Congressman Reveals the Moment Bondi Went Silent on Trump & Epstein

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Welcome to the Tara Polmary Show. We have a special guest, Congressman James Wachensha, from the 11th District of Virginia. He is a member of the House Oversight Committee and crucially.

He was in the room today during Pambon D's not sworn interview.

“Let's just remember that she blew off a subpoena to speak before the committee on camera.”

So that if she lied, she would purge herself and there would be consequences. And Republicans decided instead to allow her to do a closed door interview. And we won't find out all the details for a few days when there's a transcript that comes out. So that's why we've got Congressman Wachensha on the show to really tell us what happened behind closed doors. Thanks so much for joining.

Thanks for having me. What was it like in there? I was tense. I mean, you know, folks have probably seen Pambon D and her in her public hearings.

Where she was incredibly, almost comically aggressive and combative.

She was a little bit more subdued today. But you could tell anytime just like in the public hearings when she faced a question. That was really uncomfortable for her, which for which she didn't have a good response. She went to her kind of defense mechanism, which was to get aggressive and combative. But, you know, I think on the democratic side, we did a good job of asking very specific and pointed

questions forcing her at least to avoid answering or refused to answer those pointed questions. And she deflected a lot today. Yeah, I mean, that time when she was live on TV in a, you know, on camera hearing last time we saw her. She was talking about the Dow. Yeah.

I had to look up this morning what the Dow was at today just so I would be prepared for her to work that out. Exactly. And she was telling members, she didn't want to get in the gutter with them. When talking about the Epstein story, well, number of survivors were behind her and she didn't acknowledge them.

“It was pretty, I mean, it was so dark. It was comical. I think that's why SNL had a field”

day with it. But I wondered if maybe behind closed doors, now that she's no longer attorney general, now that President Trump isn't watching, that maybe she might be more, I don't know, useful. But then again, she's not under like, she's, this is not a testimony. There, she did not have to, it's where and oh, to tell the truth. Yeah, now still, if she, you know, anything she said today turns out to be false, it's still against the law to lie to Congress,

even in that less formal setting that we had today. I mean, the biggest loss in this format is there's no video. So the American people won't be able to judge for themselves other than reading the transcript, hopefully early next week, when it comes out. But as you know, there's, there's a lot of nuance and body language and just aspects of it to miss if there's not a video. And I think it's all part of the cover up. I mean, she was subpoena to have a deposition,

just like the Clintons did, by the way, on video under oath. The Republican chairman James Comer let her off the hook and gave her a private transcribed interview. It was interesting today. I mean, you know, she, she almost went out of her way to refer questions to Todd Blanch. You know, close to throwing him under the bus and some instances. Yeah, her successor, the acting attorney general who ascends to,

“what sense of leave will probably be the attorney general because I think it'll be difficult for”

President Trump to go through another confirmation process. I'm going to turn you general. They don't have a lot of interesting, you know, Bondi was accompanied today by Harme Dillon. Yeah. They're the part of the justice, which is odd for a number of reasons. And Bondi's a private citizen today after being fired by Donald Trump. But Harme Dillon was there and it was clear.

Harme Dillon's role was to prevent Pam Bondi from answering any questions that could be embarrassing to Donald Trump at the Department of Justice. And she intervened a number of times and said she's not going to answer those questions. And I think one of the things Harme Dillon is doing is auditioning

attorney general. So there's always some soap opera drama taking place with the Trump administration

“we saw it before our eyes today. Can you give us some examples of when she blamed Todd Blanch?”

Yeah, specifically with respect to the all of the information 70 plus survivors that we've heard from who had their information revealed in the files, right? And their information was supposed to be redacted, protected. Democrats had a hearing in Palm Beach a couple weeks ago and one of the survivors there shared with us that her story of being sexually abused was revealed to the world for the first time when the files were released. It was the first time her family were in there.

When the files were released and Pam Bondi today said all of that was up to Todd Blanch. And she regrets the fact that mistakes were made, but Todd Blanch was the one running that operation and overseeing it and making those decisions. Obviously one of the things she did by using his name so many times is create even more pressure to try to get him to come in and have a deposition or if the Republicans insist to transcribe interview like this and Democrats are going

to be pushing for that. Just to be clear, Pam Bondi denies that she said not true. I praised acting attorney general, his management of this curriculum task. I said his ethics are beyond reproach

and that he is an incredible attorney general. I guess we will see in the transcript how many times

his name is mentioned when we get that transcript. Now, what did she say about President Trump

“behind closed doors? Well, this was actually, I think it's kind of a bombshell. She was asked”

very specifically and pointedly was President Trump aware of Jeffrey Epstein's crimes before they became public, right? And obviously we know Trump and Epstein had this long relationship friendship. They were described by best friends by some throughout the 1990s close relationship. They hung out together, went out together, maybe had a falling out at some point. She was asked this question and I expected her to say absolutely not Donald Trump. He said Donald Trump has said

probably many times he didn't know anything about Epstein's crimes. I know Donald Trump if he knew someone was committing crimes like that. He would do something. She didn't say any of that. She said, "I don't know," and she said, "I don't have enough information to know what what he knew." And that was a strange response. I suspect that's one that she's probably already heard from the White House about that and she'll be issuing some kind of statement to clean that up and say,

