Royal Bombshell: Sarah Ferguson’s Alleged Relationship With Diddy Began Through Ghislaine Maxwell

This is the music for your ears. Today we have a steamed royal biographer and friend of the show Andrew Laumni. I think he's back for your third or fourth time and it's so incredibly disturbing here.

Yeah, we're always happy to have you. Andrew's book entitled "The Rise and Fall of the House of York" is an investigative joint biography of Prince Andrew and his ex-wife Sarah Ferguson.

And tomorrow you can buy an updated paperback edition containing, I would call it a sensational 37 new pages of material exploring their ongoing entice, their extravagant lifestyle. And of course, their links to Jeffrey Epstein. But here's my question, Andrew. Can you actually buy this book in paperback in the United States? Yes, I mean, the problems of the Hobbit, because sound is just a cancel the contract just before publication.

“But this has now been distributed by my UK publisher, "Hopper Collins" and you should be able to buy in Walmart.”

It should be in book shops and it certainly should be available online with Amazon and others. Can you explain to our reader some of the backstory about why you had difficulty even publishing this book and why so many people had to just read it online? They couldn't get access to it for months. Well, it's a good question. I mean, I'm taking some shifts. Yeah, I'm taking some shifts as a court to find out why they cancelled in such a caveaway and kind of destroyed my US publication.

So we'll know then, but I did try and self-published the book, but it was a corrupted file that I was given to upload and actually that didn't work very well.

“So it was difficult. I think there were some third party sellers who were sending copies, but otherwise it was very difficult to get a hold of the book.”

I mean, there was an audio version by Blackstone and I'm just hoping that this new edition will give the, you know, readers in the States and in Canada a chance to read the book, which they were denied at the Hobbit stage. Why, why were they denied? What did the publisher tell you? Why wouldn't they, why wouldn't they publish it? Well, they weren't very clear about that. They claimed that it was unreadable, but the version that was published in the version I delivered to them was about 1% difference.

I mean, that was mostly legal changes. They could easily have offset off the Hobbit console edition.

There were no problems anywhere else in the world. I've never in the course of 40 years of writing books ever had anything turned down.

So I think there was some other agenda going on, which, which hopefully will discover when the case comes up in the autumn. Does this have any hint with Malania Trump and you're reporting on her? No, it doesn't. I mean, the reference from Lanya Trump was only discovered or any of the president only complained about it after the book was published and that was never an issue before that. So, and of course, we've now found with the Epstein releases that what I put in about Malania was proved to be true, but I think the publishers didn't really want it to get a fight legal fight, which would be expensive and time consuming.

So we took it out, but it doesn't mean it wasn't true. What was the reporting? Well, it was about how Malania met Trump, which is a story that I think, is some treat people. I mean, it's a say being reported. I think she also threatened to sue Michael Wolff and Michael Wolff counter sued. But I had to follow the what the publishers wanted to do it ironically, they were not, they were,

have it gone, they only had the British rights, but they felt that because the what might get into the state's various ways, that it was more proven to take out that line and that's fine. I mean, they were, they're responsible for my legal position. So, I mean, I have to follow what they say. Yeah, so specifically the reporting was, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, you had reported that Malania Trump was in a relationship with Jeffrey Epstein or at least engaged with him sexually. And then he introduced him to Donald Trump after that.

“Yeah, that's why I'm just standing from my source. I mean, I didn't say it was true. I just said that's what Epstein boasted.”

And of course, you can't always believe everything that Epstein said, but I believe I was just said that I can't abide and there's also been was also threatened with being sued.

But still intriguing. So now you know why Andrew Lownie's book. It took a while for us to get it in America. But in some ways, I think, worked the way because the reckoning this latest chapter is really quite revelatory. And it is backed by the Epstein files that have been released.

And so many of them have come out since August. That is when we saw content Drew essentially, well, I'm going to just call him Andrew. We shouldn't be called Prince Andrew anymore.

“But Andrew loses title. And so can you kind of explain to me when the reckoning began and what triggered it?”

Yeah, well, the real reckoning was the release of the Epstein files at the end of last year. I think it's just seeing in very clear detail. I mean, him, all this detail pictures of him leering over young girls, sharing confidential information. All those things just, you know, was the final layer on the coffin. And it was gratifying to see that a lot of those calm moments backed up what my own sources had taught me. But I mean, in some ways, it's been a snowball effect.

I mean, the press got more and boldened. There were leaked emails in the autumn about how long Andrew and Sarah had known Epstein revealing that they've been telling lies.

I think Virginia Jiffrey's book was very important. It kind of humanized the whole story. You know, we suddenly saw the impact on someone. And, you know, from a very respectable Ghostwriter, very, you know, very moving profound books. So, you know, I think it was just a drip drip feed that was forced the British royal family to act. And then, you know, more, more, more exchanges came out as more and more of these releases emerged. And, you know, I hope there will be more releases and they said they won't.

“But also as we begin to study, you know, these millions of pages, I think we'll discover more and more, we're discovering that was a bigger network that was realized.”

Lots, lots more people were targeted. And it's moving, I think more from a story about sexual trafficking and financial manipulation to one about national security.

