How Many Stage Wins Can Pogačar Get? | TdF 2026 Stage 14 | THEMOVE+

the development of the stage is going to be. That's what put that chart and you, you are doing

“Everybody welcome back to the move plus some Spencer Martin. I'm here with you on Vernillo,”

we're breaking down stage 14 of the Tour de France and previewing tomorrow stage 15 as well as answering a few listener questions. You know, on today's stage was won by Taday Pagachar with Isaac Delta's

prize second. Yeah, shocking. We were right with our pick. I was getting a little nervous halfway

through, but you a had an under-controlled Deltaora with second 30 seconds back, Paul success. Third on the same time, they both get time bonuses though and Jonas Findergard falling away again at the end of a little punchy finish after a climb, 44 seconds back, loses 10 seconds to six hours. 12 seconds and like in real time adding the time bonuses to Deltaora looks like we might have a battle for not only the podium, but for second place and then have a thrilling battle

for the white jersey with Paul success taking it from one of you. So, and Deltaora will just 30 one seconds back. The ice is also only three seconds back. It was a mountain stage through the Vosemountains and the Alsace region finishing at the same ski resort where Pagachar won a few years ago, but as you pointed out, different climb, almost a bike path, type climb. It was,

I thought a pretty incredible stage. We saw UA control again, but it was a, they barely caught

Richard Carapaz and to Pagachar's holding your hands in at the top of the final climb. The calf one was actually the one pulling. Rimco has dropped. Rimco was back. A lot going on, but Johan, what did you think about this stage and what's your big takeaway? Yeah, I mean, no surprises. And so before we talk about the stage, I actually want to take the advantage of congratulating Belgian Lusia vanemper, who was, it's today the 58th anniversary of the last

Belgian victory in Tour de France, 1976 is the last time, you know, the French, the French are complaining that it'd be not Bernard Hinole, who won the last time in 1985. The Belgians, since 1976, we have not won the Tour de France and we are a cycling nation. So, you know, that is really weird. Yeah, so Lusia vanemper won in 1976, after having won already six times the King of the mountains. So he's six times spoken about jersey, but today there was a party in Belgium to honor

his victory 50 years ago. So congratulations, Lusia vanemper. You got to get a Belgian tour winner. Also, almost five years since an American 101 stages, since an American is one of two different states that coos into his hometown of Andorra being the last time. It happened, but that shocked me. That's a long time ago. This isn't seem like that long ago, but almost five years, we got to get an American win here, what are we doing? But Johan, what did you think of

Bagauchas win and then the scramble bind for the party? You know, first of all, you know, before we

“talk about Pagauchas win, Spencer, I think, you know, if we look at the day stage, it was a as predicted.”

You know, initially, the sort of the bonus sprint came really early. You know, we had immediate sprint really at the beginning of the stage. After they had to go through some really bad weather, by the way, at the start, really pouring rain, dangerous, luckily that cleared up, because that region, and when it rains, it can be really slippery there. It does rain a lot, so to a really green part of France, but the roads are tricky. The sprint, I think was the first

event of the day, right? Jasper Phillips and one that sprint, Patterson, not second, get my third, the usual suspects. So, you know, okay for Patterson, you know, he loses another five points. So, I think what was Phillips did is not like 36 points behind? 36 points. So, if this happens every stage for the rest of the tour, Patterson wins by one point, because it was a 37. So, yeah, I think I guess all he has to do is just get second and every intermediate sprint and he's

good to go. Yeah, yeah. Well, I think I think he'll need some points in another stage. Also, it's a remarkable actually that, you know, Phillips and Gidemi keep, I mean, of course, it's also the only thing that's left to do for them, right? Yeah, but, but still, I mean, I'm but, I mean, it's going to be very difficult. There's another pure bunch sprint. So, if I would look ahead at those stages and I'm Peterson and Gidemi, I'd say, you know,

“it's going to be extremely difficult, but, you know, they're not the other hand. That's what left”

for them. You know, it's interesting at the beginning of the stages to see those prints, because that's basically for all percent and for NSN, for example, that's their race.

So, they have other objectives, but, yeah, Phillips and, yeah, good for him.

And the break doesn't even try to go. They just wait until after the interviews, because they know that they can't get away. Yeah. And then, I was expected, you know, a group went a big group initially with surprisingly also again, Tom Pitcock in that group. Yeah, three Visma riders in that group.

“You know, I think there was Armirao and Jurgenson and Victor Componarz. And then, you know,”

there was Karapas and the Johannes and Twins, Parapantra and Rubio, strong, strong riders in that break. And we could see straight away, okay, you were setting the pace. The moment we saw that they kept it around two, two and a half minutes, there was clear what the intention was going

to be. And actually, we should have listened to some interviews from before the start, because

there were some, for example, did you see Johannes' interview after the finish? Yeah, he said he talked to Plata Day and that Poachar had, you know, he had asked, you know, he told him he wanted to go in the break and Poachar had said, ah, you know, maybe not a great day for the break. Anyway, how unbelievable is that? You know, like, you're the strongest rider, you know, you have the strongest team, and you kind of can dictate what the development of the

“stage is going to be. That's what Poachar and you are doing. Yeah, it's incredible. And yeah,”

did we say, Tom Pickock was in there, which did force, I mean, I don't think UAE is seriously worried about Pickock, but it did put a guy that is fourth in the GC in the break, which essentially kills the break, because you're not going to get a big enough gap. Yeah, the GC guy up there. Yeah, and also the three Visma riders, I don't know what you think, why were they in there? I mean, it's at me. It's like when I look at the strategies and then, of course, you know,

I mean, you have to applaud for these teams to send guys in there. But, you know, with the guys that were there, they were not going to win the stage, because they were stronger climbers in there. But yet, they did a lot of work. And then what's really remarkable to me is that like UAE are absolutely not concerned about whatever tactical move Visma is doing. They could not care less. They're just, you know, like, Visma spends three riders. Okay, so what, great guys, see you later.

