dead. - Yeah. - It's not gonna be enough firepower. - No. - So what are you gonna hit that thing with?

- Well, they hit rocks. - So, you know, that's good. - Rocks and Spears. - Rocks. - Oh, rocks.

- I mean, when they first started coming across,

did they even have fucking bows and arrows in that? - Yep. - I don't know. - Yeah. - But I mean, Spears for sure, but like that.

But then there's the real question.

- Right.

- When you see the white sands foot prints,

they're 22,000 years old, and you start going, "Okay, well, this predates the Ice Age." - That before any humans were known anywhere in the new world. - Yeah. - So it's like, "Well, what's going on there?"

- Right. - 'Cause this is actual human foot prints that have been dated to 22,000 years ago. - Yeah. - And that's just all we found.

- Yeah. - Right. - That's just because they left foot prints. - Yeah. - Like, that doesn't mean there wasn't something there.

50,000 years before, 100,000 years. - Exactly. - Exactly. - And then there's in Mexico this evidence that looks like predation on mammoth bones by humans.

- Oh, really. - Yes, spearheads and things. - Like carvings into the mammoth bones. - Oh, yeah. - It looks like they're broken open to get marrow.

- Oh, very disputed, right?

- Because there's also some people to think it could have been like some rocks falling on the bones. - Sure. - I'm not sure how this is happening, but it does think they need it.

- Oh, well, let me write this up for Joe. - Fuck off. - I'm at the figure. - I'm at the figure. - I'm at the figure.

- Well, we're going to have to get a separate computer that we only use for complexity. What is the question? - Oh, sorry. Well, how would humans have contested short face bears

on the bearing straight? - Well, yeah, let me write this up for Joe. Fuck off, man. (laughing) Like a baby.

(laughing) - So did the actual evidence? - All of the monster bears kept humans out of North America. Doesn't hold up any longer apparently. - Mm.

- When I was following, people think it was a myth that someone a scientist caught a sort of comment that they'd on a paper, though, doesn't necessarily, he could have thought that, but they didn't really have evidence for it.

“- Well, here's the thing, like the idea of a bear line?”

No, 'cause the problem is,

bears they would have to eat so much to sustain that kind of mass. - Yeah. - That there couldn't really have been a lot of them. - No, but it sure makes sense that they were predating upon people when they came across the whole--

- Oh, hold up, hold up, go back up here. This guy's saying something kooky. He's saying that a hyper carnivore built for pacing long distance. He argued that it was primarily a scavenger

using a size, sense of smell and long-legged gait to kleptoparitas perisotized. - You got it. - There it is. - Kills from lions, dire wolves,

and simitarcats rather than the rundown prey itself. That doesn't even make sense. Long-legged gait would make it faster. - I heard about this, so yeah, the theory is that short-faced bear would come in and rob a kill

like basically what a hyena does to lions. - Or wolves do to mount lions? - Yes, but I think it, to me, it doesn't add up. - Well, you know grizzly bears chase down moose and kill them. - Yes.

- Plenty of videos. I watched a video yesterday of it. - They've also shown now that hyenas are incredibly efficient predators, and until like 10 years ago, we thought hyenas were only scavengers,

or I mean, it's longer than that. But you know what I mean? - Right, now they show they have like a 30% success rate, which is very high. - Yeah, there's no reason why they wouldn't be

if they're carnivores. Like, why would they be completely relying on other animals to do the work for them when they have that kind of biting power? - They're just opportunistic, like, old carnivores.

- And they move as packs. - Yeah. - They work as pack animals, so they kind of move like dogs. - If you're gonna get food, get food. Do you know what I mean?

If you can kill it, kill it. If you can fight something off-board, fight something off-board. Like, it doesn't really matter. That's how carnivores are. - What does this take?

- Wait a second? - Says this is how they hunt brown bears that probably would have done it the same way. - Oh, get him in the den's and then burn it, burn the entrance with fire, probably kill the babies.

- Right, but that's if you had access to fire. - If I had an adult adult in a spear at best and maybe some fire that they could maybe move,

“you know, you know, close you have to be to hit something”

with an adult adult. - Yeah. - Okay, there's some videos that are really interesting where they're showing people realistic scenarios where bears charging you and they pull them down.

- Showing out? - Showing bears prey and guns, like showing them, like a map. Like imagine you have a 10 millimeter semi-automatic pistol and you have to rack it, so you have to rack it slide. - Yeah.

- So the bear's coming, you have to draw the gun, rack it. - Take the safety off. - And then point it towards the animal and squeeze it to your dead.

- You're done, you're ready dead, it's like that. - It has to be like 100 yards away from you as it starts running for you to get a shot off. - I think the idea is the bear gives you some sign. - Look at that bullshit ass thing.

- I've tried one, it is impossible to throw accurately. - Well that's true, but you're not practiced in it. - No, of course not. - Yeah. - I mean, I've seen people that are super accurate with spears.

- Isn't your buddy Adam Green Tree doesn't he do the at-little? (laughing) - He might as well just like, oh yeah. (laughing)

- I think I've seen him probably knows how to do it. - Yeah, but I mean pretty well. - It's not a good weapon. - No, I mean it's definitely better than no weapon,

“but I mean what's the advantage over throwing a spear?”

It just goes further. - Met mechanical leverage. - Yeah. - So I have a thing like that for my dog. It's like a thing at the ball.

- That is a ball and move it.

- And it's so easy to not blow your shoulder out, you can throw it pretty fucking far. - Right. - And every time I do it, I was like, wow, of course, this is way better to get this extra leverage

with this thing. And then also you can kind of whip it with your wrists and you get all this action with the ball. You would do the same thing with a spear, with a little metal, makes sense, makes sense.

- It seems hard to be accurate though. - Super hard. - Well, it's hard to be accurate with a traditional bow. - Right. - You know, it's so hard.

- Yeah. - You know, I shoot a compound bow. And a compound bow is there's so much technology involved. - Oh yeah.

- First of all, I have a laser range finder.

And I'll range something, it says 52 yards. Then I go to my site tape, that's on my site, on my bow. And I dial it to 52 yards because I use archery software that measures the weight of my arrow. So I have this 500 grain arrow.

And then it has the speed, so it's 390 feet per second for 500 grain arrow. And then I put it into this computer and it spits out a site tape so that I can move my pins specifically.

So I could put it in a quarter. - 52 yards if I was accurate enough I'm not. - Yeah, no one really is like, except like really excellent world class archers. - Sure.

- With a traditional bow, you're just guessing. - Yeah. - So you're just guessing the arc of the arrow.

“And then you have to think, okay, I'm buying arrows, right?”

They're made by a guy who's measuring them. They're all down to like, they're within two grains of each other and they have like inserts. My front of center is very high. - Perfect aerodynamics.

- You made at a carbon fiber, these fucking arrows

they're making them by hand. And then they're making the arrow heads by hand. So they could be off each one of them. Like, so you're just guessing where that fucking arrow's gonna go.

And you have to shoot every day to get a real sense of like what the drop is at a certain distance. And then you have to kind of judge how far is he? Is he 20 yards, 30 yards, 50 yards? So even with modern traditional bows,

that sounds like a-- - Yeah, I know what you mean. - Yeah. - Re-curves and long bows, yeah. - Right, I mean, that sounds like an oxymoron, but they are still traditional in the sense of you're not using cams.

- Yeah. - You don't have like a cam that rolls over and it's a mechanical advantage, fiberglass limbs and all this chastes. You're using like wood still, right? Even with those things, you're still buying arrows

and the arrows weigh the same amount. - Yeah, they're perfect. - So if you did that over and over again in your yard, you did it every day for three hours a day, you would get a sense of how far.

And then, if you did it a bunch, you'd get an idea of judging distances. - Turned this like a little tricks. - There's certain archery tournaments where you're not allowed to use a rangefinder.

- Oh, really? - Yeah.

