Jean Chatzky: Women Are Getting Richer. Here’s What It Means for Money and Business | Finance | YAPClassic

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you can find all of our incredible deals in the show notes or at Young Improveding.com/deals. When women make more money, we see that they take on more of their responsibilities at home if you are in a relationship where your partner can't support your successor doesn't want to support your success. Then it's not going to work. Being a homeowner is a helpful way to save money over the long term. When you own your building equity in this house, and that is a form of forced

savings. But if you're not going to be someplace for five years, I don't think you should buy. You just have $100,000 cash. Where would you put it? What I'm doing with that kind of money right now is Yap gang. It is such a great time to be a woman. More women are becoming breadwinners, building successful companies and creating wealth on their own terms. And as a female entrepreneur, I see this shift happening all around me. So today we're unlocking the Young Improveding

Archives for my conversation with Jean Chaske. She's a financial journalist and the founder of CEO her money. Jean breaks down why women growing economic power isn't just changing our bank accounts. It's reshaping relationships, businesses, and even the way products are designed. And she explains why the next big step is making sure women feel just as confident investing in their money as they

“do earning it. I learned a lot from this one, and I think you will too. Let's dive in with Jean.”

Jean, welcome to Young Improveding Podcast. Thanks, Hala. Thanks so much for having me. I'm so excited for this conversation. I think it's going to be so insightful for my audience. I really love your work. And you didn't really start off in finance, which I thought was interesting. And I'd love to get some backstory for you in terms of your journalism background. You

are an English major. How did you end up first getting interested in finances?

I got interested quite honestly because my own financial life was a bit of a mess. And simultaneously, the journalism job that I got was sort of business adjacent. I started my career as an editorial assistant at a magazine that no longer exists called working woman.

“And got to report some stories on things like business and careers and management trends”

and investing. And I was interested enough in them to try to get a job in personal finance, business journalism when I left that job, which turned out to be really really difficult. Because all the big business magazines on the planet, and I applied to all of them, kind of thought working woman was a joke. And finally, I got a little bit of advice that what I needed wasn't MBA. But I didn't have really any interest in going back to school

at that point. So instead, I got a job on Wall Street. I worked in equity research for a couple of years. I learned investing inside and out. And when I came back out, I was able to re-enter journalism, join Forbes from there to smart money. And from there, I ended up on the today's show for 25 years.

Amazing. So when I looked at your career journey, it reminded me a lot of my own in terms

that you skill stacked to become an entrepreneur. So I called the skill stack entrepreneurship. We're basically, you worked for other people. And you gained all these skills over the years. And then you became an entrepreneur, basically putting these skills together. And then you came out with her money. And nobody could do her money better than you. Because you had all the experiences to put together this unique offering to put together this awesome website, this awesome podcast.

And you had all the background in the skills, the writing, the journalism, the broadcasting, the knowledge of that actual topic. It's a lot like what I did with YAP Media and my podcast now are going to my social agency. So I'd love for you to just talk to us about that for all these

sort of use that in your entrepreneurship journey. I was one of the original side gigers. Right?

“I think I had a side hustle before it was called a side hustle. Pretty much always because journalists”

make very little money. Or at least when you're starting out as a journalist, you make very little money. So originally my side hustle was teaching SATs. But as I started to become a stronger writer and a stronger content creator, I was able to hustle in my own industry. Just by doing that, I picked up a lot of the adjacent skills that I then needed to launch this business. Once I was on the today show in particular, a lot of doors started to open. These were the days where

everybody was watching the today show. And so I got a lot of offers to go out and speak to

write books to consult for different companies in the employee benefits departments, where they were

“trying to improve the financial health of their employees. And I didn't become an entrepreneur”

until a full scale entrepreneur until 20 years down the road. When I left my last magazine job, I actually got fired from my last magazine job because I got in a little too expensive for their payroll. And I looked at all of the other things that I was doing. I was doing radio for Oprah over here. And I was doing speaking here. And I was on my tenth book over here. And I had three other clients over here. And I thought, why am I getting another job? Like I have five other jobs.

I would just need to put them together. Her money as a company came along after her money as a podcast. I was doing some work with fidelity investments. They were our original launch sponsor.

