#682 - Bishop Robert Barron

He's one of the leading voices in the Catholic faith today.

He started word on fire ministries and he's written many books on theology. I'm so excited to sit down and have a conversation with Bishop Robert Barron. [Music] Bishop Robert Barron, nice to see you. Thank you. Great to be here. Yeah, thank you so much for your time today.

I'm delighted. You live in Minnesota. I do. Right. And you're a Catholic Bishop from there. Right. So I'm the Bishop of the Diocese of Winona Rochester, which is a southern part of Minnesota. And I live in Rochester right near the Mayo Clinic. I'm like five minutes away from there. Oh, nice. You probably get to take a lot of visits to like visit with children and their families and stuff like that.

Yeah. I visit a lot of, you know, sick people there. And so it's, you know,

probably the leading hospital in the world and people come from all over the place there.

Oh, and you're right there, thing. I'm right there.

“You should start a drive through, even. That'd be nice. Yeah.”

Just bless out the window. Maybe I don't know. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. Okay. That's one bad idea for me. You started word on fire ministries. It's a media ministry. So it's an evangelical ministry to proclaim, you know, the Catholic faith. And I started just with a sermon show on the radio in Chicago 25 years ago.

And it's grown now, you know, we use all kinds of things, publishing and podcasting and films now. And, you know, so it's just been, been blessed, thank God. And how does somebody become a bishop? Well, you got to be chosen by the pope. So you really got nothing to do with it. I was the rector of the seminary in Chicago. So I was head of the seminary, right? And then one day out of the blue, you got a phone call.

And it came from this guy we call the epistolic nuncio, who's like the Vatican ambassador to the US. And he says, the pope has appointed you a auxiliary bishop of Los Angeles.

Those are my first bishop appointment. So that's like the NFL draft almost for,

is it kind of like that energy, like you're like waiting for this thing? No, because you know, you're not waiting at all. You have no idea it's coming. That it was the Sunday afternoon. And I'm lying on the couch watching golf. I have my shorts on a t-shirt and the phone rings. And it's this little Italian voice saying, the Holy Father's appointed you.

And then he says, do you accept that you think it was a scam or something? No, because I recognize, you know, his name and everything. I don't get to say you knew. So you know, but you have no idea it's coming. Because if you're under consideration, no one tells you it's not like, you know, oh, I'm, I might get it. You have zero idea. And so just like that out of the blue,

and that we're thinking about a point of view is he's already appointed you. Now, you can say, no, you can say, look, I'm not going to do it.

“But unless you got like a super good reason, you have to say yes to it.”

And then, you know, uproot your entire life, move away from everyone you know, I moved to LA, Arts and I see lives in Santa Barbara, which is pretty good. You know, but I had zero idea. And then four years later, or what five years later, another phone call comes. Holy Father's appointed you a bishop of a Winona Rochester, Minnesota. So off you go.

So when the call comes, it's kind of like a call from God, kind of coming, and you go and take it. Yes. And for years, I used to preach to people, you know, your life's not about you. It's about God, but God wants unless you've got a really good reason you follow God's will. So how could I then stand say, no, I'm really happy where I am and tell the Pope to forget it. So you kind of have to say yes. Yeah. Wow, that's a big surprise in somebody's life.

Did you have a job before you were a bishop? Like, I did you just work at somewhere regular like, well, when I was a kid, like when I was 16, I worked at a bookstore. I was like a stockboy in the bookstore. I worked at Stake and Shake for a while. Is this just washer? Oh, dude. Yeah, but then I went to college, you know, and then entered the seminary and then did those studies and became a priest when I was about 26.

So I didn't have a big career, you know, before we became a priest.

“Yeah. What was the worst thing you didn't like about dishwasher? Oh, I hated this one.”

Did you? The heat. And the, you know, I thought it was the most of Max's job I had. I didn't last for a while, I quit after a few months. Oh, damn. I hated it. Yeah. I liked the bookstore job. That was, I was 16 and I was like, you know, stockboy and I was putting books on shelves. Yeah. I didn't mind that job. Yeah, I worked at a bookstore and when I went to college for a little while, I enjoyed it too. Yeah. It's kind of peaceful in there and somebody comes over.

Sometimes people are just hiding from their spouse or whatever in there, but sometimes people are looking for a book. Oh, yeah. And you get to help them. And you just kind of start to learn and inadvertently. Well, I'll tell you now. I discovered a book in that job called The Seven Story Mountain by guy named Thomas Merton. Seven Story Mountain. The Seven Story Mountain, which had a big impact on me. Merton was this guy very talented, very complex. There's a New York one. It'd be a writer,

a new all these famous people, and then walks through a short. He becomes a Catholic and then wants to become a trappist monk, which is about a serious monk, because he can become living in silence and prayer. And the book is, is the story of his conversion. The Seven Story Mountain.

in Bangkok, Thailand. He was there for a conference. And he was elected. He was elected. He was elected.

He was elected. Yeah. He was, he gave a speech. When back to his, he was like staying this sort of like bungalow thing. And they found him with the standing fan lying on top of him.

“He had grabbed it and it had a short or something. And it killed him. That's how Merton died,”

which is very ironic and strange. But he was a wonderful figure. And that book right there had a big impact on me when I was a kid. What about it? It's a story of a guy falling in love with God. And so he discovers God. And then it's none of his instincts move that way. He wanted to be a writer. He wanted to be kind of a cool, you know, man of the world. And then he starts gradually falling in love with God. And it's told in almost like this romantic way. He was a poet,

very fine poet actually. And the book, and I was 16 at the time. And so it can't get caught up in all that. And it's a very human story. And it's beautifully told too. So, that impacted me a lot of time when I was about 16. Yeah, I've heard you talk about Thomas Erwin before and some of your different podcasts and different lectures. Well, he was one of the great spiritual writers of the last century. So if you want to know how to pray, how to approach prayer, what prayer is, how to live the spiritual life. He's a guy that you turn to.

To get a little bit towards Catholicism. So Catholicism is a branch of Christianity. What's the difference of like being a catholic and being a Christian? Well, I mean, of course, the Catholic is a Christian. So you're, you know, a follower of Jesus Christ. We would maintain that the Catholic church is the true church. It's founded by Jesus Christ. You get to the reformation and the people that, you know, we're quarreling with different aspects of Catholicism and broke off from us. So Lutherans and Calvinists and all the various sub branches thereof. Well, I mean, of course, the Catholic is a Christian. So you're, you know, a follower of Jesus Christ.

We would maintain that the Catholic church is the true church is founded by Jesus Christ. You get to the reformation and the people that, you know, we're quarreling with different aspects of Catholicism and broke off from us. So Lutherans and Calvinists and all the various sub branches thereof. But you know, we'd maintain that the Catholic church has all the gifts that Christ wants us people to have that it's the fullness of what Christ wanted. But then we're recognizing that the Protestant churches, of course, have all kinds of gifts that Christ wants to, but the Catholic church we would maintain obviously has the fullness of it.

Understand how would you define God? Well, probably the simplest way say God is the creator of all things. Okay. So there's the world of things, right? The world we're in all the time. You and me in this place and we go outside the world of ordinary things and evenly the planet Jupiter and the far galaxies of the world of things. But they don't explain themselves, right? Nothing in the world explains itself. It is, but doesn't have to be. So we look for causes. That's all of science, right? It looks for what cause this to be here. Why are you and I here right now? We can look for all kinds of reasons.

How about those things? Do they have to be there? Well, no, they were caused by other things. Then we say, "Well, God is the uncaused cause. God is the first mover. God is the reason why there's anything at all." So it's cool about that is God is not a thing in the world. There's you and me in the planet Jupiter and God in the Empire State Building. No, no, that's the wrong way to think about it, right? God is the reason why there's anything at all.

“So you might say he's the creator of all things to put it in religious language. He's the ground of being philosophers might say, right?”

And I would say like the reason why there's something rather than nothing. That's God. Interesting. That's the cool question that philosophers have asked. And some people just find it nonsensical.

I would say it's the most important question of all. Why is there something rather than nothing? The answer to that question is God, I would say.

How does God operate? Because you'll hear people will say stuff like, "Well, that's part of God's plan," right? But then if something horrible happens, then they're like, "Well, God can help you through this." Right? Like does he cause bad things to happen? Or does he just there for us if something no matter what happens? So he's the cause of all things, right? So God is responsible for all that exists in the world. You see what about evil? Well, evil is not a thing. Evil is a lack of being.

“You remember in the Lord of the Rings? I don't know if you had a Lord of the Rings guy, but remember the Nazgale of these things that fly around on these dragons?”

And they look so fearsome, but when they finally like they stab at them, the coke falls away and there's nothing there.

That was Tolkien's way of saying this truth that evil is frightening, but essentially it's a type of non-being. It's a lack of a good that ought to be there, like a cavity of truth. So the cavity is at minutes, real, and it hurts, but the cavity itself is just an emptiness, right? Evil is like that. Physical evil or moral evil. Moral evil is a lack of an integrity that ought to be there in your soul. So in that way, you can't say God's a cause of evil, because God is the cause of all being, right?

And God's great answer to Job when he's going to say, "Why am I suffering? Why is all this happening to me?"

“And God says, "Where were you when I made the heavens and the earth and where were you when I laid the foundations of the world and where were you? You know everything. You tell me."”

In other words, why God permits suffering? We can't really see. Sometimes we can in little ways, right? We say, "Gosh, if that hadn't happened to me, you know." Sometimes we can see it, but very often you can't, but that shouldn't surprise us, right? If God who's the source of all existence, who's concerned about all of space and all of time, he's got a design for that. But I can't see it. Well, of course, duh. Of course, I can't understand all of it. But I accept that God permits evil to bring about some greater good. That's the classical answer to that question.

But it's a cool, you're pursuing it the right way, see, which is, God is not the cause of evil. But he permits evil to allow for some greater good. I see. So you believe that in the end, it all ends good. In the end, it ends according to God's design, and God is love, right? And so to love us to will to go to the other.

“And so that's what God wants. God wants the go to the other.”

