How I Handle My Kids and Phones

is not about hacking the system to find more time or hacking your energy to get more

“done, hustling to be the best or to make the most out of every opportunity is exhausting”

and unsustainable. So here we do things differently on the show we value contentment, compassion, and living in our season. We favor small steps over big systems. Here we are lazy geniuses, being a genius about the things that matter and lazy about the things that don't and I'm so glad you're here. Today is episode 478 how I handle kids and funds.

In a recent newsletter, I shared how our teenage boys finally got cell phones. Since my

oldest is 16.5, there were some obvious questions about why and how we waited so long. The response was so big in fact that we decided to pivot our previous plan for this week's episode and make talking about kids and phones instead. This is such a personal conversation which is why I'm going to share our personal experience. This is not prescriptive nor should it be. But in the age of parenting kids and especially teenagers,

I think we need all the examples we can get. A friend recently asked me for any favorite books on parenting teenagers and while I had a couple to throw away, I said honestly the best

advice I've always gotten has come from other parents in the trenches or a little bit ahead

“of me. Tricky topics are always easier with personal examples. So that's what we're going to”

do today. I'm going to share my own. I'm going to talk about why we waited so long for phones and how that worked. What our structure is around phones now. Now that we have them and we'll end with a few ideas and some solidarity from you guys for some lazy genius listeners about how you all handle kids and phones. So whether your kid has had a phone for years, whether your years away from even thinking about it or somewhere in between, hopefully this episode

offers encouragement to choose wisely according to what matters to you. After that today's a little extra something is in a similar vein. Actually it's how we handle having teenage drivers and our concept of a family car. That is another thing that can be really hard to navigate as a parent and our family has settled on an approach that I think is going to work pretty

well for us. As always, we will celebrate the lazy genius of the week with what I'm calling

my top comment on kids and phones. They can actually be adjusted in many ways for lots of parenting challenges and then we'll close with the many pep talk for it when you feel like you're too far gone. Sometimes we're so deep into a way of life that thinking about any kind of change, it feels almost like a waste of time, even though that change would be beneficial and something that you care about. It's not like a tri-hard or bootstraps kind of pep talk. We've just all been in situations

where we feel like we're just too far gone to do anything about it and I'd love to offer a little encouragement to anyone in that place. Now before we get into the meat of the episode, I actually want to share a very important disclaimer before we start. So today again, I am

“sharing how we the Adachi's approach phones based on what matters to us as a family. It is totally”

okay if you're timeline and your structure and your rules and all of that look different based on what matters to you. In fact, it probably should look different than mine because we're all operating with different parameters and priorities and that's like that's normal and very good, okay? So I just want to give some context to what we're going to be doing today. My boys just got phones at the ages of 16 and a half and 14 and a half. Now that's comparatively pretty late

and I acknowledge that. I also acknowledge that because we chose to wait that long, it might appear as though I disapprove of anyone who gets phones for their kids much earlier. That would be false. We all get to choose according to what matters to us that this episode is my explanation of how that practically works in our family. I personally know how consuming a phone can be. I have felt it on a deeply personal level. You might have to. Unless a person is just like impervious to

technology or has a really sturdy structure in place, a smartphone is often a black hole. I have seen firsthand in my own life how it makes time disappear, how it makes me feel anxious if I get sucked into an endless scroll and how it makes me less connected to my actual life. I have lived that and I don't like living that way. Things like contentment, presence and thoughtful use of time are all huge personal values and unintentional phone usage is often the opposite of those values.

Being on my phone a lot does not make me content or present or help me use my time wisely.

because of what matters to me and to our family. But my values aren't better than anyone else's.

Plus, our circumstances really matter here. We live in the suburbs where we use our car. We do not use public transportation. If my kids are somewhere that is not home, it's either school or somewhere that I drove them to and I like no apparent that's around. But if you live in a metro area where your elementary school kid takes the train to school alone, having a phone early it's like a whole different ball game and that's just one example. There are just so many variables

“here and it's vital for everyone listening to remember that. I withhold judgments and actively”

reject any shame in this episode and how we talk about it. Everyone gets to make the decisions that are best for their family. As long as our decisions are thoughtful and rooted in what matters to us, I think they're great decisions. Now obviously the slippery slope here with phones especially is when we use them personally without thought or we give them to kids without thought or without structure. There's enough data at this point that shows how smartphones can create disconnection and

anxiety and our kids and adults. So we do need to be thoughtful about them and also there's the distinction between phones and social media. A lot of it is social media and the less about phones regardless if we all make thoughtful decisions based on what matters to us. We can all practically land in different places like the actual usage of phones looks different but we don't need to shame or judge people who are doing it differently than us because those decisions were made thoughtfully.

