Why You're Afraid to Share (And What It's Costing You) | Leslie John

stayed silent in conversations to not share because you were afraid of what your partner or

“your friend might think of you? If you've ever wondered what you should share to your boss,”

your co-worker, or your intimate partner to make sure you have the best relationship this conversation is for you. In long-term relationships, why do they fall apart? Well, there was a study that looked at people who have loved each other for years and years and years. They brought the couples into the lab and they got each person to try to guess what their spouse was thinking and feeling and they were wrong 80% of the time. Really? She's a Harvard business school professor

award-winning researcher and author who has been featured in the New York Times The Wall Street Journal and the Economist where she teaches the art and science of communication. Leslie, thank you so much for being here. Another thing that really compounds the issue here is a concept called

“mind-reading expectations. It's really insidious because those of us who have mind-reading expectations,”

we implicitly believe that our partners should just know how we feel. They should just know that we had a bad day and that we're upset just by the way we look or something. When they don't respond, then we get upset. When if we had just said something, I had a shitty day, I'm exhausted. Can I have a hug, right? What happens to a person inside of them when they decide not to share what's

really going on when those things start to pile up? Well, okay, so the first.

I'm excited because you've been studying the art of undersharing and oversharing and the power of why we should be more vulnerable in our sharing and share more versus being silent. And when we are silent in relationships, in relationships with people in our lives, it actually can hurt us. And I'm curious why does it hurt us being silent in relationships undersharing or not being vulnerable versus oversharing in relationships? Right, right, right. So there is such a thing as oversharing.

Like TMI is alive and well. But again and again, I've found that the greater issue is undersharing. We worry way too much about TMI and we don't worry enough about TLI, too little information. And where this, so relationships is where this, it plays out in all domains of life, but in relationships, one of the things we see, it's really sneaky because when you say like share more open up or like, yeah, yeah, share, open up. It sounds great, right? But as I wrote the book, the writing the book

itself for me was amazing therapy. I love my therapist, but like it was, it, it changed me. And one of the ways it really changed me was what I learned about in relationships. So in long-term relationships, why do they fall apart? Well, it's not usually some dramatic affair. I mean, that can happen and it's horrible. But they more often they break down because of a slow distancing. It's kind of like you start off, you know, the old analogy you've got your two

boats and you're like a degree off. And so at the beginning, and then, and then if you never

course correct, you just end up, you do nothing. It's just in friendships, co-worker relationships, or internet relationships. It is, I mean, all relationships, but I would say particularly romantic relationships. And here's the reason. So what happens is when we are in a long-term romantic relationship, we do know the person better with time, right? The longer you've been with someone, you know more, you know their values, their traits. The problem, though, is that are confidence

that we know them out matches, outpaces are actual knowledge. And that's where the problem begins, right? Because if you think you know your partner better than you actually do, then you assume you know you stop asking, you do the same you assume they know you, you stop sharing. And that's of course where the problem begins because if you stop sharing, you just stop learning about each

“other. And then you get all these kind of little spats that emerge. And so you need to keep”

oversharing and longer your in the relationship. You need to keep asking, keep answering. And here to make it more concrete, um, when there was a study that looked at people who have been loved each other for years and years and years. So like the average age, the average like the marriage was like 12 years. And what they did was they brought the couples into the lab and they got each person to try to guess what the other person was, what their spouse was thinking and feeling.

Like neither of my marriages has lasted. It's been that long. Yeah. You know, I'm like,

“and then they just, but they thought they knew, right? And so another thing that really compounds”

the issue here is a concept called mind reading expectations, which is as it sounds. I mean, it sounds crazy. It's like, of course you can't read my mind. When you say it out loud like that, however, it's really insidious because those of us who have mind reading expectations, we implicitly believe that our partners should just know how we feel. They should just know that we had a bad day and that we're upset just by like the way we look or something. And so then what because our

partner can't read our mind, when they don't respond, then we get upset. And then then we do the stonewalling, right? So then it's just this compounding of errors. When if we had just said something, I had a shitty day. I'm exhausted. Can I have a hug, right? We express our needs. And so the people that the people have a high mind reading expectations, it's actually a trait interestingly. It's pretty stable. Some of our high, some are a little, I'm high. So the people who have the,

they, it's associated with lower relationship quality, lower length of relationships, but there's hope because self-awareness, right? There's actually a scale. I have one on my website that you can assess yourself. I am very high on it. But once I learned that and their questions like my partner should just know what I'm thinking, my partner should respond without me having to say anything. And once those items were presented to me so starkly, and I'd filled it out,

I said you have very high mind reading expectations. I changed a lot. I realized I need to say what feels like over communicating is just communicating. Right. And, and my marriage is like it was

already good. Second marriage. I had to start a marriage. So the second one is like not making the

same mistakes. And it's just gotten so much richer. Wow. Okay. So even married twice. Yeah. You're still married. Yeah. The Halloween married for the first marriage? Five years. Okay. And how old were you when you got married? 28. 28, five years. So divorced around 33, I guess. Yeah. Why did that marriage end based on the research you've done in your book? Yep. Now that you have wisdom, I'm sure it's my collection of things. This isn't a therapy. But why do you feel like

“based on this conversation and this research? Yeah. What would you have done differently?”

Even if it was still the raw match or there wasn't a right fit or whatever. I mean, maybe some of those stuff happened. Right. Right. What would you have done differently before getting married to see if it was the right thing? Definitely. I mean, looking back. Well, number one is I was too young. 28. I did not have the emotional understanding of myself that I do now. A lot of people do when they're that age. But I did not. Emotions. I love my family. And you're like,

starting a sentence to buff them off. I did have a happy childhood. But we did not talk about

feelings or emotions. So I never, I remember when I was going through a divorce, the divorce

in my 30s. And my therapist said, how do you feel? And I started listing cognitions. Like thoughts. And he's like, those aren't feelings. And like, well, okay, I'm sad. It's like, can you be more specific? Finally, he handed me this thing called an emotions wheel, which helps you. It's in my book. It helps you realize the multiplicity of emotions. And it helps you understand yourself better. So, so that's kind of where like at why I say I was too young emotionally.

You didn't feel emotions or you blocked the emotions. I thought that was a joke. Sorry. I did feel emotions. Everybody has emotions. I couldn't communicate with you. I didn't understand my emotions. I didn't honor my emotions. I didn't validate them. If I was feeling something uncomfortable, I'd be like, I just dismiss and not even engage with them. I didn't have an emotional vocabulary. I didn't know the differences between like disappointment, frustration, anger, sadness. Like,

it was all like bad good, right? Like, I'm a recovering emotional literate. And so that didn't

help matters. I mean, so I guess the main reason is me and that like, these, I would never,

“he's a wonderful person, but I never, and never should have married him. And I think that”

part of this emotional understanding of oneself. Like, I'm a huge EQ is like where it's at. IQ is great, but says Harvard professor truly. Like, EQ is, if I could choose one or the other, hands down, I would choose EQ. And I wouldn't have said that ten years ago. Really? So, it's so interesting because most of my childhood, I probably had the lowest IQ of everyone. But the highest EQ. Why I learned through suffering and feeling like I was so stupid.

And I was in the bottom of my class all through elementary school high school college. I was in the

four. So it's just reconfirmed. Oh, I'm stupid. Right. I don't know, you know, I try to figure this out.

