#331 Scott Payne - FBI Undercover Agent Reveals the Most Disturbing Cases of His Career

Then years go by, and you're still dealing with fees, minimum balances over drafts,

“and all the little charges that make you wonder why your own bank is nickel and diamond you.”

That's where Chime comes in. Chime is changing the way people bank, they're not like traditional old banks who charge fees and gatekeep, perks and rewards. Chime offers the most rewarding, fee-free banking, all with no overdraft fees, no monthly fees, and no minimum balance fees. You get 5% cash back on Chime card, in a category of your choice, like gas or groceries, all while building credit through regular

everyday spending, with no credit check. You can also grow your money faster with a savings rate

that's nine times the national average. And if you're ever in a pinch, spot me, let you overdraft up to $200 fee-free. Join the millions who are already banking fee-free with America's number one choice for banking, head to chime.com/sRS, that's chime.com/sRS. Sign up now, it only takes a few minutes. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services in Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners, qualifying direct deposits required,

go to chime.com/disclosures for details. If you've listened to this show for a while,

you know I'm a big believer in functional mushrooms and adaptogens. So mud water made sense to me

right away because it gives you that morning ritual without the full caffeine hit. There are original blend is made with cacao, chime, turmeric, and functional mushrooms. It's got about one seventh the caffeine of coffee. So you get focus and energy without feeling jittery or dealing with that crash later. And what I like about the starter kit is it actually

“gives you everything you need to start the routine. You get a full size 10 of your chosen blend,”

plus a rechargeable frother, free gifts, and free shipping. The OG blend is where a lot of people start because it has that chye and chocolate flavor, but they also have coffee, matcha, and turmeric blends if you want something different. For me, mud water is just a cleaner way to start the morning. It feels steady. It tastes good and it fits right into the kind of routine I already want to be building. Ready to make the switch to cleaner energy? Go to mudwater.com/SRS and grab the starter kit.

Use code SRS and you'll get 43% off. The frother alone is worth it. That's right. Up to 43% off with code SRS and MUDWTR.com. After your purchase, the last how you found them. Please show your support and let them know we sent you. Thanks, man. I'm too. Let me start y'all with an introduction here. Alright. Here we go. Scott Paine, your retired FBI undercover agent who spent more than two decades infiltrating drug traffickers, outlaw motorcycle clubs, human traffickers, and violent

extremist organizations. Over the course of your FBI career, you led dozens of undercover operations as the primary agent when most agents, at the time, might lead only a handful. Last year, you became a New York Times best selling author with a release of your memoir, code name, pale horse. Welcome to the show. Thanks, man. My pleasure. So a couple things have not

“out here real quick. Everybody gets a gift. Nice. Oh, there's honestly gummy bears. Perfect. Excellent.”

Candy, there's no funny business. I'm a bunch of children and you know, other shit that's a yellow. What is it yellow? It's probably in there. But, uh, and then we got to paint your on account. They've been with me since the beginning when I started this thing in my attic and it was just me and my wife that we couldn't make any damn money. Yeah. And they've been here with us ever since then all the way up to now. So they're the reason I get to sit down with you today. Excellent.

And so one of the things I do is I offer them the opportunity to ask every single guest a question. So here we go. This is from Ron Sorrentino. Excuse me. Scott, working undercover and dealing with the world's, excuse me, Scott, working undercover and dealing with the worst of the worst. The world has to offer was there a time when you wanted to stop or you felt you were into deep? Hmm. I don't

it's tough to realize when it's time to pull out. You know, it's like pull chocks and say, hey,

“we've got everything we need. This is too dangerous. Whatever. Um, but uh, yeah, he said worst of the”

worst and what was he asking? He said, was there a time when you wanted to stop or you felt you were into deep? Okay. Uh, as far as a time I wanted to stop, um, sometimes my, we'll probably talk about it. But my, uh, my body told me it was time to stop. I didn't want to stop mentally. My body said you're done. Um, and some of the, like anything to do with the child stuff, the, the, the, yeah, the pedophiles and stuff and picking those, uh, yeah, I want them out. I can, like, I've trained agents. I've been

there training agent and they were working that stuff as an undercover coordinator. I might be helping and, and, and, and helping them on the covert side. But as far as working that violation and looking at that stuff daily by camp. Yeah. Yeah. That's not me. Now, I've been hired. I've been undercover and a pedophile hired me to kill the kid. He molested. Um, you know, what? Yeah. I was happy to do that one. I'm like, yeah, let's get you buddy. I'm going to go to jail. He hired you to kill the kid he molested.

Yeah. It's actually in the bad plan as far as murder for hires gives it up in a part of, um, he knew he was going to be bad in prison. So while he was in jail in San Antonio, Texas, he solicited, uh, a gang member to help him find somebody that could murder this kid. Well, maybe the general public doesn't know it, but in jail, that's all sharks. And they're looking for blood in the water. What I mean by that is, if you can get credit for something and shorten your

time, so as you get that information, you're on the phone calling your lawyers and how I got

“something good. And that's how we kind of found out. But yeah, I went in and met the guy only did”

two meetings, but I'm adding shedding a picture of the kid, make sure it was one. And, uh, he's a greedy. He actually, I kind of giggled because it caught me off guard. But, uh, he, when we're talking about murdering the kid, he, uh, he said, yeah, and I'd like you to kill the rest of his family, too, and they're like, you know, Wisconsin. And I'm like, well, I think, let's, let's still one at a time. But I'm out of frame to travel, you know, let's talk about money and stuff. But,

yeah, what does something like that go for? Oh, it's nothing, it's not like TV. I mean, I've known some people, for me, to see somebody get $100,000 to murder somebody, that's, that was more TV stuff. I've known a couple who've done that half a looping stuff, maybe like a cartel evidence or something,

but I never saw it. Mine were, two grand, ten grand bucks. You know, that's the $2,000.

Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to be like, um, there'll be like, hey, uh, you murder him as a $100,000 insurance policy. When we get that $100,000, we'll give you $12, you know, or something like that, whatever you come up with. But of course, I'm like, you, you won't need to get a kill somebody, based on your word that you're going to give me money after you get the settlement. No, you got to give something up front, so. Holy shit. I never thought it would be that cheap.

Yeah. Especially here are the states. Yeah. Wow. Damn. That's fucking crazy. But a lot of McCrimmels for a reason. Yeah. You know, they're not there. Yeah. Yeah. So, sometimes it's not the smartest person here. But good point. You know, I was going to kill somebody, but too. I mean, I don't know.

“Weird. Weird. Follow on question. Okay. What was your everyday carry?”

Uh, the Bureau would only let you carry the baby glove. I don't know. Yeah. The use to, and the FBI, they had a personally own weapon program. And as the years went on, the, if you had a personally own weapon, it still has to go to Quantico. The final arms people there have to go through it. You guys send it in with four mags. They make sure they tested just like the testing FBI weapon. So, it has to pass that. We'll get to a point where there's

so many different weapons out there. All the guys at the firearms unit that are that are tinkering with it. They're like, I don't want to work on this gun that's, so they's disneared it down to the baby

glove. But me, what I carry now, my everyday carry is, well, first of all, in the Bureau, my everyday

carry was a clock 22 in the beginning, and then it was the clock 17. But now, my ADC is a, uh, Cig P365 XL. Oh, no, shit. Yeah, right on. Yeah. I did like the way, because I got bigger hands. I did like the way the, uh, the Springfield XDS felt, but I mean, it's like voodoo. I put, I put the band. I mean, I understand it, but I'll put the P365 XL with 17 rounds and one in the chamber

Oh, yeah. That's, I don't get it. How long you've been carrying that same?

Uh, since before I retired. Right on. Yes, I retired five, five years ago. Yeah, June 30th of 21. Congratulations. Yeah. Welcome to the civilian world. That's right. Well, I got your present.

“That's another present. But, uh, we're seeing these. No, you haven't seen these?”

That's the, is that the 320? No, that's the say P-211 GTO with the new optic on there. So I got a friend over at SIG. Maybe you've heard of him as names Jason. And, uh, he's a big fan of yours. He was like, he was serious. Yeah, man. You're serious. Yeah. This is so awesome, man. Maybe we can go, uh, break that bad boy in out back here. You know, I got a range right out the back yourself. I thought when I wrote, oh, yeah. Yeah, I think you're going to like that. It's got that compensator of

front shoots super flads. Got the brand new optic on it. I'm having a brain fart. I can't remember

how many rounds it all. I think it's 21, but we'll find out. It's never enough. It's never enough.

Obviously, man, this is unbelievable. You're going to love it. Oh, it feels so good. It's like, don't look like a glove. Oh, yeah. I'm just going to start wearing it right here. It's not the most tactical place, but, you know, on the chain like a bear gun. This is amazing. Yeah. Right on that. Amazing. Well, hey, we want to do a life story on you. Good. And, uh, all the way from childhood up to today. Is that you ready? Yeah. All right. Where'd you grow up? Greenbull South Carolina.

The Greenville. The Greenville South Carolina. Yeah. What we're into is a kid. Sports. Sports definitely. Um, I laugh. Uh, I played basketball. The basketball league at the Baptist Church. The Baptist Church, basketball league. Still this day. I mean, my high school buddies, we laugh. That was some of the most violent. That was Baptist on a cousin's screen. It's like, man, it's church. What are we doing? You're like, throwing hell, but it's getting kidding. You know, but sports. Um, and then,

I mean, my first seven years, I went to the Christian school and then I switched in the public school

system. Uh, that transition, I was not to get a peer pressure. I went and get it all. I almost got expelled, like, been eighth grade for about showing some new pictures for a class project. It was not smart. But it was a dare. You know, this is what I mean. This is what I mean. Maybe, maybe the public school system, uh, I was not the sensitized to. And it would be like, uh, you know, I dare you to go up there and do this. And I knew it was wrong. And I'm like, I'm not doing that. I'll get in trouble.

Chicken. I'm not chicken. I mean, I just go there and do it. You know, the next thing, you know, I'm sitting in the principal's office with my dad and mom come and they're like, what did you do? And I'm like, well, I showed this picture for propaganda for the class. Technically, what I showed was correct. It was propaganda. It just wasn't. I don't know. I was bad boy. What do you parents do? Uh, my dad had a landscape economy. So he built it. Um, and that time he had,

it's a before your lows and walmarts and home deposes and stuff like that. But, um, it was, uh, he had one of the top three largest landscaping companies in Upstate, South Carolina. Yeah. Right on.

“So that's what I grew up in. And I think that's where I got a lot of my, uh, work ethic. Um, my mom,”

she definitely work on, like a hard, good, or smart book smart, um, dad, hard worker drop down the 10th grade street smart. Gotcha. Um, but my dad would drop me off. The bigger I got, the older I got, the more stuff I had to do, you know, like, now, okay, now you can carry this. Now you can do that till you get to a point where I'm getting dropped off on the job site. But here I am just a teenager playing football. And I'm working for my dad's company. And you got all these grown

men looking at you like, oh, you know, silver spoon, you know, like, it's my message. I'm sorry, they're like, um, oh, silver spoon, you know, and these, these are older days, full bids, drinking whiskey in their coffee in the morning and smoking filter with cigarettes. So

“the only thing I could think to do is just out work them. And that's what I tried to do. I'm like,”

I don't, I don't want you to think I'm getting getting back as my dad's the older the company.

and I'm just looking, I'll be like, you know, we can get this job done quicker if you stop all

those cigarette breaks. No shit. How old were you when you stopped when you would stop at that hour? Probably 16, 7 things, more in there. Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, you don't think about it then, but you look back at your life. We're like doing the book. I'm reading the right and all that stuff. You're like, man, I forgot about that. Oh, that's crazy. You know, what you can look back and see. Oh, this is where I started forming that mentality. So yeah, I grew up in a Christian home,

musicians, singers. And yeah, there were times where, like, my family would be singing at another church. And we'd give visit that church and they would sing their singing play,

or it'd be a startup church. And we'd give help open it and play. So that's kind of,

“I just remember a lot of weekends going over to my aunt, uncle's house and all of us, uh,”

I'm going to kids are running around eating ice cream and playing, but I just remember them in there playing. Right on. Yeah. Are you a Christian? Yeah, Christfaller today. Yeah. Right on. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I actually, I'm a musician as well. I play faith promise. I did three services Sunday. Oh, right on. Yeah. Gotta be there. 6 a.m. All right. I'm proud of home stage at 6 a.m. ready to get. Yeah. Brother sisters, uh, and I'm single, single child had step brothers and steps

distributors later on. Like, I was already a teenager. So I mean, we connected a little bit,

but not like growing up. Wolverine tune high school. Sports again in musician. I played football.

I was my main sport. Started lifting weights a lot more. Um, and then, uh, probably eighth grade, I started picking up musical instruments. And just because I was watching and then I would learn. I taught myself how to play the drums, um, uh, but I started on bass. And, and then one that went and grabbed my mom's acoustic guitar and I did a full chord. And when I did it, I was like, ooh, I like that. And then it's over the years. I've gotten better and better and, you know,

“right on. Well, I think I read somewhere that you get into satism or something.”

Yeah. Oh, you did. Did you? Yeah. I think I read that somewhere. How do you go in from being in a good Christian Baptist family plan that churches to get into that? Uh, well, again, looking back, I can see what happened. Um, my parents got divorced when I was about 13 or they all started around 13. Um, but they would, I just remember the mask and maybe it came up to me like, hey, are you okay with this? You all right with this? And I'll be like,

yeah, I don't care. I don't care. I actually haven't had it. So they don't give an F. You know, I haven't like, I don't give an F. But uh, that I don't give an F started going into everything that I chose to do. And I had a friend introduced me to witchcraft and secondism. And this is in high school from the 80s. And uh, you start studying Aleister Crowley and, uh, like, books on spells and witchcraft and then, uh, signing packs with the devil, things like that. And I went, yeah, I'm an idiot.

Actually, I'm a very blessed person because there was a lot of people praying for me during that. And I didn't know it at the time. And they weren't sure what was going on with me. But I was being prayed ever. And I'd go on to, for the listeners, they may not even remember of BCR tape. But you know, when you could go to Blockbuster or pick a flick and rent movies, uh, please rewind,

“be kind, rewind. Yeah, yeah, remember that. Um, but I would go to the horror section and I'd get”

aid as a, and watch every single movie they had. And uh, I started doing like these little skits. If you want to call them that, we're like, I would pretend to talk like Freddy Krueger, but worse. And, and I would act like a day man. And I was, I was an idiot. I was losing my friends. I had a bad attitude. And I'm talking about my friends that, in the book, I put in there. We called ourselves the brew crew, but we spoke to like Molly Krueger. And that was our

high school group. And we're still talking to this day. Um, I'm out of fact, I'll be seeing them in a couple of weeks. But, uh, they were starting to move away from me like, man, you got to let that stuff go. We love you, but we can't, you can't put up with this stuff. And, uh, I would do, I was just a evil. Like, I'm not a huge hunter. Um, I will hunt if I need to, for some reason, I don't, I don't have a problem hunting birds and stuff, and I love fishing. But,

during that phase, I shot everything that came into my yard. And I was out of cruelty. I was going through some, I was going through some stuff, right? I was the draw. Evil power. Power. Yeah. You got power out of that? Well, you think you do.

it's, it's a lot like what I, what I saw in my law enforcement career, you just want to belong. You want to fit in somewhere. And, uh, yeah, I was, I was pretty evil. So, that's really why I don't do it now. And I don't have a problem. I've been roommates, my best friends do it. We'll cook it up whatever. But, as far as me pricing it out and learning what all I got to do, I'm like, I'll just get a trigger all this game. I don't know. I was about there.

But, I was doing things like I had a Volkswagen bug oddly enough from my first vehicle. So,

you got to get that worked on in a different place, right? I don't imagine you're driving a

“Volkswagen bug. A lot of head ring. A lot of head ring. I think it was a 1970,”

like, like bug. That was my first, first vehicle. Uh, so, um, no wonder you got into it. Yeah. No, no. So, you take it. The place we took the car to to get fixed or worked on was a Christian shop. And, there's openly Christian, Christian music and everything. I mean, I would play, like, it would be like maybe a Halloween or some supposed satanic band from the 80s. And, I would, I would set the cassette. Uh, so when you cranked up the car, it would be right at a very

horrible, horrible, horrifying part of the song or something. And I would do that just out of

pure spite and enable this. So, as the story ends, um, one night, I, uh, I was doing this skip. We were drinking hallucinogenic, something like that, just beer. And, uh, I was, I was spending night at a house, uh, in my buddy and his girlfriend were on the bed and I was on the couch. And, uh,

“I was acting like a scene that I'd seen in one of the movies, wherever's the Damon possession.”

So, I'm acting like my voice is fighting the Damon voice. And then I would talk in the Damon voice. And then I would talk in my voice and be scared and be like, no, no, and at the end, it culminates to seeing culminates with me laughing like the Damon because the Damon wins. And it's now possess me because I saw that in the movie. And, uh, like again, that I don't care that I don't give enough. I was applying it to everything. Um, and as I'm laughing like the Damon, I was facing

the back of the couch. But as I'm laughing like the Damon, I roll over and as I roll over, what I see is like a watery image, but it's red. It's, uh, and it's like, you know, you can see the ripples. And it's a watery image and red. And it was a demon or the devil. But it was a demon looking at me. And it was smile. It's fingers are all like cricket with long fingernails. And as I was laughing acting like I was being possessed and rolled in and saw it. It was looking to make smile and going

like this. So, come here. And I screamed. I screamed a very high pitch loud scream. And from just here on the couch to hit in the lights, which right there, that quick, I was pale white. I was pouring sweat, panting, breathing, and my buddy Ricky jumped up. And he gets what, you know, because his girlfriend screams like, what the, and he goes, what is it? And I looked at him and I said, if I ever do that again, I said something to the effect. But if you had an optimistic

thing, you can take a bat, crack me over the head with it. And he had been telling me, you know, but the room just got super calm and it was like it wouldn't even Ricky. It was like, it was like the spirit. Look right at me and said, because he just calmed down. He looked right at me and he went, I told you that night. And I was like, yes, you did. And I didn't sleep that night. I walked

“to church. I didn't have, I didn't have my collar. I hitched her out over. What did it look like?”

What did it look like? The demon? Yeah. I saw red. So it was a red background red image and the demon was red. But you can see the outline of the demon. And you can see the face was kind of stretched and horns and just the finger, man. This black, yeah, this looking at me smile and come here. And that was it. That was it for me and Devil Worshman. I was done. That was it, I was it, man. So I started. So yeah, I grew up Christian. I remember when I went to get baptized in the

ask you, they say, you've been saved. I said, yeah, they said, well, when were you saved? I said, which time? I said, what do you mean, which time? I said, man, I went to a Christian school

for my first seven years. And like every week or every couple of weeks, they'd bring in a new

preacher and they'd go hellfire and brainstorm and they'd do an alter call. I felt guilty to everyone of them. I got saved every time there was a priest that came here. Maybe I needed to be don't twice, you know what I mean? He's still a little dirty. That's for everybody. I've been trying to simplify my routine lately, especially around training because when you're lifting,

full of different products. You all know exactly what I'm talking about. That's what I like about

AG1 Pro. It brings a lot of support into one simple morning routine. You're getting the full AG1 next-gen foundation, plus targeted additions designed for performance recovery, gut balance, and strength. And for me, recovery is a huge part of performance. Training is one side of it. But what you do outside of the gym matters just as much. AG1 Pro supports your body's ability to maintain lean muscle, support steady cellular energy production, and helps maintain gut balance and

comfort. It's also NSF certified for sport, which matters because I want to know what I'm putting in my body is tested for safety and purity. So if you're trying to be more intentional about your training, recovery and daily routine, AG1 Pro is a clean way to make a pro move in the morning. Visit drinkag1.com/sures to get a free AG1 Pro Yeti shaker in your AG1 Pro welcome kit. That's drinkag1.com/sures.

Pick up your phone. Look at it. Count the number of companies you've never heard of

that know where you slept last night. Nobody can. And that's the point. After not even using or calling out to servers all day and all night, reporting where you go, what you look at, and what you buy. Glacier security NS cuts those calls off before they connect. Not after before. It's the same greater protection people with Clarence's carry, built by the guys who used to build it for them. And you don't manage it.

Open the app once, hit the button, close it. Glacier. Download it today on the app store.

And remember, privacy isn't paranoia. It's protection.

“You were interested in psychology. Yes. What got you interested in that?”

Uh, great question. Actually, my parents watched my parents get through depression. Watching my parents get through depression, watching from my understanding as a young teenager that they went to a doctor. A psychologist, psychiatrist, whatever. And that doctor gave advice of my dad needs to leave for whatever reason. And I'm thinking as a kid, I'm like, what? Why would they? Why? So that. And then I watched my dad suffer through depression when he was in his 30s.

I saw my mom and that kind of, I kind of got me interested once I saw that as, I guess, is an elective in high school. I know it's able to be an elective in college unless it's your major or whatever. But anyway, I saw this classes and I took a man. I mean, but behavioral psychology, child psychology. I still got the books. You know, it's like I pull back on that when

“I'm talking to parents today. I'm like, listen, you need to understand the development of the”

brain and kids. And there's certain things. They don't need to be trying the process and watch, like horrific slasher flicks that look 100% real or play in certain video games that look 100% real, you know? Yeah. So, go, go. We'll got your interest in law enforcement. Oh, I'm sorry. I'll get back on the psychology thing too. Okay, I'm trying to get a sip of coffee without burning myself. Get it. I didn't burn myself. I was waiting. You know,

that guy is too late for me showing save yourself. I'll see the light. So, psychology, I started taking in high school and man, I really was fascinated with it. So, several times in my college life, it was my major. But I ended up majoring in criminal justice and I got a minor in psych.

“But they would have, I think, six hours, two more classes. I could have got a double major.”

But I was, I was out. I was, when I graduated, I was done with college. Right on. So, what did, what, what, I mean, dad's landscape or mom's book, smart wood? What happened to me? Yeah, what happened to you? Why, why, law enforcement? Um, I guess, when I was in college, I started taking electives because I was changing stuff around. I mean, at one point I had like business as a major and one point I had like computers and I was before even wind that is

in stuff was out. It was just the old 1980s square, you know, font, the square font. But I came

psychology and sociology mixed in like studying criminals after their death, brain, you know, all kinds of forensic stuff. I loved it. Um, not so much like the business law and taught

“law, stuff you have to take as well. But just that whole enforcement thing. I don't know,”

I really took to it and I was already bouncing. So, as a balancer and Charleston South Carolina, some of the places I bounced at, they had a cop with work a side job there and be outside and

I just start like a sponge, man, just started talking. And the first time I went on a ride

along, I was like, yeah, this is what I like, this is good. Why would happen? I don't, you know? I don't know. Like, when I was playing college ball, it's very similar to this. I almost signed up for the Marine Corps, but I was already in college. And I remember dropping somebody off from college, a kicker had a friend come in, who was at Paris Island and I'm in Charleston, North Charleston, and he needed to ride back and I had a car. So, they searched, long story sure, or I drove him,

I said, look, I'll drop down, but on the ride back, you're driving me back and I'm studying, because I got a test in the next day. So, I'm at Paris Island and I had a high-intime. I was just shaved all the way up, number one, and maybe like, actually nothing all the way up, and then just the number one right there. So, it kind of looked like maybe I should have been a Marine, but I ate at the Burger King on the base, and I don't know what stripes mean. I don't, you know,

I'm a kid, you know? And I'm getting these looks like, why am I not saluting or something? And I'm like,

I'm really not supposed to be here on that. But I remember, I've always thought that the

uniform was awesome, but I remember it was like I'm maybe seeing the sun setting. I mean, it's breaking, it's going down. You can barely see the, like, what's left of the sun, and you hear it. And you see over the crest, man, you see that flag coming. And here comes the Plotaine, dude, I got goosebumps right now. I was like, there's some of the coolest stuff I've ever seen. So, I thought, I sort of wanted to do. And I go back to college. I got everything lined up.

I just got a sign on my name, the dotted line, and I go back to tell my coach, that college that I'm going to miss a football season, and when I come back, I'm probably

going to be a lot lighter. Probably won't be that line in a way you're looking for. I'm probably

going to be more like an end or something, you know, moving me on out. But he said, why? And I started telling him, come, Rotterie, the discipline that just being a part of something bigger than yourself, and all this, and he, he was a son of a Baptist preacher. He said, son, we got that

“here. We're build, that's why we got the rock out there. We're building the foundation”

the whip building this program on the rock. And you got to like, we got dress codes. We got this and hook line. It's like, that was it. That's, of course, it's like I got the sign right off. So, but yeah, the college football, um, that was great. That was great. I went in the best, you know, I had a bad attitude towards the end of my time, but it was, it really taught me a lot. Tell me a lot about team and tell you that. I had the highest, I mean, I think I had the highest

grade point average. I had a 3.8, my last two years. So, I don't think I'm either smart, as you know how to take notes. I don't know how to teach your talk. You know, I was good at memorizing, but I signed up. I had to set up for me to where I had to go to class to like one o'clock on Tuesdays and Thursdays. So, I go out party, do whatever man sleep in, get a good workout. They had mandatory signing for breakfast. And even though I had to go to class to one o'clock, I had to go

up there every morning and sign in before 7 o'clock. And I remember talking to the coach and I was like, the purpose of this is to make sure that football players are awake. You know they're up and they're going to class on time. They said, yeah, I said, I've got one of the highest grade point averages on this team. And I don't have to be in class to one. Why don't I have to come in here, sign? That's where I learned about team. Because everybody's doing it. And I was like,

wish I didn't know man, I just set myself up for some classes. I'm off anyway. I was going to class, you know. I'll just sit here and watch days of our lives until class starts or something. Yeah, it's a fun life. Young in the restless. Oh man, man. That's back when we only had four channels, you know. The old knob. Yeah, I'd say it, man. You're awesome when you had the remote control.

“Let's get to Keller. Mm. You can't hide money. So where do we go from here?”

Um, you asked quite a lot of enforcement. I guess I can go there. Yeah. So when I started taking

by a law enforcement and like pressure points and control tactics and stuff like that. We were

“getting certified and that kind of stuff, even as bounceers. I was just getting more exposure to it”

and I just took to it. I don't know if it's, I've always had like a, a bully of bullies. I'm not trying to say I'm tough. I mean, you're an awesome tough day. You've had all kinds of people on here. It's not a chest beating thing. It's just that I've always liked the underdog, I guess. I've always, uh, I mean, have I been a bully in my life? Yes. They're our credit. Yes. But for the most part, I was a bully of bullies. Like if I saw somebody picking on somebody

that that that was like, let's just say football in college. Let's just say somebody's a starter. You know, they're starting. They know they're starting. They're awesome. Um, but you got like a third

stronger, third, third team. You know, they're never going to start. But they got hot in there out there

and they're trying. But you see that starter roughing up the person, even after the whistle blows, well, then maybe that's when I'm coming full speed and I'm putting it in your whole nice and go, oh, that's my fault, man. I didn't hear the whistle blow. Sorry. Let me help you up. And then have a conversation that we can do this all day or you can quick pick it on that guy. You know, that's awesome. If it's 50% got 50% don't go 100 or we'll go 100 and then we'll see. You know,

I like that. You know, I wish more people were like that. Yeah. Well, it goes with the, as I got an older, it goes to everybody's, you know, warrior warrior, but now warrior's offensive, but really shepherd. Because in my mind, I look at it like this. Not all warriors or shepherds. The warrior's going to go in there and get it done. Whatever it takes, but not all warriors or shepherds. A ship, but all shepherds are warriors.

I like that. If you're a shepherd, I mean, you're out there. It's the flock. Your, your, your, your peace officer. You're protecting to protect and serve. You used to say it on every police car.

“You know, that's what you are. You'll, you'll go after you'll leave the flock to save the one.”

So what happened on the ride along? Anything impossible. Well, goodness gracious. Anything and everything was exciting to me. A car stop coming up to a burgolid already cared. Yeah. I was, yeah, I was sucking it up. What kind of questions were you asking the guys that you were bouncing with? Well, I mean, higher in standards. What is it? What's the tryout like? You know,

what, how long you've been in it? It's cool stories. You know, I'm, I'm sure I was like,

everybody else, you've shot anybody. You've been shot. It's like the first question.

How many people have you killed? You know, stop with the, that's not what you ask them. Don't ask them that. You know, but I loved it. And then I came out of college with that three eight average deans list the last two years. Even though I was a little concerned like trash, I was all around on paper, you know, um, but I couldn't get a job. Everybody I went in the club, but I applied it four different places. And they said at that time, they said,

man, we really, they told me they liked it that I was a good candidate, but they weren't hiring white men at that time. And I was here. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, well, that would have been good to know before I spent the last four years majoring in this. So I went to, I went to the mall to be a mall cop. And they said, I was ever qualified. I'm like, well, I'm like, bro, I'm just trying not to bail it to the strip. You know what I mean? I'm like, this is, uh, so I ended up

landing a security job. And here I am in a cheesy polyester uniform walking around turning the

“key, oh, third shift. The first night, I was like, this isn't bad. It was like a four-star”

hotel. You're walking around, you turn the key and let listen to that you're hitting all your

spots and you got food and it's nice. That was the first night. The next night they put me on in the

band and well, it's abandoned on third shift concrete plant on the intercaster waterway. And it was me, God, and critters. And that was it. But it ended up being a great time because I needed to do some inner soul searching. Um, I was heartbroken at the time. And, uh, man, it was good to be alone by myself. We're not alone, but to be alone with God. And I would write and I would just, you know, for two months. And then I was like, okay, I'm after this, you know, I'm going to

get a job. And I bounced at a legitimate country club called Desperados at the time. It's not there anymore, but it was, at that time, it was the largest dance floor in South Carolina. They had bouncer's at country clubs? Oh yeah, I did not. Well, I mean, I say country club, I don't mean like, golf country club. I mean, you need a country bar. Yeah, sorry. Okay. Yeah, got you. Bouncer to the country club. I was like, wait, what did you? Full contact golf. Yeah.

