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“>> Normal is broken, common sense is weird,”

so we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey network, send the credit. Fire, rinse credit, you new studio, this is the Ramsey show. On Day Ramsey, Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one best selling author.

Oh, it's just more money happy hour on the Ramsey network. And my daughter is my co-host today. Ryan is with us in Chicago. >> So my question is, can I say more than $1,000 before the baby step two?

>> What's the purpose of something happening?

Is there gonna be a job change?

Are you guys expecting a baby? What's the reason? >> No problem. So I'm 34 years old, no mortgage, no kids, no personal loans. I did just transfer to another location, same job,

to move towards my family.

“So I have about, I'm just thinking about,”

do I pay off that before saving or try to do-- >> I'm sorry, so you said you had no personal loans. >> No, I'm sorry, like, actually from a lender, but I do have two personal loans, student and car, my apologies.

>> Okay, how much is it loan? >> Those are personal loans, okay.

>> How much is it loan debt is it?

>> 23,000. >> Okay. >> And the car? >> 23,000. >> Both.

>> Yes, each. >> 23,000, each, okay, and what do you make? >> Take home is 2800 a month. >> Okay. >> And you already made the move, so you're settled or you're about to--

>> I'm about to in about two weeks.

“>> Okay, gotcha, and how much do you have in savings?”

>> I have 90,000, and 401k, 3,000 investments, nothing in savings. >> 3,000, what's the investments? What's the 3,000? Is that retirement, like a Roth or is it just a brokerage account? >> Just a brokerage account.

>> Okay, how are you planning on cash flowing the move? >> Well, fortunately, it actually won't cost me any money to move. My family's going to help me, so the moving is actually not going to be difficult, and I'm actually going to get paid the same, and I'm going to start there just like kind of the lateral move.

>> Okay, so they're jumping in, helping with the physical move, and you're moving from where to where. >> Okay, gotcha. I mean, if I were you Ryan, I'm okay if you don't do anything for two weeks when it comes to the baby steps, get moved, start the new job, settle in, and then once everything is

there, then yeah, I would start with taking 2,000 out of that investment account, and throwing it at this debt, and you're making 2,800 a month, as I what you said. >> Yeah, yeah, so it'll be, your income is going to be a major factor in you getting out of this debt. I mean, it's, yeah, I mean, $46,000, and so you're finding any margin, because you probably

are not, you're not going to have a ton of margin, I'm assuming after rents and food and everything. >> Is the trajectory on this job going to take this income up pretty quickly, because you're not making much? >> I understand, that trajectory is actually a lateral move.

>> No, I mean, after you make the move, are you going to be making double this in two years or something? >> That is my goal. I am planning to kind of do some studying internally with my company and hopefully move up into another position.

>> What kind of job is that Ryan? >> Ironically low-level finance position. >> Mm-hm. >> Okay. >> Okay.

Yeah. Well, as, there's another thing coming into play, too, here, is you have a car you can't afford. I mean, you make $40,000 a year, you have a $23,000 car, that's just ridiculous. So unless your income is going to come up pretty dramatically, pretty quickly over the next two or three years, this car is going to really hold you back.

And I'm going to, if I'm you, I'm going to look at selling that car, not this week and anything like that, but I mean, six months from now, you're settling in, you're going to see that what Rachel said is true, there's not a lot of wiggle room in this math to be able to aggressively attack this debt. And I don't want you hanging out in this debt for like three years or five years or something.

So I'm going to take extra jobs, I'm going to move up through the company, we're going to get this income up to double pretty quick with side hustles or whatever and start really

people keep a $1,000 as a permanent plan.

This is just while you're getting rid of your debt and totally focusing on your debt.

“And honestly, the difference in $2,000 or $3,000 in $1,000 is nothing.”

So it's not even symbolic. So I mean, if you have a problem, it's $8,000 problem of some kind of an $8,000 emergency, you're just as screwed with three as you are with one. So the purpose of the one is not to, because it's enough, it's just, we're going to take it down and we're going to completely focus on getting out of debt.

And that would include getting your income way up and very possibly selling this car to get this stuff cleaned up. Yeah, because you're not making any money. Because if you sell the car Ryan and get a beater, $2,000 extra a month just going to this debt you're out in a year.

So, I mean, if you can do this quickly, that's the point of the intensity, it's going to cost you another year, living on the edge if you keep the car at least.

And I don't, and that's, and that's living on the edge, meaning you're not doing anything

but working all the time with your extra jobs and everything else. And that's what's going to take. So I personally wouldn't do that for a car. Melissa's in San Antonio, hey, Melissa, how are you? Hi, Dave's in Rachel, how are you all?

Better than we deserve, what's up? Go ahead. I just have a question. Is there ever a time on baby four, five and six that you, baby steps four, five and six,

“that you would be okay with not investing the full 15% into retirement?”

Why do we not want to be wealthy? I think we do want to be wealthy. Um, my husband and I have been listening for about a year, we paid off $100,000 in debt. And we are, um, we've built our emergency fund and I have, um, a kid that I'd be a four

children, one is in college and we did not play in the welfare college and, um, so we're

trying to get him through, um, without student loans at the end. It's just a little tight. So I didn't know if there was, like, for a short time, if you would ever suggest. I don't, I don't suggest it. And instead, I'm probably going to think about where he's going to school and how much

that costs. Yeah. He's going to an in-state school, small school, it is commercial aviation, um, and so, um, unfortunately, um, that's a little expensive that our college, but he has a college farm, but it's just not going to cover it.

And so we were going to try to, yeah, and what's your household income? 300,000. Okay. And this kid's looking for a 100 grand, right? Yeah.

Yeah. And he's going to, he's already, so we used to call his farm he's on year two, but the college find is about gone. Mm-hmm. How many years, how many years is that?

He needs another 50 grand. Yeah. Yes. Sure. Mm-hmm.

I think you can catch flow of the 50 grand end, put a 15% in. You just got to decide that him going to school is a priority over your lifestyle. Yeah. Cutting lifestyle before cutting retirement. I would.

I mean, you can do it if you want. It's your life. But the math on it is not good. And, um... When they make 300, so...

Yeah. And the math on cutting it. Oh, yeah. Cutting back all my retirement is not appealing. Yep.

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Michelle is in Toronto. Hi, Michelle. How are you? Hi. Good.

Can you hear me? Absolutely. How can we help? Thanks for taking my call. I'm currently working in a job that I don't like, but I meet good money and I'm looking

into switching into like the trades.

I have an opportunity for an apprenticeship, but it would be free, but I wouldn't

be working for three months. I'm in baby step two and I just don't know if I should take property and invest in my future that way. No. Okay.

You don't quit your job and make no money when you're deep in debt. You keep working and you get the debt cleared so that you can quit your job. So, what are you doing now? I'm a city bus driver. Okay.

“And what would you be doing when you take the new position?”

So, it's an apprenticeship program. I would be working part time. It would be free. It would be for a construction and then an apprenticeship with paid apprenticeship back through the three months.

And then, and then eventually, what in construction requires an apprenticeship. So, in Canada, you do like construction for, like, carpentry, electrician, all of that. So, you learn a little bit of everything and then they place you with the union for the apprenticeship with them in the area that you're selling. Okay.

And how much would you be making after the three months? They usually start at 33 an hour, but it goes up because you would continue to grow. What are you making now? What are you making now an hour, as a bus driver? With, with over time last year I made 80,000 to take 1900 by weekly.

By weekly. Okay. So, this is, uh, after the apprenticeship is very given, right? Yeah, but I don't like what I'm doing right now. So, actually, it's very pushing me to try to, how much debt do you have anywhere that

way? I'm 15,000 to right now, I have a car and a credit card. Okay. How much is the car debt? I owe 6,000 on it.

Mm-hmm. Okay. And not on the credit card. Okay. Yeah, I'm just going to roll up my sleeves and knock those two things out and then save up

a good down payment. How are you planning on living while you made no money? I would work part-time where I will currently work as a casual and I currently live with my family and my parents. So, I would just--

Yeah, how old are you? I'm 33. Okay. All right.

The other thing I want you to think about while you're doing this, but first, yes, I would

clear off the debt before I went into an apprenticeship and cut my page dramatically.

“You need the money to clear the debt, but you should be able to clear it really fast.”

You got no overhead. You're making $80,000 and you only need 15. So you should do this in just a matter of months, not a matter of year. Mm-hmm. Okay.

Mathematically, you should. And then the other thing I want you to investigate is the only thing you've looked at is the union track. And I am sure that they're not positive, but I feel relatively sure that it's somewhat like the states and that you can go the union route or you can go the non-union route,

each by the way, we'll put you to work a lot faster. And so I would investigate, you know, going to work on a construction site and start making $30 an hour and just like that, and then we'll start to learn while you're there and-- Yeah, do some investigation. Yeah, investigating in that field, Michelle, before you make that decision.

But honestly, yeah, if you're bringing around probably 6,000 home a month, if you could, if you could throw 4,000 at this, you're done in, I mean, 4 months. So then we can pick up the internship and look to see, you know, in the future. Because I would want you to change jobs. I understand if you just, if you hate it, and that's not a way to do life.

But for 4 months, I would do that in over time, like what you're doing and just get this dead knocked out. Yeah. Because if you don't know the dead hanging over you while you're trying to make the transition, you're more likely to pull it off.

And I want you to pull it off. I agree with the move. I just, I'm not going to hop immediately on that. So let's clear the dead and then move in that direction. Ashley's in Pioria. Hey, Ashley, what's up?

Hi, good to talk to you guys. You too, how can we help? So we were lucky enough during co-grid to refinance for a 15-year loan at a 1.75%.

We used home school, but now my girls are going to private school, like 15 to 20 miles away.

“And because of that, I am going into town two to three times a day.”

The last two days, it was 80 miles per day.

You just never know, no miles per day or not.

And my question would be, for both of you, would it make sense for us to just get rid of our 1.75 that we only have eight more years left and move into town where we would be closer to the girl school. We would not be able to, you know, be in the car so much. My youngest is not even in kindergarten here yet.

