Pink Floyd’s Roger Waters on 9/11, JFK, Gaza, and Why the Israel Lobby Is Trying to Destroy Him

I was in Island Studios in London, making a record.

“And what did I think? I thought, "Can I use the effort?" Yes, you may. I thought, "Fuck me. What the kick is somebody turned to DV on?" So we stopped working almost immediately.”

And I almost immediately called my then wife, Laurie, who was in New York at the time. And I was on the phone with her for the next two hours, sort of watching it develop and unfold before our very eyes. And a state of shock like everyone was all over the world. What did I think? I mean, that's a very long and complicated answer to that, because I haven't stopped thinking ever since, really, and it was 25 years ago.

I could actually, you know, I wrote something down, but I know part of what there's one sentence in what I wrote down here was that I thought to myself,

"If this isn't attacked by foreign people on the United States of America, will the American people notice that some people are pissed off?" Yes, with the American foreign policy and that this is a result of it. And I did think that. And in a way, that was the only positive thing I could think was, "Maybe, maybe, now the wars come home."

Now it's, you know, now something has happened on American soil, maybe. And it didn't happen, and I was surprised, which shows how naive I was, I guess.

“That nobody even ever started to think that, or to allow that to color what happened afterwards, so that's how it felt to me.”

Am I making any sense? You're making a lot of sense, and I had a similar thought at the time, which is not to obviously to justify it or any active violence, but cause an effect is real. Yeah, yeah. I had the same thought, and I had a huge contract on with my employer over at CNN at the time, because I made that point, and they attacked me for it. Works, price, you know, I'm surprised. But I kept working there to my shame. But anyway, then there was the investigation into 9/11, the 9/11 commission, which was in panel, but then President George W. Bush, headed by guy called Phillips Zeleco, and it produced a report, which was then bound into a book.

You could buy the bookstore. Did you assess that? What did you think of the agreement? I did not read that book. I could face. I did wonder why there wasn't a more thorough investigation, or any real investigation into what actually happened, because in the aftermath of it, we all watched the same images again, and again, and again, and it became evident. Well, not necessarily evident, but it looked likely. The whole story of controlled demolitions of buildings came up very quickly, not least, because building 7, which was obviously a controlled demolition.

It's collapsed, was announced on the BBC in England half an hour before it happened. That's a sign that it's not entirely organic, which we're watching. Exactly. You know, and we could laugh about it, but we can't, because it's too tragic.

“But it was quite clear from the very beginning that the old bin Laden got together with some terrorist Arabs, and they've done this, and isn't it all fallen?”

Now let's start World War III. There was more to the whole thing than Met the I. And I, to my eternal shame, had misgivings that I didn't immediately express about what had actually happened, because the atmosphere was appalling around the time that if you did express any misgivings at all, about the result of the 9/11 inquiry, you were labeled a madman. And you would lose any voice that you had about any subject on earth forever, just by questioning it.

Yes, but, and I know this is part of the reason that you and I are having this conversation today, because of my friend Matt.

Campbell is, um, that was, that was, it was a terrible mistake that the questions never got to any court of law, or until any, any plays where you could actually listen to the evidence and look at the evidence and try and figure out why actually happened, if I could put it like that.

“Who is Matt Campbell for people unfamiliar? Okay, Matt Campbell is an Englishman, and he's been involved since the day it happened, because his brother, Jeffrey Campbell, was in one of the twin towers, and was killed on the day it happened.”

And eventually there was a cursory inquest into his death, which listened to no evidence about anything and didn't come up with any answers.

So, the inquest said that it was killed by terrorists on the 11th of September 2001, and that's the end of the story, and there are no more questions to be answered, and Matt Campbell to his eternal credit has, for the 25 years since then, tried to get a proper inquest into his brother's death.

“And it is law in the UK where I'm from, that a citizen is allowed, if there's anything unusual at all about the death of any person, you're allowed to demand an inquest.”

I hear judicial inquiry into why the person died, who was responsible and so on and so forth, and he is still trying to get that right for his brother, Jeff now. He's managed to get it all the way to the Supreme Court, it's been turned down by several British attorney generals who said, "We're not reopening any inquest you can't do it." But that's unlawful, this is completely against all the laws of the land in England. You don't have inquests in North America, but we do, and they're kind of important. So, he's managed to get a hearing in the Supreme Court in England on October 14th and 15th, coming up this year, to try and persuade the Supreme Court to count him on the attorney generals.

The generals decision not to allow an inquest, this will mean that evidence can be heard for the first time in a court of law anywhere in the world.

There hasn't been one in America, and there hasn't been one. I didn't realize that, how can that be? How can it be what? The 3000 people die, the investigation, the official investigation into it is revealed as false.

“The 9/11 Commission report was written before the inquest, into what happened at 9/11, so it's fake, Philip Zellico did that, we know that, and yet there's been no legal inquiry into it, since that?”

Which is why I'm supporting Matt Campbell, which I am. And why, if we could, on this program, there is a crowd funder as well. I've given him a lot of money in order to fight this case, but we need about twice. I've already given him 100 grand. We need about that much again, so if there's anybody out there, we should give them the, if you wouldn't mind. Oh, I'd be happy to, and his name is Matt Campbell. Of course, I didn't write it down. But we can find it, and we can, and it can be found, he's Matt Campbell, 9/11, and you've given him 100 grand in order to force the inquest into this.

