The Tucker Carlson Show
The Tucker Carlson Show

Iran Update: Israel’s Newest Bombing Campaign, the Oncoming War With China and How to Avoid It

4d ago1:00:049,448 words
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Does the Iran war become a conflict with China that we can’t possibly win? Col. Lawrence Wilkerson on how we’re heading down that road. (00:00) China’s Role in the Iran War (12:34) Does the US Nee...

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Now there's a lot. Adi, Otis, for Al-A. Colonel, look, you didn't thank you so much for doing this.

I think most Americans understand this as a war between the United States and partnership

with Israel against Iran, but there of course a lot of other players acting on this drama. Maybe in ways that we don't perceive. China would be the biggest and potentially most threatening to our interest. What is China's role in this conflict? It's a role, I think, forced upon them at the moment not that they can't handle it.

They seem to be quite adaptable with regard to this very frenetic and indeterminate presidency and empire, but it's forced on them because they didn't think that this was going to happen in the way that it's happened, I think, that it's, say, this being the war of choice with Iran. And some things are happening in the war that are probably disturbing to them.

For example, the latest completed railroad and there are five base road initiative railroads was probably the most strategic one in many ways. It brings China's specific courts all the way around on land and then intended was up the Persian Gulf along the old route that we used to resupply the Soviet Union during World War II and eventually into the caucus and beyond caucuses and beyond.

And now we're bombing it. Israel and we are bombing that railroad. Now, of course, railroads don't get bombed very well. You could drop all the ordinance in the world. And that will get a bunch of people out there and repair them pretty quickly.

But nonetheless, it shows that there's something more to this war of choice. And perhaps even Trump knows about. I'm sure there are people in the Pentagon who know about it that are happening in the world

is basically ignorant of it.

Can you expand on that? There are things happening in the president's know about, but that some planners at the

Pentagon doubt was due, what would those things be?

Well, one of them is bombing that railroad. It just started recently with both the Israel and the United States making it a principal target. And one of the things they're trying to do, of course, and this is a hugely geo-strategic issues that most people don't. I'm not sure I understand it completely, but if you go back in time to earlier empires

when the real power cultural technological economic military in otherwise was in the east, you see one of the ways that those empires, roughly, defeated other empires by shifting maritime commerce to the land, because maritime commerce was simply becoming too expensive, they put the Portuguese empire out of business, for example. And what they did was they shifted along one of their routes, primary routes was this route,

China is now using to eventually go up the Persian Gulf and then the Azerbaijanar Minion Georgia, the Caucasus, along northward, marrying up with the other three base road initiatives. Railroads, which incidentally have been a dumb-rated seriously by the war in Ukraine.

Does that ring a bell with any budgeted strategically?

They're not emptying into Europe as they were intended to do. They've stopped pretty much. And what does that do? Well, basically those railroads mean that instead of two and a half to three days and very expensive maritime shipping for China's specific port produce, it's 16 hours into the

heart of Europe. That's a huge change. One that will travel out of commerce off the seas and will, to a certain extent, negate the Babel Mendeb, the straight-of-ormous, the Suez Mal, maybe even the Panama Canal. Although China has built that very, very luxurious state of the art port on the West Coast

of Peru, but that's looking, or the Pacific, and looking toward that aspect of commerce. So don't expect a lot of that to be going through the canal, even.

These railroads are a game changer in terms of commerce and think about this remote.

In terms of one of the United States' supposedly great strengths, it's maritime power. Because we won't need to police the season anymore. It'll all be going over the end. I think a lot of Americans are at a greatest advantage in understanding this, because

They lack a sense of the mechanics of commerce, products just appear, it's no...

And they lack a sense of geography, the idea that, you know, Iran, you could reach China

from Iran over land.

People, I think, lack the perspective of how exactly that would happen.

But clearly, the Pentagon understands these questions, right? So they're bombing that railroad for a reason which would be what do you think? Well, to set it back and to tell China we know what they're doing, and we don't like it. That route is such a serious threat in and of itself, because of what you look at in terms of commerce during the period immediately prior to World War II, when Britain and the

United States sneaked into Iran, and I mean that, we sneaked in there. They were Nazi sympathizers at the time, and we built a road and we flanked it with security. And at that time, the Iranians couldn't challenge it very much. And we shipped all manner of goods up that road into the belly of the Soviet Union.

Stalingrow would have never held out without that supply route.

Hundreds of thousands of trucks and wheel vehicles and other implements of war went up that route. It was second only to romance, can in terms of strategic effect. It was more important than romance. How many Americans even know that? How many Americans even knew that at the time?

