How Faith, Neuroscience, and Meaning Work Together | Arthur Brooks - Free Transcript | The School of Greatness

Your brain is designed to ask all the big "why" questions on the right,

and then to solve how to and what questions on the left. And the reason people would have pressed today is because they're avoiding the big right-side questions. The whole culture of technology and hustle and grind and online presence is all about staying in the left hemisphere of the right. That's the reason that people don't know the meaning of the lies.

He is a Harvard professor, international keynote speaker, New York Times bestselling author. He spent the past two decades studying and teaching the art and science of happiness to millions of people. Dr. Arthur Brooks in the house.

Here's what's crazy about when you're living in the wrong side of your brain

because you're living in the matrix. You're living in the simulation of ordinary life. Your great-grandfather never came home and said to great-grandma. I had a panic attack behind the muel today. It's liable.

How could them start going to the right-side of their brain to find more meaning and purpose in their life rather than stress and chaos? We have two kinds of dilemmas as human beings. We have complicated dilemmas and complex dilemmas in life. Two kinds of problems.

Complicated problems are the how-to and what problems that we're dealing with all day long. Like how do I get from Orange County to Los Angeles, which I was dealing with this morning, right?

“Or how do I think about the next five years of the school of greatness podcast?”

Which we were talking about, such an interesting, complicated problem. How to and what problems? But those are the problems that you care about. Because what are we really talking about? We were talking about your babies and your marriage

and your faith. Those are complex problems which are impossible to solve. They're easy to understand and possible to solve. You only live with them. And the reason is, believe it or not, these two types of problems

are processed in different hemispheres of the brain. This is a theory called hemispheric lateralization. Which is a fancy way of saying the right side and the left side do different things. The left side does complicated problems. Like how do I get to LA?

How do I build a toaster? The right side says, "Why do I love my wife? Who's God? What's the meaning of life? What's the meaning of life?"

The mystery and the meaning.

And you'll never come to a conclusion.

And part of the reason is because that's not how your brain is designed. Your brain is designed to ask all the big why questions on the right. And then to solve how to learn what questions on the left. And the reason people would have pressed today is because they're avoiding the big right side questions.

They're not even asking meaning questions because the whole culture of technology and hustle and grind and, you know, online presence is all about saying in the left hemisphere of the brain. That's the reason that people don't know the meaning of their lives. That's this whole book.

How do you find the meaning of your life? It's go to the right side of your brain. How you do that? That's the challenge. How can someone start going to the right side of their brain

“to find more meaning and purpose in their life rather than stress and chaos?”

Yeah. So to begin with, most people don't realize that that's the problem that they're using their brains in the wrong way. Not the way that our brains have not been designed. And again, whether you believe in God or not,

our brains have unambiguously been designed with two halves for a reason. The Y half and the what and how half. And they don't realize that the our culture or technology or economy have ruled out the Y half systematically over the past two decades. So I'll give you an example of this.

You know, I started seeing this when I was out of teaching for a long time. I went to a ran a company for 11 years. Then I came back in 2019 and it was a different world. And when I left academia in 2008, academia was happier than the rest of the world. People were following it.

Love and they're making remember call it? Sure. Follow me. I'll make a friend exploring big ideas. What about the world?

Yeah. Have your mind blown? Yeah. 2019. Triple the rates of depression.

Double the rates of anxiety. Why? Exactly.

“So I started asking them and they start talking about meaning.”

It's like, I don't know what to meant to do. I mean, I'm going through them. I'm studying this. I'm doing that. I'm trying to get a good job.

But my life feels meaningless. And saying my life feels meaningless is the best predictor of depression and anxiety for people who are under 35. Saying that. Saying that.

That's the predictor. So then you start talking to them and figure out how they live. And it turns out that life dramatically changed after about 2008. Social media? Yeah.

Well, social media. But devices. The screens. The technology. Radically changed it.

You talk to young people.

They're like, second live it in the matrix.

No, it's interesting. You say that. Not to cut your off here. I saw a video recently. Speaking of being on my device.

But I saw a video talking about a guy who's probably in his 40s. If I run my age with eight, nine, ten year old son having conversation. And he said, you know what our punishment used to be growing up. You know, back on the 80s and 90s. Staying inside.

I don't know. Not being out of go outside was our punishment. And the son was like, what do you mean?

I didn't like.

I want to be a punishment for me because I want to be on my phone. Right. Computer on like. We're living the punishment voluntarily. Here's the weird thing about it.

Here's what's crazy about when you're living the wrong side of your brain.

Because you're living in the matrix. You're living in the simulation of ordinary life. Your great grandfather, like great grandpa house. Never came home and said to great grandma. I had a panic attack behind the mule today.

It's laughable because his brain was working the way it's supposed to work. They might add hard days and stress, but not this type of stuff. And here's the weirder part. His moment to moment life was actually pretty boring because he was behind that mule. But his life wasn't boring.

A lot of young people today who are living in the matrix living in the left hemispheres of their brains. Moment to moment.

“They have zero boredom, but their life is grindingly boring.”

Yeah. See, that's the thing. There's the micro boredom and the metaboard. Interesting. And that's the way to think about it.

To say, have I eradicated boredom for my life, but my life is actually boring. Then you know you're on the wrong side.

And you'll never find meaning until you can break out of that.

Because no one's actually bored anymore. Because we solve the problem. They can find, you know, all day long getting adult meaning hit on something, watching something entertaining or funny or what's next or gambling or whatever might be. Some type of hit that they don't allow for space to listen to what they're meant to do. I have a colleague at Harvard, a guy named Doug Gilbert.

You ever had Doug Gilbert on the show? I haven't, but I know that he's the world's leading expert aboard him. He's a visionary social psychologist. He's the best in the business. And he's done these experiments for you.

Bring people into the lab, young people, like undergraduates. They do anything for 20 bucks, right? And he makes them sit in a room where there's nothing on the walls. Nothing to do completely silent. They have one choice besides sitting there quietly, with a little keyfob with a button on it.

And if you touch the button yourself administer a painful electric shock. I don't know how he got through this, this is the internal review board, right? And that's all they can do, because he wants to know whether they choose boredom or shocks, boredom or pain. A quarter of the women shock themselves.

Wow, two thirds of the guys. I was like, I don't know. I can't get it down. Give me something to do with the no-man or women, right? But altogether more than half of the people gave themselves pain over boredom.

