You Can’t Win Without a Clear Goal

>> Brought to you by the every dollar app,

start budgeting for free today. [MUSIC] >> Normal is broken common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network here in the Fairwins credit union studio.

This is the Ramsey show. I'm Jade Worsha next to me, Dr. John Deloni. We're going to take your calls all hour long. [MUSIC] >> Get involved.

We've got Michael, who's an Springfield Missouri online. One in Hay Michael. >> Hi, I was going. >> Do an all right, how can we help? >> Right, so I am currently being offered a position

in the company I work for that would require me

to relocate to a much more expensive area.

“I was just calling to see how much should I push for?”

I like the company and I like the position, so I don't want to push too hard and I have it get offered to somebody else, but I also don't want to undersell myself. >> So is this something that you're viewing a salary,

or is it a moving stipend, like how are you viewing the structure of this? >> So I am paid hourly, the relocation costs would all be paid for the company card that I have, so I would use that, you know, pay for the you haul, or losers, or however that's done.

>> But is your hourly wage going to stay the same? >> This Duke and new position. >> That's what I'm asking how much I should ask for, we haven't gotten to the negotiation on the salary would be for it, can I?

>> Do you have a sense of what it is? >> Do you have a sense of what it is? >> So right now I make $42 an hour, and I live pretty comfortably in Springfield. Looking at the area I would be relocating to,

went wise, it looks like it's about $1,000,000, $1,200 more, for about the same rental area. >> But that means groceries are going to be that much more expensive, tires will be that much more expensive, right? There is websites with cost-a-living index,

that you can put in one zip code and it will compare it to another. I don't know them off top of my head, but I've done it before. If you make this much money in this zip code,

“you need to make this much money in that zip code for it to be comparable.”

My bigger question is, what is it about this position? Because it sounds like you're about to cash in on a place where you like living, and you make a great hour, like a really great hour of the wage. What is it about this position?

You're worried about somebody else taking if it's going to move you to a town where you don't know anybody, it's going to be expensive, and you're overall life, this life you're building is going to be of less quality. >> So I really like the company I'm working for.

>> Yeah. >> And this position will just move me up a level in this company. >> Okay. >> It kind of gives me a quick boost in where I have like ranking with the company. >> Okay.

>> So it'll be something there. >> There you go. >> Good. >> Sorry. >> The area is at a very nice area, obviously costs a living.

>> Where is it? >> It's expected to be nice. It is Charleston, South Carolina. >> Okay. >> We have, so when I can see they really get schools there,

but like said it is much more expensive.

“That's the only thing I'm really worried about with this.”

So if I take a quick look, and I would do this if I were you, I would just pull it up, like you could use a comparable, like with John said, or you could, you know, look in chat GPT and see, but just me doing the search for you, if I worked in Springfield, Missouri, and I was making 42 an hour,

if I wanted to move to Charleston, the equivalent would be somewhere around 60 bucks an hour. So you'd go from 87 a year to maybe 133 a year and for cost of living, that's what they're saying is equivalent. This is just one search.

I'm not saying this is the be all in doll. This is just me doing literally 30 seconds of research to try to see. And then from there on, I keep going down the rabbit hole and try to compare that a little bit further to see if you're on point or if you're way off, but that's the type of work

that I'd be doing to try to figure out this number. >> And don't leave it to chance, like actually look up, you've looked up rents, look up restaurants, look up local expenses and actually get real numbers in front of you. But again, I want to go back to my original question.

I didn't ask it good when I first asked it.

My expectation for any company, if you're getting promoted and asked to move across the country, it's going to come with a significant salary change. And so either you haven't asked any questions at all, like you're just kind of flying blind here, or this company's not as great

as you think they are, you understand? >> This was brought up to me yesterday, so we have no. >> Okay, okay. >> I'm trying to be, like have all my notes in line

>> Mine that goes yet.

>> The rules when it comes out, I always ask.

>> Is there a salary range for this position or what's this position going to pay? >> Yeah, it feels farting on the line to not know anything about. >> Exactly. >> Salary.

>> And I'm always cautious when a business comes and says,

“hey, we've identified you for this job, you should take it.”

They're imposing their set of values on your life. You know what I mean? And it may be that you do the math and not only the math, but like we get, I do have just been there. I've wanted to move up in an organization so bad

that I didn't stop and ask myself, what kind of life do I want? And there's places where you'll go, you might ask to say, like, I would love to have this job.

I didn't even love to have this salary,

but I don't want that life. Right, because most companies, man, they, if they're going to pay a lot, they're going to expect a lot. And rightfully so. And so you set to ask yourself, don't want this life.

More than I just, I like this company on a move up this company. But dude, my guess is, if they're asking you to move across the company, they're giving you a promotion. They're eyeing you as a future leader of this place.

It's going to, the money should take care of itself. And if they come back and say, we're going to give you a dollar in our extra, then you're going to take a net financial loss, which I'll even say this, I've taken pay cuts to get to the position I wanted or get to the place I wanted,

because I trusted myself that over the next couple of years, I would get to where I wanted to be financially. And that's worked out for me every time.

But that's not always the case.

And so if you say for two years, I'll take this salary and as a family, we're going to make this sacrifice because it puts me in a position for the next move. That's all fine and good. Just make those decisions clear out.

OK. Is it just you, Michael, or do you have a family? I have my niece that lives with me, and I have my son. OK. Yeah, just to kind of consolidate everything we just said.

The first thing I would do is do a John said.

“I would just ask in a fine way, hey, is there a salary range?”

We've not talked about compensation at all. I just want to get an idea for what that might be. And then you can take that. And yeah, tonight, I would go do some research and look further into it.

And the biggest thing you want to look at because we talked about restaurants. We talked about childcare. Child care, we talked about apartments. But eventually, if this is the job you want, you're going to want to purchase a house.

And again, just a quick search. I can see the cost of living for purchasing a home is significantly higher in Charleston than it is in Springfield. So those are the types of things that you want to just have in your back pocket as you're doing that negotiation.

So you can really feel confident about what you're asking for. And know that you're not asking for something out of just trying to get more money or trying to be greedy or anything like that. But there's a fair basis for what you're asking for. And it actually makes sense.

How old are you, really? I'm 27. OK, 28 this year. Most any supervisor you have when they're promoting you or you're working on it on getting another job somewhere.

It can feel awkward to ask for a dollar amount. A good respectable company, a good respectable leader, a good respectable businessman. We'll know this is just business. And we're making a deal here.

And if somebody looks down on you, because you think you're worth as much, now obviously you can be obnoxious. Yeah, it's a great way off, yeah. But if you say, hey, I've got two kids I'm taking care of. I'm a single dad.

I'm handle and stuff. And this is what I would like. Hold your head up high when you have that conversation.

“If you want to take feedback, but don't go in there with your head down,”

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All right, all right, let's go to Kyle who's in Lake City, Florida, High Kyle. How can John and I help? I wanted to see if y'all could help me put together a plan to clear all of my bit and be on the road to pass the income. I'd love that, but tell me more about the passive income.

Yeah, you said passive income may come on. What do you mean by that? I really would love to own Ramsey property. Okay, got it. Okay, so tell us where you're at today and we'll help you come up with a route to financial peace and wealth.

I just bought a house two weeks ago for $250,000 in Lake City. I do have a little bit of debt, personal loan. It's $5,500. I have a little bit of credit card debt between me and my wife

“surround roughly $7,000 and I think that's all of our debt.”

Okay, what are you guys making? Uh, I'm the only one that works. She says home to the kid. I make around roughly $72, $75,000 here. Okay, and what do you take home currently a month? It differs, as I work so much every time.

But anywhere from, I'd say $4,000 to $3,36, so $42,00. Okay, $36,000, $2,00. That feels a little bit lower. Are you pulling out for investing? Um, I do have a Roth IRA set up for my son and myself. Okay. All righty then. Okay, so I like, I like your goals.

I like the things that you're saying. I like the things that you've already started putting in place, which is I do want to start investing for the future. I, you clearly know that home ownership is an important part of the equation.

“The only thing that I would tweak is the order that we're doing this, so that you can get the”

most bang for your buck, number one, and so that you can really be on a firm foundation as far as your, you know, financial foundation is considered. So keep that in mind as I lay out for you what I would do if I were in your shoes and what I am doing as someone who is, I mean, kind of in your shoes, right?

So the first thing that I would do, um, Kyle, is I would pay off this debt because

as long as you have debt, number one, you have risk in your life, and as long as you're making debt payments, you don't have the full income, your full income at your disposal to use it to build wealth, to use it to buy an income property. Would you agree with that? Correct. Okay. So that is thing one. So let's figure out how can we pay off this debt. Do you have any money saved? I do not. Okay. I'm kind of just, I've drained, drained myself moving into this house.

Got it. Okay. So that would be my first order of business is I got to pay off this debt. I don't have any savings. So I'm actually in a really precarious situation here. No savings, lots of risk. So numero uno is I want to get a thousand dollars saved. We'd call that baby step one around here. I'm going to tell you about seven different steps to get you to where you want to be.

The first step is a thousand dollars saved. It's not the be all end all. You're probably

thinking, Jade, that's not much at all. It's not. It's just enough that if something happens, you know, the car breaks down, you have a flat tire, something pops up that you forgot about. You don't have to use a credit card or go into debt in order to cover it. Okay. So how quickly do you make? Yep. How quickly do you think you could get a thousand dollar saved? Most people do it in 30 days. I currently own two vehicles and I'm trying to fill one of them. So I mean, that would be my emergency fund.

“Okay. How quickly? I mean, how long is the carbon for sale?”

Roughly two weeks. Two weeks. Okay. I like that idea, but I also like you going out and selling something that you can off-load quickly, picking up a part-time job, having kind of a backup plan in case the car doesn't sell in the next two weeks because you need that thousand dollars. And then, if you do that, when that car does sell, you can actually use that to start paying off more of the step. Right? So these cars that you're selling, what will they bring?

I'm trying to sell it for $4,500, but I mean, that's on the low end that I bring three. Okay. And then, what will you drive? I have a trucks. Okay. That's paid off. Yes. Okay. All of our vehicles are paid off. Okay. Great. So offloading this vehicle, working extra,

pay off this debt smallest to largest. So I think I heard you say $5,500 on a personal loan and $7,000 in credit cards. Is it just one credit card for $7,000 or is it multiples? No, there's two credit cards. Okay. So whatever is the smallest one, start with that one. You'll be able to knock it out and maybe some of the next one when you sell this vehicle. But do you see what I'm getting at? Yes. And then once that's done, now we can go to baby step three.