Now of course there are plenty of situations where we feel the pull of something better. The honest truth is that I feel sad when I see a family like out to eat at a restaurant and

“everyone parents included are on their phones. And also I try to remember that like I don't know the”

whole story it's not mine to assess or change but it's tricky isn't it? Like I want something better for that family but my version of better is incomplete because I don't know those people and also it's not it's not my family it's not my choice and while those people might might be unintentional about phones and therefore they're making choices that are not great like it's still not mine to judge. So the only thing that is clear cut today in this episode is that

we all need to approach this with wisdom and compassion both for ourselves and for other people. You can choose what matters to you and make choices about phones accordingly and while other people might choose differently even in ways that are like, agree justly against your own we still want to be kind and move toward each other rather than away. So as I share what we do it is not

“prescriptive and in fact their choices we make that you might not agree with and think that we're”

too lags and that's okay too. This is an episode just draped in kindness both ways so let's hold that in our spirits as I talk and as you listen. All right so that's my episode disclaimer before we get into the practical side of how I handle kids and phones let's take a quick break

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that recap and you don't already head to the lazy genius collective dot com slash listens. This episode is sponsored by L.O. When your day moves fast between getting everyone out of the door meal prepping and trying to find a small moment for yourself the products you use should make things easier not harder. That's where L.O. comes in. L.O. makes thoughtfully designed water bottles, tumblers, and glass food storage containers that fit right into your routine. Their water bottles

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share our timeline and how we decided to do watches and phones when we did. Second, I'll share

our current rules and structures around phones. Third, I'll share ideas from you all about how you have handled kids and phones. First, the timeline. As a reminder, my kids are currently 16, 14, and 10. When the kids were all younger, like elementary school, I did not fill the pressure for them to have phones nor did they. Even though a lot of their peers at school had smartphones, I didn't feel compelled to join. There wasn't a lot of peer pressure to do that either.

But once Sam hit middle school, that got much harder. And middle school, so many kids had a phone, like most of them had a phone. And this was five years ago, I feel like it's even more common now. So Sam would often come home from school saying that he was the only one who didn't have a

“phone. Understandable. He ran cross country in sixth grade and I remember picking him up from”

practice where he was just standing there alone in a sea of kids who were all in their phones. He was definitely a standout. And I felt compassionate for him in that. I also felt sad that now the kids were talking to each other. But I still knew, even though I observed this, I still knew I didn't want to go down that road for a while. I didn't mind him being a standout without a phone, because the phones weren't to me helping him be a social present middle schooler that I wanted him to be.

Now, at that time, he did not really need to be able to communicate much when he wasn't at home. And I definitely didn't want him to have access to the internet and social media and his pocket

for sure. As is often the case with parenting, your first kid gets all the experimentation

because you don't really know how to approach something until you approach it for the first time.

“And you make decisions based on the personality and tendency of that first kid.”

Now, as I've shared before, Sam has ADHD. And while he was not officially diagnosed, as that in middle school, we had strong suspicions that he was. We just knew that having the internet as pocket was not a great idea. So even though he was the loner among his peers, we stayed on course. Because we had reasons to, we had values that mattered and we wanted to care for Sam in a healthy way. Well, after sixth grade, he started doing more activities, hanging out with friends,

needing to let me know when to pick him up. It started getting a little complicated. Having his friends text me or him trying to find a parent with a phone or him having to go to the front office at school to use the phone. Like it wasn't horrible, but it was started to get a little like wonky. So we made the decision to get Sam an Apple watch the summer before seventh grade. And he wore that

“thing until just a couple of months ago, which is currently the summer before his 11th grade year.”