“No matter how hard I tried, it was like, I'm not going to be smart. But then what I do is I would just”

observe people all day long and study people's behaviors and watch why are they reacting that way. And I would just sit there and, you know, people watch all day in school, all day out of school. I would just sit there and, you know, not like a creeper, but I would just be like observing people all day long. Yeah. And I was constantly reflecting on why did they respond this way? Yeah. And when I asked this question, why did they do this with their face? Why did they lean in? Why did they, and so I became a

really good observer and a really good listener. And so it's interesting because it's talking about the power of oversharing and revealing yourself. But I became a really good listener and like

just kept following up with telling me more. Tell me more. Why this? Why that? And by doing that,

I was able to build great relationships with people and understand where people were coming from. Yeah. And I think when you understand more people, people are coming from, they feel connected. You feel connected. You feel safe. You like people more. You want to hang out with them more and you create opportunities with each other, whether you're in friendship or work or whatever might be. And so it's probably why I got into this show because I'm asking questions. So let me

ask you this, do you ever find, did you find, do you find this pattern of, be honest, people liking, seeming to like you more than you like them, like people wanting to hang out with you more than, yes, this season of life for sure. I mean, for many years, when I didn't have friends,

and when I didn't have a business when I was kind of getting into the working force of the

“business world, in order to create opportunities for yourself, you need to know lots of people.”

You know, if you're starting a business, you need to get customers and clients. You need to put yourself out there and meet everyone essentially that you can and offer services and help and free things to people to get in the door. Then once you get clients or you have a business, whatever might be, I realized like I was giving too much to too many people and I had no energy for me. And I didn't feel like I was receiving in return from enough people. So I became an

overgiver, over share, over people pleaser because I wanted everyone to like me. And I wanted to feel safe emotionally. And then it took the last like seven years, like a swing of me, learning how to create better boundaries, learning how to heal deeper, to not feel like I need everyone to like me. Yeah. That's so important. Realization. And by doing that, by creating these boundaries, it kind of, you know, I've reclaimed that energy and I've put it into the people

that I care about the most. And it doesn't mean I don't speak to people that reach out of it, but it's like, I learned to say no a lot more than when I was, you know, my 20s and only three.

“Because one of the ways that I think of that, saying no, is what are you saying yes to? Like when I”

say no to meeting with a new doctoral student at five o'clock at night, I'm saying yes to playing with my kids. And so once I thought about it, it's like so empowering thing about that. The reason I asked that question about the potential asymmetry of liking or connectedness is that you naturally, I mean, you do this now for your job, but from a young age, it sounds like you were really curious and you were asking questions. And when you ask people questions,

they get to disclose to you. And when people reveal to people love revealing, like it turns out, I know some people might be like, what? I don't like revealing. You do like revealing in certain contexts. I will tell you data. But, you know, you're expressing interest in them and you're giving them attention. And they get to share and revealing, not, I'm not talking about like tricky conversations stuff, but revealing your hopes and dreams, your preferences, it actually activates

the pleasure centers of the brain. So it literally is enjoyable. And that fosters trust. And so it, I was thinking of a funny, a funny situation where one of the ways things that this can kind of go wrong, where we see asymmetries of sharing. So a very healthy sharing to build relationships, friendships, colleagueships, romantic relationships is the dance of reciprocity. I reveal something, you, you reciprocate, maybe raise the attitude. And it, it's this beautiful unfolding,

gradual escalation together. Sometimes it goes awry for various reasons. One of the funny ways it can go awry. Well, funny, because I'm going to tell a story at my expense. You're welcome. Is when you, so if someone reveals a lot to you and you don't reveal to them, you sometimes one can feel like they, let me say it differently, parasocial relationships. These are so brutal for this. So Jerry Seinfeld, I love Jerry Seinfeld. I've watched every episode of

Seinfeld. I feel like we, like he knows me because we mistake the fact that I know a lot about

but I feel like for friends. And so one time when I was at a theater with my husband,

at the intermission, I saw Jerry first names and his wife. And I just impossibly walked up to him,

like, hey Jerry, a curled friend. Yeah, he's like, and he obviously, I was like, oh my god, I immediately regret this decision because then I've suddenly took his perspective that, oh wow, like this is some crazy, stranger lady. It must happen to him all the time. And so he has a thing, what he does is he says, good to see you, good to see you and he just keeps walking. Like as fast as you could walk without a calling running. And so there's kind of some walky things that can

happen sometimes. But what I wanted to, um, the, when we were talking about, you had started with the,

“like, getting married, um, what happened. And I think it speaks to this important point about”

emotional intelligence and how, like you growing up, you really understood people because you observed and you're curious and you got better community. Plus and skills. I think I understood people because I felt very deeply. And I didn't have any friends. And I felt very incapable of, of being smart based on my results. Right. Right. Right. Right. So since I felt deeply, and I, I allowed myself to be in a suffering state internally, constantly. Yes. Oh,

like what's wrong with you? Why am I here? What's the point of this life? Kind of like this

roominating thought and feeling of like, I sucked. I'm bad. I'm wrong. I'll never be as good as anyone

in my class, let alone in the world. What's the point of being alive? This type of roomination. Yeah. And I think because of that, I eventually got the courage to say, okay, let me,

“let me reflect on why do my feeling this. And let me try to learn. If I can't learn in school,”

let me find ways to learn outside of the school. And that's human dynamics, human behavior. And why do people think and feel an act and speak and walk and talk the way they do? Let me just watch them and reserve and try to learn from human dynamics behavior. Yeah. And so as a, I guess as a Harvard business professor, what I'm hearing you say is that you think EQ is way more valuable

than IQ. Completely. But most people in the world are trying to become smarter at something and

accomplish more degrees, more credibility when that's not the answer. I know I'm not doing much for our sales of our degrees. I know, but what we have like increasingly courses that are like, the courses that are really popular for the executives are leadership, communication. But it's so frustrating because the MBAs, like the the lowest ranked course is often the leadership course. And then they come as alumni and they're like, I wish I paid attention because everything is

psychology, everything is communication. Now here's a question for you. Do you feel like people should get married if they have a low EQ? Oh, I love that question. Love, love, you have a high, if you're really smart and intelligent, you have a high EQ, you have a low EQ, should you get married? This is tricky because I do think you need to understand yourself to get married. You need to understand what you want. And that is EQE, right? But I also think that so I, because you essentially

said that you had high EQ below. Right, right, and I should not have gotten married before should not have gotten married. You didn't even know yourself a motion. Correct. Correct. But you probably knew on paper or analytically what you wanted. I want to be married. I want to have safety. I want our home. I want a guy and he was got this job or looks in way. So analytically and on paper, you knew what you wanted. Yes, but I think even that's still, that's analytical, but it's also

“superficial. And I think that asking yourself like, what are my goals? Do I want children?”

