S2E32: "Nice Mind Reading!"

Today, we have two very special guests,

“Manisha Ladd, who you might remember from season one,”

where you met her son, Akeel. And now she has started a center, the Akeel Autism Foundation, Sensory Pathway Center. And in her journey, she met Betsy, who has an 11-year-old daughter, Sienna,

and is just starting her spelling journey. And in the beginning of the spelling journey, also discovered that she was telepathic and kind of confirming some of your prior experiences. And I think it's going to be a really beautiful true conversation

about fear and perseverance and love beyond anything else. So thank you both for joining us. Hi, everyone. I'm Kadikans, and welcome to the talk tracks.

Brought you weekly from TTT Media. In this series, we explore the threads that we've together our understanding of reality. Science, spirituality, consciousness, and yes, even unexplained phenomena like probabilities.

We examine the mysteries that sit just beyond the edge of what science can currently explain alongside researchers, thinkers, families, and experiences. If you haven't yet listened to the telepathic tapes, I encourage you to start there.

It lays the foundation for everything that we'll be exploring, because every era has ideas once dismissed as impossible until someone was willing to investigate them seriously. And on this show, we do just that.

“If you want to see our incredible guest in person,”

we have a video version of this episode on the telepathic tapes YouTube page.

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introduce yourself and who your children are? - Sure. So my name is Manisha Lad and our only son, Akil Lad, is not 25 years old. He has transformed me since his diagnosis of autism,

then we've been not even much of a hope. So till 11 years, he was completely non-verbal on expressive, he broke his silence through a very controversial method. And during that time, we were introduced

about the mind and body disconnect and reflexes. - My name is Betsy Flores. From New Jersey also, I have a daughter named Ciana who's 11 years old, we started this spelling thing when she was about maybe eight or nine.

And she's still not open with me. She's kind of early on in her journey because having been able to take her for consistent lessons,

she should be able to meet me soon. - And then I want to talk about how you met.

“But first, you know, for people who might remember you”

from season one, Manisha was the first family

in Latin America that was both spelling really professionally, a kill can spell on an iPad, no one needs to touch or hold anything he can just go. - And you open a center to help other individuals who have not speaking or prexic children,

which I understand is how you met. And at the center you work on reflexes and the rapid prompting method of spelling to communicate and other physical therapies and such. - Adaptive fitness, we have a lot of digital innovation tools

where parents get intellectual metronome, where we know how to work on the hemispheres and more on the subconscious mind. And we also have a small hydroponic unit where the kids learn to do the gardening with the hydroponic.

- What's the center called? - A few hours in foundation, the sensory pathway center. - A sensory pathway. - Yeah, I have a program name is called Neurosensory Foundation Program.

But before starting a center, when Neurosensory Foundation, a kill on some foundation and our whole goal was to help families back in India. So we trained a doctor in India, we raised some funds between the doctor in India

“and that's how we got the family started on the first”

biomedical treatment. And when the age of 11, when a kill broke his silence

through iPad and that time a kill made a very powerful

statement by piping that I cannot see my body in my mind. And then we found that a kill understood everything inside. And he was literally talking from inside to us. He had no idea that he had a body. What he understood that,

oh, have hands and fingers and they move. He had a perception that I see visually, I hear. And I learn, it's a mind. Other person has to also open his mind. That was his operating system.

So he one day told me, tied with me and said, I can't help but I have to read people's mind. So he told you he can't help but he has to read minds. Why did he say that? And because it was his operating system,

that was the way he thought that's because it just happened happening naturally for him. - Yeah. - It's not a he doesn't have to make an attempt. And that's why he would say that I am very a fearless

of using my resources. - What does he mean by his resources? - Like being very intuitive. - Intuitive. - Yes, intuitive and telepathy.

You can see it's on the similar lines. So while he would type with me, before he would, I would give him a call, as if his thoughts were coming into my mind. - So his thoughts would answer your mind too.

- Yes, his thoughts were coming to my mind. That was short. - How could you tell they weren't your thoughts? - Because he would tell me, you are answering my answer is same, but this is my answer.

- It's so interesting. - Yes, and some of the thoughts whether he would say like, I cannot say my body in my mind, or if I ask him a basic question

of whether he was studying more living things, what is living thing, what is non-living thing, with teach, and you ask questions, like why cell is living? And his answer was because energy in the cell is living,

the cell is living. I wouldn't give such answers. So his answers were very, very, very intellect. Very intellectual and very smart. And something, and you knew it wasn't your mind.

- Absolutely, I would never say,

I cannot say my body in my mind. Why would I even that big up? - Yeah, yeah. - So he typed that or you sort of stood in your head. - No, it goes with the very flow.

Once you give your mind, it's like a blackboard. I'm going to use your mind, and your body's going to be a vehicle for me. So you and me are very entuned. - So it's almost like a kill.