My oldest is a freshman. So I do have a, I should say a lot more years to do this, but 12, you know, if, if you say at that school and say in that house, it's 12 years from kindergarten to senior year. Yeah, exactly. Do you work Ashley or your husband?

Yes, so I currently stay home, obviously, in next year, when she's in kindergarten, might be a little different. So yes, my husband does work full-time and he brings in like $2300 by monthly. Why are you making five trips a day? Well, I'm not making five trips, I'm making at least three.

Why? To driving there and then taking them up and then in the evening, I might be having piano or one of the girls might have golf or we might have someone get church. So we're, yeah, back in Paris, were you, were you like, why are you like doing a piano at the school?

The piano is at a local college. Oh, so there's nothing to do with the school decision. No, no, no, no, no, no. How often is that the school? Well, golf, golf is at school, but at a golf course.

Yeah, but I mean, it's through the school.

Basically, church, obviously, is separate.

So the piano and the church was already there. Yes.

“But your life is 20 miles from where you guys live.”

Yeah, yeah, especially we want to be more involved in the school. We want to be more involved in church. There's just things that we want there. Sure. So if you have you guys looked at houses, are you able to afford the move?

Well, that was the question, are mortgage would go up $1,000. Okay. Why? Based on interest rate, 80,000 dollars at 4% change in interest rate is not $1,000. Well, you're only moving up in Paris.

You're moving up in Paris.

Well, yeah, because we bought this house from 150,000.

You're moving up in Paris. Yeah, because they bought the house at the, no, no, no, no. They sell this house and they have an $80,000 mortgage. If they go get an $80,000 mortgage in downtown at 6% it is not a $1,000 swing. You're trying to move up in house while you're doing all these other things.

You can't afford to do that. Well, we don't know yet that what's, you guys, what hits your, your bank account every month? $4,600? Yes.

And then he does have the aid disability and how much does that earn in $60. Okay. Okay. And then the new mortgage would be what? Well, they're, you know, an estimate of $2,100.

But that's with insurance and property taxes and at a rate of $1,000. Not only $80,000, it's not. No. But with the, they're moving up in Paris. Yes, probably because it's a nice area.

Yeah. And you can't afford to do that. And the private schools. You don't, you cannot take a mortgage at 50% of your income because you chose to move your children into a school that you can't afford in a place where you can't afford to

live. No. You can't just keep doing. I can't afford. I can't afford, but I want to.

No, I would not do that. Because of the, I'm not going to double, I'm not going to have a mortgage as 50% of your take on pay. Yeah, I'm great. That's what I should get into the farm.

So I actually know, you can't, yeah, you can't afford it. No. You can find another house that you can move into and have an $80,000 mortgage as 6% Yes, I would do that. If you're behind on your bills, doing more of the same isn't going to fix it.

You need a different plan.

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Caroline is in Dallas, Texas. Hi, Caroline. How are you? Hey. I'm well.

Thank you so much for answering my question today. Mootron? Thanks. I want to buy a horse and my financial advisor told me I need to grow my investment portfolio a little bit more before I can't afford it.

And I feel like I can afford it, so I wanted to just get a second opinion from you all. Okay. Watch the size of your investment portfolio. This size of the horse. I don't know why.

Yeah. Big horse. Small horse, Caroline. Yeah. It's a quarter horse.

It's going to be a show horse, a raining show horse. That's big here in Texas. And so raining is a thing here, is a type of horse back riding. Anyway, it'll be a show horse and my investment portfolio to answer your question is $7 million.

My net worth is $8 million.

And your screener asked me how much I've been earning on that. And I actually, when I told them about 14% of it, I went and looked it up and at 16.47% that I've earned year over year. That will be brought up. Yeah.

Okay. How much is this raining quarter horse? That's so it's going to be somewhere around 75,000. It might be more. It might be less.

Okay. I don't know why your financial advisor even gets a vote. You're a lady that has $7,000, $8 million. She wants to spend 75,000. Well, thank you for that.

“And I, but here's the thing, the ongoing upkeep.”

And the reason to get a vote is I trust him. And I ask in the question. So I mean, I bring his... Sure. Okay.

How much is the upkeep yield?

Well, the answer is he wouldn't do it if it was him.

But the answer is not you can't afford it. You can afford it. Now if you're not a horse person, you might not view this as wise. But you're a horse person. And it's where you want to burn some money.

You're getting ready to put $150,000 in the middle of the floor and burn it. That's right. That's exactly right. That's right. But if you've got $7 million you can do that.

It doesn't matter. How much is it a year, Caroline, with everything? Boarding, grooming. Yeah. Yeah.

It's at least $45,000 a year.

“If everything goes right, which one does it ever anything go right now?”

No. That's $4,000 a year. What are you? Are you working or you retired? No.

I'm not working. I am a young retiree. I'm 54 years old. And so I need my investment portfolio to last for the rest of my life. Don't have kids.

Don't have a husband. If your investment portfolio makes 10% a year, you make $700,000. That's a year. Right. So I should be able to afford a horse, right?

Yeah. Yeah. But just remember, just remember though, when it comes to horses, it's like a lot of things. It's like my cars and my guns and some other things. The first one is the Gateway Drug.

Oh, yes. I've had a whole show that I'm not going to be a problem. It's going to get worse. I think I'm going to get you. Yeah.

I'm going to pay to just have a recent widow and so my husband always worked and had a big

job. And so we were able to afford horses and it was fine because he had an income. But now I don't have $700,000. That was great. Other than that.

Other than that. What's your house situation, Caroline? Do you own your house? So you still pay in on the wage? Right.

I still have 140,000 well in mortgage and I need it.

“It takes me about because that's what my husband did.”

My recently departed husband. We had a very low and less than 2% interest rate. So he was just like, let's just pay it off, you know, over 15 years.

So I might pay off my house.

“I know you have to pay off your house and because you want the horse, you should buy the”

horse. You can afford it. Just want you to, I buy some things that are absolutely, um, everyone buys some things that are absolutely ridiculous, meaning that we just take the money and burn it in the middle of the floor.

It's just a, it's ridiculous consumption, right? We all do. And the only question is does it harm your life when you do that? Okay. The question?

And this does not harm your life, $150,000 75 for the horse in the next two years of upkeep gets you to $150 real quick, right? Um, burning $150,000 in your fireplace tonight, your life would not change one ounce. Okay. And $45,000 a year for the upkeep ongoing doesn't change $700,000 a year coming in.

I think if, if I, I think in the future, I would want my financial advisor to phrase differently so I don't fire him. He should say, he should say, you can afford to do this. But you need to understand that you are completely burning this money in the middle of the floor.

If you understand that, and you feel like you're going to be okay, mathematically, you're going to be okay, but you can't do this 10 times. You can do it once. We don't go to 1,000,000. We're not going to 1,000,000.

We're not going to 1,000,000. We're not going to 1,000,000 on this. Yeah. I want to keep it going. A year old.

You know what I mean? I want to keep it. If you're going to 6 years, I'm going to buy another horse and retire the other one and a retire.

Well, if you live on considerably less than 700,000, and you end up with 14 million, and

you want to buy another horse, then you think you'll be fine. Okay. Yeah. But just some of my portfolio is in IRAs, like about half of it's in an IRA that I can't really touch.

Yeah. But it's growing. At that rate, it's my point. You are not going backward. You're going forward.

Yeah. In a year or so, you can get to it. Yeah. And seven years from now, I will have doubled if it's continuing at 10% or greater. And so, your seven will be 14, seven years from now, if you're earning 10, or greater,

and you have been. So you've got a good portfolio, and so the question is, if you booked a $200,000 for seasons or RIT's private jet around the world, which is actually available for about that, it would be the same thing. I'm going to travel around the world for the next six months by private jet, and I'm

going to book it through four seasons or RITs. They both have it. Okay. And it'd be the same exact thing. You're just burning the money.

Yeah. But that's triple what she's paying for the $200,000 I said, and she's paying $100. That's over. Yeah. She's going to pay 75, and then she's got two years of upkeep.

She's going to have $152,000 in this horse and RIT beat. Yeah. And I'm going. The upkeep is $45,000. Yeah.

Yeah. And so.

But if you have $7 million, and you want to go on a $200,000 trip, you can do that.

Yes. Yes. That's my point. Yep. Now, would your financial advisor agree with that?

Obviously, he wouldn't, you know, but he doesn't get hurt. He's hurt for that. Yeah. Yeah. He doesn't get a vote on that stuff.

He just is there to help me understand the math, and, you know, let's couch this decision,

“looking at what it does to the arithmetic, does this harm my life?”

I wonder why he would tell her, well, I'll give you, let's give in the benefit of the doubt for a second. Yeah. Okay. I'll be nice.

He might, her husband just passed away. He's been coaching both of them for years. He might be afraid she's buying this out of grief, and he might be trying to protect her as a widow. For a large purchase.

Yes. From a making a large purchase, while, you know, and because maybe she, if her husband was here, maybe they wouldn't have done this purchase or whatever, he may be kind of standing in there trying to love her well. Right.

That may be what it is. Yep. But that's a different thing than to say, you can't afford it, and you need your portfolio to grow. It sounds parental, and you're not my parent, you're my financial advisor.

Yep.

And so you don't, it talks, the relationship you always want with your financial advisor

is not parental. It's teacher. So it's like, I worry about you if you're going to spend $2 million and you've got seven. I think that's unwise.

“I think you're going to make some, I think you're going to regret that.”

And here's why, here's how that destroys your nest egg and messes with it. But you also could say to her, and still saying you can't afford it, you know, hey, you just lost so-and-so, you know, a year and a half, two years ago, and make sure you're

Yep.

And I'm worried about you, and I care about you.

That would be an okay position, because that's a brotherly position, rather than a parental position. Oh, God Carolina called when George Campbell was it on, because he'd be lying. Oh, God, because George Campbell was no horse guy. He has, he's on all the way.

I think he would even tell Caroline, she can buy the horse. He would, but he would, he would be, because he's on all the way. He's on the, he's on the hate list of all the horse people websites. Hey, George Campbell here, a few years ago, someone stole my identity. And let me tell you, that is not a quick fix.