We solved the boredom problem. Your iPhone is the solution to your boredom problem, your device.

The problem is that it makes your brain work wrong, because when you're never bored,

you don't use what's called the default mode network set of structures in your brain. And you won't find meaning. You'll be in the wrong side of your brain all day long. And so if you wake up in the first thing, as your phone next to your bed, big mistake. And you'll get your phone.

Then your brain is programmed to that for the rest of the day. And so you're looking at it while you're having your coffee and breakfast. And then you go to work, which is in your guest room, which is a Zoom screen. And then you're going to date by swiping right. And then your friends are a lot of most of the social media.

“And then you do a lot of gaming because that's how you get your sense of fun and accomplishment.”

And then you're 12 hours a day online. And guess what you don't have. That's a simulated life. That's the matrix. That movie was popular.

I'm going to shock you. 27. 1998. 99. I know.

But that movie said that there was a great artificial intelligence, a mechanical artificial intelligence. That was subjugating the human race. It was sucking energy out of them in the form of attention. Keeping them in these pods and giving them a simulation of real life that was pleasant. And the reason that there's a rebellion against that is because

Neo can't have Reeves wants meaning. Lewis were in the matrix. And the one thing you can't simulate is the meaning of your life. And that's what's actually happening. So how do we start to simulate the meaning of our life?

We've got to live like granddad house. Right. Now the first thing we need to do is get clean. The first thing that we need to do is to actually break out of the addictive site. Like a cleanse.

Yeah. Like detox actually. It's what the deep times do. And the problem is you can't just recommend abstinence.

“Because somebody asks you, did I drink all the time?”

You're going to say stop drinking completely. Obviously. But you can't do that with your technology because you can't get into your bank account. And that ship has sailed completely. Yes.

Which means you need moderation. It's a much harder thing to do. But there's a lot of data. There's a lot of research. Neuroscience research that shows how you can actually moderate your device use that will revolutionize

your relationship to the devices. You can solve this problem with basically three steps. Tech-free times, tech-free zones and tech-fasts. That's what you need to do. And the tech-free times are first hour of the morning, meal times, and last hour at night.

Yeah. That's all you need. Just type those tech-free times. Why? Because the neural programming is going on first hour of the day.

The neurochemistry of what's actually happening while you eat, which is that you're looking into other

People's eyes while you're having a conversation.

We're evolved to do that over the last 250,000 years since the beginning of the place to scene, homosapiens have actually communed with their kin while they show pieces of yak meat into their mouths around the fire. If you see your phone on the table, it cuts off the neuropeptide that is occurring to bond you to others, called oxytocin.

You cut the oxytocin flow by looking at your phone. Literally so I'll experiment with the show this.

So what you said first hour, meal time was last hour.

Last hour.

“Because that's when you should be communing with your babies and your wife.”

And also you don't want to interrupt the functioning of the pineal gland, which as you know. Bellaton and et cetera. You won't be able to wind down. You'll be stressed out. So that's the time you said zones?

No. There are certain zones. This is physical zones. Number one is a bedroom. No devices in the bedroom.

And you don't just say I'm going to stop scrolling. Leave it downstairs, plugged in into closet. And take a book to bed. I give crazy idea, you got two things. A book and an alarm clock.

That's right. It's not just, I listen to the halo app. No, no, no. It puts me asleep. But it's like the morning too.

I just do it. I know. And so you got to figure out a way to get around this. And there are ways to do it with notifications. Yeah.

And then the second zone is there shouldn't be a classroom in the world.

From kindergarten through PLI. That has a phone in it. I don't understand how teachers can teach today. I don't know how teachers can do it.

“It's like allowing kids to have a phone at their desk.”

I'm really teaching when I was a kid either. It's still, but it's even harder now. And I feel like there's 27 states that still don't that have completely unfettered access to telephones and public schools. It's craziness that we do this. And it's completely lack of will of imagination and moral will on the part of politicians and educators for sure.

And then the last is tech fast. Everybody should have. I recommend spiritual retreats to people all the time. You know, Buddhist retreats, Hindu retreats Jewish retreats. I go on a Catholic retreat four days a year.

Sound retreat. No, no devices. Oh, it's man. It's like magic. It's a total plan.

Yeah. I've done a few times when I put going in vacation and I've left the phone home. It's hard. First time was like, what do you do? I was like, how do we get to the hotel?

How do I get my car? I was like, I don't know. I know. I know it's like your brain is working. The other was such an adventure.

I was like, I just stopped at a gas station and asked for direct. How do I get here? It was like, I know 90's again. You know, it's like, let's go. I feel like losing Clark.

And so the other day when that big Verizon outage, you just, where you wear this, I was in New York. And I came out of it, you know, taping a show. And my phone didn't work. It was the SOS thing.

Like what? And I had to call an Uber and get to the Newark airport and fly back to LA. How'd you do it? And so I had to find a Wi-Fi network and actually call the Uber. And there was no phone calls and there was no text.

And then I got to the airport and got on the plane. And there was no Wi-Fi on the plane for six hours. What do you do? I had the monkey in my back. I felt like I was like, it was like, what do I do?

You have to be bored. I know. Because we got to a plane and read a book. Or like a heroin addict detoxing and jail. Or something like that.

No. So that's really helpful. The first day's hard. The second day is easier. The third day is good.

The fourth day's bliss.

It's like, I never want to go back.

I know. All 40 days. Right. And all 40 days. So these are the three things to do.

The first thing you do is you get clean. Yeah. And you get clean by doing those three things. And then you start living in a new way. That systematically opens up the right hemisphere for brain.

That's really what my research is about is the six ways you can do it. And again, it's in a way it's gimmicky. Because there's six big ways that you can do it. But if you do this in six months, you'll know the meaning of your life. 100%.

Yeah.

“I think a lot of people are struggling to figure out these days.”

And I'm curious because you are such a devout. What you've been 45 years. You've been all in on Catholicism. Yeah. 45 years.

Yeah. I'm practically a cradle cathart. Right. So I'm 61. Yeah.

So people can do the math. Right. So you've been doing this for a long time all in. You go to mass every morning 6 a.m. Or almost every morning.

You know, maybe once in a while, you miss or something. But you're like in it. Yeah. But you're like best friends with Dalama. Yeah.

