Giannis Traded! Boston’s Future, Early Signings, Draft Thoughts, and More!

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Aldi. Good. Just for Aldi. Way, why didn't they go all the way? What happens now with jail and brown? Kurt Goldsbury's here to help me sort through all that

plus tray young. All the deals that have happened. Austin Reeves just happened today. We talked about that or was agreed to today. We talked about the sun's deals.

CJ McCollum, Dusty Mays, a head coach. Mike Danoria is a head coach in Portland. Oh, just a whirlwind of stuff already happening in the NBA. And then John Think of only the master of the draft.

We react to the first round.

What did happen? What didn't happen, Darren Peters, and going to Utah, the Banceau, and going to Washington, and on down from there, some of the trade talks that didn't really lead to much.

“But what was going on a little bit behind the scenes?”

He picks some winners and losers. So interesting picks. How did we walk you do with their extra lottery pick? We get into all of that as the NBA moves in to off season mode free.

And so you'll be here before you know it. That's all coming up on the Zacklos show. [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] Welcome to the Zacklos show where I am back from the triumphant

Croatia win in the World Cup at a nightmare travel. They finally ready to talk about all the stuff that's happened in the NBA, Janice, the draft, Austin Reeves, the Celtics, tons of other stuff. Kirk Goldsberry is here.

How you doing, bud? I'm great, Zach. It's great to be with you so much to talk about. Not only an MVP caliber player traded, but obviously the NBA draft.

It's great to be with you, buddy. And Austin Reeves news just broke that he's resigning at a four-year max deal with the Lakers similar in scope and cost a little bit lower to the four-year max deal that the Wizards have signed with Tray Young.

What? We'll get to that later. We have to start with the honest intent of who Boho is finally traded to the Miami Heat, not the Boston Celtics.

Do you own Brown still on the Celtics? Oh, God. And not anybody else, it was really those two teams in the end as various playoff fates and team decisions. The spurs never came in.

The thunder never came in.

The rockets so much surprisingly never came in. The magic never seriously came in. And then Janice and the next obviously never came in. And then Janice sort of indicated to anyone who might come in. And then you might not want to trigger best assets

because these are the places that I want to sign. And he put his thumb on the scale at least a little bit. And the bucks come away with. Let me make sure I get all of it. It exchanged for Janice and Bobby Portis, pointedly.

Tyler Hero, Kaleau Ware, Jaime Hawke is Jr. Casper as Yaka Chonis. Three first round picks including the number 13 picking yesterday's draft which we use on Nate A. Men, a one-pick swap. And one second round are the heat notably Mr. Gold's Barry.

Get Janice, get Portis. And actually did not trade all the swaps that they could trade to Milwaukee and depending on how they write the language of a first round pick that they owe Charlotte next year, actually could have another first round pick or like half

of a first round pick to trade. And that's notable to me because Norm Powell is an unrestricted phrase. The heat are hardcapped at the first apron.

They're only like 1819 million below it.

That's not going to be enough for Norm Powell who has hovers around the league. There may be a chance where the heat attached some of those draft assets to Yovitch's contract return a lesser salary player and return and open up a little bit more space

“because Norm Powell suddenly looms as one of the key pieces”

of the offseason. I want to start with the bucks. Because although they did pretty well here

I think the phrase given the circumstances is indicative of everyone involved in this just mismanagement, mismanaged it, including the bucks who mismanaged it right until the Barry end. I mean there's a larger story burbling underneath the surface

here of how unwieldy this Milwaukee bucks ownership structure with the equal votes and the rotating governorship has been as much as possible. So you didn't do mark last three brought the team. I think I heard a lot about just Edens and Jimmy Haslam,

not seeing eye to eye on this and it and that kind of paralyzing the trade talks in the end. Like that's been a problem for a while. But given the circumstances, I just think one of the fundamental things is the bucks

waited a year to long to do this.

“And I think that's really the only way to long period”

that you can ding them for. So I thought Kirk it was fitting in a lot of ways, almost poetic that this came down to the heat and the Celtics, two teams that Yannas and the bucks cross paths with at some of the more pivotal moments of his crew.

If you will go back to me with me to 2022, 2021, the bucks win the title, that's it. Yannas did everything you ever wanted. Everything stood up, that should have been goodwill for life. This didn't have to get complicated.

It didn't have to be messy. It didn't have to be any of these things.

They got the title, first one in 50 years.

Great play off run with stood injury, four straight wins or Phoenix. In fact, I'll yield from Drew Holley that goes down as one of the most iconic plays in basketball history. Done.

Next year, they take the Celtics to seven games in the second round without Chris Middleton. And I came away and the Celtics came away at least people I know with the Celtics. From that series in 2022, thinking,

"Oh my God, I don't want to see that do it again "and a play off series for a long time." Go so without his wingman and his second best player, they took us to the hill and he punished us physically. And it looked very much like he was ready to stamp himself

as I am the best player in the NBA. And since that second round loss, the bucks in Yannas have won zero play off series. And the next season was the nightmare against the heat where Yannas misgames was at 100% blood mismanaged

the clock Jimmy Butler destroyed Drew Holley

and the bucks in 2023 lose in the first round.

That's pivot, the real first like, ooh, pivot point of, is Yannas gonna be here long term. And the bucks decided, yes, he's gonna be here long term. He had two years left. In theory, you could have said that's when they could have traded him.

I actually don't think that's fair. He did have two years left on his contract till free agency, so his trade value would have been high. But I think the bucks rightly believed, this is still too early.

Like we're still too good. We're coming off like a title and then a pretty inspiring playoff run against Boston. Flush this trade for Dame, which is then gets Yannas to ink the next extension.

Which is a trade that although it didn't work out, I will defend the process of it like all day. I thought it was a good trade then. I didn't work, I still think it was the right idea. And then that buys them another couple of years.

It was really last summer when Dame tore his Achilles and the writing was on the wall that that's when they should have moved in with another year left on his contract. More trade suitors, more valued.

So when I say they did okay, given the circumstances

“that I think it's obvious that they waited a year too long.”

Don't you think? I think they did okay, given that it's June 2026, but I liked how you framed it up. June 2021 to June 2026. I think they fumbled the bag in this five year window,

which included as you referenced an ownership shift that was awkward, a coach transition or two that have not been great.

You always pick me because we've talked about this team

so many times together. The draft history in that five year window was trash. This team has fumbled the bag. And by the bag, I mean, Yassant to Kumpo,

one of the best players in the league his prime is that five year window. Kudos to him, Drew Hollow Day, Mike Bootenholzer, all of the Chris Middleton, they did bring that, franchise their first title in 50 years or whatever it was.

But the last five years have been a disaster, my opinion, with one of the best assets the league has. So, okay, up to June 2026,

“I think this is as good as they could have done.”

And I actually like the deal from Milwaukee's perspective, it's gonna suck to go through this rebuild. Don't get me wrong. They get all those picks you referenced. And then they get players like Tyler Harrow

can turn into picks or a pick. If they're already getting interest from other teams reportedly on Tyler Harrow. And I think this is as bad as good as you can get. We've seen eye caliber players get traded

in recent years for less than this. And I think that puts them in a good position to start a rebuild. It's not gonna be fun.

But I think it's better than doing the Jalen Brown thing with less draft capital, which was really the only other reported option for them. So, I think the Milwaukee bucks find themselves in sort of a depressed state,

but they can look at this transaction very narrowly. I think it'd be be satisfied. I think they can look at the last five years

“with a lot of regrets, that's how I'd frame it up.”

- Yeah, I mean, a couple of things happened for them. They whiffed in the draft, middle didn't just, his body broke down, and they traded him for Kuzma and that was a disaster. And just it was like drip, drip, drip, drip.

And then the Dame Miles Turner thing was franchise suicide. I mean, that was just like inexplicable at the moment it happened. And now they are where they are.

They don't control any of their own first round picks

until 2031. I do think they made the correct decision between these two offers given that Boston was not willing to load up their offer with all the picks and young players that Milwaukee asked for.

And we'll get to that. The Miami picks, I think, are more valuable than the Boston pick. Starting with 13 in this draft versus 27 in this draft. Huge difference there.

And I think just like given Janice's injury history and aging curve and the fact that he and BAM are gonna have to kind of work out a little bit of their fit together, particularly at offense, undefense fine.

And offense, it's gonna be interesting.

“I think those picks in 2031 and 2033, again,”

depending on who knows what the lottery rules are gonna be. Then let's say they're similar to what this new system is gonna be. I think those picks probably have more upside.

Even though you can tell me what the heat never tanked.

The heat never rebuild with it. Never. Boston's in a pretty, and I think a relatively stronger position than the heat are, but that's hard to project. As for the players, I like that they got Yaka Chone's in the end.

I think he's interesting. He shot it well last year, he's very creative. You can spin him as like another first round. I mean, if you spin this the right way and you flip hero for like a pick and three seconds or something,

you'd be like, we got like six first round picks out of this. Hacca's is fine, he's a good player. I think that's basically what he is. He's a good fifth, sixth, seventh guy, six man to the year, obviously runner up.

Where is the swing piece to me? I have always been higher on Kalo where that air exposure appears to be. So I'm not in there seeing the work habits in the response that. First of all, I do see the occasional missed boxouts, the occasional oh, I shouldn't have chased that block shot,

and now my guy's going to get the rebound decision making all that. Maybe a few too many threes for everyone's liking now. And then I'm tantalized by the skill set. And I like the upside bet on him. Amen.

We'll see hero. I just don't think is long for the bucks one way or another. And I don't think he should be. This team's going to be awful next year. And interestingly, there's this sort of bizarre reverse incentive

that now the nets and the bucks have of, you know, this relegations on where if you're one of the three worst teams in the league, you can't pick, or you get docked lottery odds. And so teams are theoretically going to be competing not to be in the relegations on. The bucks don't care.

Like they don't control their first round picks. So if they are in the relegations on, well, that's, you know, that's like Portland's problem, or whoever controls their pit in the next couple of years. So I don't really think they care.

They're going to be awful.

Look, the bottom line is they didn't get a blue blue chip asset here.

Right. Like A-ment is a nice moonshot at one. Where's a nice moonshot at one? The most likely outcome is this turned into like a pretty good poo poo platter, which is slightly disappointing. Considering you don't control your own draft picks and your ability to rebuild.

But given the circumstances and the, and the predicament that they put themselves in really by waiting this long and being so stubborn about it, they did all right.

“And I agree with you, I think I'd rather have, I don't, I don't think.”

I'd rather have this than jail and brown earning $65 million a year at age 29. And the sort of a lore of, well, hey, you know, like we can be mediocre in this new lottery world, we don't control our own picks. But still, I think they made the right choice here. Let's go to Miami.

Here's where Miami stands now. People are penciling in their starting five. Is debut on Mitchell, normal Andrew Wiggins, bam, and Janice. Let's just, not, let's just be clear. Like, Norpalm may very well not be on the team next year.

He's going to have shooters that's going to be around the league, including the cap space teams like Detroit can open up cap space. Chicago has cap space. I think I think a shooter in Chicago would be awesome for the Caleb Wilson, Buzzellis, giddy thing that they're back going on now. I think even the

Lakers could look at him as a shooter although they're having recent reads. I don't think that that is a great, great fit for them. And then off the bench, they have Hello Larson, Drew Smith, Bobby Portis, Yovitch, no real backup five to speak of unless you count Portis. And I've seen this back and forth and like, oh, the heat have no depth.

Say, I don't understand why people are saying the heat have no depth. Look at all these names and you just name those guys.

And I'm like, okay, Drew Smith basically hasn't been able to play in a playoff series.