But how precisely it works out, I don't really know. But, you know, same Paul, all things work together for the good for those who love the Lord. That's it. That's the right sort of theological vision. How do I best start my relationship with God? Would you suggest to somebody who's like,

maybe has felt God that feels like God exists in the world? I mean, I felt that, for sure, I've always thought that God existed.

But, only recently, if I started to feel more of a relationship, how do you suggest that someone starts to kind of begin their relationship with God? You know, it's Thomas Merton said someone asked him that question. He said, "Take the time." In other words, dedicate some time every day to God. So I begin every day with what he call Holy Hour, which is made popular by the way by this fellow of Fulton Sheen, is that name ring a bell? name ring a bell. Fulton Shane bring him up. Bring him up. Bring him up because we're about to be

out of fight him. He just in a few days in fact really. That's the latter is that's the last step before canonization become a saint right. So Fulton Shane was this great mid 20th century figure

a teacher writer. He was one of the first to use radio and TV. Oh, it's be out of home. So we're

be out of fighting him just in a few weeks. It was be out of fighting me just so we know. Well, it's the last step before canonization which is Sainthood but like biotus and Latin means happy. Okay. So like you know we say the beatific vision that's heaven. It means happiness that when I look at this thing, it makes me happy. Okay. That's heaven. The beatific vision. So a biotus would be a happy person right because he's so ordered to go. So he had it did he have to work really hard to be happy probably?

He was he was a pretty happy guy. She like like by temperament he was to a little insider trading kind of. Right. Yeah. But what he gave us which I really love is he called the holy hour which is every day it's Catholic spend an hour in front of the Blessed Sacrament. So you know we believe in

“the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. And so every morning that's what I do I go to my”

chapel in my house and I pray for an hour and it could be like we have a thing called the office that a priest has to pray. It's it's Psalms and canicles and things from the Bible and readings and stuff. But you can also pray the rosary which I do you can also just sit in silence. There's this one saint there's what what do you do when you're looking at the Blessed Sacrament and he said I look at him and he looks at me and that's pretty good that you sit in silence you know

in a meditative state. It's almost like right. It's meditative. Right. And so we call that mental prayer sometimes in the Catholic tradition. But I would recommend that is take and it might not be an hour maybe have to build up to that but even take five minutes to focus on the Lord. Now it might be you're going to read something from the scripture which is great. It might be if you're Catholic you pray the rosary or pray a decade of the rosary that just kind of focuses your mind.

You know the the Buddhists have this thing the monkey mind they talk about the monkey mind if jumping around the branch to branch. Well that's the way most of us live or like you wake up at three o'clock in the morning and your monkey mind is kicked in and you're thinking about and they talk about calming the monkey mind right. Merton in fact who was understood Buddhist very well thought prayers like the rosary have that effect you know because all you do you repeat the

you know hell Mary full of grace, the rosary with the blessed heart the hell Mary full of grace, rosary with the hell Mary mantra it's a Catholic mantra and what that does many things but but it

you or anybody take the time and find a way to get you know focused on the Lord that's a good

starting place and how honest you have to be with God we'll see the thing is with God God knows everything anyway because he's the source of existence so you're not being honest if you're being secret if he already what's the point and that's what I mean is but it feels like there's some point to us you know what I'm saying like it feels like or there's a fear to do it or something but see it's stupid it's a stupid thing because because God knows everything already so what are

you keeping from or if you feel like I can just say these very kind of exalted pious things to God look at the Bible look at the Psalms for example Psalms are filled with people angry at God and they're they're exulting they're praising God they're they're frustrated they're tearing their hair out

“oh yeah it's PG-13 over there for sure that's how you should pray so why not be honest with God”

about about everything about your sins he knows them anyway so I think praying with honesty is

super important but a lot of religious people we kind of deceive ourselves and think well okay I won't mention that to God's words to be okay but then when you're keeping a seat when you have a secret though that's where like it feels like um like the devil can get in you know when you have kind of like a seat of distrust he's the father of lies right is he yes that's one of the titles but the heck I didn't even know that yeah and that's and that's actually a really good

interesting to he's the murderer from the beginning but he's also the father of lies oh murder from the beginning is way worse I think but definitely that's definitely additional charges because he when Jesus says I am the way the truth and the life yeah see when you get on beam with him you're on beam with what's truest about you but also about all of reality the devil's favorite move therefore is to lie deceive uh distract oh that's not really true and how often

when we're not in touch with reality we get so unhappy and that's not an accident so getting someone on the beam of truth is getting them on the beam of Christ I would say because he announced himself as the truth yes sometimes I'll pray it and it's like I would want to keep things now I'm trying to be very specific you know like I just because I don't want it anymore I don't want to not have I want I don't want something to be like just mine if that makes any sense especially

what's both uh if it's bad yeah like if I feel like it's bad yeah or it's like a sand or something I've done that's wrong or something I've been thinking about or something I'm afraid of it's like I don't want to just keep it to myself because I can't handle it yes and look see if a Catholic standpoint uh the beauty of confession that we have this sacrament you know Jordan Peterson's at the one time uh to go before a representative of God to admit your failure and your weakness

and your sin and to seek the grace of God to do better he said I can't imagine anything psychologically healthier than that wow and he's he was talking about Catholic confession you know because it gets portrayed times like oh this you know weird thing you go into this box and you're it's you know butter your sins to a priest yeah well that's a caricature it's standing before the Lord if someone who represents him because we're not angels you know I mean we

“abodies with that's why the sacraments are physical and why you you actually speak to somebody”

but you're he's a representative of God in that way and you're telling God the priest let's say if you go into confession okay and you go to the priest and you confess your sins you're speaking to God really and saying Lord I want to be honest with you this is what's wrong with me right now I'm not okay I'm not doing well and here's why and then you seek the grace of

God that's beautiful because he the father of lies would love it if we just never admit that oh

I'm fine I'm okay you're okay we're all doing great you know yeah don't tell me I've done anything wrong that's all the why and in confession that's the beauty of it I'm admitting how how off-kilter I am you know and then I'm asking for grace that's a beautiful thing there's confession yeah that's pretty cool yeah we know the way most Catholics now go to confession would be going to face to face I mean just sit down with the priest like the way we are oh really you can

still go behind the screen and all that's up to the individual when I first started going to confess as a kid it would have been you know behind the screens like yeah but you could have this kind of direct conversation too how how is God showing grace in your life do you feel like personally if you don't mind if I ask when I mean like well so we can even talk about it because

“I think about it a lot you know like there's nothing for when I think about that there's nothing”

there's nothing like that's one of the strongest thoughts that I have sometimes is just how much grace God shown great I'm a big Bob Dylan guy I don't know if you know that but I love Bob Dylan during his Christian period he's had the song I look around this whole world and all that I'm finding is the saving grace that's over me and that's the way religious people in their more

my being because I don't have to exist there's nothing necessary about me so the fact that I am

and that I'm alive that's a grace now he can start to name within that all kinds of particular things he's sorry was this morning it's our own existence is is a grace yes because you don't have to be right so God God God is perfectly happy without the world that's a very important theological truth God does not need the world he does not need anything outside of himself god he's got yes because God is perfect God is the sheer active existence God is perfect in every way

so then he must have created it with a purpose then and the only purpose that we can identify is not a needy purpose but God needs nothing therefore whatever he does is done out of purest love because Thomas Aquinas along with Bob Dylan my other great hero Thomas Aquinas has great medieval field origin right he says that to love is to will the good of the other and we think about that that's a really rare weird thing so let me say it again to love is to will the good of the other as

other like it to wait to will the good of the other as other yeah and I'm kind of intensifying it

“to make the point okay so let's say I'm nice to you that you might be nice to me so that's what”

the most of us sinners operate so I'll be you know kind to you as long as you're kind to me the minute you get I'm not just to me I'm gonna be of not just you that's the way most of us operate most of time because we're doing it out of some kind of need I'm not really willing you are good now love right you're hoping that some that right explained get something good will come out of it that I'll get something for me it'll redown to my benefit okay but see and it's beautiful when

it has and it does happen in the world when a parent or a you know a spouse or whoever right they have to love you because they just want you to be okay they've just want your good or think of

you know in a Catholic setting we always go to the the martyrs I don't know if you know the same

maximally in Colby you know that right Rebell oh he is a great saint during the the Nazi period he was a prisoner Auschwitz right and he was a opponent of Hitler so Hitler arrested him he's a Franciscan fryer there he is and he's got his the Auschwitz scar by there because the Nazi set of things were so in a scape from the barracks they'd bring everybody out into the yard and they would pick ten at random and then starve them to death it was like this horrible

thing just if someone escaped right has a payment right so someone escaped from his barracks and they brought the people out and they they picked out ten he was not one of them but this one man fell to his knees and started crying and he said I'm a husband I'm a father you know please so Colby stepped out of line and he just said I'm a Catholic priest take me in his place and Colby barely knew this guy and he's been in the barracks for them I guess but barely

knew him and so they started from the death wow and it was John Paul the second who knew that story

from the time in Poland and kind of brought it to the attention of the world but now that's love see the willing the good of the other what was in it for him what was in it for Colby yeah and so see it's like unbelievable it's like a black hole you know black hole will draw

“everything into itself right that's what most of our our souls are like we want to draw the”

world in love is breaking the the breaking the grab gravitational pull of the black hole of the ego and saying I really want what's good for you and in it while we say see God is love that's what God is because he doesn't need anything yeah he can't do anything out of self interest so my existence are being in this room is itself an expression of love it has to be so then the trick is as you get closer to God you become more conform to that which is why the saints are so weird

that's why the saints are so weird to us because they're not operating in this ordinary sphere so we talk about like supernatural virtue that's Colby that's all the saints they have supernatural because they're very close to the way God is so the greatest thing we can do is try to love in a completely like selfless way right and it's it's not easy and that's why I see it requires prayer I can't really will myself into that state I have to be open to God's grace transforming

“me and prayer helps that yes it might say it's the only way because like the you know Aristotle”

or Plato would have said these virtues like you know courage and prudence and justice you can kind of practice your way to them okay but the theological virtues faith-open love see that that's that's why they're theological that I can't really practice my way I can just say Lord make me like this bring me into line with your way of being and sort of it's kind of a

