Naveen Jain: The Business Mindset That Makes Money Follow You | Entrepreneurship | E406

If you can help a billion people live a better life, you can create a hundred billion dollar company. And people who focus on making money really make money. In other words, making money is like having an orgasm.

If you focus on it, you're never going to get it.

We just have to learn to enjoy the process. Most people ask, "How do I make more money?" but Naveen Jane asks, "What problem is big enough to make wealth a buy product?" He is a serial entrepreneur who has built across internet infrastructure, space exploration and precision health.

There are three questions you ask yourself when you're starting a company. Why this? If your successful would it help? A million people, ten million people, hundred million people live a better life.

“The second part of why now, the third thing you need is probably the most important part”

in success for an entrepreneur, which is why me. And why me is, what questions are you asking that are different from what everyone asks in the industry is asking. Why is it such an advantage to actually not be a part of the industry that you want to start a business in?

The main reason is, your personality is so bubbly, you're so positive, help us understand as entrepreneurs, how we can become more optimistic. Naveen, welcome to Young Improveding Podcast. Naveen, this is your third time on YAP, so we're going to skip the whole origin story. We did that the first time you came on episode 22, back when I was just a baby podcaster

starting out, you came on and supported the show, which is a theme about you, you love to support other people. Then you came on and you talked about volume and health and how you're making illness optional. And today we're going to talk about how to be more counterintuitive, which is the perfect

topic for entrepreneurs who are listening to Young Improveding Podcast.

“So first, I want to just cut straight to it, why is chasing money the worst way to try”

to become rich? Well, I think making money is a byproduct of doing things that actually improves people's lives. And people who focus on making money really make money, they are exceptions here and there.

But really, if you focus every single day when you wake up in the morning and say, what can I do to make my fellow human's lives better? In whatever way you can. And if you can help a billion people's life better, you can create a hundred billion dollar company.

You can help a million people. You can help a hundred million people. But at the end of the day, the people whose lives are getting better become your loyal customers. And that is really where the sustainable enterprises are get created. In other words, making money is like having an orgasm.

If you focus on it, you're never going to get it.

We just have to learn to enjoy the process. I love that advice. It's so true. It's like if you help people on yourself problems, you're going to end up making money. So talk just about why solving really big problems sometimes is easier than solving small ones.

Well, of course, halam, if you think about it, when you are doing something, that has a potential to change the way people are going to live their lives. Potential to change the trajectory of how humanity is going to live. You attract best and the brightest because the best, the most successful people want to work on what I would call legacy-making ideas.

This is why, you know, if you look at the best entrepreneurs, why do they attract the best talent? Because they're focusing on doing things that can change everything that how we know the things are done. If you look at Elon, you look at, you know, Jeff, you look at anyone of those guys.

They're fundamentally changing what we thought was possible, and they attract the best talent.

“Now, once you have the best talent, guess what happens?”

The money follows and say, oh, my God, look at this team, what an amazing team they

have assembled and every single person wants to fund it. And they have this grand idea, and if it can be successful, they look at this thing, this could be such a massive market, such a massive opportunity. So people don't focus on what's happening today, but they're focusing on what is possible to model.

The great example you look at is SpaceX. It's not the 18 billion dollar revenue that makes it 2 trillion dollar company. It is the future of what is possible in the next 5-10 years, and people say, well, there's two small, why are we giving that so much valuation?

the trajectory of our humanity is going to live.

“So for all the entrepreneurs that are tuning in, that might have like, let's say, like, a marketing”

agency, like, I do, or a car wash, and they're making good money, but they don't really have that big why. They're not mining the moon, like you are trying to do. How can we have a why that still moves the needle? Do we need to have, like, a moon shot, why in order to be successful entrepreneurs in your

opinion? In some sense, an entrepreneur is someone who sees a problem, and not only come up with the solution, they actually go out and do something about it. That means they execute on the idea, they don't simply idea it, that they don't simply complain about the problem, and they don't simply idea they go out and implement it.

Now, in terms of an entrepreneur that, to me, anything you do, that's worth doing, they stand 15 years of your life. You're going to dedicate 10, 15, 20 years of your life to doing it, and it takes the same amount of energy and effort. So why not do something that brings you joy?

Ask yourself, why do you want to wake up in the morning and do something? Unless it is bringing you through joy.

So forget about just helping a billion people.

“You have to ask yourself, what does it mean to you?”

What are you willing to die for, and they live for it? When you wake up in the morning, do you jump out of the bed, or you are still lying in the bed, hoping that maybe I could just another half hour later I can wake up, and unless you're really willing to jump out of the bed every single day, it is not your calling. And when you find your calling, it doesn't matter what that is.

You actually end up finding joy, and when you find joy, you become successful, and a single car wash becomes a car wash franchise, and the car wash franchise becomes a massive enterprise about how people find happiness. Young and profiteers, your logo is not a business identity. When I was starting out as a side hustle, I was not thinking about my business identity,

but the unsexy foundation matters. Your business address, your operating agreement, your compliance, your privacy, your phone number, your website, your registered agent. Because when you're starting out, it's too easy to accidentally build your dream business on your personal Gmail, your personal cell, and even your home address.

“And that's how I found out about North West registered agent.”

I recently switched because I found out the importance of having a good, reliable registered agent, which is essentially the entity that collects your legal notices and lets you know if somebody's coming after you, and I didn't know that, and I had a really bad one, and I missed some notices that cost me almost $200,000 a year. So that's why I made a change, and now I use North West registered agent.

So you get a business address, an operating agreement, a domain, a professional email, phone number, and all the built-in privacy that you need, because you don't want people knowing your personal address. And if you ever need help, they've got 1,500 corporate guides, real people who help you with local laws, and who can help you every step of the way, don't pay hundreds or thousands

of dollars on legal fees and lawyers to help you draft what you can get for free. You get all the templates that you need to start a business at North West registered agent. Visit Northwest Registered Agent.com/yapfree and start using free resources to build something amazing. Get more with Northwest Registered Agent at NorthwestRegistered Agent.com/yapfree.