You said like, it's always a fresh blackboard in your head. And he almost like used the interface of your body. - Yes, and my mind too. - I just want you to share the bus story, 'cause I love that story.

And I don't think I put, it's definitely not in the film, and I'm not even sure if it was in season one, but it impacted me when you first told me the story about how, when he was little, he would get mad at the bus.

- Yes, tell that story. - So he would go and the bus and the driver is telling him hi, a good morning a kill, and a kill on the greeting. And he would ask him a kill, a good morning a kill,

and he would not answer. So, and he would get upset. And then he would say, why I have to, to why they keep on asking in the same question,

“when I already said hi, I said, how did you say hi?”

I said, I answered in my mind. And one day he had a major mail down in the bus and I asked him a kill, why what happened? And he said that teach people how to read my mind. - Yeah, because he was talking to the kids too,

right time to keep it down, I remember you saying, and they went, listen to him.

and I'm not listening. - Yeah, we would say, he would come and like, why you're not listening, I said, how did you say, because I'm telling in my mind, and you're not listening from my mind.

So he was under that big perception. And he would say, my mind is very good. I have to tell my mind what to do. And when he had a mail down, then he started telling that I should not go into the other mind.

Because he says, I want to do it, but my other mind is not letting me do. As if there are two minds inside. - So interesting. - And now he doesn't talk about the mind at all

because he has a lot of control over his body. - So the more the control came, the less he had a reliance. - Yes, and that's where the more you work on the children's body, they get the control.

And that's exactly all the modalities which we did with a kill, it's what we do at the center. - Great. Okay, so that's it. You obviously met Manisha through the center,

but tell us a little bit about your story when you decided to bring your daughter to the center and why. - So we had been doing RPM well. I mean, she has a great practitioner,

but she's an hour away, and she was only available every other Sunday. So it was twice a month, which I felt like we needed more, but there was nothing in my area,

like, consensual New Jersey where I could go. And so I learned that Manisha was doing RPM. And my daughter, she gave me some clues that she could read my mind.

And it wasn't always consistent.

There were just some little episodes that I'm like, hmm, what's an example? When she was a baby and I would do to fix her hair, and I would be standing behind her. For some reason, in the minute,

I would put the ponytail thing in my mouth to like, she would turn around and tell me to say get out of my mouth. And I'm like, how did she see me? I'm standing behind her,

and I would try different ways. I'm like, maybe I'm making a noise, and she would do it every single time. The minute I put it, she would turn around and tell me to take it out.

“Another example is I remember waking up one day”

and just, I wanted to make myself eggs, which is rare for me. I don't really cook myself eggs. And my daughter is on like eggs. But I come out and make myself eggs today.

So I'm thinking all this in my head and I go downstairs. I take the pan out, and she says, I don't want any eggs. And I'm like, I don't know what was gonna get like,

it was just things like that. Another time, she was taking a bath, and I was, and she was playing with a Spocket. And I was thinking to myself, I can't believe that's the same bucket

that they gave me at the hospital when she was born. And she put the bucket over her face, and I said, that's not a mask, and she said that's for the hospital. Now, if you know kids with autism,

they, at least my daughter's not completely nonverbal. She has a language, but it's mostly all scripts and the same thing, the same thing they don't know again. So for her to say hospitals, it was unusual.

And it just was, at the exact time that I was thinking about it in my mind. So she gave me those snippets. And I remember telling somebody, I said, she's really in my mind.

And then when I took my daughter to Manisha the first time,

I wasn't expecting anything. I just wanted to, the spelling, but Manisha immediately connected with her immediately. And so I don't know why, one of the questions I have is just like,

why does she connect with me that way? Like, I know that she's not reading my mind all the time. And I wonder if it's because she hasn't developed it that much. She had, or maybe it's because she's turning it off. And then, but when she connected with Manisha that quickly,

I said, well, then maybe it's me. Maybe I'm somehow, don't have the, I'm not open. Manisha, that's just be open. I'm like, how do I do that?

I don't know how to do it. We have talked about this so many times in the show that's so often I think for children. It's easier to connect with a teacher or a coach or a counselor than a parent.

“And I give this example, which I think is true, right?”

I think for parents, we have so much emotional stock and pressure that we put on our own kid. Like, I'll be watching my six-year-old in the basketball game. It doesn't bother me if any other kid is running the wrong way or not running fast enough

or not doing this, but the second my son just stops it.

I'm like, what is he doing? Why is he doing that? You know? Yeah. This is the end of the world that he's not doing it.

But for every other kid out there, it's like, whatever, that's so cute. And I think we parents do that, right? We put so much on our children, right? But it's not just a spelling, even the telepathy, like,

I've tried to test her since all this happened. I've tried to test her to see if she's reading my mind. And she's not, most of the time, I feel like she's not. Oh, you know, I don't know. It's just my, I just don't think so.

