From $75 to a $1.2B Public Company: How Payam Zamani Built His Business Empire | Entrepreneurship | How We Profit | E10

Indeed, AT&T Business, Northwest Registered Agent, Mindstone, and Honey Love. Shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you grow your business. Start your $1 per month trial at Shopify.com/propheting.

Indeed, helps you attract, interview, and hire all in one place. Get a $75 sponsored job credit to boost your job's visibility at Indeed.com/podcast. AT&T Business delivers reliable business grade connectivity that gives your team a competitive edge.

Switch to AT&T [email protected]. Northwest Registered Agent gives you the tools and guidance

“you need to build a complete business identity.”

Visit northwestregisteredagent.com/yapfree and start using free resources to build something amazing. Mindstone is an AI transformation company that helps professionals get real value from AI. Get 10% off their four week AI competency program

at experience.mindstone.com/yap. Honey Love makes the most advanced sports bras and shapewear on the market. Save 20% off Honey Love by going to HoneyLove.com/propheting.

As always, you can find all of our incredible deals

in the show notes or at youngimpropheting.com/deals. Profitability to me is not optional. If you talk to my executives, they will tell you that I often don't know the revenue of their businesses, but I know their margins.

- 'Cause you don't care about the top line revenue. - I don't care about top line. I'm not running a publicly traded company. If you give me a business that has revenue, I'm able to make it profitable.

- Pyam's Amani is the founder and CEO of one planet group. He previously co-founded AutoWeb and took it public at a $1.2 billion valuation before turning 30. - Our biggest company is called buyer-link.

- buyer-link is $130 million a year business. 10% of all new cars sold in the US are sold through buyer-link.

“- What is your guidance on customer acquisition costs?”

- In my business, I don't want to spend more than 50% on acquiring your customer. Often people come to me and they say that, you know what? - So how did you first start one planet? - I got a call from my company, realplight.com.

They said that can you come back? We're dealing with it this last year and our bank loan is being called and the company will go away. And I decided I'm going to buy the company. So I met an offer to the board that was bigger than anyone else's offer.

It should be told they did not have the cash at that moment in time. But... - Pyam, welcome to Holly Profit. - Thank you for having me, Hala. - I'm so excited for this interview.

And actually, I'm thinking about this interview as like a hybrid regular trip episode and a Holly Profit episode because you were just so accomplished. And you've actually achieved things that many entrepreneurs don't achieve in their whole lives. At 28, you had a company go public.

It was valid at $1.2 billion, which is absolutely incredible.

And now you've got a company, one planet, which essentially buys and sells and invests in companies, which is just so cool. And a lot of us entrepreneurs were newbies, you know, we probably many of us listening haven't even exited a company yet. And maybe we want to have a holding company or a private equity company in the future.

“So I want to kind of start with the basics. Does that sound good?”

- Absolutely, sure. - So let's start with like private equity. What is private equity exactly? - You know, I've got my own definition. Other than frankly, I don't even know what I'm running if it is private equity.

It's my company and I don't have any LPs. I don't have any outside investors. - Okay. - So I manage my own money. And like you said that, you know, we do own a few companies, but most companies that we own, we found it.

So I have been the founder of those businesses. - Yeah. - But we have also invested in, I think, 45, 50 companies today. - Really cool. So when I was researching you, it's kind of like a hybrid between a private equity company, a holding company, and an operating company.

It makes sense out of my chaos, that's the true thing.

You know, I always tell people that if you look at one planet logo,

there's a pale blue dot, which is the earth. But to me, my brain is full of dots. And that one dot kind of forces me to focus a little bit. - Yeah. - You know, recently I made a movie. - Oh, yeah. - I wrote a book.

And you know, I operate a bunch of different businesses. So a little bit of a chaotic life, and I enjoy it, but I try to also remind myself focus. - Yeah. So let's actually talk about your story because it's so powerful, it's very inspiring.

And you actually, your world kind of started very chaotic. Talk to us about how you grew up, and how you ended up in America. - I was born in Iran. I was born in a high family. That's my religion. And then the revolution happened in 1979.

including the buyers of Iran. And so the 1980s became very difficult. They killed a lot of the buyers. They imprisoned a lot of the buyers. And all of it, because different religions,

they were fanatics. And they also expelled the highs from many schools. They, even today, 47 years later, the buyers don't have the right to attend universities in Iran. - Wow. - So when I was 11,

I was expelled from school in a most horrific way. They basically, they religious leader of the school, got a mob of over 50 students to kill me. That was his plan. - Why? - To get rid of me. - Wow. - To exterminate me.

That was their plan. Like, they are served alive, but think of it as a much of death. For one mile, kids spitting on you, beating you, throwing rocks at you, kicking you. And I talked about their two times in my life,

I did not think I'm going to get that situation alive. That was the first one.

I survived that, but I was never able to go back to that school.

But you fast forward, about six years later, my parents decided that it's time for me to leave the country. - Yeah. - And good law-biting citizens, they had to find a smuggler to get me out of the country. That's so crazy, and so your parents basically saved up

“to allow you and your brother to go to Pakistan, is that right?”

- That's right. My brother left first a year before me. And then I left in 1987, they paid a smuggler. And you know, it was a very, like it's one of those journeys that you don't want anyone to ever go through. It leaves its mark on you forever.

- Yeah. - The way you say goodbyes, the way that you're going through a desert, that you don't know if you're going to survive. You have no idea where you're headed. - Yeah. - And I was just a trial at the time, and by myself, no family member with me as I was going through that.

- No, he had left the year before me. - Mm-hmm. - And so it was a very, you could call the terrifying experience.

And it was, the second time I thought I'm not going to survive,

was during an incident that happened during that journey. But again, you know, I look back and I feel that these difficult journeys in life, they end up defining who we become. And, you know-- - Makes this really easy. - Makes this awesome. After all that. - A bad quarter is nothing.

- Yeah. - So-- - Okay, so how did you make your way to America? 'Cause that's really where you got your education, you started building businesses. - So in 1987, when I made it to Pakistan, after getting my-- basically what was called temporary asylum

from the United Nations, I found my way to the U.S. embassy in Islamabad. And I talk about this quite often that that was a moment when, for the first time, I experienced human rights

“that my life is worth something. - Yeah.”