So that watch was with us for a very long time. We did the same for Ben after his sixth grade year and got him a watch. He is less social than Sam, but he still had friends that wanted to text him. So we would rather both of our boys use texting instead of something like Instagram DMs, especially since at the time they weren't allowed to have Instagram anyway. So the watches for middle school were just a really great bridge. They could communicate the, they could communicate

with us and with their friends. But it's like, if you're ever tried to text on a watch, it's not easy to do. And we just were able to create a lot more boundaries around that. And you couldn't really have the internet fully or social media, obviously. So it was a great bridge for us. Now two other things about the timeline. First, we did not stick with our summer after sixth grade watch rule for Annie. She's about to start fifth grade. And she just got Ben's

old watch at the same time the boys got phones. The reason we made that adjustment is because she is

a far more social than the boys ever were. She's always out and about, especially in the

neighborhood. I like the idea of her having a watch so that she can text me from the pool to come get her or ask to stay longer at a friend's house. Or I can just see where she is. Plus our family phone, we used to just have a random cell phone at home because we didn't have a landline. That number ended up going to one of the boys. So there was no longer a landline. There was no longer away from Annie to communicate with us. So it just made sense for her to have a watch.

We adjusted the rule based on the season of life and the kid. Same goes for the adjustment we made with Sam and Ben actually getting their first phone at the same time even when they're two years apart. Now that might look unfair that Ben did not have to wait as long as Sam did and I get that. Believe me, we talked about that with the boys. There are several reasons we chose to get them phones at the same time. So Ben is about to start high school. He's going to be in the same

communicate about practices and all that kind of stuff. Well Sam is a weirdo who memorizes his

“music right away. So the fact that he did not have a phone during practice, his first couple of”

years in high school, it was not a big deal. He knew the music usually after playing at one time. In fact, he knows like everybody's parts. His music brain is boggers. Ben is also a really talented musician, but he does not memorize like Sam does. He needs the music. While there are some work around for him to access paper music, it's just not as practical. Since the assumption is that every high school already has a cell phone. So that's one reason. We got them cell phones at the same

time. Another is because of Ben's personality and his natural discipline. We knew he could handle

the phone and would be amenable to our structures and rules. He's even set some of his own.

He just came out of the womb like a responsible old man with a 401k. I don't understand it. So essentially, he needed a phone sooner than his brother and he would likely be very responsible and managing it. Now we definitely talked about that unfairness with the boys, acknowledging it to Sam, you know, that it didn't feel fair, but honestly he was fine with it and it all worked out great. I do think that's a good principle for any family. Yes, rules and structures are great,

rely on them, use them. But pay attention to how different age dynamics and personalities might benefit from an adjustment of that rule. It's the same concept as pivot over plan, waiting two more years for Annie to get a watch, which would have fit our rule, is like mind blowingly crazy. I have thought multiple times in the last year when she was in 4th grade, how it would be so great as she had one. Rules and principles are meant to guide and

benefit you, not restricts you in a way that is not helpful or healthy. So just be willing to pivot

“if it makes sense. And if there is an unfairness factor, I think acknowledging that is really important.”

Talk with your kids, make sure the kid who feels slight it is heard and seen in that, you know, it's usually the oldest, because like I said, the oldest gets all the experimentation. Okay, so the boys both got watches after their sixth grade year. Now they are 16 and 14 and just got phones and Annie is 10 and has an Apple Watch. All right, now let's move on to our rules and

structures. First, we all have Apple devices and we use the family plan and the structures that are

included in there. So as the parents, we can set time restrictions, content and app restrictions, we can require approval for the downloading of any new apps. So at the start, the boys' phones were very, very restricted and they still are, because they haven't had them very long. That as they learn how to manage them responsibly, those restrictions can ease, you know,

“like needing approval for certain websites and apps is definitely annoying, but I'm okay being annoying.”

Like, I don't, that doesn't bother me at all. So we just have like those basic guard rails that are available to most folks based on what phone you choose. Second, we have a no phones during family time rule. So like dinner or game night or something like that, no phones. Since they have not had their phones for very long and since it's summer with like weird schedules, it might be then a few weeks. We adjust the rule to not just like no phones during dinner, but maybe no phones

at the table at all. If having phones and pockets during dinner is like too tempting, you know, like maybe we'll all end up leaving our phones on the counter when we sit down to eat so that no one has a meeting at access will see. But in general, the expectation is that when we're together is a family doing something, no one is on a phone. Number three, currently the rule is tight with no phones in the bathroom or the bedroom. Yes, I am a terrible mother who does not have her children,