"Of course, President Trump didn't know anything about Epstein's crimes." But that's kind of a shocking thing for her to say. She didn't know whether Trump knew that Jeffrey Epstein was raping

“and abusing girls in young women. I do remember when I interviewed Brad Edwards. You might know”

as a lawyer who represents many of the victims. He did speak to Donald Trump. He was going to subpoena him in the case because he knew how close they were. His crime victims writes that case. He told me in an interview that I conducted in 2019 that Donald Trump told him that he remembered going to Epstein's house and seeing a number of girls that were young. He said that he asked Epstein about it and Epstein said, "It's a big brother, big sister program." Now, when we believe this,

I don't know. This was not taken under oath by the way. This was just him offering to give information to Brad instead of doing a deposition. But come on, everybody knew about Epstein. Yeah, I'm fond of you. Sometimes people ask me, "What is the real truth here?" This is one of those stories where when you pull a thread, you reveal more threads to pull

and you feel like you're never getting to the full truth. One conclusion that I have drawn

having been kind of immersed in this for the last year now is, I just don't believe that people like Donald Trump and others who were in Epstein's circle at the time, especially going back to the 90s, had no idea what this guy was up to.

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simply because the next check-out is out. That is why the stuff possible. We can debate whether others were involved, how involved, engaged, but the idea that you didn't know is just kind of laughable on its face and I don't buy it.

“I mean, Virginia, due for I said she met Donald Trump through Epstein. That's what she told me at least.”

And I just, you know, what she was working at Marlava, right? This is all hard to believe, but I do want to get into other people in the administration that may have been brought up. Howard Lutnik, he's obviously been deeply entangled into this as well. Did she talk about him? He came up in the context of the famous or infamous photo of Lutnik on Epstein's island, right where they're on the cliff. And that photo was temporarily redacted or removed from

the files. And she gave the explanation that Todd Blanche gave publicly that he, Todd Blanche, concluded that was an AI photo. And that's why I decided to take it down.

And when he realized it was a legitimate photo, he reposted it. Of course, the reality is he took

it down because it was Howard Lutnik. He reposted it only after he got called out by the media. He could go saw the photo and then learned that Lutnik went to the island. So that was a context in which Howard Lutnik came up today that photo. Yeah, and she just said, Todd Blanche, she'd land, I mean, again. Yes, she did say Todd Blanche is a very ethical man, but she also said, Todd Blanche thought the Howard Lutnik Epstein photo was AI generated,

“and that's why he had it taken down from the files in the website. And that would have somehow ended”

up in the hands of the FBI. Yeah, right. Yeah. I mean, good question. Yeah, someone sent the FBI and AI generated photo. You know, and all the people Howard Lutnik, like, I just seems random to me. Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. I think it's, I mean, I think it's patently obvious that, you know, Todd Blanche or someone else in the administration said, oh, we got a photo of Howard Lutnik here. Do we really want to post that and create a huge firestorm? Maybe we should try

to redact it? Oh, it's amazing that he's been saved. I think mainly because President Trump is trying

to ignore this until that someone fall would also then create another barrier. That would drop a barrier to him. Tom Crown pointed out, AI photo before 2019. At point. Yeah. At point I don't know, maybe they were they had an advanced advanced access to Chatchee BT or something. I don't know. Yeah. And did she talk about Caspatelks? I know that they were at odds in the middle of the summer during the Epstein files release. Yeah. You know, Caspatelk came up in the context, like going all the way

back to early mid 2025, right, with the so-called client list, the binders of the Epstein files,

“the review. And I think this is actually an important point. You know, at March 2025,”

the FBI in Winchester, they have by some accounts 500 or a thousand agents out there reviewing the 100,000 files in the kind of initial trudge. And, you know, there's been significant reporting, a whistleblower who came forward to Senator Durbin saying that in that review, they were instructed to flag mentions of Donald Trump among others, right? And it was shortly after that based on Wall Street Journal reporting, Pam Bonnie went to President Trump and said, you know, Mr. President got bad news

for you, you're in the files. I have to point blank if those agents were directed to flag mentions of Donald Trump, they're not reviewing. And she gave, maybe it's a non-deniled denial. She said she couldn't recall. She didn't think there were any flags of Donald Trump or any mention of flagging things for Donald Trump. She didn't quite say no. She didn't go quite far enough

to skirt that issue. You know, I think it's also obvious there. They were flagging mentions of Donald

Trump, so they would know what they needed to be prepared for, right? Fied how to manage the situation. And then she went and told Donald Trump that he's in the files, and then they started trying to shut it down and cover it up. . Letnik Patel Todd Blanche, she periodically would refer to Donald Trump's OVIDI chance of attractive surprise. Also, let's not even get a fan bonus in the revamp. No, it's not 18. It's not. Anyone else? The administration? That was brought up.

