Start Telling Your Money What To Do

Normal is broken common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life.

“From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Wins Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show.”

Thank you for joining us, America. Jade Washaw Ramsey, personality number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Open phones here at Triple 8-825-5225, Christy is in Philadelphia. Hi, Christy. How are you?

Hi. I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

I was just calling to Steve. If you could help me figure out how to live a life and not be burdened by so much financial issues. Well, we can certainly try. Okay. Let's go on on.

So I'm single, so I make about 50,000 a year and I just am always in the negative every

month and I can't really enjoy life, I just work and get back in the negative. So usually when people experience that problem, there's one or two things or both at play. So either you're income, the money that you're bringing in is not enough or there is something in your expenses that needs to lower or a combination of both.

“They're just shared disorganization, which we have no idea where the money goes and so it”

just leaves. That's a good point. Do you have a budget? I don't and I have no idea what's coming and going. Okay.

So then that's what I like. So what we're going to set you up with is every dollar, every dollar is going to be the tool that's going to give you organization. It's the best budget app that's out there. And so when you open up every dollar, it's going to ask you some questions about yourself,

it's going to ask you about your goals. Once you get into the actual budget, you'll have a place where you can list your income and you'll have a place where you can list all of your expenses. And the goal is to list out everything that you could possibly spend money on until you hit zero.

That's called a zero-based budget. You want to spend every single dollar of the money that you're bringing in on purpose. Now, when I say spend the money, I mean that's everything from rent, groceries. If you have car payments, if you have debt. And then if there's margin, you also need to assign that money a task, whether it's paying

“off the smallest debt, or maybe you're behind on something, that's how that's going to”

work. Does that make sense? Yeah. So John Maxwell said it this way. He said that a budget is people telling their money what to do instead of wondering where

it went. Okay. So on paper, on purpose, in this case, on app, on purpose, you lay out what you want your months to look like. And then you'd be a grown-up and live what you laid out, no whining.

It's your plan. You can put whatever you want to on it. Okay. But you obviously won't plan to be in the red. Right.

Okay. Now, do you have a bunch of debt? I have about 10,000. So it's not a lot.

Well, to be honest with you, 4,000 of it is you probably never heard of this, but it's

called a firm. So it's like a buying now pay later plan. Oh, I've definitely heard of it. So you've been impulsing your butt off. Pretty much.

Yeah. I have. Yeah. I have four. This is like you put a t-shirt on three payments.

Pretty much. What's the other $6,000? It's like a medical is 2000 and I have no card debt. Okay. And what is the medical?

Have you been ill? No, it's actually dental. Okay. Do you know, are you 10,000 dental? No, 2000.

Oh. Where's the other four? I just, hmm, like, just spending credit cards? Just credit cards. Yeah.

Okay. You got to cut the credit cards, baby. And I tend to, like, put a lot of things for her on it, so like the $4,000. And I know who's this cringey, but I made her like a play room. And I just put everything on the affirms, like I put everything in there, just so

I could. How old's the baby? It's a baby in arms? No. No.

She's killed. Is she in daycare? Or what's the plan there? No. I don't have any child care expense, as far as that.

Good. Okay. So step one was the budget, step two also happens today. The budget happens today, step two also happens today, which is you've got to cut up these credit cards.

You can't, and please remember this, you cannot solve a problem while simultaneously creating it. Credit cards are your problem. Why now pay later, basically spending money that you don't have is your problem, so you cannot

keep that source around in your life or you'll never be free.

You've got to cut up those credit cards that has to happen tonight. Will you do it? Yes. Okay.

“That's thing number two, thing number three is are you investing money out of your paycheck?”

I have a 401k and I do invest 8% of my pay. Okay. That's just 3%, so it's really little though. It's really little that I have in there. I only have 6,300.

We don't want you to catch it out. We don't want you to stop adding to it for a short period of time until you clear these debts. Okay. There's no reason to put money in investments while you're sitting on 10k in debt.

And the reason why David is saying it, but even for the listening audience, your biggest wealth building tool is your income. The biggest tool that's going to help you get out of debt is your income. As long as you're putting your income in lots of different places, it's going to take you longer to do the thing that you ultimately want to do, which is get out of debt and build

wealth. You've got to have focus intensity with that income. So just temporarily pausing your retirement is going to give you 8% of your paycheck back into your hands that you can use to quickly pay out the $10,000 of debt. And also, then to turn around and save up 36 months of expenses and before you know it,

you'll be right back to investing, but at this point you'll be investing 15% not just 8% and you'll have the money to do that because you'll have no payments.

So here's the thing, Christy.

It sounds like that you know, you go to your old child and the last two years of your life have had some stress to them. And during that time, you pay attention to dealing with the life situation and not the money situation and so the money situation just kind of ran on autopilot and it really wasn't good at driving by itself.

So it needs you to now start driving it.

“And now because if you want to win at anything, you just start paying attention to it.”

And you're going to win at this because you called and said, "I'm ready to pay attention to it. Teach me how." And so you're actually going to go do this and I have a prediction that you probably will never borrow money on a credit card again and you probably will never use a firm

and get screwed by those people again. By the way, that's what they're doing. They're screwing you. So don't, don't, don't, don't set yourself up to be the victim. These villains are out there, they're real.

And these companies are not your friend. They're their own friend. They're not looking out for Christy. I can affirm that. They are looking out for a firm.

That's it. One person profiting in this transaction is as a win-lose transaction, a firm wins, Christy loses, quit letting them do it, get pissed off about the villain in this story, it's real. Hey, George Campbell here, a few years ago someone stole my identity. And let me tell you, that is not a quick fix.

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You're the man I told you.

Good to be with you. What's up?

“So currently, I'm just in a little bit, I feel like in a dead end situation, and I don't really”

know what to do to get out of it. I'm currently about 6500 in debt with personal and credit cards. I have no savings at all, and I have $1200-$50 a month car note that I'm kind of stuck with at the moment. Why are you stuck with it?

You're a lease that I signed about 10 months ago for three years, and I wanted to get out of it. I wanted to do a ship, but just the fees to get out of it are just insane, so I decided to keep the car for the moment. Who's the dealer?

Who gave you the fees? The dealer? Yeah. Yeah.

Who just signed a lease with?

What company? It's a business. Correct. It's who? It's a business.

It's a Toyota, but they did it with business credit union. Okay. And so you signed a lease, you got to lease through your credit union. Well, they're Toyota financial, they're looking up with business. Oh, Toyota Financial, set this up.

That's who screwed you. Okay. What's the earlier termination fee do you know what it is? It was like having something, like seven grand, something, because I also drove a lot with the car to you, so I went, I didn't go over the limit of miles, but for how long

I had the car, I just drove it more than, that was supposed to be.

Okay. That's not how it works. So someone, they're trying, they're continuing to screw you. All right.

“So you need to call Toyota Credit and ask them what the early buyout on the lease is.”

What can I pay you off today for? It's like the early pay off on a debt. It does not include the interest through the entire 36 months. Okay. And there should be no fees on that other than just what is it take, what is the check

I need to write today. Okay. What car is this, Toyota? It's the 20, 25, the DR Corolla. Okay.

So look that car up and figure out what it's worth, and then get the early buyout price. Have you looked up what it's worth, by the way? It's worth about 38,000. Okay. So you can get about 38,000 if you sold it.

Let's pretend that when you get the early buyout on the lease, 1250 a month or 36 months, it's 700 a month, the mine insurance, it makes it 1250, so it's insane. Okay. That's different information, huh? Your insurance is a different thing.

Okay. It's not your car payment. Your insurance is not in your car payment. You said you had a 12,000 and it did all the car payment. You do not.

You have a 7 or a 5,000 car payment. Okay. Now that makes the numbers better, not makes them worse. It makes me understand the numbers. I didn't understand them at 1250.

I couldn't figure out what Toyota had done to you. All right. So anyway, you find out what the early, the cars worth 38,000. You find out what the early buyout is. If I write you a check in full today, okay, then let's pretend that's $34,000.

You can simply go to the credit union and get a car loan for $34,000 and pay off the lease, then you would owe $34,000. You're following me? Yeah. Now, or it's $42,000.

So it's more than the buyout, the early buyout on the lease. But has nothing to do with the mileage. This is simply the financial part of the transaction of what can I pay my loan off for early. That's what this is.

Okay. And you compare that to the car. Now, if it takes more than 38,000 to buy it out, let's call it 40,000, then you've got to arrange with your credit union to borrow $2,000 and sell the car to someone for 38,000. And you sell it and you buy out the lease early, which is paying off your loan early.

“And that's how you get out of a lease early.”

And it sounds like you desperately need to do that. Okay, how old are you? I'm 25. Okay. Yeah.

Okay, so the number one mistake that 25 year olds make is an expensive car with a big

So you're like a normal 25 year old, but you have discovered that sucks and you don't

want to be that anymore. Yeah, that's right. Okay. Do anything that almost every 25 year old in America hadn't done. But the trick is, you've really got to concentrate and not just listen, if somebody screws

you, like you went on that Toyota lot and Toyota financial screws you, then don't go ask them how to fix it. Because they're not, that's like the wolf in the henhouse, dude. You don't even know what that means. Okay, but that's like, you know, it's like asking an alligator if he's hungry.

You know what I mean? It's serious, right? Right. Yes, come on in. I will eat you.

Yes. I will help you. I will screw you again. It says Toyota financial. Right.

Well, good thing he called us because now I feel like he's got the next moves to get out of this. It just took a second to get there. Yeah.

I would expend an amazing amount of energy to get out of this car.