- The U.S. treated me with respect, the embassy, in fact, higher the lawyer, to make sense out of my case. - Wow. - To present it to the ambassador, that was done and ultimately, I received a residency and asylum from the U.S., and then at charity,

Adam New York, but my ticket, so I was able to make it to the U.S. And my brother and I, we ended up landing in the U.S. together at the same time, in June of 1988, and, you know, there are many headlines about this journey

that I've done and many interviews I've done and the headline is always

that we landed in the U.S. with 75 bucks in our pocket. - Hmm, I love that. It reminds, so something we were talking earlier before this interview, and I was telling you that, like, I feel very, like, relatable to your story because of my father. And I remember my dad passed away, but when he was alive, he loved America.

He'd always be like, this is the best country in the world. America is the best, like he was so proud to be American, because for him, he was able to make all his dreams come true by living in America. And he really, really appreciated the freedom, the freedom to build businesses, to be successful, and, you know, there's not much oppression.

It's like, everybody is equal in America. - Yeah, I mean, clearly we have our problems in New York. - We have, of course.

“- But I think, and then also, I would also say,”

and American dream is an invitation. It's not a guarantee. The U.S. is a platform that was built over 250 years, at times unjustly. - Yeah. - But he was built over 250 years, and this foundation is what we entrepreneurs

in mind that it's not just me building or you building many people sacrificed for this foundation

that we are able to take advantage of, and build our businesses, and we need to be grateful for that. - I totally agree. So, let's talk about how you put yourself through college,

“because I think this is really inspirational. A lot of people who are listening right now,”

I think everybody's coming from all walks of life. Some of us are successful entrepreneurs. Some of us are just starting out, and a lot of us are starting from zero. We don't have wealthy parents. We feel like we're behind a lot of our peers because of that. Talk to us about your journey of putting yourself through school, and how you kind of built your wealth initially. - Yeah. So, I had one year of high school left when I came to the U.S.

And so, let's get past that. - Yeah. - And then I went to UC Davis, and I painted homes. And that was actually a great experience for me, because the idea was to paint homes, but I wanted to run a business. - Yeah. - So, I would hire other students to paint homes. And I was the manager giving estimates and doing the, you know, getting a job is working on so on. So, I did paint homes, but I had three job sites going on at the same time,

at any given time during the summer. - That's great. - And the idea was to make as much money as I could, so I could pay for my college years. And that was the primary way that I was able

“to pay for school. But also, I think that, you know, it's interesting when I think back to those days,”

school wasn't doing it for me. It wasn't exactly getting me all excited and joyful, but I felt that, you know, what, as a behind-the-run, I would not have had the right to go to university. - Yeah. - I have to finish college. So, that was something that I wasn't willing to go share with myself. I went to college, but you think back, I studied environmental psychology. I'm not doing anything with it, but it did give me the discipline, I guess, the commitment and

the background that allowed me to do other things. - And then it was auto-web, the first like real

company, well, I guess the paint company was a real company, but it was auto, like, how did you start auto-web? - Yeah. So, in 1994, when I graduated from Davis, my brother also graduated from university, and he got a job in Microsoft. And one day called me and he said that I wanted by Honda,

“Honda doesn't own a website, doesn't have Honda.com. What do you think about building a website for cars?”

- Now, up to that point, I was 24, or 23, I owned 16 different cars. I loved cars, cheap cars, but I would buy and sell cars. And I thought that if there's a way for me to get even with car dealers, I'm in. I would love to do that. But I didn't know anything about the internet. So, he became the technologist, and I was a salesman marketing guy. So, we founded that business in November of 1994. And if you think about back then, you know, there were only 5,000 domains that were registered,

total. There was no Google. Yeah, who had just started. - Wow, that's so early. - Early on. I mean, to sign up somebody for our program, we had to first define,

describe what is the internet, because there'd never been online. So, really early days.

What is up, young and profitors? If making holiday sales are a big part of your Q4 strategy, listen up. Now, when you think of Walmart, you probably think of their physical stores. But did you know about Walmart Marketplace? It's their e-commerce platform where independent businesses and entrepreneurs can list their products on Walmart.com and reach millions of shoppers. Right now, you can apply to sell and ship your inventory directly to Walmart fulfillment services.

So, you're completely primed for the peak holiday demand. Even better, you can build your seasonal inventory using customer favorites. These are high demand items that Walmart shoppers are actively searching for right now. When you add eligible customer favorites to your catalog, you can receive up to 100% off referral fees on those products. Don't sleep on this opportunity to scale your business as season. Get holiday ready with Walmart Marketplace today.

Head over to Marketplace. Walmart.com/yap and sign up right now. Again, that's Marketplace. Walmart.com/yap. What's up, young and profitors? One thing I learned from building my own business is that the scariest part of starting is definitely not coming up with the idea. That's the fun, imaginative part. The scary part is realizing, okay, now I actually need a way to sell this. When I built my online store for Yap Academy, I didn't want to spend weeks figuring out

how to code websites, how to figure out payments and all that technical stuff. I didn't want to hire for that either. That's why Shopify made so much sense for me. You can get your store up and

guide you along the way. I'm also obsessed with shop pay because once somebody is ready to buy, you don't want any friction getting in their way. Shop pay lets them pay in easy installments. And it's one of the reasons why the buying experience on Shopify feels so seamless. If you're ready to hear of your first sale today, head over to Shopify.com/propheting to start your free trial today. That's right. Start your free trial at Shopify.com/propheting. That Shopify.com/propheting.

What's up, Yap Gang? If your health routine disappears the second year week gets busy, it might just be too complicated. You need something easy that you can have in your routine that

“you'll never forget. For me, AG1 keeps things really simple. It's a daily health drink that combines”

a multi-vitamin pre and biotics superboots and anti-oxidants in one scoop. AG1 helps maintain energy, supports gut health, immune health, and it's clinically shown to support gut health and fill common nutrient gaps. And with the next gen formula, you're getting 75 plus ingredients that are clinically shown to improve key nutrient levels within just three months. As entrepreneurs have enough on our plates. We've got teams, tool, systems. Your health habits should not just

feel like another project on your to-do list. And Yap Gang, I've got a special offer for you. For a limited time, you can save 20% off your first subscription order of AG1 next gen or AG1 Pro at drinkag1.com/propheting. That's drinkag1.com/propheting. Really early days. And then

“you ended up going public at 28 years old. That must have been incredible. What happened there?”

