Doctor From Gaza Frontlines Exposes Israeli Torture Programs and Missile Attacks on Hospitals

landlock central African country of Rwanda to make a very complicated story short, the dominant

“tribe in Rwanda, the Hutu tribe, which controlled the government, had the majority of the population”

for a bunch of different reasons, rose up under the direction of their leaders and attempted to exterminate the minority tribe in the nation called the Tutsis and for a hundred days they did their best, they killed hundreds of thousands of them, more than half a million of them, many with machetes or burned alive or buried alive and they raped even more than that. And not just raped, but literally crawled AIDS patients in AIDS hospitals and sent them out

to rape to see women and to affect them with HIV, which they did. It was horrifying and it's the details of what happened during what is now referred to as the Rwanda genocide, filtered out to the rest of the world, people were stunned and nauseated by it and really

“bewildered that something like this could happen, not that long after the most famous genocide”

in history in the 1940s in Europe. To which we all said, well, that could never happen again,

well, it did, a version of it did happen in Rwanda in 1994, but it was even more distressing and in some way shocking was that the world knew what was happening as it happened and did nothing to stop it and in most cases said nothing about it, even when it was in progress from the very beginning four days after the genocide of Rwanda started, a Swiss journalist in Kilgali, the capital, published a piece in a French newspaper saying, I have interviewed eight officials and there's a

genocide going on in Rwanda. This ran in a Western paper and then was picked up another Western papers, but no one did anything. So the Red Cross knew it was happening. The UN knew it was happening.

“There were UN troops in Rwanda, the French government who was happening, there were French troops there.”

The nation of Israel knew it was happening. Israel had been a supporter of the Houtu government for decades. In fact, it seems pretty obvious that some of the bullets and grenades used to murder Tutsis were sold to the Houtu government by the Israelis. And in fact, there are some evidence apparently that the Israeli government sold weapons to the Houtu government during the genocide, which were used to murder Tutsis. We say apparently because the documents surrounding this have been

classified, they're under seal per orders of Israeli court on the grounds that where they to become public, it would be bad for Israel's image globally. So these railies knew. And the Clinton administration famously knew it was happening. But for domestic political reasons, didn't act to stop it. So the lesson is something horrible. In fact, genocide can happen. The world can know it's happening and allow it to happen. That's the lesson. And it's a lesson

that a young Harvard law student called Samantha Power thought about a lot, as she was getting

her degree in Cambridge. How can a genocide take place within living memory of the Second World War,

and the civilized world does nothing about it? Well, in 2002, she published a book on that exact question, a book was called a problem from hell. He won the Pulitzer Prize and all kinds of other prizes. And Samantha Power's case was pretty simple. The world cannot allow genocide to happen again. If people find out this is happening, they have to act. That's the mark of civilization. Do you stop mass murder of civilians on ethnic-grants genocide? And if you don't, then you're not civilized.

The United States, she wrote, has a moral obligation to intervene with force if it determines that genocide is underway. What's the point of having the world's largest military if you can't, at least try to prevent a genocide? Well, as noted, she was lauded for this. The book changed her life. She became one of the most famous people in the world. And in a fairly short period of time, a close advisor to then Canada, Barack Obama. He was elected in 2008, and promptly made her the

chairman of the atrocity prevention board. You may not have known such a thing existed, but it does. It's an interagency group. It still exists. Name slightly different. But its purpose is in the name, preventing atrocities, using the power of the U.S. government prevent atrocities. Well, there

weren't many well-publicized genocides during the First Obama term. But Samantha Power stuck around.

She went up teaching at Harvard Law School, and then Biden, he's elected, or becomes president in 2020, and she goes back into the White House. At this point, she is the head of U.S.A.

Security Council. She is a high-level foreign policy person in the Biden administration.

“Well, it just so happens that during her time there, the thing that she warned about, wrote about,”

actually happened, another genocide. This one took place in Gaza. The territory that Israel has control, formerly part of Egypt since 1967, and shortly after the attacks by Hamas into Southern Israel, in October of 2023, Israel decided to murder as many people as it possibly could in Gaza, with the aim of getting the entire population to leave Gaza so Israel could take over Gaza. Then when I were not guessing about this, because Israeli officials said, "Out loud,

this is our plan," and then they tried to do it. Two interesting things. Samantha Power, famous for opposing genocide, said not a word about this. Of course, by this point, 30 years after the Rwandan genocide, Samantha Power's view of genocide appeared to have changed, so the way to fight genocide really was to empower women and girls in the LGBT community.

“Fight the patriarchy. That's how you prevent genocide. But when an actual genocide occurred on her”

watch, as someone with the seat of the National Security Council, Samantha Power did and said nothing. She's now back at Harvard Law School, but she has actually been asked about this. You're the genocide lady, but you did nothing to stop genocide after writing a book scolding the rest of us for doing nothing to stop genocide. Why is that? She didn't respond well. I'm not here to answer questions like that, she said.

You can look it up. It's an amazing exchange. What she did not say was you're absolutely right.

I wrote a book saying the civilized world can't allow genocide to happen and then I allowed it to happen, but that's exactly what she did. But what's even more interesting is that she's not alone in this. Everybody knew from the first week after October 7th that Israel planned to commit genocide, traditionally to find genocide, targeting a population because of their bloodline and trying to exterminate or move them. Everyone knew this because Israel announced it.

Twice in October of 2023, the Prime Minister of Israel Benjamin Netanyahu said out loud in a public speech, the Palestinians are Amalek. Amalek referenced that many in the West didn't get, but

everyone in the region understood, and it's a reference to First Samuel 15. The first versus in it,

“which you should read, because it tells you a lot about what about what Israel's doing now.”

But those verses describe God's command to eliminate a tribe called the Malachites, and not just the draft age men, but all of them, including children and infants. All of them kill all of them, destroy all of their property, slay all of their animals. This is God's command. So in Benjamin Netanyahu describes the Palestinians as Amalek twice in the first month of the Gaza operation, you need to guess what the point of this is. The point is to destroy every

man, woman, and child, child, and infant in Gaza. And they said about doing that. But it wasn't just Netanyahu who said that. It was a lot of different authorities in Israel. And in fact, as someone who's been keeping a list of this for a while, it might be worth reading them. Just so everyone knows this is in blood libel. It is true on October 9th. So three days after the Hamas attacks, the defense minister of Israel, they're on Pete Hegsef described his plans

for Gaza, not for Hamas for the entire territory, for the over two million people who live

there. And we're quoting, "No electricity, no food will be allowed in. We are fighting human animals." Now, human beings, human animals. Well, the deputy mayor of Jerusalem, that winter, responded, not to say, whoa, whoa, settle down defense minister, calling your opponents animals, is of course genocidal talk. No, the deputy mayor of Jerusalem thought he didn't go far enough. And he said this, they're not human animals, they're not human beings. They are subhuman.

And then he said that the Palestinians of Gaza should be buried alive with bulldozers, which some ultimately apparently were. Ben Gavir, Matt Brooks of the Republican Jewish Coalition, carpet bomb, cabinet ministers in Israel, supporters of Israel in the United States,

There were discussions on the American right, but we should do what those gossens, the people who live there, move them to other countries, Egypt, maybe even the United States, get them out, kill enough of them that the rest leave the survivors want to flee.

And so the aim was genocidal from the very first day. These railies announced it.

Israel's supporters in the United States seconded it, amplified it, and members of the U.S. Congress on television, the people who are paying for this genocide, announced proudly, that's right.

“These railies have every right to kill civilians, and that's why we are paying them and giving them”

weapons to do so. Watch this. I would encourage the other side to not so lightly throw a round the idea of innocent Palestinians civilians, as is frequently said. I don't think we would so lightly throw a round the term, innocent Nazi civilians during World War II. In World War II, we did not negotiate a surrender with the Nazis. We did not negotiate a surrender with the Japanese. We nuked the Japanese twice in order to get unconditional surrender.

That needs to be the same here. Many people in this part of the world say what happened in Gaza does not align with Christian values, killing children, killing mothers, or not militants. Yeah, I did just, I don't buy that at all. Why? Because what did we do in World War II?

“Did we think one minute about starving the Germans? Did we bomb every city into blith to smithereens?”

So this is a war? Not the 7th to World War II. Yes, I am. This is an absolute existential threat to the Jewish people. We flatten Berlin. We flatten Tokyo. Were we wrong to drop an atomic bomb to end the Japanese reign of terror? Were we? So my view, if our Israel, other probably done it the same way. There are no innocent Palestinian civilians. We starve the Germans were proud of it.

We dropped an atomic bomb on Japanese civilians. We're proud of it. The Israelis should do the same here. Now, if there's another definition of genocide, intentionally targeting the innocent form murder, it would be interesting to know what it is. Keep in mind, none of these people, Brian Mas from Florida, Randy Fine from Florida. In the end, of course, Lindsey Graham from South Carolina. None of them even bothered to

add the caveat. Well, Hamas supporters? No. People who live next door to Hamas supporters. Down the street from Hamas supporters. In the same region as Hamas supporters, Arabs must be killed because they're Arabs. How is that any different from who to radio, comparing the Tutsis to cockroaches? How is the net result different? Well, it's identical in both cases. How is it different? And this is an explicit violation of the IHRA definition of anti-Semitism,

“but it's also true. How is this different from what the Germans did to civilians?”