get for children any privacy, that is according to one of my children. But I don't mind if my kids feel that way. Like I want some accountability for when they use the internet and it's so easy to lose track of time when you're on your phone. Like I have done the thing. Like I understand turning on the water for a shower, waiting for the water get hot and like checking my email while the water heats up and then five minutes is gone by. Like I've done that before. So no phones

and bedrooms and bathrooms. The boys don't love this rule. But again, I don't mind that. I don't mind that. Fourth, we have a charging station in the kitchen and none in the bedrooms. Now that makes sense since phones aren't in bedrooms. Anyway, but it's a helpful boundary of where the phone lives when it's not being used. And that will stick around even when perhaps the rule of bedrooms is eased a little bit. Fifth, we use the brick app and it has been the best thing for

called a brick. It is your only cost. It's a one-time cost. It's a magnetic square of plastic that can

stick on your fridge. It's like about the size of almost like a roll of washi tape. It's not very big. And it pairs with the brick app on your phone. The app is free. It has no subscription. But on that app when you open the app, each person can set different modes where certain apps are restricted or brick. So when your phone is brick, under whatever mode you choose, you cannot access those apps at all. You can't, you know, like when you set time limits on apps within like an iPhone

and you can say like ignore for 15 minutes or give me 15 more minutes or something like that.

“There's no, you can't do that with the brick. You just brick. And the only way that you can”

unbreak it is to carry your phone to the refrigerator and hold your phone up to that brick magnet

on the fridge or wherever you end up putting it. Okay, so like for example, I have a work mode on my brick app where mindless things are brick. Like games and just sort of dumb things, it don't really matter. But I don't have Instagram brick during that mode because I use Instagram for work. But then during the regular day when I'm not working, like most of the time, Instagram stays brick without my having to delete it, which is what I used to do and it was fine, but it was a

little bit annoying. So now I can just brick and unbreak my phone. So for the boys, they brick their entire phone. You can brick up to 50 apps at once and since they both have less

than 50 apps, they just brick their phone when they go to bed. We'll have them brick it when they do

homework once school starts and other times too, but it's so easy to be like, hey, go brick your phone. You can even create schedules within the app where the phone automatically bricks itself at a specific time of day and you can choose which days like it doesn't have to be every day. You can be very, very specific with these schedules. But it bricks it without you having to do anything.

“It just starts. It does the same thing that I think our family dinner bell does. Like when I”

ring the bell, the kids know to come, whether it's for dinner or there's a timer tidy or they're going to help put away the groceries or something. When they hear the bell, it's like, I'm not that bad guy. The bell is just a signal. brick is already operating the same way. In fact, the boys like they kind of like it, even Sam, which I was surprised by, they think it's kind of cool, which it is. It's like, okay, I'm going to go brick my phone and it doesn't make me the bad guy.

We just really, really love having the brick. It just keeps making relationships with phones better and better. Another app that we use for boundaries particularly while driving for Sam is life 360. You do have to pay for this one. There are tears involved, but we've really enjoyed it. What it does is it signals you when someone leaves home, how fast they drove. It actually tells

“me when Ben leaves home, even when he goes for a walk or something. Like, I'll be working in the”

office and I'll get a notification. Ben has left home and he's, I know he's gone for a walk, which he often does in the mornings. So it tells you it alerts you when someone leaves home, but it also tells you how fast they drove. If there was any improper use of a phone during that drive, there's even emergency assist. If you want that, it's just given me a lot of peace of mind with Sam having a phone and also a license. So I really, really love life 360. That was number six,

the seventh thing that I really try to continually remind my boys of as it relates to their phone is that they are like, they're not undisciplined or irresponsible or doing something wrong. When they get stuck on a scroll or they need to be reminded to put their phones down. I really try to be like, hey, y'all, it's just doing what it's built to do. That is what the phone is built to do. It's keeping your attention. So I'm reminding you to actively disengage your attention. So this is not a

rule necessarily, but it is a structure that I personally have put in place because I want them to understand that the internet is the source here, that they're not just like individually undisciplined or the bad guy in the situation. Now, obviously, I'm not knocking the internet on the whole. Obviously, my job is this because the internet with all you see internet every day, but you know what I mean. Like, internet, the internet is kind of the bad guy in this. Algorithms and those dopamine hits

are meant to keep us on our phones. And I just want my kids to see that machinery and eventually any two to recognize that machine rather than feel like they are individually just bad at managing

Which leads me to my final rule and structure for our theme, I really try to model good

phone habits. So when a kid comes to talk to me, if I'm on my phone, I put it down. I try to not walk around the house while looking at my phone, even if I'm reading a book. I keep my phone bricked a lot and I show Sam the hours because it tells you how long you've had your phone bricked and he'll be like, you've had your phone bricked for 23 hours. One time he was like, "What are you even doing with your life?" And I laughed and I was like, "Well, I'm enjoying it.

