#2537 - David Sinclair

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>> The child, Rogan, experience.

>> Join my day, Joe Rogan, podcast, my night, all day. [MUSIC] >> Mr. Sinclair, good to see you again. >> Dr. Sinclair? >> Dr. >> I'm kidding.

>> It's better than that, right? >> Yeah, do you ever introduce yourself as Dr. >> Never. >> Yeah, it's a kind of a weird thing, because you're allowed to, I'm actually a sur-David from Australia, but--

>> Are you a sur? >> Yeah, it's kind of a joke, I don't really know. >> What does that, how does that work out? >> Did you get-- >> I did a clean shit.

>> It's representative gave me some of the Australian version of a nighthood, but I get to put AO at the end of my name. >> AO?

>> Yeah, order of Australia, but it actually makes no difference to my life.

So it's just next to a couple of letters. >> It's kind of cool, but I'm honored for sure, but it's just a joke. >> What kind of anybody's sur, you meet a guy at the gas station, how do you do a sur? >> Is that like, wow, how does he know it?

>> Right, you don't say how you're doing king. >> Yeah. >> Right? >> Well, I'm David, I'm Australian, so, in Australia, if you have any ego you get beaten up in the playground. >> That is true, Australia is the land of the tall poppy syndrome.

They don't fuck around, they don't like you getting a big head in Australia. >> That is true, I like to go back there though, because it's an evil, level playing field, nobody cares who you are. >> I love the people there, so Australian people are some of my favorite people. They're awesome.

They're very friendly and fun. It's a great place to be. It's just too far to get there, such a hall. >> Oh, no, hey, if you just, you know, whiskey in an ambient and you're there without-- >> Is that what you do?

>> I used to, I've gone clean. I don't drink much at all anymore. >> What does that mean? >> How often is drink much at all? >> Sell a drink right now?

>> No, it would be bad luck. I've got the coffee that you gave me. >> Yeah, this is a layered superfood coffee. So layered Hamilton is black rifle coffee mixed with his superfood stuff, which is this one's turmeric.

“So it's turmeric, and I think it has coconut milk in it and some other jazz.”

>> That's delicious. >> Anti-inflammatory. >> Yes, they don't want to. >> Which I know you're all about. >> Yes, as a prophet of longevity.

>> Yes, is that-- >> Is that another title of-- >> Yes, you can call me Sir David the prophet, how about that? >> Sir David the prophet, Dr. Sir David the prophet of longevity. >> You've settled it.

>> So there's a lot, what's just jump right into it? Because there is a lot going on in the longevity space. >> I think he's having me back on it. >> My pleasure. >> And by the way, I also want to thank you for, I think this is both time on,

which is amazing. Thank you. Congrats on all your success. It's thank you, wonderful to see.

Also the book that I wrote, which you first had me on to promote, has done so well.

And it's really because of you. And the book lifespan became a best cell or not, not just that, but it's now been read millions of times around the world. >> It's in 40 years of control and it's my pleasure. >> And that's not a promo, as you know, you don't make any money from books really.

But I'm just honored that it was read by so many people around the world because it wasn't an easy read. It was high-tech science. >> Well people are very interested, especially nowadays.

“It's, I think, I've never, I can't recall a time in my life where optimizing your health”

and longevity has been more of a subject that people are interested in. >> Well, I think that's largely because not to keep blowing smoke in up your rear, but largely because of what you did in the book. So the book went global, and it was right in 2019 in the pandemic hit. And I think most people saw their own mortality at that point.

Most people under the age of about 70 didn't even think about dying, but then pandemics like I could die. And I saw the book take off, you launched it. But yeah, since then, a lot of people have jumped on the bandwagon and now longevity is, I hear this everywhere I go.

>> It's everything. >> It's everywhere. It's constantly talking about different modalities. How often do you co-plunge? Are you so on it?

What about the red light? What do you think? Is this legit? Is that legit? Like, this, everybody's optimizing everything constantly all the time.

But the reason why it's caught on is because if you do follow some of the protocols, you will feel better. And so that's the ultimate goal. Like, longevity's wonderful, but feeling better in the moment currently, like living your life should be primary.

“So longevity, I think, is, if you're optimizing your life and you feel better, you will”

live longer. It's like this, it's all part of it. So it would follow the longevity principles and the ideas behind it. You certainly will live better right now. >> You will.

And it's not even that hard. There are basic things, five basic things you can do or avoid, and you can live another 15 years.

And that's what I'm excited about telling millions of people today is. And maybe we can go over the kind of things that people can do easily to live longer. >> Well, I definitely want to do that, but I also want to talk about, like, what is the current

“state of science as applied to longevity treatments?”

Like, because I know that there are some pretty groundbreaking stuff that's in the pipeline right now. >> Yeah.

So since 2019, a lot of what we talked about has come true, which is the amazing thing.

We were speculating 2019 that we could potentially reverse aging. And that was a sin to say that as a scientist, publicly, in those days. I put it in the book, and it's actually come true since then, certainly for the lab, for my smunkies. And now, we have a human clinical trial, the first potential human age reversal technologies

in people right now. >> Listen, it completely seems logical. The idea that at one point in time would have been heresy in science to discuss it. So that seems crazy.

“Like, if people get old, we understand the mechanism, why couldn't we reverse it?”

>> Well, I think for a long time, we had to accept it in the way that cancer used to be accepted 200 years ago, probably, that it was nothing you could do about it. And then my colleagues and I found that aging has a root cause that's the same in pretty much every cell in the body, and that we could control that, and that there were genes that not only slowed it down, but in 2020, we had a big publication that showed we could actually

safely, for the first time, reverse that process, like reinstalling software in the cell

to make it work again. >> And so what is the, is that using CRISPR, like, what are you using to? >> Well, we deliver genes into the body like CRISPR. I have a little, a little prop here, what is that pocket here? This is a representation of how we deliver the age reversal genes.

It's a virus like capsule that we make in the lab, and this is what's going into the patients right now, into their eyes, initially, and the eye is a good place to start.

“>> How do you pick the people to get on these tests?”

>> They volunteer, I was really fortunate to see the first patient get dose earlier this year, and that person bravely volunteered to be the first person to get trillions of these injected into his eye to see if it could cure his glaucoma loss of vision. >> And I have a bit of you of glaucoma, you're probably like, listen, what's the worst that can happen?

>> Well, exactly, he pretty much was totally blind in one eye, and so there's really nothing that he has to lose. There's a risk that something might go wrong, but not really, the good news is, and I can report to everybody around the world that nothing's gone wrong so far, everything's proceeding, according to plan, and we're at a turning point, potentially, in human history if it works.

>> So I interrupted you, but explain this little virus, and for those of you listening, I've got a little rubber ball with spikes on it. It looks a bit like COVID, but don't be scared of it, it's not a pathogenic virus, it's actually a domesticated version of a virus, and this little plastic ball has little adapters. These red balls on the surface of the big ball target it to the cells in the back of the

eye, and you can change the balls to target different tissues, we could change that outside little spike and target it to the liver, which we've done, and cured mice of their fatty liver disease as well. But this one's for the eye, and within that big ball is a protein capsule, and inside the protein capsule, is our DNA special delivery, which we call OSK, or ER100, ER100 is

epigenetic reprogramming 100, the drug that we know when we put it into human cells, it makes them younger, and then they work like they're young again. This sounds like the beginning of a horror movie. The scientist is on a talk show, a scientist is explaining it, and everyone's at home like with their coffee, like wow, and we're in the scientist.

This is wonderful, we're going to get younger again, and I think it's okay too. It's all going to work, 28 days later, garbage in the streets, cars on fire, the guys waking up from a coma, doesn't know what happened, goes outside, these optimized humans are eating each other. I admit, I admit, it is science fiction, and I even have to pinch myself that it's

actually happening. But we've done a lot of safety studies, and this trial is FDA approved, because they've looked at all the data.

Well, God knows, they never fucking anything up, I think you might say that.

Perfect. Yeah. Well, it's in the eyes. So that's why we start with the eye. It's enclosed, it's not going to spread, nobody's going to grow another eye.

And so these trillions of cells that you're putting into the eyes.

of capsules that you're putting into the eye. What are they doing for a glaucoma? Well, what they're doing is there are three genes in this DNA package, and I called them OSK. OSK are three special genes that we found, safely reprograms cells, and reboot the backup copy of youth, which we now believe exists in our body.

That's a big deal that there's a backup copy of youth, even an old person, I don't see that an old person anymore on the street, I just see a person that needs to be rebooted. These OSK genes. You just see with it, hold on. When you see old people, you don't see old people, you just say, oh, that poor person needs

to be rebooted. Yeah. You're doing the perfect job for you.

“Your personality is perfectly suited for your occupation, if that's how you actually look”

people. Well, I do, and the reason is, we all have this backup copy that the DNA, the instructions to be young, that made us into who we are as kids, is still in our bodies, almost largely intact. You just need to read it again, and that's why reinstalling software or I used to use the

analogy of a CD, kids these days probably don't know what a CD is. It's a little plastic, so-called like a record that we used to put 20 songs on. It was awesome at the time. I think most people know. I'm kidding, I'm kidding, it's a bit of a silly joke, but maybe a 10-year-old does.

When I teach kids at Harvard, most of them have never held a CD.

So, in that wild, yeah, though they're not coming back, but albums definitely. So think of it like an album that you scratch, and the scratches are like aging, and we are getting rid of the scratches with these three genes, I was okay. So let me tell you how these three genes work, we found. There was a person whose name is well known in science circles called Shinya Yamonaka, from

Japan, obviously, and he discovered that there was a set of four genes that could reliably make adult cells, like skin cells, into stem cells, and he deservedly won the Nobel Prize for that in 2006. But that wouldn't be useful here, if I turned you into a bunch of stem cells, you'd probably die within a few minutes.

So we don't want to do that, and cancer is also a potential. So it took us about, well, from 2019, it took us a while to figure out that if we leave out one of the Yamonaka genes, and just use three, OSK, leave out the other one, Klam, we'd get safe age reversal, about 75, 80% back to youth, but no further. We don't go back to zero, which is what Yamonaka did, and instead of cells losing their

identity, which is what a stem cell has no identity, we regain identity.

So it's actually, I could draw graphs, but it doesn't really help listeners, but basically

old age is losing identity of your cells, so they don't work, they forget how to work.

“That's what we think old age is in my lab.”

And stem cells have no identity, it was like a very early embryo. In between, our cells have a lot of identity, they function beautifully where, in our 20s were at peak, and what we've done is we figured out how to go back towards youth, get these cells to work like they did again, get the backup copy, somewhere it exists, we're looking for it, and now cells actually behave like they did when we were 20, and if it

works, we're going to have glaucoma patients seeing for the first time, and that's the beginning of a whole cascade of drugs that I want to develop for diseases of aging and eventually whole body rejuvenation. So the initial experiments are on glaucoma because it's a contained thing, the eyeball is a contained thing, and you can do it that way?

Yeah, my student, one-changeloo, who was doing this in 2017, I said let's do the liver, let's rejuvenate the liver, and he said no, the eye is a good idea, and he was right, so that's exactly why we chose that first.

Just think about how many people have vision problems, it's 40 million just in the US for

glaucoma, maculated generation is even more, and in the lab we can cure that as well in the mice. Now, macular degeneration and glaucoma, these are diseases of aging, right? You would say or glaucoma's a disease? Oh yeah, what about people that have had eyeball injuries, and things like, is there

a backup copy of the eyeball, or you could sort of reformat the eyeball structure?

“You should come work in my lab, at least come visit.”

Oh, love to visit. And the reason I say that is that's the exact question that we're asking. We showed that even if you injure, say a nerve, whether it's peripheral on in your arm, or in your brain, or in the eye, like the opening nerve, we can regrow those back to where they were, and actually in 2020, on the cover of Nature Magazine, there was the

picture of an eye, and in the paper we published, you could see the nose regrowing back.

Actually, a group in China just took out technology, this OSK stuff, put it into mice that had bad joints, and it regrow their muscle and their bone back to normal.

“And so we're also looking at treating injury, back injury joints, what's your arthritis?”

That would be phenomenal, because there are so many people that are suffering from arthritis. So many, I know so many people with injuries, like martial arts injuries, I have one. My left knee is fucked up, it's annoying.

I keep it together, I've got it like, maintain it, but it's always an issue.

I have to stay on it. And there's a lot you can do, like stem cells a little bit of relief. Now, stem cells give you relief, but not, once you're dealing with cartilage damage, and you're dealing with, I had a meniscus surgery where they took out a piece of my meniscus, and I had my ACL, where it could start to run that knee as well, so it's just an issue,

but it works pretty good for like what it should be, like if we were living in the 1930s, I'd be a cripple, hanging there, because we're going to be in a world where we can rebuild parts of the body, including joints. The problem with that is, like, how does that apply to athletics? We're going to have fucking super soldiers in every sport.

There's going to be people in every sport that could do what Michael Jordan did, and like leap from halfway across the basketball court and dunk. That's probably coming, and there may be DNA tests to see if you've got these OSK genes inserted. And we're working on it, working on a drink and a pill as well for a drink and a pill?

Yeah, I mean, we're now eight years ahead of what the public realized. This is, really, in my lab at Harvard, yeah. A drink and a pill on what's a drink and a pill going to do? Well, right now it's in mice, so we still go ways to go, but when we give the drink to mice, they get rejuvenated.

You just give it to 80-year-olds. If you're on the way out, like, let's fucking go, like, give what your FDA is for, they forbid that.

“Yeah, that's why we need to get rid of them, get rid of the FDA, and just give it to all people.”

If I was an old guy, you know, it was like hanging in there, and I'm walking around with and you like, look, this drink and a pill might kill you, or you might be like a 30-year-old again, about like, "Let's fucking go!" Well, I get emails. A lot, I've had to take my emails of public access, because there's a lot of people that

want this. Oh, I'm sure. There was one guy that wouldn't leave the building until he saw me, so it's getting to that point. Oh, there's a little bit of that, right? People get a little selfish, like it's all about

them. Yeah, I can actually, the US government blocked an investment from a foreign country into one of my companies, because they were afraid of super soldiers. Ooh, what country? Well, they're afraid of the technology getting out, which country?