On the climb. I know, it's like flies like buzzing around a T-rex. It is like don't care. They don't even register it. And think how far we are from 2020, you know, think 2022. We're Visma. Oh, wow, they're pulling, they're pulling these tricks. UAE doesn't know what to do. Like we are a long way from that. It was jarring watching that today. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, they know that man for man, they're stronger. And then also, if you see,

okay, Jerkinson, maybe maybe a little bit better than, you know, his sick or bin sick, he has crashed. Victor, poor Victor is trying for dear life, but you can see he's on the limit. And then I'll mean, I was, you know, also coming back from a crash. So, that's not really anything that they should be worried about. So, what, what do you, why do you think that there was three Visma riders in the break away? I guess number one, Georgia brought it up on the show, stage win, trying to get a stage win.

Well, I mean, they were not going to win the these guys. It should be set to cook or pick on the order you was in the break, doing the stage like today. I mean, that's also jarring that we're talking about material jarring and can't win a mountain stage, but that's where we are. I mean, no, I mean, in this, in this, this Mateo Jorgensen right now, unfortunately, he's, you know, not at the level that he is, we are expecting him to be for whatever reason it may be, but Mateo Jorgensen is not

going to win a mountain stage from a breakaway like this. And then the other option would be, they know exactly what you just said. They know those guys aren't good enough climbers right now to make

it over the climbs. So, maybe get over the first three climbs and try to help. There was a bit of a

“low between the third and the fourth categorized climb on the day. That's the only thing I can”

think of. Yeah, but what's that? Yeah, I mean, they can, okay, yeah, they can probably, you know, they can stack up on bottles and then when the pellets, when the group of favorites catches them, they can, you know, pour water over your glasses head and give them a bottle. For example, yeah, is that really the purpose of that kind of tactical move, you know, because all the teams and especially this month, one of the teams, they have a tremendous amount of

where he was short on drinks or cooling. I don't think so. No, I mean, I don't know. Do you have it there? Why would? I don't really get why they would do it. Other than to look active and keep them around up. Yeah, I mean, maybe maybe, maybe hoping that the break is going to get a lot bigger gap and then they're going to make it over the climbs and then hopefully Jonas could, I mean, it would be, it would be far fetched to think that they would think that they can get actually

over that last climb and then be off any service in those last six kilometers to the finish. That makes no sense to me. That was not going to happen. Well, this is going to sound a little harsh, but does it remind you a little bit of like, you know, you cut a chickens head off and then the body won't run around sometimes? Well, it's kind of like, is this reflexes of a former Visma that we're seeing? Like, this is something they would have done in the past and maybe they're

just like going back to the reflexes that they used to do, but they just don't have the manpower anymore. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I really don't know. But anyways, from the moment we saw

basically Neil Spollett basically on his own controlling that group, Neil Spollett did an amazing job

today. He was he pulled that whole first climb. He's probably one of the heaviest guys in the race. No, he's probably not, he doesn't have the weight of Ghana and Weren's go, but he probably is the third heaviest guy. He's probably up there, you know? Yeah. So yeah, that was an amazing job and then nah, I mean, for me, a guy who really left a big impression on me today in terms of his personal performance was fairly close partner. That guy did an amazing job today by himself,

bringing that gap down to basically, I mean, at the bottom of the last climb that the remainder of the

“break, which were four riders, then I think was caught up off. And Johannason, but a pantera and Rubio,”

they were down to a minute. And that's just the job of one rider. Yeah, and those are strong

guys. I think Caripass is a strong rider. And I have on my notes that he got dropped off basically

28 K to go. They're like, all right, Felix, you're on the front. And then he's got a pullback, strong guys, strong motivated guys and get the gap down to a minute by the base of the final climb. What did you think of the calfline coming to the front on the final climb? Yeah, I mean, that was interesting. Spencer, I mean, it's like, you know, of course, you were, they had a plan. The plan was that we gotcha with a tack on the last climb and take time and with the stage.

But then, you know, you still have to see how teammates respond, right? We had,

“we had Grocerner than I think after Grocerner, it was supposed to be random and naughty.”

We did a little bit of pacing, but then the platform came to the front. They eliminated Grocerner, and he ate, and he ate, couldn't even come to the front. Yeah. So, listen, it was still great for, it's great for Pugachar. And then, and then,

Cepcus started the pace. First, I think, because first, I think, who was, was it lipovids

and sexists who went a little bit ahead and then Cusier and Cusier really went deep to pull them back in. Yeah. I did a great job, did a great job, and then you're not surprisingly takes over and starts to ride really fast. And that was a surprise for me to see. You know, I mean, if you're in second position and you want to try to challenge the leader,

“you're not going to pace for him. No, I think so. So, it's going to start dumping a bottle over,”

Pugachar, giving some food. It looks like he used his teammate. It was really strange. You know, I mean, the only explanation I can find Spencer is for Bo, Visma, and you own us, and even Deckat long. You know, obviously, we see, listen, hats off for Vingigar. He took responsibility. Should he have done it in my opinion, no, you know, but to me, it's a sign. Is it a sign that he's trying to eliminate potential rivals for the podium? It's kind of what I thought at the time.