The fabulous team there basically said, "What else can we do together?" And I was like,

"How about a podcast?" So we launched and very quickly it became apparent to me that we were growing a community of like-minded women who wanted to learn about money. And her money, the company launched around that. Your podcast is super popular. Your blog is very well-known. I've heard about her money for many years now. You also have like so many books and you've just become such an accomplished author. And a majority of her content is actually geared towards women.

So I want to talk to that for a minute because I know that all the advice you give is applicable to all genders, right? It doesn't necessarily need to be just for women. But we do need to understand why women have traditionally had an uphill battle when it has come to their finances. Can you give us some insight in terms of the gender wage gap? And I think a lot of people have the assumption that that's not really a thing anymore. So can you talk to us about if it is

a thing in 2024? It's a thing. It has budged, which is good over the last like year and a half. It's moved up a smidge so that at this point women earn 83 and a half cents to every dollar that a white man earns. But the American Association of University Women say we are going to be

“halfway through the next century before this gap actually closes. That's how slowly it's moving.”

And it's worse for women of color. And the problem with the gender wage gap is that when you combine it with all of the other factors that women deal with in terms of earning money and growing money for retirement, they put us behind women or the ones to take breaks from work to care for kids and care for older parents. We saw that in the pandemic in spades but it's been true all along. Because we take those breaks, we have less money growing in those retirement accounts. We earn fewer

social security credits. We get to the end of the line. We've got a smaller nest egg and then we have to make the money last longer because we go and we outlive men by six, seven years. So it's an uphill battle, but you're right in terms of the advice being gender neutral. There are not a ton of differences in the advice that somebody would give to a man versus a woman, Jane Bryant Quinn who is one of my mentors and a leading personal finance journalist just a trailblazer.

And she's 100% right about that. The problem is that women sometimes don't feel as safe as we

“need to feel to ask the questions that we need answered in order to get us to take the steps”

to start investing, to put our money to work, to ask for that raise. And what I've found in the reason that I launched her money was that when I was in a group, a room full of all women given some sort of a talk and I would get to the Q&A section, the hands would just fly up in the air. And when I was in a mixed group, the response was a lot more muted. Women really held back and didn't want to share as much. And so what I set out to create was a safe space. But am I going

to tell women that they should buy in video as we did for our investing club two years ago and tell men that they should not, no, absolutely not. Yeah, such a advice. And by the way, that stock has done really well because I haven't to. Yeah, bam, I genuinely feel ahead of the

“curve with AI for the first time because the last year I completely felt the opposite. I felt”

so behind and stressed because I felt like everybody was using AI and I couldn't see the value from it. And I was using Chachi BT, like a search engine, like a chatbot, to draft an email here or there. But I wasn't using it effectively and I knew that had to change. So I went to mind stones,

AI breakthrough weekend with my business partner Kate. I didn't have high expectations. I thought

like I wasn't going to learn much and I was so wrong. I learned so many foundational skills that I use every day. Everything that I touch now, yeah, media involves AI. I use AI for everything that I do in my work. And mind stone gave me the tools to actually make AI effective and gain value from AI. And in fact, I built an app in 15 minutes at this retreat. And it's an app that I still use every single day and I built so many apps since then and that in itself just like getting

the experience and overcoming the fear of using AI and using all the different AI tools and like a community setting was really helpful for me. And when I came back from the retreat, me and Kate were like, we've got to put our team through this training. Like we can't be the only ones who know how to use AI effectively now. And so mind stone has this AI competency program. It's a four week totally online training that's super affordable. And we put the entire team 60 people through this

program. And the response has been amazing. The productivity and the efficiency has been absolutely incredible. And it's all thanks to mind stone and the tools that we learned. They've got their own proprietary tool. It's called Rebel. It connects our email, our Slack, our meetings. The training is tool agnostic. You can use any tool that you want, cloud, chatchubt, whatever. It doesn't really matter. It's the actual foundational principles of how to use AI correctly and get the actual

“value that you want from AI. That's what it teaches you. And if you guys want to experience mind stone”

and take their four week AI competency program, Yapp listeners get 10% off at experience.mindstone.com/yapp that's experience.mindstone.com/yapp. So a lot of my listeners are business owners. We a lot of them are, you know, people of power. We have employees. We have our own small businesses. What is our responsibility when it comes to the gender wage gap? I think our responsibility is to level it. And it has to come from the employers because if employers don't take a look at our payrolls,

don't take a look at how we are treating our employees irrespective of gender irrespective of race.