Now, in order to pay the lawyers who are representing him and his brother before the Supreme Court in England on the 14th and 15th of October, if they are successful, and the Supreme Court overturns the decision by the attorney general, not to proceed, then there will be an inquest, which will be a separate occasion. But that will give you and me and all the people all over the world who are interested to know what actually happened on September the 11th, 2001 in New York. So from what would be the just of what was the given justification for not allowing an inquest into 9/11 to know what was the excuse. Everybody knows what it's like to get stuck at the airport on a road trip and feel desperately hungry, and that can get ugly because there's a lot of crap for sale at airports we can tell you firsthand.

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“I think the powers that they have decided that would be inconvenient for them. The buildings, one and two world trade sciences, one and two and building seven.”

Given all the evidence that exists and there's an awful lot, not just of eyewitness testimony, but the films. If you look at the film of the North Tag collapsing, you can see all the explosions in the controlled demolition of that building.

Happening in front of your very eyes and there is no other explanation as to how the North Tag of the world trade center fell down.

It didn't fall down because it was burning aircraft fluid or because an airplane flew into it. It fell down because it was demolished and the question is, who placed the explosives in it? Who pressed the button, who demolished the world trade center and building seven and the cell tower? Who did it and why? And those are the questions that we need a proper judicial inquiry to find answers to. It'll be very inconvenient to lots of people not least the security come. I think they would call secure a cat or something who did all the security in the building because if this is true that they were controlled demolitions, that must have meant that there were people working in there putting nanothermite or whatever the explosives were that brought the buildings down.

In the evenings, when the workers weren't there, behind everybody's back, it's a huge, huge operation must have been known by hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people.

Funnily enough, Pierce Morgan, who I spoke to last week about this, came out and said, "Well, if it was anything to do with a government or there's a sort of that or anything, that was in some people would have known about it. They would have all come out and spoke." No, they wouldn't.

“You may well find that if there is a proper judicial inquiry people will start coming out of the woodwork and go, "Actually, it's funny you should say that because and this and it will."”

But we, the public, have a right to know what up that's all we're asking, what happened and nobody has given us an answer. Who was it? Who was your theory? What is my theory? I haven't the famous idea. I think it's very obvious that elements of the American security services knew that there was a plot. Obviously, they did, they were a plot. I think the evidence shows that conclusively. You mean the other 18 and the United States were being followed around both by American government CIA and the FBI.

And also by these railways. They were there and a bunch of these railways who knew it was going to happen, got arrested. Well, they were dancing around. Correct. Correct. Congratulations. Yes. Whatever it was they were doing.

“So the question is, did the Americans and the Israelis have a hand in doing it? Did they allow it to happen? Did they have a complex sting operation that went wrong?”

And it happened despite their best efforts. This does happen where the FBI, for example, will be following somebody and everyone around and will be an informant. And the idea is to gather the evidence on them and then he goes and shoot somebody. And the FBI says, well, we didn't want that. Is it that? I mean, I don't know the answer. But, and I also know, I believe, that the building seven story doesn't make any sense at all.

And I don't know why you would attack people who raise questions about something that doesn't make any sense, but they have.

Right? At all. Well, I must have heard somewhere, and maybe it was on one of the great vines of conspiracy theories. So they're questioning it. A couple of the flaws in building seven worse CIA offices. I think that's true. I've certainly heard that.

“Well, there was a field officer, and an FBI field officer, and I think a bunch of different government agencies.”

I think that's, well, there's, well, what we do know, we do know certain things that happen because there is evidence. So, for instance, General Wesley Clark's story is about visiting the Pentagon and his meetings in the offices either of Paul Wolfowitz or somebody close to Wolfowitz at the time. Where they described the plan, the American plan, the Pentagon plan, the government plan, who's plan was it exactly? To destroy seven countries in the five years that followed. Yes.

Of those seven countries, five have gone. There's only Lebanon and Iran left standing out of those seven countries.

So, and Wesley Clark, he always seems like a fairly kind of down to earth straight forward kind of a guy and a very fine professional soldier and somebody who would be unlikely to make this stuff up.

And, and, but, in order to fulfill those ambitions for the New American centuries, it was known by the neocardons, they needed a Pearl Harbor.

“But, who's the day? Who's the day that Israel possibly is something to do with it?”

Elements, possibly in the United States government, that there must have been it's a big, big thing to pull off. And, I can sense people now watching this going, but pull off what they didn't, it wasn't. It just blames flew in and the buildings felt, no, they didn't. That's the one thing that we know for absolute sure, because every single physicist or engineer or architect in the world, or they all agreed. There is no way the North and South Tows and Building 7 came down because of airplanes sitting, just not possible.

The first person I ever heard say that, if this doesn't make any sense, just as a structural matter, can the building come down because of an airplane strike?

The first person to say that that I know of his Donald Trump, who said that on a morning show, he called in, the morning of 9/11 and said, "I was there, I'm a builder, I know how those buildings were built." That doesn't make any sense. He said that on there you can pull up the tape.

“I think it just happened to be Trump. I mean, it could be anybody with knowledge of building, but that has kind of gotten lost over the years that structural engineers said this is impossible.”

What happened? There was a report by a bunch of structural engineers who said that. What happened to them? Well, nothing happened to them. They still exist. They're all still alive. They're all still perplexed. They're all still wondering why nobody took them seriously.

