Dave Smith: Mossad, WWII Myths, FBI Cover-Ups, and Trump’s Critical Next Move in Iran

So it does seem like in addition to everything

official date, thank you, as always, we're late,

because we just had such a long breakfast too, and if our breakfast, I hope this conversation could be interesting as our breakfast just was. But in addition, everything else changing, you made such a smart point a minute ago about the means of convincing

the public, the propaganda machine is completely broken. And so what does that mean? You're in the middle of a war, you're the middle of a massive power shift globally. Like, everything is changing, the economy, military strength, everything, and it's impossible to know who is telling the truth.

“Like, who comes out more credible than us in the media?”

Like, who are the people you listen to, what's that look like? >> Well, I think everybody who's being authentic, I think is who's coming out ahead of this. It seems like if you look at the podcast numbers, it's the people who are being critical of the regime's policies,

it's the people, from my perspective, the people who are telling the truth. And so in the media world, I think there's been this, as you know, because you were in the old media world for so long. >> Only 35 years, there you go, not that long.

>> Just a little bit, you put a little bit of time there. >> I'm implicated, yes.

>> I always thought, and I used to watch you back on your MSNBC show,

and you were always one of the very few kind of authentic people. Even when you were wrong about stuff and things that you look back on, you know, like, I've changed my mind about all that. But it's an incredibly phony world. Like, news in general, there's something about it that's very,

you know, it's very welcome back to the virtual clock news. But, you know, like, it's just like, what is that? >> That's not how you talk. >> Your ability doesn't derive from being right about everything, credibility derived from being honest.

>> Yes, yes.

“But so I think after the first 20 years or so, first 15 years”

of the 21st century, and, you know, at this point, what we're 26 years into the 21st century now, it's the government, every single crisis that's happened, and we've had quite a few, you know, at 9/11, and we had global war on terrorism.

We had the huge financial crash in 2008. We had COVID, we had that. Okay, so on every single crisis, the government and the media just lied through their teeth to the American people, and got exposed.

Like, it's not like anyone now thinks, like, maybe Saddam really did have weapons of mass destruction, right? We all know. We all know if you get the vaccine. >> But that vaccine is safe.

>> But that vaccine is safe. >> Turns out, you can get COVID, even after having the vaccine, as everyone who got the vaccine also got COVID, or just about.

And so it was like all these phonies and media lying us, on behalf of power lying to us about these policies. And at the same time, as they were getting exposed for all of this, and I do think COVID did it almost more than anything, because the global war on terrorism was over there.

But COVID was over here, and it affected everyone. Also, obviously, the, you know, covering for a clearly seen aisle president, was a pretty easy one for everyone to see through. But so, while all that was happening,

also, the technology simultaneously got to a point where, you know, you can do this for a reasonable amount of money. You know what I mean? Like, it's not, in 1980, if you wanted to set up your own TV studio,

you needed a corporation to get the energy, because who had the resources, whereas everyone now can open their computer. If you have a phone, you can record yourself and put it out there.

So, the technology allowed for tremendous parity, and the lying us into all of these disasters, resulted in people really craving authenticity. And so, you know, it's just like, the propaganda machine got broken.

Now, to your point, the policies are still going on, and that just creates a very interesting new time.

Like, there, just, there never was,

I cannot imagine, if, while George W. Bush was trying to, you know, push the Warren Iraq. Let's say, for all of 2002,

“they spent the full year building the case for what?”

Well, imagine every day, Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity, we're calling out George W. Bush for his lies. Like, the people who George W. Bush voters trusted the most, were hearing their favorite newscaster,

calling it, telling the truth, doing news. Well, you can't even fathom what that would be. Well, that's what it's like now. Now, that's the situation. And, I don't know what that means exactly,

but I know that governments all around the world have invested heavily in propaganda campaigns for a reason, because they think that's really important. They think it's important that they don't just go invade Iraq,

that he's got nuclear weapons, and he's in bed with the terrorists,

and, you know, whatever, kind of ease arise. So, we don't want the warning to be in the form of a mushroom cloud from the bomb that doesn't exist. His terrorist friends who he hates, who he's not friends with at all, but, so now we're in this new world,

and it's very exciting as someone who's a part of it, and it's an exciting moment to be alive, but it is certainly a dangerous one. You know, they say the most dangerous time for a woman to leave, and the most dangerous time for an abused woman

is when she tries to leave, right? Like, that's when he might kill you. And that's kind of how I feel about the government, right now.

“I think you're, I think that's, first of all, so well put, and also so true,”

because it can't actually last that much longer, because the disparity in power is too great. So I think a lot of people who have podcasts,

I've been in so many different kinds of media.

It's hard to remember what this one's called. Let's podcasting, it's the same, you know? Sure. It's a kind of silly term that doesn't really make sense. It doesn't.

We don't have iPods anymore. I don't know why. It's just that one just stuck for whatever reason. It's so true, but people who have, you know, the independent media feel like they have a lot of power.

Well, it got so much power. They have no power. They don't control the, the medium, really, they don't control YouTube. Yeah, they don't have the FBI, they're disposal.

They don't have nuclear weapons. So actually, they are powerless and through a quirk of history because we're in a change moment. That's not obvious, but it has to be obvious. There's too much at stake, right?

“Yeah, I, there was a, don't they have to be crushed?”

I think it was the CNN lady. She used to work for vice, I believe. But the girl who was like known for interviewing like the alt right figures and she interviewed Tim Dillon last year and it was right after Trump won his election and or shortly after.

And she said, you know, something like you guys are the real, the power center now, you know? It's like, you podcasters, you guys are the ones with power. Because I guess, well, okay, the more people watch these shows than watch the traditional shows and Trump came and did a bunch of them.

And then he won reelection and Kamala Harris was too scared for wisely. People say, that was a real mistake. She should have done a rogan. No, it wasn't. It was a really good call.

It was a really, really good call by her team to not do rogan. Actually, it was like after 2016 when they were like, you know, Hillary Clinton's campaign is so stupid. She didn't visit Wisconsin more. And you're like, you really think they're that stupid.

No, numbers went down every time she went. So they were like, stop going. They didn't like her. That's why she didn't go. That's which it was actually the her best chance was that.

But anyway, but so that so, you know, they say, oh, you guys, you know, since you guys got president Trump elected, you're the real power center now. And it's like, pretty sure the CIA still has a little bit of power.

“I think they're still like a little bit hanging on in the pentagon.”

I'm not quite sure it's all in Theo Vaughn's hands at this point. You know, but yes, so that's the thing. So can't continue. I mean, let's be totally honest. If you, whatever one forgets about tank man and Tiananmen Square

is like, we don't even know what happened to him. You don't know his name. Probably crushed by the tank, actually. Oh, certainly yes, not laughing. I am laughing because just a delusion that people have.

I've got a voice. It's like, well, but that's the weird. It's very strange for both these things to be going on at the same time. So I said to you, breakfast, my my analogy is the, you know, on the road runner cartoons when you run off the side of the cliff.

Yeah, but you're still in air for a moment. And then you looked down and realized, oh, it's like we're there. Like, how can you keep doing this? So those people, I mean, and you know, obviously, from me personally, like, it's kind of fascinating because I've been in this world.

And over the last two and a half years or so, I've done. I mean, like, if you can't, like, all the, you know, debates and it appears Morgan debates or Oxford style debate. I'm like 35, 40 debates on, you know, just Israel or the warfare state or whatever it is. You crane a lot of these things.

And I've never, it's like the side broadly speaking.

Because there's a lot of differences amongst people who disagree with, say, the war and Iran or a US support for Israel destroying Gaza. But broadly speaking, it's not only like we've won the debate. We've like just crushed the, you know, and it's not just me. There's lots of people involved in this.

You more so probably than anyone. But when you see, like, if you look at the polls, there was this one poll. I saw, and that this is just one poll, but there's a lot that back this up. But that it was before October 7th that asked, could you sympathize with more the Israelis or the Palestinians?

And it was plus 48 for the Israelis. Yeah, it's now plus one for the Palestinians and in the US, in the US.

And Tucker, I mean, I don't know, you've been, you were doing this for longer than me. When does that ever happen? When does any issue ever swing by 50 points in two years? It would be, like, if you, if I were to tell you in two years, this country would be 95% pro-life. You know, it's like, whoa, what happened in those two years?

“Well, I mean, the pro-life is most or really won the argument, you know what I mean?”

Like, and so now that we've had for the first time ever, a media environment where, say, Israel is not completely protected. Like, what were the debates about supporting Israel on MSNBC or CNN?

No, they don't exist. They never happen.

You're not allowed to have those debates there. There's not maybe like one kind of critical of Israel host will slip in here or there. But if he says too much is getting fired pretty quickly. And so, so we essentially won the debate. Wait, it's not close. It's not, but it's not a question of fast.

Yes, in a very short period of time, because there was actually a fair open media system now, where, you know, it was really democratized in a way. And so, you can't look at go. Does, you know, are you're bigger than you've ever been before? Canada's owns is bigger than she's ever been before.

I know, I'm bigger than I've ever been before. Ben Shapiro is weaker and more of a laughing stock than ever before. You know, like, it's just very, yeah. But then, at the same time, who won the policy game, Mark Levin, you know, the president is tweeting, go watch Mark Levin show today.

“And his, his base, his voters are going, I think I'll check out Tucker Carlson.”

You know, I think I'll, and so, so anyway, there's just this very weird thing. Like, we won the argument. We had the national debate. We, and we won, and yet we're at war with Iran on behalf of Israel. And I think what you're getting at is like, that does just feel totally unsustainable.

Like, there's either you got a clamp down on these guys like us, or you got to reverse the policy. And really hoping it's the latter. So, whether it's warming, which means grilling is here.

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Safe. With visor, Staya. So, most people don't wake up in the morning and decide they feel horrible. Exhausted, foggy, disconnected from themselves. But it does happen and it happens slowly.

You're working hard, you're showing up and in your energy disappears by midday, your focus is dull, your weight won't move, a lot of people are told, that's just getting old.

“That's what it is, but that's not actually true.”

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work, and 20% off all supplements. That's Joanne Blocks.com/tucker, use the code Tucker, 50% off labs, 20% off supplements, joinblokes, get your edge back, and it's excellent. People don't like to be criticized for their mistakes, and I know this from having a wife and children, totally fine to be, you know, criticized for something you feel confident

and it's the right thing. But if you screw something up and someone says, say, I told you, you want to shoot the

It's very hard for people to deal with that.

And so if you have a world like this, which is obviously, you know, there's one of

“the most profound moments of my lifetime, which is much more profound than 9/11, I think,”

thankfully, not as, you know, relatively few Americans have died, but you can see that this is the end of something and the consequences are very, very serious. And the middle of that to criticize the decision to start the process that led to this feels like you're going to be punished for that. Yeah.

How do you feel that? Yes, I know exactly what you mean, and I, you know, I almost, like, on some, I don't know, in some way, I feel like the political thing or the wise calculation here would almost be to be like, Mr. President Trump, you did such a phenomenal job with this and it's such a success that we should just stop right now and declare victory or so they

like, you know what I mean? But I'm just no good at being a political operative. I'm only good at telling the truth, like it's all like, I only have one speed, you know, Ben Shapiro called me out recently and called me a bunch of names and then said, she said, I know, I can hear Dave right now saying, debate me, bro, if you believe this, why don't

you debate me? Because no, no, I don't debate with it. But he's kind of right in a way that that is my response, I mean, I only have one speed. It's all I know how to do, but compound cast with me, like I don't know anything else. So we'll because you're rooted in kind of the old America where, you know, there was

a free market, not just in the economy, but like intellectually, free market of ideas. Yeah, we're supposed to have it at least. Yeah, that the whole country is built on that. Yeah. And so, but so that Ben Shapiro and, et cetera, they don't share that feeling.

Well, he knows the ideas can't hold up. I mean, he'll, he'll debate a 19 year old gender confused kid because he knows he can win that debate, you know, it's not that that kid's more serious than me, you know, that's not really the issue, but anyway, I guess, so just to that, like, I only have one speed,

“I only know how to just tell you what I think is really going on here.”

And, and I think you're right, I think it's, this is such a disaster because Donald Trump,

first of all, it'd be very difficult at this point, even if he wanted to just stop,

but then, which I think he does at this point want to stop the thing, I think he, it seems to me, like he believed this could be quick with an easy, like, Venezuela and we're way past that at this point, but he can't just stop now, well, obviously, there's the Iranians and the Israelis are involved in this, too, and it doesn't, it doesn't seem like either of them want to stop right now.

So there, you got a big problem, but also, look, this isn't Venezuela. There's, I don't know, what the latest sent-com numbers are. About 13 dead Americans was the last I saw, the 150 plus wounded number came out weeks ago. I don't know what that's up to now.

Our bases and, you know, in the region have been very badly damaged, the damage to the global economies. So it's not Venezuela, you know, you can't just come out of this and then pretend something really great happened. If he stops right now, then it's like, oh, you just started a disaster for no reason on

behalf of a foreign country. Like, this is just awful. And then there's a couple factors I've seen this play. I know you've seen this over the years, certainly during the global war on terrorism, where there is, I guess what you could call, like, the sunk cost fallacy of war, which

is the worst of all sunk cost fallacies. You know, but it's, you go, you go, well, those boys died for nothing if we don't finish the job.

“And it's like, oh, man, is that a bad trap to get into?”

Because the reality is that those boys died for nothing, that's over.

And if you continue this, more boys will die for nothing. And so no one, you know, Pierce Morgan had a panel once or a debate between Scott Horton, who is the, as you know, you've had them on the show. The most incredible foreign policy guy in the country, like just unbelievable levels of brilliance, and his books, enough already, fools Aaron, which are about the global war on

terrorism, are the best books written on the subject. His book provoked about the war on Ukraine as the best book written on the show. There's literally exhaustive. I only know Scott Horton because of you and what improvement to my life. But yeah, I mean, he's the, he's, he's been such an incredible resource.

Like he's a good, great friend of mine, one of my closest friends, but he's also just been, he's like my mentor in the foreign policy stuff. And he's just so great because he's, like, he's such a tool. Because he's got a photographic memory. So like I can literally just call him at any point.

And you'll just be like, when Iran invaded Iraq in 1980, the, in 1982, weren't they fighting here? And then he'll just be like, yeah, they were fighting here and here, and then this guy has all their names and everything. It's really incredible.

But so he was debating Wesley Clark on Pierce Morgan's show. Talk about the new media world that we live in and how crazy it is. Now that Scott Horton gets to square off with a four-star general. And Wesley Clark, who, you know, look, I have my issues with him, but he did give us that

So I'll always kind of be grateful to him now.

He tries to walk that back, but we all heard what you said.

“But he goes at one point talking about, I believe it was Gaza if I'm getting this correct.”

And he said this was while it was still, you know, intensely going on. And he goes, but if we just leave now, then Hamas gets to say they won. And you're like, sir, general, that's your opinion on war. But that's a recipe to be in forever war always. We can't ever leave anywhere because so what happens is you get this thing where it's like,

there's the sunk cost fallacy. We can't leave now because we have to win. And then Donald Trump is now, of course, he put his entire presidency on the line for this, which was really foolish. And so now he's just, he's got to get a win.

And then I can get out, you know, so let's do a big thing. But then you do a big thing and they respond with a big thing. And then you get shoot. Now we got to respond to that. And this is the escalation trap, right?

And this was what people like me and you have been talking about for years. And all the war hawks in the country really enjoyed mocking me and you for the last seven months or whatever it's been from between the 12 day war and this latest war and Iran. Going, oh, you guys were acting like this was going to be a disaster and look, it wasn't a disaster.

Okay. We're back in it now and it's a disaster. And precisely zero of those people are going, oh, I guess I was wrong about that. No, no, they'll be claiming for you to be arrested and imprisoned. Yeah.

Of course, right. Because you know, your existence is a mark of shame because you remember. Right. So anyone who remembers has to be taken off the board.

