Liberating Yourself with Busy Philipps: The Moth Podcast

I'm busy Phillips, I'm an actress, author, and podcast host.

“I'm obsessed with storytelling in all forms, which is why I am so excited to be here hosting”

the Moth. I recently became very obsessed with the Tony Award-nominated play "Liberation," which weaves together the stories of seven women in the year 1970, searching for their own individual liberation, while debating how to affect real change in the collective. It also asks the question, "As women living now, 56 years in the future, how did we get

back here, fighting for our rights and equality again?" On this episode, we've got three stories that will take us from the middle of the ocean to a nude spa in Santa Fe to a rest-stop in Texas, but all of them are about breaking free, about finding yourself, about liberation. Plus, I'll have a chat with the playwright and director of "Liberation."

“The Pulitzer Prize-winning Best Wall and the Obi-Winning Whitney White.”

Our first story is from Amanda Burl, who told this at a new Bedford Mouse of Chussett's main stage where the theme of the night was lost and found.

So as a child, it was, as though I was always searching for something, whether it was scouring

the woods for quarts, which was the currency of my youth, or rowing this boat from shorter shore on the lake looking for artifacts every summer, I wanted to find a bigger artifact. Or, in first grade, every day I'd get home from school and I'd go run two miles, and I had the first edition of the Timex Watch and I'd time myself, and that went on for six years.

And what it looked like to everyone else was this kid who was never satisfied and what it felt like to me was Nintendo.

“This was the late 80s, and it was like every day, it was just a chance to level up.”

I suppose it was this seeking what's next behavior that led me to take a Navy ROTC scholarship to college, figuring the military might unlock some adventure, and my plan was to be a jet pilot. And I got to train for it here in the air throughout school and my senior year, I failed my final flight physical, my eyesight had changed.

So I couldn't be a jet pilot, and I ended up on a ship. It wasn't as big as an aircraft carrier, but it was a huge 600-foot ship, but I found a way to maybe make it interesting. I saw these rescue swimmers doing their thing, and I asked my command if I could go now, at the time, rescue swimming was not a job for women, and to this day, it is not a job

for officers. But I asked if I could go, and they said no.

So I asked five more times, and I even wrote a memo, and finally, they didn't say, "Go

get 'em girl, it was this big grudged, don't make us look stupid." So 56 of us started rescue swimmer school shortly thereafter, and five weeks later, five grueling weeks, not gonna sell myself short, weeks later, eight of us graduated. So I was one of these Navy rescue swimmers, and a lot of times, I'd spoken to a lot of rescue swimmers who had Henningman done like a rescue yet, but my first one came in short order.

The guy was drowning, and I swam up to him, and gave him the spiel. There's actually a spiel, and you say, "I'm a rescue swimmer, I am here to help you." And so I said it, and I saw his eyes, like, get big and wide, and I saw his panic increased to fault, and I knew what was happening. This guy is fighting for his life.

He thinks he's gonna die, and who's there to help him, but some skinny woman. And his panic, he starts flailing, and, you know, people who were drowning try to climb on top of things, and he's pushing me underwater, and the good news is I'm trained for this. So I'm able to break myself free and get a hold of him and say, "Look, this is protocol. I am allowed to knock you out if I have to to drag you to safety."

We can do this in the easy way, and you can just relax, and he hears me through all of this madness, and he relance, he relaxes, and I'm able to get my arm around him and drag him to safety. And later that day, I was thinking, I'm a rescue swimmer, I was trained at rescue people,

But it was more like, okay, I did the thing, what's next?

“And maybe nothing was gonna be next, because rescue swimmer has spent most of their time”

just doing drills, and one time, about halfway between Hawaii and Australia, we had an admiral embarked with his staff, and they were there for our yearly evaluation to quite literally make sure we are running a tight ship. And the stakes were really high, and everyone's belt buckles are a little like, more shiny and brassy, and it's a perfect opportunity to showcase this rare entity my command has stationed

on board. Me, the woman rescue swimmer. And so we're gonna do this man overboard drill and make it a real spectacle. And so we start the drill and I run out onto the folksal of the ship, that's the very front of the ship.