As we all are, we're always like this thing that I showed you earlier, well, I wrote down that. Can you read that and tell us what it is?

Sure, yeah. I'd be delighted too. I mean, it's... So this is a note that you wrote yourself. Yeah. It just says, "It says a note from Roger, so it was from and to me. I'll read it for me." And I wrote this on the second of January 2019. Okay, so this is a couple of months. So, I've been in Stard, Switzerland since the 29th of December, 2018, only three days, but in these three days, something has crystallized. I will tell you what it is. I've been wondering somewhat excitedly about a forthcoming event in New York City,

the convening by U.S. Attorney Jeffrey Burman of a special grand jury in the South Circuit of New York City, to consider even at this distance in time the events of September 11, 2001. At the instigation of the Lawyers Committee for a 9/11 inquiry. Quote, "We have received and reviewed the Lawyers Committee for 9/11 inquiry and submissions of April the 10th and July the 30th, 2008. We will comply with the provisions of you of 18 U.S. C. blah blah blah as they relate to your submission. That's saying that they're going to have the inquiry.

Tears stay my eyes." On September 11, 2001, that terrible day when America was attacked, and the whole world recoiled in horror.

“I was in London making a record, and watched it all unfold on TV, transfixed and recoiling in horror too.”

Almost immediately, I couldn't help thinking to myself, "This is so shocking that maybe the American people will ask themselves why would anyone from another land want to do this to us?" Having life insurance is one of those things that helps you sleep better at night, something that would happen to you, what exactly would happen to your loved ones, your children. We've heard so many stories of families losing a parent and having their life insurance policy saved their financial lives. That's the whole point of it. It makes all the difference in the world.

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According to the American mainstream media, the American people didn't ask themselves that question. They accepted the received wisdom of the quote, "they hate our freedom narrative."

And in spite of massive and commendable protests invaded Iraq. And of story, well, it's not actually the end, or the whole of the story, within days, sensible, concerned American citizens started to question the narrative that 19 young Arab terrorists hijacked 3 US American airplane flights and attacked the twin towers

“at the World Trade Center, leveling 3 multi-story steel frame buildings, informed architects and civil engineers backed up by decades of professional experience pointed out”

that the officially accepted 9/11 narrative was physically impossible.

That it defied the laws of physics. The twin towers could not possibly have been raised to the ground by fires caused by the impact of two airplanes, something else must abort them down. By the way, when I talk of architects and engineers, I mean thousands of professional engineers and architects not one or two cranks or conspiracy theorists. The list comprises almost everyone with any expert knowledge of steel frame buildings and how they react to fire. Within a week or two, the evidence that the twin towers were not downed by Mohammed Atta and his friends was unassailable by anyone with an IQ above room temperature.

Let us not underestimate the less than honorable influence and connivance of the mainstream media at this point to a man and maybe the odd woman also, not to let you ladies off the hook, the mainstream media decided to look the other way. Without the 19 young Arab terrorists narrative to proceed unchallenged through the charade of the official investigation or official investigation, the 9/11 commission, no real evidence was heard. The official government narrative was simply rubber stamped with no real investigation, so today, January 2, 2019, I have to make an apology, I knew what was happening, I have an IQ above room temperature.

I am ashamed of my silence down all these years, I challenge the United States government to have a real investigation.

Now, the convening of this special grand jury in New York City is a start. We can't bring back our brothers and sisters, but we can say, "Nonka mass, we must have a full open judicial inquiry into the invents of September 11, 2001, we owe it to all the victims of that dreadful crime and also to their families. The powers that be a blah blah blah, and it goes on, "Sisters of mercy better join with your brothers, but then to the soap opera of state, they say the toothless get ruthless, better run home before it's too late, which is a quote from one of my songs from 1987, the point is this man disappeared without trace.

“Where he was fired finally enough by Trump a few years later, he was the attorney, the U.S. attorney in the southern deckstrict of New York, who said he was going to bring it before a grand jury.”

Nothing happened, it disappeared, as did the investigation suggested by who was the far chief from Queens? I've got his name down here.

Chris Gioro, he was a commissioner of police from Queens, New York, who lost brothers, his fireman died in 9/11, he had an IQ above from temperature. He knows that the buildings didn't fall down because there are planes flew into them, he tried to open, he disappeared. Anybody who makes any suggestion that this was what the official narrative is, they quietly disappear, they lose the next election, they lose their job, they get fired. The only member of Congress, I'm aware of to say anything like this was Kurt Weldon from Pennsylvania, who's a committee chairman and a powerful incumbent, and he began asking questions about 9/11 and then right before the election, the FBI raided his daughter's business, never file charges, she was never charged, but they raided the business to throw the election and he lost.

“So that raises the question, why would you, since you are a famous person, a successful person, Rockstar, why would you weigh on this, knowing what's going to happen when you do?”

Well, I sincerely care about Wright and Ron, I sincerely care about human rights, all being all human rights for everyone all over the world, okay, and whoever perpetrated this crime doesn't.

They didn't even care for the human or for the right to life of the 3000 people they murdered in the 20 hours that day, so for it to never be investigated is beyond the pale for me.

And I care about Matt Campbell, and I care about his dead brother Jeff, and I care about his mum and dad and their family, but they're just one family, but to his eternal credit Matt has put 26 years of effort into this, and I know a number of the other peers Robinson and others have put time at energy into all of this stuff, all of these years, and they've done the right thing.