Yovitch, like hasn't been able to play in the regular season, sometimes let alone a playoff series. Portis, aging defensive liability, can he be on the floor with both BAM and Yannis? The box kind of went away from that triple big lineup,

but their biggest big brook Lopez is like the walking dinosaur compared to the, the heat guys, so maybe that's workable. Maybe not Larson's all right, like I like him. And then it's Kishad Johnson and the gardener kid who I really like

through in spot minutes, but I'm worried about the depth.

“I think Powell leaving is a massive significant roadblock to them being like a real”

contender. And I'm also worried that like BAM and Yannis are pretty duplicative on offense. I know that BAM shoots three is now, I don't think any team is like really upset when he shoots a lot of threes, he's an okay three-point shooter. I think this is a good team, they have a chance to be a delicious defensive team.

You know, maybe Wiggins opts out and takes a lesser number and that helps him with Powell too. I think if they keep Powell, it's it's a pretty interesting team. I just don't, I don't know if I see contender contender here and given what they gave up, I would like your, your obvious goal here is to contend right away. Yannis is a really great player.

I think he's probably the fourth or fifth fifth best player in the league now.

“I think to do clickiveness with BAM worries me a little bit and the depth worries me a little bit.”

And I don't know, man, I don't, I don't see like title contender right off the bat here. You didn't even bring up the thing I'm most worried about for Miami, which is Yannis' age and health. In the last few years, left calf strain, right knee, tendonopathy, left calf strain. Again, every playoff left every playoff, right calf strain. I did a huge piece for the ringer on calf strains and what the hell's going on.

And one of the experts I talk to Zaclos said, you know what the biggest predictor of a calf strain is. And NBA, it's a previous calf strain. And unfortunately, he's on that sort of conveyor belt of soft tissue injuries, lower body injuries that we've seen sort of plague the NBA disproportionately plague older players. Another crazy stat I have for you among the 25 most active postseason players.

This playoffs, guess how many were 32 or over Yannis turns 32 this December. Zaclos, only two of the 25 leading menets players in the postseason we just watched are 32 or over. Can you name him? I don't know, but Yannis spot, we've all had our Canadian adventures. Tobias Harris, who's 33 and James Hard, the other guys in that 25 most menets played in this playoffs are younger dudes. Wow. When you expand that list of 50, it's only five guys.

This is a league that is very confident. 50 minutes players in this postseason total minutes played. Only five or 32 and over Tobias Harris, James Hard and Harrison Barnes. Is he that old? I don't think so. Harrison Barnes is that old. Okay.

“But there's a few reasons for this that I think a relevant year. One is the way we're playing basketball,”

the frequency which we're playing basketball is really hard on bodies. The way Yannis plays basketball is very hard on his body. And I think it's disproportionately harder on older players. The other thing that I think is very relevant for that. That is it's very hard to achieve depth in this CBA era when you are painting one player over that age. That much money because this is a league that insists on preserving its biggest paychecks for dudes who are on the wrong

side of their prime. And then the second apron and now the aprons that Miami is dealing with. Now you have this big Yannis, you know, big, big chunk on your cap sheet. So finding depth that you're alluding to is almost engineered to be very difficult if you have one of these players on your cap sheet. And I couldn't agree more. They need Norman Powell. Not just because he's a very good player. This is a roster now that is a very, very obvious weakness from the three point line. And if they

lose Norman Powell, I don't know who on that team is going to make threes to keep up with any other good teams in this league. They're counting on Larson and I like Polo Larson a lot. It's just, it's a lot to count on. Just like I like this myth is a bench guy. I think he's had snippets of good minutes in the NBA. He's recovered from serious injury and all of that. I'd like to see

him play in the playoffs, right? Like I like Gilbert. I've always like Gilbert you get more than

Spoda. Spoda doesn't trust them and it's obvious by his rotation patterns. And so people are like,

also, or the play in, or wherever the hell they finished their season?" So, you know, I think that

that is, I fall on the side of the depth is a little worrisome and they're going to have to do some heat magic to magic up some depth. Look, they're going to be like, if Janice is healthy and bam is healthy, they're going to be a good team. I don't think there is going to be the next. And I don't think there is probably as good as Boston, although TBD on Boston. And the East is like, you know, Cleveland could go up or down. The Hawks could go up or down. The Sixers could go up or down,

or Lando is probably going to be a little better. Like the Pistons are probably going up, up up Indiana's back, right? Yeah. I, Janice is a force and he and Bam together are just going to put the kind of pressure on the rim that the heat have not. And ironically, the Celtics have not put on the rim in a long, long time. And defensively it's going to be a beast. But, you know,

“I saw I think Jared Dubin had something like, you know, the baseline for contention is like top 10 offense,”

top 10 defense and the heat should be able to achieve that. And that's like true in a very basic way. But there's a difference between like number two on offense and number seven on defense and number 10 on offense and number six on defense or number seven on defense. Like the latter is closer to just like a good, a good team. I want to go the other way though, it's like, okay, so if the heat don't do this, and this is a team that's missed out on Durant and Lillard and even going back to

Gordon Hayward, like star after star after star has they've had this hero package turned down over and over again. What are they like, what is the other path? Because I think it's very clear that this present team was topped out at like okay play and team, mid 40s team if things go better, mid 40s wins team. So like what are we doing here? At least this gives us a shot, a shot to be a contender, whereas the present state did not really give us a shot of being a contender. Now the present

state, they had most of their draft picks and they had all these young players. And even if they

“didn't believe, and I think they were correct to probably not believe that this collection of”

young players surrounded by Bam and Hero was going to develop into like a 55 win title candidate. I think that's correct on their part. Having them around gives them the flexibility to do another move that's like the next version of this youngness move it to at least try it. And then you go through and like I made a list of who are the next theoretical next stars that the heat could go chase, right? Because that's the opportunity cost is like we've lost the chance to build up this

team and pivot somewhere else. And it's like I don't know who it is. You could be waiting forever.

Is it Donovan Mitchell? He seems to be always tied to Miami and also always staying in Cleveland.

Is it Devon Booker on a gigantic contract that doesn't seem like it? Is it whoever falls out of OKC? Is anyone of the stars going to fall out of OKC? I don't know. Is it Scotty Barnes? Probably not. Is it Jalen Johnson? Is it Luca? Probably not. Probably not. You just come up

“with probably not. The hot name would be Anthony Edwards. And I saw I think it was to McMahon said,”

you know, the voters are circling around Anthony Edwards. I didn't mention this at the time. The single most talked about thing at the draft combine in May this year was this these rumblings that these rumblings that everyone in Minnesota was watching the purse strings under Mark Laurie and A. Rod and how they would and how they would spend around Anthony Edwards. Not just capitalize like the Julius Randall dump that they did this year, but just seemed to like

the way that they ran the team on a day to day basis. And there were rumblings like, oh man, and it might be looking around. And I did mention it because I called ants people and was told not to ignore that. Everything's fine. Now the voters are circling things out again and it's out publicly via Tim. That would be the one. And I just don't, I feel like that's you could wait forever

on these things and never get them. So I understand why Amy did it. They're just kind of between

like a rock and a hard place, do you think? You know, I think they're in a rock and a hard place. John Morance, the other name that had crossed my mind. I haven't done it. Not on that in years. The math. But what if words is watching late stage, Riley is them? What if we're just watching one of the great executives of this century, no, no notes, but a man who's built his teams with two of the three team building tools, trades and free agency. When you look at Presti and Brian

Wright and San Antonio and these other sort of newer younger teams, they're clearly building through the draft first, although she obviously was a trade piece. What if there's just, this is just, they're running out of ideas. They're still trying to build a team like it's 2010 and everybody's going to take their talents to South Beach and free agency. And those tools just aren't really happening nearly as much. And this is the best they can do. I think we both agree here and I would

way. Now with the way that teams are going to be able to pack the paint and defend it,

“that's it disrespectful to the other 10 offenses that I could rattle off right now that I think”

could be there in the current MBA. I don't see a top 10 offense there. I just don't, I mean, I'm the analyst guy. I don't see the three point shooting getting to the number or they need to be. That said, I think they're a guard away here and whether it's Norman Powell or, you know, John Moran, they need something else. I heard somebody else say, I think this makes them a contender to being a contender. I think that's the way I like to look at it that way. This is like

they were two steps away from being a really good team. Now to be fair, if Yannis is healthy,

I still think they're one step away. Who is the third really good player on that team?

But I don't know, given the team building constraints and realities of the CBA and the caps and the aprons that they have to navigate that they can actually do what Pat Riley is great at doing as getting the third guy to sign up here. There is an interesting thing of the extensions and the prevalence of extension sort of taking the big market clear all our caps based out and sign star free agents playbook kind of out of the league a little bit. And I think my

and Yannis feeling that and the lakers are going to feel that to some degree. But my point is just like, I get the desperation because this team had maxed out and this idea that we can, and this is going to come up in the Boston section, we can kind of hold our cards and wait for a better, we can hold our cards and try to do what the Nix did, which is make four different trades that build out the perfect team. That's really hard to do. And one of them was a five first round

pick trade from Mikhail Bridges, which was a huge risk or just wait for like the next star

where you can always be outbid where you don't know if that next star is going to be available

“or push to go to you. And that's why I brought up the ant thing, which, yeah, competing in”

tell on that. But I would assume anything that happens there is years down the road too. Let's take a quick break and talk about the Boston side of this. This episode is brought to you by Mikhail Obltra. How ready are you for the FIFA World Cup 26 every decision matters here, even yours, because Mikhail Obltra, the official beer sponsor of the FIFA World Cup 26, is giving you a chance to win a million dollars worth of tickets and prizes.

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deadlines, prizes, and details. So we agree that Miami is a good team, but probably not as of

“now a contender. I like that you said a contender to be a contender, because I think the other”

narrative I've heard about Miami that is far too extreme is, oh, Janice went from the box to another version of the box. I'm like, no, this seems going to be better than like whatever the hell of last season's bucks were trying to be. And we agree on that. We agree that the box more listed, okay, what happens here is completely TBD based on who they draft and how they trade and all that and it's a ground up rebuild that I'm sure the front office was rooting for in between

these two different packages like this gives them a runway and a timeline and sort of a long term like, hey, let us work our magic for a few years. Then there's a Celtics who based on the public reporting based on what I've heard sniffing around appear to have been willing to do something like jail and brown number 27, another first round pick, maybe another like swap or something, but we're not willing to do what it would have taken, which is probably jail and brown

three first round picks and at least one if not two of their young core players, including Google Gonzalez and maybe Bill or Shireman. So there's this sort of notion that like, if you want Janice bad enough to offer jail and brown at two first round picks, you really draw the line at Google Gonzalez, Google Gonzalez and Bill or Shireman, that's the line for you where it becomes too much. So I want to before we get to the jail and brown fall out, I want to ask you,

what do you think of Boston's decision to hold the line there of like, okay, we think we might be

able to, we might need Janice, we might need his room pressure to divers fire offense, we never

get to the room, we never get to the line, our formula appears to have worn thin in the playoffs. We might need him, we need him this much, but after this much is too much to pay, what do you think

Celtics, I would want them to to blow it up and try Janice because I just don't, I don't know,

watching the style of the Boston Celtics, how they play how fast the ball moves and the shooting and all that. It just feels like Janice would slow down a lot of that into the ball action. It would, you know, Janice is a very unique offensive player, right? To build an offense around him,

“I think bud did a great job six, seven years ago. I think keeping the young court together is great.”