“And so the idea is you have to develop a skill of being--”

and I think these tournaments probably started back when rangefinders didn't exist. - Yeah. - And then when rangefinders did exist, they're like, "Nah, that's cheating." - Keep that out.

- And then the targets are at various-- - Yes, absolutely. - And so guys develop a very good way of measuring distance. - Sure. - And what essentially they do is they can pretty accurately

judge five yards, and then they double that, and then they triple that, and then they try to figure it. And they get within like 10 or 15 yards. - Sure. - But you know, that's a lot.

Even with a compound bow, that drop of 10 or 15 yards is pretty significant.

Even something that's going 300 feet a second.

But when you're doing with a fucking wooden arrow that you made yourself with a stone tip, like one of these bad boys. I have one here somewhere on this desk. - Yeah.

- Here it is. - So like, that's something to make that. So if you make that one, and then somebody else makes one, right next to it, it might be 15 grains different. It might be 50 grains different.

- And the air dynamics are different. - Yeah, the flinting thing is completely different. - Yeah. - Yeah. - This thing's not very air.

- That's not good. (laughs)

“- I think it would plain like a motherfuckers shot it out”

of a really good bow. - And not to mention the stress of, if I don't kill this thing, I'm either gonna die or I'm not gonna eat or, you know, all the other things. - And you have a 15 foot bear.

- Right. - Right. - Yeah, probably bigger. - Like, was the height of a short-face bear or the length?

Like, what is a big short-face bear? - You see those caves they have in like Missouri, they're still claw marks from short-face bears and things. - Really?

- Oh, yeah, you can go visit like middens of them in Missouri where they used to let out a cave, like a den. - Yeah. - Where they lived in Den's and you could see their claw marks in the mud and everything else.

It's amazing. (clears throat) - 11 or 12 feet. - 11 or 12 feet. - Ah, I think they probably have to be bigger than that.

Because Kodiak bears get that big. Kodiak bears can get 12 feet. - Do they get that big? - Yeah, Kodiak? - Yeah.

I mean, maybe they're measuring them squarely 'cause you know, like a lot of times they measure stuff to try to make it seem bigger. So what is the largest Kodiak bear ever killed?

Largest Kodiak bear.

- And if they had it on that picture there?

- Mm. - Largest Kodiak bear ever killed. Ever recorded, there you go. We're recorded the same thing. Okay, they have it by weight.

It's 1656 pounds, which is by the way. - Whole, that's zin' shit, insane. - Yeah, nearly a one ton bear. - Yeah. - That's so crazy.

- The high and foot measured 18 inches. - Oh God, how tall was it? How long was it? - There was 500 pounds more than that. - Oh, yeah, but it's over a ton.

- In a zoo? - A zoo, yeah. - Oh my God. But he might have been fat. - He was fat.

- He might have been a short fat, so. (laughing) - What is the, so what is the longest the largest length?

“- I'm pretty sure he's sitting, I think I've seen this bear”

and he's sitting in the Anchorage airport when you land there. - Oh, there's a big, is that that bear? - I think that's the largest bear ever. - I've seen that.

- Yeah. - I've seen that in Anchorage. That's, that thing's nuts. - At the airport there? - Yeah.

- Yeah, it's in luggage last case. - That's awesome. - Yeah, yeah. - I'm pretty sure that's the biggest bear ever shot. - Look at that one.

Ever recorded 2130 pounds. - No, no length measurement. - Oh, that's insane, hold it. - That is so big. That's so crazy. - Bear, the short face bear, they don't even really know

how much it weighed. They're just basing it on the bones. - Yeah. - Right, they don't have a dead one now. So that, right, that photo up there, that's Fred Bear. With his 1962 World Record Alaskan Bear,

go back to that photo that you just were at before. Yeah, look at that. That's his stuff bear. - Jeez. - He shot that with an old bullshit bow.

- Yeah. - Look at his bow, the reaker bow and that bulls. That bow sucks. - Wooden arrows. That's so crazy.

He was the first modern bow hunter.

- Oh, really? - Yeah, I mean, he's a guy who popularized bow hunting. Fred Bear is a legend, and the bow hunting world. And, I mean, you gotta think, how good does life have to be?

Where you go, let's try to do something that people you should do before guns. - Yeah, just because. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - It wasn't really a thing that people practiced for fun.

Like, the food had to be so readily available. Yeah, we had to say, let's make it harder. - Yeah, go backwards. - Yeah, let's have so much food. Let's make it more difficult.

- Yeah. - And then there's guys today that they don't like compound bows, because they're too easy. - Yeah, they're using reaker of all. - Yeah, yeah.

- That's crazy. - But Fred and Aaron Snyder, who's a, like a world famous bow hunter, went back to using a reaker bow. - Really? It was killing too many things, so the compound bow

felt like it was too easy. - But that's what happens, right? These guys master their craft. And when they spend all that time on it, and then they're like, how do I make the challenge harder?

- Also, they're competing with other world-class bow hunters. Like, they're all like, who's the man? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Yeah, yeah.

- Yeah, yeah. - There's a little bit of that, but it's also like,

“that's how they get good in the first place.”

Like, there's a weird thing about people in competition. You can say competition is bad. Like, okay, are you saying that on your phone? Because how do you think you got a phone? - Yeah.

- You got a phone, because somebody is competing with other people who developed a phone. - It's just a different kind of competition.

- I think competition is essential to human culture.

- It's certainly essential to progress. - Yeah. - And this is why socialism is never going to work. - Yeah, it's got to reward people. - Yeah.

- If they're not rewarded, they're not going to work hard enough to do anything really spectacular. - Why bother? - So you're never going to get a laptop. - Yeah.

- It would have never happened. - Yeah. - You would have never had high speed internet. - Yeah, somebody has to profit wildly. - Yeah, for them to be enthusiastic about spending

17 hours a day making something like that. - But that's the joy of competition paying off. - Yeah. - Right, it is like, I know not so much with bow hunting, but if you're competitive as a person to the point

that you succeed the most at developing a phone or a cup or whatever happens to be you win and you get paid the most. - We just have to have regulations to make sure that those people don't run a mock

and then take over entire countries. - And become a monopoly. - Yeah. - Yeah. What was going on with Microsoft in the 1990s?

You remember all those? Remember that? - What was how are they taking over? - Bill Gates was maniac, like, but still it. But before people think of Bill Gates now,

well, now I think COVID kind of ruined his people's impressions of him can now they think of him as a vaccine pusher. But also as a Philanthro capitalist, we're doing Philanthropy that makes millions

and millions of dollars for him. - Didn't he also put out that anti-protein film? Wasn't that him? - Do you know what I'm talking about? - I think Bill Gates's wife.

- I think Bill Gates's wife. - Bill Gates correct me for him,

“but Bill Gates's wife is vegan, I believe.”

And he funded like some Netflix documentary, all on how like body builders get huge. - Like thinking about James Cameron? - Am I thinking about James Cameron? - I know James Cameron's wife is vegan.

- I might be mixing them up, you know. - You're talking about game changers, that the vegan document, yes, yeah. - With a huge jacked guy being like,

- Yeah, it turns out that the problem,

I think if you're looking at that

“from an ethical perspective and you're saying factory farming”

is bad, I'm on your page. - Totally, I'm with you. - But that had a genuine idea. - But yeah, it's a clear agenda, also just not accurate. Anyway, I pirated your thing on Bill Gates though, sorry.

So the point was, during the 1990s, he was, there was all these trials where they had these monopolistic practices. - Okay. - And they were buying up competition

or destroying competition. Is there just anybody that developed any computer? - Yeah, anybody that developed browsers that competed with, you know, my Windows stuff? - Yeah, here is landmark 1990s trials,

referred to United States versus Microsoft Corporation. Massive anti-trust lawsuit filed by US Department of Justice and 20 states. Key elements included browser war integration, the anti-trust ruling and the appellate settlement.

And so everybody in the '90s thought of him as this guy who was just like ruthless capitalists, it was trying to destroy all the competition. - Okay. So he kind of reinvented himself.