You got a guy with a sweater vest over here wrapped in out. Yeah, I know, right. Yeah, I know.

I got the call from Greenville County Sheriff's office, which is the hometown I grew up in. Right on. And I went back and I went to the academy. And then, uh, yeah, 93, I went to the academy and came out and started an uniform. How was it? Oh, loved it. Loved it. I wasn't really wouldn't mind going back right now. Really, 55. Yeah. Hey, you, you, because when you pull out there, you're office. You're in your car. You're going out in the answering calls, hopping calls. Um, but if I do bond back in,

I'm going to have to get full circle because I bounced. I was a cop. I was a fed. So if I bond back in and I'm a cop, whenever that's done, I got at least bounce for like 30 minutes. Where was it you bounce? I don't know. Uh, maybe I'd ask God, not Joe's. That's, that's a, as a country baller in Knoxville, Tennessee. Maybe I'd ask them, I wonder. Right on. You got any good stories from bouncing? Oh, my goodness, tons. Let's hear us. Yeah. Uh, so I kind of, I kind of said it

a second ago, but uh, when I first started bouncing, I was bouncing in gentlemen's clubs,

which is an oxymoron because I've never seen any gentlemen in there. In any of them,

and there was, uh, it then was living in the flesh as they say back then. But, and this has come from a guy who's at all girls, you know, all girls, uh, girl dogs, everything's female, you know, a lot of estrogen in the, in the household, but uh, yeah, I bounced there and I mean, it would be like two balancers. And really, that's where I started learning my gift to Gavin and, and, and verbal judo, some people call it because if you go up and you've only got two balancers and let's just say

there's two bachelor parties in there, 15 of party. You're going to take on 30 people or you're going to go up and push and go, hey, stop what you're doing or spin them around or you're going to go, hey, buddy, you're having a good time. But listen, you can't do that. Balls are going to

“get mad. I think I want me to kick you out. All right, baseball. One strike, two strike, three strikes”

you're out. Some people obviously already out by the time you get to them. But, uh, yeah, uh,

the Hell's Angels would come to the bar, uh, I bounced that frequently. And, uh, I'm never

being this, I'm not down dragouts being on the bottom of the pile. And, uh, and I'm hit every time I'm getting hit, I'm hitting the dude at the bottom of the pile, the pile starts getting lighter. And, uh, you're looking at the Hell's Angels. And everybody can think of everybody and they're carrying them out and whipping the trash out of them. And I'm like, uh, I looked out when I looked, the last thing I saw was they had one dude, uh, one Hell's Angel was holding the dude's head on the

motorcycle seat. And the other Hell's Angels was coming up, kicking him right in the face. I just sat back up. I said, I've been three dollar covered charged. Come on in. So I got, I got that kind of exposure. And then you be in there bouncing, it's like another balancer. Two balancers fight breaks out. Where were you? Well, I was calling 911.

“The bartender can do that, man. The DJ can do that. He's supposed to bat. Where are you?”

I was stalking the cooler. I was stalking. I'm starting to get this Clark can't superman

thing or this, you know, uh, I come here. They're never in the same place at the same time.

Yeah, it was good. And then, um, I moved on like I said, uh, and then bouncing at that's broad as they were some, they were some knock-down drag-outs there. They were the one we called, the, I think, Charleston County referred to it as the clap. It's because they ended up being a whole family. It was after a Tanya Tucker concert. And, uh, we had sectors in your pieces. We calling out, uh, it was really cool because the DJ's booth was up in the roof. You had to climb

the ladder to get in it, so they could see all across the bar. And, uh, it's to an older guy in the younger guy, we're kind of getting verbal, a little pushy next to the mechanical bull. And, uh, my buddy went to break it up. What we didn't realize is that was a father and son. And then here comes mom with the still ladder. Bust my buddy's head wide open. Hey, I hear him say get this bitch off me. He's he raises up and he raises up, but let's just pour in that his face. Now, I was young.

Didn't have as much control. Not nearly as much fight training. So when I saw my best friend bleeding like that, I was like, that shark. You know, black, I was like, what? Chuck's lamb and bay, and we're fighting. You Chuck's somebody out. They dropped. Then they wake back up and they're fighting again. It was like, it lasted like 40 minutes. It's really shit. Clearly, we didn't know. I mean, I'll just say the fight skills one is good. You know, we could have probably ended it quicker,

but they get them to the door to Charleston County and then everybody got arrested. But it ended

“up being like, I mean, I think it's a son, the dad, the mom, there was a sister, a girlfriend,”

there was a wife. I got kicked square as the first time I've ever been to solidly kicked

up to that point, and like self defense training and stuff. I would hear instructors telling women specifically, listen, you can kick them in the nuts, but if their adrenaline's going, it might be bad unless you're doing like multiple strikes, like some crowd mega, like we're doing multiple, and we're not just hitting them one, we're coming back, back, back, back to creating

distance and stuff. But I always heard, you know, if you're adrenaline's flowing, it might not work,

to which every guy would say, it's going to work. Yes, what? It didn't work, because the adrenaline was flowing so bad. When she kicked me, I was, I was straddle trying to pick her up, and she was in it she kicked it. And I mean, I felt my stomach pulled and not, and just start pulling down, but because the adrenaline was so much, it didn't, it did not stop me. Now it was just saying,

“we're too later. Yeah, I was over there with the frozen peas, you know. Yeah, I think I need to”

go to the hospital. But yeah, it was good times. It was really good times. And then I got heard. I became a cop, and uniform patrol. It was great. I learned a lot. But after three years, I made by some narcotics investigator, and that was, that was when the bug, that's when, that's when I go

and I get certified at the state level under cover techniques. And that's the first time I do a drug

by at least for law enforcement. Because when I was younger, I did by drugs, but it was for me. I had bought the before. But yeah, now you're being trained by, I'm looking at, I'm looking at people in the unit, and I'm just like a kid, like I said in the candy store. I'm just trying to be a sponge, because there was some cool, cool digs in that narcotics unit. And I'm just trying to learn. And apparently I didn't learn fast enough, because I did, you can't pick your own nickname, you know,

“the mean, but I got the nickname little bus. How did that happen? I guess I wouldn't learn”

fast enough. I would like to say it could have been some of the training, but yeah, and then I then I graduated a bus man, you know, and then I switched to, I switched server from Northern Command narcotics. I went back to uniform for a little bit, because of a snappy with a former supervisor, and then I went to Southern Command narcotics. And then I swear I was at until I got picked up by FBI. What was the training like? The training at FBI or before. It was awesome. I mean, the police academy,

I went through, you know, I just thought about that. I went through the police academy during the winter months, and I went through the FBI academy in the winter months, I guess that's my time.

But I always snow on the ground. When you got under cover, I mean, today. Oh, I'm sorry.

They're under cover training. Yeah. It was good. I mean, it's the one week school. You're probably not going as in depth, but probably focus more on like quick bus, quick scenario is because think of it this way. If you're a cop, and let us just look at that situation. I've been a cop for three years. Now all of a sudden, I'm an narcotics officer in the county that I live in, where I've arrested a lot of people for three years. There's only so many ways you can

do your facial hair or grow your hair or change your clothes and cars before you start getting known. So you're doing quick stuff, like rolling up behind a crack rock, dropping around 15 minutes, come back by another crack rock hit, you know, and my lead and stuff like that. And we were also vise. So we were working the gambling was illegal in South Carolina and prostitution. So do you have a favorite of working dead? Working well. Yeah. Why? Working just the, at that level, it was just

the thrill. I just, I mean, it's fast pace. We're jumps. I were doing jump outs, roll up in the hood, high drug trafficking area. Whatever. If there's a high drug trafficking area has been reported on a lot, roll up, jump out, chase the jump out boys. Five of the corner. So would you go after are you going after low level street dealers? You're going to be there. Yeah, it may be. Now you try to work your way up, but think about it as far as like going long-term undercover. If you're

task force officer and you're working with the feds and they can put you somewhere. Yeah, but I would say it's going to be tough. Sure, maybe like New York City, where it's so populated or maybe

“Miami, but it's going to be tough. I think to go deep undercover where you've been known as a long force”

officer. Now when I moved to Tennessee, nobody knew me. I don't even been here six months before I went full-time undercover in a rural county in East Tennessee. I did that because, yeah, nobody knew me here. But once that case is done, you know, I'm not, now I'm overt,

I've been never heard at Stamner Impossible to do undercover work now, at this point in time.

It's getting harder and harder. With facial recognition and all that kind of shit. Exactly. I mean, with the, I mean, just picture facial recognition and say, I've got three different identities. Yeah. But I show up and then, or the, or the system's going to catch it. It's going to be like, hey, this is the same dude. He got three different names, you know, something like that. We're going overseas. That's, yeah, that's where I've heard. Yeah. You're not even going to get

a pseudo pass boarder. Yeah. I mean, imagines or anything. I thought about that when I retired.

“I'm like, I go overseas. What if I did, I mean, I didn't, but what if I did go covertly in the past?”

And now I'm over there and the thing hits and says, oh, that's got calorie. And I'm sending near Scott Payne, you know, how do I explain that? Pretty sure I'm getting secondary. Yeah. So that kind of stuff are they teaching you? Um, is it all on on the job training or, yeah, I mean, it's like good, good operational security. Um, probably for that stuff, it's going to be more like how to do a controlled by. So in other words, I'm going to be wired up. So for me,

it goes hand to hand in operating sources. Um, because somebody's going to surveil you. We're going to cover you to go in there. We're going to be listening. You're getting the evidence. You're coming back out. And then I'm turning it over. Um, we got stuff like that. And then you learn some laws. And then you might get the technical surveillance school. They kind of go together. Now I'm

“learning how to wire stuff up. Now I'm learning like I'm building coolers and putting cameras in”

them and, you know, stuff like that. But that was 93. I mean, technology now, who knows what they can do. A lot of people think we can do stuff. We can't anyway. Cause the TV, you know, they think I've got like a, they think in this cross. I've got to listen and device and I'm like, my awful small.

Well, I mean, I was going to get recorded on that thing. I always notice when somebody goes the

extra step. It does not have to be some huge thing. It could be someone following up when they said they would giving you a straight answer or taking a little extra time to make sure the job gets done right. That sticks with you because it shows they actually care. And if you're hiring that same thing matters, you don't just want someone qualified. You want someone who actually wants the job. And it's willing to go the extra step. That's where Zipercooter comes in.

Candidates can tell you in their own words, why they're interested in your job, which gives you a better read on who is really paying attention. In Zipercooter has a new feature that shows you the most interested qualified candidates first. So you meet the right people faster. Zipercooter's

powerful matching technology finds qualified candidates quickly. In no wonder Zipercooter is the

number one rated hiring site based on G2. Try Zipercooter. In meet great candidates who go the extra step for your job for out of five employers who post on Zipercooter get a quality candidate within the first day. Try it for free. It's zippercooter.com/SRS. That's zippercooter.com/SRS.

“Zipercooter. Meet your match on Zipercooter. How would you get yourself into a gambling ring?”

It could be a source introduction. Somebody who's already going gambling can invite me and go, but as far as working it, you develop sources and way we would set up and do surveillance. Like you go from being uniform patrol wherever things like this and all of a sudden you're investigating and you're sitting in a car for 12 hours. You're laying in the woods for 10 hours and watching developing patterns. But after a while, maybe a month or so, now you know,

I can show up at 11.15 because 11.30 they're going to come pick up their money. They do it every Monday. That kind of thing and you start learning and develop sources and then get enough to get a warrant, search warrant and arrest warrant and go in there and hit it. How do you develop a source? Oh, there's all kinds of ways. I'd say probably common. One of the most common in law enforcement is somebody gets arrested. They get arrested for something else and maybe I'm arrested you and I'm talking

to you and I'm like, hey, you know, you can help yourself out. You got any information on drug trafficking or anything like this. Oh, man, you know, I know this gambling ring. Okay, you can do that. Sometimes they refer to that as you got hammer every hit. Like we're holding you on the charts, but you can help yourself. Or my favorite is just developing a connection with somebody and then they're doing it. I want to say out of the goodness of their heart, you know,

but sometimes it is. Sometimes it's just patriotic. They just want to do it. Sometimes it's monetarily driven because I'm, I'm paying them, you know, how about what you're paying. They depends. Depends on where you're at. What the violation is and who, I mean, obviously they have to be

for some big stuff. I'm sure you saw similar stuff, right? But there's all kinds of techniques.

“It's that you can go to training and you can read stuff like interrogations. How to”

ask questions better. There's training like that. But for me with sources, it's just if let's say I've got something I'm looking at. And let's say let's go with the drugs. We got a high traffic area. We know they're doing a lot of dealing. We can't get anywhere close. Maybe I can set up outside of there. Having uniform patrol was a four-way stop sign on the way into that. How many people roll through a four-way stop sign? It's not hard to develop

probable calls to pull the car ever. Nobody drives perfect. You stay behind somebody long enough.

There are so many traffic laws. You can find something to pull them over for. Maybe now

you get somebody with dopamine in their car. And you say where did you get it? And you're trying to develop it that way. I'm like, that's where I'm trying to get to. But I'm over here. When it was special, I was just sailing a smuggling on the border. I would go to the border patrol and I'd say, look, border patrol, ice whoever may be. And I'm like, look, I'm specifically working the donutary. Ailing a smuggling organization. If you guys come across anybody, you have your hand.

And they say they're being smuggled by her, calling me, no matter what time, because I'm trying to build the case. And now I get it that way. And I might be two in the morning and say, we got some body and they're being smuggled by her organization. I'm like, cool, we're on our way. You don't start doing interviews and try to start building the case. I'm really all you're doing is essentially you're trying to either show that, yes, there are crimes being committed and you gather evidence

of that and charge them over. You go in there and you go, there are no crimes being committed.

“But we proactively went and investigated it. How about prostitution rings?”

Yeah, I mean, we did that. That was eye-opening as a young narcotics by some narcotics investigator, because I was like, you mean, in high school, I could have just came over here with 20 bucks. And I could have gotten this. I'm like, I'm not saying I would have done it. But I'm saying, I'm going, I didn't know as a young kid. I'm like, whoa, I would probably want to make some bad decisions. But you go over there and we would pick up the girls sometimes and roll through and get the

prostitutes and then get them locked up and then we could put our women out there and we would pick up the Johns coming. Now, that's super. There's been very bad things that have happened on cases like that, where the cover team loses the female and something bad happens. You know, so you gotta be, it's nothing to be like, it's about at all. You gotta be, you have some choke points set up, have a reaction team ready. Eyes on all the time, especially if they get in the car or somebody.

There's all kinds of things you gotta think about. But I will say that it was happening for me

“at that age and that level of knowledge to see who was coming. Really good. Remember that”

preachers, pastors, elected officials, you know, you like, wow. No, way, politicians. What? I know. It's sort of thought. It's crazy. The most stand-up human beings in the fucking world. No. Next is politicians. Next thing you're going to tell me the drugs are coming across the border. What? This is ridiculous. That way. That's absurd. Politicians wouldn't get a prostitutes, too. Man. Yeah. But that, like I said, at that point in my lifetime, it was shocking.

Later on, I'm like, you know, actually very good source potential. If you, I mean, think of who's what a street worker may have knowledge of. A lot of stuff on the street. Yeah. You know, do you have a rest any, like, public figures, like, politicians, investors, whatever. I know I've been I know I've been on the rest teams. Not my case personally, though. But like, big roundups or whatever, or whether people that were off limits, that you just had to let them go. Not to mine. It's the mayor.

Not to my knowledge. Not to my knowledge. But I will say on a local level, there were times where

you'd rest somebody. And everybody always says, I know the sheriff. I'm going to call him. Well,

you can call him and tell him that Scott Payne has your handcuffs and you're going to jail. But there were times where the phone call did work. And it was like, let them go. I'm like, all right, you know, I mean, you sign in the checks. You know, you didn't see some of that. But for the most part, for me, I didn't see anything like that. Like, untouchables. I'm sure it happens. You know, I'm not naive, but me personally. What about, you know, you're talking about

Not me personally, but I have seen females. I'm known females that go out and speak. And I've got peers that run undercover training. And they, they have people that have happened. It's just, again, I mean, think about it. If you lose the eyeball on that person or they hop in that car or do takes off, I mean, it's, I don't know how they do it now. Because in the bureau, when I was doing anything like that, it was more in the hotel room. Or we're going out. We're answering that

when it was all on the back page and stuff like that. We're going. And Operation Cross Country is we're out there and we're trying to, we're not, we're not necessarily trying to charge a prostitute. It's not a federal crown anyway. We're trying to recover underage, boys and girls being

“trafficked. And we're trying to go after the pimps and the traffickers themselves. That happens a lot, huh?”

Yeah. So yeah, usually there's always a pimp. Like, I, I don't even actually believe I'm like,

I'm like, no, this one doesn't have a pimp. And they follow her, they follow her out, which she believes she isn't a car or the pimp. And I'm like, gosh, she was lying on to me and I believe it, you know? But then, then we try to get them or try to uncover information. Why do they all have a pimp? I think for me, I believe it would be more so if you don't have a pimp, you might be getting in trouble. Like, the pimps, maybe somebody's like,

hey, that's my corner. That's my territory. Who's representing you? If nobody's representing you, well, then you better get some representation or this is going to happen to you every day, blah, blah, blah, you've got you. And there's matters. You know, I have, like, the escort services, I'm, I was calling and we were ordering up and, and they had different numbers. They had different numbers. And then you're just in, like, yellow pages or something. But this, say, there's this different

escort services listed or whatever. And you're calling, well, they're, they're like, on a trunk line. They're all going. It's like, triple A escort service. Mom's escort service. But we're calling. And even though it's a different number, I guess they've got a bank or something. And it was the same woman.

“Gotcha. And they'd be like, where are you from? I'd say, I'm from South. Can't you hear my accent?”

Yeah, what are you doing up here? Oh, you know, whatever my story is. And I've got,

finally, the madam. The, the madam that runs the escort service gets on the phone with this.

She goes, Scott, I just talked to you a minute ago. And I go, what? All right, listen, clearly, you know, we're not after you. We're trying to find other, you know, those rooms burned. You know, but I'm like, how, how make, can you tell me how many of these businesses are you? So I don't call you any more than that, you know? You know, you know, I'm sorry, you didn't. We're just trying to work. You know, shit. She goes, quit calling us. I'm not the, there's, there's like a fifth place

I call me, you get on the phone. And then I call another one, and they'd be like, I'd go, hey, I was trying to go. It's still us, Scott. I'd give it. And I, you know, like the Somali learning centers up in Minnesota. They're, they're, they're not legit. It's no, I'm sure they're legit. I'm sure. I'm sure. Damn. So how the FBI pop on your radar that? My sergeant, when I went to Southern Command, my sergeant sergeant Kailett, former Marine built like a bull with all pop by four arms

had to flew me and she looked like a bull dog. And at that time, my nickname was Kingpin. And we were on a long surveillance one day. And he said Kingpin, if I was young like you, and I had a four year degree. And I was single. He said, I'd apply for the FBI, and I put New York down as my office. And I said, they'd, what are you smoking? Because at that time, I didn't realize everything the FBI worked. I knew they worked bankrupt, because that's the only time I thought I ever saw them,

really. Um, I didn't know they have to be outworked everything. Title 21 and Title 18. I mean, you want to work alienating smuggling, you want to work drug trafficking, you want to charge felony in possession, got it all. And, um, hates told me that it was harder to get hired by them. It was a, it was a harder hiring process. And I'm not knocking any other agency before I get hate

“mail or get texts from my friends or from other agencies. Um, but that's what I heard and I”

applied for them first. Uh, won't see sort of saying that to me. And it was funny, because I started

looking and really, I was looking at where I was going to be in five years, because at that point, I was, I was at the sheriff's office for almost five years. And this happens almost everywhere. It was the one just Green Book County County Council would give themselves raises, but they weren't given the cops raises. It got so weird because the entry level pay, if you came in as a brand new officer, it was going up, but we weren't getting raises. So it might pass you like you could literally

at it, you were never going to max out before retirement. They were, they were one anyway. So we

started doing like almost protests. We would show up at the County Council meetings full uniform. If you weren't on duty, show up in your uniform, mass numbers, bring the news. And they finally started giving us some raises, but I just looked at where would I be financially. And it's clearly it's not all about money. Why would I get one of the law enforcement, you know? But I looked at the FBI and in five years, as long as you don't get fired and really, as long as you don't lie under

inquiry. I mean, I've seen, I mean, maybe things are different now. I don't know how they are now. I've charted five years ago, like I said, but as long as you don't lie, you might get dinged. You might get 30 days on the bricks. You might get demoted, but you're not going to get fired.

So at five years, you'll be at GS 13. And that's pretty good pay. And then you would max out at

“1310 before your retire. And that's what I did. I'm max out at 1310. But I was looking and I started”

to plan and I remember the hiring process, like the physical fitness test, that was cool. I dotted down back then. I was a bigger, bigger boy, but I dotted down to 250, too. And I went in with like 9% body fat. And yeah, I felt jacked. But as soon as I could, as soon as I got out of Kwanika, I was back eating and lifting like I know him. I did. And I was back to like 275, you know. But I applied, I took the test, phase one, it's like a lot of questions and a lot of big math

part and then there's something else. And I remember going in there, showing, I was like, I was like, I'm looking. And I'm dressed up, but I showed up with long hair and a beard, because I told

him, I said, do I need to cut my hair to do this phase one test? And they said, or are you doing

actual undercover buys right now? I said, yeah, I said matter of fact, whenever I finish the test, I'm driving back and going on ships and nine of probably going to make a cut came by somewhere. You know, and they said, then you can keep your hair that way. So I was getting eyes, looking at me anyway, right? So you got military people apply in there in their full uniform, they're in their dress uniform. You got accounts, lawyers, that math part. I was like,

“I know I said I had a three eight, I don't remember any of this. I tried to study geometry and algebraic”

unit and all this stuff. And I was like, when we come walking out of the mass section, I'm looking at the accounts going, it's another way I passed that. And I'm like, well, I'm not even going to sweat it then, because if you didn't pass it, I know I didn't pass it, man. And it turns out I passed. I don't know. I don't know if that portion was in there just the rocky mentally. You know, like you do all these questions. Like, no, I don't think my mom's sexy.

You know, I'm not fascinated with fire. No, I don't like harming small animals. 400 questions later. Maybe you slip up and say, actually, I do like harming small. You know, they do that. That's like a lot of stuff. And then they break you with like a math thing. And you come walking out and going, I don't know. And then you come back one more five hundred something questions. So maybe you slip up. And it shows up. But I did that. I did the polygraph.

I told you I applied with four different three shares. So obviously, in North Charleston Police Department.

“So polygraph, I'll never wind up them. The FBI polygraph, wow, was it way more thorough?”

I think I was in the box the chair for three and a half hours. And I went online. I'm like, I don't know what you want to tell you, man. I don't know what's skipping. I don't know. What are they asking you? Prostitution. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so this is this is a funny part. So I'm a narcotics officer at the time. So the question was, have you done any illegal narcotics in the last 10 years? And I said,

it's going to be close. And they were like, what? I said, well, right at the 10 year mark. I said, I did like Diana ball. I said, but it was like 8 cc. No, I came to remember how much was in it. But I stretched it over. It was like 10 ccs and I stretched it over eight weeks. I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm not even, I didn't know what I was doing. It's not enough to make my bastard handling me bigger. You know, but I didn't know what I was doing. And they go, now that's fine.

And then, so that's the question. Any illegal narcotics in the last 10 years? And I said, no, doing next question. Have you smoked marijuana in the last three years? Again, that's not now. This is 1993. Sorry. 98. I'm getting hired by the FBI. 98. narcotics officer. I know. Was illegal. Oh, yeah. I got you. Well, now I did that. Yeah, I did that. But he guys, have you smoked marijuana in the last three years? And I was like,

is that a trick question? He said, no, I said, do marijuana is an illegal narcotic. I just told you, I haven't done illegal narcotics in the last 10 years. And he says, well, you could have smoked weed up until three years ago. And I went, okay. Now, answer still,

it got way more thorough. It's like, yes, I smoked weed before. But it was like, did you? I mean,

“it starts breaking it down like, did I package it? Where did I store it? Did I buy it? Did I give it to anybody?”

Did I sell it to anybody? And I'm like, bro, I can answer all your questions with just a few statements. I said, I was the guy that would give money. And then somebody would go get the debt. And it would come back to the party. You smoke what you could. And then we go, whatever's left is guys with somebody else. I said, one time, one time, I brought it home. And I hit it. And this is the pants already divorce. I'm in mom. I hit it. And it was like the tail tail hard. That

storing man. I hit it. And I was like, I'd wake up going. Or that commercial where the doll keeps burying the bone behind me. I'm like, she's going to find it. And I get to put it somewhere else. I'd lay down and go, she'll find it there. I get movies somewhere. I bet you I moved it

20 times. I didn't sleep. And I'm like, I'm never bringing weed to my house again. But when I did that,

he says, he's answering me. He's heard it makes you paranoid. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I like it now retired. Retired. They're like, if you hit the Sativa, it's going to jack you up. You may have to take a

“like a, like a, a lasopam or something. I go, weed that jacks you up, that you have to take a”

rat that makes no. Yeah. That's not why you do it. Anyway. But so he's asking me. And I said, listen, I would put my money in. This is at any other. I said, I brought it home one time. I said, I've actually bought it at the place once or twice. And he's like, well, how many times would you say you smoked? And I'm like, I lay my hand up. It was like, this is like 1989. You know,

and he's like, he goes, well, would you say no more in 15? And I went, yeah, I sounds good.

And then he jumps on the table. Bam. You think this is a joke. You think? And while he's yelling at me now, I'm panicking and I'm like 15 joints, 15 nights, 15 bands. I don't know. And I'm like, I don't know, man, 15, 15 sounds good. But in my head, I'm thinking, okay. No, we're looking at our colleagues in 10 years with the exception of weed within three years and no more than 15 times. How'd you come up with those numbers? And I'm thinking, who's

kid needed to be hired? Yeah, good. That smoked weed in the last three years, but my more than 15 times. How'd you come up with those numbers? So anyway, it's pretty funny, but I'll pass clearly. And then you do another phase two, which is like interviews and stuff. And if you if you're blessed, or I consider it blessed, I got the letter saying, hey, you've been selected. New agents

“class, blah, blah, blah, blah, be in Quantico 9, 27 and 98. Right on. By them. And I'm there. How was training?”

I liked it. I liked it. It was um, it was cool because they have different dorm rooms there. But the Jefferson dorm, you get your own room. The Madison and Washington dorms, which at that time, one of those will be in use by the A before they built their own academy at Quantico. But those were sweet and you know, too bad room sharing a bathroom thing. And it was so packed when we got there, our class actually got the Jefferson dorms. You had your own room. Um, at the one point

they were talking about moving us back. And I mean, I went to the counselors. I'm like, I've been a cop, you know, men on teams and stuff. I'm like, other than I was being on different floors, I said, this is the same thing. Everybody's doors propped up and they were worried about the camaraderie, you know, and without effect, you know, we went that whole team council. I said it's a team concept. So we stayed there and it was good. Um, but I call that place to buy a dome. I've been in that

thing for three, four days and realize I haven't been outside. I've not had one breath of fresh air. Because you go from your room to the cafeteria to class, maybe to your room, to the cafeteria, to class, go to the gym. If you did do PT, you ran outside. But other than that, I mean, I've been walking around and going, holy crap, I've been in this thing for three days, like a Jerbal, you know, and a Jerbal town. I got to get, they need just like bust the door and

like, oh, there's some fresh air. But it was good. I had a really good town. And again, I went through the winter months. Um, so our yellow brick red run got snowed out, but we went on a nice long point run in the snow. It was fun. Nice. I wasn't the fastest, but my instructor Crawford. He was like six, nine Crawford. He would tell me a big fella. You think he would bring up the back? You know, because we'd have some scraggers just couldn't straw it out. I do that. You know,

come up, it'd be me. And like, like, I'm not at the best in shape. I'm the biggest on paper from my class. But you see, you coming up that gravel road, how about four or five straggers? Come on. Yeah, yeah, I get up at hell. I'm like, what do you weigh? 120 pounds, you should be. You should have

do? And the FBI? Did you want to go undercover again? Yeah, yeah, definitely undercover, dope,

SWAT. Um, I, uh, I did get New York City, oddly enough. Yeah, 56 field officers. So you list them one, 356. Um, but really in my mind after all the years, I'm like, they should just let you list your top 10. And if you don't get your top 10, send me where you're going to send me. Because man, you rack your brain. You're like, okay, I don't want to think this. I'm going to start Southeast and work my way up to East Coast. And then I'm going to end over here. I don't want

to be out in the last guy. I want to, you know, it's, and we all say a joke that they got a monkey. They

“blindfolded and just let him throw a dart at the map. And that's what you get. That blind monkey,”

like they're throwing it. But, uh, in 98, um, we go about the fiscal year, like October, right? Um,

so in 98, at the beginning of the year, FBI have been loading up Washington to field office because of the African embassy bombings. So at the end of the year, uh, your big office is like Chicago, LA, New York, San Fran, they're all screaming going, hey, we need bodies. Um, so the last three classes of the fiscal year, uh, we got hit and 15 out of my class got New York City. I had a, a new York was like 36 of my 156. I was working my way up, but I got New York. And then you go there.

