Is Van der Poel's Current Level High Enough to Challenge Pogačar This Spring? | THEMOVE+

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But then Vanderpool, it was his worst spring ever, I believe. Or worse spring since he became good.

“I think he was so drained from that performance.”

Another thing, also Spencer, after today's, obviously great win, right? Spectacular win, unbelievable. He really went to get that victory with everything he had.

You know, I've never seen Vanderpool so empty and exhausted

and having to recover for such a long time. After the race, that was everything he had. Now, question, how is he going to recover from this? Sunday is going to be able to get it. It's on his program.

Yeah. He will race for him to be able to get him in my opinion. You know, it's okay long, right? Yeah, it's longer. I mean, I don't know how long it is,

but it's longer than I've already won. It's like money, my existence. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

So yeah, you know, it takes out of you. You know, I mean, that's the thing, also, with these guys, you know, they don't race a lot, but when they race, they empty every single thing they have in their body. And they need this time to recover.

Normally, I would say after today's performance on a pool will not be fully recovered on Sunday. Everybody, welcome back to the move, plus I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with the O'Honbraniel. We are breaking down a busy, a busy, weak, a busy day of racing.

O'Honbraniel, we have stage five of Volta, Catalonia happening today. You want to spend a garden destroying everyone, showing us why he is still the second best stage racer in this port. And Matthew Vanderpool, winning E3 Herald Becker, Herald Becker.

“If that's what this race is still called.”

We're never quite sure what it's, I guess it's the, the E3 Saxo classic.

It's kind of like a miniature tour of flanders done on Friday before again, wevelgum, nine days before the tour of flanders. But one by Matthew Vanderpool, not in the fashion, we would have thought it was technically a solo win, but he broke away from a long way out after the timeburg. And then was bridging up to groups was solo from about 40 K to go and was caught.

Basically caught inside the last kilometer by a three rider chase group. They didn't close the last meter though and Vanderpool rode away for the win pretty incredible racing. Let's just start with E3, because it's fresh, it's fresh in my mind, because that's one that just finished put where your thoughts from this racer on.

Yeah, I mean, a trailer, a trailer until the very end, as you say, Spencer, Matthew Vanderpool left whoever he was with, you know, that was in attack on the Daimberg from one of the Van Lake brothers I believe, take it then, Daimberg, yeah, so they bridged up to a group and then, yeah, I mean, surprisingly, Vanderpool left quite early there. I personally think, you know, if you would have kept Van Lake with him for a while, probably

have been smarter. But anyways, he, I guess his attack was about 60 K to go, 65 K to go, that's a long way. And, you know, especially in Hargelbick, you know, once the Hilly Zone is finished, it's still quite a while, at least in K, I think. So, you know, usually we'd say I've on the pool as this, right, but, you know, he showed

these human, he's still one, which is, which is incredible.

Actually, I wouldn't have bet a dollar, with five K to go, I thought he was done. And then finally, you know, these four guys, it was Florian Vermeer, Strandhagenis, who was the other guy, he was stand a wolf, and he was one other guy, and he was one of them. It was one of them. And Abraham can Abraham.

Yeah, Abraham to go. Yep. So, you know, I mean, really strong guys, really strong guys.

but you just went and, yeah, I mean, it also takes a really, really strong guy and a class guy to keep going like that physically and mentally, especially because, you know, everybody would sit up, you know, would say, okay, I'm done, you know, after such a long right. So, this is the third time he wins this race.

“I think he has never been off the podium, he was third, second, and three times first,”

many tour of flanners and it's normally the general repetition for the tour of flanners. You know, he looks like he's ready, right? The consequences of the crash in Milan San Reymo seem to be okay, although he did say in a predatory interview that it was quite painful. It didn't, it was not going to hurt his performance, but it was annoying and bothering

him. So, he's ready, but, you know, there's one problem. Because for the people got char, that's the problem for Mottio on the foot of the future, what the next race is. Yeah, and it's not a theoretical, he's won it in the last three years, by the way.

Third year running, all solo.

The problem is not theoretical.

We saw him get dumped by Pagachar on a much easier course at Milan San Reymo than they're going to race at tour of flanners. Today was an incredible win. I still can't believe you won that, as I said, you said I would not have bet any money on that.

He's not strong enough right now, though. That's the problem. Like the narrative interval we saw today is not good enough. Who is that? Who is the problem enough to beat Pagachar right now?

I mean, okay, there was Pitcock who followed him in Milan San Reymo. I think without the crash, Pagachar goes solo on the cheapest sign and makes it to the finish without the crash.

“So, you know, we'll see, I mean, you should normally Pagachar is going to show up at”

his next race. I don't know what his next race is, it's his next race to the flash. Yeah. That's going to tell you about this.

I've never seen this race.

Here's a thought. Here's a thought and it's very doable and possible that Pagachar actually wins all five months in one season. That's what I said in our previous show in December and he said, "Oh, no way." Impossible.

Yeah. Well, of course, you know, like listen, flanners and roubets are in flanners, I mean, the problem is flanners and roubets that there are external fractures, which, yeah, because sometimes difficult to avoid. You know, he already won in my opinion the most difficult one for him to have in Milan

San Reymo after a crash. So what can stop him?

“You know, flanners, normally he'll win again, I think.”

Now he also has a super strong team. We saw today, for example, Florian Vermeerch was unbelievable.

That performance was incredible Spencer because when they started the broadcast, Florian Vermeerch

was in the back after a mechanical way out of race, of the racetrack, actually, and comes back and then finally is still on the podium. So, you know, we know that they have a strong team. So yeah, I think flanners, normally, you know, okay, you can also say last year, if you look at flanners last year, Pagachar did drop Van der Poel, but Van der Poel also crashed into

a flander last year and, and apparently he was, he was bothered by that hurt by that. So we'll see, you know, I think we have to, I think we, I'm trying to talk in that in that way to keep the hopes up a little bit, right, because otherwise, it's just gonna be Pagachar to show the whole year, which I don't mind, but, you know, I don't mind, I would like Pagachar to win every race.