I'm just interested not, I never think about, you know, those people, the mark, I say

a prayer from our clip in every day because it's a religion I'm supposed to. But he's not, I mean, Mark Levin's an idiot, he's not pulling any strings, he's a tool of larger forces. Yes. Yes.

What I'm fascinated by are the assumptions that like ordinary non-Mark Levin Americans have about the United States, the nature of power, history that allowed us to make the greatest mistake of my lifetime, which is this war.

“What are those, and a lot of this has to do with the Second World War?”

Yeah. Oh, yeah. So we're reading the wrong lessons into that and I just want to say for the 100th time, the opposite of Pronazi, I'm against authoritarianism in all its forms. But why is it that we look at the Second World War and then make a bunch of false assumptions

that get us into engagements like this that hurt us? Well, is that? What are the myths? Well, I think the way I look at it, right, and this is, you know, I've defended Darrell Cooper quite publicly quite often for what he said on your show, which it was, by the way,

it's so revealing and totally proves his point, the response to that. Because there's just no reason why that should have been such a huge thing, you know? But like, the thing is that-- Hey, Darrell Cooper did Hitler kill a lot of Jews, he did like hours of podcast on it. Yes.

Did Hitler kill a lot of Jews? I mean, what? That's not even-- He just put out episode two of his new series on World War II, which I've not--I heard the first one, I've not gotten a chance to listen to the second one yet for some sort of good.

They're all so good. They're all so good. They're all so good. They're all so good. They're all so good.

They're all really about that. I don't think any seen person.

I've never heard anybody in my life say Hitler didn't kill a ton of Jews or like, well,

did you know Hitler hate the Jews, killed a ton of Jews? That's bad. Everyone agrees with that. It's not really the Holocaust that they're mad about. That's not--

Well, look, I mean-- The threat, right. The most people don't wake up in the morning and decide to feel horrible, exhausted, foggy disconnected from themselves, but it does happen, and it happens slowly. You're working hard, you're showing up and in your energy disappears by midday, your focus

is dull, your weight won't move, a lot of people are told, that's just getting old.

“That's what it is, but that's not actually true.”

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It's just bloodbath in human history, and destroyed Europe, and it's just so horrible

“you think about that, that humanity reached such a height in the 19th century.”

The 19th century, there's two things that happened that could not have been predicted, would have seemed insane if you had predicted it beforehand, probably the two greatest achievements in human history are that, well, there's the Industrial Revolution, and for the first time ever, there's economic growth. If you look at economic growth on a chart, it basically doesn't exist until the Industrial

Revolution. There's just different portions as well. So for the first time ever, human beings escaped the back-brushing, back-breaking poverty of nature. You know what I mean, like so far?

Or there escapes zero sum economics. Yes, they're well, right. Zero sum economics, but just where people got rich by looting, now you can get rich by creating things that didn't exist. We could raise the standard of living in a meaningful way in very basic ways.

“And also there was the abolition of slavery, which just would have seemed like that was”

the way of the world for all of human history, and that I'm saying the abolition of slavery in the West, obviously, there are other parts of the world that still had it.

And the Industrial Revolution was in the West also, so these amazing things happen.

And then in the 20th century, we take that industrial capacity to go to total war with each other, and in the case of the first world war just over nonsense, I mean over a political assassination. It's not even common. Yeah, it's not like somehow this thing spins into this catastrophe.

But so after World War II, that's even bloodier than World War I, which was supposed to be the war to end all wars. And it wasn't. It was the war to create the conditions for the worst war in human history. And of course, as you've talked about and gotten a lot of heat for, civilians were targeted

on all sides, now, of course, we didn't go genocide all in the way that Adolf Hitler went, but we targeted cities when we knew the military was out, you know, targeting women

“in children, dropping nuclear bombs on cities.”

And so, and also, the kind of, the, the, the military industrial complex, the national security apparatus were truly created in the aftermath of World War II, like there were intelligence there, but the CIA has created, and the, you know, the form of government that we actually live under was kind of erected during and after World War II. And so you've got the most profoundly awful thing that's ever happened, and this new government

plus a new government in Israel, a couple of years later, that are created. And so when you have something like that, you really got to tell yourself a damn good story about why that is justified. And that's not, when you say this sometimes people go, oh, so are you saying the Holocaust didn't really happen?

It's like, no, they don't, it really happened. It really happened.

The point is that yes, the point is that the Holocaust happened in a context of 60 million

people dying. You know what I mean? Like, it's just a funny, it's all reduced to the, okay, just to be totally clear, not denying the Holocaust. Okay.

It's not about that. The thing, the immediate post-war changes that you just listed, the deindustrialization of the West, the partition of India, the creation of the national security state, if I could say, an authoritarian national security state in the West, delivering half of Europe to the Soviets, the partition of Germany.

Like these are all the genocide of German civilians, the genocide of German civilians after the war. Mass, mass, ethnic cleansing, mass, mass rapes and murders of all types of horrible people. And it's not a defensive Hitler who I oppose to say, all those are bad. It's just kind of interesting that this war, which is supposedly so great, gave birth to things

that are objectively the worst things. Yeah. And what is that? Well, look, I mean, it's a disaster of government, you know, total power. And they're, but look, even like, if you say, like, if you're talking about the Revolutionary

War, like let's just say, like, back in the 1980s or something like a school teacher who was teaching kids about the Revolutionary War, they don't go like, well, you know, the King of England was taxing a little bit more than he should. And then the framers kind of had these wild conspiracy theories about what he was going to come do.

None of that was really true.

And anyway, they got into the, you know, they tell you, George Washington never told

a lie. And when he chopped down the apple tree, he said to his paw, I can't lie to you. Because like, human beings just need this narrative. That makes. And so what ended up happening was that the very, when you challenge World War II orthodoxies,

you're challenging what Daryl calls the load bearing myths, you know, the load bearing pillars of the existence of the most powerful forces in the world. And, you know, look, it's very clear, like again, the reaction to Daryl is the proof

If somebody were to say, you know, this is how you find out what the national religion really is. You know, I could sit here and trash Thomas Jefferson for raping his slaves. It doesn't matter. This isn't going to generate any outrage at all, you know, in fact, it might generate

some applause from different quarters. And so, but you talk about this and it's very, very different. And then, as you've seen, as we've all seen, it's used to justify every subsequent war. I mean, like, everybody is just trying authoritarianism. Yeah, that's right.

Everybody is eight off Hitler. I've lived through the, the, you know, it's Saddam Hussein was eight off Hitler. Noriega was eight off Hitler, Bashar al-Assad is eight off Hitler. Vladimir Putin's eight off Hitler. You're eight off Hitler.

Nick Fuentes is eight off Hitler. Like, every time they want to smear someone, that's the smear they go with Donald Trump got the same treatment. And any time you oppose a war, well, you're a Neville Chamberlain.

“You know, if I, if I think like, hey, we should just put in writing that will never”

bring Ukraine into NATO, because man, this is causing all these, probably, okay, Neville Chamberlain, you would have just given Czechoslovakia to, it's like, dude, that's not the only lesson in history.

The only lesson in history is not always go with aggression, never go with de-escalation.

But so, that's kind of what this has been turned into. And I do think, um, but I would just say, big picture if it was such a victory, why are all the winners falling apart, less than 100 years later? Be out. Yeah, that's a weird point.

Like, what? I don't, again, shut up your pro Hitler for the fifth time. Not pro Hitler in any sense. Well, though. But what's the answer to that question?

Well, there's a brilliant philosopher named Rosie Perez, and in the film, Whiteman can't jump. She said, sometimes when you win, you really lose. Yeah. And that's true.

It is. It is such a simple, but very, very true statement. And there is something about, well, isn't it kind of interesting that the United States

“of America started as the experiment in restrained government, right?”

Like, there had really never been a government that was created, that was so restrained.

And the whole idea of it was like, we're going to take the power of a king, and then we're going to scatter that amongst three different branches in the federal government and the federal government really only oversees all these state governments that have their own autonomy. We are these United States of America. And even as we became more centralized, obviously, the articles of Confederation got overthrown

and the Constitution gets put in, and then you know, but even say, like, if you look after this, from the end of the civil war, this was always the best stuff about like Milton Friedman books and stuff. But in this part, I really think those Chicago guys got it right, that if you look from the end of the civil war, so like, 19 or excuse me, 1865 to around say, 1910, okay, in this

period of time, that you know, try to imagine that this was our government, okay? The US government, the federal government spent like maybe like one and a half or two percent of the national income, a tiny amount of sped or there's no mass federal regulation or anything like that. There was no central bank, there was no income tax.

It was just trying to imagine, like, this was truly in the closest to a real experiment in free market capitalism that humanity had ever seen. And the result of that was the biggest economic expansion in human history, the greatest raising of the lot and life of the average person, you know, like where the average person can actually have a pretty nice life and you could work at the factory and your wife

didn't have to work and you own to house and you sent your kids to college and you drove a couple cars, you played poker on the weekends with your buddy like you had a good life.

And if you look at the United States of America today, it is the most powerful government

in the history of the world. Like somehow this thing that started as an experiment in the smallest government became the biggest government that the world's ever known. And so there's almost something where what happens is these free markets create so much prosperity that there's so much more of a tax base.

And now the political class can tax you more and more and more and you're still living

“a pretty good life, even though they're getting fat off of you know what I mean?”

And so similarly, sometimes something like after World War II, you see this with America and then you really see it after the collapse of the Soviet Union where it's like because you win, you get so much power. But as Lord Atkins said, that power tends to corrupt. And so you get all this power, but then it totally corrupts your own soul.

And I think that's kind of the story of America. And I think it's the story of our lives, I mean the number of men I know who've gotten what they wanted, what they worked for, the job, the exit, you know, the sale of whatever they built, all of a sudden they win.

I've seen that so much, I've felt it in my own life, by the way.

“For sure, you know, easy success is not good for you at all.”

Struggle is good for you. And so I wonder if the United States was hollowed out by its own victory this loss. And unfortunately, I think we can say already it's hard to imagine getting out of this without being diminished. Yeah, I mean, what is a victory here?

I mean, you know, it's also a terrible situation where victory might victory, might be the worst case scenario. I mean, like, you know, like victory, like if the whole goal is to topple the regime, you're like, okay, but every other time we've toppled the regime in this neck of the woods, it's led to migrant crises and death and terrorism.

You can't topple the regime in the Persian Gulf because the world's energy supply needs to move through it. You have to extract it, refine it, make it into petrochemicals, do it if you fertilize you do everyone.

“In the Persian Gulf, then you have to get it out of the Persian Gulf.”

So that means you have to have a controlling authority. You have to have strong governments there, or else some rebel group, hoothies with drones, will shut the whole thing down. You have to have. You can't have chaos in Iran.

Yeah, they call it the Persian Gulf for a reason. Exactly. You need to call it the Arabian Gulf. The other half is Persian. It doesn't make chaos in the Persian Gulf means no energy or fertilizer from the Persian

Gulf period. So you're going to piracy there. So the option to that is keeping an Iranian regime in place.

And that means that Iran is more powerful than it was when the war started.

This is also, unless you nuke them, which is, I think, an option.

“And then you set off a chain reaction that, you know, is the worst thing imaginable.”

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Now, I think there's no way to see this as a win, I pray it is, but I don't see it. If it is a loss, maybe that is not all bad for the U.S. Well, I think sometimes things need to get really bad before they get better, you know, the things need to get bad so that people wake up even more. There's no question people have woken up a lot, but maybe people just need to get angry or, you know, and I don't know, I don't know what I'm trying to see this in the full list of history and it's planned.

But I just, because it feels like such a disaster, it's affecting my sleep. I love America, I have kids, I don't want this to happen, I'm not in control, obviously. So, but I do think that like, you're often surprised by the downstream results of things. I think people who return from Normandy would be shocked by the condition of the United States and Great Britain 80 years later. They are shocked, every see the main refuge, some hundred-year-old guys, like, we died for this?

Yeah, no, and it's totally, I mean, like, talk about just a scraping, bear sacros. Oh, you know, it's the greatest disgrace. Our self-abasement is an insult to their sacrifice on our behalf. But I wonder if the opposite isn't also true that maybe in your defeat, there are things that, I know this is true for me. Every time I've gotten sick or gotten fired, like, I just, I understand the world better and I become more joyful and stronger. Do you feel that?

Yeah, no, I, for sure. I mean, many times in my life and, yeah, you'll learn a lot more from your losses. Yeah, your defeats are actually your victory. Yeah, that's right. That's right.

And, but, you know, the problem is just this is man, we're just playing with fire, with this thing, because it's so dangerous.

You know, it's, um, what worries you most? Well, I guess, I'd say, number one, um, I, what we're doing to those people over there, I mean, I think is just like horrible.

But like, when your government takes your money and just starts slaughtering people and poor countries compare to us, you know?

Yeah, that's just so profound. What you do to others will be done to you. Yeah, that's a physics principle. You can't get away from that. So that's just, well, imagine, imagine like, uh, there was a guy who was, uh, like, a convicted pedophile.

And he had molested a bunch of, like, a racky children or a bunch of Iranian children. And then you were like, well, I'm going to have him babysit my kids. He only does it over there.

“You know what I mean, like, he only, he only felt like, what?”

No, dude. He's hurt children. You can't let him anywhere near your children.

Okay, well, these, these same monsters and government are the ones who are ruling over me and my family and my country.

And the idea that you just go kill, like, you know, uh, I said this on, on Rogan's show the other day about the, the, the school that we had. Like, like, 165 or 170, uh, little girls. And then people, you know, give each of those numbers haven't been verified. That's just the claim of the Iranian government goes, well, our government's not denying it. And in fact, they did an investigation and concluded it was almost certainly us.

It was a Tomahawk Miss all. What's the question here? We know where this came from. The only question left is like, who gave it that coordinates or did it miss or was that intentional? Whatever.

But like, kill a whole bunch of eight-year-old girls. I mean, Jesus, man. Is there anything more evil? You could do than that. So just on a, on a basic human level, you know, there's, like, this is normal.

I don't know what would do that. I think it was clearly accidental.

“But I also think having done a lot of accidental things, it's essential to apologize for it.”

Yeah. And anyone who doesn't apologize for it's a dangerous person will also even do that to them. You'll do it to my kids. Yeah. And it also, it stretches the definition of accidental a little bit because even if very specifically,

like, we were trying to hit this building, but instead we hit this building. And this is a point I've been making largely through the, um, Israel's destruction of Gaza, which was not that at all, they were just leveling the place. But you go, look, man, like you start, you start dropping bombs on people, you start blowing things up and you know innocent people are going to end up dying in that.

So in that sense, it is intentional. And maybe you didn't mean to hit that exact, you know, target or kill that many people. But like if, I'm just saying, if you, you know, if you blew up a building, you know, that you, you suspected somebody else was in, but then it turned out that there were a bunch of little kids there, it's still a pretty profound crime.

Um, but then, of course, on, on top of that, I, I really worry about getting trapped into, uh, a broader war, a wider war.

“There is not, I, and I don't, I'm not saying that I think this is going to be like a”

rack or Afghanistan. I think already this is very different than a rack in Afghanistan. There's a, a rack in Afghanistan did not have the ability to do what Iran is doing right now for one. Number two, I just don't, I don't think it's going to be that.

I, I don't think, I, I think it would be more the Libya or Syria model than than the Iraq or Afghanistan model, which did require a small amount of ground forces. So we used head shopping, Ben Ladenites in both of those cases, um, and put the Ben Ladenites in power in Syria, um, but just to be clear, our country would not survive another Iraq or Afghanistan.

So there's no United States of America coming out of that. We don't have a 20 year catastrophic ground invasion in us. Like it will, it will bankrupt the country. It will destroy the, the country culturally. So like, so that's a very scary thing.

We don't have, you know, in, in, in the launch of the global war in terrorism, we were coming out of the 1990s, this was a different country in the 1990s, you know, and, and anyone who was alive, then, did those, yes, yes, different people, different culture, different economic realities, different military realities, um, now then the other thing that I really,

really worry about with all of this is that we've never, really had, we've never dealt

with a full, like, Shiite, Jihad war against the West. You know, our beef was always with the Sunni radicals, um, those were the terrorists. We had to worry about the al-Qaeda and ISIS and stuff like that. And that was quite a big problem, um, you know, we, we had, um, a lot of terrorist attacks in America and in, in Europe, uh, particularly ISIS inspired attacks out al-Qaeda as well.