So I wonder, like, what is it like in Asia? You tell me that we're having the first time you all met. So you brought in Sianna and to learn to spell or to-- Yeah. Because she can, so she's minimally verbal.

It's just mostly scripting. She's not conversation. It's just functional language. She can say I need this or I need that. But she's not conversational.

It's mostly scripting things, lines from shows as she repeats over and over again. So for someone like that, who's minimally verbal, unreliable, verbal spelling can really help still. Like, so into community thinking, really, yeah.

Because she can't, she can't say complex thoughts at all. OK.

“No, I mean, if you have asked her, what did you do in school today?”

She can't tell me. OK. So you were going to help with spelling.

Because obviously some sort of telepathy happened. Yeah, I see.

“Whenever anybody walks into our center, it's very pure RPM-based.”

We never say telepathy or anything or anything.

We know that if a child is spelling, we know when they are reading our mind. And when they are not reading our mind. How did they tell? OK, so if I read something and the answer,

I have in my mind, the child starts answering that. Then we completely know. Or sometimes they give thoughts that I connect from this quote to that. Some of the thoughts which they type, which is not in our mind. So it happens very naturally.

So like your example of the bike is a perfect example. Which example? It's like you're writing the bike. And then you hold and then you leave. And so they get in the whole control.

So it's like you hold the hand. And then you start fading your hand. And you are just standing in the back. It's like an energy. Everything is energy.

So somebody had explained me for a killed perspective. That when a kill walks into environment outside the house, he tries to match his or your energy with the other person's energy. And if that is not matching, he shuts down. So if you are open, he will be open.

So with Siana when she came in, I had no intention. I'm doing any telepathy or anything or anything. But I was reading her a story and she was answering. And in the between she was talking something, not right now, you know, not right now. Okay, same.

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That's kachava, kachuva.com/tapes. OK, explain this a little bit more. So the first time you met Siano, she sits on next to your heart. Yes, she's reading a story, your rival's reading a story.

And you were going to ask her, yes, I know answer. I know, a basic proper question and answers. And then, suddenly, she makes a statement out of the blue. Nice mind reading. She writes to you out of the blue nice mind reading.

So, OK, so you start working on Siano. So what happens next?

“Like, did you bring this up to Betsy or did you say that?”

Yes, yes. I'd write her in a session finished. I told Betsy, she's completely telepathy. Tell me about the test y'all did. So there's a table.

There was a table. Siano sitting across from me. She was sitting next to her. And she gave me a book. I would pick out any word.

I tried to pick words that I didn't even know what they meant. And she would look at it. She would go over, hold the Siano. We would just start typing the word.

Yes. It's like that. And she just started. And we did it four times. And she did it every time.

That's. And I know if you could keep something coming to me, then I'll start different techniques. I'll turn from boards where I'll start fading myself. I'll have different boards where I'll keep the board down.

And then I'm not. And I have air prawns and I'm afraid those air prawns. Wherever we feel, there is a need of more prompting. We tell the parents, there's a need to work on the body. Mm-hmm.

The more you work on the body, then the prawns. The fates. Beethoven. Do you think though, like, for you being, because a lot of the coaches and teachers, I know who work with so many non-speakers,

not only is it easier to be like a spelling coach and work with a lot of people, but to tell up that they seem to be easier as well. But do you think that's because your mind gets trained like that, it just knows how to open much quicker?

I always say, I'm always been really bad at meditation.

And things like that. And I wonder if that's what it is. I wonder. No, you don't think that's it. No, no, I don't think that's meditation.

And because I have gone through the spiritual journey for a kill, because I was looking for these answers. And age of 10 or 11, when a kill was typing, and a kill started telling a lot of his inner thoughts. Now, what can I do?

I had, he would say there are many different forms of minds. And I had no answer where to look for. So a kill said you, there's many different forms of mind. Yes, and he started interacting with all the ancestors and giving messages.

You know, so he had a lot of perceptions. So even how many she talks about opening her mind and closing her mind. It's something that I can't grasp.

“So that's why I feel like I might be blocking her somehow.”

Or she's blocking me. I don't know if you think that is. I mean, because it's painful for you. I can see that. Yeah, I'm confused by it to be honest.

I mean, I, to be honest, I think I would be a little bit

relieved that she's not always reading my mind, because I'm

being honest, it's not always going to, you know, like, you know, what is I'm going to take you to some dark places. And I've been really depressed. And if she was reading my mind in those moments, I'd be devastated, because it's not good.

You know, it's not good things. But it's just, I'm just curious more than anything. I don't know, it's, I wanted to spell with me more than anything. Yeah, more even more than the telepathy, but it just makes me curious. Like, why is it, she has clearly read my mind sometimes.