I'm doing great." You know? Like, I don't text and drive. I don't look at my phone at the table. Like, I try and make small choices that model healthy phone habits based on what I hope for for my kids. Now, that might be subconscious only for them, but I'm okay with that.

Plus, I do enjoy my life more when I'm on my phone less. When I have a healthy structure,

“based on what matters to me, I can enjoy my phone as well as my life. And I want my kids to learn”

the same things. So, the rules and structures we currently have around our kids and phones are just the basic guardrails on our Apple devices, no phones during family time, no phones and bedrooms or bathrooms, one family charging station, brick, life 360, reminding kids that the internet is built to suck them in and they are not the bad guy here. And then I try to model a healthy relationship with a phone. That is how we do it. And it does not have to be how you do it. Sam has a friend who's

going into her junior year and she still does not have a phone and might not for a while. And then Annie has a friend in fifth grade who has had a phone for like three years. The spectrum is wide. So, rather than be concerned with the spectrum, just choose what is best for you. Name the values of your family and how those values impact everyone's relationships with their phone or what a phone even makes sense at all. Make choices for yourself based on what

matters to you and do it thoughtfully and kindly. Start with yourself, be kind to others as they are figuring it out for themselves. Remember we're all trying to figure this out. And then even be willing to adjust some of those boundaries and rules one way or the other when personalities or seasons of life change. Okay, now let's run through a couple of comments from you all about things that have worked for your kids and phones. None are endorsements necessarily. It's just

“varying experiences that help people do what matters to them. So a major theme in some of these”

comments was holding off on smartphones for as long as possible. The emphasis here wasn't necessarily like no phones, but rather finding ways to introduce them gradually and intentionally with things like house phones, flip phones, watches like we did things like gab, bark, pinwheel phones, even sharing family devices. So let me share some of those. Amy says with our youngest, we got a gab phone in eighth grade which she could use to text her call friends and shoot videos or pictures. No

internet, therefore no social media either. It was a good choice for us. We used the gab phone through ninth grade. Things became trickier when her new high school started using an app for ticketing for every school dance and sporting events and teams used an app to communicate. So we went full iPhone, but we have a no social media pact and have talked a lot about the mental

“health ramifications, especially for girls of social media. Most of her friends can access it, but”

don't. We do allow an app called Locket that is sort of social media-ish, but she can only friend people we approve, so no scrolling endlessly. Jacqueline says, "I have no intention of getting anyone a phone until high school. However, we did want to be able to have a phone that the kids could use to call or text family members. I also wanted to be able to leave the kids at home briefly with the ability to call me if necessary since we don't have a landline. They are at the age

where I occasionally run a quick errand without them, but I still need for them to be able to call me if necessary. So we got a flip phone, but the cheap phone plan and keep it at the house. It's called the house phone. It only has approved contacts in it, mainly family members and a couple of neighbors, and they can call or text those people. We don't really take it out of the house. It just functions like a landline." Christine says, "We use a pinwheel phone, which allows my daughter

to use a smart phone for photos and texting friends. I have access to all of her activity on the

phone, which I can check. If I want to, and sometimes do, but not always. I can approve certain

apps that might be helpful for her. She has a language learning app and a plant care app, for example. Also, the phone shuts down at a certain time of night and starts up again in the morning. Having a phone with limited ability encourages her to spend at her time doing other things and her case playing music, reading, etc. But she still has the ability to easily connect with

and having a Pandora's box of a phone. In Rachel says, "My biggest tip for putting off phones is