There's new material in the book based on an FBI report, dated 15th of January this year about Andrew being basically targeted by Russian criminal gangs and run by Russian intelligence services and that he kind of willingly cooperated with them in their activities because they provided what he wanted, which was money and women. And also these FBI files that you've looked through also suggest that Epstein was involved in those Russian ties and that he was both working for Russia and Israel correct.

“Yes, I think, you know, there's always been big suspicions about how he made his money.”

The now claims, including from a forward British intelligence agents, that, you know, he was a Russian asset, but clearly had very close connections with Israeli intelligence as well. And that, you know, isn't surprising often these intelligence agencies will will cooperate or and people will be sort of operating as freelancers and into the highest bidder or sharing the information among several agencies. So that's not surprising. But, you know, it is worrying. I mean, the fact that the so little accountability around members of the British or family means that they can easily be targeted by foreign powers. And this is clearly what's happened with with Andrew. I mean, both Chinese and Russian agents were very much in his own garage.

So Congresswoman Nancy May suggested that Andrew should be prosecuted on US soil or the sex crimes. What's stopping that from happening? Are there diplomatic back channels right now or is it just there's no political will behind it because President Trump was so close to both Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein? Yes, well, I think that's a suspicion that some deal has been done and Trump is not going to deliver up Andrew. I mean, we've got a situation at the moment where the DOJ is not giving the metropolitan police the unredacted emails and files that would be helpful in the met in their investigations into Andrew.

In some ways, this is just tip for tap because the British weren't very cooperative when the Americans wanted under neutral legal assistance treaty to have access to material. So, you know, some childish games are being played and clearly some deals have been going on behind the scenes. But, you know, this is an outrage for the victims that, you know, these people are not being held to account. I think someone has actually said to me that Andrew could be prosecuted in the States for because a lot of these crimes took place in the States and even though he's a British citizen, it doesn't save him from being prosecuted.

I think we've got a whole series of charges, could be laying at him. I mean, if everything from Maleficence and Public Office, which is basically behaving badly in a public office through to sex trafficking, I think the most likely is something to do with fraud or with breaking the official secrets act.

And there's now being investigated by Surrey police. So, it looks like a sort of effort by the law enforcement here to at least to be seen to be doing something. But the danger is this is all going to take years by the time many charges are perhaps even leveled. There will be in a new rain and it will be a completely different scenario. Right. Do you Sarah Burr asks, is Trump doing this to appease Charles King Charles that it's his brother? Well, I think there is there is a suspicion that there were some chats behind the scenes also to do with not revealing Harry's visa and whether he taken drugs and claimed to have taken drugs or not.

“So, I think, you know, there were, there were, there were various things going on during that official tour the other day that perhaps I haven't been reported.”

But yeah, Trump doesn't want the story to come out. I think he has a great deal of admiration for the Royal Family. He was, as you say, friendly with Andrews to play golf together, they used to swap notes about massers that they light. I think he's probably protecting Andrew. And, you know, this is an outrage because, you know, the victims want to see justice done and even those who are not victims feel that the law has to be served. So, in this episode, we, I mean, what I found to be quite interesting on top of the many revelations is this convergence of two of the biggest, you know, sex crime scandals in our country in a very, very long time.

The, the story of, of Sean Combs or Diddy, he's the disgraced rapper who in 2025 to last year was found guilty on two counts of transportation for prostitution.

And he's been sentenced to 50 months in prison. And Glenn Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein, we, you're, you're reporting is that Sarah Ferguson met Sean Combs through Glenn Maxwell at one of her events.

“And it started a sort of, you call it secret friends with benefits relationship beginning in 2004 and lasted for years. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?”

Yes, I mean, it came after I, you know, after the whole back came out came from from,

from from Sarah Ferguson, and then I was able to kind of follow it up with people in PDD's alteration fact. It didn't begin in 2002. I've discovered that Sarah was attending the PDD's party in 1998, so it actually goes back in earlier four years. They didn't meet at Galeens. I got that wrong. But, you know, there are lots of pictures of them together. And when she took Eugene, age 16 to the oddies, Beatrice went to the launch of the fragrance unforgivable, which was supposedly inspired by Sarah Ferguson.

It kind of didn't surprise me in the end, because he was kind of drawn to to British royalty. He liked, you know, getting close to them.

She was drawn to that celebrity world. She has a long history of being interested in doing sort of bad boys like PDD. She actually had rappers used to perform at her children's birthday parties. She gets these fixations. She kind of followed Tiger Woods across America. She often denies these relationships and they proved to actually be true. So, in the when it came to it, having thought this is a bit surprising. And you know, there she was. She was one of the first people to greet Epstein when he came out of prison. If not the first, she took her young daughters off to meet PDD in another sex offender who's in prison.

“And I think what I thought is important to tell the story is, here's someone who presents herself as a good mother and as someone who is protecting a people who've been trafficked when you've been trafficked.”

And it's made a reputation with with charity supposedly to protect them. And here she is consulting with some of the best-known sex predators in the world. And it's not a good look, I have to say. And so I think there, you know, there is a case I think for for talking about this. I understand that there will be more revelations this weekend. I'm not from me, but from other people who are looking at the story, no about it. So, stay tuned. I mean, the story I think is going to get bigger and bigger. And I think also he had connections with Epstein. It's not just a sexual relationship. There seems to be a financial one as well.