What are like, where would I like to live? What do I want my days to look like? Those are things that really matter in a relationship that aren't like super deep, touchy, feeling emotions, understanding yourself in that way. But they're still really important things to understand about yourself and your partner. And I think people, I know that people differ a lot in relative strengths than relative dominance of IQ and EQ. You know, in academia, I can say this is an

academic. Like IQ reign supreme to supreme in my view. And really to at the expense of EQ in many cases. And tons of my academic friend, they're wonderful people, they're happily married, you know. And I so I think it's like you got to find your match, right? And for me, I am a very cuddly, touchy, feeling person. And so that was a really important part of me that I hadn't honored and understood. Wait, so okay, I'm confused now because you had a high EQ, low EQ,

before getting married. You were more in your head. But now I'm hearing you say you're a touchy,

it's what I mean. No, so what I was back then is I was, I wasn't in touch with myself, right? I would dismiss my feelings. I would dismiss my needs. I would say like the things that I wanted in a guy like I wanted. Now I can say it because I'm aware of it. I wanted the like, swoonworthy, like just that exciting, the romance. Like I wanted that. But I dismissed it. I like I shut it down. Why? Well, lots of things about my upbringing. And, you know, I don't want

“to drag things in. But, but so that's what I mean. Does that help make sense? Of course, yeah, yeah.”

But I also think it's really interesting. We were talking initially a little bit about being parents.

Oh my gosh, I just wouldn't change that for the world. It's so grounding. It's so amazing.

And I, um, so I think about this a lot. I'm like my parents did a great job in so many ways. Like look at look at where I am. And you feel like my theory is parents, you can't be perfect. You do your best. Every parent screws their kid up in some way. My goal is to not screw my kids up in the same way. My parents screwed me up. And so with my kid. But now I might be overcracting. But it is informed on data. So with my children, my boys, I'm very like, how are you feeling?

Like I'm trying to get them. And they can now, they can articulate their emotions. It's insane. They're like, I'm feeling disappointed. I'm feeling frustrated. I'm feeling like more sophisticated than just the basic ones. And I'm like, oh my god, that's amazing. Um, and so I'm really trying to nurture that so much so that it's interesting because when my mother, my mother is incredibly bright. And she back in the day, you know, she was born in 1949 and back in the day, IQ reined even more

supremely. And she skipped at least two grades. And she always did amazing in school. She's

the pharmacist super successful in everything. But she struggled in other ways, more subtle ways, which I learned recently, like in the past few years, as I've deepened my relationship with my

“mother. And I think my theory on that is because imagine this, you're you're two or three years”

younger and you're a girl. Like teenage girls are just so harsh. Like that would have been so hard for her when you don't have the like emotional maturity. And so my son, he's just turned five and we've done the opposite. We've held him back a year. And B and my mom's like, why are you doing that again? She respects it. But she's like, he's really smart. He doesn't, and you're like, yeah, he's super smart. But the emotional maturity, I want him to be able to deal with difficult feelings,

process them. So anyways, I digress. There's something about this. You said earlier about the mind reading expectations. You know, in male female, intimate relationships, who has higher mind reading expectations, only other. So I would guess that I would guess that women have higher

“mind reading expectations. And when someone has a high mind reading, but not by much.”

Okay. Well, when someone has a high mind reading expectation of their intimate partner, yes, expecting them to know what they think and feel at all times, or when they're feeling some emotions they don't like. Yep. What does that do for the relationship when someone has high mind reading expectations of their partner? Yeah, exactly. So it's brutal. Speaking from experience. So it, what it means is that you have unreasonable expectations, right? And then it

sets you up for disappointment because if you implicitly, and that's the thing, it's all implicit, like you don't even recognize that you're making these assumptions, which makes them even more insidious. So if you're feeling crappy one day and like you want, you just want your partner to come and give you a cuddly hug. But you don't say that. There's no apparent outside show of it. Then if your partner doesn't do that, you're like, he doesn't love me. He's a callous jerk.

Like, what is, and you come up with all in your in your head, right? And so what these high mind reading expectations has taught me is to notice this and to be like, Colin, I'm feeling really crappy. I need a hug. And I'm not saying it in the way. Like, gosh, why don't you just hug me all right? Yeah, exactly. And he's like, I didn't know. Right. And then, and then we talk about it. And then I'm like, so for me, if in doubt, cuddles and love. Like, I don't need like prom solving.

I just feel very tactile. And it's interesting because that then opened a conversation with us about

how he said, because I'd always thought a little bit like, he's kind of aloof. I know he loves

why I have, I have a thing a bit of a complex because like you, he's a really tall guy. And he also was a professional, um, professional soccer player. And he, so he was very sensitive about being

overbearing to people and with personal space. And he never wanted it because he's so classy and so,

like, you know, never wants women, especially if you're uncomfortable. So sometimes it can come even with his own life as, as, as, as, as like standoffish. And so that was so interesting. I never, like if I hadn't asked, I never would have guessed that because I'm, I'm not, I'm, I'm not

“like that. So it's really, really important because also when you share, when you say how you feel,”

like, it, it is a conversation, too. And then, then that you become more intimate because you know each other so well. And study after study has shown that feeling known for who you really are, like warts and all, is such a strong predictor of strong relationships. Really? Yeah, in fact, it's a supposed, okay. So suppose I have low self-esteem. And on the one hand, in one situation, my husband would, if he says, oh, you know, you're such a badass goddess. You like, you're so

together and confident and you're really great at what you do. Another version is, I know you struggle sometimes with self-esteem. And, and not even saying it's okay or anything, but just saying, what I am like, that is so much more strongly predictive of a strong relationship than when someone idealizes you because you want to be known. Like, isn't that so much more meaningful that even though if I had low self-esteem, he still loves me. He's like, he knows me. It's not like some fake,

I'm not an imposter in this relationship. Right. Yeah. That's interesting. I mean, do you feel like you were vulnerable in previous relations? No, that's the other thing is I, I was not really. I was not, um, we just kind of held your emotions to the chest. You weren't sharing what was on your

“heart of mind and like, yep, with sad things you were going through. And I think it was for me.”

So I think when people under share, there's often two things. One, the bigger issue, which is what I had, is lack of emotional awareness of oneself. Like, I did not know what I was feeling. I didn't understand myself, which sounds crazy because it's like, even the thought of needing to understand myself, like, I am me. I'm the cells in my body. Like, why don't we come with the built-in understanding, but we don't. So the core, that's the core issue is not understanding yourself. And then the second

is people who really do understand them. This is like my husband. He really understands himself, but he's very reserved. Um, but when someone just doesn't share, you don't know which is which. Um, so in my case, I tell you share, you know more. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah.

So when you just start to have a, I guess, an emotional breakthrough where you were like,

okay, I'm realizing that this is who I am. I'm being more aware of how this upbringing, which is, maybe we don't say we love you enough, or ever, or we don't talk about our feelings, or it's just tough enough, or don't cry, and you're just like, did you feel it? Yeah, get through it. Like, yeah, just, we're talking about you got this. Yeah. Keep going, or do better. Yeah. I can relate to that in some ways. But it's like, when did you have an emotional breakthrough, you said, oh,

again, it doesn't mean my childhood or my parents were better wrong. They just stand on the tools to teach me these things. I need to learn how to emotionally evolve. Yeah. So that I can have better intimacy relationships with my partner, with my children, with friends. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was a series of things. Divorce was amazing. I don't break you open. I mean, I don't think enough

“people get divorced. I think you should go through a process of onboarding your relationships.”