- Gotcha. - And what the way he reinvented himself

was the first of all, he donated

and enormous amount of money to the media. So to NBC, CBS, CNN, and all these different kind, they gave him hundreds of millions of dollars. - Just to flush that basically. - Just to kind of say, guys, I'm your friend.

- I'm your buddy over here, and then he developed the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. And they were really concerned with global health. - Oh my God, dude, do you know what they did

“fucking in the Corbassadelta with their mosquito nets?”

Why would you? But, do you know what I'm talking about at all? - Oh, what they do. - Dude, I'm gonna go on a fucking tirade. - Please do.

- Okay, so the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation decided that there was too much malaria in Africa, right? Which you and I can probably agree with, malaria is bad. So what did they do? They gave all of these people living in tribal villages.

I'm totally pirated to your thing. I'm sorry, but I'm gonna go on a fucking rant here. They gave all these people living in the Corbassadelta, which is the breadbasket of the Zambezi Valley, meaning like, where more fish are born,

it's a nursery for fish, right? Not just there, but this is a good micro example. They gave millions of mosquito nets out to all these people to avoid malaria. Guess what the people who are starving to death

did with their mosquito nets? The fish were them, they fished with them. Mosquito net has a hole that is so small that a mosquito can't get through. So guess what?

These mosquito nets now indiscriminately catch tiny baby fish in areas like Cabora Bassa, where the fish go to breed and reproduce and populate. So now all of a sudden, you have thousands and thousands of people that have been handed nets

that have been living one way for hundreds of thousands of years. They don't give a shit about malaria. They have their own way of dealing with malaria. They sit in smoky huts at night. They sleep with a campfire, everything else.

Yes, they still get malaria some of them, but they deal with their own way. Bill Melinda Gates Foundation come in, hand out millions of mosquito nets, absolutely collapse. The entire population of fish that feed millions of people,

because these people just take the nets and fish all the baby fish out, so that those fish don't grow up to make substantial protein sources. So now, these wonderful philanthropists

that have given out millions of nets have destroyed an ecosystem, crash to fish population, and created widespread hunger for people that otherwise had plenty of resources. All because they were trying to help with their mosquito nets.

Oh God. It's just like it's a fucking disaster, dude. They've taken such a rich and important part of Africa, one of the most abundant freshwater fisheries in the world, and destroyed it because they're helping

by handing out mosquito nets. Good. Yeah, I don't know, sorry, I told you I'm going to rent, but it's like it's so bad what's happened over there. And they're still giving out mosquito nets, by the way.

And you literally watch these guys line up,

take a mosquito net, and it never goes in their house.

It goes straight to catching fish that are this big for them to eat. Oh God. Sorry. No, I mean, it's crazy.

It's still bad for them, 'til it's like, can you just double up the net thing and just get them other nets, too?

“Like, say, hey guys, that's what happens 2018.”

They got the new nets. Oh, you know what it says? Yeah, that's what I am not some looking at the thing. Yeah. But it's getting out other information.

It just totally might have a new and crash the ecosystem. We completely crash it, and it created widespread hunger. In a place that had no hunger. So now you have people with malaria and hunger. Ugh, God.

And it's like done from a place of good intent, or maybe it isn't, and I think that's where you were going. But I don't think it is. Yeah, I think it's a, it's a ruse. And I think what a lot of it is is this thing,

like we are doing philanthropy. Yeah. But then you go, but you're profiting, you're making hundreds of millions of dollars from this philanthropy, right?

Yeah, you're buying goodwill. And you're also on television promoting vaccines. Like why are you, your guy who didn't even graduate college?

I mean, I think we know if you made it out of high school.

Like he's a weird guy, obviously very smart. Yeah, of course. But why, you're not a health expert. And you look like shit. Like why are you promoting health?

Yeah. Like this is great global health. And like it's just a fucking weird guy, man. Yeah. The weirdest thing, if you ever seen that, you know,

he was obviously friends with Jeffrey Epstein or communicated with him and had some sort of relationship. Yes, I didn't know that. Oh, yeah, it's popular. Gotcha.

Well known. I feel like the everybody is connected to Epstein now. Like I've lost a lot of people. But the craziest conversation was there was a woman who was asking him.

“Did he regret his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein?”

And he's just trying to say that the only reason why I talked to Jeffrey Epstein, because Jeffrey Epstein was going to-- he was going to donate money to his philanthropy and all the different things that he's involved in. But it didn't work out.

And I do regret it. And she said, did you-- I forget what her question was. But Gates says, well, he's dead now. So there's that.

There's something about it. It's got to be careful. Like it's like a weird like veil threat. It's very odd the way he answers. Yeah.

Yeah. Essentially saying that I'm reading it like-- Yeah, like that's what I'm reading. Interesting. Weird.

Find that. I was sure. Well, you find that. I was talking to some buddies about this, just like standard bro chat.

If Epstein happened today, right? And you had no knowledge of the weird stuff going on on the island. Like you would be invited. You know what I mean? They'd be like, hey, Joe.

Did they did invite me? Oh, really? Oh, yeah. 2017. I might not specifically, but to meet Epstein.

But that's what I'm saying. And I was like, what? If that happened today-- What's your guy came to me? Oh, sorry.

Oh, this looks like that. Yeah, let's do it. Ported at that time that you had a number of meetings with Jeffrey Epstein, who, when you met him 10 years ago, he was convicted of soliciting prostitution from minors.

“What did you know about him when you were meeting with him?”

As you've said yourself, in the hopes of raising money? You know, I had dinners with him. I regret doing that. He had relationships with people. He said, you know, would give to global health, which is an interest I have.

You know, not nearly enough philanthropy goes in that direction. You know, those meetings were a mistake. They didn't result in what he purported. And I cut them off. You know, that goes back to long time ago now, there's nothing new on that.

It was reported that you continued to meet with him over several years. And that, in other words, a number of meetings, what did you do when you found out about his background? Well, you know, I said I regretted having those dinners. And there's nothing, absolutely nothing new on that.

Is there a lesson for you, for anyone else looking at this?

Well, he's dead, so, you know, in general, you always have to be careful.

And you know, I'm very proud of what we've done in philanthropy, very proud of the work of the foundation. We shared. First of all, the record scratch. You have billions of dollars, right, and this guy didn't give you money for years.

Right. And you still get money for years. You kept meeting. Yeah. What about your money?

What is it? What is it going to give you? How much does he have? Especially compared to Bill Gates.

“But he also probably doesn't have a fraction of what you have, right?”

So, like, if like, Elon started hitting me up to donate money to something, I'd be like, "Hey, bitch, won't you?" Like, "Did you get how much money you have?" Yeah, so much money. Why would you?

Why would you? To me for years. For years. It's a question. Try to get me to donate.

Like, it's kind of similar. Right? This is what we're talking about. He's a billionaire. Right.

Like, hundreds of billions of dollars. Yeah. Not if it makes any sense. No. Like, I was providing a party for rich people.

That's what he was doing. He was providing away with these rich people, can fuck in. Let their hair down, and have a good all-time, and do Coke, or whatever they do. That's what it was, really. Right?

It was just like, come at, but the party had no rules. And that's what makes it. I'm just guessing. I'm just guessing. But I had a guy who tried to get me to meet him in 2017.

In LA, or where? Oh, I was in LA when he reached out to me. Absene to peer to have drafted himself, claiming Gates had, he wrote it to himself. Right. This is an email that Epstein appears to have drafted to himself, claiming that Gates had

contracted an STI from encounters with Russian girls and he had antibiotics from Melinda.

Gates said the emails were never sent and are false.

So absurd that someone could get an STD from a Russian girl, Gates has separately admitted to affairs with two Russian women, and with a Microsoft employee. But it says none of them can connect it to Epstein or his victims. Some people say those emails were like a journal he was keeping. Like, why would you keep the mail himself?

They were opposite. Well, he wrote on an iPad all the time, apparently.

“That's why the typos were so bad, and he'd just like to email.”