Probably, you know, that's not, that's not definitely not a move with the intention to win the Tour de France under these circumstances. You know, I think what's happening, Spencer is very simple. You know, what we see on the screen is that, you know, nobody can touch Pugachar. We see that. Now, these riders, they see it, and they feel it, and they know it.

and including Jonas Vingigar. They will say otherwise, but whatever they say, the riders know

“very good what the difference is in strength. And so, you know, Jonas is, in my opinion, racing for”

second, you know, he's today, for example, he knows that he's probably the strongest climber of the

rest of the riders. I think he showed that today, also, he set the pace, and then after setting the pace for quite a long time, including on that little, like, easier part in the middle of the climb, which is huge, this advantage for the guy who's pulling, and great advantage for the guy who's in the wheel, then we get to the steepest climb, pull out charatax, I think with one and a half K to go, and who's the second guy on his own is still Jonas Vingigar. So, to me, that show that he is

the strongest rider of all the other riders, after what he has done today, maybe in the end, he's only fought in the stage. But I just think it's trying to make sure that you're going to be

“second. It's the only thing I can think of. It makes, otherwise, it makes no sense, it makes no”

sense unless you also want to say, okay, I don't like these accelerations, I'm just going to pace,

and that's my fastest way to get to the front. Pogacha couldn't care less, first of all, he was

3 and a half minutes ahead already, and whatever, he didn't need to take time. And on top of that, Pogacha, if it slows down a bit, he has that acceleration that Jonas, for the moment, doesn't seem to have, you know, it seems to me like he and his team probably has figured out that the best way for Jonas to get as fast as possible to the top is to ride his own pace. Yeah, well, so, but okay, let's say he wants to get second, he actually went the wrong direction, because now he's last time,

on guys that could get second. Yeah, so, yeah, okay. He didn't have to do anything. He lost, well, 12 seconds to Del Toro. That's not, that's true. I don't think he sees Del Toro as a rival for second place. Are you sure to see Paul success as a rival, and he lost in sex, and it's like

“unnecessarily, unnecessarily lost the time. That's what drives him nuts. It's like, I don't understand”

why he didn't do that. Yeah, not me neither. I mean, I was, I was really surprised to see him, you know, go to the front, and then start to set a pace, and actually it must have been a heart pace, because guys like Remco, and even Del Toro was struggling in the back, and now you saw was struggling, you know, and all the other guys like, you know, scale Moses got dropped, then he Martinez got dropped. I mean, those are good climbers. They got dropped when Jonas was

spacing, and so must have been really hard, but then if you look at, I mean, it was funny. I saw, I was listening to Eurosport, and one of the commentators, you know, got switched languages, depending on who's talking, but one of the commentators on Eurosport had this marvelous vision all of a sudden. He had seen a grimace on Thursday, Pogachar's face. Yeah, yeah, we all have end to do it. I mean, come on, don't you see his demeanor, the guys just freaking,

like, you know, he was on the radio, you know, he was rubbing his nose, like sheaning his hands on a shoulder, digging a bottle. No, he was not on the lift. Yeah, and at this point, even if he wasn't a limit, the limit would be not losing time. Like that's, but that chart, not in not in great shape, because he's so much better than those guys. Yeah, I also was surprised to hear some comments of commentators who said, yeah, you know, Pogachar was not dominant today. You know,

he didn't take as much time as we thought, you know, we didn't see a, we think we saw a good Kogachar, not a great Pogachar. I said, which race haven't been watching? The guy attacked with one and a half K from the top, and he takes almost a minute on his closest rival. It's like, at the finish, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay, took time. And that, the, the, the that gain was 50, 54 seconds, no? Yes. And he pulled out. So time, the entire flat run, while they were rotating through

behind. So if that's not dominant, I don't, I don't know what is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I hear a lot of that to you on is silliness. I don't know what people are talking about. Well, you know, he got us,

he got us some, I mean, he got us used to some really incredible rates, where he takes off and

just destroys everybody and everybody. But, you know, today was a relatively short effort, but was it seven and a half kilometers in total? It's effort. Yeah. And one of those been in the climb, you know, yeah, one of the half kilometer uphill and then then six K to the finish. It was

wasn't out there throwing caution to the wind, which is smart. You know, what's also remarkable

“Spencer, after it's now the third time I'm seeing this with today is like he goes and it's like he”

has everything completely figured out on how fast he's going to go on that last section. And he takes 10 seconds and then on the shortest, I mean, in half of the effort, the last half of the effort, he just takes another, takes the same time as he took with his attack. Yeah. It's not like he stays there. Initially, initially, you say, okay, you know, you know, you're not just a 10 seconds same thing happened on the tourmalet. You know, he just stays there 10 seconds, 15 seconds and then

all of a sudden it's like he sees the top and he just goes in another gear. He was obviously going full gas. I mean, there he was grimacing. You know, I mean, I've seen somewhere that his his attack was four minutes 37 seconds and apparently doing those four and a half minutes he did eight, eight minutes, eight watts point, eight point four watts per kilo during that attack. You know, after two weeks of racing, that's pretty, pretty impressive. Let's like 550 watts

for the last five minutes of the climb, basically. Yeah. No, but, you know, he attacks and he does not

stagnate. You know, he has this ability to still those last 500 meters today of that climb were unbelievable. He went faster than during his attack. Yep. Yeah. He like sits down and settles in, but the settles in is a faster pace than the attack. And he just, yeah, tortures everybody. It's super impressive. But Johan, it was, I thought it was a cerebral performance. He didn't waste any energy, waited to the last moment. Also a great physical performance. Is there anything he could have

done to help himself even more physically in this performance? Well, I mean, I know, I know he's taking key tones, but not maybe not these, I don't know which ones. Yeah, we don't know. We can't, we can't we don't know which types. Yeah. The whole panel tone is using key tones. It's, you know, the new fuel source since a couple of years ago. Yeah, the key tone eight is our sponsor. Since