You're an alignment with the right values. That's the best. And it doesn't mean it's always

going to work out. That's the best. But doing that before saying, let's just get married. 100% the state of the world. Unfortunately, we are not psychologically enlightened enough. My self included to be making. So in that, I just think that people are in marriages that they should be in. But obviously, I'm biased. So like, I'm at the point now where I'm super grateful to my ex husband, because I never would have met Colin. But yeah, I mean, one of the divorce is a big

thing, which prompted a lot of self reflection. I had a great therapist who was really helpful. But it made me start to unpack why what it was, why I married this person, what went wrong. But then us do academics go through therapy secretly. But you're so smart. You know, but where are the ones that need it, right? You said it. Oh my god, therapy is the greatest thing ever. That and exercise.

were some, I think, like, there was, like, I had some really close friends who helped me in, in processing what I wanted. And then I also, the, the, the huge thing. I mean, this is all just all developing. It's all an emotional. It's all a journey. But I learned something that really, really helped me, really just occurred as I was writing the book because I, I, cut me off if I'm

rambling. Okay. So before I got married to my first husband, the month before I had second thoughts.

And I had second thoughts because I, I was like attracted to other men, like super attracted to other men. And I thought, I mean, I know, like, yeah, that people are attracted to people. But like, it was like, I wanted to act on it. And I'm like, this is not, this doesn't feel right. And so I called my mom. And I, I said, I expressed the concern. And that was courageous and oversharing that.

“Yeah, it was. But that's how lost I was. I'm like, I don't know what to do.”

That I, then I actually said this to my mom. Um, we're, we're pretty close. But, uh, this was a big deal. So I tell her that you want to act on, you know, being with other men before your marriage. I told her that. Yeah, I, right, which is kind of a big deal. Say to your mom. So she said, huh, you know, it's interesting because before I married your father, I had second thoughts too. Wow. And, um, and your mind, are you thinking your parents should

have stayed married? Well, so no. So then, I'm like, whoa. And then she said, but, you know, she said, uh, the reason I had second like you, I really enjoyed my flirtation. This is how she told me how she'd say. I really enjoyed my flirtations with other men. Um, but I'm so glad I married your father because look at how happy we are. Look at the lives we've built. And, and I really do believe they're truly happy. Um, I wouldn't be happy in that marriage, but they are very happy. And, and she said,

you know, they're like physical stuff. That, they're like really, I can only think of it in my

“word. So that's why I'm like, could you wouldn't say the way I would say like on a rip, you're”

um, the physical stuff. It wanes, um, what you, what you have, what we have is like the mature, long lasting love. And so then I was like, oh, yeah, I have the mature love. And so I went ahead with it. And I got married. And then, um, yeah, I spare you the details, but it was not a good marriage. We got divorced. And then once I, when did you know it weren't meant to be together in the marriage? Like right after I mean, no, I was, he was a joyous day. And like the first year, but then after the

first year, I, it was like this is like life settled. This is not, this is not it. But it would go in waves, right? Because it's hard. It's a hard thing. The divorce is the kind of thing that's crazy, painful in the moment. Like even if it's totally the right call, it's so hard to do because

“it's so painful even when it's right. So you should have kids together. But you, but that was also”

a thing where like I never, that was revealing to me that I want to. Right. Right. Okay. So then

I, okay. So then I'm divorced. And then I get this email few years after I'm divorced. My brother adds me to an email chain. And he says last check, check out what's at the bottom. And so it was between my parents because my brother does their finances. And at the very bottom, so they had added my brother on. And they'd forgotten that at the very bottom of the email, it's a convo between my mom and my dad about my mom go to her lover's house. I know. And I'm like, whoa, I'm like filled with

rage because they lied to you about it. Exactly. Because I immediately went back to that conversation. I'm like, you're like, you undershared. If you, it would have been better for you to have said nothing

than for you to have told me half the story. Like how dare. Like I would never have married that

man. If you had, if you had told me that the way you compensate is by this, which works for you. And like, I'm not mad. Like I'm not mad. Like it's, it's, it's consent. It's all fine. Like whatever, lots of different related. But I know for me, that is not, I, I crave like monogamy. And so I just felt

hold her now. Well, so then I'm writing the literally writing the book. And I'm like,

something betrayal on us. I thought you exactly. And I always felt, you know, when over the year,

like, so I held on to this for like 10 years. And so over the year, you saw when you did in the dress, right, I know, see like avoided. Um, but then like I was, the, the rage kind of went away. And then I got remarried and we still had it like the resentment. And I, but I kind of like, and so good stuff in your emotions. Yeah, yeah, too good. Working on it. And so then I'm literally writing the book. And the book, I wanted for chapter three a story of someone who like, there was undersharing

and they didn't realize at the moment. And then if they'd only known and like, it's the kind of store that's hard to find, right? And then I was, then in like, I did the middle of a night, right, so that I've stuffed down totally. It's always in the middle of the night. I woke up and I'm like, oh my God,

I have stuffed this down. I've never talked to my mother about this. She doesn't know that I know this.

And that I feel this way. And that I felt such, I didn't feel such intense rage anymore. But I'm like, how can I write this book? Like, I don't know if I'm putting the story in the book. That was a whole other series of conversations. But I need to address this myself. But I need to address this myself.

“Like this book is completely, if I believe what I'm writing, I got to do this. Yeah. So I did it.”

I had the convo with there. And I saw her face to face. Face to face. Wow. Big glass of scotch. Um, you know, you don't ask your emotions. I don't see, I still know the extreme situations. Like, I am human. Yeah, of course. Um, and so still we're really to really face it. You know, you can get that up. Took some creatine. Um, and, and I said, sat down face or do you say, hey, I have something on a tell you, let's meet.

Did you just meet and say, okay, now. Well, I think it was like, no, I was no, I don't think I gave her warning. Yeah. So you just met up. How do you, I didn't show ruminate. So I just was like, let's just do it. You met up. And then how did you relax? The kids were in bed. And they were not. We said, hey, listen, 10 years ago. I said, you know, I said to her, I did think about how I was going to open it. And I said,

“what do you remember that phone call before I married my first marriage? And she said,”

yes. And she like this, this knowing, but it wasn't, it wasn't defensive. It was like a knowing

warmth. She's like, yes. Oh. And I've always wondered whether I said the right thing. Oh, my God.

And I was like, well, like, wow. And then she, you know, I told her how I felt. And then she's like, wow. And she said, you know, I can totally appreciate that. But at the time, I actually did not think I was omitting anything. And this is part of the point. So often, the thought of sharing something doesn't even occur to us. She didn't even think of it was relevant. Right? Like, like, I actually know that like, oh, yeah, you can get married to have a lover later life. We

are giving her a lot of benefit to the doubt. But, but I, it was just like so curative to talk to her about it and to tell her how I felt. And then I realized like, you know, but like, Mom, what were you supposed to do? It's the month before your, my wedding. Like, you were in a tricky situation, too. And like, so, and then I realized it's as much my own, like, well, I'm the one that didn't honor what I really want in a mate. Like, you know, so I can't, yeah, it's not all her fault.