If you're starting a business, your first place to go is Northwest Registered Agent. Yapam 7 Days. That's all it took me to go from my dear to a $500 million storefront. No tech team, no coding, just my LinkedIn knowledge, a business idea, and Shopify.

Here's what most people don't realize about starting a business.

The idea is never the hard part. The setup is where people stall and procrastinate. They overthink the design, the checkout flow, and then months pass along with nothing to show for it. But you're good idea.

Shopify removes all that friction. Their templates and AI tools get you a beautiful, functional site setup fast. And when someone's ready to buy, Shopify checkout is so smooth that more customers actually follow through. We're turning buyers can check out in a single click with shop pay, for example.

And if you hit a wall at any point with your build, they've got a built-in AI assistant sidekick that's there to help. Not an FAQ page, an actual assistant that helps you build, troubleshoot, and keep going. And the proof is right there, Yapam. On the how we profit series, the founders I've been talking to, who are doing millions

of dollars in their e-commerce business, they sell on Shopify. So if a business idea has been sitting in the back your head collecting desk, stop waiting, take action. Just do it.

Start your free trial at shopfi.com/propheting. Again, that's shopify.com/propheting. Go to shopify.com/propheting to start building your dream business today. Yapam, I built an app in 15 minutes. And before you ask, I didn't suddenly become a software engineer.

In fact, I've never written a line of code in my life.

But now, I'm trying to now apps like it's my day job. And that's because I learned how to do it through Mind Stone. It's an AI transformation company that helps close the gap between having access to AI and actually getting value from it. So this all started when I attended their breakthrough AI weekend.

I learned how to build apps. And I also learned about their platform rebel, which basically acts as a second brain. It actually helps you use AI in a way that completely transforms the way that you do your work. It changed my life.

I left that weekend thinking that I have to roll out Mind Stone to my entire team. And we did. So we started with the four week AI competency program. It's online. You don't need code.

It's made for non-technical professionals. And it's really affordable. And so I sent 60 people on my team to take this training. And with that training, you get access to this platform called rebel, where you can ingest your email, your Slack messages, your fireflies, all your drive resources.

And then you can basically use it as a coach, as a tool, as a thought partner every day.

“Before I hop on a meeting, I ask rebel, "Hey, what do I need to know for this meeting?”

What do I need to bring up?" And it will scan Slack and even send me things that I didn't realize was going on in my company. You can create skills, which is a creative process that might have taken two or three people and going into different apps.

And I can do that on their behalf.

It is amazing what you can do with this platform.

It is drastically improved our efficiency at yet media so much so that we're pausing hiring on a lot of roles. I recommend you start with their four week AI competency program. You can get access and get 10% off at experience.minestone.com/yap. That's experience.minestone, M-I-N-D-S-T-O-N-E.com/yap for 10% off their four week AI competency

program. You've got this framework that I've heard you say before. Why this? Why now? Why me?

“Which I think is a great framework for people who are hoping you become entrepreneurs,”

but don't really know where to start. Sure. Can you break that down for us? Absolutely, hello. You know, there are three questions you ask yourself when you're starting a company.

Why this? Why this? I think we talked about briefly. Any time before you start something, ask yourself, "God forbid, I am actually successful in solving the problem that I set out to solve."

That means assume your successful. Whatever it is that you're trying to do, assume your successful. And if your successful would it help?

A million people, 10 million people, 100 million people live a better life.

Because anytime you can solve a problem that helps a million people, 10 million people, or even 100,000 people, you can create a great enterprise. And again, focusing on what can you do to make people's life better. The second part of why now, the timing is a number one predictor of an entrepreneur or success.

Yes, despite being the team and despite being a great idea, the timing is a number one predictor because sometimes you're too early and sometimes you're too late. And now the way to find timing actually is that the time to start now, there are two ways of doing it. One thing is, you look at this stuff and say, "What would it take to solve this problem?"

So you don't focus on how you're going to do something you focus on, "What problems have to be solved for this big idea to actually become real?" And the second is, you look at this stuff and say, "What changed in the last couple of years?" But more importantly, what do you expect to change in the next three to five years that will allow you to solve this problem at scale in three to five years?

And this problem could not have been solved five years ago, right? So that means most entrepreneurs fail and they end up only doing the things they are good at because they focus on how to do something not on what needs to be done. And I can give several examples of that.

“For example, if you want to live on Venus, you don't focus on how am I going to do that.”

You focus on what are the problems that have to be solved. You have to leave Earth orbit number one. You have to go from Earth orbit to Venus orbit. You have to land on Venus and number four, you have to create a habitat on Venus. And then you see which problems are already solved, which are incrementally and what

is the one big thing that needs to be solved that I can focus on, right? And that's really

each problem rather than figuring out how to solve this big problem.

“The second is, you have to understand, are you solving the root cause of the problem?”

Are you solving the symptom of the problem? And this is another place where entrepreneurs fail, right? They look at something and say, oh my god, that's the problem. And they focus on solving this and some other entrepreneur comes along and solves the root cause and the symptom disappears, right?

And that is a fundamental way of learning when something is a symptom was something is a root cause. So for example, if you look at the fresh water and the third world countries people died because they don't have access to fresh water. And you start focusing on that and say I'm going to build a nano straw that you can drink water from and that is going to help so many people get fresh water.

Until you realize that majority of fresh water is used for agriculture. And so my god, I need to fix agriculture to use hydroponic aeroponic and you're feeling good. Until you figure out that majority of agriculture is used to feed the catalyst. And now you say, oh, it is the catalyst that causes us to have more agriculture that

“to taste the fresh water, what if we can actually grow meat without having to grow cannons?”