Yep. Right. I've always found Sarah Ferguson to be particularly Iggy, especially when those leaked tapes came out of her on the couch and just all like I always saw her as some sort of grifter, but she, you know, obviously has attached her name to philanthropy to try to launder herself right.

But in another email on September 17th that year, she wrote about a woman saying you can marry her to she is single and has a great body. Okay. Well, marry me and then we will employ her.

“I mean, to me, first of all, she wants to marry Jeffrey Epstein. She knows what he's about, but she almost seems like a galen Max while figure in the sense that she would have been happy to marry him and then”

employ her. What does that mean? Is that trafficking? Is that abuse? Is this prostitution? The Sarah Ferguson did. Well, Sarah Ferguson certainly slept with a lot of her financial backers. In fact, I'm having dinner tonight with the wife of one of the financial backers who told me about Sarah's affair with him. In fact, one of the PA's talks about Sarah was sleeping with financial backers, but yeah, it is odd. I mean, there she is when she's encouraging her god daughter to go and stay in Epstein's block of flats on her own.

Sarah did have this kind of role bit like a lane of kind of bringing woman into the net for whether it was Andrew or others. You know, she as she said as a people pleaser, but it is it is very bizarre behavior. Particularly given as you say, she's tried to learn to her reputation through charities. I mean, she don't use as charities also to foster her social ambitions and sometimes to make money on the side and there's a little bit about that in the book.

But you know, it is highlighting the hypocrisy and cynicism that she operated and she got away with this.

I mean, at one point. Right, at one point, you write that she asked to work as Epstein's personal assistant. And if you know anything about the Epstein story, his personal assistants were essentially recruiters. I mean, Glenn Maxwell described herself as his personal assistant. You knew what you had to do if you worked for Jeffrey Epstein. Yeah, I think Sarah Ferguson doesn't have any moral boundaries. I think she, you know, she'll do whatever it takes to make a quick buck. And to enrich yourself with people that she feels are important to be useful.

And this is one of the points again. Her personal assistant made it, you know, every even social engagement was actually focused on how they could make it into some sort of business arrangement wish you get some money. And, you know, the assistant found this very embarrassing.

“So, you know, everything is, is transactional with Sarah Ferguson. And that's why it's, you know, and I think people are kind of finally realizing it.”

But it is an extraordinary way to behave, given, given how she presents herself and public as a, as a, as a great humanitarian. Sarah Ferguson wrote children's books. She's friends with Jeffrey Epstein. Why does she gravitate towards these kinds of men? Well, I think her father was a bit like that. I mean, her father was a real sort of philanthropist. I mean, he even had to fare with his wife's bride's maid. And I had some was caught in one of the big London hotels shortly before Sarah Ferguson's wedding with two women having a so-called business meeting, which kind of upset, you know, almost called off the wedding.

And he was, of course, caught at one point famously in a massage parlour in London with more club. So, and he was also sleeping with a one-call Leslie Player. At the same time, she was sleeping with Sarah's boyfriend, who was, she was married in Michael Steve White. So, it's, it's, it's a world, which is slightly different from, from most people's. And I, I think she just feels, she's very relaxed about sort of sexual morality, and, um, doesn't, doesn't, you know, where it doesn't worry too much. But, yeah, you know, the problem was she did had bad influences. Her mother ran away when she was 13 to marry an Argentinian polar player and moved to Argentina.

So, she has very low self-esteem, and I think this is one of the problems. She, she, she needs some, she's always trying to carry favor in some way.

“And that's why she's always buying presents to give people, I mean, she had one person just employed to give presents, sort out presents for people and take photographs and out photographs.”

She had someone else who dealt just with the, the tablets that she took, died pills and, and various supplements. You know, there were two people just to pick up dog poo. You know, she had these extraordinarily, sort of, of life because she felt she could afford this lifestyle. She was going to enjoy it, but she couldn't afford it. Yeah, I mean, this one sentence that she wrote to Jeffrey Epstein is really telling, "I am at your service, just marry me."

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I don't think she particularly liked him, and I don't think he particularly liked her. They were just both them using each other.

He saw her as a way into Andrew and the rural family, and she saw him as just basically a cash cart.

Yeah, I mean, she needed his help. There was an email that you described in which she's asking for him to upgrade a ticket, a flight that he bought for her and the two princesses, her daughters. And they were sitting a economy and she was sitting business and it was a $14,000 ticket, and she asked to upgrade it to first and wanted her daughters to sit in business, Epstein appears to have ignored it. But then the cake anecdote that you have, I mean, can you explain this to the audience? I found it to be particularly revealing of her character.

Yeah, it is extraordinary. It's like she's several stories we had in the hardback, so with the trips and states that was to meet Epstein, and she even gave a frequent flyer cart. She was going to try and collect points on it for by Epstein.

“But the cake came from a filmmaker called Dominic Morgan, I think it was told it by one of the chefs, and she had an away in a new one was made the next day.”