Yeah. Yeah. One thing that she could have said would have changed everything. Yeah. But then, like, it's not I've heard of make the decision. Right. Right. You've got to make the decision. You're 28 also. It's not like you're 17. Exactly. I'm not. I do. Yeah. Yeah. She can't put it on her. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Even if she said, you know, we have a great relationship. And we have some fun in the side. You probably still got married. I know. I say it wouldn't have, but I probably would have

came in as myself because it's like the, it's so hard to call it off then, right? So yeah. So I'm curious, and what happens to your self respect or anyone's self respect when we don't express our truth to someone else when we don't. Oh, I love that. Because you didn't share for a decade. Yeah. How you felt. Yeah. I love that. What happened to your self respect? Yeah. In that

“10 year season. Yeah. Yeah. Of stuffing the emotion. Right. I mean, I think that”

the stuffing of the emotion, right. It doesn't. It's not honoring yourself. It's in disservice to yourself. It's this theme of like not like it's like avoiding yourself and not coming to terms with tricky things. And it's hard coming to terms with tricky things. But on the other ends, like I had that like Guinness Book of World Records, most awkward conversation with my mom, and like we are closer than ever. Like we had this amazing convo after that made like during

didn't feel alone. And for example, we talked about love and what she thinks love isn't what I like it was fascinating. And and I said, you know, mom, I when I had all of our first born, when they put him on my chest, I didn't feel like Google. Greg, I love towards him. I felt duty and responsibility. And I felt curiosity. Like, this is an alien human that just came out. Like

it was very cognitive. But I've always felt I had always felt a little ashamed of that because I'm

like so many moms are like the a different way. They're like, oh my god, my knee to nurture, which is great. But I didn't feel that way. And she said, I felt the same way. I didn't, you know, it came after. Once I'm now, I'm like super Google Gaga, mom, I kiss their feet. I kiss their bombs. I'm obsessed. But it came after for me. And so it was just a wonderful conversation of and that's what happens when you open up. You're less alone. But on the self respect issue, I also think that

when you say hard things to other people. So for example, a great, a great case here would be giving difficult feedback to someone, right? Yes. As an entrepreneur, as like you often have to give difficult feedback to people I would imagine. Is it important to give difficult feedback to people in your life? Yes, 100%. It's a gift. It's a gift. Because what are people can't receive? Right. Well, that's where being a good feedback giver. Even if you're given, you're

like walking in your tippy toes, you're like, you know, and you say five compliments first. But

this one thing. Right. And they're just like heartbroken. Like, you could still try to give it the best way, calm us way, empowering them, lifting them up, sandwich one little note of like what they need. And then it's something else. And still people may not be able to receive it. True. I guess I'm the big believer in the skill of difficult delivering feedback. Sure, there are people that are so defensive and so insecure and so in a hard place in life that they just can't take it.

But that's also part of the feedback giver's role is like, is this the right time for this person?

“And you have to be patient. Yes. And if you wait to never, it's too late. No, no, I know. It's great.”

It could be a month later or like, oh, it's way too a better time than not be a better time. If you first share, and get them to share. Right. And I think that so some of the ways what you said about respect, I think is really wonderful because I think that's a great way to frame difficult feedback. I know we've heard of this feedback sandwich. You said it. I've actually done research on the feedback sandwich because I viewed it with contempt because I'm

like this is BS like the sandwich just because by the time you get to the middle, if you put compliments everywhere, people are going to forget. So I actually with my bestie, Alison Brooks and a colleague, we did studies on this where we are we are varying the order of feedback to see if the sandwich because we were it was like a viewed it with contempt or like screw the sandwich. So what is the best way to give feedback based on your research? The sandwich works. Really. We were like

“tail between our legs. The most important thing, it's the end doesn't matter. The end actually”

positive at the end isn't so important. It's starting with the positive. But that can mean a lot of things. I love the respect because you can say, look, I respect you. I owe it to you. You deserve the honest truth here, right? Like that's a great way because I respect you. I don't think you continue a feedback. I'm being that I don't care. I'm not being kind. Kindness is one of the see you grow, one of the see you. 100%. And I am so I'm the official bad guy at HBS because I know I don't look

like a bad guy. I don't think so. But so I am the chair of the academic performance committee. So whenever MBAs get enough bad grades for whatever reason, they come before my committee and they have to kind of make an appeal to you. A lot of been in your office constantly. Well first off, I would have never gotten it to Harvard, but I would have been in your office constantly. And so I have evolved in the way I handle these meetings because so the people they're upset,

“they're like, why did I, why am I having to leave or why am I having to take X-Rose or whatever?”

And my initial approach in these meetings, they ask a question and I answer it and I'm like, here's why, but that's such a terrible, like it puts it on a like defend and here's why you

need. And now and it never went over well. And now what I do is the first 20 minutes of the meeting,

I don't say anything. I let them talk. And if they try to ask me why I just ask them back, like, they need to talk. They need to tell me how they feel. They don't know they need to do this, but they need to be heard. So I hear them. And then after I've heard them, I also learn more about them. And I learn more about how I may actually be able to help them. And then it's super constructive because we get into like what we can actually do. And so I think that sometimes when

we give difficult feedback, we think we need to be more active. But like just just listening,

already know what they're going to say, the action of them telling you is incredibly important. So interesting because I essentially have one, I don't know if it's rule, but before me and my wife got in a committed relationship as we're dating, not not marriage, but when we're kind of dating, I said, listen, I'm willing to, you know, I'm willing to commit and go all in. It was like a big decision to like get in another relationship after I'd had had made relationships that were

challenging. I done a lot of healing work. And I was like, listen, I'm willing to commit and go all in with the intention of getting married in the future with the intention that we have in kids in the future creating a family, not just date to date, but I was like, okay, we're starting to learn each other's values. I'm understanding your values, these are my values. This is what I want from my future. So it's with that context in mind. Okay, let's do this, knowing that

that is our intention, not just, we like each other, let's date to date. Right.

I said I have one condition. Only one. I said, I will never get mad at you for anything.

Never get mad at you. If you do, if you do whatever you're going to do, you're active, you are. I feel like I know you enough now at the time that we've been dating for a while ago. I won't get mad. I might get frustrated or like annoyed, but I'm not going to get mad at you. I'm not going to yell at you. I'm never going to raise my voice because I'm going to choose to accept you for who you are. I may not like things you do, but I'm going to choose to accept

you and create agreements around these things. And I only have one condition. The condition is you

“cannot get mad at me. If you're upset with me about something, you have to bring me first,”

come to me and talk about these one thing you appreciate about me first. Then we can talk all day long about something that's bothering you. If something is upsetting you or bothering you that you want to talk about, I will listen to you for hours. I will speak to you and disarm it, but you just have to, because my whole life is going to be committed to finding ways to improve your life. And if you come to me by one thing that you're upset about, and you don't just acknowledge

at least the good I've been doing for the last three months, and how I continue to add value, how I show up, and how I'm present, how I listen, and how I take us out and do experiences and provide it. If you just come to me with the one thing that's bothering you, and you don't acknowledge at least one big thing. I'm going to be up, then I'm going to be upset. That's the only time I'm going to angry. And I said, can we agree on this? What did she say? She said, she didn't understand

in their first, because it's like, what if I just went and upset about something, I go, that doesn't

“work for me. And if that's the case, then I'm not the right guy for you. If all you have to do,”

it should say, I really appreciate this. And there's something that's been on my heart that I'm going to talk about. I said, maybe I messed up because I'm having that request, but it's going to make me a better performance. It's going to make me a better part. Yeah. Because you have to understand in my mind all day, I'm thinking about how to make your life better. And I'm acting in accordance and I'm committing my life to you. Yeah. I'm eliminating every other option in the world to focus on

you and to create a life that we envision together. Yeah. And all I ask my return is you don't kidding, angry upset or ease your voice of me. Just talk to me. You can be upset. Right. But just tell me one thing you appreciate first, so that I feel seen for the constant effort that I'm putting. Right. Right. Versus just, I don't like you do this. I don't like you do this. Why you do this? Like, no, it doesn't work for me. Right. If you need to do that, find another guy.