Right? And then suddenly the fresh water problem becomes a synthetic biology problem. That means can we take a stem cell from a cow and really grow the muscle tissues that people want to eat. You don't have to grow eyes, you don't have to grow the organs that people don't want to eat. And only grow the organs that people want to eat.

And suddenly you solve root cause of the problem rather than the symptom of the problem.

The third thing is really is probably the most important part in success for an entrepreneur,

which is why me. And why me is, what questions are you asking that are different from what everyone asks in the industry is asking? The questions you ask are the problems you solve, right? So this really comes down to is, if you are an expert in any field and you start something,

“you tend to take the foundational knowledge as granted because that's what makes you an expert.”

And if you're not going to challenge the foundation of what every expert has taken it for granted, you end up becoming incremental, maybe you'll be 10% better than someone else. But you're not going to be 10 times better. To be 10 times better, you have to challenge that foundation.

So for example, today there are 8 billion people on planet earth.

And we still look, what if in the next 2050 they're going to have 20 billion people on planet earth, how are we going to solve this world hunger? And people say, "Oh, you need to grow more food for 20 billion people." You have to reduce the wastage of transportation that amount of food gets wasted. But nobody is going to ask the question, "Why do we eat food?"

Because when you ask the question, "Why do we eat food?" You realize you need energy and you need nutrition. What are the different ways can you get energy? At the end of the day we are eating plants, how do plants get energy? They use carbon dioxide, radiation, and they get the energy. Why can't we do the photosynthesis ourselves?

And suddenly you have a solution that won't have been available to you to feed 20 billion people without growing food because you ask the different questions. And that's the theme of everything is, "How do you challenge? How do you look at the different perspectives?" And the less you know about the industry, the better you are in disrupting it, right?

And hello, you are a great example of that. You didn't come from the media industry. You didn't come from all of the typical, how media industries just created. And here you started something because you saw a need that could help millions of entrepreneurs be more successful.

Because anytime an entrepreneur becomes successful, they help 10,000, 100,000 million people live a better life. And so if you can help a million entrepreneurs, now you have essentially livered them to have 100 million people and a billion people, right? And I think you are a great example of someone coming from outside the industry, creating an amazing platform. And I'm just so proud of you and everyone who's listening to this

should send a note and let her know how amazing she is and what she does. Maybe you are so sweet. It's true. I mean, when I started in the podcast industry and started

my network one of the reasons why I was successful is because I never was really part of a network,

so I started selling ads differently than everybody else. I was selling across all different channels instead of just podcasts. And now a lot of the networks like copied what we are doing because we kind of like set the stage. So let's go deeper on that. Why is it such an advantage

Yeah. And I think the main reason is that you are able to bring it completely different perspective on the same problem. And just to ground it, Hala, I want to go back to I know we talked a lot

“about violence. But I think this relevant to bring up how I started violence. Because I want to,”

you know, I want to show people the same thing that this framework about why this, why now, why me, how I applied it myself to create a new company. So here I was, as you know, I was working on mining the moon for a helium-3 to build the fusion reactor. Right. And we became the, a company called Moon Express. We became the first company ever to get permission to leave Earth orbit. We actually got the President Obama to change the law that anything we bring back from the Moon,

we get to own it because there was no law. It simply said that every planet outside planet Earth is the, is the property of humanity. We all own it and no one can own it. What does it really mean? If I bring back the helium, do we own it with humanity, own it? Who wants it? So we had to get the law clear. So we got President Obama to sign into the law. And then we became one of the six companies

to get 2.6 billion dollar NASA contract. And I felt, you know, really, that I wasn't top of the Moon.

And then my dad was diagnosed with a stage 4 pen credit cancer. I didn't even know he was sick let alone he had a stage 4 cancer. And he was given a couple of months to live and unfortunately that's all we got. And it broke my heart that here I'm thinking that, you know, we can, you know, colonize the Moon and the Mars and create a multi-planetary society. And it's still we have loved once suffering and dying on planet Earth. So I said, I'm going to switch track here. And this is really

every entrepreneur now starts to pay attention. There are two words in the English language that are

most powerful. One is imagine. And the reason the imagine is really powerful is when you tell someone

say, imagine they actually remove all the preconceived ideas. And now they're willing to say, what is it that you want them to imagine? That means you can now give them the vision of what the new world could look like. The problem here is the vision needs to be so visual that people can

“actually visualize it in their own mind. And the problem that I think, you know, Hala, you help”

entrepreneurs solve that. You ask them, what is their vision? I want to be the largest car wash company that generates $10,000 a day. I'm sorry. How do you visualize that? Like, there's nothing here. So you want to be able to have a clear vision. Very similar to how Dr. Martin Luther King said, imagine a world where a black man is holding the hand of a white girl walking together. You can close your eyes and you can visualize that. Now that is the kind of vision you want people to say.

Imagine a world where your loved ones are no longer suffering from depression or anxiety or have a hard disease or hard attack. They have immobile. They have Parkinson's where they can't move their hands. They have cancer that they're going to suffer and die from. This is something you can easily say, oh, my God, I remember my great grandmother or my grandmother or my, you know, this relative who suffered through it. That is something you can visualize, God, what a wonderful

“word that be right. And that's an easy, you have to have a very clear vision of what you're trying”

to do. So that's one word. The second word is what if, and what if allows you to take away the possibilities of what is possible today and what if allows you to actually look at the what the word can be tomorrow. Right. So it is my what if was what if we can actually understand what changes in the human biology, human body before people develop cancer or diabetes or hard disease or depression or any of these chronic diseases, what changes in the human body.

So we can diagnose this disease early, prevent them from happening and use the food as a medicine to reverse these diseases. And that was our whole statement. What if we can actually understand what is going on inside the human body. And then we said, why this? What if I am actually

successful in solving this problem? Would it help a billion people answer is 8 billion enough

first because every one of us is going to suffer from it. So great. Why why this is checkmark?

the human body. You have to be able to process massive amount of data and then use AI to be able to actually make sense of all of it. And we said, look, cost of sequencing is coming down massively.