And it's, uh, because it's the biggest field office in this a big city, they put you through like a rotation. You don't just get rid of a squad. You're going to work the applicant squad to give you time to learn the city. How to get the work, where your placard works, where it doesn't shortcuts, um, but it also is a time where you can pulling yourself off to help other squads,

because there's always a risk going on. And I immediately started working into the dope squads.

I went to the, they had a drug branch, probably not 11 had a drug branch. And, um, I mean, you had an Italian drug squad, um, an Asian drug squad. We had C33, which I think was mostly black gangs, but we had a Colombian, a Dominican squad, uh, hi, it was, it was big. And I went over there and started saying, hey, man, I'll help. This is my background. I'll help whatever you need

“would love to get, you know, and that's what I started doing. And I'll be the first one there.”

Last one to leave, um, pull surveillance. Do paper work, whatever you want me to do to kind of earn a name for myself. And then when it came time to go to an actual squad, um, they were going to put me on it. They were going to put me on a foreign counterintelligence squad, which, for me, at that point in time, would have been like watching pain draw. I was, I was been fish out of water stuff, but the supervisor had been urging me, said, hey, now this, yeah, he's, he's got to get

drug background. He needs to be one of the drug branch. And they put me, um, I was told I was going to hide a squad, hide intensity, drug trafficking area, squad, and uh, I got a phone call from the supervisor of the Columbia and drug squad that I worked with a good bit. And he said, hey, I just wanted to do you know that, uh, I found out you're going to hide. And I said, yes, certainly said, well, I'm in pretty good with the ASAC and the ASAC. They like our squad a lot. And I'm just calling you

because I remember you saying you'd like to come to our squad. And I'm just like, you know,

“I can make that happen. Um, but if you want to go to hide, I mean, you, uh, I'm like, I'm not an idiot.”

And we got a supervisor calling and saying he wants you, you know, I said, absolutely, I'd love to come to Columbia drug squad. And that's what I got. And that's why I was on for three years in, uh, I landed an undercover. I was already doing cameo's and we'd like, uh, well, cameo, just like, just like a cameo and, uh, in a TV show or something. Okay. It's like, I'm not going deep under cover, uh, for instance, let's say LA takes off three thousand pound weed shipment or a cocaine shipment.

And they pop it there, but they know that it was supposed to come to New York City. But they cut a lead. We get on the phone and we're like, okay, we need to know what the package looks like. All that stuff. We make the package the same way. And now we can go deliver that package to the targets that we're going to get it. And it depends on your, it depends on the assistant United States attorney you're working with. Some may want more evidence. Some may be happy with just this much. Like, hey,

you deliver it. They take control of it. Pop them. Some may be like, no, I want to actually know that they were playing on the opening. Okay. Well, how do we do that? Maybe we build something with a switch in it. So we deliver it. And me and another, in my pity to take this cameo, we roll up. I'm not showing you ID. I'm not doing all that. It's just rolling up the liver in it. Drop it off.

and then go and arrest everybody. Right on, right on. So I've got to remember your first big bust.

“And the FBI, man. So in New York, you would get big leaks. I do remember seeing the first time”

I saw like 100,000 plus X to C pills. I didn't realize how much floor space that would cover. I was like, that is a lot of pills. Well, I can't, it looks like fruit loops or everywhere. I'm like, good, there's gracious. That's a lot of pills. Some decent seizures of cocaine too, but I leave New York. And I got a specialty under cover transfer. I was actually assigned in New York when 9/11 happened. But the day of 9/11, I was under cover in San Antonio, Texas.

So as soon as I could fly commercially, as soon as I opened up the airways, I flew back and helped cover some leads down at Ground Zero and stuff. But my transfer was already kind of in motion at that point. And my boss, who said Joe Denver, he said, hey, Columbia Drugswad, I can make it happen. We're now 11, he was the acting ASAC and he ended up running pretty much the command post and everything. So he told me, he pulled me to the side and he said,

“listen, go out there, work with your brothers and sisters. Don't pick up anything there because”

if you get wrapped into this, they're going to cancel you transfer. He said, go out, work. But in other words, don't pick up a case because you'll lose your transfer. Don't you know? So I

appreciated that and I went to the border. So you go to the border. One of the first things we

had called out on us, like 3,000 pounds of lead, 3,000 pounds of lead. I mean, you're on the border, you're on the border. But I say that, but picture somebody working in Miami or one of these big ports when they pop a hole of a ship and you got like, I don't know, 1,000 kilos of cocaine, you're like, yeah. So the bigger the stuff, you know, bigger, you might 3,000 pounds in South Carolina, with at that point time would have been ginormous. They would have been a huge bus, but on the border,

you know, you could just 3,000 pounds of lead. Look, what is it, a semi? No, I'll tell you what, I had an extended cab, long-bad Chevy when we loaded that thing. I mean, I'm literally in the truck, we'd ever my head right here, got to like this and we loaded another truck. So yeah, I mean, they were in big bells, you know? And then bullet casings everywhere because it was a rip, they called them pseudo cops. So you got cartel or gangs and what they're doing is they'll go get

the uniforms, they'll have the exact same year model make of either the amulets or the more patrol truck, paint it exactly the same and they ride around doing hits. So what that particular case, I'm talking about was it was a rip, they came over like they were the police, police, police, but I went to, you know, I mean, up in the door, all this other, but it's a rip, they're not real cops. They're either gang or cartel members and they're ripping them and I mean,

there was blood trails everywhere and, you know, now you're trying to figure out the case, who's aware? Checking the hospitals and you're like, "Hmm, check the hospitals in Mexico." And then the Mexican officials, through our liaison, go over and they do their interrogation. They got a confession. But the report I read said they took the pencil and stuck it in the gun when and twisted it and that's when the guy can fast and I'm like, "Sustia, we can't do that here

in the states." That's called, "We have a constitution. I can't do that." That would be bad. But I appreciate you getting the confession, you know, in another country. So do you like San Antonio or New York better? Working. Working? I would say, I would say the San Antonio division. I was down on the cabin on the border. I would say that because that's where I learned how to really be a case agent

from beginning to end. I love New York. I had a good time, but for really the whole third year,

I was undercover. So the two years, you're on a big squad and you're new. You don't know how to take a case from beginning to end. Even though I was a previously a cop and an investigator, but maybe I'm the guy that's young with no family and I'll stay out on the late hours with the surveillance squad, you know, with the NYPD detectives. And then maybe we got a case and it's like, hey, Scott, back because back then, there were still using beepers. So I would go down to World Trade

“Center weekly and because there was a beeper place in there. I can't remember which one. I don't”

know if it was motor roller or what, but you had to get a corridor and stuff and maybe a search or I don't know if we had to get a search or a background for it, but clone the beeper. So bad guys beeper, we go there, clone it. So every tech, every beep you're getting sent to you, I'm getting a copy of it. And I'm over here and I'm breaking down. Oh, okay. I'm breaking down their code. I'm like, all right, so that's a key load. They're meeting this dude at 44th or whatever, you know,

one 44th. And so you do get on that case. Well, the next case opens up. Like, hey, man, Scott was

might get pigeonhole. And I just didn't get enough time to work a case from beginning to end

“on my own when I got to Macallon. Yeah, that's why I do that. For this one, you do your first”

case and you're putting it together for prosecution and you're looking at the boundary going, that's pretty thin. I'm like, man, I should have taken more pictures. I should have made

more recordings, but by my third case, it's airtight. Right on. Well, let's take a break and then we'll

get into some more on the bone. We're going to work down on the border. Let's do it. I used to dip all the time when I was in the seal teams. Nicky team was just part of the day. It was a ritual. So I understand why guys reach for it. You want that pouch? You want focus? You want something during work or training, but nicotine is addictive. And if you're using it around workouts, it can work against you and the gym. That's why I've been using ultra pouches.

Ultra gives you the pouch experience with zero nicotine in zero caffeine. And for training, that's huge because nicotine is a vaso constructor. It narrows your blood vessels and can work

against the pump you're trying to get. Ultra uses clinically proven new tropics in adaptogens

to deliver immediate focus and smooth energy that lasts one to two hours. You pop one in about five minutes before a workout, run or work day, and it helps sharpen your mind and lift your energy without the nicotine caffeine, crash or addiction. I keep these in my gym bag for that extra push before a workout. They're also great when you're working, fasting, or trying to stay locked in. And they have great flavors like cool mint, wintergreen, tropical watermelon, and blueberries.

Lately, I've been using the tropical flavor and I love it. Ultra is the ultimate guilt-free pouch, delivering instant focus and mental clarity without nicotine or caffeine. New customers can use

code SRS to get 15% off at takealtrad.com. That's takealtrad.com for 15% off with code SRS. After

you purchase, they're going to ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show until them we sent you. Looking for another way to support the Sean Ryan Show, head to Sean Ryan Show dot com and check out the latest drops from vigilance elite. We just release new gear, including this beautiful, moisture-wicking VE performance hat, and SRS campfire mugs, and you guessed it, vigilance elite gummy bears. Oh shit! Every purchase directly supports the show and helps us

continue bringing you independent conversations without compromise. Visit Sean Ryan Show dot com and grab your horse today. All right, Scott, we're back from the break. We're getting ready to get him to what you were doing down in San Antonio. Yes, so I did do undercover while I was there,

“but they were out of town. I was a case agent as well, so a lot of people, I think one of the”

misconceptions is a lot of your think if you're undercover, you're undercover full-time. We do have that and my experience is very rare. So you're still an agent on a squad. So if I'm in Macallon, and I leave for a week to go doing undercover somewhere, when I come back, my boss is expecting me to be a case agent, not just an undercover, and they're looking at their squad going, hey, I know you're doing undercover over here, but that doesn't give me credit on my squad,

and we got these measures and marks we got to hit. So I just tried to be a good getter, be a big hitter on the squad, have a big chance. You're not able to concentrate on one specific thing full-time? It's rare, they're my experience. I mean, I'll Jack Garcia, Jack Garcia, it was

“in New York City. I think he was pretty much working nonstop undercover, but New York City is the”

largest office we got, so maybe it's a little easier to kind of. Now, I mean, I get it, if I'm a manager of a squad, and I know I, I know our threats are this, and we need to be working them, and I know, especially if you know somebody who is a good worker, and they're a ghost, they're not at their desk, and they're not working. So my ammo kind of was, actually, has my ammo. It's been my whole career, is to try to be above average. You can't be better than everybody, I mean, maybe you can,

I don't know. I'm just saying try to be above average. So if I am succeeding, and I'm one of the top producers, as far as cases, sources being developed, I felt like that gave me a tool to argue back to management to say, "Hey, let me go to this swat call out. Let me do this swat school. Let me participate at the undercover school. Let me do this undercover, and you're going to see

what I did, and until sometimes to my own detriment, but when I was down there, I was working

a lot of cartel stuff. Obviously, when I got there, as a case agent, working drugs, and then this new thing started coming up, and it was called Special Interest Daily in Smuggling. So we're kind of working daily in smuggling organizations, but what we're looking for is anybody being a smuggled

“into United States from a threat country. So China, Russia, things like that, and that's what you're”

looking for. So it's the same cartel. When I was down there, OZL Cardenas was the head of the golf cartel. And as violent as it was, at least there were some kind of SOP. They have some kind of standard order procedures, right? Like if they kidnap somebody, and we get hold of it as the FBI,

it's a hold of it. Now I'm over here, and I'm calling, you know, you call in to my squad, and maybe I

get the call. And it's like, "Hey, my son's been kiddin' that. The cartel's got him, and they tell him they're gonna kill him if we give him this. We don't give him money." And what I would do is I would come back on those cases, and I'd say, "Look, I need you to be honest with me." Because I'm not doing a drug investigation. I'm working an investigation trying to get your son back, because I've been kiddin' that up, and you're being extorted, right? But I need to know the truth, is they're

“dependable. And it starts the last start. I'm like, "Listen, if you lie, I'm gonna hang up the phone."”

It'd be truthful. I'm telling you, I know you may not trust me, but this is what we're trying to figure out. And then it would come out that yeah, sometimes Doug's missing. Like one of the last big ones I work there is my case. Three, I say kids. They're like 19, 20, 21. They were in way, every day. What they were doing was muting. But they would be told by the cartel drive this car. And it would drive from the cowland to Dallas. Whether they're being followed by the cartel.

When they get to Dallas, they stop at a mall. So the kids go in the mall, and they stay there.

Cartel never gets in that car. They go to the chop shop, wherever they're going. They open up the

trap. They take the dope out, put the money in. They go get the kids, kids now. The kids drove dope up. They don't know what's in the car. Driving, you know, you're in a dope game, sure. But drive back, don't know how much money. So what happens is they get back and there's like $100,000 missing out of the car or the trap. So they kidnapped the kids. And that's when we get involved. And the way it would work is like I said, I'm calling them, I'm with the family, tell me the truth. I'm going

over there because we used to operate. We knew that we really only had the battery life of the phone of the victim. Because the cartel wasn't big on recharge in the phone and they're using that phone to call and make the demands. Right. So we're working it. I call that we have a border liaison officer and that border liaison officer. We have a liaison. In Mexico, whether it's a common Dante, cop, the elected official, whatever, military, and we call, and I say, look, person name is this.

It's having as such in such a time that this street coming in this street corner, they said, there's like three suburbans rolled up, all blacked out. Some days with BDU's jumped out, grabbed this guy, named such and such around this time. Within 30 minutes to an hour, you get a call back from the board liaison officer. Yep, they got him. Mr. Cartel. What's the deal? Well, they won't.

“They always come in like, we won't 300 grand. Okay. So you just broke her deal. What you do?”

I go in there with a family. I'm like, you got 300 grand. They're going to have it. 100 grand. We don't have it. What do you got? We can come up with 60 grand. What else you got? The cartel was big on on the border. It was, if you had a four by four V8 or a harling, they were getting stolen all the time. So it's like, hey, say it's 2006. It's got a 2005 Chevy Tahoe, four by four V8. Okay. Cool. midnight. There goes the Tahoe with a 60 grand. Here comes

kid across these kids across. You know, we worked up like that all the time. But we did get those kids back because on that particular case, what happened was, there's a last stretch of 281. You're in Macallon and you're headed to the border. And there's a lot of use car loss. Well, sometimes some people working in this car lots might be, I don't know, a coin says with the cartel, right? It was nothing to have cartel living in your neighborhood. But

wind came out that when the car came back, the cartel members was an old guy, they called him Elogula, the eagle, uh, and a younger kid that just kind of like just starting out. And somebody started calling and said, hey, that old guy, he just came over here and bought two cars.

All right. He's just blowing money that he's never been blowing before. So he puts the target on his back.

They go and they press the young kid, the cartel does press the young kid, press the old guy. Old guy doesn't break young kid breaks and says, hey, yeah, he wanted me to take it with him. I said, absolutely not. And the last last information I got was, uh, they had chopped either both of his hands or it at a minimum of his fingers off. And he was cooked alive in a 55-gallon drum.

“Holy shit. I can't remember if it was acid or nasal fuel. They did both back then, but”

it's called elguisa. It's soup. They're making you in the soup. So I guess if you work for the cartel, don't steal from the cartel. Yeah. But OZL had all kinds of crazy things. He had a

yeah, I'll back then. Yeah. Yeah. Um, lots of kids getting cooked. Uh, well, it was a common technique

that they might use. I mean, Texas syndicate would do it too. That's a gang, but they that we've seen them a lot of people on fire and burn them alive too. Um, it's just violent. And I'm careful because I don't want people to go, oh, you're saying all the Mexicans, no, I'm not saying that at all. I love Hispanic culture. I've got numerous Hispanic friends still down there. But the cartel, yeah, it was violent. I mean, he had a lie on he fed people too. And that was confirmed.

Wasn't by me, but I remember the word came back. I came every time they were in a fixed wing

“plane or an helicopter liaison and then they're flying over and it was like, you see a big line”

in the cage and you're like, let those bones, we're all these bones in that cage and they're like, oh, they're polio, it's chicken. Pretty big chicken, pretty big bones. Yeah, it looks a little more like a femur, but I'm not, you know, everybody, everybody judge, you know. And then, uh, this is sick. I don't know, I don't, I don't know if her people get like, boggling gross on your shirt before, but I don't know, that's true. He had a, it's pretty

graphic on that show. Yeah, okay, good. He, uh, he had a, a little person, midget, I don't know. They were calling them midget. I don't know if anybody, but he had a midget. He was apparently blessed in the Netherlands regions and he used that guy to rape people. That's part of torture. Because when you get kiddin' out, I mean, there's, there's a big, on like, they'll take kilos, which is a 2.2-prown brick hitting the head with it, cigar burns,

all over you, electric heat, stuff, that was big back there. And I don't know what they do now, but

we always thought it was a lifestyle. But one Christmas Eve, uh, I was actually driving

to Arizona with my wife and kids and I got a lot of sources. And we start getting calls and what happened was, is a guy goes in car jacks of vehicle and drives right into Mexico and tries to sell to the cartel. What didn't look in the back is an infant in the back seat. So how the cartel is pissed because he's bringing heat that doesn't need to be there and he's an idiot. So they are threatening to kill him and then we get that call. Hey, they got my son, they're

going to kill him blah blah blah, and we're doing a whole broken thing. I've got sources of

“important stuff. I'm coordinating while I'm driving because I was a senior guy and when they get the”

guy back, he comes across the bridge bawling and they called me and they're like dude, the image is real. I'm like what? They're like, yeah, they said, he came across and he was crying. And they said, when the call came in, like FBI, like, hey, okay, we're on the phone, we got the money. We're ready. Let's meet. The message was in the run. The guy was crying. He was getting ready. He was getting ready to be tortured a little bit. Get raped by the magic. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. So about the time I was transferring out of there, or maybe shortly thereafter, the Department of Justice, I say we took off as the L. Cardenas. And I don't know what anybody else is thoughts on an orbit. I don't think we ever pictured it. You take that guy off to create a vacuum. So even though it was violent, we had this, hey, it's FBI case. You don't want to shut down the board and said, this kid can back blah blah, we had that kind of thing going.

And even if they did, they did call for the cartel called up to undocumented aliens coming from Yemen, because they came in and asked the wrong people and the car does like, we don't want this kind of heat. Hey, FBI. We got a T people. But when we took him off, it created a, it created a vacuum. And now everybody started to compete for power. Because under the golf cartel at that time, the enforcement arm, where the safest, the ETAS, paramilitary, must have been trained.

Those are the ones pulling up in the disturbance jumping out, grabbing you. They're the ones that are collecting the quotas. If you smuggle dope, or undocumented aliens, you have to pay a

If you didn't pay, they'll kidnap you. I've had sources get kidnapped and hailed and tortured.

“I'm a fat target. Same thing happening to them until they can play up their money.”

I don't talk for them. Same. Same. One of them, she was, she was tough. She was tough. She was, they threatened the rape her, but like 20 guys or something. She was an older lady. She's like, and I mean, she was tough. She's an English. And they were like, yeah. But yeah, the burning, the smacking, hitting the heads, stuff like that. But what happened is, OZL gets taken out. And now the safest are like,

well, where the ones getting all the stuff, we should be running this. We're going to take over. Then you got somebody trying to move up in the golf cartel. Then you got seen yellow cartel coming in and saying, no, we're going to take this spot. You got MS 13 saying, no, we're going to take this spot. And the last I talked to people that were down there working at, it just got to the point

“to where the extortions and the time frame and the money and stuff, they were just following”

three because they were just chopping people's heads off because everybody's fighting for territory. So if a nice vehicle, nice, servo vehicle rolls in to this town and this town is being run by satis and we're going to where you're not want to us, but you got to be somebody because you're in a decent vehicle, innocent bystanders have been killed. I had a friend of mine and he's going to see, he grew up doing his parents were doing missions and he was from there at this one village

and it's south of McAllen going through there. But he asked me if I could check because the family had lost contact and I reached out and the border liaison officer at the time was a friend of mine and they did some research and he'd been this one of those deals. And a vehicle couldn't explain, we're not cartel, we're not senior loa, we're not satis and it's six heads, damn six heads in the car. Do you see a lot of that? A decent, decent amount like actually seeing it looking at it,

not necessarily but the video doesn't stop for starting to come. They were starting to mimic, you know, by just, yeah, the live saw and like just slow motion, rusty blade, you can hear the

“girl that's sick, man. Did you see a lot of human trafficking down there, too? Yeah, I mean that's what,”

I mean that is smuggling, essentially. We have a huge problem with the human trafficking stuff. I get a little muddy in my head sometimes because I could take you storytelling or experience wise from the border all the way to the hotel room, right? But if it's a adult and they are choosing to be an escort, is that human trafficking over, if that's the way they are now, maybe, which is what we found a lot, or my experience were found out was they were brought in under age,

but they're other age now. Now, so they were trafficked early home and now this is all they do. But yes, they were, there were different organizations, like certain organizations had good reputations. Like, hey, if you're getting kids smuggled in, you won't die on your teddy. You won't

her because she always takes care of the kids. Everybody loves her as opposed to an organization

that just drugs up the kids with Benadrill and then everybody's rolling to the checkpoint, I'll drugged up and you don't know if they're going to get dumped or not. So I mean, it's still, I mean, it's a business model, right? You won't, somebody good. But there are some that will take the girls and push them right in the human trafficking or that endangered servitude thing. You know, we saw that a lot in, uh, Philly. On some cases I worked up there with my buddies,

um, saw in New York. You would see, like, the brothels and stuff where people got smuggled in, but now they're having to work off. So yeah, that's trafficking. But yeah, I'm in the border. That's, I mean, dope and people. Yeah. And guns, but guns usually go the other way, trade them, trade them for dip and stuff. Guns go in the other way, I mean. Yeah, so like, say we're again, say we're Texas syndicate, syndicate though, right? Our Mexican mafia, whatever.

Uh, Aryan brotherhood. Let's say we're Aryan brotherhood since we're white. I'll, I'll put us in our, her ex genre, uh, ethnicity. But say we're, uh, Aryan brotherhood and we've got weapons, but we're good at getting weapons, but we get down there and we trade the weapons for dope. I won't say that's all the time, but I mean, it happens. What, I'm just curious, you know, when you're talking about like these ransom things, is that what you call it? Yeah,

ransom extortion kidnapping. Yeah, extortion kidnapping. What's, uh, what's your success rate of recovery? As far as I'm though, once we've gotten the case, we got them. Really.

Yeah, I did not, I, I never heard of not very many times to get cooked in a barrel. I didn't

because the money was missing, but once they figured out it was they'll argue that they let the kids

go. Oh, okay. So yeah, I would say for my knowledge, and I never heard of anybody talking

in the history of McCall and where they've lost some. I'm sure it's happened, but from my knowledge now, once we got the case and we made the phone calls, we'd get them back. So what's the transfer look like? You're at the bridge? Are you at the port? And it's like, you know, here comes the car in the money. Here comes one, or probably, I don't know, whoever the person is. So now a lot of times now,

“here's the thing that a lot of times, if it was drugs, and we've got all that, we busted our tail”

to beat that person back safely. We'd be ready to interview them, as soon as they come to us, they go, I'm not telling you nothing, because they've just been threatened that they're, that even though the cartel's cutting them, the cartel's telling them, we'll kill you,

we'll kill you family, we'll kill you dogs, we'll cut your tongues out, or whatever. So they're

not going to work with us. So some may argue that we're just free to drug dealer. Now, the human traffic and stuff, I saw that as a, I mean, me personally, my personal opinion, which is the constitution, is the constitution, but my personal opinion is, yeah, those are victims. I mean, they got paid, they paid money, somebody paid money for them to come across the river, be smuggled across the river. Then they get them to a staging location, which is the stash house.

Then you got to get around the checkpoint, and from there, that's where you go off to Houston, Dallas, or wherever. But we've had cases where they're extorting the family, who's already here, they're undocumented, but they're already here, and they're extorting the family saying,

you know, we've already dumped your sister in the brush and let her left her to die,

your five-year-old daughter's sick, and we're not going to get her into medicine unless you start paying as much money. So now they're extorting that family. Now we're trying to find where the stash house is trying to rescue that five-year-old girl. Damn, man. Yeah, that was a good case. We were on that one. That was a, that was a hump. It was, I mean, it only lasted several days, but you're trying to find, you're trying to get any piece you can. And we, we eventually got it.

It was one of those, it was one of those deals where we knew that the phone that was being used by the extortion person was somewhere in a general facility. But that facility is like, let's say it's a big gas station or something. And then it's like, hey, it looks like it looks like the thing's moving, kind of thing. And then, at that same time, four different people walk out. And I'm like, oh, and I'm the collegiate agent. And I'm looking, I'm going, oh, man, lower to help me.

“And I'm looking, I'm going there by like, which one are we going with? Which one are we going with?”

And I'm just looking. And I'm going, my gut's right. Let's follow that guy. And we surveil. And then once we put that guy down, we're able to confirm that the phone was close by and we're like, got the right one. So then you got kicking the door. The, the undocumented aliens weren't there, but we knew we had the right guy because the phone that had been used to call was there. And they had ledgers. They had ledgers of, it was very, it was actually great for intelligence.

They had ledgers of names of all the organizations. So if this load came in the day, this notebook would say every person's name in the group, this illegal undocumented. And then it would have the name of the Walker, the coyote. And if I have the name of the organization, that brought them over. And the next ledger was the coyote that picked them up and who's taken them. And then after about an hour and a half interrogation, he decided to take us to the stash house. And we got the five-year-old girl back.

I have that saw some. Put her on the phone with her mom. They were home during family. We put her on the phone with her mom. She still had her little school girl outfit on. And yeah, they weren't a dry eye. All the guys, man. We were like, yeah. She was put her on the go, hey, here's your mommy. And she's talking to the man we were all like, you know. And sure is this, it's windy out here. I got some sand. I'm not crying, you cry.

Damn. You seen all this stuff going on at the border in Spain? Yeah, just for me what I'm a little bit, just don't TV. Crazy. Mass. There's a polymarket on this. There's got to be. I mean, it's a coordinated effort for somebody to let me be able to pop in.

“Well, that's what I was going to ask you. What do you think? I mean, there's a polymarket on this.”

Whether Spain will accuse Morocco facilitating the migrant surge into quota for your border experience. How can you tell when migrant when migration is organic versus deliberately encouraged by a government or a criminal network? Oh, that's a good question. We're going to have to dive in that baby and conduct a logical investigation.

It might be the government leaking it. I don't know.

Social media, news coverage, it's just so I would say that I could get it out there. Maybe let you know, but there's so much fake stuff on there now. Yeah. And I'm sorry. There's so many people that if you got a camera in a microphone, you can get you a YouTube channel. That does not mean it's the truth. Yeah, for the love of all this holy man. I mean, there's like new stuff. It looks legit. It's like we blew up this many boats today in second. When I'm looking at Fox, I'm looking at

say I'm looking at him. I'm like, I'm looking at all the main things I'm going. This would be worldwide news over. Is it am I getting into the conspiracy thing? Or are you looking at say,

“I'm in. It's just so weird now. And I think it's just going to get worse.”

What science suggests migration is being used is political leverage. Oh, man. I'd rather do this over beer when their camera's rolling.

Oh, is it? Maybe you always try to try to pin you, you know, or you can serve it or you live real.

Well, did you get anything like that with that little open board? Thanks, political. That's under under whatever regime, you know, it's because I work down there. I know that. Even during COVID, when they shut down, they shut down the checkpoints. Like I'm talking to my peers and mentors and people have been blessed to mentor. And they're like, no, there's nobody working the checkpoints. I got nobody's working the checkpoints. They're like, no, no, no, no. I wonder how long

that took me into the car to. Yeah, because of COVID. And then they start, okay, we'll work first

“shift. Oh, we're going to work two shifts, but we're not going to man third shift. That's like,”

it's literally like, answer to picnic. How long was it taking to figure out what the food's at? And there's a cognitive line going right there, right? It's the same thing. We drove one night my partner who ended up becoming an FBI agent. He was more of a trilogy at the time. We drove out the Hebbrenville because they apprehended a load from a group. We were asking about and we like, oh, it's a good opportunity. We pulled in and we're like, uh, we pulled in. We're like, we didn't

got through a checkpoint to get here. I mean, we got this like two in the morning, but I'm like, we walk in, he's portrait like his, hey, walk on this one in man. We're understaffed. It's literally like five minutes before the car tells me. If it's safe, if the road's 101, they go, everybody take one at one. It's on man right now. So even if you're working two shifts at Faulferius checkpoint, I guarantee you, you're sitting in the brush watching. All right, yep,

lots are going off. Reverse lights on. Okay, they're leaving. Let's go. Yeah. I mean, we really had no idea

“what was coming in. Yeah. But if you want to talk political, I mean, yeah, I think there's”

an argument to be made if you politicians invoke. I'm sure that's a country song out there about it. Pretty sure Charlie Daniels did it. Then they might be something to do with a long air country boy. So where do we go from here? Is this, is this where you go to FBI undercover training? Sure. Yeah, because we talked about the car telling stuff. I mean, when I came up to Tennessee as a case agent, we did a lot of the opioids stuff. We shut down four pale meals here.