I'll and I don't even think that I want to like someone's I'll want something but I won't want

“to do it yeah does that make any sense to you but good that I would do it's that that I don't do”

yeah also that Roman seven right so yeah my brother was saying that I should ask for the willingness to do it sometimes yeah like sometimes it's like a little bit of like a um crack in the door like if I can't like if I don't have the power to do it myself maybe some of that I can pray just to ask God for willingness like God even just making me willing to try this me maybe the whole he spares kind of let us to hurt in that way because one of Thomas Merton's famous prayers begins

my Lord God I have no idea where I'm going it's a great way to start a prayer like I I don't know

but one of the things in there is um and the fact that I think I'm doing a will doesn't mean I'm actually

doing so but I believe the desire to please you does in fact please you and Ben I have that desire in all that I do that's a cool prayer see he's lost I don't know where I'm going and I don't even know if I'm doing your will but the desire to please you in fact please as you so let me have that anyway man that's a good way to pray you know I'll be honest to that in the past I was hesitant to invest I felt like I didn't know enough or or maybe I was I was too late I wasn't timing things right

“the truth is that so many of us only focus on where our money is today”

acorns is the financial wellness app that cares about where your money is going tomorrow acorns is a smart way to give your money a chance to grow it's easy you can sign up in minutes and start automatically investing your spare money even if all you've got is spare change sign up now

and join over 14 million people already investing with acorns new customers get a $20 bonus investment

just for signing up takes about two minutes and it could be the quickest $20 you'll ever earn head to acorns dot com slash theo that's aco rns dot com slash THEO to claim your $20 bonus today acorns dot com slash theo limited time offer terms and conditions apply see acorns dot com slash terms for details yeah it's funny we're at a time where like you were talking about like are you just mentioned loss like being actually kind of lost and and what are prayer to say that

yeah i'm lost like god i am lost right like to give to allow possibility in your life because if you're lost and you need something right um you just mentioned being kind of lost right it's interesting that we're in a time where we have so many things that help us have like direction right like we have GPS we have like map quest we have ways we have everything you could need to help us like direct we have all this technology we have so many things right we have so much like

material we have so much like we have storage facilities people are storing addicts are full right right people are some people have two or three purses some women and some men but what i'm saying is we have so much stuff but yet like it feels like we're at a spot where uh we're missing something that we just can't purchase anymore right when it comes to this and making any sense you know it says to you like we're missing something that's like a not on a shelf somewhere right

“which is why we're casting about so desperately and what it feels desperate that's what it's got”

to it's starting to feel desperate and i think somebody has to do it like a sense of purpose maybe yes i'm not sure no yeah because we've lost the sense of like ultimate purpose or spiritual purpose and so when you lose that the Bible would describe that as being an exile you wanted to the desert you're away from the sources of life saying Augustin said you're in the land of dissimilar to because we're made in the lightness of God right but i've wandered into the land where

i'm not like on and so yeah it's a Costco i'm in Costco and so i'm just sort of lost and uh so the idea is when Jesus says i am the way um follow me uh i'm the way you get your bearings i give these uh sermons a lot to kids and uh for confirmation as a bishop you confirm these like teenagers you know so i give this sermon i use the example of ways a lot and you know i trust in ways i got this the voice i got this little kind of English voice on mine and

this little calm guy just tells me you know where to go where to turn and i kind of surrender to him because yeah i'm driving all over the place i don't know where i'm going i was better when i was a kid i knew better where i was going yeah now but i just kind of trust in the voice of ways and i said but that's like the voice of your conscience the voice of God that we have to learn

in great preaching in someone like Martin or Fulton Sheen or there are lots of ways to find

your direction and then see Jesus says about all of us Christians you're at the light of the world you're the city on the hill see the city on the hill was like a GPS if you're in ancient times you're wondering oh the city oh yeah i got to go just you know kind of just west of that city so it was the way i i found my direction well that's us we're supposed to be that now for other people that we followers of Jesus are meant to be a signal to the rest of the world but if we're as

lost as they are that and the Lord says if salt is lost it's saver you know who's and you don't put

“a light under a bushel basket but that's what a lot of us have done we're as lost as everybody else”

sometimes it also feels like bishop that it's being organized that way by like darker entities in society do you feel like that could be true that like evil operates like that because it really feels like that more than ever i think yes the Bible knows about personal sin right so there's individuals you and i were sinners i'm lost i'm a sinner but it also knows about you know kind of structural institutional sin but then behind all of that it knows about i would say it properly

spiritual dimension that there's a spiritual world that's also fallen and that compromises the institutional and the personal level there's all those dimensions of evil i think we get

not even away but we always just personally was just something that we sinners do yeah that's true

but behind us our institutions that condition us and behind them there are fallen spiritual powers i would say and we got to deal with all of them we got to you know paul says you know we battle not just with flesh and blood but powers and principalities that's still true it seems to me did christianity ever have like a military or was that even a thing or there are military orders like around the time of the you know crusades stuff like the night's templar and they were like religious

orders that had kind of a military dimension you know because they were trying to defend the holy land and all that but we tend to do that today yeah you have the nights of malto there's certain things it kind of a holdover from that time but we're not like going around with you know machine guns as well got it there's the night's templar the night's temple were wealthy oh that's varsity too

look at them the night's temple were a wealthier were a wealthy and powerful Catholic military order

of warrior monks founded in 1118 during the crusades the mission formed to protect christian programmers traveling to Jerusalem and sacred sites from violent attacks while so when christians traveled to go to Jerusalem the night's templar would kind of escort them or make sure that they got their safely that was the idea yeah why were they attacked so much oh it's a complicated story there was some you know the charges of corruption financial corruption and other things it's a little bit

murky and I don't know the history all that well but they were eventually suppressed you know but it's like most human things end up going bad yeah yeah and there was some kind of corruption said

“in there but I think at its best it was doing a very valuable thing yeah most human things kind of”

end up going bad in some ways do you think like sometimes I get stuck in this space where it's like like I want like you know I want to go to heaven I want to have like happiness after like I want to earn the possibility to I don't know if it's earned as the right word but I want to have the opportunity to have a life past this past this one here but also part of me wants this like you want to win in this world as well does it make any sense it's like it's like you want to see like

humanity win right but does that really even matter if the goal is to is to have an eternal life and to is earned the right word no I wouldn't use earned but it's a both am see but it makes sense when I'm asking yeah yeah but it's like I don't want to I don't want to lose here on earth you know that is a person but it says to species or it's like we're as it's even as like America or as like good good verse evil it's like I don't want good to lose here

on earth you know you want to try and serve as that as well as you can but it seems like the

“most the more important thing is this is this greater yes good that comes with salvation as I”

make sense yes and and they're both true see contrast crisp biblical religion with let's say Plato and go to Plato these these other figures that felt the body this natural world was kind of a fallen world it was low level the idea was to escape from it so Plato says the whole point of philosophy is like a prison break to get out of the prison of the body that's not the Bible the Bible

crawl upon the earth and all that and he finds it good and he finds the ensemble of it very good

that's a radical thing though in the Bible see because so many dualistic systems would say like spirit good man or bad heaven good earth bad get out of earth to get to heaven that's not the Bible the Bible affirms the earth it affirms the human project right and then it doesn't want so much escape from the earth it wants a new heavens and a new earth that's a different game see God doesn't give up on what he's made he wants to lift it up and transfigure it and bring it

to a higher pitch or like you know Jesus may your will be done on earth as in heavens he wants to bring heaven and earth together that's the goal and see we believe in the resurrection of Jesus

from the dead it doesn't mean oh yeah Jesus died and his soul when God went up to heaven that's

not at all hey he walked in the room and and he ate in front of them and he said touch touch my wounds risen from the dead yes conquer of death yes but in his body right so we look forward like the creed say not to the escape of the soul from the body we look forward to the resurrection of the body so see that's to your point it means God doesn't give up on the world he doesn't give up on the human project he wants us to strive to make this world as beautiful and just than good as possible

in the hopes of now attaining this transformation or think of you know the scene of the transfiguration of Jesus when it the clothes become dazzling white and all that he doesn't go up somewhere else he he allows them to see his transfigured person that's the biblical thing so it's both and right it's both and what do you think is something that's transfigured oh yes show it let me see and is that one particular famous piece of art or is that just the Raphael one on the right

there the screen I'm looking at there's a lot of different but the Raphael is probably the most famous one

“but he is the bodilyness of it that's what I would emphasize so many spiritualitys are kind of”

down on the body down on the world look at out of the world that's not biblical religion got it right we like the body the body is good but it's part time not really no I mean I look forward to the resurrection of the body but think about this too I mean you're saying our body will come back yeah we'll see this this body's part time yeah that's what I'm saying this body's part time but I mean like how many of the of the cells in my body did I have I don't the scientists will tell

me four years ago but nothing my whole body's been replaced right but the form of of me the basic pattern of me remains right well I think something similar we talk about the resurrected body I'll die I'll go into the ground but but God remembers the great pattern of me and can reconstitute just as it's happening now in nature again I'm getting reconstituted physically all the time it's a good point so can it happen in this sort of transfigured way and have it

doesn't it Paul talks about the spiritual body and he's saying what was he talking about but

“I think he's gesturing toward this it's the body but it's not like just this ordinary body it's”

a spiritualized body and he sends that in the resurrection of Jesus one of the toughest things that I hear people talk about like we're in a lot of like kind of like a I want to see like a me time but it's like it's like we've all kind of like we're inundated with ourselves right and people spend less time connected you know even though like technology has a hypothetically more connected but they spend less time connected and then a lot of people feel alone right like

even if they're not even alone sometimes there's this just feeling of being alone why is it is being alone a sin is it a sin to be alone it's not good for a man to be alone the Bible says right so I mean for the beginning it's because God is a family we'd say God is father son spirit God is not just yeah he's a triple Denver he's not a monolith he's there's like something familial there's something communitarian about God and so he wants us to have that same kind of thing

I see I think what happens is when you forget about God you lose your connection everybody else

so good you and I we just met today for the first time but see we're connect we're we are