Cost of processing is coming down massively. AI is getting more and more powerful. In three to five

years, we will be able to scale this business even though it is more expensive today. But the price is that plummeting we should be able to build a great business and help billions of people live a better

“life because these things are all happening. Now, the third part was the most important part,”

why me? And we noticed that everybody in the industry was doing one thing. They were all saying, I want to know about Hala's genes, your DNA. Because if I know your DNA, I'll be able to find out what's going on in your body. And not coming from the industry was really simple for me to ask really dumb question. Hey, does your DNA actually change when I gain weight? And people say, of course not, well, it must definitely change when I become diabetic. No, or hard disease, or depression,

or anxiety and answers, your DNA doesn't change even after I die. And you look at my DNA 100 years of 500 or 1000 years later, it's identical DNA. DNA can't even tell you your dad or a lie,

let alone are you healthier or sicker. So my first thing was why are we spending time looking at

DNA? It doesn't tell you are you becoming healthier or sicker. And what that change, people told me was, RNA, the gene expression is constantly changing. So genes are identical,

“but the gene expression makes us who we are. And Hala, this, I think not being assigned to”

you and I both can appreciate every part of our body is identical DNA. So my hair, remember the time shows you find a hair, you find that it's, yeah, or you find anything you blood or even neurons, your kidney or heart, every single part of our body is identical DNA. Yet, I don't have the, you know, eyes growing on my finger and the nails growing on my head. Why is that? It's because it's same DNA, but different expression makes the eyes and ears,

and, you know, skin and lungs and kidney, but same DNA. So it's really the expression that put matter. So my thinking was, what if we can actually measure the RNA? We're not focusing on how we're going to do something, remember? You're going to say, what needs to be done? So

we say, look, we're going to focus on measuring RNA. And second thing is this, would that solve the

problem? The answer was kind of not quite. Why is that? Because 99% of all the genes that are expressed in our body don't come from our mom and dad, they come from these hundred trillion microbes that are in our gut in our mouth all over us. And these microbes really interact the human body and actually make us who we are. These are not parasites. We outsourced many of these functions to them. Now, interesting thing is, in those there, there was no AI, so we used Dr. Google.

And it's a gut, Parkinson's and microbiome, the Alzheimer and microbiome, diabetes and microbiome, cancer and microbiome turns out every single chronic disease is connected to microbiome. In fact, even the cure for addiction, cure for cancer, so immunotherapy, or all of these things, actually depends, but you know, gut microbiome. So if you cancer therapy, immunotherapy doesn't work, you change the microbiome, it starts working. People who have addiction, they change their microbiome,

and the addiction went away. So interesting thing was, people realize the microbiome is important, and I saw there were terms of companies doing microbiome testing that I said, why is this problem still exists? And it turns out every microbiome company, Hala, was making the same mistake. They were doing the DNA of microbiome. So if they can tell you, oh, you have this organism, you have this organism, without ever understanding what these organism starts expressing and what

they are actually doing. And in my mind, the same organism, like a human being, could do it in something good in the good environment, and something bad in the bad environment. And that's literally what happens. People at this idea, why have bad microbiome or good microbiome? No. Some theme organism can do something good or bad depending on what the environment of the gut is. So for example, E coli, people say, oh my god, E coli is bad bacteria. No, no, no, no,

E coli is needed to take the iron from the food and transport it to the bloodstream. Right? And if all it can kill you, if it is bad behavior. Same thing,

“a dementia is a really good organism. People take it as probiotic and guess what?”

If it is eating the fiber, it produced blood rate, which is good for you. And if not,

predictor of multiple slurs. So imagine that, not the organism, but their behavior that changes.

So we say, why not just measure the their gene expression, look at the human gene expression,

“look at AI to connect them all together. And that's how we're going to solve the problem.”

And that is literally what became wild. We found the technology at Los Alamos National Lab. And how I think, since you and I talked to years ago, so much had changed now. So when you do a test, we get a spritf of your saliva. So we can look at your oral microbial activity. That's your fuel. So we can get your gut microbial activity, your gut lining, finger prick blood. So we can get your mitochondria, your immune system, and all the one. So we by the way

analyze 100 million transcript 100 million biomarkers in your body. And then based on that,

we can tell you, what is happening? Your biological age, your heart health, your gut health, your oral health, your immune health, your cognitive health. Or we can go as deep as you want. Your uric acid production, your, you know, LPS production, your sulfide production. And then we can say, look, don't eat avocado because your uric acid production is too high. Here is a score that is bad for you. And here is a science paper.

Every single food with the eat this food here is why here is a science paper. Don't eat these food here is why here is a score here is a science paper. And then we also tell you what nutrition your body needs. You need 22mg of elderly, 29mg of lycopen, you need 89mg of amylase. And then we custom formulate that for each individual. We don't have a previous capsule. We don't have a premade formula. So these are mine. It made for me every month. And every month

based on your wearability, based on your electronic medical record, we constantly reformulate for you every month. So as you body changing, we reformulating it for you. We give you the personalized probiotics and prebiotics, personalized oral Los Angeles. And we even have personalized toothpaste. I don't know if you saw that or not for morning morning and evening personalized toothpaste. And here is the best part. We actually did double blinded placebo control trials. And we showed

people in 90 days, not 90 days. If you take a personalized supplements, if you were redibited, your A1C came down by 0.42 and you became healthy. If you had an IVS, which is 15% of us suffer from constipation, we showed 68% of the people in 90 days became healthy compared to 11% on placebo. People who had anxiety and depression, 52% of the people became healthy,

“compared to 28% on placebo, simply using food as a medicine. So remember what we set out”

to do, what we're doing. And here is the latest news for you. Now, we are able to diagnose stage one pancreatic cancer. Remember how I lost my dad? Because there was no test for diagnosing stage one cancers. So we are able to now be launching a test that can diagnose pancreatic cancer at stage one, 94% specificity, 88% sensitivity for stage one cancer. We can now diagnose stage one oral cancer, stage one throat cancer, IBD, which is prone and colitis,

and now we are validating our test for colon polyph, which is 7 to 10 years before you develop a colon cancer. That means you can remove the colon polyphs if you can detect them 6 to 10 years before you develop a cancer. I mean, this is how we change humanity, right? Yeah, that's amazing. That's so awesome. And the way that you speak about it, I can tell like, you don't care about selling kits. You're just explaining how it's going to help humanity. And this is actually

something that you teach. You always say, you know, your best sales pitch is actually not selling.