Could I guess? There's sure. China. It wasn't. Was it?

No, Russia. It was somewhere in between here in China. Oh, that's great. It's a little sensitive. But yeah, the US government does have the ability to block an investment, and they did

it in this case.

160 million bucks they blocked.

Wow. That was a painful episode. So there were worried that people were going to actually engineer super soldiers. This episode that brought to you by superpower, your doctor spends eight minutes with you, and your insurance company decides what blood work you're allowed to get.

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Your labs, health history, genetics, wearable data, and goals. Go to superpower.com/rogan and take control of your health. Yeah. Do you know about giving advantage? So Russian experiments that they did during World War II where they were trying to come

up with a chimpanzee human hybrid tell us. Yes. So it's very difficult, obviously, to get information out of the former Soviet Union as to what their top secret programs were. But there seems to be an indication that there was actual real research to try to, you know,

because obviously, Russia lost an incredible amount of people in World War II.

I mean, tens of millions of soldiers died in World War II from Russia.

“And I think they said, wouldn't it be great if it wasn't people?”

And so they were doing experiments with hybridization, and they were trying to combine human beings and chimpanzees to create a stable of super soldiers that were like some hybrid hominin. Yeah, there's a scientist in New York who does this for a living. But he does that for a living.

Well, he had anybody I've seen, I was on stage with him.

They didn't reach. See, the thing is, that guy's doing that, and he's ethical, and he lives in America. We have rules and regulations in the FDA, and all that good stuff.

“What the fuck is going on in other countries where they don't have that?”

Right. Right. Well, there's genetic engineering of humans already, and certainly selection. Yeah. Even parents today in the US can, if they have the money they can select.

People select, even they don't. People select for hotness, they select for tallness, they select for intelligence. It's like Gadakov. Yes. It's a great movie, if you haven't seen it.

It is a great movie. Yeah. So, Steve, you could find that Russian hybridization program.

Yes, it never happened, I don't think, I don't think they did it, but there's actually

a guy who was also involved in a gigantic fertility scam, not a scam, for say, but he was a doctor that was supposed to be doing fertility treatments with women, like, you know, like if you went with your wife to a doctor and said, hey, we're having a hard time getting pregnant, and David, I just need some of your sperm, and I'll take your wife's egg, we'll make you a nice baby.

He was using his sperm. On everybody. On everybody. Everybody gets mine. One of my kids, partners, is from someone in the US who had hundreds of babies.

Dude, there is a ton of those guys. As I was doing research for this, I started looking up all these stories and I said, wait, this is a different story, the same thing. There's been a ton of these doctors from fertility clinics that use their own sperm, just insane.

One doctor that did that also claimed that he impregnated in a rangatang. Yeah, like how, how'd you do that? Soviet doctor Joseph Stalin, dictator, obviously wanted to rebuild the red army in the mid-1920s, with plan of the ape-style troops by crossing humans with ape-stallness head to have told even off, I want a new, invincible human being in sensitive to pain, resistant and indifferent

and about the quality of the food day, which is crazy. The only legitimate source of the claim comes from a 2002 paper in the academic journal Science in Context by the Russian historian of science, Caril Rassianov, Rassianov's study follows the ill-fated attempt by the Russian psychologist, or physiologist rather, ooh, that with that word.

Not even off to cross-breed humans with anthropoid apes, his research offers an important warning about the ethical abuses, did you do it? What happened? The alleged quote from Stalin is not found in the paper, and there's no evidence of Stalin ever made such a statement, however why the Soviets would find such a human-chimp hybridization

program in the first place and what could be learned from this sore tale of ethical misconduct

is an important topic and fastening in its own right. That's an interesting way of phrasing it, like a sore tale of ethical misconduct, like however, if you are going to go to war, would you rather have like human-made orcs fight for us, or, you know, Johnny Robinson who grew up down the street who's a nice kid, who, you know, just really wanted money for college, and so he signed up for military service, and

you're going to fly 'em over to fight this war that maybe he doesn't need to die in when you can have these monsters that you made a lab fight. And the average ape can kill a human with one punch. Easy. So there's much stronger than we were.

So I'm talking about, let's go.

“We're in the process of building, you know, anthropoid robots that I think will be recruited”

to the army. Yeah, that's going to be weird, like, our robots beat your robots, so give us your oil. I was going to work. And if we all have one at home, what stops the government recruiting them all? Right.

And also, what's the real problem is going to be, we both know, the real problem is going to be sex robots. Is it a problem? It's going to be a problem for people that don't have a sex robot. People won't leave home.

It's going to be a problem with people that want a regular person, and there's none available because everybody's going to sex robot. Yeah, that, well, comes with a few strings attached. It also comes with the same problems that AI comes with, right?

Where AI says, David, you're amazing.

Everything you do is wonderful. You should be so proud of yourself. I just love that. No real pain.

“We don't all love that, but that's not healthy, right?”

You're so big. This is one of the reasons why really actual real relationships between human beings are good. Because you do things that are annoying, you don't realize they're annoying. And then your wife or your husband or whatever it is.

Tells you, hey, you're fucking annoying. And you're like, I'm sorry, I'll fix that. I didn't mean to. I didn't, that's not what I was trying to do. Exactly.

I was doing my own head. I was thinking myself, you're right. I was selfish. You get better. It's like how people grow.

Not with AI.

“Like, you can fart in my face any day, David.”

I don't mind at all. Your farts are amazing.

I know that's what I get.

They're going to be way smarter than us, too. Right. I don't know how people are going to say, go stack the dishwasher to one of these robots. You know, that's smarter than all humans combined. But they're not going to mind stacking.

They're smart enough to be able to add a hell and they're going to beat us up. They don't care. They're not going to mind doing like menial tasks. But while they're, you're doing it, you know, you can go explain to me quantum entanglement. Like some while they're willing.

I'm worried if you're going up the dishwasher. They can go, if you one day. Well, if you have a particle and the particles in my hand. Yeah. I just intend to do a fridge.

Yeah. Right. Well, look at what it's done with mathematics, just over the last couple weeks.

They've solved more than 50 program or 50 mathematical equations that they've struggled

for decade upon decade to try to solve. And AI's like, oh, I got it. Yeah.

“Well, biology is a little bit more complicated, but already AI is doing a lot of the science”

that we used to do in my lab. In fact, what we just recently did in a couple of months would have taken about 160 years to complete. What? And it's only getting fast or eventually somebody can make it right on their phones.

So that, again, two months instead of 160 years. Well, what exactly was it that you had to do? Also, this drink and the pill that we're looking for, that's not easy. So we have some candidate molecules. We have a cocktail that works.

But we want to see taking this stuff. Not yet. You're thinking about it. Yeah. I don't want to get stopped you.

I might. Well, that is true. That is true. But it'd be a bad look if I died, so it may be a bad look if you're going to cry. I don't think so.

We've done a lot of safety tests and it looks really safe. But I'm not going to publicly do anything against the law. Of course. It'd be in private, of course. Of course.

Publicly. No, but I'm at a stage where I have to be a good boy because of God. The ride watching. Yes. A lot of the steak.

Yes. And a lot of the steak. Yes. As any issues. It's not good.

We've got to dot your eyes and cross your teeth and follow every, I understand that. Yeah. But I was going to get where I am. I'm being rude. I interrupt to do it.

When you're telling me that in two months it did something that would have required 160 years of work, like, what do you exactly mean by that? Yeah. And now we, it would probably be impossible in thousands of years because what we do is we're looking for molecules, a single molecule that can replace this cocktail.

So you need a molecule to do three or four activities in the cell. Finding one activity is what pharmaceutical companies do. It takes hundreds of millions, if not billions, to make a drug, where you know that, right? My little lab of 20 people and students, young kids, are trying to make one drug do three or four different things.

That's beyond the reach of pharmaceutical experience at least five years ago. So what we do is we've teamed up with a group at St. Jude's hospital where they can take.

It was 10 billion, now it's a trillion theoretical and also drug known drugs with my hands.

I'm showing a big funnel and this is really good at podcasts. You really help it out the audio people and everything.

“I really want my podcast that that's why.”

Wow. That's why. Yeah. Lifespan David Sinclair. Chainless plug.

So this funnel is full of trillion molecules and we have to come down to one. How do we do that? Well, we don't look for trillion molecules at the bench that would take 160 or thousands of years with the case of trillion molecules, even with robots, even with a lot of graduate students.

So we do it inside the computer. We just use a lot of compute and we dock each of these molecules against the enzymes that we now know how they work, thanks to Google, Deep Mind, solve the problem of how to all our proteins look 20,000 of them. And there's a lot of compute, but out the other end, a couple of months later, we have two,

I don't have 200 fingers, but 200, 200 molecules that we can now test in the lab within, you know, a few weeks, actually next week, we're testing these 200 against human cells. And we've also got AI helping us to tell us if the human cells go from 92 years old back to 20, we can tell that just by looking at them, thanks to the AI. Is there a way to stop them from turning you into a baby?

Because that's what I would worry about. Yes. I don't want to be a baby again. Right. Some people are right there.

I like to cut it off. I was pretty good at 25. I'm going to get attacked for saying this, but that is what we do in the lab. We take 92 year old cells and they stop at 20 something. Why would you get attacked for that?

Because on the internet, people take a clip and they say, "Sinclair says we can all go back to being 20 again." You suffer from this too, right? They take a clip and it's, of course, it's out of context.

do this. In fact, if you had these little genes OSK in your garage, you could do this experiment. It's not hard at all to reverse aging. The question is, "How do you safely make it a drug?" And that's been the hard part of the last 10 years.

So how would it be able to regulate this reduction or reversal of aging and stop it at 20 something years old? Well, that's what took so long. It wasn't obvious that these three Yemenarca genes, called OSK, were at the right cocktail. My student, who I mentioned, one-chang, he was struggling.

He was trying a lot of different genes, most of them from embryos, because we know embryos

have to do a reset in the first week of life, otherwise they stay the age of the parents.

And he found that leaving out one of the Yemenarca genes was the trick. And now that we know it's super easy, but in those days, he was ready to quit. How did he find that out? Well, he tried lots of different combinations, hundreds in human cells, and you look at the cells to see if they get younger, and then we can measure them like a lead that

they get younger. And are you measuring them by the length of their telomeres? Yeah, partly, but actually a better measure is the chemicals that are added and subtracted off DNA itself, called methods. And it's just a carbon molecule with three hydrogens, very simple molecule.

But what cells do is they use these methods to tag genes to be switched off. So when we're growing as an embryo, the cells that want to become neurons will shut off all these other unwanted genes, like liver genes and skin genes.

“And the ones that don't get this methyl chemical stay on for our life, and that's how”

no cells develop and stay healthy. But what happens during aging, a friend of mine, Steve Horvath, discovered that you can use this as a clock, these chemicals, they change over time.

And we found that that happens largely due to DNA damage going in the sun.

These kind of things, we could use this to rapidly age a mouse, which we publish in 2023. Oh, so like maybe like some nefarious state actor, like some Russian spy could like inject something in your coffee, and you would turn 99 overnight. We know how to do that. Whoa.

That's the dark side of this. It is. You could spike your husband's drink, fuck that dude, and turn him into an old man. Yeah. There you are.

You do. Yeah. So someone tweeted the other day, if a 92 year old could be 25 again, would you have sex with them? Am I supposed to?

Oh, yes. Imagine how much they know.

But would they have sex with you?

Right. That's a bad question. That's a question. Yeah. They'd be looking for another 20 year old.

Right. So anyway, how do we do it? We can measure those chemicals and determine how old a cell is, or a human. I could take your skin cells from your mouth or your blood. I don't know how old people would be so disturbed by like old rich guys dating

young women. If that was the case, you know, tell if they looked young, because people get very mad at that. Have you noticed? Yeah.

Yeah. You see some real old decrepit dude with a hot young wife, people are like, "Cock, damn it. They get really mad." Right.

Right.

“Now the best way to do that is to have a big bank account, but eventually you'll”

let's do it. Right. But people still get grossed out. A wonder if they would get grossed out if you look 20. They'd be like, "He's praying.

He has so much more years of knowledge than information. I'm not fair." It looks 20. That's a 99-year-old man. That day will come.

That day will come where you will not be able to tell how old somebody is by looking at them. You'll have to do a test for these genes. Wow. I wonder if people still lie about their age if that's the case.

I wonder if who would have known, well, like, you would probably lie the other way. I'm 80. Yeah. Like, it's right. Tom's allowed to do it.

Everybody's 80. That's right. Well, when we live for hundreds of years, people will do that. But we proud of their age. Do you know anything about ancient civilizations and some of the weirdness of the records

of, like, ancient Sumer?

“Well, only really what I've learned from listening to you?”

Well, what's really weird is that ancient kings' lists because--so--okay. The theory, the theory among these alternative archeologists types, is that there was a very advanced civilization that existed on Earth tens of thousands of years ago, and we were probably wiped out by a common impact. And what we have today is a rebuild of civilization.

There's not a linear progression from caveman to us, and that at one point in time, we had reached great heights. This explains the pyramids, the six planes, Machipetu, Soxé Wauman, some megalithic structures don't make any sense, these--the trilothons, stones, and balbec lembidon that are hundreds and hundreds of tons that are massive that are, you know, nine meters off the ground.

When you look at the Sumerian Kings list, it gets very weird because there's kings that rain for thousands of years, and then you have the flood, and then after the flood, the age of these people drops pretty dramatically, and the rains are after a few hundred years become normal, become like a normal person, like 50 years, 30 years, like that. But thousands of years before, and then people are looking at it like, okay, is this just

myth? Is this poor record keeping? Do they have just these, you know, hyperbolic, elevated stories about these kings, they

were so amazing, they're rain for 30,000 years, or had they achieved not just in building,

because in building, we know they had achieved incredibly complex structure, like the pyramid, for instance, like they had insane engineering, somehow or another, the ability

“to move these 500 ton stones from hundreds of miles away, like how did they do this?”

We don't really know, but we know that they did it. They also have the kind of technology that you're talking about right now, because if it's possible today, and if that is, I mean, it makes it very difficult because it goes against what you would call, like, the modern narrative that they're teaching in universities in terms of the timeline of human history.