Yes. And not just accept laying down that this is your fate for the next 36 months. And part of that fate is after this car sold, now he's in the real business of driving a beater driving something that's, you know, three or four thousand, really the ugliest car in the oldest car that you can find that still runs is what you're going to be driving

for a while until you need a car that has to have a name. It's so bad you have to name it. Birth. Old blue. Bessie.

Whatever it is, if it doesn't have a name, it's too good a car.

“You need a car that's so nasty that you have to name it, and then you walk out and you”

kick it in the door and say, "All right, Bessie, we're going, start up, Bessie. Here we go. You've got to have the blue goose. You've got to have whatever it is." Right?

And that's for a short period of time. But if you will drive like no one else, you can bank $1,250 a month. In 10 months, that's $12,500. That's going to feel good. And then you can get rid of all Bessie.

Right, because your insurance is going to go down too. Yeah, because you don't even get insurance for Bessie. Poor Bessie. She's not even worth health in your life. No, she's not even worth replacement cars.

We're just going to put a bullet in her if she pulls over to the side. That's it. Yeah. That's it. I mean, this is the way you have to think.

And I did that. I drove a piece of crap when we were broke and getting out. And then I got a little better piece of crap, and it was so much better that I didn't think it was a piece of crap, although it was a piece of crap, too.

“Yeah, I mean, that's what you do for a little while so that you never have to do it again.”

It's not a way of life, but it's how you get out of these messes that we all find ourselves in when you wander into the finance office, the Toyota credit. We've all done it. We've all done it. I remember when I met Sam, he had a Jeep Grand Cherokee, and he had finally made the final

payment to pay it off. But they're not a good car. It's not a good car, but he paid it off, breaks.

And I'd never known anybody who I'd never seen anybody who didn't have a car.

And don't you know, he went right down there to the Hummer dealership and bought an H3. Because we couldn't stand not having a car payment. Well, it was the thought was, once your car hits 100,000 miles, it's going to start breaking down. It's going to start messing it, you know?

Not cheap Cherokee. Once it hits 10,000 miles before breaking down. Yeah. And so we've all done stupid things, but the point is, I remember the feeling of then selling that H3, you're used to riding pretty nice.

You're your Miami vibe man. I don't remember. Miami riding around in the Hummer. And then had to sell that and you get used to it. My point in telling that story is it feels nice to drive a new car.

“It is a hit to the pride when you have to start driving something older and sell your”

things. But you do get used to it. Human beings are very flexible. At the time, it is a hit to the pride. Hit it on, it's a badge of honor.

It is. Yes. I'm a grown up and I did what it takes to be a grown up. And I don't care what you people think about it. Amen.

High correlation between people who don't give a crap what other people think and those that build wealth. If you're worried about what other people think, you're going to be poor most of your life. You know, when I became a dad, something flipped.

Suddenly, it wasn't just about me and my wife anymore. It was what happens to my family if I'm not here tomorrow. And things like that just hit different when you become a parent. But I'll be honest, making a will feels heavy and complicated and it's not exactly what I want to be doing with my time off.

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covered even when you're not there. So get your will done today at MamaBeerLegalForms.com and use the promo code Ramsey to save 20% off when you check out. Again, that's MamaBeerLegalForms.com promo code Ramsey. Dustin is in Chicago, Hi Dustin, how are you?

I'm doing good, I'll wear you. Better than I deserve, what's up? So I am recently married and I have a baby coming in August. And about a year ago, I was a single guy living by myself, not really having to care in the world and one day changed my life and God blessed me with a beautiful life and a

2B daughter and I am on the wrong side of $37,500 in total debt and I want to dig myself out and build a future for my family and I know you're the guy and the crew to talk to. Good for you. Congratulations. Congrats.

Thank you. Sounds like a great life you got laid out. We just got to get rid of the mess on the 37,000. So what is the 37,000 owed to? So I owe 26,000 $26 on my pickup truck and I owe $11,500 in credit card debt and I rent

from my father, rents cheap, but the bill is added up because basically now that she's

cut down on work, my wife, it's all about her and the baby now and I've got to make sure that I take care of them and money is super tight right now. What are you paying for rent? So rent is actually $750 a month. What do you make?

I make, well, gross is 63,5, my take home after taxes and insurance because she's on my insurance. It's about $3,015 and 50 cents a month.

“And there's no investing coming out of that, right?”

No, just well, my 401k that I pay a little into and then my company of math is very little. That's exactly what I mean when I say investing, how much what percentage is coming out of your money? I believe it's like 3% or something.

And you have a pickup, you can't afford, right?

Yeah, yeah, when I was single, it was right there on the cost of what I could, but now that you know, I got a man up and it would have got to do, I know this is coming, so yeah, that's definitely on the table. Okay. So when are you selling it?

Apparently, as soon as I can. Okay, apparently. 'Cause all of a sudden your life gets good, you got $11,000 in debt then, get your car for a little while. For just for a little while, you don't feel for your whole life and then you lean in and

you stop your 401k to what little is going in there and you clean up everything. Did you get a tax refund last year? I did, but it was very small. It was about $400. Okay.

So you're not overpaying on your taxes, we don't think, but you might be with the baby on the way. I, yes, that's true. Yeah, so you may get a bigger refund, we'll have to wait and see, I don't want to monkey you with that today.

But I will pause the 401k today. I would pause it today on cell the pickup today. And just for 30, that is just a pause, it's not stopping forever, it's pausing until you clear out the truck, you clear out the 11,000 of debt. And I'd like, I mean, following the baby steps, you do need to save three to six months

of expenses, how good would it feel to know that you had your wife coming home, the baby, and six months of a cushion, just in case anything like that. No debt, and $20,000 in the bank.

“It would be God's sake, it would be a God's sake, right?”

Yeah. It would be God's sake, and he sent Dustin to do it. That's, I couldn't have said it better myself. So cleaner up, dude, that's the thing. So we're going to send you every dollar budgeting app, premium version that we're going

to pay for and give it to you as a baby gift. So you and your wife sit down tonight and you look at that app and you lay out exactly where every dollar is going, and you say, all right, the 401k stopping, the pickup is leaving, and now we're going to attack the $11,000 in credit card debt, and beans and rice, rice and beans, and she needs to work as much as she can without putting herself for the child

and danger, because we need money.

really is you and your wife joining arms together and doing this together.

“So rather than you getting off the phone and you know, putting on your cape and doing this,”

you're going to have to have a conversation with her and make sure that she's on the same page and agrees with this strategy and agrees with the intensity and agrees that this is what needs to happen next. That's a big part of this. Paula is in Dallas.

Hey, Paula. What's up? Hi. Yes. Thank you for taking my call.

Sure.

I basically have a predicament, I guess.

We are new to the bankruptcy philosophy and all that and we now coming down to the numbers. We have bought manufactured home back in 2022, and it's we still owe about $98,000 on that, and just rate is 8.95, so we feel like we definitely shouldn't have done that decision, but we're in it now, and we just started making 80,000 this year, and so but we still feel like one, this is not our forever home, too.

We feel like we could definitely free up some money in the housing area, because basically our mortgage is 1,070 a month, but we need a place to put the house in, and we didn't have that so we have, we put the house in a community where they charge about 9.50 a month, so it's about $2,000 that we have. What's the worth?

I'm not sure, but that's the thing. I feel like if we were to sell, I didn't know that they appreciate, I believe, so I don't think that if we were to sell, we would get it. We would break even if that makes sense.

It doesn't make you, you need to get rid of it every day, you own it, it's going down

and value.

“It's exactly, and I think that's what, like, we feel stuck because we feel like, you're”

going to be more stuck the longer you wait. Yeah. So the point of that is, there's not a good, the point of that is, this is going to feel bad. It's not going to feel good.

You're going to feel the weight of the mistake when you look at the appraisal and see what it's actually worth, but Dave is exactly right, waiting is not going to solve the problem. Waiting is going to make it more painful. Yeah. We agree, which is why we called, we thankfully had spirit of parents who guided us through

the process of just, you know, creating a safe place for us for talking about budgeting and all that, because we did not do that at all the past couple years. And with my husband's job, they actually provide every dollar, premium app or free foreign police. So what kind of margin do you have when you open up every dollar, what kind of margin do you

see? I mean, well, it's, it's a few dollar-based budget, right, so we assigned everything to it. Right. So after you've paid the, the essentials and you've got money that you can kind

of decide, here's what we're going to do with the extra, what are, how much is the

extra and what are you currently doing with it? Because I'm trying to find some money to help offset the possible stuff. Yeah. We have, thankfully, we don't have any debt on cars, we don't have any debt. We bid the whole paying off.

Are those? Well, we're a baby step 3A. Good. margin-wise. I mean, it's just like 100, maybe.

Okay. And what do you have saved? At 1,400. Okay. And what is why we feel like the housing is such a big part of our check that is, we can't

put towards seeding or putting it towards if we sell it, we can put the rest of it. Is that mixed in? Yeah. You're probably going to be in the hole and you're probably going to have a loan for the amount that you're in the hole and you're probably temporarily moving into a rental.

So that you stop the bleeding. Okay. But every year you own this, you're losing $10,000 or more. Yeah. Yeah.

I agree. So the conversation really does need to start today. Yeah. How are we getting rid of this house and start talking to real estate agents, start talking to people in the Mobile Home Manufactured World who's going to come pick this up, who's

“going to buy it, what are we going to sell it for, how are we going to get rid of it?”

What's the process? Look like in Texas. And then you also get rid of the $9,150 lot around. Yes. And by the way, if there's more questions, go, we have a really cool tool.

It's called Ask Ramsay. If you have more questions, which I know you do because there's a lot of nuance to this go on there and keep digging deeper, what I don't want you to do is stop because of a lack of information. I want you to keep digging in on your situation and it's going to point you to all the

resources that you need because we can only, you know, we can only do so much in this

Ladies and gentlemen, Mobile Homes are not a bargain.