I mean, the best assets in today's NBA's Act low are the, are the young, cost-controlled players, like the guys who can contribute above their number and the guys that meet Milwaukee want to Hugo and Shiremen and in those types of players, not willing to part with them because that's

called depth. I'm fine with that. There's a walk away number there. The real question I want to ask you,

and I think the league is asking, is the relationship, does this mean the relationship with the Boston Celtics and Jalen Brown is broken now? I think that's the real danger they just walked into and Brad's Steven has a potential crisis on his hand with, is Jalen Brown now done? You know, FU, you dangled me out here. I'm the only finals MVP this century, not an Ampal Pierce, and now you're going to trade me for another guy. Like, and I'm not taking sides there. I'm just saying,

like, this is an ego business. You've heard that a thousand times. Do you think that,

“though, that the Boston Celtics now have a Jalen Brown problem on their hands?”

So it's interesting, because I mentioned the opportunity cost and the optionality that the heat sort of through a way, not in a bad way, but that the choices they face, the forks in the road, the different paths they could envision by choosing on us. The same thing kind of applies in Boston, and it's not just like Hugo, Hugo Gonzalez by himself is the deal breaker, and Baylor Shiremen plus Hugo, like it's it's objectively kind of silly that they would actually be the dealbreakers

to a Yannas deal. It's just the totality reaches a point where you are choosing between all of that stuff for Yannas plus Tatum plus whatever is Derek White, that that core that's left over. You're choosing between that world and the current world where we repair the relationship with Jalen Brown, and we have all of this stuff still, and this is a proven, unlike the heat, 55, 56, 58 wind team, or see, we still have the optionality to trade Jalen Brown or trade this

all this other stuff for another star somewhere down the line, and I think the fact, I think those two roads like the status quo and the optionality of different kind of trade paths in Boston, stronger current position, I think mitigated against the totality of all that stuff for Yannas. I will say, I've heard from a couple of Eastern Conference executives who are like the opposite of you on rival teams being like, Yannas and Tatum was pretty scary, and we're glad Yannas didn't

go there. I'm like, well, if other teams are expressively, did maybe Boston make a mistake, but I get it because their president is stronger than Bayami's president, and they keep that, and they keep the future open. And Yannas is 31 and injury prone, and he would have solved a lot of their problems offensively, but he would have caused them a lot of depth and and and been in injury, or let's go ahead. So what's going on? And one more thing, when I think of the two players at the

“center of the current discussion, Yannas and Jalen Brown, I think of potential extension issues, right?”

And the other thing with Yannas is he's eligible for a four year, 275 million dollar extension,

that will go on. He's just eligible. He's getting it. He's getting it. And do you want to pay him $70 million for his year 33, year 34, year 35, year 36? That's a real question. And I know it's nerdy, and I know it's annoying, but with his injury history and the rules of the collective bargaining landscape, it's it's it's team building catastrophe if you get it wrong. And I think the same sort of challenge is facing the Celtics with Jalen Brown. And maybe the better move is a package

with Jalen Brown that gets them younger, not older in this sense. And it gets them away from another looming extension, which is Jalen Brown. By the way, you mentioned Finals MVP. This would have been two Finals MVP's traded for each other. That has to be like a unicorn event in the NBA. So I mentioned Boston, part of sort of rejecting Yannas or rejecting going all in for Yannas is faith and it's present. Well, a lot of it's present is Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum together. And they've

proven that they can win a championship. They did. They won a championship. And they were a great team last year until they went off the rails a little bit in the playoffs. And obviously, Tatum didn't play game seven. I wonder in the aftermath of this, if that present no longer exists, because

right now on June 24th at 410 PM Eastern Time after it took me three hours to go home from the

Gloria. I don't think Jalen Brown starts the season with the Celtics next year. That couldn't end up being wrong. I'm not saying it definitively. I'm saying if you made me bet, yes or no,

“Jalen Brown is a Celtic next year. I'm betting no. I think too much has happened. There are too many”

hard feelings. The hard feelings are like the Twitch stuff already sort of rankled. It didn't rankle anyone. It just sort of put out into the world. This, you know, does he want his own team? And if so, what team is that and how does Jason Tatum and the Celtics feel about that? He makes a ton of money. Is it also given that he's 29 years old? This is not four years ago when it was a young Jalen Brown for an old Kevin Durant. This is now 29 year old Jalen Brown, not old,

but approaching the sort of peak slash end of his prime. Is it time to actually sell high on Jalen Brown one way or another? And if you don't think Jalen is the vehicle to do that, there are other ways to do it. Here's the challenge. The Celtics should be operating from a mode of we're trying to win the championship every year that Jason Tatum is here and every year that we have this core that's done it before. Is there a Jalen Brown deal that's not this Jalen is deal that yes, reset us financially,

which is important. Yes, it's us some picks in some young players or whatever, but also doesn't make us materially worse in 2026, 2027, 2027, 2028. I don't know that there is. I'm happy to go through

“with you, but I think this is one of the big looming stories of the offseason is if we reach the”

end of Jalen Brown on the Celtics. There's a great old Twilight Zone episode. I'll try to do this fast, but it's the nuclear era. And these two families are very close. They live next to each other, but only one of the families at low has a fallout shelter. And sure enough, the air raid sirens start going off and one family goes into their fallout shelter. And the other family is desperately knocking,

trying to get in to the fallout shelter. And the families that are very close, the first family won't

let them in. And I bring that up because the air raids sirens stop going off. It everybody comes out of the fallout shelter at the end of the episode and the families are just looking at each other. Like that feels like Jalen Brown and the Boston Celtics right now. And I heard Dany Green with big woes earlier being like, this is just disrespectful. And you don't have to agree with this. And I talked to some Celtics fans today that, like, it's not disrespectful. You're being treated

for the one of the best players in the league. And it's fair for fans to say that. But from a player's perspective, this is disrespectful to be dangled like that. And sometimes it's a matter of fact, Zach, that these, these, these relationships are damaged beyond repair because of the stuff. And I'm not saying this is, I, I, I know for sure there's some fraying that's happened. But it's why I asked Bill and I did it just tongue-in-cheek just to be the devil's advocate two weeks ago on his

pod. I said, let's posit that you are trading one of the jays for Janice. Why is it just assumed

“that it's Jalen Brown and not Jason Tatum? Why is Jason Tatum coming off in a killie's injury still?”

Like, we have to stay still. He sat out game seven. We're not quite sure exactly what happened. Like, why is he automatically a better player than Jalen Brown right now? Even though I think Jason Tatum is a better player than Jalen Brown. He clearly has been a better player than Jalen Brown.

But I'm putting myself in the position of Jalen Brown and being like, wait a second. I'm the final

XNVP. I'm the Eastern or Conference Final XNVP. I'm the guy who just carried this team to 56 wins without Jason Tatum. He hasn't done that. Yeah, he's made first team all MBAs. I haven't done that. He's been ahead of me in the pecking order rightfully. So he's a better shooter, probably a better playmaker, probably a better defender too. But like, but, but, but is he still? Is he still? And I asked the question, talking and cheek, but if I'm Jalen Brown, I'm like, at some point, yeah,

sure it's Kevin Durant. It's Anthony Davis, maybe back in the day. It's a bit, it's who it's, and now it's Janice, like it's great. It's an honor just to be nominated. Like, I thought I won the Oscar already. Like, I thought I had done enough to not be in these discussions. And so I don't know, man, I think it's, uh, I think it's going to be interesting. You want to hear some fake Jalen Brown trades? You have a fake Jalen Brown trades? No, I'm not good at that, like you and Bill.

All right. I'll just go through some possibilities. I don't even know where I start. I mean, the clippers, I don't, let me, let me, let me, like, Bill had mentioned the clippers as a 13 and the number five pick. I said all along. I think I was in the lottery room when the clippers

beginning, they understood what a gift from the basketball gods and the lottery gods for us, who traded our way out of control over our own picks and perpetuity. You gave Sam Presby a freaking time share in our franchise, basically. What a gift for us to get a shot at a blue chip

reset young guy. I just never thought they were trading it, so they're out. Bill has mentioned

the pelicans a lot with trade Murphy, you know, and like you can build a million different pelicans combinations and just like do they, are they desperate to get a franchise player, etc. I mean, sure, I don't, I don't necessarily see those timetables lining up. Portland was mentioned a lot as a 13, including by me. I liked the idea of Jalen Brown to Portland, Janice to Boston, assets, including Milwaukee's own picks, back from Portland to Milwaukee. Portland has a lot of

flexibility. You could say, hey, look, clinging, Danny, like these are like Danny, particularly when now kind of player. Like like at some point, we got to just give ourselves a shot. Like just hey, if we get lucky and we get some injuries to the other teams, maybe we're in a game six against San Antonio or Oklahoma City and not completely outclassed. Maybe they control most of

“their picks. I don't, I don't know if they love the Danny Jalen fit. I think that's interesting.”

Houston is just keep surprising me that they don't come up in any of this talk. Oh, that's a good one. I have, I frankly have not heard that they're super into Jalen Brown. That could change, but that's whatever for now. You could do a mole belief for Jalen Brown swap with the cast. I feel like the cast aren't going to be ready for that. Dido for like the magic, pick one of the stars in Orlando. It's, it's, it's, so that's a little seismic. I'll tell you one. I really like Michael Porter's

junior and some net straff picks to Boston or some draft assets that the net control rather, let's say, to Boston for Jalen Brown. And then that's get a dose of like relevance that they desperately need. They have 9,000 young guards and they're going to be bad again. I don't know what their appetite for relevance immediately is. Again, relegation zone sort of plays into this and they don't control their picks so they're in that same box like, hey, we're relegated. We're relegated,

but not our problem, rockets problem. You know, people talked about the Kings for a long time.

I just, again, you could, you could do Keegan, Murray and whatever. They were never going to

trade the seventh pick for Jalen Brown. That's too crazy. Even for the Kings. It's, it's not, it's not, and, and Atlanta is the other one because Jalen is from Atlanta. And making the money match is not that easy for the Hawks. Like, Kominga, 24, 3 would have to be in it. I mean, do you do Kominga and Dyson Daniels in a million picks? Do you do Kominga and Risa Shee and Kispert and a million picks is, is that even interesting for Boston? Like, it's not as easy

as you would think to build a Hawks deal. So I'm interested. Like, I know there's interest in Jalen Brown. I'm interested if they actually do it. What's the trade that helps them reset the finances, re-stock for the future? And doesn't harm them in the short term because I'm having trouble finding

“one. But those are my best shots. Any other, any other's, strike your fancy?”

No, I know that, you know, Dallas seems interesting to me because they have new leadership. They have front court players that could be interesting to a team that, you know, I think lost largely because of a smaller front court against the bigger team. And now you're looking at the sixers who just beat you in in Carl Anthony towns and the next. Nothing jumps out. I've heard Portland to your point. We've heard Portland. I've heard the Clippers. I don't know. I don't know. I've

actually heard Atlanta doesn't love Jalen Brown in the past. But anything is possible. This is a guy who, what? He finished fifth in the MPP voting, right? Fifth, fifth, fifth or sixth this year. I don't know how the Clippers are doing it. Honestly, they have all this, like, expiring slots on that's not going to be interesting to Boston. They have Garland who's not going to be interested in the Boston with paid-in-purchaded Derek White already there. They have Kauai,

which is just a whole can of worms and, you know, while so lifted, rosy and cats still kind of the billable hours. Did they interview you yet, Kirk? I mean, they haven't waited for them to call me.

“It's June 24th, Walktell. What are we doing, man? How many more billable hours you need?”

The thing we recorded that episode, I think the morning after the story first broke. And so maybe

we'll get interviewed. How did you know that? But no, I am ready for that song at end, by the way, NBA and Walktell. No, I don't know where Jalen goes. But you said, and I think the most provocative thing you've said today is that you do not expect. If you had to say the Jalen Brown will

he's got to go. And one thing we know, real trade, travel, and silence, shout out, Jay, Don Dey. It could be anybody. It could be Indiana. Who knows? It could be a number of teams.

