Inside the Celtics' Decision to Trade Jaylen Brown With Chris Mannix

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Grab yours now at StowblueCoffee.com, Amazon and select retailers nationwide. The ride we're Silla Show is presented by draft kinks today, real simple. Bonus episode, me and Chris Vanix breaking down the Jalen Brown trade. Winner go home, that's it. The cup knockout round is now. And draft kinks has you covered for every single match.

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New draft kinks customer sign up with the code Ryan. It's been five bucks to get 200 in rewards within 21 days. That's code Ryan, RYEN, in partnership with draft kinks. The crown is yours. Then extra pod this week. Chris Vanix joins us.

We're going to do 20 minutes on trying to figure out the root cause of the Jalen Brown trade. And the reaction they're for. First minutes of sports, it was traded in the open floor podcast.

“All right, I think there are bad trades.”

I don't understand. And then there are bad trades that I understand. So let's just start with you. I know no one likes this right now. But where are you today with having more information about what happened?

I'm still in the same place where I don't think this is a defensive trade as currently constructed, let's say, if this is all they get out of it going into next season, if they don't use this draft capital to go out and get another piece to this puzzle, then I still think it is one of the more inexplicable deals that I've seen in the most inexplicable deal I've seen since the Luka Dodges trade for being honest.

Mostly because I don't believe that this particular deal was going anywhere. Like I think they could have done this deal two weeks from now, two months from now. There was no market for Paul George. There this kind of package would have been on the table from Philadelphia at any point time over the next few months.

The biggest thing I struggle with is the sense of urgency that the Celtics had in getting this deal done and pushing it through as fast they did given the return that they got.

“I don't know if I'd put it in the Luka one, can you, can you still be on that?”

Since then, since then, like I think I don't think it's Luka. I think that is the most inexplicable deal maybe in modern basketball history. I think it's just what? Yeah, not having any deciding, hey, I'm going to do this in secret, only one team and not even stop this guy around who's also a father.

But since then, and before then, I can't think of a deal like this that matches up in how head scratching that it was. I'm a big believer in the talent of Jalen Brown. I'm not here really for the analytics debate. To me, championship, finals MVP, 56 win season, all these things top.

Any kind of numbers that suggest the Celtics might be better without Jalen Brown. I do think as to the why of this deal, I do think fundamentally the Celtics believed that the Jalen Brown Jason Tatum on court partnership had run its course. And I do believe they thought that there was a good chance it was going to deteriorate even further

I do think they believed that the way Jalen played last year, the all NBA

second team, the sixth place for MVP, that that was going to make it even more difficult for

him to settle into the kind of role that he would have to play in for this team to be successful.

“So I think that's that's part of the why the Celtics didn't at least for my understanding.”

I still don't understand the urgency when you're getting back a shell of Paul George who has played 78 games over the last two years. I've heard from his people in Boston that say, well, he'd look great in that first round playoff series. Okay. Well, that came after a two month league mandated vacation there, after he tested positive for a band substance. It's a little bit easier to look great in a

first round series when you've got fresh legs. All George does not have healthy legs. All George is a juncture at the stage of his career. He's he's not a lot more than that. And he has one of the worst contracts in the NBA. So I in talking to people, I understand why they why they felt they had to do it. I just still don't fundamentally understand why they had to do it this quickly when the return was when it was. We're in agreement on that. And I don't

like the trade. Okay. So I haven't done a pod. I haven't done a monologue on all of it because we had already taped everything. All right. So I don't like the trade for the reasons you said, if this is what's on the table, then wait. Now, let's get to Trinity Camp and see if somebody

“blows out an ACL. I think you could even argue, let's see how it goes. And then maybe somebody else”

thinks it's better to go ahead and acquire him. But that becomes really challenging if you're like, what if the Celtics aren't pays for like 56 wins? And then you're trading Jalen Brown in season. So that's a really tough one to pull off. It makes it look like you guys are punching, meaning the Celtics are punching on the season midway through the season. Although you could argue, you know, what's the package coming back? But if it's another team that's contending,

they're not giving you one of the really great core players and the draft picks that then add Jalen Brown. I mean, that becomes really complicated and like the rounding up. Then there's the element of, like, do you bring this guy back in with his personality? My argument before, you know, was after the youngest thing and hey, you can't bring him back, could you bring him back? I mean, like, look, he's kind of the same guy who complains and has this persecution complex, which a lot of

players have, by the way, that he's always, he's had that when things are good. So I don't know,

is it going to be that different when he comes back after some of this trade stuff? The other part that's crushing Brad here is there's a version of events where it seems like people are