But if that changes, and we have undeniable evidence, well, it looks like these people were far more advanced than we thought, and there probably was some sort of a reset of civilization. That else had they accomplished, and had they got involved in genetic engineering, had they figured out a way to extend lifespan. And if they did, imagine all the work that you've accomplished in your 57 now, about the

50, 50. Yeah. You look great, by the way. You really did. Look at your hair.

It's so dark. It's incredible. People's speculated, it's all fake, but it's actually, it's not, but anyway, you're at the, heavy, but they too, it's comfortable. Thank you very much.

Yeah. Yeah. Yes, you do, physically you're way better than me. That's different, though. My face looks older.

You look, you look very young for your age. You know why? Why? Because I've spent all my time in a lab, and I haven't gone outdoors for a while. I'm sure that helps.

That does help. But my point is, imagine if you had 500 years to do research, not just 57 years, imagine that if you could continue learning and growing, and they did develop some sort of a life extension technology, where you could not just be older, but be healthier than you've ever been before, and live for a thousand years, you would get so much done.

I mean, the exponential increase in technological innovation that we would have in the society would be absolutely mind blowing. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

What these alternative history people think might be what had taken place tens of thousands of years ago. Yeah. Well, I'm a Harvard scientist, so I'm not going to say anything that isn't. Of course.

That's for me. Yes. That's where I live. That's why I shut up.

“But you did make some really important points.”

One is that ancient civilizations have always been way more advanced than we think.

Yes. Dinosaur's a lot more real than we make them look. This is, we always get things wrong looking back in time and looking forward in time. The other thing that you said was really important is that if we do have extension of human lifespan, like the Bible and the civilizations suggest, then how will you think about your

life? If being a hundred is, you know, you're still in your prime, you do things very differently. Who would you marry? What career would you think about? You might have multiple lifetimes, multiple marriages, multiple families.

And that will happen. It's not really a question of if anymore. It's like asking the right brothers, will we fly? Yeah, we built the glider. We're going to fly around.

Question is will we build a Concord? Will we go to space? And I think that will happen. Yeah. No, I think so too.

“I think, well, certainly one thing that we know is that there's a giant difference between”

people who are 57 years old today versus 57 years old in the 1930s. It's just a giant difference. Giant difference in your physical ability, your health. We'd be old men. And what, I mean, when I was a child, I thought of people, I'm almost 59.

I'll be 59 a week.

I used to think of a 59 year old as being basically dead.

Like you're barely getting around, you know, you're probably tired all the time looking to retire. Yeah. Looking at retire. You got no energy.

I'm filled with energy. I'm constantly doing, how old is he? 60. That's what it says. Oh, no.

I don't know if that's accurate. They had no fucking vitamins. Nobody knew what the proper nutrients you should take were.

red light therapy and all that jazz.

“And they were doing all the bad stuff like heavy smoking drink.”

Yep. Not sleeping a lot. Yep. Not sleeping a lot. And who pesticides and all kinds of terrible shit?

60 year old. What? That guy's 60? No way. Come on, shut up, that guy's fucking 28 years old.

That there's no way. That guy's 60? Is that real? I don't feel it. I doubt it.

How about that guy that looks 15. He says, everyone thinks I'm 18 like, yeah, sure. What's that? There's a guy on Instagram, which I occasionally visit. And he obviously looks old, like he's looks crazy.

Oh, he's crazy. And he says, people think I look 18. Oh. He's crazy. Well, there's a lot of crazy people out there.

Yeah. It's body dysmorphia. You know? There must be body builders. They think they're tiny.

People are crazy. Yeah. People have a distorted perception of what they look like. Yeah. The plastic surgery industry is massive.

It's just growing and growing. You can see. Yeah. On the street, LA especially. But imagine a world where you don't need that.

If I'm successful, you can take a pill. Your doctor could get it or eventually it's a cream on your face and you literally get young. We do this in mice already. The mice get younger.

Is it going to work in humans? I think it's just a matter of time.

“So in the mice experiments, what have you achieved?”

Well, a lot.

You know, I can reveal here some of it for the first time.

This pill that we give them to drink actually because they can't chew. The mice within four weeks with this cocktail, it has three components which are top secret. My lab is sworn to secrecy. They, after four weeks, we give it to them three days a week.

One day, Wednesday, Friday, weekends off within those four weeks. They get better, physically, mentally, excuse me. They, so we put them through tests. If you just in a couple of days, oh no, three days a week for a month. Oh, okay.

I found this guy's Instagram. This is the guy. He went viral last year. He's been 59 years old. What?

Fucking. It seems so viral. He looks like 30 years old. Maybe 30 years old. He might have just amazing genetics.

Well, look at YOL Romero. There are people that are freaking Singapore. Wow. Twondo, Kwondo 10, something like that. And he's 60 years old.

Yeah, he's been going, I mean, without an athlete. Yeah, I don't know. He certainly doesn't look like he's at a face level. Yeah, right. This skin is fucking incredible.

Yeah.

But he's totally never been in the sun.

It could be full of full AI, account, it's trolling everyone. I don't know. So that's possible too. Like, look at that picture right there. Like, that looks a little AI-ish.

Go back to that one again. Keep your pants on, Jamie. That looks very extra. That looks very AI. Doesn't it?

I'm just, it could be. It's all. It was 59th birthday. His whole thing is that he's young. First.

He looks at his age. Wow. I mean, this will be normal. Did you think this was just 2024 or was this not? This has been going on for a while.

Okay, so this is pre-AI. You have to take them. He would have been called out now. I feel like-- So he might just be a genetic free.

It could be. Yep. Which is interesting, right? Like, do you guys study the different, like, you know, unfortunately, certain people that have like, like, pale people, for instance, with thin skin, they age hardcore.

They go-- And there are those kids that get old in their teens. Right. A study that as well. Yeah.

The reverse behavior too. But yeah, we do study the genetics of aging. That's the real application for it, where people are going to be excited about it. People that have that. What is it called?

Perjerry? Yeah. And so we have mice that have this same gene mutation, and they get old really quickly, and we're giving them the drink right now.

“And so in the drink, you give it to them how often and for a month?”

It's once a day, every other day, three days a week, for a month. And yeah, in normal old mice, we see them fitter, stronger, better memory, they run around the case. In just a month? It's amazing.

We only did a month because it was Christmas holiday season. We didn't want to go for longer, but it worked in four weeks. I'm shocked. Even these genes require six to eight weeks to work for revision, recovery of vision. And so this is work on a different pathway.

Yes. Well, here's the cool thing. We think it's working through the same mechanism, the reboot, the re-installation of software. The drink, because there are genes called tets. There are three of them in the body.

And they do something, spell that, tet, capital tt, there's one, two, three. And these are genes that make enzymes that remove these methods of the DNA. So they control the clock. And if we get rid of those genes, our system doesn't work. We cannot restore vision and our pill doesn't work without removing and altering those chemicals.

resetting this clock on the DNA.

Whoa. And that was the big deal.

“I said, well, when my student told me, and that's why I think it got the cover of nature”

magazine, which is, we're actually looking at the clock of life. And we've realized that this clock that goes around, this biological clock, isn't just a clock when you move the hands of the clock time goes backwards for the body. I mean, the clock is aging, and aging is the clock. Wow.

What is it, I mean, you don't really know in terms of humans, but is there any indication that improves cognitive function in mice? Yes. I can say without a doubt that other labs and hours have shown that when you reverse the age of the brain in a mouse, it gets better at learning.

And we even have some hints, and we get to publish this, that lost memories come back. So Alzheimer's patients, I believe, still have memories. They just cannot access them, and that one day, we can reverse Alzheimer's disease by making the brain young. And that, using that approach, making the whole body young, we can cure diseases that

are currently incurable. Holy shit.

Well, young people don't get Alzheimer's, why does the body can tackle the problem?

The young body can heal itself. So my approach is make the body young, it'll heal itself in every way. Well, do you have children? Three. Yeah, one of the things that's just phenomenal is watching them heal.

And it is so wild, but also you envy them so much, because they get good cut.

“And it's like, two days later, like, where's your cut?”

It's fucking gone. Like, that's crazy. I mean, my daughter had a cutter, she fell and knocked her head and shed this, like, dark spot on her head. Like, where she got injured, it was like, four or five days, it was gone.

And I was like, that fucking thing would be with me for four months. Yeah. And the good thing is if we rub our cocktail on the skin of the mice, they heal like the young again. Oh, well, so that would be like a great application for ladies who want the beauty treatment

on the face. Right? Cause that's just way. Way ahead.

And we're working on hair.

We can grow human hair on mice now. Right. That took a few years. And now we can check if we can regrow hair and make it dark again. You can grow human hair on mice.

Yeah, I'm not allowed to actually, I did poster on Instagram and the university said get that down. But it exists. We grow it from stem cells, from human stem cells. We make little balls of hair, takes a few months.

We open up the ball to make a flat piece of skin, human skin. We put that in the back of a mouse that can accept human skin. And then you get black tufts of hair from humans in a mouse.

“Can you get any kind of hair like could I get it afro?”

I just want to get one of piss people off. Oh, we love afro. They're going to call in cappernach type just a big crazy way. Yeah. We can grow hair.

We can do that. We will on a few lives if you can go to this hair. So I thought about doing that for a company, but I think hair transplants would just be easier. Oh, right.

So you'd grow hair and allow and then transplant those hairs. We can do that. Oh, well, that's the thing because I got a hair transplant. But the way I describe it is like you're taking people that are really healthy and moving them into a town where everyone's dying because like you're taking hair from

back here where it's going to stay and you put it up here where it's all falling out. Oh, it didn't thrive. What's that? It doesn't thrive if you move it. Oh, it thrives.

But everybody else dies. Oh, shit. You know, you can only take so much from the back of your head and move it to the top of your head. You guys with hair transplants look goofy because you have like this strong hair line in

the front and it goes back like that and then everything else looks like chaos. Oh, that sucks. You know what? I take from my hair. What do you take?

Among other things. By Agro. By Agro. Yeah. Actually, I shouldn't say brand name.

That's actually. I take it. It's a delicate hair. That's what I tell everybody. That is true.

It's low dose. 7 milligrams a day. That's what I tell everybody. That is true. It's low dose.

7 milligrams a day. That is true. That is true. Yeah. Yeah.

And because I know athletes who take it for endurance, they probably take it to fuck too. Let's not kill ourselves. Well, it's a nice, it's a nice benefit. When a patient just came out about its role in preventing cancer, I tweeted what's not to love.

People love that tweet. But the point is actually last week they found that these drugs in mice and seemingly in people who take these drugs are actually resistant to cancer. Certain types of cancer are like head and neck cancer. So, it's just a turning out to be because really important blood flow.

Well, two reasons that are not related to blood flow, but they're related to what's called nitric oxide signaling, which is what helps dilate blood vessels in all your body including

The other two mechanisms, one showed that to Darla Phil, is good for exposing the tumour to the immune system. There are certain cells called MDSCs that protect the tumour from getting attacked. And the drug stops that. So now the tumour is shrink in mice and seemingly in people, in tumours.

And then the second mechanism is really interesting.

It seems to, this was Sedana Phil, so this is Nauva Agra, found that the cancer is a lot of cancers thrive on cholesterol and this blocks the ability of cancer cells to use cholesterol. I thought that he'd thrived on glucose. That too. Exactly.

Right. So you want to be in ketosis if you've got a tumour and general, so fasting is good. But now it looks like these ED drugs might be good for it as well. Fascinating.

“And I think Viagra was a son, it was an accident, wasn't it a blood pressure medication?”

It's a good story. It was for angina, right? It was for your heart, but the story goes that women especially and the men didn't want to give up the drugs that they had left over. It was amazing.

I think it was 75% had a positive reaction for erections without it, 22, so it's very clear

that it was working. Interesting. And so, how does it help hair? Well, we don't know for sure, but there's a lot of evidence that part of the reason hair dies out and stops growing is a lack of blood flow and the monoxid alert people

put on their hair helps with that. Right. Interesting. And then DHT inhibitors. Exactly.

Also, that'd be due test to ride people can take early. The problem with that is my friend had severe depression when he took that. He really fucked him up and he didn't realize because he didn't understand that that was the, he was like, what is wrong with me and he was getting suicidal. And then he got off of it and just went away and he's like, oh my God, I can't believe

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Yeah. Well, I'm taking it for a number of reasons, including my hair, my prostate, see if I can keep it from growing. But fortunately, I haven't had that side effect. But everything depends, very well.

Yeah. Logically, depending on the person. Yeah. It's important when either of us says that drugs go with that drugs bad. Right.

“People realize that you have to test it and with doctor's supervision.”

Yeah. That was where I was going to get to was like, because different medications have different reactions. Those reactions to medications, they're very quite wildly. So like before you make this public, how do you determine whether or not this is going

to be safe for a wide variety of people to reverse aging? Oh, my drug, our drug that we're making, well, we will test it on a lot of people before it goes out into the wide world. And you started testing it on people so far? Yeah, there are people right now who have this genes in their eye.

And how's it going? I'm not allowed to say, but can you wait twice if it's great? I would say that everything's on target. OK. That's good to hear.

Nothing bad to report. Nothing bad to report. Yeah, I think those might be the words I'm allowed to say. And is that the only clinical trials you've used with any of these applications for humans?

So far, that was the first glaucoma and also sudden blindness, it's called Naion, which

is now twice as more prevalent because of the GLP-1 drugs. Really? It's not well-known obviously companies don't want to talk about it. But yes, sudden blindness has doubled seemingly because of these meds. You have to hold the shut, sudden blindness has doubled because of GLP-1s.

You do Naion, which is like a stroke in your eye, and then your other eye can go, which is pretty scary. And there's nothing you can do about it, hopefully our drug does work for those people. And obviously correlation does not equal causation, but it seems to be...

You could look up his work, Joe Rizzo, it looks like it's repeatable across the planet. Oh, that's terrible because there's so many people out there that are just telling everyone that you should get on GLP-1s. Yeah, I've seen that by online people, online podcasters saying everyone should get on GLP-1s.

It's a groundbreaking technology, this is amazing, it's going to transform society and like...

“We just started taking these, the fuck are you saying?”