“But I think Portland is the team I've heard the most in this sort of week or two beyond Milwaukee.”

But it could be anybody. This is a great player. They don't grow on trees. Finals on VPs don't grow on trees. He's just demonstrating. You can carry a pretty sort of rag tag group to success. And for the exact same reason, Miami just traded everything to get on us. You could see a team. Hey, we could get, we could get Jalen for less than that. Let's go. This is our chance. I just don't know when. I'm trying to think like, what is the asset

that the blazers have that really moves me if I'm the Celtics? And I'm like, all right, I can get through holiday back for two years, a 34 and a half out Jeremy Grant. Like, one of those guys has to be in the deal just financially clean and yeah, like, clean, that they're not going to do clean and scoot Anderson. That's not an interesting, but like, I still need like 40 million more dollars to make the map bill. Bill Simmons. I still think

has his good stock. So that could that could be good for content. I just don't know sort of the mechanics of that one. I mentioned before, by the way, about Miami and optionality,

it always, it always must be repeated that every time you say a team like, well, they've sort of

closed the door on some pathways by trading all this stuff for Ionis. There is always the world in which you flip it somewhere else down the line and get stuff back. But that's down the line. Yeah, I don't know. Matt Boston is going to be interesting. I mean, I expect them to completely, not completely, but pretty significant changes in their front court going forward into next

“season. I think that was one of the appeals of Ionis. I would get some slash educated guests that”

they had, if we do get Ionis here, some stretch five type players that we could get, you know, Isaiah Stewart, Jail and Smith from the Bulls, guys like that. But obviously they didn't get Ionis and now it's going to be sort of back to the drawing board. And that, in that sense, and you know, it's, it would be, it would be interesting to see where he would end up and yeah, I even picked like the rockets. I remember thinking like, could they trick, would they do a

Durant for Jail and Brown deal and, and how much of a fun reversal would be from four years ago. And it was like Jail and Brown plus assets for Durant would now be Durant plus assets for Jail and Brown given how the age and developmental cursive have changed. But who the hell knows, man? I don't, I don't know. Like, wild, wild weekend the NBA. You want to take a break and then talk

“about some of the other wild stuff that happened in the NBA? Sure. Okay. Other NBA business”

circles. Very CJ McCollum one year, 21 million dollars. No notes. Love the deal for the Hawks.

They became super hard to guard. Once they got another ball handler in the door because if you're going to hide, you're weak defenders on dice and Daniels. You can't hide them anywhere else because now there's no other safe place with a ball handler like CJ W. So now with Kingston Fleming's into the or he's interesting. Phoenix, Colin Gillespie four years, 48. Jordan Goodwin, three for 19. No notes. Good signings. Phoenix has some interesting starting lineup.

Decisions to make in their long-term futures little murky with their lack of draft assets. But let's see more Fleming, more Malawatch and both those guys, uh, Gillespie and Goodwin are good

players on good deals. Tray young four years 200 something million dollars. The fourth year is a player

option. I got to say Kirk didn't expect this big of a number for Tray. Not really sure even what to make of it. They just drafted AJ to Bansa not a guard. They have a lot of wings and bigs on the team of many of whom are young. And now they have Tray young. Is there is their point guard? I have, I have, I got a lot of, I don't even know. I'm like baffled. This is so much money and so many years for Tray young.

And I would put it to you like this. This is the kind of deal. There's one of two things must have happened here. Number one, number one, this was all pre-ordained upon the trade. This is what's going to happen. This is the deal. Number two, or some combination these two. Number two, we actually feared that he had a max deal out there somewhere. I have no earthly idea where it was. It doesn't, from what I know it was not Brooklyn. They have a lot of, they have a lot of guards already.

Chicago has, has point giddy. The lakers have guards galore and we're, the,

I've heard rumblings that there was maybe a little truth to the Miami. Can we put used Tray young

“is like a desperation backup plan of all other plans for Janice and Kauai and whatever fall through.”

That would have had to have been a sign-in trade that you cooperate with. So I'm not sure about that. I don't know what they were afraid of. I don't know who they were bidding against. They must have been bidding against either themselves or someone because this is the most money they could have given Tray young other than the fifth year. It's as much money as any other team could have given Tray young, which suggested they feared that he had a max. And let's just posit that they actually

thought that, right, that they believed that there was a max out there for him. Then you just face a very simple question, Kirk. We either max them out to the we either pay him this, the equivalent of another team's max or we don't have Tray on our team. Like it's a pretty, it's a pretty black and white choice. Like we can lowball him and trying to get cute and he's walking. There's no magical in this scenario where they think that there's a max or they know there's

a max out there for him. There's no magical. What if we can get him back for three years, 120, like he's just gone. And so then I just asked you, Baldi, would you rather not have Tray young at all or have you on this deal? I'd rather not have Tray young on my basketball team. And I think a lot of people run a league. Not your basketball team. Not your basketball team. This specific Washington Wizards basketball team. I'd rather not have a. I'd rather take my chances with my

young players in my guards. I can't believe the numbers. They have to pay Tray young going forward given what we've seen from Tray on over the last few years. I mean, the team that had him and

“had his rights gave him away. And now you're watching. And if you want to look at the data,”

you look at on off numbers from the last few years. They're not exactly nuanced. He hadn't made the Hawks a better basketball team when he was on the floor, particularly on one end of the floor. That we call the defensive end of the court. And now that teams are smarter and smarter, about exposing weak links on that end of the court, guards like Tray young have lower value around the league than they did previously. I am shocked by this contract. I know the bill

and woes and house are going to be joking about it in March when they do their worst contracts podcast. I just can't believe it. And in a week where they also, the get the potentially franchise player, AJ DeBonza into their system, this is the story that you and I are talking

about more. That's just really, really weird. And to your first point, people around the league,

I talk to you said it was pre-ordained. And I'm not reporting that. I don't know. But that's when you ask people around the league why this happened. Who are they bidding against? No, buddy. This must have had to be pre-ordained. I can't find the pre-ordained. I can't find the team newer bidding. I like that framing of either this deal or no deal. Because that makes it, that makes you this in hard about it. Because if I were to defend this deal, here's how I would defend it.

Number one, I've got to hit the salary floor in two years. And I have no better in contracts at all on my books for 2028 to 2029. Even Anthony Davis is gone. By the way, this price point for Tray young very much indicates to me just putting two and two together that Anthony Davis is a short-term rental for the wizards. I just don't see any world in which in three seasons they're paying those

guys $129 million dollars combined. It just makes no sense at all. And so in 2028, 29, I mean,

SARS New Deal will kick in George's New Deal will kick in Bob Carrington as the team. I don't know like that's and then they have the rookie deals. So they need money on their books, right? That's number one. Number two, you know, the opportunity cost is I could have so much caproom to throw at every young free agent in the league. Jail and Durn, if I love him, Max opera sheet, Austin Reeves, here's a Max. Now you just got Max for the leaders. We'll talk about that in a second. Payton Watson,

whatever, what are your hopes and dreams? We'll fulfill them for you. And if we don't get those guys at least we've inflicted pain on their teams who have to match those offer sheets or, you know, match our offer. And then we can take on dead money and get draft picks like we just saw the nets do with Julius Randall. That's the opportunity cost that you're missing. In their defense, I saw someone so they think he could go get a young player like Austin Reeves. Austin Reeves is older

“than Tray Young. Tray Young is still only 27 years old. I think he has become someone somewhat”

underrated as a legit offensive engine who's going to be motivated and will make life easier for

Another defense would be the lottery rules and the relegations zone, both the wizards avoiding

“the relegations zone and players like Tray Young who are floor racers, but perhaps not ceiling”

racers having value on the market to other teams for that reason so that we could flip in and all that. All of that said, I would rather not have them, I would rather not have them than have them on this deal. I'd rather do all those other things that I talked about with my cat flexibility. If only for this reason, I just don't have a lot of faith based on what I've seen that he's going to be a mental amenable to playing any other style on offense. Forget the defense as a son costs, right? We're

all going to have to play hard and make up for his defensive limitations. I have not seen any evidence that he's going to be amenable to playing any style other than Tray ball, tons of picking rules, stationary off the ball, occasionally flirting with the idea of setting some off ball screens and moving. Now he does run and pushed the pace and throw a hit ahead. He's gotten more committed to that, which I like. But I'm just like, I understand all these young guys like Tray Johnson need some

spoon-feeding. So I understand all that. I just kind of want them to do more than what they're

going to be able to do if Tray on plays like he's always played and I'd rather just explore

other opportunities than than this. I couldn't believe the number. I thought for sure if there were something pre-ordained and I'm not saying there was. I've no proof that there was. I don't know that there was that it was not going to just be like, oh, just the max. Just the max and other

“team could give me that's what for like four years with a player option. If that, like if that,”

I just don't see what the upside really of that is for Washington. And it may be there'll be first gear and we expect it all that but just strange all the room. They have so many decent players on cost control. I think the one case for Zack low is we can overpay this guy because all of our other guys are young and on cost control except for Anthony Davis. So you talked about. But you mentioned the word pain in there somewhere and I think that's sort of a concept

with some of these four-year deals we're starting to see at these massive numbers and again, I've been harping on it but like it feels like the fatal flaw on today's MBA is not the mid-range jumper. It is overpaying an older player who is not a great player. It feels like if you have one of these giant numbers on your cap sheet, pack it in. You're not going, you're not competing with a team like the nicks or the spurs or the thunder that are just so deep and so wide that they can

“just punish you. And it's signing up for Trey Young. It just feels, honestly, it feels so wizarded.”

Good. Yeah, I was, again, like I think he's become underrated. I think it, like I disagree with you, dude. I'll disagree with you on that. That's fine. I, I, I, I don't, I would not have done this to be clear. Yeah. But I also don't think that doing it is some like fatal, horrible mistake. I think there will be moments in next season even months where it's like, we're going to see the stories like, oh, did the wizards actually hit the hit a home run here with Trey Young because he's

helping in this way. And that way, I still wouldn't have done it. I don't think it's like a disaster, but I'm glad, again, he's only 27. But I'm glad you mentioned the tons of money to players who are somewhere between, say, the 25th and 45th best player in NBA. And that's relevant for a couple of reasons. Number one, the Julius Randall salary dump should, should alarm everybody who has one of those players. And he makes less than Trey Young's going to make that they don't have value on the

trade market. It's like, I should have mentioned for Jalen Brown could, could the raptors do something like Brandon Ingraham? Yeah, for Jalen Brown. Well, like Brandon Ingraham, you're going to have to attach just like a lot of stuff to get to Celtics to be enticed by that contract, even though it's not very long. Forget the quickly and fertile disaster contracts. I do think that makes some sense for the raptors to pursue, by the way, I would sniff around Jalen Brown if I were them, I'm not them.