It takes hours on the phone, piles of paperwork, and a whole lot of stress trying to untangle the mess. And even after that, there's this nagging paranoia, because your information is already out there.

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How are you guys doing?" "Better than we deserve. What's up?" "Okay.

“So my question is, I don't even know where to start.”

I've just recently learned about you and started watching a few of your videos. And I saw the baby steps video. And I know that stuff won't say the $1,000.

My problem is I have absolutely nothing.

And when I say I have nothing, I mean, like, where it was due to today, I get paid tomorrow and I'm still going to be $300 short. And I don't know where to start. But I don't want to hear about it. Or how did you get to this place?"

I was an ad home mom taking care of my kids and so when I got divorced, I was working a part-time job, I had no benefits. And I have a decent job now. What do you make now? I bring home about 2100 a month after taxes, which is in great, but it does all

for benefits. And you had nothing in the divorce, Heather? I did.

“And what I got, I used to pay off one of my student loans, which was about $30,000, but I still”

have probably about $20,000 in student loan debt, which also scares me because I heard you say I'm one of your videos, do not take out a student loan because you can't get rid of them. I can't get rid of them. I can't get rid of them.

I can't get rid of them. What's your-- I get rid of them by paying it off. How long have you been divorced? I was all over three years now. Okay.

And do you have kids? I do, but they're both adults. Are you getting any alemoni? No, I don't get any alemoni, where I'm at. That's not a thing.

Are you-- the screen says you're in Chicago. Are you in Chicago proper or are in a suburb? I'm actually in Indiana, but they asked what the close-ups need your student loan. Thank you. That's why I ask.

Because that's what-- Yeah. So Indiana, you don't-- Well, I mean, she's not got anyone who attacks us. And probably a little bit of an economy, micro-economy, that you're sitting in versus in

Chicago itself. More likely, you can make it on 2100 there than you could downtown Chicago. That's my point. So, yeah. Barely.

Yeah. What are you doing? What's your job? Um, so I work for a major healthcare company, and I work in a call center for them.

Good. Okay. Good for you.

“Is there-- how long have you been with them?”

Uh, it'll be two years in March. Two years. Okay. And do you see more word progress at that company to get-- to get your income up to move up?

Yeah. Like an October-- so I started, you know, almost two years ago, March, okay. And then six months later, I got a promotion within the department and got a a pair of Aries. And now it's nearly so now in October next month, I'll get a review again and get a pay

increase, but I don't know what that'll be. And you're working 40 hours. Yes. At least.

I offered over time the first of every month, and I always try and get at least eight

“hours of over time and depending on what day of the week the first falls on.”

Okay. So, so you're bringing him 2,100 a month. How much is your rent? My rent is 13, 20 a month. So, I'm in an apartment, and that's typically what the rent is going for in any

safe neighborhood. Okay. The bad news in your overall situation is you're described it accurately. This is a really, really tough spot that you're in. The good news is this is the worst it's ever going to be.

I don't know. Oh, I'm promise you. I promise you. So you've got two hurdles that I hear, and we'll see what Rachel wants to add, or subtract from that, hurdle number one that I hear is you guys were married a long time,

your heart is broken, you're grieving, you're angry, and you're still healing from getting muddy boots trampling on your heart. And with that part of that healing is getting your personal confidence up to say I'm going to win again, chapter two of my life, the encore after the curtain comes down and the curtain comes back up, the encore is going to be amazing.

I just haven't figured it out yet, and your heart hasn't gotten to that yet, that level of belief. But I will tell you this, I've been doing this about 35 years, and I've seen ladies at exactly your age, have the best decade of their entire life overall. But certainly including income from 53 to 63, I see it all the time, because of the stuff,

the gravel that is in your belly, you got the right stuff inside of you, you just don't believe it again yet.

And as that starts to wake up, you're going to go be somebody you never even dreamed

“you would be over the next 10 years, I've seen it happen over and over again, okay?”

So I see that in your future more than you do at this moment. So that's one hurdle you've got to overcome. The second hurdle is we've got to work on this income, because you're starving to death. You've got to pick up overtime, side jobs, everything else. You got no margin in this math.

This math is hard, hard, hard, hard, hard, so, and so, you know, and if you had another $2,000 a month coming in, your whole life would change right now. Because the difference in 2,141 hundred in your world is so huge, I mean, working all the time at something that's moral and legal and makes good money, starting with all the overtime you can get, not just eight hours, I want eight hours a day.

How much will you work me? I need money, okay? And this is not a way of life for the next 10 years. This is for the next six months. So you can pile up a little money in the corner and know you get to eat next month, because

you live from fear to fear, hand to hand, mouth to mouth right now. Agreed? Yeah. And if you had $10,000 in the bank, your whole attitude, the way you walked down the street would shift, and it'd be part of your healing as well, which I really desire for you

after talking to you. I think you're special. Yeah. I mean, it's from the financial standpoint, how they're fighting for that piece, and having some safety, that's your next goal.

At this point, yes. I'm not worried about the $20,000 student loan. I'm worried about Heather having a little margin, a little wiggle room, or a lot of wiggle room. I'd like for you to just kind of slosh around in the cash for a few minutes, like you've

just got a little pile of it for the first time in a while.

more or whatever it is you're having to choose between, I mean, yuck, right?

I mean, this is tough right now. These numbers are hard.

“So I'll tell you the other thing I would do is I would make sure if I'm you, I would”

make sure I'm plugged into a good church, and get some people around me that begin to love me and believe in me, and that don't mind if you scream and cuss a little bit. Don't mind if you cry a little bit, and they might take you to dinner occasionally, and just tell you what I've been telling you for the last few minutes that you're a child a God, and I see a good future for you, and I'd like for you to have that in your life,

too. Yeah, and I do, I do have a wonderful, a wonderful church fan I do. Yeah. Well, lean on them, lean on them, they, they, you know, it's an opportunity for them to love someone well, and I'm not saying become a permanent charity case, but girl, you

in a hurt right now, and it's okay to be loved while you're in a hurt, you know, and

then later on you're going to be to have a, you're going to have 10 million dollars in

the bank and you're going to find a Heather somewhere, and you'll help her. That's right. Amen. But yeah, you're in an exhausting place, Heather, emotionally, financially.

“The hours you're going to be working, it's going to be tiring, but even if you can put”

a hundred bucks a week away, I mean, you look up in two months, you're like, there's 800 bucks, like that, that even in of itself is like, okay, we need some moving progress. I need the math to get me back from the edge of terror. Yeah. If you're shopping online in these days, everybody does.

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York City. Hi, James. How are you? I'm better than I deserve a day prior you doing. Just the same, sir.

How can I help? I'm glad to hear that. I'll go right into it. It's great to talk to you up the listen to you for about a year now watching your show. Every day while I run.

Thank you. About eight years ago, I started trying to buy a real estate, you know, with, you know, saving 20% to 30% down payments, and borrow money from friends to be able to buy. I know it's a huge mistake now, and it's not what TikTok said that it is. In the same time, my cousin, Ash, Ramone, to do the same, and I borrowed about 300,000

dollars on her behalf from my network so she can also grow her portfolio. That's forward to now with the data to the opposite of what TikTok says. I am also married, and we are planning a wedding next year. I paid off over 600,000 dollars with the data that I borrowed from my friends after listening to you guys for the last two years, and I also have about, I also have five of my rental

properties. And I am paid off. Wow. That's amazing. And I am working.

Thank you. And I am trying actively working towards becoming debt free with all of my real estate and all of my debts. Amazing. I do have some debt outstanding.

And I still have, so I paid off all the debt that I bought from friends, and I only have more gauges on about 15 of my rental properties. But the balance that my cousin borrowed is still outstanding, and she hasn't made any interest payments, and over 18 months, and she also got, she got for clothes on over houses. And with the wedding to pay for next year, newly married, I am thinking, should I sell some

my wealthy to pay off her debt and start over from scratch, or should I wait it out and pay it off a little by little?

“Did you borrow the money on her behalf or she borrowed money?”

You had $300,000 cash that you lent her? So the same people that I borrowed from to start my own portfolio, I borrowed from them. So that I can get to her, and I think it's fairly easy to figure out, she's not going

So you're going to have to, so I am on the hook for that. Yeah, so how are you going to pay the $300,000?

Now, the numbers you're throwing around are amazing, congratulations on your change in direction.

So you paid off $600,000 already. How did you do that? A little by little, I just been saving a cash from the wealthy income that's been coming in, my regular W2 job, and I also sold a couple houses in what period of time did you pay off $600,000 doing that?

Two years? In the last 30 months.

“Okay, so why could you not just continue on that track and clear there's 300?”

I still have 15 houses with my relatives on them, but you paid off $600,000. Well, in your current situation, you paid off $600,000 in 30 months. Right? Yeah. And you sold a couple properties in your cash flow of the rest of it out of the rentals,

right? Yeah, so you've still got that cash flow, and you can sell one other rental or two other rentals and do that.

How much are you making a month, James?

They vary, it's usually anywhere between 20 to about 28,000 after more of your utilities and taxes is paid off. And then your personal W2 income is what? 180,000? Yeah.

Good job. Okay. Well, so overall, let's just say this, okay. You've got 15 still mortgage, you make a 108, you're got cash flow because you've got a bunch of them paid off and you have $300,000 on secured loan hanging over your head

like a knife. And so that I need to clear, that's the overall picture. And so what I do in that overall picture, not just the 300, but everything else, I would lay out a game plan and say, in X number of years, I want to be 100% dead free with my real estate portfolio.

Now, what I would suggest you do is play with the math because you're good at it.

I've been listening to you, you've got this dialed in.

You know where you are and you know how you got there and so this is a gift you've got. You like math riddles almost, right? So lay out the math riddle and say, how many properties do I have to sell and which ones

“would I sell, of the ones that are more gaged in order to be 100% dead free in three years?”

Because the 15 that have mortgages also have equity. So you don't have to sell them all to clear the mortgages. You would sell the ones you hate the most or that have the most equity because you want to get the most traction in this scenario. Okay.