Do you know what it is? No, no. Okay. Three to six months of expenses. And what I mean by that, it's not three to six months of pay checks. It's three to six months

“of what it takes to keep your household operating. So you need to know that number. And if you”

don't know that, you'll figure it out when you do your every dollar budget. We'll make sure you have it before you get off the line. So those are your top three goals. And it's going to take you a couple of months to accomplish that. It's not going to take you all year. I think that you're you've got the money you can go fast on this. But once you've got that, now we start the wealth building phase. Then we can start investing 15% into retirement. We can turn that nozzle back on,

15% of your gross income. End your retirement every single month. You can start with the Roth IRA. If you have access to a 401k through your employer, you can do that. And then at the same time, you can put a little aside for your kids' college. And if you have extra money to throw out the mortgage, you can do that. And that's how we're building wealth. All of those things,

making sure we have savings, which is basically insurance against debt, right? Having that three to six

months, making sure that we're investing in retirement so that when the day comes and we are not able to work anymore, there's money, making sure that we're utilizing the forced savings account, which is the equity in our home, right? And then finally after that, now we can start saving up to

“pay cash for real estate, which is the only way John that we would suggest buying real estate.”

Yeah, homeier. Listen, brother, like the words pass of income, they just give me hemorrhoids now, dude, because it's not real. Like if you ask any landlord, who's truly invested in their properties, it's a hard life, right? And this idea that you're just going to buy something with no money down. I mean, that's what the day went bankrupt. Just going to buy something with no money down. It's and they're just going to make all these payments. Nobody tells you about the roof that goes out

or the air conditioner that fails. And if you've bought something with no money down or 5% down and you're trying to just get the the renter to cover this, nobody tells you about COVID anymore when they suspended rents for a year or more, depending on where you live. Like it's just, it's a recipe for disaster. And so if you save up the money to buy a rental property,

you want to have a, that's a great, that's amazing. And that cash will come in and it will

you'll build up a stock pile of cash to replace the roof and the air conditioner's and whatnot. But it sounds to me like what you need is to start thinking about, is this a career I want or can I work side hustles? Can I work jobs on the weekends? Can I build the career I have to create this extra financial margin? Because the fantasy of, I'm just going to buy a bunch of rental properties and just let them set off to the side and they're going to do their own thing. It's just not for most

people. It's just not real, especially if you're in a place where I'm going to get two or three. And I hear that all the time, but they cash flow. Yeah. And it's like right now, right now they do, or if there's a dip in the market and like I went through in '08, '09, and like selling the house is worth half of what, right? It's just, there's so many variables out there. Absolutely. And it's just this idea that I'm just going to get checks milled to my house.

Like publishers clearing house in the old days is just not real. Yeah, having the right expectations,

“I think going in is so important. I feel like that's what you're laying out. If you think that”

it's going to be easy, you've set yourself up for failure. And not to say, I mean,

there's people out there who do it. Right? There's people who go about that route. But the truth is,

what I laid for out for you is a proven plan. It's a proven structure. It's worked for the last 30 years. I did it. George Campbell did it. John Deloni did it. We've all done it. And it's worked for us. And not only that, but we talked to folks every day. And we see the results of that plan. It's seven steps. And I didn't get to the last one. The last one is you finally have no debt no payments. You're able to live and give like no one else. And so if you follow the structure

Kyle or anybody who's listening, if you follow this, you're going to become a person who is a financial responsible adult. You're going to build wealth. Right? The time is going to pass anyway. You're going to build that wealth. You're going to have peace. You're going to have freedom in your finances. And this is the way to do it. This is the way to do it with the least amount of risk and the least amount of friction and the most amount of control over your actual money.

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All right John, let's get into it because what some people don't realize is that wills are so important. If you don't have a will you better get one because here's some of the information that people don't realize about wills. They're not about your age or how much stuff you have. That is the number one thing that people say to me. I don't need a will. I don't have that much stuff or I don't need a will. I'm not old. Guys, if you're an adult with people you love,

if you have kids, if you have pets, if you have anything that you want handled a certain way, you need a will. It gives your family clear direction when they need it the most. So if you're ready to create one, I want you to go to mama bear legal.com. That's where I made my will with San Warsaw. And if you're a person who's like, hey, I don't know if I need a will. I'm just not really sure where to start. I want you to text the word quiz to the number three, three, seven, eight, nine.

Okay, text quiz to three, three, seven, eight, nine. And we'll help you figure out which option fits your

situation. And I want to speak to this, what you just said a second ago, like, I don't have that much

stuff. Just imagine you're 21 and you're in your first apartment and you have a guitar that you like and even you thought, I'm gonna give my guitar to my buddy. What if I die, I've given it to my buddy. Cool. But I want you to understand if you something was to happen, you're getting a car. Something got awful happens, right? And your mom goes up to the apartment and says, I want to get in there and get my daughter's clothes or my son's clothes. Thank you. You're going to say no. You don't have

the legal right to this stuff. We got to give it to the state and then your family has to go fight the state for that photo of your grandparents. It's in it's as simple as getting online with

“mom and bear wheels. Again, when we move from Texas to Tennessee, that's what I went to mom”

bear wheels and made a wheel just until I got covered till I got here and it's good to sit down with a state person. But like, so this is something that Jade not has used is what I've used. But it's something that's simple. It doesn't cost hardly anything and you can just so that your mom can walk up, your dad can walk up and get your stuff. And if you've got kids, you've got pets, got help you, dude. Like, man, you gotta have protection for your family. It's just a way of saying,

I love you when you can't say it yourself anymore. And go get a wheel. There's no reason to not have a wheel. I agree. I'm so glad you said that because it's so true. I said it in the little read here, but it's true. That's the number one thing is people say, I don't have anything that's important. And if you just stop and think about the people who are important to you,

“that's the extra size. Think about the people who are important to you and how much you value”

little things, a cookbook, a piece of jewelry, that pair of shoes, like whatever it is, there are things that you value about other people. They're the little things I can tell you. And I know you feel, it's the little things that when you receive them, you're like, oh, I love it. Or maybe it's maybe it's not stuff. Maybe it's not even a piece of jewelry. It is giving your folks, your older sister, your younger brother, let them go to your apartment and pack your

things up as part of the healing process. Right. And I know it sounds so morbid. But give them the grace that they don't have to go fight some faceless, nameless bureaucrat or some apartment owner, or some rental house owner for an opportunity to grieve. Like, just get a wheel done. I don't care who you are. Get a wheel done, man. I agree. All right. Yes. My son's not 16. I mean, he's 16. He's not 18. He has a long written out. Here's, you know what I mean to give to me. And when he turns 18,

I'll be able to first things we do is I want you to take ownership of this. And, you know,

we should have said this too. If you have children, you're tripping. If you don't have a wheel, because that is just, if you don't have a wheel and you have children, the state will decide

if you're married with kids, is if you hate your spouse and kids. Man, I know that's right. That's,

that's the only reason to not have one. Yeah. Okay. Get a wheel. Get a wheel. All right. We've made you feel guilty. We know. I'm not trying to make forget. I'm just saying like, there's just no, there's just no guilty. It's a guilty. It's a guilty. It's a guilty. 100%. All right. Let's go to the phone lines where we have Madison and Denver, Colorado. Hey, Madison, how can we help? Hi, guys. Thank you

“so much for taking my call. I'm a longtime listener and big fan. Thanks for calling. What's up?”

So I am wondering if my husband and I are morally obligated to give these sisters $5,000 to pay a retainer for a lawyer. Why would you be morally obligated to piece someone else's legal fees,

Madison? So little backstory. She got into the relationship about two years ago,

married the man despite all of our families warnings. As a six month old baby with him and he is emotionally and mentally abusive. And so she was kind of having conversations with us about wanting to make him because of the abuse that was occurring. And, you know, in one of those heated family moments, you know, my husband said, you know, if you need money, like, we'll help you out. Like, we're help you. We're not going to let you fall on your face. That was kind of the backstory of the

conversation that was had. And then yesterday, she came to my husband asking for $5,000 to pay the retainer. You know, I think, initially, I think it's worth about the money. We're in a good spot. We're in baby steps four or five and six. I think his family knows that we do pretty well financially. And we're kind of getting pressure from other family members about, you know, hey, you should give

“you should give her the money. And I think, initially, I was on board for that. I didn't think”

it would be $5,000. But also, I thought that there was going to be behavior change associated with this. And since she has left them, I mean, it's been pretty erratic spending. She got back into alcoholism a little bit and part of me just really feels in my soul that this is a bad choice. Okay. And I was going to say that. And this is no, this is no gacha by any means. But the way you laid out the question, let me know that you already didn't want to do it because no one frames up giving as a moral obligation.

If they already kind of know, it's not a moral obligation. So when you said that I was like, she doesn't want to give this money. She's got a good reason. I already knew that you were going to get to that. I think you know, it's not a moral obligation for you to do this. The question is, do you want to do this? That's question one. Do you want to do this? Is this a need that you feel like you want to meet? I think is the question that I'd ask. And there's part of this,

Madison, that I, I want to take them, even though they're the people that you would be helping or enabling decided on how you want to view this. I want to take them out of the subject for a moment, John. Tell me if I'm wrong here. When I look at, go ahead. Let me lay it out. When I look at this, I see people that you love and people that you love struggling, right? And so,

“yeah, it's hard to watch people that you love struggling. So part of the question you have to ask yourself is,”

is it going to be harder for me to watch them struggle and go to sleep every night knowing? Man, they're struggling. Maybe I should have helped. Maybe I shouldn't have helped. Is that going to be more of a soul tax on you or is it going to be more of a soul tax to be like, I can help in some way. Let's decide what that helpful way is and put a boundary around it and be wise there. And then while I sleep better at night if I do that thing, and then I'm not watching them

struggle in the same way. That's kind of what I go through in my mind. And I think that that could be a helpful way to think through it for you and kind of remove them in their drama from the situation for a moment. All that's in complexity, is that cool medicine? Because I know this is already a simple enough issue in your home, right? To me, there's two separate issues going on here. And I'd have to think through, fill a sock. I'd have to go down a rabbit hole and get all

morose and sit in my room with my dark lamps and think about this. The word moral obligation, okay. My impulse here, so just take this as for what it is. My bias, my gut instinct here. This has nothing to do with her. And this has everything to do with, I think all of us have a

moral obligation to help kids. Yeah. Okay. So my first impulses forget this adult who's misbehaving,

who we told or don't get with this guy. That's clouding this whole issue. Right now you got a kid, your niece or nephew is in an abusive household and I'm coming guns ablaze and for the kid. Right. Yeah. And so I'd have to sit down and say, is that moral, this, who knows?

there. Now, the second thing that seems like it's clouding it is, can I just, I'm going to be

“crashed. Okay. I'm just going to say it. And I might over, overstate my case a little bit. You don't like her.”