Like, when did auto web? At some point, you guys got kicked out basically a leadership, right? Yeah. So, it was not easy for us to build that business. Neither me or my brother. We had not gone to Ivy League schools. We had not gone to Stanford. And Silicon Valley, especially back then, was very much about, you know, like a sea in a sense, or your Harvard grad. Or your Stanford grad. And, or your white. And there were many other factors that really played a role in Silicon Valley.

But I always say this, in the US, there are bumps along the way, but the role is never blocked.

So, you know, just find your way through it. Don't let those things define you. And don't become a victim of them. Yeah. So, to raise money, we had to go to Fort Lee, New Jersey. Now, we were based in Silicon Valley, but the end of the Fort Lee, New Jersey raised money. This is more brown people in Fort Lee. We have probably. And then, ultimately, for the third round, we raised money from technology across over-ventures, DCV in Palo Alto. But it took a while for us

to get them interested in investing in us. We built the business, but we did not raise a whole lot of money because we couldn't. Yeah. Which was a good thing meant we held onto a lot more ownership. We were forced to hold onto a lot more ownership. So, we took a company public in March of 1999. But I was a sea, you want to tell January of that year. And the board was insistent that we bring somebody from the outside. We did, unfortunately, great guy, but just that was an

expansion. Just because the company was going public, it did not mean it was no longer start-up.

“And the start-up requires, I think, the soul of the founder. Yeah. And so many wrong decisions were made”

which, you know, you look back, you know, you wish that that was in the case. And you ended up buying the company back like the years later, right? For years ago, the company had a, had a challenging few quarters. And the company had a going concern issued by the, by the auditors. And so, I made an offer. And I bought the company and took it private. So, it definitely was a

sweet moment to be able to buy the company back. And the company had accumulated $350 million

in losses over all these years. We made the company profitable in one month. I'm going to ask you about that. We're going to talk all about turn rounds and how to turn on companies. But let's focus on one planet. How does one planet, like, like, really break it down for us, like, what do you do in this company? How do you guys make money? Yeah. So, one planet itself is really holding company. So, one planet does not, you know, it does not have much of a

piano. Okay. But the companies within one planet have, have operate operations. Our biggest company is called buyer-link. Okay. And buyer-link actually, all the web is also owned by buyer-link.

And buyer-link is $130 million a year business. Very profitable. And it is basically a, a, a

It's the largest generator of consumer demand for new cars in the U.S. 10% of all new cars sold

“in the U.S. are sold through buyer-link. And buyer-links businesses, websites. We also own assets,”

like usecars.com. We own all the web.com. We own contractors.com. We own California.com. We own a lot of assets. But all of these assets are designed to generate consumer demand for different verticals that they're sold in, uh, in, uh, I would say the digital format. That the buyer of that, uh, of that consumer demand can monetize, uh, sometimes as a lead, sometimes as a click, sometimes that's a call. But all of the traffic that we generate, all the

consumer demand that we generate is sold in a perfectly matched way to an end advertiser who

never had to learn anything about online marketing. Mm. Okay. GM is a big client, uh, you know,

Nissan Kia Hyundai, uh, all the, for example, car makers are, are our partners, uh, we send the OEMs

“in the country about one million, uh, car buyer leads on a monthly basis, uh, that really fuels”

their internet sales departments. Interesting. So how did you, like, first start one planet? Like, where did it all start? How did you, I guess, like, you, you got some money from your, like, going public or, like, how did it all start? Yeah. And then how did you, like, keep building on top of it? We're eventually, it was a holding company. It's actually a bit less interesting than that.

I wish that was the case. Uh, what happened was, um, until about 2014, I was running a company

called reply.com. Okay. And I had raised me, see money and reply.com, pretty much did what buyer think does. Okay. Um, but then in 2014, I personally as an entrepreneur hit a bit of a roadblock. I decided that I'm kind of like tire of this game. And the game I'm talking about was dealing with five VCs on my board and trying to grow a company all this time, regardless of, you know, if that company should grow at that moment in time or not, because sometimes

unnatural growth leaves a carnage behind. Uh, but that's the name of the game. Yeah. If you're a bad VC back company, you have to keep growing. Yeah. So I went to my board and I said that I'm done. I'm quitting. They told you the founder. You're the chairman. You're a larger shareholder. I said, yeah, but I can no longer do this. So I recommended that they make a CMO, the CEO, and I left.

“And I remember that was July 16, 2014. Uh, my wife and I, two daughters, we got in the car and we”

just went a road trip. It was the best time of my life to just come completely, like not have the worry of that business at that moment in time. During that time, I was, I went to a conference. It was a behind-spired conference. And I saw this woman give a speech who runs an organization called Tiger Justice Center that deals with woman who are seeking legal representation because of the difficult situation they're in. And I thought I turned to my wife and I said, you know what, I'm jealous.

That her daily life is service. Yeah. I wish that was my life. Hmm. Did I thought who says that non-profits should be for a betterment of the world, for profits should be for greed? Why can't become buying the two? I'm not like my social impact. Because a lot of bad businesses, they put the banner social impact. They go like, okay, I'll see the reason we are not that profitable is the social impact business. Anyhow, at about that time, I got a call from my company, reply.com.

They said that can you come back? We're dealing with this last there. And our bank loan is being called and the company will go away. I went back with the idea of spending three months to sell the company and move on. During one of those meetings, there was a Chinese buyer who was interested from China. And I stopped showing much interest in that conversation because he was a bottom feeder. And I decided I'm going to buy the company. I'm going to buy the company. This will be the

beginning of the platform I want to build. That would be what I thought in my mind, spiritual capitalism. Yeah. And so I met an offer to the board. That was bigger than anyone else's offer. Should be told, I did not have the cash at that moment in time. But we owed a lot of money to our

I told them that if you find us to buy the company, I will make sure you get all your money back. They trust that we are lender who wanted to foreclose on the business, funded me to buy the company from the investors. And I was able to get back in there, build that company and build one planet. Nice. So that was basically the founder. Sorry, very long answer. No. So basically you bought back that company. Yeah. And then through the profits of that company, you were able to start buying

other companies like acquiring. So I'm big on profits. I feel like building for the future,

there's some point I'll sell the company. Overwhelming majority of startups never get to that point.

Yeah. I want to win today. Yeah. So if there's a tomorrow that I can win tomorrow also, that's awesome. But I want to win today. So as a result, profitability to me is not optional. And in fact, if you talk to my executives, they will tell you that I often don't know the revenue of their businesses, but I know their margins because they don't care about the top line revenue. I don't care about top line. I'm not running a publicly traded company. I only care. And even

if I was running a publicly traded company, which I did till 7 months ago, I do care still about the margins because even then, public companies should ultimately be judged based on their cash flow.