“Yeah. Time to ask about that. So, honestly, anytime you feel that you're being sold,”

you tend to become skeptical and you lean back. Oh my God, I've been sold to now, right? You lean forward when you're having a conversation with someone. You're talking to someone who are giving you information, right? So, to me, now, look at how I want to do. What is advertising, advertising is not about. Bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, now, bye, now. Advertising is about letting you know how whatever problem that you have is is solution. Here is the information. Here is the, you know, pros and cons. And the more you talk about, hey, this is

downside. Here's the upside. Here's why it might work. It is why it may not work. And you give that

Everyone should do this. And what I find really is anytime you hear someone says, everyone should take

“an AD. Unless your name is everyone, just don't do it. So, idea is that AD is no such thing as”

universal healthy food. There's no such thing as universal healthy supplement. And there's no such thing that it works for everyone. And that is the big beauty of selling is when people number one believe that you're doing it for the right reason. When they believe they can hear the obsession in your wife. When they can see that you're doing it because you're willing to die for it. When they believe you're doing it because you have that interest of fellow humans in your voice. People don't buy

one information saying, buy now. And if you don't buy now in 30 minutes, you will never get this

price again. It's like people think get over it. Yeah, fam. As my business keeps growing, I feel like I'm always hiring. I recently added two new video editors and a producer to my team. And I can tell you from experience, the right hire can give you leverage. The wrong hire gives you a second job. And that's the last thing you need. So, when I need the right person, I go to indeed sponsored jobs. Indeed sponsored jobs boost your job post and search results.

So, you can reach candidates who meet your specific criteria like skills, certifications,

location, and more. Because the goal is not more resumes. The goal is better matches.

Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all of your boxes. Let's stress less time more results. When you need the right person to cut through the chaos, this is a job for indeed sponsored jobs. And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsor job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves at indeed.com/podcast. Just go to indeed.com/podcast right now and support our show by saying you heard about indeed

on this podcast. Indeed.com/podcast terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for

“indeed sponsored jobs. When I think about you and you know, we've met three times now,”

your personality is so bubbly, you're so positive. You have such an abundant mindset. You have such a mindset of service. And these are the themes that really come out. It's like optimism, abundance, service. You can't have a scarcity mindset and build the types of things that you do. So help us understand, as entrepreneurs, like how we can become more optimistic, how we should think more abundantly. In life, it is very, very difficult. We evolved to think negatively. We

evolved to be attention to negativity. Our amygdala in our brain is actually designed to look for all the bad things happen. Because if you go back to when we were living in the savannas of Africa, if you missed the good news, nothing bad happened to you. If you missed the bad news, you got wiped out of the gene pool. You were no longer allowed to have pretty reproduced. So what happens is, once we realize as humans that, oh my god, people pay attention to negativity. Every news,

I, if you watch a news, everything starts with the murder. Here, the rape here and the, you know,

“the riots here, if it bleeds, it leads, they want negativity because that's what people pay attention”

to so now they can sell them ads. And what I find really is, as in entrepreneur, people label things as success and failure. Instead of labeling everything you do as an experiment. And I think let me just explain because such a key concept, right? So if I say I do this, oh my god, I failed. Or if I simply say, this is my next experiment. An experiment has an outcome A and outcome B. When outcome A happens, I do C. When outcome B happens, I do D. Right? And then everything is now

not as success. Oh my god, A was a success and B was a failure. It simply says, everything you do, give you new information that allow you to be the next thing. And then give you new information that lives in the next thing. So everything you do is stepping stone rather than a success or a failure. Because anytime you label something, it changes your perception of yourself and perception of what you're going to do next. Right? Simply labeling something good or bad changes are

how we feel about. Right? I don't know if we ever talked about this, you know, this idea of good or bad. Because as soon as something happens, we have a tendency to assign it a label.

that's the worst thing that can happen to me. This is so bad. And your mind is saying, oh my god, I got to protect this thing. This is really bad. What's this saying? And by the way, 10 years from now, you're going to meet someone even more wonderful. You're going to say, oh my god, what a nightmare

we avoided. Right? So yeah. Well, yeah, that second it looks like is the question of life and death.

By simply labeling that instead of that, what if we say, oh, that happened. Universe is my friend. If this happened, it is probably for my best.

“Right? And this is really the best thing to do is to say, look, this happened,”

acknowledge it. And then say, universe is my friend. It is for my best. Now, let me give you an example, you know, every culture has these stories about good or bad. I don't know your halabic. What's your ethnic background? I'm Palestinian. Oh my god, I got you and I got to have a chat about that part. You know, my wife actually grew up in Palestine. Wow. Wow. Yes. Yeah. So in Indian culture, there is a story about this king and his wise man. So king

and a wise man go and they go hunting together. And then as they were hunting, king falls down from his horse and breaks his arm. And the wise man says, oh, so that happened, it's probably for the good. And the king looks at him and says, I just broke my arm and you're telling me, it's for the good.