“suggesting that Brad turned down Janice for Jalen, but then did it for Paul George. Or I think that's”

really, it's ultimately inaccurate because Janice wanted Miami. His agent wanted Miami. Janice's agent told the Celtics like, yeah, but not really. And then we're not doing the extension. I feel like Boston was happy to drive the price up for Miami knowing there were more desperate. But I mean, Janice has already been vacationing down there and visiting the whole time. The agent played a major part in kind of diminishing Boston's like long-term interest in this

stuff because Miami was their first choice. And it is the start of the process and made sense

when we go ahead and do that. So there's a lot of factors, whether it's media members from Boston overreacting, freaking out about it, me watching the part of my take stuff, where they've got a filly fan, they've got a Boston fan with Max and Hank and it like becomes all this content. And so there's a lot of like other factors that are making this worse, but on the Janice one, I think that's incredibly misleading. I grew at that part of the Janice one.

I would disagree on the extension stuff because I think Janice is signing a long-term extension, it would have signed a long-term extension wherever he was whenever he was eligible. Because I think Janice and his team also understand the physical risk that he has right now. You know, coming off back to back seasons, where he's had soft tissue injuries. If you're Janice and it offers on the table, whatever it may be, three-year extension, four-year extension,

whatever he's eligible for, wherever he was, I think he was going to sign that. I think any suggestion that he might not have was probably going to be a bluff. Now maybe it was a good bluff and if you're giving up. We agree with that. He's signing that four-year thing. 100%. He's not running that risk there. Jalen Brown, the idea of him feeling persecuted, it is true. I think where it differs from other stars is that Jalen Brown

it just seems like it's every year with this guy and it's not that way for other stars.

was booed by a bunch of fans that either wanted Jimmy Butler via trade or some of them wanted

“Chris Dunn. Chris drafted from down in Brown. It's like, from day one, he has been feeling like”

he has not been fully embraced either by the city at first and certainly by the organization,

whether it was the Anthony Davis trade talks, the Kauai Leonard trade talks, the Kevin Durand trade talks. So I think he's got a reasonable, he should feel okay for him to feel persecuted. He's right to feel persecuted, where this, where this feardoth is that in the past with all the guys we've talked about. It's been about those guys. It was about Kevin Durand 2022. It was about Anthony Davis. It was about Kauai Leonard. It wasn't just about off-loading Jalen Brown.

This, these last few weeks felt about off-loading Jalen Brown. And clearly, that's what this was, because ultimately, they took a package that does not make them a better team in 2026-27.

And unless they can use this draft capital to go get another player, it doesn't make them a better

“team moving forward. That's why I think Jalen Brown is more upset now than he was all those years”

ago under all those different types of situations. You can bring yourself to understand, if you're Jalen Brown, and you're being talked about to trade for Kevin Durand or talked about to trade for Janice. But if you've got the GM of the team that is canvassing the league, looking for off-making off, looking to get different things back in return, that took this situation I think to a whole other level and made it as toxic as it became.

Yeah. None of us would want this to happen to us. It's very easy for us to say, "Hey,

you make all this money, this is part of the job." Sometimes you're speculated. And there are

some players too. It's just because some random Twitter accounts suggest you're available. It doesn't mean you have to shut down mentally and feel like the team has turned their back on you. I mean, your profession is that you're an asset and those assets get talked about. And more so in this league than any other league. And it kind of comes with it. But this one was more and it was, it became far more public. But I'd say, "Jalen does have, there's Kyrie fans out there.