And the lots of stories like that of her, you know, having three meals prepared and not eating any of them, because you couldn't decide which one she wanted, and then eat something. Some, some what we call crisps here, I think you call chips. Stories of having meals prepared for her, our net of skisian in Vobia, and then deciding the last minute to go out. So there's a very strange relationship with food that she has, as I mean, she can't pronounce it, but doesn't want it sometimes. But you know, again, Stravgen's openly very expensive bottles of wine and not drinking any of them, not putting the cork back in.

“And I think people are really shocked by that. I mean, I think what was interesting is what people get shocked about, and it was, for example, the story with Andrew kicking a dog in the head.”

And you know, that seems to be in particular upsetting, but actually what I find revealing about it was that the person who reprimanded Andrew for his behavior was not his parents who were present, but actually a stranger who was at the shooting. And we can't. And the food, the waste of food, I think, is something for someone to gain in who worked with the charities who's dealing with deprived, who actually did several television programs about how people could eat better and eat more cheaply. To then on the side, behave like this, again, points up to this sort of double standards.

Yep, she would make cake each day and then toss it out and then make a new one. I mean, that is excess in. Very sharp anecdote and also kicking a dog as you know, in America, for Cnome shooting a dog. I mean, it's ruined her political career. We, very, we have soft spots for animals, especially dogs. There are, there are companions and to have little, you know, affection or mercy for them is really revealing a one's character. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, and I think, you know, the point was made was Philip did come up at the end of that evening and say to the man, well done for scolding Andrew, he needs, he needs to be told off sometimes, but why wasn't Philip doing this.

You know, he's his father, I mean, he was known as quite a strictest plenary. And yet, this is another example of how Andrew was basically allowed to behave exactly as he wanted.

“And no one, you know, no one held him to account then. And I think that's why he feels he's not going to be held to account now.”

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I'm talking about a commercial flight, right?

Not a a private jet, which I'm sure you prefer to fly, but you tell the story of how he spoke to a stewardess on a first class British airways flight in 2010.

“You're very revealing anecdote. Can you tell the listeners about that?”

Yeah, I mean, I think both Sarah and Andrew have a kind of arrested development. They behaved like children. And in the several stories about flying, I mean, it was the famous episode where Sarah Ferguson had a breakdown on a flight when she was caught. I think whatever affairs and put paybacks on her head and threw things at the old passengers. But in this case, Andrew wanted a cool drink or a glass of water and he likes water. Luke wore rather than cold. And so when the the stewardess brought him the the bottle of water, he said actually it's too cold, but I'll warm it up and he just unzip his trousers and stuff them and down the front of his trousers.

I mean, sort of thing as sort of an eight year old might do, but not not someone who's that's a rage, but I think you know, a lot of the stories were about his sort of predatory sexual behavior. Very appropriately, and he would be introduced to us as to a desk on getting onto the plane. He'd sort of spin around, come to her from onks as if they, you know, he was going to sort of have anal sex with her practices golf swing or he would say to them as a chat online.

“And you know, what's it like to feel the role so and so against your thigh, he would make inappropriate comments to 18 year old girls who wouldn't quite know how to respond, which their bottoms play footsy with the month of table.”

All sorts of, you know, really strange things, making passes at women, you know, pilates teachers, for example, with his wife literally in the room.

He has no filter, it means it's extraordinary behavior. And it's just amazing that no one really has pulled us out until now.

Perhaps Margaret Berge was the only person who could ever be with him because of this behavior. The only type of woman who would deal with this. So I was going to say actually one of the extraordinary things is they're all women who, you know, will very love to him. There's a woman I quote in the book called Bridget Matthews about any is older than him. And she has her all the sweet story of making fudge together and him taking it back to members of the royal family and him coming to visit her brother when he was in hospital.

So then there are some very positive things to say about him. This is what's so wild. This is again, this, this sort of schizophrenic nature to him.

And you know, some intelligent woman that he who used almost engaged one called Amanda Stavley who's a very well known business woman here. And so it wasn't just very, it's a very temporary thing. So I mean, the relationship with Sarah Ferguson is interesting. They were supposed to be the happiest divorce couple ever. But actually that was all a myth. She kind of hung in their limpet light because that gave her access to the royal family. It brought the queen on side. It meant that when she did a business activity, she could claim to be an insider.

But it's interesting as soon as he lost his title, as soon as he was out of royal lodge, she was nowhere to be seen. And so there's, there's just so many elements to the story, which are actually myth mythical, really. And it's taken some time for that myth to be demolished. I want to bring the queen back into this. We've talked a lot about how she covered for Andrew, how she was getting, you know, warnings from the MI6, the British intelligence about what Andrew was up to. And yet, here he was going to Saudi Arabia and doing arms deals on behalf of the queen.

Can you tell us a little bit more about the kind of work he did as a trade-on boy? How he abused his role. And yeah, and how he abused that role. Yeah, what is very clear from the Epstein releases and some of the stuff I found that, I mean, literally he would be given commercially sensed devoured with different aces of information. He would share the moments immediately with some of the business associates, people who are basically bankrolling Sarah Ferguson. And Lord Mandelson, the former British ambassador in the States, was also doing this. I mean, he also has been arrested and I suspect will be charged.

“And I think they'll make a distinction between the fact that he was the paid official, and Andrew wasn't.”