“You are not a good human being and I can, I'm going to tell you what good is. It takes them”

back into the palace, puts him into the dungeon and says, this dark dungeon is where you belong. And the wise man says, so that happened is probably for the good. And he says, we'll see. So king a week later goes back hunting all by himself. And this time he got caught by a tribe. And the tribe now want to sacrifice him and they take him, they get him ready for sacrifice. The priest comes out and the priest says, let him go. Why? He says, he's a broken man.

We don't sacrifice a broken man in front of the god. We only sacrifice the man who is not broken. And he goes back to the dungeon and says, wise man, wise man, you saved my life. You were right. It was for the best that I broke my arm. And he says, no king, thank you because you saved my life. How I put you in the dungeon. He says, if I was with you, they would have sacrificed me. Wow. So my point is, it doesn't matter what you thought was

bad. It turned out to be good. What you thought was good. It's not to be bad. I point is, in life, you simply have these events. And the concept I was going to really go was that learning to know the difference between happiness and joy. So happiness is something transient. When someone says, I love you, it makes you temporarily happy. When someone says something that's hurtful, it may make you temporarily unhappy. But guess what? The happiness may change. But your joy is

internal. No one can bring you joy and no one can take the joy away from you. Once you find that bliss in doing things that you're doing every day, you find this tremendous amount of joy. And yes, you may be unhappy and happy on some days and some days, you may be more happy than others. But your joy is internal. So once you find that joy that comes from helping people live

better, finding something that you find that you is through calling, that joy can never be taken away.

And last thing is an entrepreneur, Hala, and I think as we get there, is these ups and downs that we

“talk about are part of life. So what I tell entrepreneurs is, look, the only way you know your”

life is when you do you have a hard beat, right? What happens then if you climb, show when someone is down, the touch then see do you have a hard beat? Yeah. Right? What is a hard beat? If you put them in the hard beat, what does it look like? Up and down and up and down. And when you see this smooth line, that means the person is flat on your dead. Now imagine that. So what I tell entrepreneurs, any time you have these ups and downs, that means you're still alive. When you have

the flat line, when you think you're living a smooth life, when you find yourself living a smooth life, you're dead. You just don't know it. You're living a life of a zombie. This ups and downs

tells me that you're alive. And the beauty is, when you are down, never feel that this is forever.

You know, if you can just hang her down, the next beat is going to be up. And most importantly,

and winter always comes. I feel like every entrepreneur, tuning in, needed to hear that. I think

that was such an awesome, beautiful analogy. So I want to talk about the art of counter-intuitive thinking. Because you have a new book about counter-intuitive thinking. And you talk about the five traits of somebody who's a counter-intuitive thinker. The first one is question everything,

“which I think we did talk about. But I'd love for you to give us like, what is like an example”

of something that seems dumb or like an example of just really questioning everything? I would tell you that this is actually, it may also be a lesson about better things. So I have three children. I think you and I have talked about that. I have three children. My oldest is run a company called Bill. And most of you young people probably, you know, about Bill. So he's my daughter. Yeah, he's crushing it. He's crushing it. And he's having a son on the

tattoo when I found that out. Yeah, he's crushing it. And my daughter was by the way, so he's a water graduate and my daughter went to Stanford. And she is a Stanford STEM fellow, Stanford may feel fellow. And she wants a company called Abby. So every woman who's listening to it, Abby, which is a regional microbiome company for women's health. And she's all about women's health.

“And she before that, she did a company that actually removed the gender bias and highly. Right?”

So she's all about how to take women's and actually bring them into the, you know, same level. And what she does means really my bonding to me. She's a dad every time I go to a investor, they say, oh, women's health is such a niche market. And she's a, you know, the 51% of the people are women. I'm a niche market. He has a high amount of money. But separately, for some reasons, people somehow think that women's health is such a niche market.

And the point is trying to make is that she's doing sees absolutely crushing it. The largest database on humanity by the way, largest database on women's health ever assembled. So every man

should get it for the girlfriend, their mom and sister, amazing product. And my youngest one

by the way, it's another Stanford grad. I became a Schwarzenegger scholar and he runs a fintech company, another unicorn. So all three of them are running a unicorn. Now, the reason what I was going to say was that you asked me about counter intuitive. So I remember the best counter intuitive thing is when they were young. My son would say, dad, dad, look up what a beautiful blue sky. And most parents would say, look up and say, indeed, it is beautiful because you want to support, you can even

encourage them and you want to, and guess what, you missed the best moment you had to actually teach them a basic lesson, which is, do you know that sky doesn't really exist? Sky is a figment of our imagination. It is a blue light that scatters and we see this barrier called sky. There is no sky. When you go from here to Mars, you don't say, mom, I just pass the sky. There is no sky. And by the way, there is no color blue. Blue, if you look in the outside, it's simply the electromagnetic waves

and the photons that hit our retina and our visual cortex makes them the color. There is no color out there, right? Now, what you just taught them, Hala is exactly that. Something you are 100% certain about, you see with your eyes, the blue sky. And you say, what if, what if there is a different explanation? What if that is wrong? What if there is no sky? What if there is no color blue? And that is how you fundamentally change and teach them that everything that you take it for granted can

be challenged. And if you challenge that, you get to get to the truth of what it is.

Okay, so the second straight is exploring different perspectives. Talk to us about that.