I was not a fan of Boston Kyrie. I was not a fan of Brooklyn Kyrie. I totally understood what he wanted out of Cleveland and I had his back. Things have been really good now since he's been in Dallas. It hasn't been kind of the thing where it's been 12 months. Like, one's Kyrie going to do something. That hasn't happened. Good for him. But they're feel like, I don't know if you'll

“agree with your disagree. But I think there's been some similarities there with Jalen Brown and”

Kyrie, where it's just not for everybody every day and it can wear you out. Yes, I can see from a personality perspective. I think the obvious difference is Kyrie didn't do anything in Boston. And Jalen Brown did a lot. You know, Jalen Brown six conference finals, two finals, a championship, a finals MVP. That protects you from a lot of things. And also, like, I mean, Jalen Brown not to sit here and just make the Jalen Brown defense on everything.

But like Kyrie does stuff in the community. Jalen Brown does a ton in the community. Jalen Brown is off the court reputation is impeccable in terms of like kind of what he brings and what he brought to that Boston community. What he brings to communities, you know, nationally. So I think that that to me is is the bigger difference in that Jalen Brown forged a strong connection with that Boston community. Jalen Brown won for the team because they don't win a championship

without Jalen Brown. Maybe they don't get to the finals without Jalen Brown in 2024. I do think he deserved better than to just be offloaded like he was some kind of toxic asset and to see his reputation track through the month. I mean, this is a elite guy with three guaranteed years left on his contract. Now, yes, it's a big number. But in today's NBA, if you're producing, it ain't that big. Like from a talent perspective, it ain't that big. I thought he deserved

a lot better than that. Bobbi Marks made a bunch of headlines when he said that a front office suggested that Jalen Brown was a seven best player. And I talked about this already because I was like, look, Bobbi's relaying that to us, you could argue that baby Bobby says this is so ridiculous, so I even share it. Then it turns into something where even Jalen Brown is responding. I completely understood about Jalen was upset. But what Bobbi was really doing was he was going, hey,

the market for him. And whatever you think of him as a player because I think we are more aligned

analytic profile. The fact that it's this big wing, they can get you a bucket when everything is

“broken down to the playoffs that you can put them on a ball handler defensively, even if you're”

down on his on-off stuff. And what it means team defensive wise over the course of regular season, like that's a real thing at this age. And I didn't really understand the urgency of like, well, he's going to want to get resign. It's like, well, look, he's under contract for three, like, real years, not team option, not player option, three, real years, like you can probably just run this back and not have to worry about this imminent contract. And because it's not nearly

as intimate, just because he's eligible for this extension July 6. But what Bobbi was doing, he was telling the basketball world of the market for him sucks. And when I had been told about a

couple of offers, I was like, oh my god, like, I would never do that. And then there's another

offer you here with teams that were involved in some of these conversations. And I was like, this is awful. So I was prepared if you was traded for it to like be underwhelming. I also think some of the other rumors of deals that sounded better weren't even a possibility. And so then it ends up being Paul George for these two picks. And maybe the 28 pick is they get lucky with it. But I'm with you. I would have just said, if this is, if it's this bad,

I'm going to wait. And Philly wants him so bad. They're off of the Paul George stuff. Like, is that the best you could do. So even if you were okay with this, which I don't think any of us are, if it's sometimes it's just like, hey, if they're not going to come down on their price, then I'll go look at another house. I'm totally fine. I'm totally fine with doing something else. And it felt like Boston deal from a position of, we have to do something, which is usually when

“you lose these transactions. I think two things on this. I have, I have not personally heard”

that the analytics of Jalen Brown were giving teams significant reason for pause. I've read it. I've heard people like Bobby Sayon, but the executives that I have talked to have not made the anti-analytics argument to me when it comes to Jalen Brown. The arguments that have been made to me is a couple of them, by multiple teams. One is the concern that if Jalen Brown is not happy in his role playing opposite Jason Tatum in Boston, will he be happy in whatever role we're going to put in it?