But we can get into the meat now. Let's do it. Yeah, you want to go, I don't know what you want to

go first. You want to go out laws. That's a big one. The white supremacy is a big one, but murder

for hires, public corruption, go out laws. Okay. By him. Ready? Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's take a little sip of this high quality H2O. So somewhere around 2005, ish. In the FBI, let me, let me, let me start this way. I got certified as an undercover. In 2002, I finally got certified as an undercover. I had actually already done some undercover because I got transferred out of New York City to San Antonio at one of what

they call a special tender cover because I was full-time undercover and when they did the renewal, you know, at six months they're doing a renewal. They're planning out the next month. So I mean, we need this budget. We need this. And then that, they wrote Scott's full-time transfer him to this San Antonio division. So that goes back to me talking about the 9/11 systems like a fly went, but I didn't, I didn't lose my transfer. But even though I

done this undercover, I wasn't certified yet. I got specific case approval to be undercover

slot in a school and I got, and we won't give away everything about the school, but it's pretty

“well known two weeks, no days off, and we're big on sleep deprivation. I got first, that first,”

four days, five days. If there's still running out of the way we did from 2002 to 2022, it's a, it's a booty kicker. But as you know, with your training and stuff, some people say that's the hardest certification in the FBI, I say HRT. I'll say the UC

School's probably second. But HRT, he hosted Rescue Team. That's our tier one. I mean, we've got

numerous former Navy SEALs that have come into the FBI and go to HRT, Greenbrace, all kinds of spec ops. Or it could just be a former cop like me, SWAT, and you go there. That is a two week trial, sleep deprivation as well, but it's very, very physical. So really, I don't know of too many that have ever made the team on their first trial. You're just trying to get through that two week trial without getting injured. You want to complete the course, you know? But the UC School

“is more on the mind game stuff, right? I have seen people not the FBI. I would have never,”

known even though I'm not a recycling. Some people, if you take their schedule and you twist it sideways and upside down, and they don't get the same meals at the same time. They don't get the work out at the same time. They don't get the NAP or use the bathroom at the same time for a couple of days

in a row. Some people just will. Well, you know, and I've never would have, I never would have known

that and I've seen it. But that's integrity, that's good for the school. It's not hazing. I have never seen a hundred percent graduation rate. I never knew of one. Prior to me or after me or during the time I was there. And it's not a hazing thing. It's just that some people aren't cut out for undercover. Yeah. You might be the best case agent in the world. You might be the best firearms instructor in the world, the best firearms shooter. It might be not cut out for undercover work.

So I got certified. And I mean, I'm in what there's approximately 11,000 FBI agents, six hundred undercover. Something like that. What we used to say for years, the numbers fluctuate,

but it would be like out of 11,000 agents, say 600 are certified under covers. And then if you say,

out of those certified under covers and the FBI, how many of you have been the primary under cover on one? Just one. And it's going to window down. More than one less than five. It's going to dwindle down. More than five less than ten. Now we're getting down. You get to the ten and ever we probably all know each other because we're participating at the UC School. We're involved in the program. Everybody knows my big, I was a big country. We got Gator. We got, we got all kinds.

You know, but everybody starts knowing. Yeah. And then you start recruiting and using. Now this is going to be any people coming in and all people even. But for the most part, you've got this crew. And really, uh, apropos, because we're getting ready to talk about one percent of your bikers. Uh, they say that if you're an undercover and you're an enforcement, you're a one percenter. Because only one percent doesn't occur. Yeah. And, um, yeah. So I, I go to the school.

And I've got like, jump as don't like the Donnie Brasca. No shit. Yeah. That's my, that's my, I mean, he's still a friend. That's a man to a friend. Man, I call him boss, man. He's helped me a lot with all this kind of stuff since retiring. Um, but uh, you know, I was supposed to be with him and Jean, I was supposed to be with him. Uh, we were going to be teaching somewhere. But I got the Donnie Brasca. And let me tell you what I did. I went to the UC school. I was the last

one to leave. I didn't care if I slept or not. My didn't care. Man, I was so, so in it, man. So I, everybody came to tell me, I was like, you know, it's so cool. I was trying not to be a fanboy on the outside. But on the inside definitely was. But they'd kicked me out of the, they kicked me out of the drinking room. I'd be like, footing up trash. I like, kid, go, go to bed. I'm like, okay. But let me ask you about this, you know, if you're going to sit here and talk to him,

I'm going to be a sponge. So I get certified and then, uh, on paper, I'm a white guy with no foreign language. I might not jump out at a whole lot. You know, you're up landscaping, play ball, I was a cop and a balancer. Um, but you start, I start trying to network, start trying to get my name known and, and, or at least, fine work is what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to find the work. And,

“uh, I got to, uh, they finally called me and said, hey, do you want to role play at the undercover school?”

And I was like, absolutely. So, uh, when I went to role play, um, so that's just for the scenarios and not, right? Um, you're going to be an undercover. We're going to be doing live scenarios. We're, you're the student coming in and trying to do good. Learn, you know, you may die and you're doing

if they haven't seen you work undercover, they can watch you in a scenario with interact with people and maybe maybe they're a senior undercover and they're not just there to be at the school to teach and, and role play or be a counselor, they're actually there recruiting for their division because they know the cases coming up and they need somebody with your skill set. So, um, I do all that and then I used to call the unit like once a week and I go, hey, you got anything for any red

necks when they're far in language. And they, next week we go to, they'd be like, hey,

“super about such a, it's like, hey, what's going on? It's country. Country, what are you doing?”

You got anything for any red necks when they're far in language? And that's when they finally

invited me to the school, but, um, eventually, uh, you know, people started getting an army and it turns out that there was going to be, uh, uh, they had an investigation, a case going in Massachusetts on a couple of chapters of the Outlaws motorcycle club up there. Um, that's a one percent of club. And I know you've already had one percentors, former one percentors on this show, but for the listeners, uh, one percentor means that, that, that, that, that term was

calling after Vietnam, uh, a lot of, do you block your club started forming after like World War 10 stuff like that, but after Vietnam, um, should be pretty well known, everybody that, when the soldiers came back, they weren't treated that well. They weren't welcomed back. Um, a lot of them were getting into, uh, biker clubs. And we're doing some nefarious, rowdy type stuff to the point. I guess it was garnering so much attention that the president of the AMA, the American motorcycle

“association, I think, is what it was called then, came out and did this media blitz and said,”

listen, 99 percent of all motorcycle riders are good law-abiding citizens. It's only one

percent of their bad, and they took that as a badge honor, and they became one percentors. So, they had an investigation going on up there, uh, and I got, I can't remember if I got canvas in an email, I saw the canvas or somebody called me, but it was probably more of a word of mouth thing. And, uh, I talked to them and I don't know how many people they interviewed for possible undercover for the case was almost like an audition, you know, and I went up there and they picked

me. If you've been listening to the show for a while, you know this is something I care about. We've had regenerative farmers and health experts on. We've talked about soil health,

clean water, glyphosate, food security, and how disconnected, most Americans are from where their

food actually comes from. Might be time to start paying some attention. We've talked about foreign ownership of American farmland, China. We even did an episode that called out the government for selling off public lands in Utah. And when you start looking at all of it together, you realize there's a lot going on between the land, the food supply, and the people who are actually trying to

“produce real food in this country. And that's why I trust Moink. Moink was started by Lucinda,”

an eighth generation family farmer to help small, independent family farms ship high quality meat directly to your door. We're talking wild caught salmon, grass fed and grass finished beef, pasture-raised pork, grass fed lamb, and pasture-raised chicken. And this is the kind of meat you actually want to feed your family. It's antibiotic-free. They do not use growth hormones, and they do not feed GMO grains. And they're not adding solutions to the chicken or sugar

to the bacon. Moink connects you back to the source. You're not just buying meat from some giant supply chain and hoping for the best. You're supporting independent family farms that care about the land, the animals, and the quality of the food they produce. When you purchase from Moink, you're not just getting better meat for your family. You're making a real, meaningful impact on family farms all across America. Please give it a try. Join the mission to

fight for the family farm because you know what? They fight for us. Go to moinkbox.com/SRS and get free chicken wings in every box for a year as long as you're a pain customer. That's moinkbox.com/SRS. What are they looking for? I guess number one that you can go in there and hold yourself up right with that kind of crowd. I remember being peppered man in the beginning because it was like the AETF, us they have to be a state and a local. But as the case

went on I think it was just there was a DEA agent that was on our team and and then we had like

there. Everybody wants to be a part of it. If that's things still going on 30 days later a lot of

people start losing passion. A trickling off. But if it's your case, you're the case I'm going to work it. So I got up there. We were going to have a game plan. So maybe they were looking for that. It's like how would you do this? And I'm like well based on my experience. Let's say let's say you've got somebody. There are cases where you may have a source and that source can introduce me. This is my good friend Scott. Well that's good but that could be bad too. It could be bad if you

look at like a Donnie Brasco situation where Lefty is the one that brought him into the mafia. If it turns out that they think Donnie, Joe Pistone, is a snitch or fed, they're probably not going

“to tell Lefty because Lefty's the one that brought him in. But what if he came in by himself?”

And that's kind of what I said. I said look, I think I would rather go in cold. And by going in

cold, I mean I don't have a source introduced and meet nothing. I'm just going to be, let me, let me build my story and my story was that I was a site survey specialist because I could transition to that from landscape and pretty easy. I could sell it, make it look real. I could actually go to the clerk at court. I could pull records, four point survey, whatever I'm doing right. But it allows me to travel. And that was my legit reason for being in Massachusetts. But they gave me a lot

of intelligence, like there was one member, whose rugby name was Spanky. And they said that he just loved to be surrounded by big dudes and loved to be the center of attention. And they

were spot on that. And I used that to my advantage. But some other things were kind of hitting

“me as like, I ask them, I'm like, hey, we need that they hung out at this bar called Foxy Lady. Foxy”

Lady strip club. I'm not going to say gentlemen's club. But Foxy Lady, and I'm like, can they wear their cuts in there? They're leather vests for the listeners that don't know what their colors, whatever their patch is. And the answer was not, they can't. I'm like, oh man, this is going to be, I'm not being hard at all. For me, I'm just thinking of my head. I'm like, I'm going to be in a bar, other than any sounding like a redneck. I'm like, I'm going to be in a bar, having a drink,

listening to heavy metal music. I'm a tattoo dude. There's naked people running around next to a dude. Just like me, same thing. But when they all came in, they were all wearing their colors. So luckily what I did is before I ever did, before I ever was going to see the ember bump them, I went to that bar a couple of times, just to make it, just work it for hours, just going there and be me. Because human nature will exaggerate anyway. You know, the fish was this big

with the 10th time until the story. It was a well. So by the time, by the time they're coming in, and I know, because the case team cover team's telling me, all right, they're leaving the club house, looks like they're coming ever. You know, they're headed to Foxy Lady. I'm like, all right, now's my time. I'll delete the groundwork. I've got my backstory. And here it is. So when they walk in and take that whole back bar, and it's just to see a black leather and testosterone, it changes my approach

now. I mean, we're likely to walk out and go, hey, you boys ride, you know what I'm saying? Nothing. All right, I'm out. Let's start beating you up. But I had a group of people that I was already befriended or talking to at the bar, and I was telling juxton they were laughing and I could see. I could see peripheral. I could see that it was eating spanky up, like a little big laughter. How do you see spanky? He was going home every day, man. He was that big. He was that big. Well,

what he's doing is he's asking the bartender. Hey, who is that guy? Oh, that's Scott.

“He comes here all the time. He's from Texas. I think they're all the time. But she knows me, right?”

So, that's that whole your legend, your backstory. It has to be real. That's the look real. It has to pass the sniff test, right? So, eventually, it aggravates him enough to where he yells over to him and he's like, hey, where the F for you from? And I was like, some stupid joke, and he laughs, and then we're giggling and whatever. I'm like, oh man, cool man, go back over. I'm playing hard to get. And he sends a drink or calls me ever. And eventually, I go over and

I talk to him. And it's a brakadoshish, a lot of that. And he gave me some business cards. He said, hey, man, we got the North East regional coming up, the lobster fest, lobster, lobster festival. And he says, if you're going to be in town, come back, tell them you're my guide, and all this stuff. Well, there was another guy I met that night named Scott Town.

Big dude, big muscular dude. So, I remember going to the bathroom and the Foxy lady. And again,

“for listeners that don't know, especially in a guy. If you're in a bar, and you go to a guy's bathroom,”

and you walk up to the urinal, there's usually like a box of plexiglass, and it's got like ads for this dancer's coming, or don't forget clam strip for out of here or something like that, you know, car wash Sunday or whatever they got. So, I'm looking in that reflection of that glass. And this in the bathroom door swings open. And I see Scott through the reflection, and I'm watching, I'm already making those, I'm like gray, gray t-shirt, black rib, the rib,

running on his totally sleeve bout tattoo, left arm, three big ass area, and I'm going through this whole thing, and I'm watching him, and he looks at the stalls. He's looking at his stalls, and he's pushing the stalls, making sure nobody's in there. And I'm like, he starts walking towards

me, and I'm like, like, I'm going to get ready to get jumped, I think. It's very split second,

because he's clear, he makes sure there's nobody else in the bathroom. And for that split second, I thought I'd better hurry and finish and zip this thing up, because I don't want to be fighting. I don't want to be fighting with my, with my private salsa, my zipper, you know, that was something about Mary? Yeah, we got a balader. I'd be like, oh my gosh. How'd you get the main on top of the frame? Yeah. So he walks up, and I thought, man, I'm

ready to jump, I can't even, and then he's like, so where'd you say you're from? And I'm like,

“oh, I'm from McKellin. He goes, oh, I'm from me with that. He goes, I did, so you should fight”

dogs. Yeah, I was down in Brownsville, man. That's what I was going. Yeah, what else should we start talking? Oh, yeah, I grew up in South Carolina. What part? Grable. Oh, man, I was in Spartanburg. I was like, this one, I'm saying, had I been bluffing? He could have caught me right there. You need the note, right? On the funny side note, I used to say I was a landscape all the time. So here, I'm in McKellin. It's been a long time since I landscape. Even when I flew, it was Scott Payne.

I wouldn't tell anybody about what was. You know, so I'm next to a very nice elderly lady, well-dressed. We're flying from McKellin to Houston. She says, what do you do? I said, well, I'm a landscapeer. She starts questioning me so hard, so fast, peppering me. It was like, it was like I was getting knocked out. She blew my cover so bad that I literally turned to us and, man, I apologize. I lied to you. I'm actually an FBI agent. And I thought to myself,

don't everybody's that, don't tell anybody you landscape anymore. She's guilty. What about this tree? And you know, in this kind of this year, it doesn't grow and blah, blah, blah, blah, and I'm like,

“maybe I'll just go without plant and I can keep up the maintenance. Maybe that's what I've been.”

So, hey, questions me and we start to get in that week's show. So, by the time I come back for the lobster fast, I'm already getting a no Scott pretty good. And I end up going with him. And I remember walking in to again, you got to have an entrance. You go in. It was the Brockton Clubhouse, live music, all kinds of stuff, and then you're being scrutinized. I mean, every time you meet somebody new, whether this whole chapter knows you and can bounce for you, you go to the

Daytona Run, you go to the Sturgis Run, you go to another clubhouse, and you, this close, you got a present going. Who's the emphasis? And how did he end up in Massachusetts? So, whatever you say on day one, it could be two years from now, it'd better match. Yeah. So, you're planting that seed and you need to know it. So, as the case went on, I meet the president of the chapter Joe dogs and they had an enforcer there and then close line. That's their street

names, their road names. But through the case, it starts coming out that I'm a criminal to shocker. And we started kind of light. They're already predicated. And that's a big thing. People are like, "Well, how can you do?" Like, if the dudes already, we've already worked the case. We know they're selling dope. We've documented they're selling dope. Well, I can go up to you and talk to you

about dope. But if I've never met you before and all of a sudden, we think we're going to make you a

target and, hey, you may give you a kilo of cocaine for free. Well, maybe you're broke. Maybe the last, now we're going to some entrapment stuff, right? But if you're predicated and you've already, we've already shown that you do this kind of stuff, then we're good for the most part to get the case going, right? And start the investigation. So, I started laying out this legend that I was a high ranking member or if not the leader of an international theft ring. So, I knew because I was

on the border and I worked with Texas DPS, Border Patrol, even for my own insurance. I know that, well, I said earlier, a four by four V8 and harder days was still in all the time, all the time.

Joe dogs with me one night and we go out and he sees me, he made a truck driver. He sees me pay the

“cash to the truck driver. He sees me with what would appear to be a truckload of stolen equipment.”

And I saw how I portrayed as such. I even gave him some, you know? And then he's like, oh man, you make a pretty good lick on that and I'm like, yeah, not too bad. He gets all I saw was power tools. I said exactly. Just let him wander. Just let him wander. So, then it becomes to where this insurance is from. And that's where we started really starting to do some stuff. They would report their motorcycle stolen. They get their insurance money. I would buy that motorcycle that

is stolen price from them, which is usually 20 to 25% of actual cost. And then that happens,

nobody goes to jail, built us some trust. Then it's, hey, when you come in backtex, they make

many techs. When you come in backtex, I'm like, I don't know, many a couple of weeks. I can be up there why what you got. I got some things lined up. Okay, what you got? I mean, and then we got to where

“I'd come in the town. And they would have like F350s, 2500 daisels. And we're loading them on the”

semis. And then it keeps going. And I'm gaining more and more trust with that kind of stuff. But now also on the side, there's a lot of grenade and rocket launcher, whatever, talk, and fully automatic weapon talk. Some things come to fruition, some things don't. But the biker war still going on during this stuff. And then you just had a former Hells Angelone, that was, that was the arch robbles

of the all laws in vice versa. Boston and North was Hells Angel territory. Boston's south

was outlaw territory till about Cape Cod. What the all laws were trying to do is they wanted to set up a new chapter in Cape Cod, but they needed to stack it with big, what they were saying, big jackdags, they could protect themselves and fight for the club. And they were trying to recruit me and Scott for that, because Scott was a big dude. And I guess they thought I was big at that time. And they were trying to recruit us to become outlaws and would be a part of that Cape Cod chapter

to fight the Hells Angels. And there's all kinds of inner gangstep that goes on like Scottyman had one. You go beat the colors off of a Hells Angel. So when you go do your criminal activity, you wear the Hells Angels cut to make it look like the Hells Angels are doing it, not the outlaws. God. If you go retaliate against another club and you wear in that Hells Angel cut, stuff like that happens. Gotcha. So let me see where I'm at in the story. All right.

So now I'm getting a more more trust. But during this, we've got during the two years, there was a two year case. But during the two years, we had a Hells Angel president murdered. I don't know if they ever proved it was outlaws. If we were to say in the case pretty good, we could we could have wrapped up a lot more people. But that's up to the U.S. Attorney's Office, not me. But we didn't know that it was bridge for Connecticut. And we do know that the shooters

were in a grain truck with Florida plates. We also knew that Hells, I mean that outlaws from Florida were up in the area, because they were staying with my crew. And when that happened now, the case team was doing wire taps. I'm over there. I'm calling. I'm dirty in it up. I'm talking

“to them. Like, hey, what's going on? Man, it's hot here. Right now, if you come, you need to be”

you need to be packing and be at a vest. I go, I don't want to travel that shit. If I get there, where you throw me something like, yeah, cool. And you're getting that entail with God. The, it might have been retaliation for that, but Sturgis, they called it, hey, all outlaws were going to Sturgis, get your shit and go. And we all went out to Sturgis the day I got there. Two outlaws. I'm sorry. Two Hells Angels. I think from Canada, shot five outlaws at Point Blank range

in any gas station. I think it was a gas station, but it was like two, two old ladies, a prospect of thinking, two patch members. And there were some serious wounds, like paralyzed from the waist down. You know, that's one of those really case teams like going out there. I'm like, I'm not going out there wearing their outlaws, though. You know, I got enough holes. So all that's going on during this case, well, I'm building trust. And now it gets to where, hey,

Tex, we car Jackson body. Now they're coming to me after taking a vehicle at Gunpoint from somebody. That's a, that's a serious charge. And they're telling me we need to get rid of this thing. It is hot. I said, I got it. Now they're trusting my truck drivers, truck driver pulls up. We put it on there. I said, don't worry about whether it was on star or low jack, whatever it was back then. I say, my guys will take care of it. And that's what started happening more and more. And we were

intelligence that they've been doing home invasions, almost killed a guy, things like that,

extortion definitely run in dope. But if you look at the taunt and chapter, that's the main one I infiltrated, taunt and brought in a right next to each other. But the taunt and chapter really

“out of like 13 to 15 guys, I think like one and a half had a job. I mean, as far as on the one had”

a telling company, the album was a tattoo or some piercer. And I don't think he worked all the time. Pretty much everybody else, at least the ones I dealt with, their straight thugs, no job, just my criminal means making your money. Whether that's break-ins, diamond one of them said, you don't ever show up without your dees money. You got to pay your dees. I don't care if he's like, I don't care if I'm all way here. I don't have my money. And I see an old lady walking

on the street, I'll go over there and knock her out and take her purse, you know, so I can pay my dees. And I'm like, man, I keep talking. So all that's going on, I'm gaining more trust. But one of the main things that's happening is me and Scott Town are bonding. We are bonding, like, it is insane. I mean out of any case I've ever done and 28 years of law enforcement,

never bonded this time with somebody. I mean, we finish each other's cynicism. We love pretty much the

same stuff. I mean, fighting, drinking, lifting, tattoos, motorcycles, having a good time, you know. Literally, it's that story of the proverbial fork in the road. Like, I think, at that proverbial fork in the road, he went that way and I went that way. I easily could have gone that way. That could easily be me. And I was raised good. He liked it. Yeah, but I mean, I'm like that could

“easily be me. I could have made one wrong choice and went that way. Maybe that's why I was good.”

At least the groups that I infiltrated, you know, that's my skill set, you know, me. But it gets to a point to where if the case team was worried about my safety, that'd be like, hey,

you can't put it in the operations plan. You know, you can't put it in FBI operations plan.

Scott Towns. It's going to be there tonight. You can't do that because he's a target. But they would ask, this is a big Scotty going out with you. Oh, yeah, he's going to be there and everybody be like, cool, cool. You see, they need how much he loves me. And I loved him. You know, don't get me wrong. I'm not going to the dark side. I'm not leaving the FBI and becoming a turncoat or whatever, but I am human. And you're looking at this dude and you're like, man, he told me he goes,

man, he was patch, he was patching in and he was also working with a mafia. And somebody got snagged on something and he said he was looking at time. And he said he backed away from it because he got four daughters at that time. And he didn't want anybody. He didn't want to go to prison. And you hear that and I'm befriended this dude. But I know if I'm in a clubhouse or I need back up, there could be three SWAT teams outside of that door. I can show you all kinds of videos where

bad guy walks in and eight shots are shot before that door and I'll even turn. You know, so if you think, if the only reason you're doing them to cover is because you're like, well, I know I got three SWAT teams outside. I'd say that's the wrong reason. Because if the crap is the fan, it's really on you. You know, when a lot of times they might just be the avenging your death, you know. But if Scott was there, I felt comfortable too. Because I

I trusted him that much. I knew he'd have my back. He didn't know who Scott Payne was, but he loves Scott Callaway. And Scott Callaway was not too far from who I am in real life. But we're bonding. And there's one point in the case. And I'm like, I'm rocking his daughter. And at that time, his youngest daughter was one. And my youngest daughter was one. So if you've been around kids, that developmental stage, they kind of moved the same, make the same noise as so. It's easy for me to

pitch your my daughter. Well, I'm rocking his daughter. And I'm like, man, it's going through my head. I really like this guy. It sucks. Because a lot of people, you ask them what undercover is. And some people will be like, well, you're pretending to be something you're not. You're lying. And you're acting. The true definition of undercover work is you're creating relationships that

“you're going to betray. And it sucks. If you look at it that way, you have to figure out how”

you're going to do that and rationalize it in your mind. So it doesn't have an adverse impact on your psyche. So whatever, whatever you got to do, you know, I don't know, taste their own. But as I'm rocking his daughter, I'm like, man, he likes this. I like that. He likes this. I like that.

And again, I saw like I'm having doubts like I'm on the turn of dark. I'm going to be a 1% or

but I'm looking at his refrigerator. His refrigerator had all kind of magnets and stickers and stuff on it. And my eyes fucking stand. And already said, I'm a believer. I'm a cries follower.

“But you see the bands a lot of times in the Christian community, WWJD. What would Jesus do?”

WWJD? What would Jesus do? And I look on the refrigerator. And I see WWS day. And I'll focus and I'm like, what would Satan day? And I was like, we know, like, you want to jail. I'm back. I'm back. But yeah, I think he was just, I think he was doing it the bus chops there. But I was like, Satan. Well, I don't think so, buddy. Then days are over. I left that back in Greenville, South Carolina. I want to watch the church on Sunday morning, sweating, reagan of beer. But as the case went on,

we were really, really tight. And so the case is growing. It's a year and a half now. Year and a half in. And I would say at this point, my closest relationship is Scott Town.

My second closest relationship is close line. The enforcer. My third is Joe dogs the president and then

trickles on down. I've now been all over the place. And we've gone, I can't remember if mine.

“He was, I mean, if they told him it was before that or not, but I know it's terrible.”

We've done all kinds of stuff. So it was time to up the ante. Told you they're already predicated for the first time. I talked to Joe dogs. And he said, where are you from? I said, McCallan, he says, where's that? I get Texas on the borders, like the border. Next question. How much can you get to keep a little cocaine for? I was like, it goes for about 13 right now down there. He goes, man, if I can get them for 13, I get them. You don't get them for 13 up here.

It calls more up here because they have to be brought from the border up here. You want to come down there.

You might be able to get them for 13. But so now I start laying out this because we've done all this stuff. They've seen my operations. They've seen, you know, they've invited me into these stuff. They're asking me to become an outlaw. I'm in their clubhouse all the time. And I said,

“like, as they're going trips with them. And now we're up in the ante. Now I lay out this elaborate”

story that takes time. But essentially what they end up learning is that I did used to be in the duck game. And I got out because they popped people in my group and the heat was getting too close. I've already explained everything about me moving stuff south. They think I'm taking all this stolen equipment south. Well, I've only, I've only stated what's true. Like, if if if your name goes for this much here, it goes for this much in Mexico. I'm working with all this cars. If the

truck, if a semi truck is headed south, a lot of times if law enforcement is looking for money going south. Money are guns like we talked about earlier. But if it was a truck full of stolen vehicles, I played it off to the outlaws like, so what's the big deal? Maybe you see the truck. Maybe you see the vehicles. But if it's a valid bill of laden, how's the truck driver's person? He's just picking up cars. He looked at me. You're going to take him to jail. Played it like that. But I did let

them know that I used to be in the duck game. And they know I got truck drivers. They know I deal with the car tail. Or they believe this. Anyway, and I explained to them, in case anybody was wondering how come the green guy has not been booted out of this Mexican really, mainly Mexican operation. And my story was, is that I was the guy who had the dirty contacts at the checkpoints and the poor entry. Because there is corruption. Yes, it's going to have to be our work public

corruption. And down there, you would get, you would get the Border Patrol agent who gets 15 grand to do this. 10 to 15 grand a good next. I mean, if you're hurting for money, yeah, and you're vulnerable and you are hurting a lot down there. I don't say a lot, because I want to say, I'm going to make a sound like everybody's dirty. But yeah, corruption isn't issue. Yeah. And even the small department, like what if you're two, three-man department, and you make 40 grand a year, maybe some of

your family members. If you grew up, there's some of your family members might be working with the cartel. It's just, yeah, it's a different, it's different. It's different. And when you're working with the cartel, they value life. They don't value life like we value life. I tell them, I'm not getting cut out because I'm the one that does that. That's all based on facts. So I can sell it, make it look real. So now I'm laying out that I'm, I was in the dead game. And I'm

letting it because again, Joe dogs and several of them from day one, year and a half straight,

on the phone with them, whatever. Maybe I come down and meet somebody because as a drug dealer,

what do you want? You want the purest stuff you can get for the cheapest price you can get it at. That way, you can step on it. Mix it up, double your money. Maybe triple your money. So as I'm laying this out, the breadcrum, so to speak, Joe jumps, starts picking up on it. Next thing you know, we've got a full-blown plan to wear. He's going to get a chance to meet my cartel guy because we've got a dope load coming up. My truck drivers are driving it. We're going to

take a dope load and we're going to meet a cartel coming from Canada. I laid out the story that I wasn't letting them drive into Canada because they lost their, they lost their inside person

“at the port of entry and I wasn't going to risk my guys going to jail. But if you want to come to the”

US and that's kind of way to play it out. Techniques been used to get a bit matter of fact. As I'm

laying all this out, the name I mentioned earlier, Jack Garcia, he had been doing, I didn't know it. He'd been doing a public eruption case and somehow Boston was involved, even though he was down in the Fort Lauderdale area, but it was all over the news, drug protection, drug protection, FBI staying drug protection and I'm like, oh, shit. That's what I'm trying to do. You know, and I'm like, so every time I tried to word it shown, I would try to not use the words drug

and protection. I'd be like security. Make sure you're doesn't get ripped kind of thing. But we up the ante and they believed that they were going to get a chance to meet my cartel member and

we laid it all out. So other undercover's came in and to help me, much as I've helped other

undercover's on their cases and stuff. And they didn't know it, but we had a thousand pounds of real weed and 40 kilos of real cocaine. Now, that means the SWAT team's going to be set up. There's going to be sniper's in place watching this whole deal go down because can you imagine if 40 kilos walked out in the street that was our responsibility and one person got hurt off of one gram. That's our fault. Yeah, right. So at this point, Scott and I are like connected at the

hip and it's the night before the operation. And again, a year and a half in and we've been laying all this out and the FBI, I'm sorry, the United States Attorney's Office was asking me the Assistant United States Attorney, Peter Levitt, he said, hey, Scott, are they talking about this stuff in the clubhouse? And I said, yeah, I mean, he says, make sure if you can, make sure we can get that on recording because I mean, if they're in the clubhouse talking about this drug protection and what

roles are going to be, it just helps with like asset forfeiture and search warms and stuff like that.