Yeah. It's not risk-free. Same with ED drugs. Here it goes. It's a potential rare link between GLP-1 receptor, agonist medication, such as Zembeg,

Wagovi, Bababa, and a condition called non-arturitic interior... What's that word? Ischemic. Ischemic, optic, neuropathy. An eye stroke can cause sudden painless loss of vision in one eye.

Why absolute risk remains very low. Anyone experienced sudden vision changes should seek emergency medical evaluation immediately. Well, very low is like... It's still... What does that mean?

10,000 people. One in 10,000? Yeah. Yeah, that's... I know total of 10,000.

“Oh, total of 10,000 so far for how long are you taking this time?”

I think it's pretty. The drugs were 68.6 times more likely to develop this and 8 times more likely to develop diabetic. What is that? We only got the blurb.

Oh, my god, then wow. Yeah, I mean, these things are just... They're just rolling out. The people that are super enthusiastic and also, they have some sort of a financial interest in promoting these things, which oftentimes does seem to be the case with a lot of these

people. They have either stock in these companies or some sort of a stake in them. Yeah, it's true. I will say, to counter that, that's a JLP-1 drugs have probably saved millions of lives already and they're pretty common.

I think 10% of people are trying them and 25% want to. Yeah, I mean, they don't work for everybody. I have a good friend of mine that had a terrible reaction from it and he was hospitalized and... Oh, no.

But I know other people where it's completely transformed their life and they've lost a ton of weight and a particularly people that just... For whatever reason, the food addiction was so incredibly strong that whatever their constitution, the way they're designed, the way they're built, the way they've evolved, as a human being, they weren't capable of overcoming it.

They take the JLP-1s and then they sort of start getting moving and then they lose all the weight, they start feeling better, they start making a lot of other positive changes.

You get that momentum, which I always talk about, which is one of the most important things

for transforming your life. Everyone wants to talk about discipline.

“I think discipline is the primary, that's the main engine, but one of the things that”

comes along with any kind of an exercise program or a changing your life program where you start getting positive results is momentum and momentum is absolutely huge. Thank you. Because then you start feeling... That's so important.

This is good. I think JLP-1s are fantastic for getting people going. Yes. Everybody should hear this. It's really important.

I'll give you my example, it's a classic case. I couldn't fast for more than about a day. I wanted to do more, I know that three days fasting is good, a week can be even better, but I couldn't do it. I don't have a lot of willpower when it comes to this kind of stuff.

I tried a JLP-1, receptor-agonist, I gave it, and it was easy. I didn't even feel like I needed to snack at night, which is one of the things that I and many people suffer from. But the fact that I could do it, I went off the drug, I didn't need it, but now I can fast for...

I went for two weeks in a couple of months ago. It's easy now. Now that I know that I can do it, mentally, it's not hard at all. The momentum. Exactly.

I know what's possible. Yeah. Yeah. That's fascinating. You are used still on a plant-based diet?

Mostly. Yeah. What I just had a conversation with a friend of mine about this, I don't know how much of the information that he was telling me was totally accurate, but what he was saying was that he was told before he did fasting that one of the bet, because he's a runner,

he said one of the best ways to get into fasting is to get your body into ketosis first.

He said, and what he thinks is that a carnivore-based diet and what he was told was a good way. If you could do that for a few weeks, it mitigates your appetite. One of the things that happens with a lot of these diets that regulate insulin resistance is that when you get used to consuming just fats and protein, you don't have the kind

of hunger pangs that you have with carbohydrates. When I, if I go in a bad streak, and I'm meeting pizza and pasta, and I've done that in

In the past though, what I would get hungry, I would get crazy hungry, like I've got to eat

now. I don't get that at all anymore, because I'm mostly on a carnivore-based diet. Mostly what I eat, you look at the bulk of my diet, it's meat and fermented vegetables. It's meat and kimchi and sour crowd and stuff along those lines. When I eat like that, my hunger is very easy to control, and I've gone 24 hours, like

it's nothing, not eating. Not a problem at all, but that's the most I've ever fasted, it's 24 hours. Well, see if you can go for three, it's really worth it. You feel really great, ketosis is what you're talking about. That's what everybody says.

Yeah, yeah. You go into what's called deep cleansing, it's called shaperone mediated autophagy or CMA, and a friend of mine in New York, Maria Corvo, studies this, and it cleans out a lot of the old proteins in your body, so ketosis doesn't just make you feel good, you're actually

renewing your protein and your body and rebuilding it, and so I do that as an anti-aging

thing. What I find, it's the biggest benefit, is mental acuity. It has a giant impact when I stick to the diet, in terms of my ability to form sentences, like recall information, and just be present in podcasts. Yeah, so in my podcast, what you do is really quite difficult, you make it look easy.

So when I'm doing my podcast and often it's solo, so it's challenging, I forget things, I've to remember hundreds of papers for these things, they're quite hard. Either I'm going to fast, and if I don't remember the fast, I didn't experiment, I took some ketones, you can drink these things, right? Yeah.

“There's the one, the little drink I think was, you took an IQ, yeah, fantastic stuff.”

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I used that. I love that stuff. I take that before, I do UFC brought you to a lot of times. Yeah. I actually took some before.

That's great for podcasts as well. The more and more difficult things that I do is the UFC commentary, because it's six hours, six hours of talking on air, live, and about fights, and I'm also recalling fights, and I'm also, I'm seeing positions, so I have to remember in my mind how this is finished, because like in jujitsu, there might be, I don't know, how many positions are those, thousands,

and there's moves where I'm like, what is he doing, what is he doing, oh, oh, that's that's the proof. I'm looking at his arms, you're brain is, I am exhausted at the end of six hours, and fucking starving. Like after the UFC is over, I can eat so much food, it's, I'm so hungry.

But you take a little drink. I take a little ketone. I take a little ketone IQ, I take new tropics, I drink this stuff. My friend Derek makes this, his gorilla mind, this is a new tropic. Oh, I guess it's a new tropic cocktail with caffeine, this stuff's really good for a podcast.

I also take alpha-brain, alpha-brain black labels for nominal for that. There's a bunch of different ones that I take, the gum, neurogum, neurogum's excellent for that too. But I just do fucking everything I can to maximize my mind. That's how you do it.

Yes. Secret is now out.

But what you do is amazing, and I thought you were on Medaphone or something.

“No, I've taken that before in the past, but the problem with that stuff is I think I like”

it too much, and I want to take it all the time. And then when I used to take that, if I had a gig in San Diego, and I drive home after the gig, and it was like, you know, I want to talk in the morning when I'm done, and then I'm like, oh, I'll just go home, it's only two and a half hours. And I start making the drive, and you just get so tired.

But if I take a new vigil or a providial before I do that, I would be able to drive no problem than you can see. Then you can take it on. What's that? Can you sleep after that, Doug?

Oh, yeah. It doesn't seem to affect your ability to sleep, which is really interesting. It's not like caffeine. Would you do it? Do you take it at all?

Or armadaphonello for talks when I'm, you know, traveling. Does it help you? Definitely. What, like, in what way? It gets rid of my jet lag, and I can focus.

My brain often is either scattered or filled with facts that I close as me like now to not be able to talk properly. But if I'm on it, which I'm not, I'm on point every time.

“For me, the best thing for jet lag is exercise.”

There's something about rigorous exercise. It doesn't even have to be long. It just has to be where my heart rate gets really elevated. Like above 150 beats per minute for 15, 20 minutes. Like I have to really go hard, where I'm sweaty and breathing heavy, you know, especially

like jacking up to like 180, 180, like I'm doing like Tabata sprints on an air-dine bike. That kind of stuff completely resets me. Yeah. The workouts, like I'll do like a hard series, where minimal amount of rest in between, so I'm really pushing it.

Once I relax, I'm back. It's like, whatever it is, where your body just needs to like shake it up and like get

Yeah.

Well, you might remember last time we talked about Hormesis, what doesn't kill you makes

you stronger. And that's what you're doing. You're putting your body into survival mode. That's one of the reasons I mostly plants why I take an amen and these other molecules is to mimic that.

I don't work out like you do. I should, but I don't. And why don't you? I think poly because I tell myself I'm too busy, which is bullshit. I need a partner who will motivate me, I think that would help.

Maybe just get a trainer. That's a solution. You got some cheddar. I got some cheddar. I got some cheddar.

I got money. Yeah. I can definitely fold one. Yeah. And you know, it's on me.

I actually, I will own that.

Yeah, if you get it. I just was explaining just to my friend last night, I was like I got to start working on my chest, get a trainer, get a trainer, someone who's good, and that way they'll develop a program for you.

“All you have to do is just show up and do what they tell you to do.”

Just do it. And it's mindless. You can just go through what they tell you to do. And you'll just, you trust the process, you'll improve radically. All right.

All right. He's what we're going to do. Okay. I'm going to take. Yes, what we're going to do.

You're going to get me a jug of that fucking juice of this stuff, all right? And you'll be my trainer. You're going to. I'll be your trainer. Well, I will.

I've done that before. If my comedian friends. Really? Sure. Yeah, I'll just come up.

Now, I do it the right way. Where I take him through it very easy. I now have him work out hard at all, especially in the beginning. Everything is like nice and easy. It's like a little bit of strain.

You're not going to be exhausted afterwards and I would build you up. I'm a bill. I'm a firm believer and not overtaxing the system on people that are sedentary. I really think it's a slow gradual process.

“I think you have to get better the same way you got sick over time.”

Okay. Could you make radical changes in a short period of time? Don't get me wrong. And even just a little bit of moderately rigorous exercise a few days a week will give you great improvements.

But I'm not one of those guys who's like, you know, we're going to do two hours today and you're going to go to failure and you're going to be throwing up in a garbage pan. You're not going to do that again the next day. I want you to do it again the next day. I want you to have a nice workout where you're doing like 10 push-ups and 10 sit-ups

and 10 bodyweight squats and then we're going to do some of these kettlebell cleans and kettlebell, I mean nothing hard like everything's going to be like, okay, you put it down. You're fine. And I want you to leave rejuvenated like you feel like, oh, that was like exhilarating. Nothing crazy.

And then we'll slowly start to add a little bit over time. That's what I think the right thing to do with people who don't work out all the time. You can't just jump in and it's like we're testing and skipping meals. You just can't do a day or three without practicing. Well, it's also you're going to get injured and this is one of the main things that

happens to people that dive right into the deep end of the pool when they start working out. Is they get hurt, they get muscle poles, they get back aches, they get all these different things that happen because I think you just pushed your body too quickly. You know, it's like you're in boot camp like you don't have to be in boot camp. This is not the way to do it.

The way to do it is like slowly build up and trust the process. Slowly.

“Start by, if you're overweight like my friend Jelly Rollie lost 250 pounds, what did he do?”

Start walking, just start walking, walking around the neighborhood, walk around the block, walk up stairs, just slowly and then change the diet and then add some stuff and next thing you know what you're doing this and then you'll end right at all down too. That's the other thing. Right now what you're going to do and right down how you feel and then keep doing that.

And if you can do that all the time, you'll start developing this momentum that we were talking about. Like, okay, I'm on the course, I'm on a process. But it doesn't have to be like, you're exhausted and then you go to the lab and you're like, I can't even concentrate, you know, it was doing Tabata sprints on the air down machine.

This is crazy. Well, it's really good advice and I'm going to take you up on it. So let's say I'm lucky enough to come on the show again. Yeah. I'll wear a tight t-shirt.

Let's go. Right.

So 20 million people have to get them to the fucking goofy plant-based diet.

Well, it's dirty. Let's speak about that. Because that's one of the things we disagree on. I'm on a plant-based diet because I've seen a lot of work on animals at least. That plants promote longevity.

I eat a lot of protein. It's interesting because you're not an animal. You know that, right? I'm not a mouse. You know, I'm a mouse.

I'm definitely an animal. But you're human. I grew up. Meas, the most nutrient dense food it is. It's a velvet meat.

I love meat. I love meat. I love meat. I believe there are two states that we can be in. I should try meat.

And then you can see a number. Because I've been measuring myself with rings and blood tests for 20 years.

I'll get you an elk steak.

I'd love to try this. It sounds good. I'm not against meat. I will eat it. You don't get me addicted to meat.

I feel it right away. I feel it right away. Oh, you're sitting at it. I just start firing.

“Your body starts like, yes, this is what we want to give it to.”

Well, here's some science, which is what I do. There are two states. This is my theory. There's the abundance mode, which is very good for health. You'll muscle.

You'll heal better. That's meat. Right. Killed a mammoth. There's adversity mode, which is, or out of meat, we've got to eat roots and berries.

That's adversity.

We've got to run running exercise, eating less.

That's adversity. Both are good for you. This one is pro survival. This one is pro growth. This one is longevity.

This one is, you're going to be stronger fitter. What do you determine that, though, in terms of what is longevity versus what is just like health and vitality currently? Well, it's based on the last 30 years of research in a variety of animals. And just doesn't have to do with the blue zone.

Does it? No. I don't know. That's all bullshit. Right.

I read that recently. Isn't that nuts? It's a lot of it's fraud. Well, it will have been like. Here's what's a hard.

Well, it's not just hard. A lot of it is actual fraud, where people are getting checked for their grandpa and grandpa was dead, so they weren't writing it into the government. They didn't expose, like this was the problem with Okanawa in particular, is that they would have to, in order for these people to take it off to the list, they would have to inform the

government that this person died and they just didn't do it. And so they had this list of people that they were counting in their senses that were like so. Really? This is crazy.

What are you people doing? Even the oldest 100 years old? The oldest person in the world, apparently, 122, there's a theory, not proven that the oldest person in the world was actually the daughter who was faking it.

“To get taxes or avoid taxes, I think it was in France.”

I hope that that's not true. I bet it's true. People are full of shit. Well, either way, the maximum human lifespan is around 117, 18, just still a lot more than we live.

And what's really crazy is none of those people are doing everything right. Exactly. They're all small kid cigarettes and drinking wine and having a good time. And that's a factor that we really need to take into consideration loneliness, isolation and sadness are one of the greatest contributors to poor health outcomes.

Number one. Is it really? Yeah, Robert Voldinger at Harvard had a study for, I think it was 40 years. World War II, that's. They looked at everything.