So let's just use an example. I've got a cell seven of the 15 that are more gaged to clear the 300 grand and clear the other eight and I can do that in three years. Well, that's one thing to consider. What if I waited and went a little slower and I took five years?

Oh, then I've only got a cell five of them or whatever the number is. I'm making that number up is probably not that far off. But you know, lay you out of three year plan, what would what would have to be true, what would I have to sell and what would I have to do with the cash flows to clear the 300 grand and to clear all mortgages in three years?

Well, what would I have to sell, what would I have to do, what would have to be true to do all mortgages in five years? And then you decide which one of those programs you want to work. I'm okay with either one of those two. I'm going to stay in death the rest of my life.

That's in which one would you have? But you're not, you're not urgent right now. No. No. Because the 300.

Because it's real estate. But if it was credit card debt, we'd be having a different discussion or student loan debt. Yeah, but he's got the ability to retain some of this portfolio. He doesn't have to destroy it.

Yeah. You don't have to burn it down. Yeah. To clear it. Because you've already made progress on my idea.

Yeah. When it wasn't, when it wasn't to my idea, right? Yeah. So I've been trying to pay it off. Yeah.

I've been fooling mainly focused on like my own debt, but now I'm just thinking, there's just no way that she's ever going to pay it back. Honey, let's just change, let's just change the name on that. That is not her debt. You borrowed it.

What you did with it was really stupid, but you borrowed it. It's your debt. You gave it to an incompetent real estate investor who happens to be kind to you and you lost your money that you borrowed. So it's not her debt.

She's not going to pay it. How's the, how's the, does she talk to you James? She feel bad about it? Not at all.

“I think there were Alicia this frame there.”

So, um, yeah. I have no point. There's no time to just want to return. Colds on return. Oh, wow.

Okay. So she's not working. Yeah.

I mean, you're not getting 300 grand out of this check.

Not at all.

“That's why I want to hear everything to get out of the stadium.”

So you need to pay your 300 grand. You've already paid 600 of your 900 and now you've got 300 left to go. Another example of co-signing don't put your money to relatives. And they say worse and lowening money to relatives is lowening money to relatives that you borrowed a long time.

I know, but it's that same idea that I'm having to step in the middle of your debt situation, a co-signer taking out a loan on behalf of someone else. Yeah. Yeah. Not great.

Yeah. So I'm sorry, James. Yeah, it's awful.

And then it destroys the relationship.

“I think you're going to be, I think you're going to end up with the property that you have”

now the step for a plus some portion of those 15. And he's got five. So enough. Or is to pay five properties paid off? Thank you.

I could clear it all. Yeah. I don't know what the equities are in. Yeah. But you start running the mouth out on that.

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“Larran is in Houston, Texas, high-larran, how are you?”

Better than I deserve, what's up? I was wondering if it's worth living almost paycheck to paycheck and saying where we are to work for getting to owning our family's business or should my husband change his job into something that we can live a little bit more comfortably. The business cannot afford to pay him what he is worth.

Not at this moment due to how his father and his mother are spending the profit. Okay, that's not the answer.

The answer is the business can afford to pay him a proper amount because it would just

simply make less profit. So for instance, what does your husband do with his company? It's a telecommunication company. He's a lead technician. What does a lead technician make in the marketplace in Houston?

I think, honestly, it's around 32 an hour. Yeah, that sounds about right to me. What's he making now? Pass that, 16. Okay.

Oh. And so, so here's the rule, okay? Then if he leaves and they want a technician, they're going to have to pay 32 an hour. They're not going to be able to hire someone to do this job for 16. Right.

Yeah. And so, what we teach people on trade leadership with family businesses, you pay the family member market rate for the position. And we discuss future ownership, not instead of future ownership. So I can go on a cruise and you guys are starving.

All the employees and the most one employees making is 19 an hour.

So they're underpaying everybody. Well, no, no. They're not our everybody would laugh, so something's wrong with your numbers. It's because they've got people with, I guess, history behind them that makes it very hard for them to find other jobs as in like a criminal background.

Oh, okay. So they're kind of grandfathered if you leave you won't find anything else for your shenanese situation. So more out of desperation, these people are saying, yes, kind of what you're saying. I'm there helping in the office.

I mean, I'm basically taking over the office.

I'm getting 16 an hour, so I'm just what he's making, plus I'm about child care, that you're not saying anything on my hand. Okay. What's your husband? What does your husband say about all this?

Is he just satisfied like you are? No. I guess what we like were, we're getting it to be, I guess getting the business to be for him or hands. So he's willing to put up with it in order to own the business.

He is. Yeah. When are you supposed to own the business to offset the pack that you're being paid half of what you're worth? By the end of next year.

No. Okay. So not five years.

So what kind of profit we're going to profit does the business make?

We can take how many were between the 40 to 60,000 a month. Okay. And you won't trade that for $16 an hour for a year? I guess my issue is, what kind of slowly getting behind on our bill situation? And my in-laws are, we're refinancing everything so they have better cash full because they

are lacking up a bunch of credit cards and things like that. So that you don't have to take it out there on banks because they have a card and they've got so many loans to try to catch up and they're just not, I guess doing it right? How are they going to give you this business? It sounds like it's all a piece.

“That's why I'm in the office putting everything together.”

I guess getting the business up to date. It's a data account that telecommunication company. So I mean, it is a very needed, I guess, in this case. And they have retirement, Lauren. But they're making $40 or $50,000 a month.

Yes. $600,000 a year. Yes. And why are they able to refinance anything or are they just paying it off? Because they've got 6,500, I guess, a month going towards a line of credit that is at 75%

interest that I keep telling them to pay off if they're like, well, what if this happens and they will rack up another credit card or I guess they're very stubborn and I'm slowly getting to them to be like, OK, today have retirement. Lauren, I'm scared in a year from now. They're not going to have the ability to walk away from $40 to $60,000 a month.

I know, but within the end of the year, how I'm getting things kind of refinanced into every way, like, when we're interest rates, we are- OK, let's stop. Let's stop. You're all over the place, all right.

These numbers aren't adding up anymore, OK?

“So here's the thing, if you could too, you and your husband can sit down and see a path”

to becoming the owner of a business that makes $40,000 a month net profit and if we believe that the parents are going to be in a condition to hand us that in 18 months, yes, I would sacrifice to get that. But everything you go back to sounds like you're bitter and mad towards them and you think they're stupid and I really don't care about that in this conversation.

The conversation is your husband underpaid, yes, he's underpaid, but that's a great deal to trade $16 an hour for $40,000 a month, profit a year from an hour, 18 months from an hour. That's a bargain. But I'm not sure that you believe that that's going to happen because I think you think

they've got so much debt and other things going on that they're never going to honor

their word and walk off. That's what I think is really going on. You don't think this is going to happen. Is that true, Lauren? Yeah, that is pretty, it sounds true to me.

Yeah. Yeah. You're throwing so many darts in these balloons that there's not anything here for the clown. I mean, it's just that nothing left.

So you've got to sit down with them and figure out where we're going next and how we're going to get there and you've got, so if I'm going to stay, I've got to see a path that is logical on how we're going to get there in 12 to 18 months.

“And these people sound just why if they can't help you with that path, you should leave them”

and let them have this circus. Yes.

Like on paper. This is like a very vague. Like I jumped in and helped for a little while now I'm running the whole stinking thing. And they said they're going to give it to us, but they've got a 75% interest line of credit. What are they dealing with?

The mafia? I'm a god. And so, you know, and who wants to keep that around like it's a pet? So this is so illogical. There's so much crap going on in this conversation.

So yeah, you've got to comb through all this stuff and go, when we get the business,

here's what we're going to have to pay off, because you won't have paid it off.

And here's how we're going to operate it.

“But if you can trade $16 an hour for $40,000 a month in 18 months, you should make that”

trade. But you've got to be under the place you believe that's going to happen. And like Rachel said, it's written down. Yeah. And that they have the ability to hand you a business and they can go off in retirement.

I don't think they have money. I think they're broke. I think the whole place is a lot more broke than everybody is. Yes. I'm like, I'm not sure.

I believe the $40,000 a month thing anymore.

Well, see, I don't think you keep 75% interest around. I mean, you'd have to, your parents would have to be cousins to want to keep 75% interest around if you're making $40,000 a month. Let's just keep that. We might need it.

You know, that's just, that's just ridiculously stupid. So I don't believe there's something wrong in this. And I think Lauren has figured out that there's something wrong with this story. And it's not all adding up. And it doesn't add up.

“That's what she's figured out and that this is a trap.”

And so you don't want to be in the business of rearranging the deck chairs on the top hand. And if, yes, and if you have to be at a place in your life where you make $40,000 a month in order to keep payments afloat, you're broke, but you're not like, "Yeah, that's not a profit, that's just your, your, your, your, your, your money at $40,000 a month, the bank

does." Yes. And we don't need that. No, no, no, no, no. And I kind of think that's what's going on.

I think these people have leveraged this thing to its eyeballs. So I can't tell because Lauren doesn't really know, but she smells a skunk and it's usually because there's one in the area. So that's what you're looking for. We got a lot of metaphors in that one.

“And say, circuses, clowns, balloons, skunks, good luck, Lauren.”

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A lot of them are family owned businesses. I'd just spent the weekend with 34 businesses that were averaging about 20, 25 million dollars each annually and in coaching them over the long weekend and last weekend that's where I was. So when we talk to them a lot last weekend and every time we're with them about succession planning, about handing to the next generation or selling or whatever it is you're going

to do. So a couple of rules, a couple of principles you can go by in family business.

Your family is cray cray, expect the business to be cray cray.

If your mother-in-law is operating in the business and she's nutty, expect her to be nutty when she's at the office, people don't suddenly become smart, well-regulated, relationally brilliant when they walk through the doors of a business. When at home they're absolutely, can't find their way through a kindergarten. And so you're not going to have crazy people that operate a business well together.

And that is where family business gets a bad name. Don't ever go to work for family, but it's because your family was crazy. That's why you say that. And so no, but we work with family every day and we love it. And we have some fun.

