268. Going Viral: How To Balance Authenticity and Spectacle

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for your career. We are all part of the creator economy. We're all creators. My name is Matt Abraham's and I teach strategic communication at Stanford Graduate School of Business. Welcome to Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast. Today I look forward to speaking with Angel Kristen. Angel is an

“associate professor of communication in sociology at Stanford University. Along with being a senior”

fellow at Stanford's Human-Centered AI Institute. Her work examines the social impact of algorithms and AI. She's the author of several books with a new book coming out in fall of 2026. Well, welcome Angel. I am thrilled to learn from you today. Thanks for being here. Thank you for inviting me. Yeah, shall we get started? Yes, absolutely. Your research looks at how metrics drive creators towards spectacle and drama.

Can you share some insights and examples of this drama driving and the tension it creates between authenticity and performance? So for me, that's so interesting. Just taking a step back. When you think about media production historically, if you think of print newspapers, book writers, that kind of production, people didn't have any idea about what their audience really wanted.

“Right? They didn't have metrics. They didn't have data and they certainly didn't have the”

kind of fine-grained granular data that creators have today. So now you have this kind of like wave of metrics coming at you and you have a very clear sense of what people are really spending time on. And turns out when you're a creator and when you look at this kind of granular metrics, one thing that you realize very quickly is that viewers, listeners, followers, typically spend more time engaged and are more likely to watch and the content you create is

more likely to go viral when there is some drama by which I kind of realized term can of refers to interpersonal kind of conflict or inflammatory kind of back and forth or kind of comments and response typically with other creators. That's going to be great for you because you can also bring in the audience of the other creator, right? So that kind of conflict or somewhat extreme content. Again, depends on what kind of content you post, but if you push boundary of what you do,

so for example, let's say you're a nutrition influencer and you're going to start proposing or offering like very extreme diets, right? That are really kind of out there in terms of what you can consume, typically that's going to come with like more engagement, right, and higher metrics.

So that's the incentives. Now the problem, though, is that perhaps as a creators, you don't always

want to follow these incentives. And so we go back to the first part of your question, which is how do creators navigate this tension between the one sense, on the one hand, the pressure to create content that can of is more drama heavy or more extreme? And on the other hand, what's their audience originally really liked them for, which was their relatability, their authenticity, their very unique editorial line. And so that kind of back and forth between

kind of drama and extreme content on the one hand and relatability and authenticity on the other, is something that every single creator is struggling with. You can think about it as a trade-off between the short term and the long term, right? So in the short term, if you optimize for kind of

in the number of views and the kind of virality of your content. But then perhaps in the long term, or the middle term, some of your loyal followers and subscribers are going to be like, "I don't really recognize persons, the creators, the tones, the voice that I use to love." And so perhaps I'm not going to come back. And every single creator I took to over the past six years experiences some version of the tension. But at the end of the days, they have to pay the bills,

“right? They have to pay the rent. And so many of them, where does they want it or not?”

End up at some point prioritizing drama or extreme content? So the algorithm and the way in which creators get rewarded financially and with followers, etc, is to be more dramatic, even though, in some cases, can pull them away from their authentic original purpose. Let's take a step back from creators influencers. And let's just talk about professionals in general. I mean, having a social media presence is important. It's how we define to the broader world, who we are,

what we do, he could set us up for other positions, can provide other opportunities to us. Do you have advice in guidance on how everyday professionals can navigate the pressure to build a credible online reputation while not falling victim to this drama? This is such an important point. And actually, this is where in my book, I can't have end, which is that really we're all content creators now, not only when doing a podcast, but just even that just as workers are, every day

human beings, we're just all putting content out there and creating a public persona that then plays an increasingly important role in hiring, promotions, and, of course, getting laid off and fired for things that may or may not have could see attention of your employers. As the dynamics of social media creations really come for the rest of us, what are some of the key aspects that, you know, I think we can translate from influencers and content creators to everyday social media

users. I think the first one is that you really have to build on your real expertise.

And that is something that cannot be fake, you know, in order for your audience to trust you,