“But yeah, that's what matters to me the most. And to me, if you give me a business that has revenue,”

I'm able to make it profitable because if you're not committed, I'm married to the revenue of a company. Yeah. You're able to manage a business in a manner that can generate cash flow. What is up, young and profitors? If making holiday sales are a big part of your Q4 strategy, listen up. Now, when you think of Walmart, you probably think of their physical stores. But did you know about Walmart Marketplace? It's their e-commerce platform where independent businesses

and entrepreneurs can list their products on Walmart.com and reach millions of shoppers. Right now, you can apply to sell and ship your inventory directly to Walmart fulfillment services so you're completely primed for the peak holiday demand. Even better, you can build your seasonal inventory using customer favorites. These are high demand items that Walmart shoppers are actively searching for right now. When you add eligible customer favorites to your catalog, you can receive up to 100%

off referral fees on those products. Don't sleep on this opportunity to scale your business as season. Get holiday ready with Walmart Marketplace today. Head over to Marketplace. Walmart.com/yap and sign up right now. Again, that's Marketplace.wallmart.com/yap. What's up, young and profitors? One thing I learned from building my own business is that the scariest part of starting is definitely not coming up with the idea. That's the fun, imaginative part. The scary part is realizing,

okay, now I actually need a way to sell this. When I built my online store for Yap Academy, I didn't want to spend weeks figuring out how to code websites, how to figure out payments and

“all that technical stuff. I didn't want to hire for that either. That's why Shopify made so much”

sense for me. You can get your store up and running in just a few steps. Just a couple of days. And if you ever get stuck, sidekick AI can guide you along the way. I'm also obsessed with shoppay because once somebody is ready to buy, you don't want any friction getting in their way. Shop pay lets them pay an easy installments. And it's one of the reasons why the buying experience on Shopify feels so seamless. If you're ready to hear of your first sale today,

head over to Shopify.com/propheting to start your free trial today. That's right, start your free trial at Shopify.com/propheting. What's up, Yap Gang? If you're health routine disappears the second year week gets busy, it might just be too complicated. You need something

easy that you can have in your routine that you'll never forget. For me, AG1 keeps things really simple.

It's a daily health drink that combines a multivitamin pre and biotics superfoods and anti-oxidants in one scoop. AG1 helps maintain energy, supports gut health, immune health, and it's clinically shown to support gut health and fill common nutrient gaps. And with the next gen formula,

“you're getting 75 plus ingredients that are clinically shown to improve key nutrient levels”

within just 3 months. As entrepreneurs have enough on our plates, we've got teams, tools, systems. Your health habits should not just feel like another project on your to-do list. And Yap Gang, I've got a special offer for you. For a limited time, you can save 20% off your

first subscription order of AG1 next gen or AG1 pro at drinkag1.com/propheting. That's drinkag1.com/propheting.

I feel like this is a perfect transition to just talk about turning around company. So essentially what you do at one planet is, do you buy a portion of companies or you buy the all of the

I own it. I don't know. It's a shareholder. So I own that business. Okay. But there are businesses

that we don't own fully. Like an example would be about a year and a half ago, we agreed to turn around the company called Inspirado. Inspirado a publicly traded company was dealing with a disastrous situation. There were a few days from bankruptcy. So in that case, we bought what have the company? Got it. Okay. So you buy whole companies. And your goal is to optimize those companies make them better, make them more profitable, and grow your stake in that company. That's your goal

as a holding company. Correct. Grown my stake or just make my the value of my stake. Not necessarily the percent ownership. The value of your stake. That's right. Okay. And of course, you cannot

“to make your business profitable, you need to have a dual strategy. One is immediately get to a”

point that you're cashier for a positive. But that by itself is not enough. You need to have a plan

for growth. What's your vision? So you need to also have a roadmap for building that business to a point that you can grow. Yeah. And do you have portions of your business that you share across all the companies? Like, it's marketing shared across all the companies. They're like, AI deployment shared across the companies. Yes. So if you look at the businesses, in Sproto, I saw that back in February, which is unlike us. I feel like I'm a farmer kind of entrepreneur.

I'm not a back in ear. I like to build and keep. But that was a special situation and we have to sell it. But the businesses that we have under one planet that we own, we typically share

back office. And actually, AI is a great example that we share that technology we share,

you know, that allows us to shift and balance resources as resources are needed within one of the organizations. And that's very helpful. That keeps our costs down. So like, let's say you acquire a portion of a company or let's say a whole company. Are you often like laying off the HR team, laying off the finance team, laying off the marketing team because you're going to take all that in-house? Yeah. Is that typically what happens? That's actually very interesting. I have

“really, it goes back to my spiritual beliefs. I think that the business has to be stable,”

profitable, number one, because the employees of that business should be able to count on that business for the long term, for their livelihood. So the idea of laying off is something that I really have a major problem with. Great. I love that you feel that way. And you know, so this doesn't mean that the business should remain in a sense, should have bloated expense structure when he can no longer afford it, because that company cannot remain in existence for, for some

employees anyways. But with that in mind, we try very hard to not ever have layoffs. In the case of any case of inspirado, when we invested in that company, and I was going to also act as a CEO for a period of time, I told them in advance that I will not join unless a few things are done,

“and I almost did not care how they would get there, but I wanted to make sure that their expenses”

have already been reduced to a specific amount before I would get there. I got there at the beginning of August of 2014, and even though the company was going through very difficult days for a year and half, we no longer had any layoffs during that period. The challenge with layoffs is that you will also end up losing a lot of good people who decide that this is no longer stable environment for me. And also, when you have a growing company, like for example with my company, I have 55 employees

all over the world, and if for some reason we need to like downsize one part of the company, there's usually at least a place where I can put good employees somewhere else, and they can just learn something else and kind of thrive and like some sort of lateral move or some sort of promotion. So what are you doing when you're acquiring a company, and there's like let's say duplicate roles that you don't need, what are you exactly doing? Yeah, typically over time you're able to address

that. So, you know, I'll give you an example. Right now, we have a few hundred employees, but we know that AI is making us a lot more effective and efficient. So we have a goal. The goal is that our employee base will be down by about 10% in the next 12 months, but that will not happen through layoffs. People leave the company on their own, that's just how it is, and that's a target. Now, if you're off that target, if it turns out they were off by 7%, not 10%, that's okay. It's not

target, but not as something that you have to get to now. Now, if your sustainability and your