These gaps are never going to close. And so we have to get really honest about who's doing

what work and how much are they being compensated for. And it's not a matter of need. It's a matter of the work that we need them to do. But it's not a matter of our perception of the money that they need to take home, which is how it used to work. You know, years back, you would hear conversations where a boss would tell a female employee. Well, of course, he's, of course, John is going to get paid more than you do. He's the breadwinner. And he's got multiple mouths to feed at home. We're

now in an era where more women are the breadwinners. And if you look out to 2030 and into the 2030s, women are actually expected to control the lion's share of the wealth and the spending in this

more qualifications than men in many, many instances. And it's also because of the way that the transfer

“of wealth, the 41 trillion dollar transfer of wealth that is going on as we speak, is playing out.”

Women are inheriting twice and not because our parents prefer us to our brothers. But we're inheriting twice because if we have brothers, chances are we split the family pie with them. But then when our husbands die, we inherit that money as well. So good. And this is really, really fascinating to me. I really want to like spend a lot of time here on these social and economical changes that are going on.

So I got some incredible stats from your work. And I'm going to rattle some off and ask some

questions about them. I'd love for you to really just give us as much insight as much color as you have about them. So the first one is for every 100 men who graduated from college last year, 132 women graduated. Can you talk about how this really snowball into various social demographic economic changes? Absolutely. If you look at the types of jobs that college grads hold

“and the types of jobs that you need to have a college degree in order to get, they tend to be”

the higher paying jobs. We are seeing some movement in trades, in apprenticeships, in vocational

programs. I grew up in Wheeling, West Virginia, in a high school that had a big welding department

in the basement. And I believe that we need to see more of these opportunities. But there's no question that a college degree helps you land a better salary. And when you look at the lifetime earnings of a person with a college degree versus one who doesn't have one, it's it's hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not more. And the way that that then drives change in society is that you have these families where you tend to have not just one, but two

college educated people because college educated people often meet in college. And those two income college educated households are going to be making significantly more money in many cases than those who are not college educated. And what we wind up with is just a bigger income disparity in this country than we then we have right now. And as you know, it's already problematic. So we look at it and we see these things starting to march in that direction. The other problem, though,

and I hear of this from from my daughter and from from people younger than her is that if you are on a college campus and your heterosexual and you want to date, it's gotten an awful lot harder.

I definitely want to talk about that. But let's hold that thought for a second. Let's talk about

how by 20, 28 women will control 75% of discretionary spending around the world by 20, 30, 66% of America's wealth will be with women. You alluded to this a bit, but what are some of the factors of why women are going to have so much more money in a future years? So it's education and it's the transfer of wealth. Those are the two big factors that are playing into this. But when you follow the breadcrumbs, what you see is that the fact that women are making these purchasing

decisions changes things, it changes, if you look at cars, it's going to change the way that cars are designed because they're going to be designed with women buyers more in mind. You'll have a better place to park that bag that you carry around on your shoulder all the time. The seat will be adjustable in a different way so that you'll be able to see over the front of the hood if you're height-challenged in the way that I am. It'll change the design of homes. Single women buy many

“more homes than single men. They've become a very important segment of home buyers and we are”

seeing homes designed with the things that women want in mind. So it's not just a matter of the fact that financial advisors are a little bit up in arms about this because they have seen studies that show that when the male spouse and a family dies 70-ish percent of women are likely to

but it's going to change the look and feel and design of a lot of products. Oh my gosh, so interesting. You know what you just reminded me of. So I took my mom to a

tree. I took her to King Coon on vacation and I got his first class tickets. We only brought

“checked bags and I remember me and her trying to put our bags up on the airplane and we're”

both petite. We had to help each other and actually my mom had accidentally slipped in the bag fell and it was so embarrassing and it kind of caused a commotion and in my head I was thinking, I just paid over $2,000 for these tickets and I was expected as a five-foot-one girl to put up a bag with my 70-year-old mother by ourselves and I was thinking like, how ridiculous is this? Like, who are these airplanes designed for? It's obviously not considering petite women, you know?