I'll use a technical term we are ontological siblings because means we're brothers at the level of being because right now we're both coming forth from God's creative intention so if you go to the

“very depth of of of my own being I'm gonna find the depth of your being hmm say and that's that's why”

we're like our that's because why we're both here talking about it and learning they gather

he's breathing us right now into existence I see so that at that alone that that birth

in a way is something that we haven't common yeah we rarely ever even talk about that right and see what when you pray so in prayer again Thomas Martin says it's finding the place in you

“where you are here and now being created by God that's what prayer it means so if I in prayer find”

that place I found that same place in you and the same place in everybody else and that's why same Francis can say brother son and sister moon it's not just whistle and dixie I mean that's a that's a that's a very accurate statement oh yeah the son is my brother the moon is my sister because we're all coming forth from the same creative source and see that happens in prayer yeah the stitch is the same that lowest yet yes is the same right but now you stop praying or you say

I don't care I hate her darling I forget about God I'm gonna live for myself you've lost that now you've lost contact with that point and so of course we now live in antagonism okay so if we're all connected then what's a way to stay as tapped into that connectivity as possible love one another as I have loved you so Jesus says to his disciples I've loved you I'm I wield your good and you've found your commonality in me okay now you love each other as I

have loved you in second Corinthians Paul says God was in Christ reconciling the world to

himself okay there's the whole purpose of Christ sees it we've said we wandered into the land of unlikeness where loss were in the desert whatever metaphor you want but now in Christ God is reconciled us to himself but then Paul says now you become ambassadors of Christ now you become reconcilers that's the saints then that's their job the divided societies because there aren't enough of us we're not light we're not salt we're not the city on the hill and we're

“not doing our work of reconciling you know you know to the Amish hat behind you there I think the”

Amish kid that was on your show I yeah Timothy I love it from my diocese from my area and Minnesota lanes bro oh nice yeah he's one of a kind I want to have him back in because I hope I'm I'm scared that he's going away from I don't know I just there's a fear that I have that it's like he got a little to attempt a little to attempt it out there I mean there he is African Hooters I didn't see you know and I don't think the Lord's at Hooters no but I don't know about this particular

Amish kid but the Amish him but I don't know but the Amish are their beautiful examples of what I'm talking about you know these stories about you know a guy goes crazy and he killed these kids in an Amish school right and the the community would just be so vividly angry with him and these Amish people went to the home of the guys widow like they killed these kids and killed themselves they went that night to the home of the widow to comfort her and then they went to the to the

is trial or something to show their support that's see that's Christianity that's that's grace breaking out that's God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself they were acting as ambassadors of Christ in that regard because they were looking at someone else's pain over there's yeah right they were willing to go to the other even if it meant enormous struggle for them

“so that's what we're supposed to do see Christianity is never meant to be my little relationship”

with the Lord and you know so I go to church and I feel good about my prayers fine as a starting point but the whole point of it is now go you're an ambassador of Christ and if the world's lost its way we Christians have got to take some responsibility like no that's our job is to is to say Christ is the way let me show you it feels like the world has lost its way it feels like I don't know if it feels like people have all the time but it feels like the like these darker

powers and like corporations like greed has overtaken things you know um I mean you're just seeing

things that are so painful in the world right now and I maybe they've always been there right maybe

they're more like in our hand these days because we can see them on our phones and we can see them on social media but um it feels like we've just gotten like it doesn't feel like we as humans it doesn't always feel like we are that far off tune but it feels like there has been like an organized like strategy against us to like like like get to like them down to the cell like even with the algorithms and now your phone is watching you and how it's like and uh surveillance state

that we're entering allegedly in some place it seems like the devil is like I mean he's like

and you can't like turn back the time of the world really it's like you can romanticize the past

“and I'll do that a lot but it's like um like I guess it's just like yeah what do we do because it”

doesn't feel like we're not trying and maybe we aren't at times but it does feel like the sword against us has been sharpened with a sharpener that that we couldn't even fathom existed does that make sense yeah yeah it does and that that spooks me too because I do think it's a favorite tool of the dark powers the technology you know one way is just how mean that world is when you enter

the world of social media and you know that meanness is always better but in now it appears publicly

in a way that's damaging people and I know from a lot of studies in my own pastoral work young people especially young women are getting damaged like crazy on social media just the negativity and the judgmentalism and you know um yeah the dark powers love using that you know what do we do like what do you do as someone who believes in like a good right even even if they're even someone who may not even have the strongest faith in God right are in a specific

awe branch of religion but who just believes in like a moral good you know right it's just like you ever see that that's a very important point actually the belief in a moral good because if I can quote another here remind G.K. Chesterton you know that name G.K. G.K. Chesterton

“great English writer dies 1936 I think but he said this the light by 100 years ago he said”

"men today of loss there is. Men today of loss their way. Nothing surprising that men have always

lost their way." The difference is today they've lost their address see that we've always wondered you know and we're bad path but at least we kind of knew we were supposed to be going and he saw a hundred years ago it's true like mad today that we've lost our address like well what we're even going we're my supposed to be going and see we live in what I call the culture of self invention I invent myself through my own freedom right I decide who I am my values are don't

you tell me I won't tell you we'll just tolerate each other but I will decide my whole life and is a recipe for disaster depression everything else that's the black hole everything's drawn into me what makes life worth living I think is when these great values appear they could be

aesthetic values like when it like a song like when I first heard like a rolling stone my

Bob Dylan that's a song that changed my life hmm it wasn't the first song I liked that was sugar sugar

“by the archies remember that song so I'm a little kid I'm nine years old and I thought that was”

the coolest song right I like that song but Bob Dylan like a rolling stone I was what 17 or so when I heard that oh that changed my life that song that's now put it philosophically that was an objective aesthetic value that drew me out of myself okay that changed my subjectivity so you're saying that's something you found on the outside of you right like brought like kind of rearranged how you operated exactly now like merton cemetery mountain was a book like that Thomas Aquinas

probably the great hero might have discovered around that time these are these objective like beautiful things I remember when I was a high school kid and together in the class we're reading out loud Romeo and Juliet right I mean I understood about about four percent of it yeah dude it's not even that great well right but but my reaction when I first then notebooks better at thing but go on when I first read it was like man that that such a thing should exist I just thought was like a miracle like this thing

and it's complexity and the beauty of the language and the it just sort of it flum makes to me yeah you're right or at the first time I heard like Beethoven's life symphony of the old to joy symphony I mean like if you were to say hey I really liked that what a stupid response yeah I mean so stupidly inadequate to it because it doesn't even do it service because it changes you see if you say oh I like that I'm still kind of you know calling the shots right but really great values

the saints now in the moral order when you like the story of Colby when you hear this story you're like wow I can't even get my mind around that right so those are the things that make life worth living what I'm I'm against is this self invention thing of like I don't know I don't tell me what to think or do I will decide for me the death with that for me the death with that kind of autonomy what would be the appropriate response than of something that you heard of like you know

I'm saying what would be a response that was less autonomous to it would be what we call aesthetic

do it's work on you right and then you become a missionary of it which is happening right now there's even though those things I'm talking about Bob Dylan and they told them and Shakespeare all hitting me when I was a kid but right now you hear I'm a missionary I'm announcing them because like wow I just finished a film on the Gothic cathedrals I was trying to explain why was the whole world so so captivated right the Notre Dame fire a couple years ago remember the whole

world is like oh my god and I thought it's not just because all this nice old building is bringing down people sensed in that cathedral like something of enormous value was being lost so I told

I did this film that's meant to tell that story of why those buildings are so remarkable and powerful

so stop see aesthetic arrest stop you shut up stop thinking stop stop it's not about you right let that thing judge you right and then it will rework you and then send you on mission

“that's how it works I think is pornography causing a problem in your life”

do you find yourself watching porno for longer periods of time and having trouble stopping is porn affecting your relationship or dating life well you're certainly not alone watching pornography has become so commonplace today and oftentimes men use porn to numb the pain of loneliness boredom anxiety and depression shame and stigma prevent men from talking about these issues and getting help for them I want to introduce you to my friend Steve Steve is the founder

of valour recovery a program to help men overcome porn abuse and sexual compulsivity Steve is a long-term sexual recovery member and has personally overcame the emotional and spiritual despair of abusing pornography and has dedicated his life to empowering men to do the same

Steve is an amazing person and he is a close friend of mine I mean that valour recovery helps

men to develop the tools necessary to have a healthier sex life their coaches are in long-term recovery and will be your partner mentor and spiritual guide to transcend these problematic behaviors to learn more about valour recovery please visit them at www.valourrecoverycoaching.com or email them at [email protected] thank you so you're saying just finding things to honor is that sort of exactly what you're saying there or finding things that move you yeah well they

find you that's my experience is that they're not not taking some sort of like oh I like that

“or this is that just honoring what it is let and I think there have been teachers of the great”

value see who who have been affected by them and now can present them the people in a powerful way

I had this great professor at Notre Dame University I'm a kid and he was showing us his art history class showing us images from you know the tradition but he loved the Gothic churches and it was the first time I saw like the Rose window at Notre Dame and so he was someone who'd been affected by that and then he communicated it to me so we need teachers that know how to do that well I think one of the things that we run into is so much there's not as much oeration amongst communities and stuff

as much anymore it used to be the way you got a story yeah was you had to go and hear it from the source and it used to be like when I was growing up it was like do you got to meet so when so way to you hear well way to you hear the story right so it had this like there was a more opportunity for lore and and and there was more opportunity for like advertising and build up of like a story