Right. So it's a real game changer in terms of the United States. If it has to do anything about China viscerally, if it has to go to war with China, if

it has to fight them, it's essential that we control these lines of communication and we're

not. So what's the Chinese perspective on this? As it has been ever since the Deng Xiaoping started capitalism with Chinese characteristics. We do not want to war. We will beat you without a war.

We are going to be, you're technologically, we're going to be, you're going to be culturally, we're going to beat you militarily, we're going to beat you every dimension of power that you can imagine. And this latest e-dick by Xi Jinping, which the American press is completely missed as far as I can tell, he put out the latest in a series of e-dicks that have come from Chinese

premieres from Deng Xiaoping on, who's in town was a little bit of an aberration, but that's one reason they got rid of him. But Xi Jinping has been right in there. And this latest one says, we are essentially triumphant in every element of global power, but one.

Now, we're going to take on that one. And that one is financial control. And that means the remaining being substituted to the dollar and everything from all sales to your name. It will become the transactional and reserve currency.

Already is to a minute to a great extent for about 40% of the world. They're going to shoot for 60% to 70% of the world. They're going to drive the Bretton with system back where it came from. They're going to eliminate swift, they're going to eliminate our ability to sanction countries. That's one of their major purposes and that's an altruistic purpose for them.

They think eliminating our ability to put sanctions on other countries in the world through

which since the turn of this century, we have killed 38 million people.

Mostly men, women and children, 38 million people. That rival Stalin's purges Mao Sittong's culture revolution. And almost rivals Hitler in terms of the people that he killed directly in World War II, not the whole war with 100 million casualties, but certainly the people he killed directly. So we're looking at the United States and China looks at us this way.

Is having done that damage in the world with our financial system which allowed us to put primary and secondary sanctions on 30% of the world. So to Ophac and see how many countries we have under sanction, it's incredible. And these sanctions kill men, women and children over time. We killed 500,000 in Sodom and Sam's Iraq when we had this sanctions on him.

Madeline Albright said when she was confronted with that statistic, so what? It was worth it. Madeline want to join Hillary in the world of Crete and she did. This is a serious issue for China and they want to stop it. Here's something that thieves count on security cameras usually stop where Wi-Fi stops, right?

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It strikes me that once the U.S. government, O-FAC, loses the ability to sanction other countries, it will have only the power to sanction American citizens for disobedience with programmable digital currency and will do something very similar to us. That does seem like natural follow-all. Well, it does seem like the things you do to your opponents abroad will be done to your

own citizens by the same government. That seems like a pretty consistent lesson of history. That's why Empire is so bad, because we're bad for your own population. But I wonder, like, China, we see our competition with China in primarily military terms.

I think that's what we talk about in public, and whenever we talk about the relative

size of the economies, it's like how many aircraft carriers do they have? But that's new. That's new. In my administration, my administration, in George W. Bush's administration, Column Powell was given his head only one major international issue, and that was China.

And I was there when George W. Bush said, "It's important that the Walmart did to stay away from it," and he meant that. He meant that we were in strategic economic competition with China, and he didn't mind that, because he thought we were better than they were at capitalism, and we should certainly hold our head up in the world in that regard.

So he gave Column Powell his head, and Powell was constantly, constantly, thwarting the vice-president in those terms, because Don Oronsell and Dick Cheney wanted a hot war or a cold war that had occurred to latter with China, and Bush didn't want it.

So he turned Column loose on Taiwan in particular, and wound up at the end of his first term

having to reputeiate Cheney beyond publicly, and tell him to shut up about his independence referendum, and get off that kick, because he knew that was a red line with Beijing.

So that's the last president, I think, we had who understood fundamentally this economic

relationship and thought that we could wage it with them, and at least tie them if not win. The impulse to go to war with China, like in exchange for ballistic missiles, at least,

Where does that come from?

Why would you want that?

Why would Dick Cheney and Rumsfeld and so many others be advocating for that?

I don't think they really wanted a hot war, but the thing that scared me and scared Column

Powell too, is that they seemed to be willing to accept it if they couldn't get the cold war. But what they really wanted was a replacement for the cold war that would put the same pressures on us that the cold war did, and that would be good in their sense. Cheney occasionally would reveal things like a statement, we don't want people to love

us, we don't want people to fear us, and that was okay, but it didn't go over that big with, I think, a genuine Christian, I mean, genuine Christian, a sermon on the Mount type of Christian, that George W. Bush was, and so in that sense, that pushed him over in the Powell's camp. But they wanted that cold war for sure because they thought judging from their experience

for their whole lives virtually, that was the only way to keep the Empire in power and

in check domestically and internationally, is to have that huge pressure on them all the time, and it was also the only way for Hilbert and Lockheed Martin and those to others whom they loved and don't love to make a lot of money. But what do you mean, when you say a cold war would be the only way to keep the Empire together internally, what does that mean?