We argue about things. All that kind of stuff.

We have conflict like anybody else.

But we have conflict resolution skills too. Hello. And we know how to lay out a plan and execute the plan and be in alignment and everybody be in agreement. This is what this looks like and we're going to do it.

So if you're going to enter into a situation like our last caller, Lauren, the thing that she and her husband did wrong, they were just like the convicts that mother and law hired. They didn't have any place else to go. So they took a $16 an hour position that should be paid 32. And agreed to it and then later, wind about it.

“So you need to enter into that whole thing and say, okay, the only reason you need to”

increase, and I would take this is because I'm going to get to take the business over.

Now, what does that look like and come through the exact details?

You can't vaguely promise off in the distance, something that no one believes because they leave. And that includes your own children. And especially in that situation, expecting to take over the company in 18 months. Like, yeah, that's, I mean, fast period of time for all this fascinating, that the daughter

and law who's running operations calling here is like, how, how do you get the other people to work for 19? Oh, they are convicts who can't get a job anywhere else. I mean, that, she just dropped that and kept driving. I mean, that's a mic drop and just kept driving.

It's a very nice thing to do to get people back on this really sweet, but I'm like. And that's your husband's in the same category. Yes. Only he's not a convict, at least as far as we know. Well, taking advantage of people is what it feels like.

What it sounded like. That's how I wish you could. That's what she believes. And so this is who you want to work for. I don't think so.

So you need real clarity.

“You need to have exactly what the plan is and so forth.”

And a good rule of thumb folks, if you own a business, you want people in the family involved, is to pay them what the marketplace demands. And so if you have a son going to work for you and he's going to be a software engineer, you pay what software engineers may. But more or not less.

And then you say, as you grow in your leadership skills, we can talk about you taking over this business someday, but today you're a software engineer. Today you're a tech, he was a tech. And so that guy, you know, her husband. So today you're a tech and you make $32.

Because that's what the marketplace demands if we weren't hiring convicts. And so that's fair. And if you're going to go in and take the operational position, it's not a $15 hour job. The COO of a company that makes $500,000 a year profit does not make $15. That's ass-in-ine.

So no, we're not going to do that. We're going to figure out what this position is worth and you're going to pay me that amount. And the only reason we're taking these two positions, instead of working somewhere else, is because we have a two-year plan for this to be handed off to us. And the six debts that are laying here will be paid off by that time out of the profits,

so that you don't hand us a pig in a poke.

“And so you have to lay this out and have a dad gum clarity, but it's this vague throwing”

grenades over the fence and wondering what blows up stuff has got to stop. Which is like, into me, it's your fault, too, for taking the deal. And this is a big deal from 16 an hour to 40 to 60,000 a month. I'm like, this is the biggest jump ever. And the fact that you're not, it's not so buttoned up, where he's made, right?

Like, that's, that way, I mean, he's pretty happy. She's pretty sure it's not going to happen, because she thinks they've got so many other things going on that nobody knows about, and 75% interest, I mean, all these things. So back to that, but anyway, so the point being for Lauren and for anyone else entering these things is, I would say market value is fair to be paid, and it's who we pay at Ramsey

And that includes, you know, these people get paid, Rachel gets paid on the same schedule

that Deloni and George gets paid on, same schedule, same percentage of speaking fees and books and everything, okay, all that. So no change there at all, then as you become an owner, you can participate in the profits, in addition to you being paid for your position. And that's a proper way to do this, and then lots of communication and lots of clarity,

where there's not lots of clarity and lots of communication and people aren't relationally functional, you're not going to have a completed succession plan, it's not going to work. And so I don't think that one's going to complete, because of all the things, all this stink that Lauren smelled, but also Lauren and her husband entered into this improperly. It's on them too.

Yeah, they shouldn't have taken these positions.

“You should have said, you should have demanded up front the way we come in here is where”

we see a clear path to ownership in 18 months, and an ownership of something we actually want to own, okay, so we're going to clean up whatever mess is doing here during the 18 months, you're going to pay me accurately for being the COO, you're going to pay him accurately for being a tech during that time. And if you can't do all of those things, you're showing, including a clear path, then we're

not going to come over here. And that's the thing that should have been decided up front. But now you're in, and now the thing is going down the toilet, and you're riding, you get to go on the ride.

Jonathan is where this Jonathan is in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, hi Jonathan, how are you?

Hi, I'm good, thanks for taking my call. Sure, what's up?

“So we made our last mortgage payment yesterday, instead of in 2051, as the bank thought we were”

going to. Wow, Jonathan, congratulations. Why did it go? That's amazing. So, yeah, you're content really motivated us to put some pep in our steps there.

So I like things with engine and wheels, and I've had nine motorcycles and 60 cars throughout my life, and plenty more to come Lord Willings. So my question naturally is about the 50% rule. We have a fund separate from everything else that's just for toys, right now it's got about 45,000 in it.

But my wife and I are not especially high earners, so it's a brand new network right now is 715. Okay, so I'm working on buying a new thing, just just you know, around them to where they come and they go, there's like a lot of different experiences, but if I upgraded my daily, I could barely touch the 45, and if I used the whole 45, we'd be already above 50%, so

does that rule apply in baby steps 7 or what advice would you give for me? The rule is based on the principle that the more you have tied up and things going down and value, the harder it is to build wealth. Yeah, so fix that. Don't put so much in things going down and value that you go backward.

You've gone forward beautifully, don't stop going forward, right? So there's no magic to the 50% in your situation, I don't care, but just don't put so much stuff in and stuff money and stuff with wheels and motors that you go the other way, because you got confused about where this wealth came from. When it comes to your health insurance, one of the biggest mistakes you can make is believing

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student loans, you don't need more shame. You need a plan why refie helps borrowers explore refinancing options with low fixed rate and payments based on what you can afford. Go to why refie.com/Ramsy by not being all states. Today's question comes from Matthew and Michigan.

I have a car worth $20,000 that's a need of a $5,000 repair to replace the head gasket. Is there a rule of thumb to determine if a repair expense is too much to pay percentage wise for a given car's value? Yeah, usually it doesn't come with a car that's expensive, though, so the thing that we've

always taught here on the areas, let's say you've got a $5,000 car and you blow a head

“gasket and you need to spend $3,000, not $5 to put a head gasket on, and so I'm not”

going to spend $3,000 on a $5,000 car. Here's the formula. What can you sell the car for as is with the loan head gasket? In the case of the $5,000 car, the loan head gasket, you might get two, you might get three. Let's say you could get $3,000 for it.

If the value that you can sell it for plus the repair is more than the value after the repair, you don't do the repair. So, let me recap, if it's a $5,000 car after it's repaired and you can sell it for three and the repair is three, that would be 6,000, you would not repair that car. You would take the three from selling it, put the three you were getting ready to spend

on it and buy a $6,000 car instead of a $5,000 car that you have after you're finished with this. That's how you do the formula. Now, Matthew, I do not know what your car is and I'm an old redneck that used to put my own head gasket on and replace my own motors and cars back when I knew what the car

was when I opened a hood now, it might as well be a spaceship, I have no idea what's in there now.

“So, I don't know what I'm talking about but $5,000 sounds awfully high for a head gasket”

on a $2,000 car. I am going to shop that, good rule of thumb folks is car dealers are the most expensive shop by in most cases as much as double. So finding a local independently owned shop like Christian Brothers is one that we endorse so know the bunch of those guys to franchise their independently owned shops in your market.

And someone like that, they're honest, they do a good job, you go in there and find it honest, good, local mechanic and let them give you a bid for a head gasket. But I don't know what the engineers, I don't know what the car is, there may be a complication with that. But for $2,000, I'm fixing it.

I'm fixing it. You're fixing it and I'm probably fixing it for three and I'm going to fix it. Yep, that's what I'd say. That's where I would go to. Alright, Jan is in Detroit.

Hi, Jan. How are you? Hi, I'm good. Thanks for taking my call today. Certainly how do we help?

“So I'm calling because I'm 46 years old, I'm single, I've never been married, all my life,”

I've always wanted to get married but I haven't found anyone yet and I've been holding

off on buying a home because I've always had this dream of buying my first home with my future

spouse. And as I've gotten a little bit older, I'm starting to wonder if I need to rethink that plan. I did want to mention also that this is something I'm thinking about for the future because I can't really do anything at this moment because I am currently laid off.

But I'm hopeful that I'm going to get a new job very soon and I'll be back to normal, making money again and back in my, and I can move forward with some of my goals that I've got here. So I've had a lot of time to think in the last eight months that I haven't been working as I've been eight months since you haven't had a job.

Wow. Yeah, I was laid off in December of 25. How are you living? How are you paying bills?

So I was able to live off of unemployment for the first six or seven months and then I was

also given a pretty generous severance package. So once my unemployment ran out in July, I've been starting to chip away from my severance package. Okay. I've been very thirsty.

You need to land something don't you? Do you have any debt, Jim? I do not know. Not anymore. Yes.

Good for you. Any savings? Yes. Yes. I have savings.

I have a total of 394K in retirement between a traditional and Roth IRA. Good for you. And I have 31K in a non-retirement mutual funds, and then I have in my high yield savings,

And that's what I've been.

Okay. Wonderful. And then my last job.

“My income was 14K, and I'm hoping that my next job is going to be something similar”

to put me in a good position again. Yeah. Should she wait for you to marry to buy a house? No. Well, I was going to answer her question.

Yeah, no. No, Jim. I just checked off the box as you're deaf free. You have savings in the bank. And as long as you have a good down payment, I would move forward for sure, because owning

your home is going to give you a level of stability. And it's going to continue to add to your net worth and your wealth building process.

And here's the thing, too.

It's just a house. If you meet a guy, and in two or three years, you're like, okay, things are moving. And we've got to, we've got to sell a move. That's great. It's just a house.

Like, you can do that, but no, I would not wait. You don't have to keep a house forever. Yeah. So if you meet somebody at Rachel's point, and this house doesn't fit into the new plan, sell it, and then live the part of your dream, where we buy something together.

