The Hidden Cost of Success Nobody Talks About | Rainn Wilson

diving into personal authenticity, really, diving into more personal matters. I'm curious, when was the most pain that you faced emotionally and internally in the last decade? Was it during the pandemic? Was it when you were on, you know, the office?

Was it after the office?

“Well, before then, when was the time you felt like maybe I should be really happy?”

But actually, I'm going through some challenge, suffering some identity crisis, I love that question. I love that question. I really, really love that question. Let's go.

Let's go. Let's go. I will say that so many lights went off in my brain when you asked me that, because I think it's really important, you know, if you're seeking greatness, it's super important. It's important to say, like you said, to try and be authentic.

I'm not always authentic.

I was a Buddhist artist, really, for most of my life. I was an addict, I was a people pleaser, I just wanted to entertain, I was like the class clown, I just wanted people to like me. I was in constant comparison with other people, so that's something that I've struggled with.

Really. Really is trying to bring as much authenticity and integrity to my interactions as possible and to be vulnerable, because if you want greatness, and I've just been reading and listening to your book and really enjoying it, and I'm going to switch the complimentary tables on you and just say what I love about your book is there's no book and here are like takeaways,

like you want to do this, here's what to do, nothing big in the book at all, like here's hooks, you can hang your hat on, and I just picture like some young dude trying to make a difference and your book is like a Bible, you know, and I really mean that, I read a lot of books that are, I won't say, it's not self-help, but motivational, motivational, kind of leadership, entrepreneurship, whatever, yours is bigger than that, and I really appreciate

that. But I do think that when we talked right before the interview, I was saying, like, sometimes messages don't get through unless you're really vulnerable, and unless you're just as real as possible, because there's a lot of those books out there, aspiring to some kind of greatness and some kind of motivation and leadership that are struggling, and they have

character defects. One, they get sad some days, and some days they wake up, and they don't want to do a cold plunge at six a.m. don't want to do a Tony Robbins three hour workout and a, you know,

“like a Mark Wahlberg for AM, like, protein all day, like, it's hard, you know, so I think”

it's important to talk about like the struggle. So you're leading off with the struggle. So when was the time that was the hardest for you? Well, I last decked it, but I'm going to, I'm getting there, I'm getting there. Let me, I'm going to get there on it.

I got you. No, I'm, I'm there. But I will say that two things before the last decade. So my wife and I haven't had a lot of struggles and a lot of up and down ups and downs over the years.

That was some hard stuff, but that was thankfully a while back, but also like, and I've

been thinking about this too, like, when I was on the office, and I had the first, I had

been acting for 15 years professionally, and then all of a sudden I was on the office. We almost got canceled, like, a dozen different times, and then all of a sudden we take off, we win the Emmy, where it's top 10 show, it becomes, you know, everyone is getting

“movie deals out of it, and, and I remember back to that time and how kind of sick I was”

that I didn't have the spiritual tools that I needed in the psychological tools and resilience that I needed to go through that. Famous is a very weird thing, that you have number one. Number two, I wasn't happy with what I had. I mean, like, to go from total obscurity to be kind of a weird looking, goofy character actor,

and all of a sudden get the role of a lifetime and be lauded and loved and winning awards and whatnot. Like, that's enough, rain. If I could go back in time to those early years of the office, you know, in 2006, '70.

And I was always, and I was like, but I want more, I want to, I want to movie career,

like Jack Black has or Will Ferrell, I want, you know, this, I want my own media company, I want my own success here, all my own development deal here. I want to be the spokesperson for this, like, I want more money here, like, like, what when is it enough?

And I wish I could have just taken a deep breath and be like, "This is enough. This is great. I wanted to do 22 episodes a year. This amazing character. I'm making a really nice living."

I won't say, like, I've made it. I want to do more creatively from a business standpoint.

“But I wish, so when you, when you asked me that, I think about those really troubled times”

that I should have been enjoying, and I wasn't able to go through that. Yeah, I mean, I enjoyed my time on the set and with the cast, they were amazing and we all got along great and I love each and every one of them. We were like this wonderful family. We weren't even a dysfunctional family.

We were a pretty functional family. Right, right. I would come in every day and we would make comedy and get along and high five each other and eat too much from craft services. But yeah, so I was thinking about that, but then I'm going to go there.

There's a chapter in the book and it's called "Death and How to Live It." And my dad dying two and a half years ago, right after COVID started, was really devastating for me.

“My mom left me in my dad when I was about a year and a half.”

So I stayed with him my whole life. So my primary bond, I didn't get to know my mom thought I was like 15. So my primary bond was with my dad. Right.

It's always there for me.

We had our ups and downs. Our struggles and we bumped heads a lot and we didn't see eye to eye a lot, but it was really devastating at a core level to lose him and it kind of shifted a lot of things about my perspective about life. What was the biggest lesson he taught you while he was here and the biggest lesson he's taught

you since transitioning into a different way. You're going to make me cry, Lewis. I will say that. Two lessons.

“One is my dad when he came into a room always made it a better place.”

You would always have a positive thing to say.

He would always uplift someone. He would tell a joke. He would inspire. He would compliment. Like that's a great jacket and I love your office and all the light bulbs are great and

it's so nice to meet you guys behind the camera where are you from, he always had some way to uplift every room he came in and you know what and again I didn't really appreciate that until he was gone. And when I was thinking I used to energizing him, I was like what is the single thing that if I could point to one thing that my dad did consistently the made the world a better place.

It was he uplifted every room he went into and that was that was really special. Sometimes I'm able to do that but sometimes I'm and the other thing and I put the inscription of my book and I said dedicated to my father and I said thanks for teaching me about the soul and I feel like my dad had a deep understanding from his faith that we are spiritual beings having a human experience that our reality is spiritual we are heart-based

beings and we are in this physical world we get 80 or 90 years he got 79 years to go around the sun and to do the best with what we got and they'll try and leave the world a little bit better than when we came into it and that perspective has stayed with me my whole life and I went through a time when I was an atheist and I had rejected faith and all of that nonsense and you know religious BS and what not I didn't want anything to

do with that for good decade and a half but I did always kind of keep with me that that

idea that we are essentially our spiritual beings that's beautiful we'll just say that's the biggest lesson he's taught you since transitioning well that lesson was driven home when I saw him on the table of the hospital bed and he was just like one of those medical shows where they were doing open heart surgery around he had had to do quadruple bypass and they have to take a vein to put it in and they couldn't find a vein that wasn't affected

by his arterial sclerosis so he was 12 hours and they couldn't save him oh man and you were there for it yeah like parts of it or a couple of other areas the weirdest thing because

the surgery and we hung out for like an hour I was sure he was going to hit this this operation