And the way it is is there are these decks that look down on the folksal, and it's basically

a stage performance, and I know this. And I run out onto the folksal when the drill starts, and I'm wearing this shorty wet suit, and you know, it's not even like zipped up all the way, ponytail, swing it in the wind, and I get up to the very front, the bow, and they help me into this harness, which has a couple of fancy knives, and like a strobe light attached.

And the whole thing is just like really Lara Croft. And the next step is for me to get hooked up to two lines. One lowers me down to the surface of the water 70 feet below, and the other line keeps me tied into the ship.

“And the purpose of it is just in case the worst thing happening happens while I do a rescue.”

Let's say I drown. They have a way to haul my body back for the ship. So I get hooked up to these two lines, and I get lower down to the surface of the water. And at the bottom, I'm able to clip out of the chain that lowered me. But I find that this line that's supposed to have all this slack in it is tight.

And so I think really fast, because I remember don't make us look stupid. I grab the knife, and I look up to my boss, and I don't ask, I tell him, I'm cutting the line, and I cut it. And I've just saved the day, because otherwise I'm like stuck next to the ship. And so the ship keeps going, and I do everything is normal.

At this point, I've done this drill many times before, and I pretend to rescue somebody. Because remember, it's a drill. There's nobody in the water with me. And what the ship does is it goes, and it makes this wide turn, and it just comes back, and picks me up.

Well, typically it would be me with whoever I'm rescuing, but this is a drill. So they're going to turn, and come back, and get me. Except for the ship doesn't turn, it just keeps going, and going. And it disappears over the horizon. And being on a ship is my job, so I know that horizon is three miles away, and I've

been in the water hundreds of times in my life, dozens of times doing this very drill.

But I have never been out of eye shot of either land or a boat or a helicopter or another

human being, and I am just 100 percent alone. I thought, what just happened could be a mistake. It could be a conspiracy.

“They could have forgot about me, or maybe am I imagining this?”

Did I go crazy? And I looked around, and the sky was so incredibly blue, but the water was black. I know, from outer space, the ocean looks like it's blue, but it is black. And there are these thousands of fathoms between me and the bottom of the Marianas' trench, but I can hardly see down to my own fins, like going and treading below me.

And every molecule that touches me is suddenly a shark. I think jumping to the conclusion of sharks is pretty normal, but I go straight biblical, and I start thinking about the enormity of whales. And how Pinocchio ends up just like chilling inside of a whale's belly. And how creamer inside felt he hit the golf ball and ends up in the whale's blowhole.

And then my thoughts go like real dark. I'm little, I could probably fit in a whale's blowhole. How long could I survive in there before blows me out? And how long could I survive here in this water? And how long before my body would decompose?

The rescue swimmer needs a rescue. Where is the ship? What can I do? So I tread a 360, and I scan the entire horizon, and there is nothing and it forces me to be present.

And what I saw, it wasn't little white crashing waves.

“It was these football field-sized rolling waves, and the water was comfortable.”

The sun actually warns that top layer, and the sound around me, it was like this amniotic hum. It was like I was safe in the world's womb. And this feeling rose in my chest. It was like some divine cord was just pulling me through time and space, and this calm that washed over me left me wanting for nothing.

The vastness of the ocean of nature had taken the pressure off. There is no more go-go-go because there was nowhere to go, and it allowed me to let go. It unlocked this feeling that I didn't know I had been looking for. Peace, and there's no leveling up from that. So I floated there in my own personal floating, enjoying my bliss, my newfound freedom.

I see something in the horizon. Oh, it's the ship. I forgot about the ship. I don't know how long it took for it to pick me up because like time wasn't a thing yet, but when the ship got to me, it didn't haul me up the front at the folk so like it

usually would. And I had just been left in the water. There was a very good chance I was going to make a public display of dissatisfaction. So they kind of like, rude, bounce me down the side of the ship, and pull me in a hatch. And I'm sitting there soaking wet on this steel deck, and nobody is making eye contact

with me. I'm like, what the hell just happened? And it had been a mistake. The guy who was supposed to make the turn, clamped up, but my commanding officer could pretend there was no mistake at all because one, I had cut the line.

And two, I had said, I'm okay. And I thought I had been out there for like four to six hours. And it had actually been closer to one, just one, yeah. Everyone was really apologetic about this incident, but I couldn't be mad.

I had just been given this incredible gift.