Letnik Patel Todd Blanche. She periodically would refer to the U.S. attorney in the Southern

“District of New York. I think it's Clayton, you know, who at various points has referenced potentially”

an open investigation or opening uninvestigation. But those were the only administration figures that

came up, and she had some points in the interview after consulting with Harme Dillon would say, I'm not going to talk about any conversations I've had with anyone in the Trump administration. This, of course, after describing a number of conversations she had with Todd Blanche about the review and release of the files. So we got shifting explanations for her refusal to answer specific questions. And what did she say about Jay Clay, and he's the, he's the executive director of New York U.S. attorney,

when she was asked about whether there were open investigations into specific individuals.

“Less Wexner, Leon Black, he would say, well, you know, you have to talk to”

the U.S. attorney Clayton. I don't have any knowledge. I'm not going to comment on potential open investigations whether they exist or not. Did Melania come up at all?

No, Melania did not come up. Did any other names where they mentioned that we've never heard

before any new information you've never heard before? Not, not new names. No. What about new information that you've never heard? I mean, I've never heard her say she doesn't know whether Donald Trump knew that Epstein was committing crimes. That was new information to me. But under the net, you know, I think most of her answers were either things that she said publicly or when she didn't want to answer or didn't know the answer. She would say, you know,

that's a Todd Lange question, basically, or I'm not going to talk about my conversations with

“with Donald Trump. I mean, honestly, I think if you kind of looked at all of her answers,”

I mean, look at the transcript. She comes across as a little bit disconnected from the details of the files and the work to release the files. Now, whether that's accurate or not, I think that's the impression that she creates. Got it. She wants some distance. But did she say anything that contradicts her prior statements? Because as we know, I've got the files on the client. I've got the list on my desk. And then there's no list. Case closed. What has, you know, did she

contradict herself again? She gave the same explanation that on that that she's given publicly, which is, you know, she said they're on my desk to review along with, you know, the MLK files. And I don't know the JFK files. So she was, she wasn't saying that there's a list. She was saying there's something on my desk to review. And I'll let you know whether it's a list. I think if you watch the video of what she actually said, she was kind of playing to the crowd at the moment

and all of these folks that Donald Trump had gotten hyped up around the idea of an Epstein client list, and she was telling them what they wanted to hear. And I think that, you know, kind of is an important thread through this. It's easy to forget now that like a lot of this enthusiasm for the files and the so-called client list was generated by people like Trump, Cash Patel and Pam Bondi. And then they kind of got to a point where they can no longer control it and they tried to clamp

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especially in Anne-Bauge-Bieten. Full Monday, Arômen, Dank Innovative Press Brutechn Logie and über 17-Sorten Café for every joke. Elepe Premium Café is already in 1920 Euro. And there's the Cuba-Capsule Machines in Diner Chibufiale and of Chibu D.E. Did she explain why they managed to redact the names of men like that sultan Ben Suleman and a minority business man who says he likes a torture video and yet they didn't

redact the names of survivors. Did Chibu explain why they went out of their way to redact the

names of these men? Anytime she was asked about a specific redaction, she would say, "I don't

know in that level of detail, right?" That would be a Todd Blanch question. The bus? Yeah, well yeah, I mean, yeah, but she did make the broad stroke argument that they have made for the redactions or the lack of full release of the files and one issue they cite is, you know, this concept of privilege, right? So they made a decision that they could

“redact or not release files based on on privilege and, you know, I'm not an attorney, but I think”

it is a highly questionable argument in the context of the Epstein Files Transparency Act.

Privileges kind of a common law concept that you can restrict release of information if it might

impact some other investigation or proceeding, right? It is generally accepted. The Epstein Files Transparency Act lays out the reasons that they cannot release or redact information in detail. Yeah. It doesn't list privilege as one of those reasons. Very confident, you know. The legislative intent is very clear. Privilege ain't a reason to withhold or redact information and yet they're doing it anyway. I think that's an issue that in a future Congress, you might see a legal battle

over because I'd like to test that in court, Democrats being in the minority, we can't do that right now.

“But will she play any real con, like will she pay any real consequences for this?”

Well, look, you know, she may have already, even though I believe Donald Trump is, you know, directing this cover up explicitly or implicitly. I think she got fired because he got frustrated at the way that it's going. He got frustrated at the continued media attention. Her mishandling of it and bungling of it in some ways. She got fired. Legal consequences, you know, different question. Again, I think in the future Congress, we're going to have to have a new

subpoena for her and others to really get to the bottom of why some of these decisions were made and who directed them and who's responsible because the law was violated, you're no question.

“All right. Well, thank you so much for your time. I hear you have to get to the airport, but I would”

love to keep talking. Thank you, Congressman Walkin Shaw, for your insight on what happened inside of the room. Of course, you can support the show by hitting the subscribe button, liking, comment. Share with your friends. Go to Tararopol Mary. Become a paid subscriber to get exclusives and thank you for, for giving us the scoop. Thanks, Sarah. Appreciate it. I have a great weekend. Bye. Hi. I'm Tampson Fidel, journalist and author of How to Manipause and host

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