Right. You don't like his dysfunctional family telling you what to do. You don't like that. Suddenly, you want to do something nice and now it's on you. And your husband's the one who said, "Well, help you and do whatever." So he laid it out. If this was me in my house, I would not write her one penny. I would maybe commit to paying the attorney fee directly. Yes. So good, John. And I'm not going to borrow any money. She's not going to only think back,

but I'm going to have some stipulations on the safety of this kid. And if I'm going to get involved that way. Hey. This is Dr. John Deloni. Sleep is a huge deal to me because better sleep means better health. And if you've been losing sleep or waking up, twist it up and soar because of some old thin gross mattress that wasn't designed with you in mind, I want you to start caring more about your sleep and your mattress too. When it comes to mattresses, I love Helix mattresses. They make

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“Alright, let's get right back into it where we have Andy who's in Rochester, Minnesota. What's up, Andy?”

Oh, not too bad. How are you guys doing all right? How can we help today? I may have created a savings monster out of my husband and he is just anxious that we aren't saving enough for retirement and I feel like we are and I feel like we're in a good spot where we can time it pull back a little bit. Okay, let's do something that's very culturally out of step. Okay? For you and your husband, let's stop feeling for a second

and let's just look at math because investments of math problem. It's a number. So when you say I feel like we have enough and he says I feel like we don't have enough,

you're always going to be at an impasse because you're expecting your bodies to solve a problem.

“They weren't designed to solve. What's the math you're all dealing with right now?”

So over the last couple of years, we paid off over 400,000. Wow. Yeah, so we didn't have that, I know it's been kind of wild. Is that including a mortgage? No, that does not include a mortgage, that doesn't loan a car. Girlfriend, this is a very exclusive club that you're in, way to go. Yeah, so we just kept that intensity and just you're all the money we were at debt into investing because we're like, we don't have kids, we're free wheeling it though. Wow.

So what do you currently have in investing? About $1 million. Wow. Wow. Wow. Okay.

And now that we have two kids, it would be great not to live off of like 3,200 a month and just have a little more to live off of. What do you all both like, what's your combined take home income? About 180. Okay. Okay. And how old are you guys? So I am 32 and my husband is 42. Oh, my gosh. And he's concerned that you're not going to have enough money for retirement. How much, how much does he think that you need for retirement? Does

he have a number in his mind or is it an ever-moving goal post? It seems to be an ever-moving goal post. He's like, I want to create general generational wealth for our kids. I don't want our kids ever worry about having to care for us. Uh-huh. Well, if he keeps on this pace, he's not going to have to worry about that because they're not going to know him and they're not going to

clear goal. I want to have 33 million dollars. I want to have 25 million dollars. I want to have 15, right?

He can say what he wants in a complete way. Do you know what I mean? Versus it being, I don't know when we'll get there, but we got to get there. Because he's chasing a feeling, I want to say something and I want Jade to push back if I'm wrong. Okay. Are you ready? Uh, ready for this, Andy? Jade,

“I have a struggle and there's a personal struggle because I've made this mistake. I think is”

a mistake in my own house. When I'm married, we have goals for what we want our life to look like now and down the road. Right. I don't get to have my own investing goal that my wife that I drag my wife behind the back of my truck with, right? In vice versa, she can't have, I have a goal to spend this much money every month, regardless of what's down the journey. Yeah, you got to meet in the middle somewhere. There you go. So, Andy, he has a goal for what he wants the future to look

like, which is an imaginary goal, right? It's based on a gut feeling and you all have to sit down and create where you all want to be, right? Because if he has a goal of generational wealth and you have a goal of relational wealth, you want your kids to have these wild fun memories with the two of you, when they think of their dad and their office college, they want a smile real big and they can't wait to come home and hug his neck. Like, those things are going to be incompatible

at some point, right? So, we have to say, what is that going to look like in the present tense

“and in the future? You and I'm saying? Yeah. So, let's put some numbers around this in a way that I think”

you can bring this to him and make sense and know that you've done your homework. Okay? So, I hear what you're saying and I agree with you. I think at this point, with the money that you've earned with the debt you've paid off and the wealth that you've built. Yeah, I think that there might be some pulling off of the gas pedal that you can do. That being said, let's pretend you did it

the Ramsey way and you only invested 15 percent. I don't know. It sounds like maybe you're investing

more than 15 percent is that true? Yeah, we're probably closer to 40. 40. Okay, and that's that's outrageous. So, let me just let's bring this to your husband, what's your husband's name? Andy? His name's Andy too? Yeah, we're Andy Squirt. Oh, your house is awesome. Now wait, what's saying? Okay. Andy's, you already have a million dollars in retirement. Let's pretend that you just continue to contribute 15 percent, right? So, around 2200 bucks a month, maybe you did 3,000 bucks a

month and you're only in your 30s, 30 and 32, I think I heard you say. So, let's say at the age of retirement, let's say you let this grow until age 662. Do you understand that that's 33 million dollars? I know, I have ram the numbers, but I feel like she needs to hear it from someone other than me. Have you shown it to him on it? Have you shown it? I don't like it. And then when you say, when you say, okay, here's the math. How much money do you think based on your math?

Do we need to retire comfortably and build generational wealth? Challenge him on that level based on your math? Not your feelings? Show me the math that you believe the numbers that we need. So, what we can understand this on a numerical level? Not just a feelings level, because you disagree on feelings. You feel one way he feels another way, but we can all agree on math because math

“doesn't lie, right? Yeah. So, that's what I would do. And then I would kind of be a little”

strong on, I believe that 33 million is enough. That's pretty generational. I think that's

pretty generational. And if you want to build it out further and say, you know, if at this age, this is assuming we don't make any more money, you can go more into the depths if you want to. But I also think there's something else here, Andy. It's tell me if I'm reading between the lines here, okay? And I'm happy to be wrong. There's also a part of this you miss your husband. Yeah, I mean, he works so hard and we do have a lot of fun and, you know, his job allowed us

to travel the country, but it's like, those are work trips. Those are work trips. Well, we actually go with them, his work pays for us to go with. But he's working. It's not a family vacation. And so what I'm saying is at some point, you need to sit down and say, I feel like an accessory to the life that you want to live. We get to go along on the trips and what you're working me and the kids are we're forming like parallel lives. You and I'm saying, yeah, and that's

the conversation beneath the dollar amount. I miss you. I want to build something with you. I don't want to be along for the ride of whatever it is you're building and doing. Yeah. By the way, we're not, we're talking 30 million dollars. That's not enough then. I mean, we'll give up today.

work hard. He's scared to death. He's reading the every headline in the world saying that it's all

coming down. I get that he's just trying to go do what he can control, which is I'm going to make as much money as I can. I totally get that impulse. But the conversations A is, it's a math problem. And y'all are going to be more than fine, barring some wild incident. And if there is some wild incident, you know what, we'll deal with that then. But beneath that is, y'all have two kids, you'll have a different life now. And we have to rebuild our marriage the way we want to build it.

And right now, it sounds like you're living the life that he's held bent on creating. And that's a lonely place to live. Even if you get to go on cold trips, but you don't get to do trips together.

“You got him saying? Yeah. Am I right or am I off? No, I think you're right. I think he's just so”

anxious because both of its parents have literally nothing and we support. We're also supporting them in their retirement. And it, you know, he just doesn't ever want to put our kids in that position. It hasn't taken anything away from. It sounds like being able to help them hasn't taken away from your ability to invest 40% every month. You know, I think you guys really, I think there is a strong difference between what's happening in reality and what it feels like. And I think

you guys need to spend a lot of time looking at John, I feel like I'm taking your content here, but looking at the facts. Just look at facts. Yeah. And a definition of anxiety is I'm going to go to the future and find potential problems and drag it. Those problems into the present, try to solve them. You can't. You can't. You all have done such an amazing job. Keep saving,

keep being generous, but also live and enjoy your lives. And feel content for once. You can never

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“studio continuing to take your calls. We've got Jessica on the line from Dallas, Tejas. What's”

a Jessica? Jessica, you there? Hi, can you give him? Yeah, yeah. What's up? Hey, Jason John. Thanks so much for taking the call. What's up? I need your help making a decision. My husband and I are very in the size seven. So we need you all to tell us what to do. And fortunately, we're good at telling you what to do. Well, thank you. Unfortunately, my husband lost his job last week. Oh, no. And was laid off. Yeah. Thanks to the ramsey plant plant, though, we're in good shape. Okay. But we do

have an upcoming trip to Hawaii coming in October. I'm just kind of stuck. I feel I'm not sure if we should go or not. Just in that. Let's take it. We'll get to the emotional park because that's big.

Let's be, be, crash and just talk math. So if you all have no debt and you have a million dollars

in cash in the bank, that was, that was dumb. If you have a quarter million dollars in the bank, and this trip is going to cost 10 grand, that's one thing. If you all are newly debt free and but you still have your mortgage and it's going to be pretty tight, that's the different thing. All right. So where are you all financially? So we are debt free except for our mortgage. Okay.

definitely just our sending money and boarding our dogs. So I'm thinking around $3,000 for those two things.

Okay. I work. So I bring home around $5600 a month. Okay. And my husband is actually he's being paid through August and then in September he's receiving a lump sum settlement of $40,000 for taxes. Okay. So he's getting $40,000. What other emergency funds do you have? We have 21,000 and like the designated emergency fund. And then we have about 25,000 and various other sinking funds for things that we would be able to access, you know, in the case of a

emergency or, you know, if we're really in a bond. And the biggest part of this is you're income the $5,600 a month. Can your household run on $5,600? I mean, I know it might not have

all the bells and whistles, but can you guys live on that without having to touch other money?

Uh, I mean, if we went back to how we lived in baby step two, we come. Well, that's what I mean, by not all the bells and whistles. Yeah. You could pay the mortgage, pay the, you know, keep everything running. You may not be able to take as many vacations, may not do as much shopping or eating out, right? But everything can keep going on the $5,600? Uh, I mean, realistically, it's around 75, 100, but if I needed to, I could walk that. We could walk

“that back even more. I think you should do that regardless with a job loss. Yes.”

And here's why there's, there's the math problem part, but there's also the, like you, you're in a big storm. And so I would, it's a thing you could control when things feel like they're out of control. And so just the exercise of you and him sitting down, saying, okay, our lives have changed drastically for this season. Let's control. One thing we can't control is how much we go out. And one thing we can, and it helps you metabolize this loss. And it's a loss. Getting laid off.

I don't know where's a loss, right? And you can't control when the next job is going to hit. That's right. He's going to get a new job. We just don't know when and going back to the trip, especially going back to that Hawaii trip. I appreciate that the flights and everything like that are paid for, but I, and I don't think that the trip is going to change your life if you go or if you don't go. But if you choose to go, which I think is probably okay. I would. Yeah. I don't think you're going to enjoy the trip.