But other times, I'm sure she doesn't. Like, I have to study with her for school, you know. So there's, I'm saying the word, and I, you know, I say definition. She's got to give me the word. And she's, the word is in my head 10,000 times, and she doesn't say it.

So I'm like, she's, I don't think she's like, yeah, the fear you have. If you let that fear go, okay, maybe, but maybe I do have a fear. Okay, let that fear, let that fear go. Well, the good thing is that it forces me to clean up my act. It like, the minute I start going down a dark place of like,

depression or whatever it is, I stop myself, because I'm like,

“well, what if she can, what if she's reading my mind now?”

That's a, that's a talk that I don't ever want her to think that she's not enough for that she's making me unhappy in some way. And so I, it forces me to like, which is a great thing. So that's she, she is changing me for the better, I think, in that sense. That's exactly the transformation, even your energy changes,

and your breathing changes, when you, when you, when you are in that, with your space of integrity, with yourself. Well, and also the fear goes away. But if your goes away, couldn't you just be different minds, too? Like, my, my, might not be anything you're doing.

You know what I mean, I don't want you to put that pressure on yourself. It could just be, I mean, I don't know how it works. I feel like you are the resident expert in the room, Manisha. But, and she is a lot of totally, yeah. She stood and who has come and told me that.

I feel as told, it's very easy to read my mind. The other, the girl had, had come in the second session. The first statement she does completely open, you know, very aggressive,

and I started to have mind-to-mind connection,

and Mama was trying to hold her. I said, don't, don't touch her, let her give her answers. Let it be wrong, that's fine. And in my mind, I'm telling her, it's okay. That's fine, you know.

It's okay, I'm gonna accept the answers. I'm talking in my mind. It, it's, it's something that it starts there. And if it is starting there, for me, let it start, because it's a relationship.

And then we start slowly, slowly diving into it. Why this? I'll give you another example. One of the students was constantly, you know, throwing things on the floor.

You give him something in his hand, throw, pencil, throw,

“this throw, throw, so we ask him, why are you throwing things?”

And he typed, because I want to hear the sound. Since then, till now, you're not even once you're through. So once you enter into that mind, once they find a trust, get you are okay to give me your mind. I'm okay to tell you.

It's like going to a friend, okay, or going for the therapy, and you open up to them. And you tell them everything. It's the trust, why you open up to certain people and how why you don't open up to certain people.

And as you're growing up, you have your friend, you have a best friend and you tell the best friend, everything, but you will not tell that to your mom, or you will not tell that to your dad, or you will not tell to your brother, you know.

It's like that. I mean, I also think, I mean, this is like, in a way, it's a lot of the, it might be like a muscle memory for your brain just to let go and get into. And I would imagine people often use the metaphor

like ballroom dancing, right? Like you're a really good ballroom dancing partner 'cause you've in terms of typing, even telepathy, because you've done it with so many people. Got it, done it.

So you know how to get into that ballroom thing. So any child walking is like, I can ballroom dance with you. Yes, where it might be harder for a parent or sibling who's like brand new, I would think,

to just figure out how to connect in their brains. I mean, so it's, I don't know. So it's like you keep on doing, keep on doing. And you'll reach that spot, but you need to keep on doing.

I, I never, ever sat with a kill saying today,

I feel is going to read my mind, okay? He would tell me, oh, your mind answered in my mind, and I'm still saying, but this is my mind answer. I have a question about gatekeeping now and telepathy. Like is it still pretty pronounced of like,

do you not talk about telepathy with unspelling or do you think it's getting a little better? I think there's like, there's like two camps of non-believers. One is religious, 'cause even me, I was raised, I was raised Catholic and it was like,

that's like demonic, you know, you just don't. And I think-- - Telepathy or telepathy. It's just, it's like anything like that, the spiritual world, all of that stuff is like, of the occult and it's just, you just don't go there.

And then there's just others that are just, they don't believe anything else that happens to them. There's just that, that camp, you know? Like just looking at that, you know, they don't think that. Yeah, that's nice. - Yeah, that's nice.

I had told a friend of mine who I've been trying to get her to take her son, who has autism to do spelling. I've been trying to tell her and tell her. And I just can see that he's really smart and he would do so well with spelling.

I just have a feeling, you know? And I've been trying to encourage her. I've sent her videos and she just hasn't done anything.