You know, I mean, imagine that's your journal, but why would you do that? Why would you make up a story about a guy having STDs? I think more likely, because there was a rumor, and this is an unsubstantiated rumor, and we were clear, that Epstein was trying to blackmail Gates with some story about a bridge player that he was having an affair with.

No, and dressed up, Russian bridge player. I also think they've intentionally flooded the internet with so much misinformation.

Perhaps, but my point was, if he could have drafted that email, which was never sent,

and then sent the draft to Bill Gates or showed it to him. Yeah, and say, "What do you think about this?" Right, so I could just... If you don't. Yeah.

How about you shut the fuck up? Yeah, yeah. What do you give me some money? How about you, you know, because there was a bunch of, well, there was a bunch of people that gave him a lot of money.

The game hasn't seen a lot of money? Oh, yeah, yeah. In fact, the guy, the Victoria Secrets guy gave him a house. I gave him a house on the control of it. 100% of his finances, so he wasn't just he gave it to him.

Oh, 100% taken it, or, you know, and he goes like, "I didn't know what he was doing." Wait, so did you think of-- Did he fund that house, right? Did he fund the Victoria Secrets guy to start Victoria Secrets? No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

“That's how he got involved after that guy's, uh, let's go through a deep.”

So, Columbus did I got, uh, he was going to go talk to the IRS about specifically what I don't know in 1984, but he was like the tax guy for that company. He was murdered in a mob hit style. Dude, that's why I like this podcast. I'm just like an animal nerd.

I like talking about snakes, and I'm like, "Find out about the Victoria Secrets." And have steaming shit as well. Well, it's what the human animal does. Yeah. The human animal, when it's in these very controlled spaces, where just, so let's look

at it this way. So imagine your a guy who's, uh, especially if you're a nerd, and, you know, you

were never really good with women, and you're in high school.

So college. Well, and also, and you have literally a hundred billion dollars, yeah. And you can just get prostitutes anytime you want. And I guess if you get the really high n ones, they know how to shut the fuck up. Sure.

And if you know, you have this friend of yours who's in the massage, and that guy can get the best hookers. It's got a fucking island. You go to the island. It's the best.

Yeah. We fly. We talk about philanthropy. We fuck. Yeah.

It makes sense. I mean, that's what I'm saying before. So you can come here with a lot of money. But there's also some weird science connection with him.

“And that's what the work it's really odd is that there's, he got that ranch in New Mexico.”

So he could be close to the guys that were working at Los Alamos, who were famously not making much money. So he's around these guys, and he's talking about going into business with them and giving them this chance to make an insane amount of money. And this is what he did with Eric Weinstein, which Eric Weinstein, he contacted

him, and they had a meeting. And he was trying to get Eric Weinstein to do something with him, and if Eric did it, he had the potential to make an enormous amount of money. And Eric is very wise, and he just didn't buy him from the start. He's like, yeah.

He's like, yeah. Everything about him, he's like, he doesn't know anything about finance. He was talking to him. He's like, this guy's a construct. He's not, there's not a real finance guy.

Yeah. He's like, there's something going on. So Wheeler and Dealer. So wait, what was the science they were working on? A bunch of different physicists were connected to him.

Einstein reportedly hoped to develop super race of humans with his DNA. Wow. Wow. What is that from? That's the new time.

That's the new time. I got a different one of the article. Oh my god. The guy was in New York Times. That is crazy.

But he had a bunch of relationships with some very impressive scientists and physicists. And also oddly connected to the whole UAP world. The whole Los Alamos things weird, because the thing is that he, by buying that ranch in New Mexico, put him close to Los Alamos, which was in New Mexico, and then he had access to all these scientists that were famously underpaid.

Right. So these guys were not making much money, and he was this incredibly wealthy guy through no way that anybody could ever rationally train. That's right. Yeah.

It was all weird. And who knows what he was trying to get them to do?

He was probably just one of those guys, I mean, you never ended up meeting him, but he was

probably just incredibly likable as a con man. Do you know what I mean? You probably sat in a room with him, and you're like, wow, this guy's really great. Maybe I should give him some money. Maybe I should, like, what a cool guy, and he's just a dirt bag under the, you know, under

We're just speculating, but maybe, maybe also, if you have a bunch of really hot Russian

chicks that are hanging out with you, that'll do it. You don't need to be that charming. That's so true. It's so true. We were a billionaire with a bunch of hot Russian chicks.

Yeah. There's a bunch of people that are willing to hang out with billionaires, just because I've seen it where people just get enamored by the fact that someone's insanely wealthy and they want to go to the party at their house. Like, woo.

But all those people do his work like crazy. Do you know what I mean? They're not fun. I mean, I don't know. I don't know that, many of those guys.

That's true. That guy's party hard. Yeah. Good point. Yeah.

To via billionaires.

“To, I mean, in most cases, what you have to do is be insanely driven.”

Yeah. You have to be that guy that works 18, 20 hours a day and, you know, and give up all the other things. Yeah. You have to give up all your time.

Exactly. And that becomes your whole life. Yeah. And I think that's also why they wanted a guy like that that could provide them. This is a white Eric Weinstein described it.

He said he provided them with experience as I believe. Yeah. That was his. And I think he's right. I think that makes sense.

So I mean, my one and only billionaire friend is that, not a body that Indian guy I was mentioning. I think it's so cool. He's built this gigantic wildlife rescue. That is pretty dope.

Because he's a great thing to do with money. He's just like, he's a nerd like me and if he hears this, it's going to be like, thanks a lot. But like, he's just an animal nerd. Do you know what I mean?

He's going to be like, he just like, he just loves animals and conservation and he's like, I have generational wealth that might, you know, it came from his family's family's like, fifth or sixth generation of having huge industry and he's like, okay. So with my excess money, I'm going to rescue animals instead of do other, you know, that's very cool.

That's very cool.

I mean, for me, it's amazing.

Yeah. I mean, this doesn't look. There's nothing wrong with space race stuff, too. It's all fascinating. No, but it's just, it's, and I get it from a perspective of people who think there's

not enough money in the world and then why do these people have so much money and they should give all their money away and like, okay, but you could do that all the way down till like $100,000 a year if you really wanted to do it, especially when you compare yourself to everyone else in the world. That's right.

That's right. We're in the, it's just living in this country alone, we're in the 1%. Yeah. Most people. 1% of the world, we look this up, it's like $50,000, if you make more than that, you're

like 1% of earth. Right. And that's the majority of people in the United States. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, you're barely getting buying America and you're in the 1% of the world.

Exactly. Which is wild. It's wild. It really is. Yeah.

We're, we're the weirdest animal. You just study us. I should. Why learn a lot today. I'll tell you why.

Yeah, but we're not fun, like you, you study us and you go, oh God, what are they fucking doing? Where's your study animals? You're like, oh fucking cool. They're way cooler.

They're way more interesting. More teeth, more claws, more slithering. Well it's also just the fact that there's so much variety and that they are real, and that they are, and some of them are so strange.

“How about that new monkey that they just found in the Congo?”

With the lipstick, crazy little monkey, orange, orange, my health. Yeah, it looks like he's a little like one of them freeze pops. Yeah, exactly. Like your kid after, yeah, 100 dude, it's so cool. A new primate species coming out still, like, I love that.

I think it's so great. Do you believe in the Bondo ape? Do you think that thing is, yes and no, like there's probably likely a group of chimpanzees. Do you know what I mean? Then that just are more aggressive that are a social construct and are larger.

And are larger. But it doesn't mean that it's like this, you know, because they have the whole thing about them being lying, killing apes and all this other stuff, there's probably a family troop, a group, and you know they're in war now, have you read about this? Yeah.

So I think that's crazy. The Bondo ape is real in the sense of there is probably an isolated larger group of chimps that just act like chimps. The thing about this chimps, those, they said that they're skulls are different. Yeah, the cranial ridge, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Makes sense. Things with stronger jaw muscles have a cranial ridge, you know, you see it in hyenas, you see it in things like that. Gorillas. Yeah, Gorillas.