If you haven't done the math that John and I are talking about. If you don't feel good knowing hey, we can exist on the 5600. We did it before we'll do it again. This is how we'll do it. We've already looked at the plan. I think if you know all of that, then you'll be able to go and you'll actually be able to relax on the beach. Yeah. And I also don't, you all are in the grief stage here. It's like if you lose somebody close to you, there's that sense when it happens.

I'm never going to laugh again. Like the thought of doing something fun down the road seems absurd.

“The truth is you'll set yourself up. You've already paid for 90% of this trip. You're going to have”

a hundred thousand dollars cash between the 40 grand that you get paid and your emergency funds and sinking funds. You're all going to be okay financially. It's but don't make a decision right this second in that smoke in that haze of grief on something three or four or five months away from now. Sure. That makes sense. What's his prospects look like for getting another job? I mean, he started looking, you know, the day that it happened, he does have a interview

this week already. He was really off about six, five or six years ago and it did take about seven months for him to find something and so. Okay. What was that like for him? What was that like? Forget the money part of it. What was it like in your home with a guy who's been searching for seven months? Yeah, not fun. Okay. It's exactly right. I recommend to any of my buddies who get laid off to go get a something job. Yeah. Go do something and be hustling all the time to get interviews

and all that kind of stuff and a something job will let you go. Right. I'm not talking about something that's going to cage you up from eight to five. I'm talking about just go get a job.

“Something you have to get up. You have to shave. You have to shower. You have to get up and go”

move. Say hi to people and it just helps you walk a little taller and when you have those interviews you're a different version of yourself because you're productive. You're contributing to your house. You're doing a thing. You go and I'm saying. So even if even if you said, I need you to go make $2,000 a month.

benefit to him and his side of his own skin and side of his own house and side of his own marriage that's

going to be way more important than that $2,000 bucks he brings home. Right. Because then you know, hey no matter what I've still got this what $86,000 bank you know in the bank. I've still got savings. We're still keeping our normal lifestyle going. I'm just looking for a job. There's not he's going to feel pressure but there's not the same financial pressure writing on it every single day and that that does show up in interviews and that does show up and how you show up to these

opportunities. And let's go to this y'all of kids. We have one. Yeah. Okay. Hold. 12 12 perfect. I have a vivid vivid memory of an older man at my church who got laid off from his corporate exec job. The following week he became the church's janitor and he did that for a year. He was there on Wednesday nights until late. He was there on Saturdays, cleaning up the building. I'm going to go do something and then he got paid piddens. But in that year he began to ask himself

what's important, what's the math on this, once the emotion that that just heartbreaking getting laid off. And he went and got a teaching certificate and became a teacher. And I remember seeing him at the at the at the fair to go get a teaching job and he changed his whole life. But that as a

“young person that was instilled in me is, oh, that's what men do and you get laid off. You go do the next”

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“Sarah's in New York, New York, what's up, Sarah? I think for some thank you for taking my call.”

I have a job offer on the table that I have not accepted because they're they're the caveat for buying a car. So I currently make 85,000 when I started we were in a commission base where we got not just under 35,000 when we were hit in plan. The new position is a 140 base and they're guaranteeing

the salary for a year, so first year's going to be 170. So my cars are paid off, but they're my

cars call if I want a 2023 or newer. And they're giving 750 a month for the car, but I don't I don't have enough to buy something that's not new. What is it, is it a, are they asking you to buy new cars because for, they've done some sort of matrix algorithm for reliability or is this the quality. It's a sales job itself. So I would need to put customers in my car. They are not offering

My 2014 is not going to be cutting it. How long will they pay you 750 a month? That is, and that

is the entire time you work there. Everybody gets that amount, whether your cars pay off or not, and it also covers maintenance that are turned somewhat not. So I did some math. I can get a payment a fur under 300 a month. So obviously, it's no no, but it's still taking out. Yeah. Yeah, my, I have a very, I remember the heartbreaking conversation between a buddy who took an executive job that came with a car, like him all the stuff. And when things got tied at the company,

“the first thing that went was car stipends. That is my worry. I mean, I have, I remember that”

conversation because I was like, oh, you should probably not work there anymore. Not because of,

just if they're going to tell you, here's what we're going to pay you, and suddenly they start

taking off dollars and cents, and then say, you know, no, that was a perk. That's not a place I trust. So anyway. So let's, let's think through this four second. So is it just you or, your husband too, or might have been as well, but we have two young kids. So she's mostly home. He's bringing in maybe 700 on the side. It's not a ton. Both are kids are too young for preschool. They'll tell me if we, we saved on daycare. Tell me about your current vehicles. What do you

have right now? Um, 2014, Chevy Malibu, 2017, Hyundai, Sonata, 2017. Okay, and two small cars, nothing crazy. Uh-huh. And are they paid off or you're still working to pay them off? Yeah, fully paid off. Um, neither of them are worth more than a couple grand able to have high mileage. Okay. So what I'd be looking for, what I'd be thinking about, um, when does this job start by the

“way? When do you have to, what's the timeline here? I have, I have to accept my Friday. Oh,”

very well. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Let's start until October. So I do have a little bit of time, and we do have a thinking fund for a quarter, it's about three thousand. Three thousand. Right now.

Okay. I could potentially get something. I just don't know. Yeah. Here's what I'd be,

here's what I'd be noodling around with my husband to see if, if we want to do this. I'd be looking, uh, you said it's got to be a 2023. Was there a mileage thing on it or just needed to be a 2023 mileage requirements? Okay. Kind of like a, like a small to mid side. I see if they want to be able to fit, um, enough customers in the car. So it's like, like, they want, like four seats minimum. Four seats minimum. Four seats minimum can see their no-coop. The, you know, yeah.

Okay. So I'd be scouring the interwebs for what that is, and it can have high mileage.

“And you can get it at a deal. And over time, if you wanted it, and this is, if you want to do this”

deal, uh, then at that point, your paying cash for something and they're paying you a stipend 750 a month. You're not going into a car note. I know a would go into debt or a car note to do this. I apologize. Because they are a, I don't know who this company is, but I guarantee you they have millions and millions and millions and millions of dollars. And for some strange reason, they're putting $30,000 of risk on you. And that's just not okay with me. That bothers me.

Because I'm like, you've got the money. Why are you putting the risk on little low me, right? So I certainly would not go into debt over this. But if you're thinking, hey, we can cash flow this and for me to make $170,000 a year instead of 85 is a good deal. And everything else looks good. That would be my only caveat is, let me go on auto trader or wherever I can find a, let me find something from 2023 that fits the seating requirements. That's got a ton of miles on it that I can

drive for a little while. That's not costing me an arm and a leg because they're out there. And let me see price that out and see, okay, I've already got $3,000. Can I find anything for 8 or 10? Or between now in October. Can we now in October? I'm even okay, if you all are on babysitter too, if you all want to pause and stack cash. And yeah, we, I mean, we've pretty much paid off every, we have like 5,000 left. I'm going to cards. Okay. We have a good chunk that we've been dropping.

I'm okay if you all want to pause and just say, okay, from now from August until October, can we put aside several grand a month? Can we get there? And I like, change, like, finding a nice use Toyota use Lexus, like with real high miles on it, you can get a deal. Yeah, I'm looking. I've seen a couple of things on here that that might be possible. And have a plan that in one year that car rolls over to your husband who's driving the kids around and you'll have saved up

enough to buy yourself another nice car. Okay. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Yeah, there's a really cool. Go on kbb.com and you can find the 10 best use SUVs under $10,000. And I think that's a really

super important. Somebody is somewhere in a back room made the case. You know what? Let's make them

“hold the note. Let's make them hold the depreciating asset. It's better for us to make them go”

by their own tools and we'll just we'll give them this much dollar amount because we don't want to deal with it. And anytime somebody says that, fine, they get to do that. But what they're saying is you deal with it. And you got to look out for you because they're looking out for their best interest. So you get to look out for your best interest. And in this case, certainly not taking on the debt. I do believe if you took October as the start date. And two people, you and your

husband got in a room and just decided what must be true for us to come up with this dollar amount

by here. You all can figure that out. Yeah. Whether that's if we got a call and made it come over and

watch the kids because I'm going to up my work hours. He's going to work up his hours. We're going to just go bananas between now and October. We're going to go baby step two lightnings. I don't know. I'm just making something up. But like take debt off the table because I think everybody in the planet would say that's a good deal. It's not that big of a deal. I'll plus I'm going to get a stipend. I'm not going to think about it. But man, I cannot get that experience out of my head.

No, I think I think what you're saying is right. And I do think that sometimes when folks are on baby step two, they get tunnel vision on being on baby step two. And I can't do anything

“else but pay off debt. But the truth is, if you're going through a job switch, that is a bit of”

a storm mode situation where we would say, hey, this is a major life changer. You're relocating, you're changing your job. That is a time that we would tell you to pause the baby steps anyway to get your life. And so this makes sense. There are times, let me pull up another example. Obviously when we talk about paying off debt, we're like, do the debt snowball method, right? List them smallest to largest. But we also say, hey, if you can get out of your car and if you can

sell your vehicle today, that might not be the smallest debt. But if you can sell it to get right side up, right? So there's times where you need to look at it more critically. Yeah, and go, okay, what is it that I'm actually trying to do here? I'm trying to pay off debt. It is a good deal for her to take a job for 170,000 when she's currently making 85. So if that means we have to pause for a second in order to get the debt gum job, that makes sense. So that's just,

I don't know, sometimes I feel like we can get a little forced for the trees. What's that? Yeah, we start staring at the trees when this is forced. Yeah, so there's nothing, you're not doing the wrong thing by pausing the baby steps temporarily so that you can get this car so that you can get the job. Get the job. [Music]

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you move toward financial freedom, not just park your cash. Go to fairwins.org/RAMsey to open your smart bundle and start making progress today. That's fairwins.org/RAMsey, insured by the NCUA. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Let's go straight to Sharon, who's in Jacksonville, Florida, Hi Sharon, you're on the line. Hi, I have a really interesting question. I am going through the four

after a long time 26 years. And I'll be walking away with having to pay equity that's in our home of $375,000. And so I haven't been in had any major debt in a long time. So I'm trying to figure out

Oh my gosh, what's it worth? It's worth $9.50. Oh, okay. But the news, I was thinking about doing a cash

out refi, but the new interest rates are 6.277. Yeah. Yeah, that's the world you find yourself in. What is it about this house that you want to hang on to? I mean, I've been living here for 15 years. And I know I don't think I would want to rent. Sure. Well, you wouldn't have to rent. Yeah, if you sold it for 900, you pay off your 90 and you're done to just, I'm just going to do easy math. You're done 800, you paid the $375. And now you've got after realtor fees, you've got

400 grand cash to go do whatever you want. Right, but then it's not going to buy another house and I might have to buy that these new market rates. Yes. Where you go right and check for the fanciest

condo in the block and you don't have yard maintenance or house maintenance or anything like that.