“existence relies on you reducing your costs today, we'll be after the what you have to do. Otherwise,”

the company will go bankrupt for all employees, and that is not, there's no balance in that. I actually had a recent conversation. Do you know who Gary Vs? Yes. So I just sat down with him last week, and we were talking about headcount and AI, and there's lots of discussions around a lot of companies are doing these mass layoffs because of AI, and Gary had like a really great analogy. He thinks of his employees as armies and AI as just better weapons. And he's like, so if my

competitor has 1,000 employees, and I have 1,000 employees, and you know, I cut my employees down to 500 with better weapons, but they keep 1,000 employees with the better weapons, who's going to win 1,000 employees that also have the better weapons. So he doesn't think of it as like he needs to cut headcount. He more things of it as it's just my employees have better weapons, and we're just

“going to keep growing the way that we are. There's truth to that. But also I think that the challenge”

can be that those weapons come to play maybe in different departments. So what do you do then? I mean, it is a bit more complicated than the reality. But yeah, I mean at some level, you know, there's something interesting that Elon Musk said recently, said that you think about an economy, and we think about per capita. What's the size of an economy? Well, if we have a lot of robots on AI agents, well, then you can have an unlimited economy, the size of an economy, and you can also

think of it in, you know, but from a business perspective, if a business, let's say my goal was

that a million dollars of revenue per employee, and if I have, I know, 200 AI agents also,

then my revenue can grow much more rapidly without needing to grow the employee base at the same pace. And I think that is that will be more often the case than laying off. Yeah. That you will grow you're able to scale but not that amount. You're hiring. Yes. So we will see that. And what that will do to the future jobs, I really don't know. But my guess is that there will be a bit of a pressure, at least in the short run on jobs for recent grads. Totally, because I just don't have

the experience that they need. Totally. Okay. I want to go into a little game that I'm calling like turnaround quickfire. All right. And since you've got so much experience turning around companies and making them more profitable and increasing your stake in them, I'm going to just

rattle off some categories and you tell me like what are the first things that you look for

in terms of something that's bad practice, what is good practice, and like how you suggest to you like improve things. So people and leadership. So I have a tendency and a commitment to promote people who are one layer below the executive team to executive roles. I think that they are the people who are on their way up. Yep. They are doing things for the first time. They're by far more likely to want to prove themselves. They're going to work hard. And I probably cannot afford them 10 years

from now. So I love putting those people in leadership roles. Without mentioning names, there was a gentle man. I recently made him in charge of one of my business units, a sizable business unit, his 28 years old. If he hears this, he'll know why I'm talking about. And he's looking for

phenomenal job. Nice. He's never been an executive before. Now he runs a business. He's doing a phenomenal

“job. But that's what I look for. And what happens to the existing leadership team when you do that?”

Yeah. Often existing leadership team, when I buy a business or they've been with me for 10 years, 15 years or be with a company for that long, they're packages. And they're able to get that package or move on. Sometimes they want to move on. Or sometimes I wait till they move on. And then I promote from within and have a new talent take over those roles. How do you evaluate? Like let's say there's leadership executives that want to stay? How do you evaluate who stays and who goes?

You know, I rarely ask people to leave. So like, you know, this gentleman who took on that role, the person who had the role before chose to leave on her own. But the way that decision is made is pretty easy. These days, if you are an executive and you're not choosing to embrace AI, it's very hard to know how I'm going to be able to work with you. Because, kind of, you know, being around 30 years from 30 years ago and saying that the internet is not forming. Yeah.

that there's some people who just have a bit of a negative reaction that they don't want to

“think they would AI. Okay, this one's a big one. So customer and revenue quality.”

So I fundamentally believe that if you treat everybody and by that mean everybody, your employees, your, if you have shareholders, your shareholders, your customers, even your competitors, as noble creations, spiritual beings that you're not going to take advantage of, you're not just looking at them as tokens of economic value. But they're looking at them as other spiritual beings that like you are having this experience, this life as we know it. If you treat them in that manner,

the chances are your business was all, will also prosper. Because the chances are the way you treat them few businesses are treating them in that manner. If you look at our business, by our length being our biggest business, we almost, if you look at, if you look at the large accounts that account for 95% of our revenue, we almost have no effort, non-zero cancellations.

“And I think that's because of the way that our team chooses to treat them. Yeah. Even with competition,”

we have a thing we say out of my company. If our success relies on someone else's demise, we're going to get out of business. Yes. It's treat your customers, right? You said something at the beginning of our conversation that you don't care about top line. I don't. So, and how are you evaluating like what product lines to keep or services to keep versus which ones to cut? Yeah, propensity for profitability. The whole how likely is it that business will become profitable,

then we'll also say it's profit margins. Businesses can be on the pressure, but can that be resolved? Yeah. Some businesses can't. Do you have any examples of a business where you are able to kind of shift the focus in terms of what they should focus on for revenue and not help the profitability? Yeah. I'm going to give you an example. When I bought all the web, all the web has 17% margin. And when I talk about margin in my business, I really

talk about revenue minus tax, traffic acquisition costs. So, cost of marketing. And 70%. So, so the company would spend $100 on online marketing would have $17 in margins. The rest of my

businesses, they had north of 55% in margins. So, the first rule is that stop chasing dollars,

chase profits. And so, cut anything that is not profitable source of consumer demand. Cut those. Say no to advertisers who are not willing to pay you enough. That's okay. And build a business that has significant enough margin that if the market sneezes, sneezes, you're not at a business.

“And those are, I think, really important principles for company to keep in mind. So,”

now you fast forward today. Although it has north of 50% margin. And it's because we follow those practices. When initially you follow those practices, revenue goes down. But over time, revenue does come back up. Naturally comes back up because your advertisers, they see that all the volume you're giving me has gone down, they bid up, they get access to more volume, and he takes care of itself. If you've ever read the book by Gordon Bethune, who used to be the CEO

of continental airlines, he said something beautiful. They asked him. They said that how did you make continental airlines profitable so quickly? He said it was easy. Airlines, they have many routes.