So if you're a team that's a contender and you've already got a franchise player. Like, is Jalen Brown going to be happy being the one A, one B to that franchise player? There was some concern about that from the teams that I've talked to. Just looking at these teams looking at it from the outside saying, well, he's got a great thing there. They want a championship a couple of years ago, they've been wildly successful on some level. He clearly wants more. He was

“obviously happy with what happened last year, as he said, on his twitch tree. That gave some”

teams that I talked to a little bit of hesitation. We're trying to build some note, the Celtics

want a player that want a couple of first round picks. If we're not certain we're getting this guy,

a happy version of this guy for the next four years, well, we're going to hesitate a little bit on this. The other thing, and this goes back to what I said at the beginning. This happened fast. This happened really fast. I talked to one team, not going to say who it is, but I talked to one team that absolutely made an offer to Boston for Jalen Browse. Good team made an offer to Boston. I talked to this to a person that front office after the deal with Philadelphia was

consummate, and they were stunned. Mostly because they knew their offer wasn't very good, but they told me this person told me that the offer would have gotten better, like that they were like raptors testing the fence here. Raptors was not a hint. There wasn't draw out, but they were, they were probing to see how low can they go? Look, nobody's going to come at you with their best offer right away, especially when the perception is that you're trying

to make a deal, and you're desperate to get out of there. You've got to show people that you've got some stomach here. You've got to show teams that you are willing to either go into the season with Jalen Brown, or that give off the perception that you do have other offers that you're

going to. You've got to create a market for a player of this type. And this team, first of the

team told me, he's like, look, we made them an offer. This person told me they thought their offer was better than what the Celtics took anyway. But they told me they made an offer, and if they said gone on a little bit longer, they would have beefed up that offer and hacks that offer to make it a little bit better. This person was really surprised, and I don't think he's the only one that was surprised, he certainly wasn't the only one, that I was surprised they were,

that the Celtics took Paul George, he's got off of contract, and two first round picks,

in 6th in the MVP, and if we get back to full form, Tatum, he's never going to have these numbers

“in that pairing. And they'll have one less year on the deal, that imagine if you're running”

this back in a year. If this is how bad the offers are now, what's that market going to be like from a year? And it was a different team. So I was pushing back, because they were in favor of it, they probably don't like Jalen Brown at all. And they were in favor of like, you can't bring them back, it's kind of a pain in the ass. It's going to be even worse with this, you know, like, you might as well just move on in the deals are probably going to get worse considering

what this guy just did. I don't know. I mean, again, it's all of us trying to understand it,

“but that was at least one position that I was given. I think that look, there's a lot of focus”

being on how this season ended with Boston, you know, they get to the playoffs, they could be

in the first round. It's a hideous ending to a very average Philadelphia team. But for what I've

been told, the the data points that the self-except have been looking at have been more about the 24, 25 season, which was a good season, but obviously one that ended badly against the New York fix. To them, the people I've talked to, the warning signs that they were looking at were more based on that season, that they believed they needed some kind of change, and that it wasn't going to get measureably better. I just don't know how you can do a deal like this and make a coherent

believable argument that there is a pathway to get measureably better. Like, maybe you're right, the offers weren't going to get better than they were right now for jail and Brown. Maybe,

“maybe you're right. I think you are, that the numbers were going to decline. That any tension”

that exists, and the tension was going to go up no matter what, based on this offseason, but a tension that previously existed was only going to get worse. To me, that still doesn't justify doing a deal like this for the kind of return that they got. Like nothing, nothing I have, I've had kind of these debates where it's like, I'm hearing what you're saying, I get it, but I don't get it. And look, what I do, and you can tell me if you agree with this,

because it's in the water supply that Philchism is cheap and private equity sucks,

and maybe all those things ultimately turn out to be true. I don't believe that's fundamentally

it play here. Like, they cut salaries last year because they should have, because they weren't a championship team, and there are real basketball reasons to get under these tax abots. I don't know how you look at this deal for Jalen Brown, Paul George, and say it's a financially motivated decision. Other than Paul George has one last year left on his contract. They're still paying a pile of money next year, and will owe a pile of money next year.

That doesn't change because this contract. So the one thing I guess I was convinced of in my conversations is that this is not financially motivated, but the basketball arguments have just been in and outside the organization have just been non-sensical to me, and I don't buy him one bit. Enjoy your holiday, man. Thanks for doing this. You got it. [Music]