And I want to hold, I want to halt real quick before we go forward because I think that this is going to be really important to have this mindset going through this conversation. Things are going to change. Yeah. You're divorced. Now, that's a huge change. So having a changed interest rate is probably one of the smaller changes that you're going to experience, right? So I want you to approach the conversation knowing that there's a lot that's going to change. Interest rates is kind of

“far for the course on this. So here's what it makes sense. Everything in your old life is over.”

And so and that's hard to metabolize, especially if you didn't ask for this divorce, if you didn't want it and it's been thrown on you, or if you did ask for it and you just wanted to keep your regular life just minus your marriage, everything is different now. And I see a lot of folks want to hang onto their house because it's where they've lived forever. It's where the kids are. I want to try to keep a semblance of my old life while also dealing with this huge gizm. And I guess what

I want to tell you, Jason, trying to tell you the life you had is over. And if part of your new life includes this house great, we'll help you get there, but it is going to come at a significant cost. Things are going to be different. What does your take home income for a year? Yeah, about 200,000. Okay. So you're doing great, financially. Yeah, I can afford it. I haven't had debt in so long. We'll major debt. Only debt I really

have is $30,000 remaining on a vehicle loan. I know how you love vehicle loans. So that has $30,000 less. I got $550 and TSP, 100,000 in a Roth IRA, 96,000 in a moody, and that's

“$50,000 cash. Wow, great job. Yeah, you're doing great. I really think that I think what John said”

is really true and take some moments to think about that. If you end up keeping this house, you do the cash out refine, you refinance at current rates, 15 year fixed rate. Yeah, you're going to have a higher interest rate, but you're going to get to keep your house. So there's the trade-off, right? You're deciding this is worth doing that action, right? So you do that trade-off or your other option is, you know what? Yeah, fresh start sounds good. I'm going to take my cash.

My $3,75, my $400,000. Maybe I'll see if I can find something in cash that fits my needs. Maybe I will rent for a season, save up a little bit with it, and then do something in cash, or maybe I'll use it as a down payment on what I want, right? Those are the options. All of them are a trade-off in some former fashion, and your choice gets to be gets to truly be which one

“do I want. And I think that if you can frame it like I get to choose, that's kind of cool. It's not”

being forced on me. I think that's a good mindset to try to approach this. I've been married 24 years, and I'm trying to put myself in your seat. I think the last thing I would want to do is walk back into that house. But that's just me, and everybody's different, but I would want a completely clean slate if this was happening this way. How long do you have? How long do you have before he

needs to get the $3,75, $3,75,000 payout? Except number first. So I did start the process of a cash

every five. Of course, I'm not necessarily down to it, but do you want to have what basically be a $450,000 mortgage at six and a quarter? Yeah, I know. That's the thing. It's like a lot of me just knowing that we're already down to 90,000. I know who paid off and have the lowest interest rate ever and now paying five times. I mean, that's a great. That is something 100% sharing degree because that's tough to internalize. Just hearing you say it. That is something

like it's kind of ripped out from under you. That I mean, hearing you say it makes me sad for you.

But if a thing you found yourself wanting or heading towards and this was a light at the end

“of the tunnel was freedom, this financial freedom versus a $900,000 house. Then if you want to”

pursue freedom, then take a sell the house, take the $3,75 plus some cash you have in reserves, and take out a $100,000 mortgage by a $500,000 house and have it paid off in a year or two. Right. And it's going to be a different house and it's not going to be as big, but you can get a smaller house that's still about all the amenities on the inside for half a million dollars. And you're taking out a much smaller loan than four and a half, you know what I mean?

You're 90 plus this 375 at a high interest rate. It just depends on what kind of life you want

moving forward. Yes, Sharon, how old are you? 54. 54. Here's what I would do. We're talking a lot of

concepts and ideas. What I would do tonight is I would go and I would look in my area and I'd say, "Okay, what's it cost for my needs as they are today? What do I need? What is it that I want? Write that down on paper. What do I want in a home?" And then start looking and seeing what is that cost. And then it's now let's start putting some closer numbers to the math. Okay, if I sell this, if I get what I want for the house, after I give them the cash out, after closing, after fees,

what realistically would I take home and put some real numbers around that? And then think, okay, this annuity, I could probably take some of that money, take some that 96,000 and add it to my down payment. It's not a wonderful investment anyway, so it'd be better invested in a piece of real estate. And so you've got options here. I think if you put a little bit more due diligence to the actual numbers, I think you're going to come out with what John was saying, which is how to get to that

same place of peace, financial peace, financial freedom that you were, you had before it's just going to look a little different. And while you're doing that math, ask yourself, like, look at a blank sheet of paper and ask yourself, what kind of life do I want to have now? Probably the most common conversation I have with folks who are going through divorce or just on the other side of divorce is parsing through, like I said earlier, like I'm trying to hang on to the old life I

had, drive the same cars, live in the same neighborhood, and there's something powerful about

“exhaling and just getting real real sad. That life is over. And now I'm in the driver's seat of what”

comes next, what kind of life do I actually want to have? And that's when you ask yourself the things about yard maintenance, and you may love them on the lawn, you may love doing flowers. And so that's going to be cool. You may say, you know what? I've hated doing the lawn. And in this new life at 54, I'm basically control all deleting. I don't want that. I want to do something else. And so it, but it gives you space when you realize, oh, I'm trying to hang on to little shards of my

whole life and just say, and uh, and in that process, if you say, here's the life I want to create now at 54 by myself. I got a killer income. I got lots of resources in margin. I've worked my butt off over the last 25 years to give myself this margin. And you say, no, I want this house. I love this house. I want my grandkids to come grow up in this house. Then awesome. That's going to come at a cost. All like Jade Jade what you said is perfect. All of these decisions come

with trades. And instead of making the trades from a place of weakness, make them from a place of, this is the life I want to have. And then I'm going to make trades in that direction. As your business grows, everything becomes more complex. There was a time when Ramsey Solutions had too many disconnected systems and not enough visibility across the business.

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“All right, my friends, the truth is we want to hear from you guys. So go ahead and jump in the”

comments. If you watch the show on YouTube or on Spotify, jump in the comments, and let us know which thing about what connected you to the show, what connected to you about today's show. Why can't I talk today, John? What connected with you about today's show? That's what I'm trying to say.

I'm a good looking guy and it has that effect on people. What? Never mind.

She's like, hey, decked. What do you say? No, I don't try them out. Okay, yeah, get in the comments. We want to hear, but don't be mean. I see with some of y'all right in these comments. I'm not going to name any names, but I know who the trolls are. Just letting you know. Okay, let's go to Caleb who's in St. Louis, Missouri. What's up, Caleb? Hey, good morning, our afternoon guys. I'm just pleasure to bring on the show. I'll get right to my point. I make $95,000 a year. I'm working

on 13, 14, 15, sometimes hours a day to try and get my family out of $60,000 of debt. That's credit cards and just for management on my part. My wife and I have about their expect our six child and we're going to have seven total. Yes. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, that story 10 years ago. I was single and a guy who I knew from my church called me and said, hey, I got this daughter. I think you guys would hit it off and I want you guys to marry and have a bunch of kids and 10 years

later here we are. So my question for you guys is, I'm trying to knock out my debt so I can start building my wealth and my question is, can I and my wife by the time we're retired, I'm 40, she's 32, be millionaires following your principles. I want to knock it out of the park like Aberpoolos, hey, why not for Brad Lidge. John, well, I'm talking about that. Why you got to bring that up? Why, why, why if you talk about that? Oh, because you're from St. Louis. I'm from St. Louis, man,

“come on. I hope that's true. I remember that home run and that ball hasn't landed yet.”

He hit that ball so far. Holy. And it's okay to admit, did you cry that day? This is what happened. All right, let's get to it. No, you can't be a millionaire. You've ruined it. Conversation over. I'm just kidding. I'm fully kidding. Okay, so let's, let's, let's write it back a little bit. So just make sure I heard you write 95,000 years what you're making. Obviously your wife is home with these beautiful babies and you've got $60,000 in debt. Have you done the calculation?

When are you going to be debt free based on today's numbers? So I was debt first of this year.

Oh, I'm sorry, can you guys first of this year? Yeah, first of this year, I was at $60, I'm down now, the $25,000 in debt. I'm hoping to knock it out by Christmas. Oh, you're already down to $25,000. Okay, so Christmas day. Wow, Christmas day you're done.

“I love that for you. And then how long do you think it'll take you to save up three to six months?”

How much is three to six months for you? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, uh, get somewhere where we can hear you clearly. There you go, now you're back. Okay, sorry guys. I'm not moving. I'm sorry. Yeah, I'm, I would say it's part of going to take you after Christmas probably about three to four months to get my six months of income saved. Okay, good. And so then from there on, I mean, you know how this goes. We start baby step four,

which is you investing 15% of your gross income. Do you guys have any money in retirement at this point? No. No. What was it? No, no, we do not. Okay, so let's pretend that at, uh, let's see, that would put you at 41. Yes. So let's pretend at age 41, uh, you start investing and you invest 15% so around 1100. I calculated, uh, $1,187 a month and let's give that 20 years to grow.

So if you were to do that with nothing currently saved, you'd have a million bucks in 20 years.

If you have it invested well the way that we teach. Okay, so that answers your question. But there's also part of this, uh, we believe that a big part of building wealth also is in your personal residence. Are you guys buyers or renters or how do you live right now? Eight on home. Pick, you have a paid off home? Yes. How'd that work out? Molly. My, my, my phone, my phone, I don't know if you gave us a house at our wedding.

So he was like, wow, that's crazy. So it's y'all, you and your wife could sell that house today

Uh, we had our praise, uh, it's between 6 and 6.50. Okay. Yes. So that's, that's the answer to your question, Caleb. You can be millionaires. If you keep doing what you're doing now, you're walking the baby steps. If you keep doing this and then you start investing the way you teach you, the way we teach,

you will have over a million dollars plus your personal residence. It's going to be over a million

“dollars. And again, that's if nothing changes. That's at the bare minimum. The truth is you're”

going to go through life. You're going to earn more money. At some point, some of these kids are going to get out of the house. Maybe your wife will pick up some work. Uh, this is the, the, the worst possible scenario is you make, you know, you earn a million dollars at this income. So, you know, it's going to be above and beyond that. It's awesome. And because Caleb, you started this fight, I'm going to finish it currently. The Astros are in first place and the Cardinals are in third place

in their respective divisions. So, just need to say that a lot. Is this the baseball? This is the baseball. Okay. I love it. Somebody knows what we're talking about. It's not me. Call me. Call me, call me talking about that Brad Lynch home run. All right. Let's go to James and Atlanta, Georgia, which is I do know this home of the Atlanta Braves. All right. James, you're on the line.