In World War II. It's different in its scale, thankfully. Is it different in its intent? It's hard to see how. And if it is different, how? How is it different? Well, of course, it's not. It's the same thing. All of this, by the way, is going on with Samantha Power, not to beat up on poor Samantha Power, clearly. Didn't sign up for this. She just want to talk about the empowerment of women and girls in the LGBT community. But how could you write a book

on genocide or claim to oppose genocide or send money to a Holocaust memorial or talk about the

second one a year at all? And the atrocities against civilians and standby, much less

fund this while it happens. It's hard to understand. But not only have they, they being the supporters of these really government, they've done both at the same time lecturing the world about why genocide is wrong, murdering the innocent is wrong, and they're right. And at the same time, bragging about those very same things in Gaza. Here is a now thankfully famous couple of tweets from Randy Fine of Florida, gloating about the murder of civilians in Gaza. The first is a picture

of a dead child killed by the Israeli government that somebody put in his Twitter feed and asked basically how can you sleep at night and he says quite well actually, thanks for the pick

with an exclamation point. And the second is a story about starvation in Gaza, which is real

and entirely manufactured by the Israeli government with the backstop of the American government. And Randy Fine, on seeing a picture of starving civilians, women and children, writes starve away

genocide, but encouraging it, gloating over it, celebrating it. How did this happen?

“How did the rest of the United States stand by and allow the federal government to take its”

tax dollars to fund this? Israel could do none of this by itself. Of course, it couldn't exist without US tax dollars. It would be destroyed by its enemies. There's no question about that. So how exactly have members of Congress been allowed not simply to fund, but to celebrate genocide

here in the United States and the answer is really simple. By a form of moral blackmail,

where the real criminals here are not Smotrich and Ben Gaveer and Netanyahu in the deputy mayor of Jerusalem, the people who are calling women and children who are Arabs, animals who must be buried alive with bulldozers, starve to death, no, the real criminals, the people who should be in serious trouble, should go to jail,

“or the people who notice it, who complain about it, who object to it. Even the people who”

ever so mildly say, not my business, but I don't want to fund this, those people are the people who have committed the real moral crimes. Hate to put this up again, but it's such a perfect distillation. Almost everything Mark Levin says, none of it is original. All of it is the kind of most vulgar form of the talking points that everyone else is using. His are just revealing because he doesn't hold back. Here's Mark Levin describing people who complain about the genocide

in Gaza. Watch, who the hell do you think you are? Who the hell do you think you are? To use these blood liables against the Jewish people that they are indiscriminately murdering Palestinian civilians, when you spew the lives of the Hamas terrorists against the Jews and unleash anti-Semitism in

“this country around the world like we've never seen before. Who the hell do you think you are?”

The idea that the Israeli people that they're representatives in the government are committing acts of genocide and war crimes against the Palestinians in Gaza is sickening. It's a blood liable.

Joe Biden basically using blood liable if they're blood liable against the Israelis that

they're killing all these civilians. They're using the Hamas numbers. All of this will be certified. All of this will be sanctified. All the Hitler youth on our campuses to Hitler youth throughout Europe and the Hitlerians throughout Europe with a Holocaust started. This is what they're going to take out of October 7th. The enemy is Hamas. The enemy is Iran. The enemy are those who are silent in the face of this kind of genocide that is by the terrorists. Keep in mind that Joe Biden

did nothing to stop the genocide in Gaza. Of course he continued to allow the U.S. government to pay for it. His criticisms were mild and in the end ineffectual. And even as we noted, his in-house genocide expert didn't say a word about it. Why didn't let this happen? Just as Donald Trump has let this happen, it encourages it to happen. But anyone who notices it is the real terrorist. So what you have here is the desperate attempt which appears to be coming to an end of the people

committing the crimes, trying to remain the victim of the crime. And it's just not sustainable. It's not sustainable as a math question. All murder of civilians is wrong. But since we're comparing, in what place have more civilians been murdered? Israel or Gaza? It's not even close.

It's not even close. And again, you don't even need to go there. You just say it's always wrong.

It's wrong when you do it. It's wrong when you do it. It would be wrong if I did it. And we're all capable of it, which is one of the deepest lessons of what's happened in Gaza and Rwanda and Buchenwald. Is it the desire to kill groups of other people is not limited to one race or religion? It's a species of the same evil that lurks in every human heart. It's just the way people are. And under certain circumstances, good people can do horrifying things and support horrifying things.

And they're probably good people who support the genocide in Gaza because they're under some kind of spell. They don't know what they're saying. They don't understand the implications of it. They don't understand the physical reality of it. Everybody is capable of evil. That's the truth. That's the universal lesson. But supporters of Israel don't believe in anything that's universal. They believe that there's one set of rules for the country they admire and another set for the world.

our doing, it is doubly wrong. And that just can't last because it's self-evidently absurd

“and it won't last. And anyone who's defended it or helped pay for it will face at the very least”

a reckoning at the end and maybe sooner, one hopes. But in the meantime, because this is a process of stages, it might help just to establish what happened in Gaza. And of course, we're not really sure even now. There are more journalists operating in Kilgali, Rwanda without restriction in 1994 than there are in Gaza today. I knew one of them. Well,

Western journalist, he was never molested by anybody. The who two militia never heard him. He

stood by and watched the whole thing and he reported on it. That is not the case in Gaza. Hundreds of journalists have been murdered by the Israeli government in Gaza. And the purpose of killing them, of course, was prevent the rest of the world from knowing what happened there. But some people have been witnesses to this. And we want you to hear the interview that we just did with a man called Nick Mayner to his one of those witnesses. Because we think that his account,

which is entirely non-political or even political, is instead reliable. He's a physician from Oxford at the university in the UK. He's a cancer doctor. And for a number of years, and he'll explain it as to moment, he has been in and out of Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza in recent years, particularly in Gaza, both before and after October 7th. And the things he's seen there are so horrifying that they can't really be rebutted. No one can look at the man you're about to see

and say, oh, he's a secret member of Islam, and she hodd. Probably a closet shy. No, he's a British cancer doctor in his 60s who does believe in universal principles. He shouldn't kill the innocent

“because they're innocent. They've done nothing wrong. And when you do, you should be held to account”

for it. He's done an anti-Semitism. It isn't hate the Jews. Like a lot of Jews around the world, he is horrified by what's happening in Gaza. And he has the bravery to describe it. Cost of living is already making it hard to live here, and it's not getting any better, unfortunately, it's likely to get worse, and a lot of Americans fill the gap with credit cards, not just for fancy dinners, but to cover things like groceries and bills. That is

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which means they actually work for you, not the banks. They're called America's home for home loans for a reason call 800, 685, 56, 96, 800, 685, 56, 96 are visit American financing.net/tucker. So without delay, here is Dr. Nick Maynard of Oxford with an account of what he has seen and the people he knows personally who've been murdered by the Israeli government during the longest genocide in this world since 1945. Watch, Dr. Thank you for doing this. So you're

“a medical professor at Oxford. I think you have one of the world's most respectable jobs, most”

respected jobs, certainly. And now you are speaking about what you have seen in the most contentious controversial conflict in the world. How did you decide to speak about what you saw in Gaza?

In fact, how did you wind up seeing going to Gaza in the first place? So it was real pure serendipity

that I ended up going to Gaza in many ways. I was invited more than 20 years ago, maybe in 2006 to go to the West Bank to teach medical students at Al-Quds University in Jerusalem in Ramallah in Hebron. And did that on a very ad hoc basis for a few years. And then I was asked to do the same in Gaza and I leapt at the opportunity because I've already sort of fallen in love with the Palestinian people. I'd loved visiting the West Bank. So I went to Gaza for the first time.

Well, it's weird maybe for Americans to hear that the Palestinians have been so thoroughly maligned by our media for so long that people think of them as violent and primitive. What did you

particularly in Gaza. But they're generous, they're kind, very welcoming. I've always been treated

wonderfully by them. And when you get a Gaza, I mean, you see that even on a to a different level yet again, they are incredibly resilient and incredibly resourceful. But they are the kindest, most generous hearted, most beautiful people I've ever met in the world. Really? Absolutely, correct. I can't overstate the degree to which Americans have been told for decades that the people in Gaza are barely human. And that was not when did you first go? I went to Gaza for the

first time in 2010. And I, it was just an initial sort of trip to teach. And then I've ever since then I've been taking a team of doctors from Oxford to teach medical students. What was Gaza like, can you describe it in 2010? Yeah, it was, it was, it was under occupation. So it was a, it's been very, as he described as a large prison or concentration camp. And, you know, people might take issue with that terminology. But what lies behind that is the fact that the 99% plus of the

population have never ever been able to leave their country. So they aren't prison there. So we went

in through the most remarkable security from Israel. We went through the areas crossing in northern Gaza.

“That first trip took us most of the day to get through the security. And we had 10 days, I think,”

in Gaza, there's a western physician and took you most of the day to get from Israel and to Gaza. Yeah, because the Israeli security, because the Israeli security, it took hours getting through the, the most remarkably intense security, being grilled repeatedly about why we were going there. What we were doing, why we were going there? Why didn't we go to Africa instead? Why were we going to Gaza? If we wanted to help people, why didn't we go to African countries? Literally, those are

the questions we were asked. Is this the same border that Hamas came over on October 7? No, so eras is crossing is the very top of Gaza. The northern border with Israel, Hamas came out through the southern Pups and near the bottom of Gaza. Eras crossing has been was destroyed very early on in this conflict. So it's not being used at all. Certainly none of the humanitarian teams had gone in through that at all. It's sort of no pass area. But you get into Gaza.