“has a 90 percent 95 percent success rate so you're like he's all seems to see soon and I literally”

was like I literally hugged him we were visiting it was like you're going to be great dad love you I went and played pickleball while I went to hobby lobby and try and surprise and like and then all of a sudden we're like wonder how that's going and then we got a very concerned call it like 12 or one o'clock and and we're like oh and then we had to wait another six hours before we kind of found out the situation and but he was still barely alive but losing his blood

pressure and he had some kind of blood sepsis and and it was a kind of thing of like deciding to

somehow unplug him but the doctor was like listen he's gonna be dead within the hour and it was like one of those hospital shows where it's like squeaky doctor shoes on the linoleum floor white coats like gloves the machines and beep beep and that ventilator is going no way and it was incredibly sad it was weeping and but what is the what is the kind of bounty that comes out of it what's the takeaway um his body is lying there on the table and I see little

things about him the way his hair sticks up here and there and the way his ears are and his kind of ruddy cheeks and this kind of old man hands and and and it hit me like oh that's not my father that's not my father that is the vessel that carried my father for 79 years I'm looking at this vessel once the heart had stopped and but that's not the reality of who he is

“and that goes hand in hand with that lesson so that's what he's kind of taught me upon his”

passing uh again just really solidify that the light that we all have the the emotion the the love that we bring the you know that the spirit that we bring to interacting with one another that's our reality you know this body houses us and we should take care of it and maximize it and and love it and it's part of who we are but it's not all of who we are well yeah it's interesting I lost my dad last year and it was it's been an interesting year of knowing that he's no longer

physically in this world I don't know if that's something that you've been experiencing it's like okay do you get a thing sometimes you're like I'm going to text my dad or I got to call him and you you think about it and then you're like I want to well here's a thing I had a you know it's kind

“of a tragic experience because he had a a car accident I guess 18 years ago now that he had”

an extra of your brain trauma so he was in a color for a few months after that he eventually woke up he shouldn't have made it but he survived and he kind of lived 17 years you know in his home watching TV and that was it because he didn't have the ability to work anymore he lost his memory

he wasn't he could walk and talk some but it wasn't wasn't the same yeah so it was like he always

had to ask me what didn't you go didn't you play football even though he was at every football game you know he'd forgive me my name sometimes and he just kind of had to like remind him every time you saw him that's probably the same story where he'd be like oh yeah okay that's right he just didn't have the spirit that he once had and so it was it was kind of 17 years of a loss he was physically here but but emotionally not here and then when he passed it was almost like I

finally could breathe for the first time because I wasn't able to really grieve him not being around but physically being here because I didn't have those conversations with him so that was that was challenging I almost have more peace now that he has passed but it's I still look back at my 21 year old self in sadness for him that he didn't get to have really the father and that was there and how much did that motivate you that he was in this kind of half life in a way it

when it happened I was I was I had just gotten through an injury playing called football the night he got in the accident the next day out of football game and we didn't know if he was a live or dead and so my siblings were like I was like what do I what do we do he was in New Zealand I was in Ohio he was on vacation and I was like do I play do I not play like what would he

ribs actually in that game and I thought okay my seasons over I don't know if my dad's a live

“still or if he's dead what do I do now when he came back I got very clear that life is finite like”

it could happen in the moment like this like I got injured my career could be over in a moment

he got injured his life could be over in a moment so I made it decision that day that I'm always

at a go after my dreams no matter what and I'm going to do the best to have joy in my life and fun in my life and play so I went after everything and even though I was afraid I didn't let the fear hold me back because I was like my dad was large in the life and if this could happen to him in a moment then if my life is over tomorrow at least I want to enjoy this day in this moment and so it gave me a lot of permission to go after what I wanted now for a couple years after

football was done I was living on my sister's couch for a year and a half and I had no way to make money I was struggling in 2008 I was broke I hadn't graduated college yet you should have called me

“man right on the office there we go wish out of that yeah and I remember here's the thing about”

I guess losing my father really on there was no one to rely on there was like I had to step up into becoming a somewhat of a man for myself at that point in terms of like okay I've got to learn how to make money I've got to learn how to do my taxes I've got to learn how to do these things I can't just ask my dad for money as a 22 year old anymore and so in a way it gave me courage and permission to kind of do the thing that I'm doing now I don't think I'd be doing what I'm doing if he didn't

get in that accident then I don't think I would have had the courage so in some ways I think it was meant to happen wow and before he left the day before he left I was sitting with him and there was

something off about him it was really weird I'd never seen this and it was almost like he knew

this was going to happen wow and he told me before he left I'm going to go on a spiritual journey and it was kind of weird because I was like oh okay yeah I have fun dad like you're going to New Zealand you've wanted to do this for wow he's like yeah but I'm going to take my books I'm going to practice and when I go deeper into my books on a spiritual journey Bible in the science and health which will always practice in Christian science at the time I was like I hope you have a great time

and so when I got the call that he got in his accident I was like yeah I think he predicted this and we all needed to go on this kind of spiritual journey in this material world when this happened

but it's been interesting since it's passing because it feels weird not the one to know

that my father is here and it's not like he had a pretty good relationship with your father right for for many years or yeah we did at least you were in conversation and yeah so when you have that and then there's a loss or it's not there anymore yeah how have you been able to spiritually and emotionally cope with that loss physically you know it really has to do with grief and and the grieving process which is not something we talk a lot about in Western culture but

it's just it's I had to learn how to grieve so you know there's good beer and a half after he died

“I would just sometimes burst into tears I'll never forget my assistant just came by my office once”

and I just I had seen some picture of him or something like that I was just sobbing and my assistant walked in and he was like hey do you want to oh and it's like it's like it's okay I'm just crying because my dad died he's like okay I'll come back and like it's all right oh wow but you grieve so that you can go through you know and if you don't grieve and you know learn how to grieve you get stuck and that's a good life lesson put that in your next

right look in smoke exactly but I think that there's a lot of truth to that like we have to in fact I had um I've been playing a lot of tennis and I'm on this like USDA tennis team and we compete and stuff like that and I'm not very good but um getting better but I remember those it's taking lessons with this tennis teacher and in Zach Climan and he's here in LA and we actually interview him and the geography of bliss shouts we don't episode in LA and

and he said like every mistake you make like you you know you've got a clear ball and boom you hit in the net or something like that like grieve it like grieve the loss grieve the loss the mess grieve the mess grieve the mess and he's like feel it and then you're through it and then you're on and then you're like okay what can I improve next time and then you're on of the next thing but if you skip the grieve I you can get you can get stuck you can get blocked in a kind of

okay when did I do oh I took my eye off the ball or oh I didn't go low to high or I

“I got ahead of myself you know just keep breathing okay I got this one and then you're back”

and you're ready to go but his philosophy is interesting to grieve the mistakes do you think you understood how to grieve when you were kind of rising in the fame with the office and kind of those years with those seasons did you understand grieve? I didn't I didn't understand that and how did you process frustration pain anger not very well yeah I didn't process it very well um I had a lot of addiction issues in my 20s and went through drug and alcohol phase

porn phase kind of anything that could kind of help me cope and help kind of medicate

thou discomfort and pain I used for a long period of time until I really have been you know in