“Help us out, buddy. Hey there. How are you guys doing good? How can we help?”

So, my wife is going to be going to dental school in the summer of 2028. We start the application process in June of 2027. Uh, we're currently on a get out of debt journey. We started this year.

I've been listening to you guys since, never leaps since March and we paid off about $18,000

of our $80,000 in debt. Look at that. And, um, we want to know if we can go to dental school without taking out student loans. So, the answer is maybe, but I want to frame your question up. Okay. I want to reframe it. The way you, the way you stated this is this is happening in this particular time frame. And I want you to think about not because that's going to get you in trouble, because that's then it has to happen. So, the cheapest public in-state tuition is manageable

and especially if you have a year or two year runway. But if you say we're going to dental school, she's going to dental school in this time. That's when people end up in for-profit schools, end up in the most expensive private schools, because that's all they got into or whatever.

So, it's first saying, if we can afford it, we're going to go in this in this time frame.

And that sets a fire underneath you. And yes, depending on what schools you go to, there are public schools, and I mean, they vacillate so greatly in cost. But I'd be looking for what's the most reasonably priced public school that we can get into, especially in-state. If you have start going paying out of state tuition, man, they'll kill you on that. If you go to a fancy private schools, then get you under water real quick. And if you start going into the for-profit schools,

man, that can be a nightmare. So, the only in-state school currently is in August of Georgia, and it's 109,000 for approximately for four years. And then in surrounding states, it ranges from 250 to 350. It's 109 for four years. It's 109 every year, or that's the total. 109 for the four years. In-state tuition there is 27,000. But if you guys have from the research I've done, it can be pretty hard to get into dental school, and most people apply

to many and get accepted into you. And that's, that's the challenge you're going to run up against. And you ought to have to decide now what our principles are. 25 grand, 27 grand a year is, I think, a great deal for dental set too. But that means you're going to have to live like freshman in college, and you're going to cash flow this thing. And we're not going to look at it as 109,000 over four years. We're going to look at it as 27 grand a year. And what can we, what can we cut,

what can we add, you're going to work, other jobs, you're all going to save up money between now and then like all that's very, very doable. And I wouldn't blink twice about somebody's been in 27K on dental school. That's great, man. But if you don't have your habit and I do get your, but you, you describe the exact trap. I've just sat with students and all sorts of medical helping professions over the years. They're so desperate to get in that they end up getting in a place

that they just simply can't afford. Yeah, that's a really good point. I think the two caveats here

“is, I would make sure the debt is paid off first. Yes. Because that's the only way you're going”

to have the margin to be able to really save up the 2,200 or whatever it is every month to pay for this. And the other thing is, yeah, what is your job? What are you doing? Because while she's in school, she ain't working. So that means you're going to have to bring in enough money to float the boat and pay for tuition, which I think you can do you just have to be very intentional.

To take calls about your life and money, triple 8, 8, 2, 5, 5, 2, 2, 5 is the number to call

“if you want to get on the show in case you were ever wondering. We have Gabriel and Columbia,”

South Carolina on the line next. Hey, Gabriel. Hey, how are you guys doing? Good. How can we help? So a few months ago in April, my wife committed an active financial and fidelity against me. I knocked over her bag and spilled out a couple of papers for credit cards and we had agreed no credit cards like three years earlier. And I asked her some questions and found out that she had taken one of those male credit card offers and taken out $7,000 or used it for an amount of $7,000.

We've moved past it. No, you haven't. Yeah, you haven't. We're still here. In some sense, we did. In some sense, we, I haven't. You paid off the money, but emotionally, you haven't moved past it. What did she spend it on? Well, I'll give a little context quickly, but we was your period where we were all sick with two kids, one year old, three year old, she was staying home mom and when we all get sick like that,

she just really feels a lot of family. We have an area in a lot of health and she's she really wanted to like make money to afford to like pay for health. So she signed up for this like get-rich quick, take-talk millionaire course, where they say, oh, if you don't make $15,000 by the end of the course, will refund you the whole cost of the course or something. And, you know, that was what she said to kind of justify it like, oh, you know, I would have been able

to pay the money back no matter what. I, of course, thought it was a scam. I didn't trust it. So I just didn't have a found out. I had our cancel it. Sure. But I was, I was also like, well, you know, obviously you can't do that. You can't go behind my back and do that. And it's not like I don't provide for you. I mean, we could have had a conversation about that. And we talked about it and, you know, she, I guess didn't feel hurt sometimes. So that's the

stuff we worked through or we better communication now. But, you know, for even more context,

like when we first got married, I had no debt. And I found out a month before we got married,

she had $10,000 in credit card debt. I just paid it off of my savings at the time. And she also had student loans and we're almost done paying those off. But I do harbor resentment because like, I just feel like she's brought so much of this negative financial weight into our marriage. And it was one thing when it's like, okay, first year marriage, she agreed no more credit cards. But then things that little tough and she, you know, went

behind my back and took these. Why didn't, why do you think she, because it's trust on both sides, right? One is just a little like hers is more deceitful in that way. But why, why do you think, and if, I don't know if you've asked for this, but why didn't she trust you to tell her, you know, before you got married that she had $10,000 in debt? Why didn't she trust you to say, hey, I saw, you know, because I'm just thinking about conversations in marriage. And it's like,

“hey, I saw this thing on TikTok, I think we should try it. They guarantee $15,000, right?”

Why does she not trust to have those just kind of candid conversations? What do you think is going on there? Because there's trust on both ends. That's lacking. To be honest with you, she didn't have a great relationship with her mom. And I think she grew up lying a lot or hiding things to, as like a survival mechanism. And we've kind of been a work around that where I'm like, you know, I'm not your mom, like you actually have to communicate

clearly to me and tell me the truth about how you're feeling or what you're thinking and what you want to do. And they come to tell me things are fine and they're not. But let me interrupt you. You're exactly right. And you have to be a partner who can hear her feelings and not say, well, that's not a big deal. Look right at last time, right? Because that puts you in a position. If you're not, I don't use this word fluently. If you're not a safe place for her to unload and

just sit down and say, here's what I'm feeling. Or you try to immediately go fix it instead of just

sitting with her, then her nervous system is going to just go on automatic replay of her childhood.

“Now, I'm not saying anything she does right. Don't hear me say that. Do what?”

Yeah, she shuts it down. He's like, it's right. If I get, if I get to, if I get anger somewhere and she is like, stop coughing or she'll just say whatever will make me happy. But I know it's like my cereal. We'll get to the, we'll get to the, what do you do next? But I want you to hear what Jade said. Often these trust issues are because neither of you trust

Even if you think the thing that she says is a big deal isn't a big deal. Say thanks for sharing

that with me. Or here's a magic phrase. Tell me more about that instead of, I don't care about that. We're not doing that. Tell me more about that. What is it about a TikTok thing? I tell me about that. And then you can after she tells you about, you can laugh at it. That doesn't make any sense at all to me. I don't feel good about that. But that's different than that stupid. Wait, doing that. You're going to say in, it's an ethos in your home that you're both welcome at the table.

Right. So when it comes to rebuilding any sort of trust, the path forward is,

“you have to give her a roadmap and say, here is how we can re, like we're going to practice trust again.”

And I want to pull our credit reports. Hopefully you've already done that.

If you haven't seen this, the sub, you, you have done that.

Yeah, we did. And okay. We're on the baby steps together. I'm like a Dave Ranzi addict now. Okay. We're working through that. You know what? We hear this all the time. Some zealous husband drag in their wife through this some program. And it might be that she feels about Dave Ranzi as you feel about a TikTok plan. Right. And it's sitting down and saying, here's the kind of world we want to create.

And my challenge you're going to run into trying to re-establish trust is, bro, you are a score keeper. And you've kept a record of every right and wrong in your marriage. And you're bringing up stuff from before you got married and conversations. I address the elephant in the room, which is, I have a wife

who doesn't always tell me the truth. For whatever reason, I have a wife who doesn't always tell me the truth.

And then she knew this was a big core value of ours, of mine. She agreed to it. And she went behind my back and that shattered this trust. Or really probably didn't shattered, probably just brought to his surface trust issues you'll had. You got to make a path for her because you're not going to feel a certain way. And if you try to say like, or constantly looking for, I want to feel like I trust her, man, that that finish line is going to move every time. Say this week. If it and you get to

make up the path and then she is a grown woman gets to decide if I want to walk that path. I want to see your phone. I want to see our joint checking account. I want us to have every dollar app so we can both see every transaction. I want to freeze on both of our credit reports. So we have to, and the other person gets to keep the code. So if somebody wants to open up a credit card, then they have to go through each other. I want to close Amazon account. You get to decide what that path is. And my hope is that

you're not punitive with it. But this is a way that you are going to be able to exhale when you start to get nervous again. And she is going to say, I'm all in on this marriage. I had a lapse in

“judgment. I screwed up and I'm full, full, full tilt forward with you. Does that make sense?”

And then you've got it to side, brother. I'm not going to drag every time we get in a fight, every time she does something, every time I get mad, I'm going to bring up stuff from five years ago, 10 years ago. Man, don't, don't be that guy. Don't be that guy. Do you know what the problem in front of you? And I think that from what it sounds like the real issue in your home is you have a wife that you don't trust and you'll have to get to the root of that. You've got to be able

to tell each other the truth. Hey George Camel here. So you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about. And all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news. You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsey's real estate home base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources

for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start to finish guides, a podcast, and even an in-depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love? So if you're ready to take the next steps towards your home goals, go to ramseysolutions.com/realistate. That's ramseysolutions.com/realistate. So guys, if you're working the baby steps, just know the best and fastest way to do that

“is by using every dollar, my favorite budgeting app and the truth is it's more than just”

a budgeting app. Right now it's a plan that's built right in. You hear us talk about the Ramsey plan all the time and every dollar is built on that Ramsey plan. So we're not just telling you how to budget. We have an opinion on how you should manage your finances and the best ways to build wealth and how to find margin. And every dollar is going to hit you to that game. Okay, you can track your progress. Plus you get personalized recommendations and coaching for your situation that will help you

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Start every dollar for free today by downloading it in the App Store or on Google Play. All right, Kristen is in Columbus, Ohio, hey Kristen. Hi, thanks for taking my call guys. So show how can we help? So me and my fiance just started step two within the last month. We have a total of around 225,000 of consumer debt before mortgage and I had actually just got a new car like a month before and then once I started the program I'm like that was a bad idea.