“Now remember, vividly, my first visit there in 2010, meeting these people who were just so welcoming,”

there was so delighted that we'd gone to visit them. And the hospitality was just remarkable. And that's been the way ever since. And indeed, every year I've been going there, I've been taking new people most times. And everyone falls in love with a Palestinian people. And they all want to go back. So in those early years, I was just teaching every year. And I've been doing that until 2022. In fact, we had a teaching trip, planned for November 23, and that was really cancelled.

But I've also been involved, set put to that in carrying out and teaching cancer search. Yes, what I do in Oxford, so helping them develop their cancer services and teaching my specialty of cancer as well. What did it look like in 2010? Was occupied, as you said, but what was the infrastructure like Gaza City? How would you describe it? It, I mean, there was vast amount of wreckage of destroyed buildings, because this was not

it's worth pointing out that every single trip I've ever been into Gaza. And I've been many times in those 18 to 16 years. I've seen Arab environments as a way of life there. Every trip I've biased real, biased real, Arab environments on Gaza by the Israeli Air Force. So, and this was I was there in 2010, not long after the 2008 massive military assault on Gaza. So the destruction you see is remarkable. There's loads of buildings have been destroyed. In each time you go,

you see more of that. I remember going in in 2015, just after 2014, Operation Protective

“Edge, which you may remember, which is about a 58 day military assault, I think. The destruction”

of building was just like something I'd never seen before. So you have this sort of mixture of

mass destruction, but you see Gaza's rebuilding the whole time. They're there rebuilding their destroyed houses yet again. And, but it's a busy thriving place. You go down to the Gaza city where the harbor is busy. There are markets there. There are fishing boats there. They are desperate all the time to get back to normal living. But the resources are very limited. I mean, particularly in the healthcare system there, which is where I've been working. They never have enough resources.

limited resources for everything, for all aspects of living there. But particularly in the healthcare

structure. So in 2010, was just a before October 7th, 2023. How would you just, what was the state of the healthcare system in Gaza? It was, I mean, they practiced high quality medicine. The doctors and nurses, the scientists, the physiotherapists, the occupational therapists, remarkably talented. And I was teaching the students for years. I know how bright the teachers kids are. They're just remarkably bright. They know so much. A lot of it was sort of

die-dactic teaching online teaching, which we try to improve on in our sort of face-to-face teaching.

But so their knowledge is remarkable. They practice medicine at a very high level. But they

have very limited resources. So in my specialty in cancer surgery, they didn't have the resources. This is absolutely everything. So many patients had to, the doctors had to apply to get them transferred for example to the West Bank, or to Jordan, or sometimes into Israel, to have specialist treatment that couldn't be carried out in Gaza. So they had to work with very limited resources. How hard was it for cancer patients to leave Gaza for treatment? Very difficult. So there was a very laborious

application process. The Ministry of Health had to apply to this radio authorities. That took on average about three months for each application to go through. These are all people with life

threatening time-critical illnesses. So that three months that cancer would change a lot.

Of those applicants, about two thirds would get through, an a third would be rejected. So these are people again with life-threatening illnesses, which cannot be treated in Gaza. One and three were being rejected, so they would inevitably die. And even if they were grant permission, they were often sent out alone. So kids sent out for treatment for their brain tumor, for example, might be sent by themselves without any parent accompanying them. Were these kids with a

document in history of terrorism? Not at all. Not at all. Why would these railies

“prevent a child with a brain tumor from getting treatment, not at their expense?”

What's the thinking there? I don't know what the thinking is. I mean, there were some patients who were accepted into Israeli hospitals, and there were many examples of that. But why some were turned down, somewhere accepted, I've no idea. But it is a fact that many people were rejected despite needing life-threatening treatment. How many hospitals were in Gaza? There are 36. I mean, the United Nations tells us that 36 hospitals in Gaza,

but some of them are very, very small clinics. So there are probably four or there were four major hospitals in Gaza. The International Hospital in the North, she for hospital, which is the most famous iconic hospital in Gaza and Gaza City, and then the European Gaza Hospital, a NASA hospital in the South. Of those, NASA hospital, the NASA medical complex in Harnus, where I was based, most recently, is the only remaining large hospital in Gaza. And even that is very significant

“people. What happened to the other? They've been destroyed. Why? So, I think this is part of the,”

I mean, the whole healthcare infrastructure has been targeted in Gaza repeatedly over many years. I mean, I've been in Whitt Hospital, being bombed as long ago as 2014. But in this, you were in the hospital where it was bombed? No, I was visiting a hospital before, and then I visited auto-beam bombed. I've been in hospitals that have been bombed in this current conflict, but not prior to then. I think this is every single hospital has been attacked. I mean, nearly

2000 healthcare workers have been killed during this conflict, a far greater proportion than any other conflict and living memory. 75, Gaza and healthcare workers have been killed per 100,000 capita of population, 75, the equivalent number in Ukraine is 0.8. All the other conflicts are single figures of healthcare workers per 100,000 population in Gaza at 75. So, there's been a

“grossly disproportionate killing of healthcare workers, all the hospitals in attack. And I think this”

is, I'm going to be talking to you about what I've seen with my own eyes. The disproportionate attack on the healthcare system has been a deliberate part of the Israeli policy to dismantle

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“I think they were deliberate attacks. And I've been, I mean, I was in our last hospital”

and it was attacked. We were on my first couple of trips there before the raffa crossing was

destroyed in May 2024. The early trips I took out there since October 7. We went in through raffa. We crossed the from Egypt across the Sinai. And we, that very first trip, we went in and we were the very first emergency team that got into Gaza. And we stayed at the onatocation in us in a safe house rather than in the hospital. And each day we are Gaza and staff colleagues communicated with Cogat, which is the liaison branch of the Israeli army. To check that the route going to the hospital,

the hospital itself was de-conflicted. So there was a sort of a, what we thought was a very robust de-confliction process where the Israeli military would know that we were, we were driving along such and such to road. We were going to work and such and such a hospital. And we would be safe. That was naive of us clearly. You'll remember about the Grand Central Kitchen convoy that got

bombed. That was the first very publicised example of the de-confliction process breaking down.

Alex O'Hospital, I was operating in the operating theatre one day. It was January 5, 2024. I remember the day well, operating on a victim of a bomb explosion. And an Israeli missile attack hit the intensive care unit right next to where I was working. So we had to, while you were operating, while I was operating. So we finished the operation. We had to evacuate the hospital then. MSF had a team there. All the foreign aid workers had to evacuate to go back to our safe house.

And that hospital rapidly becomes disabled. So there are multiple examples of hospitals being attacked. These are not collateral damage. I mean, the propaganda we hear from the Israeli

spokespeople is always, well, these are either collateral damage or they are being used as

Hamas command centers and we're just targeting Hamas. And they've never provided any remotely credible or verifiable evidence to support those intentions. Well, as a doctor who's

“operated in these hospitals, did you notice Hamas command meetings going on while you were there?”

Not at all. And I've, it should since October 7th, I've been in two hospitals, but prior to then I've worked in all the major hospitals. I've had unlimited access throughout all these hospitals. And I've been to every square into these hospital, you know, NASA medical complex. It was bombed soon after I left most recently. I walked around every single part of the hospital. I've never seen anything. I've seen no evidence of Hamas military activity. Now, I clearly cannot talk about what's

going on in any tunnels because I didn't go into any tunnels. I clearly can't talk about what's going on in the hospital outbuilding 100 meters away or 75 meters away. And there may be that there were Hamas. I have no idea. I can bear witness to what I have seen. But of course, the Israeli military are not bombing those outbuildings. They've been bombing the clinical areas of these hospitals, where they've been patients, where they've been doctors, where they've been

medical students. I had been teaching a few weeks previously who had killed in the latest attack on NASA hospital. So there is, they are targeting the clinical areas. And I can say with very, with with with absolute clarity. And indeed, all my colleagues have been out there. None of us have seen any evidence of Hamas military. For comparison, again, you gave the numbers. The number of medical

the number who have been killed by the Israelis. How many hospitals have been totally blown up in

that war? Russia Ukraine do you think? I don't know. I mean, there has been significant targeting of Ukrainian hospitals as well. And Ukraine, the proportion of health care workers killed and hospitals killed in Ukraine is not as bad as Gaza, but it's much more than many previous conflicts. So both those two current conflicts stand out in that respect. But the statistics would say that Gaza is the worst. Targeting hospitals is a war crime, correct? Yep.

How many people do you know who've been killed? Many. I mean, of close friends, I'd say probably a dozen close friends have been killed. But I've probably no killed. Yeah, I mean, one, one,

young plastic surgeon who I knew who I'd worked with in May, 2023 when I was at Sheefa Hospital.

“He was executed. And I think, and I, I use that word very carefully. He was discovered about a”

mile from Sheefa Hospital with his mother. They were both had their hands handcuffed behind their backs, and they both had bullet wounds in the brain. So I've had friends who've been bombed, I've had friends. And he was a plastic surgeon. He was a plastic surgeon. Why was he executed? Well, when I don't know, I mean, I don't know what goes on behind this. What I can tell you is that when Sheefa Hospital was, Sheefa Hospital's been destroyed effectively twice during this war. But when

it was invaded initially, maybe two years ago, the all the staff were displaced, including very, very close friends of mine. And when they were allowed back in, when the Israeli military left off for a few weeks, they discovered the dead bodies of three hundred civilians in the hospital. Some patients, some staff, many of them handcuffed for their hands behind their back. Many of them with bullet wounds on the head, including this friend of mine. So there are multiple

examples of people of health care staff who've been killed. Health care staff who've been

“abducted. You know, I think the fifth, later, is nearly 500 healthcare workers have been abducted”

illegally detained without charge. Many of them. By the Israeli military, by the Israeli military, into the Israeli prison system, multiple examples of there being, them being tortured. This is all being documented in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, by group called healthcare workers, what you can Google it. They've produced a document called the killing and detention of, of gas and healthcare workers in, in, in, in, and there are multiple examples of

what kind of torture to the torture to death? Absolutely. So an, an iconic orthopedic surgeon who I didn't know well, but I had met an, in fact, I had coffee with him in May, 2023. He was tortured to death. And in fact, a sky television and vest to give journalists interviewed fellow detainees and, and did a, some remarkable, invested to give journalism. This is all in public,

“domain, and described how this surgeon's mode of torture was being raped to death.”