What I learned that day out there in what we like to call the drink was that thing that I'd been looking for, not even knowing I was looking for. Since I was a little girl, peace, it wasn't something I had to go out and find. It was right here inside me, and it was something I could call upon anytime. Thank you.

That was Amanda Burrell, Amanda is a military veteran, classically trained chef, travel journalist, adventure, and endurance athlete, injury connoisseur, occasional cover model, explorer of inner worlds and meditation instructor, yet when asked what she does, she just says, when.

“When I think about the times in my life when I felt liberated, I immediately think back”

to talking about my own abortion on my late night talk show busy tonight in May of 2019.

That was right when the very first of the extreme abortion bands started being passed in

a few states, legislatures, and I remember feeling like, well, if there's one reason I have this platform in this moment in time, maybe it's actually for this reason. I was terrified, but I knew that it was the right moment on the right way for me to use my own story to help other people, especially women, understand the importance of sharing their own stories, and to see how these bands were the consequence of years of shame and

silence surrounding abortion and women's reproductive health care, and that shame and silence had been perpetrated on us. My talking about it led to thousands of women sharing their own abortion stories online and

“me testifying before Congress in June of 2019, but more than anything, for me, I think”

it really drove home that liberation is not holding a shame that doesn't belong to you.

It's from Jennifer Conhurst, who told this at a story slam in St. Paul. Here's Jennifer, live at the mall.

“So about two years ago, I took a little minification to Santa Fe, New Mexico, and everybody”

that I told that I was going there had one piece of advice, and that was, you've got to go to this place, 10,000 waves, it's this beautiful spot, Japanese spa, and it's lovely and you'll love it.

So after my first day of sight seeing it's a beautiful place, you know, Adobe buildings,

blue skies, I thought I'll go there. So I go back to my room, and I look up on the internet, because I'm like, I don't know what to bring to a spot, because I'm not a spa person, because I'm staying at a house only cost 20 bucks a night, that gives you an idea, and it's like, you know, everything you need is provided towels, you know, robes, slippers, and clothing is optional, and

I'm like, it's an option, it's an option to not work close, it's not an option that I'd considered, and so I considered it, and I considered it all the way there, and while I was checking in, I'm like, I don't know, it's weird, naked, and I decided, you know,

“in the locker room, leave the bathing suit in the locker, and I'll do this, because like,”

why not, I'm never going to see these people again, it's, you know, it's the chance

to try something new, so I, you know, put on my little robes, slippers, and I go up, and it's a little dark pathway lit by Japanese lanterns, it is, you know, to it's quite a very beautiful place, and I get to the area where the hot tub and sauna are, and it's a, you pay like a day right to go there, and it's evening, and it's dark, and I get to the area, and I'm like, why was I worried, I can hardly see my feet, and I sort of,

like, feel my way to the hot tub and slip in, and there's like three, six-year-old guys in the hot tub, and I'm like, I don't care about you, and I don't think you care about me, so it was a no big deal, and I look up in the Milky Way, it's just like stretched out, and I'm clearing in the trees, and I'm like, why would you even look at anything else but that? It's gorgeous, so I sit in the hot tub, I go in the cold plunge, I go in the

sauna, I take a cold shower, and I just, I'm blist out, I just love it, I fall in love with the experience, so much that I want to go back the next day, but I want to go back during the daytime, because I want to spend more time, and I'm going to go to the all-women's area, because I'm naked, and it's daytime, and so I just really kind of want to be around women, so I go through the whole ritual, you know, robes, slippers, and I walk up the

“swinding path to the area, and I go through the gate, and when I walk through, I remember”

thinking, I need to seeer this image into my brain, so that I can tell my straight mill friends about it from Master Routory Materiel, because there are like 12 nude and semi-nude women, and they are like the goddesses of Santa Fe, they are long and life, and tan, and muscular, and they have the kind of body that requires like decades of good genes and millions of dollars, and this is probably a good time for me to talk a little

bit about my body, by contrast, I'm a corn fed Midwestern girl, I'm five feet tall, and I'm 41, and I've had two children, and there has not been a lot of course correction throughout the last decades, so you know, I'm fat, and I'm fat, not like dove, beauty ad fat, I'm fat like rolls and dimples, and you know, things, and these women, I'm sure are like, they think back fat is a myth, but I'm, you know, here I am, so, but I'm not