And, you know, so I, I've kind of called out some of these, some of these people, I'll do it again here because they're, like, some of the biggest frauds in the country. These, like, pretend intellectuals, like Sam Harris and Gadsad and guys like this who have spent a career, uh, demonizing Muslims, their entire career has been talking about what irrational violent people Muslims are, how awful the religion is.

if someone, you know, writes a cartoon about Muhammad, you don't have the right to kill them. Sorry. You want to be in the West. These are all rules here.

Free speech and I can make a cartoon about whatever the hell I want to make a cartoon about. Okay, but if you spent your whole career arguing how violent and irrational the Muslims are, what is, what is killing an eye at hola mean? You know, you know, that's not just a political figure.

You know, you, you murder an eye at hola and his entire family and we've already had a couple terrorist attacks over here that at least seemed like there was the shooting in, uh, Austin, Texas that came like the day after we launched the war and the guy was wearing like an hola Akbar Tish, I'm assuming that might be related. And so, you know, then you have this real issue of like, there's, unfortunately in, um,

in the old, like controlled American media and all the, you know, the, all the people like uh, um, Mark Leven and all these guys, when they talk to their audience, whatever audience

they got left and they always love to talk about how a round chance death to America, you

know, which they do. And I'd like it if they stop doing that. It's not the nicest chance, um, but none of them ever even try to say, to out, even approach the question of why, why do they chant that to America? Why do they hate us so much?

And this was the hardest for a freedom chance, right? So the older you get, you realize how fast everything can change one day, everything is fine. It's great. And the next day things are not great at all. That's just the nature of it.

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Amazone beats all frisch-gabactenen-eltern in the logistics center, extra-family in Boni. So we're going on, the right way is a new goal to get to the farmland. Your goal is to win the most beautiful city of the world. That means, it's the same as the most beautiful city of all. This was after this is so funny that it is so funny that that was funny in a dark way,

but that that was actually the question, I remember, I was 18 when 9/11 happened. I remember asking that question with all sincerity, and that was actually the national conversation.

That was the first question before it got answered with, they hit, when 9/11 happened,

the average Joe six-pack American went, "Why do they hate us?"

“That's how ignorant we were of our own position in the world.”

We didn't even know there was a beef, what do we do? We thought Bill Clinton was the time of peace and prosperity. That's what Americans considered that time. The time of peace, Iraqis did not consider that a time of peace. Hundreds of thousands of more, we're getting killed due to the blockade, Clinton's bombing campaign.

It wasn't peace and Serbia. You know what I mean? It wasn't like, but to us, it was like, "Ah, that has little wars. They didn't really mean anything." But it wasn't, now all you got to do is ask that question, and I'm sure it's almost

like implicit in the mark within world that well, why do they hate us? Well, I don't know because they're crazy, darker darker people, and they hate us. You know, there is Lamo fascists. I don't know. That's what they do.

They hate. But if you ask Iranians, and not the ones who are, you know, paid by my son to promote wars, but like if you, they'll tell you very quickly why they hate us. And the whole beef rate goes back to 1953. We overthrew their government, we installed a dictator who they did not like very much,

who was not very kind to his political opponents to put it mildly. And then the other big thing that they point out all the time is in 1980, Saddam Hussein invaded Iraq.

“Now, a lot of people from my generation remember this because this is actually what the”

Neocons would, they would often like vaguely cite this when they were trying to push the war against Iraq, they're like, he used chemical weapons against civilians. He's like, yeah, what they leave out is that they were backing him when he did that.

And they backed and gave the green light for Saddam Hussein to invade the country.

“And so, you know, Iranians remember that.”

Like they remember that. There was, I think, 500 or 600,000 Iranians died in that war. Like they remember this very well.

By the way, another lesson from that war is, they never surrendered.

Even after taking losses like that, these Shiites are not playing around when it comes to matters like that. They fought and fought and fought. And so, anyway, I say all that just to say that it's like these things do inspire hatred. And they inspire hatred for generations and generations.

When generations. In fact, it's real. Yeah, it turns out. In 2002, a letter emerged written by a summer bin Laden, of course, was then still alive. That he had written right after 9/11 in Can de Har before he fled to Torbora.

And it came out a year later in the Wall Street Journal. And I worked at CNN at the time, and I read it on the air, to answer that question. What is this about? Why did you do this? And the letter, which briefly became famous before it was pulled off the internet, said,

I'm mad that you have troops in Saudi, where Mac and Medina are, and I'm mad about your sport for Israel.

And that's why I did this.

I wasn't trying to justify 9/11, it can't be justified in my opinion. That's right.

“But I think it's important to know why things happen, because you want them to happen again.”

Well, a group of rabbis got together and called me an anti-Semite, which I wasn't then and I'm not now, and tried to get me fired from my job. I'll never forget that. And CNN called me the word called me, and I'm like, I wasn't attacking anybody. Of course.

Yeah. I just think it's more than Americans don't know. I think they've been prevented from knowing. Yeah. That's right.

That actions have reactions. Well, that's why the term blowback that was coined by the CIA, and what they described it as, was it's not just like we do a thing, and then there's a reaction to it. It's that we do a covert thing, and then there's a reaction to it, and then the American people have no idea what this is even in response to.

It's just like, whoa, add a nowhere. These guys attack us, and you know, when that, but we're going to need a police state to protect ourselves from the blowback of this war. I mean, that's that's a real concern. That's that problem.

Yeah. That's a real concern. That's a real concern. Yeah. That's a real concern.

We're so vulnerable. I mean, this country's wide open. And all of our infrastructure, our energy infrastructure, our food, our water, all of its unguarded.

“And the only way to protect ourselves from the inevitable blowback is that she attirers, and”

we're going to get, of course, killing the riotola is going to be to turn this into a surveillance state even more than it is. Yeah. And, and of course, also on top of that coming off of the Biden years where we don't even know who's who's here.

We have no, like, I mean, it's just that the mix of these policies, like the mix of the, of having forever wars and open borders is just got to be the, the, and a welfare state. Yeah. I mean, like to throw everything in a drug war. On top of that too, and a drug war, so that drugs are illegal.

There's a black market that the gangs want to smuggle the drugs and, like, every single policy on top of it just makes this situation like so much worse. But yeah, you know, when that, when the, or some have been laden's letter to America went viral on TikTok before it was many, many, many years later. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. My sport. It's just bringing it to the country. Yes. To be clear, this is written in 2002.

It was like a couple years ago when it went super viral on TikTok. All the young leftists were, like, sharing it and they were going, like, oh, my God, look at this turns out. Now, of course, they're leftists.

So, it always, they always think too collectively, right?

And so I saw a bunch of people going, turns out he was right, or he was the good guy. And you're like, no, no, no, that is not the take away from this. Like, you know, there was that, that, that one time the guy, Hassan Piker, who's like a left, lefty, like a streamer, and he had said that America deserved 9/11. And that was like what got him in a lot of trouble for it.

And it's like, but no, stop speaking like a leftist. We're not, we're not collectively, we're individuals. And the individuals who had nothing to do with these policies did not have it coming. Having practices to win those on the world and get killed. Yeah, yeah.

You don't do the whole, but now, what Osama Ben Laden said, I don't think this was in the letter to America. I think it was in, it might have been, it was either that or in his declaration of war. He had two declarations of war against America also. But what he said is that civilians are fair game, because you vote for, you know, you vote

the Bill Clinton's and the George Bush's in, who slaughter all of our children, and so you're fair game. Now, that's the logic of Osama Ben Laden, the psychopathic, you know, terrorists. And that's, and the whole point of why we're against all this shit is because we reject that.

We don't agree with that. That's not. And you know who else use that same logic? You got damn Zionist who said, they elected Hamas in Gaza.

They had one election 20 years ago where Hamas won with pluralities.

“But that was enough for them to say to kill their kids in the conscience.”

And so, so no, the whole point is that, no, you don't have the right to take vengeance on innocent people. That is the standard of civilization. I have said that, you know, pretty consistently, for the past couple of years, and I thought that was like just a baseline understanding that everyone in America knew and believed.

I thought that was the whole point of America. That's what civilization is. You can't punish the innocent. And that turns out to be incredibly antisemitic.

I didn't know that, but I've never up until recently, all the Jews I knew were 100%

on board with that. I mean, I can just like hear a rabbi going, you can't kill the innocent. Amen. Yeah. Brother.

Except in this one. But now it's like, all of a sudden, I don't know, I don't think it's about any specific group. In fact, by definition, it's not. It's a human standard to which we should all be held and do our best to hold others.

You can't kill the innocent. Yeah, and also it's not, you know, it's not about one specific group because... Well, by definition, it's not about one specific group. But also it's not, it's also just not, you know, and this is the problem when people try

to make it about the Jews, and it's so weird the dynamic because I watch you, you literally

bend over backward to say that it's not about the Jews as much as possible. Because it's not. So the point, and as someone who's like a Jewish fan of yours, I find myself going like, you could stop making that. Well, you've said it enough.

You know what I mean? But you do every opportunity. You go, I don't believe it. It's because I'm afraid of Jews at all. No, you already need that.

You're not afraid of anybody. It's because I think it's the standard that we have to uphold.

“Well, also everyone is insisting that that's what you're really saying.”

And so you want to go, no, I'm not saying that. I just, that's why I've been defending Muslims. It's not because I'm Muslim, we're taking money from Qatar, to late now. We were in the economy, but it's because I think these are human rights bestowed by God. And they apply to every person, because they're inherent in every person, because every

person is created in the image of God, that's the point I'm trying to do. And I completely agree with you, I also think it's just frankly inaccurate. I mean, it's not, look, I know, I saw one poll today that said 60% of American Jews support the war in Iran, which hey, that's a lot higher than the general population. But that means 40% of them don't.

You know what I mean? And so like, that's a huge, huge percentage of them.

I think a third of Jews in New York voted for this mom, Donny Guy.

Now, I'm annoyed with them for other reasons, because he's a crazy socialist, but they're clearly not on board with the Israel lobbies plan here. And then, of course, as you've done a better job of exposing them than anyone I've ever seen, there is a lot of like Ted Cruz's and my cuckabes out there, who, as you, I think correctly pointed out, are different animals, right?

Like Ted Cruz is a cynical lying politician. My cuckabes is like a true believer of sorts. I'm not sure which is worse. They're both, I agree. Pretty rough, and both totally humiliated themselves when they, when you interviewed them.

But there's also like the point is that the Israel lobby encompasses a lot of non-Jews. And then there's a lot of Jews, there's the Max Blumen Thalls and Norman Finkelstein's and Glenn Greenwald's, and so it's just, to just say it's like this group, now you're missing the point entirely. Well, I would say that the advocates for the war are primarily responsible for that.

Speaking of blowbacks, speaking of blowback, I mean it's hardly my job to like defend Jewish Americans, but I wanted to defend all Americans, and I definitely wanted to defend the principle that we should be judged on our own terms, not by people who look like us or were related to.

“I think that's the most important thing.”

But I mean, I do think, you off here, I'll tell you, someone says, I'm on the rise. I agree with that. Yeah, and I wish it wasn't true, but that is absolutely real, and I know that I'm blamed for it, but I think, I think you're one of the, I don't know, people will mock me for saying this, but I genuinely think it's true.

I think you are one of the leading fighters against anti-Semitism in the country. And I think I do what I can to be that as well. I think if you really want to see a decrease in Jew hatred, then I think maybe it would be good to have Jewish people saying, hey, I am totally against this. I am not for this, but also it is, and I'm not defending collectivism of any stripe, but

it is very predictable, and it is just human nature. You know, if you have, that's why it's so scary. Yes, it is. Human nature. That's exactly right.

Let's say you just have a neighborhood, okay, there's like a neighborhood, all things have been equal or whatever, and a bunch of black teenagers are black young men are going

Do you think anti-black racism is going to go up, go down, or stay the same? Crime causes racism. This is right. Is that for you? No.

Shut up.

“Yeah, what now is it fair to the black guy who didn't mug or beat up anyone that there's”

right? No, it's not fair to him. Also a predictable and frankly, at times an understandable response from someone who was a victim of getting mugged and beat up. And so if you're a black person who is like in the public eye, it might be reasonable

at that point to go, hey, guys, we got to stop mugging people and beating them up. Otherwise, they're going to hate us.

And the way I always looked at it, this always just came very natural to me like this

was so obvious. I'm Jewish, I love Jewish people, I love Jewish culture, it's who I am, it's a big part of me. And I think some of the best things about me, I got from Jewish culture, valuing intellectual curiosity and family and hard work and humor and a lot of things that really define who

I am, or very much a part of Jewish culture, fused to go along with. What does that mean? That's for sure. Also just whining about things, complaining, fetching, you know, this is all part of me.

“That's what I do for a living, it turned it into a pretty nice career.”

But that being said, it's like, I just look at it, I go, okay, so we're all the stories I've heard from my family and our history, our how we were brutally oppressed here and killed here and kicked out of here and relocated here and then we came to America. Now I have grown up in the United States of America, this is where my kids live, it's where they are going to grow up, as you say all the time, that's the only thing that matters

to me, is that my kids have the best life I can give them, literally the only thing that matters to me, everything is a very distant second from that. And I go, okay, so I'm, we're 2% of the population in America. We are by all objective standards thriving. We're doing great.

These are not an oppressed minority in America. We're doing better than the average American is doing substantially.

And I've never once, I mean, I don't know, I've had people on Twitter say things to

me or something like that, but there's never once been an obstacle put in my way because I was Jewish. I never couldn't go to this school or couldn't get this job or couldn't do anything like that. And I've had a really great life here.

“In fact, probably the most anti-Semitism I've ever dealt with is from the pro-Israel”

people who call me like a capo every day because I don't support another reckless war. So capo's with the Jewish collaborators, in the getters, yeah, right. So it was a really nasty thing to call somebody, but whatever, that's the game we're in. So my perspective is like, okay, so you're telling me the whole world treated us like crap. We've come here to America where we've been just very successful and treated very well.

My default position is to love the country for that. Like, oh, well, then we should be really grateful to this country. That should be the attitude. Not going around lecturing people about whether they've been to the museum, about our suffering from decades ago.

Like, what is that? It just seems like such a, and look, again, I'm not a lot of the critics of Israel are left wingers. I'm not coming at this from a left wing perspective. I'm a crotchity old right winger.

Like, I don't agree with you. I'm sitting here and saying, if we, if any self-respecting conservative, or self-respecting right winger, saw any other minority group complaining about their mistreatment in another continent, in another country, in another century, you'd go, hey, shut up. Get over it.

Pull yourself up by your bootstraps. That's like what, I'm saying. And then by the way, with you's like, oh, you already did. You pull yourself up by your bootstraps. So like, what are we even talking about here?

Why? And I don't think, I don't think like obsessing over past trauma.

It is always the correct answer.

And certainly not insisting that everybody else suffer or obsess over your past trauma. So I just always, it was always very natural to me that like, I'm on team America. I'm rooting for this country to succeed. The country that fought the Nazis. Yeah.

By the way. Yeah. I lost a lot of Americans fighting the Nazis. Why are you lecturing me about the Nazis? Yeah.

And to almost anybody, like anybody at Fox News, no, again, maybe I talk about like Mark Levin and Fox News and these guys like too much, like they really are irrelevant. But I guess it's just that I'm stuck in the, you know, I'm the age I am. And so to me, it's still like, hey, this is Fox News. But any one of them would completely agree with me on this if we were talking about any

other group of people. You know, if we were talking about any other group of people talking about victimhood or any of the, you know, if you, if they were, um, if there was some black guy talking about

They'd go, we fought a war to end slavery hundreds of thousands of us died.

But you know what I mean?

“Like they would, they would, right away, even here.”

So back off. Yeah. Great. Right. Yeah.