He'd been severely raped on a daily basis for two weeks prior to his dying. His body's never been

returned. I've taken detail testimonies from healthcare workers who've been in Israeli prisons and have been tortured. They survived. I've taken video and audio testimonies, and they've described me their modes of torture. How their genitals were repeatedly attacked specifically. They were electrocuted through their genitals. They underwent severe psychological torture. They were blindfolded for 60 days in a row. They were hand-cuffed. They were not allowed to lie down. They were on their knees

or sitting for 60 days and on stop beaten regularly. Electrocute them in awful things. And this document that I'm, you know, the healthcare workers watch your, your read your listeners can Google that. There's a, it, all the different modes of torture all of which by the Israeli government, by the Israeli prison service, guards and military. And this is, there is, and again, this is, the evidence is there. Detail testimonies from fellow detainees, from families. Indeed,

some testimonies from the Israeli prison service staff as well. And again, this has all been submitted to the international cults. Spring is the most refreshing time of year. Nothing compliments it better than black rifle coffee, lots of it. This is an American company founded by veterans with conviction. They built the whole thing around a simple idea. Do it right or just don't do it. They're definitely doing it right. We know because we drink it all day long. If you want coffee

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libel against all Jews. This is like accusing Rabbi's avoiding wells. It was basically Nazi propaganda. That that was the response. Does that sound plausible to you? It does sound plausible. I did not hear

“any examples of that, but what I have heard about and what I've taken detail of Tesmas of a”

some and the most appalling examples of torture. So one of my friends who was tortured for 60 days

in a prison talked about how I have heard no examples of dogs raping the prisoners, but I have heard multiple examples of the dogs being used as weapons. You'll be familiar with the drone warfare there. The quadcopters with cameras and guns will they have dogs who are trained to go into the hospitals with cameras and guns on their back and attacking people. And my colleague, who might took a detailed test me, has described that in great detail. Dogs are guns on their backs,

dogs with cameras and guns on their backs and going, being trained to go into hospitals and shoot people and there are multiple examples of that. So of a living dog, living dogs who are trained, they go into wherever and then there's a someone remotely controlled in the camera and the guns, and then they are. If you told me that it happened in a North Korean prison camp, I would have trouble believing you saying these really government did this. Well, I'm telling you what I have taken

test me of a friend of mine who witnesses on multiple occasions. What are people in that you live still in Britain? What are people in the UK say when you tell them this? So I talk a lot about this. I felt this obligation having witnessed all these atrocities that I feel I have to share this with everyone. I've done a lot of media interviews. I've done a lot of lectures at medical conferences, at laypeople's conferences, and I've met a lot of our senior politicians. And I'm not alone,

a lot of people have done this. A lot of my colleagues have done this. A lot of US doctors have done this. I mean, US doctors, British doctors, we've all publicly written to our governments a few of us wrote a very detailed dossier with photographic and written evidence of what we've seen. We presented it to we presented it to our prime minister. We submitted it to all the cabinet ministers. So they know what's going on. I visited Washington DC in the early part of this and met members of the

Biden administration with friends of mine from Med Global, a wonderful US NGO. We went and gave this evidence. We took enlarged, laminated colour photographs of babies who'd been shot in the head of children who'd lost their limbs. Of children who'd starved, who'd been starved to death. Literally, we've described this to the Biden administration. I've been to several meetings in our government, including one of the prime ministers, where we've described what's been going on.

“And it's had no impact at all. What was your meeting with Biden officials like? What did they say?”

Um, they, some of them were, they were binary, very receptive. So we, we went to, we met there as senators as well, but then we met members of the administration. They were very receptive. We, we clearly met people lower down the chain. We did meet Samantha Power. She was the most senior who was, who, um, I was very impressed with, uh, we got a very good reception and and very sympathetic reception. Of course, none of this goes anywhere. So we don't see any actions

of the, at the end of that. Um, but by and large, the US politicians who met were very sympathetic, but of course, they had no impact whatsoever. Smith Power became famous for reading a book on genocide.

Now, we can never allow it again. And then she allowed it again. Um, so your, your friend,

who was raped to death, your friends who were tortured, why, why were they detained and tortured?

taken compared to junior health care workers. My presumption is, I mean, I, again, I, I, I, I can tell you

a lot of facts about what's happened there. The, my interpretation is, is my opinion. It would seem to me and many other who've witnessed all of this. This has been a deliberate policy to destroy the healthcare system. Well, can, can you, can you give us a specific example of

“someone you know who was detained and tortured and what were the circumstances? How does that happen?”

So they, they're arrested within the hospitals. So my two colleague, one of them was arrested in, the Indonesian hospital, one of them was arrested in Nasa Hospital. There's Rayleigh military invade the hospitals. They, what would appear to be fairly arbitrarily arrest some, let others go predominantly males. Um, they, they, then taken off and they're, I mean, so I'll, I'll describe what happened to my, my, the last testimony. He was with, about 20 or 30 other health care workers

putting a big pit, an underground pit with no covering. They were stripped naked down to the under of their blindfold. Their handcuffed, they were left and have pit in the ground for two to three days. Then they were taken off to an Israeli prison. They were left blindfolded.

They were left handcuffed. They were beaten. Those first few days nonstop for 12 hours at a time.

Many other forms of torture we described about all, all, all along. One of my close friends who's one of the senior deans in the medical school there was, was abducted and taken away. He was only

“taken for, I think, 10 days and then released. But there are so many others. How old is he? He is,”

I guess, late 50s. Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, and there are folks not of militant age, not of militant age, absolutely. Absolutely. And what was the justification? Well, so they were, they were continually being grilled about, you know, about them being Hamas members and, and

what they had done in all that sort of stuff. Now, there are some, so, you know,

some Abu Sophia, who's the director of a Kamal ad one hospital was, was abducted over a year ago. And he's still under detention in Israeli prison. His lawyers can't get in the cart and use about him. There are many people who are still there. We can only speculate as to why they're being taken and why they're being tortured. But it seems, the deliberate disproportionate detention of health care workers and killing of health workers compared to other civilians

speaks to me that there is a deliberate policy of undermining of destroying the whole health care system. Are they charged with crimes? Put on trial. No, no, no, no, none of them are charged. None of them are charged. These are all people who are detained without charge. So, just completely lawless. But that's been happening for, as you will know, if the, the decades in the palace in the interritures, there are thousands of, of, of

palace in, in, in the West Bank who are in prison without charge. So, this has been happening for a long time. But certainly the ones that I have interviewed and the ones I've known who've been to, no, there were no charges at all. And a lot of these were adult, just adult men with families. Yeah, I mean, a lot of them were sort of, the, the age range of the people I know were from probably early 20s to late 50s. It's shocking. It's shocking to me. And having seen this,

“having witnessed this, this is why I think it is important that that that we tell everyone what's”

going on, because this is not what we're hearing from our Western media, from our governments, despite many attempts of, of, of, dot foreign doctors have been there to speak out and tell well, some of the accounts are so shocking that the military rolls into a hospital, a ducks, senior physicians, and then rapes them in prison with no charges. It's kind of hard to, believe that could be true. Given that Israel is regarded by, I think most people in the United

States is a civilized country. Maybe you disagree with their influence over our politics. But like, it's Israel. It's not that different from us. You're describing totally uncivilized evil behavior, organized behavior. I'm describing what I have either seen or what close friends have told me and the volume of accounts that I have read heard are overwhelming and, and, and, and to me,

So after October 7th, October 7th happens, are you in the UK when that happened? I was in the UK. Given how familiar you are with Gaza and the crossings from Gaza and Israel, were you surprised that Hamas or militants could cross the border in those numbers without

“pushback from the Israeli military? I think we're all surprised and I think there's a huge amount.”

We don't know about the events of that day. My concentration at that time was within 12 hours of that. I was being contacted by my friends and colleagues out there who, in the very, very early days were, were predicting there was going to be the most almighty backlash and that they were already on the day afterwards begging those of us who could to go out there and help them. So they knew what was coming. So I think by the next day,

by October the 8th they knew what was coming and we were talking to them and people were trying to get in there right from the word go to go and help. When did you get back into Gaza after that? So my first trip was we went in on boxing day, so December 30th we were meant to go in a Christmas day and we got delayed by the Egyptian military in fact and the Sinai. So we went into Gaza on December the 20th. Then it was the first, the first significant emergency medical seems that

“went in there. What did you find when you got there? I remember approaching it from”

this, we'd had us sort of very long crossing the northern Sinai going through the Egyptian military

checkpoints and it was a, I always remember there was a beautiful day,

beautifully sunny, no clouds in the sky. And then you could see as we approached Raffer from Egypt, you could see as we approached the Egyptian part of Raffer, you could see there's low-lying cloud over the whole of southern Gaza, which of course was smoked from the bombs and you could smell it from about two or three miles away. You could smell the burning and it was awful, it was awful. We got into Raffer, we got through the sort of Egyptian checkpoints, then the Gaza checkpoints.