Yeah. And all the best. Yeah. Yeah. I'll be single. And that's okay. Yeah. You know, it doesn't mean

“it's right or wrong. It was my request. Yeah. Totally. And I think it's because I had it and most of”

my previous relationships and all of them, but most of them, I felt like under attack constantly for who I was and under, under appreciated. I want to appreciate it. But it's more like just under attack. You know, it's like, why are you doing this? Or why is that? Or why is this? I didn't feel understood. And then there for there was a frustration. Maybe it was a mind reading expectation wherever it is. Or they wanted me to be a different person. They expected me once we were together,

not going to be the first as opposed to this is why I am except. Or don't be with me. And that's okay. Yeah. And I like the courage to get out of those relationships. Yeah. That's a charge. I changed and they didn't do anything. You weren't you then. I wasn't happy and they still weren't happy. Yeah.

So no matter how much I change, they still weren't happy. I was like, I'm never going to change for you.

Right. That sounds harsh. That's hard. But it's real. But I'm going to improve them. Well, I'm going to be constantly evolving. I'm going to constantly healing. You will change because we all change. Yeah. But I'm not going to change your specifications. Yeah. Yeah. So except me. I will fully accept you. Yeah. If something bothers me, I'll just talk to you about it. So I'm curious. Did your wife have any conditions? No. I mean besides like if we're going to be exclusively dating, the intention is

we're going to be getting married. Yeah. And we're we're going to kids. We're older for the eight

it wasn't more like conditions was more like agreements. Yeah. And I think I was so clear. We also

“started the relationship in therapy. I said, I'm not getting a community relationship unless we start”

in there. Love it. She was like, I'm in. Amazing. So for me, I was like, I don't want to go two

years and then it's like we're exhausted or it doesn't work out or the first year is good. And then I'm a huge fan of like proactive therapy. Everybody can use therapy. Once you're having problems, it's like too late. No, start with not get all the problems all the way, but like start with healing individually and creating agreements together to create less issues in the future. Doesn't mean we don't have things we need to overcome to get. Right. Right. But I feel like we have this

ability to communicate based on our values and our vision and our lifestyle and understand each other.

So anyways, I got off here. Beautiful. I'm curious. When a person

what happens to a person inside of them when they decide not to share what's really going on, they hide back their feelings, like you held back your feelings for 10 years to your mom. I know. If you don't really say how you feel to your partner, what is happening inside of them when those things start to pile up? And I know you're like this. Demonstration, maybe you can

“share. Yeah. Sure. Well, okay. So the first, I think if we were to unpack unpack this,”

the big picture plate of the book is I would like to make visible something that is usually invisible to that. What's that? And that's the dozens, hundreds, thousands of disclosure decisions we make every single day. What's the disclosure decision? What does that mean? Right. So I'm going to walk you through day in the life of disclosure decision-making. Okay. And sometimes we decide to reveal a thing to say the thing, but oftentimes we don't.

So let's my point, though, that we'll get to, spoiler alert, is that even not saying, even the things we don't say are still a choice. Yeah. Okay. So what we're going to do is we're going to go day in the life. Let me go with my Sharpie, like a Sharpie, show your piece. I'd like a Canadian. Okay. And one whole basket. Okay. Here's a day in the life. You wake up in the morning and alarm goes on. You roll over to your spouse. You say,

we'll start off cuddly and nice. I love you, dear. So you say that, put that in that one. Okay. And then, and then, you're like, oh, I feel like I slept so badly. You just think it. You don't say it. You don't say it. There's no thing you don't say, sure. Okay. You don't want to be whiny. You're a bus killer. I'm day one. Okay. Oh, yeah, hold them both. Okay. Perfect. All right. So then, you go to the, you get, you both get up,

because your spouse, you're in the bathroom. You look at yourself in the mirror and you say, you kind of feel a little disappointed, because you think, I look, okay. That's on said. Okay. And then, you say, you think to yourself, I really, I feel older than I thought I would at this age. You think it. You think it. Okay. Brush your teeth. You go down. Go down the kitchen. Kids are mulling about how these making lunch for the kids. How he says, what should I give the kids for

snack? And you say, just, just pick something. Just pick something. There. Yeah. It's another decision for Mama. Sure. Sure. Sure. Um, then you, you know, he's like, what? I'm just trying to make lunch. What are you talking about? What you didn't say is, um, I am on edge today because I haven't slept. I'm really nervous about it. My work today. I may be, okay. So a lot of stuff. Unset. Unset. Yeah.

“I may be because of this. I may be a little snappy. It's not you. Right. That's why I'm snapping.”

It's not really about the. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and and I could use a hug. Right. So you don't say any of that. You just, you're just making them understand. Yeah. And now he's now he's pissed because he's like, look at this. She's so much such a great shit head. Like I'm doing this. She could just answer

a question. And it's never about that the, the, the, the, the stupid snack, right? It's these things.

Okay. So then I'm digressing. Okay. So then you, you get in the car. You drive your kids. You

to the doctor's office. And you what you think is, whoa, 70 year old dad driving has some dementia

issues possibly shouldn't be driving. I'm worried about him. Yeah. Yeah. What you say is, hey, let's, uh, let's talk later when when you're on the car. Mm-hmm. Dad. So you said that. Yeah. Yeah. So you said that. So then you, you get to work. Your assistant says, hey, how you do it. And you say great. What you don't say is, I'm overwhelmed. I'm stressed. Yeah. I'm overwhelmed. I'm stressed. So on and on and on the day goes, right? You're nodding up. And so you can see that

I could go on and on. I won't. But like, he don't need statistics to know that there was a heck of a lot more going into the unsaid. Yes. Then into the said. And we could even like be huge nerds and look at what these are and a lot of them are feelings, right? A lot of the things that we don't share are feelings. And the thing is like this day, this is, this is a pretty banal day. It's not an unusual day. And yet there's so many more things that go unsaid that could be said.

I'm not saying that all of these should go in there, not by any means. There's good reasons why we don't share. We, we, we, we, we are busy. We're being polite. We may be being strategic. There's

lots of these good reasons to not share. But the problem is when we go through life, we default to

we don't even think about sharing, right? Those, I feel old. Like, you, we don't think of sharing that to your spouse. And imagine if you did, they may say, I do too. But, you know, what our children, I'd like to look at our children, part of being old is enjoying our children. And, you know, you could, you could, you can talk to, you then you can, you feel less alone. If you tell your boss that after your boss compliments you after a big, a big presentation that you were anxious about,

you say, great, thanks to the compliment. What you don't say is, you know, I was actually feeling pretty anxious before. And I'm really proud of how I did that. And that was so enjoyable. I'd love more opportunities. And then they understand, then it's like career success, right? Like,

you can see how exuberant I love about this concept. Like, of course there are times like

the assistant, you're not going to dump to your system that you're overwhelmed. You don't know what

“prioritize, of course not. But, um, it's a real problem, I think, that we don't even consider”

the possibility of sharing more. This is their flip side to this, where people have tried to over share and maybe hurt them by they, they really were vulnerable. I know as, of course, man growing, I remember once I'm in a relationship, I shared how it's feeling and my girlfriend said, you look weak to me. She said, I know, I know I'm not a problem. She's like, I know not supposed to think this. Oh, good for her. Well, it's great. She shared not then. I take it back, because I mean,

it's like, but she was like, she couldn't receive the emotions that I had. It's not like I was like wallowing on the ground emotion, because like being emotional is having a moment, you know, showing some emotion, and she's just like, I know I'm supposed to. Yeah. Like, be okay with this, but I'm not. Yeah. I think a lot of men have experienced that, where they have tried to be vulnerable. Yeah. They've tried to maybe even cried in front of their girlfriend at one point.