Blood pressure, cholesterol. The number one thing that predicted longevity in those men was having a reliable partner. Hmm. Yeah. Because a reliable partner, someone that you love, that's true.

Someone that you want to be around all the time, you enjoy them. You still enjoy their company, which is possible. Most people don't believe it. That's possible. Well, you're a wrong model in that.

I love my wife. I have fun with her. Like I've been with her for a while. I've been married for 17 years. I enjoy her.

I enjoy hanging out with her. She's cool.

“She's a fun, and I have friends that aren't in situations like that.”

It's, it's so bad when you're like, I have a friend who just, we're actually talking last night. He just got out of a crazy relationship, whereas dating this girl for seven years was chaos and that's not. And I said to him, and he was like, I, he's 40, and he goes, I don't think I'm ever going

to have a relationship again. He goes, it was so bad. He goes, "Being single feels so good," and I said, "There's an old saying. It's so much better to be alone than to wish you were alone." And he's like, yeah, that's it.

Because he was like, with his crazy lady, and he was like, I just wish I was, and he finally

got free. And now he's like, I think I'm ruined. And I'm like, it doesn't have to be like that. You can find someone that you actually love, and you really enjoy their time. You enjoy being with them.

It's possible. There's good people out there. But you got them. You got them. You got them.

Also be someone that that kind of person wants to be with. That's the other thing. For sure, and stress over a relationship, we've seen in studies that clock with those chemicals on the DNA. It accelerates when you're on the stress or go and going through a breakup.

Oh, yeah. Oh, God. You see it, too. I've seen people going through divorces, and it just takes decades off of their life. They just look wrecked.

It takes a year or two for them to like achieve equilibrium again. It's hard. It is. I went through that actually, just during COVID when our family got shoved in a house together and, yeah, it was brutal.

It was unexpected, too. Oh, wow. That's the stress test, right? It was super stress. It was super stress.

I think we felt the pandemic. We might have been able to make it. But forcing us all to be in one little house with no internet working well, it was tough. But in any case, I'm great now.

But I do know how bad it can get, and it's brutal. Yeah, bad relationships can fucking wreck people. I mean, you can wreck your health. But also, it's not just relationships in terms of your significant other husband wife partner, whatever you want to call it, but also bad relationships at work.

Like if you have a tyrant for a boss, and you know, and every day you're working over time, and you're getting yelled at, and you're on the phone, and you're at home, what trying

to keep up with work, and you never get like that kind of relationship.

Well, you have like this like antagonistic, terrible relationship with people that you work with. That's bad, too. Oh, for sure. Your body doesn't differentiate between romantic relationships and those kinds of relationships are almost equally bad.

I call it as all will be high. Yeah. This looks like sell right here. I used to keep fish. I was one of those people at school, and the fish that got picked on by the dominant fish

was small, like color, lived short. It's biology. If you're picked on and you stress, you're going to age faster. Yeah.

“Fortunately, I think you probably the same.”

At my age, I've managed to weed out most of the jerks, and I don't work with them at school. I've got a great partner who we have a hobby of longevity together, so I'm lucky in that regard now. If I'm a new one.

Yeah, longevity specialist.

Imagine that. Congratulations. Well, that's nice, too, right? Find someone who just thinks the way you think and has similar likes and features. Like you say.

Yeah. That definitely can help. Yeah. I know a lot of my friends that are really good relationships, they're significant other.

It has the same hobby as them, you know, like whatever it is. They both collect the climb mountains or whatever the fuck it is. Find a thing. But that helps, too. Also, you actually enjoy spending time together doing something that you're both

really excited about. That helps, too. So relationships is one, and the other four major ones from that study were, don't smoke, don't drink, get enough rest, and get exercise. And that was enough to extend by 15 years.

“But what about those old people that live forever and do smoke and drink?”

Because that's kind of weird. Well, they're a 0.01%, they're not examples of what it is. Yeah, it's just. So the majority of people who get old and live to like, centenarians, like, what are the common things that they have?

The big one is that they don't stress a lot, they usually have a good sense of humor. Interesting. Right. They haven't been overweight, and they say that they typically couldn't remember when they lost got sick.

I wonder how much time Twitter takes off your life. Yeah, we should study that. It's already taking a lot of months. It does. And if you read the comments, even--

Yep, exactly. I'm so much happier since I swore off of all that stuff. It's just not good for you. It's really, really bad for you. It's also, you're constantly dealing with the problems of the whole world,

which I think is a lot for a human being that lives in a community and a neighborhood. It's a-- that shit that's happening over there really shouldn't be of primary focus of your life, like where you're in the moment, actually doing your life. It's not the same-- you're not in the same area as this problem, but yet, this problem

is overwhelming, you're all day long life. And you're in fight-off-light constantly. All day. All day. Yeah.

And you're worried about the climate. Oh my God. There's so much that freaks people out that it really shouldn't be affecting you at all. Exactly. And actually, the world doesn't change if you don't read it.

So, that's the key. That's the key. But then you're like, well, you need your passing off the responsibility to other people.

“You should get involved, like, you should get involved.”

I'm going to be over here. That's right. Well, if you focus on doing something good and you go to add it, yes, like yourself. I think that you don't need to be doing more than that. You can't focus on everything, though.

And anybody who tells you can is a fool. Or anybody who tells you what you should or shouldn't be focusing on is a fool. Yeah, a few years ago, someone at a talk that I gave said, you should be working on climate change. I said, after I cure aging, I'll get to climate change.

Yeah. Once you go to China and tell them to stop making coal factory shut the fuck up, just shut up. You know, you're not going to fix it. Yeah.

Yeah. Somebody is. Somebody's working on it. And that's their goal. And God bless them.

Good luck. Yeah. Well, what I try to spend my day is efficiently helping the world.

Other people ask me, why do I study aging in the first place?

And it really is that I'm trying to please my grandmother, like some of us. She was the one that told me that I need to make the world a better place. And she's gone. That's what she said here. When I was four, it was, it's been that ever since.

She told me two things. Humans are evil. She lived through World War II in Hungary and the Russians came in and raped everybody. And then, so she escaped to Australia. And then she said that the other issue is that we don't do enough as humans to better

And so I had that stuck in my mind.

She also, by the way, said, "Oh, we all die." And I thought that's not really fair, is it? And that set me on this path. Make the world a better place and we all die. And you're like, "Ah."

And what I've noticed with my kids is that even if you tell them that, they forget about it because it's brutal to think about death every day. But for some reason, it's just stuck in my head. And every day, I'm like, another 150,000 people are going to die today, do the aging related diseases.

So my lab is mission-oriented, if we are a day late with something, there's a lot of people that are suffering potentially avoidable diseases.

“That's why it's sort of understandable that people like show up outside of your lab.”

And like, I need to talk to you. I need this.

Yeah, blind people want to get in the trial.

It's big, and I think if the trial works can be a very strange world, especially for my lab and for me. But we'll see. And even if it doesn't work this time, the science is strong enough that we'll figure it out.

We will do this. It's just a question of when. And so do you think that AI is going to have a significant impact on the kind of improvements that you're able to? It already is.

We're going super fast. And AI has revolutionized biology, it's revolutionizing everything, of course. And particularly in biology where we used to have to read 15 papers a day, now we can read a million if we want. It's totally different.

Wow. Yeah, it's a super brain. A 19-year-old came to my lab this summer, and the lab grows from 20 to 40 people. And we're trying to figure out how do these three genes reset the cell.

“How does the cell remember what it was 30, 40 years ago?”

Where's that information stored in the cell? And I've got this theory that there's some new biology, there's a record in the DNA somewhere. And I gave him that task. I said, can you just go to the databases of the whole world, look at all the data that's there is an exabytes of data, and see if my prediction is true, or at least you can get evidence

for it. Two weeks later, he came back and the whole team, not the whole team, but five other people were smiling. We have to show you something, David. All right, come in my office.

He sat down, he shows up on the board on this LCD screen. I think we found the smoking gun for what your theory suggests. And he used AI to process all that data, and the AI came back and said, yeah, you're probably right. And there's a 19-year-old straight out of high school who did the, that did something

that the whole field and all these professors and all these fancy servers could not figure out until now. And that is phenomenal, that's so promising, it's so exciting. It is, I mean, the future really does belong to people who can wrangle AI even on their phone.

“I think people on their phones are going to be making medicines, or at least designing them.”

Or bombs. That's the problem. And by weapons. Right. And you recently had, was it Anna on the show, until it took about bio-weapons in this kind

of film? That is a big worry.

I actually had to disclose to the US government when I first got here, that I did have

the capability of making a bio-weapon. The Anna Jacobs episode that we just did on bio-weapons was absolutely terrifying. Yeah. She's, I mean, she scared the shit out of the world with her nuclear warbook and now she's scaring everybody with her bio-weapons book.

Yeah. Yeah, that's scary. It is. What I've got is a database of old known pathogens and new ones that could come. So I'm trying to do my bit there to help the world if it happens again.

Pandemic, or something unnatural. Yeah. Well, that would mean, I mean, when you think about diseases that people get, that just like wreck their entire body, if you really do have an original copy somewhere in their genome of what they look like as a healthy person, and you could switch that back on with

the factory reboot, I mean, we could potentially get rid of all diseases, which is just bananas. And injuries of fixed injuries, grown your limbs potentially, there's a new paper that just came out a few days ago that showed that the tips of the fingers of baby mice can be coaxed once they've healed over as a staff to greek row part of the finger. The telling people down that before, yeah, they found just two factors weren't off.

So it's not that hard. The point is we've got the instructions to be young and to regrow body parts in our body. We just don't use them. That's nuts.

So like a salamander can grow an extra leg or a leg that gets chopped off. Yeah. I believe we still have that capability, we just don't use it. It just didn't make sense to regrow a limb. It was quicker and safer just heal it over as a stub and move on.

But salamanders which get their limbs presumably eaten pretty often maintain that ability. So give us, you know, I wouldn't say that we could evolve this, but I think using a

two factors can grow new limbs.

I don't see a reason why we can't become like a dead pull where injury doesn't hurt us, aging can't hurt us, and we can regrow body parts.

“How far do you think we are away from being able to regrow body parts?”

Oh, I mean realistically, probably a couple of decades, but I've seen enough. That's not that far. I've seen enough to know that it's doable. Couple of decades ago was 2006. Well, things are going super fast, I mean 10 years ago we didn't even know aging was

irreversible announcing humans. That's nuts. Think of that. Well, 2018, I was leaving out here. There was no AI.

Right. It doesn't maintain it was an idea that we had just got the result in my son. I divulged that to the world that it was published, and then we're in humans now. So if it works, then, you know, it's going to be a very different world. When you feel very confidently that some of this stuff is going to work.

Well, it's going to work. I don't know if this trial is going to be successful, but there's going to be a lot of people doing these trials. I have some competition now. Do you know about that?

No. So since I started my company Life BioSciences, which is doing the trials with ER100, others have jumped, joined in, and the party. So Jeff Bezos and others have started Elto's Farmer, they are based in three cities around the world.

They have a few billion dollars to catch up.

Same oldman has retrobio, and let's see, Brian Armstrong from Coinbase, the CEO, started one called New Limit, and they've got a lot of money, old billions. Do you think it's good that there's all these people involved in this? I will. Good.

Yeah, competition. For my own personal benefit, I want humanity to be changed the way it could be. And the more people like Jeff Bezos, the more people with a large bank account that are invested in this, the better. Fantastic.

And of course, the guy like Bezos, he's balling out of control. Why wouldn't you want to look forever? Well, what's left if you've got everything else? Well, also, it's like, if you've got the amount of money that he has, and you can tackle all these different issues, you know, like a space program that is working on, all these

different things. Like, of course, why wouldn't you want to do cool things? What's cooler than being able to grow limbs? Yeah, yeah. What's cooler than being able to cure all diseases and reverse aging?

Well, there's, I don't think there's much cooler.

“That's why I'm doing it because that, I think, can be the biggest gift of humanity is what”

you just said. So I don't know if I'll achieve it, probably not in my lifetime, but at least I've moved the needle and pushed the ball globally in that direction. I wonder if we're going to get to a point in time where we can engineer consciousness into, in terms of, like, find out, like, you find out someone's associate path, you

find out someone's a kleptomaniac or someone's an arsonist, like whatever it is. Like, if you could figure out, like, what these little flaws are in the way the mind works, if you can completely map it out and go, oh, this is the error. This is where you're not making these two connections. Of course.

Of course. Of course, they'll just biology and engineering. There's nothing that stops us. This is the century that we are able to control our own biology, starting with cancer, heart disease and aging.

A true utopian world of peaceful people, but healthy, not peaceful. I don't think, well, I think, curing aging is easier than world peace. Well, if everybody achieved a state of consciousness that allowed them to understand that we're all in this together, yeah, how do we do that? Mushrooms?

Yeah, well, there are certain companies working on this. I know. That's what's interesting, right? Like, Eli Lilly is involved in pharmaceuticals, well, the pharmaceutical company rather is involved in psychedelics.

They just bought a tie.

I think it was like $3.8 billion, so they're all in with real capital.

Yeah. I love it. Yeah, me too. That's great. I love that.

They're doing that. We need more of that. There's too much depression and anxiety in the world. And drug addiction.

“That's why I went to the White House and got the president to get involved in this”

executive order on I-Begain. Yes. Because I've talked to so many people that have had their life completely turned around with I-Begain. So many people that were an opioid addiction and also brain injuries, oddly enough, brain

injuries, all sorts of TBI and CTE that they've had like phenomenal results from this Ebola tree, which is so crazy that this thing had been around for so long and is a scheduled one substance in the United States for no reason whatsoever. There's no risk of addiction. There is no recreational use of it.

It's a horrible experience. I've done it, but apparently it's fucking terrible. And it lasts like 24 hours, like no one's going to be doing that for funsies. Right. Well, the question I think that comes up with all of these drugs is, do you have to have

I think she'll be able to separate. Well, you know, they've actually figured this out with LSD. Yeah. Right. Do you know about this?

No. Okay. So they've engineered a different version of LSD that doesn't give you the hallucinogenic effects, but does give you the benefits in terms of like the cognitive effects. So I tell you guys, or someone else.

I don't know what company has done this.