No. I couldn't agree more. And underneath all of this and the reason that I really do worry that the country's going to become like openly tribal, uh, and that leads to violence every time is that the a lot of the same people who are upset about the rise in antisemitism, which again,

I think is real. I mean, I can tell it's real.

And I don't like it either.

Are the ones who abetted all the anti-white hate for so long, which is still not being addressed. The Trump administration sued Harvard over its anti-Jewish discrimination, which is like dry. It's deranged.

What happened the face to white people in some belief and of course they anti-white hate is still totally embedded at every level of our government and in business and most famously in schools. So that's like going to attempt to hurt people on the basis of their race and no one has said anything about it.

And my point is these are either universal principles. They put it every human being in doubt with human rights by the creator or they're just preferences. It's just your tribe against mine and then I'm allowed to fight your tribe for the benefit of my tribe.

It evolves into Rwanda.

“So like I think we could diffuse a lot of this if like the head of the ADL would be like”

I'm every bit of supposed to anti-white hate as I am to anti-Jewish hate. We could all just agree that it's all wrong then we decelerate. But until then, how can I take you seriously? Yeah. And I think along with that is we just we have to stop fighting wars on behalf of Israel

and we have to have some type of separation. I mean, I'm not saying that like I'm not saying we should be enemies with Israel or that we should go to war with Israel or anything like that. But the it just the relationship, the special relationship between the U.S. and Israel is so freaking weird.

And now in this new media environment it's been exposed. I don't think you can put that toothpaste back on the tube. It is something that I think a lot of people were kind of happy to look the other way about for years. Yeah.

You came on my show. You came to me in a couple of years ago to do something on your crane and green wall too. I love it.

“And both of you like had a moment where you're like, yeah, it was probably not like”

I agree but like I don't want to you know there's I just want to pretend this isn't happening. It's not worth it. I don't want to be denounced by Hubbott or whatever. I just don't want to have the fight.

Well you let me or Greg Glenn Greenwell with your door and that's not happening. I was yes. I get it. I'm in a part of that like it's it's just not worth it. Well look even the group in my opinion the greatest living American hero Ron Paul used

even he would kind of like try to say it in a gentle way. Like he would go well. I don't want to fight them fight their own fights and we'll just kind of be over here being non interventionist because of course on one hand it's like there's a lot of things. First of all I don't know if people who are listening to this show can appreciate this

but you know this much better than I do but there was a time you know Donald Trump will kind of say this out loud you'll say that you know A pack used to totally control Congress and now they don't control them anymore they'll just say it which is so wild they give me hundreds of millions of dollars and I do whatever they want like all right dude you're just saying that out loud I thought that was like a bad guy sometic conspiracy theory that's

just something the president said in the kinesis. Yeah I've got but the thing is right in the old order before there were podcasts like this

and look if you think about like I used to always point to the example because I thought

it was so interesting about where the technology where social media was is when Bill O'Riley was the number one show yeah Fox News the number one show in cable news and at the 8 p.m. hour you were also the number one show Fox News the number one show in cable news at the 8 p.m. hour when they fired Bill O'Riley Bill O'Riley went from being like one of the biggest voices in the national conversation to being like relegated over to the sidelines who

is like that you know he still has a show somewhere but he's not like never really moving the needle at all. You got bigger than you were there and part of that was who you were who your audience was as ticked on. But a big part a big part of it when you had you had another platform that would be too. I would I would be fly fishing full-time before for the technology. So maybe in that's a maybe the technology ruins are like you could have just got it had a

happy life. They pulled your back in. But I don't know that people appreciate how much in the old order in the old days when Bill getting fired took you out of the conversation with Bill O'Riley days or whatever before that. Getting the Israel lobby on your back would ruin you. It would absolutely ruin you. And it didn't matter who you were. Absolutely sleep with the makeup artist. Yep. You could not fight with the ADL. That's right. I mean that was just it. That was

Center or A pack or you know whatever idea of the American Enterprise Institute or National

Review or the I mean the Israel lobby is like this huge powerful thing. And back then I mean it

didn't matter if you were Pat Buchanan. I'm Pat Buchanan. I've been in four like hands. I'm sure primary. I won the New Hampshire primary. I've been in four different presidential three or four different presidential administrations. A New York Times bestseller, a fixture in America. I mean he hosted Crossfire when he asked fire first. You know it doesn't matter. They could take you out. They could take wrong. Paul, they could take all. And so there was for many years almost I

feel like a leftover residue of like you just don't want this fight because man is this going to get ugly and you're going to be smeared as every vicious name in the bucket at a certain point. It was like oh well you know you kind of can talk about these things now and in fact the people who do talk about them are being rewarded by their viewers because it's refreshing that someone's talking about the thing you weren't allowed to talk about. But now that that has

been exposed and the toothpaste can't be put back in the tube it's too it's just too much. You cannot have it. I know you talk about this a lot. You look at examples like and these examples are countless. You look at Ted Cruz saying to your face as he said in other places that the reason he ran for Senate was to be Israel's number one defender. You got Tammy Bruce saying America's

the second best country to Israel. Kind of tongue in cheek still a really weird thing for an

official from the administration to say. You got Donald Trump saying that Sheldon and now Meriam Adelson give him hundreds of millions of dollars and all they want they come in every day asking for stuff on behalf of a foreign country and he gives it to him. Which they love more than a market. Sheldon was on tape. Have you seen this? Yes. He was on tape. He said his greatest

“to regret in life is that he wore the US military uniform rather than the IDF uniform. Now I'm”

sorry. That is intolerable from any just same perspective. It's nothing to do with hating Jews or even hating any other country. If people were talking like this about Norway we'd be like, "Yo, what are you doing? This isn't Norway. This is America." And like there's moved to Norway. Yeah. Like fine. Go ahead. But no you can't. And then to have people like Mike Huckabey saying that God promised Lebanon and Saudi Arabia to Netanyahu. I'm sorry but

there's just no, this is simply not how public policy maker, like it's not a policy maker, but a politician, an ambassador to this country, you can't be talking this way. This isn't saying. Like we don't let anybody just dictate their policy off. God told me to do this and then a very weird God told me something on behalf of a foreign country. So I think we're at a point where and this is kind of my rejoined or too a lot of those people who call me a new anti-Semite.

I guess I'm a self-hating Jew and you're an anti-Semite. Listen man, there is a rise of Jew hatred.

“And if you really do care about that, the only way to combat that is that we got to end this.”

You know like the same way we needed a separation of church and state so we don't fight religious wars anymore. We need a separation of the Israel lobby and the United States of America. I think it's I think it's tough. I think it's tough. As a non-Israel hate her. I don't hate it anymore. I'm not going to allow myself to hate anyone. Period. But just being as honest as I can be, you know, we're very matched like more than people understand.

Representatives, official and non-efficient of these really government throughout the US government at every single level stayed in federal. Okay, there's that inner institutions that would include

the Pentagon and CIA are biggest and most important. And then there's the question of like,

what does that mean for Israel? Like do they just allow the United States to be like, you know, you're you're just like whatever France now or Spain. We're going to treat you like, you know,

“now I but not not a sibling. I think that we get punished for that. People are afraid of Israel.”

That's the difference between Israel and Spain. Everyone loves Spain. It's great. The Spanish. We can have bases there. But missiles there. It's all great. But no one thinks if you pull back aid from Spain, they're going to hurt you. But everyone is afraid of being physically hurt by Israel. Maybe they're overstating. Maybe they're all anti-Semitic and paranoid. I don't know. I can just tell you, from moving in DC, there is a fear of them. Real fear. Yeah.

And anyway, it says as much as freaking lying. No, it's like saying there's a fear of the intelligence agencies. Like that's a fact. It's a fact. I think we're pretty out of the open about that now. Yeah. Well, that's right. That's right. And it's um, you know, so if that's the case that it's almost like

And I don't know the genesis of that fear. Like maybe again, maybe they're all just reading the protocol, the elder's eyes and maybe they're all anti-Semitic and they're overstating the influence of Jews or whatever. I mean, that's totally people do make crazy calculations. Maybe there really is a physical threat. But it's, it's not arguable that US policy makers at every level are afraid. This is not all voluntary at all. Yeah. Well, it's, it's um,

“there's something about like the, you know, I like Megan Kelly. I think she was the one who said this.”

I don't know if she coined the term, but she was the first one I heard, say it, but she, I think it was

with you, which she said the, the Israel firsters. And that was how she described it. I was like, "Oh, that's a good. That's a really good term." Yeah. For them, because you know, the thing is that, you know, John Mirchheimer and Stephen Walt, like they call it the Israel lobby. But then when you say that a lot of people just think you're talking about APAC, but they're not just talking about APAC, they're talking about this whole different, all these different organizations and individuals. That is foundation. Yes,

yeah, Washington Post. No, Washington Institute for Near East Policy and, you know, all of these organizations and then all these individuals who clearly are here to, that is the number one issue. And the thing I almost resent most about him is like, it's like just admit that. Just admit that this is what you care about more than anything else. Barry Weiss. Clearly you do, right? Like this, it's so I agree. And because then in effect you are like a foreign spy, you're kind of like an

agent for a different government. And the point is that, you know, because people will try to argue the technicalities of this. But the point is that all of the whole global war on terrorism was all of a bunch of Israel firsters who pushed the administration into that at every level. You know, this is, by the way, you'll, you'll like this just because some people don't get this, but you'll, so David Worms are who, you know, worked for Dick Cheney and was, he's the author

of the Clean Break memo. So he, so I talk about this all the time, a lot of different podcasts on

“yours on Rogans. I brought up the Clean Break and how that's what this whole real strategy is.”

It's what the Clean Break morphed into is essentially, and you could look at this David Worms or Richard Pearl and Douglas Fife wrote the Clean Break memo to Benjamin Netanyahu in 1996, was first became Prime Minister for his first term. And he had written a book, which is worth reading, called Fighting Terrorism, very easy read, by the way. It's a little book that Benjamin Netanyahu had written a year before. And essentially, the break was from Oslo, was from the piece

process. The break was from Yitzakrabin, who had now been murdered by Benjamin Netanyahu fan, after Benjamin Netanyahu, really pushed to, I mean, that's a whole other catawirms, by the way, but I know, like, if Yitzakrabin's wife, I believe, still blame Benjamin Netanyahu for many his dad's real do. Yeah, he knows there's a lobbying campaign to get the murderer out of prison. Well, they, I mean, they were, he was given anti-robine like marches, and they were holding

coffins before he died. Like they were like implying, like someone should kill this guy. Because he had said, not that he was really ever going to do this, but he had said, we got to find a two state solution. We got to give the Palestinians their own state, and we'll start working toward that. Now, the Clean Break was the neoconservative's brilliant idea. The Israel firsters here that, well, no, no, see, you got this all wrong. You think

“you need to make peace with the Palestinians, because that's the only way that you'll have”

you'll normalize relations with the broader Arab world. But no, no, no, no. We just got to go

top all the broader Arab world and overthrow all those governments, and then you never have to make

peace with the Palestinians. Okay, so it's essentially a blueprint for greater Israel, and this was their whole strategy, pre-nine, well, and for regional hegemony. Now, it's not just about consensus. Yes, it's about controlling the Middle East. That's right. That's right. Yeah. And so now, because we live in this crazy world, we live in now. David Worms are did a podcast where he responded to me. Now, from my perspective, I'm little old me,

some stand-up comedian who just talks about all this stuff. This is David Worms. This is the guy who's the author of the Clean Break memo. But to the new internet world, he has like 300 followers on Twitter. Nobody saw this. Nobody knows about it. But so David Worms and he's there to debunk my interpretation of the Clean Break memo. This is the funniest thing I've ever seen in my life. And so the host brings him on to be like, oh, this Dave Smith guy's out here saying

that all these wars were about Israel and blah, blah, blah, and this is ridiculous, right? So why don't you just tell that this is all not true? And his response was he just goes into like a monologue about how Israel is the cradle of civilization and that all of Western civilization is downstream from

Israel and that we always must protect. So anyway, in the attempt to prove me wrong, he just totally

exposes that like, yeah, this is the mentality that all of these guys have. So when if Mike Huckabee supports a war for Israel in his mind, that's not, that's not selling out your country for another country, this is God's plan, you know what I mean? So they're all so, it's like, like the fish doesn't

about? So this is what Jeff Sachs said to me, Jeff Sachs who's often attacked Jeff Sachs is really

“smart and I think very smart is a decent guy and we don't agree on everything, but like he's an”

honest guy. Like he just says, so I say to him, even watching this all these years, what do you think this is about? Why does this tiny country have so much control over our giant content-sized country? And he said, well, you know, a lot of contributions, there are threats or questions with the Kennedy assassination, like they're willing to use force and assassinations to you what they want. Because I don't think that explains it. I don't think either one of those bribery or threats

a characteristic. I don't think that actually is the whole picture. There's a spell of some kind. There's a supernatural quality of this. Good people, like I don't think Mike Huckabee is like in favor of genocide. I just don't think that. Pretty nice guy, very nice guy actually, but he believes with this fervor that suggests that he's not thinking clearly. Like there's another quality here. And do you keep talking about? Yeah, no one understands it. And I think Jeff Sachs is pretty

secular guy, by the way. I don't know, but I don't Jeff's Jeff's not a religious extremist, that I can say. For sure. Right. Okay. Yeah, but everyone recognizes, like I told you last, there's no such thing as atheist. They think they are atheists, but they don't know.

You were an atheist. No, but I wasn't. But I thought I was. But you never really are. It's not like

you can't work. Well, because I would just say, I don't really believe in any of that. I don't think that that's real. But of course, like, as I told you the story last time I was here, then when my daughter's born and I'm worried about her life, I immediately find, and it's like,

“I always knew. That was always in there on some level. So, I remember one time here in this debate,”

and I wish I could remember who it was, but it was like a theist atheist debate. And it might have been Christopher Hitchens or something like, maybe not. But it was one of those, like, does God exist debates? And so the guy arguing that God does exist said something about how there are spiritual forces in the world in blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, or there are evil spirits. He said, there are evil spirits. And then the atheist guy goes, he goes, look, like,

we all know that there is depression in this and there's this. We all know that there's dark forces in the world, but you don't need a supernatural explanation. I'm like, did you just say dark forces? What, like, dark forces? I mean, what is that? You're saying the same thing in different language, man. Like it's just like, there's actually no gap here between anyway. But so, you know, I do think there's a spiritual component to all of that for sure, because

I don't want to be the kind of person who imputes the worst motives to my opponents, okay? But I am because most people are like, why is this person doing something that's insane? Does it make sense?

It's irrational, getting paid. Like, that's always the first explanation that people come to and I

have myself thought that. But then if you know someone really well, I don't, I'm not intimate with Huckabee, but I've known him for so many, 30 years more than. It's like, I don't think Huckabee, you know, he's into money, I get it, but I don't think he's like totally motivated by greed. It's don't believe that. No, I think there's, well, look, I think I don't think he's evil,

“but he's defending evil. So what is that? I think a few things can be true at the same time, right?”

So it could, it can be that you're under a spell that there's a spiritual aspect to it. And then it can also be that there's soft incentives for you to continue being under that spell, right? And so, the, you know, the history of Jewish influence is rarely influence, I mean, look, obviously, much of this goes back to the fact that Jews dominated finance for many years. And part of this was because Christians weren't allowed to lend me, but there is now, there is a form obviously

of like abusive, userly, right? There are loan sharks out there. There are some of them already, even credit card companies that were charged, you like 30% interest or 29.9, whatever they're allowed to do on, you know, which is like a crazy interest rate and they kind of prey on desperate people. Now, they are not necessarily, like, even the loan shark or the credit card companies, they're just kind of benefiting off your desperation, because it's not like if the credit card

company wasn't there, it's not like, oh, now everything's okay. The reason they're putting necessities on the credit card to begin with is because other conditions have, you know, led them to this desperate place, totally. But the problem, so then you had for much of Christendom, right? It's completely banned to lend money at any interest, which is that, you know, I do not think is abusive to have any interest rate on your money, because that's actually

a very necessary part of an economy. There are, there are people who have a very good idea, but don't have any capital. And then there's people sitting with capital, and they go, well, look, I can't just give this to you, because if you lose it, then I just lose my money. And if you pay me back, all I've gotten is that I get my money later, rather than having it. So if you have my money, then I can't use it. Right. Right, exactly. I want to build it.