And then finally, I told her what happened with Manisha

and then I even showed her the video of,

“and that's what she introduced to her husband,”

which I think was the biggest mistake, because if you're being introduced, you know, the spelling, as of the first time, what's telepathy then, and if they're completely closed off, to telepathy, they're gonna be closed off the spelling,

'cause I gotta think it's together. Are you married? - Yes. - And how does your spouse respond to the telepathy? - He's actually surprisingly open and believes it. When I gave him what I would tell him the examples

of things that happened, I mean, he was just like, "Oh, that is weird." And then I showed him the Manisha thing and he was like, "Oh, no, no, no." So it is because the definition of the telepathy, which they see, and they have been told, they want to hear

from the clinicians. It's very commonly seen mostly, and I don't know why, it's the, it's a dad's thing or a dog, that they want to hear from a professional rather than from a mom, because they think it's like a mom,

and that's where I feel you need to redefine the word telepathy. And if you bring the telepathy and you're assigned into a picture, and how the picture works, that's true. - Well, and a lot of, and I've noticed now, especially in the scientific community,

they'll call it non-local consciousness. - Yes, non-local communication. - The word differently. - Yeah, it's not.

“- So yeah, that's why I have the day one I've been telling,”

I don't like the word telepathy, because it looks like telepathy, and they find the word telepathy. - Yeah, it's not easy kind that I can sit here, and I can put the thought in your mind, okay?

And you are going to do that. You're going to say that, it's not, it's not that simple. Telepathy happens at that time. It's like you and me have learned the script,

or you know how I think, you know how I think,

you know what's going to be my next move, I know what's going to be my next move, I know with your just basic expression, just as you doing this, what this mean to me, it's staying with each other for long,

and having that one-ness relationship. - How common though, now that you've a son and you're seeing all sorts of parents and kids come in, like how many of the individuals that you're working with do you think have this ability

around non-local communication or telepathy? - On the stability. - Almost everybody. - Wow. - Yeah, so let's say for the majority, the non-local communication. - Make sure that you see. - Make sure that you see.

- Yes, there's telepathy. - Yes. - If you bring up the parents or they're responsible, do they get upset or do you not even bring it up? - I don't bring it up till the families are understanding what is this, but now I do tell them very confidently,

they always have constant thoughts going on in their mind.

They always tell that they know when who is believing me, who is not believing me, they all know. They understand the world, they understand both the world, but it is hard and frustrating for them too. It's not bodies that are not in their control.

- Today's episode is brought to you by Arrowflow Eurology.

“I think for many of us, we're within what they call”

the sandwich generation, where you're taking care of young kids and aging parents. And let's be real, constant diaper runs and hunting for the right size in store after store can be exhausting and expensive.

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at arrowflowurology.com/tapes. That's A-E-R-O-flow.com/tapes. Disclaimer, coverage is determined by individual insurance and state benefits and children must be three years or older.

Today's episode is brought to you by Arrowflow Eurology. I think for many of us, we're within what they call the sandwich generation, where you're taking care of young kids and aging parents. And let's be real, constant diaper runs

and hunting for the right size in store after store can be exhausting and expensive. So if you're child or your parent or even you are managing incontinence or delayed potty training, Arrowflow Eurology is here to help take that off your plate.

They help many in the autism community and those managing incontinence to receive medical grade supplies, like diapers, pull-ups and wipes, all covered by your insurance and shipped right to your door.

They're backed by doctors and have over 20,000 five-star Google reviews. So you know you're in good hands. Stop paying out of pocket. See if you qualify in under two minutes at arrowflowurology.com/tapes

that's A-E-R-O-Flow.com/tapes. Disclaimer coverage is determined by individual insurance and state benefits and children must be three years or older. Mm-hmm.

It's not in control. All of the jewelry very easy for somebody. Now just hold the blood to board and now fade it. Let the blood to board be on a left hand and let the child spell and now start fading yourself.

Fading those bronze, spreading those techniques, spreading that is also a skill. It just feels like it's a practice.

“I mean, that's what it sounds like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.”

I think it's a important thing too. I mean, for parents or teachers or coaches, like how can you assure that if you're wanting to teach an individual who's typing to communicate that they're thoughts are their own,

that their answers are their own. What's the advice you'd give? We see the difference in the answers. So you can tell when it's your-- Absolutely, no doubt about it.

So what are some, I mean, talking about Ciana now? Yes. Like, let's dive into that a little bit. So you've been working with Ciana but she's not a photographer.

Yeah, I think it did only three sessions. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, hasn't been there many. Yeah, yeah. And how is that going for you?

Do you feel hopeful that she's going to become open? And what are you? Yeah, I feel better. I'm more hopeful now. I've been practicing with her more at home.

I took-- I'm taking a Spellers course, not the-- the Spellers parent course. And it's been helpful because you kind of want-- I think a big mistake that parents made and I think I made it.

I used to see them open with someone else and you just want to ask them open in the questions right away. Yeah, it just doesn't work that way.

“You have to kind of start with the bottom.”

It takes time. And go up. And so she's doing better next year. And now she's before, because I'm her mother.

She's like, she would have the impulse to do the loops with me.

“Like, say this, and I say this, and I say this,”

and we can get caught in this same these loops all day. But she's kind of slow down with that. Now, she's answering the question. There's simple questions at this point. There's just spell the sport, it's simple.