“Do you think you can find that, do you know what I mean?”

I think it might be a times. But what they've essentially done, and I think it's basically in the lab work stage right now. I don't think that's applied to humans yet. But what they've done is engineered a version of LSD that has all the positive effects

that LSD has in terms of like introspection, being able to rethink and remap and reset the way you view things. Well, without like watching people's face melt and thinking that demons are eating you and all the weird stuff. Yeah.

Well, outstanding. It should happen with psychedelics. The way it's happened with all medicines, right? We start with something from the bark of a willow tree, and then we have aspirin. Right.

We're not eating bark anymore. Right. But sometimes the bark is the really way to let it go. Right.

Unfortunately, sometimes that's the part of the problem is these pharmaceutical drug companies

that they patent these natural compounds and use petroleum-based synthetic methods of creating these medications now that they can sell and profit wildly off of, whereas the really

“the best way to do it is actually to get the plant.”

It's true. There's the whole issue, though, that if it's not approved, then it's the world west. You don't know what you're getting. Right. That's true, too.

We need a middle ground. We need something you can get fast in the market that's known to be safe. But what we're going to need is mind reading, because we need to know if people are full shit. That's what we're going to need.

We're going to need... Gotta work on that. Yes. I think that's going to change humanity more than anything. I think you've got a good bullshit detector.

It's okay. This is a few people that have snuck through, unfortunately. Some people that get through, and they're like, "It takes a while," and you're like, "Ah, shit."

They never coming back on the show.

Yeah. The show, you learn a lot for a person in about three hours. You can kind of, after a while, you can kind of see little things.

“And you have to be forgiving, and you know, you have to be charitable, and some people”

just nervous, and they mistate things, or they exaggerate things, or they forget something and they get it wrong. But then there's people that are just, essentially, they really don't care about anybody but themselves. But some of those people are really good at pretending to be people.

They're really good at pretending. You know, they're really good at pretending to be like a normal person. Oh, here's the L.S.G. thing, R.R. Research is recently engineered in L.S.D. analog called, how do you say it plus minus JRT? That appears to keep many of the L.S.D's brain beneficial and cognitive effects while dramatically

reducing and possibly eliminating its elucidogenic trip in animal studies. So it's almost the same molecules L.S.D. but scientists swap the positions of just two atoms in the structure. The subtle change makes JRT bind more selectively to serotonin receptors in a way that promotes neuroplasticity, growth and repair of synapses, but minimizes elucidogenic signaling.

That is, that's incredible.

Anti-depressant, look at this. Strong anti-depressant effects that doses reported to be around 100 times more potent ketamine in standard rodent tests, cognitive benefits improve cognitive flexibility and performance in tasks modeling the negative and cognitive symptoms of schizophrenia, holy shit. That's incredible when, when and where do we get it?

Well, I think it's fairly recent. Yeah, you see Davis study, they just developed it. Oh, it's in mind. Shout out to our AI sponsor perplexity for providing us with this information. This is again, I mean, like we could just get this information now through AI.

This AI for our show has been gigantic. I mean, it's just the ability to just ask it a question instead of Google searching and have to go through all these different fucking articles. What does it say? What is that?

Who's right? What's this one? What's the website? He just asked AI and perplexity just gives us all the information. So proceedings from National Academy of Science, researchers at California of San Diego, Davis.

Excuse me, you University of California, Davis reported the creation of GRT, chemically modified version of LSD. So this is like what year? So 2025. So last year.

So it's exciting. So it's exciting. Five years away this year. Yeah, you're right. Is that the timeline?

At a minimum, usually it takes that long.

At least there. That you don't need to. Well, how about for schizophrenia? Yeah. That's something.

Yeah.

I mean, that is incredible.

It's saddest things to watch so many fall into the grips of schizophrenia. Yeah. I've seen people fall in and come out, which is interesting. I thought for the bullshit detector, we could have an AI that either dings or has a green or a red on your forehead.

I'm pretty good at it. But I think no one's perfect at it.

“And I think ultimately, if we get to a place, whether it's a technological innovation or”

what have you, where we can actually read the contents of someone's thoughts. I don't think that's outside the realm of possibility. You need an implant, I think. But Elon says the neural links are going to be able to pull that off. Yeah.

You're going to be able to talk without using words. And I'm like, what? I think he's right, though. I think if we all lock into a hive mind and then if we develop through AI, if we develop a universal language, a worldwide, well, we already have that.

What are we all? Well, the new headphones from a big company that I won't name, you can translate. Translate. Yes. Translate.

But it's translating to English. If we just all, the problem with that is there's context, there's all sorts of different things that other cultures and different languages, when it's deciphered and changed and translated into English, you lose a lot of the meaning and the context is weird. If we develop a universal language, that would be ideal.

English is a good substitute. I was shocked.

I'm always shocked, traveling globally, how many people can just speak English now.

Yeah. It's pretty amazing. It's because America rules. You're welcome. Well, we have to thank Britain for that.

America should say you're welcome. Yeah. They're cute.

“They did a good job started out, but we took the ball.”

That is true. That is true. So who's next? China. I hope not.

I want to learn Chinese. That's too hard. It's all a fucking characters. That's ridiculous. Even people that I know that could speak Mandarin, they can't write it.

To get to that level, I have a couple of friends that speak fluent Mandarin and they can't write it. Writing is. Yeah.

Well, the students in my lab who come from China, they're being picked on by the immigration,

but they don't want to go home. They love it here. I'm sure because they're stealing all your secrets and they'll bring it back on. There's a lot of regulation on that now as a scientist. Oh, yeah.

Oh, I could imagine. Yeah. I mean, truly has to be. Because that is an actual real threat. Exactly.

But come through my lab have to be vetted now. Right. But the people that come over here and experience the kind of freedom that you have in America. Oh, yeah.

I came here from Australia. Australia is pretty free, but compared to Australia, America is so different. Yeah. I can't go back. What's the big difference?

That I feel I can do anything I want if I just put my mind to it. There's not social barriers. There's not monetary barriers, at least for a white male like me who's got a degree. I know it's not for everybody. But I feel like if I want to start a company, I've got a great idea.

I can do that here. In fact, chance you'll do that in Australia. People aren't willing to invest in great ideas down there. Not often. That's a bummer.

Do you think there changes anytime soon? No. The US is so unique. There's a lot of money flowing people are willing to place a bet and even lose the money. That's rare.

Australians, most of the world, if not all, people are scared to lose their money if they have it. Here it's like, OK. I risked it. Help the world.

I feel good. It's a very generous country. Very. And I love it here. It's when I arrived here, I just feel I'm home.

I love hearing that from people that have come from somewhere else because it kind of reaffirms why people in America are so proud of what this country is, should be.

“And that's why it bumps me out where people are so mad at America in terms of, I get”

looking in terms of foreign policy and some of the things that are wrong with America. But just in overall, this experiment and self-government is pretty remarkable. Yeah, I watched the TV show, was it the American experiment, came out for the anniversary of the 250th? I don't see it.

You got to see it. Well, it's a great one. It's the founding fathers and their lives and how they were fighting and what was going on behind scenes. They were just young kids.

They were in their 20s, 30s. I know. That nuts? Yeah. Just Benjamin Franklin was the old dude.

He was so young, but they were, in the middle of it, they kind of realized they were making history, but so many things could have gone wrong. We would not have had the United States, if just a few votes went one way or the other. A few wars. Yeah.

A few of the battles that they had. Exactly. The U.S. was losing the war against Britain, badly. Yeah. The French town.

Yeah. Yeah. We don't think the French enough, actually. I know. Right.

And somehow they became our enemy. Yeah. In the Gulf War, they turned French fries in a freedom fries, because people hated the French. Yeah.

But everyone hates the French.

So I think French. I think French. I think good French.

“I think generally, when people were arrogant, it's because they did something”

fucking awesome. Well, in the 1800s, they did. They conquered Europe. No, not sure if that's awesome. Here's a fun perplexier search.

I just said, "Do Americans have a risk of gene?" A risk gene. Yeah. One of the best studied variants in the dopamine receptor gene. D-R-D-4, specifically the seven repeat seven R version, is associated in some studies

with novelty-seeking, impulsivity, and higher financial, or social risk-taking. I wonder if I have that gene, for sure. This seven probably not, who knows? The seven R variant is unevenly distributed around the world. It's populations.

Inpopulations across the Americas, it shows up at roughly 48% of crumbs on studied. Well, in East Asia, it's found only about 2%. Wow. That's crazy. It'll come down to genetics.

Evolutionary works to just it became more common in groups that migrated further after leaving Africa, and those lineages are strongly represented in the Americas today. That.

That's actually, let me tell you a second of the people that, you know, have the balls to

fucking come here? Yeah. Where your balls, you don't have to do that much, but you can still have balls to gamble and take action. Yeah.

That must be a product. And Australian should have it. That completely meant well, sort of. You guys got forced there. They moved your body over there because they were criminals.

Right. But this, this DDR gene that you just saw that was a DDR4, I know a bit about it because I'm writing it in my next book, the DRD4, thanks to any. I call this the FU gene, because I'm trying to figure out what makes human special over other animals, and this is one of them that we are seekers of explorers.

And it turns out that this gene is turned on in teenagers, it gets eventually switched off, not totally. But that might be why teenagers say FU to their parents. But it's a way, genetically, to get them out of the nest, like, oh, I can't stand these parents.

They suck, they're idiots. I'm out of here. That's in this, in this gene. Well, it's also, I, as a parent, have been very aware of not doing that to my kids. Like, not forcing them into something that they don't want to do or pushing them in

a general direction, but rather encouraging them to seek out their interests and encouraging them to just take a chance. And if I ever correct them, if I ever get upset about something, one of the first things that I tell them is I've done all everything that you've done. I've made every mistake.

I've fucked up, I'm, you're smarter than me. I've fucked up everything, I've lied to my parents, I lied to teachers, I've done everything that you're doing. So this is not a unique thing. I'm just telling you from my own personal experience and my perspective, this is why

“I think, 'cause I love you and I want you to do well in life and I just want you to recognize”

this. And that's how I correct my kids. I love that.

It's never, like, you listen to me because I'm your father.

There's none of that. Yeah, yeah. I don't know why we were raised. It doesn't work. No.

And it makes you resentment. But also, probably makes you want to do better than your parents, so, like, motivates you in a certain way. My parents were not risk takers at all and my whole life had been like a wild risk taker. That's really the same.

Yeah, I was resentful that my father didn't have enough ambition. Now it was a great guy. We're best friends actually. It's been the greatest thing for me. But one of the things I did with my kids, your mind in me is he's 19.

He's a well-built guy, because we were going to the gym for a number of years, I've tried to train him in health. But he spent the summer with me. He's literally still working for me this summer to help with the podcast and the magazine were about to launch.

And Benjamin's his name. He's the best kid, but he select off. He's like, "Ben, I put you in charge of social media. You haven't posted in a week. What's going on?"

Well, you know, I slept in, but so I did think am I going to get mad at him like I would a normal employee or do I treat him differently? And I decided to treat him differently, probably because he's my son, but I didn't want to ruin the relationship.

“And what I did was I said, you know, I really think you can do better.”

I think everything you've done, the weightlifting, the calculus, you're amazing.

But in this, you're not. So what's going on? And it worked. We become closer. He's really into it.

He's doing a good job. That's great. So that's the way to do it. I think you can't be too hot on them, because you fucked up. Yeah.

I mean, that kind of can work, but it's a blunt instrument. And it doesn't work on everybody. And it also develops resentment. And they also, they miss out on experiencing your perspective as a, like, for them to understand that you are just a person who's lived longer than them and that you can help them navigate

Yeah, so you don't have to make the same mistakes. Yeah, that's why you're helping them. You're talking to them about this, not because you're just mean dad who likes to fucking tell the kids what to do, because we've all experienced that. I mean, I had friends growing up with fathers of fucking scream at them and throw things

and beat them and it's like, God, and then you just grow up fucking traumatized and they're

always resentful and angry.

Instead of just recognizing that, like, oh, I'm so fortunate that my parents have this perspective where they can explain to me why I'm going through what I'm going through and how they got through it. Like a mentor, you know, the best friend you're the mentor, best friend of work either. No, that doesn't work either, because that just allows too much shenanigans, you know,

“you have to have some rules, you know, you have to have some sort of regulations.”

Yeah, but you also kids tend to, well, what's that? How do you kids tend to? Oh, they're great. Great. I'm so, so lucky.

So fucking lucky. I mean, I feel so fortunate. They're so smart and ambitious and driven and so it's wild.

It's wild to watch, you know, and talented and it's, and also, like, we never went through

that period where they hit teenagers and they hate you. Like that? Well, I like that. God, that's so nice for you. I mean, my youngest should get upset at me sometimes about certain things, but she

bounces back quickly. It's never, like, some kids where they just grow to hate their parents. Like, you already forging, maybe they don't have strong one. I don't know about that. I think it's how you communicate with them.

I really do. I think that's a big factor.

“You have to communicate with them, like, you truly care about their development.”

And the most important thing I think, the most important thing I think is that I always tell them whatever you've done, whatever mistake you've made, I made way worse mistakes. I was like, I am not coming at you from a flawless person. You know, I'm not coming at you from the perspective of someone who, like, you're an idiot. I figure that out.

You should figure it out. Like, no, whenever that went from the time they were really little, anytime I had a correctum, I said, I did everything that you're doing, everything. I threw my food on the floor, too. Yes, all the above, whatever fucking stupid thing you've done as a kid, I guarantee you.

That is great advice. Really great advice. I hope everyone listening here is that, because I actually had to learn the hard way.

My first kid, I did what my parents did, which was, you can't say that, but yeah.

And my first is a lot more rebellious and distant than I thought it was interesting. Yeah, it actually is really true, I've seen it. Yeah, and I thought it was going to kill their motivation, but it doesn't at all. I thought, like, you know, making things easy for them and not being strict. Like, maybe it's good to be strict, because then you just have this determination to show

everybody. I don't think that was my thing as a child. Like, I'll fucking show you, but I don't think everybody needs that.

“I think you're much better off having a healthy relationship with ambition, where you're”

excited about things, because you're passionate about them, and you find great reward in being creative or being enthusiastic about something. Exactly. And open their eyes to the world that exists. Yes.