“do it with community. We made a bus stop packed with families in our neighborhood way back in”

second grade that will wait until our kids are driving before we allow them to have phones. For the most part, the patches held up. All of the original families are still on track. We have middle schoolers now and our kids know they have friends that don't have phones. It's just a given that they're not getting phones until at least high school, which I'm grateful for. It was definitely a decide once decision that has stuck. Okay, so another common theme

in some of the listener comments that we got was keeping phones out of bedrooms. I already mentioned that as one of our rules. There was a ton of agreement that protecting sleep matters when it

comes to phones. People repeatedly mention things like essential charging station, keeping phones,

downstairs, setting automatic downtime, and no phones and bedrooms overnight. Here's what KD shared. During school, the phones go into downtime mode at 9pm and they can only text us or use apps we allow, Spotify mainly for music before bed. No fighting or negotiating the time. It's a decide once and a house rule, and it's because sleep is important period. On weekends, the time is later, and if there is a sleepover and I just turn it off, but it's been this way since they got

phones and it's been so helpful. At 16, my one-daughter claims were the only ones doing this,

“but I think, oh well, this is how we do it. Evelyn says, "We have a daily check-in for screen time,”

the first six months when they get a phone. And we don't allow our kids to take their phones to their bedrooms. We choose to give them a regular alarm clock, rather than their phone, and it helps our kids sleep better because they know they don't have access to their friends once they go to bed. It also has motivated them to get up earlier with less grumpyness so that they can check their messages. We try to convey to them that we recognize how easy it is to get

sucked into screen time and ignore real life happening around them. As adults, we're also guilty, and we want to empower our children to be able to see areas where there can be struggles. Denise says, "Don't be afraid to be the mean one who takes their phones away at night." 90% of the time, if I have a kid struggling in class, when I ask them if they were on their

phone until 2 or 3 in the morning, the night before, the answer is yes.

“So another differentiation that I didn't mention really a lot with us is social media.”

So Sam has Instagram, but only in the last few months, even before he got a phone, he primarily uses it to follow other marching bands and musicians, and before he got a phone, he could only access it on his computer, which is much less scrolling. Now that he has a phone, he does have an Instagram app, but we use the same rules with that, and I often remind him when he says things like, "Hey, Sam, time to break your phone or whatever." He's like, "Hey, I need to get through all the

stories." And I'm like, "No, you don't." The stories will never end. They will never end. Like, you can walk away. You know, so he doesn't believe me totally yet. It's like a process. But that is a difference. It's the difference between phones and social media, and maybe those structures are sometimes social media gets like lumped into no phones, but really the biggest concern is no social media. So these are some comments from folks like that who are comfortable

with phones themselves, but way more intentional about delaying social media. So Kristen says, "We have a zero tolerance policy with social media. Not only is it not permitted, they receive a financial bonus if they don't use it by 16." This worked brilliantly for our almost 17-year-old who still does not have social media by choice, and she actually renegotiated terms of her financial incentive. It allows her a great excuse to her friends when she's on Insta,

why, why she's not on Insta or Snap, and she says, "Kash, baby?" Allison says, "No social media. No social media." We did begin to open the set for the high school student approaching his senior year, but only with parental oversight and still limited to the one that was used by the school for club and extracurricular communication. Sarah says, "Our 17-year-old now has no screen time limits, but still only has Instagram as her social media. She is thoughtful about her phone use,

and I'm way less of a micromanager than I used to be." Our 14-year-old won't have internet access until high school, and then only when he starts to ask for it. We keep screen time limits on until 16, and no social media until then either. That's a good example of how a rule is adjusted just a little based on the kid, like when a kid is responsible with how they use a phone or social media, it's easier to give them more freedoms because they manage them better.

It can feel unfair within a family, but it's also tricky when it feels like one kid is being

as so hard, but kind of adjustments can work well within families of different personalities, like it is possible. Okay, here are a few more thoughts. These in particular about just monitoring

phone usage. Sarah says, "We had a big system when my oldest was first getting a phone,

but it was stressful and it made me a micromanager which is no fun for anyone. When the next kid was writing the bus and we felt he needed a phone, we got him one without internet, but our rules were simpler. Put your phone away when you're with people, take care of it, and show it to your parents when they ask. Those simple rules have made our lives so much easier." Christy says, "I adopted the attitude that getting them phones was like getting them a puppy.