They fly to cities with a plain full. They make money. They fly to cities where the plane is always

half empty. They lose money. I stopped flying to cities where we lost money. We became profitable. It was as simple as that. Yeah. I feel like a lot of entrepreneurs you start out with one service and then you sell another thing and another thing and another thing. And then eventually, you're just looking at how much revenue is coming in and you're not realizing that there's one service that takes a bunch of people. You're actually losing money or there's one client who got a big

discount. You're actually losing money. So it's really smart for people who have like lots of things that they're selling lots of clients to go client by client service by service and really break down like how much to the tools cost, how much to the employees cost, and what is really your profit margin per business unit or per service? That's right. Yeah. That's right. So one of the things that's a must for me is that any business I run by 10 a.m. every morning I want to have a report

that gives me the financials for the day before for that specific business basically includes revenue,

margins, bottom line for that business, not profits with basically just margins, compares that to the last three days, same day last week, same day last month, and

cannot be automated, meaning that I want a receiver report that the business, that the executive in charge put together and sent it to me by 10 a.m. every morning. The reason for that is when people start putting those reports together, they pay a lot more attention because things stand out. Oh my god. Yeah. You know, I missed these three things and I've seen that when they do that,

the business starts improving almost immediately. So when I buy business, that's the first thing I do.

I want daily report. I love that. I'm that daily report changes everything. And are you also, are you looking at the whole business as a whole, or are you looking at the

“different product lines or services also so that you can recommend how to optimize them?”

So I look at every business in that manner and then there's one person in charge of aggregate them all that sounded to me before noon every day. And, you know, we have an office in Armenia. So they start working earlier, given the time difference. So I start getting reports when I wake up in the morning, they start coming in and I love that because that allows me to very quickly,

just on my phone, take a look at the report and see how we're doing. And they also know that if

yesterday was really good, they need to say, why? And what are they doing to sustain it? If yesterday was really bad, why? And what are they doing to fix it? Since you own all the companies, or at least have a stake in all of them, if some companies doing like really, really well, and one company has a lot of potential, do you ever like take money from

“one company and fund the other company or do you keep them all separate?”

I mean, when they're owned by one planet, or then absolutely, I mean, we don't have any other shareholders, so the money that is made by these businesses can be shared to not just invest back in the businesses that we own, but could also invest in other startups, which we do that also. So does the executive teams on the companies that you own also have equity or now? They do have what I call distribution rights, that if the company is sold while they are

or both public, while they are a part of the business, they get that portion. And they also we also do profit share. So executives often don't control the profits or the EBITDA of the business, but they control the contribution margin of their own business. So they get the percentage of the contribution margin that they earn. Okay, how about pricing and product mix? Do you ever

“look at how companies are pricing their services and products? Or do you not get into that detail?”

I don't get into that. I feel like the pricing is a maximum of buyers willing to pay. So negotiate and the best you can, and don't try to take every dollar out of it, let them be happy. Yeah. Okay, this next one, I know that you have a really good case study for it, marketing and customer acquisition. So you actually started a company. I believe it was called Purple Tie. Oh, God. Yes. Talk to us about that company and you did economics and what

went wrong? So Purple Tie was a bad idea. In the late '90s, I have some made some money from all the webs. So you can imagine I probably had bought a few nice suits, you know, spend money on a nicer wardrobe and then the dry cleaners were really bugging me because they would often mess up the stuff that I would take to them. And at the same time, I'm really dating myself. I had heard Wayne Hosenga, who's the founder of Auto Nation. He had also found a blockbuster video, which I don't

think anyone who's watching or listening has heard of blockbuster videos. I'm sure they have. But moving nights, we see blockbuster video, we go back to the video and you rent a video. And until blockbuster video, there are mom and pops that own the video shops. Blockbuster opened up one store every eight hours for eight years and ended up owning that market. It became a huge

monthly billion dollar business. So I saw Wayne Hosenga speak a few times during my auto

web days because he founded Auto Nation and the Auto Nation was a big client of ours and so on. And I thought, I love that story. And I'm like 28 years old. I feel like I got to invite as such by now. I took a company public. I was just doing this. So I decided I want to fix a dry cleaning business. And I started building this 100,000 square feet facilities for environmentally clean, dry cleaning, high quality, dry cleaning, and laundry and so on, massive,

massive operation. And we build this spoken hop model to have our trucks connected to a neighbor hood, so pick up from your home, deliver to your office and vice versa. Anyhow, we build that.

million. I raised, and this is 1990, 1990. I did not raise 400 million. But we, and then I

had made a money from all the websites, you know, I put my own money into that business. But any other ballmine is that ultimately 2001 came about and the dot com crash happened, and I could no longer raise more money. And we ended up shutting down that business. But what really caused that business, I think, to not prosper. Number one, the dot com crash. So we could not raise money. So that was it. But number two, I think that economies of scale for us did not exist. We introduced too many

expense layers to the business. If I could do it all over again, not that I would, but if we could, every dry cleaning shop uses their dry cleaning equipment only for a couple of hours a day.

“There's a lot of, in a sense, unused potential at existing facilities. So you need to put a”

service layer on top of it, but they can use the existing facilities and never invest in the

infrastructure. Yeah. So there is potentially something there. Actually, I interviewed this other guy. He's the owner of Fransy. It's like a franchise platform. And his first business, he tried to do exactly what you're saying. He tried to work with laundromats, dry cleaners to do this service. But the quality control was very difficult. And he had to shut that business down too. So I was thinking you like, damn, this is a very hard business. It's a very hard business. And also not just a

difficult business, but also it's difficult on the health of those who operate. You know, the people who own dry cleaning shops, if you talk to them, you should have kidney problems.

Many of them lose a kidney. So it's not a fun business to be in. Yeah. And how about the customer

acquisition cost? If I remember correctly, it was very expensive to acquire customers for this dry cleaning business. It's expensive. However, it isn't a newty business. How often people change their dry cleaners? They usually switch when they move. And in this case, if moving did not

“mean you have to stop working with us because we were everywhere. Yeah. But so it is expensive to”

acquire. But I think that that can be made up for. I think the bigger issue is really the idea of building density that if you have a service that relies on delivery on trucks on the road, you need to have a lot of density. So the trucks are not driving half an hour from one drop off to the next. If you have a neighborhood where you can do all your drop-offs, then the margins can be good. So sticking on customer acquisition costs and things like that,

byrling is like a lead gen company. So how are you like, what is your guidance on how much just spend on customers and just any sort of guidance you have about customer acquisition costs? Yeah. I mean, in my business, I don't want to spend more than 50% on acquiring your customer. But if it's 50% then to me, I don't have a marketing budget. Spend as much as you can, as long as you're able to maintain margin. Often people come to me and they say that,

you know, what if I reduce the margin from 50% to 30%, I'm able to get access to more customers. And in aggregate will end up with more margins. My answer is no. I want to hold on to margins that they're significantly enough that if the market sneezes, we don't catch a cold. We don't have a business. So that's my rule. But every business has a, you know, should have their own rule that what's the, what's the right margin for them? Yeah. Clearly, if you're selling a car,

you cannot spend half the value of that car, you know, in marketing. But, you know, you decide what is the amount that you're willing to spend. That's good advice. Okay, how about contracts,

“vendors overhead? Where does bloat tend to hide in companies in this way?”