Yeah, exactly.

It's just more, more surface error for the muscle to attach to, basically.

It's just like that would be so fascinating to find those thing. And that's with, you know, that Carl Armand guy, spent his whole life hunting, reading rumors. But at least he got some photos, unlike that poor fucker that was looking for the sloth. Yeah, still still trying.

Yeah.

“He got some camera trap photos of them, and they were bipedal in the photos, right?”

And yeah. So a lot of them. Which chimps are? Yeah. They'll walk on hind legs and stuff.

Yeah, it's pretty cool. It is pretty cool. So the one that they killed that was at the airport, do you know, you see that one? One thing. Oh, it's crazy.

At the airport. Yeah, there's a small airport, and they killed this one enormous chimpanzee. So there's just two guys that are standing with it. It's hard to tell how big the guys are, but a normal size human being. That's the biggest fucking chimpanzee I've ever seen in my life.

Yeah, it's you. Look at that thing. They're amazing. Look at that. I mean, the guy is, you could tell by perspective that the guy's, he's got his hand on it.

So he's right behind it. Yeah. Yeah, it's not a force perspective.

Yeah. And that chimpanzee looks way bigger than him. Way bigger. Yeah, it's amazing. So they think that is one of them.

Yeah.

“Yeah, like I said, I think it's real in the sense, oh, yeah, this famous photo.”

See, but that one just to me looks like a chimpanzee. That just looks like a big jump. Yeah. Where the one that's sitting down, that looks way bigger than those guys. The size of a tad is fucking enormous.

You know that there's one river where, um, trying to remember exactly how this works.

But basically, there's one area where the rivers collide, where the chimps and the gorillas

go into conflict with each other over this one river spot. Do you know what I'm talking about? Have you ever heard about this? Yeah, it's really interesting. So somewhere in the Congo, there's this particular river.

And I think it's called the cross river, car member now. And it's an area that the chimps will come on one side and the gorillas will come down on the other and they will have the like throw stuff at each other across the river. And like it's like a whole thing that it's been documented and these guys will, there's sort of these like two clans of great apes that come and communicate across the river and

throw rocks and like show off to each other and then they kind of go back into the jungle. But it's been seen in this one particular river several times. Wow. Yeah. Like the real planet of the earth.

What does a chimped wars? What are they fighting over food territory? In less I'm mistaken, it's relatively unknown, but it's sort of a social construct. So if you think of humans, for example, once our population gets too large and we have too many men and not enough women we fight, right?

We've seen that throughout history, Roman times, Mongolian times, you name it. So there is one troop of chimps that all live together in relative harmony and then two

leaders basically sprung up and there was a lack of enough females.

So all of a sudden this this clan divided into two clans and now they're at constant war with each other. Like they live in the same relative territory, but they'll come in with come into contact with each other and go to war over who's going to be the leader of the alpha troop, the mega troop.

And it's been going for maybe a year or two years now. Fuck. Yeah. But how human is that? So human.

Like to be like, okay, we're all part of this group, like you and I don't like each other now. This is my side. That's your side. We're going to fuck each other up.

“Is that any highlights friends with benefits relationship between gorillas and chimps?”

What? They're fucking each other? No, it's a lot younger ones hanging out. It says it's I've probably in the same area they're meeting pictures of them like in the same church.

Yeah, I think this is that river and for fake that want figs out of these trees. Yeah, what friends with benefits generally benefits are, yeah, I was looking for wording that got to what you're getting at. But you don't really say that with like, why do you go to dinner with Bob while we're friends with benefits?

Oh, you're fucking Bob? Yeah. When did you start fucking Bob, man? No, no, no, we just like figs both of us. Yeah.

The chimps ease though. They cut them feeding their chest, which is only something gorillas ever. Yeah. Yeah. They're, they're imitating.

Mimicking each other. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. I'm sure you've seen that one documentary, I think it's called relentless enemies,

where there's a particular pride of lions that grew enormous because they're only eating water buffaloes. They got trapped on an island because the river changed paths. Yeah. Yeah.

I remember what you're talking about. I don't know the documentary, but yeah, they're eating Cape Buffalo exclusively. Yeah. And the lions are just getting bigger and beefier, and they're all fat and like, yeah, it's pretty cool.

Well, they have to get bigger. The females are doing all the killing. Yeah. So their as big as male lions in other places. Yeah.

And they're chacked. And they have a choice. Yeah. Because otherwise, they're going to die. Exactly.

They're trying to hunt the Cape Buffalo. Right. But it's so we're watching natural selection in real time, because they're just keeping bigger and stronger, and they're jumping on these things and hanging on them and trying to drag them down the ground.

The black death. That's what they call the Cape Buffalo. Yeah. Those motherfuckers are so scary. So mean.

So scary. Yeah. And they'll charge so unprovoked, like they'll just turn and come any time. But it's crazy how you have that basically insular dwarfism and insular gigantism throughout animals.

No matter like animal stuck on an island, they're either going to get bigger. They're going to get small. Well, lizards usually get big on an island, right? We're tortoises. Right?

Like the Galapagos or the Seychelles? Yeah. Why? Why do they get bigger? No predators.

Unlimited resources. Yeah. So all of a sudden, you're a little tortoise that's this big and every time you get to this big something spots you from the air and eats you or whatever it happens to be. But now you're stuck on an island with all the grass and fruit you could ever eat.

And nobody wants to eat you, so you just get bigger and bigger to have a complete other. Look at that face. Yeah. Look at those guys.

“I imagine that's the only thing you can eat is something that's three times bigger”

than you. They can fucking kill you. That kills a lot of lions by the way. Oh, yeah. Kick in the face.

When we're trying to take them out and then that's it.

Your jaws broken and you'll never eat again and you starve to death slowly.

I love the little, the little cub there covered in blood.

It's a really cool documentary. Yeah. It seems so weird when you're looking at the size of the females. They just look exaggerated to the point where they look fake. They look like Hulk lines.

It's awesome. It's very cool. Very, very cool. Nature is such a wild thing, man. I mean, it's such an amazing, fascinating, endless resource of just cool shit to see.

And our understanding of it changes all the time. Every animal theory we've ever had evolves and changes as we learn more, which is what makes it so fun. It's so dynamic. It's not a static thing.

“What's just crazy that we keep finding new things, like the new primate?”

Well, do you find that little new monkey that they found? With the orange lips. He's really cool. He's in the Congo. Well, the Congo is another place.

It's like, what? Yeah. I've seen you've seen that BBC documentary in the Congo from the cows, like the early 2000s. But look at him.

Yeah. You had a good looking guy. So cool. So strange. There's a few lost primates out there, too.

Like species that we've seen once or twice that never been seen since that, like what?

Miss Waldron's red colabus is one that comes to mind. So it's called Miss Waldron's red colabus. I think it's called that. I mean, it's just Waldron's red colabus. But it's a call of this monkey that there's like three or four museum specimens and

no live specimens. Yeah. Really. There's a few of those. Yeah.

Oh. Miss Waldron's. Yeah, red colabus. Why has it called Miss Waldron? I don't know.

Who's that lady? Good question. Yeah.

“What do you have to do with this monkey lady?”

After West Africa, previously described as subspecies. It's not been cited since, oh, I saw it for a second. And what's crazy is a lot of these animals, especially amongst these primates and essentially anything that lives in the Congo is in a place that's so scary and so dangerous to visit. Yeah.

That is not a lot of research being done.

Well, that's always what I tell people when they're like, oh, well, you know, fine

these animals, fine that animals, nobody's looking. It's too hard. Local people know they're there. Like these lost species are species that the people that hunt and eat them know they're there, but they have no communication to the outside of the scientific world.

And, you know, for you or I to go into that part of the Congo is probably a death sentence. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But there's a lot of cool stuff out there.

Are there any other animals that might be real that people think they've seen as far as like cryptids? Yeah. Weird ones. I mean, like the giant sloth or something like that.