You need an external enemy, if you've ever read my year to young, there was an argument over whether it was a fanciful parody from somebody at the New Yorker or was it a serious study? It was called the report from Iron Mountain. It was a pamphlet, Lyndon Johnson, when he said it, when he read it, said, told his

staff to get revved, you know, ban it, it didn't happen, the New York Times picked up on it, it went viral, two issues were put out, they in that report, which many thought really was response to Kennedy's June speech at American University, they said impossible. In that report, they went through all the Cold War parameters and such, and they said

impossible, you can never have peace.

The only way an Empire like the United States of America can survive is to have a constant

threat. It must have a threat in order to survive. They did say at the end that if you could dream up some other way of creating the same kind of pressure that that sort of threat did, and they even said religion used to do that. The monarchs, the prince, the prelate, they used to threaten the people with God, and that

that pretty much kept them in line, you're going to burn in hell if you don't do what I tell you to do. That sort of thing. The cork model, looking at the Muslims and saying repent, become a Christian, or I'll cut your throat, and that's what he did if they didn't repent many of them repented.

You could have that, but they thought that was passe, that that kind of threat wouldn't do the sort of thing that an actual state threat would do. So their conclusion was, Kennedy was nuts, you needed that kind of external threat to keep

a country as variegated, as diverse, and as ultimately powerful as America was.

In fact, you needed that kind of threat. To keep your own citizens obedient? Yes, very much so. That's a part of it too. To keep them toe in the line and to keep them paying their taxes and everything that you

do in a state that once was a republic and now is an empire. This is not all related to why I asked you to have this conversation, but I can't resist. Who do you think did kill Kennedy? I'm fairly certain after a lot of study, I'm a hunter, I know weapons fairly will, I know that weapon that Lee Harvey Oswald wielded, no way it shot John Kennedy and killed him.

I don't even think he could hit him from there, you know the FBI guy, the expert, tried with that very weapon three times to simulate the Zapruder film intervals and get that many rounds off, even get them off, not just accurately, he couldn't do it. I think it was a combination of CIA, mafia, and probably Pentagon, and I don't mean organizationally, but I mean dissenters in all three of those groups.

And the motive would be, what, they thought, especially with what he had done with regard to JF with regard to Cuba in October '62 and then the speech in June, June 10th, I think of 1963 at American University, that he was serious, he was serious and his brother was

Serious with regard to the mafia and policing it up, but Kennedy himself, the...

was serious about seeking first rapprochement with the Soviet Union, Cuba had really and

Berlin too, Berlin was a more serious crisis in the hot summer of '61 than Cuba was. Cuba was 13 days packed into, you know, dynamism in the U.N. and everything, yes. And we thought it was serious, well Berlin was strategic for the Russians. If the GDP are disappeared and it was disappearing at about 10,000 citizens a week, think of that for a minute, that we helped them build the wall, we actually helped them build

that wall. When I say helped, I mean, our tanks, our machine guns, oversaw the party's building the wall to prevent it from anyone from interfering with them.

We let them build the wall because that was the only way to stanch that flow out of the

GDP are, he's Germany, and that was strategic for the Russians.

So that was a much more serious crisis, but he'd gone through both of those and he knew how close we'd come to an exchange of nuclear weapons and he wanted an end of that. And they thought this was, if from a federal wishes and even dangerous wishes, they thought that Soviets would pull a trick on us, you know, all the things you usually throw out there when you don't trust your enemy.

And they were willing to take him out in order to prevent that from happening. And they were mad at him for the Bay of Pigs. Where do you think Jack Ruby came from? They found him somewhere. I was at Baylor University at that time, and I remember when the announcement was made, I was absolutely stunned.

Me and my roommate could barely talk for about a half an hour that President's just been shot not too far from us. We were in wake up and then we were on the TV and we watched this guy walk up to Ruby and shoot him right there. And we, at that moment, Bob and I said to ourselves, this stinks, this really stinks.

Yeah. When the lone gunman kills the lone gunman, they're probably not lone gunman. He's got it. You think about Charlie Kirk, for example, and what's happening right now with that assassination, which I can't even tell you what's happening. I don't even know the FBI has been so unfortunate coming, but I know, I told you, I'm a weapons guy. That did not happen the way they're saying it happened. And I doubt very seriously

in that guy stuck on 306 down his pants leg and walked away. Cost of living is already making it hard to live here, and it's not getting any better. Unfortunately, it's likely to get worse, and a lot of Americans fill the gap with credit cards, not just for fancy dinners, but to cover things like groceries and bills. That is a disastrous incident. It's understandable, but don't go down that road, because there is a tax in effect

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full as Charlie's family and the rest of us deserve. I mean, there's no question about that. So, and I'm sorry to get you sidetracked, but you're obviously really knowledgeable and I hope you'll come back, by the way, at some point. But back to China. So the United States is, and with Israel, blowing up Chinese built infrastructure. So that seems like a big step. And it seems like in so doing, you could risk Chinese further participation in this conflict. Are

we risking that?