But extraordinary things, you know, given that he served in services, he was a kind of chief of various regiments. He was exploiting business opportunities in Afghanistan at a time when a lot of British blood had been shed with soldiers, you know, serving there. And yeah, I mean, again, there's a lot of, and it's quite so important to know who was on these trips and what they were doing, because the several of these trips, there are people who.

And their identity is disguised. And in fact, when I wrote these people to say what were you doing on these trips, they wouldn't reply.

But there was a lot of stuff going on on these taxpayer-funded trips, which were clearly not necessarily about promoting British trade. They were often about promoting the business activities as friends. But there seems to be also another element with armed sales. And he was very rude about the Arabs. I mean, you know, he said they buy lots of arms from us, but they're very boring. The evidence of these presence we don't like and that he had an Arab Darwin about which he actually presented to a woman of Naref station and said, let's do target practice on a drop of Arab claim.

You know, extraordinarily childish behavior to with people that he had never met before.

Yeah, it is interesting. You were talking about how in Switzerland, who was around a bunch of Swiss business leaders, and he talked about the life of pie and how pie could be pronounced. And then he went on about urine. He seems like a child. Like he said, a rest of development, but I want to go into this document about the Russian intelligence services. And, you know, it talked about, you know, figures like Jeffrey Epsen as access to political and business leaders.

“It's can you tell me more about this document about the Russian intelligence services and how Epstein and Prince Andrew were connected?”

Yeah, it's a document I was given by an American intelligence official. It's dated 15th of January this year. It's called Andrew Mubatt and Windsor political corruption. It's categorized as both RIS, Russian intelligence services and Chinese intelligence services.

It kind of goes into the fact that the Russian control grounds have been basically infiltrated by Russian intelligence, they're operating together.

They're taking advantage of for example green energy subsidies. And they're out to basically, you know, this is part of the hybrid warfare that's going on. And they're using sort of useful idiots like Andrew to get their credibility to projects to give access to particularly important people. They say that he's driven not because he's been blackmailed, but because he's been given the things he likes, which is a woman contacts money. A lot of it's driven by hatred for his brother Charles.

So really, really revealing sort of document and certainly, you know, there are a lot of Chinese and Russian spies hanging around Andrew.

“And you can see why, very easy to get access, there's no proper scrutiny of him. And if you want to meet important people, then a British Royal is a good way of doing it.”

Particularly one who's looking for money. We see various figures as an interesting figure called Johnny Holland, who's very close to both North Korean and Chinese governments, who's being paying large sums of money to serve Ferguson each year as a brand ambassador for one of his businesses. And he gave a quite a lot of money to one of her businesses raised money from Chinese investors and used her as a way of raising the money and then gave money to her. And spent quite a lot of money himself on things like meetings with Victoria Secrets models.

And the sort of things that, you know, most people would run a mile from and if there was proper scrutiny of the Royal would not be allowed to happen. So, um, that I think there is a says intention to aspect to this. There's a quite a well known political commentator here who's also written about this, clearly from tiptoff by his own government sources, that this is the way the story is going. And it's clear that Andrew was a blackmailed or certainly this compromise on him from honey traps or from all over the world, I mean Libya, China, Middle East, Central Asia, they've all got compromising the turtle of Andrew and these honey traps.

“He Andrew would would request girls be provided for him when he made these trips. There's one episode in Prague where someone paid 10,000 euros, I think, for a former mislead back here to sleep with him, keep him happy.”

There's a story in Hong Kong of someone being deputed to take care of him and being shocked by Andrew bringing in prostitutes, watching porn, discussing Japanese rope bondage. These were an official trip, I mean in the hardback I had a story of him in Thailand, booking in 40 prostitutes on an official trip. And certainly one of my contacts was talking about how, you know, when the expenses came in from these trips, Andrew was claiming the massages with some of these escorts on taxpayers, the taxpayers tab and he was told he has led it through, you know, will disguise this on the general accounting.

Extraordinary, you know, he just felt he could do anything you want to know and would challenge him. It's incredible. So you report that US intelligence was concerned that Jeffrey Epstein was running the world's largest honey trap for Israel and Russia, which brings me back to Robert Maxwell, some of that I covered very closely for the series that the Sony podcast series that I did in 2021 called Tower of the Maxwell's.

How are those two people connected at Maxwell and Epstein and when did they become connected and can you explain how Prince Andrew fits into all of us?

Well, I mean, it's still a mystery and I suspect you know more about it than I do. I mean, one of my new sources talks about kind of hanging out with Galane Epstein and Andrew in the mid 1980s, which would suggest that relationship goes much goes back a decade. I mean, the story that different versions, you know, that Galane met Andrew when she was Oxford and the mid 80s. There are other stories saying that Sarah Ferguson introduced Andrew when Sarah Ferguson and Galane were kind of sort of social butterflies in New York in the 90s.

I think it does make sense. We do all in some ways the slink with Maxwell and presumably it could have been introduced through through through an intelligent source.

We know that they were entirely in a when Epstein was teaching the daughter school here, connections clearly with the bar family who had backgrounds and intelligence there. You know, with American intelligence, but you know, perhaps who some other contacts he got and he was brought together with Maxwell who, as you say, was working for for the British for the Russians and for Israeli intelligence.