“These are the people doing the right thing, people doing the wrong thing or anybody who tries to stand in the way of their being a judicial inquiry with evidence, so that we find out what happened.”

You know, because it's never an in America is very, very difficult to do it. Did Lee Harvey Oswell pull a trigger from 200 yards away, and somehow blow Kennedy's head off the back of his, no, we know that's nonsense as well. The Warren Commission, that one was called head by one of the Dalits wasn't at first the Dalits who was in charge of that, and we all know it's nonsense, we'll know that we've never, nobody's ever got to the bottom of what actually happened. They can't release the file 63 years later, they have not released every JFK assassination related file the CIA still has them.

You know, and if you do easy exactly about what we all have to remember that JFK, love him or not, he made that incredible speech at the University of Massachusetts in front of that, it's called a commencement speech isn't it?

We must make peace with the Russians. There are brothers and sisters, and look where we are now.

They're desperate to have a war with Russia, that's not the whole Ukrainian nonsense is all about. And so, you know, Kennedy was right and I killed him. And so, it doesn't suit whoever it is who makes all the profit out of the out of war. They want wars to have the couldn't care less about the human rights of ordinary people anywhere. Does matter if you're an American or a Russian, would Chinese or Indian or any national or English, it doesn't matter they couldn't care less. All they care about probably is profit and power.

Well, we care about something different than that. We care about one another.

And we, as I said in that little thing I gave to you earlier, we try and develop our capacity for empathy with our brothers and sisters in other countries across national borders or religious differences or what are now. We're all human beings. There is only one race, the human race, and we're all part of it. We have absolute responsibility to try and help one another. Cities on these coast hit triple digit temperatures on the 4th of July. It's hard to get a good night's sleep in that kind of heat.

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I'm a sympathetic year on this question. Oh, not everyone is.

“I know, I do understand that, but that's what we're doing. That's why I'm here.”

And that's why I'm so grateful for you for having this conversation with me about that. Because you have a huge audience. And when your audience here, this might be the go, you know, well, you know, why don't we have an investment?

We made a whole documentary on the subject, multi-part, and I didn't know until right now that there had never been an inquiry, an independent inquiry, never by court into 9/11.

I just have a little bit shocked to hear that. Is isn't it bizarre? So thank you, Matt. And God bless you, Jeff, you know, and your family, and all the other families, all the families of all the far fighters who lost their lives in this sense. Who are? They're the eyewitness and the earwitness support. They all hear it. They all know it. Everybody knows it and you open your eyes and the story of the BBC and building seven. Well, they tell you that it's falling down half an hour before they demolish it. It's bizarre.

So yeah, so this could be this conversation between you and me could be a turning point for the whole human race. I often say this in other contexts, but we're right in it now. You and I are right in the middle of a battle. And there's an existential battle for the soul of the human race.

“Can we empathize with one another or not or will we allow the oligarchs and all the and sometimes people in our governments to keep us at each other's throats over dimes and grotes?”

When we should be giving one another helping hand and communicating and cooperating across national boundaries, particularly with the Russians and the Chinese and the Iranians that are not for care.

That I was responding to that. And then Russia, are you insane? Do you know who the Russian people are?

“And you do know, do you know that they won the Second World War before you got involved in it?”

Twenty million Russians died saving this planet from the Nazis? Twenty million. And we won half a fight with them. It's just, I've been there.

They're lovely people. I agree. You've been there. I saw your thing about the underground station. Yeah, it was very moving. I've found that moving because, and it's such a surprise. Oh, really? No, no. No, Russians have monsters. They're communist monsters. They would destroy us all, you know. That's a civilized country. If there's a definition of civilized it's that. It's many, many different groups, ethnic groups from all everything, from, you know, the Chinese borders to the Ukraine. So it's all very, very difficult.

“But are you worried that the West is moving toward an actual war with Russia, not just Ukraine against Russia, but Western Europe, US against Russia?”

I'm worried that some of the people in the governments of the United States, America, and the European Union are making blood-curdlingly blood-thirsty noises about the possibility of fighting there, particularly in Germany, by the way. We're trying now to get 5% of the GMP of all the European countries to be put into a big piggy banks in order to fight the Russians. The Russians don't want to invade Europe. Why are they talking about? But they're saying that, and they're saying it publicly, and they do it. Who knows why they do it?

Because maybe they're asked to say those things, by whoever it is, is paying them. It's still a bit of a business politics in Europe, and definitely in the United States of Maryland. There's a ruling elite with a lot of money, and they pay politicians to do their bidding on what they want, because it suits them.

Because they make money, basically. It's greed. It's the greedy, in my view. That's my view, by the way.

Maybe there's any question you're right. I mean, it's obviously true. It's obviously true. It's just that when you push an entire continent into a war that it cannot win by definition, you risk the lives of millions of people. I mean, that's a big step to do something like that. It sure is, yeah, and it's crazy. Now, we have to be cooperating with the Russians, of course. Particularly. Yes. And then good. You've been there. You've been there. I've been there. Me too. I've worked there a lot in my life.

I do interviews with it whenever I can. It's sort of how it breaks my heart that I can't watch our tea anymore, because it's banned. You can't watch Russia today. We used to be able to, in America, up until the start, up until 22, up until February, the win over it was, yes, 22. When the special military operation as the Russians call it, started, because the Minsk Awards were not adhered to, but that's another conversation. But mask. So you grew up in England. Your father was killed fighting the Nazis in the Second World War.