Okay. Yeah, you're two, two successful, Jim. You got it. Like, getting in the market now, and seriously, and being a homeowner, women are now outpacing, single women are now outpacing, single men, and homeownership.

Oh, really? Yeah. Almost double. Yep. You're kidding.

Oh, that's, I did not know that.

Okay. So single women are buying homes, making a life for themselves. And again, I pray that your prayer comes true, and that you do find someone and meet someone, and that's the case, then great. You can sell, you can move into your place, you know, whatever it looks like for you guys,

“but it's not a, it's like you have to be married to this house.”

No pun intended, charisma is in Sacramento, Icarism, how are you? Hi. I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve, or what's up?

I was calling, I'm working the baby steps among almost the end of Baby Step 2. I do know that I have to save, you know, my emergency fund still. But I know that a house, like saving for a house is Baby Step 3B. And I have been, I guess, planning ahead, trying to figure out how I would do that. I'm a single mom of two, on a $50,000 income, and houses in my area, like one-down houses

that have been gutted out, or at the minimum, like $300,000, they are, you're right. They're extremely expensive, I'm not a low income. I mean, I know that I could change my income, but as of right now, I'm working for my dad at a family-owned business, so I'm hoping to possibly stay, but I know that that's probably not the best financially for me.

You could make more somewhere else. I don't really have any degrees or anything in my name. But what are you doing now for work? What's further? I'm the office member.

What kind of work is it though? I do everything in the office, I'm the only office person, so I do payroll, I answer the phone, I schedule appointments, and if you went to work somewhere else, what could you make? Being an admin, being in that kind of role.

Honestly, probably the same one's out of degree. You're not really taking a pay cut, working for your dad, which is kind of what you indicated at first. I could make more if I didn't work here, you said, and that's not true. I mean, I do have 12 years of experience, so maybe not.

Probably not. OK. I don't care. It doesn't matter. Me, either one's fine.

So let's work dealing with $50,000 in common Sacramento. You're probably not a buy-in home, so it's a very expensive real estate market. Yep. So between that, that baby set 3b, charisma, and baby set 4b, we say there's not a hard and fast rule, but it's kind of that feeling.

If you know it's going to take longer than probably 3 years to save up that down payment,

“you need to start doing both, so be putting some money in retirement while you're saving”

for that down payment. So in order to be a homeowner, you have two choices. There's something to get your income up permanently, or go to an area that you can afford to live on what you make. You cannot buy a home in that area, and be very difficult with the numbers you gave me.

I don't disagree with you. Welcome back to the Ram Z Show, and the Fair Wins Credit Union Studio. Taylor is in Reno, Nevada, I hate Taylor. What's up in your world? Oh, well, I'm low.

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

What I have a feeling that I know the answer to, but why do regular ones, I think I need

to hear it from the authority to figure it out. Well, see if we can find a way for you.

“My life is in wanting to do more traveling, more fun things.”

I run a mobile sound system, so I work a lot on the weekends. So we do have off, we tend to not go anywhere outside of that. I just have a problem spending money, unless it's on something that I can use to make money. So make fun?

Yeah. So no fun for you, Taylor. I'm just kidding. Basically. Basically.

And I work as fun, so that's good. But outside of that, I mean, we spent $300 on food, or the festival this weekend, and that hurt. Yeah. You're still recovering.

Yeah.

So what is your household income, Taylor?

Uh, it probably is going to fluctuate about 70 to 100. Okay. Depending on how much debt do you guys have? Do you have money, I mean?

“The house is the only thing we owe money on for part and my two trucks are paid for.”

My sound system is paid for. So that's the, the tear I have is we want to go do things, but I want to take that money and put it on the mortgage. The nothing the mortgage from what it is, I'm on track to be at least double the mortgage by the end of the year.

Oh, that's good. So what, what time line will you have a paid off by? Uh, that I haven't calculated because it hasn't been consistent enough. I started this household venture this year. Okay.

Um, prior to it was all the trucks and the trailers. Yeah. What do you guys have in the investments at the same time? Um, savings we have a fully funded 10 cameras. We found, uh, it's just the two of us.

There's no kids. Mm-hmm. Uh, my 401(k)s are split since I separated from the Navy. I have about 80 year hand in a government TSP and then I started my own personal Roth 401(k) after I separated this kind of about 20 and it gets about 700 months.

Okay. And then we've, we've done her 401(k) up with our work to probably more than it should be um, that she's doing about 900 months plus 2, I'm going to match. Mm-hmm. Okay.

Well, I mean, so those, she's, she's saying about 40 years now. Okay. Gotcha. Um, so, uh, my 401(k) is another 500 in the mutual funds and that said about 72. Okay.

Yeah. Well, you guys are doing a great job. Um, my question would be, are you on a pretty detailed budget? Uh, so the most part, I got a, I got a pretty, pretty good grasp on it. Uh, that's not, you're not doing what she said.

You're not doing what she said. You're not doing what she said. She said a detailed budget, not a, I got a grasp on it. No, I mean, every dollar has an assignment in the every dollar app and you and your wife are looking at that where every dollar is going together and you're agreeing on it.

You are not doing that. No. Okay. So I think that's going to be your, your relief tailor, honestly.

“Because I think when you guys see where your money is going and what you have to spend,”

then when you actually give it permission to say, yeah, at the beginning of the month, we're going to have a category for fun and there's going to be 800 bucks or whatever you are able to put in there and want to put in there and agree to put in there that you guys then have that number and then you can freely go and spend it as you want or a vacation, right? We want to say for this vacation, so we're going to put X amount away.

And so I think the lack of detail could be stressing you out just thinking, is this okay to do? Is it not okay to do? I would rather it be here for something that makes money, right? Like, but when you force yourself to spend, as you should, you should be giving saving

and spending where you guys are. So that's spending element needs to be in the budget and you guys need to agree on the amount. It doesn't have to be ridiculous.

Here's what you'll experience, okay?

When the two of you write it down and you say, okay, this month we're going to agree that the fun category has, I'll just make up a number, 700 bucks at it, okay? And you put 700 bucks in that category. What you're going to experience is that it's as if for you that it already got spent right then.

So when you turn around and actually do spend it, you're probably going to actually enjoy it. But the angst overspending money or wasting money on fun when I could be buying more equipment happens when you write it down, even though it hasn't left.

more fun.

And it's going to be more fun for you, more fun for her, and you do need to budget something.

But if you both agree to the number, and this month it's a little low because I need to buy this piece of equipment this month, I'm good. So it's a little higher because we don't, we're not buying anything this month.

“And so, you know, and you go back and forth like that, you need to have that in there.”

And that way she will agree to you continuing to grow this business without resenting your business. But if all of her fun is involved in you buying a piece of equipment, she's not going to enjoy this for very much longer. And right after she quits enjoying it, you're going to quit enjoying it.

That's the way that's going to work. So we need to get a plan that we can both ride this together and it's both stick to it. Emma is in Spoke and Hi Emma, how are you? Hi, Dave, I'm good. How are you?

Better than I deserve, how can we help? I had a quick question about some debt that I owe that doesn't accrue any interest.

“So right now, I owe about 9,000 on a car and I believe the totals around 52,000 on”

student loans that I had taken out. And I would have them difficult time because I was using a really intense debt payoff message and I had paid $36,000 off in a year and a half, wow, on my student loans. And I was working really hard on it but I went and visited a family member who is kind of well off and they saw how hard I was working on it and they saw how much it was

kind of taken out of me and taken out of my life. So they decided to buy all that debt for me that way I can pay it back to them without worrying about all the interest that I'm accrue.

The problem is that it's a pretty large monthly payment and right now it's not the

already been done, is that the already been done? Yes. Okay, so how much do you owe your family member that was trying to be a blessing? I think if I I don't have the exact total like on hand right now I think it's $62,000. The rough estimate.

And what do you make? Last year I'm a nurse, so I make a good amount, I made like I think about home $76,000 last year. And you have the opportunity for all kinds of overtime and you paid off $36,000 earlier in what period of time?

A year and a half. Okay, so if you use that formula it's going to take you three years to clean out the family member. Okay, I wish you hadn't done that but I'm going to lean into it just as hard because you want this out of your life as soon as possible.

Interest was not your problem and I wish you hadn't done this. [Music] Dave Ramsey here for more than 30 years I've been talking to folks on the air and I can tell you that most people are broke. Not because they don't make enough money but because they don't have a plan.

“You need to give every dollar you earn a job because when you do that something changes.”

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Our every dollar budgeting app will show you how to find extra cash, pay off debt and finally

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It's time to start your every dollar budget for free today. Go download it in the App Store or Google Play. [Music] Ramsey is taking over an entire cruise ship. Our second Ramsey cruise, 25 hundred people.

All Ramsey people will be on there. We're going to talk about having celebrating our self-talk. We're going to celebrate with them. Them having beat debt and change their family tree. We're going to do the world's largest debt free scream all together on the ship seven days.

With me, all the Ramsey personalities, plus others, Natalie Grant is joining us. We've got pastors on board to do devotional with us.

It's going to be a blast, Western Caribbean, new wealth building teachings. We're going to do all the entertainment will be us. So when you go into the theater on the cruise ship it's going to be Rachel Cruise speaking. Pretty cool stuff. We had a blast the last time we did this and it comes up in March.

“There's a few cabins left if you want to go.”

You don't go on a vacation unless you're baby step four or beyond. And you don't go on this when if you're not baby step four and beyond. You're not invited. But if you are out there and you're kicking it beyond baby step four and you want to celebrate the milestone with us, we want to do it.

I mean, we had a absolute blast. I mean, I walked around. We did pop up Q&A. We just jump up on a stage and start doing questions and answers. People would stop. We did pictures with them. There's all kinds of fun stuff happening all over the ship the whole time. You don't want to miss this. It's this coming March. You can reserve a cab in with only a $600 deposit.

Go to Ramsey Solutions.com/events and book your cabin. Now, Caleb is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hi, Caleb, how are you? Good. I think we're taking my call. Sure. How can we help? Um, so I'm 23. I mean, my wife, we have zero debt. We actually just paid off our last car. Congratulations. We're looking to get our first house.