And we had to drive through Raffer to get to the house, we were at the safe house, we were living in and this was, so this was you know, two and a half months into it, by which time a lot of people have been displaced from northern Gaza and Gaza City. The migration of

displaced refugees from the north was like something I've never seen before, as we were driving

through Raffer and then up the coast road towards middle Gaza where the hospital we were going to be working and Dar al-Balla was, it's impossible to put words to it, the thousands of people walking down, most of them walking, some of them in horse and carts, some of them in vehicles who'd been displaced and were moving down south to get away from all the trauma. So that to me was a site I will never forget seeing these people in the course. At that time, this is very early

on Al-Mawasi, which will be an area familiar with. It's what this rail is, Paradoxi, we're

“calling the safe area that everyone was being evacuated. You remember that one, of course,”

is not remotely safe. That time there were no tents up there at all. It was people walking there. The next time I went back a few months later, of course, that had been covered in tents. I say tents, but they're not really tents. There's a make-shift shelter. So the hundreds of thousands have been moved down south was just awful to see because their homes have been destroyed. Their homes have been destroyed. And you know, friends of mine have been displaced six, seven, eight, nine times.

That very first trip I remember. I was, I've been in the hospital in Al-Aqsaos from Derabella

for about four or five days. And we have, there are, I have many friends out there. One particularly close family who's daughter left guards are about eight years previously. She got a scott. I mentioned that she got a scholarship to get out. She stayed in the UK. She's a doctor there. She became a member of our family. She, you know, she, she, so I used to, I'd see her family every time I go to guard. So they came to visit me at the hospital in Al-Aqsa. Just a week after it arrived.

And they were distraught. I mean, they'd been displaced six times at that point. They were living no running water, no electricity. They had all written on their legs in ink, their names and their dates of birth. This is what they all did because they all expected to be killed. And they want

So it was, I, I saw that. I, I, I, you know, that first trip I, I thought I'd be prepared

because I had been on the phone to my gars and friends and colleagues almost daily since October the 7th. We have a strong network in Oxford and particular of people who've been out there. So we were all interacting with all our different contacts. We were meeting regularly on a weekly basis to do see what we could do. And I thought I'd be prepared, but nothing could have prepared me for for what I saw there. In your assertion, so it's not like you're feeding at the side of blood.

No, I mean, you know, I've described you. There's sort of the, the non-medical thing, so far. But of course, you get into the hospital and it was Alex or hospital, which is where

I was first based is a small hospital. It's not a trauma. It's a very small hospital. It has a,

“I think a bed capacity of 200 normally. There was something I 800 patients there. The,”

the grounds of the hospital, the corridors, the waiting air is covered in patients and their relatives. You could not, you could hardly move. And literally every time you walked into hospital, you were treading over people who were lying there or sitting there. And the trauma we saw, that time in December, 2020 and through the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the numbers of, air of bombardments was just non-stop. So we had mass casualty after mass casualty.

It was really quite remarkable that the awful trauma we were seeing. And this hospital, you know, that the, the quality of the surgical care, the medical care is remarkable. But there's any so much you can do with limited resources. So the capacity was of the hospital being repeatedly overwhelmed.

“Were you performing surgeries? Yeah. I was, I spent the whole time operating on major,”

explosive injuries, bomb injuries. And, and these were injuries affecting. So I'm a, I do abdominal thoracic surgery back home in exercise operating on the abdomen and, and the chest all the time. And these were injuries at that time from explosive injuries and from the, what are called the fragmentation missiles that were being used there. And these are the, the, the bombs, which have contained many thousands of very, very small metal pieces, which then actors, thousands of these are

shrapnel, which tear through the human bodies. These are bombs, which are designed to cause the maximum amount of tissue destruction. And they did indeed do that. So we saw multiple civilians children. 70% of the people I treated and that first trip were women and children being destroyed by these bombs are. I mean, I can talk about, you know, the little brother and sister, Aller and, and, and, and, and, and I, a six and six and an eight year old brother and sister with

the soul remaining members of their family. Their parents were killed by the bomb. Oh, come on. Um, and I, you know, I can, I can, I can see them in front of me as I'm talking to you about them. I

“can just, you know, remember their injuries. We were treating them. These were days when we had”

completely run out of all pain relief. So we had no pain killers give them. Before surgery, before surgery, in the, in the ER, for example, we were resuscitation them, um, little iron eight year old girl had such a badly broken leg that it had cut off the blood supply to her foot. So that leg had to be straightened in order to stop the foot dying. And that had to be done without any pain relief. And like, I'm telling you this, I can hear her screams as that was done. So we saw all four things.

And, and, and we, we, we, a group of us who've been out there did a survey of, of, of about a hundred foreign health care workers who've worked in the acute situation saying we had this published and the British medical journal, British medical journal ended last year, where we described the pattern of injuries. And, and, and this has been widely disseminated in the, in the medical world now because of the conclusions we drew, we described huge, terrible, shrapnel injuries,

gunshot wounds, burn injuries. But what we've described as multiple examples of high energy weapons being used in in civilian populations. And the pattern of injuries that we described is a pattern that's only previously been described in true combat situations. I, when soldiers fight soldiers,

the pattern of injuries we described using these high energy weapons, missiles, has never been

described in civilian populations before in such high numbers, which again supports the

indiscriminate deliberate, whatever, but, but mass targeting of civilian populations.

“And when civilians are killed by definition, it's murder because they're not part of it.”

Absolutely. They committed no crime. What are injuries like from high explosive missiles, bombs? So we, we don't see those who are within a few hundred meters because they're killed outright. I mean, they get, if they're very close, they're get killed by the shock wave, if they're within a few hundred meters, they get destroyed by the shrapnel. So we see people who are several hundred meters away, but they come in several hundred meters. Yes. We see, they come in with the

most of Pauling injuries. These are, you don't see the pieces of the shrapnel off and they're

one or two millimeters. You don't see them. You don't find them a jargon, but you see these

multiple entry points throughout the chest, throughout the abdomen, and causing the most of Pauling damage. I learned a lot from the guards and surgeons. I mean, I work in Oxford. We don't see trauma like that. We don't see trauma. Are there anywhere in the world really? Certainly not in the United Kingdom. So they had been dealing with this day and day and out. So it was a very steep learning curve for me, and for most of us coming from the UK, dealing with this sort of shrapnel

damage, which we don't normally see. But just shredding their way through the lungs, through the diaphragm, through the liver, awful liver, injuries, pancreas, bowel, injuries. And of course,

“sometimes you see multiple injuries throughout the abdomen. So you have to labor as you search out”

all the different holes and different things. So terrible injuries. And of course, they're life

threatening in their own right. But of course, the very strong narrative from my most recent trip, although we called this out on earlier trips was the malnutritionary source. So the starvation, these patient patients coming in with these terrible injuries, but also profoundly malnourished and their inability to heal from injuries from the surgery. So the mortality rate from these injuries was far, far higher than they could have been. I'm confused because we had a guy at

American called Johnny Moore, who's some sort of self-described Christian minister, who ran the Gazi humanitarian foundation. And we were assured directly by him that there's no starvation in Gazi because they were bringing in more than enough food did. That's not true. Uh, most certainly not true. Whether that's a deliberate lie or misinformation. I can categorically say there is no truth in that statement whatsoever. I spoke out about this publicly back in January 2024 when I

that was three months into the week. We were beginning to see the signs of malnutrition. I was there again six months later. It was much much worse. I was there again the following year. And the the malnutrition. I mean, I can I can reel off names of children who I operated on who died because they were malnourished. I mean, I they're printed on my mind. You know, little Habiba, a beautiful 11 year old girl who came in. She wasn't malnourished. He came in. But she had a severe

“explosive injury. Her her lower esophagus was shattered. That's what I do in Oxford. I operate on”

this office day and day out. I spent the whole of one night operating, reconstructing her esophagus successfully. Um, but because her esophagus was so damaged, she couldn't eat or drink. She was on event later. We had to tube feeder. We had no nutrition to give her. She died after four weeks. Her repairs intact. She died because she had no nutrition. Because the hospital had nothing to give her. We had no nutrition to give her. We had no nutrition to give any patients at all,

Tucker. No news. Where was the rest of the world? Well, I mean, this is something we've called out repeatedly. Very public is something I've told my government about that there is a total blockade at that time, the total blockade, which lasted about five or six months of any aid going into Gaza. From March the 18th, 2020, five when the Israeli broke that ceasefire. I was there in June, July. There was a complete blockade, no food going in. I saw members, friends of mine, surgeons,

I'd been known for years. One guy I didn't recognise because it lost 40 kilograms and weight. We all lost eight kilograms in a month there because we had no very little food to eat. The malnutrition, the starvation was appalling and those commentators who claim there was enough food

Foundation doing that? Well, they were going to tell a vision bragging about how Johnny Moore was

“telling everybody that they were saving the people of Gaza. Well, they weren't at all. I mean,”

the so prior to that, Unra was distributing food. They were called stopped by the Israelis. They were distributing food through over 400 food distribution points. And within the limitations of what food was getting into Gaza, they were distributing it as well as they could. They were stopped completely. They were replaced by the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, which had four food distribution points. Now I didn't go to them because I wasn't able to because I was in the hospitals. It was

two dangerous to leave the hospitals. You know, I was in NASA hospital where at one point the Israeli military were 200 meters away. We couldn't go out at all. The only safe place we call the least dangerous place was to say in the hospital. So, but what I did see with the victims who had been shot

“at those Gaza Humanitarian Foundation food distribution sites. You personally saw them?”