They go down and value. It's not a class thing. It's not a I'm a snob thing. It's a math thing. It's a car you sleep in, don't buy one.

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Good, how are you? Better than I deserve, what's up? So my question is, how do we live confidently in the stage that we are financially and know what that looks like? We're a married in 25, we have a little boy, we live just off my husband's income, I say,

home with him and we're on the leadership four and five, well kind of sitting on a down 15% of a down payment for a house and we kind of see people are age drowning in debt and kind of feel good about ourselves when we see them.

But then we have everyone else basically judging our financial decisions because we

“don't own a house and they make us kind of feel like who?”

Like who? Or because we don't, people in all of us parents, people who own houses and we don't. Like your mother. No, not really, kind of both sets of parents, no particular parents and then we kind of feel, when we have margin in our budget and have some comfortable margins, you know,

safe to go on vacation and all that thing, like my husband needs a new phone and will feel bad to spend because we have our mindset that we're poor and not really sure, maybe where we are in the baby steps because we don't own a house. So I hear two things going on. I hear you just meeting some clarification on where you are in the baby steps, but then

I hear a lot of comparison, whether it be positive or negative, just a lot of comparison to other people, whether it be, we're doing better than these people or these people, we need to impress them, we need to care about what they think in some way. So those are the two things I hear. We can help you to find what baby step you're on, but the comparison part is something

“that you're going to have to think through, because the only reason that you have to compare”

are one of two reasons that I can clearly think of, one is positive and one is negative. One is you can look at other people and draw inspiration, right? You can look at them and go, oh, okay, that's pretty good. And then the other thing, if you're looking at them, it's because of competition, and that tends to be negative, and so I don't think it's competition for us in the, like,

so let me stop you saying, okay, when you say, we feel judged, okay, that's your feeling, they either are judging or they aren't judging, but you can choose to feel judged or you can choose to not feel judged, that's just a choice, you're just going, you know, I, you know, there's lots of people that judge everything we do here on the air, right? And, and the number of times, the number of times I care is precisely zero, you know,

I just don't care, because I'm not really taking a poll from people that don't have a vote, in my life. And so I'm, I have a set of values and a set of practices,

we want to go, and if someone doesn't like that, well, I guess they're just going to have to have that they're in a little problem party over there, because I'm not really taking, you don't get a vote. Now, if you're not confident in your values and in the habits and the patterns that you're engaging in, if you're not confident it's going to get you to where you want to go,

“then that's a different thing, that's between you and the value or the idea, right?”

And so, but if you're following, for instance, the baby steps in detail from the book that I want to make over, if you're doing that in detail, well, you're following what, you know,

somewhere around 10 or 15 million people have done, and so if your broke friends don't like it,

well, good, that's like fat people making fun of your diet. True, true. I'm going to send you a copy of my book, what no one tells you about money, because I talk a lot about this very thing in the book, and I think it's going to help you. It'll also help you, by the way, identify exactly which baby step you're on. Yeah, exactly. So, I think it's pretty simple, you defined it, you're on baby steps 3B, you're out of that, you have an emergency fund, you're saving for your house,

and if you don't put money in retirement for a little while, up to a maximum of three years, it's what we teach, and you want to throw 100% of your extra money towards the

house down payment. That's fine. If you want to throw some of your extra money and still do some

retirement, people do that. Both of those we call baby step 3B, but this is the point at which you do say for a house, and it does take normal people a little while to save for a house. Most people don't just go, oh, all of a sudden, I just bought a house, it's not like you're, you know, running down and picking up a pack of gum. This is a house. Yeah, so it takes a minute. Yeah, I just, I go back to the comparison thing. The point of comparison is to either learn

best practices to draw inspiration. It's not to make yourself feel good or bad. That's not the

“purpose of it. I think that that's a very thin line that you have to walk. If you're looking at”

other people, and that's making you feel good or bad about yourself, I think you've crossed the wrong territory. The point of that is to look and say, what can I learn from that? What can I be inspired from from that? Is there a best practice from that? Yeah, exactly. But if there's a, if someone is judging me and I'm unsure, then that goes a lot further than someone who's judging me, and I'm sure. Absolutely, because then I don't care. Yeah, then I'm like, you know, a beautiful

thing, you know, they're right to be wrong. It's called freedom, you know, and so I'm going to keep going, and good luck with that. Good luck with your wrong thinking there, and I just keep moving on. I'm not really taking a poll, really not. And well, if you don't care what other people think, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. A love other people, but I don't care what they think. There's a difference. I'm not taking a poll. And so, and sometimes losers are in your family. You know, sometimes

Debbie Downer is your cousin. Absolutely, you know, everybody's got crazy in their family, and if you don't think so, then it's you. Everybody's got crazy in their family. And so, you know, that's just part of it, and you just go, well, that's crazy, crazy and so on, so, right? Any crazy uncle, so-and-so. You don't have to. And, you know, they're sweet, but they're crazy in a bean. You know, it's just like, it's all right. Then you don't get a vote, crazy, so-and-so, and loser, so-and-so.

You know, look at your life. Who would want to be, who would aspire to be that? No, thank you. You don't get a vote. No, thank you. I'm not living like that. Uh-huh. And so this is best practices.

“You know, if you want to emulate or copy a series of habits, character traits, and so on,”

then find someone that's winning. That's right. Okay, so for instance, we had a pastor come into a devotional for us a while back, 87 years old. And he walks in the room, you can see peace. The peace of the Holy Spirit on his face. And towards the end of the devotional, he said, so, what I'm going to do is, um, I'm just going to give you the book of Hebrews. And for 17 minutes, I clocked it, and I sat and watched him word for word in my Bible. He did the book of Hebrews,

just recited it from memory. Oh my goodness. And so, you know, I could aspire to be that guy.

That's somebody that is inspiring. That's an inspiring guy. That's an amazing person to be when

you're 87. I want to be him when I grow up. You know, and I'm thinking, but, you know, verses, so and so, who's got all this, their life looks like a junkie, because of their decisions and the processes and the values that they have, and yet they have an opinion. You know, that you

funny your financial plan, you are right on track. That's a good point. That's it. And so,

“you know, if you're, you know, just look, if someone is, if there, if there were 10 million dollars,”

we might send a listen a minute. Maybe. But the person worth 10 million dollars is usually not

going to be the one inserting themselves in the conversation. Judging anybody, they're usually the cheerleader. Yeah. Yes. I'm so proud of you. You know, I love, you know, Jefferson Fisher. Yeah. I love the way he approaches those conversations when people kind of say, judgmental or condescending remarks, and you can just throw it right at him and say, "Did you mean for that to sound in judgmental? Did you mean for that to sound condescending?"

Were you trying to be hurtful? Yeah. Were you trying to be, "I love it. I've tried it and let

me just tell you it worked." It zips it right up. It sure does. Shut it down. I just wish I could be as calm

and nice as Jefferson. Yeah. Because he smiles when he does it. He smiles. He's so peaceful and calm. I just did his podcast on the day. We've got to spend some hours together. I just love the guy. Yeah. And anybody's just, he's just ridiculously nice. It's, it's shameful. How nice he is. It's inspiring. It's inspiring. , it's inspiring. Hey, you guys. Did you know that there are thousands of data brokers whose entire business is collecting and selling personal information,

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Welcome back to the Ramsy Show in the Fair Wins Credit Union studio. Michelle is in New York,

“Kyle Michelle, how are you? Hi Dave. Good. How are you?”

Better than I deserve. What's up? Okay, so I have a question regarding my mother and her credit card yet and who is liable for her non-payments of credit cards. Only her unless you're a co-signer. No, no, but she's accumulated 45,000 over five different credit cards and they only found this out after my father passed away in July. I'm going through stock. So she doesn't have any income besides the social security. She's already

been sent three letters from three debt collectors and one actually went to a summit. Has she, you know, is now in court and has sued her for the balance. Does she own a home? The home is

“transferred. So she does not own the property since 2006. Who's name is the property?”

Mine and my brothers. That was done in 2006. 2006, yeah. And she ran up the debt after that. Yes. Okay. I mean, I'm sure at the culmination of, I mean, I don't have old, I have old, the credit cards. And if you have any other assets at all, does she own anything?

Do you call? She doesn't own anything. She only, she does not. She does never, never drove.

How old is she? 85. How long has it been since she charged on the cards the last time? So last time was probably probably August, the beginning of August, and then of 2025, and then I told her to stop making the payment in September.

Who issued this 85-year-old broke widow credit cards? She has MX. She has

“a city map to court, a city visa, a city bank, and MX. So screwed in 85-year-old widow.”

They issued a card. They issued her a card at a high interest rate, and she has no income, but social security. Correct. Correct. This is the American Express we know and love. Yeah, this is a city bank. What's in your wallet? We screw widows. Yeah. Well, we didn't, I didn't make any attempts to reach out to any of the credit card companies either. I don't like to say. She doesn't have any money to give them any way.

Yeah. Now, I would explain to her that if she ever borrows money again, she's stealing.

Right. Right. Because she has no ability to pay it back.

Yes. So she has to stop this on a moral basis. Well, now that I'm involved, it's not kind of is because I'm not allowing back to do. I have her. I have her on a short leash. Okay. And you're watching over the money. Yes, I am. Does she have enough in her social security to handle the things she needs handled,

“including like food utilities, all that, or does she need?”