“active like therapy and recovery and and all that nonsense for a good while now and you know”

it's so interesting because when you choose to be an actor you're signing up for disappointment so if you're an accountant not much disappointment every every life comes with disappointment but you're going to have your you know 27 clients or your 12 clients or whatever and you can have a successful business for 50 years and just be a good accountant and you won't but actor you're constantly putting yourself out there like hey I'm auditioning for this hey she's very good yeah here's the

script or hey can we get this or and then you do get to make you know a movie or something like that and then it gets canceled or it bombs or and I've been involved in plenty of those so it's been an interesting learning dance and it took me until oh I don't know my mid late 40s to kind of learn while how to live with kind of constant disappointment while and frustration and so this lesson comes back which is grieve the disappointment feel disappointed feel frustrated

be off like you know and then and then and then move on like and then how do we fix it but you

“have to you have to go through that feeling before before you move on I believe what is I mean”

what was it like not being famous and then being famous and were you happier before or happier after that's so interesting it's um for someone who has had you know addiction issues and alcohol issues in and then kind of a messed up family situation and essentially spending most of my adult life feeling unlovable and then you get on a TV show and then the weirdest thing happens Lewis all of a

sudden I'll never forget it like getting famous from the office like people coming up and going

I love you you're like so they're touching you and grabbing like I love you like photos of you oh I love you my daughter loves you my son loves you we love like there's all this but it's not really love they really love getting entertained by the character that I play which is one small cog in this big machine called the office so that is that is a mind trip I would say um if you were unhappy and you are wired for unhappiness and you are making life choices that kind of keep you in an

unhappy mode ungrateful mode uncontent mode a discontent mode it doesn't matter what the circumstances are you're going to be unhappy and discontent and imbalanced even if you're famous and have money and people want opportunities with you and you have more followers on all that stuff we think that that's going to solve our problems and guess what that kind of contentment that kind of like true that solidity of well-being it can't be fixed from anything outside of yourself so I was discontent

and unhappy and a scrappy unemployed broke actor you know and trying to make my next rent in fact I would say about um I don't know nine months before I got cast on the office like we were so broke that I had to pay rent by putting you know on my credit card and was just 2005 so they asked for four that was like late 2003 or early 2004 and um um and so if you're discontent you'll be happy no matter what the circumstances so then I've become

for me all of a sudden for the first time in my life you know heads of movie studios are like we want

to really meet with Rain Wilson we love his stuff and maybe there's a movie you can do like um so those doors start open but if you're in chronic discontent and feeling like I don't have enough I am not enough and I don't have enough it doesn't matter what comes at you you can all of a sudden say someone come up and say by the way you're the king of Scotland uh we just found

“the paperwork here's the key here's your own kingdom and here's a billion dollars good luck like”

you would find a way to be unhappy right so so you more unhappy happier before when you were

I was right on a credit card for happier after I was equally unhappy while I was equally unhappy so

I tell you it was nice to pay off my student loans and it's nice to have a little money and I'm not going to lie that's an important part of the deal is to when you don't have to worry about when and how you're going to pay bills and I know you've been there that's a big girl that's nice that is a big deal um some happiness experts are kind of like oh none of that matters like no and that of course um but yeah I was I would say if you looked at me you know 2001 2003 I was

pretty unhappy and dissatisfied and then I got the office and there was a big rush but if you cut cut into me in 2006-70 right in there nine there's were some pretty unhappy years at the same time yeah so on a scale let's call it the self-love inner peace scale yeah one to ten one being miserable and zero happiness and ten being total peace inside yourself love where were you before and after I would say I was at a three and then maybe two a four or five five once I was well-known

and then and then it's it's been a long struggle and and now I you know I'm doing much better yeah where would you say you are now? I would say it's a daily struggle and I have to do daily work but I'm I'm really at an eight plus maybe nine yeah I'm when do you feel the most loved and the most enough? I think in my contemplation practice my mindfulness practice my meditation practice

“I I view meditation is something like when your computer is acting all funky and you have to”

reboot it and like the apps aren't working right in the pages and and then you reboot it and go long and then all of a sudden like it's moving moving smoothly again like my meditation practice allows me that I also combine that with a prayer practice I do believe in God I believe

that there are and there is an incredible divine force out there for us to tap into and that is

the source of love itself I would equate God much more to just the force of love which is synonymous with the force of gravity than any kind of like guy or dude or deity or some old man with a beard or someone you know like a marvel superhero shooting there sure I know like I'm going to give Lewis this thing and give him this parking spot I'm going to give her cancer and like like so when I'm able to kind of tap into that force of love when I'm able to you know annual mod

great thinker and writer humorist She wrote a book called Help Thanks Wow those are the three

“prayers help thanks and wow I think it's so brilliant I love that book so much so simple but”

when you're connecting with that great spirit like help like hey I could really use help with this I'm struggling with this perfectly okay and thank you thank you for what I have thank you for the gratitude and then just wow like the miracle of being alive the miracle of everything warm what do you wish people knew about money fame and success and also how to create and feel enough and happy with all three of those as well well if I knew the answer to that I would write my own

bestselling book Lewis do you feel like you so that's a constant journey for you to figure out how to manage those things and also find that peace and happiness and self acceptance for your self and also on curious do you feel like there are anyone in Hollywood or any celebrities with you know fame and money and success who have mastered this and also finding like true deep sense of I am enough I need to compare myself to others and yeah one up everyone else in Hollywood or in

yeah some of the most unhappy people I've met have been multi millionaires in Hollywood

and on both sides of the cameras like directors writers actors stop big stars agents friend of mine told me like if you're ever in an airport and you're just looking for the gate of people flying to LA and you didn't look up on the board just look for the gate with the most beautiful people who also look the most miserable there you go it's kind of true wow um

“yeah there's so much to talk about to unpack around that I mean gosh I think that number one”

it's really important to understand for people to understand that there is a lot of struggle going on

and people might really present well on social media and on talk shows and in their books and

whatnot but people are struggling and you know I'm not saying I'm a big star but like big stars that I know that are you know very successful they really have struggles they've struggled to interpersonal relationships and and endowed and self esteem and I feel like the road to self love is just a road through struggles you know this brings me to this Buddhist idea and I talk a lot about this in soul boom I reference Buddhism a lot because I've learned so much from studying it

but the Buddha has as you know the four noble truths which are the kind of the foundation of

“of Buddhist thought and the elimination of suffering so one of the key not the only thing the”