I operated on many of them. And I also had Gaza colleagues, Gaza and healthcare workers, who used to go out to the food distribution points, the GHF sites, to get food. And these were

they were all describing these food distribution sites as death traps. And the first inkling I had

that something horrible was going on there was, I think on something like my fourth day there, my last trip. I was called the operating theater by one of my Gaza and surgical colleagues who had a 12-year-old boy in the operating table. And it had been shot. It had gone through as a altar. He was dying. He was bleeding. They couldn't stop bleeding. So they asked for my help. I went in there. I couldn't stop it either. By which time it's clotting at all gone wrong. This

“happens in severe injuries. So he was bleeding out from there. And he died on the operating table”

under our hands. awful. And he was the 12-year-old. And his family told us that he had come with

them, that he had been sent by these rules starving there all very weeks. So the young teenage

boys of the ones who were sent out because they're the strongest to get the food. And he'd been shot by an Israeli soldier there. They're witnessed this. Well, I can't speculate any better than here else as to why this is happening. What I can do is I can document what I saw. And I can document what I heard from, and it was a seminar story from all the victims' families, from those that survived, from the victims themselves, from Gaza and health care workers who went to

these food sites in order to get food for their families. They all described the same things how these young teenage boys were been shot by Israeli soldiers. So that 12-year-old was shot. And then I started hearing from many others. And a friend of mine who worked in the emergency room in NASA hospital, one of the people I was telling about earlier, who had the previous year been incarcerated in an Israeli prison for 60 days and being taught to daily. He'd recovered. He was now working.

And he told me how they had noticed in the ER how there were different body parts being targeted on different days at the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation food distribution points. So one day, he said, and another emergency room doctors and nurses I knew corroborated this, that 19 young teenage boys had all come in and one day, all of whom had been shot in the head and neck. Nowhere else, just the head and neck. Another day, they came in predominantly with chest

injuries. Another day, they came in predominantly with abdominal gunshot wounds. And we noticed this, I spoke side of speaking to my fellow surgeons and the operating theatres, and we all noticed this pattern as well. On one day, the Saturday before I left, NASA hospital to come home to England, four young teenage boys were brought in all of whom had been shot in the testicles. Oh, come on. Just in testicles, nowhere else. And the pattern of injuries that we all witnessed

was so striking that it was clearly beyond coincidental. And it seemed to us that there was a game of target practice. And these were all children who'd been shot, Palestinians who'd been shot at Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, that food distribution. Absolutely. And I operate on the lot of the my operation, nothing with abdominal gunshot. How can you, okay, so if you're, let's say you're in the business of distribute not the business, you're, you have the ministry to distribute food to the

start getting shot at your distribution sites. Don't you do something about that? How could

“the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation day after day allow starving people to be shot at their distribution”

sites? Your guess is as good as mine. But just try and put yourself in their position when you say,

"Whoa, wait a second, we can't have this." Wouldn't you say that? Yes, I would. So I, I, I, I, I, I,

the, the description I got from many of my colleagues who went to them was that they, the food will be laid out in a compound. And the gate would be locked and they'd, there'd be enough food. And again, I kept this description from many of my friends and colleagues who used to, these people had been working in tense shifts in the hospital for 24 hours. Then before they went home, they had to go and get food for their families starving. So there'd be this food in a compound

and there'd be enough food for say 200 people in this compound. There'd be a narrow gate locked with everyone crowding outside. They would wait until there were four, five, six hundred people

“queuing up outside. I far more people than there was food allocated for. And then they'd open this”

narrow gate to get in and there'd be, um, utter chaos and fighting to try and get that food.

And that was when they were being picked out apparently. We shot in the house. They've been shot trying to get in and shot in the pen by surrounding soldiers. Unarmed. Unarmed. Unarmed people. Again, I, again, I stress this is what's been described to me. Well, I not just by you. I mean, we interviewed Tony Aguilaro was one of the American contractors hired to provide security for these sites who described the same thing and he washed his life overturned as he was slandered

yeah by, yeah, who's many defenders in our media, you know, paid liars by Johnny Moore, who ran it, who's now affiliated with Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia. And I do hope that the

people who run Liberty will sit, Mr. Moore down and ask him to respond to what you've just said

because you're describing a war crime, one of the most immoral disgusting scenes I can imagine, which he oversaw. And so you hate to think that someone like that could be rewarded by Liberty University, Lynchburg, Virginia after participating in that. So I just, I just want this on the record. Yeah, that it, I guess, probably matters. No one will pay any attention because no one has so far, but that's really upsetting. So the children, the boys shot in the genitals,

I has to even ask, but is that of something that can be fixed? Yeah, I mean, they weren't my patients because I'm not a urologist, but I remember when they came in because I was in the operating theatre complex at NASA operating on people with gunshot wounds the abdomen and my close friends who are urologists had this succession of boys being brought in who they were operating on. So I didn't, I wasn't involved in their care. I didn't follow them off afterwards,

but I can verify they were shot exclusively in the testicle. Oh, come on.

“And there were, I mean, I remember that same day on, on many of the days we got young boys”

being brought in from the GHF sites. There was one of the GHF sites was in Al-Naisi. And there were a lot of tents down there as well. And there were, we saw a lot of injuries from quadcopter drones. These remotely controlled fixed wing drones, which hover, they have guns on them, they have cameras on them and they're flown all over the place in Gaza. We saw many people shot by them. They were flown into hospitals. One of my friends was shot in the chest in the operating

theatres at NASA. It was not when I was there. It was before I was there. A quadcopter was remotely controlled, presumably by someone in Tel Aviv or somewhere flown into the hospital, shot him in the chest when he was in the operating theatre. He's in the operating room. He's in the operating room. Early in the morning, preparing the operating theatre for a imminent operation. When this quadcopter shoots him in the chest, he survived. I was with him a few weeks later than that.

Indoorce. Indoorce. Indoorce. I also saw victims, young women who had been shot whilst in their tents in Al-Mawasi. Quadcopters hovering over the tents, spraying bullets indiscriminately onto the tent. So I had one woman who was three months pregnant, who came in with a gunshot. We had an abnormally operated on. We saved her life. The baby survived as well. The bullet had missed her pregnant uterus by about two or three centimeters. So we saw examples

like that of these quadcopters spraying bullets onto all the inhabitants of these tents. But I mean, the quadcopters are controlled by remote by someone who can see what they're shooting at.

remotely controlled to use an artificial intelligence. That's not speculation. Yeah, to help the targeting. But absolutely, they were being controlled somehow and going into

hospitals spraying the tents in Al-Mawasi. We saw many examples of that. I saw them on my first

trip in December 2023. We saw in Al-Aksa. We had victims coming in from quadcopters. What did you think of all of this? I was, you know, I was really skeptical. When I was told on that first trip that these were quadcopters. I didn't see any quadcopters. We heard that you hear the drones the whole time. I could not believe what I was hearing. I didn't believe a lot of it early on to be honest with you, Saka. I just, I was naive. I assumed this was just, I wonder,

was propaganda. But I saw so much on all these trips. I saw so much clear evidence of children

“and women being targeted that I believe all of it. I mean, much more than the average person you”

spent your life around death and suffering and human drama in your cancer surgeon. So, presumably, you've got a higher tolerance for this than most people. I mean, obviously, you do. But what effect did it have on you seeing this? You do get your apps you write and I think working with cancer.

I've had patients, you know, die of their disease for decades of your get. You know, I've always been

a doctor who, who, I, I, I valued intensity the relationship. I have with my patients. The, and there is, you always have an emotional involvement. You, you learn to control that. But of course, you get emotional involvement with your patients because you care about them deeply. So, yes, I am conditioned to deal with that. And I think doctors, nurses, health care workers, our

“condition. Yes. To deal with these things. And when we're, when we're operating on these appalling”

situations, these children, when you have children dying under your hands on the operating table, you, you, you, you, you deal with it there and then you get on with it. But the aftermath

later that night is, and when you get back to to England is awful. And I learned we all

learned a lot how to deal with the emotional turmoil we all experienced. And we shared a lot. We talked a lot late at night in the, you know, on, on the, on the, on the fourth floor of NASA hospital, interestingly, where the, the most recent big massive bombing of the Israeli military on NASA hospital was on the fourth floor, which is a claimed coming back to one of the earlier questions. They claimed that was where Hamas militants were masquerading as as journalists. In fact,

“and it was not a clinical error. In fact, the four floors where we were living is where the intensive care”

unit was, it's where the operations here to complex was. It was yet another clinical error being targeted by the Israeli military. But coming back to what you asked me about, we would, at the end of the day, whether it was a 10 o'clock midnight, two in the morning, we would talk and share the awful things we'd seen. And that was very therapeutic. It was really cathartic talking to each other and share with these mostly western doctors. No, no, I mean, yeah, there were few western doctors, but a lot of

gars and doctors as well. So we'd all congregate and, you know, I was meeting up with people some people I'd known for years. But it was a mix of gars and an wests and doctors. All just sharing these appalling things. And that was two an extent cathartic. It was, it was very therapeutic. But it lingers with you. And you know, and I can very openly say that all of us who've been out there have been affected deeply emotionally. But I want everyone to realise, you know, we're there for

two, three, four weeks at a time. Our gars and colleagues and they're there. They've been seeing this day and day out for two and a half years. So whatever we have witnessed and seen, they've seen far more worse. And the the psychological trauma that the mental health damage is incountatable amongst all the gars and people. But you get back to the UK and almost not internal, but almost your entire media is conspiring to hide the truth of what's happening in Gaza and attacking anyone

who calls attention to it. How do you feel about that? Profound anger. I mean, I took, you have a real a very complex set of emotions when you leave gars and having had a trip like this. You feel guilty that you're getting out and they can't get out. You feel immense sadness that you're you're leaving friends who you know may be killed. All my friends out there tell me and they've

survive and you but you feel this incredible anger towards your government, towards our government,

our media and I you know that the media is not particularly interested in listening to what we say now but but they were to a degree then and particularly once we've just come out. So I would, I did a lot of media stuff and and they were individual journalists, there was some some wonderful journalists I've met and shared my experience with who's been desperately trying to get their media outlets to