Julius Randall to the nets, along with, and the wolves then move five spots down in this draft. They trade numbers 28 in Julius Randall, and they get number 33, and the bulls get in there and get Claxton, which is fine. I was even knowing that the, the wolves faced an apron crunch

resigning IO, which they then did to five years under $12 million. Good deal. As a good player,

that's fair money for a good starting guard, even like a starter six man, kind of guard. Even knowing that I was stunned that they were just like, yeah, we can't pay. We can't pay. Sorry, sorry, and sorry team that's made conference finals conference finals second round

in Nas Reed stepping in as a starter. That's going to work fine. In Barrenjay playing more,

they're super high. I'm Barrenjay. In Terran Shannon, Junior playing more as a small ball for,

“they had, like, I think to me, the wolves are unquestionably like going to be a little bit worse,”

and certainly a little less diverse without Julius Randall. I don't know if they're going to be like that much worse, given all those backup plans. But if I'm, and the end of words are really go bare and Chris Finch, I'm like, why do we have to be worse at all? Why, why can't we just pay all of these people to make a run at it? And I'd be depressed by that trade, even though they get some flexibility and all those guys are ready. I was shocked that they just

completely dumped Julius Randall and at how little value that they dumped him for. Obviously, this speaks very highly of the Nixon to the cat trade, and that is so over is to be over over my face on that. That's fine. I was just like, I was like, whoa, that's, and if the Voltures are circling at the end, where it's in, they are. I don't think there's anything from the Peck Act quite yet. If I were at the end, words, unless I just fucking hated playing with Julius

Randall, I would be going to Mark Lore and Aero to be like, what did we just do? We can't pay, we can't pay any of these guys together. What are we trying to do? I was looking at his playoff game logs. Oh, it's ugly. It's ugly. It's ugly. So maybe something there. Does this really back to your point about the purse strings in the new ownership? Where are you going to connect those dots with, with connect the dots Aero? Yes, what dots? There's just a line, man. Like,

“there's no design. Yes. So I think as somebody who watched the NBA Plast very closely,”

particularly that that spurs timorable series as a lot of those games, to his Randall, one of eight, six of 17, five of 12, three of 12, four of 10, six turnovers, one game, five another game. The assists not there. It was painful to watch in a series where Anthony Edwards was limited. Julius Randall was not the answer. And I think they just had, they probably, I don't know who's voices were in the room. But clearly, somebody's like, we can't have this guy on our team at these

numbers. And then they did do the de sumo deal, which I think is it's telling. I think they like playing with him. I thought that was a great deadline trade. By the way, I don't think a lot of people forgot about that. That was a great deal. But yeah, now what? And so I think I heard Bill saying earlier this week, are we starting to see a new kind of trade or new kind of machination with

you mentioned the relegation zone? And I really think Julius Randall is the first mascot of some

kind. You can help me frame this up. But just like, we're going to be bad next year, but we don't want to be that bad. We don't want to be very bad. Except the next one control their own pick, the rockets have the right to swap picks with them next year. Maybe this is two years away. That's exactly what that's where you're the best. Yeah. But you got like, are we starting to see sort of bad teams? Like, we want to not not be bad, but I don't know. Like, what is the

point of this from a net's perspective? Well, I think what did you just see from Julius Randall that bun you to get into the Julius Randall business? Now, I will say the second conference finals run, he was outstanding and played the best basketball of his career. And he should at least get credit for that. And when I say the bulls will be less diverse and maybe a little bit worse without

“Julius Randall, I think his regular season stuff matters. You have to play the 82 games. Yeah.”

And as Reed gets hurt, if Barrenja doesn't develop as fast enough, if Terran Shannon Jr is yanked in an outdoor rotation again, you're going to feel the lack of like, hey, at least we can throw this out there. And it's like 21 and five every night despite the warts and the playoffs, the playout warts in particular. Tray young, I think, is a relegation zone guy before like I said, although I forgot even like the wizards, wizards can't pick number one next year. That's also

the, at least they, the best they can do is to because of this new, this new system. Austin Reeves to me is a different, but by, maybe he's not. I mean, Austin Reeves just got signed according to Sean's four year max deal with the lakers at what is it like 40 and a half a year or something like that. Yeah. And they still have cap space to work with as much as 40 something

million dollars assuming eight and opposite and if eight and doesn't opt in, someone should be

giving a better advice. And obviously LeBron, they'd have to renounce LeBron to get to that number and there are things they could do with that number that are interesting. But I think it's, it's, it's

to talk about these players who are somewhere between the 20th and 40th best players in the NBA,

“making 30% of the cap or whatever it ends up being, I think we have to talk about Austin Reeves too.”

I think Austin Reeves is really good. Again, he's not as young and rising as people think he is. He's 28 years old. So this pays him through his prime. It pairs him with Luca, which I think offensively is a proven powerhouse pairing. And it also is going to make it a high wire rack for the lakers to surround those two guys, whether LeBron comes back or not with the kind of personnel that's going to be able to compete with San Antonio and Oklahoma City and on and on in the Western

Conference as Luca approaches his apex prime as well. I mean, like Austin Reeves in a vacuum, this is what he's worth. This is what the marketplace is going to say he was worth. He was going to get a max from someone. He's a wildly productive offense player. What it made the all-sour team less sure he had been healthy. And it's like Luca's already shown. Secondary

ball handler next to him is a very powerful formula, particularly when they can run pick and roll

with each other a little bit because of the size, discrepancy in the defenders. It's like, and again, if you're the lakers, they're holding the lemma this offseason was user to lose it. Like if we don't bring back Austin Reeves, we have to replace Austin Reeves. I don't know how

“we do that and he's a really good player. So you're kind of just doing it because you have to and you”

like the player. But I don't what do you think of this deal? It's in a lot of ways, it's a no-brainer you knew it was coming. But I think the construction of the team around them is going to be quite interesting. It reminds me of the old Dame CJ Blazers now. I don't think I had a better idea. I think they like he said it's a no-brainer. They had to do this. What are they going to do? Let him go? That's a terrible move. You have to do it. You have the asset on our control now. Maybe you do something different

and drastic in a year or two. I think when people like you and me look at the lakers of the next few years, I'm not sold that a back court of Austin Reeves and Luca Donchich is getting you just like with that CJ Dame team over the top in the Western Conference. So from a caproom perspective, I think he's getting from the strategy perspective getting the asset under control was the right move. Did they commit to the full four years? Or did they try to get creative and move him down the road?

I think that's a possibility. But again, like what did we just see about the now? He's a little bit more malleable than Julius Randall is because of his, he's a playmaking guard who can shoot threes and like you could fit that anywhere. But these deals are just like, once you get into this with Luca and Austin Reeves and in a world where there's a Dylan harbour, Stefan Castle, Shay Gills, just a tender Anthony Edwards, Jamal Murray. The list goes on in Darious Garland, Stefan Curry. Like,

“you have to defend guards in the Western Conference and this team is not equipped to do it.”

They're not equipped to do it. So I think it's fair to question the long-term architecture of the most proud franchise in the association putting all of this money in a defensive back court that is clearly not up to the task of stopping their contemporaries around the league. So I applaud the transaction here in June, 2026. I do. I don't think they had a choice. I think the most interesting questions that Chloe is, is that the right thing for them in 27 and 28? I don't know. I don't know.

I mean, again, I think it's the right thing for them now. I don't know sort of how they build the team to a point where they could compete with those two teams. So I will say like, I think the Dame CJ comp is a little disrespectful to Luca. I just think that's okay. Luca is a different guy,

an MVP level player, though he's never wanted a predatory genius offensive force with size

that those guys even damage. It gets three bounds. All should on my own take a little bit. I don't think that's fair. The larger defensive concern is legitimate. I just think Luca is a different sort of offensive wizard and an offensive machine's fair because of his size and his physicality combined with his just insane passing ability from independent. And if he's healthy, and again, his health is an endless sort of like kind of like Janice, like it's just he's got

to be healthy at the right time. They're going to be able to score on anybody pretty much. It's just the other end of the floor that it get in there in the wrong conference. But I don't

Like that was another one for Jalen Brown where I had thought, you know, two weeks ago and I was

mapping out fake Jalen Brown trades. I thought it all a sign and trade with Austin Reeves and some stuff for Jalen Brown just kind of like that's that makes a lot of sense. There's a Luca sidekick three like better defender and shoot, but that appears to be well, here's the same before we move off. Because I know you're ready to move off. You've talked enough, Lakers. Let's give some love back to Jared Dubin. What did he say? The path to contention top 10 offense, top 10 defense.

The Lakers were the number 10 offense in the league last year. They're number 20 defense. Like, they need to get better on defense. And I guess the skeptical take on the Austin Reeves commitment here is like that's not helping them get better on defense anytime soon. I mean, there's other thing they need to address. But if the Lakers are going to be a top 10 defense, like the Dallas Mavericks achieved with Luca and a secondary ball handler to great effect,

they need to really get better on the defense event at the court with the front court players.

“And I really like Austin Reeves's player. I think he's worth this contract. It's just”

it'll be interesting to see where it goes from here. The last thing I want to say with you, I've forgotten this. The other big news is Mike and Nory hired as the Portland head coach on a one year deal with team options in the two years after that. I feel bad for Mike and Nory and I feel like everybody around him from his agents to the blazers should be fucking embarrassed that they just signed a proven MBA assisted coach.

He's been ready for this job for a long time to a one year prove it deal. I think all the coaches should be furious on his behalf. I just find that whole. That's like Rinky think BS. And I hope Mike and Nory does really well. And they tear up those team options and give him a gigantic raise because that's who he would deserve. But I I thought that was like he's ready. He's paid his dues. He's been in high leverage playoff games. He's been the acting head coach when

Chris Finch was injured. Like he's paid all the dues. He's been in all different kinds of situations. I just I just I mean it's like it's easy for me to say I can't believe that contract. I can't not even believe that the blazers offered it with with like actual clear eyes and thinking I I have not heard much like that for like a new higher. But maybe I shouldn't have been surprised when they showed no interest in the guy you've helped save their season last year. And Tiago

“Squitter who's now the coach of the bulls. Yeah and Tiago won a playoff game and you know I think”

what that we saw him leave. That was pretty stunning. And if you talk to people around Tiago's like they wasn't going to take that kind of nonsense from from that. Mike and Nory is ready to be a coach in this league. Everybody loves Mike and Nory. They thought very highly of this is a good higher from a blazer's perspective. But you're right to zero in on that contract. That's bizarre is unprecedented. I'm not going to say it's disrespectful. You know you get paid millions of

dollars the coach basketball. But it is it's unprecedented. I wonder if you used to use the plural right there and I hope it's the plural for on behalf of Mike and Nory. But oh my gosh but let's hope let's hope he thrives and this is this is all good because yeah people love him and he's a huge part of that that the Senate will see him over the last few years. You mentioned conference

finals conference final second round ran into the to the spurs this year with a banged up

“ant man. You know I think he's a good assistant coach but I hope that's not the last thing”

you wanted to talk to me about what's that shirt you're wearing and what are you doing back to La Gordia. Yeah before I bring on Good Bondi to talk draft I just I was so appreciative that when the NBA moved the draft up by a couple of days that so that it fell on the day of the Croatian game that we brought about tickets to build was like just go we'll figure it out just to a podcast two days later the day later it's going to be fine. It was so even beyond my expectations

in terms of the intensity and the excitement it was absolutely amazing. Croatia 1100. I don't want to get in put my soccer analyst had on because it's on the qualified. I think my wife was a little upset at the Croatia fans so I we sat my wife and my daughter and I sat together her sister and her daughter set elsewhere so there are five of us at the game. I would say Croatia fans outnumbered Panama fans like 10 to one probably as a huge Croatian diaspora in Toronto and it was super fun

in that regard but she was like the Panama fans are louder than us that's not okay and she was

motion like I've never seen her like this. She was like come on like we can't just cheer

when the teams playing well like they were really struggling in the first half it was not a great

side of you that I've not seen look Croatia came second in 2018 and third in 2022 this is a country of

“3.8 million people it's 3.9 million people it's like it's crazy this team doesn't have it. I love”

I love it they just like the old guys are too old and we did we didn't really realize it but we saw Luke and Luca Motri she's 200 to 200 so yeah only four three other players have done that and they tossed him up in the air afterwards and one of the coolest things was when they took him out of the game and like the 80th minute and this is something they do knows they take Luca Motri out of games because he's 40 the whole crowd including the panome the panome media and guys next to me who are

delightful I made friends with all of them were chanting Luca Motri that's cool even they joined in so we saw that and then you look the old guys are old the young guys are unproven and our best player guardian defensive player broke his leg like six months ago and it's just

returning to fitness and was actually benched him in the second half between defensive and bad

but we found out and I was thinking just that halftime I sound like we traveled far