Yeah. And other spiritual leaders. And you actually invited me to go. No, no, no, no. I wanted to go.

Next time we'll go. Please. And so how do you navigate being all in as a Catholic? Believing what you believe. But being very close to other spiritual leaders of other faiths that don't believe

what you believe. Right. How do you co-mingle, find connection and not judge others beliefs. But also be close with them and find fulfillment and meaning from those relationships and spiritual practices as well, which are different.

Or maybe aren't in alignment with the Catholic faith. Yeah. So it's one thing to think that you're right.

It's something else to think that somebody else is wrong.

And we want to solve every problem.

The left brain solution is always, let me figure it out.

And once I figured it out, then I know that this is right and everything else is wrong. I have a right brain orientation toward my faith.

“Which is, I believe this is what God wants for me.”

I don't know what God wants for others. I don't know. And I can't know. I believe the people that God puts people in my life for a reason. I believe that you and I met for a reason.

Yeah. We met at a thing in Idaho's awesome. And I'm like, oh man, I feel like I've known this guy for years. There's a reason that you meet people that people are actually put into your life. And for you to adjudicate that in the basis of whatever beliefs that you have,

that's hubris a lot of the time. You know, it's a God put you here for a reason to meet a learning grow. And the Dalai Lama boy, boy, he told me I want you to be a better Catholic. Really? I want you to be a better Catholic as what he said.

Really?

Because he believes that that's God's will for my life.

That's what he actually believes. And I learn so much, you know, from my Hindu teachers, from my Jewish teachers, from my Muslim teachers, people that I've talked to, that made me so much stronger in my own faith. I believe my faith is what God wants for me.

I don't know what's right. I don't know.

“I just know that I believe that this is right for me.”

And I'm not a universalist. You know, God, I mean, I want everybody to be Catholic. I want everybody to go to Mass with me. Absolutely. That's the world that I want.

But that's not the world that I find. And I believe that there's a reason that I'm finding the world that I am. But it isn't part of the Catholic faith to preach the gospel and invite, and I have a crude book to convert others to Catholicism to the faith. Yes.

And there's different ways to do that.

There's different ways to be a missionary.

A one good way to be a missionary. Like I teach it, you know, Harvard University, which is not known as a big Catholic institution, right? But Boston is, isn't it? That kind of, except, you know, it's the Northeast.

It's, it's post-Christian, man. The way that I actually, I bring people closer, I believe, to my faith is by how I live my life and the excellence that I bring to things. Look, that is that enough. It's being a good person.

I think that that opens the door because people will see, there's two things to do. Be impeccable and great at what you do, and have people know that you have a strong belief. That's really important.

So people watching this are like, Lewis is on his spiritual journey, and he's going to Catholic Mass, and he's literally the best in the world it but he does. That's missionary work, right there. That's the mission field.

I mean, it's like, it's a Mormon missionary told me this one time. A guy who worked for it, the Rand Corporation. I was a military operations research analyst, early, early, early on in my career. I was doing math modeling for the Air Force.

And this guy was an old school, applied mathematician. He was a Mormon. And let her day Saint. And he told me about his mission in France. I said, you have an missionary in France.

Because they all go on a mission two years. Yeah. And I said, how many people do you convert this? Precious for you. I think there's a lot.

Precious for you. You have French, you know. Yeah. And he doesn't speak the language. He has to learn the language.

Which was there. Yeah. And he said, so how did you, how did you maintain and could attitude about it? And he said, I would say, Lord,

have a not shut the door all the way. Because he figured out that his job was getting the door open in an inch. And his beliefs were that God would do the rest. Wow.

So here's the thing. People, you meet people at different points in their own journey. You're at a different point in your journey. A lot of people watching us or different points in their journey. And all we can ask them is to not close it or completely

to open the door one inch. And if we believe what we say we believe about God and his goodness, God will do what he's supposed to do in their lives. Our job is to not close the door. And if you go in and you say, repent or die,

the door's closing. Right? That's going to close the door, not open the door. Your excellence will open the door. How do you navigate in your soul and in your mind

that if you're with the dilemma or another spiritual teacher, or anyone who's on their own journey of life, that if they don't convert and baptize and become Catholic, like they're not going to have an essentially. How do you reconcile with that?

Knowing that you care deeply and love this person, and you want them to live a beautiful life here. And after here, how do you navigate that world? Well, part of that is that there's a fundamentalist version of that. A lot of people learn in the United States, which is literally,

if you're not done, then this.

“But the truth is that Catholics in particular,”

they don't believe that. I mean, there's a lot, we believe that there's a lot of people going to have it,

Who are not Catholics or even Christians on the contrary.

They have a different set of experiences from different parts of the world,

and they're implicitly baptized effectively. And they have a lot to teach us. You know what that says is that if you're raised as a Catholic, then the standard is different for you. The obligation is different for you.

The wool began to you if you're not living up to it. Right. But that the Dalai Lama has a, you know, there's a Godhead of different plan in the Dalai Lama's life. And there's a different trajectory for what he believes.

“And so I think that it's, it's fair to say that there's a lot of ways to interpret that.”

And it doesn't have to be literal. Interesting. Do you think it's possible for someone to find meaning without having some type of faith or belief in God? Yes.

I do. And that really comes from this idea of transcendence, which is one of the six ways of finding the meaning of your life, is transcending yourself. My path isn't the only path to meaning.

It isn't. Now, religion is really, really good for this. Spirituality is really, really good for finding meaning. But what you really want us to transcend yourself, because, you know, left your device is you're going to be in a psychodrama.

Me, me, me, me, me, my job, my car, my money, my, I'm so tedious to those. It's so boring. But Mother Nature wants you to be the star of your psychodrama. I mean, think of all the dreams you had last night.

You were the star and everyone. Yeah. And what are the great truths of that we find in all of the experiments in social psychology? If I can get you to think about others, and stand in awe of something bigger than yourself,

you will find meaning. Why?

“Because that's what illuminates activity in the right hemisphere of the brain.”

You'll start using your brain in a more meaningful way. There's two ways to do that. One is to stand in awe of something greater. Our mutual friend, Brian Holiday, right? He talks about stoic philosophy.

Yeah. That's a great way to actually be looking down at, or looking at standing in awe. Walking in nature before dawn, the Hindus call that the brahma mokhorta,

which means the creator's time in Sanskrit. Without devices. Yeah. Let the sun come up as you walk. To sort of a positive meditation practice.