That might not be everyone's opinion, but we just started when he 342 K solo break away and we're talking about how he doesn't stand at chance. I didn't mind him. It's kind of, it's a little ridiculous. I, I think when I said Pagachar is gonna win all five, you said, well, the big problem

is saying Ramos. So that's another way, I do think Rubes is a big pro, Rubes is tough not to crack. It's not a, that's not a game to win. And then the change also Ace Spencer, you know, Van der Poel, when Pagachar's there, from the pool, will and has to race differently, he does, he cannot go on these big attacks,

he needs to try to follow, yeah, Pagachar, which sometimes, in Van der Poel's case, is an advantage because we have seen sometimes, from the pool, do this incredible show, you know, like, go away and then finally, sometimes, not make it or fade away or almost, almost not make it, you know, if I remember, there was one stage, once in Dereno, the article also, that way he did that.

Well, he almost got caught by Pagachar, and Pagachar sat up and gave him a stage. But then Van der Poel, it was his worst spring ever, I believe, or like worst spring since he became good, yeah, I think he was, like, so drained from that performance.

win, right, spectacular win, unbelievable.

He really went to get that victory with everything he had, you know, I've never seen Van der Poel

so empty and exhausted and having to recover for such a long time, after the race. That was everything he had. Now, question, how is he going to recover from this, Sunday is going to be able again. It's on his program. Yeah.

“Yeah, he will race for him to be able again in my opinion, you know, 20k long, right?”

It's, yeah, it's longer. I mean, I don't know how long it is, but it's longer than 211, it's like money resistance. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

So yeah, you know, it takes out of you, you know, I mean, they, that's the thing also with

these guys, you know, they don't race a lot, but when they race, they empty every single thing they happen, they're body and they need this time to recover, um, normally I would say after, after today's performance on a pool, will not be fully recovered on Sunday. No, I would say not and we, I think we were talking about this off Mike recently is he's not the most arrow writer, so be solo for 40k like that on the flats.

It's, it's very hard for him, especially with a chase group that's strong working together that well. Um, and yeah, maybe that does give an advantage when Pagotja is around because then he's not solo by himself, presumably. We should say I'm old enough to remember, when Watt and Art Matthew Vanderpull and Ted

Pagotja were the three, like lead group at this race in 2023, it seems like, an I grew up, this was a big race when I grew up, like the big set piece before Flanders. It seems like it's getting less popular, maybe because of what we just said, you know, no Pagotja, no, no Van art today because I assume they don't want the fatigue.

“They want, like, what are they doing that's not this race, like, what's the thinking here?”

Yeah, I mean, also, I mean, avoiding risk, I think, you know, all these races they involve decent amount of risk for crashes. Um, I don't know, actually, I mean, listen, I mean, Pagotja, I can understand because he has so many different goals throughout the season, where every time he shows up, he needs to be 100%.

I don't really understand why Well Van Art was not at the start today, um, but then again, you know, I mean, it's the combination of hard will bake and, uh, and again, it's not an easy one, you know, and then especially because the week after it's Flanders and the week after it's buddy to bet. Yeah.

I'm wondering if they're modern, like if modern science is telling them, maybe it's not a good idea to do two classics in three days, but I think I think before, if I think before, Arro Baker was, uh, I don't know if I was, I think it was on a weekend.

“Um, I mean, they shifted the calendar there because normally, normally, again, we ever”

had more than between, in between Flanders and Pagotja, every year was the Wednesday in between midweek. Yeah. Yeah. So what they changed that, you know, they kind of played around with some dates for the races,

but, uh, but yeah, the combination Friday Sunday, I will bake it, I'll make it as a hard race band. It's a very hard race.

It's basically the Flanders course, just like, slightly inverted.

Yeah. It's a Flanders course, and then, you know, it's, it's nervous, it's windy, uh, it's 206k, um, yeah, it's not easy, especially, but anyway, so I mean by yourself, great, great wind by by by Vonderpool, you know, uh, I have to say, though, you know, I don't know what you were thinking, Spencer, I kind of had a little bit of doubts that he was not on a

great day when he went a solo, it took him forever to close those 40 seconds with those six guys in the breakaway, and, you know, there were strong guys there, but, you know, it took a very long time, it took a lot out of him, um, normally, I would have thought, you know, he's going to just close this in, in a heartbeat, and it took him, I would say probably exactly 20k to close that gap.

Yeah, because he dumps the chase group, he jumps, dumps D G 2 at 64k to go, catches the breakaway at 42k to go, um, or 45 rides away at 42, took him a long time. Another thing I was, it's funny, you mentioned this, I have this in my notes. On the tie and bird, he's not the one attacking. It's 10 van Dyke.

So, right there, that's a little odd, isn't it? Like, whenever you've seen van Dyke, and he sits in the wheel for a long time, like, three or four, okay, it was, I was shocked to how patient he was mean, but maybe it wasn't patients, maybe it was, well, it's in spacer, you know, if you can win, E tree, hard will bake it, and not being on a great

in a group with Van der Poel, A, you want to be in front, you want to be stand a wolf, they guys in the early breakaway, he's getting what fourth on the day, like that's impressive. That's where you want to be, you want to be a head of anterpole, let's say you're 10 van Dyke in that group, should you be attacking, I understand attacking, you get up and over

“the climb, should you be pushing with Van der Poel in your wheel, why would someone do that?”