Yeah, so I think it's, I think we briefly touched on that. You know, a person who is an expert, someone who has an hammer, they think everything out there is an ale. They want a hammer and everything is. They think that that's a solution to everything. And what happens is when people have broad knowledge and they have different perspectives, they can say, oh, this one really requires a screwdriver. This one really requires the hammer. This made it quite a ranch, right? So they're

different solutions to different things and you only see them when you see them from a completely different perspective. And I think everyone knows intuitively that it's like a blind man. And they're looking at elephant. Depending on their perspective, if they touch the tail, they think that is the elephant is what the tail looks like. If they touch the trunk,

“they think that is what elephant looks like. When they touch the legs, that's what the elephant”

looks like. And everyone has their own perspective. And yes, they're all part of the elephant, but they're not the whole elephant. One of them that we didn't talk about, one trait of counter-intuitive

how entrepreneurs can be courageous and not let their fear stand in their way. So I think people have

this idea that courage is about not having the fear. Courage is not about not having the fear, because that is nivety and stupidity. The courage is knowing the fear and willing to go out and actually push forward, knowing what the because you cannot be so naive, not to know that hey, when you walk up there, there are dangers. So you can prepare for it, right? So the beauty of courage is knowing the fear, knowing what can go wrong and then preparing for it and doing

your path so that it doesn't go wrong. It's not about fear, it's about preparing for that fear, is what the courage is all about. And I would say having that intellectual curiosity is probably

“one of the best things in an entrepreneur. That means always know you have to be able to learn”

something completely new. You have to be able to ask the question that I've never been asked before.

And this is really very interesting is, if you go back and look at the last few decades, the most successful people were the ones who had all the answers. You know how to do this and you became successful. People who had the answers became successful. In the age of intelligence, it's not the people who have all the right answers. It is the people who are asking all the right questions, right? So to think of this, you know AI, check GPT. It has all the answers. What questions do

you ask? And the questions do you ask changes? What you act of doing? And that's really the question that key becomes is what questions would you ask? What is your perspective of that problem?

“And it can have all the answers. And everyone is like enlightenment, right? When you say,”

I prayed a long time and I got the enlightenment is you actually got the right question that you got the answer to and that God calls enlightenment. We've got to be good at asking the right questions. I also think we need to be good at spotting patterns. So you were just saluting to this too in terms of you'll be less fearful if you know what's going on. If you know the patterns and can anticipate what's going to happen, how can we be better? That's intuition.

Intuition is basically a pattern that you're just like AI, right? I mean, we have our internal AI. That is essentially the two types of computing we have at least in my own way. I look at the things. One is a what I would call a high fidelity computing. That means you get all the data and it finds the pattern and it says, this is black or white, that's our brain, right? So brain is very simple. You give it the data and it says, here is this, right? We are gut has, you know,

lots and lots of neurons in our gut and that works much more on a fuzzy logic. That means it looks at the probability of things happening and you get this gut feeling, right? Women have this

amazing intuition, right? You look at someone on paper, your brain says, oh my God, he's tall,

he's dark, he's handsome, he's charming, he is powerful, everything and then you said, you know something about him, I just don't like it. And then you can put down the piece of paper, you cannot touch, what is that something I don't like, but there's something in your gut. See, oh, wow, come here from it, it's not a good one. And that is that probability of saying, my God, there's some pattern here. I mean, I'd be able to put my finger, but I can sense that there's

something wrong here. That is that intuition that you knew wrongs in your gut, calculating it for you say, it doesn't have black and white that your brain does, but it does the probability of something going wrong is high here. I want to play a game with you, Nirvana. It's called execution traps. Go for it. So I'm going to say an execution traps, something that keeps

“founder stuck. Yeah. And then you tell me the counter intuitive fix. Like why keeps people stuck?”

And what is the counter intuitive fix? Love it. Okay. Number one, waiting for perfect. Uh-huh. So perfection as we know is the enemy of actually entrepreneurship, the substance of entrepreneurship depends on you being embarrassed of the things you launch. That means if it two years from now, you're not embarrassed about what you did two years ago as an entrepreneur, you have you waited way too long. Right. Now, I'm going to ask you, go back to four years when you back, when you started and you

think, oh my God, I look at this stuff and think, how dumb and naive I was. I'm embarrassed of all

got them started. If you waited for perfection, you'll be waiting until today to restart them. Okay. Number two, believing failure exists. Yes. So I think it's not the failure exist. The outcome be exist. Like, and that's one I want people to know. There is no such thing as

“success and failure in an experiment. You have to reframe what that is. And the best way to describe”

that Hala is that you look at Thomas Edison. When people asked him, didn't you fail 10,000 times before you could build the light bulb? And he said, no, I experimented 10,000 times to learn what doesn't work. So I'm able to find something that actually works. But so these are not failure. So these are outcome of an experiment. Number three, taking on too much too soon. Yes. So I think most

entrepreneur die from indigestion rather than from starvation. And that means it's never about doing

two few things. Entrepreneurs die because they do too many things and they spread themselves too thin. And the reason they fail is they always look at every other lawn. It's the grass is greener there. I want to go that. Oh my God, everyone is doing this. I'm going to go do it. Everyone's doing it. I got to go do this. Everyone is going to blast. And I'm going to do that. Everyone is doing NFT. I have to do NFTs. You know what? Focus on what problem you are solving and stay focused on

that problem. We never got distracted by the way. We were doing RNA testing. We saw COVID even before anybody knew it was COVID. We were seeing because we knew RNA virus. And we saw that the COVID-19 and everyone said, my God, you are so well prepared to do COVID testing. And I said, then does not help me get my mission accomplished. I'm here to solve the problem around chronic diseases. It's going to actually take me away from my mission. And I would have wasted two

three years of my life to chasing money. And I could have made some money. But then I would have been

farther away from diagnosing stage one, 10 cardiac cancer farther away from having a two million

test that we have done. I have 400 quadruly and biological data point that allows us to tell

“how to remove diabetes and depression and anxiety and ideas from humanity. What do you have to say”

to the entrepreneurs who are creating a me-to app? At my point is, it's okay to create a me-to app. But you have to know how are you going to own it? So there are two types of entrepreneurship. Someone sees that doing something completely brand new. So it's like saying, hey, this is what they teach you at Harvard Business School, which is completely wrong by the way. Go into a novel market where there is no one there. It better, you know, go out there,

into a new place where there is no other business. So you go to a town and you say, I'm the first

person to sell the mouse trap here. And you never wonder why there is no one else telling

a mouse trap here because there are no mice here. Right. So when you go out there and that's my point. So it's okay to be going to the place and say, oh my god, look at this town, there are 100 people selling mouse traps. I'm going to build a better mouse trap and I'm going to be 101 company. But I'm going to my mouse trap is going to be such a superior mouse trap that I can