But there's progress. So I'm hopeful I just have to be more consistent and practicing. Yeah, that's exactly it. It's you keep on doing, keep on doing. And then have a courage to go into that space

of asking open-ended questions why I let it flow. Yeah, I let it know expectations. No, I'm going to begin again. I would have the expectation that I wouldn't answer. I would get frustrated, and it would be done.

And it was my fault, because I would want it so bad that I would become frustrated. And I know she's feeding on my energy. And she would shut down or refuse to continue. So it's exactly.

So I'm getting better just not even expecting that at this point is kind of starting slow and building up. It will just happen, don't give up. I'm not going to be so hard on you. So the next time will come.

“Well, and the thing is, I think about some of the non-speakers”

we feature on this show who got open at 20. Yeah, I'm 26 now. 18, like you were starting so young. And was really kind of exciting to think about is what I've heard from those older parents

is, oh my goodness, had I only started when they were nine or 10? Yeah. What would their life look like now?

You know, maybe if you're always doing anything about that

with high school, I want to put her to high school with her, smelly. Yeah, I don't want her to go to high school. So for someone in your position, learning. I'm not, you know, learning the flow with your daughter,

your child, and starting the process. Manisha, how many minutes a day do you think someone should practice with their child? Yeah, at least 15 minutes to start with every day, but then go up to an hour.

And then what the individual wants to do. The individual is a, is a, is a child who wants to learn a lot of new things and is timing, yeah. Then you can go for hours and hours. You know, one thing that I feel like has come up a lot.

And it might be good for both of you to talk about. I think because you're in different perspectives of it, is, so many parents are given very little hope. And they're for, do not presume competence, especially because they're such a behaviorist bent to our society, right?

You watch behavior. But from the non-speakers that I've interfaced, like talk to, so often what they'll say is like the baseline for communication is being presumed that you're competent, right? It's everything.

I know you're smart. I know you're in there. I know you can do this. I've been no doubt, and I think for even parents, you don't presume competence for a very long time.

Absolutely. Even when you think you are, even when you think you are, you think I'm presuming competence. But then you start to have these little doubts, and you can't. You just can't.

Well, a lot of parents who've even come in here at talk will say, I'll see other kids learn to spell and learn to come in. You can get open and I think, oh, well, that's that kid, Mike. Yes, yeah, and I loved the spellers movie.

“It's wonderful, but the only thing I wish they would have”

said more was about, because they showed, and did the process, because they showed a lot of kids

spelling after like being open after like the second session.

And that just doesn't, that's just not the norm. So I wish they would have kind of talked a little bit about the process more that it's not. You just can't stick a keyboard in front of a kid, and he's going to start spelling.

No, and I think we, but we want it so bad that you really just have to be patient, and you just have to be patient, and just go through the process, and you will get the reward, but it's just being patient. And it can take months or years.

It can take months or years. But you know why, because I think this is what confuses people, especially people who are spelling skeptics will say, well, why can you put a board in front of someone, and they can spell with Manisha really well,

but not, so when it's school or not with a parent or something, how do you explain that? - I mean, I want to hear from you. - That's neuroscience. Autism is very, very new, okay?

Our brain is so hard wired for everybody. I go to a doctor, and if I'm not feeling well,

first doctor tells me, don't worry, take this medicine,

it'll be, it'll be all good. And you just know, I take a medicine, and fortunately for autism, there is no such guarantee, there is no such hope, the box is empty. When a parent like me sees the box is empty,

I, my perspective was, oh, the box is empty, means I can put so many things into the box now. What do you do when you have empty box? If you see a box empty, you're gonna put a lot of things. - Meaning you're trying different methodologies.

- Yeah, it's the treatments. - Yes, but that was my perspective. - So what you're saying is, because there is no across the board treatment for autism or praxia or the ability to speak,

can look like an empty box, there's no treatments, sorry. And some parents just take that as a death sentence in a way. Like at the end, there's nothing more we can do. Just accept that our child might be suffering or might not be able to communicate

or might have these dangerous behaviors that are hurting itself and flicking it, harm or whatever. But you're saying that another way to look at it is like, oh, I'll try everything.

- Yes.

- Yes. - And what's, I think the most frustrating thing I would imagine as a parent with a child with autism is that it's different for everyone. - It is different for everyone.

- I always say, there's like a million,

you have a huge thing of keys, a ring of keys. - And one of them can unlock your child. And you just have to, if some people are lucky and the first key they try, it works. And for other people, there's lots of keys

“and you have to go through a lot of them”

before you find the one that works. On the way here, I was reading, you do an autism? - Yeah, yeah, yeah, I do, yeah, what a great book. I mean, and one of the things that he talks about

why he would not spell with some people was because of, he would see colors. He would see their aura. And if they were a certain color, he knew that those people were not,

or he could just feel whether or not, if they have any doubt, they wouldn't think, he couldn't spell either. - Thank you. - So it was like, there's a lot that goes into what I think.