You know, it's interesting. Most companies that have been around for more than I would say five years and they have had at least a few executives or no longer there. The chances are that they have layers of expense that nobody knows about. And so I think that there's a bit of a cleaning that needs to happen every few years that you literally want to have someone and I call that person the transformation officer that goes through everything to make sure that everything you have

you need. There are no two different vendors that one of them could do the job of both. There is no preferred vendor that an executive who's no longer with you signed up, but nobody cares about.

Spurado that the company literally had tens of millions of dollars of accumulated expenses

“that were not having any impact on the business. And we cut 45 million dollars. Wow.”

We think a couple of months. Really interesting. And how about like Elisa? Sometimes Elisa's need to be cut, right? Well, in Spurado we had because one of the ways we made money was that we had all these luxury homes all over the place that we had Elisa's 10 year Elisa's. And many of these homes they not have enough occupancy through our platform to ever make money. So getting rid of Elisa's can be complicated because usually there's a contract associated with

them. But Elisa's can be very problematic because not only they make your piano look very ugly, they make your balance sheet look very ugly. Okay. Let's go through. I really want to get to

spiritual capitalism. But first, I want to see if there's any other case studies that we need to

go through. I feel like we actually went through most of them. I do want to talk about ring partner was an example of when you bought a capability. How does it understand when you decide to build something internally and when you decide to acquire a company that just does it and like what's your decision making around that? I feel like I'm getting too old to build stuff new. So I like acquire. I like acquire because I love the way that young talent, young entrepreneurs

think about the new tools, the new things that can be built. The vision that I could have at 30 years ago, I just don't have today. So as a result buying companies is very, it can be very interesting. But there are also companies that we can buy that we can make them better because we have the infrastructure that they just don't have. We have the technology resources. We have online marketing capabilities that they say or now AI that they simply may not have. So that could

be another reason to buy a company. Now having said that I still am an entrepreneur. I like to build stuff. Right now we're building a new company called Quaramarkable. Quaramarkable will be a luxury travel company. And I love that industry. I fell in love with it when I took over in Sprado. And I sold it. And I felt that there's a better business model that we can employ. Yeah. So now you're starting that business from scratch. Now that you've been a founder for

so many, you were a founder previously. You've had these companies for so many years. What are some of the top things that you're going to do differently with quite remarkable since you're building this one from scratch? Now, of course, I come from a place of privilege. Yes. Where as an entrepreneur today, I'm not the same person who was, you know, just eating potatoes and had nothing else back then. You know, I'm able to invest in my business. That makes life a lot

easier. I have an infrastructure. I have a CFO. I've got a head of marketing and I've got to have a product from day one that they can help me navigate things. So I have the vision, but there are

a lot of amazing people who are building that. And so I don't want to compare me to the hard work

of first-time entrepreneurs. They're fundamentally different. And they're putting their blood and sweat and everything into building those businesses. So I'm not that, and we need to really have a soft heart, you know, a soft spot for that. But what I do differently is that, like I said,

“I really think about profitability from day one. I don't think about building to sell because”

I'm not building to sell. And so as a result, I'm not thinking about multiples. I'm not thinking about how do I build so VCs will fund. I don't care about that. I don't want funding. So that gives me a bit of a freedom to build, I think, in a better manner, in a more lasting manner. Like, I'll give you an example. We have decided that quite a markable when it will launch. It will do marketing. We'll bring onboard 100 travelers. Then we'll stop all marketing.

We'll make sure those 100 travelers will become fanatics about their business. We'll rave about the business. We fully take care of them. Once we know that we accomplish that, then we open up. We'll keep doing that until we get to 1,000 travelers. We want to make sure we have 1,000 ambassadors out there because they love the business. But that will slow us down. That will slow down growth. But that will allow us to build a brand that I think will be

proud of. That's really awesome. I feel like that's such a good strategy. Why don't we move on to

“spiritual capitalism? I know that's very important to you. So how would you define this philosophy?”

Yeah. So, you know, living in the U.S. and having my background as a refugee coming to this country, because of religious persecution and so on, and finding the goodness that America had

racism, for example, is probably the most challenging issue in America. You think about

“political issues in this country, the extremes of left and right. I call it, you know, to me,”

there is like these alliances that they're designed for greed and for power, but they don't really help anybody. You look at Wall Street and how greed has been really, you know, it's the Milton Freeman version of capitalism. There's all about maximization and accumulation of ones ability to consume more and more and more and when enough is enough. Now, I got to be careful because when I talk about these things, extreme right wants to call me a socialist. I'm not. I'm a

capitalist. And then extreme left calls me a capitalist because I built a company taking a public. It was a unicorn and so on. So I'm like, no, I'm just somebody who wants to show that it is possible to build good businesses that their ripple effect leaves the world ever so slightly

better place. So the first thing is that as I mentioned that earlier, looking at every human as a

noble, spiritual being, I'm not going to look at you as a token of economic value. If I stop doing that, then the whole idea of greed at any cost, maximization might well that any cost kind of goes away because my relationship with the person sitting across from me is when way beyond this physical experience that we're all having in this world. And I want to treat you differently. But I think that it is about the betterment of the world. That we all want to be an agent for that.

And I think when we employ the right practices in our businesses, the chances are that we'll be

a lot more fulfilled. We'll be a lot more joyful as we build our businesses.

You talked about how to treat our customers. What are the ways that you employ this with your employees? Yeah. So our culture is very important to us. And there are a few values that we have that are not negotiable. One is that our executives are expected to lead with love. And a lot of people have questions about the love part that that's a very strong word.

“But I think that is actually a very important word that we need to have. And when we say lead,”

with love, it includes leading internally and externally with that. The other one is truthfulness. I find truthfulness to be a spiritual value and truthfulness at any cost and 100% truthful at all time. Imagine you're fighting a legal case. Truthfulness could cause you to lose that case. That's okay. Be truthful all the way. And don't embellish things. So that does an important part of our business. No gossip ever in our business. About anyone. We just don't want to have that.