“So, of course, I said, yeah, I'm like, yeah, that's what we do. I'm going in to get the evidence.”

So Joe dogs, it told me, come over, but it was the night they have church and for those that don't know, a lot of your 1% of a lot of your clubs period have a mandatory meeting once a week they refer to it as church. Some clubs, that's where they hide their phones, cut everything on airplane mode, go in, talk dirty business, some is just shootin' the bull. But he calls me over and it's the night they're having church. So I get to the clubhouse and I'm not going to the door, I'm not going to the door, I'm not

going to the door. He's not coming, I'm not going to the hell. Heems the door like, hey, what is, we're not ready yet. So I'm kind of being a smart ass. I'm like, well, then why don't you tell me to come over here, you know? So, he says, hey, take this pro bank, somebody's on probation trying to become a full pass member. He says, y'all go get somebody and come back. So I'm like, all right, so go get somebody a drink or two, come back and we're going to clubhouse. Well, when we're going to

clubhouse, for those that don't know, at least in this clubhouse, if you're not a patch member, you can't touch the door, you can't answer the phone. They respect me, they let me in there all the time, they give me drinks for free, but that's the rules. And the door is a still frame, it's going, of course, it's got dead bolts and locks on it, but they had taken, they had welded two metal hooks onto the frame and laid like a metal bar across it, kind of like a shipyard bar,

“you know, some from a breach or standpoint, it'd be a little bit of a tougher breach, right?”

Maybe it's better to breach around the door than through the door depending on what kind of tools and stuff you have. So I'm in there and I'm cracking jokes. What you can't see is, I've got, I've got audio and video recording device, I've got audio recording device, I've got a kind of thing that's on me. But somewhere in my clothing is one of the devices and what you can't see is like, I'm at the bar and my body's facing this way, but I'm like looking right here.

So I can't see what my camera's seen, but after everything was over and I got to go back and

I'm like, hey, man, you know, I'm because I'm a jokes, there's like, yeah, there's like,

“we're laughing left and when I would turn, stone face, I didn't see it, because I was looking,”

but you see, you see him, like, if you see him like, ah, that's funny too, that's funny. I didn't see it. I didn't pick up on it. Yeah, um, you got, you got a song by Leonard Skinner playing over the loudspeaker. And then the back, you got chocolate, that's gotten doing this. And it first, you're like, oh, he's dancing. Now he's not dancing. He's warming up. He's doing it to the beat of the song, but he's warming up. And then, uh, about that time, close line,

my second closest friend at the time. And in the case anyway, um, connection, I should probably say, uh, he says, hey, Tex, can I talk to you for a minute? I'd been in that club house

so many times. There's one door I never went in. I don't know what was behind that door.

And he says, can I talk to you for a minute? And I'm like, yeah, and as he's turning, he turns and opens the door. I'm right behind him. Chocolate sky comes in right behind me. And I get,

“ooh, that's not normal. And it's a tight stairwell. You go down to, I think the book, the book says”

it's a basement. That's being really, really generous. More like a crawlspace. I mean, I couldn't stand up straight. Probably touch the wall on both sides, but you know, like a bench and stuff down there. And I think there was even a bedroom under there, like the basement area, but so I get down there. And I'm freaking out right now because I'm like, this is not good. This is not good at all. And one of the other outlaws comes down and I see him. I see him doing this. Like,

there was something I saw a rope. I didn't see plastic on the floor, which I was looking for. And for listeners, it may not know. And this type of world of environment, if you walk in, kind of mafia style, and you see plastic all over the floor, that's probably not a good sound for you. Because the whole idea is they kill you and these grab the four cylinders and pick it up and they blood to clean up. So I saw rope. I didn't see plastic. And I hear him say, hey, let's go back

upstairs for a minute. He's got to do something. I don't know what it was down there that that other member was trying to hide or get rid of. I don't know if it was dope weapons, what I'm not sure, but then they bring me back down. So I'm upstairs. And some people are like, why don't you try to leave? Like, I don't know. I mean, could I have gotten out the door? Yeah, I don't know. 12 outlaws or so. After their church meeting, um, so I'm looking at Joe dogs and I'm burning holes through

because Joe dogs is the president and he controls that whole club house. And when he finally

looks at me, I'll say something like, what's up? And he says something like, I don't worry about it. And then looks away. So then they come and they tell me back now. Now they go down. They've already brandished their weapons. They've brandished their weapons when they sent me down the first time. They've both got pistols, um, pretty much, you're not free to leave, right? And yeah, yeah, I know there's another reason not to rush for the door. So I go down and that's when close

line says, look, there's a lot of shit going on. It's my job to take care of my brother because he's the enforcer. He says, I need you to write down your full name, your full name, your date of birth, your social, your dress, life's name. He said, I'm not going to ask for your kids' names. Not like I can't find it, but I'm not going to ask for it. And he says, and then he just take all your clothes off. I've got to check you for a while. You're not, and I was like, son of a, but calls of the stress level.

The O shit moment, the O crap moment, adrenaline dump, whatever you want to call it.

“For those that don't know, you, I think most adults have experienced it, even if it's in a car wreck.”

Everything slows down and goes to slow motion. You get auditory exclusion. Everything you hear, sounds like you underwater, it's going to wash, wash, but it's slow, scar, take off. And then you get time dialation in your eyes. Everything's clicking in screen grabs, tight smooth. You can feel your heart beating through your whole body. My hamstrings get rubbery. You know, yeah, yeah, you have other parts with your body. You feel like you're right here, you throw other parts of your body that are

squeezing and clenching. Yeah. I'm like, did you hear that? Did you hear that sound? That was me. I stuck in the air out of the room. That's it, because I was like, oh, no. But because of that,

and the stress, I forgot my middle name. So, technically, we always talk about bleed on the

range so you don't die on the street. We're working reps, working reps, working reps, so it becomes instinctive. Some people say muscle memory, I like to say you train to it becomes instinctive. I can show you video after video. I'm sure you can show me military,

that they did an effective magazine exchange. They have no idea they did behind cover, but they did it, because they've been training it. So, in the undercutter world, you got to do a lot of that in your head. What ifs? Or go roleplay at the school, or try to get some reps in somehow? So, I'm looking down with that thing, and I'm going to Scott Callaway, Scott Callaway, and I'm just going through this roller decks in my brain. It feels like it's forever. But it's not. I'm having that adrenaline

up. I'm going to Scott Callaway. Scott, Joseph Callaway, I'm like, no, that was a middle name of the first alias in '96. I'm like, I'm going through it. While I'm doing that, I turn. I know

I did. I would have never believed it, and I feel like I'm not seeing the recording. I turned

and I go, and what else do you need? Although it's not that clear, because I'm having a

“crap moment, and I think I'm getting ready to get call. It's more like, and what else do you”

need? With a higher pitch voice on the roadsideer? Yes, like, should I ask what's going on? And then I hear them yell up to the pro-bait. What do you need for that website? And I go, oh, okay, now they're going to search me. They're going to Google me. There's some websites back then, like who's a rat.com, maybe they can cross reference and make sure I'm not a fed or a snitch, and then I remember my initials. And I was like, oh, okay, and I write down my name.

Well, now I turn around and I take off on my laptop. I take my boots off. I take all my upper body

clothing off, and I drop my jeans and underwear around my ankles. So for my ankles up, birthday suit, completely naked. And they check me for a wire. Um, didn't really check too hard around my feet. But check me. And I'm like, again, that adrenaline up. I'm still down here. Now, I'm coming out of that adrenaline up. And I'm feeling better because he's like, okay, he's not fine. He's like, he's cool. Okay, hey, can you hug me? You know, I'm now cracking a joke. Can you hug me? But it's

a defense mechanism too. And I'm scared. I'm scared, jealous. And, uh, okay. And he says, he says,

“yeah, and I think I'm good. I'm pulling my pants back up. I don't think I got my boots on yet,”

but then he grabs a piece of clothing. And that piece of clothing had recording device in it. And I thought I was done because my voice is coming back. You can hear me like starting to talk normal. Breathens a little better. And then he says, hey, I'm not going to find anything in here. I don't want to, right? Like some pictures of my old lady. And he laughs. And he goes, my laugh is like, I'm not. I'm standing there on the wall. He can't stand up straight. And I'm

watching him take this piece of clothing. And he's going down with his hands. And I'm like, he's going to feel it. Even though I got a thicker leather, even though I got this, I did out of did this, trying to put stuff somewhere. He's going to feel it. And, uh, as he's getting close again, I don't know. I do it. You can hear the recording there. I got it. That's it. I don't even know what I'm doing. But I'm just watching my life. I'm like,

here we go. I don't know what I'm going to do. I mean, I can't even stand up straight. If I try to fight, I'm probably going to do a Tommy boy, crack my head on a joist and knock myself out anyway. But, um, he looks right at it and misses it. Are you serious? Yeah, I write at it, misses it. And then, and then we're done. And I'm like, oh, thank you, sweet baby Jesus, you know. And then I'll just start talking business. Now that night, um, I was running on adrenaline. You know, I was pissed. I shouldn't be pissed

“because I'm really not sky-calorie. I'm really sky-paying on the cover of the age, but I think”

that shit personal. I'm like, you'd be my boy for a year and a half, but you got enough balls to take me down the basement, strip me at gunpoint. Fair enough, I am an undercover. But, uh, you know, uh, so I went out and a lot of people asked me since I've been, I've been teaching this since like 2008, um, this whole outlaw thing. And I get asked a lot, they're like, man, what would you said if he would have felt something? And I said, well, I only had two answers. And I remember,

like I was yesterday, my first one probably went a bit of joke because he gave me that line. He's

like, hey, nice and pictures of my old lady, right? If he would have said, what is this, I'd have been like, I don't know, some pictures of the old lady just to try to buy some time, get him off, you know, um, but the only other answer I have is this. The gig is up. I'm an undercover FBI agent. I can walk out of here and we can see each other in court or all hell's getting ready to break loose. Problem is this, to my knowledge, every time I've been in that clubhouse, my team couldn't hear me.

Whether it's walls, equipment, distance, I didn't even, but I would have been a bluff on my part. But that night, when I went to hand in my stuff at the end of the night, when the shifts

gave me more money for the next day. We do a quick debrief about what went down. Um, that night,

“when I rolled up, uh, I found out that they had heard everything. The two task force officers”

that were on the main case team, uh, one's a sergeant, uh, as retiring now, but sergeant hanging about them out of met Massachusetts State Troopers, everybody called him Higgy, and then he got Detective Joe Cummins from Brockton PD. They started the shift on me.

Whatever that first interaction between me and Joe dogs was, it made them think something

wasn't right. And what they, the way they told me is they had pulled close enough, and they heard everything. And they heard me in the basement, and they went ahead and vest it up, strapped up. They called back to the office, Boston, and said, you know, whoever was available, man, they got him in the basement and they're stripping, and he's wired to the hill. And, uh, yeah, sure. So they tell me that they were all, everybody was kind of blue lights and siren.

And, and the plan was that the task force officers came up with, excuse me, was they had been in that clubhouse on law enforcement activity before. So they kind of needed the door. Um, they were going to drive the van into the center block wall right next to the door. If they felt like it was time to pull the trigger, um, but even though my voice was clearly different than they had heard it, they could tell I was scared, but I didn't break and they didn't

“pull the trigger and we lived to find another day. But you guys didn't have a code word or anything?”

Yeah, you can, but if they can't hear me, I mean, mine is, you know, I keep it simple, man. It's like, you know, I'd go on with so many things and they're like, hey, uh, you got a code word. I go, yeah, if I yell, help multiple times in a row, all right, that's my code word. How about your physical code? You ever single-team? If I look like William Defoe running across the field, that's my, that's my physical side, but uh, they just, they were listening. And, and there's so many things

that goes into that kind of training too. You can say, all right, uh, to give us a signal, pick your

head up, scratch your head, never done it in your entire life. As soon as you start talking to the

bad guy, you pick it up, scratch your head, you know, everybody comes. But another thing, uh, the case agent was a buddy of mine. Uh, we were in the academy together, uh, his new agents. And he told me he said, he said, it's gotten. He said, man, when I was coming down that highway with blue lights on, they said, man, I felt like I was in there with you. I said, you weren't. I said, man, I was looking for a friendly face anywhere down there. Uh, and then there's a comic, well, I'll finish the comic

apart. I try to tell this, this is a kind of a sad part, but, um, or touchy. Um, at that point in my life, my daughter for three and one, I bought my wife was commonly referred to now as a burner phone, then come back to anything that way I could call her from my undercover phone. Um, and, no matter what time it was, I would call her. The files on my way back to the hotel room, four in the morning, seven in the morning, didn't matter. Usually it's real quick. Just once you

know, I'm okay, head back to the hotel room, I'll call you when I wake up this afternoon. Okay,

sometimes we chat a little bit. That night when I called her, the first thing she said was,

"Are you okay?" The night of the basement. And I said, "Yeah, why?" And she said, "I don't know, but in Macallon driving around tonight at such and such time," she goes, "I just got this. She was having the girls. She was running errands or something. She said, "I got this overwhelming feeling of fear. For me, and she pulled everyone this other road and started praying for me." So I matched it up, and it was when I was in the basement. Holy shit, man. Pretty wild.

Birdie wild. I can't believe I got the easily I cried when I tell that story. Sometimes with it, sometimes I don't. But yeah, your daughters were three and one. Yeah. Were you thinking about them down there? In the basement, I was probably more survived, I don't think I was, I don't think it was one of those things where I see my family flash before my eyes. I'm more like trying not to vapour a lot,

keep talking, keep listening, try to get some intelligence, keep, keep moving, driving, but get out of this thing. A lot of guys think getting healthier means adding more and more things to the routine. More supplements, more tracking, more protocols, more complicated systems. But the older I get, the more I think it comes down to getting the fundamentals right in supporting

“your body at the source. And that's why I've been using Armora Colostrum. Armora Colostrum is a”

bioactive whole food with over 400 bioactive nutrients that help support God health, strengthen immune health, fuel performance, and support overall vitality. Colostrum works at the cellular level, so you're supporting the systems your body already relies on every day. I've been using Armora Colostrum and I've noticed a difference in how I feel overall, especially with recovery and feeling stronger through demanding weeks. It's pure,

I'm putting into my body every day. And I wanted to come from a brand that takes the science

seriously. We've worked out a special offer for my audience. Receive 30% off your first subscription order.

Go to armora.com/sRS or enter SRS to get 30% off your first subscription order. That's ARMRA.com/SRS. So you didn't think that you were 100% dead? No. No, but I was scared shitless.

“And that's what he was saying. Well, what would have happened if they found it? I don't know.”

Probably an ass whipping and a minimum. I don't know. They shot me or not. Who knows? My fear would have killed me. You know? They would have shot me in the pieces, but so I tell you this though. I start building that block of instruction, because it was it was my mentors. They would call me after all this stuff happened. They're like, hey, country, as soon as you can, take care of yourself. You know, put pin to paper about what you've

learned to this whole thing, because that's how we pay it forward. And I was always been an instructor

county anyway, so I did, and I loved it. But the entire time, I didn't, I mean, I watched that video over and over and over and over and over and over and I'd get butterflies and all this stuff. And then finally, after time passes, you can watch it when they're problem. But it hit me. What song was play in the entire time? I was in that clubhouse. It was give me three steps by Leonard Skinner. The whole premise of the song is a dude that sent a bad spot and he's trying to get out.

Give me three steps. Give me three steps. Mr. Give me three steps towards the door. Give me three steps. Give me three steps. Mr. You never see me anymore. There's even a part in the song. He's like, he was lean, mean, big and bad lord. You know, he's staring down to the barrel. I mean, all this stuff. And I started thinking, I was like, it's kind of synchronized. Yeah, I was like, I was like, I was like, man, what's fans in trying to send me a message from the grave, you know? And then

with my stupid sense of humor, I'm like, I said, I'll probably have their praying going Lord. If I'm not supposed to go in this clubhouse a lot of you'll just send me a sign. Won't you give me three? As a hey, can you turn that down? I'm trying to talk to Jesus right now. That's it. Lord, I apologize. These people, okay. Yeah. So we lived to find another day, man. The next day, I got up. I didn't sleep. If I slept, it's probably like 30 minutes.

Got up and went to do the deal. They showed up. And we did it. And I paid everybody. And it went off nice and smooth. And we counted for all our dope. And then we were still off to the races. Yeah. And now all stuff. So then as we're culminating towards the end of the case, by this time, I had befriended several people in the Florida area and stuff like that as well.

Won't ever take it or name Hillbilly. And as far as I know Hillbilly was like the first hammer

scan skinhead ever becoming outlaw. And Hillbilly, we hit it off. I still don't know the connection between Totten and that Massachusetts area and the Florida. But I don't know if somebody went down there and stayed. I don't know what the pipeline was. But I'd met him up in Massachusetts. So we're going down the day, Tottenham, to do the world run. And by the time we get there,

“this is how this story ends. I was as obvious. I remember my M.O. like, hey, don't let the”

bosses. Don't give them a reason to say no. Work harder. Try to outwork everybody. Well, it was starting to be a moment detriment. I would go on an undercover on through the weekend. But I would come back and I wouldn't take any days off because I didn't want management getting mad at me for being going on the undercover. And then I just this vicious cycle started snowballing. And it got to the point that at the end of a three-year period, I was a walk in zombie. I was

only on a histamine to the congestions and halers. I was taking a fedron, drinking a bunch of coffee. I mean, I drank a pot of coffee and fall asleep. That's not me. I was exhausted. And we have something in the FBI called safeguard. It's a psychological assessment unit. It's under the umbrella of the undercover program. But it gets you used for other things, too. Like, if you work in its images, you get a safeguard that does your assessment. But if you're an active undercover in the

“FBI, you have to get assessed. And they kind of assess you into a case through the case and how”

to the case. They'll be all post. Like, okay, how did that end kind of thing? And generally, the way it goes is you go in and take a bunch of tests. A lot of them were tested. Most businesses give their people anyway. But it's psychological questions and stuff. And then you go in and sit down with a psychologist, certified or licensed. And then they may be an FBI agent.

Maybe like a jumping stone who helped create the safeguard unit anyway. It was him and another guy

“that created that whole thing. But then you sit down with him. Kind of like that. You can't”

bullshit a bullshit or thing. So you can't you see a UC. We use undercover. UC is a verb. And then they'll follow up with questions. Like, how's this? How's your office supporting? What's your wife thinking? You know, things like that. So one of the tests is open into sentences. So they might say, women are and you got to finish it. Men are you got to finish it? My badge and gun are, my mom is, my dad is. One of them was the last time I relaxed I. And I went and did an assessment

right before I went to Daytona. And I'm in there. And like I said, by this time I was on me. And just self-medicating, I guess. And I got to that one where it says the last time I relaxed I. And I'm

typing. And I look. And my mom went blank. I literally couldn't think of anything. I know it sounds

dumb. It sounds dumb. He's saying there I know. But I cannot think of one thing I did to relax. And I was like, well, I work out. And I go, yeah, but it's not like I'm doing the Maste and listening to Yani and trickling water. I'm throwing iron. You know, I'm like, that's

“good for you. It's good for you in Dorfins, but I don't know if that's relaxing. And I remember thinking,”

man, that is messed up. Did you can't think of any way to relax? And then I made up a story. I didn't know I was already done. So I get the Daytona. I go out with the outlaws. I partying by this time Hillbilly sees me. Calls me and backs me up to the front of the clubhouse, walks me in. I'm not a patch member. Walks me in. Guess whatever drinks I want. It goes,

cares me out to the back with a tenid area, which is my understanding that that clubhouse only

patch members should be there. But he brought me out back. We didn't know it. But he had become the reach south east regional president. He eventually became the national president. But, um, and they were, we were standing out back. And that was, it was, it was very crappy code. But mentioned something about because one out all wanted to kill a Hills Angel. And he was upset. And he wanted to retaliate right now. And it was like, hey, don't do it right now. They're expecting it.

You see how long I had to wait to do that thing up north. Something like that. And I'm like, oh, see, talking about the murder. You know, so I go back that night and I'd be brief everything to the case teams from Jacksonville, Florida, FBI, and Boston. And the way it was worth it to me was, man, they've had people in and around Hillbilly. He didn't talk like that to any of them. Boston, where's your case at? We're pretty much got everything we want. Let's talk to these.

“You have to turn these office and headquarters. But what if we don't take Boston down yet,”

Scott, you come down to Florida and try to patch under Hillbilly. And of course, I said, yes, I was absolutely, but I didn't know I was already done because I got up the next morning. You know, if you've ever done it, especially in the younger years, uh, you wake up. You can hear and feel the whiskey switching in your belly, you know, with the egg still there from Waffle House five before. And I got up and I said, man, I feel like a fat piece of trauma. I said, I'm going to,

I started doing a workout in the ring. Something P90X-ish. So like, you know, pushups, mountain climbers, squats, burpees, which I suck at, because I got a lumbar fusion. I don't really bend that well. But I was doing all that and I came up for air and it wasn't there. And because of the stress and everything that I was, so how worn out I was, I didn't realize that for months, I only been chest breathing. I was so stressed. I wouldn't even expect my belly. I was breathing

all right here, which is going to, it's not good for you anyway. But before I started that workout, I woke up. I did the inhaler. I'll be at her all. That's the vacio dial later. Uh, sorry, a bronchi dial dial later. Uh, I did Anna histamine's beacon gestants. I took three hydroxy cuts, which is a feathering and drank two cups of coffee. Well, I later learned at least from what the doctor told me that that is a cocktail for an anxiety attack. I said, that was just trying to wake up.

But, uh, yeah, so I have a ventilator. I forget all about combat breathing, box breathing. I forget about paper bags and, uh, I'm just that worn out. And, uh, the truck driver under cover knocked all my door right about that time. I'm just in a towel. But I'm as wide as a sheet. All my pores are right, but I'm just sweating. My lips are all tight. He's like, "Are you okay?" I said, "I don't think so." So we go sit on the balcony. I've been looking at the ocean we're talking.

And he's like, you know, sometimes he'd been around for a while. It's a very experienced guy. He goes sometimes, we get this extra stress or the stressors, um, because we're fearing the end of the case. Sometimes, we're fearing the fact that they're going to find out who you really are. Sometimes,

sometimes, he's just one of the things he says, "Any of those?" I said, "It is now." I said, "Dad,

“I'm in man. I didn't have any of that in my head." And now I think, uh, uh, and I took an app.”

I self-medicated and went back out. I should have went home, but it didn't. Um, and when I went home from that trip, wheels up to wheels down, out cold, woke up to the plane at the ground, hard

ever, as to me, if ever. Same thing from Houston in McAllen. I get home and I bet you the first

day I slept 20 hours. Um, then, the next, from that Sunday, I think Sunday to Friday, I have reserved for 16 hours to sleep a day. I went into press. Um, I wasn't sick. I know what they both feel like. I was that tired. So, come Friday morning. Uh, I'll say a former friend of mine. I don't think he likes me anymore, but I still love him, but it is what it is. But he called me. And he says, they said, "How you doing, Country?" And I said, "Not too good." He was calling to tell me about

another case that was going to be coming up and maybe we could do it or something. He let me talk for an hour, and I basically talked about, he let me convince myself that I needed to self-report to do safeguard. And that Friday evening, I'll put a call in, because I need the psychologist,

one of them anyway, was a friend of mine, and I called her and said, "Hey, I don't know what's

going on, but I think I'm crashing." So, they came down within two weeks or so, they came down and did an on-site assessment, special on-site assessment, and I was diagnosed as over a side, and they put me on time out. I'm not going to be doing any other cover work for a minimum of six

“months. Go back to the office, you know, reintegrate if you need to. I really didn't,”

because I was still a case, I just didn't know the whole thing. But I did finish the case on the phone. They allowed me to do that. So, what I did, to help solidify everything for Boston's office in the case team, is I stayed on the phone. I gave a story that I was getting divorced, that I was going to relocate my assumed to be ex, and my two kids to El Paso, where her parents were at, because I wouldn't be able to look at myself in the mirror if I didn't do that. But once

that's done, I'm coming north. I'm sick of this heat. That's where I laid it out. Everybody was like, "Oh, yeah." I mean, there was calls from Joe Dawks trying to get some kilos of cocaine from me. Just talk about a club we were creating to be a support group for the outlaws, talking to Scott town all the time. And then I got a call from one of the, there was a member named Tim Sylvia,

“not, you have see Tim Sylvia, but Tim Sylvia, he'd been in prison a lot, and he's an outlaw.”

He's a Brockton chapter-all. I met him before my crash, and he called me, and he said, "Hey, you know, he knew about the drug dealing all that stuff." And he's like, "You know what I mean?" And I go, "No, not really." And he said, "Oh, I'm not a magic powder stuff." And I'm like, "Okay."

I said, "Why?" And he said, "Yeah." I said, "Okay." And he said, "Basically, in crappy code,

he says, "If I can get a kilo of cocaine at 18 grand price, he's got enough about 10 of them right now." He also had a hum or two of a $100,000 BMW A100 reports on all this stuff like that. So I call the case team and say, "Hey, do you want me to set this up?" Or even just leave it alone. They said, "No, I mean, I set it up." So we set it up. And when he goes, when my truck drivers, they were posing as my truck drivers,

when they go to pick up the stolen cars from Sam Sylvia. I mean, if you hear the recording, you can even hear me on the phone. I'm broke, and now I'm like, "Hey, I'm literally in my garage, I'm a cow, I'm going. We're cornering you all. All right, they're ever here. Okay, he's ever here. Hook 'em up. They pull up. You can hear me on the phone. You can hear the other undercover talking to me. And then he puts him on the phone. And Tim's like, "Hey, you know, I got this, this, I said,

yeah, okay, so when are you going to report the BMW stolen?" He said, "Fried acid, can you wait the Saturday?" I said, "I just need, I want a 24 hour buffer to make sure that things are in Mexico." He's like, "Yeah." And they put the undercover back on the phone and he says, "How much am I supposed to pay?" And I said, "Are the cars there?" He's like, "Yeah, it's a 21 grand." And he gets in 21 grand. And then when they were loading the cars, Tim solicited them for the 10 kilos at 18

a piece. And they said, "Yeah, we can do that." So the case ended with a reversal. They were showing up with the 10 kilos and then the swatting takes down Tim's still. And that starts all the arrest off. What was rough for me is, well, I didn't get to go be part of the takedown, but I'm pretty sure that was probably safeguard saying I'm going to travel, you know. You would have wanted to do the takedown. I would have liked to be in there. It's a great tool to have.

Especially if somebody's in their line. And then you come walking in like the TV and say, "Hey,

all right, yeah, I was lying." Oh, we're. If I feel like that person may be a threat to me. I may want to go talk to them at the arrest and say, "Hey, this is what this is.

“Maybe if there was a source in Bob, and I think they know who it is, maybe I'm going to tell them”

this is not the piss and contest you want to get into, kind of thing." I always, for me,

my best defense is a good offense. That's just me. I just, I, if I see somebody I put in jail, I ballin' me, I walk around up to them. "Hey, man, that's a go in brother day." You clean. You want to straighten there, but, uh, so I was putting on training. It's the first time I taught the block on the outlaw thing. And, um, it's the night of the takedown. I've had to draw diagrams of all the houses I've been in, and all the apartments for all the SWAT teams, and

arrest teams are going to be hitting all these places, which was stressful, too, because I'm a tactical guy, and I'm like, "I don't want anybody to get in hurt, because I wrote something down,

“Rome." But, um, I go back to my room, and I already told you, you see, he's got a little”

long hours. I go back to my room, and my phone's chirping, and I check, and it's a message from Scott Town. And, I churpe him up. Next tell's a big. I churpe him up, and he says, "Bras, people, it's 'cause he's just woke up, some middle of the night, 'cause I just want you to know, uh, you're uh,

you truck driver, and I know the guys always with him, and big Timmy, they got locked up, and I'm like,

what? Because they just got locked, 'cause somebody just called me, said they're in jail. And I said, "Well, you know, they're not doing anything for me, but they do stuff on the side." I said, "Let me figure out what's going on, something of that effect." And he says, basically, he says, "I'm going to get up, get ready. I'm gonna find out what's going on, and I'm gonna call you back." And I said, "Okay, our last words to each other were, he says, "I love you, brother." And I said,

"I love you, too." And about 40 minutes later, SWAT team at his house, many went to prison.