I think they see people's aura, they feel energies, doubts, fears, and they just refuse if they, some people, I think, say they can't, or they don't want to.

- Yeah, it's Ciana open with you, yeah? - Yeah, yeah, Ciana's open with you. - Yeah, right away. - And right away, given any information that has been really helpful to you around me,

but she likes it, doesn't like it? - Yeah, we haven't. - We haven't, yeah, yeah, I need to see her more because now I know which techniques to use with her. - When Ciana was first diagnosed at like two years old,

we did a lot of bio-med stuff, like, first we tried to die it. I did the gluten-free, case-in-free, soy-free, for like four years, we did so many supplements. I mean, I did Crano-Sackle therapy.

We did a little bit of M&R I reflux integration a little bit, but that requires all,

“you have to be doing with them every single day.”

- I did, we did her, I'd have to do it like every day. Which is hard to work. - Yeah, I mean, so I, we tried a lot and we spent thousands of dollars and with very little progress.

But, you know, something like spelling, if I can get her to be open with me, she can tell me what makes her feel good. What's, what's helping, what does she feel better if I give her this, if I don't do this?

Because guessing is hard. It's hard to see, you know, especially when you're not seeing that much progress, I think it's definitely worth trying. And I think it's, I've seen how it's helped a lot of kids,

the kids of my, of my friends or whatever, but in for some kids, I do think some of them are non-responders and I think my daughter was one of them. She just didn't respond or she responded very negatively to, we did, we tried to do a killation.

I mean, then she had her horrible regression with that. I mean, so it's, there's just so much. And you just have, like, the all those keys and you have to try them. And I think it's worth trying, but I reach the point

that I said, I don't want to do anymore. - Yeah, and I've heard this from so many parents, you try everything, sometimes it doesn't work or it's in that negative. - Yeah.

- And then you're done. It's exhausting. You just give up because kind of. - Yeah. And I mean, my daughter is, she has some language.

She's, I'm not completely close to trying things, but I've tried so many and I want to tell you so many that I just, I don't know. I just feel like I need for her to spell, 'cause I think that's where independence will come

or, you know, it's as much as more autonomy. And then she can tell me what she wants, what's what she needs. And I think, and when each of this is where you could probably weigh in on this too, you'd probably meet

so many parents through your center, who are at the end of the rope, who've tried everything, who have very little hope left. I've heard from a lot of parents who were at that space,

“that the only thing that ended up working”

and changing their lives was spelling. Because negative behavior switched, they were able to figure out what their kid needed or didn't need, even just simple things, like meeting parents who said they thought

their child loved a cartoon not live, so they do that. And then when their child starts spelling, they're like, I hate that, it's so frustrating and so annoying. - Yeah.

- And never play that for me again, you know,

which you don't know, I think you're in the right thing. So, I mean, do you think of all the things parents could try if you could just one thing, what would it be? - It is so hard, because every child is different, but you mentioned the one,

use the autonomy, autonomy. - Brain development. - Was that? - Brain development. - Right. - It's extremely important.

Of a kid's brain is not maturing. Of a kid's reflexes are not integrated. They have a lot of inflammation in the body. - Something that has helped though, I had a run 11, around 10 years old,

she started to show size of puberty. And then her behavior has got really bad. And I was at my wedding, and I didn't know what to do. So I, what I did what I never thought I would do, and I went to a psychiatrist, and she's on.

So loft, and it's been wonderful. - Really?

And I never thought, in a million years, I would try,

It's, the anxiety is so much better.

It's probably helped more than anything else. - Oh, that's fascinating. - How have you reconciled now the telepathy with the very, almost like fearful religious point of view, of this is dark or something dangerous?

“- I think anyone should read the book of heaven,”

because when I heard about Katie and Houston, and how, he was very spiritual, and I read the book, and it just completely, just, I just, there's no way you can read that book and read Houston's thoughts,

and think there's anything demonic about it. In those dark moments with Autism, I mean, you're seeing kids suffer, and you're suffering, and you're like, "Where's God in this?" And then to learn about, he's been with them this whole time.

- Yes. - He's been there, he's been there. He found a way to reach them when we couldn't, you know, it's just, to me it was so comforting. It's like a comforting, like, he's been there

the whole time he's found a way to bring peace to our kids when they didn't have peace in this world. I mean, to me, it was, it was a complete opposite of someone like it was beautiful. - I, I think just to add to that,

which is so, I think, important, right? Is that, you know, there's people in our film, Hindu, Orthodox Jewish, Christian, Muslim, I mean, or that, like in the top of Dave's universe that we've talked to, or agnostic,

and the wonderful, most amazing thing

is once the children's are spelling openly, even if the parents weren't deeply, they were devoutly religious and whatever, when whatever denomination they come from, the kids seem to have this profound,

deep connection with God, absolutely. - And also, quite often, we'll talk about spending time somewhere else with God, or with, you know, I don't even know what, but it's really beautiful, it's beautiful.