Good. And I guess the question is, is it, is it better to get a house? Now is it better to wait and keep renting? Like, give them to say the market. I'm not exactly sure with the best option. Yes. Are you guys at a point that you're debt-free and you have a full of, oh yeah, you said you just paid off your car. Do you guys have money for a down payment? Are you just looking ahead in the future for the next couple of years?

Um, no, we have about 40,000 saved right now. We think about, we bring home about 153,000 a year.

“Okay. So you would rent, you would rent, you should, I want to keep renting. Why?”

No, I don't want to. I just want to know if it's better to rent or to buy now.

Yeah. So the time to buy, honestly, there's always no.

It's, yeah, when you are financially ready to go ahead and get in because there, I mean, home prices, they're not, obviously, skyrocketing like they did years ago. But they're not going down. No, they're up to percent. Is that what it was that we heard? Yeah, nationally, they're up to percent. But while they're up more than that, um, yeah, they're not going down. You don't want to wait on to go up.

I'm said. Yeah. So yeah, if you're ready, when you're ready, buy, um, if you want to wait a little while and say, because you want to save some money or something, that's fine. But I wouldn't wait a little while because I think prices are going to come down. Whoever told you that's full of crap. No, there's no prices. There's no price adjustment coming in the real estate market.

We have 1.1 million homes on the market in America right now. And we brought 2 million people

trying to bomb. There's been a shortage of inventory, more buyers chasing two few houses which drives prices up for 25 consecutive years. So you just don't want to get in that game. Now, we were seeing 10 percent or more increases in value a year and we're seeing two or three percent increase in value a year in the market. And yeah, so it has slowed down in that sense. So actually being a buyer right now is more for your advantage because it's now average

days on the market is 57 days. And so you actually may have the ability to negotiate and all that versus, you know, four years ago, people were offering, asking price and like in these bidding wars. So, um, so yeah, if you're if you're a buyer right now, you actually have a little bit more

“leverage, I think, to get in there and negotiate. Yeah, it's a great time to buy and don't wait”

on the rates to go down either. You date the rate to marry the house. So you can take the mortgage out today and 15 year fixed at about five and a half percent, five and three quarters percent right now. Five point, nine eight. Okay. And if it, um, let's see here. Anyway, six percent, yeah. The, um, the, if the rates go down, you can refinance. Daniel is in Washington, DC. Hey, Daniel, how are you? I'm doing well. How are you, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up?

All right. I got a, um, a bit of a family will issue that I want to get your advice on. So my, um, my mother's parents have passed away. My grandfather was lost to go. That happened earlier this year. The will, they left behind took their inheritance and one third went to my aunt, one third went to my uncle and for my mom's third, they cut it in half and distributed it

between me and my two siblings. Now the reason for this is my mom and my grandmother never had

a good relationship, um, for for whatever reason, my grandmother just never thought my mom

And, um, it, what's unfortunate is, is after my grandfather had passed away, you could tell that she

“had started to mend some of those feelings with looking back with kind of a positive outlook.”

And then all of a sudden, this will shows up and it's one final slap in the face that, um, you know, the things were just not good. Um, when I learned about this, no, and for the record,

I don't know the exact amount, um, but I would assume that my third of her half before tracking here.

It's actually your third of your third, yeah. Yeah. Um, well, it's probably around 30 to $50,000 or something in there if I had to guess. Now, as soon as I heard about this, my Instagram reaction was very firm and it hasn't changed in the month following, which is, I don't want anything to do with this. I will accept the money because I have to legally, but morally, I do not want to be a part of whatever my grandmother was trying to accomplish when they wrote this well. Um, and I just,

I don't want anything to do it. I consider it, um, to be my mother's inheritance and, and that's who it should have went to and, and I don't want to be part of it. Now, I have not

discussed this, um, with my other two siblings. Um, I, so I'm not sure how this is going to play out,

but I just kind of wanted to hear your perspective on this situation as far as how you would handle it, how, um, and just generally how you see things. Wow. You feel pretty resolute Daniel. So I would at my knee jerk, it's to say, follow your gut. If it feels like dirty money to you, you don't like it, you know, like the spirit around it, you know, and they do with it. You know, I think that you, I think you trust your instinct for you and then to know that your siblings may not have that

“same conviction either, right? So, so, and, and, and if you're free of that, what you should be,”

right, that they can do what they want. They get to do what they want to do. And you get to do what you

want to do, but I promise. Your grandmother gets to do what she wants to do. Yeah. It's her money.

She left it where she wanted it to go, but you're looking at it going, I don't want it. That's your decision. Yep. And I think I would let my siblings know, just an FYI. It's like a no pressure thing, but I'm not asking you to do this. No, but just I'm not judging you if you don't, but I don't want anything to do with this. It smells. Yep. Gotcha. You think your mom will accept a Daniel? Well, will she take it? Um, obviously her initial reaction was, you know, absolutely not know, you know,

the, you know, you've talked to her about it. Yeah, well, I mean, I was staring right in the eyes when she told me and I could see the heartbreak in her eyes. It was, it was gut-wrenching, just to see. Um, and, and I just, and of course, you know, she said, no, absolutely not, and I just put my phone down. I said, no, God has, you know, me and my siblings were all firmly middle class, we're all around, you know, each other in the same regard as far as, like, financial. I don't know,

all their details, but we're kind of in the same bucket. Well, the thing is, it's, it's what, let me, let me, let me do, let me, and I just don't feel the need to take it. Yeah, that's fine.

“You need to take a, uh, tax consultant because you're going to give $19,000 to another individual”

in a calendar year. Are you married? Yeah. Uh, I am. Okay, your wife can give your mom the other by. You give her $19, your wife can give her the other two checks. Okay, that's how you're going to execute this. What I don't want you to think is going to happen is this is going to make your home, mom's heart not be broken. Your mom's heart was broken by your grandmother, not by you. And you can't fix that money will not fix that. And this money will not fix that.

It's your decision, though. I don't want this is weird. I don't like it. I don't want to be part of it. That's your call. But don't ask this transaction to do something. It doesn't have the power to do, which is heal your mom. Hey, guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real, money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with

ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to RamseySolutions.com and try ask Ramsey today. That's RamseySolutions.com. Everyone needs insurance, but it can be hard trying to find pros who aren't just looking to

coach to make sure their market experts of your best interest at heart. Go to RamseySolutions.com/Goverage

to find the type of insurance you're looking for and connect with a Ramsey trusted agent. Josh and Aaron are with us on the debt free stage right here in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. Hey, guys, how are you? Good. Good. Welcome, welcome. Where do you guys live? North Vancouver, Canada. Oh, wow. Nice trip to Nashville. Wow. Well, welcome. Good to have you and how much

“debt of YouTube paid off? 93,451 dollars and six cents. Where do you go? How long does that take?”

25 months. Good. Good for you. And your range of income during that two years? He started at 73,000 and we're at about 120,000. Excellent. What are you going to do for a

living? I am a Baptist pastor. Awesome. Very nice. So great. You guys. What was the 93,000?

It was three personal loans, two credit cards and a family loan. Wow. I love it. Just the normal stuff. Yeah, normal stuff. So what happened two years ago that made you go enough already and do all this Ramsey stuff thing? So our daughter took Rachel's high school class, actually. Oh, yeah. In her school and she kept coming home and going, Rachel says we need to do this. Rachel says, you know, such an influencer. So not David says,

so she started looking into the Ramsey and then he got hooked. I was, I liked Dave's direct approach. I guess that's the pastor in me and I started listening to the podcast and read the book in one sitting and I did what you're not supposed to do. I went to my wife and I said, we're doing this. I don't care. And, you know, we're going to start tomorrow and she was not as on board with that right away. But we started listening to the podcast and the reason

she got on board was actually the debt free screams. So you heard it and something what happened inside you that made you think like, oh, that is inspiring. I guess it gave me hope that if others could do it, then sure we could do it too. Yeah, because you felt like 93,000 was just too much. You didn't think it was possible. It was the one area in our marriage that we struggled having conversations about because I wanted to talk about it. She just didn't want to have that.

I wanted to pretend it wasn't there. Yes. And it just, you know, I just got sick of living

“paycheck to paycheck being stressed out and she was feeling it as well. And so that's why we”

started the journey. Amazing, you guys. Okay. So marriage before, little chaotic around the subject,

some avoidance, you know, some fighting probably. What is it like now after you walk through two years of this journey together? It's probably one of our favorite topics. Yeah. We love our monthly meetings. We look forward to it and yeah. And this is totally different. Doing the every dollar budget, that app just helped us so much. And, you know, once we started doing that, you know, it wasn't like, it set us free. We were able to do what we needed to do. She was able

to buy what she needed to buy and keep everything, you know, going in the right directions. That's amazing. You guys. Well, you still move the needle at $45,000 a year. It's a lot. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. For $4,000 a month for two years. Yeah. That's really good. That's pretty crazy. It has a video game collection. So we sold a lot of that. Oh, yeah. And then he used to have. Yeah. That's true. He used to have these. And also, he started selling it on eBay. And I was like,

hey, that's pretty easy. So I started to take over that. I know absolutely nothing about video games, but I like selling them. So I'll go through things. I like selling it here. Yeah. So we do a lot of thrifting. And he's very good at fixing things. So he'll clean them up, fix them, and then I'll sell them. Good for you guys. You had kind of a side thing happening up, you know, to bring in some extra income too.

“Yes. Good for you guys. Okay. What was what was the hardest part, though, for for two years?”

That's a lot of a lot of work. A lot of cutting out things in the budget, all of it. What was the hardest part? Just saying no to things that we used to say yes to. Yes. Especially with the kids. Yes. We didn't eat out. We didn't go on any vacations. We just, you know, we lived on this little as we could possibly live. And we sold everything we could possibly sell. And yeah. So that was hard. Was worth it. Oh, 100%. Yes. Yes. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. Talk to somebody who's out there listening or

watching that is going, you know, I don't know if I want to miss out on eating out for two years.

the freedom, the peace that we have now compared to before we started. It doesn't even compare.