Yeah, it's definitely not and maybe if they start to see that more women are buying their own

business class seats, that'll be something that will change or, you know, the folks who make the

away bag that we all seem to carry will come up with some sort of a oyster to help us get it up in that in that luggage compartment because I have the same trouble that you do. So where's part about flying for me? Okay, ladies, girl to girl. If your bra or shapewear is making you uncomfortable

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women are single right now? Look, there's a lot of research on when a woman is the primary breadwinner and whether or not it causes strife in relationships. Generally, if when a man and a woman form their relationship, the woman is already the higher earner, then that status quote doesn't rock the boat too much. It's when there's a shift in the dynamic over the course of the relationship that impacts the balance of power in the relationship in other ways that things go a little bit

sideways. And that's where we start to see breakdown in communication. That's where we start to see women compensating for the fact that they make more money. I mean, I'm sure that you have seen this research hall it. It's so troubling. When women make more money, we don't see that they offload more of the responsibilities at home. We see that they take on more of the responsibilities at home. And the logic behind that is that we feel somehow bad about that and that we have to make nice

to our spouses ego. So of course, we're going to make dinner and do the grocery shopping and take care of the kids. And that's where burnout comes from. And that's where anger comes from. And in some cases, that's where divorce comes from. I want to talk to you about the availability

“of suitable partners for a successful woman. I think you were talking, you're like kind of”

kind of eluding to this when you were talking about your daughter. And I'm going to get a little

bit personal here. So I'm in my 30s. And I have no kids. I'm not married. I'm literally never single.

I can get a boyfriend like this. You know, first date everybody wants to be my boyfriend. It's kind of honestly overwhelming. I feel like it's because a lot of guys that I date, they seem like they're cool with a successful woman. And they're successful too. They're all like, you know, executives or

of getting insecure. Like you're going to, you know, you're going to outgrow me is what they think, right? You're going to outgrow. And so we end up breaking up. Now, there's a couple of things that have recently opened my eyes. Number one is Marshall Goldsmiths. I have a social media agency. He's one of my longtime LinkedIn clients. He's a leadership coach. He's an obvious. Okay,

cool. Yeah. So he is always trying to give me married. And he's always telling me like,

“"Halla, this happened to my daughters. Like you have to marry down." Like you can't be worried”

about marrying up. You've got to marry down. You'll find a great guy. He doesn't have to be richer than you. And like you've just got to marry down. And for a while, I was like trying to find somebody like that was like equal. That way I could grow it. But like the other thing that really opened my eyes is that I started this podcast network. And I've got a lot of women who like, I feel like I'm going to be like in, you know, few years like Jenna Kutcher, Amy Porterfield,

Kelly Roach, she was my social client. And they all have either they've like retired. There

husbands. They have house dads basically. And they're, or there, their husband like works with them

or for them, right? And that made me realize because their families are so happy. And I was like, well, maybe I'm just like looking at this in the wrong way. Like maybe I should feel like almost not like a man. But like that, like, I just need to find a great partner. They don't need to have, you know, the career that I want them to have. It's more about the person, right? So I just love your thoughts on this. So I am married for the second time. And I agree with that. First of all,

“I think, and, and no disrespect to Marshall. But when I, when he says you have to marry down,”

I think that that's the wrong word. I think that you have to marry and date different. Yeah, you need a partner who is going to be really supportive of your efforts and your career,

because, you know, let's just be honest about this. And I felt the same way when I first had

kids, my, my former father-in-law said, well, when are you stopping working? Because all of his other daughters and daughters in law had stopped working. And I said, yet, not me. You know, I'm not, I'm not doing that. We, we will, we will figure out how these kids will have care during the day. And, and the way that we did it was that my ex husband didn't travel for work. And I did. And, and that, you know, that balanced us out for a very, very long time.

If you are in a relationship where the egos are clashing or where your partner can't support your success or doesn't want to support your success, then it's not going to work. It's just, it's just going

“to fail. Have you ever seen the movie Beautiful Girls? No. Okay, you have to watch the movie”