You wouldn't get your 12-year-old a puppy and walk away. Good luck, caring for your dog, and I thought phones were the same way." So lots of oversight and reminders and a few rules

“that were enforced even when there was whining. But I think having the mindset of, okay,”

this is going to be like getting a new puppy made it easier to not throw in the towel over phone rules and arguments. Like if you know going in, it's going to be a project that it's easier to stick with it when your goals and ideals run smack into teen temperament. Man, that is a great take, Christy. I love the articulation of that and even using that with kids themselves and being like, "This is like a puppy. You've got to take care of it and you've got to learn how I'm not just

going to hand you a puppy. That's great." Another Evelyn says, "One thing that we have tried to communicate with the children from the beginning is that we are the owners of the phone. We bought it. We paid for the plan. And as a result, we also have the ability to take back our possession if we see fit. The reason I've mentioned this is because it has helped our children to view their phone as a borrowed item from us rather than their possession. We've been careful not to use words like

give or say your phone because we don't want to imply that it is their sole possession or that

we would have to ask permission to take it back. And then finally some thoughts on just solidarity and

community as it relates to phone habits. Rachel says, "Our church has offered a screen sanity course every fall for younger families that are just starting with tech. Families with older kids offer their advice for what has worked and what they would do differently. It's highly attended every year and has started the culture of waiting for phones." Renee says, "Since my kids were some of the last to get phones and their friend groups, they knew what it felt like to try and have a conversation

with someone whose face was in their screen. They were very considerate. They are very considerate

“about their phone use now and honestly we don't have to police the rules much. My kids get”

compliments all the time when we're out in public and an adult a surprise that they make eye contact when speaking. One of my sons was just a scout camp for a week and his tent mate was on his new phone playing games several hours each night, interfering with sleep and enjoying the experience of camp itself. That particular son does not yet have a phone but it was an eye opener for him as to why we have the rules that we do. And Laura says, "Model what you preach. Get off your phone and

charge your own phone outside your bedroom. It matters because they're watching." So this is obviously again such a nuanced and personal topic and I can understand like any tension that you might feel as you listen. Like if your rules are on the more relaxed side it's easy to feel judged. If your rules are on the more restrictive side it's also easy to feel judged. So as you navigate

“this personally and you feel that tension of wanting to do right by your own kids. Remember”

that most parents feel that way too. Most parents are feeling that tension and are afraid of being judged in some way. So be kind and compassionate as you talk about it with friends. You know, watch your tone, watch any like sneaky judgment that might sneak through and be a model. Like it's good to be a model to our kids with how we use our phones but you can also be a model to your community and your people with how you talk about it by expressing compassion for people

as they make their own choices. You don't have to agree with or condone what other people are doing

but you don't have to make it an us versus them thing either. You know, we never know the whole

story. We all have things in our lives that we let slide because we're like just out of energy. That's normal for everyone. So just lead with kindness in these conversations no matter where you fall on that spectrum. And that is how I and a little bit of how you handle kids and phones. All right, for today's a little extra something, I'm going to share how we handle having teenage drivers and our approach with a family car. So about a year ago when Sam started a driver said,

teenagers, like all at once. And I could not imagine, like we're not getting a car or for each of the kids, but I also like can't keep driving them everywhere. As you heard in last week's episode about what is and isn't working for me this summer. Having three drivers and two cars is like not working super great. It's been it's been a bit complicated. So this friend had said that she and her husband

they got a third family car that would always stay the family car. So she has three kids like I

do and that car it never belonged to any of those kids individually. It just remained the family car. And the kids themselves had to work out how to manage that car, especially when more than one of them was able to drive, which was the case for a long time. So I remember asking her that like you know like I said like a year ago, I love that idea kind of held it until we got closer and that is what we're doing. So at the time of this episode, we do not have that family car yet, but we are on

the hunt. We're looking for something that is safe and reliable and that will hopefully last until Annie is done driving. We'd like to buy just the one family car. Now the boys will both have their licenses for a couple of years at the same time and they can manage how they each get to use the car. That's a good life skill for them to like figure that out together. We'll have the kids financially contribute to the family car each month kind of like do's that helps with gas and repairs and

insurance and renewals and all the things. Now if a kid wants their own car, they can work and save to get one and then they will be responsible for all of its financial obligations. That's up to them. Otherwise they can use the family car and they just have to figure out the ins and outs of it with their sibling. Now obviously we have not lived with this idea yet because we're still in the process of getting the actual family car, but this is a tried and true approach