“or a person or something right if you want to learn about like how to make something I don't”

have to travel to the guy in my town that makes it and sit there with him and develop a lot of apprentices and be an apprentice right we're not much an apprentice anymore I can go watch a YouTube video of something and there's still an apprenticeship there because I'm watching someone do it but there's a human there's a but the lack of humanity there I think I don't think we know the total value loss of that human connection of sharing a story or a skill or a mindset

or belief yeah I think that I don't think that we've come to like a place that we can calculate the loss of that because it feels like there's um that we're not doing something together

at that and that's it has a huge thing I used to know the uh Siri every day and hey Siri what about

this and I can get data information but you're talking about seeing a much deeper which is pattern and meaning and for pattern and meaning Siri can't give that to us the machines can't give that to us you need you're exactly right the the lore and the narrativeity of a community see that brings you right back to something else is really missing the initiation rituals of primal peoples this is true across the cultures go over the world in primal peoples of a young

man let's say he's got to be ripped out of his comfort area so the the men of the tribe or the sit of the town will go take the kid out from his home all right and then they'll scarify him usually like a something on the cheek of the knack of two thousand or circumcise him or something and the

idea of that was that third one I'll take one of the first two yeah I'll take the tooth

I mean as somebody got me for the third I don't I'm still gonna catch a guy who did it but uh yeah

“yeah anyway let's carry on but it's just it's meant to say life is life is hard I mean life's gonna”

gonna knock you around and so you're saying that like young man they used they would extract them from sort of their comfort zone yeah and they would um and mark their body somehow okay like to say okay remind that life is hard expected those life to be easy so it was an educational right got it but then see to your point they would then speak the lore of the tribe and now you need to know the history of this tribe this thing goes way beyond you way before you it was here long

before you'll be here long after you then the last step was almost invariably bring the kid to the edge of like jungle or tundra or whatever it was give him a few simple supplies go survive you know and come back only when the sacred has communicated to you and that's super healthy that moves see it got someone out of his self regard the the black hole of the ego your life's not about you

“life is hard uh and you're meant to find meaning in this realm way beyond what you can imagine”

and only when all those things have happened can you come back to the tribe and be of any use to us yeah if you're stuck at home at the attitude of a 14-year-old you will not be able to use to this tribe I think we have tons of uninitiated people they've not been brought through that process of and you'll use to do that's a great statement dude I'm sorry I don't know that feels like something man yet feels like um I don't know it feels like we're all just capable of so much more right

like I know work we can do so much more in some ways but there's a part of us that's capable of so much more that is like wilting yeah no right and that's the whole point of it is to bring a kid through that so that he can make a real contribution and so how would we like what is kind of a modern date like is there a way to do that now like yeah I think this is not to put you on this I mean but no no religion used to preside over this that's the whole thing religion presided over

this this process oh I didn't realize that sure I'm going to go like the primal peoples it's always

like interreligious context right so you're taking them out there and you're also sharing the

“lore I think the lore is so important man like I don't mean like this is sad to say it's like”

I don't even know that much of my family lineage you know like I don't even like I don't even a lot of times like yesterday was one of the first times I told my dad hello like when I was praying you know like not that that's where you can communicate with them but I felt like kind of like the portal was open so I told him hello my friend sister just passed away and I was like hey look out for my buddy sister you know yeah but I just like like I think it was definitely this bigger

connection between cultures and their ancestors yeah and the existence beyond us and I'm really honestly just speaking somewhat from myself you know and some of it's not any fault to mind some of it is in things that were brought upon me but it's like things that maybe I could incorporate when I had my own family and stuff yeah but I do think it's things that I think were a lot like they they there could be some lack of and in our in our society today my this is many years

going on my niece she's now within her mid 30s when she was like around 20 she and her classmates they took them up like in somewhere in northern Wisconsin and um made them live outside in the woods for several days they had the kayaks and they were up and down rivers and they really put them through it right and I remember this kid she came home and was telling me about this with such enthusiasm and at that point she was like like a like a late teenager and kind

of bored by everything but man she came alive talking about that experience and see there's at least an overtone of the initiation ritual stuff with that you gotta go through something tough and challenging and get you out of yourself regard she's self regard everything's about me you know

but but you got to be drawn out of there how did the church used to do that well there's

little remnant this thing that we we stopped doing this after Vatican 2 but at confirmation right so it's one of the sacraments and usually given around the coming of age time right so in my diocese when the kids were 15 there was a moment when the bishop would give the kid a little slap across the face well that was that's the imitation of the scarification or the knocking a two

“thought you know so it's meant to say life is tough put the lordness cheeks you know yeah that's”

what you don't say or some physical reminder right yeah it was physical no I think we we did it as a culture better you know that we realized yeah now see right there is the bishop like me confirming a kiss and we put the chrysm oil on the forehead but in the old days they were also slapped them

you have been using a batana oil sometimes on my scalp at night that's not chrysm oil though yeah

no it's not it's not ordained I know that it's just on the shelf or whatever you know that right in the middle there that's cardinal George who is of chicago no go up to the with the red vestments right there that's the pope no he was the Archbishop of chicago no who is it that's the Archbishop of chicago but he I live with him for about six years really yeah you're roommates now roommate so I lived in the same house with him and he was kind of a mentor to me kind of a

hero to me oh that's beautiful let's say his name again what is it cardinal Francis George cardinal chicago was he was either real deal yeah he was a very serious guy very smart like understood everything we've been talking about he understood the spiritual power of the church and he was a real student of the culture so he knew it was going wrong with our culture he was very insightful about that yeah it feels like there's bigger entities how do we I know you kind

of touched on I feel like how we battle that but like at what point is there like a rye uprising about like at what point do you feel like there's like as a group if we're kind of all like connected

“if there's some connection maybe because I think someone's I'm amazed that there's hasn't been”

more like revolution are you amazed at that at all just based on where things are kind of and like because it's gotten pretty scary you know it's like we're at a place where we should be spiritual revolutionaries and that's true I don't like political revolution here know that yeah I'm not saying political but they're they'll see but the church here's something interesting to me you know when the Lord says to to Peter okay if you're Peter upon this rock I'll build my

church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it right now all of my life I would say I heard that statement I took it to mean oh yeah hell's coming after us and they're not gonna they're not gonna prevail right we're gonna be able to hang in there but that's completely backward the gates of hell will not prevail against you was he if you were attacking a sitting in the

“ancient world you attacked the gates that was the weakest place so the image is not weird we're”

defending ourselves against the onslaught of hell no we're going after you we're going after the powers of darkness and we're going at your gates because it's the weakest place and we're gonna break in and we're gonna conquer you and so the church is a militant organization in essence we don't use the weapons of the world but we're battling the dark powers and part we've lost our confidence we've lost our sense of purpose armed with the great weapons that Paul talks about right

hey because sometimes it feels like the church yeah feels kind of sounds like the church doesn't have any ball I know yes and that's the problem that's the problem not only that offensively no no I know and you're absolutely right we should be on the march against the dark powers now here's something because if you if you guys aren't yes like if the church isn't then what is getting me right and if the salt loses its savor who's gonna you know make it salty again that's

the you know and if you put the light under a bushel basket and we've done a lot of that

by kind of accommodating the culture of losing our our edge here's something the saints always said

about the devil the one thing in us the devil can't manipulate is humility seeing the devil is marked by pride above all pride means self-regard me me me right so the devil can use anything in me you can use my strength he's my ambition he can use whatever but the one thing he can't use is my humility it just frustrates him because it's not it sounds something he would do right he doesn't know to do with it it's it's completely repugnant to his way of being so if I'm humble that means I've

I'm letting go of my ego I'm letting God direct me and the devil cannot mess with that he cannot mess with it but say you're so humble you're so accepting right you just keep accepting and accepting and accepting and then you there's and then no but it's it's a position of power real

because I'm just trying to make sure that I make sense yeah because then as I don't know to be honest

with you and so I'm trying to make sure that I make sense to you so when I say that it feels like it's just like a wolf like a queer essence giving up yes you know act we asking everything it's just like like if that is the humility then that feels like like surrender it feels like yeah it's not that it would be your humble before God you're you've let go of your own pretensions your own ego your own plans and purposes so that God can work in you so now you've unleashed enormous power into the

world think of the great saints they're not little you know a muley muley mouth you know people they're full of confidence in a sense of purpose because it's God's purpose not their own and then they boy they radiate power all over and and that's where the double can't you he can't use humility in that sense are we are we so addicted to self though that do you think like because we're pretty far down the line in some ways of really trapped in our own selves it's like we're all

our own businesses and we're all it's like you know we're I would say we're pretty far down the line with self yeah um do you think that we are so far down that we can't that that switch can't be flipped you know what I'm saying like we like we're so far like we're like looking in a mirror of ourselves looking in a mirror you know I'm saying like are we too far down like the narcissists reflection in the pond yeah yeah yeah to be able to get back to some space of humility because

this is what it feels like I feel like sometimes you feel like okay this is what God would want me to do and it feels like you run into like well what will other people think of that right you know

“or how will that be perceived right you have to let go of that or you won't be giving done or”

what if nobody uh like follows me or agrees with me I think those are a lot of the fears that right now that that's the whole spiritual struggle in a way see is I'm so held capped it by my fears

or by my addictions see sin is always an addiction right because sin capital S is putting something

other than God at the center of your life okay so it could be it's wealth pleasure power on our family country anything other than God if I make it central I will become addicted to it because I want God right that's what my heart wants and so I'm gonna try to find God in money well no matter how much money I make it's not gonna be enough it can't be it's not God or you know my life is all about my family great but if your family is is God it's not gonna satisfy you

now power if it's power it's not gonna satisfy you and before you know it you're gonna become addicted to these things right so breaking free of addictions and breaking free of fears then you're at the point of maximally in Colby then you can say I'm a Catholic priest take me right now that's in stream case it's a martyr yeah but but see I'm a smaller scale that's true of all of us I was you this too you do what you discern God wants you to do and don't worry about the rest I had a

teacher around the high school good guy mr. Stark he was our religion teacher he came in one day and he had this glass this glass of plain water right and without saying a word he took this little

eyedropper and put one little drop of blue and then proceeded to teach the class never referred to it

and finished the class 45 minutes and then he said to you see this water up here and by that time it was all blue right not even like dark blue and he said that was from one drop and then he said

“that's the influence of a saint and that's always stained my mind I think that's right you know”

that a saint which means someone doing God's will can have this enormous transformative effect and so do what God calls you to do and don't worry about it you'll be that one drop of water that will make this huge difference and that's for everyone yeah and gosh if everyone did that we transform the world and then see if we're trying I think it's just tough because it feels like the people that own the water right like come over and say no no more blue water

but the gates of hell will not prevail against us so if we have that confidence you know right in the end there's you mean you have to believe that there's you have to believe in good at the end you because there's no other way to operate that is like that gives you any reward right that makes sense to you like you have to believe that like even if everything points to like