Buddha came for but the Buddha came to help relieve suffering so life is suffering that's the number one truth life is suffering it's interesting because in Sanskrit the word is actually duka I don't know if I'm pronouncing it right but duka means dissatisfaction it means it means struggle conflict overwhelm the light pain it's like the it's just the pain of being alive so I would interpret it as saying like life is about the pain of being alive and when you know that I find that very helpful

to me when I when I come back to that I'm like I'm struggling I'm disappointed here I wish this outcome had been different oh I didn't get that job and then but when I can come back to like oh but that's what life's all about so what do I do now like oh am I clutching am I grasping am I wanting to control outcomes and I'm am I wanting people to like me am I wanting of this stuff outside of me and I'm desperately grasping at all that stuff oh that's the source of my

“suffering because when you're in that kind of Zen mode you can be like oh life is suffering and”

guess what all these things didn't happen and I get to feel disappointment it's like a breath you know it's like in the tennis game it's like oh disappointment breath and then a new breath yeah and then life and then exactly and then you're on you're on to the next play but you don't carry that disappointment with you but you don't stuff it down somewhere and stick it in the closet you don't that acknowledge it you acknowledge it and then you move on exactly you refocus your attention

you breathe it you experience it and then you move on and you heal in the dealing what do you think you if you could have told yourself three things about what you're about to go through with the office

and all the things that came with it all the amazing things and maybe the more amplified

challenging things that you face as well what do you wish you could have told yourself the day before you know getting that role or the day before the first you know time on set to be able to manage it all and love yourself deeper or to use need more time to kind of so I'm going to get I'm going to go a mystical okay so I'm a member of the behind faith so the son of the founder of the behind faith as a man named Abdul Bahá'u and his name means servant of glory

anyways Abdul Bahá'u about a hundred years ago came to the United States and a reporter wanted to interview this famous prophet and was like hey do Bahá'u's believe in Satan and and Abdul Bahá'u said yes we do Satan is the insistent self and I love that so as opposed to like a red guy with a picture or comes to the ground under the ground like whispering in your ears and causing you temptation and he's like the forces of darkness got his demon army or whatever like it's in here

it's in here the insistent self what does that mean what's ego you know so and that goes back

Vedas and the Panashads and the Vedantic practice and Tibetan Buddhism where your struggle is the ego

“right and in Islam jihad the greater jihad is the struggle within yourself the lesser jihad is like”

if there's enemies that are attacking you you fight those enemies but the jihad that everyone is fighting is that struggle within ourselves against our own ego so this idea of struggling against because the ego what does it ego get and again ego's ego's tough because we want to help the self esteem that's not what I'm talking about trying that that part of yourself that is like invious and competitive to a fault and wants to put your to it's a narcissistic part of your

self wants to put yourself above someone else it compares yourself to others that wants to like obtain and get and try and satisfy itself like a dragon with its hoard and so I would have maybe shown myself some some writings about the struggle with the ego if I'm cutting back to 2005

“2006 and that those those years I had a lot of I had a lot of ego struggles and even though I had done”

a lot of thinking and meditating and reading about spiritual practices and and mindfulness and whatnot I was not able to put that in play so it just became life after the office became you know like a pachinko machine you know the little ball goes ah you know like that like my life and my ego became like a pachinko really and worse like this success and here's a bunch of money and you get this movie oh the movie bomb that hole you get a different one and this one is this and all they want to

do and you won the award and oh you lost the Emmy to Jeremy Piven and oh this is it so it's like so it's all of the stuff outside of yourself but where is that where's that garden um that we can that we can nurture and grow within ourselves because that garden you can take with you anywhere yeah when did you feel like you actually got into that space of practicing it you know how many years

it would take for you to finally like okay you know this pinball machine is going everywhere ups and downs

like success and ego and fame and losses when did you start to say oh this is all happening outside of me yeah but let me start to nurture and intend to this garden inside of me for more peace and inner prosperity not outer prosperity I'm gonna be really honest with you I I know I don't look at I'm 57 years old we great man 48 49 okay is when that started so when I was really able to put into practice um some of the spiritual guidance that I had been studying some of the therapeutic

and positive psychology studies that I've been studying and for those and I want to say for those watching at home um that might have a problem with spirituality or god or religion and first of all spirituality and religion or totally separate thing not totally separate but they are separate things then that's fine put that aside and there's a wonderful reservoir of information that you've drawn on on all 1400 of your episodes from the positive psychology movement and so

positive psychology always arrives at the same data points that ancient wisdom from faith

traditions arrives at goes through a different way but when you can learn a great deal from following what you know great teachers you know like you know Jonathan Hight has the happiness hypothesis and so many great books and happiness and podcasts and happiness and well being an Arthur Brooks and David Brooks and all the Brooks there's you those it's the same wisdom it's just kind of packaged a little bit sure well so about eight nine years ago is when you've kind of started to

you know hand your inner guard isn't that pathetic it's not pathetic I'm gonna have it at 33

“kid Jesus yeah I think you know I wish I could have learned these things a lot sooner as well but”

it wasn't really until two years ago when I felt a sense of peace in my heart that I haven't

never felt wow and when I saw when I hit 38 I just turned 40 what what happened there

I only felt peace when I was single but when I was in relationships I felt frapped and I felt a sense of not enoughness and never could be able to right live up to someone's standards and people pleasing and all these things that you mentioned as well similar things and I never

were trapped and so I grew up watching a model of them not really accepting or loving one another

“and I didn't know which night if it was going to be like peaceful or chaotic you know every night”

you just didn't know how they were going to be screaming or reacting or cold shoulder so I just didn't have a healthy model I don't blame them it all it all developed made a certain way to to be a curious learner of this and trying to like support others going through the same challenge it's one of the reasons why I left home with 13 because I was like give me out of here it was just very up and down chaotic at home um my brother was also in prison for four and a half years when I was

eight to 12 so it was just like a lot of sadness, grief, loss, pain within the family dynamic and I know lots of families go through their own unique family dynamic of dysfunction so this was just my own perspective and I just went after a feeling as opposed to being the feeling I went after wanting something and desiring people and then needing to make sure that it worked out and going all in on it even when I had to change who I was to try to make them quote unquote

happy the partners I chose were never happy with me that any set me for what I was and I don't

blame them I'd chosen for a reason I need to learn lessons and it wasn't until I I became fully peaceful and happy and on a healing journey of who I was and everything about my past really grieving all the different parts of me that's when I felt peace it's going back to the first thing talked about which was grieving I did about I don't know nine months of inner child feeling of therapy and you know I'm sorry to interrupt I want to please go have pick it up from there but I just

“want to say like see I think this is super important that you you can share with your audience your”

struggle and to say here I am not really kind of figuring out how to be at peace in a relationship until my late 30s I don't have it all figured out I struggle I think that's I think that's so great that you're you're willing to share that I share I share I share out of here all the time about all my struggles I kind of like the guinea pig of right down you know how I'm suffering and struggling of what I'm you know working out with my health relationships money spirituality so you took

about the inner child work did you do some there nine yeah nine year nine months I was like out of a screen screensaver on my phone of my five real self you know not from a narcissistic point of view like oh look at me as a kid but more of like oh look how sad I was and look how much