Nay covers. She has a surplus of maybe like $300 by the end of the month. Okay. Appreciate you watching over her. So the answer to your question is if someone passes away

and they have zero assets, their debts simply don't get paid.

debts are not inherited in the United States. Okay. So you do not inherit debt, it's impossible. Now, if for that reason we ask all these questions, whether she owns a house, when you die what you own stands good for what you owe, your assets stand against your liabilities. And what's left over is called an inheritance. In this case, she doesn't own anything. Right? And so, you know, and so, these people will simply

not get paid upon her death. By the way, you cannot garnish social security either. So, sue away. She's what we call what we call judgment proof, sue away. And then if you guys want to talk to city or MX, it's up to you and offer them 10 cents on the dollar to just go away. Just from the hassle standpoint and the family just put together a little money and get rid of this. And she's not ever going to borrow again. And the cards are all cut up and the accounts are all

closed. That would be a nice thing to do. But I'm under no moral obligation because these people loan money to an 85-year-old widow who's on social security, they got what's coming to them. Okay. Okay. Yeah. When American Express and City Bank does this kind of thing and they do it every day, they loan money to people who can't pay. And they know they can't pay. And they know they can't pay. And they don't care. And her mother's, your mother sits awake at night,

ringing her hands because she has honor. And she wants to honor her obligations. But she has no ability mathematically to because these people screwed her. And that's probably the reason why if you can't settle, I would because there is an emotional task. Yeah, right. So, she's not seeing the sheriff at the front door with a summons. Exactly. Right. So, the one that did issue the summons already is American Express. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah, there's some of the nasty

Assumines on the planet. So, we work with them all the time. You can tell they're lying if they're mouths moving. So, I didn't know if it's something that needs to be responded to. I can't if you want. It's up to you. What's the balance on it? The annex at the time without any interest that now a crude was $9,385.15. Do you all want to give them to you and your husband want to give them $1,000 to go away? I mean, if it was to go away, I would. Okay, then call them.

And say, you call the lawyer or do you call the lawyer if you want. You just call the lawyer and go, hey, you're so in an 85-year-old woman who's on social security. You get nut and honey. Do you have the money to do it? And if you've got extra money on the internet, my husband and I are willing to give you $1,000 just so you piss off. But otherwise, piss off. Okay, and they can't

“resell it to somebody else. That's why that's why I said that you can tell they're lying”

if they're mouse moving. So be sure you get it in writing and do not give them any access to any,

security. She has no assets. She's judgment proof. Our financial coach said to tell you to piss off.

But I decided I'd make you an offer of $1,000. And see if you'll go away. And I'm your financial coach. I just told you that. So you can tell them I said that. Okay? Okay. I hate those people. This is the stuff they do to regular people every day. And then we dance around and go, I need an MX card because I get a gold card or a platinum card. And I'm somebody based on the metal in my plastic. Oh god. It's not good, man. Hey, you don't want to read the Bible

and read what happens to people that messes with orphans and widows. These are not two sets of

people you want to mess with. God is not happy with you when you're messed with these people.

Widows and orphans are protected class, hello? You don't want to, you just don't want to be under that microscope. It's not a good place to be. You want to be on the other side. You want to be blessings to widows and blessings to orphans. This is the side you want to be on of this equation. Well, you get what you pay for. Okay, guys, let me ask you something. What would it take for you to switch your bank? Because if you're

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bundle from FairWins Credit Union. You get a high yield savings account, a no fee checking account, and the Ramsey B weird debit card. Go to FairWins.org/Ramsey to learn more and make the switch today. That's FairWins.org/Ramsey. Ensured by the NCUA. Well, your house prices continue to go up last month, the median house price. That's the middle house price in America. I went up to a little over $425,000. That's typical for the spring market

that we continue to see bumps and increases even in a fairly slow market like we got right now.

“If you want to learn more about housing market trends, because you're thinking about how do I”

get ready for this when it's time to jump in, all that's kind of stuff. We've got all kinds of mortgage rate updates, price market, market updates, market trends, all kinds of stuff. It Ramsey Solutions.com/Market, help you buy or sell with confidence. Ramsey Solutions.com/Market. And of course, you click on the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. Jenna is in Utah, Hi Jenna, how are you? Hi, I'm doing well. Good. What's up? My husband's grandpa wants to

buy us a car, and my husband thinks this is a great idea to help us on our financial journey, and I think it's a bad idea. He's so abundant being too proud. Why is it a bad idea? Yeah. Well, he would pick a stipulation on this purchase is that we would have to buy it from a dealership, so it would have some kind of warranty. Okay. We don't have any money to contribute to this purchase because

“we just replace the main waterline to our house. Is he buying any cash? I believe that's the plan.”

He would be willing to spend $19,000. And I'm just worried. That's a very precise weird number. It's the amount that he was told by his financial person would not put a interest for taxes. There's something I'm not sure. Oh, give tax. Give tax. That is correct. Okay. I want to know the difference. Is he married? I don't know. You're married. So it could be difficult for that.

$19 and give your husband $19. Is he wanting you to finance this or he just wants to give you the cash and he wants to go buy a car? He wants to go buy the car. Okay. What is the downside of this for you? Why are you saying this is not a good idea? I'm concerned that I guess it does sound silly that it's not going to be a car that I'm really going to like. I've been trying to save up for a nice car. I want to get it there. Yes, give me. And I don't want to have a car that I feel like I

“have to keep driving year after year because it was a gift. Are you a two car family?”

My point in asking that is what stops. My point in asking that is what would stop the car that grandfather buys, reverting to your husband, and then you when you're ready to buy the car. You want buying the car you want. The car that we have right now barely fits all of us, and so we could get another car. Yeah, my point is whatever car you get now is probably better than the cars you have. Jenna, there's something else going on. You're not telling the whole story.

Guys trying to give you $19,000 car and you're bitching about it. I can't figure out why. You don't like him as he is he going to come over to your house and visit to make sure you shine the car. Yeah. Is he a jerk? What's going on? No, he's a nice guy. You shouldn't have

“been a little critical lately, but I mean, I don't know. Oh, he's been critical. Un solicited critical.”

Yeah. And yeah, you're afraid that if you take a car from him, that gives you permission to be

a full-on critical. Yeah, that's fair. That's a fair concern. Yeah, you don't have to take the gift.

If you think there's going to be strings attached, if you think it's going to add strain, you don't have to take it, but at the same time, if somebody is just blessing you and it's it is your pride or it is something that you're coming up with in your mind, that's going to block this. We want to see that clearly with you. Why am I too? When you're talking about buying the car you on, are you talking about buying that car on payments? I'm sorry. What was that? When you're talking

about buying the car, you want to buy a part from Grandpa's gift. We're not taking Grandpa's gift,

and we're not taking it because he's critical and he'll be hyper critical if he gives you a gift.

And because you want to go buy a car that's big enough for your old family, because the car you have barely now holds your family, and you want to buy a car that holds your family, are you talking about taking out car payments? No. You're going to pay cash for the car of your dream that you were talking about a while ago. Yeah, I would like to spend about $30,000 on a car. You don't have $30,000. How close are you to saving that? We are set back to zero after replacing the

“omega water line. So how would I would like to spend $30,000? I have no money. How does that compute?”

No. So what I wanted to do was get a small car for my husband now and then sell it in a year or two when we have more money as we've been saving, but I'm worried that if we want to sell a car especially if it's the car that we've been gifted in a year or two for now that that's not going to go over a while. I'm going to be honest with you. I think that there's just as much issue on your end as there is on grant dads end. I think you both have something that is contributing negatively

to this equation. I have to say I don't want to take grandpa's $19,000 gift because I want about $30,000 car, but I have no money. This is not a logical sentence. Okay. That's fair. That's fair. I, you know, that's my husband's concern as I am. It's not hard. It's not pride.

So here's what I would do. With what I have heard and I'm not sure. Still not sure I got all of it,

but with what I have heard, I would suggest that you either don't take the gift and just start saving and work your plan and say thank you grandpa. I appreciate that very much. Or you visit with your husband or your husband visits, not you. You don't say a word. He visits with his grandpa and says grandpa, we would like to take the gift, but we have to be able to, we have to know that it's a true gift. And the gift cannot come with criticism from you. Are you critiquing everything we're doing in the

future? You can't come over here and tell us how to live. If that comes with a gift, we can't take the gift. And we have to be able to grandpa appreciate the gift, to honor the gift. But if we take the gift,

not coming over and sticking your nose in our business grandpa and you're not good with the fact that

I own a stinking car and if I want to trade it later, I feel free to do so. If you're not good with those things, if that's not going to go over well to use your phrase, grandpa, then I can't take your gift. That's my two stipulations and I do appreciate the offer. But if the offer comes with me being trapped in the car and you coming over here and sticking your nose up my business all the time, this ain't going, I don't need the car. Now you can be a little bit light nicer than that, but that's

the message needs to be delivered. And if grandpa goes, "No, you honey, I'll do whatever you want. I just got some extra money. Y'all are struggling young couple, I love you and I just want you to win.

“And I'm trying to help. If you want to sell it next day after I give it to you, that's fine.”

And but I want you to get a good solid car. Those babies can ride in and be safe.

I wanted to have a warranty. I don't agree with that as a dumb idea. But if he wants to do that, it's his gift, that's fine. Is the husband concerned whatsoever that this is a bad idea? No, he's used to this family script where people stick their nose in where they're not supposed to. So he didn't bother him a bit. Yeah. No, he doesn't bother him at all. Oh, God, God. You get used to your family's dysfunction and you don't smell it.

Right. Yeah, that's, we all do. I mean, we all have that. And so yeah, so yeah, but if he, if your husband is willing to do that, you don't need to say a word because you'll be the wicked witch of the West. You'll get painted up as the ungrateful little woman that married his grandson. Right. You don't you don't need that paintbrush. So just just I think she might already be painted up like that. Be very, very quiet. Yes. There's weapons. She'll be very quiet from 10 years and things are getting better.