Whatever reason, they felt a little shift. They felt the change. They felt the energetic,

“a communicational change. It was like, huh, do I really feel safe around this person?”

This man, if he's weak, even if it's just for a moment, can I trust him? So when is oversharing actually hurt you? Yeah. When is it hurt you with your boss? We just say, they're sexually homed feeling. I'm really insecure and scared and nervous. And then he's like, well, can I trust you? Right. For sure. And do I respect you? In that example, there's a key distinction. The example I was giving was after the talk, right? You do not want to

say this to your boss, someone who has higher status than you before the talk. You do not want to say, you're not giving the talk. You're not going to say, I can do this. Right. And in fact, sometimes, if the boss came in for the talk was like, how are you feeling? You'd say like, great. I'm pumped. I'm excited. Sometimes it's almost like your line. Well, so it's what you choose to share because anxiety and excitement are together. It's selective, right? And we're

allowed to be selective. We should be selective. We're not. We shouldn't say everything on our

“mind. And in fact, if you say your anxious, then you can get, can cause you to be more anxious, right?”

Like, saying is believing is right? So why don't I'm hearing you say them revealing and the underrated power of oversharing is all based on context. Oh, contact is so important. Yeah. And in fact, the people that I think are the best at doing this at a knowing the line between TMI and TLI, which is constantly moving are people who have what I call a lot of disclosure flexibility.

guardedness because different situations call for entirely different things. I would also say in your

“example, I mean, that there was so many thought bubbles as you were talking about that. It was a really”

rich one. But sometimes the answer to oversharing or feeling like you overshared is actually to ask questions and share more, right? To say, oh, that makes me feel really hurt that you reacted

that way because to me, masculinity is being confident with all of the emotions I will always protect

you, right? Like, or saying, like, tell me more, what is your, what makes you feel insecure? Like, right? So it, it prod should prompt more understanding. And maybe the answers won't be good, maybe you, and then that's informative too because you've learned that you're not on the same page in this person. Yeah, that was the right thing for anybody. But it was just like, I know a lot of man, I wrote a book about, you know, called the mask of masculinity. Eight years ago, I guess it was

“known and it was about unpacking my own kind of amazing inability to be vulnerable because I felt”

like I had to fit in in society around men, friend group with men, around intimacy and relations,

women around how I supposed to be as the youngest son, whatever might be. So it was like the

mask that I wore to protect myself emotionally, psychologically in the world and the mask that men have worn to try to fit in and belong. Women have had to wear masks as well. Different, different stuff. And, and, and one of the studies that really struck me as I was writing the book as a boy mom is a study where with preschoolers, they measured their galvanic skin response. So that's how sweaty your palms are, which is a measure of how anxious you feel. And they also videotape

their faces. How much they expressed, how much they revealed about what they were feeling. As the

“children were watching like scary movies. And what they found was that the people who the children”

who expressed more were physiologically calmer. So they weren't their palms weren't as sweaty. So expression literally was was calming for them, bottling up on the other side, which you had touched on earlier. It's extremely bad for our well-being in many different ways. It's really stressful.

And then the kicker for me was that by the age of like second grade, the boys had became less

expressive over time because they they they learned that keeping it in being still like that's that's the masculine right? It's it's so I'm curious what for you this mask that you felt you had did you have certain turning points of like that really really were step functions in the mask going away? And taking them off? Yeah, I mean, right around 13 years ago, 29 to 30 years old I had accomplished what I thought I was supposed to accomplish in my 20s by building a business

and making millions of dollars and you know having attractive girlfriends and having status and having followers and all these things. But I felt more empty, more alone, more unsure and insecure of myself. But others thought I was like figuring it out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I had these kind of like three different breakdowns and relationships that you know business partnership or girlfriend that was kind of like often on an emotional and breakup and get back together. And then a

friendship there was like all happening with the same season like a few months. All these relationships were broken breaking down. And I was originally like what is wrong with each one of these people but I was the common denominator. So I had a moment to reflect you know it's just like oh man there's something wrong with me because I'm at the roots on the common denominator of all these broken relationships. I can't point the finger at everyone something is happening where I don't have the emotional

skills right on the tools, on not creating boundaries or I'm out of a line it was something and that became you know a journey of going through is much emotional intelligence training workshops, therapies coaching for the last 13 years with possible. Yeah. And that's when I launched the show. Yeah. I launched the show 13 years ago because I was like okay I have accomplished success but I don't have greatness in my life like I've accomplished things but I don't feel great. I don't

feel good. So what's wrong with me? Yeah. Let me go ask the experts. Let me humble myself. Yeah. And stop being a cocky 20 something you're all thinking I've got to figure it out. Yeah. And let me humble myself and bring in the true leaders of the world people with wisdom experience research like yourself and say teach me and through learning let me share with others and try

finance, health, or they should whatever might be. So last 13 years has been a dynamic of me being

the you know the guinea pig of struggle and saying all right I'm going to try to be the best person of myself that I can be. I'm going to try to draw all my wisest version of my future self to me now. And being like a lifelong learn I think is a really healthy mindset right constantly. Yeah. And even at 40, I'll be 43 in a couple months. And even though I feel like man I have a ton of wisdom from the last 13 years or my whole life so far but it's like man I've so much more

deeper that I can go the where I can impact people in a greater capacity, individually group settings, mass audience settings. There's so much more that I can uncover within myself and yet I can

keep it extremely simple at the same time. I don't have to like keep going deeper and deeper always.

It's like I can integrate the wisdom and then just impact and serve. Yeah, serve my dreams and my highest calling and serve the people around me the best of my ability. Yeah. And it doesn't mean I'm always the perfect and I'll fall from grace and I'll fall back into old childhood patterns at times. Yeah, but you'll recognize. Notice seeing it catching it and replacing it with the

“wisest version of myself. And I think that's what doing this show and reading books and doing interviews”

continually reminds me of the things I already know. Usually I don't learn all these like new things that I've never heard of. It's more like oh this research is backing what I know. So let me go farther into this, you know. So that's a lot of what it is. But I think the idea of it's a couple of things that I'm hearing from you so far that could benefit people. One, if you're expecting someone to know what you're thinking or feeling just because you're feeling

it, you're going to have a bad or challenging relationship and you're going to be frustrating in that relationship if you're expecting someone to read your mind. Even if you show them a little of like disgust in your the moment of like I've got some frustration in my life they should just know. That is like and one of the things that my wife Martha has done really well she knows that I can't be a mind reader and I'm like if something is all going on tell me right away don't wait

to later in the day don't wait till midnight or in the middle of the bed about to sleep like tell me earlier. Yeah being a good illiciter is so important too. Yeah. Yeah. Let me serve you better. You know what I mean? Just communicate a little bit and I can serve you higher. Yeah. But if we're ready to want to like let something dump something on me. Yeah. When I am not have the brain function it's going to be exhausting for both of us. Yeah. So trying to be a mind reader is an impossible

job so communicate more even just communicate a little bit. Yeah. We'll go a long way. And this power of oversharing with context. Yes. Knowing context is here. Who you're speaking to right