“own the whole market. It's okay to be me too. But then you have to say, what is my unique perspective”

of this that will change the whole idea of mouse trapping? Number four, hiring clones of yourself. Oh my god. So this is when you're looking for a friend, you want someone who is just like you. You want to hang out with the guy when you're looking for a friend. When you're an entrepreneur, you want someone who is completely unlike you. Right. Because then you are an entrepreneur who is got a vision who's got a clear idea where you're going. You want someone behind you, who is a

operation person who is building the road while you're cutting the trees. He doesn't have to be a rara guy. He's going to keep driving you nuts and say, why are we going there? Why do you think there is a road there? You say, keep building the road. I know exactly the North Star that I'm going forward to. So you have to find people who are completely meant to you, not people who are like you. Because if you have everyone thinking the same way, then there's no one else to actually

put the balance in your thinking. I totally agree. Okay, last execution trap. Relating to stress as bad. Why would a human body have stress? Stress is what causes us to actually act temporarily the way to do things. Stress is what allows us to be extremely productive, very quick. The chronic stress is what causes us to really become bad. So stress temporarily is the

and you're basically willing to fight of flight. And that's how you survive when the tiger were changing us. But chronic stress is what causes people to lose their perspective, right? So yes, stress is good, but chronic stress is really bad. I feel like a great way to close out this interview is to talk about how you measure success. Something that really stuck for me from your book is that you believe Steve Jobs and Mother Teresa are equally successful. And I thought that's

that's a great story to kind of round everything out and all your beliefs about entrepreneurship.

“Thank you, Hala. So I think your success is never measured by how much money you have in the”

band. It is only measured by how much how many lives we have in food while you're still alive. So measure your success by the number of lives in food, not the number in your bank account. And just

always remember that your self-worth never comes from what's your own. It comes from what you

actually create. So if you haven't created anything, then you still have bad aside on humanity. So don't be a bad aside. Go out and do some crazy, audacious thing that can help a billion people live a better life. And I ask two questions to end on my show. The first one is what is one actionable thing our young and profiteers can do today to become more profitable. I would say two things that improve people's lives. Don't focus on how to make more money.

You will make more money by helping more people live better. So take the focus away from making more profit to making people even better. The more people lives the better because of you,

“they will become your lost customer. You'll make more profit from it. And number one action you”

can always do is do it. Not to talk about it. So if you don't do it, you can keep talking about

it. It's not going to get you anywhere. Yeah, and we talked about all those execution traps that you can fall into and you gave great advice there. And what would you say you're secret to profiting in life? Isn't this can go beyond business, beyond financial? What is your secret to profiting in life? Secret to profiting in life really to be and always remain intellectually curious. And constantly keep learning that day you stop learning is that day you actually die.

Right. So never ever stop learning every single day ask yourself, what have I learned? What did I learn today? Am I better off intellectually today? Am I better off emotionally today than I was yesterday? Am I spiritually better today than I was yesterday? That's constantly keep learning. And then one day you'll find yourself in a place where you say, you know, life has been extremely blessed for me. I mean, I don't think this will be the last time we're on the show.

“So looking forward to many more interviews over the years. Where can everybody learn about you?”

Tell us about your new book? Tell us about where they can get volume and all that. Absolutely. Yeah. So yes, the book is going to be available everywhere coming out in July 7. You can pre-order it right now. You know, from Amazon to Barnes and Noble and your favorite bookstores. You can find me on Instagram. You can find me on LinkedIn. You can always email it to me.

And you can always get [email protected], reads invitter.io and e.com. Amazing. And the book is called

counterintuitive, right? Yes, counterintuitive, unconventional principles for success in life and business. Amazing. I loved reading it. Naveen, thank you so much for joining us on young and profiting podcast. First of all, thank you for hosting me. And I'm looking forward to listening to your podcast time and time again. Young and profitors. I just loved having Naveen back on yet because every conversation stretches the way that we think. Today, Naveen reminded

us that wealth is not the target. Impact is. Lasting entrepreneurs are not waking up asking how much more money can I make. They're asking what problem can I solve. Who can I help and how can I make people's lives better at scale? That's where loyal customers, opportunities and legacy making ideas come from. Money follows service and not the other way around. Naveen also gave us a powerful filter for any big idea. Why this? Why now? Why me? Why this asks whether the

problem matters enough to devote 10 years of your life to it? Why now forces you to look at timing, technology, cost curves, and what has changed that makes this impossible idea newly possible. And why me asks what unique perspective or outsider advantage you bring that insiders may be missing. That's the power of counter-intuitive thinking. It's questioning the obvious seeing it from a different angle, spotting patterns, using imagination and having the courage to move before

everything feels certain. And I just loved Naveen's heartbeat analogy. The ups and downs are not signs that you're doing entrepreneurship wrong. They're the proof that you're alive, building, experimenting, and still in the game. When you're down, the next beat can take you up. When you're up stay humble because the winter always comes. The goal is not a perfectly smooth

that you keep moving through every season. Thank you for spending time with us, yeah fam,

“if this episode made you rethink the problem you're solving or question that you're asking,”

share it with a founder, creator, or high performer who needs this reminder today. And if you

listen, learn and profited, follow the show, leave us a review, and drop a five-star rating wherever

“you listen to the podcast. Subscribe, like, comment on the episode, and tell me what questions”

hit you the hardest. Why this? Why now? Or why me? You can find me on Instagram,

adiab with holla, or LinkedIn by searching holotaha. As always, this is your host,

holotaha, aka the podcast princess signing off.