“show this. But you know the BBC, I mean the BBC's I think as an as a corporation's behaved”

appallingly over the last year. But that doesn't hurt that you know there have been some wonderful BBC journalists who I know who've been desperately trying to get this out and have been thwarted some of them have ended up resigning because they've been so appalled but there are many really worthy passionate journalists who want to get the information out there but they're being controlled and not being allowed to by that senior editorial boards. So it's been hugely frustrating, hugely

for us. There are also people who've defended it flat out. Certainly here in the United States there are

many people in our media who basically is to tack anyone who points out what's happening and slender

them as haters and Nazis. What do you think of that? I think it's I mean it's I mean it's profoundly

“dishonest. I think that so I think a lot about why people are denying this and why they're not”

allowing it to get out. I think there's certainly my country there's a lot of cowardice, huge amount of cowardice both in the media. I talk a lot about how our institutions in the UK have failed Gaza, our academic institutions, our medical institutions, our associations, our royal colleges. They've all been silent and our media clearly as well. So I think at one level there's a lot of cowardice. They're petrified. They're going to be accused of being anti-Semitic and that.

The appalling crime of anti-Semitism has been a terribly weaponized as a result of what they're going on and people are petrified that if they do come out and say these things they will be accused publicly of being anti-Semitic. And of course that label lost doesn't it? Oh yeah so it you can't have a job. Yeah exactly so it's very difficult for them. I think but I think it's not there are many examples when it's much more maligned than that. I think

there are clear agendas to try and shut this all up so that the truth doesn't get out. And I you know I mean it's public knowledge many of our senior politicians have funded. A lot of their campaigns have been funded by various lobbies with with with with with money for Israel. The I think all of your politicians all of our I mean I think it's out there in public not they all I think you can look at the individual every single one of them has been so in all three major

parties. Yes but I suppose it's been to the major parts of the year and then reformed labor and so I'm just trying to reform this major party. Absolutely you're absolutely right. They have been and that's all public knowledge and I think that the I mean there's a one of I don't know if you read the book by called "Complicit by Peter Oborn". It's it's it's a well-known British journalist who's written a book called I'd really urge everyone to read it. It's about the the way that the UK

meeting the government has been complicit in this genocide in Gaza and it lays bare all these things about how compromised our politicians are how compromised our institutions are how

“compromised our media is. I'll never forget maybe 10 years ago you had this head of the labor party”

who was you know an old leftist or kind of pro-soviet leftist I didn't have much in common with

him I never really thought about him. But the one issue on which he was kind of different from

you know the people who paid for the party was on Israel. He was skeptical of British support for the state of Israel and I've never seen a man slandered like he was slandered. I'm getting it's not my role to defend him I'm not British and I'm not you know an old leftist but that guy was basically driven on a public life and after that happened the labor party just kind of swung into alignment with the conservatives and with reform and basically the entire British political

establishment is on the same page. Don't talk about Gaza. Israel's our closest ally shut up Nazi. Am I imagining this? No it's your portraying exactly as it was and you know I'm not a

out there but I it it it seems very very clear to me that this the weaponization of anti-semitism

is right through our society and it's being used to shut people up and you know I I I've got to know Jeremy Corbyn quite well in the last two or three is I've shared platforms. I was referring to Jeremy Corbyn. Yeah and and I don't I having spoke I don't believe there's an anti-semitic selling his body.

“I think he is passionately supportive of the Palestinians and that is what his motivation has been.”

He he he tried to get he passed try to pass a bill through parliament to get a a tribunal to investigate what's being done it was clearly turned out he ran his own independent tribunal to into which I contributed my evidence as well and but there was evidence for a whole host of people as a publication worth looking at and it it speaks volumes about the people who have have witnessed what's going on out in the in in Gaza and are desperate to get the truth out there what's really

going on and and and describing how they've been how the attempts to shut them down has been unacceptable. So I think it's the only reason I bring this up British politics and obviously none of my world at all. I'm definitely nonpartisan when I come to British politics but I think at some point when it becomes clear what happened that there was you know the largest

ethnic cleansing attempt since the Second World War since the Nazis right on the edge of

Europe right across the Mediterranean from Europe like right there with money and support from the United States and from Britain the question is going to rise like how did this happen where were the people were supposed to say something about it like how were they able to do this in sight of

“the world in the world did nothing and I think these are part of the answer.”

Yeah I mean it is it is unfathomable how the world is allowed this to happen but the evidence is is is I mean I've been to the International Criminal Court on several occasions to give my evidence and the evidence they have is is vast amount of evidence they have now. Really huge amount of evidence because they've interviewed many many people like me you've been out there. I can speak for my own experience of what I've shown to senior politicians what I've shown to

the BBC you know I gave them I I've spoke to BBC journalists about my experience with those young teenage boys I gave them all the evidence I've just shared with you and the individual journalists were desperate to get it out there desperate but they were not allowed to and not allowed to well I just and I wasn't part of the editorial discussions but they were clearly

being held back by their seniors and they never got out there. I mean I've spoken about it on camera

on camera so I mean never aired it but so I know I've spoken about on camera that evidence I gave was all independent it was was separate non-public evidence but they never they were they were wanting to develop that into a detail story which they never did so I've any ever shared that on brief interviews on media on the UK that is remarkable they wouldn't show it but I mean there are many examples like that they've they have not been you know you just have

to hear every single BBC reference to girls it did to the death to the figures of death they'll always talk about the Hamas led Ministry of Health that is clearly a senior policy whenever you

“mention the girls in the Ministry of Health you have to say that the Hamas led girls in”

Ministry in order to discredit their findings. Precisely I can see why you're a threat to that propaganda operation because you're not working for Hamas working for Oxford so you have more credibility so I can see where they would want to air. Yeah so the responses either not to show what we've said or or we get accused of not by the BBC but other other agencies of lying or have you been accused of lying multiple times yeah yeah what would your motive be for lying

they made it at all and I'm I'm I'm at pains to point out repeatedly that that I'm a humanitarian I'm not a politician I'm a humanitarian and I am reporting what I've seen with my own eyes I've born witness to what I believe to be war crimes almost on a daily basis that I've you know the clear as evidence I can imagine in the absence of being an international lawyer of genocide being carried out it has been a cleansing being carried out it seems to me I'm I'm astonished that

that I think those that refuse to acknowledge it have have have malign intentions in suppressing that

and it's hard not to see design and all of this I mean the a chariote definition of anti-semitism which now has the force of law in a lot of the world is a crime to say certain things thanks to this definition and in that definition one of the examples given is any comparison between the actions of the Israeli government and the German Nazi regime of the 1930s and 40s it kind of seems like because that's the obvious compare of course is the obvious comparison it kind of seems like

that was a preemptive attempt to keep people from noticing the obvious yeah I mean I'm I I see the great value of my tests me describing what I see rather than trying to make comparisons

“right that's friend and I think I think that and I've seen many other”

health care workers being there do this with all the best of intentions but it dilutes the strong message I can give and I don't want to distract from that so I will I will I think the

the evidence I can just describe in my own eye my own eye witness test me is so powerful by

itself that that I'll stick to that side that's very wise and more powerful I agree with you do you think what's happening in Gaza is well known within Israel? I have no idea I mean it it it it seems very difficult to believe they don't know what's going on but I guess we've witnessed repeatedly the propaganda coming from Israeli spokesman who speak to our media I can only imagine that it's you know it's much more accent than that what's going

“internally so I think that's right so I mean I remember I don't know about a year ago just in”

as an example of the Pauling propaganda the BBC talks repeatedly about how they have to have a balance approach this and it's a false balance we all know it's a false balance so they will give X amount of minutes to someone speaking up for what's going on in Gaza and they'll give the same amount of time to an Israeli spokesman about a year ago they interviewed my closest friend in Gaza who I've known for many many many years an inspirational doctrine by the way we we talk about

all the horrors the atrocities the the the share evil that I've seen with my own eyes I've also seen that the very very best of humanity so and the most inspirational heroes wonderful people one of them is this very old friend of mine who I've known for since 2000

tensions my first trip he was interviewed is the doctrine Gaza and he was interviewed by the BBC

the radio for today program which is our sort of flagship news program in the morning and they gave him six to seven minutes and he interviewed brilliantly and then the media they interviewed the interviewer one of the Israeli spokesman called David Mensa who had used work and I think he headed up UK Labour friends of Israel or something but then he was interviewed and he started off by saying well it's important your listeners understand

that we know that man who you've interviewed is not a proper doctor we know he is a senior commander in the Hamas military and that that you cannot accept anything or it is said for the truth now I'm not talking about my opinion here I'm talking about what our clear facts I know this man I've known him for 16 years he's an inspirational doctor what this man David Mensa was saying was we were clear lies and deliberate lies so I contact the BBC through some of my contacts

and got through to the editorial board's paper and said listen you you've knowingly allowed this man to speak lies you know these are not different of the opinions these are