“it's a privilege to be able to go to any of these games I get it that was like I've just really”

I mean my wife is Croatian through and through they moved because of the war they relocated because of the war she's still considered as at her home she's happiest when she's around her people our trips there every summer are not like optional vacations there returns to her homeland it's extremely important for her that our daughter has Croatian stuff in her blood and her roots and I was like I just I just want her to see them win so badly and then they go up one zero

and they end up winning the game unbeknownst to me the entire area around the BMO stadium then becomes a Croatian party where all the fans stay there's like a DJ playing Croatian music everyone is singing and dancing I went to order drinks from my wife and her sister I was trying to stay sober because the NBA draft was going on I was following and sending texts at the same time and sure enough the guy gets out the one of the bartenders gets out of the line comes up to us

and it's like hey I just want you to know like this hasn't happened yet but we're running out of

“all alcohol and I was like yeah man the Croatians are here it's like that's what's going to happen like”

I know the Scottish people got a lot of press for that in Boston and he was like all the Croatians the Croatians are go at it like that and the guy behind me was the Croatians like oh yeah you're not could have any alcohol by the internet and just my wife has tons of videos on Instagram of her singing and dancing it's like one of the happiest moments I've ever seen her and like my daughter was there singing and dancing I'm just so glad that they won was not a convincing when it was

one zero they have a game left against Ghana that might be yeah my entire game went win the but if the atmosphere was super intense I got to tell you Kirk I'm not a big soccer guy until World Cup comes around and maybe it would be different if I followed like like a like a club team where you have a regular season with lots of games and like there's chances to make up for bad losses or whatever these games are fucking agony it's just an agony like it's not even fun

every every time Panama gets the ball I'm just like I can't even watch I can't watch it's it's just agony but it was super fun and I was glad to be able to go yeah it sounds magical dude I love the World Cup I'm glad you got I'm trying to go if anybody has a ticket just let me know but no I think you didn't see Croatia with your wife and your kid that's a real special moment proud of you as your friend for doing it I'm also jealous I want to go I want to see it team USA looks great

Croatia I mean that one nil that's that's a tough group you got a win a win a win a win and I was sitting there at half time I was like they're not playing well they cleaned up they cleaned up

a lot of them stayed they played well in the second half but I had some of them I was like I just

just give me one bit of magic just like there's one mask of all equivalent to that though dude just just one moment of magic could swing the whole game and we got it and it was awesome and uh yeah it was what it was uh it was a lot of fun what can I tell you there's no there's no basketball equivalent to holding on to a one goal lead for like the last 20 minutes when the tactics change and it feels like the the team behind just has the ball threatening over and it feels like time stands still man so

uh but congrats to you and family and all the Croatian fans it sounds like an awesome time up in Toronto it was a lot of fun all right Kirk goes very thanks for your time but thanks for going over all the stuff with me and now it's time to bring in Jonathan Gavoni because the draft was last night it was all chalk but that doesn't mean there's nothing to talk about Gavoni's here that's coming up all right Jonathan Gavoni is here the NBA draft the first round at least was last night the second

round is today was a lot of chalk but still lots of interesting things starting at the top the wizards take AJ defense and you talk despite you know some people thinking that they might

all along and I don't think they're trading up and I and I my gut was they're going to take

Peterson if he's there I never really got the concerns to the degree there were any that Darren

Peterson and Kianta George is an awkward fit on offense defensively there might be some growing pains but they're going to be surrounded by size I love that Utah was just like yeah cool like we could get camp booser he might end up being the most productive player from the straps certainly at a case for the number one pick we're going to take an upside shot on a guy who fits

“exactly what we need positionally and I think this team's going to be super exciting next year”

um what have you heard from the fallout of that pick is is Peterson and his camp are they are they if they come to grips with this are they worried about the Kianta George fit is this going to be a home run what let's start there I think Peterson you know he always wanted to go one and so once it became obvious that he wasn't going to be the number one pick the wizards actually told him this several days ago that he is not going to be the number one pick that is you know

it started this whole chain of events with the Utah Jazz front office traveling to Canton, Ohio to meet with Darren Peterson to watch him work out to really start this process of making him comfortable with the idea of playing for the Utah Jazz and he's saying all the right things he looks generally happy to to be with the jazz I mean it's a great spot for him they have a wide open spot there at that two guards five with Kianta George who can also play off the ball

and so you know there's a lot of room there to grow for Darren Peterson they have a pretty interesting roster here and now with with Larry Markin in with Darren Jackson Jr you know and so

“I think it's there's there's a lot of interesting pieces here and so I mean I can't I mean Darren”

Peterson looks happy and there's nothing from that to be happy I mean he's in a great spot with a great coaching staff and a wonderful city and so I think it's it's really a home run for him and this is going to be a great opportunity for him to show that he should have been the number one pick you know this is going to be at the bait that you know we're going to it's going to be going on for for years and years and so it's going to be really interesting to see how how does it pan out

you know also with with Kambuser as well you know like these are three guys who all had a really legitimate claim to be number one picks and it's an awesome draft crop at the top and so I can't wait to see how it plays out especially in Washington you know with with AJ de Bonza and Tre Young you know like we haven't has Tre Young ever really had like a mid post ISO guy like AJ de Bonza who's at the best with the ball on his hands you know playing in the mid range playing

“out of the post out of the mid post creating his own shot you know Washington just hands it Tre Young”

an incredible contract essentially a max deal you know which you don't really surprised a lot of

people around the NBA I mean there was some thought that yeah you know the wizards you know they they traded for Tre Young when his value was at the absolute lowest basically at the Hawks essentially gave Tre Young away which you know really kind of we thought open the pathway for the wizards to to go and get him on a value contract that's not what happens here and so you know if you're the wizards now you really need to make progress now I mean now is the time to take all these

pieces that you have all these young guys which are young you know as your veteran guide the leader of your team and we want to see Tre Young now you know like can you be a guy that can drive winning this has been the question about Tre Young since he was in high school is he a guy that you can win with is he someone that teammates enjoy playing with is he a guy that you know that that can be the face of your franchise and and and and win at the high some there were glimpse of

a glimpse of that in Atlanta there were you know fleeting moments ultimately you know things went

south there and they and they basically they gave him away to the wizards so it's a great opportunity now for Tre Young to take age of the bonds that under his wing we've heard that Tre Young and Anthony Davis haven't been around Washington a whole lot yet you know the young players they're kind of looking around saying hey or these guys gonna make an appearance at some point you know like are they gonna show up and show some leadership skills and guide these guys now is the moment for

you know for Anthony Davis and Tre Young to come in and and take these guys and and and lead them to the playoffs and maybe you know try and make some noise in the playoffs because the East there isn't opportunity here is Zach for a team like Washington to do something in the East. I wonder how many times a day Anthony Davis has the realization that he's on the washing of wizards if he's just like going about his day ordering Chipotle or something and he looks oh I'm wearing

a wizards yes right I'm on the wizards oh my god when did that happen um okay can't boozer no notes killables who know notes both those teams are thrilled they should be thrilled

interesting um regular to the clippers or wogler I always forget which is it again wogler

“wogler that's what I thought um I said at the draft combine that all the buzz was that the”

clippers were gonna take wogler and they did and I think that's a good a good pick on them. The next pick you're gonna have to show me on the killbrown a little bit um I watch two games that's all I watch on not a draft guy I was not terribly impressed the next take him over a cuff Fleming's buries who I really like and I like the box I like the box buries aiment combo aiment's polarizing we can talk about him later um Kingston Fleming's is clever

and I like him too what is the net see in terms of how McHale Brown Jr fits within you know I yagor Joeman and and Treori and Seraph and all the point cards they have and maybe they've already sort of decided we can't make decisions based on who we have but tell me on that fit I mean it was really a question of McHale Brown versus Darious Acuff there and it comes down to and there's some you know it's a very interesting comparison there you know they're

the same position essentially and I mean Darious Acuff had a much better season than McHale Brown McHale Brown you know up until uh let's say January of of 2026 he was widely considered the better prospect of the two we saw what he did at the under 19 word he was like he was the number one high school guy right among these guys was near the highest rated high school he was he was I mean I mean it depends who you asked they were I mean Darious Acuff was very highly regarded too

but you know you saw what what McHale Brown did in in the month of November for example that game against Kentucky you know biggest rivalry on Louisville schedule 29 points five assists

you know it was an incredible performance you know for the first part of the under 19 world cup

he was the best guy on that U.S.A team which also featured age of the bonds up it featured co-op you know Tyron Stokes more as Johnson Jordan Smith this was a loaded group of players at the U.S. brought um and you know at six foot five and shoes six seven and a half wingspan you know the ability to get anywhere he wants on the floor changing speeds playing off crossover hesitation moves getting to his spots you know the ability to pass at a very high level with with both hands finish

in the lane makes shots off the bounce you know all very very high level the talent is is off the charts you know if I'm the Brooklyn nets I see you know like 30 seconds after the pick this guys you know sits down and and you know they're asking him hey you know two months ago you could barely get out of bed you're your back was so messed up it's not that the the introduction that I want you know as a Brooklyn nets fan and that was one of the questions about McElp Brown you know

like he had this injury riddled season you know you know you know could he play could he not was he did he shut it down to early he came back he you know he had a you know dropped like 49 in the game and then shut it down after that so he was a gentleman he hurt that's going to be something but the physical is it checked out so it's going to be interesting comparison to see how how this

“plays out you know for for Brooklyn after drafting all those punk arts last year you know I think”

him and the egg or demon is is is a good fit I don't think that the egg or demon is 69 he's a you know big time shooter he can shot it very well yeah so I mean really who just hurts his no one's horror and bench there off and you're not making you know decisions based off that so you know I think

you know if you're the Brooklyn nets they always talk about character and intel and background

and how heavy they dig into that and clearly they liked something more about McElp Brown's profile than about Darius Acuff you know I mean Darius Acuff I mean there were a lot of questions you know about you know how much of a winning player is he the defensive intensity the body language the leadership is a very quiet guy on the court you know it's not a whole lot of leadership there you know not that McElp Brown is renowned for that but that was probably a big factor in why why Brown

ended up being the pick they're over Acuff yeah and look the kings end up getting Acuff at seven

“I had said last week when I think we were on that I didn't get the sense that the kings were”

desperate to trade up to get Acuff that they were going to sit at seven and take who they take I checked with the teams above them in the draft and they're like yeah we didn't hear from them and so I think they sat there and yeah Acuff fell to them and that's super exciting for King's fans I don't know how he's going to be in the NBA if it's clearly electric and super smooth and super skilled and it plays a lot of points I mean he's going to make a really strong push

rookie the year and plays a position update that he have a massive need for I think it's a really fun outcome for them and then so I mean again and Kingston Kingston Fleming's to the Hawks

starting point to a trade Murphy the third offer I think a lot of teams hit the pelicans yesterday

about trade Murphy the third and could they make swings for him and and they were I think a little surprise that the pelicans didn't from what I heard didn't really engage too much on trade Murphy the third talks and so the Hawks end up taking Kingston Fleming's I like getting another ball handler in the door for them obviously what is he has like a six three wing spans I don't know how that's going to translate to the NBA but this you know I do wonder if Bronson doing what he just

did sort of made all these teams a little bit more emboldened about small guards but you got to surround those small you got A the thing that Bronson did really well other than the offensive brilliance