“you have to come up with a kind of core competency, a core real, and a specific kind of”

angle on this career that is specifically yours, right? Now, it may seem easy, but as anyone who's done kind of a bit of strategy or a bit of thinking, kind of, reflectively about what is my core real expertise, it's really not an easy process, and I think that for a lot of people as a negotiator can have social media presence, it's very much back and forth, right? Between, I told it was this, but perhaps it's not, and kind of, it's cool, constructed with the

audience in many ways. But I would say that's a first thing, figuring out what's the real, what's

the topic, what's the angles that you feel comfortable and an expert on, and really pushing that on social media. My second take is again, that when it comes to drama and extreme content, these are extremely problematic things to engage in. When you look at content creators and having spent six years talking with them and interviewing them, following them, and seeing how they work, say, over time, develop a very six skin for getting harassed, bullied, insulted,

own social media, an extremely painful process for many of them. I will add, especially for any kind of marginalized identity, you're just much more likely to get harassed online. It comes with a lot of distress, a lot of anxiety, a lot of fear. And so, I think that for people who may not want to go on that specific emotional journey of developing that extremely six skin, when it comes to

kind of social media presence, my second recommendation is always be aware that anything you post online

is likely to be seen by your coworkers, your employers, or future clients, customers, employers, et cetera. And just trying to keep that in mind, especially when you're on your phone, perhaps late at night, and being like, oh, I'm going to weigh in. I haven't answered already for this, and just thinking that social media is not only that anymore, I mean, increasingly, as we spend more and more time online, this is basically your professional window, when your professional facade

“for potential employers. I think that last point is really important. How you show up on social”

media is how people see you, and you have to manage that and navigate through that very carefully. I like your suggestion to lean into your expertise and to be forewarned that when you put your thoughts and self out there, that there will be people who will comment on that. Now, that commenting can be hurtful, painful, and upsetting at times. You have a unique perspective, and you've mentioned this

you conduct ethnographic research that results in people telling you their stories, and then you in turn tell their stories to others. But you also look at how stories help build an online presence and creators and influencers. So you're looking at storytelling and using storytelling. So given your different perspectives on it, I'm curious, do you have any guidance on what goes into crafting a good story? That is such a good question. So it depends really on what you mean by

“a good story, right? And what's the purpose of the story? And that's where I think I distinguish”

between in academia. You are using stories, but it's always stories at the service of, in my case,

I'm a sociologist by training, a broader kind of argument about how the social world functions, right? And so in my research, I really take these individual stories. I try to understand how people see the world. And then I build on that to identify what styles of structural forces that shaped house specific constraints and difficulties that they encounter come into being. And so you know, in the case of social media influencers, for example, all social media creators see themselves as

fearless entrepreneurs. The rhetoric of entrepreneurship is very strong for them, which makes a lot of sense. And often, they come to social media creation because they're dissatisfied with nine to five

jobs to put it bluntly, right? So it's a strong dissatisfaction with kind of modern corporate employment,

as a way of making a living. What's interesting, though, and this connects to the story saying, is that at the end of the day, yes, there are entrepreneurs in one sense, but really there work for social media platforms. Social media platforms are the one owning the means of distribution of their content. And that's some things that a lot of creators can have a lot of trouble grappling with, right? And so in my case, I'm like, okay, so let's take these individual

stories and then connect that to the broader patterns of who owns what? And who is truly making money

“from what? And when I think of how creators themselves tell stories, I mean, typically it's”

going to be stories that inspire, right? And so that's a different purpose, I think, in what's a role of a story. And again, they're like part of the dynamic is creating connection with the audience, right? By providing some sense of vulnerability, by sharing one's experience, by showing how you overcome difficulties, by showing that you're relatable, that you're authentic, that you're putting yourself out there and then building on that experience to claim

expertise, a specific type of expertise that can be called confessional, in a way, right? When you build on your own difficulties, your own kind of hard times to show how you overcome that, and encourage your followers to do the same thing. Well, it seems to me that from the academic sense, you're using stories as data that you can then extrapolate patterns and connections. The stories that the people you study are using are stories about connection, about being vulnerable.

At the end of the day, though, in both cases, there's a purpose behind the story, the story serves a purpose. The story does serve to connect, in some cases, academic ideas together, in other cases, audiences together. But you really need to understand your audience in the purpose, and then you need to be able to take that content and articulate it in a way that motivates the audience you're speaking to and elucidates what it is you're looking for. I think a great way of putting

this would be to say that story is really our bridges. But the question is, like, their bridges

from what to what? Exactly right. So story service bridges to fulfill a purpose. I have always

been fascinated by ethnographic research. I've never done it myself. I've always been much more of a traditionalist in the research I do, but I really like the richness in the insight that ethnographies bring, and I've always appreciated that line of research. If you were to give somebody advice today, who wanted to become a creator or wanted to enter into this economy,

“what would you advise? What would be the things that you would say you should consider and do?”