Yeah, I mean, I was surprised to see him drop straight away, you know, that was a surprise,

because if Van Dyke has already had some good results, you know, he was second in

head news blood, behind Van der Poel, he was, he was stopped in, I think you're not another, he was up there in all those races, so I was surprised to see him drop straight away, I mean, the moment he goes, I think it's okay to work with Van der Poel, maybe a little bit less than, I would say if I'm on the pool, there's two thirds of the work and you do one third of the work, that would, but he looked really strong, I mean, that attack

on the time was quite impressive from on Dyke, so I think he, he may, he may have thought, you know, I'm on a great day, I'm just going to go for it, you know? I was surprised when I thought there was something wrong with my feet, because Van der Poel,

“I was like, why are they not showing the riders behind him, but he just ridden off the group”

and then Tim Van Dyke, who I agree looked stronger, with 70 kg, was dropped by 64 kg,

it's like, well, yeah, maybe he did think that was his day and he was the stronger rider, very good rider though, we should say super impressive, other impressive riders, Madge Pederson kind of starts mixing it up after the quairmont with like, 65 kg, go, misses them, he's stirring the pot, but then he misses the counter move, we have per strong, per strong hugness from Visma, Norwegian, Jonas Oberhenson from UNOX, another Norwegian, these

Norwegians are taking over all of sports, by the way, like we have to do something about this, Floy and Vermiche and then they catch stand a wolf, but that group was so strong, that was super, I know they bifed the win, but super impressive chase from those guys. Yeah, yeah, and that's also the reason why I was so difficult for Van der Poel to stay away, you know, those were four, I mean, the wolf did a turn now and then, I mean, logically,

he's been out there to hold the whole race, but those other three guys are big, big engines. So yeah, it's still, I still can't believe he won, man, the way he looked at one kid ago, that was just crazy. They were, they were like, they're going to swarm, I'm let's say, you're a director, we saw your friend, Kristoff Rue to if he was using yelling instructions at Van der Poel, I don't know what he was saying, probably go, go faster, go as fast as you can.

That group gets right to the back, we'll have Van der Poel, what would you have done in that group? Because I was thinking, I don't quite know what I would do here. Well, that's the problem, that's the problem why they were hesitating, because once you catch him, it was still a kilometer, so then what, right? So somebody's going to attack, I mean, normally, I would expect Obers, Oberham, something to attack, so they were waiting for that,

then, on the other hand, Vermeer's new that, that, so Hagenessin is faster than him, and the wolf was tired, so, you know, I could, I can understand that there's this moment of hesitation, you know, when, when, when, I don't know who would have won, probably probably the, the Vismagai, right? Hagenessin would have won, because I mean, it's also after such a long chase, you know, these guys don't have much left to to attack,

“right? It's basically with whatever you have to just sprint to the line, and, you know,”

so I think I think there was one clear favorite in those four, which was Hageness, and then, that's probably also the reason why nobody wanted to collaborate with him, when the moment was there to catch on the wolf. And Vermeer's on the front, he does not close the gap all the way, because, hey, he's probably concerned about what you're saying. Hagenessin was on his wheel, he's going to outspend him, and then he's singing as soon as I close this gap,

Jonas Abrahonson's attacking, right? Yeah, like we all know what would have happened then. So, it's not quite as easy as it looks, watching it, saying, what are these guys doing? But, oh yeah, I mean, I've seen a lot of criticism on social media, people who are, I mean, really,

like, respectless criticism, not really, I mean, yeah, a lot of people have never written the bike,

and then don't know what it is to be in the final of a bike race. I agree, it was, it was, you know, within reach, very within reach, but, you know, these things happen. And especially if you have a guy like Wunderpool, I mean, any, any other rider would have been called, but, you know, this is Matthew Wunderpool, right? Well, then he, because he's like,

oh, you're about to be caught to, whoa, let's reframe the conversation, you're off the front.

“Like, yeah, Matthew Wunderpool, foot off the front, that guy's gone, you know, like, he didn't”

thought, like, oh, I have a gap. I just have to accelerate it. It was a moment in race. There was a moment in Spence, I mean, it maybe was the way it looked on TV, but I was, you know, it was a moment like he looked back, and he, he, he made it seem like he was going to, he was sitting up. I know, yeah. And that's the moment when they, has it dated, and that's when he went again. Well, we'll talk about it later in the show, but

same thing with Jonas Finnergard, these guys who win, you know, this, I don't know if anyone's noticed, the same few writers win every race in Procycling, they're very strong, but they're also operating like at a different level on the tactic side. Like these guys are the composure and the ability like to read the race and they're like, oh, I'm going to look like I'm going to sit up, and then they're going to sit up, and then I'm going to ride away. Like, that's not normal.

That's pretty impressive to do that on the fly. Yeah, for sure. Anything else about what do you think of Mads Patterson? He missed the movie, he was chasing a lot. He's, he's up there, you know, he's, I personally think it's probably going to be, you know, he's catching up, he's in time trial mode to get really to back to 100%. That doesn't, most, most likely it tends not to work, because you, you, you, you progress really,

really fast, they say, oh, wow, I'm amazed, and then you can stagnate. He comes from, you know, this collarbone fracture with surgery, risk fracture with surgery when we've, we've all seen the images hit on the rollers, having to rest both of his arms. You know, it's impressive. He's there. It's impressive. He's racing. It's impressive. He did 14 minutes on the rainbow. He's going to be there in the final of, again, we're looking at

him and Flanders and Ruben. I think, but will it be enough to be at his best? I mean, I hope it for him, you know, he's a very likable guy. He's really great, great bike rider, but I fear that he's going to hit his ceiling now. And when he thinks he's going to keep improving, then it's usually when

you kind of stagnate. So I hope I'm wrong. I'm hoping wrong. Listen, it's incredible where he is right now.

So anybody with, you know, six weeks ago, he was on the floor and on the ground and well, the Valencia with broken bones. So, you know, these guys are not normal, you know. Yeah. And he has a bad race and finishes 93. So pretty good. And he gets a little come back here. I, I am shocked at how strong he looks. Like that, that was pretty impressive today.