Okay. Okay. Yeah. So anyway, yeah, I think you just back off and but also not taking it and it's not because you're prideful. It's because I see boundary danger. You want to preserve the relationship? Those things are boundary violations. I'm not allowed to sell a car. I own. That's a boundary violation because it won't go over will. And you're going to come over here and tell me I live my life because you gave me $19,000. No, thank you. I'll pass. That's not pride. That's wisdom.

So walking away from this and less those two things are cleared up. I is a good idea. I agree with you and it's not because you're prideful. You're getting ready to hit the road this summer. You want to feel confident. Your car is ready to go. But when you don't fully understand what's going on under the hood, it's easier to either ignore something important or spend money you didn't need to because let's be honest.

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And you yell, "I've had it!" That's when you change. Until then it's all theory and discussion and intellectual exercise. But nothing changes until you get really, really, really, I've had it. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. If you're tired of working so hard and getting nowhere, well, you gotta do something different to get something different. Hello, if you don't like the cake, you're making it turns out chocolate. Maybe you ought to change the

recipe. Or maybe you want it chocolate. I don't want chocolate actually. So, if you keep getting vanilla,

“I need to change the recipe. Right? So, if you don't like what's happening, you need to change something.”

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“because you have to say I've had it. And when you say I've had it, that's not free.”

It's going to cost you something. We're not going to charge you because it's free from us. But it's going to cost you something. Get ready to pay a price if you want to win. No one wins without paying a price. Breeze with us Breeze in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Hi, Bree, how are you? I'm well. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So my husband and I worked diligently to be on track to retire at 55. It's not sooner. Cool. Until we've realized that we can't

touch my retirement until 59 and a half. And now I'm not sure what to do with my money. How old are you? The gap. I'm 30 to 33. Oh, you got plenty of time. I'm going to sign your freaking out. So what are you going to do from 55 to 85? Nothing. I don't know. I would love to have the ability to do nothing. You want to be work optional. Yeah, exactly. Okay. How much do you have in your 401k is this so

“forth now? It's so combined. We're at about 530. Excellent job. Okay. And what do you all make?”

About 170 a year. Excellent. And your debt free except your house are including your house. Except your house. Okay. And what do you all in the home? That's up 100,000. How much? 300,000. Okay. Okay. Cool. You're doing so good. There's nothing to panic about. Now, so the answer to your question has from me and I'll let Jade chime in too.

Has two parts. One is I would continue to work the baby steps first and foremost. And that's

putting 15% of your income away in retirement. The 59 and a half accessible. Okay. I'll switch your word about and get your house paid off. You're going to do that in plenty of time when the house is paid off then to start funding a bridge. Because the bridge is not that big a bridge. You're only talking about four years and so only need 400 grand. And how fast can you build up 400 grand really, really fast when you start putting your house payment away? Right. Yeah. So I mean,

really, you probably need 300 grand because that's actually going to be earning because you're going to put it in like an S&P 500. And so if you start that, you know, you're probably going to pay off the house in the next four or five years away you're going and you've got 15 and by the way,

in seven years, you're going to have a million knowing about about five years because you're adding

to it. About five years, you're going to have a million in your 401k and worse case is something comes along and stubbed your toe and you're sitting there at 50 and you have five years and you still don't have any bridge money built and you still think you want to get there. But you by then you've got three million dollars in your 401k will stop your 401k for a little while and

“just build your bridge. What split would you do? I do 100% if you did that. But here's the thing,”

that scenario is not going to happen because you would have to have something pretty severe happen to cause you to have not had the house paid off and then start putting the house money aside. Because if you start putting your house payment away, you know, you start putting what 40,000 bucks a year away, you're going to have you're going to have 400,000 about 20 minutes. It goes really, really fast. Okay, and you just would put that in stock. Yeah, just an S&P 500. You want to put it in something that's

called a load, like an S&P 500 index because it's a low turnover ratio. If the mutual fund is not in a retirement account and they sell the stocks inside of it. It creates taxes every year. But if it's in a low turnover mutual fund, meaning they don't sell the tax, so the stocks inside of it very often, like hardly at all, like a 5% turnover ratio or less, which is what an S&P 500 index fund would be. They're not going to turn those stocks over. They just sit on them. And so that will

grow without taxes until you sell it. And so it grows, it grows the capital gains rate, not

Because see, if you buy a stock, if you buy a mutual fund or anything, and it's not, you don't you buy a stock in Home Depot and it's $55. I made that up. I don't even know what Home Depot Depot is, but okay, $55. It goes to $155. You don't pay taxes on the $100 and growth until you sell it. And the same goes true of a mutual fund whether or not it's on the stock. You don't pay any taxes on it until you sell it. And so you could start that at 50 and you will be just fine. But I think

“you're going to be there way earlier than that. And yeah, you should look at building some wealth”

outside of retirement accounts, because you're going to easily have $10 million in retirement.

Well, yeah, you got to kill them. You're doing so good. Oh, this money that I can't put. How did you do it? How did you save so much money so quickly as so young? Did you avoid debt? Like, what was the, yeah, I mean, my husband and I both avoided that. I had a little bit of student loans that I paid off pretty quick. And then you just, you were provoked. Okay. Well, here has a thing. You were a house two times we made a couple hundred.

Yeah, it was very good. You're doing way better than the emotion that is in your voice, two different times in this conversation that said, the money is trapped. And it's like too much drama in that. Okay. You've got it. You've got you're okay. You're going to be wealthy. You're okay. You just need to follow a plan through. And there's no, like there's no alternative. We're going to be trapped. All this. We're going to have $10 million and it's trapped. Oh, darn. I hate it when

that happens. You know, so you're being okay. You get the house paid off. And then start building

some other wealth. And the numbers never turn out like you're projecting when you're 30.

They, you know, it's good to project out because it gives you pieces.

“As I'm going to retire with dignity, I don't have to eat alpo, right?”

Oh, yeah. And I would go on to ramsysolutions.com and look at the investing calculator. And then you can run out and say, okay, at the current rate, yeah, we're investing 15%. How quickly do we need to pay off our mortgage so that we can bump up that 15%. So that we can still put 15% in the 401(k)s. And then they put that all out. And then put some other. Yep. And put that in a good S&P. Yep.

And let that sucker ride. And then once you see, but once you see the numbers, then you can say,

okay, I have a plan. I don't have to be dramatic. You're going to be okay. You've got lots of times, lots of times in the next 20 years that you can stop adding to your 401(k) and still make your mortgage. Absolutely. Okay. And still end up with millions of dollars. So don't stop now. That's way premature. And here's the other thing. It's okay to have quote work optional, which means you're financially, you're able to do things, but works really not optional. You need it for your

“brain. You should do something with your life. You're way too talented to sit on your butt”

and binge watch Netflix. You should do something with your life. And so work optional is fine. But then go work. Okay. I haven't had to work in decades. I work because I love this. . Let me tell you something. I see happen way too often. People fall behind on their bills and they wait. They hope it will work itself out. It won't. That's why I recommend Guardian Litigation Group. Here's the deal. If you've missed payments, collectors are calling, or if

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only gets paid when the debt is negotiated and you accept the settlement offer. This isn't about shortcuts. It's about dealing with the problem before it gets worse. Go to GuardianLit.com/Ramsy today. That's GuardianLIT.com/RamsyToday. It's earning advertising results may vary in no specific outcome is guaranteed.

Better than I deserve or what's up? Hey, so I wrecked up a little over 30,000 and I was wondering if I should try and pay it off or just file for bankruptcy. Because I'm kind of in paycheck to paycheck with all that debt. What do you owe it on, what kind of debt? Credit cards, personal loans. I have a couple of things in collections now. What caused you to fall on such a hard time that you were

“putting that much debt on credit cards and personal loans. Did you lose the job or?”

No, I started gambling last year. You ran up 30,000 out of 1 million. You ran up 30,000 out of 1 million. You ran up 30 K in 1 year. Yeah, I was winning pretty big and then I just started losing. Apparently not. Is this sports betting? No, this is in person. Sometimes online, just you know, this sports stuff. How long has it been since you gambled? Two days. So let's be real clear. You identified in the first minute and a half that I know you

that you have a problem gambling and that it is run you up close to bankruptcy. And yet you continue. Yes, I'm just trying to chase the one. I'm sorry. I'm just trying to chase the one back. Have you considered being held? Take the win back. Is that what you said? I'm trying to win the money back. Yeah, yeah, okay. You have all the symptoms of someone who has an gambling addiction.

It's not an addiction because I can stop right now. Then why don't you? Because he's trying to win and you've lost $30,000 and you're talking to me about bankruptcy. This is the logical hunt. You've got to figure out what causes the problem and stop what causes the problem. The the debt is not the problem. It's the symptom. The problem is the gambling. And so if you file bankruptcy on this and you continue to gamble,

you did not fix the problem. You're under the illusion that you're good at this and you're not. You suck at it. You're $30,000. I don't know. I just want to be out of the clear so I can stop living paycheck.

Now in the way you do that is you stop first and then you go back again. Never go back again.

“You need to get on. You need to get online and get in touch with gamblers anonymous and you”

sit in a group and you never need to never play cards again. You can't handle it. You're not good at it. It owns you right now. The only problem I see with is just the debt, the number, but I don't think it's really like an addiction or anything. You called us and based on your logic, we both think that you do have an addiction. So there's something about you. Here's, there's something about you that trusts us otherwise you wouldn't have called in.

So at ChgvT and they said to file for bankruptcy. You know, in ChatGPT, he just knows everything. It's kind of like God. No, it's not. I'm going to get a human answer because I'm a friend of yours. Yeah, because the ChatGPT didn't challenge you on what's really going on. It just said you had $30,000.