“Damn, yeah. That's real. Is he still in prison? No, he's out. You worry about that at all?”

No. That bomb was real. You don't worry about that. No. No, I'm not with him. That bomb was real. He's uh, he made a mistake. But he's a good guy. You're my house or talk to him? Huh? You think you'll ever talk to him? Have you? I can either confirm or deny, because I'm not being given permission. But the bomb is real. Right on, man. Yeah. Yeah. There's been people

that I put in prison under cover, put in prison. So not just me arresting them, me betraying them. Uh, I'm going through some family stuff. I won't talk too much about it. But I'm going through a divorce and let's just say that December 29th, the last year, to middle of February this year, it's touching good. Uh, and I know you know about it. I know you probably got military friends. I'm, um, I gave up. I felt like a failure. I didn't want to be here anymore. I'm not saying that to get sympathy.

What I'm saying is, is at least I practice what I preach, because I turn this block into mental health at the end. But I used to talk about it in past tense. But now I can talk about it in present tense. But at least I'm made phone calls. I tell people all the time when I finish training, I'm like, if somebody else doesn't say it, because if your listeners don't know this,

first responders are military. And I mean, first responders, I mean, medic fire and

blue and gun tutors, law enforcement, medic fire, law enforcement, military. We are very high if not number one in suicide. We are very high if not number one in substance abuse, divorce, and died within five years after retiring. So as of July 1st of this summer, I'm not that statistic. Because I made it every five. But I made the phone calls and it is a blessing that two of my pastors literally live two doors from me. And I was surrounded by good people. People had to come

and spend the night. And then in February, I took a turn for the better. I took a turn for the better, but I tell people, number one, it does not mean you're weak if you need help. That's a stigma we've got to get rid of and the first responder military. It doesn't mean you're weak in my opinion. If you go, I say this. I said, I tell when I'm teaching stuff at the end. I'm like, I get the proverbial

Because it happens all the time. I get that. But go get help somewhere. I also get counselor or psychologist hurt. You go in and you meet somebody. And it did not go well at all.

“I apparently did this from a pastor. But have you ever had food poisoning?”

Well, yeah. Did you quit eating? No, no. No. I'm not going to get a sub at that place anymore. But I'm going to get one somewhere else, you know. So go find it. And I tell people,

it's like, look, look, I like this. They've got a toolbox. And it might have tools you never even seen

before, right? If I gave you a hammer and said, build a house. It's going to be tough. But if I roll free semis of the best hard drive, and whatever we got, anything we want, best tools in the world, it's going to be a blast. We might even be able to build one in 30 minutes like they do on TV. But maybe they can give you a tool. And you can take that back to your toolbox. It's just the suicide race just too much. It's just, we got to do better. So it's a lot of evidence now to

go down to, yes. Keep yourself busy. Get yourself out of those holes. Yeah. We talk about a lot of them

“on this show. Yeah. I thought I was talking to somebody out there with the, the obigane and high”

wasca and stuff. I can't do it. They told me, I can't do it. I've got a buddy of mine that's uh, he's, he's big into the higher wasca. And when all that was going on, um, he was setting me up to where I could get a treatment. But uh, when I, in 2002, I went down, we figured out what it was.

It was a back surgery complication. So basically, the long short of it is for three weeks,

I felt like I couldn't breathe. I would eat this much for you to feel like I couldn't breathe. Well, by the time we figured out what it was, turns out there's some damage done and turns out when I crashed and had that panic attack in 2007 or eight, my mind reverited back to 2002. That's when the counselor's like, oh, because I was like, she's like, if you've ever been scared before, I said, yeah, I was like, really scared. Oh, yeah, yeah, 2002. I said, my wife and daughter

flew out. I said, I want things. I was at SWAT training. I couldn't breathe. I panicked. I panicked for three weeks. And as I was saying it, I went, oh, no. And she gets what? And I go, my mind reverited back to 2002. And she says, he got post-traumatic stress. And at that point, even as an educated guy, I was like, well, I went in the military. I didn't know you could get post-traumatic stress, that because I only heard it, you know, from like war and stuff. And yeah, she told me after I

told her all that stuff from the outlaw years. There's three years. She says, oh, my, she says, oh, my goodness, Scott, the average person would have crashed a year and a half ago. Oh, yeah. And I said, thanks. And she said, that wasn't a compliment. I said, but I'm better than half. The film better than average, right? So I say, I say all that because I think we need to do better about getting out there and or brothers and sisters, making the phone call. There's a lot of

things coming out now. There's a company called NG Mind Health. Okay. You've heard about the wearables, whatever, you know, the track, your, um, your vitals, heart, all that kind of stuff,

“sleep. I got a friend, Johnny Wilson. And I know Joe, that's what I was talking about.”

You know Johnny Wilson. I shit you not, that's what I was talking about. He's going to hit me up with the high ones. Yeah. Okay. I'm an alert instructor. So he started in Vign Health. So you put, you put these wearables, you know, you, it's all wring, um, any of, you know, the, the warmth, the hoop, um, and you can, you can make it so that these go, they, they kind of report into a friend of group. So you got your phone, right? Awesome. And if you, and so if your vitals start,

your sleep starts get fucked up, your heart rate starts rise. And you know, all these all these vitals start. I, I, I would love to see what my woulda read before my panic attack. So it'll kind of alert your friend group. And then your friend group could be like, Oh, what the fuck's going on? The call you up, say, Hey, Scott, how you feeling? You don't all right? I see you're not sleeping. See your heart rate's getting up there. Huge accountability. You know what I mean? And it's pretty,

it's actually pretty cool. You know what I mean? And so you can tell me that because probably

you're listening to me crying, but I'm always, but he wasn't a lifeline call, but there is, uh,

there's a lot of good stuff coming out now. Well, man, I want to hit on that, but real quick, I want to say this and you might want to clip it back on how you do it, but I just want you to know what I was, what led me into telling you all that stuff about the divorce and hurting one of the people

damn time damn man. I'm talking checked in in the morning, checked in at lunch, checked in at

dinner every day. Wake up, you son of a bitch. You're one of the most out of a male Viking dudes I've ever met and you can beat this. I mean, who would ever? Wow, who would ever? I told

“him I said, like, look, man, you need to choose your friends better. It's like what are you talking”

about? I said, I put you in prison. So to this day. He's like, he's like, you're hanging out with a felon and I go, that's true. Yeah, I'm retired, whatever. But so go back to Johnny. I swear, I didn't know that. So I met Johnny through alert. The FBI and alert ALER RT based on the same mark as Texas after the Sandy Hook school massacre. The partner justice from the top all the way down Obama, even during they said no training, whatever we couldn't travel or nothing,

they said an agency in the Department of Justice needs to be the lead on active shooter training for law enforcement and they chose the FBI. I'll say, not being biased, but I'll say, I think it was a good choice because the FBI has a SWAT team in every field division and we have a principal tattoo instructor in every field office. In order to be the principal tag instructor,

“you have to be a firearms instructor. Currently, you have to be SWAT certified. All these building”

blocks then you become an active shooter instructor. So they picked the FBI and my peers in Kwanico in the tactical training unit. We're going around and looking at different programs. There's several programs out there. But they settled in with alert and we married each other in 2013. So in 2013, I think about a hundred and twenty-five to 150 tactical instructors from the FBI over five weeks. At a week class, over five weeks, we all went and got certified as active shooter instructors,

certified instructors with alert. So all through those years, I was, I was helping teaching, getting certified in the solo officer response array, which is out there where there's a lot of military types of, again, certified. So when I retired from the FBI, I applied to be an adjunct instructor. So now, I'm not getting paid by the FBI, but like two or three weeks ago, put it on the class. Somebody requested they hosted. You see the classes you put in for them, you got a regional manager,

and I went and we taught a one week train the trainer. And if you pass your assertive

on instructor with alert, my first class, post FBI, on probation, my first class was Johnny.

And we've been best friends ever since. Yeah. Man, how the hell did I know this? I don't know. So the other thing is, I mean, man, he saved his own, I mean, he did end up getting amputated, but he saved his own life on that motorcycle wreck. He was guiding in, we're talking about the same Johnny Wilson. No, we're not talking about the same Johnny Wilson. I saw you looking and I was wondering, Jay Sock. No, no, all right, there's a different Johnny Wilson.

“Different Johnny Wilson. It's crazy. It's not an amputee. Okay, because that's why I was like,”

man, he didn't tell, why wouldn't he not tell me he's got this, I don't tell anybody things. All right, so another Johnny Wilson, but I'll tell you about my Johnny Wilson. He's Jay Sock. He did have a motorcycle wreck. He saved his own with the stop the bleed. Had to have a bystander, make shift, turn a kit, got it, EMSM, but he did end up losing from here down. But he's the one, that's just crazy. Because you said it, he's the one that was telling

me a lot about this stuff. And I, and maybe I should preface it with this. I'm friends with the owners of CPI, cellular performance entity. They're based out of T a one. They are part nerd with the UFC. So you watch the octagon. You'll see CPI stem cells. I'm kind of a spokesperson for them. And they now have, well, it's not them, but there is a non-profit, the Miracle Hope Foundation

raises money for first responders and military to be able to get those treatments. Because they

are pricey. But they're doing a lot of things to help. I've seen a lot, I've met a lot of people. I've been like three times now. I've met a lot of former military, former spec ops, and their bodies healing from all the stem cells. So the pains, they're pain free for the first time in forever. And now you're like, okay, that helps mentally, right? That's going to help cut back on this. I don't want to live anymore. And one of the times I was coming back, oh, let me say this about CPI. The stem

cells they do down there is, if you do stem cells in the United States, you're probably getting

chord donations end down there. You get like, I mean, I got 20 million and one shoulder 10 million

“and that one 70 million in my neck, 120 million in an RV, you get in hyperbaric oxygen chamber,”

ozone therapy, all this stuff. And there's some amazing things happening. But it's also helping them with the mental health. Yeah, a lot. Um, I will say it's the best hospital stay I've ever had. People here at Tijuana and I was sketched to you, man. I worked the border for six and a half years. We talked about Cartel. And I went down there and I'm like, it's where you stay, restaurant district, where the hospital is, medical district. It's a best hospital stay I've ever had. Because my

last hospital stay in the United States almost died. They were talking offline, but I had a

hair replacement. And 13 days later, I was full blown steps. And almost died. Had two hip surgeries in 14 days. And that hospital stay Labor Day weekend, understaffed. You're not getting your medicine. I'm down there at the at the center, man. I'm like, yeah. So coming back, one of the last times I came back, I'm coming out of the the Sheraton hotel. I'm hopping on the bus, shuttle bus. I see a bunch of things that look like they were CPI people. And we start talking.

It's all from the military and they were coming from ambient. So they started telling me all about

ambient and then the documentary is on Netflix. And I watched it. But what I heard is this.

And my friend Johnny's the one that found this out for me. But um, in 2002, when I had the, whatever's Dr. Prescribed, Vinfaxi, effectsors the the night. But I'm pretty much ever since. So I was getting ready to go do a higher wasca. I was going to try that. I began, you can tell me, I don't know, man. I'm like 18 hours or more. I'm like, well, I don't know. I'm not being scared. I'm not, I might be, I am scared. But what they came

back like three or four different doctors said, if you're on that and SSRI and SSN, it's going to compete with what the high wasca and the obigan or the DMT is trying to do. And they said, you could go in the seizures or you won't have anything happening all over. It'll be a bad ride. And I'm like, I don't want any of those. But for whatever reason, you can do ketamine if you're on an SSRI or an SSNR. And you still disassociate.

“And I've done six of those. I've done six, six treatments for that. Really? Yeah. How are those?”

I disassociated, man. I was fine. You know, getting anything out of it? Yeah, I did. Yeah, because I was, I was crying a lot because that was, I was during some that, that rough two and a half months stretch, I guess. But man, I'd just be going in crying. As I'm, as I'm going in, I'm going, please stop this playing. Please heal me. Please heal me. And then I would be, but I had some, I had some epiphanys. But I really had a good guide too. I mean, that helps when

they come in and talk to you if they're, if they're really knowledgeable and a good listener or did just good, good person with great advice. But, um, one, they hit me. It was, I have a lot more love to give. So weird one. I came out and I'm like, what? And then another one, I came out and I was like, the Lord put me here to serve, pretty much what I've done. Still trying to run out, man. And then, you know, that book's finished. Maybe I'm starting my new book. Good for you. Yeah,

so we're trying. And for some odd reason, I would end up at least three of the six. I would end up in the woods. And I'm looking at all the trees and they all turn around and they're all sassquatches from that movie Harry and the Henderson's from the 80s. And they're like, you can't control,

“you're flying. I'm flying. I'm like, okay, oh, oh, I'm back. I remember this spot. Okay, okay. And I”

get, oh, and I look at the altar and they get, oh, what's up? One of these days, I'm going to see Harry and the Henderson's on TV. It made throw me into some kind of a ketamine. That is why I just introduced my kids to Harry to the Henderson's. I'm obsessed with big fun. That's like good. They love nobody talks about that movie. I know. But they think they think there's just, he's going all by himself and all the trees or sassquatches. Yeah, I did. I did. I had some good things out of it.

But I don't know how that compares to Abigail and her or Hiahuasca or DMT. Well, I've done

so that's what I'm afraid of. How many hours? Oh, I think this last one was about eight. I

“think we started my APM and I was still in it. I finally got out of the room at 4 p.m. the next day.”

So, what's it? 20 hours? Yeah. Yeah. And then I did five of them. And pretty sure I experienced hell. Yeah. What's the five? What? Is that the DMT? The towed venom. Yeah. Stan T. And that's like, they say that's like a 30 minute ride or something, right? Just as soon as you hit it, they're like boom, you're flying. Yeah. Yeah. I don't even like talking about it. It's so fucking dark. Yeah. Yeah. They call it the

god molecule. But I didn't feel any god. Not on that one. And the first one, one great,

could drink and I'm like four and a half years off booze now. So really. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. You think that's the DMT or the other game? Or is it the both together? Oh, that's thought I have a game. I mean, it's it's got, I think it's pretty much scientifically proven at this point that it replenishes receptors and in your brain, so it takes cravings away and can cure addiction.

“That's what they're saying, ketamine does. It works right here. Yeah. Yeah. But for some reason,”

you can still do it with what it would do. It'll help you back off. It'll help. That's why I started

they said, if you do the ketamine, you can back off of the effects or the female effects. And

my mom was a was a light switch. I just didn't want any booze anymore, didn't want any, really, anything. Then it stuck. Everything but marijuana. And then I quit that off this last one. It's only been about a month. But yeah, I don't know. You know, I got it's helped a lot of people. But yeah, that's why I'm just out of it. I wonder why? So what I was instructed is do the ketamine to back off the effects or then you're off the effects or then you can go do that. I began in the

high Alaska. That's why I was doing it. But at a certain point with everything going on, I was down and I'm like, I'm doing too much. I've done this too much going on. I'm heartbroken. I'm going through all this. Yeah. And I just went back to regular medicine. I'm like, until this all settles it down. But I really would like to try it. Which one? By the game and both? Yeah. I mean, my friends that I know were pushing

high Alaska more. I'm not done that one. I don't know. This mushroom based, I guess, I don't know. He's done. Have you done just regular suicide? I mean, maybe try that. I wonder if I can do that with it. I just don't want to bust out in the seizures. And I don't want to have a bad dream. You're going to be bad. I don't want to be. I'll be that guy flopping off the cliff. What happened? I don't know. I got a bad head about trip. Let's take a quick break.

There's been a lot of attention lately on how important sleep is. Not just for recovery, but for your brain hormones, immune system and for your performance. In the more research comes out,

“the clearer it gets. If your sleep is off, everything else gets harder. That's why I use”

Helix. I've had my Helix mattress for a while now and it's been a real upgrade from what I was sleeping on before. Helix has over 20 mattress models. So you can find one that actually fits how you sleep instead of guessing your way through it. And if you sleep hot, they've got cooling upgrades that help you stay comfortable through the night, especially during the summer. For me, Helix feels high quality, durable, and comfortable. It's not just a mattress that shows up in a box.

It feels like something that's built to less. Helix shifts straight to your door for free in the US and you get a 129 sleep trial, a limited lifetime warranty and they're happy with Helix guarantee. So returns and exchanges are simple if it's not the right fit. Helix is also the most awarded mattress brand. Tested and reviewed by experts like Forbes and Wired. Go to HelixSleep.com/SRS for up to 30% off. That's HelixSleep.com/SRS for up to 30% off. Make sure you enter our show

name after checkout so they know we sent you. HelixSleep.com/SRS. The internet wasn't built with your privacy in mind, but Glacier was. Open the app.

Take your privacy back. Download Glacier today.

All right, Scott, we're back from the break. Let's hit the base. What's it doing? So the book, that's kind of like the book ends. It was one of the last big cases I did. Actually, kind of got me thinking about retirement because you come up to 50 years old, how many young, young guy groups can you infiltrate unless you're the pedophile, you know? You have an

unbearance, though. So when you say white supremacy, a lot of most people picture like KKK, you know, and I did their stories of that in the book, so I infiltrated them. It's a little more

“comical than serious, I think. But the base is this, they're called accelerationist. So”

by the time I retired, let me say this way, when we started this investigation, it was considered

kind of cringe if you were a white supremacist to be an accelerationist. But by the time we finished, almost 90% of your national socialist neo-nazzi white supremacists online were claiming accelerationists. And this is what this is. There's a book called Siege by James Mason. He's a longtime white supremacist. The book is essentially articles of interviews, but he highlights and in Irish people like Satan, Charles Manson, you know, good role models. But it's the way I was told

is this. When I infiltrated the base, I was told by them, "Hey, this is what we are." And acceleration ists does not believe that there's a political solution for the white race. They believe this society is going to collapse on its own, or for man-made events, and they want to speed it up. But they want to speed it up through guerrilla warfare tactics, small hits, like power grid over here, trying to realm it over here, poison water system here, murdered, lefty here, just chaos.

Not a lot of forethought or afterthought, you know, but the accelerationist views kind of came about in the 80s. I believe the group was called the iron order or just the order. But they were

“the ones that were taken off, like armored cars. And I tell people, like if you want to pitch”

your like militia anti-government, because militia's aren't illegal, but anti-government meets

the doomsday prep or meets the white supremacists. So we're out there training. You're always

building your battle, round all your kit for the bug aloo, and they refer to the bug aloo as like the day, the kick off to the race war. But they are the new, their neo-nazis, their national socialist but accelerationist. And this group, the base, came out after Adam Waffen. Adam Waffen was created by James Mason who wrote the book Siege. But the base, we started getting from our world working partners and stuff, these accelerationists are pretty big on light, but they call flyering or

stickering, and are posturing. Essentially, it's me and you, we're all hooded up, we're all covered, we park here, we walk down as far as we're going to go, don't get picked up by any cameras and on the way back up. Maybe you got this braglue, you're spraying it, and I'm slapping the, I'm slapping the poster on there. And we're just going up, and the poster would be like, save your race, join the base. And there'd be pictures of like training and some swastikers and stuff

on it, and then there'd be a QR code. You hit that QR code, it takes you right to a bit shoot website to a propaganda video to help recruit you. Because what I'll say is this, I've seen a lot of, you see chatter and some haters after some of the interviews you do, I just want everybody to

“understand. I'm talking about farotic extremism because that's what my skill set led me into,”

but I have peers, mentors, people I've been blessed to mentor, that work all other sides of extremism. And I will tell you, if you look at radical geod, if you look at farotic extremism and farotic extremism, the techniques are very, very similar. The radicalization of teens and young ones online is very, very similar. And they all end up in their belief system, usually end up with their own little space, whether it's a caliphate, an ethno state,

whatever they want to call it, where it's almost socialism, you get stuff for free, and it's only why it's over here. Or you got you caliphate over here, you got this over here. I'm it's very similar. But they came on our radar because these flyers and stuff were coming up, but they're also

London, whatever they're reaching out. And we determined, we were able to figure out that the leader

“of the base is a guy named Renalde and Azara. But online, he went by enormous peers and Roman”

Wolf and other monitors. This guy is a US citizen, a woman, villain of a grant, former Army intel,

trying to think of a missing thing. He contracted with the DOJ somewhere. First they were saying

it was FBI, but I don't think it ended up being the FBI. And now resides in St. Petersburg, Russia, with his Russian family. And he is trying to start, they're trying to make a comeback. We pretty much made him to funk after our case, but they're trying to make a comeback. They're claim some murders and Ukraine and stuff. But so these flyers start coming. And we're getting all the reports. Meanwhile, we have coverage online of whether they're covered employees or whatever, but

you're seeing this chat online. And it might be a moniker like TMB. And we're like, "Who is this guy?" I mean, he is spewing some crazy stuff. Because if you spew too much crazy stuff,

like in those groups and on those apps, they're going to start, they're going to say you're

glowing. And that means you're talking fed talk or you're a snitch. And they'll be like, "Hey, man, that's fed talk." In other words, you're going to keep talking like that. The fed's are going to be in this room kind of thing. But a lot of the groups you use like telegram, wire, what's that? Maybe ride it three months, 4chan 8chan 12chan discord, all these things. Now, I'm saying that everybody on Discord is doing bad stuff. Not at all. But the bad people

go to Discord to do bad stuff. Absolutely. It's like I tell parents with kids these days. I mean, look, man, if your kids play in red blocks in Fortnite and Minecraft, awesome. If they're playing

“those games with the headset on, awesome. But you need to know either talking to you.”

Yeah, we've covered that quite a bit on this show. Yeah, 764 called. Yeah, all the

shit that's going on on road. So 764 has an acceleration this view. So if you look at your acceleration as groups, like the base, like Adam Waffen and these other ones, if you start scratch at the surface, you're going to probably find at least one member in there, this messing with order of nine angles. And order nine angles, this white supremacy, but heavily, heavily, heavily, satanic. You'll see order of nine angles, tidy in with 764, and cold, and hell, and all

those other groups. Not necessarily white supremacy, but still that kind of accelerationist anti-government chaos thing. So how did this pop up on your radar? Well, I am I was involved in the undercover program. I was the undercover coordinator in my office.

“We were running undercover operations. And so I'm always working with those headquarters units.”

And I don't know who told me or maybe I was there when it happened. But over time, it's like, "Man, we got to put somebody in on this group." And I'm like, "Hey, I'm free. If you all think I'm good for what I'll do it." And they're like, "Yeah." So I had a good buddy of mine who's a task force officer. Really good online. I had him sit down with me. And I said, "Hey, I need you to help me build myself up online." So I could start bumping into these guys, because they were

recruiting online on gab. You go in there. And the the channel group would be for a flight to only. And you're like, "Well, I wonder what I'm going to find in here." Or it would be like 14 words. Well, that's the 14 words coined by David Lane's. It's renowned in white supremacy. So I go on, I created an identity. And I go on to gab and I start looking at some of their stuff. And they're like, "Post and hey, we're a, we're a unit, survival

is group." And we like to train and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay, so I email, says, "If you're interested, email here." So I like some of their stuff. They like me back. You know, I'm got my best friends now. We like each other online. So I email, and for about a week till week and a half, I'm getting email questions, questions, questions, questions, questions. And I don't want questions. I mean, like, my ethnicity. Hi, wait, what skills

said do I have? And any kind of fighting, training, guns, stuff like that? What are you going to bring to the table? What groups have I been a part of? Is there anybody my family that's not in white? Things like that, all kinds of stuff? So I do that. And then I'm looking, I'm like, "Man, they're only answering me during this block of time during the day." And I'm sitting there and I'm looking, I'm going, "What time it is in Russia right

now?" And I'm like, "I bet you it's Nizarra answering my questions because it was like,

it was that evening sweet spot time in Russia. And I was pretty sure, we didn't, I don't think

“we're confirmed it, but I'm 99 point opposite here, it was him. Because then I'm instructed to”

hey, download the wire app. And again, these, these, these extremists are using these apps because they believe they're encrypted. So I'm some of them are encrypted into and they're based out of like Sweden or somewhere else where the feds here are going to have a hard time subpoena in that information, you know. So it's essentially the thwart law enforcement activity. So they, they're struggling to download the wire app. I get on it and I hit them up and I'm told

that I'm going to do a, it ended up being about four or five people on the call live phone call panel interview. So, so I'm like trying to school myself and like I've read it. Some of

the seeds, I got some things. I know I could talk about with seeds. All right, good acceleration,

so identity. I know that my backstory is I was a skin head, I've already got all that covered in South Carolina, I've been boom, boom, boom, got everything lined up and I'm ready. So I said, well, what if they grabbed me with, they tell me to take my phone and do a 360 in the room. You know, cut the video, I won't do a turn on my hand, let me go down the woods. So I go down the woods, I tell my wife and kids, I'm like, hey, I'm going to be on the woods on the undercover call,

don't be coming out screaming my name and stuff. I'll come up when I'm done. So I'm down there, it's about 10 minutes to the call and it's before I have this arm sleeping out with tats. I was going my leg, my whole arm was black and I went, I look down, there's that many mosquitoes. My whole arm was covered and I was like, screw this. I, in fact, I'm not going to call from the woods and I went running up to my old truck and I made

sure it was clean, nothing's in it. They said, Scott, panoramic thing like that and I drive over to a band in parking lot. But for close, maybe parking lot and I do the call. It lasted about an hour and 15 minutes. Some of the voices on there were very young, very young. And I was

“asked questions like, how are you with taking instructions from somebody younger than you?”

There's a lot of young people in this group, you know, are you, are you willing to accomplish anything? Or are you willing to do anything to accomplish a go? You know, they told me about somebody who had a relative that was like, uh, it put like a sliver of non-whiting them and they said it and they better them. But I'm also, they also explained to me what their goals are, what they're doing, preparing the kit for the bugleard, what accelerationism is and at the end of the call on

the Zara says, look, I'd like to give a 24 hour rest period. Now you know what we're about and we know about you. It gives us a chance to decide if we want you. It gives you a chance to decide if you want to be in it. And truth is, we're about 24 hours later, I got a pain and it said that they were willing to, they would love to have me join the base and I said, I'd love to join. And then they said where are you at? And I said, he's Tennessee and they said, the closest sale, C-E-L-L because I got a

country accent. The closest sale to you is in North Georgia and you'll be contacted by the, by the, sale leader. And I've mentioned that we've seen this guy, TMB online, like spewing stuff. And everybody was like, man, who is this dude? Wow, man, he is talking some crazy crazy stuff. Well, guess who ended up being my sale leader, TMB. Wow. Yeah, we had no idea. I was like, holy crap, it's him. And I'm called, and now I got to go down to Rome, Georgia, to do a face-to-face meeting

to be vetted in real life, RRL, whether it's for it to end real life. And then at that point, I'd be brought in. So, you know, we create all that. You're working with different case teams. You're trying to identify people and stuff. And, and I go down to meet the case team in Georgia, and they just ping me a location. So, I pull in this cemetery. I'm like, I start laughing. I get out of

“like a, this is a whole task force there. I'm like, you guys trying to tell me something about having me meet you in a cemetery?”

It's a pretty morbid way to start, you know? And then they say, hey, man, you mind if we slap a tracker on each other. I said, no, go ahead. Because you got to remember,

I've never met these people. At that point, I don't even think we knew who TMB was. We knew

we were going to meet TMB. But I don't think we knew who he was yet. So, picture you've got an undercover going in, could be hopping in the car with somebody. You don't know who they are. We don't know where you're going. And a storm's coming in. So, that's going to cut out some aerial footage. You know what I mean? Some aerial surveillance. So, they had instructed me when I got, they said, when you get to Rome, take a picture. Oddly enough, there was a statue of a Roman wolf

in Rome. Take a picture of that send it to me. I want you to park in this parking lot. These kind of

I go, yes, they're watching me. That's why they're telling me to park in certain places,

saying pictures and stuff. So, they put the tracker on, I go and I'm riding around. I can't find a park as a spot in the parking. And I would just find them and make, because it allows me to look the neighborhood down town a couple of times. I don't know where I'm going. Looking for a spot, but I can also be looking to see if I pick up counters surveillance or whatever. Or surveillance

“on me. So, I find a spot and I pull up in there. Did you pick up any?”

No, I didn't see any. I didn't see any. But the reason is there are only two of them. I didn't know, but I was looking. So, I find a spot as behind a coffee shop, I think. I'm like, hey, I'm parked over here. I can't find a spot. Here's a picture of the Roman wolf.

And he goes, where are you at? And I'm like, yeah, I'm everything because I'll count to you.