To listen to the fugues of Johan Sebastian Bach. To do what you need to do to stand in awe of something that's not just my little psychodrama. Right. The other way is to transcend yourself by serving other people.

It's one of the weirdest things is that we always want to serve ourselves.

But when we're induced to serve other people, then meaning pours into the vessel that is your life so much. And you've told me about this. I mean, you've been doing this people watching this show. They don't know all the service stuff that you're actually engaged in.

And you think, well, Louis House, what a great guy. Truly, truly is true. But it's also you need it. You actually need it to feel fully alive. Every day I wake up and I just say thank you God.

Thank you God. And I really reflect on the beauty, the abundance, the relationships, the health, the opportunities. Because it weren't always there. Sometimes when I didn't have those things, I really suffered for years and

decades. I had an internal suffering because I was thinking of self somewhat. Right. Oh, it'll make you suffer, baby. Suffering.

Why me? Why this? Why that person? Why am I experiencing this? Why me? Me? Right.

Now. And I had a big wake up call around 30, where I was like, man, I'm a selfish ego maniac. You know, I wasn't really, I was still a happy guy. I was like, to myself, I was like, I beat myself up constantly,

focusing on myself, share was still giving and adding value to the world. I wasn't, and I was like loving and happy and joyful, outwardly, but inwardly. I wasn't. No, no, because you're doing something.

So this is a distinction that William James, the father of psychology in 1890. He called the me self versus the I self. Human beings are, you know, the homo sapient advantage, neuro cognitively is the existence and size of the prefrontal cortex. That's the bumper of tissue behind your forehead.

That's 30% of your brain by weight. That is the super computer of the ages.

There's, you know, AI is never going to come close to that.

It just isn't. I mean, people who say that it's going to become more human now. The prefrontal cortex does amazing things. Among other things, it allows you to be two people and time travel. It's amazing.

So you go, you think about, you know, I did that thing and I feel really regretted it. And what if it had turned out differently, then the present would be different. You're practicing to be better in the future. Yes, by time travel.

“I think I'm going to do this tomorrow, but maybe I'll do this.”

Maybe I'll do this. You know, you and I were talking about all the cool things that are happening in your business. And five different things that could happen in your business. We were time traveling. Five years into Lewis, how does it change the world?

Exactly. And then we come back to the present and say, which one of the paths do we want to take? That's time travel. It's amazing how that works. We also can think about me looking out or me looking in to understand myself.

William James said, the more time you spend in the me self looking in,

The less happy you're going to be.

And the more time that you spend in the myself,

“you need both because you got to know what you're doing in the world.”

What's going on, but you also have to understand your place in the world. Yes. So you need both.

The problem is that Mother Nature wants you to think me, me, me, me, me.

Happiness comes by looking out at the world. It's really interesting experience with this guy who did physical therapy for me, because my back hurts a lot, right? That's where and tear man. That's like kids when you're 61, you'll understand.

And but he's the a beautiful person and and he's a loving person. Physical therapists are funny because even notice that the best ones, they're full of love. Sure. And that's their action plan.

Yeah, listen to you and okay. They want to know you. Yes. It's what it comes down to. And this guy was a classic, he did acupuncture physical therapy.

And he was really helping me with my back a lot. I said, you know, you have, you have crazy gifts. And you know, how did you get here? He's a young guy. He's your age.

And he said, oh, it's a long path. I said, tell me more. Because now a behavioral scientist, I want to know. Right. He says, yeah, I used to be a fitness influencer.

Really. He says, yeah. He says, me. I was selling my body. I was selling pictures of myself.

Yeah. Yeah.

“Diet plans exercise routines, et cetera.”

And he said, I realized that was just completely, I was miserable. He said, I hadn't eaten what I wanted to eat for 10 years. Chicken and rice every day. Yeah. Because you got it.

He's trying to stay at sub 10. Yeah. Body fat. So hard. Under.

Yeah, 10% body fat. Either you got weird genetics, or you're happy. Yeah. I got weird genetics. Yeah.

I can stay at seven, but that's because of my genetics, not because I'm making myself miserable. Because nobody wants me to take my shirt off on the internet. So he should. I want to go viral. Put it on.

Anyway, so. Human did it. It exploded the internet. I know. I know he broke the internet.

I know. But somebody took a picture of him and he allowed it and he posted. Probably. I don't know. But you know, he said that he realized that he was thinking about himself too much.

He needed to fix it. So he's a smart guy.

So the first thing he did is he's got rid of his social media accounts.

Wow. Step two is he enrolled in physical therapy school. So he could serve others. He got to serve the new. Yeah.

The third thing he did was he's going to believe in it. He took every mirror out of his house. I love that. Every mirror gone. I was just thinking.

Not a single day about how mirrors. That invention of mirror has probably ruined awful. Human psychology. I know. Because it basically it torqued myself.

Yes. And then. And then. And then he showered in the dark for a year. So he couldn't see his abs.

He didn't see the water rushing down. It's like. Look at my abs. Yeah. But he can't see it because he was so attuned to criticizing himself and belittling himself.

Shaming himself. Yeah. That's what it's this little fact. I got to eat the more. I got to do whatever.

The meat self does this to you. It makes you crazy. It makes you completely nuts.

“So the whole point is that you need to look out more.”

That's self transcendence standing in awe serving others puts you into the I self and you find the meaning of your life because your brain works right. So this comes from the philosophy, the theology, the neuroscience. It all works together. Yes.

You want to find the meaning of life? Stop looking at yourself. So true, man. Around 29, when I was 29, 13 years ago, I guess. Almost 14 years ago.

I've gotten off my sister's couch where I was like suffering and broke and had no purpose. I started building a business. I started pursuing these things in five, six years later. I'm 28, 29, 30.

And I make my first million dollars and I'm building a little personal

mind that I have some influence. And I'm like, making a name for myself in this online marketing world. And I feel like I'm the most miserable. I am after about five, six years of this because I was like, so focused on me and more.

And well, you was also another error of the people make that really hurts their search for meaning. And it's very common. It's not, it's not. You've never cast this person's for people making this error.

This is what I say on my first day of class. I teach MBA students at the Harvard Business School. They want to be unbelievably successful. And they're going to be. They want to make millions of dollars.