“right A you have to be an A plus offensive player number two you have to learn to hedge and recover”

and not get in bad switches and the next were super good about that a number three you've got to surround that guy with size and defensive versatility all over the floor and the next hit that out of the park and I think the Hawks have the kind of team that they might be able to do that too I don't I don't know how ready he's going to be to step in and like you know I don't see him starting next year or whatever but we know is but what how do you see how does his game

using translate to to the league into this roster specifically I'm a fan of Kingston Flamingz I like what the Hawks did in general both with him at eight and then drafting Zubi Edge 4 at 23 these are two guys that fit the way that they want to play and they fit their you know the DNA of their team and you know they both bring big time toughness big time intangible is really unselfish

and you know if you're not going to find a star at eight you know which in this drop was always

“going to be unlikely then you you know you you go for the double and and I think that”

Kingston Flamingz is a solid double he's he's got great speed you know he can really handle the ball he's very good in transition he can get to his spots on the court he can you know make Mediterranean jumpers he shot 39% for three on on pretty low volume but 85% from the free Thor line he's a tough minded guy and so I think he's I think he's going to really fit with the LN Hawks so I like what they did here the three and again I watch like two Kingston

Flamingz games so I'm just knowledgeable enough to be dangerous and we should not be allowed in any front office to make any drafting decisions I do think by the way I had this idea this would be it would be fun I got so into watching the college stuff and thinking more about it by my standards anyway that thought it would be fun to take like a year of my career and just become a college basketball NBA scout podcast and just sort of experiment with that just watch like 20 college

games like like a day and go all in but anyway I liked his his toughness and swagger and his he's such a clever player like I was very seduced by how clever and wiery he is as a ballhandler and just a change of pace and all that stuff how big a surprise for you was Marais Johnson Jr all the way up at nine even was it surprising even with the Mavs having shocked everybody by getting dust to your May is their head coach it wasn't it wasn't that big a surprise I mean we

you know you I came on the podcast a couple of days ago we talked about risers you know and and he was

through the first name that that I brought up because you know that the NBA playoff some

“mean really helped guys like Marais Johnson I mean if you want to win at the highest level you”

need size and length and physicality and toughness and that's obviously what they want to do in Dallas now it's what they want to surround Cooper Flag with and if you look at the way that Dusty may play and Michigan he went with a really tall small follower that's Cooper Flag he had Marais Johnson at the four and then at a rip protector at the five been a dime are and that could be your you're directly lively right there and so they are already kind of putting together

the outline of how Dusty may want to play now obviously they they they you the Kyrie I mean that's you know Ellie could though they they've got more people there's a lot more work there to go but I'm sure that they spend a lot of time talking to Dusty May about not just Marais Johnson but every player that he played against for pair four you know usually you don't want to involve an NBA head coach too much in your scouting decisions because he's guys they just don't

have time to watch college basketball they don't know anything about the college game Dusty may just spent the entire season watching this entire crop he recruited a lot of them he knows him really well if you ask anybody that knows Dusty May one of the things that they said about him is his best trait is that he's in an elite town a evaluator going back to his time at Louisiana Tech as I'm assistant at University of Florida anytime at Dusty May would offer somebody on the recruiting trail

any high school kid that kid would automatically the next day get 10 offers because everybody

so when you are misogyere in my admits and you hire Dusty May obviously you're getting an incredible

ecstasy knows guy you're getting an incredible human being everybody loves him as a person but you're also getting a phenomenal town a evaluator and if he believes in Marais Johnson I'm going to buy that you know and I mean talking to Mike and Masami they liked Marais already before so it was it was the good fit you know there was a lot of talk that you know this draft I mean really kind of new what the top eight was going to look like and so you know once those eight guys went off the board there

is a kind of a wide range of players that you're choosing from and to take Marais you know at the top of his range at nine when you know probably if he doesn't go nine he goes ten he goes eleven and goes twelve so I don't really see that as a reach yeah I mean I just

Michigan must have just been a bear to play against less so I mean they won the national title but

just the physicality and size that they were throwing out there and we're going to get to their other two that's get picked right after this Johnson's switchability jumped out of out of the tape now they're there skeptics says he's pretty switchable but not like elite bands switchable fine I mean there's gradations of it obviously like a great rim runner rebounder all that stuff on offense dabble in shooting threes 12 of 35 in college and that's the like I'm just interested to see how

flag plus Johnson plus lively looks and maybe that's the premature conversation because they have a lot of veteran forwards on the team and a lot of guards they have just a lot of guys they can

“play alongside flag and a rim running center doesn't have to be those three but you know I think”

like a flag Johnson two main game is going to get switched and then it's on flag to beat those kinds of switches which he got better and better at both smaller guys and bigger guys beating them in different ways as a rookie but I think that's interesting but look again just have to trust the coach you had him for all those all those all that time in Michigan buries it 10 and aement at 13 this is obviously the start of the bucks digging out of the postionist era I heard they were

maybe the most active team on draft night calling everyone with all just just fact finding like like what they could get for some of the guys that they just picked up from Miami if they could package their picks if they could trade picks for this and that's like I think they were all over the place they don't have just keeping the picks and taking buries who I really liked on the film that I watched an a-man who I didn't watch all that enough of to have an opinion but it's

obviously like super polarizing some people really didn't like them as a prospect empty calories all this some people are enticed by the sort of size position athletic profile how do you think the

“bucks made out here I like what they did I think at you know to get Nate a-man at 13 I mean that's”

that's a great swing I mean you take at that point in the draft you take a swing on talent he's 6/11 he can handle he can pass he can shoot he can guard mode of positions he's 19 years old I mean you know he's the the development curve that he's on is very very different then you know almost anybody in this draft class I mean he was a guy that like wasn't even ranked in the top 100 you know like two two and a half years ago and then he started his descent and I don't

think that he's anywhere near what he's going to be in you know in three to five years from now I mean the body is I mean he's gained 25 pounds in the last year he's probably going to gain another 10/15 you know like in the next 12/18 months and you know just the fact that he's he's a big guardian and they're going to give him a runway here to really run with that talent and you know like they're not I mean wins the losses they're probably not going to matter as much anymore

I mean so you're going to probably start him and buries and you're going to give them you know the the opportunity that they need to make mistakes and and and and to experiment and I think that's going to be that's going to really benefit Nate and me and so I mean I'm I'm bullish on his talent I had him ranked fifth on on my board Percy so for them to get him 13th I think that's that's a great swing and so I'm I think that him and buries I it's interesting we're going to see how that plays out

“but it's a it's a very good start if you're the Milwaukee bucks and you need to hit on these two”

guys because you know you don't have a I don't think they have a pick in next year's draft and if you've got a you know some coming down the pipeline in 2031 or whatever you know and so that's I mean they they they need to show you know that they need to make something of these two picks and I think they did well with what they have

I like I like buries amen I don't know well enough but you know if you get a second pick you

you sometimes use it to take a kind of a big swing and you're saying the potential is there for a big swing Oklahoma City at 12 snags a day Mara a big center obviously um between that and Sorber they seem to be setting up some heart and shine insurance down the line if this ends up being the last year

containing with one man Yamma for the new year to medium term future it's going to have all sorts of different size elements that it's going to need to have and this is one I had heard from teams just above the thunder in the draft that they were calling trying to move up I don't know if you heard that or not but I wonder if they were trying to move up for Mara and they got their guy anyway yeah there was talk for the last few weeks that the teams you know that they were calling the teams

above them you know even going from like five through ten really and and it continued according to people I thought to like in during the draft yeah exactly I mean people some people keep asking like who are they targeting and you know there was a sense out there that it might be a dime Mara we don't know that for a fact but it makes a ton of sense to draft a seven four guy with a nine nine standing or each who you know can really protect the rim at a high level and you know

is he ready to play a big role in the NBA next year probably not but he's a guy that you throw him out there and you know three four minutes spurred so how impact again you know like in his passing ability I mean that's going to be to be interesting it's been a good wrinkle to to give them and there you know maybe the best team in the NBA developing talent and so a dime Mara is absolutely not short on talent yeah and the biggest concern about him other than you know free throw

shooting it just sort of developing physically in developing as an NBA player in terms of skill

“and reading the game was just fundamentally like how many minutes can he play and I think that's”

less of a concern for the thunder thinking two three years down the road we're facing one being a playoff series we want to throw five different looks at him during the course of the game we have Chad Holmgren who's a tent pole guy who I think is going to have to just play more five against the spurs than they dared play him in that series jailing Williams seems like a guy they a big jailing Williams Arkansas jailing Williams who will stick around the thunder for quite

some time on affordable contracts he throw him in there we'll see what happens with Sorber he just Mara at 12 you don't you don't you're not drafting to be your 35 minute game starting center such a thing barely exists anywhere in the league anyway but can I throw him in three years can he play eight two years can he play eighteen minutes against one many online a playoff series it's an interesting bet tell me about Bennett starts with a thunder

took in the Grizzlies trade down Marathon where they ended up picking up five second round picks

to move down five spots or six by five spots the pick Korean Lopez the thunder are going to have trouble rostering all these players even after trading air and wiggins by the way I didn't

“mention that earlier with Kirk great pickup for the Hawks I I think you've got a little bit”

of okay so he's shined to him and people are forgetting that he was even when they tried to play him against the spurs he was played off the court but I think he's a very good role player that the Hawks got for basically nothing great pickup by them but the thunder still have to figure out cost cutting and roster cutting but tell me about starts and what he brings to the table yeah I like starts you know almost six four you know was one of the best players in college basketball

this year really dynamic shooter who can also you know played different speeds he's got touch he's got creativity he's very good pick and role players a very good decision maker you know not a great defender it's probably the knock on him he's only a hundred eighty six pounds but you know led I won the best season they've had in 40 years I mean they made a deep NCA tournament run I mean

it's an incredible story he started at in northwest Missouri State he was a division two player

with zero division one offers and then he transferred you know he he went with Ben McCollum has had coached the Drake and then from there to Iowa so you know what arise for for Bennett starts you know like three years ago a division two player and now he's you know playing for the Oklahoma City Thunder how about that unbelievable it will see how he fits and all they just have the luxury of just bringing everyone along slowly you know Topic hopefully gets overall his health issues and

is the part of their rotation next year and they've just got a ton of guys I am super intrigued again based on my limited study just enough to be dangerous by Charlotte taking Hanna Steinbach at 14 and Christian Anderson Junior maybe the best shooter in the draft but very undersized not bear but for the MBA pretty undersized at 14 and 18 Steinbach in particular is interesting to me because

what made first of all they have the sort of power forward question going forward once Miles

Bridges deal expires whether he's back or not he can spot some minutes at center to which is a

“week position for them that I think they'll probably try to address in free agency too but he is just”

their biggest strength on offense was just the sheer sort of unpredictability of where's the ball who's moving where screening running different screening combinations all ball screening passing just

he's just kind of all over the court and makes quick decisions and can play in the middle of

“the court you can play in the corners he's an incredible offensive rebounder I feel like he fits there just”

like not random basketball but just interchangeability unpredictability quick strikeability I like that again surface level analysis I kind of like how he fits and Anderson just seems like shooting shooting shooting but tell me about Steinbach and how he fits Steinbach is a monster I mean 611 and a half and shoes 250 pounds gigantic hands 721 spin he was the best rebounder in college basketball

he's got phenomenal timing he plays super hard he's first off the ground to every loose ball

he's really really efficient I mean draws fouls he's tough he's physical you know he showed some ability to step outside and make three this year I mean he made 18-3s 35% for three he's only he's 20 years old he's gotten you know better and better like every single time I've seen him the past two or three years he was considered like a mid major guy like two years ago and then he you know you broke out at the under 18 European championship and then he he had a phenomenal

showing at the under 19 World Cup and then he had a you know a great freshman year at at Washington and and here he is now he's he's a lottery pick so I mean I you need guys like this to win and I think the best part about how to Steinbach is that he's not trying to be something that he's not he knows that he's a role player he knows that his job is to screen and role crash the glass