Beautiful Girls. It's, it's, it's old 20 years, probably, Natalie Portman and Anna Beth Gish and Timothy Hutton and, uh, meth Dylan, a whole bunch of people. But the, the part of that movie that sticks with me is there's a very successful woman in it. She's dating Timothy Hutton. And he is a piano player in a bar who also happens to be an accountant. And he's been putting a whole lot of pressure on himself to, like, get a real accounting job so that he can keep up with her. And finally, she just said,

musicians are sexy. Like, accounts are not sexy. Musicians are sexy. Giving him the permission to continue to do this thing that he enjoyed and continue to bring that sexy energy to their relationship. Which is what she needed from him. And so that's the balance, I think, that you're, you're looking for. There's a lot of lean-in, Cheryl Sandberg's book that people have dismissed over the past number of years. I think the thing that really holds up from that book is is the importance that

she put on selecting your partner. You know, she picked a guy that she knew was going to let her be her and let her do the work that she wanted to do and help them create a life where that was going to be possible. And that's all. Yeah. And I just feel like, like, more generally for advice everybody to for everybody tuning in. I just feel like it's just harder to find, like, traditional roles and partners anymore for men and for women. And I just would love to understand, like,

like women in their relationships when everything sort of getting switched around in terms of who's

“the breadwinner? I just feel like it's so difficult for us today. I think the way that you do it is”

by knowing yourself and knowing your partner and closing ranks, right? This is your business and it's your partner's business and it's not your mother's business or your mother and law's business or your friends business or Instagram's business, right? It is, it is nobody's business but yours. And if it's working for the two of you, then who the hell cares, right? What anybody else has to say, you just have to respect the boundaries that you've created with the two of you and

what that allows you to do? Look, I'm the breadwinner in my marriage. I have been for many years.

My husband is largely retired. He works about 15 hours a week these days. He's older than I am and he had an incredibly successful career but the fact that I out earned him, he could care less. You know, he knows the value that he brings to our marriage. I certainly know the value that he brings to our marriage and it's nobody else's business really despite the fact that I'm talking about it on your podcast. I love it. Thanks, June, for all of that. Okay, so women are getting richer.

Can you talk to us about how women are going to treat this new found wealth compared to how men

traditionally have treated wealth? Then have traditionally invested it and women traditionally

have been slow to the party. If you again, and you pulled out a whole bunch of statistics, I'm grateful for that. But one of my favorites is that women keep about 70% of our assets in cash. Men keep about 60%. It's a really big and important difference because investing our money is

“the only way that we are going to make sure that it is working as hard as we are working ourselves.”

And so what we're starting to see is women move into the ranks of being investors, wanting to be investors, wanting to learn about investors, whether you've got all your money in a 401k where you put it in a target date fund and you let that fund do its thing or you're buying individual stocks. We want to learn. I was telling you about my investing club. I run this investing club with Karen Feinerman, who is one of the panelists on fast money on CNBC. She's a

hedge fund manager. You would love for her. She's so brilliant. And we're teaching 300 women and growing how to invest every other Monday night on Zoom. And we pick stocks together and we talk about diversification and trends and everybody can ask their questions. Investing is the kind of thing that is hard for women because there are no right or perfect answers. There's some parts of personal finance where if you ask me a question, I can give you an answer and I can be a hundred

percent right. What is the best cashback credit card? I can look at them all. I can run the numbers.

“I can give you an answer. I can know that I'm correct. What's the best stock? Can't do it, right?”

Because no perfect answer exists because we have backward-looking information and not forward-looking information. And so we have to trust in the historical accuracy of what has come before. That is difficult for a large portion of women who like to know the answer to any question before we even ask that question. We have to get comfortable and the way to get comfortable is by actually doing it. And one thing that has really, really helped when you look at Gen Z and millennials is that

we're now being across the board automatically enrolled in these 401k and other retirement plans at work where we have them. The money is being automatically invested into a default like a target date fund. So you're investing whether or not you are doing the work of investing yourself in many cases. And if you can allow yourself to sit with that and get comfortable with the fact that you're not only doing it but you're doing it pretty well, that helps people. This is to be such an

interesting conversation honestly. I feel like this whole gender wage gap and transfer of wealth,

I want to start with the concept of financial freedom, right? I feel like the concept of financial

freedom has changed, especially for millennials, for Gen Z. How do you think we should go about thinking about financial freedom? Well, I'm interested in knowing how you think it's changed. What is it to you? Well, I feel like now it's more about personally like enjoying life doing what I want, right? It's really not about becoming a billionaire. It's like how what's the amount of money that I need where I can live comfortably by what I want and enjoy life, work out, be healthy,

“sit in the sun, you know, that's what I think of. Well, that's, I mean, that's pretty much my definition”

too. It's just my definition. I think extends for a longer period of time because of my age,

right? So I look at this and I think I want all of that but I want to be able at some point to just work when I want to work and know that those things will continue for as long as I live. So I think that's where the disparity in financial freedom comes. And I think I think younger generations define it in terms for today and older generations define it in terms that include a retirement that might last for three decades. So one of the things that I think a lot of my

listeners are probably going through right now. We've got a lot of 30 year olds as buying or renting.