I was suffering and I'm sure of myself I was and I was always asking why am I even here what's

“the point of this and and just getting in a trouble a lot and so having compassion for my five”

six you know seven eight year old self and putting myself in the mystical situations spiritually where I'm there having a conversation and comforting my five real self as a 38 year old adult with the wisdom and experience that I have now yeah those experiences reunited me with a broken memory a memory of mine that was broken bruised and hurt psychologically emotionally spiritually and this allowed me to create harmony and congruency with the parts of myself that I was most ashamed of

this is also the time when I was sexually abused by a man that I didn't know five years old my second memory is of being sexually abused in a bathroom by a man that I didn't know

and I never dreamed that like you said going back to agreement I never even acknowledged it

for 25 years wasn't until 10 years ago when I started open up and talk about that and process it with support that released a pressure valve within me that had been building up for 25 years which drove me to be to excel in athletics and business and getting results was like I'm going to prove them wrong no one could hurt me ever again but by not acknowledging or grieving the pain and the sadness of the five year old the nine year old the 13 year old the 27 year old you know

and always different breakdowns I had and always going to the next point without grieving the loss it caused many breakdowns in my life physically relationally financially when on the outside things were good but on the inside it was a one two or three well that's about it and so 10 years ago right when I started this show was a part of that journey of healing and finding people that could share their story so I could try to learn from them and apply something as lessons but two years

ago specifically is when I went even deeper um because I was just I was really struggling in a previous relationship and so I did about six months of intensive weekly therapy of healing the

12 to 18 and 27 it kind of marrying all those memories creating new meaning from them into where

“I'm at no that's what allowed me there was a moment after about I don't know six to seven months”

of this therapy practice I was doing where I was called it's just working with a coach okay not therapist yeah um and but it was just very intense I was doing like seven eight hour sessions you know on Saturdays I was just like I need to figure this out I'll do whatever it takes I'm sick of pain I'm sick of the suffering tell me what to prod practice try do all of whatever you want to do I'll do it okay let me let me let me yeah yeah can I tell you a story you want to belong those same lines

people are watching or like when did Louis turn into opera so when I was struggling a lot there's a while back I went to this therapy retreat center called PCS and Scottsdale and I did a couple different weeks there and different kinds of sessions and different kinds of work one of the things they have you do there not for everyone but they they do inner child work it's therapy 12 hours

“a day you stay off site but you're in and it's very intense mouth they have you on the first day”

go to the mall to the build bear workshop and you build your inner child shut up so I went and I built my inner child has a bear I love this and you name it that's beautiful and you have conversations and you carry it with you the entire week that is a beautiful exercise the entire week so it's like kind of embarrassing like because I was like walking around here's a thing a lot of people that are

watching you're listening they've heard me talk about this stuff for a while but if there's I'm always

trying to be a Trojan horse you know you look at me I'm this big like you know jockey looking guy six four you know former athlete all these different things and I try to draw do fist-looking look like I do of thirteen like far the hand kind of I do was pretty well my EQ is high but I do it very well kidding but if the goal is to the goal has always been to draw people in that want success that want greatness that want you know money all these different things and

talk about these things but also talk about the healing modalities that allow you to feel peaceful and enough when you have the championship when you have the money when you have the role of the

office because you know I was great at sports and accomplished a lot but I'd never felt

I loved myself or that I was loveable kind of like what you talked about then I transitioned to making money and building a business and I built a multi-millionaire company and always different things but I still didn't feel loveable so I was like well how do I get to this place where I can actually except and love me and so this process which sounds similar but I love the idea of having a physical representation of your inner child that is a beautiful experience and and I'm

assuming you had conversations and did exercises and did some weird things that the people are watching to be like okay and if you're crazy man and if someone was doing it and left and left there inner child like on the couch or even went to like go get a cup of coffee and left that they would the therapist be like what the fuck are you doing you can leave your child there like and it was just training of like wow I and heart and when I was a child I was so vulnerable

and I suffered so much trauma and pain but guess what I get to re-parent myself and this is beautiful I get to hold my own hand oh my god I get to see baby rain baby Louis and give him the love that he didn't get when his mom took off on his ear and a half old and my dysfunctional dad was stuck with this beard big weird looking toddler you know and I get to be part of that process

and it was it was really powerful this is a lot of a lot of really intense stuff here's the

thing when I was 21 if I would have watched this conversation or heard this I'd have been like what a bunch of you know a bunch of was just a bunch of don't be such a baby rather simply whatever because I was just in more of an ego mindset and how to have been like just tell me how to make money just tell me how to be happy just tell me how to like just I want to be successful yeah just teach me that like touch with us what are those steps what are those skills and um I hope people watching

are listening you know specifically men if you're watching a listening that you can just listen and and hear this perspective you don't know listen to me listen to you and hear this perspective

“of I truly believe that the highest form of currency right now is peace is you know because”

you said you can have lots of money and still be miserable and unhappy the highest form of currency I think is peace peace with your relationships peace with your career choices or the business

harder and so for me it's figuring out how to stay in congruency and alignment with self

“and being a peaceful state it doesn't mean we're not going to experience stress and challenge”

and overwhelmed and let down all these things but doing the best to stay in peace while allow us to feel better make the people around us feel better and make better decisions in our lives so I hope people are listening I hope the women listening share this with their their male friends and and know it from two different individuals of different backgrounds you as the career and you know enacting and all these different things that you've done in media me from sports and business

that it matters to make money but if you're miserable and you're hurting yourself in that process then it's just amplifying the pain that you already have and so this is the work in my you know men you don't have to go to build a bear and make it inner child you know physical representation and hold a bear around all day but I feel like do something that works for you yeah do something that works for you and for me doing intensive therapy weekly for months supported me for you this experience is two week experience

worked for you and it's an ongoing journey of healing from my experience it doesn't just happen overnight and you're healed for me it's an ongoing practice yeah yeah so yeah that's beautifully beautifully said really and so important and I love that currency of peace like if you can gain peace in your inner garden I like to use that metaphor and and well-being and feel like I am enough you know I've shared this before I actually are mutual friend Justin Baldoni I talked to him about this that when I was

first starting the therapy process my therapist was having me say daily affirmation I'll give

me a list here's a list of like them and it's just you know give me a break I know more of the few things yeah like I'm a good father I'm worthy of love the first one on the list is I am enough while and I picked it up and I was like I am enough nope not doing that it was so hard

“for me to look at or to think about saying that and he's like well that's the one that you have to”

say as I'd hang in on the mirror every morning I had to get up and brush my teeth and look at the mirror and go I am enough and it's have you remember Stewart's Molly that that that center and live character is like I'm good enough thought darn it and yeah yeah yeah yeah Al Franken played this character Stewart's Molly insert clip but it's it's corny it's schmaltsy but it it really helped me but it also helped me to see like wow I really don't believe that