I'm living paycheck to paycheck. And ChatGPT has never had to live 30 years later. Still filling out

“forms. It says have you ever filed bankruptcy. And for the rest of your life, you have to say yes.”

And if you do it, sure it could clear your debt, but you're not bankrupt. You're gambling too much. And if you don't stop that, then you'll be right back where you started. So that's not the solution. 100% chance you're going to be back in debt again after you're bankruptcy. If you don't stop the gambling, 100%. You don't see that, do you? You think you file you just quit gambling? I mean, what if I just come like horizontal collections?

Yeah, what if you stopped gambling? I mean, that could work too, but yeah, that would work.

How old are you? 24? Okay. All right. Here's the thing.

For 35 years. Okay. And one of the things sadly, I've gotten to spend a lot of time with Phillip

“is people who are addicted to something because if you're addicted to cocaine, if you're addicted to”

pornography, if you're addicted to gambling, if you're addicted to something, 100% of it of addicts are broke eventually. 100% probability, if you're addicted to something, eventually causes you to be broke. And it'll usually also cause you to lose all of your relationships too. And so you've got two people here that know what we're talking about that love you. We're not trying to get anything from you. We're not making a dime on this. There's no, there's no poker chips in the middle of the table.

There's no bluff. It's just two people looking at you selling you the truth. You're not bankrupt. You need three extra jobs, a detailed plan and quit gambling. And you have a problem gambling.

“You're getting a high from it. You're getting a dopamine hit. And you're going back and you're”

saying all the lines. You know what, you know what, addicts always say. I can stop anytime I want.

You know what, addicts always say I'm waiting on the next one. I'm waiting on the next high. These are these are classic. If you read addiction literature, it sounds like your verbage Philip. And so I mean, we're not professional counselors, but dude, I've worked with thousands of addicts. And it's really distressing to hear the way you're talking. I'm scared for you. I'm scared for you. If I can put my arm around you and pray for you right now, I would. So I will be at the commercial break. I can promise you that.

But you're not going to get a good quality of life until you stop this because it's not blessing you.

“It's not bringing good things to your life. And it's costing you money and you're believing a lie.”

The mythology in your language is enormous. So please get some help. Go see gamblers anonymous. Stop. Now. Now. Stop now. And go be the man you're supposed to be, which is a guy who's productive and prosperous and is worthy of the hand of a good woman and becomes a great dad someday. And go be that guy. Don't be some guy who's looking for the next win. That's such a pitiful statement.

You can do this. I promise you you can do it and we'll help you. You call us back. We'll always tell you the truth.

Even if you don't like it, sometimes especially if you don't like it, but you're not bankrupt. $30,000 is not enough to file bankruptcy on you. There's lots of ways you can pay that off. Stop paying your cards. Work your way right through it. You can get with guardian litigation. They'll set up a plan. Do it all. But they will not set it up for you if you have symptoms of addiction. Because they know that you're not going to follow through. You can't do a plan when you need

when you continue going back and losing money every night. Can't get out of a hole while you're digging out the bottom. Oh, no, you can't.

So guys just to recap a minute and set Phillips case aside for a second. The fastest growing

addiction in America that is destroying more households than anything else is online porn. It has gotten completely out of control. It generates more revenue than 100% of the professional sports put together including NASCAR. Baseball football, soccer, basketball, NBA, MLB, every single sport, billions and billions of dollars of sports added up. Don't keep up with a porn industry in America. And the number of people are losing their families

and losing their lives to it is astronomical. The second fastest growing right now, gambling. And the reason it's the fastest growing is online accessibility on both of those, porn and gambling. By far the fastest and sports betting among young men in their 20s, it's destroying them.

Christine is in Oklahoma. Hi, Christine. How are you? I'm good. How are you doing? Better than I deserve or what's up? So I had a question related to my career.

I'm in my first year as an attorney. So I graduated last May. Took the bar, 8 months pregnant,

pass the bar, I might be against September, start work as a too much later. And I'm currently working right now and I really don't like it. I took out 115k and student loans to get this degree. And I really liked Los Hull but I am not liking it right now. And so I'm kind of what did you love about at all school? I love learning about the law. I love the reading. What I'm struggling with right now is a lot of the bill hours. The job I'm in is pretty

fast-paced, high-earning berm. And so the bill hour requirements are pretty high. And with a nine-month-old,

“I'm just really struggling. Is it the, so it's not the work, it's the pace that you have to”

do the work because of the baby. Yeah, I was like to be home with her more and have more flexibility. And I think when I, when I went to Los Hull, I wasn't planning on having a baby till a couple years down the road into my career. And I wasn't anticipating feeling so much more like, I just want to be home with her. So I mean, that's fair. I think that you're obviously married. What, what did your husband make? He makes about 60, 65 today. He's a high school

teacher and a ball coach. Yeah. And you make what at the high powered high billing law firm? I make a 105 base and I got a child bonus of 10, so a bonus of 10. Yeah. Okay. So you've been a lawyer since September. It says, yeah, so it's, well, I passed the barns at September and I started working as

“that spring in November. That's what I went back to work after the baby. All right, so seven months.”

Yeah. Have you explored other options where the pace is not quite so fast or the hours aren't as high?

I have. So I, I'm just not sure being in my first year for one, I'm in Oklahoma and

a lot of the jobs that aren't as high billing don't pay as much. And we have a lot of students loans. I thought maybe I could last a year or two get them knocked out and be done with it and then go do whatever. I mean, how quickly can you pay off 15,000 on 170,000? 115,000. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm misheard. And I miss saw it on there. Okay. 115,000. Yeah. Yeah. 115. And then my husband had like 12. So around 130. I mean, I think I could get it knocked out pretty quick. I mean, it wouldn't be

less than a year though. No, we would take 18 months. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm sorry. There's two things we can do. One is I think you're extrapolating the situation that you're in to all lawyers and all lawyers don't face what you're facing. So there's other ways to utilize the law degree and and make a good living. Maybe not make what you're making at this instance seven or 10 months into your career. That's possible. You're not going to make more that you're probably not going to make this if

you did something else. But you can't go post-partum and say I'm going to throw away the amount of years and the amount of money invested into this. You know, just based on the fact that I'm pretty stressed out at this particular moment. Instead, we have to look at other ways to dial the stress down without going all the way to zero. Yeah. And so if you can't and I can't put myself in your skin, only you and your husband can prayerfully consider this. If you can't suck it up and

run the gauntlet for 18 months and clear the student alone, then the second thing and that's

“that I actually the best thing. But that's very hard to do and I'm not saying everybody can do that”

and I'm not saying you have to. I'm just saying that's option one. That's actually plan A. Okay. Plan B would be how can we utilize the law degree? Maybe make more but maybe make a little less and be in a situation where I can actually breathe and I'm not just about to punch everybody out because I'm so stressed out all the time and I'm trying to raise A. Baby. And so that's cool.

Yeah. And I, I'm not. You gave up the option of being a full-time mom, set it home with the baby when you made the decision to go 115,000 hours in debt. You gave that up. I agree 100%.

Okay. And I don't want to not work. I've never been that type of person that can sit around.

I mean, that's kind of what I want to do. You need an option B. You need an option that will

“allow you to. Well, if in here's the thing, if you can get a real clear picture like actually go”

interview for the job, for option B. And you know it's there. Sometimes if I have that at least that, I don't, I don't feel as trapped. And then I can got something out for a little while longer. Yeah, because you know if you have to pull that. But if it feels like this is extended for 10 years, it feels like it's forever. I just can't do it. I lose my hope. You know? Yeah. Yeah. So I agree. Yeah. And yeah, I think that's probably the way to go there. So guys,

setting Christian's obviously very bright lady and I'm glad we were able to help her.

Setting her particular situation and her particular self aside for a second.

This is how the student loan crisis occurred. This is how we have almost two trillion dollars now in student loan debt out there. Because we told people that your life, if you go get an education,

“your life is going to be exactly what you want it to be. And it never works out that way.”

I talked to a lady not long ago who's making $400,000 a year as an MD and she had a special needs child. And now she's faced with this desperate desire to be at home with a special needs child.

Versus her $400,000 income and her $600,000 in student loan debt.

And so she's trapped between this in that situation. That's a more extreme version of what Christian is facing. But as Christine so eloquently said, they don't tell you this when you're in Oscar. No, they don't. That as soon as you hold that baby in your arms, thanks change, thanks change. And you can't anticipate this until you're in it. And you can't see

“that coming. It's impossible. I don't tell you this when they say, oh, it's you're going to make”

so much more money because you got a degree. Yeah, when you're in late teens and mid-20s, you're not thinking about the day you might have a baby, you're thinking about getting your education and doing whatever it takes to do something. You're not thinking about all the, that's a positive thing that could happen. But all the negative things that can happen. Absolutely. The tragedies that can come across your path. And those things happen to people every night. Yeah. So yeah,

don't sign up for these trips because you get trapped. The borrower is slave to the lender. And Jesus said it's hard to serve two masters. You'll hate one and love the other. Hey, guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help any time with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use

on the show, whether you're making a decision or just want something explained. Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple and free to use. Go to RamseySolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's RamseySolutions.com. Today's Ramsey show, question of the day, is brought to you by Wi-Refi. Defalted, private student loans can derail your money plans. But Wi-Refi helps borrowers explore refinancing

options that'll help you get on track again. Learn more at Wi-Refi.com/Ramsey. That's the letter Wi-Refi.com/Ramsey might not be in all states. Okay. Today's question comes from Keith in California.

on our budget, but we have one reoccurring disagreement. I spend about $40 every three months

on a haircut which fits our budget. My wife would prefer that I visit a professional barber every month at a cost of around $110 per visit. Her argument is that it makes me look better. It helps my professional image, and I love this one. It makes her feel better, but my hair and beard are styled. I don't think the barber is a waste of money, but my concern is that a 110 monthly bill doesn't seem to fit our budget or online with the

intensity of baby step two. Is this the type of expense that should wait until we're debt free? Or is it reasonable to include it in the budget because of the personal and professional benefits? I have some opinions on this. I can't wait. Because I don't. My first thought is, my first thought is, this woman is desperate. There's something that she's trying to be nice,

“but it sounds like you're really in the need of some grooming to be done. That's what I think.”