“the middle of the tour, I think, key tone eight is actually the one of the first companies”

that brought a real key tone ester to the market. It's not so well known to consumers. There's other brands out there that maybe have a better marketing strategy or invest more in marketing, but it's known by the pros. You know, personally, I still have a lot of connections in the Peloton and when people ask me about key tones, this is, this is what I recommend. It's great

to having them finally on the podcast as a sponsor. But this is the real deal. You know, I, I know

they're paying sponsor now, but you know, over the last six, seven years, I have spoken to writers and to teams and I've actually recommended the teams. They're the official sponsor, for example, of two dot quick step in this tour of France and XDS Astana. That's an official partnership they have, but I do know that there are also several other teams and even individual writers who purchase personally, key tone eight, because they prefer this product compared to other

some maybe more diluted versions that are out there. It's very sensitive. This is a little bottle. There's 25 grams of key tone pure key tone ester in here. You can just, this has 10 servings, by the way. So you can do quite a bit, so you just take a little sip. Most of the writers

“use it straight after the finish of that. I think we've all seen writer straight away after the”

finish. They just check down a bottle of key tones, cause it enhances and helps with their recovery. As I said, it's a real key tone ester. The other stuff, there's dials, there's key tone salts. They don't work as well. For our remove listeners, during this podcast, there's a special action during the tour of France. Go to ketone8.com and use the code de move, a checkout for 15% off.

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Yeah, how do you know you have the right stuff? It tastes like absolute crap. That's how you know it's working.

“But so the win gives Pagachar. The win that I think we both agree is pretty impressive. We loved it.”

His fourth win of this tour at 25th win ever. So as we said in our event, I'm trivia the other day. He's now 10 away from the record. How many wins do you think Tede Pagachar is going to get at this tour of France? He is full fight. I know a few days ago I sent five. So I'm going to have to change that. I think it's going to be five. Yeah. Yeah. It's also, so this is actually I have a little stat here also, which I saw. I think on Vela. So it's today. It's his 120 fifth victory as a professional

rider. It seems like yesterday that we were celebrating his 100 victory in the tour of France. It might have been a couple of months ago. I think it was last year. I was last year in the tour. I think last year in the tour, I think he won his 100 victory. I don't know if it was in the

“yellow jersey or in the rainbows. I don't remember that. But I lost year was his 100 victory.”

And he's not shocking about that. 125. Since since the moment you're describing, he's probably raised 40 days. So he's wrecked up. He's 125. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he has done sponsored. So he has 125 victories as a pro. And his total race days as a pro is 406. Oh my god. And so that is that's ridiculous. That's great. That winning rate is crazy. I mean knowing how many times, how easy it is in cycling to not win. Mostly, most of the time you don't win.

In a lot of the times, you're not even trying to win. You know, there's multiple stages of this race where he's just trying to get through without crashing. Yeah. Yeah. And that's 31% win right by the way.

I've never seen anything like that. That's crazy. Yeah. That's unbelievable. Yeah. It is unbelievable.

“I think there's 170 people in every stage at least. You know, I think that's how many people are left.”

And so what are your odds of winning a stage? Not great. It's very hard to say. So do you know, yesterday, Marshmidd, great writer. We love Marshmidd. We're at Marshmidd positive podcast. He is the worst ranked writer in the UCI writer rankings to win a stage of this tour to France. And he is a very good writer. And he makes a lot of money. You know? Yeah. And you have to be very good to win stages. Yeah. Now to win stages of tour, you need to be really, really good. I mean,

look at these speeds also. You know, you're going back to yesterday, like a a half mountain stage 2,400 meters of elevation 50k an hour. I mean, what the hell? What will they last? Like before today, the last three stages were each in the top 10 fastest stages of all time in tour. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They still have also found a stat today that they are only half done with the climbing at the Tour de France despite I have heard that. Yeah. That's crazy. So one week left. So

there's seven stages left. And they still have half of the vertical meters to do. Wow. That's crazy.

I think it's the hardest third week I've ever seen. It's unbelievable. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's

I wonder if it's a good thing. You know, it's I think this tour has been designed with a purpose. Obviously, to avoid the World Cup football, which you know finishes tomorrow. And then have these spectacular stages at the end. But you know, what are we going to see in these really hard stages because I might get that big great. Yeah. Having mind that after week two, there are 20 riders in the Peloton who could still race for the victory. And you have 160 riders, what that, that they're

just dragging themselves to Paris. That's the goal. So what, how much spectacle are we going to see if these stages are so hard? That's a bit my concern. Yep. I agree. I have the same concern. Wait, did you answer the question? So he's going to, let's say he has five at the end of two, five going into the second rest day. Wow. How many did he just go into tomorrow, right? But I suspect he's going to win. So it's going to be seven, seven stages. Seven, one shy of the record.

Yeah. Crazy. Crazy. So it's, it's Eddie Merck's and Freddie Mark. There's no who have the the

most wins, but with eight. Yeah. Merck's to twice. And did he, did he know never win eight stages?

Well, oh, no second. Could be good. He might have won eight. I mean, there was a, I think he did win eight stages. So I mean, he just died three times. I don't know how many

days, there's guys who won more stages because probably what was the same guy who won the hardest stages. Yeah. True. Yeah. Like those are all to be like, oh, there was 18 stages and one guy won 17.

Well, I mean, Spencer, you know that the first, the first two of the France ever,

you could, it was impossible to win eight stages because that we're only five stages. They were probably all 1,000 kilometers long ago. Yeah, like five, 600 kilo hours per stage. Oh, my God. See this. It was really, it was a break. If you look at the map of the first two of the France, it was the tour the France. So basically, they started and they did the tour of France, like just on the border. They just went around the border.

That is wild. Well, yeah, let's see the quick ad break. And then I have a question for you. I have two questions for you. And then we have a listener question and then we'll do the preview for tomorrow's stage. We'll be right back, though. Everybody this episode is brought to by Lagoon sleep. Everyone is obsessed with buying speed, expensive wheel sets, ultra arrow bikes, tests and a wind tunnels. And then they sleep on a pillow. They've had since college. Come on.

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“on. So you'll have my first question for you is should Tom Pickock have gotten in the break today?”