“We'll see what he, I don't think he's going to, he had, like, remember that 50k solo break”

away. Get mobile gum last year. I don't think that's going to happen again. But no, I'm curious to see, also get mobile gum is no longer called get mobile gum. What is it? Inflanders fields or something. Inflanders fields? Yeah. And then the it continues, but I can't like even get it to expand. Well, listen, Spencer, it's headlabel. Yeah. It's got like the dolphin is the dolphin is going to be the dolphin. A, you know, it's, you know, the same thing like. Grompary E3, hardlebaked is going to be

Grompary E3, hardlebaked, you know. So what's the historic crossover between? Because I always say about

omlook, it feels big in the moment. And then you've almost forgotten it by founders. What's the historical crossover between E3 winners and Flanders winners? Is there many? Yeah. Yeah. Many. Many now. What's never happened in them is somebody winning Flanders who has won omlook. Yeah. Isn't that weird? Yeah. So yeah. You know, on the pool can, I mean, it's going to be hard to be too much. But hey, there's circumstances. You know, you never, you never know, and especially in

Flanders and Ruby, there's a lot of things that can happen outside of being the strongest on the bike. I still can't believe forgotcha's doing, send his schedule is saying, Ramot, Flanders, Ruby. That's like, I don't think I ever seen that. I'm Flandier. I know. I don't think he's doing amstell. He's not crazy. He's not doing amstell. Yeah. That's, that's cool there. And that makes more sense.

“Has he ever won amstell? No, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What year would you have won it two years ago?”

He didn't race it. He did strad us and Ramot, Catalonia, the age. Okay. Well, I'm sure he won. I'm still 100% sure. Okay. 23. He won amstell. Okay. Because he did Flanders. He didn't do

Rubei. That was the difference. Yeah. Yeah. So he never needs to go back to amstell gold again.

That's done. But this is crazy. It's Flanders Rubei, the age. Romantly Swiss to a France. Wow. Wow. That is a serious. That's a not mess. And that is good.

After the age, altitude, til, till Romantly and then between Romantly and Dolphin A, between Romantly and Tour Swiss, altitude, I guess. Probably more altitude. I did seem, they didn't seem a little down on altitude. They said they're going to try to do less altitude in 2026 and 2025. They weren't totally sold on it. I would actually be really interested in know what his exact protocol is. How much he's sleeping on altitude 10 at home and

“how much. You know, I mean, you didn't do altitude at home also. Yeah. So I think that's that's like the”

new trend. Yeah. How many things else on E3 before we go to Catalonia? Oh, that's it. All right. Let's take a quick ad break and we'll be back to talk about Catalonia. Everybody this episode is brought to you by Hymns. You've got places to be sitting in a waiting room waiting for hair loss treatment is not one of them. Hymns makes expert care accessible on your schedule. So you can skip the line and focus on feeling like yourself. Again, Hymns offers convenient

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can't not cancel as eight. Can't not cancel as Asians, but shortening of stages. So stage one was like like this classic uphill cagey sprint. One by door, Dorian Godon, very good sprinter for

one by Dorian Godon from Nios. Stage four, another sprint, Ethan Vernon, because the summit finish was called off because of gusty winds. I've been in gusty winds myself at high altitude and I totally get why they did that. And then today's stage five, stage three, by the way, it was the stage that room department of Paul decided, I'm just going to write up the front of the Peloton with the Honest vinegar in my wheel and I'm going to pull him around and then I'm going to crash and the

fun around about thus negating any work I just did. Stage five, really tough some finish like 19k long, cold, cold Nepal. Is that what this is? It's like 19k 7% average. I had a feeling that it was going to be just like a show for Jonas and it was he attacked Felix Gaul as launching the attacks earlier. Jonas finnigarde goes and he does it, you know, he's not like a pagachau where you're like, oh my god, he's he's launching but he just kind of grind you down and by the finish, he finished

51 seconds in front of golf, one-to-one in front of Lenny Martinez, who finished with Floreen Lipwitz, who is now the GC leader on Red Bull because his teammate Remcubinipole finished

138 back. The GC is now Jonas finnigarde first, Felix Gaul second, Lenny Martinez third,

Floreen Lipwitz, Valentin Perry Panchro, Remcub, Evanapole and Jonas finnigarde has almost a minute lead

“on second place. Felix Gaul, what were your takeaways from this race?”

Yeah, well for starters, Spencer, so we went through the winners of those sprints, you know, I think logical, you know, Godong was super strong, we already showed this in in-body niece, you know, great, great addition for in-aosman. Yeah, it's guy, huge pick-up, like one of the best pick-ups they've had in a long time. Vince races, Vince races, you know, Vince races, Magnus Cork, that was, you know, it's been a while since we've seen Mark Manus Cork win this sprint

and that was, and then go down again, so the first three races were won by the most precious of the

Peloton, right? Yeah, yeah, it's about stage three, Spencer, I have, you know, this, this, this attack of Remcub going away on the flat and then Jonas following him. I didn't like that, man. I think it was clear that Red Bull had a plan, they all knew that was going to be crosswinds in the final, they were super organized, you know, they were all in the front, they broke the Peloton, if I'm not mistaken, I'll made out was in the back. Yeah, I don't

know if they would let me by the else caught, but I'll made out was definitely in the back. So, you know, at that point, and also I also, Visma was there with the three or four guys,