It goes against a $40 haircut, they don't groom that. Every three months? Three months? That's a quarter. That's a long time. And my, his beard, I'm imagining the sky with a long beard. You know, if you don't condition your beard, it's gradually start smelling weird. I think that this is a

desperate woman speaking. However, you are on baby step two, is there a way? Here's what comes to mind.

Can you? I don't have a point of perspective, so I have to interrupt you. I, okay. What does Sam spend? I think it's probably around 110 or so a month. Because I think George Campbell spends somewhere around $1,400 a minute. I'm kidding. I made that up. Well, George has more hair than Sam. George Campbell has, he's got serious hair. He works at it really hard.

“Yeah. I think the amount is not an abnormal amount that she's saying. That's what I was,”

because I don't have nothing to base it on, because I haven't been to a barber in 30 years. Yeah, I don't know. I don't think, I mean, what do you guys think, James? You're, James, you're a wolf. I mean, I, I get my hair cut every five weeks, and it's like 50 bucks, maybe. 50 bucks. Yeah. I do like a membership thing, so I don't know what it is every single time. So that being said, I think there's, you could price split the difference. I think you can go

more than once a quarter. And I think that you can spend less than $110 a month. I think you can price spend $60 or $70 in do it in California. Does that matter? That might matter. He's having Esteban do his, do his beard. I can't tell if we're dealing with a cheesy top beard here or what? A smelly beard. I think you got a condition with the oils. I don't know. It this is a point of contention. She's not digging what's going on there, but or you could shave

the beard. That's half of the haircut. Go clean, shaving, and just do the top, the top layer.

“Could do that. There's options here. I think you need to meet your wife halfway because,”

like he says, this is, there, there are personal benefits that sounds like on the line, personal and professional. And for that reason, I'm going to say out the budget. What do you say? The first thing that occurs to me is it's just not a lot of money. We're talking about. No. It's not. Unless they don't make hardly any money. Yeah, they live in California. I don't know. It's not a lot of money, difference.

But I also see a lot of, I mean, you can get a haircut and have a professional image without

going over the top. I haven't never done it, so I don't know. I mean, he might be getting a really

bad sports clips haircut for $40 once a quarter. And that can make it look really unprofessional. Yeah, not the best. I guess they're not going to be a sponsor. Sorry sports clips. You know, when they accidentally cut off too much of your side burns. Yeah, it's not blended. Yeah, I you've never had a bad haircut, so maybe you don't. Yeah, there's just so many things I could pay that I'm not funny here, but I would love to hear just one of them. I really, I mean,

it's like the guy that called in the other day about hair replacement. And I'm not the guy that I like hair plugs. Obviously, I did a pass on that one. And so, you know, I'm not the guy that asks, I'm not sympathetic or even empathetic. So, this is so interesting. Do they want to go into

a hard no, but yeah, yeah, I'm going to go back and listen to that one. Yeah, house is better than

shallow. So, so the real discussion is, if, I mean, there's a deeper discussion here. There's the money side of it, but then it's like, if one of your spouses is saying, that's an unattractive

“quality, I need you to do something about that. I feel like you need to run and run and fix that.”

What do you think? Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's why I got sentry them. They take care of your blind spots, but yeah. But the thing that's about me, is it the 110? No, no, it's this idea that this, that somehow you can't get a good haircut except this one that makes you professional.

And I'm just going, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Judging from the number, I think that he's probably getting

the worst haircut you can get. And she's probably like, can you just go to a normal barber, do you have to go to the discount place? Can you just go and get a fine haircut and can you just please get it done once a month, please? That's what I'm hearing. I have no idea because like it doesn't really. I really just don't have anything to add to the intelligence. John is an Indian apple, I say John, what's up? How's it going? Better than I deserve. Ask me something. I know the answer,

too, please. So I have completed, I've completed, they be steps one to four among number five. Good.

Trying to figure out how much I should be contributing to the 529 account. I have $13 extra a month

after my 15% of my household income saved. I'm really not clear in a bunch at the end. Yeah. So you're really not putting anything in your 529? How many are paying dollars a month? It's not going to do it. How many children do you have this one? Okay. What's your household income? Single, 1117. Okay. All right. Yeah. Until something shift around in your budget, you're probably just not starting your baby step five. That's okay. It's why it's after number four.

“Four is first, five is second, six is next. I mean that's why we have been ordered. They're”

numbered that way for a reason and do them in that order. And you're not going to go with the rest of your life and do nothing for college, but you may not be able to do something substantial for right now. And you can't open a mutual fund account for $13 a month. They don't have one. All right. Great. So I mean that's just, if you want to pile up money in the corner or something and have junior little piggy bank or something, that's okay. But how much do you need for a 529 account?

Well, I mean, what I would recommend people do and I don't want you to do this too stringently today because you can't really do anything today and we don't want you to stress out or anything. But if you wanted to actually have a mathematical target, you could just contact your, you know, the University of Indiana, your state school, right? And say, or whatever in state, in state school tuition, which is usually going to be right now in the 10-12 grand range,

something like that plus plus room in board, times four. And so, okay, that's our target. And we've got a lot of years to get there. So we will be accruing some gains on the mutual fund, some interest, so to speak. And so I don't have that much in actual dollars because some of it's going to be growth and I'm going to put it in a 529. And then you can

“sit down with your smart investor pro and figure out what per month you need to do to hit that target.”

But you don't have to worry about that today, you can't do it today. Hey, guys, George Campbell here. You ever feel like you make good money and still have nothing to show for it. You're running to target for one thing and somehow walk out $87 later with toothpaste and emotional support candles. Just me. Okay. Well, that's the problem. Most people don't pay attention to how they spend their money. So it does whatever it wants. And that's why we created

every dollar. It's a budgeting app that helps you create a simple plan for your money. Every dollar simple, it's clear and it helps track where your money's actually going. Plus, you get daily lessons to do's and reminders along the way. It's like having a money coach in your pocket. Your money's been freelancing long enough. It's time to give every dollar a full-time job. Go download every dollar for free on the App Store or Google Play.

got to have both sides of the ball if you're going to win the game. Hello. You know, you want the

“right kinds of coverage, not the rip off coverage, not the stuff that doesn't matter. And our”

free insurance coverage checkup helps you figure out if you have the right coverage and if you're paying too much for it. And we give you a personalized action plan with some clear next steps. So you can get real clear Ramsey footprint right there on your insurance coverage. We don't sell insurance. We teach and we will teach you what you're supposed to have and what's about not

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out if you got the protection you need. Ramsey Solutions dot com slash checkup. Kristen is in Connecticut. Hi, Kristen. How are you? Hi. Oh my goodness gracious. Thank you all so much for taking

“my call off. Thank you. What's up? So I am looking for advice at my husband and I, we were on”

babysat number two, working on three and now we're back to number one. My husband is in sales. And that occupation requires work expenses to be paid upfront like out of our pocket. It does get reimburse

that takes a month. So my ask is, how do you recommend taking our my husband and I personal income

our family expenses and separating it from his work expenses in in addition without using credit cards. What does the monthly expense run? It can range because it really depends if he travels or not with, he travels a couple times a month. So the expenses in a month, it takes a month for it to come back. What does he spend? I would say between three, like 3000. Okay. And what's your household income? Our combined is 374 and why is 3000 dollars a problem? I don't know, 3000 dollars

or something. To 6000. Well, we are investing a lot. We do have a lot of bills. But like for example, I would say like an Uber last month, Uber is $800 and we have client dinners. That's $3,000 out of $30,000. Why is that a problem? Even if it were six. You're spending a lot on other stuff. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot on restaurants. Right. But all it takes Kristen is for one month for you guys to set that $6,000 aside. We put $5,000 in on a separate checking account. We put

a debit card on it and spend it down, turn in the receipts. They give you 5000 back from the company. They put the 5000 back in that account, spend it down, turn in the receipts. They give you 5000 back from the company. You put it in that account. All you got to do is fund it one time and run the bank. And then it recycles. But you're acting like him being on the road and having expenses as your household problem. It's not. You have $30,000 a month coming in and you've put a bull's eye

on this three grand. Like it's the problem. It's not. You guys got other problems. You're spending like you're in Congress at home. We don't have 30,000 coming in. That's $300,000. That's $300,000. It's $50,000. It's because you're investing a ton. I get it. How much are you investing? Yeah. We're investing just about total, like 15 or sorry. Sorry. Oh, I have here 11%. Okay. 11% between our two IRAs, a work of 5, 2, 9, 2, 4, 1,

“okay. Then I still don't think that's even the problem. I think the problem is exactly what Dave”

said with $3000 a month. I think you guys are just spending without a plan and we'd love to give you a plan because I wish that you were investing 15%. How many of them? How much debt do you guys have? So our credit cards are 10,000. We I do have a student loan of about 90,000. And our daycare is 2500 a month. The real kickers are mortgage. Much is your mortgage. Trying to get around that. 10,000 a month. How long have you been making this kind of money? Is this new

for you or have you guys been earning like this for a while? It is new. He got promoted a year ago

But I think having a second checking account is a great idea. I would like to try that. When did you get the mortgage? You want to do anything to keep from facing the fact that you have a $10,000 mortgage that you can't afford. You worked really, really hard in this conversation and

never bring that up. Is that new that happened after the promotions or did you have that before?