I think we are. We're not at the cusp, yeah. I don't think. I'm waiting to see just exactly

how we deal with all the Chinese shipping. That would be, I think, a deal breaker. And perhaps get China more infuriated and maybe even doing more than she's already doing. But I know too. I've been in the central party school, one of the few Americans who had. I've been in China since 1984 and almost every other year or so. And I've done simulations and Beijing with the Chinese. In fact, I did one in 2009 that was called, are you ready

for this? The all of their shrubsion exercise. We had everybody there, we had Marad, we had

AIG, we had Lloyds of London, we had all the countries involved.

that time about eight million barrels per day, production capacity. And West Texas intermediate

rent crude went to $200, almost over night, shipers wouldn't ship insurers wouldn't ensure.

And of course, everyone in the room, including the Chinese, this was very instructive. But this was 2009 agreed to allow the United States Navy and the group of five led by Singapore with their little Navy, about one ship per country. Police, the straight of Malacca, because that's where we were threatening another act and let the United States Navy almost exclusively clear the straight of the removes and fix the situation at Ross Tanura. And all it took

at that time because we were much bigger. We put ships in there, we put an aircraft carrier not too much different from Lincoln right now. And that calm things down and people began to realize that if there were problems, further problems, because this was a terrorist attack on Ross Tanura that we postulated, if things were to get out of hand again, the United States Navy was there and other Allied Navy's were there too, so it calmed down and oil went down again.

But very, very dicey moment, it was so dicey on the game floor cover. I've never seen this before,

and I've done hundreds of simulations. The Chinese actually went the move to shift all reserves around the world to take care of this problem, so there wouldn't be a real global depression developed. Had to go back to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and consult before they could come back to the game floor and make a decision. Wow. Chance Freeman, Ambassador Chas Freeman, was there with us? And at breakfast of next day, they didn't know Chas was fluent in Mandarin. I couldn't believe

that, but they didn't. They're intelligence and fail them on that. So we're at breakfast, and I said, "Chas, what was said?" And he told me what was said. It was interesting. I mean, they were actually seriously worried about making a decision that took oil at that moment away from China and say gave it to Korea or gave it to some other country like Japan that needed it more desperately

than they did, because that's what we did for a time. We divided the oil flows up around the world,

so they'd be more economic, and more helpful the countries that were being heard. That was the last time I saw a real camaraderie between, I think that's fair term to use, too, between Chinese, diplomats, Chinese. We knew that probably 10% of the Chinese delegation was Intel. ours was, too. But that was the last time I saw comedy, and I saw willingness to work together in a significant way, and that was a dicey situation, a very dicey on the game floor.

How does it get reopened now, do you think? I think it's going to have to be the force of the reality of what we're doing to the globe. I'm looking very closely at economic analyses that tell me by the end of June, if we're not back to reasonable shipping again, we'll be certainly in recession, global recession, and if we go to the end of August, we might be in global depression. And Putin and Trump can say over and over again that we have plenty of LNG and plenty of oil

and everything, it doesn't matter. You're not going to survive in that kind of a parking sense.

Economically, you're going to crash too. So we would be looking, I think, not only that coming to

impact us, and at the same time, our incredible debt coupled with the fact that Xi Jinping would

probably accelerate the replacement of the dollar would remain because it would be a moment to do it. Yeah. So at that point, I mean, you can see chaos, right? I mean, I mean, right, I'm the LNGs, the Roosevelt administration went to keep the country stable, including authoritarian LNGs. I mean, that was their single mind obsession. Like a depression means people get restive and scary. I just read the history of the, I didn't even know it existed in the historian,

lives in false shirts. He's an old dude. He gave me a copy of it. Almost, I almost dropped it. It's so thick. It's called recalled, but civilian conservation cool. Yeah. It's a wonderful book. It's just full of pictures. But you, you see what Roosevelt had to do. And the fact that ultimately he had to order the army in to do that, who principally, the army became the ingredient of the CCC that made it work. When who ran it, everyone forgets to ran the CCC. Yes, my partner.

Yeah. Yeah. But my partner was, my partner was an interesting character in Roosevelt administration.