“that I think is going to work super well for our family. My boys will often be at the same places”

all through high school. Since they both go to the same school, they take the same band classes, they're both in marching bands, they're the same rehearsals, they enjoy going to the same youth group. Now when jobs come into play, there will be more juggly involved, but again that's a good practice for them, right? To learn how to manage both their time and the car. And then once Ben graduates high school and leaves home, Annie will start high school and be just

a few months away from having access to the, at this point, well loved family car. So I'm excited about this approach. I'm grateful that we're able to make it happen and very happy to not be driving my kids all over the place anymore. Once we get it, that was a sweet season and also I'm pretty pumped to be entering a new one that includes a third car. And that is today's a little extra something. Now it's time to celebrate Betty. This week's lazy genius of the week. This was one

of the wildest parenting tips I've ever heard related to phones, but it could be literally for

anything. So here's what Betty shared. Before we even have a conversation around rules and

responsibilities and timelines of upgrading his phone, my son is required to write two persuasive essays. One arguing for why he should get an iPhone and the other arguing for why he should not get an iPhone. If he can't see both sides of the argument, he isn't ready to have a conversation and definitely

“isn't ready for a phone. Good golly. That is fantastic and hardcore in the best way.”

Here's the thing though. I just love the idea of developing in our kids the ability to see both sides. Like essay or no essay. That is a valuable skill to cultivate. Betty also mentioned that she has her son talked to adults in his life about their own phone usage to learn from what does and doesn't work for them. Now I don't think Betty or I am saying that every kid should write two essays every time. There's a big decision to be made. But for things with real ramifications like

getting a job or a car or a boyfriend or girlfriend, it's good to acknowledge what could be tough about that thing. The idea of inviting our kids and even ourselves into the thought exercise. Don't necessarily have to write the essay that into the thought exercise of considering both sides of something is so wise and a lifelong skill. So thank you for sharing this, Betty, and congratulations on being the lazy genius of the week. And now for a many pep talk for when you feel like you're too

“far gone. I think certain topics can make us feel like we're so far behind the eight ball that we”

will just never recover. You might hear someone talk about kids in screen time and your kids are on

screens like a lot and you don't know if you'll ever come back from that. You might hear someone

to the degree that others seem to have done and you don't know like where you missed the big group

“decision to invest your money a certain way. You hear a great idea for marking the passing years,”

but your youngest kid is 15 and it seems kind of useless to start now. There are plenty of things that feel like they're too far gone. And even though that thing matters, you wonder if it's worth

beginning because of how behind you feel. So the first thing I'll say, which is often the first thing

I say during a pep talk is that that makes sense. Feeling that way makes sense. We all have some version of that and we'll have more throughout our lifetimes. Plus, it is understandable that

“these specific feeling of being behind or too far gone is really hard. It's because of the culture”

we live in, we have been taught to plan ahead and start at the beginning and know what's coming

and have years of like cumulative memories and fully funded IRAs and we limit our kids to 60 minutes

of screen time like a week or whatever. The problem with all that mentality is that it does not account for seasons and preferences or just like good old grace. So if you are feeling like you're too far gone to engage in something that matters to you, I'm going to say that you're not. The situation

“is not. If we believed that anything or anyone could be too far gone, there would there be no hope.”

And man, we love hope. We love hope. So instead start small. Wherever you are in whatever it is,

start small. Like if you're trying to reel back screen time usage for your kids, reel it back in small ways. Like make a cut off time a little bit earlier. Limit just one app instead of the whole phone. Look for a fun positive substitute for the screen time and loop that in just once a day. When you're too far gone, it's just so easy to either give up or cling to big black trash bag energy and start over. Don't do either of those things. Just start small where you are

and eventually you will be closer to where you'd like to be. It won't be right away, but very few things happen right away anyway. So be patient and kind and start small. And that is a mini pep talk for when you feel too far gone. If this episode was helpful to you or if you've been looking for a way to support the show, please share this episode with someone you know or you can leave a kind review on Apple podcasts. Every mention and share, it makes a difference

and turning more people into lazy geniuses so thank you for being so supportive. This podcast is part of the Odyssey family and the Office Ladies Network. This episode has hosted by me, Kindra Adachi, an executive produced by Kindra Adachi, Jennifer Fisher, and Angela Kinsey. Special thanks to Leah Jarvis for weekly production. If you'd like a podcast recap every other week, be sure to sign up for the latest, latest, lazy-listened email that goes out every other Friday.

You can head to the lazy-genuscolective.com/listened to get it. Thanks y'all for listening and until next time, the agenus about the things that matter and lazy about the things that don't. I'm Kindra, I'll see you next week.