“Ineos was there with four guys also, I think. So, you know, at that point, you say, you have to,”

you have to, you have to make the assessment, what's the situation? We got rid of one rival, but, you know, we are not the super favorite here unless you think you are the super favorite, but, you know, you cannot, not say that if you're on a thing, your guard is in there in the race. So, you know, when that happens, you need to keep relying on your team, you know, and keep the team together, and try to take as much possible time, first of all, and then also, when you stay with your team,

in crosswinds, you stay out of trouble, because a lot of things can happen in crosswinds. You can, yeah, off the road, you know, like, so, that was kind of undoing, everything the team had done before, and, you know, they, yeah, they may have, they might have made it to the finish without a crash, and it could have been a stage win, but, you know, is that really worth the effort, because they went, how long was it? Was it 20k, 25k, man? Yeah, so long. So, you know, that kind of effort, when you're there,

to try to be up there in G.C., and, you know, especially with the three, I mean, ultimately, it's going to be only two mountain stages, but initially three mountain stages. That's not, I didn't like to see that, you know, so you can say, well, Ramko is impulsive, you know, he feels great, okay, you can say, okay, yeah, in the moment of, in the heat of the moment, you do that, but I don't understand why from the car, there has not been a callback, say, Ramko, okay,

you're, you're ahead, but your big, your big rival is with you, you know, if we think,

“this is going to go the way we think it's going, normally, because I think Ramko, usually,”

when he gets into a stage race, especially coming of one mountain altitude, he's normally always super good,

so that was in their mind, right? Ramko's good, he's going to be first or second in Catalonia. If then if you're away with the big rival, and, and you see that the big rival doesn't,

go back with where it's safe, it's safe there with you. You know, seeing your big rival, I was not working as hard as you, because they're in your wheel, yeah, but I don't understand, I mean, I don't understand why from the car, there was no instruction to say, Ramko, back off, you know, this is not going anywhere, we're not here to win a stage, we're here to try to win the Catalonia, right? Because at this point in his career, what difference doesn't make you,

Ramko win a stage in Catalonia? No, nothing, no difference, it's either he wins the GC or he doesn't,

“that's the only thing that counts. So I blame the direction from the car to not have said or”

orders or maybe whatever has been said, maybe Ramko doesn't listen, I don't know, you know, I'm not there, but I feel like there's not been a clear instruction from the car to assess the situation and call him back once they saw that Jonas was there, but he shouldn't have gone for starters, he shouldn't have gone by himself. You know, if you have a plan to split the Palatom with the crosswinds, you stay with your team man, that's the way you're going to make the

most difference. Yes, I agree, I agree, shouldn't have gone, he shouldn't have gone, he shouldn't gone with Jonas since we all. Let's even think about this, this is what really starts to worry me. So his team has a plan, they execute the plan perfectly, has he not been listening, does he not know like what's going on here? How does he not, he should be looped in on that. He leaves them, let's say he rides away solo. Let's just, wow, works out perfectly. Ramko, you're so strong,

“you're unbelievable. Also, Jonas, man, Jonas is operating that guy, knows what he's doing, right?”

He's on his wheel, he's, you know, Ramko's yelling at him. He's working a little bit, but he's working enough to keep Ramko working, so he's like, you know, this is like Kaiser so say in this situation. Like, he's putting Ramko where he wants it, but let's say Ramko rides away. Just play this out. Okay, well, Jonas is there with his big strong team. That's not a problem. And you know what, they just have to wait for UA, who's chasing behind because now, Red Bull's not going to push the

face. And what would Ramko gain two seconds plus, yeah, because most of Spencer with the attack of Ramko, right? What he accomplished actually is that the UA guys who were dropped came back, came back and pulled. There were more people, you know, in the peloton to, to work. So, that was not a move I liked agreed, you know what I said? We would probably have been saying differently if they make it to the finish and Ramko beats Jonas and the sprint that was

we would have said, oh, you know, amazing. But still, in the long run and the big picture of the

GC of Catalonia, it's not as smart move. Well, and you open yourself up to events like the event that happened when he crashed because you're on the limit man, you're not thinking right, you've been pushing 550 watts for the last 20 minutes and you make a mistake in the final round about. And then you can understand why we, you know, it's very unusual, you know, to, it's bad luck. Obviously, you know, he said he was on the hoods and then the moment he went to the drops, he must have hit a

hole or something. It's like your house went. It's a look at that stretch road, no hole. I still that. Yeah, it was not a big hole. There was, there was a, there was a tiny little crack, but listen, it can happen, you know, I think it was actually also a tiny bit of a speed bump just before the round about or something. It can happen, right? Listen, if they make it both to the finish, even even when Remko would have been pulling all the time, I still think you would have won the

sprint because you don't think they would have gotten caught. Those guys were closing and fast. No man.

No, no, no, they wouldn't have gotten caught. What do you think the final gap is? One second,

two seconds. So it's go down. Yeah, it's insignificant. It's a, you know, bonuses, but you know,

“the bonuses, you need to take the bonuses on your big rival, you know, and you know,”

yeah, it's not a 10 second bonus. It's a, it's a four-year bonus. It's easy for us to say this now, this criticism about stage three, knowing what happened in stage five, right? Well, that's my question. It's this, did he know this was coming and he was looking for stage one? I don't think so, man. I think, I think Remko was, um, went in with confidence. I mean, the proof today, they were taking the initiative of the race red bull. They, they drove it on, um, they, they drove it

on the, on the second last climb. They went fast in the downhill. There were crashes in that

down. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But so I think personally that, that Remko was, and the team had confidence. I mean, you know, and until you're not there, until you're, I mean, they probably also saw

They didn't have to drop like that. They listen to the podcast. They shouldn't have.