easily daunting, so I'm like, you know, robe off, I go into the hot tub, and I settle into the experience, and this really beautiful woman comes out, she's fair skinned, red hair, and she walks out, and she's really tentative and really shy, and I look at her, and I recognize something, because I know it in myself, is she hates her body, and I'm looking at her, and I have no idea why, because she is beautiful, and, but I know, I'm like, there's

something she's ashamed of, she hates, and it makes me really sad. So I get up and I go into the sauna, and I lay down on the wood slats, and if you've ever taken a sauna, you know, you kind of release tension by degrees, and you can kind of feel it kind of coming out of your body, and with every breath I just started to think about all of the things that my body had done for me over the years, and I had built

to beautiful children in my body. I had burned two children without drugs, one of them ten point four pounds, thank you very much. Yeah, yeah, that's that, that's my body, and you know, I had, you know, I had eaten all this delicious food with my body, I had walked in foreign countries with my body.

I had had really exceptional sexual experiences with my body, and I got in a lot of pleasure from my body. I had also treated my body not with the most respect, I had really pushed the envelope and drug and alcohol abuse, I smoked cigarettes, I don't exercise, and in return my body

continues to perform with some regularity, and that's pretty amazing to me, and in return

for that kindness, I hate my body, I just low that, and I low that, because the way that

I don't know how to bridge that difference, and so I sit in with every breath, I just try

“to release this feeling, and I get up and I walk out to the deck area, and it's like 40 degrees”

it's December, so I'm hot, and the steam rising off my body, which is cool, and the wind is blowing, and blowing through my pubic hair, which is a thing, really, it happens, and I'm like out there naked in the world, in nature, and I have this thought, it's like, I don't have a body, I am a body, and when I hate my body, I hate all of the things that make me who I am, and I got a Santa Fe, doesn't have time for that, thank you.

That was Jennifer Conhurst, Jennifer is a writer, a resident of St. Paul, Minnesota, a writer, and founder of Kit Ball Collective, a scrappy little marketing agency. She's still like Santa, but usually wears bikini. You know, the story called to mind when I became a mom,

“I have two daughters, they're almost 13 and almost 18 now, if you can believe it, I kind of”

count. We lived in LA when they were younger, and when my older daughter started swim lessons, I noticed a trend with a lot of the other moms, somewhere refusing to wear bikinis, but even worse, some of them were refusing to wear swimsuits at all, and wouldn't get in the pool. And I realized that while my post-baby body was far from where I would have liked it to be, to my little girl, I was perfect. And more than that, I didn't want her to grow up,

ever thinking that her body was something she should hide. So, I made a decision and a very

concerted effort to first off never talk about my body, whatever shape it happened to be in,

or however I felt about it, but more than that, to always get in the pool when my girls wanted to swim with me. After the break, a story about a rescue, plus a conversation with Best Wall and Whitney White, back in a moment. Welcome back. Before I share our final story, I wanted to have a chat with the playwright and director of Liberation Best Wall and Whitney White, respectively, because I know that they have got a lot to say about storytelling and women's voices,

and just how nerve-wracking it can be to get up on stage. Whitney, Best, Hi. Welcome. Hello. All right. Well, I wanted to start off by talking about Jennifer Cohnhurst's story about going to the nude spa and embracing her body. Because I feel like it really directly ties to thematically what we get to see in Liberation, on stage in the flesh. Yes. You know, Liberation has about a 15 or 20 minute

naked scene in the play where you see six women, different ages, all different walks of life naked on stage, how you met their bodies. And so when I heard that story, of course, it really resonated. Just in particular, the difference between being a subject and being an object, you know, because what I was really trying to represent in the play was what it feels like as a woman to be naked and to remain the subject of the story. And I feel like so often when we see

women represented naked, they're being objectified. And I love the line where she says in her story, I don't have a body. I am a body. That resonated with me so deeply that your body is you. So if you hate your body, you hate yourself. And in my play, women are really contending with what they love and what they hate about their bodies and trying to reclaim ownership of their bodies. And also leaning into the idea that your body works. It functions for you. It's not just an

object of desire or an object of beauty. It's a functional thing that breathes and your heart beats

“and it keeps you going. And that that's a really important part of having a body that I think”

as women often gets prioritized below how we look or how we are perceived by others. It's really beautiful. I am, what moved me most about that story was just when she talked about

being there with women who were older than her or more ageed than her. And I remember the first time

I went to like a bath house. And when I went and I was nude, I actually went at the time where there were only women 60 enough there. And she marks that, you know. And realizing that the continuum

first time the actors in liberation disrobed. We have a multi-generational cast. And I'm

myself grew up in a home where we are nude quite often. I'm a nude household. Very often all the way through my grandmother. I can remember the folds of her body. And it gives me pride to remember

“that. And I think it will allow me to walk into my more seasoned years with some pride and dignity.”