So, they come walking up. It's TMB. And a kid that went by the name pestilence. I say kid. He's 19 at that time. And TMB's probably like 16, maybe 20, little frumpy build. Mopi Harry needed a haircut, thick glasses. But thicker dude, he comes walking up kind of dress normal. Pestilence is more like tactical eight inch boots. Black BDU used blouse into his boots. But a black tank top that has some black metal band on it. Which would be more like your

satanic death metal black metal stuff. There's different things. Black metal. So, I introduce myself. I mean, why worry, okay, we shake hands and stuff. And I'm pretty sure they're going to pat me down. So, first mate, you know, I would do your new diligence, you know. And he says, put your phone in an airplane mode and I'm like, okay, so I put an airplane mode.

And then he pulls out this thing. And I've never seen it one like it. I mean, it look like a

guy your counter to me. I'm like, what the hell is this? I mean, this behaves like this big, radiant thing at a triangle car sticking out of it. I'm like, hmm, I'm not rusty.

“I've seen plenty of RF detectors and things like that. But I'm like, what is it?”

So he wants me, nothing. He goes inside my truck, nothing. As he's walking down the driver's side, slowly, at least at some other adrenaline dot moment. Not quite like the basement, naked, you know. But he's walking down, and this machine starts going nuts. It starts going. Lights are going off and I go, oh shit. It's picking up the tracker. I don't know exactly where it's at. But I saw the agent under my driver's side quarter panel

and he put it up and he's getting close. I'm like, I start easing my right leg back. Because I'm like, they're my cover team's not, they're not even close. It's about to go. I'm ready. I'm like, I don't know if they're armed. I know I'm not, you know. And right when he's getting to it, because we were on a steep hill, there was power lines. They were pretty low. And pestilence says, hey, you think it could be the power lines?

He turns divine intervention for me, man. He's like, you know, like, he turns and walks

“over and the power lines make it go nuts. And he's like, shit. Yes, the power lines. You need to follow”

us. I said, okay, we'll all hop in the car. And I'm called, I don't know how many people are watching. I'm on the phone, but I'm driving and I'm doing the stiff lip thing. You know, my, my, from my southern roots, you know, I'm like, hey, can you guys hear anything? They're like, yeah, I'm like, you need to cut the tracker off. They're like, well, so you gotta cut it off. And it seemed like we went back. They weren't like arguing with me. It was more of a safety

concern. They were like, man, we don't know if we can cut it off remotely. And if we cut it off, we don't know if we can get it back out. We don't even know where you're going. I said, I'm telling you right now, whatever they have is picking that up. And if you don't cut it off, it's going to be a quick undercover, going to be over. And then I follow them. And I don't know if they got it off or not. I'm just hoping they see me and they're following me, I hope they got it off. And I follow them

and they pull into like in a band and concrete plant. Like I pull in and I look up and I'm like, oh, that's funny. Like how many action movies have I seen where people get killed in a band and concrete plant? The hits are just coming today, you know? And I remember up in my arms up in the sky, fell into the bottom of the sky, fell out. So I felt like I was in a creed video and I was like, raining on me with arms wide open and they checked me and I'm fine. They checked the truck.

They got the trucker shut off. So that was a ham. Then we go hit the liquor store and then go to Luke's TMB's property. His dad had a hundred acres in Rome, Georgia. And I mean, Georgia's property is saddled. It was happening on it, but Georgia's property. An older house that they were renting out and then they converted the bone into a residential top half. That's where we did all the training. And maybe I should point this out too. When I told you

No, Alqaeda. No, shit. Alqaeda in English means the base. What was Alqaeda's M3 to five

“man sales all over the world, training for D-day, waiting for the phone call? What's the M3 for the base?”

Three to five man sales all over the world, training for D-day, waiting for the phone call. Wow. Yeah. So, shit. Trying not to burn myself on that. So, I sit there. There's some crazy stuff you hear. Some of these cats, man. They believe that there's the earth. There's flat. There's flat earth. There's there's concave earth. There's hollow earth. And they believe that Hitler still alive and he's living in hollow earth with 15 foot plus tall. They're not a gardens.

Maybe a garden is what it is. Big white red headed ginger dudes, 15 plus foot tall.

And I'm like, okay, I do have to have a little bit of fun, you know, and I'll go,

so what are they waiting on? What? Is there some significant event to come back and save the white racer? Well, Hitler, come on. What are you doing down there in hollow earth? Come on up here, buddy. You know, and they'd be talking like, you know, Hitler conducted a study that proved that the earth is concave and I'm like, okay. And they're like, yeah, so he shot a missile and eventually the missile hit the ground.

And I go, what if the missile ran out of gas or power? I go, well, no, I go, what if there was a hill or a mountain and he hit that? And then they were like, well, we don't know the nuances of the study, but it's been proven that they're of this concave and my kids. I go, what about the pictures? All the pictures of earth from space. Oh, that's one photo that was made and it's been, it's been, that's like a gay man.

But yeah, they're armed. You know, a lot of these people shown that they were young. They didn't have a job. If they did, it was just some odd job stuff. It was definitely not a nine to five. Didn't have a car. A lot of them had the barricard, but they're building a kit. They were wearing cry precision play carriers. That's the same damn thing. They have to be

“outwairs. And they're not cheap. Yeah. You don't have a job, but that's what you're wearing.”

You got your gun belts. One guy in the group, he did have a job. He was 30 something former army as well. He had a 6.5 Creedmore and bought a $6,000 thermal scope. Because the idea was, is that would level the play and feel that night, even if he's not that good of a sniper. They were talking about taking out cops. And I tell, I mean, well, you, all right, just finished the car stop. Pow, take the cop out like the sniper, kind of DC. The sniper thing. Do that.

You kill a cop. What do you get? You get bullets. You get a gun. You get a bullet previous. Radio. Well, it's like a, they were talking about kinds of crazy stuff. So I started getting in the group.

The first. So that was a Friday. I'm at them. Saturday, I got up came back over two other

members were there from the Maryland cell. They had driven in through the night. So there's five of us. And that day, uh, carbine, uh, firearms and tactical training was given by 19-year-old kid. And it was good. It was good. It was good. He knew what he was doing. Yeah, it was good. Not the best. There were some things I saw that could use some correct them, but I was also the principal tactical instructor. I'm not saying I'm a be all in to all, but, yeah, you know, from here to LA, people got enough

experience and been around, but mostly your tactical stuff should be similar. But, um, definitely didn't come in as an instructor, because I don't want to instruct them. That'd be a liability. I don't want to make anybody planning to do bad things, a better shooter, a better attacker. But I'll tell you, it worked me up, because I went back to put on the training for the Knoxville division. And I told all the agents and, and taskwork, everybody was either shooting. I got a man. I was just with

these people for like three days and a 19-year-old kid, led, clearing everything. And I'm like,

“okay, you're too young. I think that's been in the military and be out, right? I'm like,”

I get worried that you learn this. I mean, I think it was gaming and his dad took him to a range. And I mean, he was fast shooting, fast shooting and aggro. Some of his shots were so fast and they did out of raw. So that probably had a little bit to do with it. But they, they was fast and he wasn't like riding it. You know, you can ride the recall, you know, get that little finger bump on an AR or a semi-automatic. He wasn't doing that. And then you start hearing the plans and the hate.

And so now we're uncovering more. So you're learning more about this stuff. But again,

we've got reports of crazy stuff. We've got enough reason to open a case. But are these guys just

“spewing trash that's first amendment protected? Or are they actually planning on doing something wrong?”

And that's especially in domestic terrorism. That's where you get this. There's no domestic terrorism. There's no federal domestic terrorism statute. And even if they did want, I'm not sure what parameters you put on it. There are international terrorism, like material support. That's a good one. But there's not. See, so if you're working as an agent, we're trying to find out any crime they're doing that we can just get them off the street. So I start making more people in the group.

I'm getting gain and more trust. And we are, we're seeing some people get doxed. And for the

listeners that don't know, that's basically you're getting out. And so what I like to say a lot

to people is hate begets hate. I don't care where you left it right. Hate begets hate. If the right does something to the left, the left gets pissed, they retaliate. If the left does something to the right, the right's going to retaliate. It's hate begets hate. So one of the members was in South Africa and he got doxed. And one thing the left is very good at, one of the things they're very good at is doxing. They will. I don't know who's paying them. I'm not going to go down

that rabbit hole. But but they will show up at your house, your business, your parent's house,

“your kid's school, and just sit out there and yell and let everybody know your white supremacist, right?”

And then the far right extremist person feels like they just lost their whole damn wife. So what are they going to do to retaliate? So this guy gets doxed down in South Africa and another member in our group who was also in Adam Waffen member says, how many of our brothers have to fall before we retaliate? And in the Hitler days there was an operation called Christelmach. And operation Christelmach was essentially the Nazis going down and smashing windows to Jewish.

It Jews, non-whites, smashing windows, setting their businesses on fire. Slash and tires, all that stuff. So this member called for operation Christelmach during a certain amount of days. Well several of the base members did go out and spray paint Jewish synagogues and I think somebody did do something like slash some tires or something, but not everybody did. They were able to pull that base member off, do a wall off so we can arrest him without burning the entire case.

So we're also learning a couple other things. Every time the base gets infiltrated, whether it be vise, news, article, journalist or whatever, every time they're infiltrated, they're upset, operational security is tighter and tighter. How did we get infiltrated? How do we stop that from happening again? And as I said at this point, I'm still trying to figure out, yeah we're here in some hate, we're here, but there's no acts and furtherance of

doing something bad. Right now it's just just talk, training. Yeah, training and talking. Now you might be able to get somebody, now he went to felon. Maybe a gun violation. I'm not ATF. I know there, I don't know all the gun violations, but maybe there's something you could get for, you know, ghost guns that you're making. So we have a member in Canada. And he went by

Jimmy, the frog rancher at first. I don't know, somebody's names, but he's doing the

posturing thing. So he's out there in Canada, putting up flyers with somebody answers. He goes, that person goes to the same thing I went through. Email questions, panel interview, face to face, in real life vetting with this member in Canada. So his real name is Patrick. So Patrick goes up to meet this guy, face to face and do the face to face vetting. And he comes back and says he's good. So you get the notification in the base main chat group. Hey everybody, welcome any member,

blah, blah, blah, blah, who went by Mark or something. There's about a week or two. I've just been in the main chat group. And then all of a sudden, this marked big disappears in an article drops in a big newspaper in Canada. Mark was actually a journalist named Ryan Thorpe. Kudos to Ryan for exposing neo-Nazis. But that gun, bro, no coverage, no response team, no reaction, task force, no cure, nothing. You went out on your own. And you went and met a white supremacist

who's probably armed. And you're just a journalist. Kudos, but please be careful, right? So he goes

“out, comes out with the article "Doxys." Hey, this guy turns out that Pat, I think it's their”

version of like our national guard. But it was kind of like the Canadian army. But he was a soldier

Pat's house, take his guns, his parents hating. He lost his job. And there's news footage of them

showing up and trying to talk to him and stuff. And then all of a sudden he upscotts. The last nobody knows where he's gone. But his truck is found at the border of Canada and America. So we're like, well, we're pretty sure he's here. This probably our group is helping him. But we're, from there, it's a, it's a, it's a potluck. You've got case teams now all over the United States. We've got our world working partners as well. But now that I'm in the group, any given time,

there might be 50 members, right? It fluctuates. And you would say, I identify, oh, this is this person. Okay, yeah, that's their picture. They're in Mobile, Alabama's territory. Well, now Mobile, Alabama has to open the domestic terrorism investigation against that guy. And then this guy, and this guy, and at one point, we have like, well, the case teams once a month, we had over 100

“people on a call. And every Monday, I think it was every Monday, I was on a call with all the case”

teams and their supervisors, because this thing's having a fast pace. So we had an unbelievable case agent out of Baltimore. And the AUSA that we worked with was phenomenal as well. And they get, they went after it like a good criminal case, which I was stoked about, because sometimes

you don't see that on the national security side, because they've never worked the criminal fast

pace side. And sometimes, you don't realize, there's all these avenues you can take in your investigation. But they were doing some phone crunching and analysis. And then what they did to figure out, I mean, it was awesome. Like, okay, we know he had this phone, but it stops here. And Minnesota, at Walmart, that phone dies, but there were some new phone numbers kind of, I mean, it's just all this stuff. And we get a shot of what looks like pat and the Maryland team leader can't go back

“from Rome, you got going through the Chesapeake Bay, told both. And we're like, oh, shit, that looks”

like them. So we're thinking, we don't know where. And one day, I got down to training and Rome,

and I pull up. And I'm looking at the cars. And I'm looking at the bodies under the only.

Because it's kind of sprinkling rain or whatever. And I'm like, okay, I don't see any cars, but there's an extra body under that only. And when I walked up, he was all bushy, bushy, red, beard, and bushy hair by that point. But as soon as he started talking, it was Canadian accent. And as you might have heard of me blah, blah, blah. And I was like, I just grabbed him to say, welcome to the United States brother. So now we got him. When I went out, where is that? He's not

wondering, here's the problem. He believes he's a ghost because he no longer lives because he lost everything that was valuable to him. And some of the conversations we would have on rucks or

“just sitting under the only drinking, just the four of us, pestilence, TMB, pat was now punished snake,”

punished snake, and me, pale horse. I mean, I just want people to understand. Because some people who look and scoff at it, they're like, oh, this is stupid. And these days, we're seriously talking about Pat said, on more than one occasion, when the bugle happens, windy day happens. If you're not fascist, that automatically makes you anti-fascist, and the penalty is death. He would cry. But he would say, I'm going to give my dad the chance. But if my dad doesn't

come to our side, I'm going to have to put a bullet in the back of his head. Holy shit. Now, and he said that more than once, and he would cry when he said it. Now, TMB, whose dad just went upstairs, who was down there having a few with us, TMB says, I could, I could do it. It gives me, but I would cry myself to sleep every day. He says, so I'd probably, I'd probably get somebody else to do it for me. And pestle, it's who, at that point in time, I thought, I mean, because he was

messing with order of nine angles and stuff like that. And some of his prayers, when we would do our ritual ceremonies, some of his prayer very dark and like satanic and like melting flesh and stuff like that, he actually said, you guys are way far ahead of me, because there's no way I could kill my parents. I'm not that far along yet. What kind of rituals? So, a lot of, okay, Hitler, Hitler loved a lot of Norse mythology. You would see like rooms and you would see,

now, that doesn't mean that an odonist is a white supremacist at all. But a lot, almost everybody, well, that is only one guy that I met that claimed to be Christian, not true Christ followers, Black supremacist Christians. Everybody else claimed pagan. And I've got friends who are pagan.

pantheons. So if you're in the Norse mythology pantheon, you're going to have the word, you're going to have

fraia, you're going to have Odin, things like that. There might be an Egyptian pantheon. It may have

“different. But generally, I think in the pantheons that I've looked at, there's usually like a goddess of”

love and some, you know, you got like an Odin, got a thunder, zoo, something, I don't know. I'm not a guru on it at all. But a lot of these white supremacists, because there are neo-Nazis, remember they won't have everything Hitler. All of our camo, Flectorn, because the Flectorn, camo pattern is German. They drank a lot, oh, yeah, your master. I mean, it's German. But that kind of thing. So we've had blots in the blot BLOT is the ritual ceremony for pagan.

One of the ones we had, we actually had a guy who was in our group, former national guard as well,

got voted because of his beliefs pretty much. He, he was, I think, in a solitary priest. So he led a blot and it was really more realistic. I felt like, but you're down there and we would do like, they would, they would carve runs into a wood, but then they would put swastikers and stuff on it. We would cut ourselves and bleed on the wood and set it on fire and we would be praying to our gods until the fire burn out. Stuff like that. Mead, they had me drawing runs on your chest,

having a worship ceremony. And then afterwards, you might have, uh, as if they pronounced it shaman. I heard somebody say, shoot me in the other day, but I'm not a guru, but you're going into the spirit world kind of thing. So when I heard pestilence pray at those, you're doing this stuff.

“Yeah, yeah, I did. Yeah, I prayed. I think I prayed to Rolo. Yeah. What is that?”

Ragnar's brother. Viking stuff. Jeez. I mean, my whole arm is all, this is all Viking, but for me,

I was doing all those undercoverers. I always knew I wanted the armor of God and armor of God

tattoos. I've always seen as either nights of the temple or like gladiator stuff. And I didn't want to do that, but I went, it's really Viking, but it's really armor of God. All the shield belt, even my lightning is Psalm 23. Then then once I retired, I went ahead and put Ephesians on my arm, but, um, yeah, big Viking stuff. So that I'm down there doing it with them. And you know, I told them, I'm like, hey, man, I can't have fruit. So they looked up a way that we're okay.

I have to be an evergreen, but I can do this and do this and swing the meat on, you know, I'm like, yes, I'm in the woods. And I'll just sweat and when I shared off with white supremacists, getting the holy shit, getting the paint stuff. I sacrificed or anything? No, not yet. Not yet. So now I'm getting an insider. And some people are coming and some people are going, we've now found out where Pat's at. So we got him in place, but we're here in these crazy things.

And sometimes you hear something, and I'm like, I mean, when you're undercover, you got to be careful not to look suspicious. So how can I circle back to what was that you said, you know, kind of thing? And uh, we were here in some things, but we weren't, we weren't sure. Well, it wasn't enough to go charging about anything, that's for sure. So, um, and right now, we've got an undocumented alien in the United States. Now, I've got him handling weapons, so that's

“another charge. But, do we want to blow everything for just this or are we getting even more?”

And at one point they asked me, they go, do you think we have enough coverage, the teams, and the management asked me, do you think we have enough coverage? With you in there, I said, no, I said as long as they're having direct messages between each other, and I'm not a part of that, or we're not a part of that. We don't, we don't have full coverage. It was just the facts. You think we got full coverage? I mean, you got access. You know, I don't, no, they're,

they're side messaging. I don't know this sale over here. I don't know this sale over here. So now, fast forward to Halloween of 2019, as I take a sip of this caffeinated, not caffeinated, yeah, caffeinated, beverage. I think it carbonated. Plug in somebody, try to make money. So fast forward, Halloween of 2019, we're having what this calmly referred is a cake camp. There's probably 12 or 13 dudes coming from all over the United States. The people from

overseas for whatever visa, passport, reasons, whatever they couldn't make it. So we're down in Georgia on the hundred acres, and we're there. All of us for a good three, four days of like, so Halloween evening. It was weird because it had been like, it hadn't been cold that year yet,

So I'm not a former Navy SEAL. That was a little fast for me too. To echo me, I even went to Walmart

and bought some base layers. I'm like, I didn't know that was going to get this gal. So we do, I do hand-to-hand combat. That's the thing I brought to the table. But, you know, when the lawyers headquarters are like, what, you're teaching them I'm like, man, I'm not doing the Patrick Swazzy ripped the throat out thing. I'm not teaching them how to do that. Because it's real, man. The real roadhouse. But I said, I'm just going to do some ground escapes to see

that. If somebody's in a full amount or you're in a full guard, whatever. And we did that with it's some car being trained and then that cold front blew in. And we're out there and we're just messing around. We got tent set up, fire going, and I go to charge my phone. And you know how it is when you're frozen and you hop in that warm truck and start kind of after having one or two, too, you know, you get in there, you get that toast eating. Kind of nod off a little bit. So I nod it off

and I woke up to my door beating. Pay a horse, pay a horse, you got to wake up, you got to wake up, you can, yeah, you can believe this, you can believe something like, what the hell, don't provide what? And they go, come out here, you got to see this. I'm like, yeah, they go.

“You remember us talking about a sacrifice? I get kind of, I mean, I vaguely remember something about”

we got to go. And I'm like, what? They had gone, I'm probably not even a mile down the road. You pass it, come and in to the property. Days got three gets. They went out there in their flectone with the balaclavas, which was their look. When I got introduced or accepted into the base, I was issued my balaclavas, and I was issued the base patch, which was three, I was rings, which signifies birth, death, rebirth. So the three rings. So they go out there with their balaclavas,

all flectone came out out, AR's AK-47s, jumping this these back yard, and he heard them. Or they started making noise, everybody bads down. This dude comes out with a flashlight. I'm like, it's a wonder, nobody got killed. So they still this goat or ram. I don't know the difference. It was a big goat with horns. And I get out. And one of the other dudes in the group, his moniker with Dima, he says, man, this goat's shitting all over the bed of the truck.

I can't go back, had a Chevy Colorado SR-2 or ZR-2. That's not anyway.

“Nice truck at all kinds of stuff to a small block diesel, I think.”

Either way, it's crap in all over the bed of the truck. And I get, well, I'd be crap in all over the place, too. If a bunch of meanderthals and flecton just jerked me out of my backyard, you know? So I see Eisen. Eisen is a member and he's the one that's going to be prey. He's going to lead the block tonight on Halloween night. And he, uh, he's over there loving on the goat, talking to it, and I'm like, wow, this is weird. I walk over and I go, hey, is it bad that I feel sorry for the goat?

He said, don't let the goat here. You say that. He gives his name's Gar. He named him Gar because his middle name is Garfield, named after his grandfather Garfield, whom I understanding was also a white supremacist. So now the goat's name is Gar. And he says, listen, we don't need any negative vibes. This goat needs to know what's going to evolve. We're going to sacrifice this goat. And it's going to open night. This is a good thing. And, uh, and we don't need any negativity. You know,

we don't need the other guys here and thoughts like that. And I said, can I? I'm just going to take

that baseball and push it down and never let it back up, you know? And, uh, I go over because we're

getting ready. And the rules were, hey, no weapons down at the Holy Spa. Um, so we've been everything. And I go to my truck and I go into my listening device because if I'm out, there's a cover team out. You might not be right around the corner, but I'm covered until I go to bed, but because I was staying on that property all days, I had 24 hour coverage. They were running shifts, you know? Somewhere down the road, maybe in a band in place with a

generator in it, whatever. I don't know. But they're all set up in monitoring. And I go to my listening device and I go, hey, I'm pretty sure we're getting ready to go down here and kill this goat. And I'm like, I'm racking my brain trying to think of anything. Should I stop this? Should am I stop this? But I'm giving you guys the opportunity. If you can come up with a reason for me

“not doing that or you don't want me doing it, you need to let me know. And I stared at my device”

and I waited, and I waited, and I waited, and I didn't hear anything. And I went, I leaned into the device and I said, well, you guys were going down here to do a sacrifice. So we go down in the woods,

these little walk, scary. Scary the first time I did it. I mean, first time walking down there,

I'm like a box of getting butterflies right now, man. I'm like a demon start flying. I don't know.

get in a circle. A lot of people want to talk about tradecraft, how to hide, how to conceal yourself,

“how to escape, how to evade. But here's the thing. The true professional”

that's not the guy that's always on the run. It's the guy who never shows up on the map to begin with.

It's basically my next point. Your phone is talking. It's talking through apps. You may or may not use. A lot of them you probably never use. Talking to servers that you've never even heard of that are telling them, where you've been, where you are, what you buy, and all kinds of other information that you don't want out. And that's where Glacier comes in with secure DNS. You hit a button,

close the app. You never have to open it ever again. That's concealment. It's been a long time building this app almost a year. It's the perfect app to conceal yourself. You can get it on the Apple App Store, or you can go to the Glacier app.com. Remember,

“privacy isn't paranoia. It's protection. The Glacier app. What's the Holy Spot?”

It's just a patch of the land down there where that's where we're going to do our rituals. I mean, like Tiki Torch has set up a little square area. They may even draw, like whatever, but that's where we would hold our blots. And he'd just started loop. GMB just started referring to it as the Holy Spot. Or maybe we all did, because this we're going to do our ritual. And again, it's not true pagan. They're twisting it to their white supremacy beliefs. Just like

Christian identity was twisted by neo-Nazis. They call it Christian identity. It's taking the Bible and twisting it to white supremacy, which is not the Bible. And not Christian. So we get down there. We're all in a circle around the gut. Somehow I ended up at the back of the gut. And I was in this doing the spiel. He's doing the blot. And he's saying that on this sacrifice, we're going to start the wild hunt. The wild hunt in Norse mythology is essentially

Odin and a bunch of other gods going out in the middle of the night and laying the smack down to all their enemies. The white supremacy version is the sacrifice is going to signify the beginning of the wild hunt. And that's us cleansing the world of darkness. He non-whites anti-fash. So he does the blot. And he comes over to sacrifice the gut. And he's got it's bigger than a machete. It wasn't a sword. I mean, if I went back and looked at it,

maybe it is a machete. But it was something that looked bigger than a machete to me. Big blade there. And he's a stocky kid. And I'm holding the gut. And he's practicing. He's like, let's say my people are getting impatient. Somebody's like, just do it. Let's say we made this to make a couple practice swings. Just do it, man. He rars back with all his mind. He comes down. And I'm holding this gut. He hits it right on the back of the neck. And I guess

pitching the head was going to chop off or something. It goes thunk. And all you hear is bad. And I went, oh, I don't think you broke a hair. I don't know if the blade was dull or if the back strap

of the gut is so thick. But in that split second in my mind, I'm like, oh, this is going to get

bloody man. This is going to be, I'm just pitching something nasty. And then somebody's like,

“do it again. It's going to take two swings. And then somebody says, somebody got, I think the”

pest one says, there's anybody have a pistol. Remember, nobody's supposed to bring a weapon down there. Zoom that says, I got one to which me and T and B, I didn't mention this T and B ran a tight range too. I was happy with how safe him and him and pest ones were running firearms training. It made me feel safer. You know, T and B and I both were like, what? The one dude who shouldn't have a weapon, the most uncoordinated, unsafe, who had been up for over 48

hours straight, I think. He worked third shift in Austin, Texas and drove on that or all nine

stop all the way to Rome, Georgia. And here we are, night one. He goes, I got mine. Luke takes it from me.

starts to point towards the gut and then turns away with his finger on the trigger. And that's

when the instructor in the came out. I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. He goes, well, man, look at what you're shooting at. We're on a dead, I'm circle. What are you doing? See, he's all right. He looks, bang, gut drops, minutes go by, you hear stuff like, yeah, man. You know, going to Vahala, whatever man, after your Jewish guy, all this stuff, quite power. And it's still kicking. Still kicking. And I go over Eisen. I said, once you put another round in it,

“he goes, I think it's dead. I said, yeah, but I mean, for the love of the gut, no,”

we wouldn't have arrived in Vahala. Happy, right? Not twitching. Yeah, yeah, that's the guy that is everybody in this. And you hear somebody say, oh, it's definitely dead now. So I think I'm done. No, we're not done. Now they take a knife and cut the throat of the gut, guard. They fill this cup up with all this blood. And Eisen has brought acid. So now everybody's still in the circle, but I got a flashlight. And I'm shouting that for, I'm shouting that for Eisen. And he's tearing

the tab off. Not everybody did acid. I didn't, of course. But he's tabbing and then they chase it with the blood, tab it, chase it with the blood. And we're going around the circle. And I remember Luke to be getting kind of nervous because he's like, he's already taken the tab and chased it with

the blood. And he's like, he could say, uh, I had a couple of beers before this. I've never done this before.

Is it okay if you have beer? What happens if you have beer? He's just going down. When what happens if you have beer? And yeah, I look at it. It's a little late. You're on it now.

“Just go for the ride. Yeah. The questions you should ask before. Um, so we get around. We're”

getting towards the end of the circle. And uh, big seeds, charts puking. And I'm like, okay, and it gets to me. I think I'm the last one. Uh, I can't remember if Eisen had done it yet. I made their last rises last, but he gets to me. And I look down on the cup and it's already coagulating. It's just chunky, cloudy, big that I'm like, oh, God, I don't want to turn that up. I don't want to do it. I'm going to get out of the peak. I don't want to do it. And I think

pastless gaming out. But either way, I just took two fingers and went deep into the blood, pulled them out, sucked all the blood off. And I think I brought it. Yeah, I carry the beer down there likely, so I chased it down with a beer. But uh, then they start commonsing to cutting the animal all the pieces, throw it stomachsack and then testins into the creek. Uh, what the fuck. Carry the head of guard around. There's, there's pictures everywhere. Like, um, it turns out

“that there was another infiltrator in the base, not law enforcement there. Um, they had infiltrated”

just before me. But it made sense once it came out because I'm like, how the hell do they get in these pictures, man? Because like, literally, we would do a training Halloween. And then like the next week, BBC and the Guardian, uh, overseas, they got me sitting right there doing a sick house, holding a machine gun, us holding the head of the goat with the flag, and everybody doing a sick house, or weapons video. You. Yeah. Yeah, but we're all wearing ballaclavas. And

then we black out our face because they're huge on an enemy because they don't want to get socks. So before a photo, before a photo shoot, which is really what it is, it might be like, hey, pale horse man, you can see your tats. I'm like shit, the shirts too short. I went over a cut black socks and made like sweat bands. I can cover that. If pestilence hair was sticking out, I'd be like, hey, you ponytails hanging out, man. How? Because they didn't want to be

doxed. We want to be in an enemy. So then, uh, the next day of training is football or screw because they are all, I mean, maybe like three people didn't do as and everybody's up high. I don't know. I did have fun messing with them with the head of garden when they were all high and stuff because I was bored. But, you know, I'm like, why did you do this? I'm leaving the face in there like shit, you know. But, uh, so the next day's shot, now Saturday comes. Now we're

back, now we're training. Uh, they pull out the wall they line everybody up, pull the wall out that they used to on me to wand everybody. They're going through people's tents and I'm thinking to myself, man, what if one of these dudes has something? Because they're holding as a gunpoint

going through it. I'm fine. I walk around up on like you gave me first man here. Um, and they patting

me down. But on that search, Luke's walking up and down the line with this with the revolver in his hand, ready to go. Punish snakes standing on a little hump. Maybe like to the corner of your room here. I want to hump with the, with the AR and it's like if you run, you're going to get shot, you know. It was an nervous moment for a lot of people and I was nervous because I'm like, what if one of these dudes has something in their truck or in their tent and these guys want to kill somebody?

can I effectively engage at this point? I don't know. These things have just run through your head.