More than once FDR said, things that made anyone around even realize he knew ...

Doug McCarthor was in every sense of the term. And after the bonus marchers and McCarthor's attempt to kill them, I was in power with his aid at that time. And you see Eisenhower,

some of the pictures in this book is the matter of fact. I think FDR had a real weather eye from

McCarthor, but he made a huge mistake. And he made it because he was frightened of him.

He should never have divided command in the Pacific. It cost a hundred thousand American casualties

between them. It's in McCarthor. But McCarthor in charge, if you've got to do that, but no stark in King would let him. So he had to compensate stark in King and the Navy and give them the Central Pacific, McCarthor the South West Pacific. We had a bloody strategy in the center, a bloody strategy. We didn't need to take half of those islands. McCarthor showed us what to do. You just bypass them and let them with her. You know exactly. You don't need to act them. But we attacked them

in the Central Pacific. What do you think Israel will do? And we'll have to do if it come June or July or August when the economic effects become impossible to ignore dangerous to everybody regimes around the world, teeter and fall in the face of recession and depression. And the United States says, you know, we're just we're out. That leaves the Iranian regime in charge really in charge and more powerful than it was on a, you know, February 27th.

Can Israel live with that? I think not. And you probably know what I think about the Jewish state

of Israel. I don't think it has a long, real life. I don't think it can survive in the little box because the original conception was a safe haven and it's anything but a safe haven. And that's been demonstrated markedly to all of its Jewish citizens. Many of them have left. And yeah, probably more would have left if nothing happened. We'd let them. So I think it can survive as a democracy, a true democracy that is to say Palestinian Arabs,

Christians, everyone living there, and Jews living there with them. And I don't buy the power of the womb that I don't think that would be so overwhelming, quick, that you couldn't adjust the democracy to be a real democracy, even if the Jewish citizens of it suddenly became a minority. Or I don't think it would be suddenly, as I said, I think it'd be over time, but they don't want to do that. And so I think they're ceiling their own demise as a state at all in the Levant.

The democratic or otherwise. And so you're right. It's a dangerous situation. And what we're doing in Lebanon right now is just uncomfortable. West Bank is bad enough. But Lebanon, we're killing two or three hundred civilians about every 48 or 96 hours. And they're just civilians. We're bombing truck cleaners. We're bombing bars. We're bombing restaurants. We're bombing hotels.

We, I say, I always say we because Israel couldn't do it without us. And it's, we built

the most expensive, largest embassy in the world. Where do we build it? We built it and they root. Why do we do that? Well, it didn't for diplomacy. We built it there because it's a haven for massodia, my six, and C.A.A. And because we plan on, in that center, put peace in the Eastern Mediterranean, mounting our guns against China. And Russia too, if we have to. But we don't have any respect for Lebanon. Lebanon could disparate more more in our embassy. It'd still be there,

fortified to the hill, of course. We just don't care anymore. And we're last up with the wrong people in Lebanon. We always have been, really. Who are the right people in Lebanon? The right people were the people that Hassan Nasrallah was trying to introduce to the political situation. Seeth is a motoristic angle and become the politician in Lebanon who would finally after years and years consolidate the government and have a government that the majority of Lebanese could

support. And Netanyahu, what did Netanyahu do? Of course, that's what he kills the people he needs.

We pray that the war with Iran ends immediately, but the truth is it doesn't seem to be.

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So, I mean, what is Israel's goal in Lebanon? Israeli say, I don't know if it's true, but the idea is just stretched to breaking, can't possibly occupy southern Lebanon,

much less, you know, be root all the way down. So, like, what is the point of this?

I've always thought that Israel's real policies and I've been associated with this for 50 years,

with respect to Lebanon was demolishing periodically its economic capacity. Remember, Lebanon way back there was the pearl of the eastern Mediterranean. Oh, yes. It's a place for everybody wanted to go, pay root was beautiful, and Israel then came along, and Israel became on our dollar to a certain extent, a very capitalistic predatory capitalistic and successful in that regard. Economy and wanted to stay that way and even wanted to grow and grow and bring in other people

to that economy under the Jewish writ, of course. But nonetheless, come in, Abraham is a core,

Abraham, of course, being one latest example, and so they had to take Lebanon down a peg every

time. If you go back and examine those bombing campaigns, even the 82 invasion when they were really after PLO and our thought, they bombed the bejesus out of the economic structure of Lebanon. It's the time we military officers say, why are they doing that? That's just making them hate them. Why are they doing that? They don't need to do that. And you know, stupid us, we figured it out after about two or three iterations, they're bombing. They all out of their economic might.

So they can't, you know, 10 years to get back up again, then they bomb them again.