Is that a good idea? I mean, I don't think it made a lot of difference. Maybe he spent a little bit of energy to get in the break. But once he was in the break, he did not do anything. He had teammates there and then he had Visma. So he's not gone any harder than I mean, I think it was actually easier because it didn't have to fight for position in that. So he finishes three and a half minutes down. Yeah, I think it's been a bit got paid for his effort. So yesterday, he spent a lot yesterday.

He paid for it today. Yeah. Yeah. He's still in the dock then. So but he's back to where he was. He was he was intense. I was the intent or eleventh before he was yesterday. Ten, I think. And now isn't now. Okay. So now he's in nine. So yeah. I'll tell you what though. That's it's a competitive top 10. The last after the top 10 is flooring lip wits. Isaac Del Toro, Mateo Scalmo's a Tom Pickack, Lenny Martinez, Egor Bernardes 11th,

Jordan J. God's 12th. That's that's a that's really tough. That's crazy. Oh, listen, I mean,

“if you want to be in the top 10 in the duet of France, you have to be a damn quick bike rider.”

Damned. Yes. So my next question. No, no, no, no. Question for you. Question for you, Spencer. What was my best placing in the two de France? I think, oh my god, this is tough. Well, you were podium at the top. Don't look at the podium at the vault. So let's run a little discount here. So let's say what's a podium at the vaults equivalent to? Were you seven at the two of the fronts? I was seven. Yeah. Seven. Oh, yeah, came in. Almost got stumped there. Well,

knowing what we know now, who's going to be on the podium at this race overall at the end. You know, I mean, that's another thing I want to talk about, as Bullsex, I think we should spend some time on him. I think it's going to be Bullachar and Jonas being a guard and Bullsex, I think that's the podium. And so right now, it's just, it's per gacha Jonas Remco, six us, so then you think Remco. Yeah. Well, follow six us will come up.

Well, six us is really, it's incredible. I was skeptical.

days, like all of a sudden, you know, the race catches up with you. And you're, this guy is a suspect, this is a special guy. So I'm going, I'm taking back what the criticism and the skepticism and the doubts I had before the tour. If you're at this level, he showed today after 14 stages, you're not breaking down. You're staying there. No, he almost looks like he's getting stronger. And he looks fresh and happy and, you know, like upbeat after the stage is now in the

wad jersey, by the way, only by three seconds, but, you know, he's the younger strider in the race. And has the wad jersey. And today, you know, when it's really matter, you had Bullachar from

London, you had Jonas, and then he was the guy who dropped all these other guys and called up first

to Jonas Vingigar on that climb. And then later, just a little bit after the down hit, I mean,

“after the top of the time, the total came back. But yeah, I think I think six hours is definitely,”

it's got two younger than the next Jonas rider, the race. Who's the next one? Actually, I don't know off the top of my head. I mean, there'd be 21. Is it going to be the guy who got really bad Belgian guy, he's younger rider. From Louven, that guy, let's say, wait, start list, hold on. We're going to figure this out. So, wait, youngest, oldest, please. Okay, nope, Robbie, it's another Belgian.

Robbie, don't, Robert don't, yeah, on the picnic post in L. But is he still in the race? He finished today. Okay, okay, and he's like 20 days older than Rob, Robbie. Okay, so he's still 21. Yeah, okay. Okay. Okay. And well, Paul, six hours is an old 19. If we're ever splitting hairs here, he's, he's coming up on that to soon. Yeah, like in a moment. He's getting old. Is he washed up? It's the question I was gonna ask him. I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm really impressed

“with the way he's handling everything, you know, it's, and I think, I think they got long,”

they're actually doing a pretty good job by protecting him. You know, he's not, he's not much in the media, not like nothing to compare to what I expect. Kind of forget his here at times. Yeah, you know, he's been racing very smart, you know, I haven't, he hasn't done one thing wrong

for the moment, which is, it's, it's incredible. I mean, obviously now, you know, he's, he's, he's

getting, I mean, the people of the French are going to go crazy, but it seems to me like he is being, dealing with it really, really in a very mature way, you know, yeah. Yeah, and there's this kind of hate going on, that this is the bait going on Spencer. Well, I wouldn't know your opinion. So, this is the bait going on about Paul's success and his future, you know, he has a contract with Dick Atlom through 2027, then his agent has been on the record. There's a lot of interest

and offers, and, you know, there's been rumors that UAE would be interested. Then there's,

this reported offer of 13 million euros of Penarello, due to the 6.5, I don't think that's true.

“I think that's, uh, I'm going to do my little Trump, my daily Trump like fake news fake news.”

I think that's fake news. But, you know, what do you think he should do? Should he go to another team? Should he stay at Nick Atlom? What do you think he should do? No, I'm kind of biased here, but on that 13 million figure, you know what's going on here, and I've poked around about this, agents will just leak that. Yeah. So, then it sets a fake market value, you know? Yeah, he really should take, same thing with Oscar on Lee, that was a fake

number that was exerted and they do it to increase the price for other people. So, yeah, I, this might be controversial. I think he should stay. I don't know why I go to another team. Yeah, he should definitely stay. He should definitely stay and he should use the, would say probably also like pretty much unlimited resources of that team, you know, to know everything around him, you know, Decatlone is a huge company, the second sponsor, what is it? CM, CM, CM, CM, that's like Decatlone

and, you know, obviously, negotiate the contract, but they should, you know, listen, going to UAE, in my opinion, it makes a zero cent. I don't understand it. You know, there's only, there's only one way I could see him go to UAE is if he's on the other leaves. And then, you know, be in the shadow. Yeah. Pugachar and then take over from Pugachar with Epigastres, what, you know, a year's older than him. Yeah, maybe that could work, maybe. Yeah. Anyway, Pugachar apparently has reportedly

has a deal until 2030 and he said already several times that he's, he intends to finish that contract. So, you know, definitely not go to UAE. He needs to stay at Decatlone, man. I don't understand. I heard a rumor from a rumor manga, someone who does this professionally, and they said, deal, this deal's done. He's already signed with UAE. No, but if you think about it, well, how does that make any sense? And he's not a dumb guy. Like, he wants to go to the tour

as a leader next year. Well, especially in the case of Pugachar, especially in the case of Pugachar, a French guy. You know, it would be any other talent, huge talent and other nationality. You could say, you know what? I'm going to this team. I'm going to sit out the tour. They're going to teach me in the Valtta or the Gira. I'm going to have the whole team around me. I'm going to have other opportunities. Like, he's a success. This, it's only the tour. He can only go to the tour

from that one. You know, before we said, okay, he should do the Valtta or this or that, he's showing now that we were all wrong. I mean, still a week to go to Paris, but I don't expect

him to crack now. And even if he's not on the podium, even if he stopped five, it's amazing.