“no you have to just have hope and keep going I believe the desire to please you does in fact”

please you Martin says right so as long as I have that desire all right and I just follow it

you want to pull back from the world and just think about you what God's calling you to do yeah

“and you know people I have this online ministry so a lot of times people will write in and you”

you know look this year I'm depressed I'm just I'm terrible shape I'm so unhappy what do I do and because I don't know these people and I don't want to be giving big advice to people I don't know sure but the one I feel confident giving and I do I'll say perform every day the simplest act of love and they know what I mean but they have to will the good of the other and it might be it's a note to somebody it's a kind word it's a smile because in it in that very act

you're pulled out of yourself yeah you know a Jordan Peterson study he's right about this that self consciousness and misery are identical hmm I see that's the point we've

been talking about all day today is the more I turn inward that makes me miserable what are the

best moments in a day without exception when I'm least aware of myself and I'm lost in something whether it's you know it's Willie Nelson or it's or it's Romeo Juliet or it's the shark cathedral or it's Indiana fever or like or it's this conversation what draws you out of yourself

“that's what gives you joy so it's just why this spiritual life it's it's always like on a”

razor's edge you know I I become happy when I'm least preoccupied with me and boom oh yeah all of religious practice all of it is simply meant to affect that change right yes that's the whole purpose of it understood yes some of my favorite moments you're thinking about somebody else yes you know and you become truly happier and better oh yeah well I just end up feeling better feeling better right I've gotten so there's times I've been so sick of myself like right I work

and you have to see video of myself and then I have to edit sometimes and I'm like here god like right

you know so sometimes I wake if I wake up and I'm thinking about somebody else at the first

autumn ahead of somebody else yeah it literally feels like the greatest thing it feels like the most like the best ice cream a flavor they don't even have that nobody else can get right because it's put it into theological terms you are at that moment in in tune with god yeah god is love and so the simplest act of love puts you in tune with god and therefore makes you happy hmm yeah it does man and it gets I will say this dude I it starts to get a little bit of

dick thing and a but yeah yeah get about other people and we wish and other people well and stuff like that you get like a little a little hallmark section absolutely you know another spiritual hero mind is a terres of this you know that anybody chance she's very popular in the Catholic world terres of the lives of this you live with the viewers of this is a little town in northwestern France and she was a nun who joined the combat when she was 15 she died at

24 she lived there for nine years lived like in a worldly sense a nothing life right but you are a little book called the story of a soul which has been massively popular all over the world most Catholic churches almost anywhere in the world you'll find a statue of the little flower that's her nickname the little flower sink terres there we go yeah there she is oh maybe I can get a piece there she is yeah oh anyway her book the story of a soul and she has a spiritual path

is called the little way got it what's the little way it's it every moment of the day find the path of love so that every moment no matter what condition you're in there's an opportunity for love do it that's the little way so I right now what's the path of love and see I would say well the path of love right now is talking to you you think willing the good of the

“other I think you're willing my good yeah this is the path of love so good that's stay on that”

amen and every moment there's an opportunity for it what most of us sinners do is we choose the opposite we'll say no go to my day choosing the opposite of love hmm this is why I'm miserable what's the fear thing because you're not gonna have something if you you know it's like a fear yeah there's a lot of fear attached to it yes not gonna have enough time to do the things I need to do yep which is why we put in front of our eyes as as cat as Christians Jesus crucified see

because you know that you know the Buddhist thing invite your fears in for tea do you know about that it's a spiritual practice where you say okay what am I afraid of I afraid of failure I'm afraid of you know I'm just not gonna go well I'm afraid that person like many more I'm afraid to get sick I'm afraid dying okay so now imagine you're inviting them all in for tea and you're gonna okay there's my fear of death there's my fear of failure welcome and you serve tea to them all

and what that exercise accomplishes is it detaches you from your fears and you realize okay but I'm not my fear of death and I am something else well put that in Christian terms it's detachment

base of Iola whether I have a long life or a short life I don't care whether I'm successful

or failure I don't really care I'm living in a space where I'm detached from any of the goods of the world that's spiritual maturity that's being a very hard to do but and that gives you freedom those yes now I'm I'm free oh yeah you're the binds aren't there then and you operate like at it I mean you're on a different plane yes you can do that and then you're gonna accomplish God's purpose see he can now work with free people is the trouble is you were we sinners are all

addicts we're all addicted and we're all at best we're like treatment programs for types of

“addiction that's what religion is it's like treatment program for addiction if we get free of our”

addictions then God can use us right speaking of addiction like there's a lot of you know pornography is such a huge thing in the world these days and it's such a tool that's used really I believe to like tear apart the American family and just families around the world and I shouldn't say the American family I'm sorry but families everywhere you know you're taking away like you're kind of hijacking people's lust and they're love really a lot of times you know

we've had people want to talk about that run porn addiction recovery centers and stuff like that I feel like it's to me it feels like it's one of the biggest problems that's going on out there

has the church spoken out like against it do you guys always some sort of responsibility like to

speak out against it like and what do we do there because like there's evil people that are just that are using this horrible stuff to ruin us yes and it's working yeah

“no I'm sorry I gotta be honest with you I think it just makes me so angry no I totally agree with you”

so like you know like my generation I mean thank God we didn't get addicted the way young people are now because you couldn't get pornography the way I mean a ten-year-old could get hardcore pornography on his own. Oh I had to have a buddy sketch me a little something for the weekend you give me a couple bucks no it was not easy right and you get a return fee too if you return it I can't mind but yeah so it was a different time. Oh thank God see we didn't get a look to the same way

but man today and you know I worked in seminary work into with these young people almost everybody to some degree. Oh yeah so many of my friends but what happens is you watch pornography and you you see it and they make they specifically make things it's like father, you know I'm seeing they make evil scenarios. It's the most evil and it's gotten more evil it used to be like nice person meets you know meets other nice person like it started out I think kind of like

“slightly maybe realistic you know. You would see it has to do that though because it's got to”

get ever more you know titillating and ever more to the different and that's not enough anymore so but it even attacked like the familiar like the fan it's like you know it's like dad's daughter you know it's like mother steps it's like it's just like um you don't know but it's so engineered it's like what do we do like why can't if Christianity is so strong and it's so many people why can't it eliminate that from like being allowed to be played in our country or whatever does that make

any sense yeah I know but the problem is that Christians have often lost their edge or lost their

sense of of challenge to the culture you know we've echo we asked to a lot of the culture we put the light under the bushel basket. I gave a talk this couple years ago we had this big eucharistic congress gathering in an Indianapolis I spoke to like 50,000 people and I said you know if if every Christian in this country started living according to what we call the evangelical councils you know like to grade recommendations given by the Lord we changed the country overnight

you know if we could harness the power of Christians but we've we've lost our edge to a degree and you're right this is a major area though because it's drawing young people into really bad addictive patterns and it's hurting their brain chemistry is getting affected. Yeah I mean I've certainly been down that road myself so I'm not like I'm also not separating myself from anybody yet you know I've gone to like different recovery like you know

meetings for it that my buddy runs so it's like I've certainly been affected by it you know I don't feel like I feel like I'm like I've certainly gotten into a better place because I have a lot more awareness now but yeah I've seen the way that it's affected my own life and it's absolutely yeah the way it's just because it takes away the way that you look at a woman it takes away the look the way that you then like look at your spouse or your girlfriend or even as other women

that are involved in your life and circle yeah know like the sexual lives of married couples are getting dysfunctional yeah pornography well just hijacks the connection and it's like did we are we hardly have any connection and then it's like but it's like yeah when does like

it yeah or the largest I kind of right though I mean the largest Christian

denomination got it yeah just like hot yeah like I don't know what to like I'm not I don't know if I'm I hope I don't sound like I'm preaching at you do I know okay I don't come just bummed

“out about it and I don't know what to do and I think it's like I guess I'm asking a power that”

seems greater than myself like what and I know that's not just you like you have total control over everyone in their behaviors but I'm asking like yeah how do you like but how do we get it out of like you would think if something gross came into our or something that was causing a lot of harm came into our world with the sheer number of people that we could get rid of it yeah I mean I think there does have to be some kind of government intervention when it comes to

pornography there should be some greater control of people access to it it's way too easy especially of young people to access it and I think it is a real belight upon society and I think there there should be more government intervention the church has indeed spoken out against it we've issued things as as the bishops of America about pornography and different ways of addressing it

“and helping people with it but I think it's got it's reached the point where the government's got”

to get involved yeah you know yeah it's heartbreaking kind of but you know the thing is no one should feel it's heartbreaking is fully not kind of it's heartbreaking fully yeah but go on it and I mean you didn't feel like I made you feel uncomfortable at it did you no okay good no no I mean because we're all coping with this we're all here in the world but also that no one should ever feel self righteous because as I say all sin is an addiction everyone's addicted to

something oh yeah you know this they're sorry about saying a gustan the great you know a gustan off of the confessions and all this he's he's very ambitious guy right and he wants to be speechwriter for the Roman Emperor and he gets the job and he's so excited and he's being carried on a litter right to the site where one of his speeches the Emperor's gonna give and he's so excited

“and on the way he sees this this hopelessly drunk guy just carrying on and you know and a gustan”

like oh look at this poor slob this you know addict and then occurred to me he said yeah but tomorrow he'll be sober and I will still be drunk on ambition and it was like this moment of illumination from gustan with all of his sophistication and I am such a he said I'm a worse addict in that guy so I mean all of us sinners we're all hooked on something oh yeah and yeah I've been hooked on a couple of those things yeah working thing and that work would solve things drugs porn oh