They want to raise a bunch of money. They want to sell companies. They want to be masters in the universe. They want to be rich. They want to be rich.

And they think, if I get the money, if I get the power, if I get the fame, then I'll be happy. Right? And I say this on the first day of class. And it makes some panic.

And you're going to see why? Because you're a striver. Par excellence. I say, go for the happiness. And I'm going to teach you how.

And then you'll be successful enough. And the rest doesn't matter. But you know what makes some panic? What? Enough.

Yeah. Because the Harvard Business School, there's no such thing as enough. And for all the strivers who look, why do you watch the school of greatness?

You want more.

Because there's not enough. And I admire strivers. I admire strivers.

But this is the key thing.

And this is what you're experiencing. If you think that the money in the power and the honor. But mostly the money for what you're doing with direct marketing. Right? And all the stuff that you were doing.

You thought that that would bring you that you would arrive at some level. That first million dollars would help you arrive at some level of happiness. But now look at your life. Your life is full of love. You have a friendship with God.

You have a, you're living with, you're living with your guru. Yeah. You got your babies. It's crazy, right? For the future you.

That's, that's really the, the source of happiness. And makes you successful enough. Yeah. That's the beautiful thing.

“That's what people need to actually focus on.”

And that's what will happen when you take the mirrors out of your life. Yeah. Yeah. There's like notifications on you. Because, you know, your view counts or whatever my be because I remember reflecting at this time.

I had to kind of a big breakthrough.

And I'm like maybe over a three to six months window of the, my life during that time where I, I had it all, but all my relationships for falling apart business relationships. Those were the girlfriend that was falling apart. Friendships like things were falling apart. And I was at the center of all those.

So in the beginning, I'm like, this person's doing this. And she did it. She did it. And they don't. And then I go, oh, but it's all happening.

I'm at the center. Right. I'm the common denominator of the same thing. The me self was saying something is happening. So that I'm not being loved enough.

The I self says I need to go love more. And that's what I started doing. I said, I went through my own healing journey around that time. I started opening up about the different things that I was going through from childhood, sexual abuse and other things that I've talked about. You've been talking about that.

And I realized I need to serve more. I was like, I felt my first big calling was like, you got to serve those that can't serve themselves. And I thought about what is something that's meaningful for me. I struggled in school, my entire life. I struggled at learning, sitting in a classroom reading textbooks.

It didn't work well for how long are you? Are you dyslexic? Yeah, yeah.

And I was always in the bottom of my class.

I was always like, and they used to rank us on our grade cards back in the day. I don't know if they still do it. So I was always in the bottom four from middle school through high school. And I just struggled. And I just felt like, man, I'm never going to be smart enough.

Do you feel stupid, right? Very stupid. Every day, not enough, stupid. The way I learned was through sports, through mentors, through coaches. And because you're super athletic.

Yeah. So I professionally, I leaned into that. And I was like, okay, I can find value here. But I, I was like, I need to start serving.

“What is the thing that I care about? I care about education?”

And I care about kids. Yeah. Because I struggled as a kid. Great. So I said, I need to find ways to serve children to have education.

And that's something I did. I launched my first school with an organization called Pence of the Promise. It was 14 years ago. And I don't know how many schools I've built for the last 14 years. And brought others to serve and travel the world in these communities.

Yeah. Seeing the joy. Yeah. These children having a place to go and learn. At least I had a school.

You know, even though I didn't feel like it worked well for me. I had somewhere to go. Yeah. Somebody kids that don't have that. And I'm, it's something I'm doing through this mission now.

Instead of just selling something to make money. I was like, how can I build something that serves? How can I do both hand? Yeah. And it was, is intensely satisfying.

Intense because it did. It just jams you into the I self. Yes. You're loving outwardly, constantly. Notwithstanding anything that comes back.

Exactly. But expectation of return. Yeah. That's what we're built to do. Serving.

“The more I think about that, how can I continue to serve at the highest level?”

Use my gifts and talents. And serve people at the highest level. It's the most rewarding feeling. I know. It's the most rewarding feeling.

That's that's transcendent. It is. That's what people want. That's what they, that's what they need. But, but, but, but mother nature.

And the current environment and the culture and the technology. We'll force you away from that. And, and that's why we need to live in a very propulsive way. We need to live in an entrepreneurial way where we're living the start-up of our own lives. Doing something that, you know, people, people are very, very, very, very positively interested in a lot of content on the internet that, that, that, that, that,

that encourages them to do uncomfortable hard things. Right. I mean, all the bro pod casts are out there like. Grind it out harder. Yeah.

Work harder. And tons of dudes are like, yeah, give that to me. It's interesting because Jordan Peterson, my friend Jordan Peterson. I mean, he's very, very, very successful giving hard advice. Yes.

Giving really hard advice. And I understand why because people have this, the sense that there's something bigger. There's something better. They're looking for meaning. And, and so they're, they're, they're willing to walk towards something.

It's incredibly uncomfortable. By the way, this is a second avenue toward meaning is understanding suffering.

Do you hear things?

Is doing hard things, but understanding suffering.

Because when you understand the way that suffering actually works and you're no longer resisting it, you will find meaning. You're brain will work right. The bottom line. Yes.

“And that's what a lot of people are grasping toward.”

A lot of young people in the internet are grasping at this, this kind of thing. And that's the kind of thing that we're talking about here. That, that when you're doing something, that's an uncomfortable thing. It's a morally uncomfortable thing. It's an emotionally uncomfortable thing.

It's a spiritual and comfortable thing. Or, yeah, it's a cold plunge or whatever. You're doing this thing, so you're exploring the space. You're transcending yourself. You're exploring the space of actually non-resistance towards suffering.

Yes. And, and you're saying, I don't know why I feel better. Because the right hemisphere of your brain is illuminated. And you're, and you have an understanding and then coate. Understanding a wordless, ineffable understanding of the meaning of your life.

I mean, you work with a lot of high achievers. I feel like a lot of people that watch and listen to this show. They're cautiously trying to achieve something greater in their life. That's whether here. And I love this kind of like speech that I heard Jim Carrey give.

I think it was at the Golden Globes one year where he said, you know, I'm two time Golden Globe winner Jim Carrey. And if I can become three time Golden Globe winner Jim Carrey, then I'll be enough. It's like this kind of anecdote of like, and how many of you are making a joke? And people laughed.

And people laughed. They laughed. Yeah.