It's arguably more impressive than Pugachar winning. What he's doing right now. It's without pressure. I was pretty young. Also, you know, when he won his first tour, he was two years older than of though. Yeah, but he was his second year pro. Same thing. Yeah. It's also,

“well, I think we should have agreed the 2022 win was impressive. We're not minimizing that.”

But Pugachar in 2019 was really good, but he wasn't winning that Valtta. You know, six hours, what we're seeing from at this age. Here's a little thing that I heard today. So Luke Roe was going to leave to Cathon as a sport director. He's not not leaving. He's staying for three years. And he think, well, why? Why was he going to leave? Where was he going to go? Do a net company in Aels? That was the didn't want to stay. He could be that there.

So if he signed on for three years, yeah, does he know something that makes that an appealing place to be? It's also a huge, it's a team that has impressed so far, Johan. Am I wrong? Yeah, they were amazing today.

Supporting him. Yeah. They are, they are there. You know, it's not like, you know, there's always

at least two riders with him. And then on top of that, they are the ones who are taking the initiative. And actually putting the hurt on on the favorites, the top eight nine riders. And they have a guy who's

“I mean, they had two guys there together with sexists. That's what you guys.”

Like, what more are you looking for from a sexist? And so they can, I mean, and they can still hire a lot of talent and improve, you know, which they would probably, they will if sexists. Stays there. So, yeah, I think I think he should stay at, I mean, it's, it's a very important topic in France. I don't know if you thought, did you see that, did you see actually that the French president Emmanuel Macron has publicly asked Paul sexist to stay with Decapcom?

I did see this here. He does have a great track record of getting involved with this though. Was that, I don't know, he got involved with him in Bob A and Bob A stayed. The team was worse, and then in Bob A left and the team was, so maybe Macron should just stay out of it. But do you know who, there's two GC riders that have attacked Pagachar this race, do you know who they are? Do GC riders who have attacked Pagachar? Yeah, or have it even just launched any sort of move

off the front of a GC group?

“Lipwitz? Yep. Do they? Yeah, and then someone went with him today?”

Okay, sexists, yeah. Yeah, and this is the only two guys that have done anything in any GC group. So, that's pretty impressive. Yeah, I think he should attack. It was not really an attack. It was, you know, a little acceleration

in Pagachar was just looking behind because he didn't want to be in second wheel.

Well, it did blow up subconscious and then it actually was kind of significant because it blew up like set cruisers and for reasons we still don't understand first counters vinegar to the front,

I still am blown away by that. Here's a question. I still think those Spencer, you know, we've been

“critical about this man, Jonas. I think actually if you look at Jonas's performance today,”

like, and you put the end result on the side, I think Jonas is pretty going pretty well.

That was a really good performance. There's always a difference between the performance and the result, right?

And I think the performance after Jonas, when you got to the hits, he put his own rhythm. It was really hard on everybody else, except Pagachar. And then, you know, he did too much pulling for sure. Makes no sense. He did that. He said that tempo also on that flatter part. And then you would think that when Pagachar attacks, he would blow up at least for a minute. The first minute, he did not blow up. He accelerated a bit and his rhythm was the fastest

of everybody else. So I think Jonas is good. He's definitely not on par with Pagachar and he

“knows it. And I think that's why he's racing like this.”

Yeah, I, I, yeah, he looked go on the climb, but you don't want to lose time to people. If you want to fall, it's not, it'll be, it'll be, it'll be. Don't, it's not to say hi. It's Bobby's here. Bobby needs to, Bobby is, yeah, he's asking my attention. So he comes to say hi to a lot of, to our viewers, viewers love Bobby. So we have a question for you. Are you going to stay here till the end of the podcast or what should I do? Okay, he's going to stay. All right.

Okay, question for Bobby from Leanne. Is it, then I didn't write this question. This is going to sound like I wrote it. Question for Johan. A weapon, are we going to accept that RIMCO shouldn't be going for GC in grand tours? He did win a vaults up, but the vast majority of his success has been in one day races. Every year is way, yo, yo is as prepared for the grand tours, but shouldn't he just

put his weight back on and race classics and cobbles? That's where he's always been the most

successful. Every year, he loses weight to transform into a GC rider and it just doesn't work. Kind of a relevant question and light of the extremely confusing performances we've seen from him on both these mountain stages where he's out of it. Then he's back into it. Yeah, now, listen, we've said it already a few times. RIMCO, the difference with RIMCO this year is that he's fighting. He keeps fighting. He does not, you know, we've seen sometimes like in the past, you know,

he got a difficult day, got dropped and it's like, you know, he gave up on his head. We've seen that several times, that doesn't happen. He's super confident in his abilities and no, I don't think he should give up on GC. Let's not forget that he's, let's have a look at the top 10, right, of this, of this due to France. RIMCO has won a grand tour and he's been podium into due to France.

“How many riders except you want to think of a guard can say the same thing in the top 10? How many?”