You grew up in a victor country that congratulated itself on its freedoms.

If we hadn't sacrificed, we'd all be speaking German and marching and rose. They always said that.

“Is it strange to live in a world where you're not allowed to watch a certain TV channel?”

Of course it is. And I did grow up in post-war England, and we suddenly had a national health service, because we had a labour government after the Second World War. And then, weirdly, in our fair alternative relationship with Tony Blair and Margaret Thatcher and all that right wing stuff coming back in again, which it did. And interestingly enough, I wrote the wall in 1979, I wrote a song in that "Cooker by Blue Sky." And it's a beautiful song, but did you hear the fright? Did you hear the fright and ones? Did you see the falling bombs?

Did you ever wonder why we had to run for shelter when the promise of a brave new world unfold beneath a clear blue sky?

That we certainly realized that this idea that we had that we could live in a socialist future where we looked after one another,

and also a future where we didn't have wars, nation against nation, was a pipe dream, because it didn't suit the oligarchs, who, whenever it was, in 1948, for the Declaration of Human Rights, had their fingers crossed behind their backs, because they never believed in human rights at all. They believe in profit. And that's all there is to, so we live in a very difficult time where it may be, unless you, with your audience, or me, with my tiny voice, can join with our brothers as sisters and pull together the ordinary working people all over the globe.

And we can make the voice of the choir so loud that we can drown out the propaganda of the ruling class, particularly in the United States, because ordinary people in there have been so hoodwinked by them.

And they believe, oh, with the greatest country in the world, no, you're not. And anyway, even if there was a great country and not great, it's not important. What's important is, are you kind?

“Can you be kind to people? That's what's important, because that's what brings joy to your life. You know, we all know it.”

Charlie McKeezy, who's an artist I know in England, he wrote a great book. It's a sort of cartoon, but it's a book. And it's called The Boy, The Mowl, the Fox and the Horse, is the name of this book. Check it out, because on page three, and I know this, because I knew him when he gave me a copy, and it's name or whatever.

The Mowl and the Boy, who've made friends, are sitting on a branch of a tree, and the Mowl says to the Boy, "What you want to be when you grow up?" And the Boy says, "Kind."

“I'm sorry to be sort of sentimental, but I get like, "I'm my goodness." "Yes, that's what I want to be to." And that's what I want all my brothers and sisters. Kind. Be kind to one another.”

Then you can't have a war. Wars? War is a really, really bad idea. Don't know. It's terrible idea. Yeah, for everyone. For everyone, yeah. You have been vocal in your criticism of the killing in Gaza, and of the treatment of the Palestinians over a number of years, probably last 20 years. And it's exactly 20. Exactly 20. Why did you decide, I mean, you must have known that saying something about that. Yeah. You were going to forfeit some of your harder and rock star privileges. Yeah, I mean, right? Yeah. Yeah. I went there. Oh, I did a gig in a place called Nevis Chalom.

Wahat Assalam in Arabic, which was a piece village halfway between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. When they grew chickpeas, and I did a gig in the open air, and I did it after I'd canceled a gig in Tel Aviv in a football stadium called, I can't remember what it's called. The, it's higher con, it's called higher con park, and it's built on the ruins of a destroyed Palestinian village. So, and I'd never been anywhere near Israel, and I'd believed all the propaganda of, you know, the socialist Israelis with their democratic ways rolling their sleeves up and creating all this, you know, a wonderful country.

And, and then I went there, and I saw the apartheid, I saw what was happening, and I went back, I went back two years later, and I drove all over the West Bank,

“with honor, and with a woman from honour called Allegra Petceo, and I never forget, I was, we were driving north towards Geneva and I went, "Well, at least they have nice roads, because it was a nice, two-lane blacktop, Dalmat Road,”

and Allegra looked at me, like I was dove to a sub thing, and she said, "Yeah, if you do, I went, what are you talking about?" She said, "You're not allowed to drive on this road unless you do,

and they go, "You're a Christian, aren't you? 'Cause if you know, you can't go on the road, and you go, "What?" Don't be doubtful.

Well, that's, that's it, it's a completely apartheid, it's a dirty, if you're an Arab, you're not allowed on the road. I didn't believe it, but I did, after a bit, and I saw it, and it was just hell on earth. They've created hell on earth, and in that visit, and those visits that I made, you know, I decided that I would be vocal and do anything that I could tell, my Palestinian brothers and sisters, to achieve equal human rights with their Jewish brothers and sisters, between the Jordan River and the Sea, not asking anyone to kill anyone, right?

“But you have to have equal, you can't have apartheid, you cannot allow apartheid societies to spring up in the world.”

That is not a way to encourage one another to be kind in my view.

So you see this, you're stunned by it, moved by it, outraged by it, when do you decide to talk about it? Did you think about it immediately? Immediately. Yeah. And what was the response you got?

Well, the Israeli lobby in America, particularly, were not best pleased. So they would, and they have ever since done, done everything that they can, to destroy my career, they're failed. I fight back, you know, what have they done? Well, one thing that they did, and it's almost the most criminal thing in my view that they did was, I used to work for an organisation called Stand Up for Heroes.

And it's helping wounded American servicemen, limbs missing, you know, whatever. And somebody asked me, Bob and Lee Woodruff, the name of the people who run a foundation called the Woodruff Foundation.