“But it's like how, you know what I'm talking about dude?”

I do. I do. I know that's very, he's a very profound guy. I kind of want to interview him. He's a very good guy.

I'm not sure. I know. I want to interview him. I think it'd be fascinating. But I love his thought process around that.

And I'm sure he struggled many years because he never maybe didn't feel enough

for a long time. But I think he's, I think he's talked openly about his struggles, actually. Yeah. And there was another interview he did where he said he was going to retire a few years ago.

And someone said, no, you can't retire. Like, you're too talented. The journalist was saying, like, please don't retire. And he goes, I'm going to say something that most celebrities will never admit to. And he said, I've done enough.

I have enough. I am enough. Mm-hmm. And most celebrities will want to admit to that. But now, easier for him to say at his age and his career and his status.

But it's not. You know, it just gets harder and harder. It just gets harder and harder. Like the need for validation. I need for being in the game being talked about.

“The more famous you are, the more famous you need to be.”

Gosh. The richer you are, the richer you need to be. That's just, and the reason is because you're on the hedonic treadmill. There isn't enough. There isn't enough in the world.

It's that these rewards, these worldly rewards. This is what Saint Thomas Aquinas, he called the world's idols. And the world's idols are the things that begile you. And they have a kind of a divine feel to them. But they lead you away from what you truly want, which is the mission and meaning of your life.

They lead you away from it. Because they look like they're going to bring you to it. But they actually don't, so they're like drinking salt water. The more that you drink the thirstier you get. And actually every single one of the, all the strivers watching us right now.

And you and me, there's one, the begiles that's more than the others. And if you have information, if you have knowledge about which is your idol, you got power. You want to play what's my idol? What's your idol? Yeah.

I'll play with you. What's your idol? So let's find out. Let's find out. Kids, you can play a long and home.

I play this game with my students.

Because if they know their idol, their power, your idol is what will always lead you astray.

And when you look back to the times of your life where you suffered the most, it's because you were begiled by that idol the most. And it's always one of four things. Good. Yeah.

Money, power, pleasure, or honor. And honor means, like internet famous maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Prestige.

Admiration of the right people or admiration of lots of people. Success-addicted people who get famous when they're young. They seek the admiration of strangers. That's the honor idol. And we can talk about that one because that was super dangerous.

What was that one? Pleasure. Pleasure, money, pleasure. Money, power, pleasure, honor. Those are the four.

Now, this comes from Aristotle via Thomas Aquinas in 1265. And as Sumifiologia, he was an unbelievably adroit behavioral scientist way before his time. And all this stuff that I'm talking about here has been completely validated by modern neuroscience and behavioral science. Perfect. But it was the 13th century.

It's unbelievable. Okay. So here's how it works. Here's how it works. What's my idol?

So what I'm going to do is I'm not going to ask you what it is. I'm going to ask you what is not. Okay. Before we further do that, what is the idol of most Harvard Business School students coming in? What is most of their lives?

They think it's money and it isn't. What is it? Well, see. Okay. Okay.

Gosh. So we're going to take the idols away. And one of the reasons is because this is an elimination technique that's the most accurate way for you to figure out all kinds of things in life.

This is cognitively a very powerful technique for finding something.

So I'm going to look at these things and I want you to get rid of one you care about the least, which doesn't mean you don't have it.

“Because what it changes is what it means is you have the population average.”

Which, you know, you take away money, for example. You're the population average in the United States. That's pretty darn good. But the problem is this. You're not extraordinary in it.

Which means it sucks if it's your idol. Gosh. Okay. So money power pleasure fame.

Which one do you got good rid of first?

Which one do you care about the least? What if you feel like you have all four? Because you do have all four. Because you're Mr. Big and of course you care about all four of them. But which one would you could you take away?

Most easily. I can make a prediction for you already. Which not your idol. Power means it's power. I guess power is going to be the one.

Because I'd rather have honor than that. I don't want to look with your honor is kind of power. No, no, no, no. It's so respect is like, oh, power is influence over the people. So they do what you want.

I mean, no, how do I know that about you? Because you're a highly intelligent. Yeah. You'd be a CEO of a big company right now. And you're not.

You're running an enterprise. That's an idea enterprise. It's not an a skeleton crew. I mean, there's a bunch of people around us right now that are doing good work. But the whole point is you'd have a big company.

You'd be running a big public company.

And you'd be the chairman of CEO. And Lewis House could absolutely have that gig. Yeah. If power were the thing, okay, good. So you got three laughs.

So money pleasure. I already know what I already know of my. What's that. Well, let's let's eliminate a little bit more. Okay.

Which one do you get river next? It gets river. I feel like. Gosh, it's interesting. Because I was just talking Martha last night.

I go, you know, I could live in a two-bedroom apartment to be fine. Yeah. You know, it's actually not money. Yeah. I was doing that.

I mean, money's great. I like having it. I think it's a security, I guess. But I don't think it's a security. I don't buy stuff.

Security isn't security isn't a money.

Yeah. Security is a pleasure. Yeah. This is if you and one of the things in people language, they'll say, well, I can't. I'm not going to do that.

“How often do you check your stock portfolio every day?”

Right. Yeah. So I don't. Yeah. And so comfort, security, and feeling good are all the same.

I don't. That's actually because money, I know it's not. I mean, listen, I'm a driven business entrepreneur that needs to make money to pay for people's lives and my livelihood. But I just listen.

I turn it down money all the time. Yeah. Like the reason I know it's not my own. Because I get sponsorship and deal offers all the time to pay me. And I'm like, no, I don't want to make money to do that.

I get it. And so for me, it doesn't mean I don't want lots of it. Mm-hmm. But I want to deal with the right way. I get it.

And it's nice. It's nice. It's nice. For the two-bedroom apartment wasn't. I was living the dream in it too better.

It wasn't a lot worse than a huge house. I was living the dream and I had less things to manage. Yeah. I'm grateful for my home. Right.

But I was still living the dream. Okay. We've got number two's gone. Now it gets real hard. Because there's no less.

So what does pleasure mean versus on pleasure means there's three things that pleasure could be. Number one is feeling good, feeling good. Number two is comfort. Number three is security.

That's the pleasure idol. And then fame is there very many different kinds of fame. One is internet famous, which by the way you are. There is prestige in the eyes of the right people. And there's the admiration of people.