I am that that's the interesting thing how do you because I think when we say a false affirmation that we haven't actually believed yet yeah sometimes it's like okay we're we're lying to ourselves when when you don't believe it and yet you're looking at it you're saying it over and over again so I love that practice but it's like we have our our emotional state has to catch up to it and actually to learn how to process grief heal and actually believe it so how did you build

yourself in your an overcoming the insecurities of the self doubt in order to actually believe that you were enough not just say the affirmation of it well that's a really good point

“and I hadn't thought about that but I I agree with you I think it can be dangerous to kind of say”

a bunch of affirmations that you don't really believe like you're gonna manifest them but you don't have to believe it that organic authentic kind of kernel of belief inside your your got but I think that what it did for me is it kind of it's kind of like uh and the show kung fu which I reference in a book soul boom this one of my favorite television shows of all time the he's like when you can snatch the pebble from my hand then you will be ready to go and that

that's a runner through the show and finally quite chained cane is able to snatch the pebble from

the hand and he leaves the shell in monastery and goes to the old west and fights a bunch of racist cowboys anyways another another topic but it's like when you can snatch the pebble from my hand of really believing I am enough then you're ready you know then you're really ready so for me was I would say it and I was not getting the pebble I and I recognized oh I don't believe that I'm enough I really don't and I I've got work to do so it was helpful for me to kind of go like it was

oh my god I mean it was a good it was a good you know 10 years of me saying I am enough when I didn't believe it until it started through the work that I was doing to kind of believe it in the last like eight and nine ten years I've I really have come to believe that I am enough

I think there's a lot of people that don't believe there enough which for me my

mission is to give people the the tools inspiration the expertise the the knowledge the science the research from others on how they can start to believe in themselves more

“I believe self-doubt is the killer of dreams are they in hold us back”

from going after what we want it you know when we doubt ourselves we lack to courage or even worse when we accomplish the thing and we don't feel enough it's like what will make me feel enough now is accomplishing and sports you are accomplishing and acting and you still weren't feeling

enough with like the height of your career with that show right it was like okay why do I still

not feel enough and I believe when we can overcome that insecurity and doubt that's when we can start to really step into a beautiful way of being and it's been a process and a journey for me I'm curious what do you think it was that allowed you start to believe that you were enough after all those years of kind of singing and practicing in the modalities and the training was there

“one thing that were you like okay now I'm starting to feel it look what was that”

letting go or skill that you learned that's a great question and I wish I had kind of like some some nugget but it just it just was it was a shift you know it was a lot of work it was like you know it's like you put in the work you can you know use athletics as a metaphor like you practice now you just you practice and you work out it and you fail and you struggle and there's ups and downs and you know it was finding a really good therapist and doing some

retreats and doing some reading and working with my wife a lot I learned a ton from my wife um she's much better at this stuff than I am and um and it it it wasn't kind of like an aha thing like oh oh oh over time yeah I just when I look back on it now like oh yeah I'm I'm so much more at peace now than I was and and and I have been for many years but when I look back at those years um some people might say rain well I mean okay now you can have peace more peace

because you've had you make all this money and you have this success and you've had your career come through but you know I'm a struggling actor here in in L.A. and I'm you know barely scraping my and I get rejected constantly so do I have to wait that long until I could feel enough yes

“no wait no anyone anyone can do the work I think that um”

uh there's there's a lot to say on that um and and also started to draw out there do you think you would have been able to accomplish what you accomplished with with bite feeling you were enough before so that that is an interesting conversation because for both of us we felt like we weren't enough we worked our tails off to kind of prove to the world that we're enough and we scraped our way up and built careers right me this weird looking actor guy and um um uh if I had felt

list out peaceful and just content with who I was at 24 would I have striven the way I did would I had struggled and clawed my way from you know unemployed actor in New York City to you know eminominated you know television show and and lots of money like what I have you know sometimes and you see that with so many people that are really driven there's something kind of broken inside them that gods them on so I don't um but I do think that uh so I don't I don't I don't know

I don't I don't know what the answer is to that I don't know what the answer is just

thing to reflect on though yeah yeah it's an interesting conversation to have you mentioned you mentioned your wife how long you've been married oh man might have hit your draw wear yeah 28 years 27 years yeah what is the thing you love the most about your wife I um I love so much about my wife I can't even I can't even begin to describe that she has the most beautiful heart and the most beautiful sense of wonder of anyone that I've ever known like it can be

a poem she's reading it can be a flower that she sees it can be we have all these weird pets something with our one of our animals the way she loves animals like there's this and to watch her kind of like interact with something and it could be a you know a video on Instagram of like an

heart centered delight and wonder that she has is um really uh it's really special and I get to

“witness that on a multiple times a day and I and this goes to and I'm sure you've talked a lot”

about it on your show I haven't listened all 14 and so I guess and it goes to gratitude which is

one of the most powerful forces in the universe and I'm on a gratitude text chain so every morning

I get up my group of guys really and five things were grateful for a wake up five things were grateful for so it shifts that mindset from that Buddhist idea of Doka of dissatisfaction to what we're grateful for so I get to say that I am grateful for my wife and I get to feel that gratitude every day now could I look at all the things that she doesn't do well and that bug me and that annoying me and that we've had a history of yeah of course I could and we all struggle with that in relationships but

you know to to lead with gratitude um doors open. What advice would you give to

people in relation because you were you've been with her for a while before you you know we're successful

right what advice would you give to people in relationships um by the way she liked being with me back when I was broke a lot better than really successful in the office because I went through a couple of years and I was just kind of a rage hurts yeah interesting yeah what advice would you give to couples where you know maybe one or both of them are starting to like get some notoriety or you know followers or success or their business or careers taking off and they're get a little ego and they're

you know having some attention from the outside world what would you share your wisdom on

“how to set your relationship up for more harmony and this is what I think spirituality”

comes into play because um if we are spiritual beings having a human experience then we are there in a couple of ship to support each other's spiritual journey yes so I get to um I you know achieve kind of fame and success from the office and she gets to support me on my spiritual journey of going through that the good and the bad interesting right and then you know she gets you know she she's an author she publishes a book she she you know writes something new she struggles

I support her on her journey on her successes on her highs and lows so marriage all too often I think can feel um kind of circumstantial um and it needs to feel and I think there's a reason why the faith traditions when you get married in front of God and like tell death to us part but like