That's very, very dark. I mean, and we paid for it. So what do you, I mean, President Trump

didn't explain really why he began this war other than to say Iran can't have a new, which is not an adequate explanation. What do you think the real motive was in starting a war

with Iran? I think that New York Times piece, as much as I hate to praise the great lady,

these days, was probably fairly accurate. I think most of his advisors, the principal ones anyway, were saying no, or, you know, arguing negatively. And that's in Yahoo persuaded him to do it. Now, why did he listen to Netanyahu when everyone else, the aunts, probably everyone, but Higgsia, was at least somewhat opposed, if not strongly opposed, which I'm told with some reliable information that came was the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and others on the

military in the military. It was persuasive because Netanyahu said it, and I can't tell you whether it was Mary Hamilton's millions, or Trump's, I don't think he's got a real high regard for being Netanyahu in terms of loving him. But something there told him indicated to him that he needed to go against all of his advisors and follow Netanyahu's recommended course of action, which, of course,

I think is disastrous. And yet he did. Does America's relationship with Israel

change after this is over? I don't see how it can remain the same with a new president who's got to pick up on what's happening with the American people. Not least of which caused by Charlie Kirk, what's happening with American people even in the poor of manga, under 40 in particular, and under 20 on college campuses, and nice like that, generally, is don't like Israel, period, even I could use it stronger word than don't like. Why do you connect that to Charlie Kirk?

Because I think he was changing his mind, and it was obvious he was changing his mind about being so attached to Israel, both in terms of U.S. security and in terms of just the American people. I think he was getting to realize that it was poisonous, and that was dangerous. I don't for a minute think that we might not find out down the road, something about his assassination that resembles Kennedy's, and Martin Luther King's and others have been shot in our country,

which is for people overseas, sometimes who might talk to him frequently now, but used to talk to a lot, like in France and England and Germany. They don't understand why we kill people with the right, we kill people, you know,

It's the American I say, wait a minute, wait a minute, and they'll tick them ...

All the way back to Roosevelt, because they thought they got rid of him as Vice President,

and all of a sudden, McKinley's killed. They'll tick those things off all the way back to Lincoln, and they'll say, you're pretty violent country, you assassinate people quite frequently. So it's, I've had a very similar experience. In every country I've ever been to than this one, they don't buy it, but I want, I mean, but you think that's, that's correct. It's pretty obvious that Lone Gunman seemed to kill people who were a challenge to entrench power, and maybe that's

on an accident. Yes, more often than not, I think it's not an accident. I just, if you go back and

you look at any of the empires of all, but particularly the Eastern and Western Roman Empire,

the Eastern figured it out by the time it came, the Byzantine Empire, and Constantinople turned around on the then ruling entities, adaptation of Christianity, and meld out a little bit. That famous period there probably extended their life by years. It's not decades and generations. If you look at those people at the head of those groups, whether it's like Mary Beards in New Book, the 12 Seasers, Soutonius's 12 Seasers between Julius crossing the Rubicon

and walking decidedly into assassination, even though he was born multiple times, should have known, walks in the Senate, he's assassinated and then Octavian, and the Civil War start, and then Octavian becomes Augustus, and consolidates the empire and Roman Republic is gone, gone, totally gone. And you look at the period that she writes about those 12 Seasers, roughly between Julius Caesar and Soutonius, and you see the depravity. You see Epstein all through it, you know,

and you understand what that does to you. Well, from since 45 arguably, with the co-war as a check on us, and then since the end of the co-war with no check whatsoever, we've turned into that

version of the Western Roman Empire. It's distressing to see it. Can I ask you a bigger question?

I remember when I was much younger, and I would run into guys, you know, you're aged, you'd

served at, you know, the highest levels of government in Washington, and they were always much more

open to the existence of conspiracies. And I just wonder if, you know, we'd deride conspiracy theories, but the people who seem to believe in them the most are also the most knowledgeable. Have you have you noticed that? I have noticed that. Yes, and the people who could talk about the most explicitly and carefully in chambers, as it were. Yes, they're those people's ones. That's so interesting. So when you were, I don't know, 30, you probably didn't believe that that stuff was real.