And I don't know how you can hear that and hear those words and hear it from these non-speakers and think that there's anything negative about it. Like, how can you believe that? It's almost got a way of keeping them connected

'cause they know that kids need connection, and we only connection, and that's, and they didn't have the ability to connect in this physical world, so he did it in this spiritual world. To me, it was so comforting that all those times

that I was like, where are you God? He was there, he was there all along with our babies, and it's a very beautiful thing, it's love, it's love. So how can you see anything, see it as anything other than, than what God wants?

- Yeah, and I also think, I've said this before, when someone's like, but what is prayer? You pray in your head and expecting someone to hear it. That is telepathy, if you're Catholic

and you're praying to a saint, you're doing it in your head. Something a majority of the American public have said that they will talk to deceased loved ones. - Yes. - And they're mind, there's this deep understanding

they can hear me, if you don't have a body you can hear me. Like, that isn't that far flung, but suddenly when it's like, person a person, it's like, oh, oh, yeah. So Betsy, why don't you just kind of like,

are there any questions or thoughts or feelings

“or even lessons that you want to share with people, right?”

I'm like, where you've been, where you're at right now, where you're hopeful about it? - Yeah, I think the spelling is what's gonna unlock so much. - And how are you feeling hopeful about spelling? - Oh, I'm very hopeful.

Yeah, I bet I'm not giving up, I'm not giving up on spelling, because that is her way to communicate. And so I have to keep going. I have to, and I think once she can communicate with me and be open with me and tell me what she feels,

I can ask, or do you want to try this? Or do you not want to try? I can leave it up to her, because me trying to figure it out was, I think making both of us flushed, leaving both of us flushed. - Yeah.

- And so just kind of being focused on that and being, and just remember to be patient and that if they're not to open with it, it's probably our whole fall. And just having the, just starting from the bottom,

having no expectations, 'cause I think the more expectations we have, they're feeding off of that energy. And so I think that's, and that's for the spelling. As far as it's telepathy stuff, I think, for me,

“the big lesson is that you have to really be mindful”

of your thoughts. And I think that's not a bad thing. I think my daughter's helping me to try to be more positive, helping me not to go into those dark places. And I think that's a wonderful gift.

- Also, I want to tell every parent, and including me, not to be so hard in ourselves. - Yeah.

- Because so isolated, okay, we never, ever ask,

even like, I'll never ask, even pet scene. Remember, ask me, how are you in doing? - Yeah, it's true. - You know, it's very, it's not if you don't, I don't mean to, you know?

a child is having a behavior or may not, or a regression,

just brings us down. - Yeah. - It just affects us. So it's very, very, very hard. And if you need to take a break,

there is no guilt feeling. - No. - Do things for you. - We definitely are really hard at ourselves.

We play ourselves a lot for a lot.

- And there is no perfect coaching for us, because what the coach will write for us, you know, we need to sit down and ask, what do I want to do? And it just affects the overall energy in the house.

“- So it's very, very important to do things for yourself,”

keeping the guilt away. - That's a great note to end on. - Because it's truly, parents who are giving so much of their times, to children who need more, it is a love that is beyond anything,

I think most people have ever understood the amount of perseverance and patience and you have to give yourself slack. And also don't forget your individual's journey, become the debt one card month, and not compare,

because I think we tend to compare, especially when we see some kids spelling faster or doing better, or in that comparison, it's just not soothing anybody, it's not helping at all. - Okay, so thank you all for joining us.

“If you want to learn more about Manisha's Center”

in New Jersey, you can go to aafsensorypathway.com and there's classes and workshops and resources there, thank you both for joining us. - I want an awesome conversation. - Thank you. - And I wish you both the best of luck.

- You have to keep us posted. - I will. - Thank you, yes, yes, yes. - That's it for this episode of The Talk Tracks, but new episodes will be released every Wednesday. So stay tuned, as we work to unravel all the threads,

even the veiled ones that knit together are reality.

“And please remember to stay kind, stay curious,”

and that being a true skeptic requires an open mind. To dive in deeper, subscribe to our backstage pass by visiting our website with it. You'll unlock access to bonus content, like telepathy tests, ask me anything interviews

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Thank you to my amazing collaborators,

producers Katherine Ellis and Selena Kennedy, technical directing audio mix and finishing by Jeremy Cole, opening and closing music by Elizabeth P.W. and original logo and cover art by Ben Condor Design. I'm Kai Dickens, your executive producer, writer, and host.