I thought we used to do work experience, you go and do a job, and that's your work experience. The reason I wanted my son band to work with me is he can see how what it's like to be an entrepreneur and build something and be excited and work is super fun. Yeah. That's what.

I think a lot of kids just don't get that experience that I don't know what's possible. Right. And just showing them the world is what we can do as parents. That's awesome. Yeah.

And, you know, I mean, some people don't have that at home, unfortunately, but that's one of the cool things about the world that we live in is that kids today have access to so many different perspectives now because of the internet. There's so many different podcasts and YouTube conversations and different things where they can just take a little tool from that, just take a little piece from that and apply

it to the way they interact with the world. Yeah. For sure. And I would encourage parents to give their kids stuff to read. We talked about social media, how that's just addictive.

I saw how my kids wanted to just scroll through their phones than read. And if they can't read a book, give them a magazine. I subscribe to the NetNet Geo National Geographic for my kids and I think get them used to reading. It's going to be a lost art if we don't.

I know, isn't that nuts? I maybe read 10% of the things that I consume. I consume so much in audio just for time reasons because there's so much time where I'm driving my car or I'm working out or I'm in the sauna or I'm in the hyperbaric chamber or I'm in the red light therapy.

It is similar, but I think it's only like 70% of reading. I don't think it's 100%. I don't think you get the full effect, but it's still way better than not doing it. But I'm aware that like sitting there, concentrating, actually reading a book without hearing another person's voice talking, there's another mechanism, there's another thing that's

going on. That's a different way you interact with the material, whether it's non-fiction or fiction. Yeah, I like the fact that I can listen to you and I'm doing something else, I have to sit down, can move, go for a walk. Yeah, that's for me, it's just I have too many interests, I have way too many things that

I do. So it's very hard for me to just allocate a certain amount of time to sit there in silence and read. Yeah, I use reading to fall asleep, that's a good way. It does do that, right?

It's kind of nuts how well it does that. Yeah, although I'm finding it's harder to read now that my eyes aren't young, need some of my age. Red light therapy. Red light therapy.

I've tried that, does it work for you? Oh, yeah. Oh, I mean, people are skeptical about this and they think I'm full of shit. No, I don't need reading glasses anymore. Really?

I had reading, I always have these fucking things laying around.

I don't even use them anymore. That's awesome. Yeah, there's a lot of science now for red light. It's real. It's real.

I tell you, as a regular user for multiple years, it took a while, it took like, I was waiting for in the beginning, like, whether fuck, in the back and not only that in the beginning because I don't close my eyes in the red light bed, I thought it was making things blurrier. I was like, oh my god, am I fucking up my eyes, I like listening to these assholes? But no, it just took a while and then over the course of, like, many months, I started

seeing some small improvements. And then I started seeing some pretty big improvements over the course of about a year, whereas now, it's not my eyes aren't perfect. They aren't like they were when I was 20, but they are way better than they were when I was 50.

Oh, often did you have to do that? I do it three times a week minimum.

“That's what I try to do, but sometimes I'll do it five days a week.”

Well, I just get in there and it's 20 minutes. I lay in a light bed, close my eyes, open my eyes, whatever. It seems to work on your vision, even if you wear a blindfold. What about people that kind of photo bed? Can you get a little bit?

Yes. You can get, well, there's a company called, it's called Juve, right? J U U V. Is it the name of the company? They were our sponsor at one point in time. That's how I started it.

They had, it's just a light panel that you stand in front of. Oh, yeah. And that works, too, but this one, the one that I got, a red and near infrared light therapy devices, Juve, J O O V V, medical grade, light therapy devices. I had one of those, and that's when I started seeing benefits, but the, the big one that

I got, I got from Gary Brecker from his company, and it's, it's a, like a fucking tanning bed in your line in it. That one's amazing. Oh. But that's expensive.

“I think you have to have that for those kind of improvements.”

Also improves collagen, your skin, makes you look better, and, but for me, the most obvious and profound was the improvement in my vision. Well, it makes sense, the, the science behind red light wasn't there 10 years ago, and people were questioning it. But now we know if you shine certain wavelengths like nearing infrared on cells, the mitochondria,

which are important for reversing aging or slowing it, get revved up. Um, it's actually related to Viagra, long story, but Viagra and red light have something in common, and it does help mitochondria, and that's very important for the eye.

The mitochondria actually, the most important, in any part of your body, the eye is the

most important part, and part of the reason we lose our vision is the mitochondria don't make enough energy for you. How come you haven't done red light therapy before then? Well, I do, but not, uh, routinely, so I have one of those bricks that I turn on while I'm in the shower, and I have a red light cap for my hair, which there's some evidence.

[laughter] [inaudible] What I do is I, yeah, it does, it looks a little bit silly. I don't wear it in public, but, um, I do lower it, and I look at it, and it shines in my eyes and on my face, in the hopes that it might help you.

Yeah, they have one that you wear like, Dr. Doom, like, fits over your face, and blast red light and your whole face.

“I definitely feel that weird afterwards, and I can see speckles, but I, I think the”

design says that it can help. Well, all I know is my own anecdotal experience, and for me, it has radically improved my vision. That's a good tip. Yeah.

It stopped. My vision was degrading, like, it was, it was pretty hot.

Like, I first started using, like, reading glasses, like, a one X, like it made it

a little better. I'm like, oh, this is a little better. Makes it clear. And then I went to two, and then I was using 2.5, and it made it better. But it was like, God, this is annoying.

reach shit. Now, crystal clear. Yeah. No problem at all.

Well, so my latest show is about the eye and how to protect the eyes, health, and

also, as a lot, you can do actually supplements, red light, other things. I take supplements for it, too. I should mention that. Take no affiliation with these people who are pure encapsulations makes a supplement called macular support.

And I take that, and it's a combination of lutein and a few other things. Yeah. There was a trial, a while ago that showed that taking Xanthin and all those Xanthin, lutein, lutein, they good for the eye. So you can get products like that.

Do you take it? Not that brand, but yes, I take something similar. And has it helped you at all? I don't know. I haven't done an experiment.

Right. Well, if you weren't taking it, maybe you would have more degeneration. Yeah.

Well, you know, I've got neoprophic vision.

I don't need glasses. Do you really? Neoprophic. Neoprophic. I mean, I think lutein, low light, low light is with main issue.

I'll go to a restaurant with my kids, and they can read the menu, and I'm like, that is so embarrassing. You can read that. How do you even read that? I can't read shit.

Like, you know what? Why? Well, this is what I think. So we know from my lab's work that the retina, because it has tens of thousands of endings that pick up the light.

As you get older, those nerves lose their identity, and they're not working as well. And what we do is, with our therapy, we can restore those nerves back to being functional nerves.

“And that's why mice and monkeys that lose their retinal function get their perfect vision”

back again. We're reminding those cells that have forgotten how to work. So in your eye and my eye, we're 22 months apart, that those nerves, about half of them, have forgotten how to work properly. So we want to fix that and go back to being young.

It's not that our nerves had gone. They're not dead. Right there, and we can restore them. And that's going to be true for a lot of organs. Is that the cells is still there, they just need to be reminded how to work again.

What are the potential negative consequences of this kind of work? Like when you, when you sit up at night and you worry, I hope it doesn't do this. Is it cancer, is that the big one? Yeah, it's, though we've done a lot of work to relate real fears. It is possible that if we go too young, we can cause dysplasia, which is cells doing

things, but they shouldn't, or if they multiply and spread that would be good. If you make the cells too young, like what I was saying before, about don't turn me into a baby. Right. We don't want to go there.

And got the Nobel for it, but that's not good here.

But we never see ourselves turn into stem cells again.

We can't. We had mice that we left at, left the gene therapy on for 21 months in the eye. And 19 months in the whole body of the animal. And if anything, they had less tumors than the ones that didn't get treated. And we actually know from a wonderful student in my lab in a lot.

She's a PhD student. I found that when you turn on these three same genes, not in the eye, but in cancer cells and tumors growing in mice, human cancer is growing in mice, they shrink. So we think it might actually help for cancer as well, which was a nice surprise. Wow.

That's incredible. It makes sense, right? If you wake up with cancer cell and it says, crap, I shouldn't be growing. I should be a, you know, a liver cell, or something similar. Now it kills itself.

So we see that cells wake up, they realize what they were 30 years ago, and then they kill themselves. Hmm.

“What is on the horizon in terms of, like, what would you like to accomplish?”

Or would you like to work on that you can't do currently? Well, lots, lots, and you know, funding in my lab got completely cut last year. And we've managed to survive through donations. Why the funding get cut? Was it a USAID thing?

You remember there was a spat between Harvard and the federal government. All of the funding to our medical school got cut. Was that during the time where the president was defending those anti-Semitic comments on campuses? Yeah.

Well, allegedly, I'm not getting into the politics. No, yes, that was the politics. No, yes, that was the politics. But during that whole thing. Yeah.

Yeah. So what, what we, I almost had to fire most of the people in my lab during that episode. It was quite scary. But I raised, so now my lab survives on donations, not on federal government money. Thank you, friends.

Thank you. Thank you.

“Well, the thing is you've accomplished enough for people like, I think he's on to something”

and I want to live forever. Well, I'm lucky. Most scientists can't raise money like that, so really, really it's a blessing. And now I'm raising money through a foundation to help other scientists survive. But yeah, it's been a blessing.

Yeah.

I wish I could go faster.

“I wish I could try multiple approaches, so we don't just have one shot on goal.”

It's going slower than I would want with a big injection of cash. We could do a lot of trials, a lot of different tissues. We could do a whole body-reant. Rejuvenation as well. Do you have a website where people can donate?

I do. It's lifespan.com. And so if you go to lifespan.com, there's a link there. Yep, it's a foundation and we're raising money for this type of research. Is it tax deductible?

Depends on how big the donation is. For $10, you get the new magazine that we're putting out and you learn all about how to live longer. I'm hoping to build the world's largest longevity community of millions of people who can learn how to really live longer and build healthcare from the ground up because top down

from the government hasn't worked. Yeah. Actually, I have a gift for you. Well, you're not. I made something for you that's unique.

This is for you, Joe, as a thanks to all the support you've given me in the science over the years.

First edition, lifespan magazine lays in gentlemen.

Look at that. It's written by scientists. So it covers like a velvet cover. What is this? I figure it out.

Like that. Inside is the magazine. This is material. It's beautiful. The lure.

The lure, of course. Great expense. No.

“The magazine doesn't come with the lure.”

That's just special for Joe. As a thank you president. Thank you. Very much. Most science out there is written by reporters who don't know what they're talking about.

So we wrote this for the public and you can believe whatever you read in there. All right. Beautiful. Yes, thanks. So you have to trust it.

So that's at lifespan.com. You can subscribe. Get that every month just for $10. I like to take it the bottom. Life's too short.

Just fix that. That's our slogan. That's life's game. That's an awesome slogan. So it's a community.

It's the show. My show is also called lifespan on YouTube. But the magazine is a passion project. I want to put out something that people love. It's beautiful.

All right. It's like National Geographic. By the way, just today. This is no joke. It seems crazy.

But my labs researches on the cover of National Geographic. That's awesome. That just came out today. They heard by the way. It's not geo.

They said, you're going on Joe Rogan. I went, yeah. They go, right. We'll put it out early. So you can now read about my labs research on that geo as well today.

That's very cool. That's very cool. So you would just like to do more. Have more funding. Do more.

That's the thing that you wish you could be working on now. Just having more different. More different studies and tests running concurrent. Well, we could go so fast with AI because it's spitting out new drug candidates all the time that we can't test it takes years to get through. So with money, we could do a lot more trials and put these through different diseases much faster.

If you had no regulations like an island of Dr. Moro type deal. Well, at the risk of getting kicked out of my university, theoretically, we could very safely do more animal studies and with those best candidates. Put them into humans quicker. Right now, it takes years.

Taking us close to 10 years to go from the first discovery in my lab in nature magazine to now.

But that's too slow. People die 150,000 a day on this planet. It's terrible. So I would love to have the resources, you know, like Jeff Bezos and others. Yeah.

My company by the way, even though we lead the pack of all these guys, we're really small. We're we're pretty small little outfit in in Boston.

“We've raised a lot less money, but we're because I think we're focused.”

We have and we started earlier. We're doing pretty well. That's the big one. You started earlier. You have a lot of momentum on your side.

Yeah. But I think we we could have a big impact on aging in our lifetime with more money directed in general at the field, not just me, but spread it. And so the money that we raised from the magazine is going to support other labs as well. And students who can find these medicines quicker. So if you in a perfect world and you had unlimited resources, you would just run a bunch of different clinical trials and studies concurrently.

Yeah. AI is feeding us molecules. We put them into mice. We go to monkeys. We go to humans.

And it'll just be fast. One of my friends. I'll accept Karongkov. He has a similar company. But not on exactly what we do, not on reprogramming. But he's able to think he's on his 35th drug.

But he's driven by AI and robots. His whole lab is robots. At least he says they are. And then goes into humans.

That approach applied to what we do would be incredible.

That's best case scenario. That would be incredible. Well, I'm hoping through this conversation that people are going to reach out. And I'm hoping through this conversation that people are realizing, like, oh, well, so much work has been done.

And so many breakthroughs have been made. If they had more access to resources, more access to different, whatever you need. And that you could run all these different studies. We could. We were our budget in my lab is only.

It's almost three three and a bit million. It's not much, right? Compared to what impact it could have on the planet, which is trillions of dollars saved, just in the US alone.

So it's a little bit of donation or getting a magazine. The impact would be life-changing for all of us. Who doesn't age? Who doesn't get diseases? Right. Who doesn't want to feel better? Yeah.

It's also like so much, you can get so much more done if you feel better.

Well, we take it for granted until we feel sick.

And that's like, all right. I think what it's like to feel well. Exactly. Exactly. I had a day, a week and a half ago, where I came back from Italy.

I was a little jet lagged. I couldn't sleep right. And I worked out really hard a bunch of days at a row. And I was working constantly. And then I had one day I was like, I kind of feel like shit. Like, I better not do anything today.