I assumed. I did not. I had great faith in my country, great faith in people like George Washington, and Abraham Lincoln, and Thomas Jefferson, and I host some others. I knew they were flawed, but I had great faith in their building power, and in their faith in what they built. I can't say that anymore. I can't say that anymore. And I can even, particularly with Jefferson, I can even, however, use the quoting to me all the time, because he'd love Jefferson's

inaugural addresses. He would pick out pieces. And like pieces like, I know I shall leave this office much more sugary than I entered it. You know, that sort of thing. Yes, I know I won't survive. My reputation won't survive. Which is one reason my power all decided in 1995, not to run for president. He essentially said, I understand what Jefferson meant, and I'm not willing to suffer it. Anyway, it's been, you know, I'm 81 now, and I got to say in the years since I entered

in 1993, arguably, or even 89, when I was with him when he was chairman, the highest realms of American power was exposed to that power. I have really become ascended about our ability even to survive much longer in a way that is anything like our past. What do you think the future holds? Like 10 years out? What will we be looking at? I'm really worried about AI. I'm really worried about it. I don't know if he saw that piece the other day by the gentleman I forget his name

now from Cambridge, I believe, who sold some of his AI development. He sort of the open hammer

of the AI movement to Google, and he said he was on his bench outside his lab or something, and

All of a sudden his cell phone rang, and it was his AI.

an epiphany right there on the bench. This is dangerous what we're doing. Do you have a clear

picture of what some of the effects might be? Well, I'm seeing the effects already on young people

whom I stay in contact with at GW and GW and women married. I probably had roughly 600 students over the 16 years I taught, and they a lot of them stay in contact with me. One of them was the EA to Mark Kerney, Kerney, and when Mark ran and was elected in Canada, he got shifted to another guy by Mark, and I said, "Well, who are you working for now?" And he said, Mike Bloomberg. So I've stood it all over the place, and they stay in touch with me, and they reflect the same angst I have,

but in a much more visceral way because it's their future, it's their life, and they're extremely worried about AI. Because they think it will eliminate their jobs or eliminate human autonomy. That's part of it, but the latter is the bigger part of it, and there's also a component of it that there's no way we're going to survive with that in our midst. Because you're a human autonomy business is probably as good a description of it as anything else, but there are a couple

of them who think we're going to wind up huge conflict between AI-generated AI-led AI

whatever robots and ourselves. And I'm one who has always read and watched science fiction,

because more often than not, there's something in that HG Wells piece or that Lucas piece or whatever Star Trek Picker Video Adaptation that's true. That's going to come about. And I see, and I think they see too, because there are much more visual video-oriented generation than I was. I was mostly the written word-oriented generation. They see that too. They see some of the science fiction that's been most dower, most dower coming about. Is there anyone to stop it? That's the question of the

hour, I think, with regard to it, and robotics too? Are we going to be able to manage it?

There was a gentleman not too long ago who made a statement. I think he was a NASA scientist.

We have been given incredible powers. We have been given incredible riches, and he was referring

to the United States. We have also been given wisdom. The question in the future is going to be, will we use it or will we be overcome? I think that's a huge question, and I don't, I don't count myself in the camp of those who think it's impossible to eliminate the human race. It is not impossible. Nuclear weapons, the newest technology, and the work, no empire, and all of 5,000 years of empires has ever possessed the technological means to destroy itself and others

around it. None, not a single one. And to think that human nature will allow us to get through a

demise of empire without ultimately trying that method to save it, I think is wishful thinking.

And we're at that point right now because we're looking at the end of the American Empire looking at an actual threat to Israel. I mean, you just described it. There is an actual threat for the

first time in a long time. Greatest threat, right? And that's a nuclear armed power. And we're at that

point, as you well know, without a single treaty. They're all gone now. Every single one from the ABM treaty all the way to new start, gone, no treaties. So do you think that this administration can navigate a moment this fraught without either using or allowing its partner in this to use nuclear weapons? I'm not given confidence by a man who argues with the Pope and dresses up as Jesus Christ, as Jesus Christ for an ad. I mean, I know he probably didn't do that intentionally,

but he allowed it to happen. And this argument with Leo is just absurd. How would you interpret that? Well, I think he's backing up from it a bit. I wish he'd

Back up a little more abruptly and a little more apologetically, but it's done.

And done at a moment when Leo, the first Augustinian, is headed for Africa to go to Augustus's

place and sort of celebrate. I mean, it just didn't make it was bad timing and it was bad judo all around

to do that. And I know from my own experience, and as I said, seven decades of sentient experience anyway, that we've had an effort in this country for a long, long time, very soto-voky, if you will, under the table, to create an American Catholic church and have our own Pope. And I remember when Leo's rise was first announced when his selection was announced, I said, "Ooh, that'll put us stop to that because an American is now the Pope in Rome, but I didn't think long enough." That's not

what they want. They want an American Pope and they want an American Catholic church. Now right now,

I know it's in minority of Catholics, but it is a powerful minority of Catholics, and they've been

around for at least a hundred years, not very successfully around, but nonetheless, they've pursued that for a long time. Why would people, and pardon my ignorance as a birthright Protestant,

I wasn't even aware of any of this, why would people want an American Catholic church?