“you're the idea that you're your souls are wedded you know and beyond this world like”

into eternal world you're gonna there's a companionship there so it's it's it's that spiritual support um and that we're we're each gonna have times when we need more support and we're able to give more and there's a there's a dance there's a Ian and Yang kind of back and forth that's beautiful I don't know why I'm curious about this but who is the the person or persons that you respect the most in this business the the business of Hollywood the business show business which is kind

of like a circus I feel like um are there are a couple people you know and you don't have to throw any one of the bus who you know you don't think is is doing well or whatever but is there a couple of the people that are there from the office or since after them that you really respect you think they're living life you know in a great way as well as how many a great career that got solid relationships you feel like they have a strong foundation emotionally uh there are a couple people

you really respect or you know it's as you were asking that question I was like oh Steve Crowe and then I was like well really know it's more agenda and then I was like well Angela's like I was like well you know John Krissinski that's pretty good that's like B.J. and so I I really have to say shout out to my office cast members like that entire cast I really admire and respect how they

live their lives in Hollywood and the choices that they make Steve puts family first and he is he's

a very kind of shy and reserved guy and um really cherishes his privacy but works hard on his on his marriage and the life of his family uh Jenna and Angela are the same way but I really

spread joy and positivity in their work and John you know who's really taken off as a director and

an actor and all kinds of things like again his family first absolutely his his wife and daughters

and he the way that he kind of keeps his ego in check and is able to really focus on doing some really great and lasting work and I admire the whole office cast I know I'm not trying to

“cop out like um but they all um have things that I that I admire and that I learn from that's cool I think”

when we met I think it was six years ago actually as well they were saying but uh I think when you walked in the studio my other studio one of the first things you said is like John Krissinski I think you said it six years ago so um you still pretty close with a lot of that group is that is that a family that's still close like everyone's kind of like still in contact yeah we text all the time we have

text chains and that's nice talks supporting each other celebrate each other's wins that's amazing

absolutely that's great because I'm assuming you could be with on a show or on a movie said for a few months and and and acts like you're really bonding but then everyone goes after the next project or thing and then you you kind of lose touch right yep but you guys have have stayed together we have yeah that's amazing yeah I'm really excited about this book Soul Boom why we need a spiritual revolution because I feel like there's a lot of sadness and suffering like we've

talked about in the world and um anytime someone wants to open up in a spirituality which I think is really about having a deeper relationship with self acceptance self love with yourself and with

the universe um I think it's exciting so I'm so glad that you're you're talking about this

and that this book is out I'm curious what is the spiritual lesson because you mentioned you're atheist for a while and you know you've gone through your your your faith journey what was the spiritual lesson you learned as a kid that maybe you let go over for God or rejected but have now

“come back to accept well it's so funny that you mentioned that because that's how I start the book”

is comparing the spiritual journey to two of my favorite television shows from the 1970s which I experienced as a kid and I've done a lot of reflecting back on which is kung fu like I talked about which is quite chaincane going through the rough and tumble west as a shawl and monk he's half a Chinese and he's uh and he experiences a lot of racism and a lot of violence and aggression and he takes his eastern wisdom and teaches people's lesson and he also kicks ass when he needs to

you know with kung fu there's going to be a couple of fights per episode which everyone we all waited for with baited breath and that I compare to like our personal spiritual journey so you Lewis you've talked to 1400 people you've gained this wisdom this insight but then you go out in the world and you have your girlfriend and your family and you're navigating the world and trying to use your wisdom better yourself continue you're doing your therapy work you're trying

to you're trying to make yourself a better person increase your positive qualities your divine qualities your spiritual qualities some could save compassion and kindness and love right so that's that path my other favorite TV show from the 70s was Star Trek so Star Trek I see as also a spiritual journey not on an individual level but on a collective level because people forget then in Star Trek the mythology is there's been a huge world war three

and out of the ashes of that terrible conflagration humanity has succeeded and thrived and overcome its past divisions there is I don't know getting one upset there is a one world government so a lot of people are like are one world government like well Star Trek yeah pretty successful Federation one world government I'm all for it but we've overcome racism we've overcome sexism there's no more income inequality right technology has allowed us to have

what are they called the little things we can make a bowl of soup or you can they're replicator and you can like get anything out of it so they've technology is taking us to a point where then humanity is able to seek out new life and new civilizations and spread technology and peace and in connection throughout the universe and be filled with wonder and whatnot and you know I don't

“think Jean Roddenberry intended the show to be spiritual I think it was you know about technology”

the wonders of technology from the 60s and 70s but really humanity has matured right and even

insisted when they were doing Star Trek the next generation like humanity at this point

“that was further than the original series that they're they not be in conflicts you don't”

see Picard a number one like arguing or no we should go over there no Picard you idiot when option why I'm there we should like the humanity has like figured out that's matured beyond even conflict so this is I get into a lot of stuff in the book I get into depth consciousness the meaning of life I will chapter on God called the notorious GOD I talk about sacredness looking for the holy in our lives religion the purpose of religion you know religion good or bad

why why is there religion but a lot of it towards the tail end of the book is really about this

Star Trek journey because when a lot of people think about spirituality they think about cultivating serenity and finding and quelling anxiety and finding beauty and some purpose

“and some connection but it's it's here in the heart and that's very important and you this”

where you got to start and it's really important but we also have a spiritual journey collectively on planet earth to try and make the world a better place and for example you think about compassion like that's something we can get better at is compassion right feeling for other people you know whenever I'm at my worst I'm not in compassion I'm like oh that screw him oh that's that's but you know like can be judgmental and like oh there's idiots why didn't they do that

and they should just do you know and but when I'm able to increase my compassion say oh we're all in this human struggle together all those poor people like imagine just how much an increase of compassion could help us as a species move forward on the planet to to maximize like we're talking

like Jesus like compassion or Buddha like compassion it could be powerful for us in fact I

I have a little scenario in there I was like what if humanity could invent a compassion machine so picture like an MRI machine or something we put electrodes on your scalp or whenever it is I don't know what it looks like but then you're able to connect with someone on the other side of the world he's a goat herder in Yemen or it's you know someone plowing a field in Pakistan or whatever it is someone completely different than you and in this compassion machine you're able

to see and feel the world through their eyes and through their heart like imagine if if we were actively every day everyone spent half an hour in a compassion machine and we had just in much deeper understanding the difficulties what it's like to be a goat herder in Yemen or a farmer in Pakistan and but these are some of like the spiritual tools that lie in the world's faith traditions that can be transformative for us as a species on the planet so my five-year-old lesson these two TV

shows kind of show us the way forward well that's good as a good answer I've got a couple final questions for you but I want people to get the book sold boom why we need a spiritual revolution make sure you guys check it out get a couple copies for your friends as well do you know about the grant study out of Harvard University yeah yes 75 years study 300 man Harvard University searching for what makes a good life all these data points thousands of data points over the

decades the final doctor overseeing the study doctor George valent I think there's a new one

“now but he was before he says his final culmination was the only thing that really matters in life”

are your relationships to other people so wherever I went in the world and I saw people succeeding it well being at at inspiration and happiness content meant they're connected to other people it's community it's all about community now you guys govern marty talks about it I'm going to paraphrase if I think it's the relationships with others but also the relationship to ourselves and making sure we have a good relationship with self it's hard to have great relationships with others if

we don't have a beautiful relationship with self if we don't accept have compassion for ourselves or the parts of ourselves that we are there much to shamed of or guilty or insecure about

developing a equality relationship with self and it's it's for me it's inspiring to see you continue