And additionally, when we're talking about the American dream financial freedom, a lot of it

is also like being a homeowner, right? Do you feel like it's important to be a homeowner? Do you feel like it's a good investment strategy and what are some of the things we should think of renting versus buying? I feel like being a homeowner is a helpful way to save money over the long term. If you think about buying versus renting, month to month, right now the costs are actually closer than they've ever been. But when you own, you are putting equity, you're building equity in this house.

And that is a form of forced savings. And what happens if you get to the end of the road, if you pay down a mortgage for a long enough period of time, or even if you swap out of it and out of a couple of homes, but you've built up some equity and then you build up some more, you end up with this cushion of cash. And you can use that cushion to supplement your standard of living. You can use it to pay for long-term care. You can use it to keep a roof over your head. You can use

it to sell and move to Costa Rica. You have choices because you have this additional cushion. And if you've rented your whole life, unless you took the difference between the renting cost and the buying cost, which is a lot slimmer than it used to be, and you put that away every single

“month, you don't have that additional sum of money. So that's where being a homeowner, I think,”

is additive to your bottom line. There are other differences. We know in a whole bunch of different situations that autonomy is one of the things that make people happy. You're happier at your job if you feel like you've got enough autonomy to rearrange the furniture, or to put your own stuff up on the walls, or to decide that you're going to come in at 930 rather than 9 o'clock. You're just happier. And you are happier where you live if you feel like you have enough autonomy

to make the place what you want it to be. And you're more likely to have that if you own rather than if you rent. But there are a lot of cases where you shouldn't own. If you're not going to

“be some place for five years, I don't think you should buy. The cost of buying is just too steep.”

I don't think that mortgage rates at this level should stop people who want to be in a place for six, seven years and more. You'll eventually hopefully get an opportunity to re-ify that loan. But there are cases where renting is just better. You gave such a good advice. Like I'm in this predicament now. And I feel like to your point, I see a lot of my friends who have been home owners.

make like 200 grand. And they just keep playing with that money and kind of growing it and growing it.

“So I do see a lot of my friends who have dabbled in home ownership do really well.”

That's inspiring to me. It's just that in New York, it gets home pretty hard. It's so crazy. So I feel like people who are in different cities also have a different experience. That's way easier to buy a house if you live in the suburbs. But you have more choice now than you used to have. I mean, I know young couples who are thinking they live in New York where the price of home ownership is unsustainable. They're they're looking at Philadelphia. They're looking at Charlotte.

They're looking at other places where because they can work remotely. They could keep their jobs.

They could make some runs and they could be homeowners and have a standard of living that just is a little bit easier. Okay, so something that you talk a lot about and I was looking around your website and I saw that you were like, what is your money type and you have this quiz that people can take for you. They're money type on her money.com. So talk to us about money types. What

“is that? Why is it important to know? It's important to know how you're wired and why you're”

wired the way you are. It's the money type is love languages, right? If you ever read the five love languages, money type is that just from me. So we worked with PhD who developed this in-depth tool that has been tested on men and women to help figure out why you are the way you are with money. I mean, you may know that it is hard for you to spend or easy for you to spend. You may know that you have trouble losing money or more or less trouble taking risk than other

people. You may know that you would do anything for the members of your family even if it meant putting yourself at financial risk. All of these things are tied up in our five personality types. And I would bet just knowing a little bit more about you and about your audience that if people