So my question is I have my vehicle. Yeah my vehicle I owe about 29,700. My fiance actually has

“a lease and he has a year left and we also have his motorcycle Betty of 13, 5 on and I think it's”

one of what's about third or nine five. We have negative on all of them. We obviously have negative on mine since it's brand new and his has about seven or eight thousand and negatives since it's a lease and we weren't had it two years. So my question is how have we go about selling them to get used ones with the negatives and how would we go about that? So could I, I'm going to come out swinging here but I'm going to tell you what I would tell my older sister if she was

asking me the same question, I would tell you what I would tell my closest friends in the world okay?

And I only say this because I would not have a job if everyone's plans always worked out.

So please don't refer to yalls debt in our what we owe until you are legally married and you have a process, a legal process for unwinding it. The number of times I've heard dating couples or cohabitating couples or even engaged couples start paying each other's debts off and then they break up and I know you're like, no, that would never be us. I'm just telling you over and over untangling that nightmare or people saying I paid off 20 grand of her whatever and then she broke

up with me and there's no recourse for that. You know what I'm saying? And so what I would challenge you on is you all run this plan, you all are engaged, hopefully you're going to get married soon but you all run this program in parallel dealing with your own what you make, what your life costs, what you owe and handle it that way and then the day he puts a ring on your finger and you want on his now there's a legal there's a way to legally separate this without a being a nightmare.

It'll be a nightmare still but you got him saying? I get what you're saying but we have our finances combined for a while now. I know but that's not great. I put you at a very vulnerable position. Okay. So how much money do you make every year?

Well, just me or combined with us combined. Just tell me about you first.

Just me about 55,000. If you had to take all of the deaths that you have, what would they be? Oh, I just have them all up. Well, we know his lease wouldn't be part of it in his motorcycle wouldn't be part of it. So you'd have the 29,000 dollars on our house together too. Oh, what? And what? We have an equity loan on our house. Oh boy, whose whose name is the house in? It's in his, but I'm on the deed. But the mortgage is in his name? Yeah. Okay. And that it's it's his debt.

You're so you're in such a vulnerable position, Kristen. Oh, man.

“So let's let's let's keep it let's keep it one hundred right here. So the truth is”

all the deaths really in his name except for the $29,000 car, which is yours. That's the truth. Those are the facts. I have some student loans and a few credit cards. Okay. Tell me about your student loan. Okay. Tell me your student loans. You're credit card and you're 401k loan amount. Um, my student loans are about 28,000. Okay. Um, my 401k loan. I'm about 3300. Okay. Yeah. And then I have credit cards. A couple small credit cards I still need to pay off.

What are those? 300 375 for one. 900 for another. And then 2200 on another one. Okay. So let's for the purpose of this exercise because I mean, if we're sitting right now at coffee, talking face to face, I'd tell you the exact same thing. You do not need to put a dime of

“your money towards this person's debt. You need to focus on paying off your debt because that is the”

financially fair thing to do. And legally, it's the thing that serves you best in this situation. Okay. So you make $55,000 a year. Good on you. Let's list these debts from smallest to largest.

But I'd throw all of your extra income towards that smallest debt. Doing that is called the

“debt snowball. That's how I paid off, you know, $460,000 with my husband. It definitely works. The”

problem that I see, the problem that I see you running into is you guys probably have some sort of split where, you know, I don't know what it is. I'm guessing you pay part of the mortgage, which makes sense because you live there. But is there something else aside from housing expenses that you're giving him money for? No, we just combine everything. We just combine our income and the same bank and we just pay the bills. How much does he make? About we make, well, I'd throw

$135 by 80. Okay. He makes about 80. So the tough part is I want to help you as best as I can.

But you called a show that really has a clear point of view on this. And our clear point of view

is what John stated before. I'm not going to say it again. But that's the truth. And so I can't give you advice based off something I wouldn't do myself. I would not be a congruent human being if I did that. So I have to tell you what I would do, which is I'd separate my money. And I'd say we're not married. Our relationship isn't committed, therefore our money doesn't have to be committed. And it's no shade, but I have to protect myself to a certain degree. And I do it like that.

Yeah. So how would I go about with my vehicle, then? Like, would we get you out of it and getting something cheaper? Yeah. So what do you say was worth getting a personal loan? No. What does Mike? I have an offer for like $25,000. So that puts me out $3,700 in negatives. Okay. Yeah. I would do that. I would go down. If you, if you can get a, I don't know. Do you have any cash saved? No. Okay. This is a emergency fund. How quickly could you give $3700? How quickly could

I just save a couple of months? The offer might be gone. If you wanted to, you could go. Yeah. What you could do, you could go to the credit union, or you could get a loan for the difference. And then you're going to need something to drive, right? So maybe I'd get a loan for the $37 plus maybe another $5,000. So $87,000. You're nice. I was going to say $2,500. Yeah. Look for the, I mean, you're looking for a beater is the point that John is making.

This is just something to get you from point A to B. It's temporary. Okay. So don't get hung up on the fact that you're driving a $3,000 car. It's just temporary. And then now you freed up your car note, right? So how much is your car note? About five, 13. So you freed up the five, 13. Of course, you're going to have to pay a little bit for the loan that you got from the credit union or for whatever, but mostly you freed up most of that cash. And that's going to go

towards your debt snowball. Paying off these credit cards is quickly as possible. Then next, you'll move on to the 401k loan. Then next, you'll move on to the student loans and do those

“smallest to largest as well. But the key is smallest to largest. And you're going to work extra”

hours. You know, if you can pick up overtime in some way, if you can do a side hustle, yeah, I have been perfect. Awesome. Most people do this in 18 months, right? That's the

goal. 18 months or less. And they do that by getting very uncomfortable doing things they've never

done before, working jobs they've never worked before, selling things that they thought they loved. Right? All of these things are going to sell that motorcycle and take out a loan for the difference for that 4,000 bucks. Yeah, absolutely. And I would encourage him to do that. I would start working this plan and let him see all of the progress that you're making and him go, oh, that looks good. I want to do that too. And you have the ability to influence this person.

You can't change a person, but you can't influence them with your behavior. And I think you have a really good opportunity to do that. Hey, guys, George Campbell here. You ever feel like you make good money and still have nothing to show for it. You run it to target for one thing and somehow walk out $87 later with toothpaste and emotional support candles. Just me. Okay. Well, that's the problem. Most people don't pay attention

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Alrighty, it's time for our Ramsey Show question of the day brought to you by Y-Refi. Listen,

for decisions you made years ago, but Y-Refi helps borrowers explore at low fixed rate, refinancing options, and payments designed around your current situation. Just visit Y-Refi.com/Ramsey

“and remember it may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Maria in Oklahoma.”

Maria writes, "My spouse and I are dead free and have a fully funded emergency fund.

We're saving for a down payment on our first home. We tie through our local church,

but the church often presents causes where they ask members to help meet the needs of others. It feels selfish not to participate, and these requests when our family needs are easily met, and our savings goal could be pushed out a few weeks or months to help make a true difference in someone else's life. How do we balance wanting to help and feeling guilty when we choose not to participate?" Ooh, well, I mean, John, let me just say, guilt and generosity,

guilt and giving cannot go hand in hand. Let me phrase it like that. You're supposed to give out of a cheerful heart, and I don't think you can be cheerful and guilty at the same time. Let me say this in a gross way. If you feel guilty and so you give, you're actually using

the person who needs your help to make you feel better, and that makes you the parasite,

and that exchange. Because it's like, I need this for me. I need this to, I need to be okay. So, I've got it. Yes, you're happy right. That's a good word. And then, I mean, yeah, you can go with

“the scripture, like you should be not giving under compulsion, and the Lord loves a cheerful”

giver and all that kind of stuff. But the bigger part is how you feel about it, and you giving is not, I've heard Dave say this, and I'll try to say to my own words, whether or not you gave to that one thing is not moving the needle on how God feels about you. You know what I'm saying? And I think that that's the biggest part of this, because the guilt is, oh, I should, there's this expectation. I should have done this, and if I don't do this, then maybe is that.

And it's just like, hey, what if what if you just set aside an amount that you and your spouse

agree on and say above and beyond our tithe, we have this line item on our budget, and we spend it when when those needs arise, and if there's not a need this, this month, we spend it on outrageous tipping, and if it's not tipping this month, then we buy backpacks for back to school, and this is just a line item of extra giving that we plan for on our budget. We know that it's just enough that we can afford it, but it also gives us a little bit of tinge, right?

Like, you feel it a little bit, and this is what God has laid on our heart to do, and we feel great doing that. I think that that's the way giving is supposed to feel. It shouldn't feel like all past or something from across the stage. Okay, like I said, like, it shouldn't feel like that, and then if I don't do it because this was the month we were supposed to, I don't know, take that vacation. Now, I feel guilty the whole time, I'm on the vacation. I just don't think that

that's the intention of, I personally don't feel like that's the way it's supposed to feel.

“I feel like you should go, I'm happy to help, and I planned to do so, and I do think that there's”

some spontaneity sometimes where it's like, you know what, I wasn't planning on doing this, but it, like, this just hit, like, let's do it. I think those times come too, but also our guilt is not the ticket. This is a deeper conversation probably for another time, but if you're you're tithing every month, you're local church, and every week, they're circling back up and me like, hey, we don't have enough here. Yeah. Get involved in the budget process. Oh, do we need new instruments

for everybody? Do we need you? Interesting, yeah. I don't know, whatever. That could be easier said, that could be easier said than I know. But like, if it comes down to a trust issue with how's my tie being stewarded? Well, that, then that's another conversation. Then have a bigger conversation. And I'd rather see a church with small, with fewer fog lights or whatever, and more like, we're going to, all the church to create a fund that is constantly building because we have

these recurring needs of our members. I love that. Let's have that. So it's, so that comes up every time. But by the way, every one of us feels has feelings. We feel guilty. Sure. Yes. And then, as adults, this is, this is what emotional maturity is. I have this feeling. And then I'm going to do the next right thing. And if the next right thing is me and my husband agreed on, here's our vision for our life. And by the way, an anchored family who's got extra bedroom, I've had

college students live with us all summer. Like, you knew a lot of good with that, too, right? And so let's make this commitment. I have this feeling. I feel sad. I feel guilty, whatever. Uh, now I'm going to do the next right thing, right? So don't be trapped in this. I feel this way. So I have to just mindlessly respond and every act. Have a set of an anchored set of values and have a plan that you and your husband agree on. And then move forward.