Those are different kinds of fame. But they're all the same model.

“And so what's the difference between pleasure and honor?”

Pleasure and honor is honor is the reflection of other people's feelings toward you. Pleasure is how you feel. Man. So you got to get rid of it. That doesn't mean I know you want both.

But I want to feel good. And I want. I want other people to. You want other people's feelings about you. You care about it.

Good luck. Yeah. You got to get rid of one of what do I really is motivating you more. And again, this is not that this is not to live a life of advice. Yeah.

No. This just means you're trying to find what actually would lead you straight. The one that I care about the most. No, not the one that actually kind of. One that drives you a little bit more.

The one that I want more. Yeah. But the one that's less. Hold on me on. I feel like it takes work.

Oh, yeah. I mean, I might need to dive deeper on this because there. In some ways, I'm working more and more to care less what people think about me. That's why I'm telling you. I'm going to do the reason, right?

Tell me. It's because it's your idol. Maybe. That's probably it. And the last four years, I have done so much work.

Maybe I talked about this with you when we're at the mastermind. Where I've had to create so many boundaries with. Influential people, billionaires, celebrities or just everyday people that want things or that.

Expect something from me.

Right.

“Expecting to be the good guy that always delivers that's like willing to do whatever it takes to help them.”

Yeah. The fact that you're concerned. Yeah. Indicates that you're self aware. But that is the tendency.

Yes. Here's the deal. Even you were kid. When you were kid. You learn something about yourself.

Which is that you got attention and affection when you did stuff. Yes. Right. And you felt crummy about yourself when you didn't when you weren't able to do this. Why?

Because you were you had a learning disability. Which made it hard for you to do things made you feel crummy about yourself. Yes. But then when you achieve, especially, is an athlete that adults give you attention and affection. And what you learned from that is that love is earned.

You learned that love is earned. That's actually wrong, by the way. Martha doesn't love you because of what you give her. She loves you as a grace. Love is a free gift, freely given.

It is.

The problem is that when you wire that in when you have the programming as a child that

love is earned, you will become a success machine. Yes. And the success machine has to understand whether or not it's functioning. And how do you know it's functioning because of points on the board. And the points on the board comes to the affection of strangers and the admiration of other people.

And the viewer numbers and the bank account. That's an honor idle. Yeah. So in the last few years, I've really worked to knock that down. Yeah.

For sure. And you're working on it. It's going to be a lifelong journey. I'm sure. But it was scary the moment I started to say, I need to create boundaries with all these people.

Right. And get on the phone and say, you're not a good friend. And no, I'm not going to do this for you. And take the reactions and know that they might talk bad about me. And know that they may have a different viewpoint of me.

And like the grieving the loss of that like clinging onto that idle was scary. Yeah. For the last for two, three years ago. Yeah. And so I don't feel it as much.

Like sure. I want to like look good in the eyes of other people. Right. But not with the detriment of my own happiness. Right.

And here's the point. That's great. Yeah. The point is in your weak moments. You'll snap back into the honor idle.

Hopefully not. Well, I mean, there's, we're all weak. Yeah, of course. You know, it's not like you're going to go on a bend. Yeah.

You know, of that. You're not going to become a monster because you're not a monster. But the whole point is that self-knowledge is critically important. Here's mine. Yes.

I would get rid of power. I was a CEO. The thing I hated most about being a CEO is having power over the people. Okay. Well, people call me boss.

It bummed me out. And the reason is because I hate people having power over me.

You always admire the people who have your idle.

And so if you look at a politician who kind of admires demagogic,

“tyrannical despots in other countries, it's because that's what he wants.”

Right? You always admit, you know, somebody who admires billionaires wants to be a billionaire. Yes. That's what I mean. Admires, the richness and the lives.

Okay. Power. I don't even like it. Let alone have it as an idle. Okay.

Number two is money. So we have the same. I've had it. I haven't had it. Number three.

I would get rid of, I would get rid of pleasure. Because actually, I'm a pretty austere guy comfort is not important to me. I get up before dawn every single day, including Sundays. I work out every day. I let bring pain.

Yeah. I'm in that place, too. My problem is the same as yours, man. I mean, I want the admiration of strangers. Love is earned.

I got the attention of adults when I played the French horn as a little kid. That was when I felt special. That's when I felt like you were singing about. Yeah. And then teacher.

This is the result is that I'm a success addict. And I'm a self-objectifying success addict. And the result is that my worst moments, Louis, or when I spent the 14th hour of the office,

looking for the admiration of strangers, as opposed to the first hour of my kids.

When they were little and they grew up, I wanted to be special more than I wanted to be happy. Wow. And that's my weakness. And consciousness of this is allowed me to take my life back. And when I take my life back, I understand what the real meaning of my life actually is.

“That's why everybody needs to play this game.”

What is the real meaning of your life? The real meaning of my life is to love and be loved. The meaning of my life is to lift people up and bring them together in bonds of happiness and love, using the gifts that I've been given. Which is science and ideas.

That's what it is. But I can't do that when I'm just trying to get a pause. It's like, why do so many smart intelligent people sabotage their own happiness? Because they're in, well, there's a couple of different things going on. Because you're straightforward.

They'll leave this. So they'll leave their happiness on the table. And then there's some that will actually sabotage their own happiness. And there's a two different problems. Number one, many strivers will will forego happiness.

Because they actually know what they need. I was interviewing this woman in my research. Because of billionaire. I mean, in finance, iconic in the industry. My age at the time was my 50's at the time.

She was confessing to me that she was horribly unhappy.

She said, I got everything I wanted. I'm not happy. I said, well, talk to me, sister. Yeah. And she says, well, my husband and I were like roommates.

I'm cordial with my adult kids.

“You know, I think my employees are afraid of me.”

You know, I'm not taking care of myself the way I should. I drink too much. I was going to the gym. I used to be religious when I was a child that gave me so much joy.

But I never even practiced my faith.

What should I do professor? And I'm like, you know, you need a Harvard professor to tell you. You just gave yourself your own prescription. You mean, go away with your husband. Get to know your kid.

Step back from your firm. Go to AA. Go back to church. Do your thing. And she said, I know.

I know. I said, so why not? And she thought about it. And she said. Because I've always chosen to be special rather than happy.

See, here's the kid is the calculus. Any loser can have love relationships, but not everybody can build a company. People will, almost apiens. We're weird, dude. We will.