So there's something about that in the story and and something that I tried to bring to life in liberation and directing it that really resonates with me. Like we need to honor our our womanhood and that path, you know. There's a really lovely quote in the play a woman speaking on interrupted is a radical act. For both of you who work in the live theater space, what does it mean to you for women to be able to share their stories on stage and also just among one another.

I think the greatest sign of love and respect that anyone can show a woman is giving her space and trust to tell and time to tell her story without editing it, without trying to manipulate it, without trying to change it and letting her tell the story that she has in the way she wants to.

“And so that line it means a lot to me. I think it's it's such a sign of bestest brilliance. But there's”

so many times I've experienced in my own life someone telling me how I should tell my own story, how I should be in the world, how I should walk in the world, how I should dress, how I should look, how I should sound, the way my very voice should sound. And then being a director is very funny because one there's not many of me. Out there and so I'll be in spaces a lot of times where like I'm supposed to be in charge. I'm supposed to have this mandate and then someone

is literally just literally into where I can't even get out a sentence. So playing with that,

especially in some of our first scenes in the play, it was so fulfilling. And fun, you know what I mean

because of course you can take something that's painful and and turn it into something that's hilarious and more people can access it. So yeah that line it I think it's it's uh it's something we all need to hear and best has kind of channeled that in the play so well. How radical is it for a woman to tell her story and to tell it without being interrupted you know. When the character stand up it's funny like each time and that first scene basically in the first scene in the

play you meet each woman and you hear a little bit about their lives. How they came to be there. And each little kind of happening is like a little baby moth story. You know what I mean? Yeah because each woman is like hi I'm so and so and and they start trying to introduce themselves to the group but of course their inner paythos and deeper need opens up and then something that they don't expect comes out of them which is kind of why I love the

moth stories. I feel like they always take me on a journey like that and so does best is writing

inside these characters. I also think just to say sometimes as women we interrupt ourselves right? Like it's not just about other people interrupting us it's about the courage to speak on interrupted. You know I've felt before like oh my speaking too long oh I should stop you know it's a thing that we do as women so the idea of woman speaking uninterrupted to me is also about to you give yourself that permission. My god isn't that the truth. That's deep it's deep it's real.

You know I wanted to just chat a little bit about the link between consciousness raising because that's something that's very much talked about and depicted in the play and the importance of sharing our stories within that and how that and how that is the thing that we need to continue to do in order to continue to raise the consciousness. I mean when you really break down that phrase consciousness raising it's kind of just like a

tectonic huge thing because think about the things you accept to be true and possible for yourself in your life and what if you could look above those assumptions those things you've been taught

“to find a new level of understanding of possibility. That's what that means and that just when”

you start there that that that we all might need to raise our understanding of what's possible. I love that I love that provocation it's such an impossible thing right to change your very vision you know you're very understanding of your own life and what's possible for you and others. I just love it feels like an impossible provocation that we all have to strive for.

is really the project of art right can you can we me and my beautiful collaborator Whitney White

and all of our beautiful collaborators on this piece can we create something that raises your

“consciousness so that when you walk out of that theater you are changed and I think that's also”

what a great story can do. I mean there are stories that and I'm sure we've all had this experience you're a different person at the end of it of hearing it receiving it then you are at the beginning and I think it happens for the person who's telling and it happens for the person who's listening and I think liberation and the mouth share this real commitment to the idea of conversation

telling and receiving and that there's a real act of generosity in both and that that world can

change when we have the courage to speak our truth and when we have the patience to really listen without interrupting and receive what's being offered. Oh my gosh. Yeah and storytelling opens up the possibility to raise someone's conscience and when you listen to a mouth story it's like you fall down a well of existence you get to walk with that storyteller into their life

“and see life in a different way and and I think that's what we're also trying to do”

in the theater you know can you shift your understanding by falling into a well of someone else's life and I think it's so beautiful and it does feel very timely it feels like this is what we need more than ever. That's all Whitney Way thank you so much for being here. Congratulations on the huge success of liberation my favorite play my 13 year old daughter's favorite play and I think such an important piece that I hope lives on for years and years to come.