I would say a couple of things. First, I would say that the reality of social media labor is much harder than what some of the curated images or curated accounts that leading social media celebrities provide. It's a hard job. It's a job where you're alone. They have their day shooting and reshooting content where your employer or your primary interlocutor is the algorithm of social media companies, and it's a hard boss to please as many influencers can testify. It's changing

those times. The formats are changing those times. The preferences of audiences are changing those times, so you have to be extremely nimble. With that in mind, what would be my concrete

better typically work across platforms. And so trying to have different income streams so that you're not directly weathered and only weathered to one platform that could go under or could completely

“change. It's algorithms up its content moderation guidelines. I think it's a really important”

part of the game. So just spreading your kind of portfolio and your content across different platforms, including newsletters, blog posts, websites, just really trying to have as large a footprint as you

can. So that would be my first thing. My second recommendation is that again, it's complicated to only

be dependent on platform payments. Because you are going to be incentivized to engage in more drama or more extreme content. So that's not great when it's the only way in which you make money. What works better in my experience is again, people who have different revenue streams. So you do yes, some platform payments, but also some sponsored content where you work with brands and your transparent and selective in the brand you work out with so that it matches the identity of your

production. And again, you do that, but not too much either because if you do too much sponsored content and suddenly you look like you're inauthentic and you're shielding false brands. This idea of expectations setting for yourself and the expectations of the work that's required. Not a week goes by where people don't come to me and say, hey, I'd love to start a podcast related to what you do is so great. And then when I explain the amount of work and the detail

and the issues people have. It sounds like a lot more than I was signing up for. And this idea of diversity of ways that you do your job and how you get paid because at the end of the day for many people that the creator economy is the way they get their work done.

We'll be right back to finish our conversation. But first, we're going to take a quick break

for a word from our sponsors. Their support covers the cost of production so we can bring you this show for free. This episode of Think Fast Talksmart is brought to you by SquareSpace. You know, I talk a lot on this show about communication and increasingly, part of that is having a place online where ideas, your work and your voice can really live. But getting something like that started can feel like a big lift. That's one reason I appreciate SquareSpace.

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two have been asking for a long time. Are you up for that? Yeah, for sure. Excellent. Beyond all the work you do that we've discussed, you work for Stanford's Human-Centered AI Institute. What is one thing going on there that has you really excited? Narrative AI is everywhere. There is a lot of hype. There is also a lot of fear. There are many emotions surrounding generative AI and what is going to mean for all of us in the coming years and

decades. I am starting a new project on the emotions surrounding generative AI. So hopes, fear, hate, disappointment, all the emotions positive, negative, setar shaping how humans are interacting

with AI. And Stanford's AI Institute has been such an amazing place to really have this

kind of in-depth discussions with computer scientists, engineers, scientists, and policy experts in trying to tease out what are some of the ramifications of these technological developments that are happening as we speak. There's so much talk about the information that's part of these AI LLMs. Not a lot have I heard about the emotion piece. So I really look forward to that research

“that you're conducting. Question number two, who is a communicator that you admire and why?”

I think Greta Turnberg, just because I think as a question of global warming and sustainability is a really hard one to get for the new cycle and for the news media in general, just because there is no big event. Except when there is a heat wave, but otherwise it's just this long kind of unfolding process that's happening over hundreds of years. So it's really hard to

of ways, but just really to crystallize or kind of collective attention around how pressing the question of global warming is. And so that's something that I find really impressive.

“The ability to keep constant attention on an important issue when there isn't some big event”

absolutely. Final question, what are the first three ingredients that go into a successful

communication recipe? Storytelling, clear deliverables. And I will add, because at the end of the day I am an academic rigor, being careful and thorough in how you links the different steps together and not other state-ping or making conclusions that really do not make sense given to data you have.

I wouldn't expect nothing less from you if somebody who uses ethnography as a means to do the

work you do. So story, making sure that story is rigorous in the deliverables are clearly defined. Well, thank you for the insight and input you gave regarding creators. We are all creators

“in some way shape or form and the issues that you bring up are important for all of us to think”

about in terms of how much we want to open ourselves up for the tension between authenticity

and the algorithms really provocative and informative. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for joining us for another episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast. To learn more about the impact of social media algorithms and AI on your communication,

“listen to episode 225 with Adam Alexa. This episode was produced by Katherine Reed,”

Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abraham's. Our music is from Floyd Wonder, with thanks to podium podcast company. Please find us on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. Be sure to subscribe and rate us. Also follow us on LinkedIn and Instagram and TikTok. Check out fastersmartor.io for deep dive videos, English language learning content, and our newsletter. Please consider our premium offering for extended deep thanks episodes,

amaze, ask Matt anythings, and much more at fastersmartor.io/premium. Before we wrap up, I just want to say thank you for listening. It really means a lot to hear how people all over the world are using these ideas in their own lives. It inspires me and the whole team that brings you this show. If you want more episodes and resources, feel free to follow subscribe and explore past conversations. We're grateful for your support of ThinkFast TalkSmart.