“And that's how the money, you know, that's how he made to money so quickly he was kind of brought in. I mean, this story is from one intelligence person I talked to about Galane, I think being introduced to Epstein”

way back in the 80s at an art gallery in New York. So I mean, they're just so many rumors running around very difficult to pin down.

And, you know, there are one or two commentators, Harry and she is it who's talked about, you know, working from Maxwell and and stories about Epstein. So, but it sounds like, you know, Epstein was was actually not the mastermind of all this, but it was just another player in a kind of wider conspiracy, which goes back, you know, lot for earlier than people think it involves intelligent services.

“And it was the the compromise that was was all about political subversion as well as financial manipulation. And it was just one of just the device to compromise people to get them to do whatever the the various organizations wanted them to do.”

Yeah, for some context about Robert Maxwell, he was a media bearer and at the time who was a rival to Rupert Murdoch. I mean, he owned the New York Daily News, the mirror MTV Europe, Paragon press a number of of media properties and he also was member of parliament at one time he was, you know, a high flying media mobile and his daughter, the Len Maxwell, if he if he survived and well, not survived. We know that's another thing he died mysteriously off the side of his yacht, the Lady Galen when he was suddenly in a position where he had robbed the.

The pensioners from the mirror and he was obviously probably more easily compromised because he was in that financial position. And so he mysteriously dies. His body was to sure they bury him in the amount of olives in in Israel, which is reserve for princes and kings and people of the high state. And, you know, Galen says in her testimony to Todd Blanche, if you can believe him or not that Hank Greenberg called and asked Robert Maxwell what he thought of Jeffrey Epstein when he was thinking of hiring him, I believe it was hanged that did that.

And so, you know, there are a lot of questions about how far back their relationship goes did Robert bring Epstein in earlier on the new thing did he introduce Galen to Jeffrey and it's really hard to get down to the bottom of it, but they certainly seem like very similar characters to say the least. Yeah, absolutely. So, and you know, Galen because there never and no one's ever really been able to explain Galen meeting Epstein and if it came, you know, it's all supposed to have been after her father's death, which came to New York, but it sounds like it all happened beforehand.

“So, you know, I think that's what's so fascinating. This story has a long way still to run. I think we've only really got the tip of the iceberg in terms of what really happened.”

Right, did her father launder his money through Jeffrey Epstein and is that how she had this multimillion dollar townhouse after who died. Yes, well, I think, you know, that certainly one of the suspicions and, of course, you know, all, all, you know, that again comes back to connections with Trump and some of the work that people like Craig Unger and that has done.

All right, I mean, I, I find it fascinating to Trump and Robert Maxwell, we're on his yacht, the Lady Galen in New York and the Galen is trying to sell Trump, their corporate gifts, this company.

I mean, there's so many crossover, there's so much crossover between these two worlds. And, yeah, well, I want to bring us to today, the present day. We know that, Prince Andrew put out at statements saying he thinks it's best for the family if he steps aside for more life, because not mention the victims. He's only a little bit about the reaction to that in the family, how Charles has handled it, what this could do his throne and his that ring.

“Well, I think there was a great deal of outrage, after Andrew was allowed to make that statement.”

I mean, he, as you say, he didn't express any of any remorse or apology, though he'd been, you know, told the D should. He was allowed to say that he was stepping down voluntarily. He denied all the allegations, and I think that forced the king to really do something.

And the king should always have made the statement, the statement he made the end of October, he should have made the beginning of October.

And, you know, he earned a lot of respect when he was much more ruthless, because I think, you know, he's just kind of desert on the, the roles of being too slow to address this and get ahead of the story. So we saw some things change. I think the publication of Virginia Jiffrey's book also changed public opinion. Again, what's interesting, I was told by my FBI source, that they provided a copy of Virginia Jiffrey's book, while she was allied. So pre-april to the role of family, so they knew what was coming.

And yet nothing was done, and it's always this, it's only ever in reaction to events. And, you know, there is this big question, I mean, the king got heckled in October. That was another factor in terms of him, you know, taking the title away from Andrew, getting eventually out of role logic.

“But, you know, the question that's still being asked, what do the role family know and when did they know it and what did they do about it?”

And if they have been protecting Andrew, they've been aware of what he's been up to for a long time. That's going to be very damaging. And I think, you know, this is the thing the king needs to answer. I mean, this is a story, it's been in the press for 15 years. There've been particularly highlights.

One in 2010, when I was a servant was called sending access to Andrew for half a million pounds.

The 2022 Selman Turk High Court case in which 1.3 million pounds was being fenced through the focus through Ferguson and Andrew's accounts, which couldn't be explained. I mean, even when my book came out in August, though, you know, there was some controversy, nothing happened. They didn't actually address some of the things that I'd raised. And so it's really only with the releases in the end of last year and through this year that really anything has been done.

“But even then, I think it's performative, it's saying, you know, let the law take its course.”

But at the same time, I'm hearing stories of policemen being reminded of their obligations of confidentiality, et cetera. So it's all window dressing. What goes on in public and what is happening behind the scenes? I think it's two very different things. Yep.

And we also went to Sarah Ferguson for comment. She's not responded. And we understand that you've made attempts to contact the palace on the allegations against Andrew. I'm still in chocolate in 2009, Sarah tried to go into business with Jeffrey Epstein. Sarah Ferguson was talking about giving him a 51% stake in mother's army at company and personal brand at aim to help amplify the voices of mothers all over the world.