Thank you so much for having us. Thank you busy. It's such a pleasure to be here. No, I love you guys. Love you busy.

“That was Best Wall and Whitney White. Our final story is from Victoria Win who told it at a”

main stage and told the Oklahoma. Here's Victoria live at the mall. So it's fall of 2022 and I have found myself on this unexpected mission driving halfway across the country with my brother's dog in the back seat. Her show was my brother's huge beautiful golden husky who unfortunately needed to be rehomed and out of everyone I reached out to for hope my friend Milo was the only person who was able to take him in. The only catch was we were in

California. She was in Oklahoma and it was up to me to get us there. At the time I decided to make this trip happen I was going through a pretty confusing period in my life. I was 25 living in my parents garage and I was working this dead end to office job that was eating away at all of my time and to top it all off I had just gone through one of the most painful breakups of my life that left me questioning everything but it wasn't until then that I had this

uncomfortable realization about myself which was that for far too long I had been letting my life just

pass me by. I never really knew what it felt like to be able to trust myself like trust myself

and making the right decisions and taking risks and doing anything new or anything remotely scary but suddenly time just felt short and so when this opportunity came up to not only help my brother but do something completely unlike myself I for the first time in my life felt like I knew what I needed to do and so a few days later despite my friends and my family telling me not to go I was slowly and surely making my way across those state borders and by the time hercial and I made it

to our first stop in Flagstaff I was riding this high off of life and we were about an hour away from the Grand Canyon and so the next morning I woke up at 5 a.m. I put hercial in the car and I drove us through these dark snowy roads into the canyon to catch a glimpse of the sunrise and it was so cold that it even hurt to breathe a little but when the sun came up and the canyon slowly began to fill

how much beauty the rose in this world that I had been missing out on how it was all right within my

“reach just right outside of my comfort zone all along. Two days later hercial and I made it to Oklahoma”

and the mission was a success I came back home really inspired and excited to make some changes in my life I quit my job I packed up my entire life in a car and I said goodbye to friends and family and move to Texas and I was just trying to develop this new found sense of agency over my life but nearly a year later it's August of 2023 and I'm on the road again this time alone and without

hercial I was driving back to Texas after spending a really amazing and healing summer back in my

hometown in California and I was feeling as confused and stuck as ever I kept questioning whether or not I had made the right decision to move away from everything that I had known and loved

“the year before but I continued to drive on and about six hours into that drive my gas was running”

low so I stopped into a nearby station and I grabbed some snacks I brought it to the counter and I asked the cashier if he could put $60 on my pump I didn't really think much of it until I walked outside and it dawned on me that I was not in California anymore I definitely overpaid for this gas but I pumped my tank full and sure enough I had extra to spare and so I looked around to see who I could offer this gas to maybe I could help somebody out that day there was a woman who

was standing outside of her van alone and she sort of caught my eye and so I followed my feet

and I walked up to her and I offered her what was left on my pump and at first she looked at me

like I was crazy and me being an overthinker I immediately felt embarrassed for even asking such a thing but she finally looks down at the ground and she softly goes sure that it would be great and so I said great I'll move my car out of the way and I walked back to my car and I sit down and I watch her walk over to a man that she apparently was with and she says something to him and then gestures over to me and then walks back to her van in our eyes met I gave her a little thumbs up

to signal that I was ready to go and I looked down for a moment to reset my GPS while I'm doing so I noticed she's walking towards me now and so I rolled my window down and before I could even say anything she shoved something through it and goes please take this and quickly walks away I'm confused because in my hand is this folded sticky note and I open it and in this frantic scribbled writing I read the words please help call 911 going towards

I felt my heart froze and just dropped into my stomach right away and the first thought that came to

mind was as she serious right now and before I could even have a second thought I rolled up my window and I called 911 while I was on the phone with a dispatcher the man that she was with came up