So there's a cost to me to lending you my money. However, if I go, hey, I'll lend this to you,

economic growth, because, you know, or just good businesses being created, because like, oh, yeah, the guy with a good idea, but with no capital, now, so anyway, so, so Jewish bankers ended up kind of

filling this void, and then you had very powerful Jewish groups who very, very wealthy and banking.

“And Yadiyada, a lot of things later, banking got very, very corrupt. But again, it's important to”

keep in mind. This wasn't most Jews. Most Jews were living in poverty. This was, but like, the Balfour Declaration is written to the Roth Childs, right? Like, it's not the creation of Israel, was at least part they had international finance backing them. And so that's also true in America, that much of the largest banking institutions had some Jewish influence. It's also the case that after the creation of the state of Israel, you have the Messiah, right? Or you have Israeli intelligence.

And, no, Jews are smart, not like that much smarter than everybody else, but they're a pretty smart group. And then the Messiah had an advantage over every other intelligence organization that would really be a dream for any intelligence organization, but the Messiah had a diaspora of people all spread out in the world that were Jewish, right? And so, and also, there was this wide cultural belief amongst Jews that the Holocaust is what gave birth to the state of Israel and that

the state of Israel is the guarantor of another Holocaust not happening. And so you could very, like, imagine the CIA had that. Imagine you just had little Americans in every single country, you know, little groups of Americans, maybe not every single country, but you had pockets of them in lots of different places, and they really passionately believed that the existence of the United

“States of America was the most important thing in the world. What did it advantage for them?”

Go around. Hey, find any American somewhere, you want to serve your country, you want to do that. And so, I think between finance, between the the massade, and then when the Neo conservatives, who really were not old money when they first came into it, right? Like, if you know the first generation of Neo conservatives, they were, they were having their debates at city college, not at Harvard, you know what I mean? They were, yes, yes, these were middle class guys working class,

they weren't, they weren't the Rockefeller guys or the Morgan guys, they weren't a council on foreign relations, but what they did was they went and they made their relationships with the

military industrial complex themselves. And a lot of this was, you know, the problem is that you

create this empire, you create this military industrial complex, this big government scheme, and then it's right for someone to take it over. And if you go look at like, every last one of those bill crystal think tanks, the bill crystal needs to have 16 think tanks. He doesn't have a thought in his head, but never got all of the literally ever in New York. Yeah, it was called. Like his dad was smart, for all his problems with the bill crystal was never smart. He was revered as the smart guy,

never never, never sent anything. Yeah, well, it's brain. Yeah, literally. But every last one of those think tanks is funded by Lockheed Martin or, you know, a Ray Theon or whatever. So it's like the thing is that a lot of times in government, it's a very different thing to be like swim with the current than to swim against the current. You know, there's no such thing as the Fabian libertarian. You know, you have, you might have some hardcore communists, and then you have like an

AOC who's like, I want incrementally more government. You can't get incrementally less government, because there's no, that's asking the government to have less power. Now, if you're the Neo Conservatives and you come around with like, hey, I've got a plan to fight forever wars. You know, I've got a plan to go topple all of these different countries. You're going to get some money from weapons companies. And so anyway, just saying how side from the spiritual

“fascism, I thought that's what fascism, I mean, leaving aside the anti-Semitic component”

of the Nazis, which was a big component, but the idea of fascism at the state, merges with the industrial powers. Yeah, this is what it is. And also, just swap out the Jew hatred and make it Muslim hatred or make it German hatred or Russian hatred or whatever. You know,

they always pick another thing to some of that hatred. So yeah, it's not, but that's exactly

right, fascism one. Man, it's so, it's so ironic. The same, sometimes when you when you really lose, you could, they could say on paper, and I'm sure there's some historian professor who would say, no, like capitalism and communism, one, the second world war in fascism was defeated, except what arose out of it was the fascist model for everybody, essentially, right, which is, and again, it's fascism is kind of ill-defined, but kind of ill-defined. But broadly speaking,

I mean, what are we talking about? They're FDR, and the entire progressive movement, the original progressive movement. This is what they were advocating for, right? It's like we got to get away from

powerful enough to regulate the economy and the country, and then also fight wars abroad. I mean, without majority support. Yeah, I just don't really see what, and we can cling to this idea

of democracy, which is always really an illusion. You know, it's never really true. It doesn't really,

in fact, there was a study done, I want to say this was at Princeton. From Rembrandt correctly, this was like, my 15, 20 years ago, but they did a study where they said they just concluded that we're in oligarchy, not a democracy, and they literally just went through it empirically, and we're like the American people's feeling has no impact on the way. I mean, you could say we have elections, and if you really don't like George W. Bush, you can vote for Barack Obama instead of John McCain,

but what you vote for him for, because he said he'd close Guantanamo Bay and then the wars. Guantanamo Bay is still open today, and we're on the seventh war of Wesley Clark, seven wars in five countries, none of that stopped. What did we get during Obama? We got a massive

escalation in Afghanistan. We got wars in Libya in Syria in Yemen,

drone bombing campaigns in Pakistan, continued the war in Iraq, ended the war in Iraq,

“then re-invaded Iraq. I used this leftover from the war in Syria. So I think you're describing”

the upside of all of this. Again, I haven't slept eight hours in a month. I'm so distressed. I'm not in no sense for this. I already against it. I don't see. But it's happening, and this is the end of the empire, as we knew it, hopefully it'll shrink back into something manageable that serves our interest. But who knows what'll happen? But we're definitely not going back to where we were a month ago. We know that. So what are the upsides? Well, one upside is you might wind up

at some point with presidents who want to run the United States. No president wants to run the United States, because why would you want to run the US when you can run the world? By the way, you don't know the people you manage when you run the world. They don't like come to your office and complain about your treatment of them. It's like there's no cost. It's all upside. You're just, you're the king of the world. I don't think future presidents will have that option.

And so maybe we'll get people like, you know, Lagarde airport smells. The Miami airport is like an atrocity. Maybe we should fix that. Yeah. Well, maybe this will cause like a reorientation

“back to what matters, which is our country. Yeah, quite possibly. And that's the, yeah, that's”

really the best case scenario. And you know, like, I try to, well, I look at, like models like, you know, when the Soviet Union collapsed, right, there's, I remember there was a, so Murray Rothbard talks about this in a speech once. Murray Rothbard for people who don't know it's in my opinion, like the most brilliant political theorist of the 20th century is a genius. And he was, uh, you know, of course, he ended up supporting Pat Buchan in 1982. He was an economist and has

historian and a philosopher. And so he was talking about, I guess this was like, uh, the speech he gave shortly after the collapse of the Soviet Union. And he was talking about how he had seen, like, a, a, a video of a Chinese family under a Chinese communism at the time. I guess maybe this was back. He was talking about from like, before Mao Saitong died. And he said that, uh, the, you know, the interviewer asked him questions. They were just talking about how much they love

the regime and how they said, would you rather your kids had a, um, something like would you rather your kids had a prosperous life or were loyal servants of the regime and had a very difficult life. And he says loyal servants of the regime and a very difficult life, no problem. And so Murray Rothbard said he watched this and he was like, my God. I mean, this is just so horrible. Like they've actually done it. They've created the communist man and destroyed the human soul. And then he's talking

to his buddy who's another genius who went to China a lot and was like a China expert. And he goes,

“no, that's what they say when the cameras are there. That's all that is. That doesn't believe that.”

You know what I mean? They just know this is on tape. You can't say anything else. And so that's what you say. And then they go about their day, not really caring what the regime says. And so like when the Soviet Union collapsed, um, from all, like, I've read about it. Like that was essentially the state of the Soviet Union was like no one believed the government anymore. They just all knew they were liars. That's right. They all knew this was bullshit. And they were really, actually,

we're in the bridge down there right here. That right. And so now, of course, the war Hawks of the

New York Conservatives, they always viewed us lowering the Soviets into Afghanistan and getting them

bogged down there fighting the, the Mujahideen and Afghanistan, including the foreign Arab Mujahideen and Osama Ben Laden who we were supporting. But they always viewed this as a great success because it brought down the Soviet Union. And I'm, I don't know enough about what factor led to watch. I mean, communism is not an effective economic system. And, but I'm sure the war did hurt them a lot. I know how costly wars can be and how much they can degrade our country. I know wars in Afghanistan

America went in and toppled the USSR, right? Like they collapsed on their own, partly as a result

of fighting foreign wars. And partly as a result of, you know, just government lying and terrible economic policies. But at a certain point, like the soldiers just weren't willing to fire. You know, like there were, there were attempted, um, countercoose. Yes, there were attempted coups in the past where they did fire. And they were like, no, you're not leaving the Soviet Union. But by this point in 89 or whatever it was as the people started rising up, they were like,

we're just not, we're not doing this anymore. They themselves don't believe it anymore. The government. And, and so I guess it's a long way to get to what I'm saying. But like at a certain point, we might just, we might hit a point where like the people just aren't believing this anymore.

The law enforcement, whether military or police just aren't going to crack down on the American

people in that way. And that would maybe lead to a rise of a real president who actually ran the

“country. And I don't know. I think if I'm not mistaken, I believe in, um, when there was like”

German reunification, they didn't, from what I, I don't, they didn't really punish like the people in the communist government. They kept them on their pensions. Absolutely. They weren't kind of, and I feel like we almost need something like that. I know Curtis Yorvins talked about this a bit. But something where it's like, look, man, I think there are some people at the absolute top who need to be criminally prosecuted. But like, we got to find a transition from here to there.

Like, if we're, if we're buying off bureaucrats, that would be cheaper than continuing this system. You know what I mean? Like, there's almost something where if a president could come up and say, like, hey, all you guys working in the intelligence agencies who are working to undermine president, you all have amnesty. But you got to pack up and go home right now. Like, that's it. In a weird way, we need, as you said, we need an actual president who's actually running the country.

“And who can restore peace here? I mean, I think older Americans believe their country is more united”

in cohesive than it really is. You've got an entire generation of people who weren't born here. It was parents weren't born here. He came here on the promise that can't be fulfilled, which is it, you know, of a better life economically. And I think it's going to be tough to make good on that promise, honestly. And so what do you do with that? What do you do with dashed expectations at scale? Millions of people who kind of thought they were getting something and didn't get it?

You know, a country where half of all households get a government check, half of all households. So, in the average age of the first time home, the first time home owner is forwarding. Yeah, exactly. So you've got a lot of issues here. And all of our attention is there. It's in the Persian Gulf or China or Venezuela or wherever. But once you readjust and start thinking about how does this country deal with dashed expectations and remain coherent?

How does it prevent the rise of like a truly dangerous demagogue? Yeah. Yeah. Well, also it's not like the two. It's not just that we're focused over there. And so we're not taking care of what's going on.

Here, it's the focus over there is destroying over here, right? 100%. And so always does.

Okay, so the angriest I've ever been at you was when you said that you said Lindsey Graham's views are war everywhere and Austrian economics at home. And I was like, no, no, no, you're right. Austria and I cannot know, but look, I mean, and it's not just, I don't care about just like the term, but it's, it's the, the idea is that essentially what's going on. But not the leap capitals. Yes, yes, but the opposite of Austria and economics. The government, central banking,

you know, record high government spending every single year. And so what happens essentially is, and this is what also went so furious at this administration over over this stuff. And, you know, I don't know it's you're in more of a, you're in a tougher position than I am where you were the guy in Trump's ear trying to convince him not to do this or one of the guys who got to meet with him and convince him not to do this. I think the only one. Yeah. I mean, so well, the last one is no

longer with us. So, you know, there's that. And, yeah, yeah. So, but, you know, so the thing is like me, I'm like, I'm no good at being a political strategist. Like I said, I'm just good at being a party strategist. I should have raged. It was so intense. I lost my vision. I said, yeah, I don't understand. I don't know. Well, it's worth it. There's something that you're in that angry over. But so, you know, I kind of go, I don't know political strategy stuff, but I go,

“I think you should just like, you know, try your best to stay be enabled to at least he has one”

person who's telling them to do this. But the thing is that I'm just not capable of doing that. And I'm not close to the administration. So, I'm just like, red behind the eyes furious. But one of the big things I'm furious about is that they're, they're handing this country right back over to the Democrats who really are every bit the threat that we were making them out to be over the

that we disobeyed them and put Donald Trump back in the White House. There's all to end like,

all their plan. I mean, look, we saw what they did through COVID. We saw what they did with tech censorship. And I don't want to find out what a central bank digital currency looks like and what carbon, you know, social credit scores look like. And the thing is that what look at, you watch the Democrats as they're winning now, right? Like you could look at the races when mom, mom, donny one in New York, when the new governor, uh, one in New Jersey, the new governor in Virginia,

there have been a couple races in Texas where they were like outperforming what they should be performing in Texas. Every last one of them is running on what they now call unafortability. It's like they just made up a new term because they literally none of them. I don't, I really don't think if I had one of them sitting where you're sitting right here and I was grilling them. And I could go, what is a unafortability? I don't think one of them has an answer.

Yeah, I don't even think they know the term currency debasement. I don't even think they know

“that. That's what the human rights at all. Oh, no. So here in Virginia, which was conservative”

or normal 20 minutes ago, they bring in some guy literally born in India from another country to lead the effort to confiscate people's guns and no more self-defense in the state. This just happened. I mean, it was like, not long. I mean, you're, oh, they had a Republican governor,

so it's an evenly, not much of one, but it's still, it's an evenly divided state. The second

they take power, you can't defend yourself. Right. Well, but, well, just in humility, it brings some guy from another country to lecture you about your country, your family is born. You don't have to write to have a gun? Yep. No, that's it's such an average. I mean, it's just like unbelievable. But look, but the thing is that it's going to happen. Running on unafortability is winning for them. Obviously, because that is the issue right now. They don't understand that

unafortability means price inflation. It means that you've debased your currency, right? And so this is, so the thing is now we're handing them this thing to run on. Well, Donald Trump is talking about, you know, working with the eye atola about the straight of her moose or whatever, your local Democrat is going, hey, why are your grocery prices so high? Why is that? By the way, all the price inflation from the Joe, but you know the way this stuff works, it's cumulative.

So Donald Trump, we live in an inflationary economy because of the central bank. It doesn't matter what their inflation means in inflation. Yeah, so the money supply. Right. Because they, they will, no matter what, print enough money so that we don't fall into a deflationary economy. That's they're going to do that and they, they're just, they're not even printing the money. They're just typing into a computer these days. So they can get ahead of it. And so Donald Trump might

brag that the CPI is only at 2% and not at 9% where Joe Biden was. But for every regular American, we live through all of those prices increases and now it's just 2% more expensive than it was under Joe Biden. So you haven't been helped any. The prices aren't going down. They're just going

“up at a slower rate. It's like, I think it was Michael Malis, who had the phrase where he goes,”

when they go, they go, we cut inflation in half and they go, it's literally on the level of, if you knew somebody who gained a hundred pounds in a year and then the next year they gained 50 pounds and they go, I'm getting thinner. And you're like, no, you are not. You are getting fatter, sir. Like the goal is not to slow down how much weight you put on. But it really does just come down to this, right? Is that we have a government that we cannot afford. We cannot even

come close to a foreign size of government we have because it's the biggest government in human history. It's the biggest organization in human history as you often point out. And that organization is parasitical in nature. It gets its money from taking that money, from expropriating that money, from the American people. But you can't tax him enough and you can't borrow enough. And so we have to print the money. And so we have to print the money because we can't afford the size of government.