“the timing is is what I'm hearing is also important. And I think there's also things that we”

tend to undershare and I would say the number one thing we tend to undershare are feelings. And for lots of reasons but if I to try to like people who are skeptical the feelings feelings like I'm as skeptical I was born skeptical. So there's been studies of that have looked at what people were regret in life. And one of the studies was led by a colleague of mine at Cornell Tom Gillivitch who's as brilliant as he is warm. And he discovered he looked at what are the

things that people were regret in life. Do they regret the things they do? Or do they regret the things they did not do? And it turns out that it's something like 76% of regrets on average are things you didn't do. Really? And so, unsaid undersharing things you didn't do. And then, okay, so clincher on top of that. Then there's I encountered this a book by a palliative

“carer nurse by the name of Ronnie Ware. She wrote a book. That's how you're on the show. Oh my gosh,”

a five or five regards. Yes. Okay. So four out of five of them are things you didn't do. Number three, I wish I had shared my feelings more. Right? Like if that doesn't convince you and you can think about it. Like so I was just talking to the my dear hairstylist and she she we were talking about this. She said, you know, we had a PTA meeting which is like, good, pretty functional. And I decided because I read your book, I decided I was going to say it wasn't going very well this

meeting. And so I decided to share my feelings. I decided to say I feel frustrated. And she said

it was a complete game changer. And one of the read and suddenly people were like, I feel frustrated

too. And how do we so they it was relatable. Everyone was feeling the same thing or variants of it.

but show a feeling, showing feelings is so much more compelling. You become more persuasive when you do something with feeling, when you show the feeling. And one example, this was fairly

early on when I was dating my husband, my second, I mean, now has been and we were at this beautiful

resort in the Caribbean. And there was I'm a terrible sleeper. I hate that, but I'm just a really, really bad sleeper. And it was, you know, the first night in paradise and it was like, I didn't sleep at all, there was like a party above us. It was hell. Well, for dinner, thanks. It was not good. And so then the next morning, so he's a little not confrontational. I can be confrontational when I care a lot. And so I'm like, this is this is not right. I, the money we paid. So I go to

the front desk and I start saying, and then I couldn't contain my feelings. So I, they were like, no, no, nothing we could do. And then I started crying, not strategically because I really like, I was trying to knock cry. But then that they shifted entirely. And they put us in the most beautiful ocean, like, on the water, ocean cottage, like, I know, it feels like I wasn't trying to be an idiotic, but the lesson to me was like, I don't need to be so ashamed of crying, like crying

in the right time in place. It can be a high risk maneuver. But it also is really compelling information. Because you really care. Right. It's not just real like frustrated and upset. Yeah. It's like you really, it's a true signal, right? It's, it's easy to just complain. But this is a costly signal. So we hear people complain all the time, probably. Right. Yeah. Right. And they're like, oh, no, she really needs it. So, but yeah. So sharing your feelings is something that we, we chronically

undershare. Yeah. Yeah. And there's a price to not sharing a true feeling. Exactly. There are

missed opportunities. There's friendships that never blossom. There's romances that never spark. There's

colleagues that never quite trust you. What's one question you can ask your intimate partner that would get them to share what they truly feel if they've been blocking or hiding those

“emotions for a long time. That's a great question. I think what I would do, I mean, there's”

lots of things one could do, but there is a very powerful human tendency. I might even say instinct. I don't use that term lightly, but it, you can actually very make a very quite compelling evolutionary case to this. There's an instinct to reciprocate. And so if you, if your partner's more reserved, like my husband, he's a recovering undershare. But I'm an overshare. I've had my moments of like, so we balance each other out. But reciprocity. So if you, if you really, instead of like,

trying to get the right question, if you share something proactively, you say, I feel, you know, the day we got married, I felt so happy, but I also felt, you know, uncertain about the future and what our family life and where we live, like if you share something vulnerable, then it's so natural, especially when you're in a loving relationship reciprocation is like it, it feels weird not to do it. And so that's, that's, instead of trying to get the perfect

question, that's something I might try. Lead with vulnerability, lead with sharing, lead with something,

that's powerful. Well, I want people to check out your book. It's called revealing the

“underrated power of oversharing. And again, I just really believe like relationships is the key to”

having a happy life and how for relationships come from the ability to communicate how you feel, obviously in the right context and doesn't mean you cry all day long, if you're sad, but it's like learning how to communicate and connect it and learning how to receive someone's oversharing is what where the fruit of life is because it's all about relationships. And if you struggle in relationships, you're going to struggle in your life. And this is going to allow you to create

more tools to having a powerful relationship. So the book's called revealing the underrated power of oversharing and people can check your website out, profitlesslyjohn.com or the same on Instagram and LinkedIn and social media, profitlessly john over there as well. I've got a couple of final questions for you. Lightning round. This is called the three truths. So a hypothetical scenario, imagine you get to live as long as you want and you get to do all the work that you love

and all the research you love and you get to have the experiences you imagine with your family and

“your kids and all these different things. But for whatever reason on your last day, you have to take”

all of your work with you. And we don't have access to your books, your interviews, your content anymore. But you get to leave behind one final message. And I call it the three truths. What would be those three things, those three messages, three truths you would leave behind from all the

TMI, which we should not because the bigger problem is TLI to little information. The second

“is that silence is a choice. And once you start thinking about silence as a choice, it will”

really open up your space because you will realize how much you can share because you'll realize how much you leave unsaid. And third, I would say revealing wisely is a skill and it's a skill that we can all get better at. And like any skill it requires practice and iteration. So I would

encourage people to try to stretch themselves a little bit more. And that's also on a meta-level

what I'm doing in the book. How can you write a book about revealing and not reveal? So hopefully

“I got it mostly right. But you have to forgive yourself if you, that's part of learning and”

experimentation. Yeah, it's an ongoing dance. That's cool. Well, that's it. I appreciate an analogy for one revealing during this because I think academics can sometimes hold back and we get

our own research in science and it's not going into non-personal life as well. So I'll really

nod you for kind of revealing that about your mom and kind of having this like underlying resentment for a decade plus. But then this work making you face it and it's created a stronger relationship with your mom and sounds like. For sure. And so I nod you for doing the healing work for yourself while you're trying to create research and academic. And raise two crazy boys. Exactly. But that's it's hard to do if you're recovering non-share. Yeah. I also realize as I was writing it

that I call myself an overshare, but then I thought it's more performative oversharing. Like I like telling self-deprecating funny stories about myself. But when it really comes to sharing deep feelings. Do you? Do you? Yeah. Well, we keep working on it. Right. I'm a lifelong

“education case. Final question, Leslie. What's your definition of greatness?”

It's feeling so comfortable in your own skin and knowing yourself so much that you can get the things in life that you care about and that your loved ones care about. There you go. That's it. Thanks for being here. Thank you so much. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important

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you if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.