Uh-huh. So we finished that. We did a lot more training, a lot more firearms and that night we go down back to the HolySpot, a Tiki Torx walk. It's all in a, it's all in a video that was released for propaganda, but we go down that night and start a bonfire and we burn American flag and we burn holybobbles. And while they're screaming, F. Your Jewish God, Death to America, F. Jesus. How are you dealing with those sons of Christ? I, yes, uh, tough.

I mean, all of it. Yeah, tough. Yeah. That was a little dark. How do you, I mean, how do you, what is, is that going through your head at all? Yeah. Um, yeah. And after, after this weekend, I didn't, I did text my pastor. I'm like, I know it's hard for growing man to reach out for help sometimes like good, but I could eat some prayers because I just did some stuff in the last couple of days and I just don't feel right, you know, but let me tell you

what happened. Uh, we're burning, uh, the Zimnac kid almost fell in the fire trying to burn the American flag. I grabbed the other side, hindsight, I probably should have let him go, you know, how to bad egg. I mean, look at him, watch for him as his own fire. He's own fire for Jesus, uh, but I did that and then I'm watching him put the bottles in, holy bottles face for opening up face up in the face up and putting that face down in the fire. So the fire starts building

up and eventually starts dying down in punished snake. He's just stuck in the coals. He's just stuck in the coals. Well, as you're stuck in the coals, you know how you can see like if you look at a magazine or something or a book that's been burning the fire, you see like the little afraid edges and you can see the sheets kind of. Well, he's stuck in the coals and stuck in the coals

“in the bone. A Bible opens up face open, not a page burning it. No, okay. No, and it's like, what?”

And like, no, I thought I saw you put that thing face first. Like, I'm pretty sure I saw that.

Well, the propaganda video shows that going down on the fire. Um, I got a picture, it's in the book. If you blow it up, that was taken because they were taking pictures. I took pictures that later on, I was just going to do pictures and I blew it up. When you blow it up, you can clearly see holy Bible in the middle of the fire. And, um, he starts tearing page by page gets this thing going and now the fire is going on again and we're out there. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey,

white power, all this stuff, sigile and fire starts down down again. And he starts stuck in the coals again. And as he's stuck in the leaf flips, and I'll be damned at the second Bible. Those are probably shouldn't say damned. But I'll be damned. He flips the Bible and it opens up, not a page burned to the point where one of the members of the base gets, man, these have and Bible's just won't burn. Now inside, I'm going to do it outside. But in my head, I was like,

"Well, say me sister, I have to get out of there." I'm thinking of what you're putting down. You know, I've heard people argue, well, some Bible's pages are made out of clay and they won't burn and I'm like, bro, whatever. I'm not, I watch the flag burn. I watch all kinds of stuff burn.

“It didn't burn. I wish I could have seen what it opened to, like wood book. That's what I was”

got. Yeah, wood book that'd be nice. If I could blow one up, I'd never found a picture where I could

like see him blow it up. But yeah, that was pretty amazing. But so at the end of that night, it's now Saturday night. Everybody's wandering down. Some people are leaving because they got long drives back. But I'd gained enough trust with pestilence and TNB. And I circled back on something that we had talked about. Of course, I knew what I was trying to find out because the case team knew as well is something we heard and we weren't sure what they meant. Circle back on it

when it's not. Not going to look suspicious. And I said, hey, man, we were talking about blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And however I worded it, they're like, yeah, we'll tell you, let's put the phone on airplane mode. Well, by this time, nobody's checking it. I got, yeah, it's on airplane mode. I don't even put it on airplane mode. If I go over and check it later, I'll be like, oh, I'm going to, I thought I put it on airplane mode. If you're not going to check it, I'm not going to

do it. But they were talking. And they said that they were playing in some things, like they have a list they're forming. But nobody said we're going to hurt anybody. And I'm like, okay. But

“I do remember pestilence looking at TNB and TNB kind of leaning and whispering the pestilence”

and then saying, yeah, I think we can trust Bell overs. And then now things are going. So

back. So now it's just back to our normal group, the four of us in the Georgia cell. There was a

“guy named Helter Skeleton there who claimed that he was the perfect, basically why some premises”

and hiding because he was an IT specialist, had a nine to five job and had a girlfriend Gordon to him. He was off the grid as far as being on anybody's radar. But for two years, he didn't want to kill somebody in an attack for two years. He's been wanting to come in the morning. Been preparing for this for two years. So we get, we get a DM just within the wrong Georgia group. And in that DM is telling us, hey, we're going on a camping trip, bring Bobo. But everything

red, it's exactly like we were going to be going out putting up posters except he said something to the effect of, but bring your weapons. And we're like, what the hell, why would I be bringing

my weapons if we're going out and put it? Why did he say that? And you know, I would like to find out

the case teams, but like to find out before I walk in there on a night and then find out something bad is going to happen. So I called Luke at the nudging of the case team in Atlanta.

“I called Luke on wire and I'm talking, I'm trying to find out what's going on. And he's just”

giggling. And I'm like, listen man, you know, I'm, I haven't told you everything I've done. You don't need to know what I've done, but what are we planning on doing? Is there something I would want to drive a different vehicle to it? Like, is there something I don't want my plates being sane, you know what I mean? Some have done come back to me. And he just giggle. I couldn't get nothing out of him. So that's Monday night. So it Thursday,

I call back doing the same thing. He's still giggling. And I'm like, bro, it's about to be

D-day crunch time, not D-day the way I've been mentioned it. Like we're about to be this date that he's saying we're going to the camping trip. And somewhere in the conversation, he says, I'll tell you if face to face is, I'll tell you, I'm just not going to talk about ever a phone. And I get, oh, how's tomorrow? Because I'm driving through there. I wasn't, but I am now. I get off the phone and him. I call the case team. I said, you guys ready for the

Mars. Let's go. So I drive over. And it's afternoon. And you know, I wake him up at the crack of two in the afternoon. And he comes down and I'm like, I said, morning sunshine. It's already waking from your beauty and after whatever. So we put our phones on airplane mode and stick on the cooler. He's got like a little, not a fair day bag because he's got something like plastic. He puts them in. I don't know if he thinks that does something or maybe it did. We walk

over to the edge of the morning. And I said, listen, you know, I'm a juxtry. And you know, I love that fun. But when it's trying time to do business, I'm serious. So what are we doing? And he says, essentially, we're going to whack some people. Kill somebody. And I said, well, that's way different than putting up flyers. And it's definitely nothing. I would want to drive my personal vehicle to him. And what in the hell? So he starts talking and telling me that him and personalists have

already identified several people. But this was a couple that they believe to be active in the Atlanta, Antifa, Antifa, anti-fascist group. And they wanted to murder them. And when I started looking at this plan and now I'm trying to slowing down. Now it's like, okay, like I'm murdered for hire. If a murder for hire somebody comes and hire me number one, I don't want them leaving without me getting the ticket. I want to make sure that I'm the guy that you want because

I don't need you leaving our meeting and you're going to want to listen to the other people to murder somebody. You know, I want to make sure I'm the guy. So now I've got him and he's explaining things to me and man compared to the operational security that he put into writing the rules for your your your bug out bag or the rules for putting up flyering. I'm like, this is just so haste and not operationally secured all. So I started trying to let him tell me what the plan was.

And then I pointed out to him, bro, why you hadn't even been by the place? No, and I'm like, and we're planning on doing this what in two days? He's like, yeah, and I go, I could why the haste, man, look at how thorough you was on this stuff. And he was like,

“or were on this stuff. And he's like, I'm just tired of waiting. And then I remember just like,”

I was on the outlaws case. I was a site survey specialist. And I said, let me do my work. I said, I'm down here. Anyway, I said, this is what I do. I pull, I mean, I'm pulling residential, I'm pulling schools, I'm pulling that nest of the I'm pulling crime rates, I'm pulling income, I'm pulling all kinds of stuff. I said, this is what I do when I'm doing a site survey. I said, I can do all that and get everything we need about that house. And it'd be like trying

to find a needle in a haystack. I said, because it's just going to look like I'm doing my job. And he's like, man, I like that, man, I like that. He even was so he wouldn't write anything down. He told me off a piece of paper. So no indentions. And he showed me the phone.

So I did that. I started doing research, helped her scale through how to get a back surgery.

“So just to just to shave the disc. So now we're gathering over to Acts and further itself.”

Luke has gone by the time we finished the plan. Originally, he just wanted me driving. But somewhere in there, he's doing all this research. I'm talking about like catch bags, bought four catch bags to go on our ARs. If we have to shoot them, the brass won't fall. Nothing for cops, right? Revolvers brass doesn't drop. Nothing for the cops. Made a silencer for, I'm pretty sure it was a 25. It wanted 20. I'm pretty sure it was a 25 semi-auto.

Made a silencer for it. That's going to be the headshot gun. We canvas the house three different times. I did it once with Luke. It was me, Luke, and past ones that did it. And then me, Luke, and helped her scale through went back one night and did it. You're hearing things like helped her scale through saying, hey, somebody asked, hey, or they're any kids in the house. Helter says, I haven't had problems shooting a comedy kid.

You're right now out there with Helter, and it was either Helter or Luke says, hey,

“I'll think Helter wants to pop his chair on this one and I'm driving it. I'm like, what?”

Pop your chair. I'm like, what are you talking about? I think it means two different things to us. This is no, he actually wants to put a bullet in one of them said, and I said, okay, I said, what's that 25? I'm like, yeah, this is probably going to take more than one shot. I think that's doable. So by the time everything finished, Luke had done research, and the idea was this. We were going to meet at a camp in sight.

We were going to leave all of our electronics, everything there, phone, watches, whatever, nothing electronic goes with you, stays at the campsite. We're going to go to a pay-by-the-hour motel. We're going to get in there. We're all going to shower. We're going to take a loofo. We're going to scrub. This is all his advice. This is all his research. Scrub any dead skin flakes off. We're going to do like hazmat. We're going to take our pants and we're going to blouse them

or put them over our boots and tape them. We're going to tape our gloves to our shirts. He even said the Vaseline facial hair. So you don't drop any hair. He had done enough research

to wear. He had read that a lot of people who murder somebody for the first time,

Luke's control their bowels. So he suggested we all wear depends. And guess, we lose control of our bowels when we kill these people. Holy shit. Now, you're going to hear counter-arguments that said, "Oh, Scott came up with that plan." I was just as shocked as everybody else was when I'm hearing this. I'm like, "I can't come

“up that shit." So when he said the defense part of the thing, I said, "I think I'll be all right.”

I didn't say I killed anybody." So I think I'll be all right. I don't need any diapers. He took that. I probably killed somebody. So he bumped me up on the list from driving to it was going to be, once we were ready, we're going to go. We're going to have a pick lock. If it didn't work, we're going to kick the door in. There was a bay window that protruded from the house a little bit. But it was a great spot to do Overwatch. And Helter was going to post there.

Me and Luke, this is why I was told we're going to go down. We're going to shoot the parents if there's anything else. We're going to do whatever. But of course, Helter wants to shop now too. And then the past folks are going to set the place on fire. Once we were done, and what I learned is that he was also creating a list and had journalist, left journalist, TV anchors. And I'm like, "You legitimately want to keep killing people."

And we're going to start taking out people who were kind of famous. He said, "Yeah." And I said,

"Well, it's a good thing we're doing this family first. It'll be a nice wham-up, if you will."

So while all that's going on, you've got other sales being created like in Michigan. And they're going out and doing stuff. And now they're doing propaganda videos. And they're putting up flyers. And they're talking crazy shit. And we might be on a wire call together. If we wouldn't have taken the case down of the base when we did, that the week we did it, that weekend I was going to be in Michigan training with those guys.

And bad acts, Michigan. So, and again, the recruitment videos are getting better and better. Better and better. I was another rule. Every video had to be way better than the last one. They did one. And it's got Congress. It's got scenes from congressional hearings. And they're talking about the base. They're talking about Pat being a scoundrel illegally in the United States. And we don't know where he's at kind of thing. But Pat and can't go back and eyes on

the group up there. Everybody was looking 2020 COVID year. Even the COVID was already here. They were calling it flu A and B, whatever. But January of 2020 was going to be a gun rights rally in Virginia. At that time, the governor was a Democrat. And was pretty strict on gun policy.

what if that's the kickoff to the bugle again, bugle being D day? And now we can just clean house.

“What if that's the kickoff to the bugle? And they had been planning on initiating.”

So the things we were picking up, we the FBI, they did that Baltimore career told you about. It's unbelievable. They did a wiretap. They tapped into the apartment of can't go back and punish snake. If I thought they talked crazy around me when we've been sitting talking crazy stuff, the stuff they spewed by themselves in that apartment, holy cow. I'm talking like that old 80s and maybe the boy's next door thing, man. It's like just violent.

They were talking about breaking out the saints. So in case you don't know, these accelerationists, they refer to your white supremacy mass shooters. It's saints.

I'm not going to say their name on your show because it's something we're doing in the

tactical world now. It says don't name them. So the Charleston Shooter, I'm not going to say his name. He doesn't need any more fame. I'll name every victim. I'm not going to name even though it wasn't white supremacy. I'm not going to name the Columbine kids names. I'll name the victims. I'm not going to name the Tree of Life Shooter. I'm not going to name the Christ Church Shooter. The Norway Shooter. But they have, Charleston, they literally have and maybe I can send it to you

if you want and you can post it when you put this out there. It is a leader board and it's the saints and it's got the Norway Shooter at number one, 77 and it's got the Christ Church Shooter. It's like 55 and it goes down. You got the Charleston Shooter at nine and it says saint, saint,

saint, the saint leader board. What are you going to do? What are you going to do to make the

board kind of thing? So we get them talking about breaking the saints out. As insane as it is, they're like, okay Charleston shooters and terror out Indiana. Let's put it up. They're pulling

“up the prison system and looking and going, okay, but what if we roll it out, awesome would it be?”

If the bugle of hits and we roll and it break out a saint, how awesome is the base going to be? And I told you they're talking about shooting cops. They're talking about, I mean they're just very, very dark stuff, man, cold burner. That means a white woman that's been with a non-white dude and he's like, I'll take that cold burner and put her, I can't wait to put her up on the wall and drop it going into her mouth and blow her head off. Crazy shit like that. But their plan was

is to go to the rally because you're going to have most likely anti-government. You're going to have some three percenters, which is not illegal, but you're going to have anti-government, militia type stuff. You're going to have antifa. You're going to have cops. What if you pop around off and nobody knows who she can hit and then have a certain everybody starts shooting each other. What's that? What if that's the kickoff to the bugle of? Again, not a lot of fourth order

afterthought. But I will tell you that in the base, ethnic states wouldn't like the entire state, but my crews, my crew and the sales of Maryland, Delaware and North Georgia, we were looking at property in the Appalachian Mountains to buy to create our own compound. The Detroit and North Midwest, they were looking in the upper peninsula of Michigan. They had already found some property. They had converted a former chief of police, who was no longer chief of police because of his

conflict of interest and his belief system. But they had recruited one of the base members' moms, who's a nurse. And they're talking about, well, this will be, I know it may sound crazy, but they're planning it. And they're talking about, well, this nurse, she's a nurse. She can help birth the kids and miss that and the other crazy stuff. Nizarra had property and Pacific Northwest. So, so we rolled into that and now we're on this timeline. We're on this

clock that's ticking. And can't, can't, can't the stars align? And let's take this thing down right without people getting hurt. We're hoping so. We're betting on it. And that last week, actually, the week, we were supposed to take it down. My back started spasming so bad. I couldn't get out of the floor. And I'm like, if it was an extremity, a leg or neck chest, I could, I could deal with it. I can't sit. So I can't even get on a plane. I went and went to my physical therapist. He gave me some

exercise to do. And I went electric stem 24/7 because apparently the pathway pain signal has to

“go through is the same pathway that the electricity uses. That's why the electric stem can kind of”

block that signal. I'll tell you what I found out. I thought it was a disk above my fusion. What I found out in January after we took the case down is my original lunch bar fusion in 2002. I had broke and they broke around. They said it probably around 2005. So I had to disconnect the back, broke back for 15 approximate 15 years. So we had to play sponored a week. So I jumped. I jumped

the next morning. I'm siding in, helping siding in the 6.5k more poorly, by the way. And siding a

ghost AR that they had built for a former Punish snake who's an undocumented ailing inside the United States. Actually, they messed up when they made it. It was doing a double fire. They went to the range and was going, but I remember like, I went back and fixed it. So it went and draw attention. So I'm there with them all day and I'm trying to get the final stuff that the case team needs. And I end up with them that night. We had a few drinks because I'm neat. And it's just,

it was for me, divine interventions, what I call it. But it had been fluid perfect. Like, I knew the case team needed a certain question answered. And the conversation would just present itself. And I got, oh, yeah, speaking to that blah, blah, blah, blah. Oh, yeah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Oh, yeah,

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I've got that. Got the next one. Got the next one at one point.

I'm pretty sure I found the hole where the camera was, because I knew the camera shot, you know, because I'd seen some of the videos that they'd gotten from the title three wiretap. But I'm sitting at a table and it's, I'm pretty sure it's me here. Can't go back there.

“Punish snake here. But I'm staring at the wall. And I think I finally found it.”

And when I got everything that they needed. I've been in the floor stretching, you know, back, all this stuff when I got everything. I kind of, I looked right at what I thought I'm pretty sure it was. I looked at it and I went, I took a drink and I went, because another watch from the other side, like we got everything. So I go from there, I drive back the Baltimore, get up the next day,

flight super delayed, fly to Atlanta, get to Atlanta, rental cars going, they take me to one office,

like they carry me to Uber, I take an Uber to an enterprise facility that's open. That's where they tell me to go. I go Uber drives off. I'm in the parking lot, the lights go off. I'm like, son of a man. So I had to go back, find a car, drove up to Atlanta. And that's when helped her shelter went with us that night and told us, you know, he wanted to pop his cherry, no problem killing comedy kids. He had built the silence or he had ordered the catch bags.

“And did that, I think I went home, but the next day I was back, because I'm meeting with a”

local swap teams on the take-down stuff. So the way it worked is that Wednesday we started the arrest. I went on a ruse because it's a hundred-acre land and it's not really an easy way to sneak up there. We just did a ruse where I took a loop to lunch. We figured that was the most disadvantageous place to hit out of all the places we were hitting. So I said, I was going to pick him up for lunch and I'd already laid out this thing where we don't need to be riding around

with guns on us because if we get stopped and that's fresh in their minds, when we get ready to do this thing, we're like, that's a great idea. So make sure we have no weapons. And as we're driving out, I went to a pretty determined spot that the swap team had picked. And I think that the truck messed up. And I was like, man, if that damn caliber froze again, because I really did have one. I said, hang on, I pull over. I pull up kind of next to a fence where you can't really

open the door. I get out. I walk around back like I'm looking. The truck pulls up. It's actually an FBI agent. But it's a ruse. And he says, hey, man, you need any help. And I look up and I get holy shit. How do you live here? Like I knew him. Man, where have you been? I ain't seen you in forever. Holy shit, man, what's going on? Here he is. Man, that is eight. I'm walking like that. That is eight nice truck while I'm doing that. Luke's looking at us but the bear

cat vehicle has coming over the hill with a swathing. So it was a rest without any answer. I jumped in the back of the truck and said, go, go, go. They're on him on top of him. He put his hands up. No tear gas in the truck. Now that's tough. Take him off. And then they go in a rest, pestilence at his house. And they pick health or skeleton up, leaving the work. We keep it very quiet. Because Thursday morning, early morning, they him. The watching to build off a swap

team hit Eisen's place. The Baltimore Swat team hit Can't Go Back and Punish Snake. And then from there, now starting to unravel. So Friday, I'm in the main group and I'm here and I'm watching the chatter. What does this mean? You see, we've got members arrested, blah, blah, blah, now the affidavids coming out through the day. And it's like, man, it says there's a Fed in here.

“It says that a FBI undercover has infiltrated this group and they're like, who's a Fed?”

This is when you see it going and going and going. And about five o'clock on Friday, Roman comes on and says something to the effect of, I don't think we could have done anything to figure him out or out him because he's one of our best members. And as soon as he starts saying that type of thing, I'm like, oh, he does this me now. He's going back and he's like, okay, who came in and July or whatever, you know, when he's looking probably listening to the recordings.

And then it says, as soon as you talk to that, I get off, he does this me now. And it says,

it to all the case teams and said, and I'm out. But like I told you, there was another

“infiltrator. The coverage after we saw that there was still chatter in the room and it was like,”

man, you mean pale horse is the Fed? And then one guy's like, there's another way. That's one of the most solid media Nazis I met. And then another one was like, is that the dude with a deep voice on the call? And they're like, yeah, and they're like, man, there was something really endearing about him. So I'm like, they really do like me, you know? But yeah, we arrested those. We picked up some more on the animal cruelty stuff. We picked up some more on Tag and the synagogue. And didn't get

Nizarra. I'm sure he's still on that fly. I mean, he's got to be. But that was that case, man. Yeah, that was that case. Like I said after that, I mean, we can, that's dark. Yeah, I would come back to

people and I'd get, I'd get man, I've been working undercover off in Osis, 1996. I said, I have never

been with a group of people where I had to burn holy bottles, burn American flag, damn sure what were the group of people that went and stole a guy sacrifice at a ritual and drank his blood. And I said, I've done all that in like three days with these people. We got to find something. But yeah, it was, it was good and eventually after the aftermath, they, the UK arrested a 13-year-old kid for, they have a domestic terrorism statute. And it was a member of the base. And yeah, it was

like the youngest to rest 13 years all the time. The youngest to rest, they've ever done, ever there. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So it's now February, 2020. I'm in Arizona and I'm putting on training for online covered employees that are going to be working domestic terrorism types

stuff. They can't do face-to-face meets, but they can go in type of way. And they all, I'd always

heard that when it's time for you retire, you'll know. I never really knew what that meant. I mean, obviously, I can picture what it means, but I never, how would that feel? Because our cutoff age at the FBI is 57. And I saw myself working in the 57 and then trying to extend maybe a year or two on a specialty. Like if I'm the undercover coordinator for the state of Tennessee, maybe there's an argument to me now, keep him in other year to bring train somebody up.

That was my plan. But I'm sitting there and it was my birthday February 13th and we were out

“and my cohorts that were helping put on the training as well. We all went out and I remember sitting”

there in the restaurant and I don't know what the conversation was or what I was thinking, but it was like a brick in the face man, bam, hit me and just this thought came across my mind that I'm satisfied with my career. And then I'm not saying I've done it all and I'm the beyond.

And none of that, I'm just saying I'm satisfied and I've never said that. And then the COVID,

they wouldn't let you go to work. I'm like, well, you mean I can't go to work. So I was forced to sit at home, which is something I would never do. So it gave me an idea and a picture of what retirement might look like sitting at the house, making exactly what I'm making now because you got a thrift savings plan and you got a pension and and I pushed it out of 50. I retired. I retired June 30th of 2021. Damn, dude, that's a hell of a career. Yeah, and I made bond back in, we'll see,

not FBI. I won't good fit, but I made bond back in, even if it's just a help of training or something. I got a I got a buddy. He's he's going to be the next sheriff. Yeah. So let's say. But, um, and I've done some stuff. I've, I've been on movie sets. I've actually been the armor on a set. I was on set security. I actually helped with the weapons, making them for the movie. And I did a cameo. I got my first kill. I got, I got one shot gun pistol grip shot gun

kill to the back from somebody leading my gun still. And he died. I was right next to my motorcycle. Wow. And they hit number, they actually hit number two on drama on Amazon or proud. Yeah, Amazon proud. Yeah, pretty good. Pretty funny to see the weapons and you're like, hey,

“but that was before rest. And I mean, how about, how prominent is this?”

The base, the 7, 6, 4 stuff is getting bigger. It's shrinking. You know, I think you're always going to see people even around. Some of these grips aren't big. I'm not going to tell you, like I've read it. I think it was my article. There's like, there's a million, neo-Nazi. There's a million why it's a premises and they're all going to be on your doorstep tomorrow.

I mean, I'll say it's up there, but I didn't ever work anti for, or an anti government

separatist group, you know, that that I don't know. I don't know if it's the biggest threat, but from when I was working it, yeah, I thought it was. But as far as sizing growth, I'm not going to say it's huge, huge, huge, but sometimes you'll see the names. And it might be, I mean, let's say it's me. Pale horse and all of a sudden, I pop up in a new white supremacist telegram group or something and somebody might be like, hey, were you perhaps,

pale horse and the other group? Yeah, that's me. So you see that kind of, that kind of lingering staying around. But again, I've done groups that I've been in undercover and they're white supremacists in neo-Nazi group, not accelerationists, but neo-Nazi national socialist. And five months, I've read every single post, thousands, thousands of posts, didn't want to miss a single one because I wanted to make sure. But at the end of that five months, I go to the

“case team and I'm like, it's just first to remember, protect the speech. They're spewing some hate”

and some horrific stuff, but it's protected into the first amendment. And then you move home. So my

thing is, I say this, and this goes for like all extremism, especially when you get into like the lone wolf type stuff, which is what things like the siege tell you to do. Don't go out on the street corner with a pick at sign yelling. Number one, you're identifying who you are, making yourself a target. Number two, you're doing nothing. Go do that hidden attack kind of thing. Like Pat, who said he was a ghost. He said, I can literally take, we could create a ghost house to house

our brothers who have been ducks. And we can become a ghost hit team, lay out there with a revolver, like a homeless person. You learn the pattern. Next day, they're walking through Pat, walk off,

give these stuff like that. They're coming up with all kinds of crazy stuff like that. But what I will

say is this, just don't underestimate. If I showed you a picture of the kids from calling by the shooters before that happened, what would you say? If I showed you a picture of the Aurora theater shooter before that happened, what would you say? How about the Charleston kid with the bowl haircut that could barely feel, I mean, he couldn't even fill up a ghost gym tank top, holding a rebel flag in a 45 at his hand. What would you say it? But yet they all kill people.

After all your time at the bureau and everything you've done, I mean, what advice do you have for families? I don't like walking around on the eggshells living in fear, but don't put blinders on either. You know, I'm not saying be a helicopter parent per se, but like I said earlier,

“if your kids own a headset, on-road blocks in Minecraft, you need to be talking to. There's some”

great stuff out there. There's a company called bark. I actually installed it on my girls' phones when they were younger, but maybe I don't know how many people they got working for them, but it will flag and they even have their own phones now. So you got a bark phone. You give that to your kid and it's got a lot more avenues for you to thwart bad people within the various plans coming in. But I'm going to be putting it on my girls' phones and I mean it would. You can make it as sensitive

as you want. If it's suicide talk, sex, talk, weapon talk, no talk, anything. It'll flag it, screenshot it, send it right to you. Yeah, I'm actually working on an application with my friend Ryan Montgomery because we uncovered all this stuff with 764, a lot of pedophilia stuff. We're coming out with an app, we're working on it right now. Good. Because that's where they're going to go. Like even in the Napster days, right? You go on Napster or these peer-to-peer

networks. And I would go down to the eye-cack, innocent, you know, images group. There was a task force that's working the crowns against children. And it would be like drinking from a fire hydrant. If you went on there and you saw how many people were sending photos to each other. And then how some of them are known victims that we've identified and stuff like that. And now with AI and these, I mean they're making like, I saw one the other day. It's like, I don't know.

“It's like a robot woman. But it's as soon as I looked at it, I went, oh gosh, because I think”

like a bad person. I can't. I can think about the sick minds and what they were going to, I'm like, I know it was going to be getting those dolls for sure. Man. And if they're doing that, how long before they try it on a real person. And I will just tell you my experience with pedophiles. If they're truthful, they'll tell you, I can't be fixed. For me, as a Christfiler, short of a miracle from God. But I've had them be truthful and say, if you let me out, I'm going

try to be an optimist. I've been depressed. Yeah. Can I get down on myself every now and then? Yeah.

“But I wake up the next day and I try to just, because you can, there's so much”

best of out there. You can just ruin your whole life. Make you want to crawl into a room and

never come out. Do, let's still get out there. Yeah. Keep fighting the good fight.

“Problems, right? Keep fighting the good fight. Thanks. So Scott, it was an honor to be a man.”

Thank you, man. It really was. Maybe maybe I'll circle back

when there may be some announcements. Let's see. I got some stuff in the works. Let's see.

“I hope. Well, I'm looking forward to hearing from it. God bless. You too, man. Thank you very much, man.”

Appreciate it. No matter where you're watching the Sean Ryan show from, if you get anything out of this at all, anything. Please like, comment, and subscribe. In most importantly, share this everywhere you possibly can. And if you're feeling extra generous, head to Apple Podcasts and Spotify and leave us a review.