And so then that makes the price of everything go up and up and up. And so essentially the point I'm getting at. And this is why I just point out that to say it's all Australian economics is gets it because the, what guys like Mimdani can come in and do now is say, hey look, everything's so unaffordable. And you know what the answer to that is? A government program, more government, more government, more free buses and government supermarkets is. And on the surface that kind of

probably sounds reasonable to some people. But the thing is that we're here because government

“is too big. That's what's got us to this place. And so like I think it's important to just”

like point that out to people that it's like, no, this is the thing is that we cannot afford,

here's the real hard honest truth that Americans don't want to hear, or at least maybe the first

part they want to hear. People are okay with me saying this. We can't afford the world empire. We can't afford it. We don't have the money for it. We're pretending we have it. We're just devaluing our currency. And therefore, by the way, destroying young people's lives. Now there's days I know a bunch of young people like in my family and friends who are literally like good people

a family? No, dude. I'm like the average house around me is going for 800 grand to make 70 grand a year.

“That math simply does not work. And this is not, I'm not saying the bum on welfare. I'm saying”

like the young man who's getting up and going to work every day. And we can't. So we cannot afford this empire. The other thing is, which no one including Republicans ever wants to say, we also can't afford the entitlement programs. And they're insane. They're the most indefensible thing in the world. I mean, leaving aside Medicaid for a second, but Social Security and Medicare are from a different time from a different country that are totally indefensible. They were indefensible then,

but they're really indefensible now. Yeah, you're telling me you have a wealth transfer program from a poorer group to a richer group. I'm sorry, the seniors aren't the ones who need the help right now. It's the young people. And I think that I would love if some politician, I think Ron Paul's the only one I've ever seen. I'm sure Massey would agree with me if I said this to him. But I wish somebody would just run on that. Unlike, yeah, they used to say that's

the third rail of politics. Like why? Because boomers just need to get everything. Everything has to be rigged in favor of them. I mean, I'm sorry, the thing is you kind of have these like abstract political debates sometimes, which I'm a nerd for this stuff. I really like them. But so you'd have like a, you know, you'd have like a Keynesian debate, a Chicago school guy, or you'd have a socialist debate, a free market guy. And like the free market guy would argue

that, you know, there's a better allocation of resources in a free market. And then the socialist would argue that some people fall behind. And so you need redistributive policies to take from

“the wealthy to give to the people of fallen behind. But who argues that you should have a redistributive”

policy from the poor to the rich? That's the whole United States of America that's all of central banking, that's all of government spending. All it is is they take money from the working people and they give it to millionaires. Go look at any of the suburbs of Washington, D.C., none of them

make anything. They're all in three million dollar houses. Because government spending is north

of seven trillion dollars. Of course. Well, that, unfortunately, it's getting to the point where that kind of is our economy. Yeah. Yeah. So you really need to reorder things on the, beginning with the foundations. Yeah. Well, but two good things are happening. One, the empire is by necessity shrinking. And so that's a cost savings. And that's a reorientation back where the attention belongs, which is here. And two, you have the baby boom going away,

which is 1946, 1964. So people born in the middle of 1956 or 1970. Yeah. So they'll be 80 and 10 years.

“So you, that generation, clearly I think everyone agrees, not everyone in it, but as a generation”

destroyed the country. Oh, yeah. Just the words. And that's not the country with some notable exceptions. Of course. My mom included. She's cool, but the rest of them. Oh, many, many

notable. So I don't know million baby boomers that I've not a million, but I've met baby

boomers I like. Well, I just couldn't, I mean, the thing about it. Not that many. There's Jeff Diced is a really, really brilliant guy. He was the, he ran the Mises Institute for years. He's over at monetary medals now. But he's a really, really brilliant guy. He had this speech one time where he was talking about the boomers and like the evolution of the generation and what they believed at the time. And it's, so it is just the most self-absorbed, selfish generation ever.

I mean, they literally, their slogan was don't trust anyone over 30 until they turned 30. Exactly. And then he does, like Jeff Diced like went through the whole thing. I don't remember all of it, but then by the end, they were the ones pushing COVID. Like, they started out as the don't trust anyone over 30. And then they said, shut down the schools so that I don't get sick. Like, take from my grandchildren's generation so that I'm protected. And yeah, I mean, he's dumbest too.

I mean, the thing about their narcissism is the core sin. That's their main problem is they're all about themselves. The thing you notice about people are all about themselves is how unwise and badly

informed they are because they don't pay attention to other people. Therefore, they never learned.

Therefore, and I've noticed this in size was the child because these were my teachers, the baby boom. They'll fall for anything. They're the most easily manipulated people who've ever lived in this country, they are the most dominated by their herd instinct. All the kids are wearing masks, all the kids are taking the shots, all the kids are going into finds. Whatever all the other people are doing, they will do, they're the Mickey Mouse Club

generation. Yeah. They are truly without creative impulse. They're just not impressive. In addition to being super annoying, one of the least attractive generations. Like, there's a lot about them that we can, the least attached to their own children. Yeah. You've got two houses, but your kids have no house. How does that work? Oh, yeah. The generation of no fault divorce, the generation of I gotta be me. I gotta pursue my own happiness when you got little kids. But you is not that

I've noticed. It's the most noticed. It's like one of the most profound ironies in life,

like this kind of counterintuitive thing, where like if you're only concerned with yourself, yourself is going to suffer for that. You know, it's really true. You watch this all the time, with people who really have like, you know, like really bet depression and are just like miserable and they're constantly talking about their mood today. It's like, hey, step number one, something about your mood. Your mood is not that important. Here's step number one,

start thinking about other people. How about this? Try doing something productive for someone else other than yourself and don't think about your mood once while you're doing it. And you know, I'll tell you, I've, you know, I've been on this earth for about 43 years and I haven't learned

that much. You've got a few things. There's, I've never been anywhere near as happy since I got married

“and had kids. Like once my life became about a family and not just about me, you know what I mean?”

And I think I was in this generation that we expect that. No, man. I mean, I don't know. I always thought before I met my wife, it was always to me like everything in my mind was like professional success. Right. You know, like that was what I wanted to be a successful comedian and I wanted to, I wanted to talk about politics and all this stuff and I wanted, I always wanted that. And you know, it's weird now because I've kind of like, like, I've kind of gotten everything.

I really wanted it in all those years and it's nice. Don't get me wrong. I really love my career, I love what I do. I love this. I love doing shows with you and it's great. But like,

it's so unimportant compared to family. I mean, you know, like it's just not even,

it's not, the older you get, the more you realize it's like that's all that really matters. All that really matters are your, your wife, your children, the close friends that you have around you, like the good people in your life, connection to other people, connection to God, that's all that really matters in life. All the rest of it is kind of just part of the journey and part of the thing. But, um, hey, do your best. No, I'm knowing you're probably not going to move the ball that far.

“Yeah. Well, you know, I read this. Um, there was this really great book by, um, I believe the author's name.”

I, you know, I don't know if I've ever actually heard it pronounced. I've just read it, but it's like a gene twangé or twangé or something. Yeah. There's like, now I don't know about her. I think she was on Bill Marsha recently and she said one thing that I thought was really stupid and I turned it off. Because I was like, I really liked her book. I just don't want to, I don't want to know. You know, you feel like, you're like, I don't want to, but she wrote this book called, um, I think it was called The Me Generation,

Generation Me, something like that. There's really great. I thought it was really, really good book. And it was kind of about my generation who was raised by the boomers. And, you know, the way I was raised. And again, I'm not not, I'd a really great mother. It's just really great. And then still, a lot of really good things in me. This was bigger than her. This was just the culture. But we were raised and I didn't think it was so unique at the time, but I was really kind of a

child of the, um, you know, a child of the unipolar moment. I guess you could say, uh, and then, then a teenager, young adult Berlin wall. Yeah. Well, I mean, I was, I remember watching it, watching the Berlin wall come down. I was at my grandfather's house and my grandfather, as I told you focused from Germany. And I just, my only memory of it was I was a little, I was born in 83. So I guess I would have been six years old when this happens. I'm a little kid. And I just remember,

I was being a little kid and probably being loud in the living room or something or walking front of the TV. And I remember he snapped at me. I went, and I, and I, I just remember being like, how old was your grandfather when he left Germany? Uh, he would have been, I want to say, like, 15, maybe. Oh, wow. So old enough to remember. Yeah. Oh, yeah, old enough to remember some really vicious things. He got out in 1938. Um, but so anyway, uh, he, so, I just remember like, oh, this is

really serious to grandpa what's happening. And it was the Berlin wall being coming down. Yeah, it was a big deal to have. I'm not sure he liked it that much. I think he was a little, uh, concerned about Germany. But even if it's anywhere, you know, as you can imagine, um, but, uh, turned out to be a good thing. Uh, but anyway, so, you know, I was, I kind of grew up in that time in the 80s and the 90s. And there was, we didn't have things that I think almost every other generation had like we weren't

raised with like God, shivalry, nation, you know, there wasn't this, it was like, you go to school and, you know, get your homework done. So no one's mad at you. And then you can go play basketball outside or there's a new video game at it was let's let's hang out with our friends and have fun. There wasn't like this, this, there's like purpose, you know, like put into your life, which most people have in most of human history. Even if it's just a good culture. Yeah, culture,

“your religious views, you know, like, you know, it's important things. And, uh, I think there were a lot of”

people in, in my generation were like that that it was almost like, again, like we say before,

And, and in a way, like, I know I've heard you say this before, but it's so true. It's like, the, the desire to worship is so hard-wired into the DNA of the human soul that you just can't,

“you can say you're an atheist if you want to, but then like, I'll find out what your religion is”

pretty quickly. And oftentimes it just becomes yourself. You know, when you don't have other things, it becomes like, well, let me have fun. Let me go get this, but that is, like I said, 43 years, I haven't learned much in life. One thing I have learned for certain is that if your highest goal in life is your own pleasure, you will be a miserable, miserable human being. Yeah, well, I've learned that. I've learned that too. So, as you look around at 43,

among people you know who are your age group in the same world you grew up in, how many are thinking about the existence of God right now? I think a lot more than ever were, as you ever know, the religious people growing up. Yeah, I mean, I knew, I knew some, um, but it was very few and far between, like that we're really like religious or talked about it or what, you know, like I knew, you know, even like, I went to like Hebrew school, but I went for like a year to like my mom wanted

me to be bar myths, but it wasn't really like a deep religious conviction. It was more like,

this is what our people always do. You know, and like I had a respect to your father and your

father's father and your father's father's father, you know, like, I could kind of understand that. And so I went, um, but it was like a reformed, you know, a temple where I went there and I remember even the rabbi, like, you know, like some of the kids would be like, "Well, do you believe in God?" He's like, "Yeah, you know, everything that's good is God and everything." You know, like it was just totally like Jewish, you know, like essentially atheism and a lot of friends, so many people like that.

Yeah, so it was just, you know, there was, there was just a lot of that and I, I don't, you know, I certainly think that one of the things I really focus on as a father, I have little kids, so but I will focus on this more over the years, is like instilling the idea of purpose, instilling the idea of like God and not just God, but like what that represents, that like,

“"Hey, you're, you know, you're here. We're all here in this life together. This life is a little”

bit of a mystery. We don't know everything about that." Exactly, right. But we do know that, like,

we, other people exist too as we exist and human beings can be, we have this amazing capacity to be

demonic or angelic. You know, like you can really, you, one person, you know, there's little moments in life where, you know, whatever it is, like you're at the post office and it's 501 and you had to get this letter out today or you're getting fired and you're like, "You know, my life is ruined. If you're talking to some person on the other end, can you please just take this one pack?" You know, I'm just coming up in the scenario. And that person could go, "All right, come here,

give me the package." And you're like, "Yo, you just saved my life." You know what I mean? Like, you have no idea what you just did for me. And like, you can do that for other people. You could try your best to throughout your day and your career and your life. Be like, "Yo, let me help this guy and be that person." Or, you know, you can be what Benjamin Netanyahu is to the Palestinians, you know, like, just a monster, like, guy who just like ruined their family's life. And so,

if we're kind of given this world and we don't have all of the answers to it, but we kind of know that we have like, inability to be either one of those things, hey, really focus on being the angel for people, really focus on trying to help others. I think that makes you a much happier person, the more you focus on that. And do you find that people new in the secular world growing up or reaching some more conclusions? Yeah, I think I know several people like that. And I do, I think that um, you know,

he had an amazing, meteoric rise in a really tragic fall. But I think this is why Jordan Peterson was such a phenomenon for years. That it was like, you know, going around and telling young men

“that you should search out purpose and search out God. And what if it's amazing, how, how, like,”

powerful that is. I love that. Yeah, me too. He takes a lot of abuse and, um, you know, he's against me

or whatever, I don't know, I could care less. But I will always appreciate that about Jordan Peterson.

Yeah, me too, that he did that. Yeah, you know, I like, um, I, in a way, he was a guy who I always really wanted to talk to and never did. He was, you know, obviously, I mean, joining the daily while you're and going on that side, or it's just a really, really tragic mistake. And I think he threw away all of the credibility that he had with the younger generation, when that's really could have used his voice, you know, he was never much as a political actor. He was always something

out. No, he's a Canadian psychologist. Yeah, like this, this wasn't, you know, said that part out. He missed the mark on a lot of his political points. But I mean, you know, when you're on record talent Benjamin Netanyahu to give them how, uh, that's, that's really hard to come back from. But he came on, you know, he came on Joe Rogan show the episode after I debated Douglas Murray. I believe

oh, man, I think he's going to, like, say, you know what I mean? Like, I think he's going to say something, you know, nasty about me because he's Ben Shapiro and Netanyahu's guy now and they just had this big debate. And he didn't, um, he kind of said, oh, I thought he didn't name me. He mentioned Douglas and Joe and he said, I thought I thought everyone involved did a good job. Good friend. So I was like, okay, that kind of, that was nice to me in a way that I was like, oh,

he had, you know, from someone at the daily wire, that's about as good as I can expect.

He was a pretty charitable guy. I mean, that, you know, I thought he had flaws, but I was never,

I, you know, I always said charitable and still do you have charitable feelings toward him, Douglas Murray, however. That's a different one. What happened to Doug, is he still,

“is still living in this country? No, he's doing great. I think he got a gig, uh, writing speeches”

for the Israeli government. Oh, we can answer her. Yeah, he did. Can I just, I don't know if I, have I said this on your show before? I don't think so. Um, because I think last time we spoke was right after that debate or less time we spoke on the podcast, not spoke in life. But last time we, we were doing the show was right after that debate, but before this came out and it was a Ryan Grim and the guys over at drop site who who published this. But so if you remember the

famous, you've never been, uh, argument. Well, I got, I'm sorry. I should not call that an argument.

There's, it's not an argument. Did it arise to go level? But what he said, what he was trying to say, which was really, you know, kind of silly, but he was like, uh, you know, he goes, well, he said, I have the journalistic courtesy of visiting a place before I talk about that place. This was, he was lecturing me about journalistic ethics. Now, I'm not a journalist, Tucker. I understand up comedian. You, you've been a journalist for many years, so maybe you can fill me in on this. I'm,

I'm not an expert in journalistic ethics. What are the ethics of covering a country and not disclosing that you work for the government? Is that up there? I would have to consult, like, a professor of ethics, like Sam Bakeman Friedz parents. Yes. No more. We have a whole infrastructure designed to answer complex questions like that. Dave, but I have the courtesy of, um, of not advocating for wars

“that I'm not willing to fight in myself. That's my professional, uh, courtesy. I think that is much”

better standard. Well, who spends, I mean, what type of person and look? But he never went away. Didn't,

I mean, Douglas Murray was like, uh, I took him seriously. By the way, I knew him well. And, um, I thought he had, you know, other things about him that I felt sorry for him, uh, because of them, but in general, it's smart. And I never had a problem with him at all. Had a couple of fun dinners with him. That debate, which you were proclaimed the loser of by the people. I think that just destroyed his life. Yeah. Well, again, it was like no one except the people who already

had made up their mind that Israel is the greatest country ever. None of no one except them thought that he won the debate. A few of them seem to celebrate that. The comment section under the video was just torching like every regular person went, oh, he just destroyed himself. And then I will say, a lot of people, including some, uh, prominent people who you listen or know, including Charlie Kirk, by the way. Um, texted me after that debate, and we're like, yeah, dude,

he just destroyed his credibility or like, you're like, that was crazy that he came at you like that. I had people, um, you know, like this is whatever I won't name all of them because I don't want to give up private information. Maybe I shouldn't have. I, I mentioned that about Charlie Kirk because Candace months back had had called on me to like, so to release whatever private communications I have, that might be relevant. And I thought one of the things was relevant was that

he said after the debate that he largely agreed with me after the Douglas Murray Day, which was did. I talked to him on his topic. Yeah, I'm, yeah. So I did think that was relevant

“until like where his mind state was, but other people, like, I think a lot of people kind of”

expected him to be like the, like, the, like, okay, Dave, you've been blowing through these debates, but this is the best guy on the other side. So he's going to come really give it a chance. So there's no chance. Well, that's, you know, someone from Brooklyn was going to be. Well, that's, yeah, I guess that's the first, the first, uh, advantage that he had. But, you know, there's a weird thing where, again, kind of back to what I was saying before, you see this

thing where, so after that debate happens, I have this huge, like, groundswell of support from people. Then Donald Trump tweets out. You got to go get Douglas Murray's new book, like two days after the debate or something like that. And it just, I thought there was an interesting parallel between that. And, um, when Donald Trump just tweeted the other day about how great, not the one to watch the show, but he treated last week about how wonderful Mark Levin is and how

everyone arguing with him is awful or something like that. And if you look on Twitter, I'd say in Twitter is everything, but it's one little, you know, glimpse into things. I mean, Mark Levin gets ratioed by random people. Like, not even like, like, you or

an idiot and way more people like his tweet than like, like, Mark Levin's tweet. He's out there.