“to develop a beautiful relationship with yourself so that you can be of service more in these”

other ways that you're doing with this book and the show that you have going on some excited about that here's a question I wanted to ask you about comparison because you mentioned this earlier in the interview about comparison and I'm curious how can someone learn to not compare themselves to others in an industry you know whether it's acting or sports or business or podcasting or books whatever it is did you compare yourself a lot

when you were kind of becoming famous and rising up in this space or were you pretty focused on your own race and you weren't thinking about what everyone else was doing and if so how did you overcome that comparison yeah mentality so theater Roosevelt said a comparison is the thief of joy and if if you are looking for joy if you're looking for bliss contentment and self-exceptance that's a good place to start stop comparing yourself to others because you just don't know

there are circumstances you don't know your circumstances and you don't know where a lot of people that I was incredibly envious of early on in my career really theater in New York oh it's something I've struggled with you know my whole life I'm gonna really let it go now but um and you know they had their moment and let's say New York theater in the 90s Broadway or whatever it is exactly and then and then I've had my mom we all have our moments if you have talent and but it's it's a really

“important one of like it's I don't know if there's any kind of miracle to it it's just stop it”

don't do it don't appear yourself that's it it does it doesn't work it doesn't help you envy is like that's in every spiritual tradition right envy and what is it the green when it shakes bear call envy the green gobble in or something like that maybe um so yeah that that has been a big struggle for me it's especially a struggle for actors because you're like because you're going into a role and auditioning in this 50 other guys or whatever you're like 20

guys in a room and one of you gets the part like oh he did it and then you go in again and the same guy gets the thing you know like God him you know and so you know like uh Nick Offerman is a great example like he he and I used to audition for all the same roles and then I got on the office I actually got him um introduced him to the producers of the office and they had his picture on the wall and they thought of him for Parks and Recreation which was going

to be a comedy spin off and I'm not saying I got him the role but I you know open the door then he had that thing and now he's he's been doing so much great work on in television and having a career that was time when because we're similar actors in a lot of ways we're different in a lot of ways as well but you know he's uh and I just remember those early years of

the government being in the audition like oh you again wow and we never had that with each other

and we were able to really support each other and then he's written a bunch of books I've written a bunch of books and that's cool we support each other there as well but yeah it's it's been a struggle

“well I guess if you want to stay miserable compare yourself to everyone right you want to be”

yeah yeah if you're loved everyone if you it's a great place to start you know if you want to start like I'm gonna you you're talking about like school of greatness right like these action items that you can make your life better number one stop comparing yourself to others I love that okay love it rain uh you're just as good a podcast host as rich role okay all right for me the thing that I've learned that helped me because I used to I don't know if I used to compare but

I used to compete okay until 10 years ago and I'm still like competitive in certain life but more like towards games it's not about like I don't know my business so like okay I want to be the best I can be but I'm not trying to necessarily be others yeah because I feel like that's a scarcity business and a scarcity world where I've really shifted into collaboration as much as possible yeah like okay here's someone me and rich it been friends for you know 11 years and uh and so we just support

each other you know how can I help you in succeeding and you can help me in succeeding yeah let's just collaborate more and there's abundance as room for both I love I love those words scarcity and abundance because if you've undergone some kind of child trauma and you feel less than you feel

scarcity and you feel like I'm never gonna get what I need and there's not gonna be enough for me right

dollars in the bank they'll hide cookies under the mattress a phrase that they're gonna be hungry you know

“and to just know there is enough for everyone we can all have some success and uh we can kind of live”

our lives and in abundance it probably wasn't until four years ago where I stopped sleeping on people's couches like when I would travel like I used to like travel and but I could I know in the city back in crash right as opposed to like just paying for the hotel room because I was like this is money I could save and you know not be broke again and just make sure I can stack my account or something maybe it was like 60 or 70 years ago but it felt like it was more recent where

it was like okay I can afford a foot fell I've under the crash I was almost couch all these different things I wanted to acknowledge you rain for this beautiful conversation for me an open, vulnerable, real

authentic just like we talked about before we started I appreciate your realness and I always you know

see your content from time to time and you know for me I appreciate when someone who is extremely successful in their craft can open up about the different challenges of struggles and and things that they've had to overcome so I really appreciate that about you I want people to get the book soul boom why we need a spiritual revolution and also make sure to check out the new show that's coming out geography of bliss and if they go to your Instagram and your website they can see more

updates about all this stuff and find out where to watch and how to get the book and exactly all these different things links links handles everything well have it all tags everything soul boom dot calm rain will soon everywhere as well we'll have it all linked up for you guys is anything else we should send people to directly for you and that's that's all that's all good that's it yeah um I

“asked you these two questions in the previous episode you probably won't remember your answers”

I have them up in front of me so I'm gonna cheat oh my god and um see if you match these two responses

it's been six years now so they might be a different response to these two questions the first one is

called the three truths so imagine hypothetical scenario you get to live as long as you want but eventually it's your last day on this earth and you get to create the accomplished be do all the things you want to do from this moment until then but for whatever reason in this hypothetical scenario you've got to take all of your work with you so no one has access to this book or any podcast you've ever done or any interview it's all goes somewhere else hypothetical

but you get to leave behind three truths that you've learned throughout your life three lessons that you'd share with the world what would be those three truths for you that you'd share well one is uh the one we started with uh which is you know what's something that I know for sure I know for sure then I'm a spiritual being uh having a human experience

I would say another truth is that story telling is one of the most powerful forces on planet earth

humans need to storytell we thrive when we tell stories and by this I mean right ponds make movies tell our stories share our personal details connect with people talk you can do it professionally you can be professional storyteller you know in film and television and theater are on in fiction um and you could do it in your daily life but there that is it uh one of the most powerful and important uh forces and I would say to the other thing is uh we need more joy and

hope in the world and one of the greatest services that we can ever give to people is to bring them joy and bring them hope and that's that's where the work lies beautiful well if people want to know what the previous three truths are make sure you check out the other episode we'll link it up so you can see we're not gonna tell us we can see where they uh where they differ or where they're the same um this is the final question for you what is your definition of greatness

“I believe in God so I believe that God has given me talents certain talents and faculties”

and greatness is me maximizing uh my God given talents and faculties so I learned a lot about this when I realized like oh I have the ability to make people laugh I'm kind of goofy I'm kind of weird looking good sense of humor good timing I can use language let me use all of those skills to try to make people laugh and um that worked out pretty well it worked out pretty well for me but we all have to find what that skill set is that gives us the most deepest richest

journey towards greatness make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full

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in that review I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support

and serve you moving forward and I want to remind you of no one has told you lately that you are loved you are worthy and you matter and now it's time to go out there and do something great