“And we just have so much more financial freedom. And you should just do start now one day at a time”

and you'll change your life. And this has changed our lives. So how many years you'll be married? Almost 20. It's 20. Wow. So you guys changed a whole, a whole 20 years of marriage. Do you know anything that's shift of 18? Yes. Yes. Probably the biggest change in our lives. Wow. Yeah. Does the freedom feel as great as you expect it or even better? Much better. I think better. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Once we, once we made that last payment,

it was like, okay, you know, what, what do we do now? That totally, yes. And so we're looking forward to the future. We want to pay off our home and keep moving forward in that direction. And we just, we just know it's possible now. So we know we're going to keep going on.

“And we're different people than we were before we started. So good. You know, I think that's”

such a good point though, the sense that I think some people live with debt and it's so normal. But they don't even realize the weight that they carry. Yes. And even though you all recognize it because you're like, we don't want it anymore. Still even after that final step after that final payment, you're like, that was even, it's even better than what I expected. It's like you don't even realize how much stress you're carrying when you're carrying that debt until it's gone. You're like, wow.

So good. And in your 20 years of marriage, have you ever been debt free?

I guess when we first got married the first couple of years. But then I made some dumb decisions.

I was actually investing and doing good things. And I took out our moment money and bought a car. You know, all the, all the wrong things. You started out debt free and then you became normal. Yeah. Yeah. And you have four beautiful kids over there. I can see them. What was that like for them? On the extent of you said you had to cut out some things because of them. But what was, what was it like having four kids in the house and doing this? They were actually on board.

They were very gracious with us whenever we would explain sorry. It's not in the budget this month. They, they were really good about it. Yeah. Yeah. They jumped on board and just did it with us. And yeah. I would say that they don't want to see a box of craft dinner for a long night. Which is our American mac and cheese. So it's amazing. It's amazing. Incredible. You guys. I mean, that's, that's a feat of what you all just did. Yeah.

You changed your family tree because they watched their mom and dad become heroes. Thank you.

And they'll never be the same because they, you know, Morris caught them taught. They're going to do

what you do, not what you say. And so they watched you change your whole family tree using these spiritual principles from the Bible. You preach from every Sunday. Yes. And congratulations. We're very proud of you guys. Yeah. Thank you. Very, very, very well done. All right, bring the kiddos up and introduce them and give us their ages. All right. We have Callie. She's our oldest. She's 17. Elena's 14. And then we have Ray Lane's 12. And then my youngest son, Lance, is 10.

France, you're holding up all the girls. And Callie, you're the one that brought Rachel home and started the whole thing, right? Take her off. Okay. There we go. There we go. I love it. Rachel says Rachel says Rachel says Rachel says. I know. You're probably five months into that mac and cheese. You're like dad come in. Why did I tell mom and dad about Rachel? Oh my gosh. Well done. Hey, way to go. You guys, you're a model. You're absolutely beautiful. Congratulations. You transformed your life.

All right. Josh and Aaron and the team 93,000 paid off in 25 months, making the 73 to 120 count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream. Are you ready? Three, two, one. Lay down free. Yeah.

“That's how you do it. Ladies and gentlemen, love it.”

All right. Let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey trusted agents aren't just experts who

guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first

Our scripture of the regulation 16. So then as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone and especially to those who are of the household of faith. Warren Buffett says opportunities come infrequently when it rains gold put out the bucket, not the thimble. Emily is an acronym. Hi, I'm Emily. How are you? Hey, I'm doing all right. Cool. What's up? So about two years ago, I had the last to be able job to start on the munitions business and since then, he's racked up

about a million dollars in debt. He's run out of money to run the business. Personal to a

kids worked very hard to make it work. He recently just came back to work to try and get us something come because mine's the only one. I just started a job also. So Emily, the sending machine business that he spent a million dollars on is not making money. Correct. Why? Correct. Well, um, I think you tried to buy too many to fast and he followed the Robert Kiesack UA and kept telling me you got to get into debt to make money, which I strongly disagree with, but um, he can't have just

kept going anyway. So I guess at this point, I just don't know if I should, we should be pursuing

“bankruptcy. That's what he wants to do. Personally, I feel like the Bible is very clear on paying back”

our debt. But at the same time, the business was probably only worth $450,000, so that would be

less with about $500,000 of debt. Who's the million dollars? Who's the million dollars? Who's the million

dollars owed to? Some of it's business. A lot of it is personal credit cards. He locks. You took out a couple of mortgages on our house. We don't have any equity in our home anymore. Any house? There's a rental house. We did have a rental house. We just sold one. We have another one, but it's not selling that one when we worth about $60,000, though. And how long has this been going on in only three years? A few years. Yeah. Okay. And you're done. I hear it in your voice.

You're, I'm pretty pissed. I'm very done. Yeah. Yeah. Because you and you've had to go back to work. Do you guys have kids? We have four. How old are they? 13, 12, 10, and 6. Man.

All right. Wow. I'm sorry. So there's nothing left to sell against the million that's still

outstanding. You could try and sell some of your some micromarkets and years. I mean,

“you should. But what do you would sell it for would be a huge loss? And selling the whole,”

the business as a whole, the most would be like $450,500,000 is what he's been told. So then you have half a million. And there's how much is there still a million old? Right now all together with all the debt. Yeah. We all just under a million dollars right now. He hasn't sold it yet. He has two people running it. But it's not making money. He doesn't have enough money to like so inventory. It's just okay. So if he sold it for 450, who would that pay off?

I guess it would kind of who we want to pay off. Okay. So the bending machines don't have a lean against them. The business doesn't have a lean against it. Well, he releases some of the micromarkets and he rents to own some of the vending machines. Some of the vending machines he does own outright. But most of it is in debt. Okay. I'm trying to figure out what the 450,000 would be used to pay off with. It go to he locks or credit cards. Yeah. Well, how much would that clear all of those

“rents to own machines? And all that? Or does that actually get to clean up some of your house debt?”

He wants to put any of it. I didn't ask what he wanted. I mean, what is the money going to be half to be used to clean up these machines in order for the thing to be marketable? Yes. Yes. Yeah. So you're going to have to-- You don't have to put it to the machine. Yeah. So you've got 450,000 dollars worth of debt on the machines that you would just use that money to clear that debt. But so selling it doesn't really

net you in a cash to pay off like your credit cards or your house, it just clears some of the debt that's on the machines. Correct. And get you as more than 450,000 on the machines, right?

And a $60,000 rental. No, you're right. Yes. Okay. It's not being rented. No, it's vacant.

You're trying to sell it. And it's just in there right now. Okay. So um, well, there's so much going on here. Um, and you guys have no money, Emily, right, none, and retirement, or there's no cash. You know if you drank our 401(k) because you're right. And our personal credit. Did you know there's no money? Did you know this was going on or would he make decisions and tell you later? Oh, we would agree on things and then we would go do it every

wanted. Um, eventually it kind of released it over to him and I found out because our credit card

“got declined and then I checked our bank account. Wow. How much do you make at your day job?”

Right now I'm 25 an hour working 30 hours. And what does he make at his day job?

He just started buying sweet and it's 21 hour base and he's trying to sell insurance with all state. Okay. All right. Well, if you were to file chapter 7 bankruptcy, you would have to re-sign on all the debt that is on your home including anything he locks or anything else. That doesn't go away or you lose the home one or the two. Yeah, how much is all that Emily? The he lock on the home. It's like $450,000 and I

think her home does that. We worth a little under that. So the bulk of that second part of the debt is the home. Wait, wait, wait. Let me back up. So if you sold your home and sold the business,

you would clear up 900,000 of the million? Well, our, no, because we wouldn't, we wouldn't

I'm sorry. So we owe about 450,000 out of house right now. I've bought it for money. Is that part of the million? No. The he lock is, which is like another 200,000. The personal like mortgage is only 250 right now. Okay. And so we're cleaning up 200,000 of the million. 450 would be cleaned up when he sells the business. So that's 650 is cleared, which would leave you about 350,000 in other debt. If you sold your house and sold the business. Yeah, credit card

and business debt. And the business debt, when you say business debt, what is that? Like business loan can kick it out. Okay. Well, they're signed personally. So they're not business loans. They're just personal loans he used to buy vending machines with. Now, if you sold the business for 450, are there any machines that are not included in that package? No. Can you explain all of that? That would be done. Okay. Okay. So what I'm trying to do is work through

if we if we cleaned house, because in a chapter seven, you're going to clean house anyway. And then if the other the other 300,000 or whatever gets wiped out, if he files bankruptcy. So usually when I'm getting into these things, bankruptcy doesn't do as much for you as you think it does. Because if you sold the business to sold the house, we've not got a lot left to do. And that that can be negotiated. That that can be negotiated down for pennies on the dollar versus

violent bankruptcy. So it's possible mathematically legally. You could probably work your way

“through this. I don't know, but I think you could. Okay. Just based on what I've heard. I'm trying”

to get figured all out. There's a lot of moving parts. I gotta tell you, I'm about having been through this only I was 28 years old and I was the stupid husband. Okay. I was him. I didn't lie, but I just did stupid stuff. I just went deeply in debt and lost everything on real estate, wasn't bending machines, but the same thing. And I'm more concerned about him being depressed or suicidal and I'm more concerned about your marriage than I am about any of this money.

And you're rightfully so very disgusted right now. But if I were going to coach you guys, I would coach him on throwing his shoulders back and building out chapter two of your old's life. And I would coach you guys on sitting down with your pastor with a good marriage counselor and try to work your way through this where he repents of the stupidity. And he begins a process to rebuild trust with his wife and relationship with his wife as you are very disgusted right now.

“And you should be. Yeah. You should be. But money fights money problems. Take marriage is number one”

reason for mell suicide is financial issue. So there's some, there's big. So I want, I want to take care of you two. Yeah. 90% of this discussion and 10% bankruptcy are not who cares. I try to sell everything and work my way through it. That's what's this hour of the rms is showing the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. And the meantime,

the prince of peace, Christ uses.