“He's feuding it with Megan Kelly. And he's calling you at every name in the book. And then”

the entire audience is just going with us. And then Trump comes out and says, we're all. So I saw that when when Trump tweeted that about, you read, you know, Douglas Murray's dumb books. Um, and I kind of willfully ignored it because I was so focused, well, because I like Trump, but also because I was so focused on the Iran thing and just have to prevent a war in Iran. That's more important. Well, I don't know though. I mean, that that was foreshadowing that actually

there was a lot of, you know, why would the President of the United States be promoting Douglas Murray, who, you know, he's not even American? And he's, like, totally discredited. Why would the President be promoting him? Well, I mean, do in Mark Levin as much worse. I mean, look, Douglas Murray, I do think he was ridiculous and he kind of made an ass out of himself in that debate. But Mark Levin has gone to a level of retardation that I've never seen at a, you know,

like, I listen, I was never to, I was somewhat impressed by the first generation of neocons,

“you know, I think I worked for them. Yeah. Well, I, I, I know that I was one, but I think, well,”

sorry. No, I mean, like, I mean, like Leo Strauss and Irving Crestoll and those guys, right? And, and, but then I always thought, like, I always kind of went, you know, if you remember the Fox News, now, he wasn't really on your show a lot, but if you remember the reverence people used to have for Charles Crout, Howard? Yeah. Like, they would all talk about it. Like, two is face. They'd be like, a genius is he or not. And then I'd be like, I've never heard him say anything interesting ever.

I just don't agree. I don't know what that, but all of those guys, so I was always like, one thing I'll say about Charles, who I knew really well. It's a very nice man. And he was a nice man because he had had to reckon with, you know, being paralyzed on the chest down from medical school. And so he just had a perspective on life. I spent hours talking to him and I knew his wife and I really liked him as a man, but his views were, you know, impossible to

defend if you cared about the United States. Yeah, that right. But anyway, I guess with all of them,

I was never particularly intellectually impressed with any of them. If you want to see, by the way,

if you want to see, if you've never watched, man, Scott Horton debating Bill Crystal at the seventh form here, it was, you really exposed just how much Bill Crystal has nothing. No knowledge, no argument, nothing. He literally, I've never seen it happen for he threw in the towel in the debate, essentially. He literally, at one point, Scott makes some argument. There was like a back-and-forth section and Scott makes some argument and he goes, well, we just have fundamentally different

“world views. And you're like, yeah, that's why you're debating. But you have to make an argument.”

And then he will never explain what his world view is. And then it is in his closing, there were still like three minutes on the clock. And he just stopped. Anyway, I say all of this to say.

I've seen some dumb arguments from Neocons over the years. I have never seen anyone go full-blown

Mark Leven. The way he goes. Like it is, he's literally just a ranting old man yelling insults unattached to any argument at all. Like his whole show is just like, yeah, that's a little punk. Once I come and talk to me, a little fascist, like, it's like, what is this, dude? And so there is something about Donald Trump promoting that. That's like several levels worse than promoting Douglas. No, but it's, so then you have to ask like, well, what actually is it? It's not designed

to win people over. It's designed to increase hatred anti-Semitism, by the way. It's absolutely. I mean, if you were, if you were, you know, whoever Mark thinks he's working for these really, like, yes, you would look at the students, say, this is not helping us. Don't do this. Don't, you know, get some articulate, decent, hot woman on there to make the case. Or whatever, you do a marketing thing. This is anti-marketing. This is designed to repel people. So why would you

want that? I don't know the answer, but it's clearly true. Second, his relationship with the president is bizarre. You think Trump likes that? There was a, there was a moment at some anti-stop anti-Semitism event of some kind or Hanukkah celebratory or some Jewish-themed White House event where Trump is there with Mark Le Ben. And Levine comes over and puts his arm around the president's neck and pulls him in now. I know Trump well. I mean, I wouldn't like that. And I'm not even

the president or a germaphob. Yeah. What is that? And under normal circumstances, Trump would never put up with that. You're just, you're, you're doing them. Oh, I'm not dominant. Move over the president. And over Donald Trump. Are you not just the president, but Donald Trump, the most dominant alfamail guy. That's a dominant. That's a other people. Exactly. Yeah. But even Trump, who is very

someone and give him a headlock like that. You know, I help you in while he shakes your hands, or something. What did he do to, at one of the G7 meetings or whatever, where he cuts in front of some otherworldly? But like, there are, by the way, this is another thing that I was hoping to rule. Yes, dude. But I'm oblivious to this thing, but this is, as you said, powerful men are like this, where there's like alfamoo. Yeah. It's like taking your thing and just make, you know,

like whatever, like, if you have a little thing of peanuts here that you're eating and I just reach it and tail, you know what I mean? Like, but to do that to Donald Trump, I understand. I'm not trying to make too much of a little thing. Oh, it's not a little bit. But that was, there was something symbolic and then proclaims him the first Jewish president. You've got a very strange

that Trump, he never said this to me, but just knowing him, you've got to think he's filled with

rage and someone doing that to him. Well, he puts up with it anyway, so and but why would you do that

“to him? So if you want to exert influence over someone who's powerful, like there's a way to do it,”

but the last way to do it is to be like, I'm in charge here. Just so you know, I'm more powerful than president, because that's what Levin is saying and Trump is putting up with it, this is either, it's a former state of massacism, but it also reveals like the true architecture of power in a way that's like, what? Yeah. Well, I think what is that? Well, here, I'll say this, and I'm just to preface this, I'm not saying anything other than what I'm saying. I'm not

applying something that I don't know anymore than this and maybe you know more than I do, but I will say that you know, people used to say when Donald Trump was first rising to political, it's political career in 2016 when it was running when it was first president,

I remember liberals used to always say that he's dog whistling big a tray.

Yeah. And you know, we always thought this was so always like a dog whistle. It's like a thing where

“you kind of, first of all, it's kind of weird, because you're like, well, then wouldn't you not”

hear it? If it's a dog whistle, because wouldn't only the biggest fear, it isn't that the idea. Also, that seems like a very convenient way of saying, even though there's nothing I can actually point to, that you said, he's always raised. But what I always thought was that what Donald Trump did was he would very often stoke or give a wink in a nod to conspiracies. Oh, that he was, look, he went out there about Obama's birth certificate. He obviously called out the whole

Russia gate thing, which was a legit conspiracy to unseat the setting president. It was a cute thing. The cute thing. He'd, he'd float at the, obviously, the, the election being stolen. But, but all the witch on end, of course, now with abstine when it's not really like, well, it is a conspiracy, but it's a legitimate one. But he's saying, oh, it's, you know, there's a democratic hoax. He is very quick to any time it will help him look good to be like,

it's a conspiracy against me. Never once with Butler, never once. And it's kind of crazy, man.

Like, we don't, we have, like, no infirmity. They haven't even, like, attempted to give us a national story that puts a little bow on top of, like, who this guy was or what happened, how there was such a security failure that could allow a sniper, 130 yards away to get a clean shot at the president, a former president and current candidates had, um, what the, just kind of no internet history can't get into his phones. He wanted to kill anyone he could.

That's all nothing to see here. And it's just a little bizarre to me that you would think, like, all other things making sense. You would just think you would hear Donald Trump going, they tried to kill me. They tried to do this. They tried to, but, I mean, days afterward, he just thanked the secret service for what a great job they did. And I don't know what any of that means. So I know a lot about it. And I'll just say this, which we said publicly,

is I, you know, I got a call from somebody who said, I've got a lot of material from the gunmen. I'm not disputing. He was the gunmen. By the way, seems like the gunmen,

“question is like, was he working in concert with anyone else, whether other people involved?”

Right. It's the same with Charlie Curtis. It's not a question of, you know, I don't know anything, but the question is never just did the guy pull the trigger. Of course. Yeah. We've ever just proved that with the video tape that we don't have from the Charlie Curtis destination for some reason. But whatever, the point is that's only one part of the story. The question was, were there other people involved in the case of Butler? I got this

corpus of information from my guy. I almost off the street. We showed that it was real. I was skeptical of this stuff. Very skeptical, but it turns out this was actually from Thomas Chris's YouTube account. And the FBI claimed that this didn't exist. Well, of course, they knew it existed. So then the question was, why are they since the man is dead in this sole shooter crime? There's a lone gunmen and a lone gunmen's gone. Why would we hold back anything? Any evidence

where he trained to shoot a pretty good shot over 100 yards to the 223. I should have to do it. That's like, everyone's all these seals like, oh, that's nothing. But like for a nonsense. That's great. It's a decent shot. So there's video tape from the shooting range to the

train alone. Who was with him? You've never been released. And the investigation was shut down.

“Shut down. So what does that mean? I don't know. But I mean, like, what is going on?”

Yeah. And I got to say, um, why can't we know? Well, hearing the heroic former director of of counterterrorism come on. You're showing kind of say the same thing. It does just have a lot more weight to it when the guy was literally the director of counterterrorism. And going like, hey, what's going on here? We have not gotten answers. And he tied those facts. Those are facts. He stated facts. By the way, when he, now we've just heard the FBI is not actually investigating him. That was all fake.

He retained his security clearance until the morning he left. So if he was under investigation for treason or something, he wouldn't have held his clearance in the right. That's the highest level intelligence, which he retained until the day, the moment he resigned. So, okay, that was all lie. But he said point blank, one of the most informed people in the United States with clearance is higher, I think, even than Mark Levin's. There's a connection between Trump's decision to go to

“war in Iran, and these not fully explained acts of violence. He said that. So, okay, before we”

denounce him as crazy, which maybe he is, I don't know, doesn't seem to be, but I hold up at any possibility. What is he talking about? And there has not only been zero interest from like the people in charge of joining up interest, like the internet, the influencers. Right. There's been calculated discouragement in attacks on anyone who persistent asking the question. Yeah, well, like, and I haven't gotten involved because I know everybody and it's, it's so emotional

to me. But at a certain point, I'm gonna, you know, whatever, I feel like I've got a pretty close advantage on all this stuff. And I'm getting a little sick of it because every American has a right to justice, not just for himself, but for any other American citizen. Our whole system rests on the idea that there will be justice affected by the U.S. government. And we have a right to know, you have no right to keep that for me. And what grounds you're keeping that for me? You can't

brow beat me into it by screaming Candace Owens again and again. Yeah, that's right. And look, like, sick of me. I've tried. It's outrageous. Absolutely. And listen, I'll say just personally, like, I, you know, and I knew Charlie and not super well. We weren't like close friends, but like I done a show a few times and we texted a few times that he had me at that last let me do the debate there and we hung out for a little bit while we were there. And, you know, it's, uh, I wasn't as close

with him as, as you were, but it's even just like being friends with someone like that. It's,

it's, first of it's like, it's very jarring, uh, to see that happen. And then he's got a wife and little

kids, really tragic horrible situation. And on, like, my incentives on all of this is like, I just don't want to believe that this was anything more than like one crazy guy with the trans furry boyfriend or whatever, like that. That actually is much more comforting to me than it's some conspiracy. Half a Twitter seemed to think I was the one who got him killed or something like that or me and you and Megan. I'm very much, so vehemently want to believe this. Yes, right. So like,

we don't want that. I will say, so, and, and I have not done like deep dives and, and watched all of Candices shows on this or something. But like, there's little pieces of information just like, it's been confirmed by a few different people that he was texting them. They're gonna kill me.

“Like, hey, man, that's got to be like totally exhausted and investigated. I mean, what is this here?”

This is a pretty big deal. You really got to get to the bottom of stuff like that. And look, as you're sitting here and, you know, it's almost like, sometimes people will call, you know, they'll call you out for being a conspiracy theorist or something or, you know, they say that just asking questions. No, it's worse than being a conspiracy theorist is having no curiosity about questions that have not been answered. Well, also, there's just not a conspiracy theorist and I believe

in curiosity and skepticism, and I've encouraged that in a lot of people and some have been very resistant to be curious for skeptical. And there are two sides to this. There's not simply the people who are coming up with conspiracy theories, some of them obviously fantastical and wrong. I would think there's also the government side, which is telling you shut up, we have this solved. And I think we should apply the same skepticism to their claims as well. There's no reason

that the FBI should get an automatic on the basis of what? Well, also, they're track record

of always telling the truth to people. Like, what are you even talking about? Well, that's,

and how dare you threaten me and call me names? I mean, I'm not getting paid for this. I, you know, I've stayed out of, I'm just getting too mad. Well, watching this. So even before the abstine files got released back when the pedestrian emails were released and the original

look, they're clearly talking in code. Now, what is the code? I mean, people are speculating that

“it was about children. Now, I have absolutely no reason to believe that, but they're not planning”

pizza parties, you know what I mean? Like, they're speaking in code that's-- Well, it's abstinence, urologist who's just prescribed him erectile dysfunction drugs says, take the pills and then meet me for pizza and grape soda. I, that's in the abstine files. Maybe they're, maybe there's nothing to a sex. Maybe they're actually, you get wicked hungry after you take a boner pill. I don't know. But the fact that nobody cares to find out or even

interview the urologist just to bring them to say, hey, what is this? That's right. And I felt the same way that's grape soda. What do you even talk it? There's no white person America drinks grape soda

stop. I've had grapes, I've maybe had grapes soda when I was a child. I'm not against it. I'm just like

talk to the urologist. No, well, right. Exactly. So the thing about it is, like, even with the original pizza gate thing, the position of, like, the corporate media was to sit there and go, you're in the idiot if you think this code is it, oh, you're a conspiracy theorist if you they're, instead of putting a microphone in front of John Podesta and going, hey, you're clearly speaking in code here, people are assuming that that code is for raping children. So clear this up

because it can't be any worse than what people are speculating. So what is it, sir, and no one ever even thinks to do that in this, and all the hostility is aimed at people who are asking the questions. And, and that, that's a tell right there. Yes. There's people, here you have gun shots ringing out in my country, people getting killed or an attempted murder, a couple of attempted murders. There will be more, unfortunately. And anyone who's interested in, like, finding out or

doesn't automatically trust the government, which we're supposed to be skeptical of that person is the villain? Yeah, that's right. And, and, you know, in a similar thing, there, I don't know, maybe I'm going to struggle to, like, word this the right way, but there's certain things that in a vacuum might be true, but aren't true in all circumstances. So in, in other words, like, if you typically speaking, you'd go, hey, before you want to start, you know, believing something,

you got to see strong evidence for it or something like that, or you can't just start theorizing and speculating about things without, like, some indication or something pointing you in that direction. But then, like, if me and you both just wake up together and we, we're blacked out for the last 10 hours and we're chained up in a prison somewhere or something like that. And you start going, like,

“we got to start speculating about how the hell we got here because this is so crazy. You know what I mean?”