I mean, there's that hole like the dinosaur in the Congo thing that people always talk about. It's not real. That one seems so. I mean, I can't think of any. I think, you know, like the show went looking for that one.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I actually, that's one of your pods that I watched the whole thing and he was talking about that.

David's crazy. Yeah. I can't think of any, but, you know, it's, it's those rumors like there's a slot. We've seen it. There's an Asian unicorn.

We've seen it. You can follow. You never know. It's like you can, you can absolutely be the tinfoil hack guy like I can be with the thylocene.

But if you give up and don't look, you know, we never really know.

And if it, it's going to be, it'll probably be in a place like the Amazon or like the Congo. So enormous. Like the, isn't the Congo as wide as the contiguous North America, the country or the river?

I think the country of the Congo, the, the Congo, the, the jungle, the Congo. I think it's almost as big as America, and I don't know who's that large Africa. It's falkin' huge. It's huge. If you see, because United States imposed on Africa, you're like, oh, my God, I thought

to be in Africa's enormous.

“But that's what's squirrely about maps, right?”

Especially like when you get the globe, like everything's so distorted, which I don't understand why they do that. No, I've never had that explained to me in a way that like, oh, I get it. Or timelines. Have you ever looked at how, like, timelines are drawn on the globe, like, like, um,

you know, like the right. Oh, right. Right. Right. So we're, like, jigsaw puzzle.

Yeah. And you're like, why is that island in this time zone that's three slots over? Like it makes no sense. It doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make any sense.

Yeah. But like, see if you can find the size of the Congo, like, if you see the size of the Congo verse, I think it's almost as big as the United States, in terms of the way to realize that. It's the same.

Yeah. There are, there are these. There are these available remote areas, thousands of miles wide. Okay. So if you took that and you shoved it, why doesn't, why doesn't it put it over, right?

The bottom one there is a better one, bottom one, that one's better. So not quite. Yeah. But it's still enormous. Yeah.

It's like 35%. Yeah. And there's more political unrest there now, which means stuff shuts down. I mean, that's crazy. That's an enormous piece of what, look how big that is.

Yeah. And India, all of Eastern Europe, the United States, China, fucking crazy. Yeah. And Spain, look at that.

And the cradle of civilization. Yep. The cradle of humanity, and then also Egypt, that's, that's also part of Africa. You know about the eclipse coming up there? What?

Biggest one in history, 2027. Yeah. So in 2027, I want to say, April, there'll be a six minute total blackout in Egypt. Maybe the longest one in 100 and something, or maybe 80 something years over the Red Sea in Egypt.

Oh, that's when you want to go see the pyramids.

“Can you imagine what the aliens are going to return to?”

That's what I'm saying, dude. Can you imagine being at the pyramids and seeing a six minute long, six minute, 22 second? That's what it's going to look like.

And it's in a place that never has fucking clouds.

So you're going to see it. I mean, they do, but not that time of year. So yeah, total solar eclipse for six and a half minutes. So we had one here. Yeah.

Yeah. Two years ago. Yeah. It was how long did that last year? I wasn't that long.

Not that long. But yeah. A couple of minutes. But was really cool about it, though, was that all the animals got oddly silent before it happened.

Yeah. It was really weird. Yeah. So we were outside waiting for it. And as the, you know, as the eclipse starts taking place, everything like

quiet. Yeah. It was really wild. So crazy. And then while it's happening, like whoa, and you imagine, like imagine living, like

thousands of years ago, or anybody understood what the fuck was going on. And thinking like some wild, magical moment had happened, and then we entered into a new timeline or something. Yeah. You know, all crazy theory.

I'd like grab somebody. We got to sacrifice them right away. Something's going on over there. Get them to the peer. Cut their heart out.

Straight away. It's also, it's like so weird that the sun and the moon are the exact right distance that when they cross the moon just completely outlines where the, I mean, just fills in everything. Yeah.

But the light around the outside of the edges.

“It's just like how is it perfectly sized like that?”

Have you seen, oh, sorry, good. No, it's just, it's an incredible coincidence that it's the right distance in the right size. Because obviously, the moon is so much smaller than the sun. Yeah.

But perfectly distance the scale so that when the sun and the moon is there, it's like boom. It's like the right size, not like half of it. Yeah. You know, it's perfect.

Yeah. Perfect. It just sits right in there. Yeah. It's like an Oreo in the cream.

That's amazing. The really screwball theories are that the moon is fake.

I've never heard that one.

The panda, the panda fake. That's nothing on the moon being fake. The moon is fake. Yeah. They think that the moon is artificial.

And then it was like put here by aliens. And it's hollow. You're kidding. Oh, no. That's a good one.

In order to sustain life on earth to give us a stable orbit. I mean, it does do that. It does do that. Yeah. Yeah.

Imagine, like how fragile life is. Like we're really concerned about climate change. Like it's just what the climate change is. Well, guess what? If the fucking moon wasn't there, you'd be doomed.

Oh, this is nothing. Yeah. You need a big moon, too. Controls all of our oceans and the quarter of the size of the earth. Yeah.

It's a weird moon. Yeah. There's another moon on in our entire solar system that's comparable. In terms of like the size and the relationship to the other planet itself. I think it's way bigger than every other moon.

Let's find that out. Is that what's pretty sure? Formulates the conspiracy theories that he was brought in. Oh, yeah. Interesting.

There's also we did something some sort of experiment. We shot something at the moon and it rang like a bell for like a long time. Huh. Which is really weird.

“That's why it's like it echoed like way longer than we thought.”

Of course could just be they didn't know what it would do. Yeah. Yeah. Never done it before. Right.

And you know like. The fifth largest moon in the solar system with a diameter of the with the The continues to its walls dwarfed by Jupiter and Saturn's largest moons. It's uniquely massive compared to its parent planet. Yeah.

That's what it is. Making the earth moon system more like a double planet. Yeah. So in relationship to the planet like it's. So Jupiter and Saturn have huge moons, but Jupiter obviously.

That's a way bigger than us. Yeah. Yeah. Looking at the size of Jupiter and comparison to the size of earth. Yeah.

So it's the scale of the moon to this too. Yeah. Interesting. That is a wild conspiracy theory. Imagine just being the guys like you know what?

Why don't we shoot it the moon? Let's give that a whirl. See what happens. Yeah. They did something.

I think I don't know what they shot it with. I think they sent a rocket to the moon and just to measure the sound. Let's see what would happen. And it was odd. They found it was odd the way it rang.

It rang like a bell.

But you know, it's like they've never done that before.

Like you know also who knows what the fucking center of the moons may not. Yeah. Who knows where you hid it. Yeah. Maybe it's weird.

We already got some caves in there. It's hollow. Apollo experiments in the ringing effect. The phrase moon rang like a bell comes from Apollo 12.

The lunar modules, a scent stage onto the moon.

“Size, uh, seismometers recorded a long lasting vibrations for nearly an hour.”

This description is a metaphor for how dry, cold, lunar rock reverberates without water to damp on the shore. Oh, interesting. Yeah. But retards and dorks.

So it's hollow. It's made by aliens. And there's also people that think that, you know, there's stuff there. There's like, there's a monologue. Oh, the cities on the moon and all that.

Yeah, the other side that we can't see. Yeah. Man, bases. Red, it's a wild place, huh? Sorry.

This is not even red. This is like, you got to go to like, we're message boards. Crazy people go. It's deep crazy. Yeah.

How long's on wiki? What's that? Hollow moon. There you go. Hollow moon.

Crowsly related to spaceship moon.

Ah, that's the one. Our pseudo scientific hypothesis that proposed the Earth's moon is either a holy hollow, or otherwise contains a substantial interior space. No scientific evidence exists to support the idea. Let's go to go to spaceship moon because that seems even more interesting.

Yeah. Space ship moon. Come on, baby. All these pseudo scientific, the moon spaceship includes historical, oh, no, no. Yeah, it's not.