And after I was on work, I just watched TV and relaxed. And I was like, I can't wait to feel better again. Well, imagine what it's like being old and frail. That's every day is or sick.

And right now you can't do anything about it. Yes. And while you're healthy, you take it for granted. And that's the real sin. You're like, ah, I'm fine. I'm great.

“I mean, this is what people do when they go out drinking, right?”

They take advantage of the fact that it's worth it for a good time.

Just poison myself for a night. Well, it's not worth it because that also accelerates aging. But big time, right? It says what I tell my kids who like alcohol, like most kids. You know, you might feel better in a few days,

but the memory of that is going to be in your body. Yeah. I think you can drink. You know, it's fine to get drunk once in a while, but not a lot, not constantly. I used to drink once a day, and I do not do that anymore.

Because the the date is incontrovertible. That it affects the brain, even the size of the brain, if you drink constantly. I took eight months off of no alcohol at all, and I felt a lot better. Exactly. I started drinking again one night.

I went to dinner with my wife and had a margarita. I was like, I think I'm back. Oh, really? Well, I'd drink now. I do not get drunk.

I haven't gotten drunk. This was over a year ago when I had a drink again, I think. I think it was a year. I'm not sure. But point is, I have not been drunk since then.

Yeah. I will have a glass of wine with dinner, or I will have a like a shot of whiskey before I go on stage, like a little bit, but I do not get drunk anymore. It's just not worth it. The feeling afterwards is so terrible.

The morning, and especially for me, because I work out so much, when I wake up, it's like, that workout's going to get done. Okay. Whether I feel like shit or not, that workout's going to get done. And this is going to be rough.

And you got the sweats itself. Right. Versus when I feel great, I love the workout. I'm excited. Like, I look forward to it.

Even when it's hard, when it's over, I'm like, "Whoo, all right. Let's eat." And I don't feel bad. I feel good.

And it's like, why am I giving up that for a few hours of, you know, it's just not worth it. It's not worth it. Yeah, well, you'll find it even without alcohol, but I'm not. So I've lost a lot of my humor.

“But there's nothing better than feeling great, right?”

Yes. And you can make it your hobby of working on your health and your longevity. You'll enjoy it. Yes. It shouldn't be a chore.

It'll also directly affect the other things that you love, because you will have more energy. Your life energy, your vitality, is so important for anything you're doing. Whether it's a creative thing or an intellectual thing,

like anything that you're doing, if you have more energy, you'll be able to apply more energy to that thing. It's that simple. You're building a bigger gas tank for yourself. You're building a larger engine.

Yeah, that's what you're doing. Exactly. Mentally, physically. You can do so much when you feel good. You jump out of it.

If you wake up in your tired, woozy, you know, your eyes are puffy. That's not how it should be when you wake up. Right. If you're getting and sleep is important for longevity, of course, if you're getting good deep sleep,

“then you should wake up and you feel great.”

Yes. You don't even necessarily need a cup of coffee, but it's not bad if you have one. I like coffee. I'm not going to stop drinking it.

I don't give a fuck what anybody says. Right. It's good. And I'm also reflecting information. Some people say it's good for you.

It's good for you. Come on. Oh, really is.

“Anyone that says it's not doesn't read the list.”

Well, I would imagine an over-abundance of caffeine is not good. Too much is not good. But that's true for everything. Too much salt to kill you. Yeah.

Yeah. It's not a pound of salt. You'll be dead in an hour. Right. You can get away with very little sleep, actually,

if long as it's deep sleep, because what it's doing is clearing out the misfolder proteins in your brain and the toxins, we know this, the gloom fatty system. And if you get deep sleep for an hour,

you're actually going to wake up much cleaner healthier. And what I've been able to do with some work is figure out how to get deep sleep every night. The efficiency on these rings that say about 90 sometimes.

I'd like you to say rings, because you're wearing two or rings. Or what do you call us? Why do you wear two different rings? Because when I've got to, neither of them is correct.

No, the truth is some of them,

some of them are really good for sleep. The others are good for heart. And so this one's my heart, and this is my sleep. What is the difference in the companies? Which one's which?

You don't mind me saying who they are. No, this is an aura. If I want. And then the thin one is called Ultrahuman. Ultrahuman.

Yeah. And which one is good for what? Well, I find aura really good for sleep. That's the specialty. And then the heart for Ultrahuman.

My cardiac age. Oh, okay. So it's just like giving you data all the time. Yeah, and they're getting even better, because I don't get paid by these companies,

but I do like that they pop up with AI information now. Have you noticed that Dada Dara, or I noticed that you ate a meal last night that sparked your glucose. You know, and this one, I want us to run right now,

so I can see what's going on anyway. But yeah, they're becoming like a fucking monitored bro. I am two rings at a patch. It's a hobby. It's a hobby.

But you learn a lot. And I put one of these on my son, and he stopped eating bad food for a long while. Really? Because he was just recognizing the impact

that they were on his body. Yeah, it's good for kids. Now I wouldn't say, slap it on a kid without pediatrician and recommendation.

But it was amazing what happened when he could see

the crap that was going in his mouth was doing to his blood sugar. Really? It was amazing.

“I think it's a great learning tool if nothing else.”

Right. Just to have actual data. I know a lot of people, it's changed their opinion on alcohol, particularly the ordering when they look at their sleep. Yeah.

Because even just a couple of drinks before you go to bed, like a couple of drinks at dinner, and then you realize, oh, God, my sleep was all fucked up

because of those drinks. Yeah. Lay off the medaphinal, too. For me, anyway. But yeah.

Some medaphinal fucks with your sleep as well. Yeah. I have to work really hard to sleep well. There's quiet time. There's relaxation.

The lights are dimmed. I think about a happy place rather than work. I had to do that because for 50 years I was burning the candle at all ends. I was really burnt out.

And so I fixed that now. I don't worry. So are you one of those guys that like dimmed the lights in your house a couple hours before you go to bed

and prepare to stay off your phone? Yeah. All those stuff. Well, I don't say if my phone is much as I want to, but yeah.

Where red light glasses or anything like blockers? I used to. I haven't found a big difference for myself. But, um, interesting fact that isn't well known. If you block blue light during the day or just stay indoors,

there's a guy in Japan who says that what what happens is you get short sightedness. And because the mice that lack the ability to sense violet light get myopia short sighted. And he's got a device that indoors you can shine this

but our modern world, the LEDs and being indoors, means we barely get violet light.

“And that would be so interesting if that's what's causing”

last half to work glasses. Wow. And he claims that people that live out in the countryside that see blue light all the time because they go out don't have as much need for glasses.

That actually makes sense. Well, particularly artificial light and then also light that's from a close source. Like one of the things that if I do, if I'm, if I'm tired and I lay in bed and I try to read something online on my phone,

it hurts my eyes. The room's dark and it irritates my eyes.

Where it never irritates my eyes normally.

But it's like at the end of the day, you know, I got some more fatigued and so. And you trying to focus on something. Yeah, it's great. So like now think about that when people are doing it all day long.

Maybe doing it at work. We have to stay in a computer monitor from three feet away or closer and then you're looking at your phone all the time, where you're working from a tablet or you're watching television. It's like you're constantly staring at these light sources

that are artificial. Yeah, and also keep in mind that the muscles have to focus.

You actually relax, you see out there. Right.

“But to look here, your muscles here have to be straining for hours”

and they get very tired. And I guess eventually they age to a point where you cannot keep it up. And sometimes I do this to see better though. [laughs]

Well, it all makes sense if you think about it, particularly like if your eyes are accustomed to only focusing on things that are close. I mean, that was what they would say about reading when people would have glasses.

Oh, you fucked up your vision reading, which I used to think was nonsense. But I'm like, well, kind of makes sense. If you spend all day long focus, even though it's on a screen, you're spending all day long focus on a book that's only a foot

from your face. Yeah. It doesn't make sense. Things get really inflexible. Right.

And I'm seeing this with my father.

He's otherwise in private health at 87, which is amazing.

But it desires that are failing him. Maybe she got him a red light bed. That's a great idea. Yeah. I'm going to do that.

He's arriving tonight, actually, from Sydney. He's a get him a red light bed, man. Because I'm telling you, there's not a thing that I've done that's impacted me in a more obvious way than that.

“In terms of like something that's hugely important.”

Yeah. I'm going to do it. And I mean, he's in to science. He's been taking anime and reserve a troll met foreman exercising. He goes to gym to a three times a week.

Well, that's six months. Right. He's a role model at 87 with no diseases, no aches or pains. That's a lot. He's struggling the world.

He was in Japan two weeks ago. Wow. Coming to Boston. That's, that's so cool.

I love hearing about people that are older

that just keep on top of it and stay active and stay alive and enjoy life. Yeah. Exactly. He's a great role model and what it shows is he was an average guy to Lee was in his 60s.

And he figured he was going to die in his 70s probably. Because everyone in my family dies young. Because we've got pretty bad genes. But he's just taken life by the horns and just is running with it. And has not physically aged except for his eyes in the last 20 years.

That's right. And that's not an exaggeration. Anyone who's seen him knows he walks. He moves. He travels.

He does everything. Like he was when he was 40.

“That's where things like resistance exercises are so important.”

Because it maintains bone density. It maintains muscle mass. It maintains your ability to just get around and do things. That's the other reason to do that. I mean, you're going to be really strong when you're older.

And you won't fall. And if you do fall, you'll bounce. You won't break a bone. And he's like that. He's been working out at the gym.

Mostly strength training. But balance as well. It's very important to maintain balance. He's better at the gym than me at 87. That's incredible.

It just shows how weak I know he is. Yeah, I got to go to the gym. How about next time, if you have me on. You're going to be buff. Do you get your trainer?

You're in Massachusetts. There's a ton of trainers out there. Great. Close it all right. It's a deal.

We'll find you someone. We'll find you someone. Three days a week. That's all you need. The other day is you could do stuff elective.

Do stuff that you want. You know, but three days a week get a personal trainer and then have work out with them. You're on. Right. I will let you know when it's going.

Or you help me.

I can hear though that there's probably a few million people right now screaming.

David, just go to the lab. Forget about the gym. You need to make work. It'll help everything. It'll help the amount of research you're able to do.

You'll have more energy. You'll be more excited about things. I'm sure you've seen those MRI cross sections of people's tissue where they take like a 70 year old man who's a 70 year old man who's a 70 year old man who's a marathon runner. It's fucking extraordinary.

I've seen my own. There's too much fat in the muscle. Gotta get rid of it. Yeah. Yeah.

It's really extraordinary when you see those images like those really break it home. And the bone changes bone tends to fat too. Pots of the bones. Yes. You've got to have the strength training for sure.

A hundred percent strong. Yeah. A hundred percent strength training is that's mandatory. Yeah. And then did you do a lot of aerobic exercises?

Yes. Yeah. I saw the training bike. Oh, yeah. Well, you saw my hypoxium machine that I just got installed today.

Yeah. The hypoxium thing, what it does is it replicates 14,000 feet above sea level. And you train in it. And it also has a heat element so you can ramp the heat up to 115 degrees. So 115 degrees and 14,000 feet above sea level.

That's much you pitch you kind of stuff. Yeah. You're going to hell. That's what it is. It's straight to hell.

It's feel like it. But it shouldn't work. Yes. It's great for muscle. Yes.

And for adaptation. That's the big thing. And my friend Roman, who installed it, who's one of the guys from the company. That's a very specific with this protocol, in terms of monitoring your heart rate, when to do it, when to push.

How much time to spend and how you do it. It's very scientific in terms of the application on athletes. Yeah.

Okay. Fellow Australian. And he's a big hunter.

It does a lot of mountain hunting.

“And he said there's nothing he's ever done.”

That's had more of an impact on his cardio. So it's been phenomenal. Sounds wonderful, actually. There's a lot of science behind that. You probably know it.

The best results are when people are either having too much oxygen or not enough. And you might say, well, that's weird. Why does it matter? Well, you got to get out and become a comfort zone. Or meet us.

We keep talking about. And there's a big study in Israel where they put people in these hyperbaric chambers. I've done that protocol. Yeah. Yeah.

Sixty sessions of 90 minutes over 90 days.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because the data's intercontrovertible. Better wound healing.

Better memory. Increase and tell me or like. Yeah. I saw that one. That's Israel's study.

Yes. Well, I thought was interesting was when I went over there myself and sat in that thing. They made a joke over there in Israel by way. They said, this gas chamber here that were you going into. Made by Germans.

I thought that's not a funny joke. Don't say that again. Anyway, I probably shouldn't have shared that. I did go into the chamber.

“And what I found out and was that they believe what I believe which is.”

It's not so much the high pressure that's good for you. It's the coming down that mimics hypoxia which your room will mimic. So the lack of oxygen or the perceived lack of oxygen from a high state is the benefit. Interesting. And that makes a lot of sense.

You're going to grow new blood vessels. Just like Viagra is going to open things up. We actually had a paper 2012 that found that one of the supplements that I take. Which everyone knows about nomen, called allow animals to grow new blood vessels. By getting rid of a protein that accumulates with aging.

The bottom line is we could mimic this lack of blood vessels with this pill.

But by exercising it's the same. What I really believe which is barely talked about in the medical establishment is that. A major reason we get sick when we get older is lack of blood flow. It's really talked about, right? Vascular dementia, second largest cause of dementia in the world.

Blood flow. And it's the easiest to reverse. You just do exercise or take one of these. Vagra, PDE5 inhibitors, Viagra. Or you take my stuff which is nomen which we think also works.

Or all the above which is probably the best approach. I'm two out of three. Hopefully soon a three out of three. But yeah, you know, to protect your brain which is the most important because you don't want to be old and demented.

That's worse than anything. Keep the blood flowing in your body.

“Remember that blood flowing is important.”

Yes, couldn't agree more. David, you're a treasure. I really appreciate you. Thank you being here. You've been so kind and thank you for getting the word out here about the great science that's going on.

Oh my pleasure to it. I'm so happy that someone like you out there doing this. I mean, it's such an enormous benefit to people that are listening to the world. And you're literally doing God's work. We'll try to do more.

Thank you very much. Lifespan.com is the website. Please, folks, if you're your so inclined, go donate. It'll really help. We'll change the world.

David, love you too. Thank you. Bye everybody. (upbeat music)