“went to her money.com and they took our diagnostic, our questionnaire, money type quiz,”

you've got an audience that is full of what we call visionaries. A lot of entrepreneurs are visionaries and visionaries have to be careful when it comes to their own personal finances because it is really tempting to throw all of your money against the business and think that that business is going to be your retirement plan and we know the statistics on businesses that succeed versus fail and you give up a lot of years trying to get that business off the ground and very quickly you

can get yourself in trouble. The other thing that I like about money type so much is that we're not all just one type. We've got a primary type and then we have a couple of secondary types that make up our personality and if you know your money type and your partners money type it's helpful in navigating the relationship and the conversations that the two of you have about money when I was recently on a different podcast and the hosts had taken the money type

questionnaire and they said I feel so seen because there's something about this diagnostic. It

just it just gets people. I felt this way the first time I took it I'm a producer that's my primary

money type with a little bit of kind of sore which means I like to spend you know it's really true and it's really interesting that a test can get you so well. Yeah it's so true and I'm happy that you brought up relationships because I actually ended a relationship and one of my primary reasons was our views on money were so different. He's richer than I am and was so cheap and I was just like I can't do this. I like to live a life of larger. I like to spend my money not that like

I'm frivolous but it's just like what's the point of choosing such a hard job if you're not right you know like to me I'm just like if no one's spending their money why are we working so hard to like you know like so I just didn't make sense to me. Yeah and it's good that you figured this out before you like got engaged to the guy or worse married the guy right I mean in my house we say this is why we work and we say it for exactly the reasons that that you just described we work hard

and we work hard so that if we want to get on a plane and fly across the country we don't have

and you know I acknowledge we are definitely privileged I'm fortunate to have a career that I love which makes working hard feel like not working as hard this is why we work if they didn't pay us we wouldn't work so hard. Yeah I love that this has been such an awesome conversation okay a couple more questions let's talk about budgeting there's so much inflation going on everything is just way more expensive I think a lot of there's a lot of keeping up with the Joneses with social

“media a lot of comparison feeling like you need to keep buying and you know you're close like”

for instance with me I feel like I always got to buy so much clothes because I'm always photographed

in my outfits and then suddenly I don't want to wear the same thing again and so talk to us about how we can avoid over spending. Well first of all are you not on the real real you should just be turning over your closet all the I mean this is what I do because I I'm the same I you know do a lot of appearances and I don't want to be wearing the same thing all the time and I wear it a couple of times and I send it to the real real and I buy something else on the real real and I run

a credit and it makes me feel like I'm shopping for free even though it's not quite shopping for free

but and and that I'm doing something a little bit better for the environment and so that that's my

“that's my shopping suggestion but when it comes to over spending in general I think that the”

secret is that most people have absolutely no idea where their money is actually going so when we teach budgeting and we have a program called finance effects where we teach budgeting and and how to do this in a way that you can actually save something we put people through this process of figuring out where their money is going we use technology to do it so you don't have to do it by hand and once you see where you've been using your money then you have the tools and the ammunition

to make changes about where you consciously want to use your money and so it's not by the coffee right everybody's least favorite example it's if the coffee is the thing that lights up your day then by all means by the coffee but if you could care less and really what you want is a little bit of caffeine to help you get out the door then make it at home and have a sip and go about your day and spend your money on something that you actually value yeah I know where all my

money is going it's the fora and revolve all my money is just going straight there okay let's talk about paying down debt a lot of people have student loans a lot of people have debts you've got this avalanche method talk to us about the best strategies for paying down debt in your opinion the cheapest way the cheapest fastest way to pay off debt is to just stack it highest interest rate

to lowest interest rate pay off the highest interest rate debts first while making the minimum

payments on the rest once that high interest rate debt is gone then you just move on to the next one and so on and so on and so on the student loan debts are a little bit of a different piece long-term debts student loans mortgages car loans you basically want to try to pay those off on the schedule that you're given if you're struggling with your student loan debts and their federal debts then you want to make sure you're enrolled in an income repayment program through the

Department of Education we're getting some changes to those programs that are helpful

“as long as you're enrolled you should get notified of the changes and they should come your way”

but don't let paying a student loan debt faster get in the way of doing important things like grabbing the match from your 401k because if you look at the return on your money the way that we think about or the way that we should think about return on your money is equivalent to the interest rate so if you're paying off a student loan debt at 6% that's like getting a 6% return on your money if you're getting 50 cents on the dollar as a match in your 401k that's a 50% return on your

money and you can't not get that because you want to pay off the debt at 6% you just pay off the

messed up my credit because I was putting all yeah it was really dumb I was spending everything on my business credit cards and I just thought it was good that I wasn't spending on my own credit cards I thought and like I was shutting down my personal credit cards and then I realized like oops