So we had it before because we knew we were getting the promotions. So but we can't sell the house until we've been here two years because we pay capital gains tax. But has it gone at that margin value? What's it gone up in value? I think it's projecting $100 a year so we put $250k down and we're looking at getting about that in return. Yeah so there's no capital gains because there's no gain.

“Yeah not right now. So you have to worry about capital gains. There's a false flag too.”

So we don't have a gain. You don't have capital gains tax.

Okay. Here's what I think. I think you guys have gotten way, way, way, way, way, way too comfortable.

And way, way, way, way, way too sloppy. And I think it's coming back to bite you in the butt. And what a shame because you make such good money but you're not able to fully experience it because you guys have gotten so sloppy and you're just adding more and more to this mess. Yeah. So here's what I would say. Okay. Mathematically his expense account is not your problem. Mathematically because it's $3,000. Okay. Mathematically 11% going into

investments is not that much. It's only $3,000. That's only $6,000 between the two. So you can cover both of those with $3,000, $3,000. And so those really aren't the issue but they're all but they're straining are they're exposing a budget that is desperately strained by a house payment

“that you probably can't afford. So here's what I would try. I assume you like the house right?”

Dreamhouse. Okay. I don't turn into a nightmare but let's leave that to the side. Okay. I have been in sales my whole life. I grew up in a salesman's household and for a long, long time as a salesman I really thought I didn't think this intellectually but I acted as if I thought that I could out-earn my bad decisions. Out-earn my stupidity. And so salesman have a tendency to think that because salesman are glass half full people. They're optimists.

I'll go knock another deal down. We'll be just fine honey. And this guy's obviously a very good salesman. He's even sold himself on getting into this mess but salesman have a tendency to those of us that are

“good at it and I'm in the same bucket. That's how I can smell it. We have a tendency to try to”

out our own stupidity. So what I want you to do is I want you guys to get on a very, very tight budget. Stop your investing for a minute. Get the $5,000 in a separate account on the debit card so you can control the business expenses. And then we don't have arguments over $800 Uber or dinner out with clients because he's closing deals. And he needs to do the $800 Uber and he needs to go out with dinner on clients because that's what's causing all this money to come in. And so we need

to protect that. But we need to not spend the expense money on anything except business, reimbursable expenses. We need to stop investing temporarily, get the budget under control, in detail, and see if you can afford to keep this house. I think you're going to find you can't keep it.

But I want you to try to keep it first.

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Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 1628, a trouble maker, plants, seeds of strife.

Gossip separates the best of friends. Teddy Roosevelt said, "If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn't sit for a month." Oh, wow. Plot twist. You got to love Teddy Roosevelt. Donald and Boston, what's up?

Not good afternoon, Dave. Afternoon. How can we help? Well, I'm 57, my wife's 64, and she wants to retire in three years. And I do not have a financial advisor and I'm worried about running out of money. So I've been looking around and I ran to somebody who wants to sell me an annuity,

which doesn't sound like the best idea. So I thought I would touch base and see what you thought

“that's what I were. Okay. You did not find a financial advisor. You found a life insurance agent.”

It followed himself a financial advisor. Because the typical financial advisor will not sell you an annuity except in very rare circumstances. They're not super bad, but they're not super good. It's the only way a life insurance agent can that doesn't have a securities license can get you into a mutual fund as through a variable annuity. And so they use that. So no, don't do that and don't use that guy.

So talk about your situation. How much money do you guys have saved now? Well, in 401(k)s and IRAs, we have about 9,50,000. Way to go, millionaire. Not there yet. That's awesome. You are there. I mean, you own some other stuff more than that.

So you've got a million dollar net worth. I'm proud of you. What's your house worth?

Maybe $5.50. And it's paid off. So there's your million four net worth, million six net worth. Yeah, a way to go, man. Proud of you. You've all start with nothing? We were brought up poor, but I didn't discover you until 10 years ago. And I was buried in debt. And I owe pretty much my debt freelancel to you, actually.

So you did this whole thing in 10 years from 45 to 55 or 57. Way to go, man, a proud of you. So no, hey, man, you got plenty money. You don't, you stay with continuity. You simply need to get these 401(k)s all set up. And you're your huge nest eggs set up to work for you now instead of you working for it. You spent the last 10 years scratching and clawing and working to build it. And now it's time

for it to work for you. So get online at Ramsey Solutions and get to a smart vester pro and sit down and look at them and say, "Teach me." Until I learn, I do nothing. So teach me. That's their job is to teach you. And once you understand it, enough to explain it back to them or back to me, then you're ready to do some more investing and to move some of this stuff around and get it to working in your favor. You got plenty of time. So let me give you an example.

“Your wife wants to work, how long three more years?”

No, she quit today if she could. I don't think you're getting her. I don't think we have the money. What's she earned? She earned $60,000. What do you earn? 175, but that's new as of three years ago. Well, I mean, if she quit, why can't you live on 175?

We could, but again, that not understanding how much money I have. Oh, you're second. You don't have enough money in the nest egg. I'm thinking we're going to write out a money one. I'm more 85. You're not. You're not. You're not. Let's walk through it, okay? You're in great shape. Here's some numbers for you. Number one, I want you to go on Ramsey

Solutions and pull up the calculator. Ramsey calculator retirement and look at it and start running some numbers back and forth to get your head around this, okay? But here's a couple of things you can remember. Is your 401K and your retirement invested in good mutual funds?

Yeah, like we teach. Yeah, I don't. Okay. So if they're averaging 10% that million dollars will double

in seven years, you'll be 64. You'll have two million dollars if you don't touch it between now and then. Okay. And when you're 71, if you haven't touched it still, which is not likely, you won't have touched some of it. But when you're 71, the two million will be four million.

“Without adding anything to it, that's what it'll do. Double every seven years if you're averaging 10%”

a lump sum will, okay? That's the math. Now, if that's happening, you're roughly going to have two million dollars to work with because you're going to live on.

you're going to, and then you retire, you know, and you can do that easy.

You're going to have two million dollars sitting there waiting on you. Plus, whatever you add

to it between now and then. So you probably have two, two and a half million dollars, okay? Now, if you pull off 10% a year off of two and a half million dollars, that's $250,000 a year. Okay. If you pulled off half of that, that's a hundred and a quarter a year. And you're not even touching the, and it's still rowing. If it's invested, and it's making 10 or 12 percent, and you're only pulling off five or six, seven percent to, you know, get back to the

“150,000, you're not even touching the money. You're only pulling off the growth. Does that make sense?”

Makes a lot of sense. So it's more thinking that you're going to tell me I was in trouble. No, you're not in trouble. You've, you've done very well, my friend. You're a millionaire. I'm so proud of you. I'm so happy the stuff we taught you worked. I knew it did, but I'm just so happy it worked for you. So you're, you're just awesome, man. You're in one of them. Baby steps millionaires. You're one of America's success stories. You're proof that we can do it still. And you're proof that the Communist College

Professor that's teaching people the socialism works as wrong. Okay. And so you're, you're the guy. Man, you did it. I'm so proud of you. So just keep, keep being the proof. So you're going to have two, two and a half million dollars. If she quits the day and you all live on 175 and you keep adding a

“little bit to your 401k and you sit down with your smart investor pro. And then if you want to”

live off a 5% that's going to be a hundred and a quarter. If you want to live off of 8% and it's growing at 10 or 12, it's still growing. You're not even touching it. So this runs to the point that you make this amount of money the rest of your entire life and you still leave to an half

million dollars to your ears. Because you never even touched the goose. You only lived off the

golden eggs. And if you leave the principal alone and live off the income that it creates or some of the income that it creates, it runs in perpetuation it to infinity and beyond as Buzz Lightyear said. Right? And that's it. So that's, it just keeps going mathematically. So just have a big enough nest egg that you can live off of some of the income that it's creating and you'll be just fine. Love that. That's so exciting. It's amazing. This is what happens when you get out of that at 45 years

old and tear into this. Of course, they're making two and a quarter between them. Yeah, I mean,

“when you have no dead and no house payment, that number that you need to pull off goes way down.”

Boom. Boom. Way to go, Donald. You inspired me today, sir. Yeah, that's it. So that's what you're looking for. So a good rule of thumb is if you can put it at, the market is average 11.8%. Okay. And so if you leave 4% in for inflation. So it's growing, you're not only not touching your nest egg, but it's growing by 4% a year. And you pulled off 8. That's about the most you should do.

And so per million dollars, that's $80,000 a year. So if you got two million bucks, that's $160,000 a year.

If you did that. Okay. And in his case, that's about right. You know, 120, 160 somewhere in there without, you know, he's got continuous to grow by inflation. So by the way, it's 160 next year is going to go up because the balance is going up and he's living off a percentage of it. So it's 164 and then it's 169. And so every year as inflation kicks, you're leaving 4% alone, which by the way, if you go back and look at the CPI, the consumer price index, which is the measure of inflation,

you will see over the last 100 years or so. It's average right around 4.2%. I know Biden had an 9.7, but we've had other years. It was 3. It's average about 4.2%. I know Jimmy Carter had 10% but Ronald Reagan had 4. Okay. And so you can argue about who, what, went and went, but go back, just look at the numbers. They're right there in the historical data. And you know, it's not a political math, it's not political. Very good, Donald,

score, baby. I love it. I put this out of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace Christ Jesus.