I'm trying to think of what else that might be it probably and most of those I'm in recovery for I don't know so do anymore or I'm not doing anymore um so that's been good but like uh but yeah there's a lot out there you know there's a lot of things that can get us addicted out there again speaking from a Christmas standpoint when you put up the crucified Jesus it's such a weird thing

and I'm always trying to convince people realize how deeply weird it is that we put up in our churches

if someone came like in a time machine from the ancient from Roman world and they walked into a room and they said this is a religious gathering and they see this guy on a cross yeah what is embarrassing people it's like the grossest thing and this poor slobbing put to death on this miserable instrument of torture so why do accidents are savory why do we do it right why do we do it well because you look at Jesus on the cross and you say okay he's got no wealth he's got no

pleasure he's got no power he's got no honor he's he's a disgrace to his family he's being mocked it's like every single thing that we want or that we're afraid of there it is and he's got he's got like none of it all of our fears are on full display yeah there and yet and in that right and it stripped naked like he's got nothing and he says father forgive them and into your hands I commend my spirit he's someone utterly at that moment ordered to God that's was so weirdly

powerful about the cross it's a stripping away see of all of our addictions all of our illusions

what's that line W H Audden the great poet we'd rather be ruined than changed we'd rather die in our dread than mount the cross of the moment and let our illusions die that's odd and a great Christian poet you know that last part we'd rather mount the cross of the moment then let our illusions die we'd rather be ruined than change we'd rather die in our dread than mount the cross of the moment and let our illusions die the cross of the moment that we have to mount our own cross right that

we're we have to be stripped of these things you know go back to the very beginning of our conversation about evil what why would God allow this we'll see evil you might say in a superficial way like

be exactly what God wants he wants to strip you of of your addiction to this thing you know so that's

mounting the cross of the moment and letting our illusions die yeah it's like we'd like like if you're brave enough if I don't if I don't mount the cross of the moment right if I don't saddle up and say okay this is it then I just I just get to live in the comfort of this hypothetical idea of of how things could have gone because there's comfort and not taking risks right right there's a demand there and there's a stripping bear that God wants you to do and

you're not gonna do it yeah I'd rather be ruined than change yeah he's calling you to a spiritual change that's that's conversion in Jesus metanoia in his in the Greek of the New Testament

“going beyond the mind you have that's what that means metanoia scary yes right it is very because”

we all have a mindset in place and Jesus always is saying metanoia today you got to get beyond

the mind you have and to reach the point of the little flower right love every moment or of maximum in Colby boy that's that is a major metanoia that's going way beyond the mind that you have because the mind we have is an addictive mind it's self-regarding it's self-important self-protecting think of all the energy most of the sinners every day go through putting walls around ourselves for protection mounting attacks against our enemies see what all of that is living in the land of

unlikeness all right well miserable yes and it's miserable what see religion is all about joy Jesus says that I've come that you might have life and have it to the full I've come that you might have joy and that your joy will be complete that's what we're here for yeah and yeah when I was

“running like when I was like in a relationship that I was cheating all the time it was in miserable”

yes I was always worried I was always concerned I was always sick of like my behavior and I was

just like the lies and just like it was always a nightmare right and funny like but the church has been saying that forever it's been it's been warning against that like forever but what's the move of the fallen mind of the church puritanical hung up on sacks go give me a break and you know you're caught in the middle ages not at all it's telling a truth that you discover through experience right yeah the church was saying that forever you know the Bible move that truth forever one of

the biggest ways that like pornography and different addictions and stuff keep us down is a shame you know why does God allow us to have shame or how does God view shame or how do you see that yeah well shame is not bad think of Adam and Eve right so they they cover themselves and they feel shame and the presence of God that's a healthy reaction if shame is it is if you're shamed in the presence of God I mean if you're feeling shame in front of somebody else but it might

I might be stupid it might be for the wrong reason or it might be misplaced not saying like deep shame you know like it is so ashamed of yourself yes and even see but that's liberating if in the presence of God you feel ashamed of what you've said or done good that's God's way of

“trying to you know that's why I like the conscience um John Henry Newman another hero of mine”

John Henry Newman John Henry Newman Cardinal Newman they just named him a saint a while ago congrats there he is yeah congrats John Henry Newman he referred to the conscience there he is as the aboriginal vicar of Christ in the soul hmm the the representative of Christ in the soul is your conscience so when your conscience says to you that was bad that's terrible and you feel ashamed that's Christ speaking to you when the conscience he says like rewards you and it does

the conscience says hey good yeah with with good feeling you rewarded pay attention to it that that's the vicar of Christ in the soul it's the voice of Christ in the soul let's pay it a little bit I wanted to talk real quick about like just some interesting things from the Catholic church from just like history and he's got the things called indulgences yeah can you tell me a little bit about that like it's just so it's just like funny to me I just learned about it the other day my

friend mr. Tommy was telling me about it yeah and we still talk about indulgences it would be you know in the treasury of Christ so we said the Christ one for a salvation and by his great act of self-sacrifice there's a kind of treasury in heaven and that we can call upon that you know on behalf of people that we love and we can pray and we can um benefiting from that someone can grow closer to God someone can to put it crudely you know get time off of purgatory it's just a

way of saying that lessening our our punishment it's calling upon the the treasury of Christ let's

something like that or bail your cousin out of what problem is the time of the reformation when

people were selling indulgences yeah so the church does not that smile upon that now that was being done in the middle ages where people would you know this is my money I will sell you an indulge to get your aunt out of purgatory you know for 60 years or something because that's crazy because then I'm guessing probably those guys would hit you up and be like hey your brother's been in purgatory for like lemons you gonna get him out of what you know right so it was abuse because

it'd be case of me that depended upon you know people started taking advantage of it right and it should not be something that's that's bought or sold so in itself it's a legitimate thing but now to be buying or selling um there's a lot of talk these days about like in the Middle East like of there's like a genocide going on there's like a lot of like you know conflict in the Middle East like is the is the is real that we see that gets talked about in the Bible is it the same

“like the as the government of Israel that's running the country that's there now no that's important”

like how does the church view that kind of yeah or do they even have a view on it yeah I mean I'd sum it up this way that the church recognizes the right of the state of Israel to exist so the church is in the pulps of a firm that you know over the last several decades but it's important to make that distinction you just did there's biblical Israel then there's the modern political state of Israel and there are two different things um which means you know a Catholic and certainly

be critical of of the government policies of the state of Israel as we would have any other

government yeah sure um Israel see functions very powerfully and symbolically in the Bible promised land right so there's the promised land that was promised to the ancient Israelites but it becomes in Christ now symbolic of the promised land of heaven so the new Israel we might say as the church and the church as itself a sign of heaven you know so it's very important to make that distinction between Israel using the Bible and the modern state of Israel so it's not the same

group no no secondly the church has been adamant against all forms of anti-semitism so go back the pulps over less many decades been really strong on that the pulps visited Jerusalem the pulp visiting synagogues and all that so we're against anti-semitism understood there's been like in the Catholic church there was like over the years there was like kind of a marring of the Catholic Church because of they had like you know uh I don't know if it's our

pastors in the Catholic Church as well yeah well talk about a priest can be a pastor of a parish okay so they had like um you know I guess I'm trying to think of a way to even say it they had like you know the Catholic Church a lot of times they've had like kind of they've had like pedia failure or in the past in the church right they've had that it happened over the years and it kind of gives it like anytime like you use if you bring it up people will like make a joke

like that happens a lot I know yeah and it's unfortunate yeah it's not for why do you think that people who have suffered from pit pedia failure or or or or labeled pediped pediophiles

“why did so many of them kind of end up in the church yeah I think it's a better way to put it because”

why would someone who sexually attracted to young people want to join the church and be a

priest or a minister in the church well the answer is obvious in a way because it gives them a lot

of authority and access to young people got it and so someone who has that pre-delection I understand perfectly why they might be attracted the same way again to be fair if you look at uh sexual abuse of young people in our public school system in the Boy Scouts in fact wherever you find young people and then others in authority you're going to find this problem of pedophilia most pedophilia of course exists in families not in you know the Catholic church put in families so that's a

better way to put it I can I certainly see why someone might be attracted to the position because they're going to be in a position of leadership that authority and access to you that makes sense what I think is really false the insinuation that somehow the celibate priesthood produces people who are

“attracted to children I think that's demonstrable false you do yeah I want to hear more why you think”

that well because one thing you can find uh sexual abuse of children way outside the the confines of the Catholic church it's not something that's unique to the celibate priest for sure and you find it again in families and in coaches and in Boy Scouts troops etc so yeah a lot of spaces where there is like a family that's some sort of a leadership or trusting it's I think what is more plausible is the other way around that you see why someone who's attracted to children in this

kind of perverse way would say oh that's that's a good position for me to get in it's authority and access to kids and also you know I feel it's so important to point out the church responded really well this was a terrible crisis I mean there was there was terrible sexual abuse children within the

there were very very strong steps taken what are some of the steps that kind of were kind of

“instituted um and I'm sorry I don't know this yeah no it's good first like at the seminary level”

so I was a seminary rector for a while which I was in charge of a seminary and so when you're screening people for the seminary a major major preoccupation was to screen for this kind of difficulty and we did it through you know psychological exams and that sort of thing and then lots and lots of instruction in the seminary itself about this problem there's also the program that's now all the way to the Catholic Church called the Virtus program that is educating people on a very

regular basis and very seriously about sexual abuse of children about the dangers about grooming about all of these things so I mean to every single month I get in the email this this Virtus thing I have to there's a little article that I have to respond to and answer questions about it but we all have to go through an extensive program around it and it was some of the screening like what was that like it's interesting well like psychological screening so every kid come in the

seminary has to go through a battery of psychological testing and interviews like everybody that wants to be a member of the seminary yeah and then as as rector I had to read every single one of them you know and then very attentive to people you know sexual history and that sort of thing and because you were sort of the person that had to kind of be like their liaison I guess into the like getting approved I guess yeah I had I had I had to give the word finally because

I'm gonna get into seminary so sometimes I had to say no we're not accepting would some of them feel at least this was a safe place to admit to you what had been they've been thinking about

or what had been going on like well you never know for sure I mean sometimes people can

deceive you yeah for sure but you know that we also of independence like colleges too looking at all these guys got it so they're different ways but no we are hyper attentive to this problem now in the church and I think it's fair to say that one of institutionally one of the safest places for young person is the Catholic church because we're so attentive to the problem we've done so much to try to address it and then also just deal with this problem of you know if people

really are guilty of this crime that they've got to be out of the priesthood and the problem