Didn't they wouldn't have to take any instructions of all from Rome? None at all. Rome would just be out there. There wouldn't be any real power of the Pope in Rome. And I suspect, electronically, they tried to divorce that Pope from the idea of being from God. Huh, are there, is there like an ideological motivation or theological motivation? I think it's all power. I do. I really do. I think people who have come out of great

awakenings, and I, by the way, think this is our fourth one. Most historians won't go with me yet, but I bet you in 10 or 20 years they will look back on this period, and they will call it a great awakening, just like they did the one that produced prohibition and an amendment to the constitution

to prohibit alcohol and an amendment to very send it. Very damaging periods in our history,

whether it was burning witches or prohibition. That really, that prohibition really generated the momentum for organized crime, alcohol was the first organized criminal, if you will. So, their dangerous periods, and if we get out of this one without any more danger, I mean, hexeth is holding, I got it yesterday. I couldn't believe it. I just couldn't believe that this had developed. OSW protocol fair services have been going on every week for 13 months.

And always with the same line, general officers and admirals will have reserve seats in the

front rows. All else will sit elsewhere. No one is allowed to come in, but those invited. It's all on the invitation. This is not very American. This is uncommonly un-American, really. The mixed religion and the military, the way Hexeth is doing it. It's very dangerous. And he's also preacher packing, we used to say in South Carolina, putting the rotten strawberries on the bottom and the fresh strawberries on the top. The ranks. He's making sure very carefully

that he's eliminating flag and ammo officers who are or might be opposed to the military becoming a defender of Christianity as the national religion. And he's doing the what we're ranks two and he's doing them by doing such things as the seating, Congress's limits on mental category four recruits. They're think McNamara's 100,000 if you will. They can't even read their name on a guard roster. They usually come from the mountains of West Virginia or from the interior of

Oklahoma or by state of South Carolina or Alabama. Hate to blame those states, but unless they produce these people that are alarming rate. And he's getting them in at the tune, Congress put a 4% cap on it. Well, he got 11% the last time around. The Inspector General brave man he went over and told the Congress. And what Hexeth told the Congress when they called him over to testify was, well, we created a school within the army. This is the army. And I school taught them how to pass the

entrance exam. You and I what they did, they taught the test. And so then they gave them the test again and all of a sudden they left up into mental category four. And 7% of them did that,

We didn't exceed your cap.

taking people in who are what shall I say. Well, a good example of it, that's very, very illustrative,

is the 50 or 60 that go out of basic training into the river there for Jackson and get baptized

in the name of Jesus Christ and are told by the chaplain when they rise from the water that they are soldiers for Christ. What Hexeth wants is even the oath changed from to the constitution,

the oath should be to Jesus Christ. But I mean, the the gospels don't provide any

basis for that theology at all. I mean, the sermon on the Mount would preclude like a lot of things the US military are doing right now and Iran. So I guess my concern would be the corruption of the gospels by this. Absolutely. And talk about corruption, Franklin Graham and his center courtyard of the Pentagon, where I've been a number of times for ceremonies with old secretaries of defense, once escorted McNamara in there, had a good talk with him about Vietnam as I escort

you to give me. And he was very contrite. He was actually contrite as we walked in. I was a Lieutenant Colonel at the time. Billy Graham or Franklin Graham, Billy Graham's son of course, and Billy Graham must be rolling in his grave because I knew him. He was not this way. Franklin Graham gave a sermon for Hexeth on those grounds that would make Ted Cruz happy. He resurrected all the stuff

Cruz was talking about in the interview with you. I believe in from Genesis and talked about how

you had to sometimes kill everything in sight, men, women, children, and so forth. In the center courtyard of the Pentagon. That's like blasphemy. It seems to me. It is something too. I mean, I'm a Christian, but I'm not that kind of Christian. Yeah. Well, I don't think there is that kind of

Christian. It's my view. What an amazing, unexpected conversation. I'm sorry to take you on

all these different tangents. I hope you will come back because the scope of your thinking and the grasp of history that you have is amazing. So I appreciate it. Colonel Wilkins, thank you very much. Well, I appreciate the opportunity. And I must say I'm impressed with your stick. Well, not really,

but I, but I'm interested. I think it matters. I watch a lot of your interviews. And I'm impressed

with what, particularly when you do things like what you do with Ted Cruz. Well, that was easy. It's a very odd question. It's a very idea that I consult Genesis for national security decision making. Just drove me back against the wall. I couldn't believe that. Especially when he didn't know it was in Genesis. Anyway, thank you very much. Great to talk to you. Thank you. Take care.

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