“Yeah. But today he was, he was impressive. Today he was really, uh, in control, um, yeah,”

new perfectly way was what he was doing. And, uh, yeah, there was no competition for you and us today. Well, also to, I mean, weird race, because stage four rolls around. You have Tom Pickock up there, picking up time bonuses. And it kind of reminded me of you. It can war. Generals will like whole tight and for it makes the enemy nervous and the enemy starts to make mistakes when they don't need to. All of this is just a necessary. We have a massive stage for some of finish on stage five,

forget about the time bonuses. Forget about attacking, stay fresh for that, and Jonas is just watching these guys burn matches. Like you look at Pitcock yesterday. He's frying valuable matches for little tiny time bonuses. And then usually I'm a time bonus guy. And in this case,

“maybe maybe hold back because, uh, there's a big challenge coming. We have a problem though. At this”

point, we have enough data to tell us, Rimko and Ripple is no longer an elite climber. Like what has gone on here? This is what like the seventh consecutive stage race that this has happened then. It's obviously a problem. You know, I mean, this season, it's the second time he gets a big blow. Right. So for the confidence, that's obviously not great. And it's also not a coincidence anymore. It's recurring. Right. So yeah. As I said, you know, I expected Rimko to be at the level of

Jonas, uh, for Catalonia because, you know, history has shown that when he gets back from

altitude training camps, he's always at his best. Uh, you know, uh, yeah. I mean,

the way the way this sport is evolving man, um, right now he's not in the top three or five best climbers. Uh, you know, you can see that the guy, I mean, he can climb, but he needs to write his own tempo. Right. And that's obviously not possible, but especially with Jonas and with today, uh, you know, so, um, so yeah, I mean, he wasn't able to follow, uh, Felix Gallo or, uh, lipoids or

“Lenny Martinez or, you know, so, um, yeah, it's, uh, I'd be worried. I'd be worried. What's the plan?”

What inside of it? What? Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I think, you know, the worst they can do not was panic, right? And say, oh, you know, that's just, I would, you know, lower the expectations, take the pressure off and, you know, he's a great rider, you know, he can generate a lot of power. He's going to bounce back at some point. But, uh, if that's enough to be a candidate for the podium in a ground tour, that's different. Although ground tours are different

in one week's stages, but as we said already, Spencer, you know, it's also not a coincidence that

Ramko with this huge potential, you know, huge talent has never won one of those seven

one races. And he's, again, I'm going to win it, right? So, um, yeah, it's, uh, they need to get back to the, to the drawing table. And, uh, but, you know, calmly, you know, no panic and just, you know, I would not obsess, I'm not obsess about, uh, about the tour at all. I mean, there's, they can't obsess about it because right now there's not enough data to, to be, you know, like focusing on, on him going full gas for the tour to France as the only G.C. rider rider of Red Bull.

Uh, but maybe, you know, slowing down a bit and lowering the expectations could be a good thing and then sometimes, you know, all of a sudden, when nobody expected, you're, you're there, you know, he is very strongly, we know that. Um, he writes with a lot of temper, you know, that's also not great to be a stage racer. Uh, we can see it again. Yeah. I, you know, like, with this, this, getting wound up and, you know, yelling at Jonas and, you know, that's not great, you know, I mean, it takes, and I mean,

his, his character and his temperament, uh, which is great. And people like to see it, but it, it, it takes energy. Yeah, it does. I mean, I was just going to ask you like you know better than anyone. Stage racing is a mindset. It's, it's, you know, like a goalkeeper and hockey or soccer or their weird. There's like, we, it's with their weird people. It's, it's not normal. It's kind of like stage racers. Stage three showed me though. It's like, I just don't know if this guy setting aside

the climbing, the physical, the physical, whatever's going on there. I, I just don't know if he

riding away like, that's not really how you want to stage race. And it kind of shows you why he's never

won a big seven one week race. Yeah. Yeah. Listen, let's not forget he won the Vuelta and he was there to do it. Well, you know, we have to, we have to say he can, he can do stage races, you know, I mean, which is though he won that Vuelta, how can he have won a grand tour and never one

“of these one, these one week races are far better for him. Yeah. That's what I don't understand.”

Yeah. In theory, those one week stage races should suit him perfectly. You know, I, I also think still that, you know, because you, you, you tend to see more and more in modern cycling that even those one week stage races that they kind of see them as five or six, six, one they race is after each other. Yeah. I still think that you need to race differently. You know, you, you can't, on stage three, you can't go out with 30 K to go

and just go full gas and then if you, if you know that there's three big mountains stages, that's just not the way to do it unless these guys are superhuman human and they just recover and the day after it's like they didn't race before, but you know, that's, that's not true. That's not true. Yeah. We saw a proof that that's not true. I mean, and didn't lose that much time. It was just one 30 minutes. But we know, you know, we listen to that, the guy who who breaks all those rules,

for example, is that they pull that chart. I mean, we, how many times have we said, you know, why does he do this crazy shit in the, in the tour? And now he goes when, when he doesn't have to, you know, but yet he's so strong and recover so well that it doesn't really matter.

But you know, well, he goes, but he makes sure he's away. Right. Like Pagotcha would never just

pull with a rival tucked into his wheel pocket. Yeah. Like that, that starts like, are you paying

“attention? Or is the question I would have if I was working on that team? Like, what are we doing here, man?”

Yeah. No, listen, I, I don't think we should blame Rampo too much. You know, I blame the team direction to not have taken the decision, you know, Rampo, what the hell are you doing and get back with your team? Those are the, that's the two sentences that I should have said, you know, what are you doing? That's, you know, and we'll back with your team. You know, I think it's a writer, a writer, led peloton currently. I don't know. Probably. Yeah. But that shows you. I mean, there are teams

where people talk like that to writers and they tend to do pretty well. Like the team we saw today, Winnie three question about the Valtza 2022. That's a long time ago. Now, almost five years ago, he wins the Valtza. Is he a worse climber than then or is the climbing level higher than then? Because he was a pretty high climber when he won that Valtza. Yeah. I think the head level has going up. I'm pretty sure his numbers are the same or better than then. I, I would agree. Same

to like, you know, let me tell you a little story. You know, I don't know if I can say the, I'm, I'm not going to say the name because anyway, it's not, it's not a huge writer, but it's a pretty good writer. You know, one, one already quite a little racist. So I got this information, this guy turned professional nine or ten years ago. And when he turned pro, he's a tiny guy, small guy. It doesn't weigh a lot. So his 20 minute power was 330 watts when he turned pro.