Yep. I like that. Hopefully we helped on that one. All right. Next, we've got Holden, who's in Orlando, Florida. What's up, Holden? How can we help?

two months ago, combined. We make about 120, 130. Looking into buying a multi-family home, I've been kind of set on that from a mentor, kind of mentoring me in that kind of having the fear of like, do I do this if the numbers make sense and just kind of deciding what I can afford or do I kind of buy cheap home and kind of save and continue to save and go from there. Can I ask you a question? Yes. Would you do what the mentor says even if you can't afford it,

just because he said to do it? No. Okay. That's all I need to know. Now I know we can help you. All right. So we, you've got $40,000 saved your newlywed and you guys has combined income is $20,000. No debt. Have you guys bought a home for yourself yet? No, our combined is about 120, 230,000. We are living with my parents currently rent free. Um, they are Christians. We are Christians. They were very welcoming. Like, you guys have become stay here for as long as

“you need to get there. Get on your feet, save, whatever. Okay. Um, obviously there is tensions with”

being newly married, living in the same country. I bet there is this kind of needing space. So I'm trying to, I'm trying to tread lightly on that and not wait too long, but not also what are you waiting for? What are you waiting for? Like, what, what's the purpose? I'm looking at two people who have awesome incomes. They've got money saved. Why in the heck are you living with your parents? I think it's just because it's free. It's just because it's free. It makes sense

and like investing in the right property. I think that's really what. Here's what I want to

challenge you on. I think that you're trading one really important thing for something that's not nearly as important. You're sitting here telling me, I got a newly wed wife. My wife's hot and I'm living in my parent's house and I can't be a newly wed the way I want to be because I'm trading it for investment property that is far out in the future. So imagine your new kitchen table. I want you to set a seat for your wife. I want you to set a seat for your mom and dad

and I also want you to set a seat for this investor, this mentor of yours. And all those other voices are speaking into this marriage that you've created with your wife. I don't like people

thinking of their first home as an investment property. One of the, one of the, one of the most

“of, man, I was that guy and I was this. I'm going to move to this house and move that and I remember”

one of the wisest financial minds I've ever known said, hey, Deloni, get your wife a home. Get your wife a home. And that, for whatever it clicked is like, oh, this isn't, uh, this isn't an investment vehicle that this is a home. It's our life. It's our life. And by the way, get your wife a home could be you renting a home, renting an apartment. You guys, you've started your life together and now this would be a totally, if you would call an man said, man, we've got $120,000 in debt and I only make

$40,000. And my parents said, we could live there for, you know, a few months for free. That feels a little different. I'm not going to lie, but you've got money and you've got income. And now you've got a brand new wife going to an apartment and have your space and start out your, your marriage in a place where you guys can have your privacy. You can have your conversations. There's room for you to argue. There's room for you to have all the things that are part of a new marriage.

And enjoy that. Do you know what I'm saying? And all of that is you guys building that together and you're so, so young that you have the time to build that together. You don't have to sacrifice.

“If you don't have to sacrifice to this level, man, don't do it. What do you, what do you think?”

What is your mentor told you're going to gain from buying a multifamily property?

I think it's just like the long term, like, wealthy you can build with it and I've always

had, like, that kind of entrepreneur mindset. And I thought this was a way that I can get into that. And I just didn't want to, you know, make a mistake. I'm just going and buying some home. It will be a mistake. It won't be a mistake. It won't be a mistake. Okay. And become a relational entrepreneur. Build something amazing with your wife. You all co-create something awesome. You all get to build a marriage you want to do. Go build that one.

. Hey, guys. Rachel Cruise here with Big News. The 2027 Ramsey Gold Planter is here. And you can get it at our lowest price for a limited time. Guys, this isn't just another calendar. It's the only planner with exclusive monthly content

here. So don't wait. Order yours by August 23rd at to get our lowest price just 35 at 97.

Go to RamseySolutions.com/store to get the deal. That's RamseySolutions.com/store. All right. Your Ramsey show scripture and quote of the day Romans 12 12 rejoicing hope. Be patient and tribulation, be constant and prayer. Albert Einstein said, "It's not that I'm so smart. It's just that I stay with problems longer." All right. I dig it. He's also pretty smart. Yeah. Let's just...

“He's Einstein. Yeah. All right. Caleb is in Colorado Springs, Colorado. Hey, Caleb. How can we help?”

Hey, you guys. Hey, thanks for taking my call today. You bet. What's up? I'm so okay. My wife and I have been married about four years. I'm 25. She's about to turn 23 here a couple days. Anyway, we've been farming for about five years. I'm actually fifth generation

on our family farm here. Currently living in, we're like the third family to live in this home.

It's been our third generation in the family. Anyway, got it. So we are kind of stuck with a hard place, a hard decision to make. We made the decision this year. Within the last couple weeks, actually, we're going to

“liquidate and sell our farm. That's not our family farm, but it's my wife and I farm.”

We've been at it for about five years and decided that this is just isn't working. The overwhelming debt road of farming is just absolutely atrocious. Not something that I would really... I don't know. I'm much more interested in helping out my dad and family. He's helped not been good last year too. And so much more extreme helping him out as I can. And so anyway, we're going to take through the decision. At the end of this sale here in a few months, we're working on kind of closing things up.

We're going to be left with after we pay off all of our debt. We're going to be left with about a net of 360 before taxes. But as you guys probably know, we're going to be stuck with a pretty substantial tax bill. That's probably looking at about 260 right now. Why is that capital gains tax? Yes, sir. Yeah, capital gains as well as depreciation on assets. So, you know, we've got center pivot, some tractors, tractors. That's that'll all be.

So, I hope that depreciation will make the mistake of fully depreciating out at the very beginning, just in case and so, you know, we've got to pay that back. So, the decision really, and this is the most basic part of the question is, I could even pay the 260 upfront

and walk away with 100,000 just free and clear cash. Basically, for my wife and I, to completely

restart our lives, we just had a little bored about a year and a half ago. But, you know, to restart our completely, you know, from ground zero or the tax account was said that we could reinvest 180 into assets that would in my mind be productive and, you know, my living. And then, you know, that cuts that tax build back down to about half 180 taxes, 180 investment. And then, I guess, I would have something to show for it, I guess, cool and cool. I mean, you have $100,000 to show for it,

but you would have zero dollars to go start your new life with. Yeah, the, the, well, yeah, 100,000 that would be, I guess the tax account was said it would be free and clear.

“Yeah, but you give it, I'm saying, you would have $180,000 tied up in potential assets, right?”

I mean, and, and you, it would hope you, you're gambling, right? Like you hope that pays off and, but you would have zero dollars in cash to go start this new life with it. You still find yourself, you and your wife and your, and your baby still find themselves at worse, we're taking a new path. Yep, yeah, exactly. And, you know, if we went to 100,000 route, we're probably not looking at sticking around, we're probably going to move out of state to somewhere with a little bit more

start over, we're basically going to say we're going to clean slate this thing completely. And if not,

we reinvest, it's the decision would be find some equipment that they would make a living tier app, you know, at home on this fifth generation farm that, you know, we were blessed and down like privilege to live in to be honest. Yeah, but then you're tangled up in family business now. Yeah, I think you heard about two years ago. Yeah, and it hasn't rained in Colorado Springs in what, 10 years now. I mean, yeah, that's something about that. That's for sure. Yeah, it's the top of

the year long. It's, if you, if you told me, hey, I'm going to go for something five years ago, and it, it doesn't work as you thought was going to work, and you are able to exit and someone right you 100,000 dollar check. Yeah, I don't know, I'm sure your tax account's got it all figured out, but I'm just saying from a guy who's got two kids in a wife and I'm desperately

always seeking to solve for peace. Right. That's, that's for me. What do you think? I think that you need

to solve the, the problem of what you're going to do next without thinking of it through that lens, because otherwise it could, the tail could wag the dog and you could end up doing something that maybe is not, doesn't make sense in order to reinvest this money. And I haven't heard you say, here's what, we did this farm. It didn't work. Here's what round two is from a career standpoint. Is this you going to another location and farming that land? Is this you, like, what is it?

What's it look like when you move away from this and make this sale? What is, what's your life after that? So that would definitely pose an option, I guess. If we went somewhere else, we do, so we do own this house spring clear. It's about, it's worth about 430, at least a praise of rise. Okay. It's free and clear with or without the farm. So you'll take that money. No. Yeah. And so we'll be able to take that forward as well as the 100. I don't know what the

“taxes would be on that house sale, because we bought it a couple of years ago. You'll, you should,”

I think you have half a million dollars. Yeah. You'll be fine. You'll be able to take that and

load it into the next house. So the question is, what are you doing for work as what I'm saying? What do you vision your, envision yourself doing? And that right there is the, the million dollar question right there, because I've been self-employed. We went straight. Both of us went from high school into a state leadership position and then met each other and got married. Either of us went to school, neither of us did anything like that. Just went into my life as a homemaker. She does a,

she has a job on the side to bring some, oh, about 500 bucks a month. But do you see, do you see my point, Caleb, is if you say, yeah, I'm going to reinvest this money into new equipment, new equipment to do what? You don't have any even decided what you're doing yet. So I think that that we're going to go on the family farm. And he's going to hope cousin Willie's grease in the axles when he's supposed, like, did I, I wouldn't be evolved at that. If, if you said I want to go work full time on this

family farm and they're going to pay me 100 grand a, and I made that number up. They're going to pay me, and I want to be a farmer still, but I'm going to farm their land. Maybe. Well, I'll tell you, that is the dream of course that is the dream that's why we started out that way. But quite frankly, the family farm can't afford, they can barely afford to pay the person next to everyone.

“That's what I was going to say. What's the difference between this farm and the farm?”

It doesn't work, brother. Yeah, and yeah, I mean, in Europe, tax accounts, sounds like, I mean, they're probably, they're, I know there are a hundred times smarter than I am, and they're probably trying to give you, here's a path you can take to not do this in the short term. I'd rather see you. Let me ask you a question about this, then, because I kind of agree with you, and that's kind of been my hunch, is the hundred thousand. It's safer, but not only safer,

it's more peaceful. Let me ask you this. So for a year and a half ago, two years ago, I guess, right before my son was born. I had made a four decision to go into business with some other family that ended up going under and really destroyed relationship. It's also carried forward a bunch of debt we carried forward. I mean, it was really a painful thing. Anyway, in that, in the aftermath, I was, we were forced to make the decision to sell

our best three of the cows that my wife brought into our marriage. Hey, let's go.

“Clearly since middle school. Here's the thing. I'm up against the clock, and I've got to let”

you know, you said, you already said with your own mouth the solution to this problem. You said, the piece full route would be to take the hundred thousand dollars. Let the cows ride, dude. John has said, solve for peace, solve for peace. The piece full route is to take the hundred thousand,

what you need to do. All right, guys, thanks for hanging out with us. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace Christ Jesus. [Music]