“out and out lies you need to give me the right to reply to speak up for this man who's been”

maligned on this and they they debated it but they didn't let me have any writer and their arguments we feel they've had a balance they've both had seven minutes and that was a balance and of course that's their stock answer which is a false balance is not giving equal exposure it's got to be so frustrating to live in a country like the appalling are there any politicians in the UK that you think are open to doing something about this most certainly I've met many

and again say it's like the journalist I've met many great journalists who want to I've met many

Zack balonsky policy but he's spoken out at length I've spoken at length to Jeremy Corbyn Zara's Altana many backbench MPs in the Labour party the the SMP part in Scotland has been brilliant and speaking up the Lib Dems have had people they've even been one or two Tory backbenches who just very very outspoken and very supportive so there are many people there and

they are all waking up they have all woken up the we've had some incredible marches in the UK

you'll see in pictures of them you know getting on from million people sometimes marching in London support cars that they're they're not hate marches as we're being told by reform and the conservatives and our right wing media these are people I've been on many of them with my wife my daughter who are avid marches their peace mod their supporting the the guards and people who are being ethnically cleanse of being who are undergoing a genocide but that has had an impact

there is a huge pressure being exerted by the people who who've woken up to what's going on via going going to their MPs and they are having an impact I mean there's nothing like enough

“and of course it's far too late but but there are a lot of backbench MPs who I think are”

a poll it's interesting though you say it's the right wing media in the UK that's supportive of Netanyahu's ethnic cleansing in Gaza in the United States it's kind of the opposite it's it's a lot of former Trump voters who are maddest about what's happening in Gaza what I mean there's no reason any nationalist should support what's happening in Gaza how is that good for the UK how is that good for the United States why do you think conservative media and

politicians in the UK have been roped into supporting something that's terrible for the UK I mean I I don't know the answer that I guess it's it's it's it's would include I mean I think our mainstream parties are all like that now and I think that the media supporting the mainstream parties is very few media outlets in the UK which is

“supportive of what's going on in Gaza so it's perhaps not just the right wing but I think they are”

the they are the the the the most vocal about this I don't know I mean I think no disappointing it is I think the the the book I mentioned competitive IP to open goes into this a lot of detail and it's some fascinating insight but it it is it does seem to be there's a very very vocal sort of group of commentators on the right to who who who speak out a lot in support of Israel and and a very successful in in calling out

those who are speaking against it that's sort of pressing how are you treated by these really government when you transit through Israel can you go there now? I've not been able to get into

the last few months I'm trying to go I'm hoping to go in in August but you never know they they've

in the in the last few months they've stopped all people the majority of people like me who have spoken out have been stopped from going in they've now banned more than 36 NGOs from taking medics into Gaza MSF has been there's been banned from going in other very well known humanitarian organizations have been banned completely so about a year maybe more than a year ago now about a year ago the Israelis announced they were introducing a new

registration process for ages is that wanted to take in doctors to work there and which of course is against international law because we don't have to be read we go into work in the occupied palace and in territories and our authority is given to us by the palace in an authority but nevertheless

“you have to go through the Israeli borders and their registration process the document details”

exclusion criteria as to what you know what would prevent us being registered one of them is that if any any if the organization itself or any member of the organization or any volunteer with the organization has any time in the last seven years criticised the state of Israel that organization will be banned from working in Gaza or the West Bank now that will that will exclude a significant majority of of the most prominent humanitarian organizations you probably wouldn't be there in the

first place if you supported with Israel was doing that if you say four ethnic plans so it's made it

the one remaining hospital in Gaza which by the way she has asked at the outset what do you

think the population of Gaza is right now so it's a good question so the the official figures from the Ministry of Health recognised by the United Nations and indeed recognised by the Israeli military now is about 76,000 killed by trauma alone the launch at medical journal which has published brilliantly a 76,000 just from trauma the launch at medical journal which has published brilliantly estimates because there are many thousands of people buried on the rubble including friends of mine

so they estimate with with with with great authority I think that that has underestimated by about 50% so there are probably a hundred thousand killed directly by trauma but that excludes

“the excess deaths we'll remember that term from the COVID pandemic those people dying of”

non-coverly because like cancer or kidney disease so in Gaza there has been no cancer really being treated for two and a half years no kidney disease many of the dialysis machines and chief hospital were destroyed by the Israeli army when they went in there so there are many of that there's 350,000 people in Gaza who have chronic illnesses that require regular medical treatment which aren't being treated so there are many infectious diseases malnutrition we talked

about so there are many many people dying of excess deaths now the launch at estimates again they launched estimated 18 months ago that that figure was probably about 180,000 on top of the trauma deaths there are other estimates and of course these are difficult to be overly accurate but

“there are some estimates that at least several hundred thousand I had one estimate saying it was”

over half a million excess deaths now even if you just take the first perhaps conservative

launch at figure of 186,000 when you include the trauma deaths that's over a quarter of a million that is well over 10% of the population of Gaza and the more extreme examples are more than 20% of the population of Gaza so the population of Gaza in on October 6, 2020 was about 2.2 million it's certainly under 2 million now i mean it's shocking and for that whatever that number is but over a million people there's one major hospital that's it so yeah i mean so NASA hospital

is the only really major hospital still functioning but but but it is not functioning fully i mean when i was when i was there we run out of stuff the whole time i talked about often having no pain calisaskiv patients um we had i had one two week period when we had no sterile drapes to use in the operating theatre so we you know you sterile drapes to create a sterile operate it feels you can operate reducing the risk of infections we had one two week period when we had no sterile drapes

we had to make our own zada gowns and you know we couldn't create proper sterile fields we had another period of time when we had no running water in the operating theatres so we couldn't scrub up properly so we had use alcohol jelly on our house oh come on there are occasions and i've talked about the lack of nutrition given given to patients we had some days when you know there's been no electricity in Gaza since October 7 so the hospitals are totally reliant upon

their own fuel sources to which they get some from the United Nations as well but they're always

under threat of running out of fuel and there've been multiple examples when fuel has rash and hospitals so when the fuel runs out there is no power when there's no power the ventilators don't work so patients on ventilators die when there's no fuel the powers for the incubators for the new

“warm babies can't work so those babies die there was an episode about 18 months ago i think”

an alnasa pediatric hospital in Gaza City i think about 18 months ago when the Israeli military invasion of the hospital kicked out all the local staff and there were six neonates left in the incubators when they were kicked out and they said you know there are six babies there and they were sure they'll be fine this radio military left after two or three weeks and the doctors you some of whom i knew went back in there and those six babies were there in the incubator's dead

their bodies rotting oh come on now and there are many other similar stories like that

i'm a poll and i'm disgusted and and i've said this to our politicians you know we've we've

“gone unspoken to them we've spoken to our prime minister a few of us spoke to him and to Keerstarmer”

yeah to Keistarmer i mean it was and and and we've talked about you know the fact that our government is still you know they claim there's an arms embargo there isn't we're still supplying parts for the F-35 jets are the raw air force is flying reconnaissance flights from Cyprus over Gaza on a daily basis giving military intelligence to the Gaza why do these radio military because of the relationship we have with Israel because of our support for Israel but there's real murdered

so many British diplomats and military officers at the founding of the country why why would the British government know anything to Israel which again was founded by murdering representatives of the British government you're absolutely right and i don't know the answer

“that i mean we can all speculate but it is bizarre i don't understand it i mean i i i it”

there is the clear as evidence in my view that the you know our governments are complicit in what's going on there they need to be held to account last question do you plan to go back yes i'm trying to get in in August i've applied to go in i many of the the NGOs that that i know well have been banned so i'm trying to go in with another one at the moment um so i hope to i i i know that because i've spoken out so much the chance of Israel refusing the entry is very

high but i will keep going i will keep trying we're killing you once you get there yeah i mean these there's no there's no question that being in gars are as is unbelievably dangerous i've been injured out there from from a bomb injury there's no question that it's play dangerous but

“statistically there has not yet been a single foreign doctor killed there and i'm not in any way”

understating the the dangers of being there and of course is a very dangerous place and of course one you know times you feel fear when you're out there but trying to explain what i'm speaking on as many others would what motivates us whatever we feel at any one type one time is a complex mix of a whole different set of emotions so fear's one of them um desire to be there helping

or friends is a very powerful yes incentive and that to me when i'm out there is by far

under way the dominant emotion so that outweighs any fear we may have and that and it you know i'm not it's not just a lot of us alike this we we we have this we're so disturbed by what's going on there we're so disturbed by how but by how much our governments are a complicit in this what is being done to the gars is so fundamentally wrong not just in the last two years but for decades what's being done to me so fundamentally wrong that that those of us who've had the

great privilege of knowing and loving the the gars and people for so many years and working with them have this absolute obligation and i couldn't imagine doing it any other way of having to go out there and help them what is your family think um very supportive my wife for nula is this passionate as i am about the gars and the Palestinians we are mentioned earlier we have a we have a a gars and daughter and informally a gars daughter called enasu we love dearly she's

she's never been able to go back to gars as she's become a member of our family um we we're our

house has been over over years has been a bit of a refuge for gars and medical students and gars and doctors who've managed to escape they often come to stay with us or we fix them up with other friends for accommodation we've managed to take two wonderful gars and medical students into Oxford and we've managed to get them part of our medical school now in Oxford so my wife i could i do thing i could do all of this without for nula's support and she's she's a gen is heroic as any of

us in in in in supporting me in this respect am i kids likewise i mean my daughter i've got a daughter and two sons they're all very passionate my daughters are full-time activists most of the time um but they're all very supportive and of course before i go i go and talk some all into the gen explain they know why i'm going and they they i go with their complete blessing

If you made it to the end of that, thank you for watching. We'll see you next Wednesday.