I mean, it's shocking to me. Well, it's on the game. She uses charities, you know, for basically financial reasons. I mean, again, the relationship with Howard Lutnik, you know, who gave her free accommodation for an offices in the two towers. But also, it was involved in these money making operations, you know, Andrew was going to lend credibility to a lot of these operations, which would actually bring Cantor for sure quite a lot of money. Howard Lutnik is our commerce secretary, by the way, who denied that he had a continued relationship with Jeffrey Epstein.

I've seen that for 2009, but it appears that his relationship continues at least 2012. I want to talk about the cover-up, the death. Now we have this letter, where Jeffrey Epstein is supposedly saying, you know, goodbye. This is it for me. It's his suicide note. Do you think it's real? Yes, I don't believe the lectures, genuine. I mean, we don't know the provenance. It's odd why it's suddenly appeared. It's not the way that Epstein written. But, you know, I think there are also questions now about the suicide. I mean, putting aside the suicide note.

I mean, there's evidence from Michael Baton that the, the sort of forensic pathologist that this was a homicide role on the suicide.

We've got mysterious payments to the two last guards who saw him, who mysteriously fell asleep both at the same time when someone came into a cell.

We think, or when he could suicide, we've got lots of shredding of documents. We've got cameras at fail. We've got people with testimony saying that he wasn't too suicidal.

“I think, you know, there was this concern that he was about to spill the beans and therefore, you know, he could prove to be all the dangerous.”

And I think, you know, the fact that he wrote as well a few days before he died, doesn't suggest he was creating suicide, but that he might himself be suicide. And there's a whole series of people who've died and was to reconcile, says through suicide in prison. Right. I mean, prison supposedly are designed so that this won't happen, right? I mean, you're supposed to be safe in prison. And, you know, again, interesting things cell mates moved out of the cell. No one was disciplined, you know, this was pretty embarrassing to have a high level prison like that who was able to commit suicide.

You know, lots and lots of things just don't add up. And, you know, Tara, no, I'll tell you know, well, who's one of the guards, I think has just given some testimony, but again, had testimony doesn't really make sense. You know, she talks about these quite large payments, which are I think enough to buy a car or for overtime.

“So, you know, I think there's a lot more still to come out about some Epstein's death.”

But you write that according to an FBI report on July 24th, this is just, shortly before he kills himself in the Epstein files. He met a prison psychologist insisting he had quote, no interest in killing himself, and that it would be crazy his words to commit suicide. I have a life and I want to go back to living my life. And I even Alan Dershwood's himself thought that he would be able to get off Alan Dershwood's was his lawyer. Yes, absolutely. It doesn't ring true. I mean, you know, he's not. I mean, talking to victims lawyers. I mean, everyone said that, you know, he thought he was going to get out of this. He'd managed to get out of everything before.

He had expensive lawyers. It was a whole start of the process. And it just doesn't make sense. So, you know, whether we'll ever get to the full, the full story and who, if he was killed, who killed him, is, you know, is really interesting. I mean, there's talk that was Mossad agents of the suggestions of whole series of quite important people in the American politics, who may have been behind it or some of the people, the co-conspirators, you know, who knows. But maybe something will emerge, you know, some documentation or some testimony that will shed some light on this.

I remember from the 60 minutes documentary that was done shortly afterwards, because there were so many inconsistencies in this former police detective Herman Wiseberg. You write about this told CBS after studying the pictures, quote, It appeared that the scene was for lack of a better term staged a bit. And we know that Epstein's brother Mark has been trying to prove that he was killed. He hired an independent pathologist, but the body was moved, which makes it difficult.

“Why do you think Mark is so intent on proving this that his brother was killed?”

Is it for insurance money? Does he want to sue the jail?

I mean, or is it something else? I'm always suspicious when it comes to him.

Yeah, I just don't know. I mean, I actually had lunch with him in New York and December. And he was saying at that stage that he was going to produce a team of experts that were going to prove that it was murder. But he hasn't done so. I mean, I think he was talking about February being the date. Well, here we are in May. Nothing is appeared. But who knows, you know, again, you know, the full story of Mark Epstein and Jeffrey.

I mean, he says that they were quite, you know, remain quite close, but hardly saw each other. But, you know, you know, there were several people who were quite close to Jeffrey, who have, you know, the countenance and lawyers and people who we had. I don't think we've really got the full story from yet. And I find it extraordinary that people who are working for Epstein haven't been subpoenaed to talk with the Sarah Kellins and Leslie Groffs and others. It seems extraordinary that they are allowed just to sort of operate quietly and live their lives without anything any questioning whatsoever.

I also am really bothered that it's all happening behind closed doors. You know, it's something that you mentioned in the book that I don't think has gotten enough attention is that Bill Barr, who was Trump's attorney general at the time, visited Epstein in prison. I mean, what do we think they talked about? And it's interesting to me too, because as we know, Epstein worked for Bill Barr's father at Dalton. Yeah.

As a background in intelligence, as to the father I think, so it is extraordinary that, you know, that's never been explained.

And as you said, no one's ever been explained what they talked about why he came there.