And then I'd be like, hey, my neighbor said something this morning to me about how, like, I bet it's going to be a rough day. You know, and I'm like, we got to think maybe my neighbor had something to do with it. So now, then some, some skeptic could come along and go, your neighbor saying it's going to be a bad day. It doesn't act, isn't actually evidence. And you're like, okay, but we're here, like we got, and so in a sense, there's like, okay, yes, you could, you can be

skeptical and it's good to be skeptical of some of these claims. But at the same time,

we're sitting here watching. It's so crazy to watch, right? But the never Trumpers

are now the biggest hardcore Trump supporters as they're destroying the coalition that they were afraid of. It's just right. And so you've watched this happen. And that does lead you to go, how exactly did they pull this off? How is it that people, like, you know, so I, you know, look, I'm a little bit more hotheaded than you at times. And maybe this is because, you know, I'm a little, I'm a decade younger than you and I still drink big glasses of whiskey and I

still, and I'm just furious about a lot of things. And I'm, um, uh, maybe I should, you know, let's some of that go. But, uh, you know, like I'm still furious at Ben Shapiro. And the only reason I hate Ben Shapiro's guts is because he called Ron Paul a Jewator back in the day when it was totally just ridiculous.

“You read some of these tweets recently. I think Ron Paul is up there talking about how it's,”

it's not wise to fight multiple wars. This is what brings down nation and Ben Shapiro goes, but you just want to strangle a Jew. You know, he's like, fuck you, dude. I dare you speak to a man so much better than you that way than anyway. But, um, so I was furious over the 12-day war, last summer. And I, uh, went on breaking points, uh, great show with Chris Dolan and Sager, who I love very much. He's smart, man. Great. So literally a love Sager to death. He's just great.

Uh, someone really happy to call a friend. And, um, he, uh, so I went on their show right after it. And I called for Trump's impeachment. I said he should be impeached and removed for this. He's launched a war of aggression. It's illegal. It's for a foreign country. It's what he promised not to do.

them, all the guys, you know, Josh Hammer and Ben Shapiro and Mark Levitt, they all just start talking shit about me. Look, this guy doesn't support Trump. Oh, he voted for Trump last time, but he's calling for his impeachment. Now, as if I don't remember where all you guys were in 2016,

when national review was running their never Trump, uh, addition and Ben Shapiro promised for,

for deeply held principal reasons. He could never support Donald Trump. And Mark Levitt was never true. All these guys were never Trump. Now that he's become a warhawk, what he explicitly ran against being in every election, now that he's become that they all love him to death. And they're destroyed. Like, so anyway, my point is, sorry. Sometimes you see facts like that. And you go, that's worth speculating about. I do have some questions I'd like to ask on how exactly these guys were able

to infiltrate this movement, destroy it from within and, you know, set our country on this trajectory toward another catastrophic war. There's a lot that went into that. I happen to agree more. I guess the only last thing I would say about it is, you started by saying the legacy media

“covered for the crimes of their masters, the ruling class, okay, got it. I mean, that's what”

they exist to do. That's what we have NBC news. That's why, yes, you know, I totally, that's why

Fox is here. But to see people in independent media doing that, and I understand it's for easy to get sidetracked. Like, you're mad at one person. And so anyone who is asking similar questions to that person, like, must be on that side. But like, try to retain independence in your head, like, don't get sidetracked. Certain questions have to be answered no matter who's asking them, right? Yeah. One of the questions I still can't answer is, why is it that all the neocons

are the ones leading the screaming in anyone who asks questions about Charlie Kirk's death? When Charlie Kirk was an enemy of the neocons, like, open enemy of the neocons, invited you to TPU essay, like, you don't invite, and he didn't, it's not because the kids at TPU, so they're like, oh, I grew up loving games. Yeah. Well, that's, I said that I've said this on other shows, too, but I said this to you, that it's like, there was something about inviting you or Megan Kelly.

Yeah, we're on Fox News as it's fine. Yeah. And huge fame as he was on Broadway, right? Not just like someone on Fox News, like two of the, there's no reason to invite you to a turning point of that unless he wants the kids of the audience to hear your views. Yeah. Which he did because he subsequently agreed with them. And I would know, because I talked about this a lot, like a lot a lot over years. So for the neocons, whom he at best didn't trust and mostly really didn't like,

“I never talk about what I think Charlie thought, because it feels so weird. Yeah. But I just have”

to say this. They're the ones leading the charge and shut up. Don't ask any questions. Like, you tell me what this is. Well, that's, and I'm not going to take orders from them. Who are these people anyway? This is the same reason why, this is the reason why I read that text message that he sent me. And it was because, well, part of it was because Candice asked and I'm friends with Candice and she was very close to. But part of it was that, you know, because it's a weird

thing to do. It's a weird thing to share private text message. Oh, I agree. One, especially someone who just died. And I got some pushback for that. And I understand why people like I get their point. Maybe I shouldn't have done that. I'm not sure. But you know, it was the thing where like Netanyahu immediately is trying to hijack his legacy. Josh Hammer and all these guys are immediately trying to hijack his life. And so it's kind of like selling their books. Right. Right. Literally,

dude, I was the most disgusting thing I've ever seen in my life. Josh Hammer did three interviews immediately after the only reason anyone's interviewing him is because he was friends with Charlie Carker. He was close around his circle or whatever. And every single time he mentioned how much

Charlie loved his book. It's like Jesus, dude. I mean, I just could never imagine getting a little

strong. Everybody knew the last girl was friends with Josh Hammer. Well, he had him in his circles or whatever his handler or whatever it was. But, you know, I remember, you know, right before Charlie died, he called me and he said, man, I just wish everyone would listen to your podcast. This is so crazy of a thing to say. Unbelievable. But the reason I released that is because I'm like, look, I don't know exactly where Charlie was on his evolution on this topic. Obviously, he had at one

point been a diehard pro Israel guy. But a lot of people were that and then kind of woke up over the last couple of years. But I know that he texted me after my debate with Douglas Murray that he said, he thought I did a great job. And he really did. He said something like,

“I read it verbatim on my show. He said something like, I believe it or not. I really didn't”

disagree with almost anything you said. Yeah. And I'm just saying Ben Shapiro wasn't sending me that text. No. So for people to try to pretend there was no daylight between the two of them. It's just not true. No. Okay. There was hostility. Right. Big time and not just with, you know, those guys hostility. I mean, I don't want to overstate it. I'm not saying he hated them as people. But I mean,

honestly, some of the Christian Zionist leaders, I mean, I was very he loved Israel as a country

“for sure. And I think he had a complicated theology, which I did not fully understand and still”

don't fully understand. But the idea that you would put another country before your own, like he just rejected that flat out. And some of those, some of the Christian Zionist leaders met are very aggressive and shark-like and very money-oriented and pushy. And he started talking about that openly. We talked about it with Neil Lot. Yeah. Well, he talked about it on Megan Kelly's show. I mean, talked about the reaction he got from evangelical leaders from well, maybe not from the

evangelicals. It was, it was a mix. Yeah, it was probably a, yeah, probably a mix of, you know, Jewish Zionists like, like the guys you mentioned, but also the people he grew up with who were evangelical leaders. And he was upset with them. I mean, I talked to him about it at length. It's if I could name names with who he was upset. I'm not going to, but because he's gone. But yeah, that's just real. And I don't know. I don't even like talking about this, but I'm just offended

by where this is going. And the bottom line is, every American has an interest in every murder

getting solved. And not just getting solved, but fully solved. Yeah. And if you have a government

“agency that's shutting down a legitimate line of inquiry, at very least you have to answer”

the question why you're doing that. And they, and Joe Kent has said in public multiple times, including to me, the FBI shut down any effort to look into international connections here within days of the killing. So someone should ask the FBI like, why'd you do that? And no one seems willing to ask. And look, we also know what we know about this FBI who I just could not be more disgusted with. And, you know, I know you saw when everyone's afraid of them. Well, what Dan Bungino was talking

all types of shit to me on Twitter or whatever, but it's like, look, man, you just, you know, there was a thing where people were saying, they were trying to go down Bungino into debating me, because he was talking shit about me. And, you know, as I was, I think I responded in kind. But the thing is like, he can't. But Dan Bungino, not only can he not come debate me, Dan Bungino can't ever do a difficult interview ever again for the rest of his life, because he's

ended in one question. I literally one question, ends it. I just go, hey, okay, so you looked the American people in the eyes and you swore that you had seen the proof that Jeffrey Epstein killed himself. Well, it's been declassified by an act of Congress now, so go ahead and tell us what you say. What's the proof? It's all declassified now. It doesn't, it doesn't, what are the few exceptions in the rule if it's national security or if it

harms the victims or something like that? How would it possibly be any of those for you to just tell me what you saw that made you comfortable enough to go out there and swear that you had seen proof that he killed himself. Cash Patel, Dan Bungino, but these guys specifically, and this is one of the

“big things, I think that would be 20 interjecting, no, no, not even anyone particular, but we say we know”

things, but I would always add the caveat to the extent you can know things, like, of course,

I've known many things, I've turned up to be wrong, so I could be wrong, but this is sincere. I believe I can say with certainty that Jeffrey Epstein was murdered. So I mean, but of course, I'm always open to countervailing evidence. Oh, he's smart, so let's see that my capacity for being wrong, but I can say if you could x-ray my heart, you would find that I believe with total certainty he was murdered and the people in the US government knew that he was murdered. So I want that to

be true, but I believe it is true. So like it's going to take a lot, you're going to have to show me that that's false. Well, the reason why I have so much contempt for Dan Bungino and Cash Patel, particularly, and Pam Bondi, too, but more so the other, too, is that these guys went around and really Dan Bungino, I mean, Cash did many podcasts and stuff, but Dan Bungino got rich doing his show and a really big show and he flamed that Epstein stuff for so long was like, don't let go of this one.

This is a huge scandal. We're going to get in there and expose it and I got to say every bit as much as the war and around, maybe not quite as much as this most recent one, but the covering up the Epstein scandal did so much to damage this administration totally because it went to something very fundamental, the fundamental promise of Donald Trump and the reason why Donald Trump, I believe the main reason that he wrote to political success and won the presidency twice was that

he said he was going to drain the swamp, drain the swamp was an incredibly effective campaign slogan. It was essentially saying, look, man, on some level almost all Americans know this,

profound crimes against the American people and none of them have been held accountable for it

“and we're going to hold them accountable for this and for this justice department now to go in”

and put up zero deep state arrests. I mean, if you just think about the fact that the intelligence agencies framed the sitting president for trees and for four years, I mean in obvious deep state coup to to overthrow an attempted deep state coup to attempt to overthrow a democratically elected president. Like it is, it was an outrage that they did it to him on the campaign, but it is a little bit different when he's a presidential candidate than when he has the commander in chief,

the president of the United States of America. They framed him for being a Russian spy. Donald

Trump is a lot of things. He is not a Russian spy. Okay. There has never been one. It was the most

ridiculous thing ever. It was all complete phony evidence and they knew it. They knowingly went forward with that and Andrew McCabe admitted on 60 minutes that he said their plan was to invoke the 25th Amendment, but they realized they couldn't get enough people to go along with that. And so they settled for Robert Mueller. They settled for a special investigation that would tie him down and not let him get his America first agenda throw. So there's that. There's COVID. There's, you know what I'm

saying? There's the abstinence stuff. There's all types of crime. I mean, COVID, you think about it. We they've reconlocked down the country and didn't disclose that they made it. They made the germ, themselves. Fauci was like the hero of the response for like a year and a half before they finally

came out that it was him who made it. I mean, just, and they have just at every turn protected power.

And again, like with the abstinence thing, man, like you don't have to, you only have to know, like, I don't know. You just know, like, if you know, like five or six things about it, you're like, okay, this is some type of huge conspiracy. You know, like, I don't know exactly what it is. And by the way, the files being released did shake up my interpretation of the whole thing. I tweeted this once, but I kind of, I mean, saying it tongue and cheek, but I kind of meant it sincerely,

that I used to speculate that Jeffrey Epstein worked for Mossad. And after the files came out, it's looking a lot more like the Mossad worked for Jeffrey Epstein. I mean, I did not think he was the the Rothchild's guy. I didn't realize that. You know, and so like, this thing is a gigantic conspiracy.

It's a, it's an interesting limited look into how power really works. And, you know what? I mean,

like, what's really good? Like looking through a stained glass window, you don't get a clear picture, but you see the shapes and you realize this is not what I thought it was. I actually came away from reading a lot of the abstinence stuff with the view of Israel that was diminished. I thought Israel had less power. Of course he was working with Mossad. I said that and got called a Jewator. Whatever was just true. So we're also working with CIA and intelligent services around the world.

But what he really was doing was acting as an employee of others as a kind of communications hub between the biggest stakeholders in the West. And so what you really saw was that governments aren't in charge. There's no meaningful nation state with full sovereignty. Like that's just not a thing. There's a superstructure. Who's outlines? I can't fully see or even partly see. But it's clearly there. And it's not all being run from the Levant by Netanyahu's probably got IQ of 110. He's not a genius.

So like, do you know what I mean? Yes. Yes. 100%. It's way bigger than Israel. Israel is just like a place to, you know, hide out if you've been accused of a crime, get a passport, do some money laundering, you know, whatever. It's a lot of things. But it's not Israel's not running the world. Yeah. No, there's something that you're absolutely right. There is there are power structures that we do

“not fully know about that are way more important than a senator. Of course, you bought the biggest”

lie of all, which is a competition between nation states. And you know what I mean? Yeah. That's right. Don has got its own interest, but so does Singapore and China and India. And it's like, yeah, it's some extent. But that's not as soon as you have the free flow of capital, a globalized economy, then you have a globalized government. It's just a fact. And by government, I mean, a governing body, which may be informal or have blurry edges, but it's still totally real.

It's way more real than countries. Yeah. Yeah. How are countries? Like, that's like you're almost a medieval view. Well, even, but the countries with kings and armies, that's like so dumb. Yeah. No, that's right. And maybe it was, you know, it's like it probably wasn't even true in medieval times. But I mean, it really wasn't. But like after 1848, like after you had like the creation of

“like real, what the resemblance or the, maybe the fiction of nation states, I mean, I think it's”

more complicated than I'm making it sound. But yeah. It's clearly not as simple as everyone else

really great book written by Murray Rothbard, who I mentioned earlier, called the Progressive

“Era. And it's about, you know, the, it's about, I think it goes from, um, it might like theater or”

rose of L for sure would draw Wilson FDR. And one of the things that they talk about is that there

was, and this really is true is that there were like, there were real people, um, who really like

meant well and were kind of, in my opinion, got it wrong. But, you know, the, the kind of moderate

“socialist types or the progressives who who were like, hey, we're such a wealthy country, we should”

have more of a managed economy so that we can make sure it's working for, for everybody. But really what ends up happening in the Progressive Era is then all the, you know, all, all the titans of industry, um, all the rubber bearings as they call it, they all got on board with it.

“And they went, oh, yeah, totally. We should have managed economy. Yeah, absolutely. We'll be”

doing the managing. You know, it was all, it was like all the money interest that they supposedly wanted to rain in where the guys who ended up getting control of the government anyway. And so this is, this is how it matters. Matter as sponsored by Microsoft. Yeah, that's right. That's right. So it's the gay pride parade has like a bank of America flow, come through it. And you're like, I mean, I know there is some leftist out there who really believes in the gay pride parade,

but like something bigger is going on than what you're doing. It's liberation, just trust me. This is going to be liberation. It's too ridiculous, man. No. Oh, well, good. Thank you for

everything you're doing. Oh, sorry. I've never get emotional, but I'm sorry to start yelling at you,

but that's just stuff. I enjoy it. It's literally nothing makes me happier than to be able that in agreement. I'll take you out. Dave Smith, you're the best. Thank you. Thank you, sir.