He's one racist through those nine or ten years quite a lot. And now nine years later, his 20 minute power is 400 watts for things. Wow. 70 watts more. Whoa. Now they did some research. And he's, he's now at the level of peak Peter Peter second. It doesn't seem good.

“And almost doesn't mean any racist. That's how much it, it has changed. Well, let's just take”

this, this person who is small. Let's just say they're 58 kilos. 330 watts. When he turned pro, that's like 5.7 watts per kilo for 20 minutes. That's really good back in the day. People don't remember, but that was good. Now it's close to seven. Yeah, he isn't that wild. Yeah. But like, someone did an overlay of like Derek G racing the 20 15 to utter France is like riding away from everybody. It is current power numbers if he just dropped him in there. But yeah, the level has got,

I think you're right. I think Remco's right faster climber than he was in 2022. It's just the level

is higher now. Why he's not, there's probably many a million reasons why he's just maybe

Just pretend to climb as a time trial and write up. Let's see what happens. Yeah. Well, yeah, still, I don't know. I don't know if there's also a mental aspect to it. You know, the moment, the moment he's kind of, I don't know. I mean, I listen, I don't know Remco personally at all. So I can't

say, but you know, what I would do is, you know, obviously, there's no doubt that he's an amazing

athlete, right? His palm are I speak for itself. You know, like so many times we'll jump in double a little bit big champion, you know, one of those races. Something needs to change. I would go back to a little bit more relaxed, more feeling wise, you know, not super, super obsessed with the numbers and just, you know, back off a little bit and see how it goes. And especially, I would say,

“put less stress on yourself, you know, put less pressure on yourself because I think that's”

Remco is so ambitious that he is probably the one who puts the most pressure on himself and, you know, it's it stands to be the case with champions, right? So it's easier said than done, of course, you can't change the way somebody is and thinks, right? But, yeah, they need to, they need to change strategy with Remco. I would, more from a human and mental point of view, I think they need to change. Well, after that, see, it's a bunch of one days. Amstell flushly is, he's going to be great at those,

right? He's a great one day racer. I would say better or far better one day racer now than a straight racer. And then you have the dolphin A. The dolphin A is the one, like that's his big test. You're like, he could, he could turn this all around if he wins the dolphin A. But,

yeah, why not listen? I mean, a champion, you can never write out of a champion, you know,

he's done it in the past. He's still relatively young. The thing is, you know, they need to find something for him to get out of this circle now. It's in this, you know, blow after blow, when it really, when he expects first of all and everybody expects him to be up there with the best and right away from the best, something needs to be done. I don't know what that is, but I would start with taking things a little bit more relaxed and doing it more like the natural or feeling

way. You know, not so much, okay, I do this and I do this and, you know, everything's so regulated

“at the end. You know, I understand certain things need to be done, but you need to find the balance.”

And so, you know, you can have all the best scientists and experts and aerodynamic specialists and engineers and nutritionists around you. But at some point, it gets too noisy. It gets too noisy. It's so much going on that, you know, these guys are still human beings, you know, and yeah. I mean, that's just my thought. Well, he's got to stop yelling at you on his, that would mean, my first piece of advice. Don't make you on his mad. Don't yell at him. Remember he did that

at the tour in 2024. Yeah. On the twastage, and then he was yelling at primos at this race in 2023. It's like, let's not make these guys mad. I mean, it's the anti-rem co, who you barely notice, feel it's golf sitting second over all this race quietly doing very well. Like, below the radar, fit that UA tour earlier this year. Last year, eight at the Valtah, fifth at the tour,

fourth at tour of Switzerland, fifth at tour of the Alps. You know, he's never really on the

podium, but he's I'm shocked at how consistent he has become. Since remember, we were criticizing him.

“I think it was the 2024 Valtah. He was all over the place. You know, this performance. Well,”

also Spencer. Yeah. He was a eight at the Valtah this last year. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then the year before the Valtah was like, it was one of the most inconsistent performances I've ever seen to the point of being confused and been very consistent since then. I mean, quite impressive writing from him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Listen, I mean, great result. Climes really well. I mean, he was already really good in UAE on that hard climb. Also, you know, he was the guy who started it the attacks today again.

Right. Yeah. Looks like he's in for a great season. And he doesn't go to the move by the way. I go for the Jiro. Yep. All in for the Jiro tire. And then the tour, I guess, as Paul say, Charleston Matthew. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I've been conformed. It's not been confirmed. They're going to decide after they are then classics. But, but I think he's going to do it to say shots. You've

if you're 19 years old. I would. Well, I would. I can't have a degree. Someone said to me, why not? Like, what's the reason not to? It's a mental solution. There's nothing that can go wrong for Paul say shots, right? In the in the tour. I mean, if he if he doesn't perform the way we expect, you know, everybody. Oh, you know, he's 90. He's the learn. It's going to be a great learning experience.

“So, yeah, no, I think he should do another round to your first. I would send him to the Vuelta.”

Well, you're reminded the you're leading in perfect to this. So, Dylan growing a vegan. He's on Unibet Rose Rocket tour, not invited to the tour. And people are upset about this, especially the younger hip or crowd is not. I don't understand why people are upset about this. Well, I would say,

can you can't have your first grand tour as a team be the tourfronts? That's mean, you can, but, you

know, I mean, it's it's has that ever he missed three years old and they have hyped his up so much that everybody was assuming that it was going to be normal. But then if you look at the standings, there's a team that's better than them in the standings. It's Kaharural. You know, you can also say, yeah, why this Kaharural goal to the tour. But well, somebody's why we why would teach them our goal to the tour. Okay, they're the hip team, they're flashy. They're, I mean,

they're, it's a different approach. Great, but, you know, at the end of the day, Kaharural was in front of them in the standing. So, plus, you know, do a stunts in Spain.