I didn't notice what that means. Spaceship moon theory. Try that theory. Do you do? A pseudo scientific hypothesis proposing that Earth's moon is an artificial hollowed

out satellite constructed by an alien civilization. Oh, boy. See, it's like the Death Star. There you go, bro.

“Well, you need to get into like space's fake.”

That's even better. Space is fake. Is popular. Popularized in 1970 by two Soviet scientists. Mikhail Vassin and Alexander.

Or how about that word? Yeah. Sure, sure. Sure. Back off.

Sure. The suggested the moon was reinforced by an armored titanium hull to survive impacts. Oh, man. People need more to do. No, they don't.

You like that? I love the cookie or the better. Yeah. Like hashtag spaces fake is one of my favorite things to look up. Because there's a whole community of people out there that thinks spaces fake.

But I also think that a lot of these people, what you're getting is there's been some. There's been some people who develop fake theories in order to see if people bite. And then they put them out there, like on Reddit or somewhere on on four chance. Yeah. And then they'll put it out there and see if people run with it.

And then they'll do it to see if just for fun. And you give you a community, right? It's like, oh, yeah. I have this group of flatter theorists that I hang out with on Saturdays. And we talk about how they are.

It's not round. You know what I mean? It's like, I've, I've made my own lunatic community. Bigfoot hunters. Yeah.

There you go. On fuck off. On fuck off. Yeah. On fuck off.

Yeah. On fuck off. On fuck off. Like guys. Look at for cryptids.

Something to do. Are there any other cryptids that are even remotely interesting? To me, not really.

I mean, I always enjoy the fun of it.

Like when we chat about it. But as far as like the reality of it, I don't think so. You know, I know it's a boring answer. But I think that. Well, you would know.

I mean, that's why I'm asking you. Yeah, sure guy actually goes these places. I mean, goes looking for stuff. I love when you hear about something like a borrowing snake. And everybody's like, that's not real.

It doesn't exist. And then turns out somebody finds this weird snake. It's not really encrypted, but it's something that nobody's been looking for. Because why would you, right? Nobody's digging in the earth in the center of the Congo to find a mud snake.

You know, or whatever it happens to be. And I think those are the things that they end up being cryptids in small communities. You know, like you hear from the village about the snake. I'm making a snake up, but about the snake that lives under the mud. And only bites when people dig their crops or whatever it happens to be.

And it creates this generational legend that becomes a cryptid.

“But the truth is, there is a snake that lives under the crops in the mud.”

It's just nobody ever goes looking for it. Because why would you? Well, there is a weird arrogance that we have in 2026 because we have uncovered so much in comparison to people that live two or three hundred years ago. Oh, for sure. So we have this maybe arrogant assumption that we have an accurate audit of all the animals on the planet.

And it's such a human thing to do is to be like, we've quantified it all. We have the answers. You know, it's like we put a finite on something. And then you have all these guys, especially in the scientific community, which is, that's a whole story for itself. But they're now like, okay, I need funding.

So I'm going to speciate a bunch of stuff. So I'm going to go look at the four things that are exactly the same except one lives on one side of the creek and one lives on the other. And now I'm going to make it its own species because that will fund more work for me.

Yeah, there's no gatekeeping on that or someone goes, hey, I mean, there are certain criteria that you have to meet, but they're pretty easy to meet.

Do you know what I mean? You have to say it looks different. It has some kind of genetic anomaly. It has some kind of physical anomaly. There's a population of it.

Okay, now now I've named my own species. And that makes noise and I can publish a paper and now my research is funded.

“And it's just like, it's not, you know, is it a species?”

Did we need this one frog to be split into four different groups because they live on four different patches of the mountain? Not really. You know, and it's sort of lessons the conservation for that frog in general because now all of a sudden it's like, well, there's four different kinds of them. So who cares if one of them gets extinct? You know what I mean?

So it's sort of like, it's a weird thing that's going on in the sciences where there's this race to do speciation and pull apart everything into more and more and more and more. And then it sort of lessons the value of them in my opinion. That's interesting. So there's this reward thing that happens that encourages people to do these things.

Dude, I'm writing a whole book on this right now coming out next year because it's just the scientific system in wildlife and conservation is so broken.

Because it's very, first of all, the first of all, if you're an animal guy, you're probably not a great people person to begin with.

Right? Myself included. You're no bad people person. Thanks. But for the most part, the people that get into the sciences probably are don't have the best.

Yeah, they're awkward. They don't have the best human social skills, right? So then those people become professors and heads of parties and academics and all these things. And again, I'm generalizing. They're great people that I work with too, but just just a picture of the system.

So now you have all these socially awkward somewhat introverted people studying animals. Now there's this tiny little resource pool of money and everybody that's socially awkward that's already somewhat arrogant because they've made it to the top of their field or close to the top of their field is competing for this tiny little pool of money. So now they're putting out anything that's headline worthy and a headline worthy could be a simple as speciating a frog on a mountain or it could be discovering something.

“But basically, you have to just publish something to show that you are accomplishing something to then pull from that tiny little pool of money.”

So now a system like say you mean Jamie here should all be working towards saving this guy right here, this metal, metal chimpanzee. Well, we're not we're all fighting because there's this tiny little pool of money that we all want and we're all saying that each other are wrong because we need to prove that we're right so that we're funded because YouTube because all three of us can't be funded to save that species. Does that make sense? So now we're all fighting each other to save the thing that we all care about because the resource pools.

So what's the solution to that? Well, it needs to become more mainstream and I think there's a lot of bullshit science, you know, to be honest with you. Like there's a lot of this speciation and public shing and all this stuff that's just sort of making noise that isn't really helping.

And I think the solution is, well, one once it becomes more mainstream.

Here's the short answer, conservation is incredibly easy to measure. We try and make it very difficult and complicated. Are there animals now? After your work are there more? Have you fixed the problem? That's all conservation is right? Are there are there more or less than when you started? If when you started there are less and now there are more and this is very black and white and then every system is different. But if you had a thousand frogs and then you worked on the project, now you have two thousand frogs, you're doing conservation right as long as the ecosystem supports as long as the prey is there blah blah blah blah.

That's all conservation is. We try and make it so complicated and so in depth and require all these papers and this publishing and this information that is sort of an information overload that the common person doesn't care about it. I mean, when's the last time you read a paper on frogs? Probably never, right? I mean either because they're boring because I don't want to care about it. But I would care if you just came out and said, look, these frogs need a home. We're going to fight kitchen fungus, which is this big widespread fungus that's killing all amphibians by building frog hotels.

And if we build which are these little brick hotel things that frogs go into incubate to kill fungus. And if we build enough frog hotels, then there's going to be more frogs. That's good conservation. So instead of fighting over that, make that popular and mainstream, don't make it so complicated so that nobody understands it. I'm not saying don't publish papers and things. Those still very much so have their place and they're important. But focus on the messaging to the common person, so the common person now cares, then there becomes more funding and resources, then we don't all have to fight over this tiny little pool of resources to publish things that aren't actually accomplishing things.

This is actually the value of getting into a crocodile cage. That's right. Because you get people actually interested in animals.

“That's why I do YouTube. That's why I do all these things. I hope that it helps people care. I don't need to get funded by it.”

It's great when my YouTube does well and I make money, but I just want people to care about these things. Because if you care about them, then that resource pool widens.

So, and the voice that he had was explaining these things mind-blowing. He was the first guy to document chimpanzees eating monkeys. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I remember that incredible. That was incredible. All this stuff. He's the goat literally. But you kind of, that's another thing about being a wildlife biologist. You kind of have to get your hands dirty. You have to get in there.

And the other part of the system that's so broken is a lot of these world leading experts have never touched seeing anything.

Anything with the living one of these animals. I worked with a person and I don't want to say your name because she's a lovely person who's a world leading expert on a certain type of shark. And we're like, great. You're the world's leading authority. You're perfect to come with us on this trip to study these sharks. We fly to the opposite side of the planet. I don't want to give too many details. It's not fair to her. She's a very nice person. We fly to the opposite side of the planet. She's published 50 papers on this species of shark.