“ducking draw fouls set hard screens and and defend and he's happy to do that and I think that's”

that's really important to have you need guys like that and Charlotte obviously they had a really really promising season last year and and adding him and Christian Anderson you know who's going to be like a really good bench spark plug I mean you know one of the best shooters in college basketball you you know 42% for three really good pick and role player two I mean can can really pass them and made big strides in that department on the smaller side you know only around six to 180 pounds

but you know I had a great season and so you know these guys were teammates of the past few summers they know each other really well they both play for the German national team and so I mean I I like this draft for Charlotte and I love everything that Jeff Peterson and his group of don't honestly since they've come into to Charlotte I was going to say the next step is the hardest right the next step is just continuing to build up and to make sure this is like the development

continues and it's not one of these you know it's not always linear you don't always rise from like

40 wins to 45 to 50 but they're a good team and the steps from good to great it's not a one-year process but it that's the hardest part but I love everything let's say a quick break and then we'll finish up with some draft stuff all right today's NBA draft reactions is presented by state farm whether it's heading into the draft fall or life nothing beats a great game plan so like a world class coach throwing up an inbound place state farm is there to drop the right plan for you

and help you get the personalized coverage for whatever comes your way but more in that later for now I'm here to assist you with the NBA draft and Jonathan Gopony is here to continue assisting me with the NBA draft at 11 the warriors had no shortage of trade options from what I've heard I'm not exactly sure obviously all of what they were but they end up taking yaxle land to board who just as soon as that pic came across my phone I was like seems like a great warrior just

classic Steve Kerr warrior cut off the ball defense toughness versatility there were a lot of like there were rumblings I heard during the day I don't know if you heard this that other teams told me hey we're hearing land aburts falling a little bit I don't know why if it's the maturity issues and all that he ends up not really falling at all the warriors snap him up despite having some of what I heard interesting trade options I seem like good fit to me he's a veteran he's

taught that these veteran by draft standards almost 24 the wing position with kominga gone and moody injured and butler injured is sort of sitting there for him to be a big bouncy wing

“for them I think he's going to I liked what I saw of him on film for sure yeah I like this”

fix for the warriors he's going to fit the way that they want to play and he's obviously at you

know turning 24 he's ready to play right away I mean he was a second best player in college

basketball this year after cam booser he's six foot 10 240 pounds seven three wingspan he's a grown man and he's the versatility is really what stands out he can handle he can pass he can shoot he was Michigan starting small forward this year but at UAB he really played center and so he can play you can play him all over the floor you know the shooting really improved this year quite a bit you know 37% for three on high ball you 82% from the line so yeah I mean I mean I

and the interviews weren't great I mean he's he's a little bit of a silly guy I would say

you know like I've been spent you know talk to him on the phone a little bit and I mean I think he's a great guy at teammates love him they all vouch for him they say he's you know they would go to war with him and so I think that the warriors I'm gonna like this pick um what did you think about the whole you know lake up done leavey stuff you know the the hot camera I saw I saw that just before we sat down I was like it was like oh lake up and done leavey

appear to be disagreeing on what to do though I don't know I haven't asked around I haven't had I literally just saw before we went on I don't really even get how that became publicized but I will say I those things are often blowing up into being more than they are sometimes

are not like when KD and Kyrie were seeing chummen around at the all star game then 2018 or 2019 yeah

turned out they were maybe talking about teaming up I saw I just done leavey said I saw I just

“remember that saw he said that lake up was asking why don't you just make the pick right away why are”

we gonna milk every second of the clock and don't leavey said like let's the ticker time we have five minutes it takes five minutes and he was like let's just we want you to just take the axle you know don't wait oh then who cares that's what that's another thing burger to me look as a consumer of the draft sometimes I'm like really we need we need five minutes for cambooser Memphis like we just as you can just call that one in right off the bat like well but I guess you

do like it's your job to if someone calls you and is like we'll give you 17 first round picks in this player you got you know you got to be ready for it so I don't make make make much of that

let's talk about some big men there's always players that you see when you're what when you're

trying to watch other players and that was the case for Chris Senak for me from Houston I kind of like him and I like Boston taking a center and then you had the spurs taking two big men which had

“people raising their eyebrows a little bit what did you make of those picks yeah I mean with”

Quentin it's all about the future I mean there was a lot of concern and the lead up to the draft about his knee you know tutorials ACL at Arizona State and then he only play four games this year and then he shut it down and you know if there was some stuff that come up in the medical with a cartilage floating around in his knee and and you know it's pretty clear that he's gonna probably need to have another procedure now is it a procedure that knocks him out

three months or is it a procedure that knocks him out the entire season will see him in NBA teams often air on the side of caution especially when it comes to guys who are 18 years old and so it would not surprise me it's you know Jay and Quentin since the guy that they're betting on long term and Tara 3 who they also drafted is a guy who's ready to play right now I mean he's he's turning 23 years old he's one of the most productive big minute college basketball and they you know we saw

“him to play off that you know you need to figure out a way to to rest Victor Wimbaniama a little bit more”

I mean he was pretty gas at times and you know is this rookie you know it's dropping the 20s is that gonna be the guy that does that I'm not sure but finding a way to get Victor like you know the ability to catch his breath especially in the in the regular season I think is important and just should because I mean it's such a long season that they just went through and so it makes sense I think to draft two bigs and you know if one of them turn out I think you did well especially with

picks in the 20s. All right today's NBA draft reactions was presented by State Farm State Farm is here with agents and easy-to-use digital tools like the State Farm App to help set you up with personalized coverage to fit your life and budget like a good neighbor State Farm is there coverage option that are selected by the customer and price and eligibility vary by state okay wrapping up draft stuff I kind of chuckled at LeBaron Fylon Jr. to the sixers not chuckled because

I don't think he's good I I kind of liked what I saw from him he felt a little bit further than maybe I expected actually based on based on some stuff I don't know we can talk about that if you want I just chuckled only because it's like the new front officer you're like hey sorry we traded Jared McCain here's another guard here's another fun combo guard for us to put with Maxie and Edgecom sorry about that yeah I mean I wasn't I wasn't shocked by by by LeBaron Fylon going

22nd I actually I see I had him on my board 23rd so he went right around where I thought he would go you know the smaller guards 176 pounds the defensive side there's some question marks there you know there was some stuff that came up in the intel also that people you know had some questions about and I mean but it's it's an interesting spot for him because you know they're going to need somebody to to soak up minutes and they're in the regular season and he's he's a bucket

I mean he's a guy that you can bring off the bench and he's going to he's going to be able to score for

another gear defensively but I mean there's some real talent there for LeBaron Fylon he made you know

he made a big jump from last year to this and so I think you know you can never have too many

guards as Mike Gansy said before let's you go any other winners losers perplexers anything after that first round as we went for the second round now that you want to get off your chest yeah I mean to be honest you this was the first time that I've been that I watched the draft from home since I moved to New York in 2008 I've been to the draft every single year since and I I was honestly got a little bit underwhelmed I'm not enough it was just because it was so

chalky or because you know there wasn't really a single trade of like an actual NBA player which you don't normally see I think they're in the draft and all kinds of boring trades like the nicks the leakers trading $3 million in the nicks you know to move up one spot you know it's

“like really the nicks you need $3 million you know like that's what we're doing here and so”

I just felt like the I was a little bit bored to be honest with you and I don't know what exactly I would expect him but like being there at the draft like it feels like such a big event and it feels like the stakes are so high and I just watching from home it I didn't get that impression at all I was watching at first with my kids and they were just like this is really boring I were going to bed and so you know that was that was one thing that stood out you know other than that I mean

I thought you know the leakers the leakers moving up you know like that was interesting I

thought I mean they obviously really liked camp car enough for their owner to say here's $3 million

go move up one spot you know when it was pretty obvious at the nicks we're not even going to take camp car and maybe they were concerned that you know somebody else is going to train that spot and so they really wanted camp car I mean he's still a little bit I mean he was in the green room

“and ended up I think at 25 so that's that's a good little swing for the for the leakers I think”

um I was a little bit disappointed for some of these guys that you know we're underclassmen that had the opportunity to go back to school that had you know gigantic NIO offers on the table you know for four or five million dollars talking about guys like co-opete like Malik Thomas like Henry Vaesar as it Evans you know these guys took like three to four plus million dollar haircuts last night and you know that you know in this era like you know I wonder like okay

these guys shouldn't they have the ability to go back to school now some of them especially the guys that didn't go in the first one co-opete was the last pick of the first round you got drafted by his hometown team the phoenix signs that's awesome for him his family gets to be at

every game all that you know I'm sure like my people you know Arizona had four and a million

dollars in the table for him I mean like I wonder if there's any regret there but um I would love to see in the future that these guys these Malik Thomas is who you know the sky was a freshman decide to stay in the draft could have gone back to Arkansas Henry Vaesar would have been one of the faces of college basketball had he gone back to North Carolina Isaiah Evans was that Duke you know two more years of old you go to I kind of wish for them that they

would have the ability to go back to school now and they you know pull their name out of the draft but I say noon or something like that but you know what we know we got some work to do in that regard yeah co-opete was we talked about it a couple of weeks ago is the most obvious father like the reworked jumper really freaked people out and he ends up in 30 and we'll see how that goes my fair part of watching the draft everyone focuses on the fashion fashion school like the fashion

go crazy go big go bold go gritty dick all the all of it I like the agent bro hugs after the guys are drafted from the green room because I now know all the agents and so and the agents are often much shorter than the player so it's like it's a dicey like how do you go in there and some of them they try and look cool and casual and they'll go for the high five bro hugs some of them keep it super casual just to handshake some of them and mode more than others and get a little

more genuinely emotional and let their let their emotions be on their sleeves for the world to see I like the bro hug like what's your style of bro hug how much control do you do you take

“if you're emotions that's why that's my fair part now the draft I just love watching them”

see them fidget you know these are like these guys are like all millionaires are so powerful they're they they control the NBA and then this one moment we're like all the lies come to roots like you know the hands of these workouts they don't you know they're trying to control the draft in this way or another and then some of them end up falling and then you see them kind of it's such an awkward moment for them to see the agent sitting there with the parents and it's like

all these false promises that they made you're going to be drafted here you're going to be drafted there and you know why have so much power I have so much control I can get this team to do this and that and there's not and they're sitting there powerless and like that's the part I don't know why but I just enjoy that so much I enjoy when whether it's an agent or somebody at the table

awake if the young agent in particular they've been waiting for this like televised green room

“moment their guy gets drafted it's like maybe it's their first like big guy they're up there”

they're smiling they got the hand up and the player goes like mom dad brother sister coach up to the up to the podium and like the agents like yep great great just recovers and turns the

“height the left hanging high five and do a clap all right Jonathan Gopony draft express Twitter”

uh what else what else we hope what else you want to say we gotta go do the second round now

yeah come to my tiktok come to tiktok I don't know what's going on on tiktok but apparently

“Gopony's there thanks but I'll see you in person soon thanks doc all right that's it for today”

barring some news will be back next week as usual thank you to Jonathan Gopony and Kurt Goldsbury

thanks as always to Mike Billy and Jonathan on production thanks you all for listening to

and or watching the Zach low show we'll see you next week 21 over in president select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas star casino or 18 and over in president and DC you can tuck your Wyoming gambling problem call 1 800 gambler or 1 800 my reset call 1 888 789 777 777 or visit ccpg.org/chat and Connecticut or is it md gamblinghelped.org and Maryland hope is here visit gamblinghelped.mea.org or call 800 327 50 50 for 24 7 support and Massachusetts

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