I know them, yes, okay. Well, and Bob called me up one day, and who's this Bob Woodruff, never out of you, you know.

And he said, there's this thing, and we do a thing called Stand Up for Heroes, where comics do and somebody plays and Springsteen comes and he sings a song and options are guitar.

“And we raised money for these wounded men. Would you come and sing a song?”

And I thought it through, and I thought, well, let me think about it. And he said, well, we're doing a thing at the National History Museum in a week's timer. Would you come? It's just, you know, a glass champagne and meet some of the men and see what you think. And so I did, I went to this thing, and I was wondering around with my glass of champagne. And there were a number of men in uniform around it. One of them is in a wheelchair.

He's got no legs and only one arm, and he's in his dress blues, so he's got all the kit on. And he was sitting on his own so I thought, well, in front of Penny, and I went over and started talking to him. And I'm smiling now because his friend of mine now, this was in 2013, so that's 13 years ago now. And he looked up, made like that, sought to be polite. And then he, he's eyes open wide and I realized that he recognized me.

And so he went, and he went like that bit, and then he said, well, I play the guitar too. So he was Latino guy. And then I looked at him, he's got no legs and only one arm, and I'm thinking that's a bit of a stretch playing the guitar. And he could see the look in my eye and bless him, his name's Dom. So he looked at me and he went, oh, yeah, well, I don't play the guitar anymore. And he went, now I play the drums, and he does, and he's a bloody good drummer as well.

And so that was the start, so I went back to Bob and Lee Woodruff and said, I'd feel a bit funny getting up there with all my arms and legs and in a song. How of worthy it is, why if I go down to Walter Reed, because that's where a lot of these guys were.

“Bethesda, it was called then, I think, the Naval Hospital.”

Why if I find, there's a, there's a bloat down there called Arthur Bloom, who's running a therapeutic rehabilitation music program.

And anyway, don't be doubted.

I don't know, I'm not being doubted, I'm being serious. Anyway, this said yes, and we did it, and we did it. In 2013 in the Beacon Theatre in 2014 Madison Square Garden and Flower Emperor. But then, and this is to answer your question. 2015 was coming up.

No, yeah, 2015 and I was in the Hamtons in the summer, and I suddenly thought, hang on a minute, it's August. I haven't had the phone call, because the show would be in November. So I called the producer, he's a lovely guy called Andrew Fox. And I went Andrew, I haven't had the phone call. Silence, I went, get over here, and he did.

“And we sat outside with the glass of wine, I said, come on, cough, what's going on?”

And he told me, it was the Israeli lobby who've decided that you can't do it anymore. What? What about the man? No, the man can't either, because if the man do it and you're not there, people will ask questions. So you're not allowed to help veterans if you criticize Israel, that's correct. Yeah, you're not allowed to help veterans.

Or I was not involved in other charities, which was distributing food from restaurants, post restaurants in New York. It's called City Harvest, yes. They told City Harvest the same thing, not a single cent for many of us if you go on dealing with rotiores. In other words, accepting help from you. Yeah.

You were just volunteer just giving. Oh, I was a friend of the people running as well, but now you can't, you can't. So, all I'm saying is it's disgusting beyond any imagination.

And for what, for being critical of an apartheid state, which is what it was, I am very critical of this day of Israel.

Got nothing against Jewish people, nothing.

“I think I couldn't care less what religion anybody is. Has anybody who knows me will tell you.”

So yeah. So it is what it is. It got so intense at one point I was reading that you couldn't, you were banned from certain hotels because the hotel. Yeah. Is that true? Yes.

Yeah. That didn't start happening until 2023, which was the last big tour I did. And both in Europe and in South America, particularly, I couldn't find a hotel to stay anywhere in Buenos Aires, or in Colombia, or in Ecuador. In Ecuador? Yeah. Well, it just been taken over by Nabawa, who as we know is a gangster from Miami.

So, who knows what his issues are? Yeah. You couldn't stay in a hotel in Ecuador, Colombia, or Argentina, because you criticize Israel. Yes. Oh, Uruguay. Yeah.

Yeah. Good and stay in Monsifedaya. We did actually stay in a hotel in Keto in Ecuador for one night. But they had to pretend, though, isn't that? You couldn't make it up, good you.

That's a long way from Israel. Would it what is Keto, Ecuador, or Manavideo Uruguay, or BA have to do with Israel? There's an Israeli lobby that is very organized in all of those places. And there may well be in other cities in the world as well. Certainly, yeah. Certainly in many other cities.

Frankfurt, they tried to cancel my gig in Frankfurt. They did cancel my gig in Crackow in Poland in 2023. And what grounds?

On the grounds that they wanted to cancel me, because I was critical of the apartheid genocide.

Because I'm against genocide and they're not. They're in favor of it.

“That's why they're all quiet. They're a silo.”

They all keep silent. They close their mouths. They won't speak because they know that they'll get the treatment that I get if they open their mouths. There is a very powerful lobby. And it wants Israel to go on being a genocide or apartheid state. And to expand and to take over Lebanon and Syria and Jordan and greater Israel.

It's the whole, it's the plan. They don't make, it's not a secret. Netanyahu and Ben Gavier are in terms of who's the ambassador there. The U.S. Ambassador is called Mike Huckabee.

But yeah, crazy Christian Zionist.