Kaharural might have some business with the SO. It's a nice, it's a very, it's not the first time

by the way that Kaharural is in the tour de France, right? You know that, right? Yeah, you, I know that because you told me on a previous podcast, I did not. But we should,

“growing up against one is last three races. His last race was, was fake. Remember, it was a”

bruised upon a, it's not bruised upon anymore. It's bruised a bruised a much say for a much better race. He beats, he asks for Phillips, pretty freaking impressive performance. And what a pick-up this guy has been for? Yeah, I did not, you have one coming Spencer. I thought, you know, like, he had, you know, he was not at his best at Jake or he would, he comes from Jake or, right? Yeah. He was not as his best there, you know, for two or three seasons, and couldn't really, you know,

win, but man, the way he sprints now and the way the team is working around him, also, in the lead out to those sprints, it's pretty impressive. So, he won his last three sprints, it's last three, race, race starts. And he actually, do you, do you remember his last tour win? It's not as long ago as people think. Yeah, I know, I know, I know. He was on, he was on

“Jake or no? Jake, oh, yeah, he won, I believe it was there only two years of win in 2024. Yeah,”

got to your last race on Jake as well. Yeah. But still, you know, he's not, he's not been at this

level for a while. And yeah, he also first, world tour win for TTIMA. So, you know, that's obviously

a great step in the right direction. But yeah, I mean, I don't think they should be in the tour. Although you could say, well, with Kru Nuig and now, you know, he's back with sprinting with these guys, but you know, sprinting the tour are different, that's a different game. Yeah, I mean, I almost think it's, it's further benefit not to be it. It is. And while they, they go to the Jiro. They go to the Jiro. They can do very well. I can prove it there. And also, they're probably

going to do well. Yeah. They're going to, I think they could crush it. Like the Jiro, the TTIA style sprints can suit them really well. I think it's, I think it's a blessing in the skies, not to go to the tour for them for this year. Also, do you know, so the, the team in first and win rankings right now, not it's not a shock. It is UAE with 17 wins. Do you know who is second? And how many wins they have? How many, how many, uh, wins has UAE? 17 wins. 17. I don't think that

counts del Toro, even though technically his national championship wins should count. Who's second? They're not far back. It's called Yeneos, no? It's in AOS. They're two wins. Yeah. Best start in a long time for that team. Oh, that's impressive. That's a great change. I mean, there's been seasons they didn't win that money races. I don't think the last few years ago, I don't think they weren't even close to that many races. It's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Um, yeah. So I'm going to keep an eye. And I thought, I mean, gore and Dorian go down. One of the best quiet pickups you've seen in a long time. That is, that's pretty impressive. Today also Spencer, what we, we did mention, uh, also, we've been hammering on Remko, but the disappointment also got only, you know, he should have it up here. I don't know if

Oh, was he only and, oh, made a. Both. Yeah, I'll make it. He was in the crash. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I guess we know, I don't know. I couldn't tell you if only was definitively in the crash or not. But yeah, he finishes two and a half minutes back, not great. Yeah.

“But it's weird as he's been good earlier this year. That's why I don't fully get about”

what's going on with Oscar on like this week. Another, we, so we have Almeda, and then in like, in Rick Mods, so some of like in Rick Mods, he finishes 13th, 145 back today. Like, yeah, he just totally out of the grand tour podium game at this point because the guys move 100% yeah, but also ending Maas comes back from a big injury. Yeah. He had last year. He had a problem in his leg, like, a, how do you call that like a trombosis? It called, like,

blood clots in the, in the next. He messaged the last time for the season basically. Yeah. And so,

he comes back from far. So let's give him some credit, but anyways, you know,

“and you must as a whole, you could mention for sure in this Palateau, for sure. And that's why”

Uderbrook's is there and M.O.B. Star. He's got something, right? Pretty well, pretty well. Yeah, he did well. He was with Ramcono. He was with, yeah, well, one take it behind. Yeah, basically with Ramcono. Also go back from, you know, a risk fracture, elbow fracture in Valencia, by the way.

Yeah, yeah. And then his first back was Milana Torino, where he was going to leave. He was up there. Yeah, yeah.

Flying lipoids for today, you would not say it's not a bad performance, but that's he's, he's going to have to improve obviously to get in you to get on the podium again with the tour this year. For sure, for sure. You know, like, I have the impression he was a bit, a bit better last year at this point.

“I think he was second or third in Palateau, he was second and very nice, very good. Yeah.”

Yeah, forward the best country. Yeah. But, you know, he's up there. He's up there. You know, steady, steady. You know, so listen, it's going to be extremely difficult for lipoids to repeat that podium, right? But listen, I mean, he's one year stronger, quietly progressing. And he, you know,

he's always there. He's steady. It's going to be hard for him to repeat the podium because

feel of skulls going to be on that podium. The way he's not. He's not because he's not doing the tour. So, that means that shows you, they've, because what's the alternative? Feel of skull goes to the zero. And then they don't send pulse a shot to the tour. That doesn't make any sense. No, no, that isn't. Yeah, the position must have been made. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, yo, how do you have anything else before we go? No, I, um, I need to run Spencer. I have a,

I have a dinner in Madrid. So, uh, it's, you know, late, late Spanish dinner. Yeah, late. These, these dinner times are insane over there. But have, have a good dinner. We'll be back at the end of the weekend for, again, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And final day, uh, final, I guess two days of Catalonia. But thank you for joining us. I'm going to talk to him. Okay, thanks, Spencer. Okay, bye.