Just one of the, you know, one of the verse mysteries that still surround that death. I want to go back to the fall out for the royal family. We know that the princesses and Andrew's daughters, they have profited from their role in the royal family. But it's to come of them. I mean, they haven't done anything wrong themselves, but it can't be great. Well, I mean, there's a bit of a campaign to sort of paint them as innocent victims of their parents.

I think that's not entirely the case. I mean, we have plenty of instances of money being found there accounts that they couldn't explain from people they didn't know. And I mean, large sums that you wouldn't, you know, you would have noticed. There's plenty of evidence of them supporting, promoting banks, results in the Middle East and various organisations and charities, which presumably they were paid to do.

“And that's why they get so important to have a proper royal register, where people like that, they do have to declare their business interests in the way that maps upon in this country have to.”

So that there is transparency about what they're doing, you know, they're entitled to business careers, but I think if there's a sense that it's. These that they're making money off the back of their raw titles and that these these events are done, not by Beatrice Moosey, but by her Royal Highness Princess Beatrice, then, you know, I think that that does does raise questions. Sounds familiar, huh? So I think we will find more will come out about the daughters in the coming months, and the fact that they were asked for an order for the business.

I think it sounds familiar to me. Yeah, well, exactly, you know, I think there's so much that could still come out about them. I think that's very unwise of the raw family to to hold them too tight for the moment, because I think there could be a very simple. Which could have ramifications for the reputation the family is the whole.

“What's Andrew's current state of mind? What is he doing right now?”

Well, I mean, his is from from people I've talked to, he doesn't seem to be as upset as you would expect.

He kind of has his quite daily life. He's always been a bit of a couch potato. He watches TV and he no longer is able to to go out riding, but he goes for walks.

He's talking to lawyers. He's not really having people visit to him. The relationship with his family seems to be more difficult. I mean, his own daughter didn't tell him directly that she was pregnant. But I think it's a waiting game, you know, he must be wondering if churches will be brought. He doesn't think they will, but he must be wondering what is likely to happen. And, you know, you saw those pictures of him after being to police station in February, you know, here was a man who, I think perhaps certainly on that day was really coming to realising how serious position he was in.

Yeah, again, what does this mean for Charles and his reign? Well, I think the feeling is, you know, that the Queen has passed the book to Charles and William doesn't want Charles to pass the book to him. He wants his dealt with in the current reign. If necessary, Charles takes the book and William inherits a throne which is a clean slate and all the stables have been clean.

“And I think that's not going to happen. And I think that, you know, William is sees the reputation of damage. He doesn't want to be tired with this brush.”

And he would like his father to deal with it, but some, and I suspect there are conversations going on like that for a whole time. But Charles may feel obligated to his mother. He may have done some deal with Andrew to protect the daughters as the wife getting Andrew out of royal lodge. Who knows, you know, what, what's we're getting very mixed messages about what's happening. All the while Andrew is playing world of warcraft video games.

Yes, when he's always enjoyed video games. I mean, he, you know, he likes, you know, violent films. He would take up date nights. He would take girls to sort of Rambo and top gun.

So he's, he's not a very sophisticated person. He's not a great reader. He doesn't have a huge hinterland. And so I think it must be difficult. I understand that he often is still in this dressing gown at lunchtime. You know, he's become a bit of a slope. He's kind of lost a sort of purpose and discipline in his life, which he had. Yeah. Well, Andrew, thank you so much for your time. This was fascinating.

Go out by the book. You can finally get the paper back in the United States and in Canada. I found it to be fascinating. I had to read it, you know, via PDF, but at the heart copy. This is history and it's happening every day. I have a feeling you're going to either write another addition or you're going to have more chapters to add. I'm going to do a new book. And you book called Untitled, which will tell the full story of the fall from grace.

He sees that I'm proud to have been one of the first lessons to the audiobook in the States and support the book.

“Will the new chapter be automatically added to the audiobook on audible?”

Yes, it will. Absolutely. It will just be just added automatically. And I've read it again.

And we've made a few small corrections. I think I got the data. I got the gap between Andrew and Princess Diana wrong, for example.

“So we've made a few tweet tweets and then added these 40 pages, which will be there on in the audio you've really bought.”

Okay, well, thank you so much for your time, Andrew. And everyone you can support this show. You can support my my independent journalism and you can support it. Andrew by going out and by the book.

Hit the subscribe button. If you're watching this, tell your friends all about it.

“This is the kind of important investigative journalism into corruption at every single level.”

And, you know, we're doing this independently and hope that you will support us in this fearless journalism. Thanks Andrew. Great. We're not stuck to you. Of course, thank you. Hi, I'm Tamsen Fidel, journalist and author of How to Manipause and host of the Tamsen Show, a weekly podcast with your roadmap to midlife and beyond. We covered all from dating to divorce, aging to ADHD, sleep to sex, brain health, the body fat.

And even how parametapause can affect your relationships and trust me, it can. Each week, I said down with doctors, experts and leaders in longevity for unfiltered conversations. Pack with advice on everything from hormones to happiness. And of course, how to say saying during what can be, well, let's face it a pretty chaotic chapter of life. Think of us as your midlife survival guide, new episodes released every Wednesday. Listen now on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.