“And you know what? And maybe at the bottom of it, all is they're all waiting for the coming of the Messiah.”

They don't care. Well, Mike Huckabee obviously hopes it'll be Jesus. Because then he can go to heaven with Mike Pence and the other Christian Zionist. I'm sorry. No, no, no, no. I couldn't agree more. That's not Christianity, just for the record. It's not even a close facsimile of Christianity.

As I recall, you're a Christian, right? Yes, I am. As I recall, Jesus, through the Maneland as out of the temple. Yes. Or tried to.

Yeah, that's probably why they crucified and braided a whip.

There you go. And I'm not making the joke about that. That bit of history really impresses me because use a raise. You know what? One of the things that the US government and the other government, particularly this really government,

have got against Iran as the landing money for profit is illegal in Iran. Did you really? And I didn't know that. It's against law. Use a raise against the law in the Islamic Republic of Iran in Persia.

In Persia. It's illegal.

Why would that offend other governments?

Yeah. It's the basis of the way everything works. You get control over a government by lending the money. And once you've lent them the money or given them the money, I mean, don't look at me with your brow fire at like that.

You've seen the Congress of the United States and the cast that I've got. Yeah, I'm, of course I know what you're saying. Again, I agree with you completely. I didn't know that user he was banned in Iran though. Yeah.

Right, forgotten.

“What is, when you saw the United States going to war with Iran, what did you think?”

United States and Israel. Well, it's despicable, obviously, to attack Iran. Why? What have, they've done nothing. What have they done?

Nothing. Certainly posing no threat to anyone in the United States of America. Or Israel as far as we can tell them. They're just there in the way because they have a different view. For instance, user he is illegal under their system.

Whether it's anything to do with Islam or whether it's just to do with, with their form of socialism, I've no idea, but it goes against the grain in a big way. But why, why have another, because it's part of Wesley Clark's prediction as well. You go on my goodness. It's only Iran and Lebanon are the only two countries on the list that have not been totally destroyed,

to including Syria and Lebanon, Somalia and Sudan and blah and blah and blah and blah. You know, this was the plan of the neocons all along the new American century. I'm sorry to be, to be sound as if I'm banging on about because, you know, my mum came over here before the war as well. And she did say, she said to me, she used to say to me, because she was very left-wing her politics. She said, the people I met in America, darling, were very nice people, many, many of them, very kind.

And very hospitable, you know, blah, blah, blah. But she would lower her voice, but they're very, very naive. And I know we can laugh, but it's like to be suckered into the state you're in now, as you are the absolute devil, as far as the rest of the world, obviously, because you wage war ferociously, in order to line your own pockets.

And in ways that the rest of the world finds despicable, look at what's happening in Venezuela now. And there's no, no pretence made about it. Oh, we're going to go in and just steal all the oil and anything of any value under it. And that's now the model. So that might be the reason to have a war with Russia, then we could still whatever's under the ground,

because we haven't got it, or the Chinese, even worse, they've got even more rare minerals.

“If you want to make, I don't know, that'll compute us and things.”

We're getting away from Matt Campbell, and his brother Jeff, but I don't mind. No, I'm just as an interest in conversation. It is interesting. And it's, um, you probably don't read a lot of what's written about you, but you are described as a hater and a dangerous man.

Yeah, said, I don't recognize ethnic or religious distinctions.

I just love people. These are not words of hate. These are the opposite. Correct. How exact, I mean, I'm just taking by your own words. Thank you.

“Um, how is it that you have been slandered by the media as the opposite of what you say you are?”

Well, it's like, how is it that in England, over the last year, they've been describing pro-Palestinian marches that are anti-Janiceite as hate marches? Not that my friends who are out in the streets,

protesting against the actual genocide that's going on now of the Palestinian people.

Um, and yet the British media call those hate marches. It's bizarre. There's no hatred involved in those marches. It's pure love. Pure is exactly what I'm proposing. It's exactly what I support with all my heart and have done all my life.

It's like me like the thing little thing I gave you saying, every word I've ever written in all my rock and roll writing. Okay, is about that. It's about encouraging empathy for others in myself and in others. That's all that's all I write about, because it's what I care about. It's what my mom and dad instilled in me.

My father was killed by the Nazis. My mother, who with every bone in her body, believed in the inherent goodness of the human race. And believed in the possibility of what was it?

“Why we had to run for shelter when the promise of a brave new world unfold beneath a clear blue sky?”

Okay, my mom believed in the brave new world, unfurling. And we're not talking all the sucks for now. No, not that brave new world, but an actual real world where people love one another and help one another and get back what it is. It's like, in this poem I wrote years ago, there's something the doctors know from ages gone or something. Good friends to rebuild the barn.

I was thinking of it as I drove through the countryside coming up here through Maine and seeing all these houses dotted. They're all the same. They're all exact. They're all cardboard, you know, copies of one another. They're all clapboard. They're all white or brown or whatever. But you can imagine people living in them, human being, and you can imagine people. Look, it's barns falling down. Let's go and help him rebuild it.

“Good neighbors to help rebuild the barn. That's what we need.”

Not war. War is the absolute worst possible thing. And yet, they're the biggest industries in the developed Western country. And the more zealously defended, I will say that. What you've been doing media interviews for 50 years more, how would you describe the media's role in war?

Well, sadly it's holding it up. It's basically what the Western media now is, sort of, more or less, saying more what? The certainly not going. I think we should go and stand outside race here and stop at.