“like I wasn't supposed to do that you need to actually have credit cards and you're actually”

and I always used to because I have a lot of cash I would just pay it off pay it off like

to zero balance and you're actually not supposed to do that oh no you are supposed to do it because I feel confused about like what like what should we actually be doing with our personal credit you should be using your personal credit cards and you should be paying them off every month pay them off to zero interest rates are way too high the average credit card interest rate I just looked this up yesterday is 28% that's a good thing it's insane you don't want to be paying interest

on a credit card so the the way to do this is to understand that there are a couple of factors that go into your credit score and you need to simultaneously manage all of them number one you

“got to pay your bills on time if you pay late especially if you pay late more than once that's”

really going to hurt your score the second and this is where you got in trouble is credit utilization

that's the percentage of credit that you have available to you that you're actually using we want to keep that number below 30% at all times so if you have a heavy spending month sometimes when I go on vacation I have a heavy spending month and I spend more than 30% of my credit limit on a card if you do that the thing to do is just pay the bill now pay it pay it twice a month rather than once a month to bring the utilization down the problem that you got into

by closing those credit cards is that you shrunk the pool of available credit that you had and that hurt your score the other thing that you did another factor it's not as big as the

first two but it's something called length of credit or credit history the longer your credit

relationships the more beneficial it is to your score when you close those cards if they were the

“cards that you had had the longest you hurt that factor too so that's how you do it yeah and actually”

I did have a credit card that was with me for like so long and then the credit card company like ended the card and I was like oh man I'm really screwed they ended it because you weren't using it right no no like it's like that like type of card like retired because I had it for so long then suddenly I was like oh my god I have no credit cards and I didn't even realize I'm fixing it though it will give it's not that terrible but I'm fixing it um cool so um let's talk about stocks or let's talk

about investing in general I'm just going to give you a general question I actually asked Susie Orman this question when she came along the show if you had $100,000 to invest you already had your emergency fund you already had savings all that you just had $100,000 cash where would you put it I mean what I'm doing with that kind of money right now is splitting it up and buying the stocks that we've been picking for our investing club right I have a diversified portfolio that is set up

to get me to the retirement that I want to get to I am on track I have met my savings goals so if this is quite literally free money I'm gonna put it into the picks that we're picking for our investing club and so recently we've been looking at stocks like Lulu Lemon we've got JP Morgan Chase we've got a bunch of stocks in the portfolio but we add one about every month and uh sometimes we sell one and and I would do that that's so cool so this investment club is basically you guys like

all talk about stocks and uh basically give guidance to each other how does one join your it sounds really cool how does one join your investment club so you can go to hermoney.com it's called investing fix there is if anybody wants to try it out you can do it free for a month but the way it works is that every month we present four different investing options we do it we look at them on four different dimensions how do they make their money what do we like about them what don't we

like about them and would we buy them at the current price and then the the club votes on what

and uh it's been a lot of fun some of the some of the women in our club have stepped up and presented

“stocks that they're interested in and some of those have been purchased for for the club one of”

our members uh suggested united rentals and we bought that it's been a huge win um so we're all

learning from each other which is just so amazing that's so cool so it's actually like you're as

are pooling your money together and investing together we're not we run a group portfolio that the

“club itself runs and is invested uh by the votes that the club decides but a lot of members like”

me are buying the picks for our own portfolios hmm i love it well Gene this was such an awesome conversation i and my show with two questions that i ask all my guests then at the end of the year

we typically do something fun with it so the first one is what is one actionable thing our young

and profitors can do today to become more profitable tomorrow start tracking your spending figuring out where that money is going for real yeah if you don't know where it's going then you have no control over what it's doing for you whether it's a business expense or a personal expense and i know it's tedious and i know it's boring but sometimes boring is better and what is your secret to profiting in life and this can go beyond financial advice my secret to profiting and i

gotta tell you i i lost my mom recently and my lifelong friends came out of the woodwork and have

“not let me have have have left me alone in a good way in the best way and and my secret is”

is to invest as much energy as absolutely possible in those friends that's so beautiful it's so true sometimes you forget about relationships and there the nothing in the world is more important i think than relationships 100 and so jean working everybody learn more about you and her money so i'm on social pretty much everywhere at jean chat ski and you can find us at her money.com

amazing well thank you so much for joining us on young and profiting podcast thanks for having me