You will choose specialists over happiness all day long. Can you be special and happy? Of course. Of course.

“Except there are sacrifices in your specialness that you need to do what every other person can do”

because we are built to love each other.

We are built to love our kids. We are built to serve our marriages. We are built to do that. And that's. It's not special because everybody can do it.

And here's the thing. Most people would look at you and say, "Man, if I had to do it, it houses money and prestige." Then I would actually be happy. But I can't get it. So I guess I'll do this dumb thing.

It was to take my kid to the park and play ball. That's the secret. And because they feel like they can't be special. Then they choose the happiness and they have a good life. But people.

But here's the thing. Probably eight and nine percent of the world has the ability to be happy because they're not special. And yet they're still not choosing how to be happy. Yeah. They're still not leaning into the life that I have in a good life.

But I'm still not happy. I know. Because I'm missing the special. I know. So they have it.

And they still diminish it because they don't have it. Well, they're unsatisfied with what they actually have. And so they want that thing. And they don't get that thing. They're frustrated about that thing.

And they're also missing the opportunity to do the things they do. And that's so there's a lot of desperation that goes into that. I wind up talking about that novel. And just my general work on the science of happiness. Yes.

But when it comes to the struggle of striving and this paradox of striving. This is your whole audience. Why? Because your show is not called the school of good enough. No.

It's not the school of average. It's not the school of okay. School of awesome kind of. You know, it's the school of greatness. And I really admire that.

But you can't sacrifice the love in your life on the altar of what you're trying to do in the world's eyes. Yes. That's not greatness. That's not greatness. If you're if you're special.

Yeah. But you have no great relationships. I don't think that's greatness. Yeah. If you're pursuing money, power, pleasure, and fame, there's a problem per se.

I mean, there's nothing wrong with those things.

“But they should lead you to what you should truly want.”

Which is your faith, your family, your friends and work deserves. Faith, family, friends and work deserves. Those will bring authentic happiness. Yeah. And if you've it sounds like what I'm here to say.

If you focus on your faith, your family. Your friends and work that serves. It may lead you to more money, more power, more. I got the data. It will actually more, you know, you'll be successful.

It'll be a byproduct of you doing that. And then there'll be your responsibility to not give too much emphasis on that. It'll be the, you know, Ryan Holiday, Marcus Aurelius. You're needing someone to say you're just a man. Right.

Like remind you you're just a man. That's what you get married. You're just a man, right? We even when you're this god or in your own world or something. It's like, you need to remind your daily that you're just a man.

Yeah, for sure. And it's going to be taken. It's going to be taken away. All that your life will be taken away one day. Right.

And I were talking about this earlier that, that, you know, a great CEO one time told me who had managed. He was a private equity manager, meaning he bought his old companies. And he had seen the careers of thousands of CEOs. And I asked him because I was a CEO at the time, close friend. How do I understand the end of my career as a CEO?

And he said, there's two ways. You can quit before you're ready or you can quit under somebody else's terms. Those are the only two doors. So he is recommendation was quit before you're ready. But the whole point is things end.

Here's what doesn't end. Love. Love doesn't end. You know, what do you want to be doing under your last day? What do you want people to say at your funeral?

Loose house had five million miles on Delta Airlines.

I mean, that he couldn't use chairs.

Who cares?

And we all kind of know that. It was funny because, you know, that was the premise of a great George Clooney movie. Up in the air. Was he was looking for meaning and counting it in airline miles. Crazy.

And then he finally got that he arrived.

Yeah, he arrived. In the middle of a flight, right? Yeah.

“Like he, the captain came down and said, what was it?”

Like something. I know. Like he got the most points. He got the capital. And the captain sat next to him and he's like, and then it's just.

What do you want to look at him? He realized how empty it was. His gift. He's got that church clue. Put a great actor.

He's got that new movie on that. J. Kelly. If you've seen it, it's called J. Kelly. Oh, and all watch. It's the same movie as up in the air.

He's a movie star playing an aging movie star. He was looking for the ultimate role because then he'll he will live arrived. He'll be enough. And he sacrificed all of his, his happiness and his love relationships to be special. He's, he chose specialness over happiness.

That's, that's the premise of the movie.

It's a very, very beautiful movie, actually. Why is this drug or idyllos specialness over happiness seem to captivate most of the world? Yeah. So, and that's evolution. And there's an actual, we have an evolutionary biological explanation for this.

We're born homosapiens are not, are not made to be happy. We're, we're made to be special. We're homosapiens. The brain of homosapiens is the same as it was the beginning of the place to scene era 250,000 years ago.

But all of humanity lived in bands of 30 to 50 kin based individuals. Higher, hierarchical kin based groups of 30 to 50. And what do you want? You want to maintain and rise in that particular hierarchy. And the way that you do that is with more hunting skills, et cetera.

Why? Because you get more food and you get more mates. We're that simple in its way. And that is metastasized in modern society in wanting more internet followers, more Instagram followers, having a lot of likes.

“That's how we're actually being rewarded for dragging in a slightly bigger gazelle.”

And to the cave. But that explains that, and you explain so much of our relationships. For example, one of the things that we find in relationships between husbands and wives.

The reason that marriage is fail is because women are not adored by their husbands.

And/or husbands are not admired by their wives. This is the fuel of happiness in these traditional relationships. And so what she needs to hear because of the evolutionary biology. Like she is a huge commitment and investment in raising kids. Carries them.

When your wife just carried your babies for months. And she's taking care of them. They die without her. And so the result of it is that she needs the protector who has a complete commitment to her. And how does she know the commitment through the adoration?

And so she wants to hear honey. I would fight a tiger for you with my hands and only you. And what do you need to hear? That is the biggest gazelle anybody has ever dragged into this cave. Yeah.

You're so big and strong. You're going to feed our family for two weeks. And that motivates all of this behavior. And we go on risk our lives again. Again and again and again and again.

I mean, I do 150 talks a year, public talks a year. And the two weeks ago I was in Columbus, Ohio and I was from. It's great. People awesome. Cold right now though.

It's good. Cold.

“17,000 Catholic missionaries in the audience.”

17,000 right. And I was super nervous. You want to why? Because Esther was in front row. My wife.

Because she was in the front row. That was why I was nervous. Because I want her to admire me. All I want is my wife said. And I want her to admire me.