You know, oh, oh, can I? No, well, let's all go to Washington DC and say, if you drop another bomb on Iran, you'll never, you won't be anywhere to do with any government that represents me.

Because it's the worst possible thing that you can be doing. Or going and kidnapping Nicholas Maduro and Celia Flores from Caracas, where they live, where he's the president of the country in the head of state. Just because you've got helicopters. And more ons with guns or do anything, they're bloody well-sold. You know, it's awful, obviously. This is even worse than the Biden administration or Bush before that.

It's gone, you've gone down to hell in a big, what happened to you? I mean, it feels like it's a may. I mean, I think it's going to be hard to emerge from this or on thing intact. I mean, I think it's very destructive. Well, it's so self-destructive as well, entirely, entirely. Yeah, I'm still trying to figure out why we did it exactly the mechanics of it, but yeah, no, it's worse even than I worried it would be for us.

So when you go do interviews or how do people respond to you, how does the media respond to you?

Well, the media doesn't speak to me. What do you mean? Well, they don't. I don't do any mainstream media.

“The closest I come to mainstream media is Piers Morgan, who shouts a may for all for now.”

And you who have, I have to say, a very nice host or a sandwich because, like, we have to wish very nice. But you don't do, you don't do morning shows on network television. No one asks you to come and talk or no. I'm, no, I'm persona non grater out there in media land. You think the New York Times would print an article if I wrote it.

I've sent up teen articles to big newspapers all over.

I don't know anymore because I know that nothing will ever get printed in a single word. I'm for book and I'm proud of it. I'd sort of am proud of it because I'm preaching kindness. Yes, thank you Charlie McKeezy, by the way. I hope you see this and you get your name because it's such a beautiful little book.

The boy, the model, the folks and the horse. What do you want to be when you grow up kind? [laughs] Last question, thank you. Go on.

Where does this go do you think? So we're on the precipice of a deepening Iran war, a total explosion in Russia.

“Are you, do you have any hope at all that this can be resolved peacefully?”

These two conflicts. Samood is an Arabic word that means perseverance, steadfast perseverance. In resistance, particularly to the occupation of your homeland.

So it's very well used and well worn Arabic word, which, and it moved me when I first heard it.

What it is, and I've written a song called Samood and there. And I won't try and remember all the lyrics because I can't but I know how it finishes up. It finishes up when we, with me talking about all the ordinary people all over the world. Standing shoulder to shoulder from the river to the sea, from every river to every sea, all over every wire. OK, and raising their voices together as one ordinary people.

OK, and I'm not going to try and remember the exact form of the words, but it ends up with this idea. When they do that with Samood, with steadfast perseverance all together, they can turn this ship around. But it will take them to do it. They will have to do it.

“The people standing shoulder to shoulder arm in arm.”

It will take that kind of force to turn this ship around from its path to the ultimate destruction of the human race. Imminent destruction of the human. This could end in a nuclear configuration in any minute with the very easily, very easily. So we, and people who do speak to me, right? Like USB speak to me, who's USB?

USB is the dock workers union in Italy. They revere me. So at least you got the dock workers union in Italy. And that makes me so happy. You know, the thought, the ordinary people may hear my voice and make you know what he makes a lot of sense.

That's how I feel too. Oh, do we really all have, yes, you do. You all got to come together and raise your voice. Whenever you get the chance to do it, because we are many and they are few. The people, the enemy is a very few, very rich oligarchs.

Probably a thousand or two thousand of them in the whole world. And they run the whole thing. They keep the wars going. And they do it because they're greedy. They are no bowler in Ecuador.

Well, this new woman has just been. It was just stolen the erection in Peru through Juverami or whatever a bloody name is. And there's somebody else just come in and cast in Chile. Unfortunately, there's a big move to the right politically in South America, which I've followed quite a lot.

You know, it's back to listening to what Alfred Malcolm X had to say back in the '60s.

We have to organize. We've been out organized. We're not outnumbered or outthought or outfelt. But we have been out organized. And so, is there any hope? Yeah, there is. You know, are an opera about the French Revolution called Sa-ra, which is the future tense of Sa-ra.

“So it's sort of a... I'm sorry. You wrote an opera about the French Revolution?”

Yes, I did.

Something I've never done.

No, okay. But hang on. I just want to say this. The guy who wrote the libretto, mainly, who was a Frenchman called Etienne Roterschild, he said something to me one day. We were walking down 54th Street.

“It was early in the morning. He's now Catholic.”

So he had to stop for a couple of large sketches. And I had a couple of his bra so. Anyway, and he was doing that French thing that they do with this, his turn. Yeah. You know, and looking loved to see it.

And I asked him, I said something to him. I said, "What gives you hope, Etienne?" You know, anyway.

“When he thought about it, and then he left another bench.”

And Etienne's never in other ways.

And then he went, and he started to speak, and he wrote, "I was here. I beg of her. I was here." Ah, wait. I felt something. Yeah. And perhaps, I was not alone.

I wrote it on a piece of paper, and it's been in my back pocket ever since. I knew may have to think about it for a bit. I was here. I felt something. And perhaps I was not alone. It gives me hope, too. You could use it to describe our conversation.

I was here. I felt something and perhaps it was not alone. I don't think we're all alone. Good. Roger Waters. Thank you for that. Not at all. Thank you.