I guess. Yeah, okay. I mean, we're not going to talk about that. I mean, okay, I mean, he's never won the VALTA, you know? So he's RIMCO better today. You know, I said we have to ask the question. How many, how many riders except Pogachar and Jonas Vingigar have a podium at the Tour de France and a win in another ground tour? I mean, the only other rider that would be close as lipowits, but he's missing the win in a grand tour part.

Well, I mean, there's one rider in this, there's one rider in this race, right, and it's got a pass. Yeah, but other than that, he's nobody. Well, we then there's Jay Hindley, right? Jay Hindley is as

one to zero and he's been second and third in the zero. Second, yeah, he's won it. He never

been podium at a tour though. No, he's never really meant a tour. That's correct. Yeah. Yeah, it is pretty elite company. Here's the question. So he's a follow-up question on your hand. But but in terms of RIMCO, I think I think RIMCO's going to keep fighting, you know, and RIMCO has figured out that even on really hard stages when he, obviously his goal is the podium, right? He knows he won't win the Tour and he probably also knows he won't be second. So for the moment he didn't third place,

we've had a few hard moments. This is already we didn't have the time trial yet where he will take time on everybody. I think I mean, Paul sticks out pretty good time trails. It's not going to be RIMCO in the time trial. I know, but RIMCO's banking and bank on taking a ton of time back. Yeah, on a guy. But no, I mean, I'm not saying I mean, he probably, I mean, most likely the podium

be top five. But so here's, here's the follow-up. So yeah, I think so too. Let's say fifth, fourth, great, great place, right? Yeah. Is RIMCO want to continue to fight for top five in the tour? Is that interesting to him personally? Well, I mean, no, but he can when not a ground tour and he can,

“I mean, it's you can combine, you know, I mean, I think I think also at Red Bull, they have to”

follow this path at least initially. I mean, he's come. I don't know how long he signed three years probably project well, even a pool of huge investment. The gatherings of another problem, they paid him too much money to get fifth. That's probably true. That's because I agree like he's fighting. I think he could fight all the way to Paris and have a great race. But next year is that going to be motivating. I'm like, I'm going to fight as hard as I can for you know, I'm going to fight as

hard as I can for you know, but you know, I mean, like, I hear people say, you know, okay, yeah, well, you know, why lose the weight, put the weight back home or, you know, mean, I mean, these guys are not robots. It's not like on demand. He's obviously trained very hard, you know, try to be the

light as light as possible. But man, he's still, he's still super powerful. I mean, if you look

the power, he is displaying on those stages. At the end, after having been in trouble, he's lost weight. He doesn't have, he hasn't lost much power. You know, he's super explosive. I mean, it's like, the sprint he won on the, on the other stage today again in Barcelona, he came back from the back, also a super explosive. So it's not like he's lost weight and lost explosiveness. He's still very explosive. Well, well, he's more explosive. You know, it's like,

“you don't have to be faster than the barrier. You have to be faster than the people you're running”

with away from the bear. Yeah. Of course, he's sprinting against other guys that have been dropped. It's probably not explosive compared to Pagachar, which is ultimately what's important or del Toro. But I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I think it's going to be tricky for them because the amount of money they've invested. His personal ambition and expectations is fifth place a success. I would say probably not. It's not. No, it's not. And Remko will not be happy with fifth place

in his mind. He belongs on the podium. That's for sure. I had even enough for Remko though. Well, I mean, post the tour. Yes, under in this with these rivals. Yes, he can't beat you on us in today. He cannot beat them unless one of them gets sick and gets injured or whatever. But you know, he wasn't the podium already in the tour for us. That's how to forget that. You know, we were often fast to criticize him. He's a hell of a bike rider. He's a hell of a bike rider.

Well, I don't think it's, I don't think the debate should be good or bad,

“bike rider. I think we should say good bike rider. But XYZ, but you know, they've spent,”

what do you say? The transfer fee was 7 million. It's a lot. You got to be good.

But plus, plus, plus, reportedly is 6 million Euro salary. So that's 13 million in year one. That's crazy. That's, that's where it starts to came. That's where the logic capes in on itself. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's fifth place money. That doesn't make me, you know. Then again, you know, you're dealing with these multinational companies, Red Bull and what do they care? We just give another five million, whatever. Yeah. I would, I would guess there's employees at

Red Bull who would say. Red Bull's not just hanging out 5 million bucks left and right. Yeah. Ironically, he could probably win the tour of flanders. If forgot to ever as a flat tire, bad luck. Like, to me, that almost looks like his, maybe he was worth the signing just for the classics. I don't know, because he's pretty dang good at the tour of flanders this year.

But why he needs to go to, yeah. I mean, the problem is for Rampco and for most of those talents

of this generation is that Boghachar is everywhere. Yeah. Every single race, Milan's, you go from Milan's on rainbow, the tour of flanders, to almost winning Paris Ube, to winning the tour of France and dominating. It's, it's just insane to think about this. It's like, it's, it's, this is the same as Marx. Marx won everything. You know, he could crash it. Yeah, similar. And then he won't win, right? Sorry. He could crash

at San Ramon, then he won't win, right? Oh, wait. Yeah, that did stop him. I'm kidding. He didn't matter. Yeah. He didn't get lost. He could get distracted by the ocean. That's the only hope at this point. But the, the Rampco quite, it's a sticky, it's a sticky thing just because of the, the transfer fee.

it's Spencer, you know, if you, if it's true, I mean, at least I have no reason to believe

that it's not true because of who told me. You know, this 13 million year, of course,

the 7 million you could spread over three years. But anyways, it's still a lot of money. You know, how can you justify that this star signing does not participate in the tour of France? And good point. See. Very good point. That, that is the point, actually. It's the same thing with Tom Peacock. He's their flagship writer. He's got to go and he's got to compete at least or be seen to be doing that. Yeah, I'm not doing the pool. Same thing. You know, I'm not doing the pool.