I think that the tongue can be a small drink fire. And we want to be careful what we say. And the ripple effect of that. We want to make sure that as a company we are giving. We're giving sacrificially. So so much that it affects our cash position so much that it affects our financial decisions for our company.

“And I think that automatically also puts a cap on how big a company can get. Who said that”

global domination for business is a good thing for humanity? I don't necessarily believe that. I think that if I'm building a great business that's taking care of its community, its employees, its customers, who says that just because I can. I have to keep making it bigger and bigger and bigger till I have built them monopoly. But I think that all of those things we do as humanity does because we have kind of lost our connection with what truly matters. And I do believe that we all

collectively need a bit of a spiritual transformation to realize that all of this will end at any moment. And what will remain is how we feel about what will be accomplished and how we left the world. Yeah. Can you give us a concrete example of a way that you lost money in a business to actually do better for the employees or do better for the world? And then similarly how doing better for your employees or customers or society helped you gain profits? Yeah. So I have lost a lot over

the years. The biggest loss I ever had was when I took all the web public and my brother and I

almost all of it. Wow. And if it wasn't for my faith, the chances are I would have felt that as a senior as a big loss that would have probably affected my psyche. Maybe I would have been depressed. Yeah. I didn't feel that way ever at all. I felt like I was grateful because I was still better off than the situation I was at prior to it. Yeah. Even though a lot of VCs would ask me,

“"Oh, how do you feel? You're okay?" I'm like, "Yes, I'm totally fine. It's all right." But I think that”

the key is, if you think about the businesses that we have built, even when they were suffering,

my employees have always known that express percentage of our profits always go to our non-profit

causes. So we have a non-profit called one-planet, one-people at one-planet and the primary focus of one-planet, one-people are two things. One is education with the focus and education of girls and women all over the world and the second is racial healing in the U.S. And so a push on our profits every month goes to that foundation and we spend it everywhere from Montgomery Alabama on some of the efforts of Brian Stevenson, like the building of the monument for

I think it's called Peace and Justice, as well as in the Gambia where we have after school

“education programs for girls that we support. And when I say these things, it's not just sending money”

with the Gambian operation or employees go there. They spend time there. We kind of like adopted. We want that to become part of who we are. We don't know how to do it. We don't know how to do anything in Africa, but some of us doing good work and we want to be a part of that. And we are grateful that allows to be a part of that because that brings a lot of meaning to our everyday jobs as well. But again, the employee is knowing that this causes matter and the company is willing to give

sacrificially this causes. And so is it one planet employees and like one planet part of your profit goes to philanthropy or all the companies underneath you also are associated with your charity organizations? Yeah, so the businesses that we all, if I don't know something,

“I cannot control it. But if we own them, they all collectively. When I say one planet,”

I mean, including them all. Okay, okay. And but businesses that we invest in, we ask the founders. If we're investing early on, so the business is still shaping, we ask the founders to sign a

document called for the betterment of the world. And this document basically communicates with them

that we're investing in you. But we believe you have a lot for humanity and because of your love for humanity, there's certain things that we hope you will do. Not because of contractual obligation, you're going to do because you want to leave a positive mark behind. And all of our founders need to sign that. Otherwise, we will not be messed. So as we close out this interview, what is the message that you want to share with the thousands of entrepreneurs are going to be

tuning into this episode in terms of how they should be building their companies? Yeah, I mean, there are a few things I would say. One is that make sure that what you're doing is meaningful from day one. Don't wait till your business is successful. And then you say, now I'm going to spend my weekends go do good work in the world. Do it today. Because guess what, overwhelming

majority of businesses never have an exit, never have that big pay day. So unless you make that

part of your life today, a coherent part of your life, then you're waiting for for some date in the future to have that joy and fulfillment. So that's number one. Number two, the rule is never blocked. Ever. I don't care if you're an immigrant. I don't care if you're a black. I don't care if you're a woman. Whatever are the challenges that you're dealing with because the market has never been kind to you. None of that means that the rule is blocked. So don't let

those who have made life difficult for you to win. Yeah. Find the way around it. There's always an America. Absolutely. You know, I mean, as you, as you probably know, only 2% of the investment money and sales companies go so woman. And actually, in our company, over half of our money is invested in woman entrepreneurs. Because also woman are great entrepreneurs. Anyhow, but that is the second thing that I highly highly recommend to any entrepreneur. And the third one is

I think you're a profit. It's not exit. The chances are if you're building a successful

But you will also have an opportunity to exit if you choose to. So, you know, why not?

“Go down that path. And the last question that I want to ask you actually goes back to”

profit because this is how we profit. You mentioned earlier when you have a business, you wanted to be profitable by day one or a profitable day one. So what are some of your principles or what are some of the things that we need to think about that you want to leave us with in terms of how we can be more profitable? Yeah. Now, of course, it takes a little bit, a little bit of time

“to get to profits. Yeah. But how you become profitable from day one should be part of your strategy”

not something for the future. So, I would never ever want to invest in a company or build a business

with the idea that has to keep raising money. I want to know the path for profit building for that business from day one. So, the number one thing that I will look at is how disciplined you are with your hiring because at the beginning, people cost as a big part of that. And number two, how you are basically signing up for resources and how frugal you are with the way that you're spending

money. I like to invest in founders who are frugal and they just don't think that money will always

be cheap. I can always raise money and out of the vices will always love me somehow and they'll give me more cash. Yeah. Well, Pam, this was such an awesome interview. I feel like we learned so much. Thank you so much for your time and your wisdom. Where can everybody learn more about you

“and everything that you do? I know that you also have a book if you want to shut out your book.”

Yeah. You can find me on all social media platforms, PIM's a money and my book is called Crossing a Desert embracing life's difficult journeys and message me. I typically respond. I may be late

at times, but they do respond. Amazing. Well, thank you so much. Thank you. And that young

improfters is how Piam and one planet group profit. Today's big lesson. Don't just chase revenue. Chase profitable growth. New your margins cut what's dragging down the business and put your money where it can create the most value both economically and for society because the goal isn't just to grow. It's to grow in a way that makes your business stronger and healthier for yourself and your community. Thanks for listening to Haley Profit. The young improfiting series where

real entrepreneurs share real numbers, real margins, and the real story of how their businesses actually work. I'm Haley Taha, and I'll see you next time.