And we get there. And I'm like, all right, day one. Let's gear up. Let's hop in the water and look for this thing. She's like, I don't know how to swim. What do you mean? She's like, I've never been in the ocean before. Like, you're the world's leading authority on this type of shark. And she's like, yeah, I don't, I don't dive. I don't snorkel. I don't know how to swim. I'm like, well, how are you the world's leading authority on the shark? She's like, well, I've never seen one alive. I've dissected him. I published all these papers. I can tell you about the tooth count, but I've actually never seen one alive.

Like, you're the world's leading authority, and you've never seen one of these animals alive to study it. The guy who fishes and eats it in the village next door is a more authority than this person. Do you know what I mean? But that's the scientific process. The world's leading authority, because they publish the most papers on something that sits in a pickle jar.

“Do you think that that is an absolute requirement, though? Like, do you have to have some sort of physical contact with the world that they live in?”

I think you have to have observational knowledge. You don't have to have physical contact. Like, you shouldn't have physical contact with wild chimpanzees. They'll rip your arms. But I mean, the world they live in, I think it should be a requirement. I think if you're going to be considered an authority on that thing, you have to have observational data as well as scientific data. You can't just live in a world where you're like, I've studied them in pickled jars, and I can tell you everything about them.

Well, to me, that was like one of the most fascinating aspects of chimpanzees, you know, that these scientists had been embedded with these particular chimpanzees for more than 20 years. That science. Yeah. That is science. Yeah.

That means you're sitting there. And that's why the best scientists are the guys that hunt and fish and spend their lives surrounded by these animals that will never once be credited as a scientist.

Because all they do is study the behavior of the animal. And I'm with you. Like, that is, that's the real deal. 20 years, watching a troop of chimps, learning their behavior, understanding their social dynamic. I'm not saying you shouldn't also cut one open and measure its canines. You should when you get a dead one. But that doesn't make you an authority on it. Right. In my opinion.

“Well, that was the thing about that particular documentary in those particular scientists.”

So unusual. They had this long history where these chimpanzees had lived and died and raised new chimps around these people. And as long as they fall, this protocol. Right. Stay within, you know, 20 yards, at least 20 yards away from them. Never have food around them. Don't look them in the eyes. You're good. Yep. And you got insane footage because of that.

Yeah, because there's a mutual respect. They've learned to appreciate each other. And you can't do that with every animal. Like it doesn't matter how many years you spend sitting watching a crocodile. It'll still eat you with the first chance. Right. But you've earned a mutual respect with a highly intelligent creature. That to me, as a field biologist, is science.

That's incredible. If not a respect at the very least, you've become a part of their world to the point where they don't think of you as being an anomaly. That's right. Normal. Yep. Where they're, they're not, they're not weird to that. Like if you just show up out of nowhere and you weren't a space suit. Yeah.

The monkeys are going to go, hey. Exactly. For example, this, new thing.

But if there's always people with space suits around, they never bother them. They go, oh, it's just the space suit guy.

Yeah. Normal. It's going to go eat my bananas like normal. It's the same as seeing, you know, an impole and a will to be hang out together at a watering hole. They're used to each other. They know they're not threats to each other.

But you or I walk up and both of their ears perk up and they sprint in different directions. Yeah. You can have that time put in to make things calm. It's amazing.

“But I mean, has there ever been anything other than chimp nation where they did that that effectively?”

I mean, the grizzly man sure tried. Ugh. Didn't work out so well. Didn't work out so well. Didn't end well.

Or did it. Yeah. It probably ended what the way he wanted it to, honestly. There's no way he could have wanted to go out any other way. I think I think that was suicide by bear.

Yeah. You think I also think it was Warner her dog's attempt at comedy. You think? Yeah. There's something about the way he edited it where I'm like, this guy's fucking with us.

And the sheriff goes, well, I thought he was retarded. And then smash cut to something else. I'm like, you're trying to make me laugh. It's pretty funny that I've wanted to try to get him on the podcast. Yeah.

“He probably never answered, honestly, because it'd probably disrespectful to Timothy Treadwell and you got a memory.”

I would love to get him on just because he's amazing.

Yeah. And also his documentary, Happy People, Life in the Tigers, one of my favorite documentaries of all time. Oh, really? I don't know. It's good. It's all about these people that live in Siberia. Huh.

And they have like no mental illness. And all they do is they live a assistance lifestyle. They're just hunting and fishing and trapping and they ride around on snowmobiles. And they make these huts and they live up there with their dogs. And they have this extended periods of time where they're alone.

Yeah. And all they're doing is they take in their snowmobiles to different traps. And gathering wood for fire and fish to eat. And they're all happy. And they're drinking and laughing.

And they're like, it's weird because he documents it. And it's called Happy People. That's what the documentary is called. And it's like with his like the way he describes these people. Leaving in Siberia.

And that's like very fucking amazing. Oh, that's it's really amazing. It's amazing documentary. I think he's incredible. I have said forever. You don't.

Oh, look, mental illness is a real thing. I'm not going to pretend it's not. But if you spend a lot of time outside and in nature and especially by yourself, it the noise goes away. I don't care who you are. I don't care what your history is. Drug history anything when you you're much more present when you're alone in nature.

Yeah. And mental illness from I have no experience in this. This is just opinion. But mental illness comes from when you're wrapped up in your own being, right? When you're thinking about all the problems and this that and the other thing.

“But when you're alone in nature, you have to think about your surroundings and what you're doing.”

And you don't have time to sit and manifest on these things. They create depression and anxiety and all of those types of things. There's also no comparison. You're not comparing yourself to anyone else. Because you're living in a community that are a subsistence lifestyle.

Right. All these people are doing the same thing you're doing. Yep. What are you going to do? You're going to have the biggest fish? Like, nobody cares.

Nobody cares. It's all hunting fishing. Right. Living off the land. That's right.

They all do it. And they're all like sharing and drinking together and having fun. Right. It's really wild when you watch it. I've got boiled down to like the most simplistic community driven ways that people exist like this.

It seems to be the best way for people to live. But like you said earlier, you have to have both sides. Right. Of the coin. It's like the red and blue in Texas.

Because you have to have innovators and overthinkers and workers or he wouldn't be a society. Or then, by the way, they wouldn't exist. Because they use snowmobiles and not one of those mother fuckers is going to invent a snowmobile. Exactly. So you got to have the red and the blue.

You got to have both sides. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

It's awesome.

Well, hey, brother, it's always good to talk to you.

It's really fun. Really fun. What is this you in the crocodile? Oh, my God. Dude, you didn't tell me to put meat all around the outside of it.

Told you I was an idiot. Look at this. We made that cage by the way. And I am no engineer. Oh, my God.

Look at these. Look so flimsy. That thing looks so flimsy. And you're just hanging by a thread. Literally, like this cable that we sourced from a village and hoped it would hold up.

I mean, we tested it as far as put some rocks in it and tested it and empty cage. But this is a terrible idea. It was dumb. It was dumb. Look at these things doing death rolls.

But people are going to watch this, Joe, and they're going to learn about crocodiles. Great thing you filmed it. Right? God, man. That's insane.

That was fun. That cage looks way too flimsy. Don't do that again. I'm not doing it again, I promise. Yeah.

Tell people how they can see that. Where they can find all your stuff. Dude, it's shark week. We got a awesome show coming out this week. Alien sharks untamed America.

Looking at some incredible sharks celebrating America's birthday.

Our craziest weirdest sharks.

“How long is shark week has been going on since the 80s?”

39 years old, same age as me. Yeah. It's been around my whole life. That is so crazy. Yeah.

It's an institution. Wow. Plus we got the YouTube channel. That's where I'm doing most of my stuff now. I hope people check that out.

I know you watched some videos. I heard you comment. I appreciate that. Oh, I appreciate you. I appreciate you doing that stuff.

Thanks for having me. Thanks for having me. Always great to see you. Bye everybody. Yeah.