Doesn't, doesn't like to her. He has to go when he goes and he wins stages. Yes. So, stage 15. We got to preview this thing. 184 kilometers. Tomorrow's stage Sunday, final stage

before the second rest day. There are four categorized climbs. I count three. I count one. I

count three. And then an H.C. climb. Absolutely brutal finish. We did this final stage of the

“Dough FNA1 by Ezek del Toro. Johan, if you want to bet on it, you can go to NXTBets.com/betoutcums.”

And it will show you exactly how to bet. Where to bet? You can shop the lines, which is key. The favorites for the stage. Now as juicy as yesterday, people are on to us. Tadipagacha, minus 200 for the stage. Richard Caripass, plus 500, Ezek del Toro, plus 1100, Tobias Holland, Johan, and plus 1400. Time and arms are in plus 3000. Johan is finnigarde plus 3000. Derek, G, up here plus 4000. Who needs to get away in this stage? I think Pugachar again.

I think it's a straightforward stage. It's super hard. This climb is incredibly hard. It's not going to, maybe the two of my is probably harder, but still it's, I don't know if the two of my is harder actually. It's longer. I think this is harder than the Toroly. But this is average. Yeah. No, Pugachar is winning. It's maybe the hardest climb they do at this tour.

And you know, we could see the same thing as we saw today, you know, with the UAE keeps it close. Then when we get to the bottom of the last climb, we see Decatlomb and Visma trying to get rid of Ayuso and Ramko and lipoids and then Blachar attacks that you get to go. In short, I mean, another minute, another minute in the back. This and out to as are probably the most straightforward. I'm trying to get my money and on and before people hear this, but this and out to as are probably

the two most straightforward, some of the finishes we have. I have a hard time seeing how he doesn't win. Probably - I think it's not. I think Spencer, I mean, if you look at the the toughness of and the difficulty of this climb, I think Plato the what they call Plato the Solisong.

“I think it's harder than Albuest. It's a full percentage point steeper, you know?”

It's it's it's it's you know, if I remember correctly what I saw in in the Dolphin A, it's like it's constantly, I mean, there's no like Albuest, it's obviously hard. But Albuest is different, you know, you have to switchbacks, the switchbacks are flatter, you can get speed, you can get, have you ever written Albuest? Yeah, it's like it's odd because it's flat corner flat switchbacks. The corners are flatish,

you know, you can come up back up to speed, so obviously that brings with it that, you know, the speeds are all the West are incredibly high compared to another 11-kilometer climb, which is constantly up. But, but yeah, I think this climb is actually harder than Albuest.

Yeah, that's it. I was I was trying to tell the guys that they've never seen this climb because

“I don't want to do it for me, but it is, it's really hard. I think Butgato's probably going to win”

and extend this. Who do you think who comes in second on the day? On this climb, I think you want us and sexists come together. Okay, same time. Second and third on the day. There's your podium all over the day. Yeah. And are you ready to do Ventum trivia? Yep, let's go. So, the question yesterday was, who was the, so there was an artist, Frederick August Bartoli.

Who did the giant line statue we saw outside of Belfort? What other, what other statue that they construct, stuff going on here? Very distracting. What other statue did they construct? That's very famous. What other landmark? Do you have an answer?

thought, while that's easy, I could have answered that, got a Ventum Ventum Racing dot com slash the move to

enter your answer and it will enter you to win a free, not a free. I guess you get $5,000 toward an NS1 or GS1 of your choice. And if you're there, you can shop with the move 10 for 10 percent off. Either an NS1, GS1, TT bike, triathlon bike, ebike, if you'd like, I would highly recommend the ebike while you're there. And today's question is stage 14 crosses the Belon actually stage 13

and 14 cross the Belon day Alsaas, a category one climb. Credit is the first major mountain

climbed in the tourist history. What year did it earn that distinction? Again, go to Ventum Racing dot com slash the move to enter the answer to be entered to win a free bike. Do you know, don't answer, Johan, do you know the answer? No, I don't know, but I'm, I'm actually not, since I said that initially the tour was just around France though they haven't gone, they didn't pass any mountain

mountain regions, they just went around the border. So must have been in the early, in the early years,

“I think. Yeah, and the unusual thing about this is it's a mountain on the border with German or close to”

it. So they would have crossed it. I didn't know this as way earlier than I thought it was actually that your hint pre-termly, but anything else Johan before we take off? That's it. I think we saw a nice stage and tomorrow's much harder than today actually. It's not easy. It was not easy at all. No, we haven't talked about it. I think at all this tour, but also today was low altitude. Tomorrow was low-ish altitude as well, which is good for high altitude. Yeah, it's not that bad. No. So I think

“I don't think that's what you're going to say, which is good for departure. Yeah, I just tend to think”

like these, it's like steep pitches at low altitude for someone that produces a lot of power and is a little bit heavier. That like I said, the climb is good. Are you hinting that he's not good at high altitude costs? No. The others, I would say, the others are more disadvantaged at low altitude climbs and high altitude lines. Things tend to get even out when the altitude gets higher. Yeah, well, I mean, you know, if I'm going to say conservatively, conservatively tomorrow,

he's going to have, and before going to the high altitude mountains, he's going to have a lead of

“five and a half minutes. So it's four and a half right now. I think that's right. Yeah,”

you put a minute into them every once. Yeah. Yeah, five and a half minutes, and then he can only has to win one or two more stages in the night. He just needs to follow you on us. That's it. Yeah, yeah. So this is at tops out of 1,500 meters average of 9% you couldn't come up with a more perfect pagachar climb. This thing's going to be I would guess a blood bath. Well, we'll be back. We'll be back to talk about it after the stage tomorrow, and then we will not be back on the rest

day. So we'll be back tomorrow right after the move to talk about it. Okay, thanks, Spencer. Bye. Bye.