“was for so long a time bishops and some of them I think in good will thinking was the best thing”

would send a guy for you know prayer or maybe some psychological treatment and then reassign him we now know that you can't do that on help no and so that's you know we're well aware of that and what about today like if somebody is is found guilty of of a sexual abuse what happens yeah I mean if someone it's clearly determined that the person is guilty we have a zero tolerance policy they're out of the you know the priesthood and yeah nothing to is it when accusations

come forward we take them great with great seriousness and we always bring the the secular

authorities in we make sure that the police know about these accusations that was a problem two years ago with some of it was not brought to the attention of the police like we'll handle it within the church but it's a very high priority now understood so before you go and thank you so much for your time today there's a lot of like the pop spoke out against like artificial intelligence

“right I think there's a fear right now this is my fear okay I'll just tell you what it is”

I fear that they create these data pools right they create these they create these artificial intelligence these AIs and then we go there for everything right how do I feel why don't I feel good today right what's going on this becomes your friend and then that also becomes almost a place where you pray right this is how I feel this is what's going on this is what I'm scared of what do I do and it all leads into some like it leads into a machine telling us what to do

and not a higher power uh connection and that feels like like almost I don't know if we start on evolving I don't know what's gonna happen but that feels very very scary when you like completely

sever um what it means to feel like it means to be human one of the last one of the most important

things is that make sense yeah no the AIs becomes the new god is we we're not really understanding we're assembling data and and that really worries me a lot we're getting great data but see understanding means seeing patterns seeing connections um thinking and issue through and we don't do that a lot we're so addicted to the quick give me the quick data on something that can be useful but it it undermines our humanity you're exactly right about that our humanity's tied to our

capacity to understand yeah which means to see patterns of meaning right and purpose and the AIs not going to give that to us um there's the economic side too that you know jobs will be taken for sure by AI and so if work is tied to human dignity that's really a problem the pope sees

posing a spiritual challenge for sure yeah because you hear just people say ask chat I

“know where we'll say ask perplexity ask you know they say ask this AI how about thinking through”

yourself we're ask God or ask God or talk to another person and have an argument about it or something yeah um yeah talk to another person like you know because you can find God through other people too

a lot of things I love arguments that the problem is the social media world's given rise to

insult and as all we know how to do anymore it's just we throw insults and we're snarky yes more snipers and it is like wrestling but an argument is yeah I mean assembling data putting it together in a logical formula entertaining the view of your opponent answering their injections that's an argument right and that's a beautiful thing it's a non-violent way of adjudicating disputes but if we forgotten that all we have left is your idiot and you know I hate you

and mothers and idiot too and that's all we're left with and that's deadly yeah I just wonder like oh yeah here it says the current pope Leo the 14th is not anti-AI but he argues that AI must remain a human controlled tool and be judged by whatever it protects weapon dignity and be and be judged by whether protects human dignity work freedom truth and the vulnerable he sees real benefits and technology while warning that efficiency profit and technical

power should never become society's highest values right AI should serve people not replace manipulate

surveil or dominate them but if AI does these things what recourse does the pope have any recourse really or is it just a prophetic voice I would say but then also I mean he's he's connected to this huge network of influence so if all of us who are you know under his authority we say yeah that's

“important we can all in our own way you know implement that so no he doesn't have an extraordinary”

power that surveillance thing you mentioned earlier that always spooks me because I know my phone is listening to me and you know I'll have a little casual conversation that I'm scrolling and something I mentioned some product or whatever it comes up and I suppose it sees it as a positive I see this deeply weird and disturbing yeah if that's stupid machine is listening to me yeah you know at least it's listening to you mostly do good stuff right but imagine the rest of us you're a

bitch I mean hopefully you're on the up enough yeah for the most part but what if those things got more powerful and they could then start manipulating you and you know it's spooky it's very spooky I mean what do you think God would say about it well do you pray to ask God for like thoughts about that kind of stuff sure you know why yeah but you know the Bible knew about this in a ways that the tower battle story you know of like let's all get together we're gonna we're gonna through our

own technical accomplishment we're gonna build this tower up to heaven that's a beautiful symbol of this problem that when we want to get so in control of things and we so manipulate well that turns on us that destroys us you know so the scattering of the people though the scattering of the languages that's a sign of how this project has turned on itself it undermines itself no the Bible knew all about this stuff in its own way and now the craziest part of that even in its own

“moment is that babble is now a language learning average so it's like I think six out of four”

people or whatever people you say hey what's babble and they say they don't even know the story but they know the language learning model well they think they know the language learning app which is fine I mean it's a good app they think babbles related to babble on you know so that that story was probably written down not long after they returned from the babble only in exile right the Jews

and so what babble on meant to them was this big dominating political power so the Bible has always

been suspicious of big you know political and economic power it's dangerous yeah it's dangerous do you feel like the Catholic Church is still as powerful as it once was well the husband how you define power I think in many ways were more powerful I mean you could say years ago it was more aligned with political power and that sort of thing and I think we've learned the west and there that it's not a good road to go down but in terms of our global impact and all that I mean look at the role the the pulp is the most

recognized religious leader in the world I mean who is his rival the Dalai Lama maybe but there's no one that has the stature of the poll oh yeah no one has the institutional of religion that we have so no we have an enormous power of influence and all that but I would say stay away from from political power yeah you know it's scary yeah yeah no we should always be in a kind of a prophetic stance doesn't mean you're always denunciating power power is it's not a bad thing in itself and the church

can speak out favorably a political power but we shouldn't be identified with it you know does the church support specific political parties are not really no we we always make a point of not doing that I mean so we kind of bend over backwards in election season to say here's what the church stands for here's what we feel strongly about but we never say therefore vote in all Democrat or vote Republican

called the transcendent third oh yeah and we had a goober on actually as well this gentleman named

“Guru Dev and he talked about the same thing really he talked about the same pattern can you tell me a”

little bit about the transcendent third I learned that from Aristotle when I was a young philosophy student I saw the great Greek philosopher Aristotle it was wise about so many things Aristotle but this was a friendship he said he studied friendship a lot of Aristotle he said a friendship will flourish when it goes beyond the two friends loving each other so I like you you like me okay great but it'll really flourish when together we fall in love with a transcendent third

so it could be our country it could be art it could be philosophy it could be God right that there's something in common that we both love and see look we're drawn out of ourselves looking upward together to that hmm now we draw closer together almost like willy nilly without even trying we get closer together early on I mentioned folten sheen right about to be be out of fight he wrote a book back in the fifties I still recommend it to couples engage couples called three to get married

“and he made exactly this point to get married you need to bride you need to groom a decrease”

and if you don't have Christ the brine groomer are gonna fall apart but if together they fall

in love with the transcendent third with Christ they'll stay together and I think that was there you go

that was true when Aristotle said it was true when folten sheen said it and I think it's a great principle for anyone in a relationship if we're just infatuated with each other did you see the movie by the way obsession this summer did you see it it was this it was this some cheaply made movie right that was hugely it's really good from a spiritual standpoint no it didn't see it as I heard about this but I didn't see it's good it's about this guy right who he loves this girl and she's not

reciprocating so frustrated so he got been that guy shop right it's like a like a magic thing or something and he it's the stick and if you break the stick and you make your wish will come true so he goes

“Lord not Lord it's like make make me love her or make her love me more than anything in the world”

breaks the stick and at that moment very spooky he's just dropped her off right at that moment she appears in the doorway and he's like my dream has come true well I won't give the movie away but don't watch it because it's spiritually very rich movie what happens when see there's no transcendent third there's no transcendent she just loves me yeah that's it she will devour you and you you will destroy each other dead right and it's very spiritually alert movie that way

yeah this um yeah I love I just love the idea that I love the reminder of that because it's also a reminder of to go do something right yeah to fall in love with something else right yeah together yes together it's just like find a friend and go do something right yeah this this guru that we had and he was saying like if you if you're two lines and you want to get together you're gonna meet but then you're also just gonna keep go you know but if you

also then you're headed in the same direction it's just like kind of a force you know it'll draw you together without you even knowing it it'll draw you together automatically um can we say a prayer for you go yeah yeah you're gonna pray or you want me to pray can you pray sure yeah and the name of the father and the son of the Holy Spirit Heavenly Father we thank you for this chance to be together we thank you for this conversation may it proved me blessing to all those

who who see it and all those who hear it Lord continue to bless Thio and his work and bring him closer and closer to you and may all those who are listening all those who are watching also come closer to you as the great goal of their life and I pray through Christ our Lord amen amen where'd you baptize Catholic thank you I was in a Presbyterian church or Presbyterian yeah okay where did I read Catholic or Catholic family or somebody probably made

something wrong okay but yeah my my journey what it's been like is like most recently it's like most recently is probably the most that I've like the strongest relationship I've had with God

I used to believe I've always believed in God I've always believed in God I've always felt that there's

something greater than me and thankfully you know but yeah most recently I just like I don't know just more than ever I just there's no I just don't have any doubt about it and I just have just been praying a lot more meditating yeah I'm in a cool Bible study and so like oh you are it just gives me a group of people to care about outside of myself yeah that's good so it's been fun because everybody will share what's going on with them and then it gives me something to pray about

for my friends so it's like it's so nice when I get to like think about this person like

specific or like you know it's almost like you're like kind of designing it yourself you know but it's

“just you know stay with the Bible study that's good stay with that yeah it's been and it's just been a”

great group yeah so I just you're a national yeah good so it just feels like yeah I don't know that's

why I'm staying with that that's great yeah and I don't want to pretend to be somewhere that I'm not

“at you there you know I just want to be yeah I just want to just one day at a time all right that's it”

Bishop Robert Baron thank you so much for your for your just your desire to get out and spread the

word and just share the message and I always enjoy listening to you and I'm so glad that we

“got to hang out today yeah me too thank you very much amen thank you”

[BLANK_AUDIO]