“to my window and he knocked on it and he flashed me to finish their ass smile that will never forget”

and he pointed at the pub screen and I freaked out I just nodded my head and I gave him a thumbs up and I was trying to call myself down and tell myself pretend you're on the phone with a friend he doesn't know anything you're okay and I took that as my cue to get out of there I drove off of the lot and there was a truck stop next door and I found this little spot by two semi trucks right head and I had this view of them I gave every detail I could to the dispatcher

and I was trying to take these photos of them but they were so far away my fingers are shaking trying to zoom in and in that moment I knew I didn't really have much time left until they would leave and so I asked the dispatcher if help was coming yet and there was just silence and in that moment they got into their car and they left and I panicked I asked her hello

are they headed and in that moment I had no sense of direction I had no idea where I was

“my first instinct was to tell her it's okay I'll follow them”

which I know probably wasn't the best idea especially because she was like please don't do that but I didn't know what else to do in that moment in some ways that woman trusted me to get her help and so I felt like I needed to trust that I could and so I followed them at a distance a reasonable distance until I was able to tell that they hopped on the I-40 West and I followed them for a few miles until I got word from state troopers that help was on the way and to turn around

now and I was like heard say less I'm turning around now and I'm driving down the opposite highway and I see these flashing lights zooming past me and I take the deepest breath I've taken all day and I look in the mirror and I'm watching these lights just fade off into the distance

“and I catch a glimpse of myself and I envisioned the me a year ago driving on the same road”

with her shown the back seat never imagining where this road could have taken me

I continued my way to noon Mexico my next pit stop feeling like this was entirely a dream until I got a call around midnight from the police department in Arizona they asked me what I had done with the sticky note and I told them I still had it I sent over all the pictures that I took and they had me drop it off at the local police department the next day I dropped it off and I tried to ask questions but of course they couldn't really tell me anything

and so I let it go and I continued my way home after a few days had passed I still couldn't get that woman off of my mind

“I wanted to know who she was I wanted to know what happened to her if she was okay”

and that was when I had the bright idea why don't I look it up online maybe I could find something

and so I searched up crimes in that county and to my surprise the first link that popped up was

this news article and it had a thumbnail photo of the sticky note she had given me I clicked the link and I skimmed through it and I learned that that woman was actually kidnapped the night before and that evening she was able to save herself by passing a note to a gas station customer she was fine she was with her family now and she was safe and the man that she was with was arrested he was booked on multiple charges including for having weapons in his car

and when I read that I thought chills ran down my spine because I thought about how badly that could have gone if you had known I was trying to help her and I also thought about how right the dispatcher was and tell me not to follow them but most importantly I was relieved that somehow it all worked out anyway and she was okay that I was okay and since then I haven't been able to get off my mind how misguided I've been my entire life

not realizing how divinely orchestrated things seem to be how one small action could have this ripple effect in distant ways we may not understand until we're just meant to and that even when life feels uncertain or confusing or terrifying maybe I can just stress that I'm exactly where I'm meant to be thank you that was before you went an avid lover of open roads and of the occasional unexpected detour

Victoria admittedly still feels lost sometimes ultimately she is content with where she is

in Denton, Texas with her bunny and two cats who always remind her that with them she's exactly

where she needs to be that brings us to the end of our episode thank you so much for joining us from all of us here at the moth we hope that you're able to speak with your own voice and here the stories of the people that came before you and we hope that you find your own liberation in that busy philips is an actress author and podcast host known for her work in Freaks and Geeks Dawson's Creek, Cougar Town, girls five ever and the upcoming Cupertino. Bass wool is the

Pulitzer Prize winning playwright of liberation grant horizons and small mouth sounds. Whitney White

The Queen's Gambit, Amanda Burl and Victoria wind stories were directed by Michelle Jalowski.

“This episode of the moth podcast was produced by Sarah Austin Geness, Sarah Jane Johnson and me,”

Mark Salinger. The rest of the moth's leadership team includes Gina Duncan, Christina Norman,

Marina Cluchay, Jennifer Hicksson, Jordan Cardinalae, Caledonia Cairns, Kate Tellers, Susanne Rust,

“and Patricia Urania. The moth podcast is presented by Odyssey, special thanks to their executive”

producer Leah Riesdennis. All moth stories are true as remembered by their storytellers.

For more about our podcast information on pitching your own story and everything else, go to our website, the moth.org.